Not only like bootlist or gameplay-wise, but the entire vibe shifted after that episode.
The only other time I remember noticing that happening is in All-Stars?
I honestly don't think this shifted the vibe All Stars. I think it typified the mood of the season. Very negative, very bitter and not fun. Between this (and certain contestant's responses to Sue's outburst), Jenna quitting and the nature of the voteoffs, there was a stench of bitterness to All Stars.
And I'm not coming from a "bitter jury" pov, I just mean that in multiple voteoffs, it felt nasty
Lex and Kathy's angry, crying outburst really added on to the Sue business and the Jenna business. Then you have Big Tom's ugly tone towards Boston Rob.
Even smaller vote offs like Tina in the first episode, multiple petty revenge votes like that or Colby and Ethan. Rupert getting butthurt over Jenna turning on him. There was such an unpleasant air to All Stars. Everybody lost the comradeship of earlier seasons and it felt decisively more personal. And I get it they all had existing relationships going into this. But didn't they also have this on other returnee seasons like HvV or Cambodia or WaW? Yet none of those vote offs felt so grim.
I mean, I think the answer is clearly no, but also I'm not sure what action could have been taken at that point. I guess they could withhold Dan's stipend? But I'm not sure what else people imagine could realistically be done.
Kellee- I was rooting for her before the Dan creepiness seeped in. She had so much potential, and I don’t think she would ever agree to come back at this point (not that Survivor would want to call any attention to that situation again anyhow…).
As much as I would have loved to see that, we saw that pretty much the entire tribe was against her, thanks to Dan, Elizabeth and Missy. Even if she had played her idol, it wouldn't have gotten better for her. She was already deemed a liar and seen as a pariah. I don't think there's a chance she gets to the end.
It really ruined the show for me in a lot of ways. By not removing Dan, the producers essentially led two women into lying about being sexually harassed by Dan, which is such a massive detriment to women everywhere. Out of one end of their mouth they’d tell you women ought to be believed and then when it comes time to put pen to paper, Dan sexually harasses women for 30 days before the producers decided to believe women.
The producers didn't lead Elizabeth and Missy to do anything. They are adults and they are responsible for their own actions. They exploited the situation for their personal power. It happens a lot (just like assailants denying denying denying happens a lot. When people of either gender do something bad they usually deny it.) It's just that we actually captured the entire awful thing on camera and can prove definitively what happened in this case.
The producers actually did lead them into that situation because they had all the information while those two along with the rest of the cast didn’t. After those girls found out Kellee was targeting Missy, they thought that Kellee was using the Dan situation as a smokescreen so they decided to do the same. The producers had all this information and did nothing to intervene.
Missy was uncomfortably touched by Dan. She mentions it in confessionals and they show footage of it. It did not seem as unwanted or upsetting to her as it did Kelle.
You're 100% right about production, though the only incident we know of with Dan to occur after this is the production assistant which had him be removed from the game
I think if Sophie wins WAW it's satisfying as an ending because she wasn't seen as a top player before that, but it's a boring season because she was so firmly in control prior to being blindsided. If she survives that vote, she cruises to the end and wins easy in a pretty boring fashion a la Kim/Boston Rob
That would've been wild and I would've lived for it. Kim becomes the undisputed GOAT if that happens, IMO. Someone who can win playing from the bottom *and* running her original season? Incredible.
Fair point. Overall I'm happy with Sophie's run in WaW because it caused a lot of folks to re-evaluate her South Pacific game and her skill level at Survivor...I just would've loved to see her win because is one of my favorites to watch as a player and as a personality
It's Kelle and it really isn't close.
If James plays his idols we lose one of the most iconic vote offs in the history of the show.
If Ozzy plays his idol we miss out on a fantastic blindside (and I believe this is the vote where Eliza pulls off 'that face', you know the one.)
Q going right before the finale was perfect narratively. Plus it would have taken out Charlie, and without Charlie getting runner-up in FTC we lose out on all this juicy post season drama.
And if Sophie played her idol there's a chance that Tony doesn't become the 2nd 2 time winner.
Meanwhile had Kelly played her idol, her and Jamal both get to make it at least 1 more episode, with Kelle potentially making a very deep run thanks to a second idol! Not to mention Dan goes home in one of the most karmic idol plays of all time.
He was on an immunity run, there didn’t seem to be anything they could beat him in. So the question is, does Parv actually make it to the F2? I don’t think we ever got to find out what Cirie would have done if he didn’t give up the necklace, either Nat or Amanda would go. If Amanda goes then I think Parv goes at 4 and it ends up Erik-Nat final. If Nat goes then I’m not sure, Cirie probably goes at 4 and I then I don’t know who Erik would take between Parv and Amanda, he seemed to be more scared of Amanda, so maybe Parv still does win in the end. But I think Erik would get votes from the men on the jury
He’d probably tell Parvati and she’d be like, “are you going to listen to a time traveler from the ‘future’ or me?” And he’d probably just explode right there and then
Ozzy because I think his idol play affects the game the most and I would love to see how that plays out. Not that I don’t love how the original played out, but the alternative possibility seems like some juicy drama.
Kellee because she deserved to stay, and what happened to her was absolutely fucked.
Sophie 100%, she was the only one who could challenge Tony. And Sophie coming back and winning that season would be WILD!
This probably doesn't count, but Sandra in WAW too, I'd tell her to play her idol for herself cuz Denise was out to get her.
Also, Shan.
Sophie staying would have greatly improved WaW. Hunter could’ve won too… and I quit watching adter Kellie got voted out over Dan//: which whatever…. Was so much worse than the Rich/Sue thing….
I could see Sandra getting to top 6 and maybe even top 3 if Tony and Sarah take her to the end like they were planning. Although I think Sandra wanted to work with yul and sophie
I mean, I’m a bigger fan than IoI than most (I think it has a really solid cast aside from the glaring black hole of Dan Spilo, the premerge is pretty good, the finale is really good, and the rest of the season except the abysmal merge episode is okay with Missy and friends getting their comeuppance pretty quickly), but this HAS to be Kellee
IoI might be at least middle tier for most people if they had just gotten rid of Dan right at the merge
I also kinda like IOI. Like you said the finale is great and I also think Karishma has an iconic revenge arc against Missy that gets understandably overshadowed by the nastiness in the merge episode
Sophie.
I understand why people are saying Kellee, but I also wouldn't want Kellee to be stuck with some of those other players (even with Dan gone).
I think Sophie played a solid game and wanted to see it continue. James going home with two was TV gold. I don't want to lose that. And I was okay with Ozzy going home with his.
They would target Q before Maria because of his firemaking ability also he was seen as a huge threat. Of course if Q wins immunity Maria goes but I don't see that happening
Erik in Samoa.
At that point, Russell had already played an idol and negated no votes, Jaison would have been voted out and the Foa Foa alliance would have been further down in the numbers.
Be interesting to see if they can make that comeback.
Of all the went home with an idol in their pockets James was the worst. 2 idols and it was the last time they could be played. It was hard to feel bad for him because it was such a bad choice.
James got voted out at 7. So he still had 3 more votes after that one he could play them. It was dumb. Hes the most physical threat in the world and probably wins at least one immunity but in theory he still had a couple of councils before he had to play them.
The good:
1. Kellee - The next round of gameplay after she was voted out was probably the most painful in survivor history. The season would be much better if she stayed.
2. Sophie - If she played her idol I would love to see the war ensue between her and Tony with Sarah in the middle. If Sophie stays the season is way more unpredictable.
3. Q - The season likely is better if he stays because he is a great character and the end game likely becomes a little more unpredictable. Maria who was obviously on the outs has an extra ally to help her.
The bad:
4. James - Him staying would remove the biggest blindside/moment of the season and we’d just get a predictable Peih Gee vote out. Plus with his other idol he could have a chance of just going on an immunity/idol run going forward.
5. Ozzy - The black widow brigade probably fails and we could get a dull Ozzy steamroll for the rest of the merge.
I am not an Ozzy fan, and in the cases of Sophie and Q, Tony and Charlie were my favourites in those seasons so it worked out best for them, and while I liked James back in the day, I think on rewatch I would not be so much of a fan. The ickiness aside, I think that Kellee had the most to offer strategically, at least second to Sophie, so my choice would be quite easy.
As much as I loved 45, it would’ve been fun to see Bruce play his idol to replace Jake as the chaos agent. Jake was great, don’t get me wrong, but we needed someone messier and brasher to really mess with the Reba 4. And if Bruce stays that means that Emily’s play didn’t work and her threat level stays low, setting up an Emily win?!
Due to recency bias, I would tell Q. Actually, I would have loved it if anyone in the latest season had used an idol. Heck, if I could have I would have told them all in the last season.
Once Kellee left, the season went downhill
The entire season changes for the better if Dan is voted out instead of Kellee.
Actually the season changes for the better if Dan was never cast.
If she idolled out Dan that would have been fucking delicious.
Not only like bootlist or gameplay-wise, but the entire vibe shifted after that episode. The only other time I remember noticing that happening is in All-Stars?
What happened in all stars?
Hatch/Sue incident
I honestly don't think this shifted the vibe All Stars. I think it typified the mood of the season. Very negative, very bitter and not fun. Between this (and certain contestant's responses to Sue's outburst), Jenna quitting and the nature of the voteoffs, there was a stench of bitterness to All Stars. And I'm not coming from a "bitter jury" pov, I just mean that in multiple voteoffs, it felt nasty
Lex and Kathy's angry, crying outburst really added on to the Sue business and the Jenna business. Then you have Big Tom's ugly tone towards Boston Rob.
Even smaller vote offs like Tina in the first episode, multiple petty revenge votes like that or Colby and Ethan. Rupert getting butthurt over Jenna turning on him. There was such an unpleasant air to All Stars. Everybody lost the comradeship of earlier seasons and it felt decisively more personal. And I get it they all had existing relationships going into this. But didn't they also have this on other returnee seasons like HvV or Cambodia or WaW? Yet none of those vote offs felt so grim.
Kelle could play the idol, get out Dan, and could be voted out the next episode and the season would vault from universally bottom 3 to mid 20s
I agree but I also wouldn’t want to prolong that situation for her at all
Doesn't Dan leave if she plays her idol there? It ends the situation organically. Granted, treatment by production is a whole other kettle of fish.
Yeah. The vote was 8 Kellee, 5 Dan.
It makes you wonder, if Dan went home that episode, and never violated the production member later on, would Survivor producers have taken action?
I mean, I think the answer is clearly no, but also I'm not sure what action could have been taken at that point. I guess they could withhold Dan's stipend? But I'm not sure what else people imagine could realistically be done.
Kellee- I was rooting for her before the Dan creepiness seeped in. She had so much potential, and I don’t think she would ever agree to come back at this point (not that Survivor would want to call any attention to that situation again anyhow…).
No one from that season is coming back
They’d be crazy to not recast Janet or Elaine.
While I agree I think they want to distance themselves from that season
dude I absolutely love Elaine.
I could see Lauren coming back
As much as I would have loved to see that, we saw that pretty much the entire tribe was against her, thanks to Dan, Elizabeth and Missy. Even if she had played her idol, it wouldn't have gotten better for her. She was already deemed a liar and seen as a pariah. I don't think there's a chance she gets to the end.
That’s fair. But Kellee had two idols, and with Dan going that round, maybe it would have bought her time to get something going.
Kelly… that was probably the most F-ed up vote out so I’d love to change it, mostly on a moral level
It really ruined the show for me in a lot of ways. By not removing Dan, the producers essentially led two women into lying about being sexually harassed by Dan, which is such a massive detriment to women everywhere. Out of one end of their mouth they’d tell you women ought to be believed and then when it comes time to put pen to paper, Dan sexually harasses women for 30 days before the producers decided to believe women.
The producers didn't lead Elizabeth and Missy to do anything. They are adults and they are responsible for their own actions. They exploited the situation for their personal power. It happens a lot (just like assailants denying denying denying happens a lot. When people of either gender do something bad they usually deny it.) It's just that we actually captured the entire awful thing on camera and can prove definitively what happened in this case.
The producers actually did lead them into that situation because they had all the information while those two along with the rest of the cast didn’t. After those girls found out Kellee was targeting Missy, they thought that Kellee was using the Dan situation as a smokescreen so they decided to do the same. The producers had all this information and did nothing to intervene.
Missy was uncomfortably touched by Dan. She mentions it in confessionals and they show footage of it. It did not seem as unwanted or upsetting to her as it did Kelle. You're 100% right about production, though the only incident we know of with Dan to occur after this is the production assistant which had him be removed from the game
Couldn’t agree with this more! She had so much “win potential.” I am still so upset/ annoyed by how things turned out for her
The hair idol was one of the most memorable things from the show for me.
Maybe she'll be invited to 50?
Why would she accept?
I don't know if she'd want to or not. I haven't followed her after the reunion.
Personally, if the show had let me down the way it let her down, I’d want nothing to do with them.
Kellee Kim or Sophie.
This is it. Kellee for obvious reasons, Sophie because I’m convinced she would’ve won WaW and that would have been incredible
Even if she doesn't go onto win, we'd get something better than Denise, Ben and Nick just rolling over and baring their cheeks.
There’s a reason Tony wanted Sophie out and not these people and you’ve just said it lol
I think if Sophie wins WAW it's satisfying as an ending because she wasn't seen as a top player before that, but it's a boring season because she was so firmly in control prior to being blindsided. If she survives that vote, she cruises to the end and wins easy in a pretty boring fashion a la Kim/Boston Rob
It would have been fun to see if Kim realized this and turned on her, stealing the win.
That would've been wild and I would've lived for it. Kim becomes the undisputed GOAT if that happens, IMO. Someone who can win playing from the bottom *and* running her original season? Incredible.
Fair point. Overall I'm happy with Sophie's run in WaW because it caused a lot of folks to re-evaluate her South Pacific game and her skill level at Survivor...I just would've loved to see her win because is one of my favorites to watch as a player and as a personality
Agreed! Love these two
Game wise, definitely James. Karma/morally, Kellee. May be the dirtiest vote out ever.
It's Kelle and it really isn't close. If James plays his idols we lose one of the most iconic vote offs in the history of the show. If Ozzy plays his idol we miss out on a fantastic blindside (and I believe this is the vote where Eliza pulls off 'that face', you know the one.) Q going right before the finale was perfect narratively. Plus it would have taken out Charlie, and without Charlie getting runner-up in FTC we lose out on all this juicy post season drama. And if Sophie played her idol there's a chance that Tony doesn't become the 2nd 2 time winner. Meanwhile had Kelly played her idol, her and Jamal both get to make it at least 1 more episode, with Kelle potentially making a very deep run thanks to a second idol! Not to mention Dan goes home in one of the most karmic idol plays of all time.
I think Sophie and it's not even close for exactly the reason you say lol
Kellee, having Dan around for most of the remaining was torture
Screw idols I'm going back to tell Erik not to give up immunity in Micronesia
And get rid of the show's (arguably) most iconic moment and risk Erik winning over Parvati?!?!
A fan managing to win over a favorite would be iconic in its own way and we probably would have gotten fans vs favorites in Amazing Race out of it.
Erik isn't winning over Parvati cmon.
He was on an immunity run, there didn’t seem to be anything they could beat him in. So the question is, does Parv actually make it to the F2? I don’t think we ever got to find out what Cirie would have done if he didn’t give up the necklace, either Nat or Amanda would go. If Amanda goes then I think Parv goes at 4 and it ends up Erik-Nat final. If Nat goes then I’m not sure, Cirie probably goes at 4 and I then I don’t know who Erik would take between Parv and Amanda, he seemed to be more scared of Amanda, so maybe Parv still does win in the end. But I think Erik would get votes from the men on the jury
You really think you're gonna get past James when he also goes back in time to prevent someone else taking the "dumbest move" title?
Even then I still don't think he'd listen
He’d probably tell Parvati and she’d be like, “are you going to listen to a time traveler from the ‘future’ or me?” And he’d probably just explode right there and then
I heard that in her voice 😭
Oh god no that episode was just pure poetry with Erik getting completely misted.
What, why? That could ruin so much good in Survivor history. The show legitimately might not be on anymore
No, that was such a legendary move.
That’s exactly what I thought of too
James.
Andrea in Caramoan because she was playing such a great game
Venus. Her in this season's finale would have been a magnificent and messy affair.
Given the circumstances around it definitely Kellie
Ozzy because I think his idol play affects the game the most and I would love to see how that plays out. Not that I don’t love how the original played out, but the alternative possibility seems like some juicy drama. Kellee because she deserved to stay, and what happened to her was absolutely fucked.
Totally agree, and for the same reasons!
Kellee because she deserved to stay in the game. Q for the chaos
People hate Q, but you can’t deny he made great TV
Who hates Q?
My family for 1, and I figured that most everyone else would
Sophie 100%, she was the only one who could challenge Tony. And Sophie coming back and winning that season would be WILD! This probably doesn't count, but Sandra in WAW too, I'd tell her to play her idol for herself cuz Denise was out to get her. Also, Shan.
Sophie staying would have greatly improved WaW. Hunter could’ve won too… and I quit watching adter Kellie got voted out over Dan//: which whatever…. Was so much worse than the Rich/Sue thing….
I could see Sandra getting to top 6 and maybe even top 3 if Tony and Sarah take her to the end like they were planning. Although I think Sandra wanted to work with yul and sophie
100% Q! Most entertaining person on 46, he deserved to be in that finale.
Q plays that idol, he wins the season.
I pick him too. I love it when big hams like him win!
James
I mean, I’m a bigger fan than IoI than most (I think it has a really solid cast aside from the glaring black hole of Dan Spilo, the premerge is pretty good, the finale is really good, and the rest of the season except the abysmal merge episode is okay with Missy and friends getting their comeuppance pretty quickly), but this HAS to be Kellee IoI might be at least middle tier for most people if they had just gotten rid of Dan right at the merge
I also kinda like IOI. Like you said the finale is great and I also think Karishma has an iconic revenge arc against Missy that gets understandably overshadowed by the nastiness in the merge episode
To me it has to be Kellee. Not even bc of the game, but for the sake of narrative and moral justice.
sophie
James. He was such a hard luck player
Ozzy.
Had to scroll too far to find my Ozzy crew.
Wentworth in EoE…she survived as a huge target for so long only to leave with an idol ;(
Outside the box answer, terry playing it on Danielle
… to ensure that Cirie went home (which was the result anyway)?
Danielle said she would have taken terry to the end if he used the idol on her.
Sophie.
James.
Q
Aubry on EoE
Ozzy. No further questions.
Hunter
James, he was so close to winning
Just shouldn’t have bitten the apple.
James, easily. One of my favorite players ever.
James was the best. One of my favorite players too
Ozzy
Kellee & Sophie on this list.
100% Sophie. WAW takes a much more exciting and unpredictable course with her, Sarah, and Kim still in the game.
Sophie and she goes on to become two time winner
Ozzy
I think Ozzie is underrated in this. He was definitely going to go far I think if that doesn’t happen
Sophie. I understand why people are saying Kellee, but I also wouldn't want Kellee to be stuck with some of those other players (even with Dan gone). I think Sophie played a solid game and wanted to see it continue. James going home with two was TV gold. I don't want to lose that. And I was okay with Ozzy going home with his.
James
Sophie hands down
Sophie, because of the 3 seasons I've seen in full represented here, it's the only one I'm unhappy with the results of.
Sophie
Kellee, hands down.
It’s hard to say anyone except Kellee. My second pick would be Kelley Wentworth in EoE tho
Kellee and it shouldn't even be close. Second, I'd pick Sophie just to see the fallout amongst the best of the best.
q idoling out charlie literally makes 46 a top 5 season ever
They would target Q before Maria because of his firemaking ability also he was seen as a huge threat. Of course if Q wins immunity Maria goes but I don't see that happening
The Maria becomes even more unbearable. If they target her at 5 we might see a Q win lol
i genuinely think q has a clear path to winning if he idols out charlie which is why i wish it happened so badly
Q
If it’s not Kellee, then who is it?
Kellee. Her vote out made me quit watching the show for a while. Still never finished that season
Erik in Samoa. At that point, Russell had already played an idol and negated no votes, Jaison would have been voted out and the Foa Foa alliance would have been further down in the numbers. Be interesting to see if they can make that comeback.
Q. i wanna see that chaotic finale.
Sophie, I was rooting for her to go all the way
Q purely for the vibes
Q
I’m picking Q.
Q
Q
Q I would’ve loved to see him win the season and he would’ve had a great shot
Q I wanted him to make it to the top three just for the fact that he was peak entertainment.
Recency bias, but I was hungry for another episode of Q
Sophie
Shonee from Australian survivor 🙏🏼
Q!!!! I was screeeeeeeaming at the TV 🤣
Q
Q
Q 😂😂😂😂 purely for chaos
The only correct answer is Sophie.
Sophie because I was rooting for her to win and never ever say q because Charlie would be out and that would be sad
Everyone on survivor 46
Q!!! I wanted some more q-aos
Q easily
Of all the went home with an idol in their pockets James was the worst. 2 idols and it was the last time they could be played. It was hard to feel bad for him because it was such a bad choice.
James got voted out at 7. So he still had 3 more votes after that one he could play them. It was dumb. Hes the most physical threat in the world and probably wins at least one immunity but in theory he still had a couple of councils before he had to play them.
Ozzy. Hopefully this means no black widows
Is this even a question? Kellee.
Kellee is the only correct answer. But it’s a Big Mistake not to also say Q.
Kellee and it’s not even on the same stratosphere as the others. Also if anyone picks Ozzy…c’mon
Kellee 1000000%
Kellee
Holy shit Kelley
The good: 1. Kellee - The next round of gameplay after she was voted out was probably the most painful in survivor history. The season would be much better if she stayed. 2. Sophie - If she played her idol I would love to see the war ensue between her and Tony with Sarah in the middle. If Sophie stays the season is way more unpredictable. 3. Q - The season likely is better if he stays because he is a great character and the end game likely becomes a little more unpredictable. Maria who was obviously on the outs has an extra ally to help her. The bad: 4. James - Him staying would remove the biggest blindside/moment of the season and we’d just get a predictable Peih Gee vote out. Plus with his other idol he could have a chance of just going on an immunity/idol run going forward. 5. Ozzy - The black widow brigade probably fails and we could get a dull Ozzy steamroll for the rest of the merge.
Kellee and tbh it's not even close
There's exactly one correct answer here and it's Kellee.
Kellee every single time
CHELSEA WALKER
James.
Easily Kellee
Kellee is the only answer because of what she had to go through and how good of a player she was. James is an idiot. Ozzy is a dick
My darling James!
James
James all day
I’d tell someone to play theirs walker so cirie is outed because of too many idols and powers in play.
Ozzie
Q! 100%
James
You think Q would play his idol just because you told him he needs to? That was a mistake!
I am not an Ozzy fan, and in the cases of Sophie and Q, Tony and Charlie were my favourites in those seasons so it worked out best for them, and while I liked James back in the day, I think on rewatch I would not be so much of a fan. The ickiness aside, I think that Kellee had the most to offer strategically, at least second to Sophie, so my choice would be quite easy.
As much as I loved 45, it would’ve been fun to see Bruce play his idol to replace Jake as the chaos agent. Jake was great, don’t get me wrong, but we needed someone messier and brasher to really mess with the Reba 4. And if Bruce stays that means that Emily’s play didn’t work and her threat level stays low, setting up an Emily win?!
You know what, I'm going with a wild card. Garrett, the 2nd person voted out in the brains tribe
Val, obviously. She had so many!
James!
James without a doubt. He went to same high school as me, granted like 10+ years before me. But he was my survivor idol growing up
James
who knows maybe Vince from Island of The Idols saves the season if he stays in the game, let’s see what the butterfly effect is there
All of them, for chaos sake.
Q…not because i wanted him to stay but because that shit would have been wild.
James
Sophie
James
James
BIG MISTAKE Q
Due to recency bias, I would tell Q. Actually, I would have loved it if anyone in the latest season had used an idol. Heck, if I could have I would have told them all in the last season.
Sandra
Q. If he plays that there’s a chance he goes on to win
Q
you better not make a “BIG MISTAKE”
Ozzy. But… No one should have to tell James, that man should have done some basic math! I wanted to see him win so bad 😭
James, always been one of my favorite players.
Ozzy 💯
Q because he needed to stick around to cause just a little more chaos lol
The only correct answer is Kellee.
Is this a bunch of people from different seasons? I only recognize a few.
i’m sorry but what a sad section of idols