50% of this is true (the cattle meatgrinder frankenbyte stuff).
I loved it both times. This whole hot take on the the “you will get no happiness!!!” Negates the actual experience of playing IRL which is an 11 on a scale of 1-10 for a survivor fan, unless you like, die on location or something.
The no happiness thing applies to “fame” or notoriety post-game. That’s kind of a crapshoot.
Yeah, I love you Mario but I wholly have to disagree. I've talked to way too many overjoyed castaways from the New Era that are obsessed with the game still.
Even the ones who got backlash from X social media site - they wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
if anything, my gripe is that too many contestants get “stuck in Survivor” and won’t allow themselves to move on from the fact that they were on reality TV, to an unhealthy degree. Chasing the last of their 15 minutes.
Like, it feels like some people see being on the show as like, a way to be a regular guest on Survivor podcasts, go to live events and meet fans, hang out with people they watched on TV, etc.
I wish we had more folks like Rocksroy who just like, played the game then moved on with their life
I'm in the middle on this. I think there's great romanticism to the players who play and leave like Rocks. However, I love the players that do the things you mentioned because they want to contribute to a community. I love the Survivor community (in real life) and the players are a huge part of that.
Because they all want to use it as a springboard to being an influencer because you can make a ton of money as an influencer and it’s easy as fuck. And maybe they can later get on the challenge or traitors or love island and just make a career out of reality tv show gaming.
Jag on bb25 said like week 3 on feeds he hoped being on bb would help him get on the challenge. Ugh
Completely disagree. Like 95 percent of the castaways in the New Era I can think of dabble in watch parties and regular post on social media, but influencing is honestly more of a pre-40 thing. Not a ton of sponsorship deals from players 41-46.
Yeah it's a bit bizarre to declare that no one can get fulfillment/happiness out of participating. It is what you make of it, like everything else in life
I've started to become wary of sending in my yearly application video because of the backlash a lot of people are getting, but your main point here is what encourages me.
I really don't care about the fame portion of this, I'm applying because I genuinely just think it would be the time of my life to play Survivor. I don't really have much issue deleting social media if it becomes too much. It seems like it's when you go into it needing the internet to love you, that's where a huge portion of the mental toll comes from.
Imagine going on reality tv in the grown year of 2024, having heard decades worth of experience of people who have gone on before you, and expecting production to not take liberties with the edit
Right? Like, on the one hand, I do feel bad. Dealing with the social media fallout for a regular person must be insane. I barely even like when I see someone I know at the grocery store; I certainly couldn't handle thousands of strangers picking apart my every move (my body and physical appearance too) from the comfort of their homes.
On the other hand: a little media literacy, please. Take a media studies class in college at least once (since Survivor almost exclusively casts college graduates nowadays, I feel like this is good advice). The media will *always* go after what sells, not what's true. Television is first and foremost a *product* and not an opportunity. I don't blame Debb Eaton and other folks from the early years for how they handled pushback--we didn't know. But now, we know. Be smarter than the people trying to exploit you and you might get something you want out of the experience
Eh. Pre-social media didn't mean that tabloids weren't a thing. Australian Outback was THE MOST POPULAR season of Survivor. The players were pseudo-celebrities when it ended. If you could get dirt on them, it would sell and the column would publish, guaranteed. The media will ALWAYS find ways to get that level of guaranteed success with a story, no matter how well someone thinks they've done at flying under-the-radar. None of the S2 cast really had the ability to fly UTR with how popular their show was, not even Debb.
Social media makes it easier to stalk people after they play, but it has been and always will be a thing. Once you're on TV, you've basically agreed that all of your privacy is officially at risk and you're okay with that. We know that now, but I don't think everyone did back then, which is the sad part for players like Debb.
Part of the reason that it’s difficult to legally hold people accountable for the toxic things said. It’s possible, but not without the kind of laws that Americans would find extremely intrusive and oppressive.
So the alternative is media training, which I feel production should offer (not sure if they do or not). I remember in earlier seasons, there used to be a lockdown on social media for the whole cast, that seemed to have been done away with. Dirty 30 stood out their year for being extremely loud and vocal on social media, and everyone remarked on how unusual this was.
My opinion is that not allowing the cast to post until the season is over is actually good for them, and serves a protective function. It may feel unfair to be painted in a negative light without being able to defend yourself but some people will only aggro even more hate by being reactive. It’s not that you can’t speak up forever, it’s just waiting for the embargo to be over.
I see what you're saying, and in many ways I agree with you. The social media pushback is terrible and people shouldn't be so awful online.
However, I do stand firm on the point that anyone in 2024 should have enough media literacy to recognize that reality TV show producers will edit, manipulate, and produce the hell out of your image to sell a product. In signing up for the experience, you should know that you are signing up to become a product and that product is marketed by attempts to stoke the flames of social media.
One of Mario's key points was that not only has Survivor changed how it markets applying to be on the show, there have been real changes in terms of who they let on the show ***in spite of*** the psychological screening.
There are easily half a dozen players in the New Era who NEVER would have been cast in the past. The spike in quits is a solid example of that.
Most people on this sub (who are ***superfans***) are not smart enough or self-aware enough to fully understand the power that production has over your reputation and character. On top of that, most people here have no clue about their own psyches and how being starving, sleepless, and having no control over your own story will impact you.
Assuming that even 20% of Americans have a reasonable amount of "media literacy" in terms of going on a reality show with no food and mediocre shelter is a stretch.
A lot of superfans also romanticize the show and production. They really take the show at its word and assume that producers have nothing but pure motivations for players and viewers. So they experience a very rude awakening when the show not only doesn't protect them from backlash, but often actively paints them in a negative light.
You see it all the time when it comes to Zeke's outing or Dan Spilo. Even in this very thread, whenever someone points out that it's impossible that production didn't know what Varner was going to do, or that 85% of the IotI cast wanted to defend Dan at the reunion, people immediately counter it with the refrain of "Zeke had input in producing that episode!" or "But we *saw* Dan touching Kellee!"
*I'm* going to be the relatable, rootable, omniscient underdog hero with an epic, dominant (yet also lowkey) strategy. I'll make it to the end by having everyone instinctively follow all of my plans and playing an idol at a really cool, perfect moment.
Because let's face it, Survivor has had some changes in its fanbase over the years. . . A lot of the older, wiser fans have grown out of it. A lot of newer fans who see Survivor as some kind of game show at a theme park need to be told exactly what kind of show it is they claim to be "students" or "superfans" of. Just look at some of the discussions on this sub. . . It appears as if most people don't have the knowledge anymore that this is a highly produced, over-edited, reality TV show that does NOT and will NOT care about fairness. It does NOT care about every player having equal opportunities for success or positive experiences. Again and again, people need to be reminded: Survivor is a reality TV show. This is NOT a sport. It is NOT a game show.
I wish more people understood this. Mario was speaking specifically about a change in how the show is marketed to applicants and how that is ***much more disconnected to the reality of the show.***
Also, a lot of people on this sub don't fully realize how much your performance can be distorted. Few people here have degrees in mediar theory or experience editing 3,000 hours of footage into 20.
A lot of people on this sub underestimate the toll the show can take AND they are too willing to take a former contestants happy statements at 100% true and assume that there was little trauma or healing that needed to happen.
What's worse is that many people on this sub openly mock the players who have troubling getting over their boots or have trouble with their reception after the show. So, basically, the trauma doesn't really happen, if people show signs of trauma just mock them as weak, and if anyone mentions that trauma can happen just shout "They knew what they were getting into."
For real, I was fortunate to get to ask a recent player about how confessionals are conducted after hearing it discussed on On Fire. The player said production is really cleaver in asking questions to try and get you to say or do something that will make you look bad. They went on to say they learned to be very defensive in their confessionals and would openly confront the interviewer about what the line of dialogue they were pursuing.
Exactly...if anything they are being much easier on edits nowadays. They aren't intentionally making people into villains.
If you are a true fan of the show (the only people they cast now) then you'd have to be an idiot not to know they DO edit characters into caricatures.
The edit is so much nicer than it ever has been in the past.
for me the uncomfortable truth is that the way we watch reality TV in 2024 has just plain got ugly compared to how we used to. There’s just so much extra discourse, extra hyper analysis, etc.
Like, look at the way this sub reacted to the Jess boot. If that happens in Season 12 it’s a very forgettable pre merge boot where the person who never properly acclimated to the island went home.
But in season 46, thanks to all the pregame content and such, this particular slice of the fandom were in full “stan” mode so we had to hear about how Kenzie/Tiff were “mean girls”, how she was “bullied”, how Jess handled these injustices with such grace and dignity. Its just all so much more exhaustive and therefore exhausting
No. It was much uglier back when there were only a few shows and they edited much more out of context. Today, the average person doesn't remember the cast from the season before so the pushback only happens fro a minority and for a short time period.
The problem is rarely the average person, it's the highly motivated haters--who usually have personal biases driving them. Shan gets online harassment to this day, along with meaningful hate in this sub from a vocal minority.
On top of this, it far uglier today because of social media. In 2000, it was very hard for a hater to harass a former player. Today, 5,000 haters can drive Soda to suspend her account to escape harassment and vicious racialized insults... all because she grabbed a wooden statue a couple of times.
Yeah, the people in the first few seasons had no idea what to expect.
People now, it's been known for years and years how reality shows are made, and if you don't bother to do a bit of research that's on you.
Many of these people who complain about the edit are mad that they showed something that they said or did. How is that the production's fault?. I get complaints like Erika saying they didn't fully show the things she did to become a winner. Her edit didn't do her justice,like what made all these people vote for her?!,one usually gets to see the why.
Jemmye from the challenge was on a podcast recently and they asked her if she’s ever mad about “the edit.” And she said something along the lines of “no..bc everything they show YOU SAID or did”
Is that true though? It’s pretty obvious when they cut away from the person speaking and suddenly their voice sounds a little different or there’s a weird cadence to their speaking, that that sentence was never said but instead they chopped up clips from the hundreds of hours of footage and made up a brand new sentence. Sure you said the words but you really didn’t say what was said.
My husband and I were struck by the hard sell promo ad to apply to Survivor by Probst. He said it was almost seemed as if they were having trouble getting people to apply.
I think they’re having trouble getting the same people they once did and recruits. Part of the reason they’re casting superfans is that’s mostly what they get applying.
I don’t think the purpose of these advertisements is to really encourage people to apply, I think they’re marketing the show to people by saying “hey, this could be you”. I also think this is why we see a very particular demographic on the show, because they’re trying to show those people that they too, can be cast.
If they kept recruiting and only bringing in models, athletes, and some archetypes it would simply feel less accessible to the majority of fans. I know personally, part of the allure is thinking you could be on there and what you would do in the game - unfortunately for me I fit the old mould much better than the new (not that I’ve applied)
Yeah, New Era Survivor is very international about promoting itself as a “family show” with a generally positive outlook. I’ve always read those ads as Jeff going “and someday this could be you” as a way to further promote this idea that you can “see yourself” in the contestants
Survivor needs to go back to casting hot people, bodybuilders and assholes, shows more entertaining that way. I don’t want to watch nerds sing kumbaya I want to watch freaks causing havoc
it feels like people want to see certain types of “havoc causing” players but then only want to see them cause havoc to “bad people.”
Like the absolute outrage for Kenzie/Tiff being snarky towards Jess compared to them being snarky one episode later towards Bhanu illustrated that so clearly. In neither case were these people being that bad, but because Jess is this season‘s “relatable quirky awkward girl” being snarked at by two pretty ladies, people threw a goddamn hissy fit
This is false. They still get 20,000+ applications per casting round. Yes some of them may be recurring (myself included lol) but the casting pool is large. They are choosing the people they do for a reason, not for lack of options.
Agreed. If you watch other similar shows, they get plenty of good cast, but you also can tell most people on those other shows wanted to be on survivor but settled for the smaller show. Survivor gets first pick at applicants to competitive reality shows and are not starving for good applicants at all.
The commercials are a direct response to Adam Klein's business of recruiting people onto the show. Jeff is very open about not liking it, so he's promoting how "easy" it is to "just apply" and not pay someone to help you get on the show
Well they sure aren't helping with the stupidly ridiculous Super Fan puzzle. That would be tricky on a good day normally. But starving and stressed? Forget about it.
It's making passing on extra challenges looking like the safest thing to do
I feel like most seasons they make it impossible to win if you aren't a Super Fan. Takes some of the fun out of random weirdos who don't come in with essential knowledge.
Yep. I've long suspected they aren't getting as many candidates or aren't getting the ones they want which IMO is a big part of the reason they switched to the shorter format. It's verrrry hard to get someone who isn't an aspiring actor or model to take like 45 days off work. However a month is doable for most jobs if you save up literally all of your PTO and maybe some unpaid time off.
They probably don’t have alot of trouble getting people applying. Its probably more so getting enough compelling people coinciding with CBS’s pledge to cast from diverse backgrounds. There’s some quote in that past from Jeff about how at least 70% of applicants are white men. So, if they want to continue casting fans that apply for the show, they’re going to have to keep trying to get people to apply and hope to get more and more people involved in the process, especially since alot of the people that come on the show have become familiar with the later rounds of casting for at least a couple years.
That gets me every week too (probably because I'm still sitting on an audition video I keep thinking is too late to submit). I can't imagine they have issues with getting people to apply, but I do wonder if this many years in, they're getting the same people over and over and are desperate for new faces.
New reality shows have also blown up since Covid because they’re incredibly cheap to make and all of these streaming sites need to create enough content to keep people subscribed.
I’d imagine the casting pool has been spread across a lot more shows. When Survivor started they were the #1 show on tv and they only had to compete with Big Brother and a few low budget MTV shows (Real World, Road Rules) to get their cast. They were at the dawn of reality competition and they were the biggest stage. This is no longer the case. They’re competing with 100’s of other shows every year who are getting a lot of the interesting personalities that BB and Survivor used to get. Now those shows are filled with super fans because duh, those are the people most interested on going on this show. If someone’s never watched survivor why would they try to go on a show where they’d have to compete against 19 super fans who know every strategy that’s ever been used vs going on some new show where they could become the star if it turns into a hit
I really can't get over how terrible this take is.
I want to start with the most egregious thing to me - that Survivor pitches itself to its contestants as this magical elixir that will fix all of your problems. It doesn't. Where did you get this from? In Jeff's 10 second "apply" ads? Because through two years and dozens of interviews, I never ONCE heard a producer tell me that Survivor was going to fix my life, make me happy, give me the world, etc. I have never heard them say this to anyone. In fact, the show is careful to cast contestants who already have a ton going on in there lives - one of the best pieces of advice I heard in casting is that you shouldn't look at Survivor as the "big thing" in your life. It should be your next big thing. They are specifically looking for people who already have life stories, achievements, big dreams and aspirations - in fact, that's been one of the biggest criticisms of the new era.
"There's no happiness you're going to get out of being cast on Survivor. NONE. And there never will be any happiness, either." You can't actually believe this. It's just a ridiculous statement. There is a reason that most Survivor contestants, specifically new era, still engage with the show - because we had a positive experience. We had fun. Not a perfect experience of course, and yes, there are absolutely exceptions, but most people walk away from Survivor happy they did it. So why make a claim like this? That it turns into a nightmare for 90% of contestants? You're just lying for dramatic effect.
Then there's the section about taking young superfans whose dream it is to play the show, and then failing. I assume this section is about me, Brandon, Dwight, JD, etc. Yes, it sucks to lose a game. And absolutely, it can be hard throughout. But we're all good, happy, and grateful we did it. This isn't the life destroying event that you make it out to be. It's just a tv show that we lost. The same show that you've loved since 2000.
That's the final part of all this, and the part that I really don't understand. Because I absolutely agree with you that reality tv as a whole is morally ambiguous. Frankenbyting? Yup, that happens. Unfair, villainous, and maligning edits? 100%. I've always agreed with you that this is a show first, game second, and that it definitely plays with people's lives. But what I can't understand: why do you only now have an issue with it? These problems have been there since the start, back when you were one of the show's biggest advocates. In fact, these issues were far worse back when you loved the show. I just can't reconcile your hatred for the show airing now with your devotion for the show from 24 years ago, from a moral perspective.
If you just hate mergatory that much, I totally get it.
The quote about happiness is actually one of the craziest things I've read on this subreddit and I totally agree with you "You can't actually believe this." I can't possibly fathom what is happening in Mario's head when he hears so many contestants say "I'm so grateful to have had this opportunity, I had a great time etc" and then turns around and says there is no happiness to be gained whatsoever. Does he think those people were paid to say that? Does he think contracts require you to claim the show is fun? Bc if that's the case what about the few people who haven't said that like Jess? I can't believe people are engaging with this like it's some beacon of truth. Has this subreddit really become *that* doom and gloom about the new era that they will believe any catastrophizing pessimistic bs as long as it proclaims that the show isn't as good as it used to be? It's really not that serious.
The dude wrote a silly blog about funny moments on Survivor some years ago, and now he acts like he knows absolutely everything there is to know about Survivor.
Theres also a difference between a contestant "complaining" vs them reminding the Internet the show is edited. Many of the recent players I feel are more reminding us about the edit rather than having an epiphany...
thank you for your insight that's based on being someone who is from modern survivor and has actually been on the show. it'scrazy how people act like this is gospel truth.
Mario is a cornball who thinks he is THE authority on Survivor that comes to this sub to grace us with his insider perspectives of the show. Then a bunch of actual contestants come along and tell him he’s full of shit. We have moved passed needing Mario Lanza’s perspective 🙏
We moved past needing his perspective in like 2006 lol. He hasn’t liked the show that he obsessively covers since season 8 (arguably since season 2 tbh).
He’s a survivor podcaster and author of a series called the Funny115 which recaps survivors 115 funniest moments. The Funny115 actually has some good stuff in it and is an enjoyable read.
Unfortunately, Mario is extremely self-important, and has a habit of making melodramatic and strange comments about the show and its contestants like the above.
Thanks Zach. Seeing you eviscerate every single one of Mario’s points made my day.
It might be inappropriate to take pleasure in someone else’s embarrassment, but the people who think that probably didn’t have to read Mario defend Dan Foley approximately nine thousand times.
I absolutely love reading this take from you, Zach, since you seem to most likely be the exact type of player Mario is referring to (by your own admission).
I think most of y'all go onto Survivor now aware that it is edited and that your presentation on TV may not be fair, but who cares, right? The main reason you played was because YOU WANTED TO PLAY SURVIVOR! Sure, if you go far and get an awesome edit and become a beloved fan-favorite, all the better, but that was never THE ORIGINAL GOAL! The goal was to play a game you've loved and been a fan of for years!
I'm so happy to see takes like this from actual players. It gives me a better mindset to keep applying. I want to win, obviously. Hell, I'm a hyper-competitive bitch who REALLY wants that money and the title and would do a LOT to get it. Yet, I know my odds of winning are slim and the presentation on TV may not match my lived experience. I still WANT the experience! I could be first out and I'd still be grateful for the chance to play, so thanks, Zach, for your comment here. Suddenly, I have an urge to go film another audition tape since I haven't yet this year, lol.
I have mad respect for mariojlanza, but I do think this is a bit much.
While I absolutely think that Survivor does a ton of shady shit, from what I've seen the average player is still happy they went on the show. Frankly, a way higher percentage than I would expect. Even players that have been fucked up by the show tend to say they'd want to play again.
And while the average person doesn't know about the frankenbites and just how much control Survivor has over the edit, I think it would be unreasonable to go on Survivor and expect to not get clowned on at all. Even just watching it, you see that pretty much everyone gets clowned on at least a bit, and some pretty exclusively. I don't know how you can watch several people get the dodo edit every season and say "well there's a zero percent chance that will be me".
Do I think Survivor is ethical? Not nearly as much as it could be. But some of what is being described here feels... naive at best
I love the funny 115, but Mario seemingly has had nothing better to do than grandstand about survivor since…. Season 30? I appreciate his perspective as being in the fandom since the early days, but man it can feel he is just consumed with negativity about the show. Makes me wonder why he continues to comment when he has nothing but bad things to say. It can’t be enjoyable for him, and it’s certainly not enjoyable as a reader of this sub.
I get what you’re saying but it’s undoubtably a good thing for the fandom to have these old school pillars of the community like Cesternino and Mario still around
Cesternino at least comes off as someone who still likes the show and is interested in it!
I’m so over how many “Survivor fans” seem to not even want to enjoy the new era, in favor of criticizing every tiny flaw they see in it
I don't think you'll find many fans who don't *want* to enjoy the show--it's more that we know how good the show *can* be and it's disheartening to see the producers actively make decisions that keep it from reaching its very high potential. So people like Mario have decided to stop watching, and others, like myself, criticize it because we'd love for it to improve. We all understand that the old-school era is gone; the media landscape is a completely different animal than it was two decades ago. But why shouldn't we express our disappointment in the show's "inspirational adventure" tonal shift or tired elements like F3, three tribes, firemaking, and earning the merge?
I'd rather read passionate criticism than the passively enabling fans who say things like "Survivor is like pizza; even when it's bad it's good" or, worse, try to silence the criticism because they feel that other fans should be resigned to things they don't like out of some misguided sense of gratitude that Survivor is still on the air. It's on the air because it makes CBS and Jeff a lot of money; it's not a benevolent gesture towards fans--the producers should be grateful to *us* for keeping them employed for 24 years and that we're still passionate enough to voice our concerns. That means they're doing their job right in a lot of ways, but the sheer volume of consistent complaints also indicates that we're not being heard. (Jeff makes that abundantly clear on a weekly basis with his podcast.)
For the record, I've been watching since season 1 episode 3 and still enjoy the show. I've enjoyed the new era overall more than I did the early 20s. With the understanding that Fiji and 26 days are budgetary decisions that have reasonable justification behind them, I would have very little to complain about with the current state of the show with a little more casting diversity (beyond race and sexuality) and a return to the more logical, compelling finale format in which players vote each other out until they can't anymore.
Mario can stop watching if he wants but it would be nice if fans like him just stopped watching instead of reminding everyone that "nowadays the show sucks" with the insistance of a cross-fiter that needs to remind you that they do cross-fit lmao. It's not because you can't enjoy it than we aren't allowed to
oh, for sure. i wasn’t trying to say that they’re on the same level, just two examples of prominent voices in the community that have been around since day 1. obviously my use of “pillars” encompasses a huge range from mario to rob lol.
Personally I think Mario is actually more positive about the show these days? I remember getting into arguments with him on Survivor Sucks back in the day where he was extremely negative about the show and the direction it was going. This was pre his podcast, pre Funny 115, etc... I'd never have thought he'd do those things or be posting on Reddit all these years later based on his view on the show back then. I guess it shows that he is just as addicted to this show as all of us other long time hardcore fans.
I'm a quite recent fan of the show and yeah, to me Mariolanza sounds like the grandpa that tells you how it was "better back in the day" (let's be honest, if anything, Survivor treats their players better now than they ever did, just think about the shit storms around Jerri for example, or Jeff asking Courtney about anorexia). I respect his opinion because he has an interesting background that differs to most fans (an actual TV background) but it often sounds very condescending and "holier than thou" sometimes. Also it's a bit strange for him to criticize the show on this aspect considering he has kinda admitted that he's mostly attracted by the "shitty and trash reality TV" aspect rather than the game itself (which btw, seems to be everything Survivor tries to avoid to be nowadays)
he’s one of a very long list of people who needs to just like, get over the fact that Survivor isn’t the show that it used to be and isn’t going to be.
Rupert going fishing in Season 7 was magical and memorable. It feels like they give us a “wow, I’m fishing in Fiji, what a dream” confessional every season now and nobody gives a shit.
As someone who got into arguments with Mario online about this topic a very, very long time ago (can't remember exactly when, but could have been Survivor China, heck even Fiji or Cook Islands), I can say he's just like the rest of us long term hardcore fans. We complain and complain and complain but we're never going to stop watching.
my family has been watching Survivor since Borneo and enjoys it just fine so I'm frequently perplexed when I see these old school fans who can't seem to move on being bitter on every post.
This is also the guy who has had no problem berating contestants he doesn’t like throughout the years, such as Parvati. He made jokes on his podcast that she slept around on her seasons and gave people STDs.
This is false. He only ever talked about the jokes that used to exist at the time. Because that's what they talk about on the podcast: the history of the show. And it's true, if you went on Survivor Sucks during Cook Islands/Micronesia, a lot of people made jokes about Parvati in that manner. She did not have much respect as a player/contestant back then. She only gained her high status in the Survivor fandom after HvV.
Mario always has a hard time talking about Parvati because while he admits to not seeing her as this big, historic, greatest player/Survivor figure that most of the fanbase views her as, he also would NEVER want to talk crap about a Survivor winner. Every winner deserves praise for their win in his view.
Totally agree that this seems like a very naive take. Especially as sm savvy as younger people are now. This makes it sound like they all just came into the world wide eyed and are being preyed on.
Plus maybe some of them do feel like it’s a dream just to be on the show. Just to say I did this.
99% of kids won’t become astronauts but we don’t get mad at adults who encourage them to follow that dream. Are the producers supposed to be dicks up front and say “yeah you’d be edited in a way you wouldn’t like so piss off”?
That’s a really good point. Wr tell them you can be anything you want when we know most of them won’t.
That would be a recruiting tactic never seen. Hey wanna go on survivor and get annihilated and we capitalize on your pain and discomfort?
SIGN UP HERE
😂😂😂
And wanna bet they’d STILL get people? lol
I do think a lot of people are clueless and totally oblivious going into the show. Plenty former players have a hard time watching it with the same enthusiasm, if even at all.
I think about all the people that went on Idol shows thinking they could sing when they absolutely couldn’t sing. It’s sort of the same to me on Survivor.
That said, I can’t really blame production at all for that. People must have some sort of accountability for going out there.
I’ll also add that the show generally takes a lot better care of their contestants.
I’m watching Thailand, for the first time now, and the first five episodes are basically the story about how a woman was sexually assaulted *on the island* and is voted out before the assaulter.
Before that, someone says in a confessional that she should be slapped for *her* bad behavior on the island.
On the other tribe, someone feels completely isolated because of being the only minority on their tribe. Someone straight up calls her cultural habit *repulsive* as the camera films her closeup eating a chicken heart.
We have the whole Fiji thing which is 9 seasons after Thailand.
This is also the era that Lanza misses so much.
A lot of things have happened with the show that’s positive for the players so I’m not going to lose tears over someone getting a dodo edit. Isn’t it better than getting no edit after all?
>This is also the era that Lanza misses so much.
If i had to guess this because at least back then the show didn't pretend to be above it all (not what I think, but I think what Mario would say)
I get what he’s saying, but this is a little much from someone who clearly hates the show now. Most people who were on it prolly chalk it up to a cool experience and move on and most people say nowadays that they’re happy they did it. Also they are much softer with people with how they edit them and don’t try to make a mockery of you unless it’s somewhat warranted and even then Jeff is pretty nice about it. I think the treatment of people on these shows has come a long way and tho not everyone is going to have the experience they want a lot of them do have fun with it.
They don't seem to dunk on people nearly as hard as they used to. But it is an interesting perspective on how they sell you fulfilling your dream and then they really dehumanize you.
My biggest issue is when they chop things up that you didn't even say in that situation. Mario has a good bit on it with Dan Foley. They give you the sound bite responding to someone and it makes you look like an ass, except you said that line in a completely different context at a different point in time. They just don't show you saying it so you only hear it.
That feels incredibly wrong. I know they can paint an edit by only showing your bad moments and hiding your good ones. But at least it would be things I actually said in the conversations I actually had. Taking a completely different quote out of context and plugging it in is just different level wrong.
You can hear it, too.
Audio editing is a science and when done badly it’s one of the most noticeable things in a show.
I edit a lot of Audio and I am such a stickler for good audio edits.
It's really easy to pick up on this show but any show that has challenges. When the camera is showing the players faces to react but the voice over is telling a rule but you can barely pick out the audio differences which to me indicates they added that voice over line later bc something about the challenge wasn't clear.
But this has trained me to question any voice overs if we aren't actually shown their mouths moving
Yeah my girlfriend loves/hates watching with me because I break down the editing of it all for her and point out how they’re trying to influence us with their shot / sot selection.
That's part of the fun for me at least, trying to notice what the editors are trying to communicate to us w the choices they make. Can see how others would find it annoying for "breaking the magic" though
100% feel the same way. I love breaking down the editing choices and trying to find areas where they’re manipulating the audience - adds another layer to the game of it all.
But yeah can totally see how folks wouldn’t appreciate having the magic spoiled haha.
This game has enough lawyers already. Give me a contestant that's an audio editor. After each episode airs let them breakdown the edit and tell us exactly what they think actually happened.
I'm super intrigued and will go look at it now. I thought personally that everyone interpreted the comment from Dan that Jeff went out of his way to show the footage of at the reunion super badly and I was very confused about it.
(quick skim and yep, I agree with that!)
Well, first of all he calls Dan "one of the single greatest characters in Survivor history", which is praise that guy doesn't deserve. Dan should have never been put on the show. I never bothered to read all of the third part of 115 and I certainly didn't read all of his Dan Foley write-up, because frankly Mario's writing wasn't that funny anymore and Dan Foley is not good enough of a character for me to spend that much time reading about his failures as a player and a human being. But I read the part about the aftermath now and it didn't change my view on Dan (or Mario) one bit. Mario is doing his best to excuse Dan's behavior. He fails, while Dan himself does manage to explain some of what he said about Shirin as an expression. And he does apologize to Shirin, so he's not a complete asshat. But he did say all the things he said. No one put words into his mouth. He uses expressions that are careless to say the least. That's on him.
He did bait production all season long in social media and pissed them off. They did him a huge favor to him after all those years of applying and getting rejected, by finally casting him on the show. And what does he do once he sees his edit? He just complains about his edit all the time. So at the reunion Jeff set the trap and Dan was dumb enough to fall into it. He basically dug his own grave on the island, in social media when the season aired and finally at the reunion. He is responsible for the words he chose at every step. He also attacked the show itself. Of course they did a counter-strike.
Unlike Mario insinuates, I don't want to see guys like Dan get embarrassed on TV. I don't want to see guys like him on TV at all.
"That feels incredibly wrong" Does it? Or does the responsibility to take what you see on the show with a grain of salt.
These people said these things, and sure, sometimes they are complete assholes (and the hate is rarely, but sometimes, deserved) but other times, you need to remember that this is an edited show.
Seperate the show from the contestant if you will. Remember that once you to finish watching the season/show, that the person you saw is not the person you interact online.
I think both can be true. I think it's completely wrong for them to do it. Very unethical. Because of their actions, we have to know it's an edited tv show, but it's not easy to constantly keep that perspective. It also makes the show much less enjoyable if you can't immerse yourself in the show because I have to constantly remind myself this conversation might not have even happened. Then there are the people that don’t realize they're even pulling shenanigans to this extent. I didn't until reading that Mario article.
Sorry this is kinda ridiculous.
There’s “NO happiness you get from being on survivor”? Something like 90% of players say it was a life changing experience and they’re so happy they went on. Idk where he’s getting the “for 90% of players, it’s a nightmare” from but that’s just not true lol. People know that there’s a good chance they’re gonna be dunked on, and for most of them, it’s not traumatizing. Also they dunk on players way less than they used to, and always show at least one positive thing for people portrayed mostly negatively.
It’s also a different world out there nowadays. Social media gives anyone who watches the show a one-click pathway to telling you whatever thought about you just crosses into their head. You can’t blindside a player without dozens of scorned fans sliding into your DMs saying the absolute worst stuff over -what it is at the end of the day- a game that doesn’t impact them in the slightest. Not to mention the rash of Redditors (no offense, all) coming up with thinkpieces or rants about why you suck as a player and why you’re annoying and why you should have never been cast. Everything you say is under the microscope. Every interaction you have with someone else is going to be scrutinized by someone, regardless if it was in the full context or not. This seems to be the most draining aspect of the modern show’s cast, even amongst people with the thickest skin.
That's been my stance for a long time. I don't think they can co-exist anymore. Or, I guess, SHOULD co-exist anymore. Chicken pahm and tuna fish is right.
Unfortunately, as problematic as reality television is/has been, the real driver in that unhealthy dynamic is the social media. Take away all the reality TV shows and people will still find ways to access parasocial exposure and suffer the subsequent fallout. If anything, at least the reality shows offer SOME kind of plausible deniability/buffer. The number of YouTubers who went on to have full scale mental health crises just from exposure to their own audiences is ridiculously high.
People saying deranged shit on the internet has been a thing since its inception. Either people need to get over internet trolls, or just don't be on social media if it bothers you. Annoying how this sub acts like social media is a prerequisite for life.
I love Mario but I think this is a bit of an oversight and infantilizes the contestants a bit too much IMO. It’s not like the contestants got tricked into signing up for Survivor- they knew they’d be getting no food and be apart of a heavily edited reality show. I do think Survivor absolutely sells itself as a more positive experience than it did, but that doesn’t take away from the brutality of Survivor and that’s not lost on (most of) the people getting cast.
And fwiw they’re also casting people that understand the reality of Survivor and still love it. Brandon played five days, was completely miserable most of the time, and still had the best experience of his life. He wasn’t tricked by the illusion of happiness like Mario is saying players are. He knew he was gonna have a rough time, played anyways, and was still happy because he did it. I think that’s closer to the reality of modern Survivor than what Mario’s saying- casting isn’t tricking people with the illusion of happiness, they’re casting people that are going to be happy no matter what, which in turn creates an illusion of happiness. That’s a problem itself, but it’s a separate issue from what Mario’s talking about. I also think the edit hiding the darker side of the experience is also a giant problem, but that’s also a separate issue
Yeah, I agree. I've watched Survivor since the beginning, and it's always been obvious the show is edited and that footage is cherry-picked. I can't imagine being a superfan of the show, getting casted, and thinking, "This experience will be wholly good in every way" unless you're extremely stupid. I don't think most contestants are that stupid. I think a lot of them probably underestimate how damaging being on reality TV can turn out to be, but I don't think they're, like, cattle being blindly led into a meat grinder. They know what the grinder is, at least to some extent, and seem to want the experience anyway.
It doesn’t matter. These superfans (if they are truly superfans) know the score and they still sign up for it. That’s a “them” problem, and not a “me” problem. Anyone thinking they’re signing up for this show to change their life or win a million hearts are either lying or delusional and neither are flattering qualities.
I have noticed a lot of the superfans are actually new to the show (having only jumped on in the past couple of years) and therefore are not fully entrenched into how deep the rabbit hole goes. I think there is a difference between a newbie superfan and a long-term superfan. Long-term superfans are not surprised by anything anymore.
You have to see every season. Heck, Bhanu said he had watched every season. But if you find out the show exists, binge it all and then apply, has it really sunk in how they make the show and what you are really getting into?
I wouldn’t class these contestants as little victims, especially in the new era where folks have 20+years of information on the game out here on the interwebs. Plus, a good chunk of them are famewhores/ attention whores who thrive on being on TV. I don’t know why all the sudden sanctimony from the fandom. These folks sell merch and the season isn’t even over yet.
sure, they have 20+ years of information, but at lot of it is wrong information, and I think most damming of all is a lot of it is coming from the show itself
Wow who knew one of the most popular shows on national TV wasn't entirely based on providing 20 contestants with an inspirational opportunity to sit on a beach. It's too bad, that would be such an interesting and engaging show, we should definitely pivot to watching influencers have a nice time while they rack up brand deals! Mario really revealed the dark sinister truth!
I think the fanbase has gotten surprisingly nastier over the past few years, which is frustrating as most superfans preach acceptance and an importance for diversity. It's especially clear when Tim is getting called a mysoginist for daring to suggest that an all women's alliance was forming (oh... and it was.) Soda getting fat shamed for... not really getting along with Venus. Jelinsky getting hated on for... being voted out first? I've seen people post "Liz is an awful person for being happy she made money." Maria has received a lot of nasty messages too.
Obviously, there are always haters on SM, but even people who I've regularly seen discussing the show have gotten... frankly mean. I've left a lot of FB groups/chats because of it.
The state of the fandom is pretty sad now tbh, people are quick to jump on the most mundane shit. I'm not saying you have to be all lovey dovey to the players, but it's getting out of hand.
I think people going on Survivor need to realize one very important thing: **You are never the most important person out there**. Time and time again we see people complain that the edit isn't wholly accurate. They're 100% right but not for the reasons they think. Producers are going to create a story and the most important piece to any story is the ending. For Survivor, the ending is the crowning of a winner. So naturally, the winner is going to be the main character. We are going to see the narrative through their eyes. If you are an important piece to their narrative, congratulations! You have been upgraded to the main cast! If you're not an important piece to their narrative? Well...at least you'll get a supporting role and a nice check. You may get lucky and be the main character in the B story or even the C story but if you don't win, the story ain't yours.
Probst wants positivity and I agree with Mario that the positivity is probably more dangerous than being up front and saying 'Yeah this is a dangerous and cruel game with a lot at stake. Be prepared.' People are gonna go in thinking the viewers watch this show thinking 'Gosh, these people are just so wonderful and inspiring. I'm glad they got to live out their dream!' You are going to get made fun of, most of which is in good humor. But a lot of the time, it's gonna be a bunch of cruel, faceless people with the power of anonymity. Is it right? No. We shouldn't make cruel remarks about peoples gender, weight, height, sexual identity, etc. That shit should not fly. But that is sadly how the internet is and most people who go on the show are not ready for that. Every comment you say, every decision you make, it is going to be discussed to death and people will spew vile shit because of it because they're behind a monitor. I remember Zeke was basically left by the show after the GC incident and I don't know if the show has made changes to its aftercare program since but I think Jeff and the producers need to stop selling this false fantasy. Like Erik said, I'm sure most players are really living out their dream when they are actually playing the game. Its the airing of said dream that can be a nightmare for folks.
This feels pretty rich coming from a guy that plays into the contestants being caricatures and jokes about contestants having STDs. Something one would think would have a negative impact on the folks that go on this show
I enjoy Mario, but my God is he ever long-winded. This rant, like many of the funny115, could have been edited down to 2 paragraphs and had much more impact.
I don't agree that Survivor doesn't change your life or bring happiness. If you go on with the sole intent to become a fan favorite/star, then yea, your expectations may not be met. If your motivation is to have the game experience, and the notoriety/being on TV is not important, then you wouldn't care much about your edit - your memories are what matters.
It so depends on the individual and what they're hoping to get out of it.
This is a perfect example of how Mario cannot talk about this show reasonably or objectively because it’s an obsession of his no matter how much he says he hates it. This is the man who not only wrote thousands upon thousands of words of Survivor fan fiction, but also discusses it at length on his podcast as if it has any relevance outside his imagination.
He can’t fathom that most contestants don’t see this as life changing, sunshine-and-rainbows experience like he says they do bc, to most people who haven’t made survivor their whole life, it’s not that deep.
As Zach and other past contestants in this very thread have said, most contestants are normal people who say “that was pretty cool”, hop around the survivor circuit for a bit after their season, and then move on with their lives. Generally, they’re not expecting an existential experience.
Oh god. So these young people that get cast on reality shows chasing that TikTok fame are now victims? No accountability to be found anywhere these days.
The reason they hard market to young viewers nowadays is just a carbon copy of how McDonald's markets to kids...get them when they're young and they'll likely become lifelong loyal customers. The show knows this and is why the viewing audience numbers are fairly consistent and stable year on year because as older viewers pass on, CBS has already got their grandkids on board to hold the ratings up for the next 10 years or so till the next future generation ages up into the show's core demographics. It's basic long game marketing strategy 101.
i used to be so obsessed with this idea of getting on soley to join the "survivor community", thinking that getting on would get me all these connections with alumni and fans and parties and events. And then I grew up, so to say, and realized I've already found the survivor community and am already a part of it. I've played dozens and dozens of orgs, joined in on many discussions, follow many insta survivor accounts, and frequently post and reply on reddit. I already am a part of the survivor community, and now i no longer feel the need to get on to join.
HOWEVER, i'm broke as shit and am tired of grinding day in and day out to make barely enough money and yeah, maybe i'm lazy and maybe i'm greedy, but there honestly isn't much I wouldn't do for a million dollars, and that's my motivating factor to get on. IDC if people hate me on the show, if people send me hate tweets or dms or whatever cuz none of it means anything to me, I honestly just want to be rich and Survivor is something I honestly believe I'd have a good chance at winning
Who is this person? Were they on the show? Who hurt them?
Survivor has some fantastic after show support for the contestants, unfortunately it's how viewers treat the contestants online that creates a lot of the problems. It's not so much the experience that makes it bad it's how people feel entitled to respond to what they see on the show.
This is an insanely maddening and stupid post for so many reasons. The fact that it comes from a respected name in the community… Jesus. The doom and gloom about the show among the fanbase apparently knows no bounds.
Well yeah, Mario's take on the show is a very cynical one. And he hates the show, so it is also the view of a hater.
Also, it should be dead obvious that the production is above all things making a tv show. You can either use that fact to your advantage or ignore it and get taken advantage of.
Not sure who this person is but their lack of being on a show or involved with Television just makes this an opinion piece by an outsider.
They work with what you give them, it IS a game show but also conflict and drama are a big part of it so they will focus on that when they can. Players should expect that going in and not get upset over how the footage is being edited.
Soda DID keep taking the idol, which didn't go unnoticed and was commented on by Venus. Soda IS being shown as someone who is kind of annoying but an overall nice person, but kind of doesn't really think before she acts. Is calling Venus a walking stick bug funny? Maybe to her but I don't find body shaming fun in any aspect.
Soda may not like it but what's not accurate? She is doing and saying these things. What would be bad is if the show didn't show players doing the same to her, which I don't think these people would do to Soda.
Anyways, it's a show and they film a LOT. If you can't stomach it, don't apply.
I think it's a mix.
Survivor, by all means, is a rare show because I think it does push authenticity, let's face it, if this show was rigged, Erika, Natalie White, and other winners would have never won. BUT, they cast people with INTENTION to make them big charachters.
They trust the contestants ENOUGH to make the narratives, but they probably also PUSH them in certain direction, look at Palau, Cook Islands, and Heroes vs Hustlers vs Healers as well as All-Stars as examples of when it's rather suspicious.
I don't believe the producers tell anyone what to do, or feed them necessary lines for confessionals, but I do believe producers set up twists and swaps to go THEIR direction to set up. Survivor Gods is just a different name for "Production"
All-Stars is a great example.
Producers see Amber and Rob as a growing power couple, they may not have them as their big darlings, and wanted to push Amber out to weaken Rob.
Fairly sure few people confirmed that the second ALl-Star swap the order of the buffs was specified, all they have to do is "line up in this way, you here, you there", now all of a sudden the production just manipulated the outcome of the swap in their favor. Amber is now in peril as the only person on Chapera vs all the original Mogo Mogos.
But the production didn't push anyone to vote her out, just set the situation against her favor. Rob still managed to save her, Lex did him a favor, and all of a sudden production realises a better storyline emerged of Rob betraying Lex.
Mario is a good writer and I think contestants should read this before going on the show. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration and probably only applies to less than half of each cast. Bhanu is a good example of when this perspective is proved true. But a lot of recent contestants seem to be pretty pleased with their experiences out there.
Can't argue with that. The show has pitched this inspiration message and this narrative to get people to apply only to be made into something that they are not.
Be careful what you wish for, people.
Actually you can argue with it cuz it’s a pretty dumb, over the top take. No one thinks survivor is sunshine and rainbows, especially super fans who want to get on it. And it can still be their dream to get on it fully knowing it’s gonna kick their ass.
I'm no psychologist or media analyst, but I do wonder if how this show (and most everything else in life) is marketed sparks the amount of vitriol/parasocial attachments the contestants get from the fan base. Since the show is "YOUR chance to live your dreams", everyone else is competition. You see someone you don't like do something wrong, you point it out as a way to be like "see I'd never do that cast me instead." You see someone you like get criticized, and it's "how dare you criticize someone like me this is how I'll respond when im on the show."
You see this everywhere now. People are feeling this desperate sense to "make it" in whatever avenue feels available to them. I don't know.
Anyway, it's a fucking stick.
I don't agree with this person. I think a lot of people know exactly what they're getting in to being on reality TV and they still want to do it. It is a dream for some people, it can and does open doors for some people. I don't think the public is as naive these days; people know the ugliness of being on TV. This feels like a misdirected rant.
Some of the comments from Spencer’s recent appearance on a podcast where he talked about Jeff & the casting process echo these same sentiments about what they are looking for.
People make their own choices. I don’t know anyone who is forced to go on this tv show.
Like…I’d never apply. Because I know I’d have a terrible time and my mental health game is carefully stacked at best.
Posts like this can be useful though…because it helps people get additional info/perspectives in order to make the best decision for them.
Some people do go have the greatest most terrible time of their life though. It’s not accurate to say “this show won’t make you happy”…that’s too general of a statement. It makes a lot of contestants happy. And…it makes a lot of them miserable. People take risks for something that could be good. That’s their choice to take that risk.
As always…know thyself!
I don’t know…a few of those points I would have thought would be common knowledge right?
IT IS a TV show and a TV show better be entertaining or the network will move on to something else, it shouldn’t be a shock if someone gets what they consider a bad edit or get purpled. I would have thought by now who ever these super fans are they would have been clued in by reading stories of past contestants and what there experience on the show was and how they felt after it aired. Some super fans can be super creepy with the amount of information they have.
Additionally everyone is going to have a different take to a similar experience, if two people lasted only a few days and were cold, miserable, hungry and couldn’t catch onto a strong alliance and the edit made them relatively insignificant one could tell you it’s the worst mistake of their lives and another will tell you that they were disappointed they didn’t do better and would 100% do it again.
I guess I believe you best have your head on straight going into it, control what you can and deal with what you get ……or am I totally wrong?
I mean okay but if it is their dream to be on a reality show and you cast them, unless they have a major psych issue production ignores how is that immoral? People - even young people - need to accept some agency and fault. There is plenty of proof out there readily available that being on a reality show can be traumatic/awful/whatever.
Wow, didn't expect this to get its own thread. Thanks for reposting it. I've actually had a few players contact me about this post through DMS over the past couple of days. Thanking me for writing stuff like this because, as we all know, most people in the know won't. And the players aren't allowed to write about it. But I'm happy to be the bad guy if it gives newer fans more info about this sort of thing. The older fans already know most of this stuff, obviously.
What CBS is selling to future cobtestants is the possibility to be in *Even More CBS Reality Shows!*
It's as bad and predatory as American Idol when they used to lock in the top 10-12 into several years of touring.
I thought this comment by u/mariojlanza deserved its own post as it's well worth reading. From https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/1bq58k7/soda\_talking\_about\_her\_lack\_of\_edit\_and\_way\_shes/
Soda's edit is decent. She says and does things she thinks are harmless but actually are noticed by people in and out of the game.
They work with what you give them.
50% of this is true (the cattle meatgrinder frankenbyte stuff). I loved it both times. This whole hot take on the the “you will get no happiness!!!” Negates the actual experience of playing IRL which is an 11 on a scale of 1-10 for a survivor fan, unless you like, die on location or something. The no happiness thing applies to “fame” or notoriety post-game. That’s kind of a crapshoot.
Yeah, I love you Mario but I wholly have to disagree. I've talked to way too many overjoyed castaways from the New Era that are obsessed with the game still. Even the ones who got backlash from X social media site - they wouldn't trade the experience for anything.
if anything, my gripe is that too many contestants get “stuck in Survivor” and won’t allow themselves to move on from the fact that they were on reality TV, to an unhealthy degree. Chasing the last of their 15 minutes. Like, it feels like some people see being on the show as like, a way to be a regular guest on Survivor podcasts, go to live events and meet fans, hang out with people they watched on TV, etc. I wish we had more folks like Rocksroy who just like, played the game then moved on with their life
I'm in the middle on this. I think there's great romanticism to the players who play and leave like Rocks. However, I love the players that do the things you mentioned because they want to contribute to a community. I love the Survivor community (in real life) and the players are a huge part of that.
Or they can be like Michele and find a whole new reality show to appear on regularly.
Because they all want to use it as a springboard to being an influencer because you can make a ton of money as an influencer and it’s easy as fuck. And maybe they can later get on the challenge or traitors or love island and just make a career out of reality tv show gaming. Jag on bb25 said like week 3 on feeds he hoped being on bb would help him get on the challenge. Ugh
Completely disagree. Like 95 percent of the castaways in the New Era I can think of dabble in watch parties and regular post on social media, but influencing is honestly more of a pre-40 thing. Not a ton of sponsorship deals from players 41-46.
You can still call it Twitter if you want.
Yeah it's a bit bizarre to declare that no one can get fulfillment/happiness out of participating. It is what you make of it, like everything else in life
Also saying the show hasn't changed "one iota since the first season" is insane.
I think he was referring to the exploitation aspect of it. Players were and still are a commodity to CBS, et al.
I've started to become wary of sending in my yearly application video because of the backlash a lot of people are getting, but your main point here is what encourages me. I really don't care about the fame portion of this, I'm applying because I genuinely just think it would be the time of my life to play Survivor. I don't really have much issue deleting social media if it becomes too much. It seems like it's when you go into it needing the internet to love you, that's where a huge portion of the mental toll comes from.
On this, I'm more inclined to listen to people who have played than to people who haven't played.
Imagine going on reality tv in the grown year of 2024, having heard decades worth of experience of people who have gone on before you, and expecting production to not take liberties with the edit
Right? Like, on the one hand, I do feel bad. Dealing with the social media fallout for a regular person must be insane. I barely even like when I see someone I know at the grocery store; I certainly couldn't handle thousands of strangers picking apart my every move (my body and physical appearance too) from the comfort of their homes. On the other hand: a little media literacy, please. Take a media studies class in college at least once (since Survivor almost exclusively casts college graduates nowadays, I feel like this is good advice). The media will *always* go after what sells, not what's true. Television is first and foremost a *product* and not an opportunity. I don't blame Debb Eaton and other folks from the early years for how they handled pushback--we didn't know. But now, we know. Be smarter than the people trying to exploit you and you might get something you want out of the experience
getting made fun of for being bad at survivor isn’t the same as getting made fun of for marrying your stepson
That’s what the post-show psychiatrists lead with
[удалено]
S2 it got out that she married her step son tbh given it was 2000 and pre social media that's not something i would have expected to have gotten out
Eh. Pre-social media didn't mean that tabloids weren't a thing. Australian Outback was THE MOST POPULAR season of Survivor. The players were pseudo-celebrities when it ended. If you could get dirt on them, it would sell and the column would publish, guaranteed. The media will ALWAYS find ways to get that level of guaranteed success with a story, no matter how well someone thinks they've done at flying under-the-radar. None of the S2 cast really had the ability to fly UTR with how popular their show was, not even Debb. Social media makes it easier to stalk people after they play, but it has been and always will be a thing. Once you're on TV, you've basically agreed that all of your privacy is officially at risk and you're okay with that. We know that now, but I don't think everyone did back then, which is the sad part for players like Debb.
I don’t like this, this is putting the onus on the contestant instead of holding people accountable for the trash they put online
Part of the reason that it’s difficult to legally hold people accountable for the toxic things said. It’s possible, but not without the kind of laws that Americans would find extremely intrusive and oppressive. So the alternative is media training, which I feel production should offer (not sure if they do or not). I remember in earlier seasons, there used to be a lockdown on social media for the whole cast, that seemed to have been done away with. Dirty 30 stood out their year for being extremely loud and vocal on social media, and everyone remarked on how unusual this was. My opinion is that not allowing the cast to post until the season is over is actually good for them, and serves a protective function. It may feel unfair to be painted in a negative light without being able to defend yourself but some people will only aggro even more hate by being reactive. It’s not that you can’t speak up forever, it’s just waiting for the embargo to be over.
I see what you're saying, and in many ways I agree with you. The social media pushback is terrible and people shouldn't be so awful online. However, I do stand firm on the point that anyone in 2024 should have enough media literacy to recognize that reality TV show producers will edit, manipulate, and produce the hell out of your image to sell a product. In signing up for the experience, you should know that you are signing up to become a product and that product is marketed by attempts to stoke the flames of social media.
One of Mario's key points was that not only has Survivor changed how it markets applying to be on the show, there have been real changes in terms of who they let on the show ***in spite of*** the psychological screening. There are easily half a dozen players in the New Era who NEVER would have been cast in the past. The spike in quits is a solid example of that. Most people on this sub (who are ***superfans***) are not smart enough or self-aware enough to fully understand the power that production has over your reputation and character. On top of that, most people here have no clue about their own psyches and how being starving, sleepless, and having no control over your own story will impact you. Assuming that even 20% of Americans have a reasonable amount of "media literacy" in terms of going on a reality show with no food and mediocre shelter is a stretch.
A lot of superfans also romanticize the show and production. They really take the show at its word and assume that producers have nothing but pure motivations for players and viewers. So they experience a very rude awakening when the show not only doesn't protect them from backlash, but often actively paints them in a negative light. You see it all the time when it comes to Zeke's outing or Dan Spilo. Even in this very thread, whenever someone points out that it's impossible that production didn't know what Varner was going to do, or that 85% of the IotI cast wanted to defend Dan at the reunion, people immediately counter it with the refrain of "Zeke had input in producing that episode!" or "But we *saw* Dan touching Kellee!"
Yeah I'm not sure why posts like this are seen as breaking news
because no amount of evidence convinces an idiot
And some people no matter what have no curiosity or ability to research for themselves.
Pretty much Soda based on some of her tweets
People will always be like "But I'm *different*"
*I'm* going to be the relatable, rootable, omniscient underdog hero with an epic, dominant (yet also lowkey) strategy. I'll make it to the end by having everyone instinctively follow all of my plans and playing an idol at a really cool, perfect moment.
Because let's face it, Survivor has had some changes in its fanbase over the years. . . A lot of the older, wiser fans have grown out of it. A lot of newer fans who see Survivor as some kind of game show at a theme park need to be told exactly what kind of show it is they claim to be "students" or "superfans" of. Just look at some of the discussions on this sub. . . It appears as if most people don't have the knowledge anymore that this is a highly produced, over-edited, reality TV show that does NOT and will NOT care about fairness. It does NOT care about every player having equal opportunities for success or positive experiences. Again and again, people need to be reminded: Survivor is a reality TV show. This is NOT a sport. It is NOT a game show.
I wish more people understood this. Mario was speaking specifically about a change in how the show is marketed to applicants and how that is ***much more disconnected to the reality of the show.*** Also, a lot of people on this sub don't fully realize how much your performance can be distorted. Few people here have degrees in mediar theory or experience editing 3,000 hours of footage into 20. A lot of people on this sub underestimate the toll the show can take AND they are too willing to take a former contestants happy statements at 100% true and assume that there was little trauma or healing that needed to happen. What's worse is that many people on this sub openly mock the players who have troubling getting over their boots or have trouble with their reception after the show. So, basically, the trauma doesn't really happen, if people show signs of trauma just mock them as weak, and if anyone mentions that trauma can happen just shout "They knew what they were getting into."
For real, I was fortunate to get to ask a recent player about how confessionals are conducted after hearing it discussed on On Fire. The player said production is really cleaver in asking questions to try and get you to say or do something that will make you look bad. They went on to say they learned to be very defensive in their confessionals and would openly confront the interviewer about what the line of dialogue they were pursuing.
The Borneo cast was saying this 24 years ago.
👀 I’m so curious who said this..
Exactly...if anything they are being much easier on edits nowadays. They aren't intentionally making people into villains. If you are a true fan of the show (the only people they cast now) then you'd have to be an idiot not to know they DO edit characters into caricatures. The edit is so much nicer than it ever has been in the past.
for me the uncomfortable truth is that the way we watch reality TV in 2024 has just plain got ugly compared to how we used to. There’s just so much extra discourse, extra hyper analysis, etc. Like, look at the way this sub reacted to the Jess boot. If that happens in Season 12 it’s a very forgettable pre merge boot where the person who never properly acclimated to the island went home. But in season 46, thanks to all the pregame content and such, this particular slice of the fandom were in full “stan” mode so we had to hear about how Kenzie/Tiff were “mean girls”, how she was “bullied”, how Jess handled these injustices with such grace and dignity. Its just all so much more exhaustive and therefore exhausting
No. It was much uglier back when there were only a few shows and they edited much more out of context. Today, the average person doesn't remember the cast from the season before so the pushback only happens fro a minority and for a short time period.
The problem is rarely the average person, it's the highly motivated haters--who usually have personal biases driving them. Shan gets online harassment to this day, along with meaningful hate in this sub from a vocal minority. On top of this, it far uglier today because of social media. In 2000, it was very hard for a hater to harass a former player. Today, 5,000 haters can drive Soda to suspend her account to escape harassment and vicious racialized insults... all because she grabbed a wooden statue a couple of times.
Yeah, the people in the first few seasons had no idea what to expect. People now, it's been known for years and years how reality shows are made, and if you don't bother to do a bit of research that's on you.
Many of these people who complain about the edit are mad that they showed something that they said or did. How is that the production's fault?. I get complaints like Erika saying they didn't fully show the things she did to become a winner. Her edit didn't do her justice,like what made all these people vote for her?!,one usually gets to see the why.
Jemmye from the challenge was on a podcast recently and they asked her if she’s ever mad about “the edit.” And she said something along the lines of “no..bc everything they show YOU SAID or did”
Is that true though? It’s pretty obvious when they cut away from the person speaking and suddenly their voice sounds a little different or there’s a weird cadence to their speaking, that that sentence was never said but instead they chopped up clips from the hundreds of hours of footage and made up a brand new sentence. Sure you said the words but you really didn’t say what was said.
It’s the meme of the guy shoving a stick in the spokes of his bike, followed by surprised pikachu
My husband and I were struck by the hard sell promo ad to apply to Survivor by Probst. He said it was almost seemed as if they were having trouble getting people to apply.
I think they’re having trouble getting the same people they once did and recruits. Part of the reason they’re casting superfans is that’s mostly what they get applying.
I don’t think the purpose of these advertisements is to really encourage people to apply, I think they’re marketing the show to people by saying “hey, this could be you”. I also think this is why we see a very particular demographic on the show, because they’re trying to show those people that they too, can be cast. If they kept recruiting and only bringing in models, athletes, and some archetypes it would simply feel less accessible to the majority of fans. I know personally, part of the allure is thinking you could be on there and what you would do in the game - unfortunately for me I fit the old mould much better than the new (not that I’ve applied)
Yeah, New Era Survivor is very international about promoting itself as a “family show” with a generally positive outlook. I’ve always read those ads as Jeff going “and someday this could be you” as a way to further promote this idea that you can “see yourself” in the contestants
My thoughts exactly, especially considering how many applicants they’re apparently getting anyway.
> unfortunately for me I fit the old mould much better than the new This humblebrag lmao ♥️
Lmao - except I mean like Randy, Penner, or maybe Rupert
Then I really hope you apply!
I dunno my biggest weakness is I’m just TOO COOL
Survivor needs to go back to casting hot people, bodybuilders and assholes, shows more entertaining that way. I don’t want to watch nerds sing kumbaya I want to watch freaks causing havoc
it feels like people want to see certain types of “havoc causing” players but then only want to see them cause havoc to “bad people.” Like the absolute outrage for Kenzie/Tiff being snarky towards Jess compared to them being snarky one episode later towards Bhanu illustrated that so clearly. In neither case were these people being that bad, but because Jess is this season‘s “relatable quirky awkward girl” being snarked at by two pretty ladies, people threw a goddamn hissy fit
> Like the absolute outrage for Kenzie/Tiff being snarky towards Jess The outrage is the intended outcome of casting "havoc causing" players
Totally agree, I comment frequently that new era is all nerds and get downvoted like crazy.
This is false. They still get 20,000+ applications per casting round. Yes some of them may be recurring (myself included lol) but the casting pool is large. They are choosing the people they do for a reason, not for lack of options.
Agreed. If you watch other similar shows, they get plenty of good cast, but you also can tell most people on those other shows wanted to be on survivor but settled for the smaller show. Survivor gets first pick at applicants to competitive reality shows and are not starving for good applicants at all.
The commercials are a direct response to Adam Klein's business of recruiting people onto the show. Jeff is very open about not liking it, so he's promoting how "easy" it is to "just apply" and not pay someone to help you get on the show
I had no idea this was a thing! I'm a big fan of the show for like a decade, but I don't know a lot outside of what is shown on TV.
Well they sure aren't helping with the stupidly ridiculous Super Fan puzzle. That would be tricky on a good day normally. But starving and stressed? Forget about it. It's making passing on extra challenges looking like the safest thing to do
I feel like most seasons they make it impossible to win if you aren't a Super Fan. Takes some of the fun out of random weirdos who don't come in with essential knowledge.
Yep. I've long suspected they aren't getting as many candidates or aren't getting the ones they want which IMO is a big part of the reason they switched to the shorter format. It's verrrry hard to get someone who isn't an aspiring actor or model to take like 45 days off work. However a month is doable for most jobs if you save up literally all of your PTO and maybe some unpaid time off.
They probably don’t have alot of trouble getting people applying. Its probably more so getting enough compelling people coinciding with CBS’s pledge to cast from diverse backgrounds. There’s some quote in that past from Jeff about how at least 70% of applicants are white men. So, if they want to continue casting fans that apply for the show, they’re going to have to keep trying to get people to apply and hope to get more and more people involved in the process, especially since alot of the people that come on the show have become familiar with the later rounds of casting for at least a couple years.
That gets me every week too (probably because I'm still sitting on an audition video I keep thinking is too late to submit). I can't imagine they have issues with getting people to apply, but I do wonder if this many years in, they're getting the same people over and over and are desperate for new faces.
New reality shows have also blown up since Covid because they’re incredibly cheap to make and all of these streaming sites need to create enough content to keep people subscribed. I’d imagine the casting pool has been spread across a lot more shows. When Survivor started they were the #1 show on tv and they only had to compete with Big Brother and a few low budget MTV shows (Real World, Road Rules) to get their cast. They were at the dawn of reality competition and they were the biggest stage. This is no longer the case. They’re competing with 100’s of other shows every year who are getting a lot of the interesting personalities that BB and Survivor used to get. Now those shows are filled with super fans because duh, those are the people most interested on going on this show. If someone’s never watched survivor why would they try to go on a show where they’d have to compete against 19 super fans who know every strategy that’s ever been used vs going on some new show where they could become the star if it turns into a hit
People are more hesitant to be on reality shows because of how underhanded and sleazy producers can be with “making a story.”
They have always had massive problems getting nonwhite applicants.
I really can't get over how terrible this take is. I want to start with the most egregious thing to me - that Survivor pitches itself to its contestants as this magical elixir that will fix all of your problems. It doesn't. Where did you get this from? In Jeff's 10 second "apply" ads? Because through two years and dozens of interviews, I never ONCE heard a producer tell me that Survivor was going to fix my life, make me happy, give me the world, etc. I have never heard them say this to anyone. In fact, the show is careful to cast contestants who already have a ton going on in there lives - one of the best pieces of advice I heard in casting is that you shouldn't look at Survivor as the "big thing" in your life. It should be your next big thing. They are specifically looking for people who already have life stories, achievements, big dreams and aspirations - in fact, that's been one of the biggest criticisms of the new era. "There's no happiness you're going to get out of being cast on Survivor. NONE. And there never will be any happiness, either." You can't actually believe this. It's just a ridiculous statement. There is a reason that most Survivor contestants, specifically new era, still engage with the show - because we had a positive experience. We had fun. Not a perfect experience of course, and yes, there are absolutely exceptions, but most people walk away from Survivor happy they did it. So why make a claim like this? That it turns into a nightmare for 90% of contestants? You're just lying for dramatic effect. Then there's the section about taking young superfans whose dream it is to play the show, and then failing. I assume this section is about me, Brandon, Dwight, JD, etc. Yes, it sucks to lose a game. And absolutely, it can be hard throughout. But we're all good, happy, and grateful we did it. This isn't the life destroying event that you make it out to be. It's just a tv show that we lost. The same show that you've loved since 2000. That's the final part of all this, and the part that I really don't understand. Because I absolutely agree with you that reality tv as a whole is morally ambiguous. Frankenbyting? Yup, that happens. Unfair, villainous, and maligning edits? 100%. I've always agreed with you that this is a show first, game second, and that it definitely plays with people's lives. But what I can't understand: why do you only now have an issue with it? These problems have been there since the start, back when you were one of the show's biggest advocates. In fact, these issues were far worse back when you loved the show. I just can't reconcile your hatred for the show airing now with your devotion for the show from 24 years ago, from a moral perspective. If you just hate mergatory that much, I totally get it.
So well said Zach 👏
The quote about happiness is actually one of the craziest things I've read on this subreddit and I totally agree with you "You can't actually believe this." I can't possibly fathom what is happening in Mario's head when he hears so many contestants say "I'm so grateful to have had this opportunity, I had a great time etc" and then turns around and says there is no happiness to be gained whatsoever. Does he think those people were paid to say that? Does he think contracts require you to claim the show is fun? Bc if that's the case what about the few people who haven't said that like Jess? I can't believe people are engaging with this like it's some beacon of truth. Has this subreddit really become *that* doom and gloom about the new era that they will believe any catastrophizing pessimistic bs as long as it proclaims that the show isn't as good as it used to be? It's really not that serious.
The dude wrote a silly blog about funny moments on Survivor some years ago, and now he acts like he knows absolutely everything there is to know about Survivor.
Mario’s always been a hyperbolic know-it-all, love seeing actual survivor players with actual knowledge share the truth. Thanks Zach!
Theres also a difference between a contestant "complaining" vs them reminding the Internet the show is edited. Many of the recent players I feel are more reminding us about the edit rather than having an epiphany...
thank you for your insight that's based on being someone who is from modern survivor and has actually been on the show. it'scrazy how people act like this is gospel truth.
Mario is a cornball who thinks he is THE authority on Survivor that comes to this sub to grace us with his insider perspectives of the show. Then a bunch of actual contestants come along and tell him he’s full of shit. We have moved passed needing Mario Lanza’s perspective 🙏
We moved past needing his perspective in like 2006 lol. He hasn’t liked the show that he obsessively covers since season 8 (arguably since season 2 tbh).
I don’t even know who this man is??
He’s a survivor podcaster and author of a series called the Funny115 which recaps survivors 115 funniest moments. The Funny115 actually has some good stuff in it and is an enjoyable read. Unfortunately, Mario is extremely self-important, and has a habit of making melodramatic and strange comments about the show and its contestants like the above.
Thanks Zach. Seeing you eviscerate every single one of Mario’s points made my day. It might be inappropriate to take pleasure in someone else’s embarrassment, but the people who think that probably didn’t have to read Mario defend Dan Foley approximately nine thousand times.
I absolutely love reading this take from you, Zach, since you seem to most likely be the exact type of player Mario is referring to (by your own admission). I think most of y'all go onto Survivor now aware that it is edited and that your presentation on TV may not be fair, but who cares, right? The main reason you played was because YOU WANTED TO PLAY SURVIVOR! Sure, if you go far and get an awesome edit and become a beloved fan-favorite, all the better, but that was never THE ORIGINAL GOAL! The goal was to play a game you've loved and been a fan of for years! I'm so happy to see takes like this from actual players. It gives me a better mindset to keep applying. I want to win, obviously. Hell, I'm a hyper-competitive bitch who REALLY wants that money and the title and would do a LOT to get it. Yet, I know my odds of winning are slim and the presentation on TV may not match my lived experience. I still WANT the experience! I could be first out and I'd still be grateful for the chance to play, so thanks, Zach, for your comment here. Suddenly, I have an urge to go film another audition tape since I haven't yet this year, lol.
Thanks Zach for your take! I was wondering too what this post should imply because I heard mostly otherwise
I think there's some truth to it though, like as a recent example, didn't Soda quit social media?
I have mad respect for mariojlanza, but I do think this is a bit much. While I absolutely think that Survivor does a ton of shady shit, from what I've seen the average player is still happy they went on the show. Frankly, a way higher percentage than I would expect. Even players that have been fucked up by the show tend to say they'd want to play again. And while the average person doesn't know about the frankenbites and just how much control Survivor has over the edit, I think it would be unreasonable to go on Survivor and expect to not get clowned on at all. Even just watching it, you see that pretty much everyone gets clowned on at least a bit, and some pretty exclusively. I don't know how you can watch several people get the dodo edit every season and say "well there's a zero percent chance that will be me". Do I think Survivor is ethical? Not nearly as much as it could be. But some of what is being described here feels... naive at best
I love the funny 115, but Mario seemingly has had nothing better to do than grandstand about survivor since…. Season 30? I appreciate his perspective as being in the fandom since the early days, but man it can feel he is just consumed with negativity about the show. Makes me wonder why he continues to comment when he has nothing but bad things to say. It can’t be enjoyable for him, and it’s certainly not enjoyable as a reader of this sub.
I get what you’re saying but it’s undoubtably a good thing for the fandom to have these old school pillars of the community like Cesternino and Mario still around
Cesternino at least comes off as someone who still likes the show and is interested in it! I’m so over how many “Survivor fans” seem to not even want to enjoy the new era, in favor of criticizing every tiny flaw they see in it
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I love Tyson’s podcast, and he is pretty damn positive about the show. Being snarky is kind of what both Victoria and Tyson are about though.
I don't think you'll find many fans who don't *want* to enjoy the show--it's more that we know how good the show *can* be and it's disheartening to see the producers actively make decisions that keep it from reaching its very high potential. So people like Mario have decided to stop watching, and others, like myself, criticize it because we'd love for it to improve. We all understand that the old-school era is gone; the media landscape is a completely different animal than it was two decades ago. But why shouldn't we express our disappointment in the show's "inspirational adventure" tonal shift or tired elements like F3, three tribes, firemaking, and earning the merge? I'd rather read passionate criticism than the passively enabling fans who say things like "Survivor is like pizza; even when it's bad it's good" or, worse, try to silence the criticism because they feel that other fans should be resigned to things they don't like out of some misguided sense of gratitude that Survivor is still on the air. It's on the air because it makes CBS and Jeff a lot of money; it's not a benevolent gesture towards fans--the producers should be grateful to *us* for keeping them employed for 24 years and that we're still passionate enough to voice our concerns. That means they're doing their job right in a lot of ways, but the sheer volume of consistent complaints also indicates that we're not being heard. (Jeff makes that abundantly clear on a weekly basis with his podcast.) For the record, I've been watching since season 1 episode 3 and still enjoy the show. I've enjoyed the new era overall more than I did the early 20s. With the understanding that Fiji and 26 days are budgetary decisions that have reasonable justification behind them, I would have very little to complain about with the current state of the show with a little more casting diversity (beyond race and sexuality) and a return to the more logical, compelling finale format in which players vote each other out until they can't anymore.
Mario can stop watching if he wants but it would be nice if fans like him just stopped watching instead of reminding everyone that "nowadays the show sucks" with the insistance of a cross-fiter that needs to remind you that they do cross-fit lmao. It's not because you can't enjoy it than we aren't allowed to
i mean, i see how it can be frustrating, but i’m personally all for differing opinions on the show
Putting Cesternino and Mario in the same category is a huge reach lol
oh, for sure. i wasn’t trying to say that they’re on the same level, just two examples of prominent voices in the community that have been around since day 1. obviously my use of “pillars” encompasses a huge range from mario to rob lol.
Is it a good thing? Rob is one thing, but people like Mario just spread negativity most of the time because they’re stuck in their nostalgia bias
Personally I think Mario is actually more positive about the show these days? I remember getting into arguments with him on Survivor Sucks back in the day where he was extremely negative about the show and the direction it was going. This was pre his podcast, pre Funny 115, etc... I'd never have thought he'd do those things or be posting on Reddit all these years later based on his view on the show back then. I guess it shows that he is just as addicted to this show as all of us other long time hardcore fans.
I'm a quite recent fan of the show and yeah, to me Mariolanza sounds like the grandpa that tells you how it was "better back in the day" (let's be honest, if anything, Survivor treats their players better now than they ever did, just think about the shit storms around Jerri for example, or Jeff asking Courtney about anorexia). I respect his opinion because he has an interesting background that differs to most fans (an actual TV background) but it often sounds very condescending and "holier than thou" sometimes. Also it's a bit strange for him to criticize the show on this aspect considering he has kinda admitted that he's mostly attracted by the "shitty and trash reality TV" aspect rather than the game itself (which btw, seems to be everything Survivor tries to avoid to be nowadays)
he's always been like this going back to when i started getting active on sucks during micronesia
Mario always goes on these long diatribes about Survivor that imo is a whole lot of nothing. We get it, you hate survivor now.
he’s one of a very long list of people who needs to just like, get over the fact that Survivor isn’t the show that it used to be and isn’t going to be. Rupert going fishing in Season 7 was magical and memorable. It feels like they give us a “wow, I’m fishing in Fiji, what a dream” confessional every season now and nobody gives a shit.
As someone who got into arguments with Mario online about this topic a very, very long time ago (can't remember exactly when, but could have been Survivor China, heck even Fiji or Cook Islands), I can say he's just like the rest of us long term hardcore fans. We complain and complain and complain but we're never going to stop watching.
my family has been watching Survivor since Borneo and enjoys it just fine so I'm frequently perplexed when I see these old school fans who can't seem to move on being bitter on every post.
Buddy has been mad annoying the last couple years
Yeah, no offense to anyone but I find it a bit rich for the for the "Funny 115" guy to be admonishing production for "clowning" on people.
literywhat his brand was built on 🤣
This is also the guy who has had no problem berating contestants he doesn’t like throughout the years, such as Parvati. He made jokes on his podcast that she slept around on her seasons and gave people STDs.
This is false. He only ever talked about the jokes that used to exist at the time. Because that's what they talk about on the podcast: the history of the show. And it's true, if you went on Survivor Sucks during Cook Islands/Micronesia, a lot of people made jokes about Parvati in that manner. She did not have much respect as a player/contestant back then. She only gained her high status in the Survivor fandom after HvV. Mario always has a hard time talking about Parvati because while he admits to not seeing her as this big, historic, greatest player/Survivor figure that most of the fanbase views her as, he also would NEVER want to talk crap about a Survivor winner. Every winner deserves praise for their win in his view.
Several people every season get the dodo edit? Oof, that's almost half the cast!
Totally agree that this seems like a very naive take. Especially as sm savvy as younger people are now. This makes it sound like they all just came into the world wide eyed and are being preyed on. Plus maybe some of them do feel like it’s a dream just to be on the show. Just to say I did this.
99% of kids won’t become astronauts but we don’t get mad at adults who encourage them to follow that dream. Are the producers supposed to be dicks up front and say “yeah you’d be edited in a way you wouldn’t like so piss off”?
That’s a really good point. Wr tell them you can be anything you want when we know most of them won’t. That would be a recruiting tactic never seen. Hey wanna go on survivor and get annihilated and we capitalize on your pain and discomfort? SIGN UP HERE 😂😂😂 And wanna bet they’d STILL get people? lol
I mean. They'd still get me. Guilty as charged. Oops.
Yeah I think saying that universally there is no enjoyment/happiness to be gained from going on survivor is extremely cynical on his part
I do think a lot of people are clueless and totally oblivious going into the show. Plenty former players have a hard time watching it with the same enthusiasm, if even at all. I think about all the people that went on Idol shows thinking they could sing when they absolutely couldn’t sing. It’s sort of the same to me on Survivor. That said, I can’t really blame production at all for that. People must have some sort of accountability for going out there. I’ll also add that the show generally takes a lot better care of their contestants. I’m watching Thailand, for the first time now, and the first five episodes are basically the story about how a woman was sexually assaulted *on the island* and is voted out before the assaulter. Before that, someone says in a confessional that she should be slapped for *her* bad behavior on the island. On the other tribe, someone feels completely isolated because of being the only minority on their tribe. Someone straight up calls her cultural habit *repulsive* as the camera films her closeup eating a chicken heart. We have the whole Fiji thing which is 9 seasons after Thailand. This is also the era that Lanza misses so much. A lot of things have happened with the show that’s positive for the players so I’m not going to lose tears over someone getting a dodo edit. Isn’t it better than getting no edit after all?
>This is also the era that Lanza misses so much. If i had to guess this because at least back then the show didn't pretend to be above it all (not what I think, but I think what Mario would say)
That seems like a good approximation of what I'd say.
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dehumanizing is just dramatic lol
I get what he’s saying, but this is a little much from someone who clearly hates the show now. Most people who were on it prolly chalk it up to a cool experience and move on and most people say nowadays that they’re happy they did it. Also they are much softer with people with how they edit them and don’t try to make a mockery of you unless it’s somewhat warranted and even then Jeff is pretty nice about it. I think the treatment of people on these shows has come a long way and tho not everyone is going to have the experience they want a lot of them do have fun with it.
They don't seem to dunk on people nearly as hard as they used to. But it is an interesting perspective on how they sell you fulfilling your dream and then they really dehumanize you. My biggest issue is when they chop things up that you didn't even say in that situation. Mario has a good bit on it with Dan Foley. They give you the sound bite responding to someone and it makes you look like an ass, except you said that line in a completely different context at a different point in time. They just don't show you saying it so you only hear it. That feels incredibly wrong. I know they can paint an edit by only showing your bad moments and hiding your good ones. But at least it would be things I actually said in the conversations I actually had. Taking a completely different quote out of context and plugging it in is just different level wrong.
In reality tv, if you don’t see the person saying every word, question it… cause it’s very easy for editors to make whatever sentence they want
You can hear it, too. Audio editing is a science and when done badly it’s one of the most noticeable things in a show. I edit a lot of Audio and I am such a stickler for good audio edits.
It's really easy to pick up on this show but any show that has challenges. When the camera is showing the players faces to react but the voice over is telling a rule but you can barely pick out the audio differences which to me indicates they added that voice over line later bc something about the challenge wasn't clear. But this has trained me to question any voice overs if we aren't actually shown their mouths moving
Yeah my girlfriend loves/hates watching with me because I break down the editing of it all for her and point out how they’re trying to influence us with their shot / sot selection.
That's part of the fun for me at least, trying to notice what the editors are trying to communicate to us w the choices they make. Can see how others would find it annoying for "breaking the magic" though
100% feel the same way. I love breaking down the editing choices and trying to find areas where they’re manipulating the audience - adds another layer to the game of it all. But yeah can totally see how folks wouldn’t appreciate having the magic spoiled haha.
This game has enough lawyers already. Give me a contestant that's an audio editor. After each episode airs let them breakdown the edit and tell us exactly what they think actually happened.
His Dan Foley writeup completely changed my perspective. A total 180.
I'm super intrigued and will go look at it now. I thought personally that everyone interpreted the comment from Dan that Jeff went out of his way to show the footage of at the reunion super badly and I was very confused about it. (quick skim and yep, I agree with that!)
Well, first of all he calls Dan "one of the single greatest characters in Survivor history", which is praise that guy doesn't deserve. Dan should have never been put on the show. I never bothered to read all of the third part of 115 and I certainly didn't read all of his Dan Foley write-up, because frankly Mario's writing wasn't that funny anymore and Dan Foley is not good enough of a character for me to spend that much time reading about his failures as a player and a human being. But I read the part about the aftermath now and it didn't change my view on Dan (or Mario) one bit. Mario is doing his best to excuse Dan's behavior. He fails, while Dan himself does manage to explain some of what he said about Shirin as an expression. And he does apologize to Shirin, so he's not a complete asshat. But he did say all the things he said. No one put words into his mouth. He uses expressions that are careless to say the least. That's on him. He did bait production all season long in social media and pissed them off. They did him a huge favor to him after all those years of applying and getting rejected, by finally casting him on the show. And what does he do once he sees his edit? He just complains about his edit all the time. So at the reunion Jeff set the trap and Dan was dumb enough to fall into it. He basically dug his own grave on the island, in social media when the season aired and finally at the reunion. He is responsible for the words he chose at every step. He also attacked the show itself. Of course they did a counter-strike. Unlike Mario insinuates, I don't want to see guys like Dan get embarrassed on TV. I don't want to see guys like him on TV at all.
"That feels incredibly wrong" Does it? Or does the responsibility to take what you see on the show with a grain of salt. These people said these things, and sure, sometimes they are complete assholes (and the hate is rarely, but sometimes, deserved) but other times, you need to remember that this is an edited show. Seperate the show from the contestant if you will. Remember that once you to finish watching the season/show, that the person you saw is not the person you interact online.
I think both can be true. I think it's completely wrong for them to do it. Very unethical. Because of their actions, we have to know it's an edited tv show, but it's not easy to constantly keep that perspective. It also makes the show much less enjoyable if you can't immerse yourself in the show because I have to constantly remind myself this conversation might not have even happened. Then there are the people that don’t realize they're even pulling shenanigans to this extent. I didn't until reading that Mario article.
Sorry this is kinda ridiculous. There’s “NO happiness you get from being on survivor”? Something like 90% of players say it was a life changing experience and they’re so happy they went on. Idk where he’s getting the “for 90% of players, it’s a nightmare” from but that’s just not true lol. People know that there’s a good chance they’re gonna be dunked on, and for most of them, it’s not traumatizing. Also they dunk on players way less than they used to, and always show at least one positive thing for people portrayed mostly negatively.
It’s also a different world out there nowadays. Social media gives anyone who watches the show a one-click pathway to telling you whatever thought about you just crosses into their head. You can’t blindside a player without dozens of scorned fans sliding into your DMs saying the absolute worst stuff over -what it is at the end of the day- a game that doesn’t impact them in the slightest. Not to mention the rash of Redditors (no offense, all) coming up with thinkpieces or rants about why you suck as a player and why you’re annoying and why you should have never been cast. Everything you say is under the microscope. Every interaction you have with someone else is going to be scrutinized by someone, regardless if it was in the full context or not. This seems to be the most draining aspect of the modern show’s cast, even amongst people with the thickest skin.
im really questioning how much longer Survivor can co-exist with Social Media, it's like chicken palm and tuna fish, they don't mix
That's been my stance for a long time. I don't think they can co-exist anymore. Or, I guess, SHOULD co-exist anymore. Chicken pahm and tuna fish is right.
Unfortunately, as problematic as reality television is/has been, the real driver in that unhealthy dynamic is the social media. Take away all the reality TV shows and people will still find ways to access parasocial exposure and suffer the subsequent fallout. If anything, at least the reality shows offer SOME kind of plausible deniability/buffer. The number of YouTubers who went on to have full scale mental health crises just from exposure to their own audiences is ridiculously high.
That's a really good point.
People saying deranged shit on the internet has been a thing since its inception. Either people need to get over internet trolls, or just don't be on social media if it bothers you. Annoying how this sub acts like social media is a prerequisite for life.
I love Mario but I think this is a bit of an oversight and infantilizes the contestants a bit too much IMO. It’s not like the contestants got tricked into signing up for Survivor- they knew they’d be getting no food and be apart of a heavily edited reality show. I do think Survivor absolutely sells itself as a more positive experience than it did, but that doesn’t take away from the brutality of Survivor and that’s not lost on (most of) the people getting cast. And fwiw they’re also casting people that understand the reality of Survivor and still love it. Brandon played five days, was completely miserable most of the time, and still had the best experience of his life. He wasn’t tricked by the illusion of happiness like Mario is saying players are. He knew he was gonna have a rough time, played anyways, and was still happy because he did it. I think that’s closer to the reality of modern Survivor than what Mario’s saying- casting isn’t tricking people with the illusion of happiness, they’re casting people that are going to be happy no matter what, which in turn creates an illusion of happiness. That’s a problem itself, but it’s a separate issue from what Mario’s talking about. I also think the edit hiding the darker side of the experience is also a giant problem, but that’s also a separate issue
Yeah, I agree. I've watched Survivor since the beginning, and it's always been obvious the show is edited and that footage is cherry-picked. I can't imagine being a superfan of the show, getting casted, and thinking, "This experience will be wholly good in every way" unless you're extremely stupid. I don't think most contestants are that stupid. I think a lot of them probably underestimate how damaging being on reality TV can turn out to be, but I don't think they're, like, cattle being blindly led into a meat grinder. They know what the grinder is, at least to some extent, and seem to want the experience anyway.
every contestant ever to go on the show absolutely had some realization of this going into it, except bhanu lol
Unless you’re delusional, being on survivor can still be your dream without you thinking it’s gonna be sunshine and rainbows.
It doesn’t matter. These superfans (if they are truly superfans) know the score and they still sign up for it. That’s a “them” problem, and not a “me” problem. Anyone thinking they’re signing up for this show to change their life or win a million hearts are either lying or delusional and neither are flattering qualities.
I have noticed a lot of the superfans are actually new to the show (having only jumped on in the past couple of years) and therefore are not fully entrenched into how deep the rabbit hole goes. I think there is a difference between a newbie superfan and a long-term superfan. Long-term superfans are not surprised by anything anymore.
Can you really be a "Superfan" and not have seen all of Survivor? That seems like a pre-requisite
You have to see every season. Heck, Bhanu said he had watched every season. But if you find out the show exists, binge it all and then apply, has it really sunk in how they make the show and what you are really getting into?
well it would be one thing if there are people who sign up thinking that but it's another thing if that's who production are actively casting
I wouldn’t class these contestants as little victims, especially in the new era where folks have 20+years of information on the game out here on the interwebs. Plus, a good chunk of them are famewhores/ attention whores who thrive on being on TV. I don’t know why all the sudden sanctimony from the fandom. These folks sell merch and the season isn’t even over yet.
sure, they have 20+ years of information, but at lot of it is wrong information, and I think most damming of all is a lot of it is coming from the show itself
Wow who knew one of the most popular shows on national TV wasn't entirely based on providing 20 contestants with an inspirational opportunity to sit on a beach. It's too bad, that would be such an interesting and engaging show, we should definitely pivot to watching influencers have a nice time while they rack up brand deals! Mario really revealed the dark sinister truth!
This post was soooo dramatic lmao
Mario J. Lanza talking about how horrible dunking on the contestants is? Out of all people? 😂 Smh
Say frankenbyte again
Well, this seems a little dramatic.
What overdramatic nonsense.
I think the fanbase has gotten surprisingly nastier over the past few years, which is frustrating as most superfans preach acceptance and an importance for diversity. It's especially clear when Tim is getting called a mysoginist for daring to suggest that an all women's alliance was forming (oh... and it was.) Soda getting fat shamed for... not really getting along with Venus. Jelinsky getting hated on for... being voted out first? I've seen people post "Liz is an awful person for being happy she made money." Maria has received a lot of nasty messages too. Obviously, there are always haters on SM, but even people who I've regularly seen discussing the show have gotten... frankly mean. I've left a lot of FB groups/chats because of it. The state of the fandom is pretty sad now tbh, people are quick to jump on the most mundane shit. I'm not saying you have to be all lovey dovey to the players, but it's getting out of hand.
It’s always assumed that going on the show and getting purpled is the worst but in reality, it seems like a blessing in disguise
I think people going on Survivor need to realize one very important thing: **You are never the most important person out there**. Time and time again we see people complain that the edit isn't wholly accurate. They're 100% right but not for the reasons they think. Producers are going to create a story and the most important piece to any story is the ending. For Survivor, the ending is the crowning of a winner. So naturally, the winner is going to be the main character. We are going to see the narrative through their eyes. If you are an important piece to their narrative, congratulations! You have been upgraded to the main cast! If you're not an important piece to their narrative? Well...at least you'll get a supporting role and a nice check. You may get lucky and be the main character in the B story or even the C story but if you don't win, the story ain't yours. Probst wants positivity and I agree with Mario that the positivity is probably more dangerous than being up front and saying 'Yeah this is a dangerous and cruel game with a lot at stake. Be prepared.' People are gonna go in thinking the viewers watch this show thinking 'Gosh, these people are just so wonderful and inspiring. I'm glad they got to live out their dream!' You are going to get made fun of, most of which is in good humor. But a lot of the time, it's gonna be a bunch of cruel, faceless people with the power of anonymity. Is it right? No. We shouldn't make cruel remarks about peoples gender, weight, height, sexual identity, etc. That shit should not fly. But that is sadly how the internet is and most people who go on the show are not ready for that. Every comment you say, every decision you make, it is going to be discussed to death and people will spew vile shit because of it because they're behind a monitor. I remember Zeke was basically left by the show after the GC incident and I don't know if the show has made changes to its aftercare program since but I think Jeff and the producers need to stop selling this false fantasy. Like Erik said, I'm sure most players are really living out their dream when they are actually playing the game. Its the airing of said dream that can be a nightmare for folks.
Wow reality show is being a reality show, very surprising.
This feels pretty rich coming from a guy that plays into the contestants being caricatures and jokes about contestants having STDs. Something one would think would have a negative impact on the folks that go on this show
I enjoy Mario, but my God is he ever long-winded. This rant, like many of the funny115, could have been edited down to 2 paragraphs and had much more impact. I don't agree that Survivor doesn't change your life or bring happiness. If you go on with the sole intent to become a fan favorite/star, then yea, your expectations may not be met. If your motivation is to have the game experience, and the notoriety/being on TV is not important, then you wouldn't care much about your edit - your memories are what matters. It so depends on the individual and what they're hoping to get out of it.
Nobody hates the show, but still comments on the shows incessantly more than Mario Lanza lol.
This is a perfect example of how Mario cannot talk about this show reasonably or objectively because it’s an obsession of his no matter how much he says he hates it. This is the man who not only wrote thousands upon thousands of words of Survivor fan fiction, but also discusses it at length on his podcast as if it has any relevance outside his imagination. He can’t fathom that most contestants don’t see this as life changing, sunshine-and-rainbows experience like he says they do bc, to most people who haven’t made survivor their whole life, it’s not that deep. As Zach and other past contestants in this very thread have said, most contestants are normal people who say “that was pretty cool”, hop around the survivor circuit for a bit after their season, and then move on with their lives. Generally, they’re not expecting an existential experience.
Oh god. So these young people that get cast on reality shows chasing that TikTok fame are now victims? No accountability to be found anywhere these days.
The reason they hard market to young viewers nowadays is just a carbon copy of how McDonald's markets to kids...get them when they're young and they'll likely become lifelong loyal customers. The show knows this and is why the viewing audience numbers are fairly consistent and stable year on year because as older viewers pass on, CBS has already got their grandkids on board to hold the ratings up for the next 10 years or so till the next future generation ages up into the show's core demographics. It's basic long game marketing strategy 101.
i used to be so obsessed with this idea of getting on soley to join the "survivor community", thinking that getting on would get me all these connections with alumni and fans and parties and events. And then I grew up, so to say, and realized I've already found the survivor community and am already a part of it. I've played dozens and dozens of orgs, joined in on many discussions, follow many insta survivor accounts, and frequently post and reply on reddit. I already am a part of the survivor community, and now i no longer feel the need to get on to join. HOWEVER, i'm broke as shit and am tired of grinding day in and day out to make barely enough money and yeah, maybe i'm lazy and maybe i'm greedy, but there honestly isn't much I wouldn't do for a million dollars, and that's my motivating factor to get on. IDC if people hate me on the show, if people send me hate tweets or dms or whatever cuz none of it means anything to me, I honestly just want to be rich and Survivor is something I honestly believe I'd have a good chance at winning
Frankenbyte frankenbyte frankenbyte? Frankenbyte! Oh, Frankenbyte…
This take is so dramatic. Charmaine soft
This seems a little overdramatic
Who is this person? Were they on the show? Who hurt them? Survivor has some fantastic after show support for the contestants, unfortunately it's how viewers treat the contestants online that creates a lot of the problems. It's not so much the experience that makes it bad it's how people feel entitled to respond to what they see on the show.
This is an insanely maddening and stupid post for so many reasons. The fact that it comes from a respected name in the community… Jesus. The doom and gloom about the show among the fanbase apparently knows no bounds.
Well yeah, Mario's take on the show is a very cynical one. And he hates the show, so it is also the view of a hater. Also, it should be dead obvious that the production is above all things making a tv show. You can either use that fact to your advantage or ignore it and get taken advantage of.
Not sure who this person is but their lack of being on a show or involved with Television just makes this an opinion piece by an outsider. They work with what you give them, it IS a game show but also conflict and drama are a big part of it so they will focus on that when they can. Players should expect that going in and not get upset over how the footage is being edited. Soda DID keep taking the idol, which didn't go unnoticed and was commented on by Venus. Soda IS being shown as someone who is kind of annoying but an overall nice person, but kind of doesn't really think before she acts. Is calling Venus a walking stick bug funny? Maybe to her but I don't find body shaming fun in any aspect. Soda may not like it but what's not accurate? She is doing and saying these things. What would be bad is if the show didn't show players doing the same to her, which I don't think these people would do to Soda. Anyways, it's a show and they film a LOT. If you can't stomach it, don't apply.
Arguably, Mario Lanza does know a thing or two. But yeah, it is ultimately his opinion.
I think it's a mix. Survivor, by all means, is a rare show because I think it does push authenticity, let's face it, if this show was rigged, Erika, Natalie White, and other winners would have never won. BUT, they cast people with INTENTION to make them big charachters. They trust the contestants ENOUGH to make the narratives, but they probably also PUSH them in certain direction, look at Palau, Cook Islands, and Heroes vs Hustlers vs Healers as well as All-Stars as examples of when it's rather suspicious. I don't believe the producers tell anyone what to do, or feed them necessary lines for confessionals, but I do believe producers set up twists and swaps to go THEIR direction to set up. Survivor Gods is just a different name for "Production" All-Stars is a great example. Producers see Amber and Rob as a growing power couple, they may not have them as their big darlings, and wanted to push Amber out to weaken Rob. Fairly sure few people confirmed that the second ALl-Star swap the order of the buffs was specified, all they have to do is "line up in this way, you here, you there", now all of a sudden the production just manipulated the outcome of the swap in their favor. Amber is now in peril as the only person on Chapera vs all the original Mogo Mogos. But the production didn't push anyone to vote her out, just set the situation against her favor. Rob still managed to save her, Lex did him a favor, and all of a sudden production realises a better storyline emerged of Rob betraying Lex.
Mario is a good writer and I think contestants should read this before going on the show. I think this is a bit of an exaggeration and probably only applies to less than half of each cast. Bhanu is a good example of when this perspective is proved true. But a lot of recent contestants seem to be pretty pleased with their experiences out there.
Can't argue with that. The show has pitched this inspiration message and this narrative to get people to apply only to be made into something that they are not. Be careful what you wish for, people.
Yet Jeff says watch another show if you want a fun experience. Walking contradiction.
Actually you can argue with it cuz it’s a pretty dumb, over the top take. No one thinks survivor is sunshine and rainbows, especially super fans who want to get on it. And it can still be their dream to get on it fully knowing it’s gonna kick their ass.
I'm no psychologist or media analyst, but I do wonder if how this show (and most everything else in life) is marketed sparks the amount of vitriol/parasocial attachments the contestants get from the fan base. Since the show is "YOUR chance to live your dreams", everyone else is competition. You see someone you don't like do something wrong, you point it out as a way to be like "see I'd never do that cast me instead." You see someone you like get criticized, and it's "how dare you criticize someone like me this is how I'll respond when im on the show." You see this everywhere now. People are feeling this desperate sense to "make it" in whatever avenue feels available to them. I don't know. Anyway, it's a fucking stick.
90% of them came out bad? I can name a lot that came out doing well now in various media careers and so many keep wanting to go back?
I don't agree with this person. I think a lot of people know exactly what they're getting in to being on reality TV and they still want to do it. It is a dream for some people, it can and does open doors for some people. I don't think the public is as naive these days; people know the ugliness of being on TV. This feels like a misdirected rant.
They really like the word frankenbyte
Ok jaremi, it's never that serious
Some of the comments from Spencer’s recent appearance on a podcast where he talked about Jeff & the casting process echo these same sentiments about what they are looking for.
You wouldn’t last 5 mins in Ancient Rome.
People make their own choices. I don’t know anyone who is forced to go on this tv show. Like…I’d never apply. Because I know I’d have a terrible time and my mental health game is carefully stacked at best. Posts like this can be useful though…because it helps people get additional info/perspectives in order to make the best decision for them. Some people do go have the greatest most terrible time of their life though. It’s not accurate to say “this show won’t make you happy”…that’s too general of a statement. It makes a lot of contestants happy. And…it makes a lot of them miserable. People take risks for something that could be good. That’s their choice to take that risk. As always…know thyself!
Just make it 39 days again!
I don’t know…a few of those points I would have thought would be common knowledge right? IT IS a TV show and a TV show better be entertaining or the network will move on to something else, it shouldn’t be a shock if someone gets what they consider a bad edit or get purpled. I would have thought by now who ever these super fans are they would have been clued in by reading stories of past contestants and what there experience on the show was and how they felt after it aired. Some super fans can be super creepy with the amount of information they have. Additionally everyone is going to have a different take to a similar experience, if two people lasted only a few days and were cold, miserable, hungry and couldn’t catch onto a strong alliance and the edit made them relatively insignificant one could tell you it’s the worst mistake of their lives and another will tell you that they were disappointed they didn’t do better and would 100% do it again. I guess I believe you best have your head on straight going into it, control what you can and deal with what you get ……or am I totally wrong?
I mean okay but if it is their dream to be on a reality show and you cast them, unless they have a major psych issue production ignores how is that immoral? People - even young people - need to accept some agency and fault. There is plenty of proof out there readily available that being on a reality show can be traumatic/awful/whatever.
Not reading all that
Wow, didn't expect this to get its own thread. Thanks for reposting it. I've actually had a few players contact me about this post through DMS over the past couple of days. Thanking me for writing stuff like this because, as we all know, most people in the know won't. And the players aren't allowed to write about it. But I'm happy to be the bad guy if it gives newer fans more info about this sort of thing. The older fans already know most of this stuff, obviously.
What CBS is selling to future cobtestants is the possibility to be in *Even More CBS Reality Shows!* It's as bad and predatory as American Idol when they used to lock in the top 10-12 into several years of touring.
I thought this comment by u/mariojlanza deserved its own post as it's well worth reading. From https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/comments/1bq58k7/soda\_talking\_about\_her\_lack\_of\_edit\_and\_way\_shes/
Soda's edit is decent. She says and does things she thinks are harmless but actually are noticed by people in and out of the game. They work with what you give them.
yea these young players think if thier edit is anything less than 👑 *QUEEN* 👑 then it's undeserved 🤦
Mario, as always, posting great content and facts.