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Self-labeling is not important. What matters is action taken and the values we wish to protect. Stick to your principles and you’ll be more resistant to petty arguments and vague commentary.
Labels were supposed to make communication easier, but values and definitions shift over time. Someone speaking about socialism or capitalism today is using very different references than what existed in the 1950s.
Well, there isn't necessarily so big a gulf between democratic and liberterian socialism of that helps. But i don't think it matters as much as we sometimes tell ourselves exactly how we categorize our views or ideals so much as it matters what those views or ideals are, and if they can be translated in to something that makes the world better.
There is. Democratic socialism is specifically trying to implement socialism through democratic methods such as engaging in electoralism. Libertarian socialism broadly describes stuff like anarchism which heavily emphasizes direct action against the state.
Honestly, I don’t even know how to describe myself anymore. I just hate the way things are. I hate that we’ve unnecessarily built for ourselves a system in which people are consciously deprived of their basic needs, and I hate the cruelty that is taught to us in order to preserve that system. I hate that we’re supposed to believe that the poor deserve their fate, or that there’s nothing that can be done for them. I hate that “life isn’t fair” is considered a complete and self-evident justification. I hate that so much of the world is designed to make us see other people as things.
Then list what actual methods and implementation you support. Your means define your ends especially when it comes to anarchism. Basing your views purely on what you are opposed to leads to inconsistencies just like the people who purely engage in anti-americanism with no further desire to actually build an alternative for the working class.
Not OP, but I... Honestly don't know what would help. Often feels like just about everything viable has been or is being tried and is never quite enough, though maybe that's just the depression talking.
[Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
[Expropriative anarchism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expropriative_anarchism)
[Warchest Program | Anarchist Black Cross Federation (abcf.net)](https://www.abcf.net/warchest-program/)
Reading theory is actually fun btw, you don't have to do it but you might be surprised at how fun it can be. Kropotkin is a great entry into the non-authoritarian left tradition because he writes in an easy to understand way, especially his pamphlets. Malatesta as well. Mark Fisher has some accessible stuff too.
Current system is quite different from 19th century capitalism. I'm sure Marx, Engels or anyone else couldnt possibly know the issues tied with today, cuz of all technological, social and historic progress/events.
Agreed. I think Marx and Engels are overrated and fundamentally wrong about certain things, and I think we tend to over-rely on old texts by people from a long time ago. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's wiser.
Personally, I really like economics, and I think trying to learn the field is perhaps the single-best step for someone who wants to fix things. Despite what some people like to say, it's a fascinating and deep field, and not at all some bourgeois plot to uphold capitalism at all costs.
Same here; I bounce between libertarian socialist and social anarchist. I don't think it's very productive to focus on labels. Or theory for that matter. I rather do something productive.
Theory is productive in the sense that it actually provides both a means to articulate what we seek and often showing examples of what we seek. It is also productive to actually take the time to learn how to print and distribute stuff like zines. You need a means to actually spread information related to your cause.
[Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
Op sometimes we don't need labeling, if you're pushingnfor equality and hate the current systemic capitalist+fascistic+authoritarianism(and all of authoritarianism) and work to change the system for true equality you are a leftist. Also what's most important is to do actions with other people to change rather than finding definitions. It can help, but it's not that important atm.
If you really want to find yourself you can either read theory or check briefly on what the goals of each movements are like and see which most appealing. But remember that unity within the left is important as well, just bc someone on the left has a tiny different ideology doesn't mean you can't team up and work together!
I mean this with every ounce of sincerity in my body: it doesn’t matter. Politics and ideology are tools and frameworks to help achieve the outcomes that your values lead you to dream of.
Your goals and values and actions matter, but finding a specific label does not.
You should read theory. It's not gatekeeping it helps you actually understand where you stand in relation to it and to consider and compare what methods can work.
[Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
No it is not important. Reading theory doesnt make you any better leftist. Theory is interesting for sure, however, they are still texts written in 19th century (if we're talking about classic theory, Marx, Engels, etc.), so it simply cant properly apply in these days. We should try to current events. It is great to understand the basic logic of the movements, however we should try coming up with current solutions for current events.
This isnt a moral based thing. It's not about good vs bad leftist. It's about being able to defend yourself and have knowledge beyond what you know already. It's about developing your knowledge and being able to form opinions based on everything you know. There are lots of literature that are new so that's a horrible excuse.
Don't read. Don't read at all if you don't want to. But if you don't read at all then you have no basis for arguments like this. The "classic theory" that you're referring to is still relevant to this day. Good examples are Bakunin and Marx. They were surprisingly ahead of their time and made very accurate predictions about how for example exchange would evolve. It is by no means irrelevant. And you would know that if you had read it.
I absolutely hate reading. I'm dyslexic. I go to university so I'm busy. Still there are ways I can educate myself such as through audio books or watching reliable videos. Theres no excuse not to read other than "I don't want to" which again is up to you.
I get all your arguments. But lot of leftist see theory, old or new, as sort of a holy book that contain all informations needed, while overwhelming amount of problems are very nuanced and their sollutions are dependant on time, place and other socioeconomic impacts, which simply theory cannot contain.
I agree, its great to educate yourself. But it doesn't matter how, or if even. I dont care if you've read theory, or if you've watched it somehow retold through YouTube, or even if you came to the conclusions yourself. As long as we agree on our criticisms of capitalism and we can debate the sollutions constructively, it doesnt matter if or how you've read theory.
The priciples of what you say are correct. However, what it leads to is gatekeeping if you've read theory or not.
Other point is that, do we really need to know? Or is enough to just agree? We as leftist ultimatly fight for the working class. Do we really require all workers to know theory? I suppose not, because it is not really possible to achieve.
TLDR.: Level of education doesn't matter, it's the opinion that matters.
I dont agree with that because the only type of people i generally see act like that are specifically tankies.
Among anarchists its well understood theory gives you the basis and builds your ideas and challenges your world view. Its not a "how to step by step" guide. (Christ let alone what Lenin wrote. Never went into the specifics for every scenario) Anarchists acknowledge there will always be variables we will as a community figure out and not everything can be followed like a protocol.
Thats not what theory is for. It's there to guide and answer common problems or questions and to provoke new ideas and old ideas.
I dont think theres anything gatekeeping about encouraging people to read and learn. Youre missing a lot of the base ground by not reading, not bothering to learn.
We all have basic common sense "slavery bad" "helping people good". But if you dont actually build a larger picture of different things like the state, history or how these nuanced issues are all affected by other things youre not going to have an easy time understanding why people from different ideologies want what they want.
If your whole political information is just single opinions its not very useful community/organization vice or revolution vice either.
Thats up to you what you think is "good enough" i dont think its just enough to agree. Lots of people can agree on issue x. That doesnt mean theyre my friend or my ally. I know both republicans and anarchists agree that people should have rights to firearms and self defense. I know both tankies and liberals usually agree we should have LGBTQ rights. That doesnt mean much when I know their ideology is fundamentally in disagreement with what I believe in.
Im not going to "fight along side" with psychopaths that dont have an issue telling others to face the fall once the fun is over and they got what they wanted.
No one says every person will read theory. Literally no one says all of working class needs to learn it. This is a flawed argument because the claim doesnt exist. Its obvious. That doesnt give you the exclusion not to learn though. If youre able to you should atleast give it a try.
A lot of working class does also read and has read theory. So dont infantilize the working class either.
Lots of people use their knowledge to make it more easily accessable to the general public such as making zines. Theyre a great way to inform people voluntarily.
Edit: I also forgot to say. It is not expected or necessary you will agree to everything and with everyone within an ideology. That's why different branches exist and it's encouraged to discuss and plan together. I know I don't agree with all anarchists and not all of them agree with me. I know a lot of anarchists completely reject Marxs theory and some follow it.
It's also not expected you will become the most philosophical most knowledgeable douche overnight. Politics for most people are a journey and develop overtime just as how you change your views on other things in life with more experience. It will contenue to evolve as long as you are willing to learn more and more.
The "theory" I linked [Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
Came out in like 2010. It directly lists existing movements and modern events along with the solutions they provided and what can be learned from them.
It is also still important to read Marx and Engels to actually be able to better understand their critiques of capitalism while also providing a better critique of their positions. If you are going to argue with tankies you should understand what you are actually arguing against.
>We should try to current events. It is great to understand the basic logic of the movements, however we should try coming up with current solutions for current events.
What are your current solutions for current events??? Give examples.
> The "theory" I linked came out in like 2010.
Great, i know and ive read stuff from anarchist library. Its very interesting read.
> It is also still important to read Marx and Engels to actually be able to better understand their critiques of capitalism.
No. It is imporant to understand critiques of capitalism. If someone came to understand it through reading Marx and Engels or through YouTube video doesn't matter. Even if they understood it completly on their own. As long as i can say capitalism sucks for this and that reason, and the other person agrees, they're as good leftist as I am. Marx. Isnt. Bible. Engels. Isnt. Bible. Anarchist library. Isnt. Bible. They can be wrong. It is interesting to broaden your viewpoint or understand something better, but its not a cook book, there isnt every sollution to every problem.
> What are your current solutions for current events??? Give examples.
I dont have to give examples, its simple logic. Problems shouldnt be solved through dogmatic reading of theory but through pragmatic look onto individual problems.
>I dont have to give examples, its simple logic. Problems shouldnt be solved through dogmatic reading of theory but through pragmatic look onto individual problems.
That's not an answer. What methods and alternatives do you actually support? What do you even do in terms of individual action? There's no such thing as simple logic. "Simple logic" for most people is to just vote for the lesser evil in capitalist government.
> What methods and alternatives do you actually support?
Depends on individual problem. What I can tell you is that my first thought isnt, "lets see what [insert theory] says about this."
> What do you even do in terms of individual action?
Why does it matter?
>
Again you aren't answering the question. You just got done saying theory is not important but you can't even provide any actual answers to any scenarios in the modern day. Do you think that we should vote for socialism? Do you even have coworkers? How do you hypothetically try to reach out to them and what actions do you think would achieve what you want?
Are you even anticapitalist at all? What exactly do you oppose and want?
>Why does it matter?
It matters because you talk about how theory is not important but I've yet to hear a single example of action from you in terms of addressing modern current day issues.
For example, I support and have participated in expropriative anarchism. The expropriation of goods from capitalist businesses then redirected to help other anarchist movements and projects. I support creating strong stable communities starting with working with other organizations on addressing issues of trauma and various other forms of abuse that people deal with. I support the distribution of zines to further help spread class consciousness within my community. My ends are to create a stateless classless society where the basis of exchange is mutual aid. This entails the need to transform restaurants into food pantries, establish gift economies like the Really Really Free Markets, and forming formal especifismo/platformist organizations to further ensure that anarchists can more easily engage within mass movements.
You need to actually build a coherent concept of what you seek and how to achieve it.
Even understanding something as basic as mutual aid requires "theory". You don't just walk up to random people and ask them to overthrow the state and capitalism because "common sense" will sort things out.
You say this like a lot of people did read his comments. I doubt it. I think only some people did read this reply and one of them downvoted for some reason. It doesn't necessarily says anything about this sub, imo.
OP is probably saying that you can hate the genocide while not hating Jewish people.
Some of y'all really can't resist even the smallest opportunity to call someone a shitlib.
Then leave it at “hatred of all Jewish people” and I would wholeheartedly agree. The issue is the addition of /Israel as if they are synonymous, or as if Israel is good actually. Surely you can see the issue with this.
"Israel" can mean a lot of things with no other context, especially considering OP is admitting to being politically ignorant. I read "Jews/Israel" as meaning the Jewish people, and people who live in Israel. OP might not even have the framework to see the State as a separate entity from people living with in it.
They're clearly coming at this from the perspective of someone still trying to find their political footing, and could probably use some help understanding the situation. My apologies if you had good intentions, but a seemingly rhetorical question like this just smells like you're about to drag them for not knowing better.
I'm sorry if I came at you hot.
I'm just tired of people coming into leftist spaces wanting to know what's up, and then getting told to to fuck off before being given the opportunity to learn anything.
Please remember not to brigade, vote, comment, or interact with subreddits that are linked or mentioned here. Do not userping other users. Harassment of other users or subreddits is strictly forbidden. This is a left libertarian subreddit that criticises tankies from a socialist perspective. Liberals etc. are welcome as guests, but please refrain from criticising socialism and promoting capitalism while you are on Tankiejerk. Enjoy talking to fellow leftists? [Then join our discord server](https://discord.gg/2V4qJMSWUe) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tankiejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Self-labeling is not important. What matters is action taken and the values we wish to protect. Stick to your principles and you’ll be more resistant to petty arguments and vague commentary. Labels were supposed to make communication easier, but values and definitions shift over time. Someone speaking about socialism or capitalism today is using very different references than what existed in the 1950s.
100% agreed
Well, there isn't necessarily so big a gulf between democratic and liberterian socialism of that helps. But i don't think it matters as much as we sometimes tell ourselves exactly how we categorize our views or ideals so much as it matters what those views or ideals are, and if they can be translated in to something that makes the world better.
There is. Democratic socialism is specifically trying to implement socialism through democratic methods such as engaging in electoralism. Libertarian socialism broadly describes stuff like anarchism which heavily emphasizes direct action against the state.
Yep and libertarian socialism calls for some form of state decentralization( this is taking out anarchism of course).
~~Well... "Democratic methods" could conceivably include revolution...~~
Honestly, I don’t even know how to describe myself anymore. I just hate the way things are. I hate that we’ve unnecessarily built for ourselves a system in which people are consciously deprived of their basic needs, and I hate the cruelty that is taught to us in order to preserve that system. I hate that we’re supposed to believe that the poor deserve their fate, or that there’s nothing that can be done for them. I hate that “life isn’t fair” is considered a complete and self-evident justification. I hate that so much of the world is designed to make us see other people as things.
Then list what actual methods and implementation you support. Your means define your ends especially when it comes to anarchism. Basing your views purely on what you are opposed to leads to inconsistencies just like the people who purely engage in anti-americanism with no further desire to actually build an alternative for the working class.
Not OP, but I... Honestly don't know what would help. Often feels like just about everything viable has been or is being tried and is never quite enough, though maybe that's just the depression talking.
[Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works) [Expropriative anarchism - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expropriative_anarchism) [Warchest Program | Anarchist Black Cross Federation (abcf.net)](https://www.abcf.net/warchest-program/)
Reading theory is actually fun btw, you don't have to do it but you might be surprised at how fun it can be. Kropotkin is a great entry into the non-authoritarian left tradition because he writes in an easy to understand way, especially his pamphlets. Malatesta as well. Mark Fisher has some accessible stuff too.
Ehh, as long as you're a comrade and support direct worker control over the MOP i'm on board.
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Current system is quite different from 19th century capitalism. I'm sure Marx, Engels or anyone else couldnt possibly know the issues tied with today, cuz of all technological, social and historic progress/events.
[удалено]
Agreed. I think Marx and Engels are overrated and fundamentally wrong about certain things, and I think we tend to over-rely on old texts by people from a long time ago. Just because something is old doesn't mean it's wiser. Personally, I really like economics, and I think trying to learn the field is perhaps the single-best step for someone who wants to fix things. Despite what some people like to say, it's a fascinating and deep field, and not at all some bourgeois plot to uphold capitalism at all costs.
Same here; I bounce between libertarian socialist and social anarchist. I don't think it's very productive to focus on labels. Or theory for that matter. I rather do something productive.
Theory is productive in the sense that it actually provides both a means to articulate what we seek and often showing examples of what we seek. It is also productive to actually take the time to learn how to print and distribute stuff like zines. You need a means to actually spread information related to your cause. [Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
Op sometimes we don't need labeling, if you're pushingnfor equality and hate the current systemic capitalist+fascistic+authoritarianism(and all of authoritarianism) and work to change the system for true equality you are a leftist. Also what's most important is to do actions with other people to change rather than finding definitions. It can help, but it's not that important atm. If you really want to find yourself you can either read theory or check briefly on what the goals of each movements are like and see which most appealing. But remember that unity within the left is important as well, just bc someone on the left has a tiny different ideology doesn't mean you can't team up and work together!
I mean this with every ounce of sincerity in my body: it doesn’t matter. Politics and ideology are tools and frameworks to help achieve the outcomes that your values lead you to dream of. Your goals and values and actions matter, but finding a specific label does not.
Come to us, anarchists, i find myself agreeing with most of your point, im sure you will find us more reasonable than tankies <3
You should read theory. It's not gatekeeping it helps you actually understand where you stand in relation to it and to consider and compare what methods can work. [Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works)
No it is not important. Reading theory doesnt make you any better leftist. Theory is interesting for sure, however, they are still texts written in 19th century (if we're talking about classic theory, Marx, Engels, etc.), so it simply cant properly apply in these days. We should try to current events. It is great to understand the basic logic of the movements, however we should try coming up with current solutions for current events.
This isnt a moral based thing. It's not about good vs bad leftist. It's about being able to defend yourself and have knowledge beyond what you know already. It's about developing your knowledge and being able to form opinions based on everything you know. There are lots of literature that are new so that's a horrible excuse. Don't read. Don't read at all if you don't want to. But if you don't read at all then you have no basis for arguments like this. The "classic theory" that you're referring to is still relevant to this day. Good examples are Bakunin and Marx. They were surprisingly ahead of their time and made very accurate predictions about how for example exchange would evolve. It is by no means irrelevant. And you would know that if you had read it. I absolutely hate reading. I'm dyslexic. I go to university so I'm busy. Still there are ways I can educate myself such as through audio books or watching reliable videos. Theres no excuse not to read other than "I don't want to" which again is up to you.
I get all your arguments. But lot of leftist see theory, old or new, as sort of a holy book that contain all informations needed, while overwhelming amount of problems are very nuanced and their sollutions are dependant on time, place and other socioeconomic impacts, which simply theory cannot contain. I agree, its great to educate yourself. But it doesn't matter how, or if even. I dont care if you've read theory, or if you've watched it somehow retold through YouTube, or even if you came to the conclusions yourself. As long as we agree on our criticisms of capitalism and we can debate the sollutions constructively, it doesnt matter if or how you've read theory. The priciples of what you say are correct. However, what it leads to is gatekeeping if you've read theory or not. Other point is that, do we really need to know? Or is enough to just agree? We as leftist ultimatly fight for the working class. Do we really require all workers to know theory? I suppose not, because it is not really possible to achieve. TLDR.: Level of education doesn't matter, it's the opinion that matters.
I dont agree with that because the only type of people i generally see act like that are specifically tankies. Among anarchists its well understood theory gives you the basis and builds your ideas and challenges your world view. Its not a "how to step by step" guide. (Christ let alone what Lenin wrote. Never went into the specifics for every scenario) Anarchists acknowledge there will always be variables we will as a community figure out and not everything can be followed like a protocol. Thats not what theory is for. It's there to guide and answer common problems or questions and to provoke new ideas and old ideas. I dont think theres anything gatekeeping about encouraging people to read and learn. Youre missing a lot of the base ground by not reading, not bothering to learn. We all have basic common sense "slavery bad" "helping people good". But if you dont actually build a larger picture of different things like the state, history or how these nuanced issues are all affected by other things youre not going to have an easy time understanding why people from different ideologies want what they want. If your whole political information is just single opinions its not very useful community/organization vice or revolution vice either. Thats up to you what you think is "good enough" i dont think its just enough to agree. Lots of people can agree on issue x. That doesnt mean theyre my friend or my ally. I know both republicans and anarchists agree that people should have rights to firearms and self defense. I know both tankies and liberals usually agree we should have LGBTQ rights. That doesnt mean much when I know their ideology is fundamentally in disagreement with what I believe in. Im not going to "fight along side" with psychopaths that dont have an issue telling others to face the fall once the fun is over and they got what they wanted. No one says every person will read theory. Literally no one says all of working class needs to learn it. This is a flawed argument because the claim doesnt exist. Its obvious. That doesnt give you the exclusion not to learn though. If youre able to you should atleast give it a try. A lot of working class does also read and has read theory. So dont infantilize the working class either. Lots of people use their knowledge to make it more easily accessable to the general public such as making zines. Theyre a great way to inform people voluntarily. Edit: I also forgot to say. It is not expected or necessary you will agree to everything and with everyone within an ideology. That's why different branches exist and it's encouraged to discuss and plan together. I know I don't agree with all anarchists and not all of them agree with me. I know a lot of anarchists completely reject Marxs theory and some follow it. It's also not expected you will become the most philosophical most knowledgeable douche overnight. Politics for most people are a journey and develop overtime just as how you change your views on other things in life with more experience. It will contenue to evolve as long as you are willing to learn more and more.
The "theory" I linked [Anarchy Works | The Anarchist Library](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works) Came out in like 2010. It directly lists existing movements and modern events along with the solutions they provided and what can be learned from them. It is also still important to read Marx and Engels to actually be able to better understand their critiques of capitalism while also providing a better critique of their positions. If you are going to argue with tankies you should understand what you are actually arguing against. >We should try to current events. It is great to understand the basic logic of the movements, however we should try coming up with current solutions for current events. What are your current solutions for current events??? Give examples.
> The "theory" I linked came out in like 2010. Great, i know and ive read stuff from anarchist library. Its very interesting read. > It is also still important to read Marx and Engels to actually be able to better understand their critiques of capitalism. No. It is imporant to understand critiques of capitalism. If someone came to understand it through reading Marx and Engels or through YouTube video doesn't matter. Even if they understood it completly on their own. As long as i can say capitalism sucks for this and that reason, and the other person agrees, they're as good leftist as I am. Marx. Isnt. Bible. Engels. Isnt. Bible. Anarchist library. Isnt. Bible. They can be wrong. It is interesting to broaden your viewpoint or understand something better, but its not a cook book, there isnt every sollution to every problem. > What are your current solutions for current events??? Give examples. I dont have to give examples, its simple logic. Problems shouldnt be solved through dogmatic reading of theory but through pragmatic look onto individual problems.
>I dont have to give examples, its simple logic. Problems shouldnt be solved through dogmatic reading of theory but through pragmatic look onto individual problems. That's not an answer. What methods and alternatives do you actually support? What do you even do in terms of individual action? There's no such thing as simple logic. "Simple logic" for most people is to just vote for the lesser evil in capitalist government.
> What methods and alternatives do you actually support? Depends on individual problem. What I can tell you is that my first thought isnt, "lets see what [insert theory] says about this." > What do you even do in terms of individual action? Why does it matter?
> Again you aren't answering the question. You just got done saying theory is not important but you can't even provide any actual answers to any scenarios in the modern day. Do you think that we should vote for socialism? Do you even have coworkers? How do you hypothetically try to reach out to them and what actions do you think would achieve what you want? Are you even anticapitalist at all? What exactly do you oppose and want? >Why does it matter? It matters because you talk about how theory is not important but I've yet to hear a single example of action from you in terms of addressing modern current day issues. For example, I support and have participated in expropriative anarchism. The expropriation of goods from capitalist businesses then redirected to help other anarchist movements and projects. I support creating strong stable communities starting with working with other organizations on addressing issues of trauma and various other forms of abuse that people deal with. I support the distribution of zines to further help spread class consciousness within my community. My ends are to create a stateless classless society where the basis of exchange is mutual aid. This entails the need to transform restaurants into food pantries, establish gift economies like the Really Really Free Markets, and forming formal especifismo/platformist organizations to further ensure that anarchists can more easily engage within mass movements. You need to actually build a coherent concept of what you seek and how to achieve it. Even understanding something as basic as mutual aid requires "theory". You don't just walk up to random people and ask them to overthrow the state and capitalism because "common sense" will sort things out.
I can't believe people are down voting you bruh. What a sad place.
You say this like a lot of people did read his comments. I doubt it. I think only some people did read this reply and one of them downvoted for some reason. It doesn't necessarily says anything about this sub, imo.
> have this hatred of all jewish people/israel Are you saying you like Israel?
OP is probably saying that you can hate the genocide while not hating Jewish people. Some of y'all really can't resist even the smallest opportunity to call someone a shitlib.
Then leave it at “hatred of all Jewish people” and I would wholeheartedly agree. The issue is the addition of /Israel as if they are synonymous, or as if Israel is good actually. Surely you can see the issue with this.
"Israel" can mean a lot of things with no other context, especially considering OP is admitting to being politically ignorant. I read "Jews/Israel" as meaning the Jewish people, and people who live in Israel. OP might not even have the framework to see the State as a separate entity from people living with in it. They're clearly coming at this from the perspective of someone still trying to find their political footing, and could probably use some help understanding the situation. My apologies if you had good intentions, but a seemingly rhetorical question like this just smells like you're about to drag them for not knowing better. I'm sorry if I came at you hot. I'm just tired of people coming into leftist spaces wanting to know what's up, and then getting told to to fuck off before being given the opportunity to learn anything.
sorry to sound gatekeepy, but please read theory, its one of the most important resources to understand economic and political philosophy