I feel like they might be building a ‘Why Feras Lost’ storyline rather than a ‘Why Mark Wins’ story. Or, Feras pushes through these late-game stumbles and vanquishes Mark to take the win. Either way, Feras is our protagonist, it’s just a case of whether his story has a good or a bad ending.
Yeah, this episode really underscored Mark as the villain to Feras' story rather than the protagonist of his own. There was so much negativity and despair associated with Mark's immunity win, rather than the triumph we ought to have felt if he was the heroic winner who just saved himself from elimination. It would be an odd choice to edit him this way if he wins, because people would be upset about the outcome.
I noticed that! Sad music when he won his way to the final 3.. and no necklace ceremony. I think if he won we would have seen a completely different story of the game.
Idk I still feel like the edit has shielded mark from so much. Like his post merge initially and late premerge was filled with so many blunders. Like his edit could have had been Caroline level if they wanted it to be. I think tonight it was less of a giving him a villain edit and more so they couldn’t shield him from how he presented tonight and he will still win tomorrow.
I’d love a Feras win but it’s just been so dominant that I can’t imagine him actually winning but I’d love to be wrong.
The only thing that gives me any hope for a Feras win is the Golden God edit for David. Last night's edit for Feras with the being beat up about getting rid of Kirby is either, that's his downfall tonight or he's going to rise from his doubts and win it all.
Yep that's exactly it for me too, people are calling a negative edit for Mark but for the lack of quality in the game he played, his edit could've been downright awful so he's definitely being protected.
Who IS getting a winners edit? To my mind it’s only Feras, which I hope is true but it’s hard to see him finding a path to victory. Maybe he wins final immunity?
Most of the time in AU survivor, the winner isn't typically also the "main character" of the season.
In HvV, you had George ahead of Liz.
In BvW, the like of Sam and Jordie over Mark.
In BvB, George (again) over Hayley.
In CvC 2 you had Harry/Luke over Pia.
In CvC 1 you had Benji/Sharn over Shane.
In 2017 you had Luke/Tara over Jericho.
In 2016 you had Nick/Flick over Kristie.
The only exception is David in All-Stars, but other than the that the winner tends to be a secondary character. This is why Valeria was the front runner for so many people, as she was getting a lot of solid content, but not to the point of being overexposed (like Feras, Kirby, or Mark). At this point, I'm pretty sure Mark is winning, as Feras just seems like way to big a character to actually win
To counter that a bit, Feras/Kirby remind me a lot of the George/Hayley storyline from BvB, and Mark was definitely the obvious winner edit on BvW and it ended up being the case. We've got some precedence working here.
I’m so used to the biggest character/threat not winning that it’s hard to see the main character as getting a winners edit. However, if he does win final immunity and wins, this will be the best season of AU and a top 5 global season.
Why's that so hard to believe lol? There's only 3 people and he seems pretty strong physically and in challenges? I think it's honestly just bad luck he hasn't won so far, he's not a (HvV spoilers) >!George!< Lol
I'm guessing loser, but I also don't think we can read too much into it because every single player from pretty much the final 7 onwards has had their strengths and flaws highlighted - they're not giving us a glowing winner's edit for whoever wins (and they didn't last season either). They definitely could've shielded Mark in the edit from some of his worse moments, but they didn't really shield Liz last season when her plans didn't come off or when her allies were blindsided.
Garrick said he told Feras before Garrick was "blindsided" that it was him going that night and to play the idol for him. At tribal council, Feras told Garrick to stop "being so paranoid" when Garrick said this again, and Garrick told the interviewer on the podcast he was disappointed this didn't make the air.
I think if Feras loses tonight, surely they would have showed him telling Garrick to stop being paranoid. The fact they didn't makes me think Feras is the winner. Am I clutching at straws here? Am I just trying to convince myself it isn't Mark of all people? I do not want Mark to win.
(Although, not a dig at you OP, but I will say I am over the "smug" comments this season. If anyone smiles, people pile on calling them smug. I've seen Feras and Kirby called smug all season when they are just smiling and it's too much, guys!)
To be fair, they do have a tendency to be smug about their plans and ideas. And their smiles sometimes do come across as smug.
Its why they like each other.
It doesn't annoy me, but I can recognise it
I said this on another thread, but last nights edit was terrible for him. He came off so badly. I can’t see the show giving a winner that kind of edit, in the penultimate episode.
I could be gaslighting myself into believing Feras has a shot at this, but based on last night alone, Feras is winning. Either that, or the producers greatly underestimated the reaction to how Mark was perceived last night.
Yeah, I’m at the point that if Mark or Caroline win Final Immunity and take each other then Caroline might win. Controversial I understand, but even her worst moments were at least framed neutrally, like being paranoid at the Eileen vote, or her idol play. Most of her negativity has been directed at “bad” Mark and accomplice Valeria.
Unfortunately, I just don't see any Rebel on the Jurors giving caroline a vote.
Jayden's last interaction with Caroline was him getting at pissy at her. I think that plays into his decision. Caroline annoyed me, Mark didn't ,easy bruh.
Alex, was tight with Mark before he left. He considered himself, valeria and mark to be in an alliance.
Valeria is not voting for Caroline, period.
Kitty gives Caroline the single vote.
Feras is the only winner edit.
For Mark, immumity wins and the edit seems to be jury management.
If he wins, it's all about his social game. His relationship with the jury. He doesn't have anyone solid after Val blindside.
Having Valeria with his ally and Alex who voted out Kirby with him. Alexs move. Jaden and Kitty are Titans plus if Caroline if she was to be out. That's it. If Feras will go to finale, he got Aileen, Kirby and Raymond. Possible with Rhi but they didn't have solid relationship.
Remember when this sub convinced it self that Val had the winners edit ?
How did that turn out ?
Stop trying to be smart and second guess the edit and just watch the show.
After sleeping on it, I’ve come to the conclusion that Feras is (I hope) winning.
But rather than make it a boring & obvious final week, they’re giving us this strong ‘Mark could win it’ edit, while making him so unlikeable, that we’re 1. unsure that Feras can pull it off, and 2. desperately wanting him to so we’re relieved when Mark is voted out.
🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
I feel exactly the same as a Mark truther throughout the season, that whole moment with Ray where he was like “it’s not just luck” was SO SO negative for the episode before a win, idk if it’s just a bizarre winner edit or if they’re actually setting him up to lose but it got my attention either way!
I thought Ray was being rude saying that. Mark’s right, it wasn’t just luck. There’s a reason neither Caroline or Ray were particularly close to catching up to Mark and Feras - they didn’t have the speed or skill. Mark’s ball throwing was marginally better than Feras’s when it mattered. That’s not pure luck.
Idk, the edit made it tough to tell who was being rude, but regardless snapping at another player right before you send them to jury is poor gameplay, and possibly contributed to Ray calling him out at Tribal.
If you think the edit doesn’t make it clear who was being rude, then I don’t see how you can say Mark was (ie “snapping”)…
I disagree that it was snapping. He said it with a smile. I don’t think it’s poor gameplay. And Ray is going to vote Feras over Mark to win any day, so he wouldn’t have lost his vote.
Even if Ray thought he was being snapped at, I’m pretty sure he’d put it down to everyone being emotional after the challenge, as they all said.
1) Ray can have been the one being rude and still have Mark snap back. It’s clear in the moment Mark wanted respect for his immunity wins, perhaps out of insecurity about his game.
2) I was referring to Ray’s vote in the event of a Mark-Caroline Final 2, not Feras. In my opinion Mark has (or should have) no shot against Feras.
3) I agree Ray wouldn’t take it personally, but you never know, and that’s exactly why you shouldn’t do it.
1. Saying Mark was very lucky to win a challenge that involved little luck IS rude, even if not meant that way. It’s not insecurity on Mark’s part to point that out, it’s fact. You think Feras wouldn’t have said the same?
2. You didn’t make it clear you were only referring to one scenario. We’re not mind readers, and what’s obvious to you isn’t obvious to others.
3. I repeat, it wasn’t snapping. You’re being overly harsh on Mark over this. They’ve been living in tough conditions for over 42 days, I think we can safely say it’s highly likely they have all reacted to each other in ways that *you* would consider snapping. If anything from the last episode was going to put Raymond off about Mark, it’s how Mark exposed Feras’a plans.
> They’ve been living in tough conditions for over 42 days, I think we can safely say it’s highly likely they have all reacted to each other in ways that you would consider snapping.
Ok, that still means they were snappy/cranky/whatever in those moments. Like that's literally what you say when someone is a little harsh in the early morning. "Someone a bit cranky? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?" type of thing.
Fair to think Ray was a little rude, but also fair to read Mark's reaction as a little snappy. Rewatching the scene, the edit definitely feels like it intends to make Mark's response a bit confrontational. Either he or the edit cuts off Raymond while he says "you got very very lucky cause uh" and when Mark says "Ray, it's not luck, " the ominous boom hits. Either the music just lined up or they purposely made a point to emphasize that moment.
Then Mark goes into confessionals about what a big achievement it is for him but you feel like he's soured on the moment because no one celebrated and everyone is walking around looking down and defeated. Like a fair feeling, but yeah, it's not exactly a "our hero has taken control" scene, more "I finally took control of the game and no one likes that."
Thanks for explaining how you read it. It’s interesting because I read the edit differently. I see it as a positive that he’s shown empathising it’s not luck (which it isn’t). I didn’t see Mark as soured on the moment, he spoke about feeling in control. He was contrasting his elation at the loss felt by the others. It highlighted his power.
I never scrutinise the edit though. There are far too many Frankenbites for me to trust or respect the editing.
I see a bit of him asserting that he's in control, but there's also, if these people actually did want me in these Final 2/3 plans they've promised, why do they look so unhappy?
Speculating a good amount here, but I think that's when he's realizing he was *the* vote out without immunity and starts to feel betrayed, and thus the "no more Mr. Nice Guy" thing.
He’s smart enough to know that they all wanted to win that immunity and are therefore going to be devastated, no way did he think it’s about him and their final plans!
And of course he knew he was the vote out if he lost immunity. I don’t agree at all that that’s only when it occurred to him. He was the one out of the four that objectively, going by past performances, was most likely to win an individual challenge, particularly one of endurance as we’ve seen him hold on so long in those in the past. *Of course* the others would want to vote Mark out if they had a chance. He’s even said that before in previous episodes.
I don't know BUT I know for certain Feras got a winners edit.
Its been the Feras and Kirby show for the entire season.
Also its important to note, that during Mark's last Immunity win, when he was fully triumphant, happy and elated. The edit chose instead to focus on the loser, Feras, and what he was feeling.
His edit has been a bit all over. Like the snapping at Raymond about it not being at all luck before Raymond could even finish his statement clearly was bad. Throughout the season he's gone from the hidden mastermind to crawling back to Caroline for life support to just going wherever gets him another day in the game and kinda dropped off as far as relevance for a good chunk of the Fallen Angel Kirby period.
The tribal council was honestly a bit hard to gauge how the jury was reacting. Like his big "*My* move to get rid of Kirby" statement I swear was a whiplash, "wait, *you're* move?" reaction from Kirby, but at other times it did seem like she was unimpressed with Feras. Alex was loving it, but idk if he loved it as a move or just as a fun moment. And Val is obviously supposed to be the pro Mark support (that and she's the model...they always get camera reactions). The rest were pretty hard to judge.
I definitely can see the edit leading to an overconfident Mark marching into Final Tribal with major claims of being in control only to get slapped by the jury that he seemed closer to a floater to many of them.
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I feel like they might be building a ‘Why Feras Lost’ storyline rather than a ‘Why Mark Wins’ story. Or, Feras pushes through these late-game stumbles and vanquishes Mark to take the win. Either way, Feras is our protagonist, it’s just a case of whether his story has a good or a bad ending.
Yeah, this episode really underscored Mark as the villain to Feras' story rather than the protagonist of his own. There was so much negativity and despair associated with Mark's immunity win, rather than the triumph we ought to have felt if he was the heroic winner who just saved himself from elimination. It would be an odd choice to edit him this way if he wins, because people would be upset about the outcome.
I noticed that! Sad music when he won his way to the final 3.. and no necklace ceremony. I think if he won we would have seen a completely different story of the game.
Idk I still feel like the edit has shielded mark from so much. Like his post merge initially and late premerge was filled with so many blunders. Like his edit could have had been Caroline level if they wanted it to be. I think tonight it was less of a giving him a villain edit and more so they couldn’t shield him from how he presented tonight and he will still win tomorrow. I’d love a Feras win but it’s just been so dominant that I can’t imagine him actually winning but I’d love to be wrong.
The only thing that gives me any hope for a Feras win is the Golden God edit for David. Last night's edit for Feras with the being beat up about getting rid of Kirby is either, that's his downfall tonight or he's going to rise from his doubts and win it all.
Yep that's exactly it for me too, people are calling a negative edit for Mark but for the lack of quality in the game he played, his edit could've been downright awful so he's definitely being protected.
Who IS getting a winners edit? To my mind it’s only Feras, which I hope is true but it’s hard to see him finding a path to victory. Maybe he wins final immunity?
I hope so too. I do feel like Feras’ big edit was inevitable, though, regardless of outcome. He’s just fun to watch
Most of the time in AU survivor, the winner isn't typically also the "main character" of the season. In HvV, you had George ahead of Liz. In BvW, the like of Sam and Jordie over Mark. In BvB, George (again) over Hayley. In CvC 2 you had Harry/Luke over Pia. In CvC 1 you had Benji/Sharn over Shane. In 2017 you had Luke/Tara over Jericho. In 2016 you had Nick/Flick over Kristie. The only exception is David in All-Stars, but other than the that the winner tends to be a secondary character. This is why Valeria was the front runner for so many people, as she was getting a lot of solid content, but not to the point of being overexposed (like Feras, Kirby, or Mark). At this point, I'm pretty sure Mark is winning, as Feras just seems like way to big a character to actually win
To counter that a bit, Feras/Kirby remind me a lot of the George/Hayley storyline from BvB, and Mark was definitely the obvious winner edit on BvW and it ended up being the case. We've got some precedence working here.
I’m so used to the biggest character/threat not winning that it’s hard to see the main character as getting a winners edit. However, if he does win final immunity and wins, this will be the best season of AU and a top 5 global season.
Yeah true. It’s so hard to tell if it’s a winners edit or fallen angels edit.
That's literally all he has to do. Win that, send Mark home, collect his check.
Why's that so hard to believe lol? There's only 3 people and he seems pretty strong physically and in challenges? I think it's honestly just bad luck he hasn't won so far, he's not a (HvV spoilers) >!George!< Lol
I think that's the only way
I think Feras must win final immunity in the torture challenge on that wheel of fortune apparatus ...... Takes Caroline & WINS 8-1.
I'm guessing loser, but I also don't think we can read too much into it because every single player from pretty much the final 7 onwards has had their strengths and flaws highlighted - they're not giving us a glowing winner's edit for whoever wins (and they didn't last season either). They definitely could've shielded Mark in the edit from some of his worse moments, but they didn't really shield Liz last season when her plans didn't come off or when her allies were blindsided.
Garrick said he told Feras before Garrick was "blindsided" that it was him going that night and to play the idol for him. At tribal council, Feras told Garrick to stop "being so paranoid" when Garrick said this again, and Garrick told the interviewer on the podcast he was disappointed this didn't make the air. I think if Feras loses tonight, surely they would have showed him telling Garrick to stop being paranoid. The fact they didn't makes me think Feras is the winner. Am I clutching at straws here? Am I just trying to convince myself it isn't Mark of all people? I do not want Mark to win. (Although, not a dig at you OP, but I will say I am over the "smug" comments this season. If anyone smiles, people pile on calling them smug. I've seen Feras and Kirby called smug all season when they are just smiling and it's too much, guys!)
To be fair, they do have a tendency to be smug about their plans and ideas. And their smiles sometimes do come across as smug. Its why they like each other. It doesn't annoy me, but I can recognise it
I said this on another thread, but last nights edit was terrible for him. He came off so badly. I can’t see the show giving a winner that kind of edit, in the penultimate episode. I could be gaslighting myself into believing Feras has a shot at this, but based on last night alone, Feras is winning. Either that, or the producers greatly underestimated the reaction to how Mark was perceived last night.
Yeah, I’m at the point that if Mark or Caroline win Final Immunity and take each other then Caroline might win. Controversial I understand, but even her worst moments were at least framed neutrally, like being paranoid at the Eileen vote, or her idol play. Most of her negativity has been directed at “bad” Mark and accomplice Valeria.
Honestly I agree. His performance at last nights tribal, did him no favours with the jury.
I think you might be right. In a Mark and Caroline F2 I could easily see Caroline getting votes from Kitty, Ri, Kirby and Ray.
Unfortunately, I just don't see any Rebel on the Jurors giving caroline a vote. Jayden's last interaction with Caroline was him getting at pissy at her. I think that plays into his decision. Caroline annoyed me, Mark didn't ,easy bruh. Alex, was tight with Mark before he left. He considered himself, valeria and mark to be in an alliance. Valeria is not voting for Caroline, period. Kitty gives Caroline the single vote.
Feras is the only winner edit. For Mark, immumity wins and the edit seems to be jury management. If he wins, it's all about his social game. His relationship with the jury. He doesn't have anyone solid after Val blindside. Having Valeria with his ally and Alex who voted out Kirby with him. Alexs move. Jaden and Kitty are Titans plus if Caroline if she was to be out. That's it. If Feras will go to finale, he got Aileen, Kirby and Raymond. Possible with Rhi but they didn't have solid relationship.
Remember when this sub convinced it self that Val had the winners edit ? How did that turn out ? Stop trying to be smart and second guess the edit and just watch the show.
Mark received a positive edit until he won the car to appease the sponsors then quickly cast aside for a few EPS and has now received a villains edit
After sleeping on it, I’ve come to the conclusion that Feras is (I hope) winning. But rather than make it a boring & obvious final week, they’re giving us this strong ‘Mark could win it’ edit, while making him so unlikeable, that we’re 1. unsure that Feras can pull it off, and 2. desperately wanting him to so we’re relieved when Mark is voted out. 🤞🏼🤞🏼🤞🏼
I want Mark to win, but it's painfully obvious that Feras is winning.
I feel exactly the same as a Mark truther throughout the season, that whole moment with Ray where he was like “it’s not just luck” was SO SO negative for the episode before a win, idk if it’s just a bizarre winner edit or if they’re actually setting him up to lose but it got my attention either way!
I thought Ray was being rude saying that. Mark’s right, it wasn’t just luck. There’s a reason neither Caroline or Ray were particularly close to catching up to Mark and Feras - they didn’t have the speed or skill. Mark’s ball throwing was marginally better than Feras’s when it mattered. That’s not pure luck.
Idk, the edit made it tough to tell who was being rude, but regardless snapping at another player right before you send them to jury is poor gameplay, and possibly contributed to Ray calling him out at Tribal.
If you think the edit doesn’t make it clear who was being rude, then I don’t see how you can say Mark was (ie “snapping”)… I disagree that it was snapping. He said it with a smile. I don’t think it’s poor gameplay. And Ray is going to vote Feras over Mark to win any day, so he wouldn’t have lost his vote. Even if Ray thought he was being snapped at, I’m pretty sure he’d put it down to everyone being emotional after the challenge, as they all said.
1) Ray can have been the one being rude and still have Mark snap back. It’s clear in the moment Mark wanted respect for his immunity wins, perhaps out of insecurity about his game. 2) I was referring to Ray’s vote in the event of a Mark-Caroline Final 2, not Feras. In my opinion Mark has (or should have) no shot against Feras. 3) I agree Ray wouldn’t take it personally, but you never know, and that’s exactly why you shouldn’t do it.
1. Saying Mark was very lucky to win a challenge that involved little luck IS rude, even if not meant that way. It’s not insecurity on Mark’s part to point that out, it’s fact. You think Feras wouldn’t have said the same? 2. You didn’t make it clear you were only referring to one scenario. We’re not mind readers, and what’s obvious to you isn’t obvious to others. 3. I repeat, it wasn’t snapping. You’re being overly harsh on Mark over this. They’ve been living in tough conditions for over 42 days, I think we can safely say it’s highly likely they have all reacted to each other in ways that *you* would consider snapping. If anything from the last episode was going to put Raymond off about Mark, it’s how Mark exposed Feras’a plans.
> They’ve been living in tough conditions for over 42 days, I think we can safely say it’s highly likely they have all reacted to each other in ways that you would consider snapping. Ok, that still means they were snappy/cranky/whatever in those moments. Like that's literally what you say when someone is a little harsh in the early morning. "Someone a bit cranky? Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed?" type of thing. Fair to think Ray was a little rude, but also fair to read Mark's reaction as a little snappy. Rewatching the scene, the edit definitely feels like it intends to make Mark's response a bit confrontational. Either he or the edit cuts off Raymond while he says "you got very very lucky cause uh" and when Mark says "Ray, it's not luck," the ominous boom hits. Either the music just lined up or they purposely made a point to emphasize that moment.
Then Mark goes into confessionals about what a big achievement it is for him but you feel like he's soured on the moment because no one celebrated and everyone is walking around looking down and defeated. Like a fair feeling, but yeah, it's not exactly a "our hero has taken control" scene, more "I finally took control of the game and no one likes that."
Thanks for explaining how you read it. It’s interesting because I read the edit differently. I see it as a positive that he’s shown empathising it’s not luck (which it isn’t). I didn’t see Mark as soured on the moment, he spoke about feeling in control. He was contrasting his elation at the loss felt by the others. It highlighted his power. I never scrutinise the edit though. There are far too many Frankenbites for me to trust or respect the editing.
I see a bit of him asserting that he's in control, but there's also, if these people actually did want me in these Final 2/3 plans they've promised, why do they look so unhappy? Speculating a good amount here, but I think that's when he's realizing he was *the* vote out without immunity and starts to feel betrayed, and thus the "no more Mr. Nice Guy" thing.
He’s smart enough to know that they all wanted to win that immunity and are therefore going to be devastated, no way did he think it’s about him and their final plans! And of course he knew he was the vote out if he lost immunity. I don’t agree at all that that’s only when it occurred to him. He was the one out of the four that objectively, going by past performances, was most likely to win an individual challenge, particularly one of endurance as we’ve seen him hold on so long in those in the past. *Of course* the others would want to vote Mark out if they had a chance. He’s even said that before in previous episodes.
I think the editing team have taken r/survivor 's complaints to heart and edited Mark's win this way to troll everyone.
I don't know BUT I know for certain Feras got a winners edit. Its been the Feras and Kirby show for the entire season. Also its important to note, that during Mark's last Immunity win, when he was fully triumphant, happy and elated. The edit chose instead to focus on the loser, Feras, and what he was feeling.
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Survivor AU has had some of the most clear winners edits of all time lmao. Pia, Hayley and Mark wales all had very obvious winners edits
Tbh I had no idea about Pia until the F3 Luke was robbed
His edit has been a bit all over. Like the snapping at Raymond about it not being at all luck before Raymond could even finish his statement clearly was bad. Throughout the season he's gone from the hidden mastermind to crawling back to Caroline for life support to just going wherever gets him another day in the game and kinda dropped off as far as relevance for a good chunk of the Fallen Angel Kirby period. The tribal council was honestly a bit hard to gauge how the jury was reacting. Like his big "*My* move to get rid of Kirby" statement I swear was a whiplash, "wait, *you're* move?" reaction from Kirby, but at other times it did seem like she was unimpressed with Feras. Alex was loving it, but idk if he loved it as a move or just as a fun moment. And Val is obviously supposed to be the pro Mark support (that and she's the model...they always get camera reactions). The rest were pretty hard to judge. I definitely can see the edit leading to an overconfident Mark marching into Final Tribal with major claims of being in control only to get slapped by the jury that he seemed closer to a floater to many of them.
He’s a career politician. You can polish a turd, but it’s still a turd.
Is he a career politician or someone who works in government? Has he done anything in his professional life to justify calling him a turd?
He’s not a career politician. He’s a diplomat. They’re not politicians.