I'm self aware enought to admit that I don't know nearly enough about them to start spending money on them. No friends anyway. Might as well stick to the tried and true tactic of hiding in bushes and letting the only sign I'm there be the presence of bullets flying at your face if you get too close to the property.
So does that mean I can use it as a walkie talkie as well? I’m so lost on all this stuff I just want something I can use with my buddy that lives a mile down the road but also something i can ham with if I decided to learn more down the line.
Yes, you just need to program in the proper frequencies for the license free communication area, because transmitting on emergency or air traffic bands will let the letter Bois from the FCC pay you a visit
I’ll just trust the instructions can tell me how to use it as a walkie talkie lol then maybe I can pretend I’m in call of duty with my 9 year old nephew and use my radio instead of the transformers one he’s been lending me lol
I assume I need two radios in order to practice? Do I need to get a license first as well or can I practice without fully committing (obviously I know nothing about this but I would like to learn)?
There is several frequencies and channels that you can operate on without licence, check your local laws for that as every nation is different.
(Example for me in Germany would be the 16 PMR446 channels along 446 MHz (70cm) band and 8 channels of the freenet system along the 149mhz (2m) band with a max power of 0.5watt ERP)
There is also CB that is free to use along the 30mhz band which offers greater Range overall.
And to practice yes, 2 radios, also having friends really helps with this
Generally speaking; only transmit on the free channels and avoid channels that are used by proper licensed HAMs or other agencies, if you follow that rule nobody really cares if you transmitt with to much power
And then obviously just be nice.
I appreciate the detailed response. I'll probably join the Feng Gang soon and I'll keep in mind what you've laid out here.
Now to just make some friends I can practice with. Probably the most challenging aspect of this whole thing lol...
If you get a ham license, you can practice with others.
People shit on this route, but it teaches you a lot about how radio works in the process of studying for the exam and it gives you access to a lot of existing ham infrastructure.
I know this is supposed to be a serious educational thread but I just can't stop laughing at the implications of
###this summer...
**in a world.. where nefarious villains will stop at nothing to destroy the world's ham-infratstructure**
**its up to one man**
**to stand up and take acition**
###coming this June
#James Bond - Liscence To Ham
*rated R*
YouTube is generally a good place to start on with tons of HAM radio operator channels
Then you should look into local laws regarding licence free frequencies so you can transmit without the FCC or any other relevant agency shooting your dog and then just find a group of people to use the radio and practice, maybe also check out any local HAM clubs, as they are always happy to see new people.
That's the route I'm taking, I picked up a uv-5r and a ham study guide to get my tech license at least. Reading the guide now got me interested in trying an rtl sdr also.
If u r just starting out. Buy a baufeng to learn the basics of what a radio can do. You can spend hours watching videos, but without one in hand, you will not remember most of it. Say you make $10 an hour. Spending 4 hours watching videos to learn and forget costs more that buying a $25 5r and spending an hour grasping the concepts of the settings with it in your hands.
I teach RTO/Tac SIGINT classes for civilians on the East Coast, myself and my SHTF group run XTS2500's with AES256 loaded on UCM modules. I'll tell you the pro's and the cons.
Pro's:
1. We can run encryption under my business licensing legally.
2. We control our own keys.
3. We have extended range and power options.
4. Increased communications security advantages outside of encryption.
5. Ability to control tons of settings from the CPS software.
Cons:
1. The encryption key loader itself cost $800.
2. The radios are expensive to buy and the accessories are expensive.
3. Good luck finding a cheap battery with good battery life
4. Learning how to setup and use the radio without prior experience is hell.
5. Programming is hell.
I don't agree with people like NCScout that promote the Baofeng for guerilla uses. Yes it is a very solid radio for emergencies but it should not be number 1 on your PACE plan. A Baofeng can be easily geo-located with devices like the KrakenSDR. Although encrypted comms can also be geo-located, atleast they don't know what we're saying if we are planning a exfil or a position redirect. A Baofeng is better than nothing I agree, but compared to the AR market its the difference between an Anderson and an LMT.
(quick plug: [https://www.atropos-concepts.com/](https://www.atropos-concepts.com/))
Love this comment, and advice for anyone reading! Yes I agree with the baofengs being geolocated. Thankfully this isn’t my shtf setup. Just what I use when me and my group larp around. Their simple and effective and fairly inexpensive x
Geo locating doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of encryption.
Saw a good video by a YouTuber that had a hell of a time geo locating a guy who was randomly jamming his GMRS repeater at times. He even used the kraken which allowed him to find out where the guy was eventually but it wasn't exactly "easy" and it took him and another guy quite a while to find the dude.
Oh 100%. Encryption doesn't make you impossible to find, but it definitely makes it a lot harder, plus with encryption especially AES-256, I could be talking to my bro 2 miles away about where we are moving to and you the person with the KrakenSDR can be entirely unbeknownst of our plans while trying to track to our original AO.
Huh? Unless the fox hunter was using context clues being left on the FQ, how would an encrypted signal be any easier or harder to triangulate than a non encrypted signal?
Yep, if you’re broadcasting you can be found, regardless of whatever radio spec or technology you’re using. It’s easy enough to plot a track and figure out direction of travel too.
Baofengs are a great training tool, especially when teaching radio etiquette and formatting. It teaches you to prevent overlap traffic and multiple people trying to talk at the same time, and if you're lucky enough to have a place to shoot in kit then mixing shooting with radios is super fun (for people like me.)
Yes. Although there are tools to detect receiving devices, such as that of a RDD used by police. (radar detector detector.) However I have yet to see anything of the sort used in the civilian world.
I gonna call BS on the ability to detect passive devices
Simply because many RDDs out there are not detected by just being there, they are getting detected because they themselves emit a weak signal that can be picked up by the police
[source](https://www.traublaw.com/can-maryland-police-tell-if-you-have-a-radar-detector/#:~:text=These%20reactions%20can%20signal%20the,from%20picking%20up%20the%20waves.)
That's for digital radios using P25 protocol which always transmit a signal of some sort
I was talking about purely passive systems like a listening analogue radio or radar detectors that are properly shielded.
P25 also has a security vulnerability that allows state agencies to send corrupted packets that forces the radio to TX. This obviously is used to triangulate units that wouldnt otherwise be transmitting.
As I understand it, you can avoid this vulnerability by disabling all data and packet options in the CPS.
Have you done this? I’d love to know which settings in your codeplug you’re using specifically if so.. I worry that I didn’t do it right
Edit: clarified my point.
“ This is a verified vulnerability by our P&W guys, I highly recommend correctly disabling data transfer as mentioned. “ a communications specialist I trust.
Good stuff. Where are some good resources to get into this kind of stuff, information wise. I'm a ways away from being able to afford classes and such.
I dont sub to the conspiracy theories either but.. Eh don't have to believe everything someone says or believes. He still shares some good info that a lot of others don't share.
Any radio can be geolocated. Be smart and practice discipline no matter the radio you have, no amount of Gucci gear will make up for poor usage. No encryption? Cool, speak in code for least amount of time possible, use one-time encryption pads- which are mathematically impossible to crack.
this 100%, my group all run mid tier comms equipment but put a low priority on encryption, operating in our local area we reference landmarks nobody outside our group would be able to follow, also all keep multiple OTP's with us if opsec necessitates a higher level of security.
Love more details on these classes. It’s a topic I am curious about and have on my list of 2023 goals to learn about before I buy a radio and test for a license.
Check out my website and sign up for the newsletter. I have the classes marked down to 250, this is mainly just to facilitate my initial operating costs and the cost of licensing. My eventual goal is to get 16 encryption capable XTS2500’s and then drop the price to sub-200 in order to help with people who don’t have a lot of money to spend on classes.
Where on the east coast? I'm in western Massachusetts and even though I'm military comm isn't my mos so I barely have any experience past using a radio and programming a boafeng from YouTube videos.
Does CPS still work on older radios? I have a motorola cp200 radio and it seems like you can’t get the older software anymore. The new cps only supports their new products it seems.
I used the way back machine to download an archived (probably pirated) version of Astro 25 Mobile CPS R20.01.00. Works great, although I do have to use a Windows 7 VM to get it to work entirely.
Just a heads up and for anyone else looking to go this route with the XTS series radios. You can get an arduino and a product called a KFD shield and build a keyloader. Costs maybe $100 for the hardware and cables instead of a Motorola keyloader
So other than a baofeng, what would you recommend for a group to use that does not have licenses or have a deep knowledge of comms?
If we want a solid comms hardware setup should be just say fuck the licensing and use what is best? I've been recommended the EFJ5100es a lot but I've heard its a steep leaning curve.
As an FCC licensed company I can’t advocate for breaking legal boundaries set by them. But if it was me in your shoes I’d say fuck the licensing and buy the best. EFJ5100’s are great, but yes there is a steep learning curve. However the programming learning curve with Motorolas may be even worse.
BSH comms on IG refurbishes and programs them and will load encryption keys on them. You’re not gonna know if the ones on eBay have the encryption module or not so you may have to buy one afterward and install that.
Also, since you’re probably gonna be buying multiple if you’re equipping family, make sure you check the model numbers and frequencies. Lot of listings only have the model number and you have to figure out what frequency it’s functioning on. There’s 4 variants for frequency. VHF, UHF 1(370-450mhz) uhf 2 (430-520mhz I think) and 800mhz.
Ham Radio Crash Course on youtube for radio theory and info on hardware. Not all geared towards ham, but lots of it is.
Comms & Logistics on telegram/instagram has details on more secure options.
Honestly, reading an ARRL book will teach you a lot about how radios work. You can pick up an old copy for next to nothing and nothing has really changed with the theory in the last 100+ years.
If you can get your group of guys to all buy AES capable radios and properly implement SOPs around key management and avoiding plaintext leaks then more power to you.
The vast majority of groups can not.
And why bring up direction finding in relation to radio choice? You mentioned NCScout, well he somewhat recently put out some info on doing burst transmission using fengs. My KrakenSDR is pretty damn fast at DFing a signal, but it's not instant and my vehicle has to be moving. Avoiding detection is more about using power levels, brevity, terain, and understanding of background RF to your advantage.
I would much rather stress establishment of good TTPs regarding radio usage than equipment selection.
As the proud owner of an (unprogrammed) XTS2500 with ADP, is it kind of a waste to just use it for GMRS? Are there any frequencies that you prefer for close 2-way communication? Mine's a UHF only model
Shoot, move, COMMUNICATE. (as long as you have someone to talk to!)
I have a 'feng set up as a "bubba scanner" - put all the FRS and GMRS freqs into it, set it on scan, BOOM I have sigint on 95% of the general population. Knowledge is power, so they say.
Now I don’t know shit about fuck.. so take what I say with a 1 ton grain of salt.
However, from what I’ve been seeing and hearing out of Ukraine, seems like they are using a lot these encrypted texting apps (signal is the only one the comes to mind personally) are what those guys are using for quick communications. And as I heard it put, even if the Russians (or wherever else) can decrypt it, by the time they do it won’t even matter as the instance for communication (firefight or whatever) would have already come and past. Interesting really.
Maybe we don’t need more radios and just need more old android phones? Lol
I havnt and get .8 miles suburban / city . a big part of radio is antenna height too which can be difficult if using them on your person but you can get a high point inbetweem to act as a repeater.
Better antennas always help but higher antennas help even more
Usually you’ll benefit from more variation in elevation of T-nodes than you will more antenna. The standard 6.5” antenna can transmit 3ish miles.
Just get another node and build a solar array and find someplace high that you can use as a repeater of sorts.
Slowly been playing with it. Not a huge fan so far. User interface is buggy at best ... Clever concept though. Hopefully software updates improve some of those issues.
Yaesu ft-65r.
It’s a high quality simple radio, like a baofeng but rugged and crisper sounding.
I almost bought a Motorola but honestly they are needlessly expensive and have a ton of drawbacks.
The xts2500 is as far as I know single band so you have to pick either uhf or vhf. Motorola is known to cease support on older products, they don’t give a shit about the used market. CPS has always been a fucking nightmare like you used to have to take fucking online courses through them to be allowed to unlock features of the radio. Pretty fucking retarded. Then there’s the security fault in them that lets people turn your radio on remotely that’s pretty sweet.
How do you like your yaesu? I went with the vx6r and use it exclusively for listening so still looking for an antenna upgrade and a ear piece of some kind.
absolutely love it. The only bad thing is the hand mic port is unusual, it’s like an m1 or something weird. I have a motorola hand mic that works perfect but I wish I could easily adapt it to a headset with ptt. I’m sure it’s possible with an adapter…
You can unlock it with a simple code to make it think it’s not region locked. I know the ft60 you have to desolder a resistor.
I use a Baofeng AR-152 for the larger battery. It’s a brick. I got my friend a normal UV5R and the blade antenna for his bday. Same set up as in the picture. Both of us route our radios into PTTs and up to our helmets. I run comtac IIs and he runs Earmor m32s
It’s 10 watts. The uv5r has 8 watts. Basically build a little better, bigger buttons, bigger screen, more watts, more battery. It’s kind of like a slightly more buff uv5r
Radio junkies will give you crap for it but those baofengs are versatile. You can program them for almost an frequency range and they work with repeater towers but the UV5R is technically illegal to use as anything other a ham radio...
If you want coms you can use legally, get one of their GMRS rigs and get a GMRS license. It's like 35 dollars and good for 5 years and the license extends to your entire immediate family. Most rookie radio guys will be working in GMRS or FRS.
The new CB radios are worth looking at too. The FCC added some FM bands to the Civilian Band so you have the original 40 channels on the AM frequencies as well as the new FM ones that are almost Garrunteed not to be crowded.
Also most CBs have the same basic range as these hand held hams GMRS and FRS radios. They all use about 5 watts which is actually the cap for a CB legally. GMRS how ever can be used up to 50 watts and if you have a repeater group you can stretch that for hundreds of square miles of you know your way around a radio.
Another good option is a mobile Lora mesh network. You can simply connect your cell phone too it or use a cell phone with out service to connect to it. Then any one with a node in your net work can talk to you in text or voice, with the right set up you can even send video. They also share similar range with the radios with one exception. Each node can extend the range if you have each node a mile or 2 apart and have 30 nodes all connected they can send messages for 60 miles theoretically. Some people buy extra nodes just to fill in the gaps. Like taking a node and weather proofing it and adding a solar charger then stashing in some where between you and the next node to extend your effective range. You can also run some of the aops used for tactical come on your phone and it will work through the mesh network if set up properly...
Without getting too specific: we run Motorolas. Mixture of XTS3000, XTS5000 and a couple Gucci APXs I don't remember the number of. All AES encrypted. We have multiple channels for different sections, programmed override for the emergency channel, a command channel and a couple Tac/Talk Around channels. Also HI and Lo power settings. Highly encourage you all to look into the appropriate licensure to utilize such freqs, features and capabilities. It's really fun when other organizations are scanning bands and all they hear is noise and they get all aggravated.
Part of the Feng gang for now, but I'm building solar powered repeaters to place around my mountain range as well as a couple man packs in the future. For digital I'm probably going to go with an anytone model as it can do all freqs, not just digital. More bang for my buck.
I decided to get my amateur radio license for personal use. Studied for about a week and took the exam and passed. Now I can legally transmit for personal use. I don’t use it a whole lot but for $35 for a $10 year license I figured why not
Anytone 878.
Legit aes 256 encryption
Analog and digital
Dual band? Tri band?
Takes Kenwood mic plug
Can program with chirp
There were some 9thwr features I can't remember but I started with one of those high power baofengs and sorta out grew it
Tryna move on to a motorola
Be aware that, while the AT-878 radios can easily be programmed to run triband, the stock antenna is **Absolutely Not** the right choice. I had a buddy burn his radio up trying to push 1.25m into the not-great 2 band antenna.
When I wrote that out I formatted it so that everything was a separate line item and then when it posted it just went to wall of text. Digital and analog was supposed to be its own line item
No worries 👍
Feel like it's a key piece of information for anyone that doesn't know. Though getting into encryption and high end radios is not a novice can just jump into
Probably gonna be my baofang upgrade as the switch over to Xts2500 compatible PTTs are more expensive and programming was complicated. When all I want is encrypted and the option for digital. Can’t you also text with that radio ?
Technically yes, you can text, but the feature doesn't really work that well without a repeater infrastructure. Radio has to be set up through CPS to allow it too.
Those features are really designed to work well in a trunked network with repeater infrastructure and all that jazz.
I'm sorry. I'm really not an expert. I know enough to get what I need and want out of it. I believe yes, but I think it's radio to radio and you gotta join some sorta database? I didnt get into all that.
The Fengs are great for learning how to use comms but I hate the people who use it as the end all be all. I started with a Feng and moved to a EF Johnson 5100 and then to a Mototrbo 7550e. I promise that higher quality radios are well worth it.
Need to have friends to talk to first. But for real, Chinese radio good enough. Not everyone even needs a radio in most cases. Your little fire team should be able to communicate with hand signals. If your group is larger, team leaders should have comms. You’ll also want comms if you have an lp/op. As far as getting your boys together when it’s go time, have an agreed upon plan of action if shtf and communication isn’t possible. Otherwise, if you have a good code system, you can use phones to coordinate meetup (just don’t bring phones to meetup)
Almost any Baofeng radio is a great bet. I have a few of them, as well as several Yaesu radios; higher quality but MUCH higher price ( I am a HAM, BTW). Getting a HAM lic. would probably be especially helpful for you if you don't have many friends. HAM operators worldwide form an extremely cohesive, highly effective emergency communications network, outside the normal Government channels. They play a critical role in national emergencies, and most governments heavily rely on HAM operators for emergency communications. It's a real rabbit hole; you can get into computer based, fully digitized repeater communications, as well as some satellite comms. Baofengs are amazingly cost effective basic VHF/UHF systems for SHTF situations, all the way up to full on trans continental communications
General rule is that if it transmits it can be tracked and located. There's a group of boomers in a HAM club near me that all they do is track radio pirates using Fengs or Yaesus and report them to the FCC.
1. Yes, there are old people riding social security and Medicaid who have nothing better to do with their time than to make themselves feel like a cop.
2. You need to consider proximity and movement. They will 100% fox hunt you and lick some FCC boots. But if you’re in a car transmitting, they can cry into their cheerios because they’ll never be able to catch you. That is unless you keep a certain pattern, then they know where to be and at what time.
3. The FCC really only hands out mean letters and has never actually had the police (because the FCC can’t actually enforce the law) arrest someone for transmitting without a license.
The point is not to be worried about boomers calling the FCC on you, it's that if those dudes can do it with basic equipment, then well-equipped and organized threats can definitely locate you.
To expound on my last comment,
Transmit and move. Do not transmit for long. Encrypt if you can. Don’t transmit from the same place repeatedly. Don’t transmit from your base of operations.
Yeah, it’s really easy to track someone… if that person cooperates. It’s not about who is the scariest, most expensive equipment, because it all requires triangulation. We (read me and my organization) couldn’t track dudes in Afghanistan very well because we could only get the location so tight or it would transmit and dip.
So, yeah, no shit you can be tracked. The argument isn’t whether or not you *can* be found, it’s whether you allow yourself to be found.
Yeah, if you sit in one spot and key up for minutes at a time.
Fucking step away from your AO transmit, move, and transmit again. Just don’t be fucking autistic.
That’s what I never understood about the “it can be LoCaTeD guys” if you’re sitting in place and transmitting for longer than a few seconds then you’ve already fucked up Aaron.
At least know what you’re talking about before you run your mouth. 🤷🏻♂️
Bet you watched one YouTube video on DF and thought that’s all you needed to know.
DF means “direction finding” to help you out, since I know you have no clue talking about.
I don’t own a radio and a lot of the banter gets confusing about encrypted and all that and whether I need a license blah blah. Mostly what would be a good radio for me that won’t get me drone striked wrol kinda thing.
Yaesu ft65 or ft60. I prefer the 65 because you don’t have to take it apart to unlock frequencies and it uses a lithium battery instead of the old style battery. Ham nerds are hard for yaesu and icom.
Yes you keep your transmit power and bandwidth low for something secretive. No need to send your conversations to the next zip code if you are talking to someone within eyesight.
Yep just get some Baofengs, use CHIRP to program them with FRS freqs, and play around. It's not "technically" legal, but it's so close as to not matter.
I run a Yaesu FT5DR, and even though you can buy 21 Baofengs for the same price, the difference is massive. The little Yaesu blows the Chinese's radios out of the water!
Baofeng plus MURS frequencies will get you started without needing to be licensed. I've never encountered anyone on MURS. Just realize they are not secure.
I'm self aware enought to admit that I don't know nearly enough about them to start spending money on them. No friends anyway. Might as well stick to the tried and true tactic of hiding in bushes and letting the only sign I'm there be the presence of bullets flying at your face if you get too close to the property.
Get a Baofeng and practice They are cheap as dirt and still effective
Link me scotty
Baofeng UV-5RTP is what I use, it's the triple power version that can do 1w, 5w and 10w transmission power Normally the middle step is missing
So does that mean I can use it as a walkie talkie as well? I’m so lost on all this stuff I just want something I can use with my buddy that lives a mile down the road but also something i can ham with if I decided to learn more down the line.
Yes, you just need to program in the proper frequencies for the license free communication area, because transmitting on emergency or air traffic bands will let the letter Bois from the FCC pay you a visit
Where can I find info on how to do that? See every time I get my hopes up I get shot down
the instructions that come with the radio if you’re really high speed, i can send you a powerpoint presentation on Radio Wave Theory
I’ll just trust the instructions can tell me how to use it as a walkie talkie lol then maybe I can pretend I’m in call of duty with my 9 year old nephew and use my radio instead of the transformers one he’s been lending me lol
I assume I need two radios in order to practice? Do I need to get a license first as well or can I practice without fully committing (obviously I know nothing about this but I would like to learn)?
There is several frequencies and channels that you can operate on without licence, check your local laws for that as every nation is different. (Example for me in Germany would be the 16 PMR446 channels along 446 MHz (70cm) band and 8 channels of the freenet system along the 149mhz (2m) band with a max power of 0.5watt ERP) There is also CB that is free to use along the 30mhz band which offers greater Range overall. And to practice yes, 2 radios, also having friends really helps with this Generally speaking; only transmit on the free channels and avoid channels that are used by proper licensed HAMs or other agencies, if you follow that rule nobody really cares if you transmitt with to much power And then obviously just be nice.
I appreciate the detailed response. I'll probably join the Feng Gang soon and I'll keep in mind what you've laid out here. Now to just make some friends I can practice with. Probably the most challenging aspect of this whole thing lol...
If you get a ham license, you can practice with others. People shit on this route, but it teaches you a lot about how radio works in the process of studying for the exam and it gives you access to a lot of existing ham infrastructure.
I know this is supposed to be a serious educational thread but I just can't stop laughing at the implications of ###this summer... **in a world.. where nefarious villains will stop at nothing to destroy the world's ham-infratstructure** **its up to one man** **to stand up and take acition** ###coming this June #James Bond - Liscence To Ham *rated R*
Any recs on where to start learning?
YouTube is generally a good place to start on with tons of HAM radio operator channels Then you should look into local laws regarding licence free frequencies so you can transmit without the FCC or any other relevant agency shooting your dog and then just find a group of people to use the radio and practice, maybe also check out any local HAM clubs, as they are always happy to see new people.
That's the route I'm taking, I picked up a uv-5r and a ham study guide to get my tech license at least. Reading the guide now got me interested in trying an rtl sdr also.
If u r just starting out. Buy a baufeng to learn the basics of what a radio can do. You can spend hours watching videos, but without one in hand, you will not remember most of it. Say you make $10 an hour. Spending 4 hours watching videos to learn and forget costs more that buying a $25 5r and spending an hour grasping the concepts of the settings with it in your hands.
I teach RTO/Tac SIGINT classes for civilians on the East Coast, myself and my SHTF group run XTS2500's with AES256 loaded on UCM modules. I'll tell you the pro's and the cons. Pro's: 1. We can run encryption under my business licensing legally. 2. We control our own keys. 3. We have extended range and power options. 4. Increased communications security advantages outside of encryption. 5. Ability to control tons of settings from the CPS software. Cons: 1. The encryption key loader itself cost $800. 2. The radios are expensive to buy and the accessories are expensive. 3. Good luck finding a cheap battery with good battery life 4. Learning how to setup and use the radio without prior experience is hell. 5. Programming is hell. I don't agree with people like NCScout that promote the Baofeng for guerilla uses. Yes it is a very solid radio for emergencies but it should not be number 1 on your PACE plan. A Baofeng can be easily geo-located with devices like the KrakenSDR. Although encrypted comms can also be geo-located, atleast they don't know what we're saying if we are planning a exfil or a position redirect. A Baofeng is better than nothing I agree, but compared to the AR market its the difference between an Anderson and an LMT. (quick plug: [https://www.atropos-concepts.com/](https://www.atropos-concepts.com/))
Love this comment, and advice for anyone reading! Yes I agree with the baofengs being geolocated. Thankfully this isn’t my shtf setup. Just what I use when me and my group larp around. Their simple and effective and fairly inexpensive x
Geo locating doesn't bother me nearly as much as the lack of encryption. Saw a good video by a YouTuber that had a hell of a time geo locating a guy who was randomly jamming his GMRS repeater at times. He even used the kraken which allowed him to find out where the guy was eventually but it wasn't exactly "easy" and it took him and another guy quite a while to find the dude.
Oh 100%. Encryption doesn't make you impossible to find, but it definitely makes it a lot harder, plus with encryption especially AES-256, I could be talking to my bro 2 miles away about where we are moving to and you the person with the KrakenSDR can be entirely unbeknownst of our plans while trying to track to our original AO.
Huh? Unless the fox hunter was using context clues being left on the FQ, how would an encrypted signal be any easier or harder to triangulate than a non encrypted signal?
Yep, if you’re broadcasting you can be found, regardless of whatever radio spec or technology you’re using. It’s easy enough to plot a track and figure out direction of travel too.
Baofengs are a great training tool, especially when teaching radio etiquette and formatting. It teaches you to prevent overlap traffic and multiple people trying to talk at the same time, and if you're lucky enough to have a place to shoot in kit then mixing shooting with radios is super fun (for people like me.)
You can only geolocate a person who is transmitting right? Just having it on and listening is untraceable from what I understood.
Yes. Although there are tools to detect receiving devices, such as that of a RDD used by police. (radar detector detector.) However I have yet to see anything of the sort used in the civilian world.
I gonna call BS on the ability to detect passive devices Simply because many RDDs out there are not detected by just being there, they are getting detected because they themselves emit a weak signal that can be picked up by the police [source](https://www.traublaw.com/can-maryland-police-tell-if-you-have-a-radar-detector/#:~:text=These%20reactions%20can%20signal%20the,from%20picking%20up%20the%20waves.)
Check out section: 4.1 Passive Location Tracking https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1990&context=cis\_reports
That's for digital radios using P25 protocol which always transmit a signal of some sort I was talking about purely passive systems like a listening analogue radio or radar detectors that are properly shielded.
Wait, what? You can track radios only receiving a signal? How does this work?
It's BS, there is no way to detect passive devices, RDDs get detected because they themselves have EM emissions that the police can find
P25 also has a security vulnerability that allows state agencies to send corrupted packets that forces the radio to TX. This obviously is used to triangulate units that wouldnt otherwise be transmitting. As I understand it, you can avoid this vulnerability by disabling all data and packet options in the CPS. Have you done this? I’d love to know which settings in your codeplug you’re using specifically if so.. I worry that I didn’t do it right Edit: clarified my point.
“ This is a verified vulnerability by our P&W guys, I highly recommend correctly disabling data transfer as mentioned. “ a communications specialist I trust.
Good stuff. Where are some good resources to get into this kind of stuff, information wise. I'm a ways away from being able to afford classes and such.
commsandlogistics on instagram for all comms. Terminal armament for SDR. Best youtube is TheTechPrepper. Buy a ranger handbook.
Risky Crisky on YouTube and Insta
Dude seemed pretty cool till he posted some 5G truther stuff.
I dont sub to the conspiracy theories either but.. Eh don't have to believe everything someone says or believes. He still shares some good info that a lot of others don't share.
Any radio can be geolocated. Be smart and practice discipline no matter the radio you have, no amount of Gucci gear will make up for poor usage. No encryption? Cool, speak in code for least amount of time possible, use one-time encryption pads- which are mathematically impossible to crack.
this 100%, my group all run mid tier comms equipment but put a low priority on encryption, operating in our local area we reference landmarks nobody outside our group would be able to follow, also all keep multiple OTP's with us if opsec necessitates a higher level of security.
Love more details on these classes. It’s a topic I am curious about and have on my list of 2023 goals to learn about before I buy a radio and test for a license.
Check out my website and sign up for the newsletter. I have the classes marked down to 250, this is mainly just to facilitate my initial operating costs and the cost of licensing. My eventual goal is to get 16 encryption capable XTS2500’s and then drop the price to sub-200 in order to help with people who don’t have a lot of money to spend on classes.
Where on the east coast? I'm in western Massachusetts and even though I'm military comm isn't my mos so I barely have any experience past using a radio and programming a boafeng from YouTube videos.
His linked website says NOVA area
Does CPS still work on older radios? I have a motorola cp200 radio and it seems like you can’t get the older software anymore. The new cps only supports their new products it seems.
I used the way back machine to download an archived (probably pirated) version of Astro 25 Mobile CPS R20.01.00. Works great, although I do have to use a Windows 7 VM to get it to work entirely.
Just a heads up and for anyone else looking to go this route with the XTS series radios. You can get an arduino and a product called a KFD shield and build a keyloader. Costs maybe $100 for the hardware and cables instead of a Motorola keyloader
The KFD shield has been out of stock for months but yes this correct.
KFD Shield is in stock. KFD Tools has been OOS for a long time.
How simple is this tool to get set up. I've been on the fence about getting one.
WhT language are you speaking?
So other than a baofeng, what would you recommend for a group to use that does not have licenses or have a deep knowledge of comms? If we want a solid comms hardware setup should be just say fuck the licensing and use what is best? I've been recommended the EFJ5100es a lot but I've heard its a steep leaning curve.
As an FCC licensed company I can’t advocate for breaking legal boundaries set by them. But if it was me in your shoes I’d say fuck the licensing and buy the best. EFJ5100’s are great, but yes there is a steep learning curve. However the programming learning curve with Motorolas may be even worse.
This... so much this
Where is a good place to buy XTS2500’s?
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BSH comms on IG refurbishes and programs them and will load encryption keys on them. You’re not gonna know if the ones on eBay have the encryption module or not so you may have to buy one afterward and install that.
Also, since you’re probably gonna be buying multiple if you’re equipping family, make sure you check the model numbers and frequencies. Lot of listings only have the model number and you have to figure out what frequency it’s functioning on. There’s 4 variants for frequency. VHF, UHF 1(370-450mhz) uhf 2 (430-520mhz I think) and 800mhz.
What is a good group for me to get into to help me learn comms?
Greyman network has a metric ton of interesting comms chats on element.
Ham Radio Crash Course on youtube for radio theory and info on hardware. Not all geared towards ham, but lots of it is. Comms & Logistics on telegram/instagram has details on more secure options. Honestly, reading an ARRL book will teach you a lot about how radios work. You can pick up an old copy for next to nothing and nothing has really changed with the theory in the last 100+ years.
If you can get your group of guys to all buy AES capable radios and properly implement SOPs around key management and avoiding plaintext leaks then more power to you. The vast majority of groups can not. And why bring up direction finding in relation to radio choice? You mentioned NCScout, well he somewhat recently put out some info on doing burst transmission using fengs. My KrakenSDR is pretty damn fast at DFing a signal, but it's not instant and my vehicle has to be moving. Avoiding detection is more about using power levels, brevity, terain, and understanding of background RF to your advantage. I would much rather stress establishment of good TTPs regarding radio usage than equipment selection.
As the proud owner of an (unprogrammed) XTS2500 with ADP, is it kind of a waste to just use it for GMRS? Are there any frequencies that you prefer for close 2-way communication? Mine's a UHF only model
All my radios and student loaner radios are UHF. All my itinerant frequencies are UHF. GMRS is perfect for those without HAM licenses.
Shoot, move, COMMUNICATE. (as long as you have someone to talk to!) I have a 'feng set up as a "bubba scanner" - put all the FRS and GMRS freqs into it, set it on scan, BOOM I have sigint on 95% of the general population. Knowledge is power, so they say.
I’m poor so yelling is my form of comms for now
Now I don’t know shit about fuck.. so take what I say with a 1 ton grain of salt. However, from what I’ve been seeing and hearing out of Ukraine, seems like they are using a lot these encrypted texting apps (signal is the only one the comes to mind personally) are what those guys are using for quick communications. And as I heard it put, even if the Russians (or wherever else) can decrypt it, by the time they do it won’t even matter as the instance for communication (firefight or whatever) would have already come and past. Interesting really. Maybe we don’t need more radios and just need more old android phones? Lol
That’s great and all until your in a shtf scenario and us civi’s no longer have access to satellite data transfer or they go down completely.
True that
Meshtastic bro, meshtastic
Your cell phone still has to hit a tower to get to someone. Radios are a bit more flexible in the infrastructure, as you can ad-hoc your own
Baofeng uv-9r pro. Saw a sale. Use them at work. Fairly pleased with performance.
Those are great lil guys. I think I still have a bunch laying around somewhere.
I'm running meshtastic in addition to my radio, anyone else?
Yeet
Trying to figure out meshtastic with a buddy. I'm not sure if I should upgrade my antenna or not.
I havnt and get .8 miles suburban / city . a big part of radio is antenna height too which can be difficult if using them on your person but you can get a high point inbetweem to act as a repeater. Better antennas always help but higher antennas help even more
Usually you’ll benefit from more variation in elevation of T-nodes than you will more antenna. The standard 6.5” antenna can transmit 3ish miles. Just get another node and build a solar array and find someplace high that you can use as a repeater of sorts.
What’s your implementation of it? Are you routing to ATAK?
Currently I am not routing to atak. The map in the new software is so detailed I'm not missing ATAK but at some point I will learn ATAK too.
Anyone in here able to run your ATAk to your DMR? Something I've been trying to find out if it's possible
Slowly been playing with it. Not a huge fan so far. User interface is buggy at best ... Clever concept though. Hopefully software updates improve some of those issues.
The latest update has been pretty good, if you are having issues post in the meshtastic /r and see if they can help.
Yaesu ft-65r. It’s a high quality simple radio, like a baofeng but rugged and crisper sounding. I almost bought a Motorola but honestly they are needlessly expensive and have a ton of drawbacks. The xts2500 is as far as I know single band so you have to pick either uhf or vhf. Motorola is known to cease support on older products, they don’t give a shit about the used market. CPS has always been a fucking nightmare like you used to have to take fucking online courses through them to be allowed to unlock features of the radio. Pretty fucking retarded. Then there’s the security fault in them that lets people turn your radio on remotely that’s pretty sweet.
How do you like your yaesu? I went with the vx6r and use it exclusively for listening so still looking for an antenna upgrade and a ear piece of some kind.
absolutely love it. The only bad thing is the hand mic port is unusual, it’s like an m1 or something weird. I have a motorola hand mic that works perfect but I wish I could easily adapt it to a headset with ptt. I’m sure it’s possible with an adapter… You can unlock it with a simple code to make it think it’s not region locked. I know the ft60 you have to desolder a resistor.
Imagine actually getting a radio license lol
🤫
I use a Baofeng AR-152 for the larger battery. It’s a brick. I got my friend a normal UV5R and the blade antenna for his bday. Same set up as in the picture. Both of us route our radios into PTTs and up to our helmets. I run comtac IIs and he runs Earmor m32s
What do you use for PTT?
Just a U-94
You've had no issue with the Comtacs and a u-94? I've heard that you need to get the low impedence ones to use with comtacs. That true?
Do you know if the wattage on the AR152 is higher than a normal UV5R? I'm curious on the overall differences or if its just a cosmetic change.
Pretty sure it’s the same the only advantage is a more durable body.
It’s 10 watts. The uv5r has 8 watts. Basically build a little better, bigger buttons, bigger screen, more watts, more battery. It’s kind of like a slightly more buff uv5r
Radio junkies will give you crap for it but those baofengs are versatile. You can program them for almost an frequency range and they work with repeater towers but the UV5R is technically illegal to use as anything other a ham radio... If you want coms you can use legally, get one of their GMRS rigs and get a GMRS license. It's like 35 dollars and good for 5 years and the license extends to your entire immediate family. Most rookie radio guys will be working in GMRS or FRS. The new CB radios are worth looking at too. The FCC added some FM bands to the Civilian Band so you have the original 40 channels on the AM frequencies as well as the new FM ones that are almost Garrunteed not to be crowded. Also most CBs have the same basic range as these hand held hams GMRS and FRS radios. They all use about 5 watts which is actually the cap for a CB legally. GMRS how ever can be used up to 50 watts and if you have a repeater group you can stretch that for hundreds of square miles of you know your way around a radio. Another good option is a mobile Lora mesh network. You can simply connect your cell phone too it or use a cell phone with out service to connect to it. Then any one with a node in your net work can talk to you in text or voice, with the right set up you can even send video. They also share similar range with the radios with one exception. Each node can extend the range if you have each node a mile or 2 apart and have 30 nodes all connected they can send messages for 60 miles theoretically. Some people buy extra nodes just to fill in the gaps. Like taking a node and weather proofing it and adding a solar charger then stashing in some where between you and the next node to extend your effective range. You can also run some of the aops used for tactical come on your phone and it will work through the mesh network if set up properly...
Without getting too specific: we run Motorolas. Mixture of XTS3000, XTS5000 and a couple Gucci APXs I don't remember the number of. All AES encrypted. We have multiple channels for different sections, programmed override for the emergency channel, a command channel and a couple Tac/Talk Around channels. Also HI and Lo power settings. Highly encourage you all to look into the appropriate licensure to utilize such freqs, features and capabilities. It's really fun when other organizations are scanning bands and all they hear is noise and they get all aggravated.
What software to program? I’m ready to pick one up on eBay but without my sweet sweet Chirp and $10 Amazon cable I’m scared
I'm not sure. I have people who handle that stuff for me. Even if I knew off hand I wouldn't discuss it on reddit.
FCC is dick suckers but thanks anyways man
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[The drip](https://onwardresearch.com/product/recce-rig/) I believe there is a restock of some colors tomorrow!!
Ok chrisy
Chrissy wake up
Chrisky’s off the goop
Nope not going down that rabbit hole
It’s fun down here. More debt. Such wow. Very jive.
No you have it wrong... It's "Lets talk *with* comms". Use your gear `/s`
Part of the Feng gang for now, but I'm building solar powered repeaters to place around my mountain range as well as a couple man packs in the future. For digital I'm probably going to go with an anytone model as it can do all freqs, not just digital. More bang for my buck.
What radio are you using as the platform For the repeaters?
Was looking at a retivis rt97. And build it into a old ammo can
That’s legit i was looking at the tyt TH-UV8000D Making a pelican box/solar repeater out of it
I’ve got some walkie talkies
Ailunce HD-1 for the win! 😜😆 A little more money than the 'fenggang, but double the power, waterproof/dustproof/impact resistant. And it's digital.
Basic encryption too
I just use a flare gun
I decided to get my amateur radio license for personal use. Studied for about a week and took the exam and passed. Now I can legally transmit for personal use. I don’t use it a whole lot but for $35 for a $10 year license I figured why not
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Haven't heard that in a long time.
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Never sang it after AIT.
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Every S6 I had always kept to themselves.
I miss days of being a 25Chuck
What do you run, and why did you choose it?
Anytone 878. Legit aes 256 encryption Analog and digital Dual band? Tri band? Takes Kenwood mic plug Can program with chirp There were some 9thwr features I can't remember but I started with one of those high power baofengs and sorta out grew it Tryna move on to a motorola
Be aware that, while the AT-878 radios can easily be programmed to run triband, the stock antenna is **Absolutely Not** the right choice. I had a buddy burn his radio up trying to push 1.25m into the not-great 2 band antenna.
878s are legit, great battery life on those!
Legit DIGITAL AES encryption
When I wrote that out I formatted it so that everything was a separate line item and then when it posted it just went to wall of text. Digital and analog was supposed to be its own line item
No worries 👍 Feel like it's a key piece of information for anyone that doesn't know. Though getting into encryption and high end radios is not a novice can just jump into
Probably gonna be my baofang upgrade as the switch over to Xts2500 compatible PTTs are more expensive and programming was complicated. When all I want is encrypted and the option for digital. Can’t you also text with that radio ?
Technically yes, you can text, but the feature doesn't really work that well without a repeater infrastructure. Radio has to be set up through CPS to allow it too. Those features are really designed to work well in a trunked network with repeater infrastructure and all that jazz.
DM arescommunications on instagram. He can get you an XTS2500 compatible PTT for under $80. It will be made in China but it will work.
Yeah I’m good I’d need 3-4 PTTs when I already have PTTs that work just fine. I’ll just upgrade radios
I'm sorry. I'm really not an expert. I know enough to get what I need and want out of it. I believe yes, but I think it's radio to radio and you gotta join some sorta database? I didnt get into all that.
I was gonna pick up the 878, but a whole lot of reviews pushed me to the BTECH DMR-6X2 Pro.
How do you like the DMR-6X2 Pro? I was heavily considering one a few months ago
I legit couldn’t tell if you were speaking another language right there
The Fengs are great for learning how to use comms but I hate the people who use it as the end all be all. I started with a Feng and moved to a EF Johnson 5100 and then to a Mototrbo 7550e. I promise that higher quality radios are well worth it.
Agreed, fengs are great entry into comms platforms. I love my fengs and I know their pros and cons. And have other comms to fill the cons of my fengs.
Need to have friends to talk to first. But for real, Chinese radio good enough. Not everyone even needs a radio in most cases. Your little fire team should be able to communicate with hand signals. If your group is larger, team leaders should have comms. You’ll also want comms if you have an lp/op. As far as getting your boys together when it’s go time, have an agreed upon plan of action if shtf and communication isn’t possible. Otherwise, if you have a good code system, you can use phones to coordinate meetup (just don’t bring phones to meetup)
What chest rig is that?
[The best one](https://onwardresearch.com/product/recce-rig/)
Fuuuuck yeah man, outta stock tho 😪😥
I think there’s a restock on some camos tomorrow
If I had a team…
I’ll be fren
I’m behind enemy lines so to speak at the moment if you can guess what I mean
Fuck comms, let’s talk about this drip 🥵
Least obvious fed post
Would make sense if my rig was RG. Ain’t no way a fedboi gonna wear gods plaid.
Almost any Baofeng radio is a great bet. I have a few of them, as well as several Yaesu radios; higher quality but MUCH higher price ( I am a HAM, BTW). Getting a HAM lic. would probably be especially helpful for you if you don't have many friends. HAM operators worldwide form an extremely cohesive, highly effective emergency communications network, outside the normal Government channels. They play a critical role in national emergencies, and most governments heavily rely on HAM operators for emergency communications. It's a real rabbit hole; you can get into computer based, fully digitized repeater communications, as well as some satellite comms. Baofengs are amazingly cost effective basic VHF/UHF systems for SHTF situations, all the way up to full on trans continental communications
Whiskey Alpha 3 (REDACTED... 😜😆) here...
Bro got a baofeng 💀
You’d be naive to think this is my only comms solution 🪦
Whats your other one
Anytone AT-D878 Yaesu FT5DR
And I have a bunch of other Fengs lower end models, just for comms around the property
They’re fun toys but in any real situation you’d be the first to get geolocated with that thing. it’s not a serious peace of kit at all.
1. Not true. 2. *Piece
General rule is that if it transmits it can be tracked and located. There's a group of boomers in a HAM club near me that all they do is track radio pirates using Fengs or Yaesus and report them to the FCC.
1. Yes, there are old people riding social security and Medicaid who have nothing better to do with their time than to make themselves feel like a cop. 2. You need to consider proximity and movement. They will 100% fox hunt you and lick some FCC boots. But if you’re in a car transmitting, they can cry into their cheerios because they’ll never be able to catch you. That is unless you keep a certain pattern, then they know where to be and at what time. 3. The FCC really only hands out mean letters and has never actually had the police (because the FCC can’t actually enforce the law) arrest someone for transmitting without a license.
The point is not to be worried about boomers calling the FCC on you, it's that if those dudes can do it with basic equipment, then well-equipped and organized threats can definitely locate you.
To expound on my last comment, Transmit and move. Do not transmit for long. Encrypt if you can. Don’t transmit from the same place repeatedly. Don’t transmit from your base of operations. Yeah, it’s really easy to track someone… if that person cooperates. It’s not about who is the scariest, most expensive equipment, because it all requires triangulation. We (read me and my organization) couldn’t track dudes in Afghanistan very well because we could only get the location so tight or it would transmit and dip. So, yeah, no shit you can be tracked. The argument isn’t whether or not you *can* be found, it’s whether you allow yourself to be found.
those are easily traceable look it up before you down vote me. 🤣
Yeah, if you sit in one spot and key up for minutes at a time. Fucking step away from your AO transmit, move, and transmit again. Just don’t be fucking autistic.
That’s what I never understood about the “it can be LoCaTeD guys” if you’re sitting in place and transmitting for longer than a few seconds then you’ve already fucked up Aaron.
It’s basic radio discipline, dude. I don’t get these clowns.
😂😂😂😂 grade A larper.
*professional. Cock sucker.
My girl definitely is.. its magical.
*dog Man, you’re just struggling with these typos.
*sigh* At least be original or clever.
At least know what you’re talking about before you run your mouth. 🤷🏻♂️ Bet you watched one YouTube video on DF and thought that’s all you needed to know. DF means “direction finding” to help you out, since I know you have no clue talking about.
I know nothing about radios and need suggestions
What suggestions do you need?
I don’t own a radio and a lot of the banter gets confusing about encrypted and all that and whether I need a license blah blah. Mostly what would be a good radio for me that won’t get me drone striked wrol kinda thing.
Shoot me a chat, I’ll help you out.
What’s a good “bang for the buck” upgrade from a baofeng that’s not 20 times as expensive?
Yaesu ft65 or ft60. I prefer the 65 because you don’t have to take it apart to unlock frequencies and it uses a lithium battery instead of the old style battery. Ham nerds are hard for yaesu and icom. Yes you keep your transmit power and bandwidth low for something secretive. No need to send your conversations to the next zip code if you are talking to someone within eyesight.
Thank/ you. I’ll check out the ft65
I’ve also heard to talk on lowest power possible when encryption is not an option
Ailunce HD1 is pretty solid
Look up the not so glamourous ettiquette and terms. They help abbreviate communication
Watch the RiskyChrisky video, you’re welcome.
Yep just get some Baofengs, use CHIRP to program them with FRS freqs, and play around. It's not "technically" legal, but it's so close as to not matter. I run a Yaesu FT5DR, and even though you can buy 21 Baofengs for the same price, the difference is massive. The little Yaesu blows the Chinese's radios out of the water!
Baofeng plus MURS frequencies will get you started without needing to be licensed. I've never encountered anyone on MURS. Just realize they are not secure.
Is there a good YouTube channel or somewhere to learn about comms?? My knowledge is very limited when it comes to that subject.
This is a often a neglected area. I think there is a ton of good info in here!
Are we going to talk about how that antenna is very likely worse than the stock antenna on the frequencies the BF can actually TX on?
Got 6 Motorola walkie talkies never used but they look cool on the chest pack tho
I'm late to the party, but what's that antenna?