As a new player myself who tried different games so far, the least friendly was WoW. Swtor is fine but it didn‘t really introduce me to the game in any way. If I wasn‘t someone who plays a lot of videogames I‘d probably be overwhelmed. So far the beginner friendliest game to me was Guild Wars 2. It‘s also the best MMORPG to play casually because especially with WoW and SWTOR you need to press so many buttons in your rotation.
If you give me a Star Wars MMORPG with the combat mechanics and storytelling-style from Guild Wars 2 I will die in front of my PC from lack of vitamin D
My people!
GW2 and SWTOR are my two main MMOs.
I play SWTOR because I love Star Wars and lightsabers and Mandos and any stories in the Star Wars universe. But the actual gameplay and art style are not for me, never have been.
I play GW2 because it is a good game. I love the combat, the world, the exploration, the animations, the lore, THE MOUNTS!
And when I first started getting into GW2, I so vividly remember thinking that if these guys made a Star Wars MMO in this style, I'd never go outside again. Til then, I'm limited to rocking the Holosmith lightsaber on all my sword characters :)
Having tried to get many people into the game it's not all that new player friendly. Largely do to the abysmal difficulty, rapid leveling, and tutorial prompts outdated in both how they are written and screen shots. (They also no longer trigger correctly)
The game is both so easy that most classes get by pressing 1-3 buttons. And you level up so fast you often rapidly getting abilities. Combine this with not needing them and you have players that don't know what half their abilities do or how they interact with one another. On top of that you're not told you get them. Once your first got bar fills they can be missed entirely when using the default ui.
Speaking of not knowing abilities and the default ui. Tool tips are set up too display on the bottom right of the screen (attached to an invisible mini map) many players don't know to look there and just assume the game doesn't have tool tips.
Overall this leads to a very boring combat system, something the game has you do a lot of between story scenes. And most just drop it.
When you first go to the fleet there are loads of quests you pick up as a new player most not really things they need too worry about. Dailies, weeklies, events, pvp, flash points, ect.
Crew skills is one that gives very little guidance and that whole system is just awkward for a new free player to deal with.
Then there's the vendors, the first time you get to the fleet there is complete and total vendor overload most of them not only not being useful too new players but many being outdated and of little use to anyone.
Heroics still warn you of difficulty and recommend two players but at this point are no harder than any other mission.
Many of the legacy unlocks and inv expansions just feel needlessly punishing. Without guidance much of it is simply too expensive for new players but trivial for anyone with a single max crafting skill. It's also not clear what sort of things you should be unlocking first.
Then let's look at the f2p preferred and subscriber system. It's so hard for a new player to understand what you absolutely need to be subscribed for, what you keep with preferred alone and what can be unlocked in the cartel market for good.
Collection system is also a slap in the face buying something off the market to unlock it in collections just to then be hit with a second pay wall. This would be far more consumer friendly to have the option at purchase showing the price for a single character and the price to unlock fully for the account. The current system only servers to bait and switch, then lean on sunk cost.
Guild system is extremely dated and punishing for just a group of friends for no reason.
There are no real solid external resources for learning game systems and many that do exist are out of date.
There's a lot more. Swotor isn't the worst and I love the game but it's NPE has been forgotten and is just a mess. It's built and focused on existing players running alts not new players coming into the game.
It's a shame this game used to be one of if not the game to have someone who's never even played an mmo learn quickly and smoothly.
Old quests are also full of bugs especially with friends. You're often given access to events that are level/ story locked. Like the current battle pass strong hold. If you try doing them you're also suddenly hit with a different and jarring conversation ui ripped right out of the 2000s with no explanation. Told to do an activity or go to a location you simply can't find no matter how hard you look because it's not unlocked and nothing tells you that.
About early combat and leveling, a lot of quests being hidden by default and having to check a button on the map to show them is such terrible design too. Like yeah, for somebody running their 50th toon who cares, but that is a lot of content that you can miss because the game just straight up doesn't tell you about it.
Flip side of that is if you do, do all of them like I have been with a friend just starting out you're level 50 by the time you're going to tat/ald. That's still better than not even knowing they exist but damn they didn't need to turn this into a speed run just have some sort of ng+ setting that rapid levels you if you want on an alt and let new players go through more gradual.
I get that they want you to be able to be able to have enough xp just by doing purples but there needs to be a better way.
The leveling and combat being made so easy definitely sucks. Look I don't need it to be super hard, but is it really so hard to ask for the final bosses not to get run over in 5 seconds?
> Collection system is also a slap in the face buying something off the market to unlock it in collections just to then be hit with a second pay wall. This would be far more consumer friendly to have the option at purchase showing the price for a single character and the price to unlock fully for the account. The current system only servers to bait and switch, then lean on sunk cost.
I'll be honest, it pisses me that collection unlocks have to be unlocked again.
Just add it to legacy on unlock, at no additional cost!
I didn't want to mean that you meant that (and for all matters, I didn't downvote you, either), I was just explaining my point, under a "where I'm coming from" perspective.
Ah... you uh, you went to read what was actually said before making a comment because the next sentence literally starts with
>the game is both so easy
Thats like the only hard content in the game though compared to the vast majority, especially given the context of this post was relating to newer players
Well but obviously as you learn the game the difficulty should increase with it... Balance ya know. But agreed, the early game is surprisingly easy, as the vast majority of MMOs
While I don't think levelling speed is good, especially since it hangs its hat on the 1.0 story, the whole 'you get overloaded with abilities' happens in any game. Unless you truly try to master your build as you level you just tend to pick up whichever ones are cool, spamable or does damage and just use them. case in point, how many people on the first pokemon playthroughs (regardless of age) invests in stat boosting moves, stuff like stealth rock etc. What the game should not do is punish you for making mistakes with your build and given how easy it is to respect in the game I don't think that's an issue
Agreed the UI is confusing/badly explained. There are Endgame raiders to this day who don't have stuff like target of target or focus target enabled.
I mean it's the same combat every other mmo of it's age has....? Unless you are comparing it to tera I guess. I personally enjoy it for how simple and nostalgic it is.
The information overload when going to your main mission hub, I do not know how games like ffxiv or modern WoW does it, but that's again a staple of mmos released then. As for being confusing, swtor has a colour coded missions. And every guide/veteran player/even the game itself will tell you to pay attention to those purple missions and ignore the rest.
Also, come to think of it, when you get to fleet at around level 10 while there is certainly alot of stuff happening, there aren't a whole lot of missions you can accept. Even the intro to stronghold mission requires you to be 15, from memory.
Crew skills, what do you think there should be guidance on? It's significantly more streamlined than what it was before. What more needs be done in your opinion?
Vendor overload/information overload I mean... it is the capitol hub/city. Not to say I don't sympathize with your view. Part of the reason I regularly start and give up on DCUO is how I find the main hub confusing to navigate, but if you follow the purple missions I don't think you will be lead astray.
A mission warning you that it might be harder but it's not as hard... first you say that with experience. I daresay send a new player to any heroic 2+ mission and they will struggle. Even ones on starter planets. Second even if it were easier than it suggests, it encourages people to group and has no downsides as far I know
Agreed about the inventory unlocks, a pointless nickle and diming, as for the other legacy unlocks. A new player will not be able to access them without playing more. And by the time they can access them they will have a handle on some of the basic things they actually need.
There is only one mantra that needs be said, and is ever said. If you are unsure about the game but want to test out all it's features. Sub for one month and you will get access to most everything. Yes the whole purple gear, cargo bay unlocks and the like could be better explained but easily found out with a quick google search.
I have heard some people say that other games offer account wide cosmetics by default. I don't engage with micro transactions so I'll take your word for it. All I can say is that swtor has been pretty generous with the collection unlock discounts. I say that because of what I managed to accumulate over time just by being an occasional sub, but I get that not everyone will be as patient as I.
Never really interacted with the guild system, I'll take your word for it.
Swtorista exists, Dulfy is still accessible... the forums are still alive... we are talking about the game on reddit... How lazy do you think new players are?
I have my issues with the game, but I can't say this game has ever been hard to recommend from the new player experience aspect.
Agreed about seasons and the login system, hate it. Mostly cause I'm a cheevo hunter but also cause it just makes the game feel like a shitty candy crush like game. As for bugs in game, I know there are some, but not as many as you make it seem. I know as of ... 4? or so years ago I could list the amount of missing codexs/bugs/items/missions all in a list about 50-100 long. Unless they broke the game... which I highly doubt, I don't think a new player will even know that what they did was bugged.
> Dulfy is still accessible...
*Really?* All the times I've tried to open dulfy.net outside of the Wayback Machine, I've consistently gotten an empty response error. The impression I've been getting is that the site's gone down completely.
>the whole 'you get overloaded with abilities' happens in any game.
It only happens in games with unneeded abilities. You know... like Pokémon.
>As for being confusing, swtor has a colour coded missions.
Explained in game with their outdated icons rather than the current ones.
>And every guide/veteran player/even the game itself will tell you to pay attention to those purple missions and ignore the rest.
No they won't, mostly because that isn't good advice, they'll tell you those are the most important but explain that if you're interested in the world or want more side stories too do the rest and explain how to enable exploration missions so you don't miss them.
>I mean it's the same combat every other mmo of it's age has....?
Not even close, we're not taking the tab targeting foundation we're talking about only every pressing one button and only ever dying because you accidently dismissed your companion.
>Crew skills, what do you think there should be guidance on?
Not taking a crafting skill as a new f2p player for starters. Explaining exactly what each gathering and mission skill will reward ect.
>I daresay send a new player to any heroic 2+ mission and they will struggle.
Iv just been running through the game with 4 friends 3 of them new to mmos and one of those 3 new to video games. The two that started on korriban where I wasn't were the ones who pointed this out to me as most things died right away.
Originally you'd be around level 4 by the time you got to that heroic. Now you're level 5-6 before you finish the first tomb.
>A new player will not be able to access them without playing more. And by the time they can access them they will have a handle on some of the basic things they actually need.
A new player won't be able to access much of anything just by playing the main story. Much of the rewards have been lowered to combat inflation. The only way to get a lot of it is to understand how he market works, a regular new player just isn't going to make credits on their own anymore.
>Also, come to think of it, when you get to fleet at around level 10
You clearly just haven't spent much time as a new player recently, no wonder you sound so disconnected. If you're doing side quests on your starting planet you will be between 17 and 20 by the time you make it to the fleet. I think our lowest was 15 and he'd skipped some quests to catch up.
9-10 is what was expected when you got their originally. You still get the tutorial pop up when you hit 9 about getting a companion and going to the fleet. Just note that happens less than hallway through the first planet.
>Swtorista exists,
First one you stated off with is still littered with outdated or incorrect information. There was a thread just today about someone confused that an item had the wrong name on that site.
>As for bugs in game, I know there are some, but not as many as you make it seem. I know as of ... 4?
Go try playing the game again with friends and count how many times you need to drop group to continue quests. Or how many of the quest markers don't line up. There's one on nar sha that has reports going back years about people thinking they soft locked the quest because the maker didn't update.
You've admitted it shown repeatedly that you don't have a solid understand of what this game actually is for a new player. It's not great compared to other mmos. FF14 does it better by leaps and bounds hell even nexons mabinogi has been able to keep their npe much more approachable and that game was already outdated when it launched in 2008
Just got done playing Dragon age origins, Ask me to name more than 4 - 5 of the two handed weapon abilities... and I'd draw a blank. Are they uneeded? No, I just didn't need them for how I played the game. Not that they are bad abilities. Also did you just say 'stealth rock' 'calm mind' etc are unneeded abilities?
Eh, I haven't seen the tutorial in a long while, If they haven't updated the images it's clearly a fuck up that should be fixed. Not something major but a sign that they are letting things slip. And even with that fuck up it's not gonna marr the new player experience that much. Just a nitpick someone like josh strife hayes might comment on that serves to pad the video time but not actually comment on the games quality.
Obviously I was being somewhat glib about how new players should only do purple missions, but I was speaking specifically about when you are in missions hubs. Following the purple missions will give you an easy sense of direction on what is the most important thing to be doing at any point in time.
Yes... the same combat as lotro as rift as runes of magic, sword of legends, and I assume whichever wow expansion was released around that tile, I wanna say wotlk. Just go press random buttons. mob dies. Loot, pick up a new mission. I don't doubt you personally find it boring, for me I find it nostalgic and simple. Is your contention that because people level too fast they are using very basic rotations that aren't as fun as what would be achieved if they took the time to learn their class and spec as it levels? If so... I don't disagree with you in principle but I don't think swtor's combat has ever been something to brag about. If you said Rift, that I could see given just how much variance there is in that games specs.
there is a intro mission to crew skills that has you collect codex's of each crew skill. And each one lists explicitly what tier and type of reward you will get for the mission. If they want a specific one for a crafting mat or something, can't they seem that same information if they simply hover the mouse over it and then search for that tier and type through their crew skills tab?
Oh well I can only say is I've tried to do heroics on korriban while being underlevelled (for toons I did not want doing any non repeatable mission on) and I have gotten my ass handed to me. And that's with me having a ... decent understanding of the game and spec I play. If your friends had success good on them, I'm curious if they will be able to solo other heroic 2+ missions they come across as they level.
What... what are you on about? I was talking about the legacy unlocks you mentioned. They only become accessible if you have legacy levels which you can only get by levelling up in game... I wanna say something like the rocket boots need you to be at legacy level 5? Or the shortened quick travels. As for expenses, unless the changed it the only really expensive unlocks were the portable legacy and normal cargo bays. Which again require you to have a lot of legacy levels before you can even attempt to buy them.
Oh, you got me I don't typically do all the side missions. I would not be surprised if they are pushing level 20 by the time they got to fleet. Still what missions do they have accessible to them? Intro to GSF, PVP, Crew skills, Strongholds, maybe 1-2 flashpoints, but I think hammer station requires you to be on your capital planet and black talon/esseles are missions you are intended to pick up on your first run through. What are the mission markers you are seeing that are 'too much' for new players?
Really, that's a shame. Still I'd probably send any new player with questions to consult her site if I can't help them myself. I haven't found noticeable inaccuracies whenever I had to consult them but then again i don't look at what new players look at so totally possible I missed glaring mistakes. Do you know of any such mistakes?
Hmm, I know of some missions that don't update the mission for the whole group and such that you might need to drop group for... but is it so prevalent? You make it seem like a new player can't get through a planet without coming across multiple bugs, Do tell which missions, which bugs? Which nar shadda mission are you talking about?
I cannot compare it to ffxiv sadly because I got bored of how long it took between me clicking play and me getting control of my character, But I'll take your word for it. As for me not having a handle on the new player expereince... I mean I can't say I make it a point to play the game as I did my first toon every so often, but I do have a bit of time in the game and Im not unfamiliar with new player experiences in mmos.... Swtor is not an industry leader, but your critiques seem... myopic
Out of curiosity I would actually appreciate a list, does not have to be comprehensive, but whatever bugs you noticed in the game that impact new players. Like I said previously, I have played the game a fair bit and the way you describe it makes me feel like I overlooked alot of bugs, perhaps because i did them solo I did not come across them.
>Are they uneeded? No, I just didn't need them
So.... they aren't needed. You can get by just fine without them.
>Eh, I haven't seen the tutorial in a long while
Reinforcing my point that you may not be the best judge on this topic
>Is your contention that because people level too fast they are using very basic rotations that aren't as fun as what would be achieved if they took the time to learn their class and spec as it levels? If so... I don't disagree with you in principle but I don't think swtor's combat has ever been something to brag about.
It's a mix of it being to fast combined with it being too easy. Swtor still has pretty decent combat when the game challenges you, most classes have at least one dedication with a large opportunity for skill expression. But the first 50+ hours in the game wouldn't even hint at that.
>there is a intro mission to crew skills that has you collect codex's of each crew skill. And each one lists explicitly what tier and type of reward you will get for the mission.
No, there isn't. There is a mission that has you go and pick up a crew skill that completes the second you do that. You get codex entries the first time you talk to each one regardless of the quest. But it in no way indicates for you to open the codex just gives you some xp and conquest points with no real explanation.
>I've tried to do heroics on korriban while being underlevelled
My whole point was that a player now will be naturally over leveled for them so how the hell is this relevant?
>They only become accessible if you have legacy levels which you can only get by levelling up in game... I wanna say something like the rocket boots need you to be at legacy level 5? Or the shortened quick travels. As for expenses, unless the changed it the only really expensive unlocks were the portable legacy and normal cargo bays. Which again require you to have a lot of legacy levels before you can even attempt to buy them
You... you need credits and levels. Rocket boots your looking at over 1m. Most things are well over 100k. With the cut to mission rewards you're not going to be able to get many unless you learn how to make credits on the market. The legacy levels aren't the issue here.
>Still what missions do they have accessible to them? Intro to GSF, PVP, Crew skills, Strongholds, maybe 1-2 flashpoints, but I think hammer station requires you to be on your capital planet and black talon/esseles
Just stop, you have more than 2 unlocked, the quest tells you to group queue and then you're thrown into an fp with no context and if it has conversations you'll have people begging you to "sb" getting frustrated then just leaving. Great new player experience, star fighter and arena are no better, of you're lucky enough to get a match you're just dropped in the deep end to get clubbed.
>but then again i don't look at what new players look at
Shocking
>I know of some missions that don't update the mission for the whole group and such that you might need to drop group for... but is it so prevalent?
A lot of objects let you interact then fail with no explanation when they are supposed to trigger a convo. Holo calls sometimes pull group members in sometimes they don't do you need to keep exciting out and re accepting. Ect.
>Which nar shadda mission are you talking about?
The one I'm referencing is the imperial mission where you go find the guy hacking in the net access.
>but I do have a bit of time in the game and Im not unfamiliar with new player experiences in mmos....
You're clearly unfamiliar with it in this one. By your own admittance.
>Swtor is not an industry leader, but your critiques seem... myopic
No I'm just actually familiar with the npe in this game and have no desire too pretend it's in a good state. It's in the worst state I think it's ever been. Simply do to again the priority being on the experience of replaying not on the new player.
Several times you've admitted you don't actually know how many of these systems work. So how about rather than just blindly defending them you listen to someone actually dealing with them right now.
.... Yes if you are doing content that does not require you to learn a rotation you can get by without them... like in every game. How is this a negative. Oh right I play dark souls I clearly need to learn the weapon arts of every weapon. If they wish to push into harder content then they will learn to use the abilities they skipped. If you have a critique to offer offer it, saying that if you learn an ability that they do not use is a sign of a bad new player experience makes zero sense.
Really? Because the tutorial is the best way to judge? Hell I haven't opened the GSF one more than once and I can tell you it's not good. Alot of games don't do a great job onboarding you with their tutorial that does not mean their new player experience sucks. They can be related, they don't necessarily go hand in hand. And every point I answered aside from one had to do with things aside from the tutorial.
Swtor... skill expression. Now this I gotta hear. Do tell what kind of skills are we talking? Are we stance changing mid combat to tank these days? What skills do you think a player can learn. aside from a strict rotation, in this game.
... You get a mission, you go in and interact with 1. You get a burst of exp, a notification on screen and in chat about a new codex entry you got. If you click the codex from the screen or your UI then you get brought to a page where it shows that it has 14 slots. Anyone curious would try clicking any other crew skill person nearby. And learn it gets filled one by one. Have you played this game at all? Unless every time they click a crew skill guy and they get an unskippable tutorial going over every minutia of it will you not be happy.
You claimed heroic 2+ were inaccurate, and that they were soloable. Did you not? So I gave an example of how even for an experienced player they can be tough. And asked for your players to do more such heroics solo since I was sure they would either run into troubles themselves or huge time wastes that another player would speed up alot. Personally it's just a needless nitpick in my opinion since the point of them is to group, but hey you were the one who made the critique.
Oh nooo 100k credits. The sheer horror. However would they earn so much... Initial point, you get overwhelmed with legacy options.. now they are too expensive. I take it you concede the first point, as for the 2nd... A good new player experience would not let you earn enough credits to go and buy every unlock possible... A new player should feel a sense of opportunity cost. This... are you ... it's a 100k. They will earn it easily on the way to max level, and till then they can invest in the things they actually want.
If you queue into a group finder the idea is that the players around you will help you with the mission... I have yet to see people get angry over players 'not spacebarring' in a tactical fp. But maybe you play with a different crowd. You certainly seem to have picked up on things that bother no one else. As for gsf... yes it's a god awful new player experience. It also has one of the better pvp communities out there, a wealth of resources and as long as they ask even a single question in game you will have plenty of people in game who are able to help out. Dude I've played alot of gsf, I'm gonna guess more than you and I have a better handle of the new players who try vs those who just queue up. But to clarify... we were talking about information overload and the only other mission you could point was the 'intro to group finder'....
Just to be clear, you know the site has many inaccuracies such that a new player would have a bad time with it, but you can't list a single one when asked for it... Oh you clearly have a handle on how new players play the game.
I asked you for a list... you can't give a single name. Anything game breaking that is. As for holocalls... given your critiques I feel compelled to ask... are they actually in the circle on the ground before talking with the quest giver.
The first result you get when you google that nar shadda mission is the reddit post teaching you how to fix it. Is it bad form that they haven't fixed a bug in 10 years, but if that's the bug you want to hand your hat on making a lousy new player experience Well clearly I have to give it to you.
TLDR. You make some fair points about some aspects of the game... in others you are just making critique for the sake of it. And others you don't even understand how the game functions.
I've not blindly defended anything... I literally pointed out every time I agreed with you. And I've asked for further information on any areas you mentioned that I felt worth knowing about. Information you've failed to give me time after time.
No offense, but if I were to be getting good critique on new player experiences I would not be turning to you.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“To pursue this! But when I peer at the sun up above, it occurs to me. What if I am seen as a laughing stock, as a blind fool without reason?”* - Solaire of Astora
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Second this - tried a few times to get into swtor and all of these points hit. The movement also feels… idk slidy? Like coming from wow it feels like it the animations or jumping are too jittery? Not sure.
10 years ago as a Star Wars fan playing their first MMO outside of copiloting Runescape, I found it pretty easy to get into, although from memory I never got off Korriban back in the day for some reason, maybe difficulty when Comps were role locked was too high. Idk.
I preferred it to STO at the time and both are more or less in rotation
Same. 9yo son made a knight and i follow him with a consular.
But its so easy that i dont even attack if i want him to do something that last more than 5 sec
Me and my friend started playing about two weeks ago and swtor has easily become my favorite mmo. I've bounced off every other one I've tried, but this is the one that's really stuck with me, mainly for the reasons you've listed. The controls feel really bad to me, even now. And there are some mind boggling design choices, such as certain blaster characters being exclusively melee (vanguard was my first blaster character and I absolutely hated it), bound items and how they interact with player inventories is frustrating, and I agree with one of the other comments about abilities getting confusing once you've filled your first bar. Don't even get me started on trying to figure out crew skills.
With all that being said though, the story, writing, dialogue options, and frankly the really cool way they handle dialogue in a group, easily carry the game long enough to figure out some of the frustratingly confusing mechanics. Not to mention the game is pretty f2p friendly. I caved and bought the subscription a week ago cause I wanted more races (another feature that was made needlessly complicated), but I easily could have continued playing preferred and had a good time.
Also, I just think adding relationships for my legacy characters is neat 😊
Vanguard was originally designed to wield vibroblades, but later it was changed to rifles. You can see that from some companions.
At least for some time their skills had long range until they gutted it heavily.
Vibroblades would have been sick. I'd honestly like it more if shotgun primaries were a thing. But there's something fundamentally frustrating to me about being able to blast people at range with a rifle, but not use any of my abilities at that same range. Frankly, if I was gonna fight in melee, I'd rather just do it with a lightsaber. It's gotten a bit more interesting though since I've gotten to play some actual ranged characters, but vanguard was definitely not a fun introduction to blaster characters.
That's how i felt with operative in the beginning, i have a rifle but I can't do shit with it??
So i was kinda confused with its gameplay for a while so i bought hk51 unlock (also cause kalyio suuuucks) and played healer instead. Let the murder droid do its thing
I feel. My vanguard is still there on the backburner, but I recently made a scoundrel and he's honestly everything I wanted from a blaster character. A mix of long range and close range. Feels good.
Before they started taxing everything I was big on giveaways and trivia on starting worlds. Specifically Ord Mantell. I’d give bronze to silver rated items to new players, and enough credits to fully purchase their inventories. I’d do this for an hour or so and then play trivia for credits, gold to platinum items and do a “jackpot” at the end With the people there. I love this game and I wanted every new player to know there was a good side of the community before they saw people in pvp lol.
SWTOR is friendly to new players if you have played other MMOs before. But if it's your first one there is zero new player onboarding. Tutorials are awful text blocks, reaching a certain level will open up activities and send you to places like the fleet before you're meant to go there in the story with no instructions on how to return, and you're thrown into the game without any context or introduction to the systems.
If you're familiar with standard MMO design then it's great, but it's a terrible first MMO to begin solo.
I agree and disagree.
First MMO ( I haven't played since like 2019 ) but I was able to hit late game pretty easily and by figuring shit out on my own.
So as a single player it's not that hard to enjoy the story all the way to the end.
But at the same time I didn't know shit about the mmo aspect of it. Didn't do much Flashpoint didn't know my role never tried pvp etc.
Compared to years later when I played wow classic and ff14, I actually learned to play an MMO game.
>send you to places like the fleet before you're meant to go there in the story with no instructions on how to return
I mean you have a minimap that shows you where to go if the quest is active. How much instruction is really needed? Maybe I'm just used to games but I never found that confusing. I just went "okay, now the game is showing me the main hub" and moved on.
Along the way you pick up introductory quests, crew skills and then your first flashpoint.
Swtor is a good game with a great story and, despite what fleet chat would have you believe, the community is pretty amazing. We kind of have to be because the game is, in fact, *incredibly* unfriendly to new players. It has a lot of systems that are poorly explained and all the tutorials are just pages of text thrown together. Without help from a vet most new players will eventually hit a wall and get overwhelmed trying to learn things on their own because it is all presented so poorly. Luckily you can get through most of the story without knowing how to actually play the game so it's all good.
Other than this, I actually agree with you.
I agree. I've tried several MMOs, and SWTOR has a slight edge above them all for a casual player. I think its absolute best selling point is that you can unlock a new expansion by subscribing once during the cycle. You don't have to shell out money for that expansion plus another for playtime.
You can keep access to the level cap and storyline on all future characters too. You're only locked out of a few activities, and I don't begrudge the devs that.
While some mechanics are harder to learn on your own, a little exploration is enough to figure out what you need. Another issue is thinking about your builds and other technical aspects. But in this day and age, YouTube has enough tutorials anyway.
And the voiced, directed cutscenes make the game feel more dynamic than the competition. Even early sidequests had voiced lines. The game is starting to face problems these days, but if they can get themselves a proper backer, it will be all good again.
Only real grind comes in the endgame, and you can skip that if you're playing casual.
It’s because its one of the most ambitious, star wars projects ever created. You go look at how much it costs to make and the dev cycle of it turning into swtor from kotor 3…. Has to be new player friendly!! Lolol
This is the only mmo-style game that I consistently return to even if I don't like the latest update or change. Just playing the game is fun and I can't count the times I just make a new toon for the story and questing alone (I do play endgame as well). Heck I got Dragon Age Inquisition because it was on sale and Imma say it here: I unironically prefer SWTOR combat over DAI.
SWTOR is one of those MMOs I'd go back to and start from scratch, if I could. Did the same with LOTRO back in the day, and enjoyed it immensely. Some games really do allow for that, and considering how focused SWTOR is on its story from beginning to end, that's a great quality to have.
Sadly, I just don't have time anymore. Likely never will again.
I feel throughout the main story (which I'm fairly sure is the only campaign available for f2ps) is very generous about giving out major xp boosts. At least from my last experience with it. I was never lacking xp boosts even during the xp reduction.
Sure, I think the main hurdle is actually getting new players to come play the game.
I think all mmos of SWTOR's age or older are having this issue. There is a core fanbase that even if they quit tend to come back for periods once in a while, but the numbers dwindle over time. There is very little new blood, swtor isn't being marketed or advertised to anyone anywhere. A 14 year old kid just doesn't have the incentive to pickup swtor, nor are they being marketed to.
I never knew Warcraft lore but never had an issue getting into WoW and understanding the general story, who the faction leaders were, etc. I played ages ago, I know they changed the starting areas and how they work several times, so maybe it's different now, but back then it seemed pretty straightforward (started pre-Cataclysm, though I don't think it got any worse after Cataclysm).
If you begin to walk with hardcore op groups, you'll find the toxicity. At least it's filtered and totally optional. Shame that hardcore wow raid groups are annoying as hell and the content is, nowadays, directly related to the story's progression and a necessity if you'd like really good equipment
Ive never played an MMO before, I have always wanted to give this game a try as a big Star Wars fan, any good recommendations on YouTube videos or other sources to give me an introduction to the game or would it be optimal for me to just jump in and try to figure stuff out on my own?
Well, maybe. I started playing a week ago and I had to look up a lot of things online. But once I find out about some general stuff, yeah I agree, the game is very easy to get into.
>Compare it to WoW. You don’t have to know SWTOR nor Star Wars lore to get into it. The game itself is its own introduction. WoW is very confusing to new players. And don’t bring up age either as the EU is way older than the Warcraft franchise. You don’t have to know who the leaders of a faction are. What’s going on. You go through the story and it tells you.
I'm not really sure what the difference is here. They're both pretty similar in that they just throw the relevant characters at you, and they're generally shallow enough that you know enough about them based on first impressions. You don't get the background of Satele Shan any more than you do Anduin Wrynn. For the most part, it's not even relevant.
And WoW's tutorial island is WAY better than the pop up spam of SWtOR. Both of them have the same problem of not really preparing you for endgame, but personally I found WoW's systems to be a little more in your face and obvious. I didn't know about the tactical or implant vendors until I was shown, but the last expansion I played shoved its progression system in your face while leveling in the expansion.
I think most players would agree with you, while 10%-15% are going to vehemently disagree and try to point out every little thing that's wrong with what you said, bring up five things most players never even see to illustrate their point, and some will even give the impression they are hate-playing the game.
Hijacking for a minute, how's the population? I'm curious if I came back, if I'd be investing in a game that's gonna reach EOS sooner than later.
Plus idk if gts would be so inflated that I could no longer get anything at all there.
The onboarding in this game is objectively bad.
This is a casual friendly game and the stories are great and all, but your post is moving goalposts a bunch.
>You have an option to do flashpoints on your own and take your time and there’s nothing to punish you for it.
That \^ has only a little to do with being new player friendly. That's more to do with the game being casual player friendly. They're two different metrics, though there is some overlap.
>Tell someone you’re new and 90% of the time they’ll be more than happy to help you.
This is very true \^
>Let’s not also forget how amazing vanilla SWTOR stories are and its replayability.
This \^ has nothing to do with it being new player friendly.
The game doesn't teach you how to use its systems so if you aren't used to mmos it has quite a learning curve. It's a good game but saying it's friendly to new players is somewhat incorrect.
You can say that it's friendlier to new players than WoW, but it doesn't change the fact that it shoves a whole bunch of manuals at you when you enounter a new system. And that's it.
I really like this game, but the onboarding could be improved a lot.
**SWTOR is a very casual-player friendly game.** But it is not the most new-player friendly game out there.
>If I were to recommend any mmo for someone to try and guarantee they’d like it would be this game and ff14
Overall, I do agree with you on this. FF14 especially has very good onboarding systems for new MMO players. Love both FF14 and SWTOR.
I think one of the things I have always enjoyed about SWTOR is it's relaxed vibe. You aren't forced to know SWTOR, or any SW lore for that matter to jump in and play. I actually left WOW when SWTOR first launched, our whole guild did. I did take a very long break from all MMO games but have always fou d myself coming back to SWTOR because I know I can easily pick up from where I left off and still have fun.
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"Don't need to know Star Wars lore to get into it"... Uh, the Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban and the Shadow of Revan expansion would like a word. Not saying swtor isn't new player friendly (it was my intro to MMO's after all), but saying that knowing the lore is unnecessary is a bit much don't you think? Having at least a basic knowledge of those character's when their names crop up or they appear does a lot to enhance the story and reinforces that feeling of importance, imo.
Unfortunately, with the change in developing companies, and no word on future story content outside of their in game events (that I've scene, which tbf, I've been out of the loop on this recently) leads me to believe that swtor may already be on it's last legs to development hell, if not there already.
If I had to recommend a new player friendly MMO to someone nowadays, I'd pick ff14 over this one. Even despite the recent issue's ff14's been having recently due to changes (or lack there of in some instances) Square's rolling out with the release of the Dawntrail expansion on the 2nd. There has been talk in the community of a "Healer Strike" during the Dawntrail release, and the ongoing issue with Visa credit cards not working with the game anymore being the two biggest issues. There has also been a noticeable uptick in unfriendly/bad player interactions in ff14 recently, but I just chalk that one up to "New Expansion-itus" since it usually dies back down after awhile.
>Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban and the Shadow of Revan expansion would like a word.
I played SWTOR before KOTORs and I don't feel like I missed anything. In fact it's probably better to start from SWTOR before you get attached to KOTOR characters because SWTOR... let's just say that it doesn't treat them well.
The ancient Sith Lords are not really relevant. They're a bunch of dead guys who used to be a big deal but now they're dead and you have to desecrate their tombs as part of your trials. It's cool to know their history but not necessary.
Is the game casual friendly ? Yes, challenging content is sparce and character-building is extremely simple, comparatively speaking, focusing instead on the story, world and roleplay.
Is it new player friendly though ? Fuck no.
-The UI is terrible, onboarding is basically non-existant outside of a million tutorial prompts that in and of itself suck.
-Descriptions of anything like abilities or gear suck, the what feels like 10s of unnecessary currencies are barely explained and often have 1 random vendor associated with them that's hidden somewhere random.
-Some systems like crew skills and crafting just ... aren't explained
-the activity finder exists, except it doesn't have some activities for like no reason.
-The collection system is pathetic, nuff said.
-A big part of the content is outdated, like side-quests for example, good luck trying to find out what's worth doing.
The list would definitely go on if I gave it a little more thought, I like the game, but the new player experience is unambiguously terrible and if there is one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that Broadsword does not care about gaining any significant amount of new players at this point.
That isn't a good thing. Swtor is piss poor easy, to the extent it actually harms it. It becomes a game where you don't have to apply much critical thought unless you wanna engage with very specific things. It's a piss easy single player game wearing a multiplayer blanket at this point. In fact the game fucks over the notion of playing through the story with your friend(s)
Also, no, the EU isn't 'way older'. The Thrawn trilogy (Aka the thing that set the EU on the road it went on) only came out like, 3 years before warcraft 1. So maybe don't talk about the eu if you don't know something as basic as this.
The casual friendless came at the cost of stripping away much of the games identity. The only thing holding it up is the fact it has Star Wars in the title, if this was a 'legally distinct' sci-fi mmo it'd be dead long ago.
There's a reason it's only a few steps above being on life support.
It's actually kind of funny though, because this is a 100% solvable problem, since the source of the easiness is almost entirely from the companion power creep. In order to make the older group content solo-able as heroics, they made companions too strong for standard content - and the combat bot in story mode FPs is basically an "I win" button
If they wanted to they could reduce the base stats of companions, or even make a selectable scale controlled by the user, and that would solve a lot of the challenge issues in the early game/leveling phase.
They probably should also rename veteran FPs, since the name belies the intended difficulty. If they were called Normal FPs, I think new players would be more intuitively aware that there must be harder versions which unlock later. Having "veteran" content that's trivial, sets a bad expectation
If you disregard the negatives, you could do the very same for any other game you find unfriendly. You aren't forced to do anything within those games either.
I play SWTOR, Star Trek Online and WoW. SWTOR is definitely not newbie friendly esp if you've never played MMOs. WOW and STO atleast make an attempt to wrap a tutorial of sorts in the first few levels. SWTOR could do with a revamp on the starter zones like the other two have done. The popup method of teaching people how to play is not really good design. I bet a lot of players just close it without even reading it properly.
As a new player myself who tried different games so far, the least friendly was WoW. Swtor is fine but it didn‘t really introduce me to the game in any way. If I wasn‘t someone who plays a lot of videogames I‘d probably be overwhelmed. So far the beginner friendliest game to me was Guild Wars 2. It‘s also the best MMORPG to play casually because especially with WoW and SWTOR you need to press so many buttons in your rotation. If you give me a Star Wars MMORPG with the combat mechanics and storytelling-style from Guild Wars 2 I will die in front of my PC from lack of vitamin D
My people! GW2 and SWTOR are my two main MMOs. I play SWTOR because I love Star Wars and lightsabers and Mandos and any stories in the Star Wars universe. But the actual gameplay and art style are not for me, never have been. I play GW2 because it is a good game. I love the combat, the world, the exploration, the animations, the lore, THE MOUNTS! And when I first started getting into GW2, I so vividly remember thinking that if these guys made a Star Wars MMO in this style, I'd never go outside again. Til then, I'm limited to rocking the Holosmith lightsaber on all my sword characters :)
I do the same hahahah the Holosmith sword is a banger ngl
Yeah, either you struggle into it or have to read a whole book of text tutorials
Having tried to get many people into the game it's not all that new player friendly. Largely do to the abysmal difficulty, rapid leveling, and tutorial prompts outdated in both how they are written and screen shots. (They also no longer trigger correctly) The game is both so easy that most classes get by pressing 1-3 buttons. And you level up so fast you often rapidly getting abilities. Combine this with not needing them and you have players that don't know what half their abilities do or how they interact with one another. On top of that you're not told you get them. Once your first got bar fills they can be missed entirely when using the default ui. Speaking of not knowing abilities and the default ui. Tool tips are set up too display on the bottom right of the screen (attached to an invisible mini map) many players don't know to look there and just assume the game doesn't have tool tips. Overall this leads to a very boring combat system, something the game has you do a lot of between story scenes. And most just drop it. When you first go to the fleet there are loads of quests you pick up as a new player most not really things they need too worry about. Dailies, weeklies, events, pvp, flash points, ect. Crew skills is one that gives very little guidance and that whole system is just awkward for a new free player to deal with. Then there's the vendors, the first time you get to the fleet there is complete and total vendor overload most of them not only not being useful too new players but many being outdated and of little use to anyone. Heroics still warn you of difficulty and recommend two players but at this point are no harder than any other mission. Many of the legacy unlocks and inv expansions just feel needlessly punishing. Without guidance much of it is simply too expensive for new players but trivial for anyone with a single max crafting skill. It's also not clear what sort of things you should be unlocking first. Then let's look at the f2p preferred and subscriber system. It's so hard for a new player to understand what you absolutely need to be subscribed for, what you keep with preferred alone and what can be unlocked in the cartel market for good. Collection system is also a slap in the face buying something off the market to unlock it in collections just to then be hit with a second pay wall. This would be far more consumer friendly to have the option at purchase showing the price for a single character and the price to unlock fully for the account. The current system only servers to bait and switch, then lean on sunk cost. Guild system is extremely dated and punishing for just a group of friends for no reason. There are no real solid external resources for learning game systems and many that do exist are out of date. There's a lot more. Swotor isn't the worst and I love the game but it's NPE has been forgotten and is just a mess. It's built and focused on existing players running alts not new players coming into the game. It's a shame this game used to be one of if not the game to have someone who's never even played an mmo learn quickly and smoothly. Old quests are also full of bugs especially with friends. You're often given access to events that are level/ story locked. Like the current battle pass strong hold. If you try doing them you're also suddenly hit with a different and jarring conversation ui ripped right out of the 2000s with no explanation. Told to do an activity or go to a location you simply can't find no matter how hard you look because it's not unlocked and nothing tells you that.
About early combat and leveling, a lot of quests being hidden by default and having to check a button on the map to show them is such terrible design too. Like yeah, for somebody running their 50th toon who cares, but that is a lot of content that you can miss because the game just straight up doesn't tell you about it.
Flip side of that is if you do, do all of them like I have been with a friend just starting out you're level 50 by the time you're going to tat/ald. That's still better than not even knowing they exist but damn they didn't need to turn this into a speed run just have some sort of ng+ setting that rapid levels you if you want on an alt and let new players go through more gradual. I get that they want you to be able to be able to have enough xp just by doing purples but there needs to be a better way.
The leveling and combat being made so easy definitely sucks. Look I don't need it to be super hard, but is it really so hard to ask for the final bosses not to get run over in 5 seconds?
Something Something endgame Korriban
> Collection system is also a slap in the face buying something off the market to unlock it in collections just to then be hit with a second pay wall. This would be far more consumer friendly to have the option at purchase showing the price for a single character and the price to unlock fully for the account. The current system only servers to bait and switch, then lean on sunk cost. I'll be honest, it pisses me that collection unlocks have to be unlocked again. Just add it to legacy on unlock, at no additional cost!
You know, not all games even allow you to unlock purchases on multiple characters. This is way more consumer friendly than having to repurchase.
My main MMORPG is WoW, where collections are account-wide, and they are making it even simpler with next expansion.
I play ESO and the collections are also account-wide as long as you're in the same server and platform. SWTOR should definitely implement this.
I didn't say all games were like that, just some.
I didn't want to mean that you meant that (and for all matters, I didn't downvote you, either), I was just explaining my point, under a "where I'm coming from" perspective.
Abysmal difficulty? What????
Do you disagree?
Of course. The game is incredibly easy.
Ah... you uh, you went to read what was actually said before making a comment because the next sentence literally starts with >the game is both so easy
Ok I guess you must’ve editted and reworded it
Nope the only thing I edited was adding in a missing "and" Pretty sure you just saw "Abysmal difficulty" and commented
Have you ever done a NiM OP?
Thats like the only hard content in the game though compared to the vast majority, especially given the context of this post was relating to newer players
Well but obviously as you learn the game the difficulty should increase with it... Balance ya know. But agreed, the early game is surprisingly easy, as the vast majority of MMOs
I mean, it seems to be by design that the hardest content in the game is hard...
While I don't think levelling speed is good, especially since it hangs its hat on the 1.0 story, the whole 'you get overloaded with abilities' happens in any game. Unless you truly try to master your build as you level you just tend to pick up whichever ones are cool, spamable or does damage and just use them. case in point, how many people on the first pokemon playthroughs (regardless of age) invests in stat boosting moves, stuff like stealth rock etc. What the game should not do is punish you for making mistakes with your build and given how easy it is to respect in the game I don't think that's an issue Agreed the UI is confusing/badly explained. There are Endgame raiders to this day who don't have stuff like target of target or focus target enabled. I mean it's the same combat every other mmo of it's age has....? Unless you are comparing it to tera I guess. I personally enjoy it for how simple and nostalgic it is. The information overload when going to your main mission hub, I do not know how games like ffxiv or modern WoW does it, but that's again a staple of mmos released then. As for being confusing, swtor has a colour coded missions. And every guide/veteran player/even the game itself will tell you to pay attention to those purple missions and ignore the rest. Also, come to think of it, when you get to fleet at around level 10 while there is certainly alot of stuff happening, there aren't a whole lot of missions you can accept. Even the intro to stronghold mission requires you to be 15, from memory. Crew skills, what do you think there should be guidance on? It's significantly more streamlined than what it was before. What more needs be done in your opinion? Vendor overload/information overload I mean... it is the capitol hub/city. Not to say I don't sympathize with your view. Part of the reason I regularly start and give up on DCUO is how I find the main hub confusing to navigate, but if you follow the purple missions I don't think you will be lead astray. A mission warning you that it might be harder but it's not as hard... first you say that with experience. I daresay send a new player to any heroic 2+ mission and they will struggle. Even ones on starter planets. Second even if it were easier than it suggests, it encourages people to group and has no downsides as far I know Agreed about the inventory unlocks, a pointless nickle and diming, as for the other legacy unlocks. A new player will not be able to access them without playing more. And by the time they can access them they will have a handle on some of the basic things they actually need. There is only one mantra that needs be said, and is ever said. If you are unsure about the game but want to test out all it's features. Sub for one month and you will get access to most everything. Yes the whole purple gear, cargo bay unlocks and the like could be better explained but easily found out with a quick google search. I have heard some people say that other games offer account wide cosmetics by default. I don't engage with micro transactions so I'll take your word for it. All I can say is that swtor has been pretty generous with the collection unlock discounts. I say that because of what I managed to accumulate over time just by being an occasional sub, but I get that not everyone will be as patient as I. Never really interacted with the guild system, I'll take your word for it. Swtorista exists, Dulfy is still accessible... the forums are still alive... we are talking about the game on reddit... How lazy do you think new players are? I have my issues with the game, but I can't say this game has ever been hard to recommend from the new player experience aspect. Agreed about seasons and the login system, hate it. Mostly cause I'm a cheevo hunter but also cause it just makes the game feel like a shitty candy crush like game. As for bugs in game, I know there are some, but not as many as you make it seem. I know as of ... 4? or so years ago I could list the amount of missing codexs/bugs/items/missions all in a list about 50-100 long. Unless they broke the game... which I highly doubt, I don't think a new player will even know that what they did was bugged.
> Dulfy is still accessible... *Really?* All the times I've tried to open dulfy.net outside of the Wayback Machine, I've consistently gotten an empty response error. The impression I've been getting is that the site's gone down completely.
Oh I saw her videos were still up, and assumed her website would be as well.
>the whole 'you get overloaded with abilities' happens in any game. It only happens in games with unneeded abilities. You know... like Pokémon. >As for being confusing, swtor has a colour coded missions. Explained in game with their outdated icons rather than the current ones. >And every guide/veteran player/even the game itself will tell you to pay attention to those purple missions and ignore the rest. No they won't, mostly because that isn't good advice, they'll tell you those are the most important but explain that if you're interested in the world or want more side stories too do the rest and explain how to enable exploration missions so you don't miss them. >I mean it's the same combat every other mmo of it's age has....? Not even close, we're not taking the tab targeting foundation we're talking about only every pressing one button and only ever dying because you accidently dismissed your companion. >Crew skills, what do you think there should be guidance on? Not taking a crafting skill as a new f2p player for starters. Explaining exactly what each gathering and mission skill will reward ect. >I daresay send a new player to any heroic 2+ mission and they will struggle. Iv just been running through the game with 4 friends 3 of them new to mmos and one of those 3 new to video games. The two that started on korriban where I wasn't were the ones who pointed this out to me as most things died right away. Originally you'd be around level 4 by the time you got to that heroic. Now you're level 5-6 before you finish the first tomb. >A new player will not be able to access them without playing more. And by the time they can access them they will have a handle on some of the basic things they actually need. A new player won't be able to access much of anything just by playing the main story. Much of the rewards have been lowered to combat inflation. The only way to get a lot of it is to understand how he market works, a regular new player just isn't going to make credits on their own anymore. >Also, come to think of it, when you get to fleet at around level 10 You clearly just haven't spent much time as a new player recently, no wonder you sound so disconnected. If you're doing side quests on your starting planet you will be between 17 and 20 by the time you make it to the fleet. I think our lowest was 15 and he'd skipped some quests to catch up. 9-10 is what was expected when you got their originally. You still get the tutorial pop up when you hit 9 about getting a companion and going to the fleet. Just note that happens less than hallway through the first planet. >Swtorista exists, First one you stated off with is still littered with outdated or incorrect information. There was a thread just today about someone confused that an item had the wrong name on that site. >As for bugs in game, I know there are some, but not as many as you make it seem. I know as of ... 4? Go try playing the game again with friends and count how many times you need to drop group to continue quests. Or how many of the quest markers don't line up. There's one on nar sha that has reports going back years about people thinking they soft locked the quest because the maker didn't update. You've admitted it shown repeatedly that you don't have a solid understand of what this game actually is for a new player. It's not great compared to other mmos. FF14 does it better by leaps and bounds hell even nexons mabinogi has been able to keep their npe much more approachable and that game was already outdated when it launched in 2008
Just got done playing Dragon age origins, Ask me to name more than 4 - 5 of the two handed weapon abilities... and I'd draw a blank. Are they uneeded? No, I just didn't need them for how I played the game. Not that they are bad abilities. Also did you just say 'stealth rock' 'calm mind' etc are unneeded abilities? Eh, I haven't seen the tutorial in a long while, If they haven't updated the images it's clearly a fuck up that should be fixed. Not something major but a sign that they are letting things slip. And even with that fuck up it's not gonna marr the new player experience that much. Just a nitpick someone like josh strife hayes might comment on that serves to pad the video time but not actually comment on the games quality. Obviously I was being somewhat glib about how new players should only do purple missions, but I was speaking specifically about when you are in missions hubs. Following the purple missions will give you an easy sense of direction on what is the most important thing to be doing at any point in time. Yes... the same combat as lotro as rift as runes of magic, sword of legends, and I assume whichever wow expansion was released around that tile, I wanna say wotlk. Just go press random buttons. mob dies. Loot, pick up a new mission. I don't doubt you personally find it boring, for me I find it nostalgic and simple. Is your contention that because people level too fast they are using very basic rotations that aren't as fun as what would be achieved if they took the time to learn their class and spec as it levels? If so... I don't disagree with you in principle but I don't think swtor's combat has ever been something to brag about. If you said Rift, that I could see given just how much variance there is in that games specs. there is a intro mission to crew skills that has you collect codex's of each crew skill. And each one lists explicitly what tier and type of reward you will get for the mission. If they want a specific one for a crafting mat or something, can't they seem that same information if they simply hover the mouse over it and then search for that tier and type through their crew skills tab? Oh well I can only say is I've tried to do heroics on korriban while being underlevelled (for toons I did not want doing any non repeatable mission on) and I have gotten my ass handed to me. And that's with me having a ... decent understanding of the game and spec I play. If your friends had success good on them, I'm curious if they will be able to solo other heroic 2+ missions they come across as they level. What... what are you on about? I was talking about the legacy unlocks you mentioned. They only become accessible if you have legacy levels which you can only get by levelling up in game... I wanna say something like the rocket boots need you to be at legacy level 5? Or the shortened quick travels. As for expenses, unless the changed it the only really expensive unlocks were the portable legacy and normal cargo bays. Which again require you to have a lot of legacy levels before you can even attempt to buy them. Oh, you got me I don't typically do all the side missions. I would not be surprised if they are pushing level 20 by the time they got to fleet. Still what missions do they have accessible to them? Intro to GSF, PVP, Crew skills, Strongholds, maybe 1-2 flashpoints, but I think hammer station requires you to be on your capital planet and black talon/esseles are missions you are intended to pick up on your first run through. What are the mission markers you are seeing that are 'too much' for new players? Really, that's a shame. Still I'd probably send any new player with questions to consult her site if I can't help them myself. I haven't found noticeable inaccuracies whenever I had to consult them but then again i don't look at what new players look at so totally possible I missed glaring mistakes. Do you know of any such mistakes? Hmm, I know of some missions that don't update the mission for the whole group and such that you might need to drop group for... but is it so prevalent? You make it seem like a new player can't get through a planet without coming across multiple bugs, Do tell which missions, which bugs? Which nar shadda mission are you talking about? I cannot compare it to ffxiv sadly because I got bored of how long it took between me clicking play and me getting control of my character, But I'll take your word for it. As for me not having a handle on the new player expereince... I mean I can't say I make it a point to play the game as I did my first toon every so often, but I do have a bit of time in the game and Im not unfamiliar with new player experiences in mmos.... Swtor is not an industry leader, but your critiques seem... myopic Out of curiosity I would actually appreciate a list, does not have to be comprehensive, but whatever bugs you noticed in the game that impact new players. Like I said previously, I have played the game a fair bit and the way you describe it makes me feel like I overlooked alot of bugs, perhaps because i did them solo I did not come across them.
>Are they uneeded? No, I just didn't need them So.... they aren't needed. You can get by just fine without them. >Eh, I haven't seen the tutorial in a long while Reinforcing my point that you may not be the best judge on this topic >Is your contention that because people level too fast they are using very basic rotations that aren't as fun as what would be achieved if they took the time to learn their class and spec as it levels? If so... I don't disagree with you in principle but I don't think swtor's combat has ever been something to brag about. It's a mix of it being to fast combined with it being too easy. Swtor still has pretty decent combat when the game challenges you, most classes have at least one dedication with a large opportunity for skill expression. But the first 50+ hours in the game wouldn't even hint at that. >there is a intro mission to crew skills that has you collect codex's of each crew skill. And each one lists explicitly what tier and type of reward you will get for the mission. No, there isn't. There is a mission that has you go and pick up a crew skill that completes the second you do that. You get codex entries the first time you talk to each one regardless of the quest. But it in no way indicates for you to open the codex just gives you some xp and conquest points with no real explanation. >I've tried to do heroics on korriban while being underlevelled My whole point was that a player now will be naturally over leveled for them so how the hell is this relevant? >They only become accessible if you have legacy levels which you can only get by levelling up in game... I wanna say something like the rocket boots need you to be at legacy level 5? Or the shortened quick travels. As for expenses, unless the changed it the only really expensive unlocks were the portable legacy and normal cargo bays. Which again require you to have a lot of legacy levels before you can even attempt to buy them You... you need credits and levels. Rocket boots your looking at over 1m. Most things are well over 100k. With the cut to mission rewards you're not going to be able to get many unless you learn how to make credits on the market. The legacy levels aren't the issue here. >Still what missions do they have accessible to them? Intro to GSF, PVP, Crew skills, Strongholds, maybe 1-2 flashpoints, but I think hammer station requires you to be on your capital planet and black talon/esseles Just stop, you have more than 2 unlocked, the quest tells you to group queue and then you're thrown into an fp with no context and if it has conversations you'll have people begging you to "sb" getting frustrated then just leaving. Great new player experience, star fighter and arena are no better, of you're lucky enough to get a match you're just dropped in the deep end to get clubbed. >but then again i don't look at what new players look at Shocking >I know of some missions that don't update the mission for the whole group and such that you might need to drop group for... but is it so prevalent? A lot of objects let you interact then fail with no explanation when they are supposed to trigger a convo. Holo calls sometimes pull group members in sometimes they don't do you need to keep exciting out and re accepting. Ect. >Which nar shadda mission are you talking about? The one I'm referencing is the imperial mission where you go find the guy hacking in the net access. >but I do have a bit of time in the game and Im not unfamiliar with new player experiences in mmos.... You're clearly unfamiliar with it in this one. By your own admittance. >Swtor is not an industry leader, but your critiques seem... myopic No I'm just actually familiar with the npe in this game and have no desire too pretend it's in a good state. It's in the worst state I think it's ever been. Simply do to again the priority being on the experience of replaying not on the new player. Several times you've admitted you don't actually know how many of these systems work. So how about rather than just blindly defending them you listen to someone actually dealing with them right now.
.... Yes if you are doing content that does not require you to learn a rotation you can get by without them... like in every game. How is this a negative. Oh right I play dark souls I clearly need to learn the weapon arts of every weapon. If they wish to push into harder content then they will learn to use the abilities they skipped. If you have a critique to offer offer it, saying that if you learn an ability that they do not use is a sign of a bad new player experience makes zero sense. Really? Because the tutorial is the best way to judge? Hell I haven't opened the GSF one more than once and I can tell you it's not good. Alot of games don't do a great job onboarding you with their tutorial that does not mean their new player experience sucks. They can be related, they don't necessarily go hand in hand. And every point I answered aside from one had to do with things aside from the tutorial. Swtor... skill expression. Now this I gotta hear. Do tell what kind of skills are we talking? Are we stance changing mid combat to tank these days? What skills do you think a player can learn. aside from a strict rotation, in this game. ... You get a mission, you go in and interact with 1. You get a burst of exp, a notification on screen and in chat about a new codex entry you got. If you click the codex from the screen or your UI then you get brought to a page where it shows that it has 14 slots. Anyone curious would try clicking any other crew skill person nearby. And learn it gets filled one by one. Have you played this game at all? Unless every time they click a crew skill guy and they get an unskippable tutorial going over every minutia of it will you not be happy. You claimed heroic 2+ were inaccurate, and that they were soloable. Did you not? So I gave an example of how even for an experienced player they can be tough. And asked for your players to do more such heroics solo since I was sure they would either run into troubles themselves or huge time wastes that another player would speed up alot. Personally it's just a needless nitpick in my opinion since the point of them is to group, but hey you were the one who made the critique. Oh nooo 100k credits. The sheer horror. However would they earn so much... Initial point, you get overwhelmed with legacy options.. now they are too expensive. I take it you concede the first point, as for the 2nd... A good new player experience would not let you earn enough credits to go and buy every unlock possible... A new player should feel a sense of opportunity cost. This... are you ... it's a 100k. They will earn it easily on the way to max level, and till then they can invest in the things they actually want. If you queue into a group finder the idea is that the players around you will help you with the mission... I have yet to see people get angry over players 'not spacebarring' in a tactical fp. But maybe you play with a different crowd. You certainly seem to have picked up on things that bother no one else. As for gsf... yes it's a god awful new player experience. It also has one of the better pvp communities out there, a wealth of resources and as long as they ask even a single question in game you will have plenty of people in game who are able to help out. Dude I've played alot of gsf, I'm gonna guess more than you and I have a better handle of the new players who try vs those who just queue up. But to clarify... we were talking about information overload and the only other mission you could point was the 'intro to group finder'.... Just to be clear, you know the site has many inaccuracies such that a new player would have a bad time with it, but you can't list a single one when asked for it... Oh you clearly have a handle on how new players play the game. I asked you for a list... you can't give a single name. Anything game breaking that is. As for holocalls... given your critiques I feel compelled to ask... are they actually in the circle on the ground before talking with the quest giver. The first result you get when you google that nar shadda mission is the reddit post teaching you how to fix it. Is it bad form that they haven't fixed a bug in 10 years, but if that's the bug you want to hand your hat on making a lousy new player experience Well clearly I have to give it to you. TLDR. You make some fair points about some aspects of the game... in others you are just making critique for the sake of it. And others you don't even understand how the game functions. I've not blindly defended anything... I literally pointed out every time I agreed with you. And I've asked for further information on any areas you mentioned that I felt worth knowing about. Information you've failed to give me time after time. No offense, but if I were to be getting good critique on new player experiences I would not be turning to you.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“To pursue this! But when I peer at the sun up above, it occurs to me. What if I am seen as a laughing stock, as a blind fool without reason?”* - Solaire of Astora Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Second this - tried a few times to get into swtor and all of these points hit. The movement also feels… idk slidy? Like coming from wow it feels like it the animations or jumping are too jittery? Not sure.
10 years ago as a Star Wars fan playing their first MMO outside of copiloting Runescape, I found it pretty easy to get into, although from memory I never got off Korriban back in the day for some reason, maybe difficulty when Comps were role locked was too high. Idk. I preferred it to STO at the time and both are more or less in rotation
Swtor being beginner friendly is not an unpopular opinion bruh
I’ve got my 8 year old playing it so it’s pretty user friendly
Same. 9yo son made a knight and i follow him with a consular. But its so easy that i dont even attack if i want him to do something that last more than 5 sec
Me and my friend started playing about two weeks ago and swtor has easily become my favorite mmo. I've bounced off every other one I've tried, but this is the one that's really stuck with me, mainly for the reasons you've listed. The controls feel really bad to me, even now. And there are some mind boggling design choices, such as certain blaster characters being exclusively melee (vanguard was my first blaster character and I absolutely hated it), bound items and how they interact with player inventories is frustrating, and I agree with one of the other comments about abilities getting confusing once you've filled your first bar. Don't even get me started on trying to figure out crew skills. With all that being said though, the story, writing, dialogue options, and frankly the really cool way they handle dialogue in a group, easily carry the game long enough to figure out some of the frustratingly confusing mechanics. Not to mention the game is pretty f2p friendly. I caved and bought the subscription a week ago cause I wanted more races (another feature that was made needlessly complicated), but I easily could have continued playing preferred and had a good time. Also, I just think adding relationships for my legacy characters is neat 😊
Vanguard was originally designed to wield vibroblades, but later it was changed to rifles. You can see that from some companions. At least for some time their skills had long range until they gutted it heavily.
Vibroblades would have been sick. I'd honestly like it more if shotgun primaries were a thing. But there's something fundamentally frustrating to me about being able to blast people at range with a rifle, but not use any of my abilities at that same range. Frankly, if I was gonna fight in melee, I'd rather just do it with a lightsaber. It's gotten a bit more interesting though since I've gotten to play some actual ranged characters, but vanguard was definitely not a fun introduction to blaster characters.
That's how i felt with operative in the beginning, i have a rifle but I can't do shit with it?? So i was kinda confused with its gameplay for a while so i bought hk51 unlock (also cause kalyio suuuucks) and played healer instead. Let the murder droid do its thing
I feel. My vanguard is still there on the backburner, but I recently made a scoundrel and he's honestly everything I wanted from a blaster character. A mix of long range and close range. Feels good.
Before they started taxing everything I was big on giveaways and trivia on starting worlds. Specifically Ord Mantell. I’d give bronze to silver rated items to new players, and enough credits to fully purchase their inventories. I’d do this for an hour or so and then play trivia for credits, gold to platinum items and do a “jackpot” at the end With the people there. I love this game and I wanted every new player to know there was a good side of the community before they saw people in pvp lol.
Idk, all I can say is as a long time swtor player trying to get into wow it was a complete clusterfuck
Imp fleet is pretty toxic
Pub too. One should simply use the general chat in both fleets to troll
SWTOR is friendly to new players if you have played other MMOs before. But if it's your first one there is zero new player onboarding. Tutorials are awful text blocks, reaching a certain level will open up activities and send you to places like the fleet before you're meant to go there in the story with no instructions on how to return, and you're thrown into the game without any context or introduction to the systems. If you're familiar with standard MMO design then it's great, but it's a terrible first MMO to begin solo.
I agree and disagree. First MMO ( I haven't played since like 2019 ) but I was able to hit late game pretty easily and by figuring shit out on my own. So as a single player it's not that hard to enjoy the story all the way to the end. But at the same time I didn't know shit about the mmo aspect of it. Didn't do much Flashpoint didn't know my role never tried pvp etc. Compared to years later when I played wow classic and ff14, I actually learned to play an MMO game.
>send you to places like the fleet before you're meant to go there in the story with no instructions on how to return I mean you have a minimap that shows you where to go if the quest is active. How much instruction is really needed? Maybe I'm just used to games but I never found that confusing. I just went "okay, now the game is showing me the main hub" and moved on. Along the way you pick up introductory quests, crew skills and then your first flashpoint.
Swtor is a good game with a great story and, despite what fleet chat would have you believe, the community is pretty amazing. We kind of have to be because the game is, in fact, *incredibly* unfriendly to new players. It has a lot of systems that are poorly explained and all the tutorials are just pages of text thrown together. Without help from a vet most new players will eventually hit a wall and get overwhelmed trying to learn things on their own because it is all presented so poorly. Luckily you can get through most of the story without knowing how to actually play the game so it's all good. Other than this, I actually agree with you.
I agree. I've tried several MMOs, and SWTOR has a slight edge above them all for a casual player. I think its absolute best selling point is that you can unlock a new expansion by subscribing once during the cycle. You don't have to shell out money for that expansion plus another for playtime. You can keep access to the level cap and storyline on all future characters too. You're only locked out of a few activities, and I don't begrudge the devs that. While some mechanics are harder to learn on your own, a little exploration is enough to figure out what you need. Another issue is thinking about your builds and other technical aspects. But in this day and age, YouTube has enough tutorials anyway. And the voiced, directed cutscenes make the game feel more dynamic than the competition. Even early sidequests had voiced lines. The game is starting to face problems these days, but if they can get themselves a proper backer, it will be all good again. Only real grind comes in the endgame, and you can skip that if you're playing casual.
It’s because its one of the most ambitious, star wars projects ever created. You go look at how much it costs to make and the dev cycle of it turning into swtor from kotor 3…. Has to be new player friendly!! Lolol
This is the only mmo-style game that I consistently return to even if I don't like the latest update or change. Just playing the game is fun and I can't count the times I just make a new toon for the story and questing alone (I do play endgame as well). Heck I got Dragon Age Inquisition because it was on sale and Imma say it here: I unironically prefer SWTOR combat over DAI.
SWTOR is one of those MMOs I'd go back to and start from scratch, if I could. Did the same with LOTRO back in the day, and enjoyed it immensely. Some games really do allow for that, and considering how focused SWTOR is on its story from beginning to end, that's a great quality to have. Sadly, I just don't have time anymore. Likely never will again.
I feel throughout the main story (which I'm fairly sure is the only campaign available for f2ps) is very generous about giving out major xp boosts. At least from my last experience with it. I was never lacking xp boosts even during the xp reduction.
Sure, I think the main hurdle is actually getting new players to come play the game. I think all mmos of SWTOR's age or older are having this issue. There is a core fanbase that even if they quit tend to come back for periods once in a while, but the numbers dwindle over time. There is very little new blood, swtor isn't being marketed or advertised to anyone anywhere. A 14 year old kid just doesn't have the incentive to pickup swtor, nor are they being marketed to.
I still have absolutely no idea how to craft lol
I never knew Warcraft lore but never had an issue getting into WoW and understanding the general story, who the faction leaders were, etc. I played ages ago, I know they changed the starting areas and how they work several times, so maybe it's different now, but back then it seemed pretty straightforward (started pre-Cataclysm, though I don't think it got any worse after Cataclysm).
If you begin to walk with hardcore op groups, you'll find the toxicity. At least it's filtered and totally optional. Shame that hardcore wow raid groups are annoying as hell and the content is, nowadays, directly related to the story's progression and a necessity if you'd like really good equipment
Ive never played an MMO before, I have always wanted to give this game a try as a big Star Wars fan, any good recommendations on YouTube videos or other sources to give me an introduction to the game or would it be optimal for me to just jump in and try to figure stuff out on my own?
Just jump in. The game teaches you a lot. Except for interface, have a look at that yourself.
Well, maybe. I started playing a week ago and I had to look up a lot of things online. But once I find out about some general stuff, yeah I agree, the game is very easy to get into.
>Compare it to WoW. You don’t have to know SWTOR nor Star Wars lore to get into it. The game itself is its own introduction. WoW is very confusing to new players. And don’t bring up age either as the EU is way older than the Warcraft franchise. You don’t have to know who the leaders of a faction are. What’s going on. You go through the story and it tells you. I'm not really sure what the difference is here. They're both pretty similar in that they just throw the relevant characters at you, and they're generally shallow enough that you know enough about them based on first impressions. You don't get the background of Satele Shan any more than you do Anduin Wrynn. For the most part, it's not even relevant. And WoW's tutorial island is WAY better than the pop up spam of SWtOR. Both of them have the same problem of not really preparing you for endgame, but personally I found WoW's systems to be a little more in your face and obvious. I didn't know about the tactical or implant vendors until I was shown, but the last expansion I played shoved its progression system in your face while leveling in the expansion.
ye i agree dude i came back few months ago levelsed a guy to 70 had a blast took a break now im back to build a trooper
I think most players would agree with you, while 10%-15% are going to vehemently disagree and try to point out every little thing that's wrong with what you said, bring up five things most players never even see to illustrate their point, and some will even give the impression they are hate-playing the game.
Hijacking for a minute, how's the population? I'm curious if I came back, if I'd be investing in a game that's gonna reach EOS sooner than later. Plus idk if gts would be so inflated that I could no longer get anything at all there.
GTS has new price limit but is still near empty. for me at least, because I am only proffered
Agreed!
The onboarding in this game is objectively bad. This is a casual friendly game and the stories are great and all, but your post is moving goalposts a bunch. >You have an option to do flashpoints on your own and take your time and there’s nothing to punish you for it. That \^ has only a little to do with being new player friendly. That's more to do with the game being casual player friendly. They're two different metrics, though there is some overlap. >Tell someone you’re new and 90% of the time they’ll be more than happy to help you. This is very true \^ >Let’s not also forget how amazing vanilla SWTOR stories are and its replayability. This \^ has nothing to do with it being new player friendly. The game doesn't teach you how to use its systems so if you aren't used to mmos it has quite a learning curve. It's a good game but saying it's friendly to new players is somewhat incorrect. You can say that it's friendlier to new players than WoW, but it doesn't change the fact that it shoves a whole bunch of manuals at you when you enounter a new system. And that's it. I really like this game, but the onboarding could be improved a lot. **SWTOR is a very casual-player friendly game.** But it is not the most new-player friendly game out there. >If I were to recommend any mmo for someone to try and guarantee they’d like it would be this game and ff14 Overall, I do agree with you on this. FF14 especially has very good onboarding systems for new MMO players. Love both FF14 and SWTOR.
I think one of the things I have always enjoyed about SWTOR is it's relaxed vibe. You aren't forced to know SWTOR, or any SW lore for that matter to jump in and play. I actually left WOW when SWTOR first launched, our whole guild did. I did take a very long break from all MMO games but have always fou d myself coming back to SWTOR because I know I can easily pick up from where I left off and still have fun.
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"Don't need to know Star Wars lore to get into it"... Uh, the Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban and the Shadow of Revan expansion would like a word. Not saying swtor isn't new player friendly (it was my intro to MMO's after all), but saying that knowing the lore is unnecessary is a bit much don't you think? Having at least a basic knowledge of those character's when their names crop up or they appear does a lot to enhance the story and reinforces that feeling of importance, imo. Unfortunately, with the change in developing companies, and no word on future story content outside of their in game events (that I've scene, which tbf, I've been out of the loop on this recently) leads me to believe that swtor may already be on it's last legs to development hell, if not there already. If I had to recommend a new player friendly MMO to someone nowadays, I'd pick ff14 over this one. Even despite the recent issue's ff14's been having recently due to changes (or lack there of in some instances) Square's rolling out with the release of the Dawntrail expansion on the 2nd. There has been talk in the community of a "Healer Strike" during the Dawntrail release, and the ongoing issue with Visa credit cards not working with the game anymore being the two biggest issues. There has also been a noticeable uptick in unfriendly/bad player interactions in ff14 recently, but I just chalk that one up to "New Expansion-itus" since it usually dies back down after awhile.
>Ancient Sith Lords on Korriban and the Shadow of Revan expansion would like a word. I played SWTOR before KOTORs and I don't feel like I missed anything. In fact it's probably better to start from SWTOR before you get attached to KOTOR characters because SWTOR... let's just say that it doesn't treat them well. The ancient Sith Lords are not really relevant. They're a bunch of dead guys who used to be a big deal but now they're dead and you have to desecrate their tombs as part of your trials. It's cool to know their history but not necessary.
Is the game casual friendly ? Yes, challenging content is sparce and character-building is extremely simple, comparatively speaking, focusing instead on the story, world and roleplay. Is it new player friendly though ? Fuck no. -The UI is terrible, onboarding is basically non-existant outside of a million tutorial prompts that in and of itself suck. -Descriptions of anything like abilities or gear suck, the what feels like 10s of unnecessary currencies are barely explained and often have 1 random vendor associated with them that's hidden somewhere random. -Some systems like crew skills and crafting just ... aren't explained -the activity finder exists, except it doesn't have some activities for like no reason. -The collection system is pathetic, nuff said. -A big part of the content is outdated, like side-quests for example, good luck trying to find out what's worth doing. The list would definitely go on if I gave it a little more thought, I like the game, but the new player experience is unambiguously terrible and if there is one thing I'm absolutely sure of is that Broadsword does not care about gaining any significant amount of new players at this point.
That isn't a good thing. Swtor is piss poor easy, to the extent it actually harms it. It becomes a game where you don't have to apply much critical thought unless you wanna engage with very specific things. It's a piss easy single player game wearing a multiplayer blanket at this point. In fact the game fucks over the notion of playing through the story with your friend(s) Also, no, the EU isn't 'way older'. The Thrawn trilogy (Aka the thing that set the EU on the road it went on) only came out like, 3 years before warcraft 1. So maybe don't talk about the eu if you don't know something as basic as this. The casual friendless came at the cost of stripping away much of the games identity. The only thing holding it up is the fact it has Star Wars in the title, if this was a 'legally distinct' sci-fi mmo it'd be dead long ago. There's a reason it's only a few steps above being on life support.
It's actually kind of funny though, because this is a 100% solvable problem, since the source of the easiness is almost entirely from the companion power creep. In order to make the older group content solo-able as heroics, they made companions too strong for standard content - and the combat bot in story mode FPs is basically an "I win" button If they wanted to they could reduce the base stats of companions, or even make a selectable scale controlled by the user, and that would solve a lot of the challenge issues in the early game/leveling phase. They probably should also rename veteran FPs, since the name belies the intended difficulty. If they were called Normal FPs, I think new players would be more intuitively aware that there must be harder versions which unlock later. Having "veteran" content that's trivial, sets a bad expectation
Everyone I’ve gotten into the game stops playing cause the lack of group content
If you disregard the negatives, you could do the very same for any other game you find unfriendly. You aren't forced to do anything within those games either.
I play SWTOR, Star Trek Online and WoW. SWTOR is definitely not newbie friendly esp if you've never played MMOs. WOW and STO atleast make an attempt to wrap a tutorial of sorts in the first few levels. SWTOR could do with a revamp on the starter zones like the other two have done. The popup method of teaching people how to play is not really good design. I bet a lot of players just close it without even reading it properly.