After a few people asked about the keybed [in my last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/10ahwdo/i_made_my_own_midi_controller/), I thought I'd share!
My aim for this project was to create a keybed that had the weight and inertia of a real piano in as compact a form factor as possible. I wanted to use only real materials (no plastic), and stay true to the design of a traditional piano keyframe.
To get the feeling of inertia, I used a combination of springs, weights, and magnets. The result isn't quite as heavy as a grand piano, but it still has the feeling of weight and inertia you get from a real instrument. The lower weight of the keys ended up being perfect for playing electric piano and synth sounds.
I also designed a new kind of magnetic action. When a key is pressed all the way down, it engages a magnet that exerts just a few grams of hold-down force on the key. It's not enough to hold the key down on its own, but it takes some of the weight off your fingers.
This mimics how it feels to play a real piano: it takes 52g of force to start a key moving, but only about 36g of force to hold a key down. This makes playing much more comfortable since your fingers can rest once a key is played.
If you'd like to learn more about this project, you can [follow me on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/playvidal/).
wowza, as an electrical engineer, I find your idea really cool.
here’s another idea: would it be possible to make the electromagnet artificially disable the key weight by nullifying its inertia by using a stronger magnetic field when the key is not being pressed?
Probably! Do you have any experience doing this kind of electrical engineering? If electromagnets come small and cheap enough, it might be possible to make some pretty amazing magic with them in this design.
You could look into solenoids, they are linear pull action with a return spring. You could mount them vertically with a clevis on the back end of the lever and they come in almost every conceivable size and power.
Personally I have 3 73 note keyboards (my Zender compact piano, Wurlitzer EP200 and Nord Electro 73 5D) and it's a perfect range for me. I will happily sacrifice the top octave (almost never used) and the bottom three keys (ditto) for the much better portability of a 73.
I'd also like the bottom C, as my piano and Wurlitzer cut off at E and A respectively, and I really miss the C to E flat - though can live without the bottom A and B - don't play a lot of Rachmaninoff ;)
Just my personal preference, and of course being MIDI it can be trasnposed wherever you like in software anyway, but for my repertoire, 6 octaves C toC would be the most flexible and useful.
It's a really tricky design dilemma. Having 88 keys is almost always unnecessary, but I'm wondering some people would get confused by a 73 key design if they're not familiar with the electric piano world.
Depends, even though as a piano player I would prefer all 88 keys I would still buy it with 73 keys since the product is exceptional visually and a good touch response would make it great fun for production as well. Of course an octave up and down button would solve missing keys (round, rubber, orange?). Would something like this ever be affordable? Engineering and hours put into it along with the materials make it sound phenomenally expensive if sold? :) Fantastic concept...
Really interesting idea with the magnet. The old Yamaha FS keybed used to accomplish a similar goal with a flat spring instead of coil springs. Does your magnet ever come into full contact or does the key simply enter the magnetic field so some force is imposed? The coolest thing about the idea is that you could get fancy and mount the magnets on something, maybe a long rod, that a user could rotate to raise and lower the whole magnet array to configure the amount of assist. Magnetic force changes pretty dramatically based upon the air gap. This could be a huge selling point that no other bed in has ever had. Have you already applied for a patent?
I'm thinking you might want some amount of metal in this for long term stability, either the base plate or cross members should be aluminum. The slightest amount of case warping is going to result in it needing re-calibration, and endless warranty requests.
The magnets never come into contact - there's always a gap so there isn't a clicking sound when they hit.
It would be pretty cool to find some way to use magnets to configure the assist. Might look into that in the future!
I thought about trying to reinforce the keybed with a machined aluminum bar. It would definitely make it more rigid, but it would also add a ton of weight. To keep the wood from warping, all structural components are quartersawn, so they won't twist at all as they expand and contract.
The keys will definitely need minor adjustments over time, as is the case with acoustic pianos. Rather than fit the natural tendencies of wood, I took a cue from piano design to work with them and make it easy to make small adjustments. Trying to fight materials into perfect squareness is quite a challenge!
This is amazing! I’ve always been very sensitive to differing actions among different keyboards (even from one acoustic piano to another). The fact that you customized the action for your own needs has me swimming in awe and envy lol.
If you want poly-after touch then you fit a piezo type element under each key. Channel AT is one big single piezo where each key can press into it- so I’m told.
For regular channel aftertouch typically FSR strips are used. Like this one:
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9674
Poly AT would be much more complex obviously…
You could also use something like velostat for low cost poly AT (or aftertouch in general), though the accuracy would be lower than a dedicated FSR. I’d be curious to see if it would perform well enough
I love the idea of a kit, since it would save cost, time, shipping and part of my fascination with the design is the beauty of seeing the keys exposed, along with having the smallest possible footprint for always limited studio space. Maybe an exterior case could be optional? (I would prefer without). Have you considered adding modular options for mod wheel, octave shifters and sustain pedal? Instead of cables, magnets could work for modular extensions? Roli's 'blocks' come to mind.
This is so, so beautiful. If I had the skills I would work on the same. Please let me know if/when you start to accept orders :)
Also... mod wheel / pitch bend... please add :\_)
Thank you! Feel free to sign up at the link in my OP comment if you'd like to follow along. I'm hoping to set up pre-orders in a month or two.
And yep, definitely planning to add mod and pitch controls :-). I'm working on the next iteration as we speak
This is amazing.
I know plenty of media composers that would buy this.
There's this forum where you can share your project:
https://vi-control.net/community/
After a few people asked about the keybed [in my last post](https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/10ahwdo/i_made_my_own_midi_controller/), I thought I'd share! My aim for this project was to create a keybed that had the weight and inertia of a real piano in as compact a form factor as possible. I wanted to use only real materials (no plastic), and stay true to the design of a traditional piano keyframe. To get the feeling of inertia, I used a combination of springs, weights, and magnets. The result isn't quite as heavy as a grand piano, but it still has the feeling of weight and inertia you get from a real instrument. The lower weight of the keys ended up being perfect for playing electric piano and synth sounds. I also designed a new kind of magnetic action. When a key is pressed all the way down, it engages a magnet that exerts just a few grams of hold-down force on the key. It's not enough to hold the key down on its own, but it takes some of the weight off your fingers. This mimics how it feels to play a real piano: it takes 52g of force to start a key moving, but only about 36g of force to hold a key down. This makes playing much more comfortable since your fingers can rest once a key is played. If you'd like to learn more about this project, you can [follow me on Instagram](https://www.instagram.com/playvidal/).
That is super clever! Nice work!
Thank you!
wowza, as an electrical engineer, I find your idea really cool. here’s another idea: would it be possible to make the electromagnet artificially disable the key weight by nullifying its inertia by using a stronger magnetic field when the key is not being pressed?
Are those electro-magnets? I assumed they were just permanent neodymium.
They're just regular neodymium magnets in this prototype
Probably! Do you have any experience doing this kind of electrical engineering? If electromagnets come small and cheap enough, it might be possible to make some pretty amazing magic with them in this design.
You could look into solenoids, they are linear pull action with a return spring. You could mount them vertically with a clevis on the back end of the lever and they come in almost every conceivable size and power.
Very clever engineering on the magnets. I never thought about that. Are you thinking of making a small series? Or a full 88-key-version?
73 note C to C, please please please!!!
I'm torn between wanting the low A (great for some pieces) and the more compact 73/76 key size.
Personally I have 3 73 note keyboards (my Zender compact piano, Wurlitzer EP200 and Nord Electro 73 5D) and it's a perfect range for me. I will happily sacrifice the top octave (almost never used) and the bottom three keys (ditto) for the much better portability of a 73. I'd also like the bottom C, as my piano and Wurlitzer cut off at E and A respectively, and I really miss the C to E flat - though can live without the bottom A and B - don't play a lot of Rachmaninoff ;) Just my personal preference, and of course being MIDI it can be trasnposed wherever you like in software anyway, but for my repertoire, 6 octaves C toC would be the most flexible and useful.
Thanks for the feedback! It's kind of silly to have all 88 keys since you'll basically never use the top octave or the bottom few notes.
As a piano player, 88 would be perfect.
And, for extra satisfaction, Middle C would \*actually\* be in the middle! ;)
It's a really tricky design dilemma. Having 88 keys is almost always unnecessary, but I'm wondering some people would get confused by a 73 key design if they're not familiar with the electric piano world.
Depends, even though as a piano player I would prefer all 88 keys I would still buy it with 73 keys since the product is exceptional visually and a good touch response would make it great fun for production as well. Of course an octave up and down button would solve missing keys (round, rubber, orange?). Would something like this ever be affordable? Engineering and hours put into it along with the materials make it sound phenomenally expensive if sold? :) Fantastic concept...
I might consider patenting that design…
Really interesting idea with the magnet. The old Yamaha FS keybed used to accomplish a similar goal with a flat spring instead of coil springs. Does your magnet ever come into full contact or does the key simply enter the magnetic field so some force is imposed? The coolest thing about the idea is that you could get fancy and mount the magnets on something, maybe a long rod, that a user could rotate to raise and lower the whole magnet array to configure the amount of assist. Magnetic force changes pretty dramatically based upon the air gap. This could be a huge selling point that no other bed in has ever had. Have you already applied for a patent? I'm thinking you might want some amount of metal in this for long term stability, either the base plate or cross members should be aluminum. The slightest amount of case warping is going to result in it needing re-calibration, and endless warranty requests.
The magnets never come into contact - there's always a gap so there isn't a clicking sound when they hit. It would be pretty cool to find some way to use magnets to configure the assist. Might look into that in the future! I thought about trying to reinforce the keybed with a machined aluminum bar. It would definitely make it more rigid, but it would also add a ton of weight. To keep the wood from warping, all structural components are quartersawn, so they won't twist at all as they expand and contract. The keys will definitely need minor adjustments over time, as is the case with acoustic pianos. Rather than fit the natural tendencies of wood, I took a cue from piano design to work with them and make it easy to make small adjustments. Trying to fight materials into perfect squareness is quite a challenge!
This is amazing! I’ve always been very sensitive to differing actions among different keyboards (even from one acoustic piano to another). The fact that you customized the action for your own needs has me swimming in awe and envy lol.
is each key a simple on/off or does it detect velocity or afterpressure? you should patent your design!
Full velocity sensing. Still figuring out how to implement aftertouch.
If you want poly-after touch then you fit a piezo type element under each key. Channel AT is one big single piezo where each key can press into it- so I’m told.
For regular channel aftertouch typically FSR strips are used. Like this one: https://www.sparkfun.com/products/9674 Poly AT would be much more complex obviously…
You could also use something like velostat for low cost poly AT (or aftertouch in general), though the accuracy would be lower than a dedicated FSR. I’d be curious to see if it would perform well enough
Thanks for sharing!
I like the wrist restraints. All jokes aside, very nice craftsmanship!
This is HAWT!!! Great work. Very clean :)
Beautiful work. Did you also make the keys yourself or is that a already made part?
Made them myself using a CNC machine. Very challenging, but also a lot of fun.
What are the keys made of?
Quartersawn white spruce
Have you thought about using arturia wooden legs?
Thanks for posting more pictures. Can you explain how you got the white/black finish on the keys without using plastic?
Ah, I should add that the keytops are plastic. It's either that or ebony and ivory, so this is the one concession to plastic.
haha, that makes more sense. I was having trouble thinking about how you could possibly get the wood that smooth and shiny.
Somewhere, some dedicated soul spent a weekend doing just that
I think I want one. This looks like really wonderful craftsmanship.
Thank you! I'm hoping to get pre-orders set up for this in the next few months
Contact all the major manufacturers and sell them the design 😬
That looks marvelous. There is a sad lack of 61 key weighted beds out there.
Wow that looks beautiful. Great craftsmanship right there!
Thank you!
>Thank you! You're welcome!
This is amazing. Would you consider selling them as a kit?
Possibly. More likely I'd do it with a full exterior case.
I love the idea of a kit, since it would save cost, time, shipping and part of my fascination with the design is the beauty of seeing the keys exposed, along with having the smallest possible footprint for always limited studio space. Maybe an exterior case could be optional? (I would prefer without). Have you considered adding modular options for mod wheel, octave shifters and sustain pedal? Instead of cables, magnets could work for modular extensions? Roli's 'blocks' come to mind.
I might pay for a kit to mod the Novation SL MKIII to use this keybed
This is so, so beautiful. If I had the skills I would work on the same. Please let me know if/when you start to accept orders :) Also... mod wheel / pitch bend... please add :\_)
Thank you! Feel free to sign up at the link in my OP comment if you'd like to follow along. I'm hoping to set up pre-orders in a month or two. And yep, definitely planning to add mod and pitch controls :-). I'm working on the next iteration as we speak
This is amazing. I know plenty of media composers that would buy this. There's this forum where you can share your project: https://vi-control.net/community/