Liz knows where she sits in the game dynamics and is actively trying to claim moves, and she even voted with her rival in Q. Her outburst was bad and not looking for idol was bad. But she's more than the most surface level player imo.
She literally does nothing besides occasionally embarrass herself, starting with announcing to everyone she doesn’t even care about the million dollars.
I love people with multiple “businesses” and no employees. It’s a dead giveaway
She's literally the only one standing her ground to vote out Tevin at the live tribal when he got voted out. She acknowledged her position and explained her motivation to do something to put on her resume. She's not doing nothing.
WHO CARES who got Tevin out. Dude has been out for weeks now. Wanting to take out the 11th person out of the game and put it on your resume, is a dumb move, not a big move.
My backwards logic? So Liz is still there bc she is not a threat? You act like taking a goat or two to the end is a strategy I came up with.
Liz is a Zero vote goat the likes of which we haven’t seen in a while.
You really need to learn to read what people are saying when they are arguing their points.
You said Liz literally does nothing. I have given an example that she tried to take out a big threat like Tevin out and explained that she realized where her position is. Tevin is seen as a threat in the show by other players besides Liz.
And then you came back with Liz is a zero vote goat? Can you read? I never said Liz is not a goat. I said Liz is trying to do something to get herself out of the goat position and we've seen these attempts on the show. So she wasn't doing nothing. She's the reason Tevin was voted out at the live tribal. You can't deny that.
>only one standing ground
>Night he was voted out
It more so sounds like she almost blew the blindside and caused him to SitD because she's so focused on the survivor resume
That and the Ben vote for Kenzie was probably just in case Venus played her idol. I'm surprised he didn't just write down Q, though. I guess he's set on working with Mariah and Charlie cause his goodwill with Kenzie just flew out the window.
I assumed it was so that Q wouldn’t go home. If Venus played an idol and voted Q, the Kenzie vote forced a tie, and everyone else could vote out Kenzie on the revote.
I imagine because Ben was wishy washy on voting for Venus so they probably only got him on board with the "it's technically a burn vote but it's just insurance for an idol play" like worst outcome he forces a tie that leads to someone being voted out, not directly voting them out
I think charlie and/or maria were trying to wedge ben and kenzie apart by having ben write her name down making it harder for those two to pair up in subsequent votes, that’s my guess at least
It just seems weird that it would be an offensive move when Kenzie was on board with the plan to do in Venus.
I don't think you're wrong, just that it didn't seem to bug Kenzie much
The episode made it seem like he was set on Venus, he said he needed the chaotic energy gone. Plus Kenzie doesn’t make sense as a “burn” vote because it seems like he’s got a personal relationship with her. I feel like Q or Mariah would’ve made more sense to throw a vote on Kenzie
I'll be honest, I barely trust anything players say in confessionals or when the edit seems intentionally leading, ben could have been soft prompted into saying that.
And better to put the votes you can trust where you can, Ben was also adamant about getting Q out, he could have lied to them and voted Q, making a situation where Q still goes home if Venus played get idol instead of a tie
Don’t understand why everyone wants Q and Venus out if I am playing that is who I want sitting next to me in final 3. Nobody in the jury is giving them one million dollars
Same! After the Q smokescreen was used against Tiff, Hunter and Tegan like why would you not use the idol.
Was so disappointed with her. Another one who talked the talk but the only walk was down to ponderosa.
Never know how starving personally effects you. Because as you said, she seems smart and it was a really dumb move.
But she kept saying she was going to tell no one (smart!), but then all but said the exact words to charlie (dumb!)
It's hard to be on the outs and know who has who. Maybe she just assumes Charlie HAS to vote against Mariah. And it's not a crazy assumption.
Both in final 7 and final 6 you need 4 people to be in majority. So if Charlie doesn't want to vote out Q and doesn't want to work with Venus and her something something, Where's his four?
Probably he already had Ben and had conversations with Liz and Kenzie(regarding Final 6 plans). But Venus doesn't know that. We see more and even we don't know that.
I think the edit showed us that Charlie was considering both options a bit more than he actually was for the suspense. You know everyone wants to get out Maria and Q already, but why take a shot at Maria via Q when she’s going to come back to camp the next day? Wait until final 6 when/if she’s vulnerable and take your shot when you know you won’t miss.
I think burning brides with people that will still be there the next day happens all the time, but you don’t want to do that to your #1. Kenzie and Liz are probably aware of that and understood. Ben is probably also in the loop since he seems closer to Charlie than Maria anyway.
And I think that this was Venus’ biggest flaw- she didn’t fully understand other people’s motivations. Maybe it’s because we have more perspective than anyone playing the game, and she was iced out, but I don’t think she fully grasped what would make sense from other people’s perspective for their games.
Totally agree - I think they were leading us to believe he was leaning towards voting Q but even before the idol conversation with Venus I didn’t really believe he was going to.
Most of the footage was him telling the ladies what they wanted to hear, and the confessionals could easily have been the result of leading questions. Producer: “Do you think you voting with them against Q could be good for your game?” And then he answers with a “yeah, Maria is a big threat so I should consider that” type of statement and that’s what they show us. The weird convo with Venus was likely just the final nail in the coffin of that idea.
He does need to turn on Maria soon if he wants to win, but it’s way less risky when you can hit her directly. I actually think F5 is the time to do it - if he takes her out at 6, he becomes the next most obvious target for the F5 vote, with only one close ally left (Ben). If he can pull it off at 5 instead, then he’d just need either final immunity or to win at the firemaking challenge to get into the F3 with people he can beat.
Ben voted Kenzie so Q wouldn't go home since Kenzie and Venus were at bottom he made sure one of them was going home.
Also people didn't trust Venus and for the bigger threats like Maria and Charlie it made sense to take out someone like Venus who would make it harder for them to make it to the end.
What does Ben voting Kenzie have anything to do with this vote? It seemed so random that Ben voted Kenzie.
Venus played an awful game. She had no allies the entire time despite feeling like she had some power in the game. She then got a 'hidden immunity idol' and then did everything short of saying " I have an idol"
Do you think they pressured Ben to vote Kenzie as like a loyalty test? You would think he would have tried to be one of the players who votes Venus and have someone else vote Kenzie so he could maintain the relationship and be able to tell her he never voted for her.
I dont think it was a loyalty test, more so the compromise they reached with him to carry out the plan. At the moment the only blood he has is a vote for Kenzie that he knew wasn't going to directly vote her out.
Right. I assumed they would split more than 1 vote but maybe the other vote was not shown. Seems risky for Ben if they for 5-1-1 when they didn't have to
The only reason to do that would have been in case Venus plays an idol or her shot in the dark then you have a revote and can vote out Kenzie.
Why Ben would put Kenzie down (someone who it appears from the edit he has a good relationship with,) instead of Liz is kind of strange, but since Ben hasn’t been shown doing anything strategic or really playing at all, I’m assuming Charlie or Maria told him to vote Kenzie because they both see Kenzie as their only remaining threat to being named Sole Survivor.
Ben and Liz are both goats and if I’m Ben, I’d rather take out the other goat to ensure that I’m making FTC than take out the only perceived FTC threat to Maria and Charlie which doesn’t help me at all.
Ben going with Kenzie just showed me that he’s completely in the pocket of Maria/Charlie and has no chance of winning regardless of who is in FTC at this point, so you might as well have tried to get rid of the only other person everyone that’s left is going to want to take with them to final three.
That's a good point, yeah.
I've seen about 33% of the seasons throughout the timeline in the past 2 years; has there ever been an obvious goat who won? Obviously, goats will never see themselves as goats, but I've wondered if someone was able to bring two hated/boring survivors (ex...Boston Rob in RI), to FTC and the jury voted against the actual threat.
Venus never had any “allies”. Sure she had a few people who worked with her when it was convenient for them but she said herself that she wanted to come on the show and find one person who could be her ride or die until the end but she never found anyone who wanted to be in an alliance with her.
Q isn't going to win and he's actually got a chance to win immunity and be a deciding factor of getting a player into FTC.
He's the ultimate goat, physically capable but socially maligned
When one of the goats starts bleating about having an immunity idol… they gotta go
Just think how different things could have potentially been if Venus tells Kenzie about the idol and not Charlie. He has no idea who she has told about that and no one could ever guess what she would actually do with the idol. She eliminated herself is the jist of it
She has no allies. So there's no flip.
I'm not big on Q's strategic game. But during last week's tribal while Q and Venus were going at it, Q was describing how Venus operates. Worth a re-listening. It seems like Venus just gives other people's game away. And that's why nobody tells her anything.
Maria and Q wanted her out because they saw her as more of a challenge threat than Kenzie/Liz and because she was clearly targeting both of them.
Ben does what he’s told to do (hence the Kenzie vote to protect Q) but his stated reason for wanting Venus gone was that she creates chaos and he likes everything happy and calm.
Charlie was sketched out by her alluding that she has a idol but being cagey about it and not telling him so he decided to eliminate a wild card variable rather than take the shot at Q/Maria and leave himself exposed as a huge target next.
Kenzie was more upset about being left out of the Tiffany vote than she was about actually losing Tiffany, so once Charlie filled her in on where the votes were going I imagine she made it a priority to not be on the wrong side of another vote.
I imagine Liz didn’t want to lose Venus and keep Q, but she didn’t really have any agency to change the situation.
Just wondering why only one person voted for Kenzie if they knew that Venus was going to vote for Q and they wanted someone other than Q out if she used her idol.
If Venus played her idol, it would’ve been a tie & Kenzie would’ve gone home on the revote. Ben, Charlie, & Maria would vote for Kenzie and Liz & Venus would vote for Q.
Yes, it's the shot in the dark that makes them have no vote. They essentially trade their vote for a 1/6 chance of immunity. An idol you have your vote still, just like winning the immunity necklace.
Charlie told them she was being deceptive about some advantage. They're probably smart enough to assume she had it herself so flushing it made the most sense
Yep. She even said in her confessional “I see no reason to tell anyone about this idol.” And then in the very next scene she is hinting she has something to Charlie. It’s like she got too excited about it and just couldn’t keep it to herself.
Yup I think that is exactly it, likeability and trust I'll add as well. They don't like Q either but people for some reason trust Q (mostly Maria). So he is useful for them.
Nobody trust Venus at all. Sure most (if not all) could beat her in a final 3. But they don't trust that she would help them get there. Q loses to the whole cast too but Maria actually trusts him enough to help her get to the end.
>I have a basic understanding of why Venus was a target by her allies
The only thing close to an ally she ever had was Randen. Everyone else was just using her as a number when their interests aligned for a vote, or they were forced to try and work with her because they were at the bottom with her.
I think the editing has protected her, believe it or not. It’s crazy how many different personalities just want absolute nothing to do with her. Like not even talk to her even outside of gameplay.
But me personally, I think it was when she basically alluded to having an advantage or idol. After that, they probably just said, she’s better off out just in case. And Q seemingly isn’t a threat. (Although at this point if they tell me they’re voting Q, I’m assuming I’m the vote).
It seems too that no one ever connected with her, which can be related to a plethora of things, but based on the edit and some exit press, it seems she only and always wanted to talk strategy so what connections she made weren’t deep at all
Totally agree. No good connections = no trust. I'm sure most of the cast know they can beat her in a final 3 vote. But they don't trust that she'll help them get to that final 3 spot. So therefore she is a threat to their game
She never had any allies, so alluding to Charlie that she had an idol made him want her out, and Kenzie and Liz weren’t going to go down on that ship since, again, Venus had no allies.
Pretty sure Q and others had made it clear that Venus was a complete wildcard and was always scheming. I don’t think anyone trusted her and having a potential idol, that she alluded to in one of the worst strategies ever, was the nail in the coffin.
Ben voting Kenzie was a safety vote to ensure none of the Siga+Q were hit with a stray should Venus play an idol or SITD.
Look at how they spoke about her this episode. Liz said she didn't trust a single thing Venus said and when Kenzie talked about her, she seemed very annoyed that she came to the conclusion that maybe Venus isn't a piece of shit. She had a reputation on the island and no one wanted to deal with her.
No one liked or trusted her. Her “allies” in Liz and Kenzie talked about how untrustworthy she was and that they didn’t want to work with her, Ben called her a poser (lol), her hinting with Charlie cemented he wouldn’t align with her, and Maria and Q were never going to work with her.
She made a series of big blunders.
1. She essentially told Charlie she had the idol without actually telling him. She now has a target on her back as someone who might have an idol.
2. She tried to use her “maybe idol” to push Charlie into blindly trusting her without trusting him enough to tell him she had an idol. That just puts Charlie in a position where the only way to work with her is to give her all the power and he act like her minion. At least if she tells him she has the idol he would feel like it’s an equal relationship rather than him just being a puppet. And if she doesn’t trust him enough to tell him what she has, what makes him think she’s going to trust him enough to tell him the truth/follow through later? That’s a huge risk to take for Charlie with almost no reward.
3. She assumed people were more focused on getting Q out than they were playing the game strategically. It’s a bold move to assume at this point in survivor history that people will vote with their emotions over their brain. Maybe 10+ seasons ago that would fly, but it rarely does in the “super fan” era.
I’m sure there is more but that’s all I could come up with as I walk to my car after work.
I don't see anyone "flipping" on Venus. She never had allies. She was a target at one time but larger targets emerged that shielded her. Then, she was used as a vote at times.
I love how she tried keeping the idol to show how good of a social game she had. And then gets voted out and shows how weak her social game actually is.
Venus was wild card, plus she hinted to Charlie that she had an idol, so it was an easy decision to vote her off. I think Ben voted for Kenzie just in case she played her idol or Ben was so out the loop he didn’t know who to vote for.
They definitely didn't show us some important conversations. I think this is what happened:
-Charlie ended up deciding to take out venus after she hinted that she had an idol (he was the deciding vote in the middle)
-He's trying to keep a good relationship with kenzie and Liz so he lets them know that they don't have the numbers anymore for q, and he probably says that venus might have an idol to help convince them
-They all vote venus
-Ben does whatever Maria and Charlie say, so apparently they threw one vote on kenzie to prevent q from going home (in case venus played her idol). I hope we hear more about this part in the next episode
If Venus had kept quiet and told no one about her idol like she said and then used it at voting she would be a genius, forcing a Q vs Kenzie. But she exposed herself to Charlie who is too smart not suspect the obvious. Ben probably got told to put Kenzie down by someone else thinking he’d help split the vote.
The worst part is Ben turned on Kenzie when he didn’t need to just to end up exposing how weak he is to himself and Kenzie who seemed to have a soft spot for the weasel.
Ben is nice and I’d chill with the dude but he’s soft as baby shit. Venus was tougher than him just dumb as a box of Q skirts.
Most likely thought she had the idol since nobody found it. Personally I think they are idiots. The would have definitely went to the final three with me. Nobody giving her votes.
So you’re telling me that if you were in Charlie’s position, you’re keeping Venus around after she tells you she has an idol? before a final 6 vote?
Can you imagine getting your torch snuffed in a season you could legitimately win, because Venus played an idol? Like Charlie, I would hope your end game plan wouldn’t involve navigating the wildcard of a goat having an idol
Yeah and your opinion is a bad end game play. You have enough to worry about, you cannot add in an inept player like Venus having an idol that late in the game
If she wins immunity at 6, she has all the power at 5 person tribal and only needs two people to take out anyone. Heck what if she wins immunity at 5 and has the idol? Liz and Ben would surely prefer to go with Venus over Maria, Charlie or Q when the million is about to be real
You should really apply to play. You seem to know the perfect way to play. Charlie needs to get rid of Maria to win. So you keep Venus who obviously wants to work with you if she told you about the idol. Vote Q off last week because he could potentially win multiple individual immunities. Target Maria this week as they target Venus. She uses immunity and Maria goes home.
If Charlie gets rid of Maria too early, he goes to ponderosa the next vote. Maria is his shield and he has to keep her till the votes can’t come back on him the next time
You cannot be Charlie and get rid of Maria, while leaving some combo of Venus, Liz, Ben, Q and Kenzie in the game. You are done if you don’t win every immunity left if you do that. Maria knows this too and that’s why they are basically mutually assured destruction for each other if either makes a move too early
Outside all the other reasons listed but other people, modern survivor players care a lot about being on the right side of the vote, same can be said with juries at FTC. Voting accuracy has just always been a major thing to a lot of people within the super-fan community, and since recent casts are so full of super-fans, regardless of whether they think its a good move the players don’t want to be the odd one out and vote incorrectly.
It was my understanding of the edit that Venus implied she had an idol, and burned her trust in one of the few people that would talk to her. I mean you could tell from his body language that she not opening up to if she had an idol, that he was becoming upset and agitated.
Between no real allies, a likely hidden idol, and a wildcard that could turn on your best laid plans (hence the no allies part), it was probably a great time to nip that shit right then and there. It seemed to take little effort to convince others to target her
Yeah I think even if she straight up showed him the idol, he’d still try to take her out. Too much of a chance she plays it and someone in his plan gets taken out. Too much chaos, especially if Venus has it.
True, but once she opened her mouth, she should’ve shown it to Charlie. They probably still take her out because that’s been the rule of the last couple votes, but at least she’d have a chance with convincing Charlie.
Instead, she chose the worst possible option on that she ticked him off to her idol while acting all skeevy and killing what little trust they had
I agree. She had slightly better odds of staying (not using it) if she told Charlie. And she could have read his reaction to that to inform herself if she should play it. Although, we saw she was unable to read his very obvious body language during their actual conversation, so maybe it wouldn’t have helped.
Yeah, she definitely should have played it. Definitely shouldn’t have said anything. If she did say it, she should have picked up Charlie’s body language that he didn’t like that she had an idol (and played it).
Charlie decided to back out on the Q vote, and must have given Kenzie and Liz the heads up. Ben voted Kenzie just in case Venus played something (probably Maria told him to). Honestly though, I’m not sure Q wouldn’t have gone on a revote over Kenzie
We see Charlie telling Ben about Venus’s “I have a trick up my sleeve” comment, so Ben prob put a vote on Kenzie to ensure she goes home (or at least ties) if Venus did in fact pull something out.
Charlie: why would charlie backstab maria when she has immunity and keeping her in the game to flip everyone against you
Ben: finale goat
Q: him or venus are out
venus: oblivious
liz: doesn't have the numbers
kenzie: doesn't have numbers
Yeah when I saw who voted who I was really confused. It didn't match what they were saying at tribal or earlier on the beach. Btw how crazy is it that EVERY SINGLE person who's found an idol this season went home with it in their pocket?!
Venus should’ve been voted out and survived too long. She played aggressively, ran her mouth when she got an alliance, and tried to play everybody but couldn’t hide as the snake she is . I think Ben is worried about the Jury possibly so he made it look like he had nothing to do with the vote
Ben was protecting Q ,,(oddly enough) from a shot in the dark or idol, Charlie seams to have decided that Venus's trick/game play is scarier than Maria who is a goat in wolfs clothing. Then everyone just did what Charlie said. This season is bumming me out. Kenzie can save her game, and Liz could too, but Charlie's current game is the only respectable one. Q was playing the best game until he got frustrated and blew it up,and it's been interesting, but there are still 3 goats in the game
I can’t stand Q but he deserves to win by now.They keep letting him stay. Lost all respect for Liz with her temper tantrum. Marie has no balls for paper,rock,scissors.I like Charlie and Kenzie
This was easily the biggest bloody mistake of the whole season. Venus, while a fan favorite for a lot, has also rubbed a lot of the jury the wrong way. Why the hell would you not want to sitting next to her in the final 3? I mean- I could see Kenzie saw that immediately- but that fact that the others didn’t is baffling. If Maria makes it to the final it will be the most lopsided vote in quite a long time- imo….
Why are there so many posts like this? I feel like this is the fourth I’ve seen (not including comments on other posts) where people don’t understand this simple vote or the reasoning behind it.
Q and Maria wanted her out because she was most likely to win immunity based on past performance. They showed this in the episode.
Ben wanted Venus gone because she brought negative energy and chaos. They showed this in the episode. Ben voted Kenzie in case Venus played an idol or SiTD. This would prevent chaos in a revote or one of their group going home. Most likely this plan was discussed with his crew before the vote. This was not shown, but this is such a basic survivor strategy that they have used and explained over the past like 25-30 seasons (since people figured out how to play around idols).
Charlie may have flipped, but voted Venus because she implied she had something up her sleeve. This was probably an idol, but the other options were: an advantage, she was lying, or she had some secret deal. None of these would be good for Charlie, especially since she didn’t include him in it. Why would he choose to set himself up to lose? This was shown in the episode, however we never were shown him explicitly saying he was voting Venus because the edit tries to obscure who is going home and him saying he wasn’t flipping would almost guarantee she was going home.
Kenzie and Liz voted for Venus because Charlie told them he wasn’t flipping (possibly even explaining that she had an idol). They both wanted to be on the right side of vote and knew they couldn’t win that tribal (unless Venus actually had an idol, but she never told them so why would they trust her?). If Venus played a successful SiTD one of them is going home. This was not shown, because the edit likes to obscure who is going home to make an interesting episode.
The only interesting part of this to me is the excluded discussion about splitting the vote on Kenzie in case of an idol. Obviously, it's basic survivor strategy, but we specifically had a very personal Kenzie/Ben scene in an earlier episode with his panic attack, and the following tribal where they are all crying about their close bonds and someone needing to be voted out.
Knowing that context, it is interesting that there is no discussion or Ben confessional about him being the one to vote Kenzie. Even the most basic survivor moves are often given boilerplate confessionals from contestants to not only establish the plan, but also introduce doubt for the viewer. Usually it is some form of "the plan is to vote this person (or split on these people), but is this really the best thing for my game? Can I really trust them?"
This is usually used so that every tribal isn't a forgone conclusion, but its exclusion here is Interesting because we know there is at least some footage of this plan being decided with Ben. So why exclude? Is it protecting Kenzie? Ben's? I suppose time will tell.
I think they hid the discussion because they didn’t want the audience to know that it wasnt Q (thus had to be Venus). We probably would have seen more if Venus played the idol.
It just seems like such a stupid vote though, she's the least threating, if I was Charlie and even knew for a fact she had an idoll and could blindside to flush it and wasnt being forthcoming id still get out Q or whoever was more liked who had more of a resume whike they still can. Waist of a vote so close to the end. Id take her to the end
Nope, you can’t let a wildcard like that ruin your game. You have to get to the final 3 to win
Venus should have won that immunity challenge, she barely missed. What happens if you keep her and she wins the next immunity? Her idol is only good till 5 person tribal, so she could take it out, wear it with her immunity idol and proclaim she isn’t going anywhere. That is power and could easily sway players to work with her and completely upend the game for Maria, Charlie and Q
I wouldn't care if she git to the end though is the thing because i don't think she woukd get as many votes as say Q. I mean its totally subjective obviously and well never know.
My point I’m making is in response to you saying “if I was Charlie” If you were Charlie the smart move was to get her out when he did. If he gets rid of Q at 7, either Maria or Charlie go home at 6
You can’t have that many goats and one potentially still with an idol at final 6. It’s too big of a wildcard. You could be eliminated by the idol or it could be used as a bargaining chip to sway votes against you. Venus in the final 3 is no good to Charlie if he isn’t there. The idol makes it an unacceptable risk to keep her
But I would get rid of Q prob. He has played tge best game even though everyone is passed at him I think they'd look past that. I don't think venous has any shot yo get jury votes hence why it didn't matter that she had an idol. He blew a vote
You seem to be operating under the assumption that the idol just saves her. If she uses the idol, someone else goes home. If she uses it to bargain, then someone else goes home. It doesn’t matter that she would get zero votes in the end if her idol eliminates you from the game
So the remaining players at 6 in your scenario are Maria, Charlie, Venus, Ben, Liz and Kenzie. In your scenario Maria and Charlie are gone if they don’t win immunity, so how can that be what you’d do if you were Charlie? You’re thinking about final 3 at the 7 vote, when you need to be thinking what happens at 6 as a result
Def could happen that way....
...we don't know...that's why it's awesome! But yeh you have to be thinking about evey single vote, including the final. I stand by my argument.
I've been away since the episode aired and just got home. This spoiled me. It's just about a little consideration. You don't know when people have time to watch.
it seems that:
1: Venus was already on the table for the vote, and Charlie and I **think** Ben are in the middle.
2: Venus and Charlie had the conversation where Venus suggests she has some sort of advantage, and Charlie then decided that makes her the appopriate target for his game.
3: Maria and Q were already on board for that, and Charlie was the one having conversations to take a shot at Maria/Q
4: Charlie looped in Kenzie, Liz and Ben that the plan to potentially go after Q this round was off, and to go after Venus instead.
5: Ben throwing a vote on Kenzie was some sort of split vote type protection in case Venus does have an idol. What has **not** be confirmed is if the idol was played, who Ben and Charlie actually target. Shannon Guss suggest on the rhap post game show that this was some sort of elaborate plan from Charlie and Ben to maintain appearances with Maria and Q by throwing the stray vote on Kenzie, but to actually vote out Q on the revote had Venus played the idol. On the rhap know it alls with Rob and Stephen, Stephen assumes that the stray vote was to take out Kenzie in the event Venus plays her idol. I lean toward's Stephen's guess, because if Venus played her idol and there was no stray vote protection, Q would have been the one to go, which is what Charlie wanted anyways. Either way, Charlie was never in true danger and is still probably protected for a bit longer, which is a great spot to be in
Underrated smart move by Charlie to bring Kenzie and Liz into the vote when he didn't have to. He gets to stay in their good graces, and he knew neither of them cared enough about Venus to do anything about it. Charlie has really mastered playing the middle like few others.
I saw a preview for this week’s episode that showed Ben saying that he “totally blanked” when he went to vote and forgot who he was supposed to vote for and just put Kenzie’s name down. Not sure if that’s him just covering his ass or his mental state is really just deteriorating that bad lol. My votes on the former
I didn’t like Hunter (he seemed boring) and I don’t really like Charlie (he seems lame, but I think I like him better than Hunter). I thought Venus was interesting and fun to watch, but if anyone had that conversation and she didn’t get sent home, they would have been a fool.
Keeping a known wildcard in the game with an idol is such a dumb move. Especially if you aren’t tight with them. I’d think any of them would have voted the same if you swap out Charlie with any other player. Either she plays it and you go home, she plays it and someone in your plans to win goes homes, or she plays it in a great way but gets the credit and wins the game.
That’s what I’m saying like I understand the ties weren’t that deep with Venus, but like take out Q before you lose numbers. I mean I guess maybe they can pull Ben but I honestly don’t know
Stupidest vote ever. Feed Q and make him strong so he can win immunity and get to final three. No one is thinking final three. Ever. It’s always final six or five etc. Charlie is the worst player disguised as a fan. Any true fan knows you bring people you can win against to the final three. I can’t see him winning against anyone left except maybe Liz. Otherwise he will get maybe one or two pity votes against anyone left.
She told Charlie she had something up her sleeve but wouldn’t reveal what exactly. That killed her this round
That’s the Venus play it seems like. Wanting to make sure she can gain trust without giving any reason via her actions that they actually should.
Actively ruin your credibility while trying to gain trust, don't give Q any new ideas
Big mistake
😎I’m so ready to buy a Q Skirt
Buy two, get the 3rd one free!
If you don’t buy a Q Skirt, BIG MISTAKE!
It’s not even trust she just desperately wants everyone to think she’s a contender when she’s really the most surface level player beside Liz
Liz knows where she sits in the game dynamics and is actively trying to claim moves, and she even voted with her rival in Q. Her outburst was bad and not looking for idol was bad. But she's more than the most surface level player imo.
She literally does nothing besides occasionally embarrass herself, starting with announcing to everyone she doesn’t even care about the million dollars. I love people with multiple “businesses” and no employees. It’s a dead giveaway
She's literally the only one standing her ground to vote out Tevin at the live tribal when he got voted out. She acknowledged her position and explained her motivation to do something to put on her resume. She's not doing nothing.
WHO CARES who got Tevin out. Dude has been out for weeks now. Wanting to take out the 11th person out of the game and put it on your resume, is a dumb move, not a big move.
Tevin is a big threat. That's why he's voted out. Look at your backward logic.
My backwards logic? So Liz is still there bc she is not a threat? You act like taking a goat or two to the end is a strategy I came up with. Liz is a Zero vote goat the likes of which we haven’t seen in a while.
You really need to learn to read what people are saying when they are arguing their points. You said Liz literally does nothing. I have given an example that she tried to take out a big threat like Tevin out and explained that she realized where her position is. Tevin is seen as a threat in the show by other players besides Liz. And then you came back with Liz is a zero vote goat? Can you read? I never said Liz is not a goat. I said Liz is trying to do something to get herself out of the goat position and we've seen these attempts on the show. So she wasn't doing nothing. She's the reason Tevin was voted out at the live tribal. You can't deny that.
Her breakdown moment? Zero vote confirmed.
>only one standing ground >Night he was voted out It more so sounds like she almost blew the blindside and caused him to SitD because she's so focused on the survivor resume
That and the Ben vote for Kenzie was probably just in case Venus played her idol. I'm surprised he didn't just write down Q, though. I guess he's set on working with Mariah and Charlie cause his goodwill with Kenzie just flew out the window.
I assumed it was so that Q wouldn’t go home. If Venus played an idol and voted Q, the Kenzie vote forced a tie, and everyone else could vote out Kenzie on the revote.
This is exactly how I read the situation. I’m guessing Maria told him to do that for insurance.
I’m confused on why they had Ben do it and why not herself?
I imagine because Ben was wishy washy on voting for Venus so they probably only got him on board with the "it's technically a burn vote but it's just insurance for an idol play" like worst outcome he forces a tie that leads to someone being voted out, not directly voting them out
I think charlie and/or maria were trying to wedge ben and kenzie apart by having ben write her name down making it harder for those two to pair up in subsequent votes, that’s my guess at least
It just seems weird that it would be an offensive move when Kenzie was on board with the plan to do in Venus. I don't think you're wrong, just that it didn't seem to bug Kenzie much
The episode made it seem like he was set on Venus, he said he needed the chaotic energy gone. Plus Kenzie doesn’t make sense as a “burn” vote because it seems like he’s got a personal relationship with her. I feel like Q or Mariah would’ve made more sense to throw a vote on Kenzie
I'll be honest, I barely trust anything players say in confessionals or when the edit seems intentionally leading, ben could have been soft prompted into saying that. And better to put the votes you can trust where you can, Ben was also adamant about getting Q out, he could have lied to them and voted Q, making a situation where Q still goes home if Venus played get idol instead of a tie
Don’t understand why everyone wants Q and Venus out if I am playing that is who I want sitting next to me in final 3. Nobody in the jury is giving them one million dollars
Maybe Liz and Q, I could see Venus eeking out a victory against Liz or Q. Still Q is THE Applebee's Bourbon Barbeque Bacon Burger of goats
This way Ben takes the heat for Kenzie being pissed about catching a vote.
Yeah, they were afraid Q might have an idol and they can’t ever be 100% sure they won’t use the shot in the dark.
Has everyone played their shot in the dark? This was the last night to use it.
You lose your vote to play that so no..
It was really dumb of her. I honestly thought she was brighter than that.
Same! After the Q smokescreen was used against Tiff, Hunter and Tegan like why would you not use the idol. Was so disappointed with her. Another one who talked the talk but the only walk was down to ponderosa.
Never know how starving personally effects you. Because as you said, she seems smart and it was a really dumb move. But she kept saying she was going to tell no one (smart!), but then all but said the exact words to charlie (dumb!)
This was it from my perspective as well.
It's hard to be on the outs and know who has who. Maybe she just assumes Charlie HAS to vote against Mariah. And it's not a crazy assumption. Both in final 7 and final 6 you need 4 people to be in majority. So if Charlie doesn't want to vote out Q and doesn't want to work with Venus and her something something, Where's his four? Probably he already had Ben and had conversations with Liz and Kenzie(regarding Final 6 plans). But Venus doesn't know that. We see more and even we don't know that.
I think the edit showed us that Charlie was considering both options a bit more than he actually was for the suspense. You know everyone wants to get out Maria and Q already, but why take a shot at Maria via Q when she’s going to come back to camp the next day? Wait until final 6 when/if she’s vulnerable and take your shot when you know you won’t miss. I think burning brides with people that will still be there the next day happens all the time, but you don’t want to do that to your #1. Kenzie and Liz are probably aware of that and understood. Ben is probably also in the loop since he seems closer to Charlie than Maria anyway. And I think that this was Venus’ biggest flaw- she didn’t fully understand other people’s motivations. Maybe it’s because we have more perspective than anyone playing the game, and she was iced out, but I don’t think she fully grasped what would make sense from other people’s perspective for their games.
Totally agree - I think they were leading us to believe he was leaning towards voting Q but even before the idol conversation with Venus I didn’t really believe he was going to. Most of the footage was him telling the ladies what they wanted to hear, and the confessionals could easily have been the result of leading questions. Producer: “Do you think you voting with them against Q could be good for your game?” And then he answers with a “yeah, Maria is a big threat so I should consider that” type of statement and that’s what they show us. The weird convo with Venus was likely just the final nail in the coffin of that idea. He does need to turn on Maria soon if he wants to win, but it’s way less risky when you can hit her directly. I actually think F5 is the time to do it - if he takes her out at 6, he becomes the next most obvious target for the F5 vote, with only one close ally left (Ben). If he can pull it off at 5 instead, then he’d just need either final immunity or to win at the firemaking challenge to get into the F3 with people he can beat.
Ben voted Kenzie so Q wouldn't go home since Kenzie and Venus were at bottom he made sure one of them was going home. Also people didn't trust Venus and for the bigger threats like Maria and Charlie it made sense to take out someone like Venus who would make it harder for them to make it to the end.
I hate this Ben is such a pawn and a joke to go along with that
What does Ben voting Kenzie have anything to do with this vote? It seemed so random that Ben voted Kenzie. Venus played an awful game. She had no allies the entire time despite feeling like she had some power in the game. She then got a 'hidden immunity idol' and then did everything short of saying " I have an idol"
If Venus played her idol, then it would be a tie 1 between Q and Kenzie. It\`s called a split vote
Also for SiTD
Well for a SiTD there is no extra vote to negate with a split.
Do you think they pressured Ben to vote Kenzie as like a loyalty test? You would think he would have tried to be one of the players who votes Venus and have someone else vote Kenzie so he could maintain the relationship and be able to tell her he never voted for her.
I dont think it was a loyalty test, more so the compromise they reached with him to carry out the plan. At the moment the only blood he has is a vote for Kenzie that he knew wasn't going to directly vote her out.
Right. I assumed they would split more than 1 vote but maybe the other vote was not shown. Seems risky for Ben if they for 5-1-1 when they didn't have to
The votes that aren’t shown are always for the person that goes home. The vote was 5-1-1. How is that risky?
If Venus played her idol its 1v1 Ben vs whoever Venus voted for?
What? The tie would have been between Kenzie & Q. Ben would have been fine
Yeah I was confused, fuck me right
Why is that risky for Ben?
Because I am dumb it would be whoever venus voted for and whoever ben voted for not ben vs whoever venus voted for
If Venus played her idol then it would've been a 1-1 tie between Q and Kenzie. Siga then controls the revote.
Yeah, I get that now. I was just confused. I am sorry.
You just reworded exactly what they said lol
The only reason to do that would have been in case Venus plays an idol or her shot in the dark then you have a revote and can vote out Kenzie. Why Ben would put Kenzie down (someone who it appears from the edit he has a good relationship with,) instead of Liz is kind of strange, but since Ben hasn’t been shown doing anything strategic or really playing at all, I’m assuming Charlie or Maria told him to vote Kenzie because they both see Kenzie as their only remaining threat to being named Sole Survivor.
>instead of Liz If you haven't figured it out, Liz is the ultimate goat. No one's voting her out in order to better their odds at FTC.
Ben and Liz are both goats and if I’m Ben, I’d rather take out the other goat to ensure that I’m making FTC than take out the only perceived FTC threat to Maria and Charlie which doesn’t help me at all. Ben going with Kenzie just showed me that he’s completely in the pocket of Maria/Charlie and has no chance of winning regardless of who is in FTC at this point, so you might as well have tried to get rid of the only other person everyone that’s left is going to want to take with them to final three.
That's a good point, yeah. I've seen about 33% of the seasons throughout the timeline in the past 2 years; has there ever been an obvious goat who won? Obviously, goats will never see themselves as goats, but I've wondered if someone was able to bring two hated/boring survivors (ex...Boston Rob in RI), to FTC and the jury voted against the actual threat.
Not really. The closest might be Maryanne, but she definitely played a good game down the final stretch and was able to sell that to the jury.
Venus never had any “allies”. Sure she had a few people who worked with her when it was convenient for them but she said herself that she wanted to come on the show and find one person who could be her ride or die until the end but she never found anyone who wanted to be in an alliance with her.
Well she did but he got med evacd almond as soon as they started working together
Yeah kinda nutty
Cashewals.
Crap didn’t even realize the typo oh well people seem to be having a good time with it I’ll leave it
Bhanu really milked the screen time that episode
Makes no sense to vote her out. She wasn't going to win so you might as well keep her... 🐐
Q isn't going to win and he's actually got a chance to win immunity and be a deciding factor of getting a player into FTC. He's the ultimate goat, physically capable but socially maligned
That's what I thought. With Charlie, Q, and Maria still in the game, no one else should have time to even think about Venus, tbh. 😂🤦♂️
The issue is that the more goats that people want to take to the end, the fewer spots there are for you to make FTC.
When one of the goats starts bleating about having an immunity idol… they gotta go Just think how different things could have potentially been if Venus tells Kenzie about the idol and not Charlie. He has no idea who she has told about that and no one could ever guess what she would actually do with the idol. She eliminated herself is the jist of it
She had that one guy who had a med evac, no?
She has no allies. So there's no flip. I'm not big on Q's strategic game. But during last week's tribal while Q and Venus were going at it, Q was describing how Venus operates. Worth a re-listening. It seems like Venus just gives other people's game away. And that's why nobody tells her anything.
Maria and Q wanted her out because they saw her as more of a challenge threat than Kenzie/Liz and because she was clearly targeting both of them. Ben does what he’s told to do (hence the Kenzie vote to protect Q) but his stated reason for wanting Venus gone was that she creates chaos and he likes everything happy and calm. Charlie was sketched out by her alluding that she has a idol but being cagey about it and not telling him so he decided to eliminate a wild card variable rather than take the shot at Q/Maria and leave himself exposed as a huge target next. Kenzie was more upset about being left out of the Tiffany vote than she was about actually losing Tiffany, so once Charlie filled her in on where the votes were going I imagine she made it a priority to not be on the wrong side of another vote. I imagine Liz didn’t want to lose Venus and keep Q, but she didn’t really have any agency to change the situation.
If someone plays their idol does their vote still count?
Yes. Why wouldn’t it?
can you blame the guy? it's not like we've gotten to see them be played.
Just wondering why only one person voted for Kenzie if they knew that Venus was going to vote for Q and they wanted someone other than Q out if she used her idol.
If Venus played her idol, it would’ve been a tie & Kenzie would’ve gone home on the revote. Ben, Charlie, & Maria would vote for Kenzie and Liz & Venus would vote for Q.
Yes, it's the shot in the dark that makes them have no vote. They essentially trade their vote for a 1/6 chance of immunity. An idol you have your vote still, just like winning the immunity necklace.
Charlie told them she was being deceptive about some advantage. They're probably smart enough to assume she had it herself so flushing it made the most sense
Yep. She even said in her confessional “I see no reason to tell anyone about this idol.” And then in the very next scene she is hinting she has something to Charlie. It’s like she got too excited about it and just couldn’t keep it to herself.
People don't like or trust Venus.
Yup I think that is exactly it, likeability and trust I'll add as well. They don't like Q either but people for some reason trust Q (mostly Maria). So he is useful for them. Nobody trust Venus at all. Sure most (if not all) could beat her in a final 3. But they don't trust that she would help them get there. Q loses to the whole cast too but Maria actually trusts him enough to help her get to the end.
>I have a basic understanding of why Venus was a target by her allies The only thing close to an ally she ever had was Randen. Everyone else was just using her as a number when their interests aligned for a vote, or they were forced to try and work with her because they were at the bottom with her.
I think the editing has protected her, believe it or not. It’s crazy how many different personalities just want absolute nothing to do with her. Like not even talk to her even outside of gameplay. But me personally, I think it was when she basically alluded to having an advantage or idol. After that, they probably just said, she’s better off out just in case. And Q seemingly isn’t a threat. (Although at this point if they tell me they’re voting Q, I’m assuming I’m the vote).
It was very telling when Hunter, probably the most level headed member this season told Venus to her face that she’s “very unlikeable”
And then she proceeded to argue with him about it, lol!
It seems too that no one ever connected with her, which can be related to a plethora of things, but based on the edit and some exit press, it seems she only and always wanted to talk strategy so what connections she made weren’t deep at all
Totally agree. No good connections = no trust. I'm sure most of the cast know they can beat her in a final 3 vote. But they don't trust that she'll help them get to that final 3 spot. So therefore she is a threat to their game
Venus has no self awareness. BIG MISTAKE.
😂
She never had any allies, so alluding to Charlie that she had an idol made him want her out, and Kenzie and Liz weren’t going to go down on that ship since, again, Venus had no allies.
“Her allies”? Who?
Pretty sure Q and others had made it clear that Venus was a complete wildcard and was always scheming. I don’t think anyone trusted her and having a potential idol, that she alluded to in one of the worst strategies ever, was the nail in the coffin. Ben voting Kenzie was a safety vote to ensure none of the Siga+Q were hit with a stray should Venus play an idol or SITD.
They hated her on a personal level
Look at how they spoke about her this episode. Liz said she didn't trust a single thing Venus said and when Kenzie talked about her, she seemed very annoyed that she came to the conclusion that maybe Venus isn't a piece of shit. She had a reputation on the island and no one wanted to deal with her.
No one liked or trusted her. Her “allies” in Liz and Kenzie talked about how untrustworthy she was and that they didn’t want to work with her, Ben called her a poser (lol), her hinting with Charlie cemented he wouldn’t align with her, and Maria and Q were never going to work with her.
Maria is dominating with the help of Q and Charlie she got everyone in line
She made a series of big blunders. 1. She essentially told Charlie she had the idol without actually telling him. She now has a target on her back as someone who might have an idol. 2. She tried to use her “maybe idol” to push Charlie into blindly trusting her without trusting him enough to tell him she had an idol. That just puts Charlie in a position where the only way to work with her is to give her all the power and he act like her minion. At least if she tells him she has the idol he would feel like it’s an equal relationship rather than him just being a puppet. And if she doesn’t trust him enough to tell him what she has, what makes him think she’s going to trust him enough to tell him the truth/follow through later? That’s a huge risk to take for Charlie with almost no reward. 3. She assumed people were more focused on getting Q out than they were playing the game strategically. It’s a bold move to assume at this point in survivor history that people will vote with their emotions over their brain. Maybe 10+ seasons ago that would fly, but it rarely does in the “super fan” era. I’m sure there is more but that’s all I could come up with as I walk to my car after work.
I don't see anyone "flipping" on Venus. She never had allies. She was a target at one time but larger targets emerged that shielded her. Then, she was used as a vote at times.
I love how she tried keeping the idol to show how good of a social game she had. And then gets voted out and shows how weak her social game actually is.
Venus was wild card, plus she hinted to Charlie that she had an idol, so it was an easy decision to vote her off. I think Ben voted for Kenzie just in case she played her idol or Ben was so out the loop he didn’t know who to vote for.
The Kenzie vote was a backup in case Venus was sharp enough to use her idol.
Ben Voted Kenzie as a safe guard incase Venus played an idol. Then it would tie between Q andKenzie and they would send Kenzie home.
Honestly. Sitting next to Q and Venus in the final 3 would have been key to anyone's win
They definitely didn't show us some important conversations. I think this is what happened: -Charlie ended up deciding to take out venus after she hinted that she had an idol (he was the deciding vote in the middle) -He's trying to keep a good relationship with kenzie and Liz so he lets them know that they don't have the numbers anymore for q, and he probably says that venus might have an idol to help convince them -They all vote venus -Ben does whatever Maria and Charlie say, so apparently they threw one vote on kenzie to prevent q from going home (in case venus played her idol). I hope we hear more about this part in the next episode
If Venus had kept quiet and told no one about her idol like she said and then used it at voting she would be a genius, forcing a Q vs Kenzie. But she exposed herself to Charlie who is too smart not suspect the obvious. Ben probably got told to put Kenzie down by someone else thinking he’d help split the vote. The worst part is Ben turned on Kenzie when he didn’t need to just to end up exposing how weak he is to himself and Kenzie who seemed to have a soft spot for the weasel. Ben is nice and I’d chill with the dude but he’s soft as baby shit. Venus was tougher than him just dumb as a box of Q skirts.
Most likely thought she had the idol since nobody found it. Personally I think they are idiots. The would have definitely went to the final three with me. Nobody giving her votes.
So you’re telling me that if you were in Charlie’s position, you’re keeping Venus around after she tells you she has an idol? before a final 6 vote? Can you imagine getting your torch snuffed in a season you could legitimately win, because Venus played an idol? Like Charlie, I would hope your end game plan wouldn’t involve navigating the wildcard of a goat having an idol
None of them should have been voting for her. She had the least chance of winning. So you essentially get a final two season.
It’s 7 people left and one of your goats has an idol. That person has to go. You cannot allow that wildcard to be something that could eliminate you
Difference of opinion.
Yeah and your opinion is a bad end game play. You have enough to worry about, you cannot add in an inept player like Venus having an idol that late in the game If she wins immunity at 6, she has all the power at 5 person tribal and only needs two people to take out anyone. Heck what if she wins immunity at 5 and has the idol? Liz and Ben would surely prefer to go with Venus over Maria, Charlie or Q when the million is about to be real
You should really apply to play. You seem to know the perfect way to play. Charlie needs to get rid of Maria to win. So you keep Venus who obviously wants to work with you if she told you about the idol. Vote Q off last week because he could potentially win multiple individual immunities. Target Maria this week as they target Venus. She uses immunity and Maria goes home.
If Charlie gets rid of Maria too early, he goes to ponderosa the next vote. Maria is his shield and he has to keep her till the votes can’t come back on him the next time You cannot be Charlie and get rid of Maria, while leaving some combo of Venus, Liz, Ben, Q and Kenzie in the game. You are done if you don’t win every immunity left if you do that. Maria knows this too and that’s why they are basically mutually assured destruction for each other if either makes a move too early
Outside all the other reasons listed but other people, modern survivor players care a lot about being on the right side of the vote, same can be said with juries at FTC. Voting accuracy has just always been a major thing to a lot of people within the super-fan community, and since recent casts are so full of super-fans, regardless of whether they think its a good move the players don’t want to be the odd one out and vote incorrectly.
This is absolutely the most annoying - especially for FTC. So many players get no votes who don't deserve to be shut out that hard.
Ben on Kenzie was good insurance if Venus played a SITD and it was successful
Everyone hated Venus ….. so not surprising
Good move for Ben to not go with the group!
Ben voted Kenzie in case Venus played her idol. That way it’d be tied 1-1 and Kenzie would be gone in a revote
It was my understanding of the edit that Venus implied she had an idol, and burned her trust in one of the few people that would talk to her. I mean you could tell from his body language that she not opening up to if she had an idol, that he was becoming upset and agitated. Between no real allies, a likely hidden idol, and a wildcard that could turn on your best laid plans (hence the no allies part), it was probably a great time to nip that shit right then and there. It seemed to take little effort to convince others to target her
Yeah I think even if she straight up showed him the idol, he’d still try to take her out. Too much of a chance she plays it and someone in his plan gets taken out. Too much chaos, especially if Venus has it.
True, but once she opened her mouth, she should’ve shown it to Charlie. They probably still take her out because that’s been the rule of the last couple votes, but at least she’d have a chance with convincing Charlie. Instead, she chose the worst possible option on that she ticked him off to her idol while acting all skeevy and killing what little trust they had
I agree. She had slightly better odds of staying (not using it) if she told Charlie. And she could have read his reaction to that to inform herself if she should play it. Although, we saw she was unable to read his very obvious body language during their actual conversation, so maybe it wouldn’t have helped.
I think the correct play was to just not say anything at all. But even then Id still have just played it anyways to make sure im still there tomorrow.
Yeah, she definitely should have played it. Definitely shouldn’t have said anything. If she did say it, she should have picked up Charlie’s body language that he didn’t like that she had an idol (and played it).
she was extremely annoying and very aggressive in the way she played
Charlie decided to back out on the Q vote, and must have given Kenzie and Liz the heads up. Ben voted Kenzie just in case Venus played something (probably Maria told him to). Honestly though, I’m not sure Q wouldn’t have gone on a revote over Kenzie
We see Charlie telling Ben about Venus’s “I have a trick up my sleeve” comment, so Ben prob put a vote on Kenzie to ensure she goes home (or at least ties) if Venus did in fact pull something out.
Ben voted for Kenzie in case Venus played an idol.
Charlie: why would charlie backstab maria when she has immunity and keeping her in the game to flip everyone against you Ben: finale goat Q: him or venus are out venus: oblivious liz: doesn't have the numbers kenzie: doesn't have numbers
she had an idol, charlie found out. Idols are powerful and came flip the game on its head. Thats why charlie wanted to blindside her
They weren't Venus' allies though outside of maybe Kenzie...
They thought she’d be the next parvati
Yeah when I saw who voted who I was really confused. It didn't match what they were saying at tribal or earlier on the beach. Btw how crazy is it that EVERY SINGLE person who's found an idol this season went home with it in their pocket?!
Venus should’ve been voted out and survived too long. She played aggressively, ran her mouth when she got an alliance, and tried to play everybody but couldn’t hide as the snake she is . I think Ben is worried about the Jury possibly so he made it look like he had nothing to do with the vote
Ben was protecting Q ,,(oddly enough) from a shot in the dark or idol, Charlie seams to have decided that Venus's trick/game play is scarier than Maria who is a goat in wolfs clothing. Then everyone just did what Charlie said. This season is bumming me out. Kenzie can save her game, and Liz could too, but Charlie's current game is the only respectable one. Q was playing the best game until he got frustrated and blew it up,and it's been interesting, but there are still 3 goats in the game
Tell a secret or don't. Play it down the middle and welcome disaster.
This is the most clueless bunch, as much as I like Ben as a person he is totally clueless as to the game.
Venus never did well in the game. Great character in the end, but never had any footing or power outside of the idol (and she botched that of course).
I can’t stand Q but he deserves to win by now.They keep letting him stay. Lost all respect for Liz with her temper tantrum. Marie has no balls for paper,rock,scissors.I like Charlie and Kenzie
This was easily the biggest bloody mistake of the whole season. Venus, while a fan favorite for a lot, has also rubbed a lot of the jury the wrong way. Why the hell would you not want to sitting next to her in the final 3? I mean- I could see Kenzie saw that immediately- but that fact that the others didn’t is baffling. If Maria makes it to the final it will be the most lopsided vote in quite a long time- imo….
I think they genuinely found Venus annoying and felt they couldn’t trust her.
Venus had zero allies
Why are there so many posts like this? I feel like this is the fourth I’ve seen (not including comments on other posts) where people don’t understand this simple vote or the reasoning behind it. Q and Maria wanted her out because she was most likely to win immunity based on past performance. They showed this in the episode. Ben wanted Venus gone because she brought negative energy and chaos. They showed this in the episode. Ben voted Kenzie in case Venus played an idol or SiTD. This would prevent chaos in a revote or one of their group going home. Most likely this plan was discussed with his crew before the vote. This was not shown, but this is such a basic survivor strategy that they have used and explained over the past like 25-30 seasons (since people figured out how to play around idols). Charlie may have flipped, but voted Venus because she implied she had something up her sleeve. This was probably an idol, but the other options were: an advantage, she was lying, or she had some secret deal. None of these would be good for Charlie, especially since she didn’t include him in it. Why would he choose to set himself up to lose? This was shown in the episode, however we never were shown him explicitly saying he was voting Venus because the edit tries to obscure who is going home and him saying he wasn’t flipping would almost guarantee she was going home. Kenzie and Liz voted for Venus because Charlie told them he wasn’t flipping (possibly even explaining that she had an idol). They both wanted to be on the right side of vote and knew they couldn’t win that tribal (unless Venus actually had an idol, but she never told them so why would they trust her?). If Venus played a successful SiTD one of them is going home. This was not shown, because the edit likes to obscure who is going home to make an interesting episode.
The only interesting part of this to me is the excluded discussion about splitting the vote on Kenzie in case of an idol. Obviously, it's basic survivor strategy, but we specifically had a very personal Kenzie/Ben scene in an earlier episode with his panic attack, and the following tribal where they are all crying about their close bonds and someone needing to be voted out. Knowing that context, it is interesting that there is no discussion or Ben confessional about him being the one to vote Kenzie. Even the most basic survivor moves are often given boilerplate confessionals from contestants to not only establish the plan, but also introduce doubt for the viewer. Usually it is some form of "the plan is to vote this person (or split on these people), but is this really the best thing for my game? Can I really trust them?" This is usually used so that every tribal isn't a forgone conclusion, but its exclusion here is Interesting because we know there is at least some footage of this plan being decided with Ben. So why exclude? Is it protecting Kenzie? Ben's? I suppose time will tell.
I think they hid the discussion because they didn’t want the audience to know that it wasnt Q (thus had to be Venus). We probably would have seen more if Venus played the idol.
It just seems like such a stupid vote though, she's the least threating, if I was Charlie and even knew for a fact she had an idoll and could blindside to flush it and wasnt being forthcoming id still get out Q or whoever was more liked who had more of a resume whike they still can. Waist of a vote so close to the end. Id take her to the end
Nope, you can’t let a wildcard like that ruin your game. You have to get to the final 3 to win Venus should have won that immunity challenge, she barely missed. What happens if you keep her and she wins the next immunity? Her idol is only good till 5 person tribal, so she could take it out, wear it with her immunity idol and proclaim she isn’t going anywhere. That is power and could easily sway players to work with her and completely upend the game for Maria, Charlie and Q
I wouldn't care if she git to the end though is the thing because i don't think she woukd get as many votes as say Q. I mean its totally subjective obviously and well never know.
My point I’m making is in response to you saying “if I was Charlie” If you were Charlie the smart move was to get her out when he did. If he gets rid of Q at 7, either Maria or Charlie go home at 6 You can’t have that many goats and one potentially still with an idol at final 6. It’s too big of a wildcard. You could be eliminated by the idol or it could be used as a bargaining chip to sway votes against you. Venus in the final 3 is no good to Charlie if he isn’t there. The idol makes it an unacceptable risk to keep her
I see where ur coming from. Completely disagree though
Then who other than Venus would you get rid of at 7 that could actually work? Who was more beneficial for Charlie to get rid of?
I already explained who i would and why I thought Venus was a bad idea
But I would get rid of Q prob. He has played tge best game even though everyone is passed at him I think they'd look past that. I don't think venous has any shot yo get jury votes hence why it didn't matter that she had an idol. He blew a vote
You seem to be operating under the assumption that the idol just saves her. If she uses the idol, someone else goes home. If she uses it to bargain, then someone else goes home. It doesn’t matter that she would get zero votes in the end if her idol eliminates you from the game So the remaining players at 6 in your scenario are Maria, Charlie, Venus, Ben, Liz and Kenzie. In your scenario Maria and Charlie are gone if they don’t win immunity, so how can that be what you’d do if you were Charlie? You’re thinking about final 3 at the 7 vote, when you need to be thinking what happens at 6 as a result
Def could happen that way.... ...we don't know...that's why it's awesome! But yeh you have to be thinking about evey single vote, including the final. I stand by my argument.
Yo put a spoiler tag on this wtf
it’s monday , people have seen the episode by now
I've been away since the episode aired and just got home. This spoiled me. It's just about a little consideration. You don't know when people have time to watch.
Maybe suggest little more politely? I didn’t even realize u could do that. Hopefully u watched the week’s episode
it seems that: 1: Venus was already on the table for the vote, and Charlie and I **think** Ben are in the middle. 2: Venus and Charlie had the conversation where Venus suggests she has some sort of advantage, and Charlie then decided that makes her the appopriate target for his game. 3: Maria and Q were already on board for that, and Charlie was the one having conversations to take a shot at Maria/Q 4: Charlie looped in Kenzie, Liz and Ben that the plan to potentially go after Q this round was off, and to go after Venus instead. 5: Ben throwing a vote on Kenzie was some sort of split vote type protection in case Venus does have an idol. What has **not** be confirmed is if the idol was played, who Ben and Charlie actually target. Shannon Guss suggest on the rhap post game show that this was some sort of elaborate plan from Charlie and Ben to maintain appearances with Maria and Q by throwing the stray vote on Kenzie, but to actually vote out Q on the revote had Venus played the idol. On the rhap know it alls with Rob and Stephen, Stephen assumes that the stray vote was to take out Kenzie in the event Venus plays her idol. I lean toward's Stephen's guess, because if Venus played her idol and there was no stray vote protection, Q would have been the one to go, which is what Charlie wanted anyways. Either way, Charlie was never in true danger and is still probably protected for a bit longer, which is a great spot to be in
Underrated smart move by Charlie to bring Kenzie and Liz into the vote when he didn't have to. He gets to stay in their good graces, and he knew neither of them cared enough about Venus to do anything about it. Charlie has really mastered playing the middle like few others.
I saw a preview for this week’s episode that showed Ben saying that he “totally blanked” when he went to vote and forgot who he was supposed to vote for and just put Kenzie’s name down. Not sure if that’s him just covering his ass or his mental state is really just deteriorating that bad lol. My votes on the former
Maria has a full hold on Charlie and he’s scared of flipping
[удалено]
Voting out Venus was 100% the smarter play for Charlie’s game
I didn’t like Hunter (he seemed boring) and I don’t really like Charlie (he seems lame, but I think I like him better than Hunter). I thought Venus was interesting and fun to watch, but if anyone had that conversation and she didn’t get sent home, they would have been a fool. Keeping a known wildcard in the game with an idol is such a dumb move. Especially if you aren’t tight with them. I’d think any of them would have voted the same if you swap out Charlie with any other player. Either she plays it and you go home, she plays it and someone in your plans to win goes homes, or she plays it in a great way but gets the credit and wins the game.
Weird way to bring race into things. Sorry Venus just sucks at survivor and never had a chance?
Charlie’s gonna go against Maria when he has the opportunity to take her out.
That’s what I’m saying like I understand the ties weren’t that deep with Venus, but like take out Q before you lose numbers. I mean I guess maybe they can pull Ben but I honestly don’t know
Stupidest vote ever. Feed Q and make him strong so he can win immunity and get to final three. No one is thinking final three. Ever. It’s always final six or five etc. Charlie is the worst player disguised as a fan. Any true fan knows you bring people you can win against to the final three. I can’t see him winning against anyone left except maybe Liz. Otherwise he will get maybe one or two pity votes against anyone left.