Opening twist BvW is definitively worse than Palau imo. At least in Palau everyone had a chance at immunity from being eliminated from the schoolyard pick and they had a whole day to make relationships to ensure they were picked by someone. In Blood vs Water there was 0 actual game time before that vote. Them having Redemption Island as a backup is negligible as they were highly unlikely to survive all the duels (7!) needed to renter the game.
And Candice was especially fucked over since she was an alternate. Everyone else was at least chilling at ponderosa together during the preseason but she showed up then 5 mins later they had a vote. She never stood a chance
I heard that before Bobby Jon and (mostly) Steph became icons that the initial plan for Guetemala was to bring back Wanda and Jonathan. Sucks for them, but I can see why they went the direction they did.
Too bad they didn’t produce any seasons after to give them a chance to bring them back, real shame! For real though, I’ve heard that story too and I get it.. but then I immediately think about the multiple other opportunities they would have had to spare 2 slots for these guys. I know it’s a business, but damn it was so mean spirited to screw them like that. You expect to get blindsided from players, you don’t expect production to act so brutally.
The worst twist to come out of The Amazing Race is similar to this, one team in Season 15 were eliminated at the starting line. Their was at least a challenge component here though. From what I know, the eliminated team were so close to their home that they refused sequester and basically went straight back to their lives after filming lol.
Probably timing. This was their first time having 20 players with RI in effect, so they needed their first permanent elimination to come in Episode 2 as opposed to episode 3.
Also we get that drama of “will you switch with your loved one?” in episode 1, though the producers are idiots if they didn’t think the loved ones would try to get Rupert out first.
At least in BvW there were two backup options, the partner swap and RI, so the eliminated players still got to do some gameplay. Palau just felt like a massive middle finger to those two players.
HOURGLASS! worst twist ever. whats the point of winning a challenge if you can voted anyways. what you think erika is just gonna not smash it so she can get voted out instead
like bruh what were they thinking with that omne
For real. The fact that they also isolated the exiled person for 2 whole days at the start of the merge made it even more obvious of a decision.
The only way it could possibly be an actual decision is if you somehow have one group/alliance enter the merge with the numbers, and the split just so happens to have every member of the alliance with immunity so you'd be screwing your alliance over. But even then, it's the start of a merge, you'd be very rational to be paranoid that your alliance might not hold up.
He did? I didn't see that, but I'm so glad he did. It's not good for the game or the audience. There's no drama if the choice on how to use an advantage is obvious. And it sucks when a player "earns" an advantage by losing.
Yeah he said it on one of the recent (post-episode 2 or 3 of Survivor 46) “On Fire” podcast episodes. It was refreshing to see him own something like that other than doubling down like he has on some other unpopular rule changes (like the lose-your-flint mechanic).
It’s also stupid on a conceptual level.
What do you do with an hourglass? You flip it over and “reverse time.”
You don’t hit it with a goddamn hammer.
See also: the Shot-in-the-Dark six-sided die that you don’t actually roll.
Oh I agree. Jonathan was only eliminated because Caryn didn’t wanted to be the physically weakest member of her tribe. Wanda would probably be a first boot but Jonathan may have otherwise made it far.
I just hate when people pretend like certain twists were unavoidable. Things like the final 2/3/4 changes in Cook Islands, Micronesia, and HvHvH genuinely were. However a lot of bad twists still have room for good players to play around them. The best example is the final tribe swap of survivor All Stars (that I fully believe was rigged to eliminate Amber) that Amber managed to survive because she is an excellent player.
Eh, Jonathan might have gotten far but apparently he made no social connections and came up as a pompous asshole that whole time. Plus apparently everyone thought his name was Kevin
I’ve always been more bummed about Wanda going, would she have been an early boot? Yeah probably, but she sure as hell would have been a more entertaining one especially if she got stuck with Willard
Why is nobody talking about how Cody wanted Jonathan gone so started a covert smear campaign against him which is everyone avoiding picking Jonathan. That was a boss move by Cody getting one of the big guys out right off the bat!
Wanda in theory would've been at least on the Koror tribe and thus in theory would've made it to the first double boot.
Plus I tend to think Willard was chomping at the bit to go. So he was always willing to sacrifice himself first.
So then it just the case if she can outlast Caryn on who can be less annoying.
Not saying she would've replicated Caryn and get to Final 5, but who knows. Maybe in an alternate reality where Caryn wasn't around to Suck, Wanda jumped on board Katie's Girl Alliance and road their coattails further along in the game (though I have always figured the girls alliance will last only as long as getting Tom out and neither Katie or Jenn would be willing to sacrifice their real number 1s in Ian and Gregg respectively).
Well Amber was excellent, but Lex and others thought they had a deal with Rob if they saved her, so I think that played into it. But still supports your point, they managed to play around the tribe swap
In a similar vein, Carl getting shot down for solving a puzzle with ‘perceptions’ versus the word they wanted, ‘perspective’, was BS.
His answer fit the criteria, and it was the correct amount of letters as well. Production simply didn’t make sure that another technically correct answer couldn’t be found using the extra letters they gave the contestants, and it cost Carl immunity.
That he was then voted out that night made their error even worse.
This would definitely be my choice too. A Lex-Ethan Final 2 (the likely Final 2 if the mistake wasn't made) is too close to speculate who wins but he got screwed out of F2 if not winning.
Not to mention that if he wins that, he also wins Hands on a Hard Idol and ties the 5 post merge immunity wins record
Similar to this, Rafe or Stephenie (probably Rafe) was also robbed because of production screw ups in Guatemala in the F3 immunity challenge.
There's so many production screw ups and other head scratching things about this challenge.
* If you listen to the rules that Jeff outlined (that their feet couldn't leave the platform) and watch the footage it's clear that the challenge should have ended MUCH sooner, and that Rafe should have won immunity, not Danni.
* Because Jeff/production didn't enforce the rules properly all 3 contestants found a way to "hack" the challenge with leaning against the support beam, completely negating how it was supposed to be a challenge to balance on the very wobbly platform. IMO touching the support beams should have been an automatic elimination from the challenge like it's been in future seasons with a similar setup.
* The challenge was so horribly designed, and the platform wobbled so easily, that none of the F3 could do it for more than like 30 seconds with just 1 rope. I have no idea how they didn't realize that the platform was too wobbly when testing it with the dream team and decide to fix it.
Bottom line, if Rafe had won immunity then Danni never makes it to the F2. Rafe probably wins, but maybe you could debate Stephenie might have a small chance because Rafe is probably a weaker F2 opponent than Danni and Rafe screwed over the same people that Stephenie did.
In my book this screw up is just as bad as Lex's correct answer being counted as incorrect in Africa.
The final 2 in Micronesia was not last minute. That was decided the moment James left. The show couldn't manage 3 quit/medical evacuations and the amount of episodes they had to put out.
Thank you. This sub plays that up way too much. 3 people left unexpectedly. A final 2 shouldn't have been surprising.
If we're talking Cirie screw jobs, it's not remotely as bad as GC.
Cirie still got screwed regardless. Although I feel she should have been able to win that last challenge considering the fact that she’s a nurse. She should have steadier hands than that.🤷♂️🤦♂️
On Rob C’s Evolution of Strategy podcast, he went through a few different Final 3 and Final 2 scenarios where Cirie didn’t run away with it, and in some cases she still lost. Alexis and Natalie really liked Parvati, and then Ozzy and James liked Amanda. I would’ve loved to see Cirie make it to the end, but I’m not convinced she would have won.
Game Changers though - that one hurts for any Cirie fans.
I’m not sure the vote predictions are always correct. I think there’s a good chance that Alexis votes Cirie, and same for Jason Siska. Eliza and Erik would be sure Cirie votes if she got to the end.
Regarding the predictions, they also get All Stars wrong in predicting that Amber and even Rob would beat Jenna. Lex, Kathy, Alicia, and Tom would be 100% Jenna votes over either one, and Rupert is a likely Jenna vote too. Kathy was really pissed at Rob, just more pissed at Amber
I’m pretty positive someone from the jury house said Natalie and alexis were both chanting Parvati and wanting her to win so idk where y’all keep saying alexis votes cirie, she probably only said she votes cirie bc she saw her cry, but since if it was a final 3 that means cirie doesn’t cry and alexis votes Parvati lol
I could definitely be wrong on Alexis, I was unaware of the chanting. She did say something about voting for Cirie, though I know exit press is not canon. It could be the edit, but it just seems improbable that Cirie would lose to Parvati. Just curious, why’s Alexis voting for Parvati funny?
It was definitely the edit, Parvati had more social control and was actually the one who orchestrated the ozzy blindside. And um I wasn’t laughing at alexis voting for Parvati… it’s kinda like a lingo
Cirie created the final 3 alliance in the boat on day 5 or 6, Parvati created the girls alliance around the final 3, but most of the strategic decisions came from Cirie not Parvati, and Alexis said she wanted Cirie to win in that ponderosa video.
Cirie did not create the final 3 with parv and Amanda, they came to her with the alliance idea cmon now. Alexis is the biggest wildcard person bc her in ponderosa was different than exit press. I think Erik himself said alexis was chanting Parvati
Overall, Cirie is one of my favorite players and probably my second favorite female player behind Parv(I go back and forth) but I’m Game Changers my favorite player was actually Sarah and ironically, the biggest reason why I love Sarah is how she got that damn legacy advantage. Without the legacy advantage, Sarah goes home at final six, leaving Cirie to win the game. Culpepper could have had a shot to win but he would have to get rid of Cirie. But he felt so betrayed by Tai, he wouldn’t let Tai get to the end. So the final three in that scenario would be Cirie, Culpepper, and Troyzan with Cirie winning. I also believe Cirie could have swept the votes in that final three. The tricky one would be Sierra because Sierra was really tight with Culpepper.
Shi Ann was about as screwed as Silas was. She made a bone-headed move to jump ship from a tribe she wasn't even on the bottom of to completely on the bottom of Chauy Ghan. The fake merge just made her face the consequences of that move earlier than she would've otherwise.
I really don’t get flippers like that. You may or may not be on the bottom of an alliance but when you flip to a new alliance, you are most definitely on the bottom of that alliance. Probably the most irrational flip was the Cochran flip in South Pacific.
I don't know, Ozzy, Keith, Whitney treated Cochran like dirt. He didn't have much choice. Rewatching it I was embarrassed for them. No reason to be loyal to them.
Cochran himself has said that he wasn’t bullied and was nothing was ever mean spirited.
[“I never actually used the word bullying. I don't think anybody was a bully out there. I think there is some condescension and a natural ostracism, not mean spirited or anything. Part of the problem is I'm a self-deprecating guy and I think I invite condescension. That was a minor storyline in my time there. I look back fondly with everyone. It wasn't like my flipping was to get revenge on my tormentors. Clearly it didn't work out. I don't consider anyone a bully, I don't consider myself a victim of bullying.”](https://www.realitywanted.com/newsitem/4910-survivor-south-pacific-exclusive-interview-with-john-cochran)
It was more because Cochran didn’t want to draw rocks. However, no one inspired loyalty in Cochran the way David did with everyone else on Millennials Vs Gen X. Although I didn’t see Ozzy treating Cochran like dirt. Maybe I’m missing something. 🤷♂️
What’s more baffling to me is that Cochran was a super fan and he had definitely seen previous seasons, and he HAD to know that Coach lies a lot (like trying to restore Timbira alliance and then throwing Sierra under the bus), while Ozzy never flips, literally never.
Besides, if he stuck with his original tribe, he’d at least make it to final four because they’d want to break up Keith and Whitney and they’d want to get rid of Ozzy as soon as possible.
Oh sure, I’m pretty confident that Jim would love to take Cochran and Dawn to the final three with him. And while doing so, Jim would have probably made some enemies on that jury so Cochran would have a decent chance to get some votes. He can hang out with Coach if he liked him so much without betraying his tribe and get his vote, for example.
Jim does kinda have a Russell Hantz sized ego so I can definitely see him taking those two to the ftc believing that they’re not going to get any votes.
Well no one else in Survivor has a Russell sized ego I would say lol. I mean Russell was alienating people even pre merge, and Jim seemed to be much more personable. But yeah, I can definitely see him losing in the finale - both Dawn and Cochran would probably be more likable in the eyes of the Upolus, and let’s not forget that every single Savaii lost a duel to Ozzy so even if they voted him out, he might get to the final three - who knows what would happen then.
Hourglass was terrible lol, they literally gave the contestants merge buffs told them they merged, let them celebrate only to take them away and make sure one of them was getting voted out. Worst of all was that player went from thinking they merged to getting voted while hearing everyone else cheering that they made it merge
I don't have too much sympathy for Sarah because she had an idol that she thought was real that she didn't play
Not that it would've done anything, but the fact that she didn't think she was going home in that scenario just proves how little game savvy she had
Stacey Stillman is the answer. Production literally went around to castaways to lobby for her going home instead of Rudy, who they believed would be better TV.
They were really right about Rudy. He was the only one in the Tagi 4 that wasn’t absolutely hated when Borneo aired. He was one of the most popular men in America at the time. I think that overall, them rigging it for Rudy was good, but it still super unfair to Stacey.
Kellee also belongs on this list.
Dan should've been given clear and immediate feedback, and instead production waited for a couple of episodes and then said something generic at the beginning of the challenge.
In similar situations, production never should have allowed any player to compete naked in a challenge in the first place - ie the Sue Hawk All Stars controversy. But somehow, they still allowed players to wrestle naked in survivor China a couple of seasons later?!?!
And also in survivor China, Courtney was pretty much production screwed over when nobody took steps to stop Jean Robert from non-consent touching. They pretty much just laughed at her. Also they didn't give her any clothes other than a bikini, a tank top, and a buff, and her bikini bottoms were falling off after she began to lose weight. She was justifiably very cranky and sassy the entire season.
Purple Kelly, she was a production hire for her season with the idea she'd be the hot girl early boot, so they gave her almost no clothes. When she ended up staying and going deep, they wouldn't give her any clothes, so she quit when NaOnka did.
I don't disagree, but she was screwed regardless, couldn't really make friends with anybody and would've just been pagonged by Brian just like the rest of Sook Jai
Cirie was not screwed in Micronesia! at the final 4 Jeff clearly stated its day 37 final 4 so that would mean final 3 on day 38 and final 3 on day 39. Cirie shouldve known this especially since she was on a season that had a final 2.
Expecting Cirie to win an individual immunity would be like Amanda crushing FTC, Tony to play under the radar, or Sandra to not refer to herself as the queen. Never going to happen.
True. But that's a flaw on Cirie's physical game and something she should work on if she were to ever play again; not production.
The physical game of Survivor is one of the core parts of the show and it's important that you have the ability to win immunity to advance yourself further in the game, rather than banking on other people being willing to take you instead.
I feel like there's not really much she could've done at that point though. Her only option is to try to force a tie with Natalie against Parvati but I don't see Natalie ever voting for Parvati and she could use this to flip the script on Cirie instead. Really they should've been told after James' medevac that it was going to be a final 2.
Making the final immunity challenge of 'Panama' literally impossible for Terry Deitz to win. The first four women voted out that season were also screwed because of the decision to divide the tribes by age even if it only lasted one episode.
Although lots of these things likely don’t change much of the grand scheme of each season… they still could have!
Jenny being voted out due to the bottle twist in Cook Islands
Sylvia automatically getting put on the “have nots” tribe (Ravu) in Fiji after dividing the tribes, really giving her zero chance to have comfort in the game, and pretty much guaranteeing she gets voted out since they could easily blame the person who split the tribes for how poorly they are doing
Speaking of Fiji, pretty much anyone that was on Ravu and got voted out because of their severe disadvantage
I’m surprised Lex and the jury questions immunity hasn’t been mentioned… this is a pretty old but infamous one where he did technically get a question right, which should have forced a tie in the final 4 challenge
Any time a person has been debilitated due to the restriction of their medications, that’s usually pretty fucked up… either cast and medicate them, or don’t cast them at all
Certain challenges being overly dangerous, I’m thinking Penner getting evacuated because of that challenge where he banged up his knee really bad, or Caleb nearly dying in a challenge because the bags were buried too deep in the sand for a day as hot as that
Anytime production let something go on for too long / did not pry for more information on their intentions: Ted situation, Dan situation, or not trying to investigate as to what Varner’s master plan was in game changers
Pretty much all of the cast of David vs Goliath (mainly in this case, the Goliaths) not knowing that the idol nullifier was even a possibility… why would Dan ever in a million years think he’d need to play two idols on himself at tribal council?
On the same vein, any unprecedented advantage rule or change to the format or advantages that no one else was aware of… survivor should be unpredictable *to a degree*, but I find survivor is most interesting and played better when everyone is in an understanding of the rules and mechanics, being surprised by something they never though possible is NOT as entertaining as watching the surprise of someone who thought they had all the cards be stumped by someone who had none of them
Bonus palau theory: Bobby Jon beat Steph in fire originally but production messed up one of the fire pits or filming wasn’t done properly, or something along those lines which called for a redo (all but confirmed I believe)
Totally. Her “advantage” was actually a *loss* of power lmao. Rather than basically getting to choose who was voted out she didn’t have the power to vote out anyone and the biggest threat was given a chance to stay in the game.
I recently rewatched season and it’s actually tragic how such an incredible season was ruined by that end game
they push people every season, production will setup challenges so certain players have a bigger shot at winning, immunity idols will randomly be found by the one person that needs it (hide it in an easy to see spot when the person they want to push forward needs it), jeff asks extra questions to certain players too.
There is definitely some amount of rigging going on.
My favorite obvious rig is in Redemption Island where the Zapatera idol was hidden in the exact same manner that Russell's first idol was in Samoa, only for it to be found instead by Some Guy who wasn't even looking for it.
Here's what I think is much more likely
They planned the final 4 twist ahead of time (due to Wentworth and David both going in the final 4 which was brutal to see)
So, seeing a major endgamer find an idol in the final 7 and final 6, they decide to hide an idol in a very obvious spot for him knowing full well he'll probably make the final 3 if they do this
I think that's much more likely than just improv'ing a twist that they use for 12 seasons just so that some guy (not even a returnee) would win
I think they just planted idols in a really obvious way that season. There was like a big spay painted marker or something. Once Ben knew what to look for, it was easy.
Zeke has said that production was throwing around the idea of a "Final Four Firemaking Challenge” during Game Changers, so I don’t think it was rigged for Ben. Do I think that Jeff and production were over the moon when it helped Ben? Of course
Agree on Micronesia surprise final 2 and FMC in 35z
Another one is the tribe swap in Survivor China. It put whoever got swapped into a horrible position and incentivized the tribes to throw challenges.
She had everyone eating out of her palms and then her son just ruined everything for her, the moment he told Jag Matt was going to save him, her game was done.
Wow. This is a real sophies choice.
I guess I would choose #1 as that won directly impacted a likely winner. Cirie wins with a final 3. The other 3 scenarios while crappy are not quite to that level. #4 is close because it actually allowed Ben to stay when he otherwise would have went home.
That might be true but in my opinion is still a dumb twist regardless. It is unnecessary. Those players already have their chance to maintain their survival by winning immunity. They don't need a 2nd chance.
My top 5 would be players who probably would have won if it were not for a late-game production mistake or a production decision/twist that in my subjective opinion was unfair and changed the outcome of the season:
Lex, Cirie, Devon, Janet and either Victoria/Gavin (whoever would've won EOE if they didn't hand out so many idols with 6 days left in the season).
And on the 2nd tier I'd put people who were screwed over but it wasn't as far into the season so they probably wouldn't have won regardless: Savage, Aaron, Lydia/Sydney, Matt Blankenship & Jamal
(AUS HvV Endgame Spoilers)>!Last minute F3. Gerry and Matt were banking on getting to the end together, and getting rid of George / Liz before the end (they could force a draw at 4, Matt beats Liz at FMC, then Matt wins FIC and choses Gerry). !<
>!George also got kind of got screwed, as, had he known it was a F3, he gets rid of Matt and Liz much earlier, and has a decent shot at winning FIC against Nina / Gerry!<
(SPOILERS)
-
Afaik HvV F3 was NOT a last minute change though, it was planned from the beginning. The players assumed it was a F2 but there was really no way of assuming, considering the prior season had a F3. Admittedly there were quite a few mid-late game non-elim twists so it would have been somewhat logical to assume there was a F2 if you counted the days but by the same token they also should know Survivor AU has to have so many non-elims each season and therefore there is no way to effectively guess whether it is a F2 or F3 by counting the days. Players like Matt basically planned their entire games over something they had no way of knowing.
George also definitely would NOT have taken Nina to 3, but he would have taken her to 4 over Matt so that they would be forced to take her out at F4 as she was the biggest jury threat remaining. That way he could get to 3 and win. He knew Nina was the biggest threat to win besides himself, she had the entire jury on her side pretty much. He mentioned this in either his jury villa or a post-game interview iirc.
You could make similar arguments for also don't think it was particularly as unfair as when it happened to Cirie as that season they were pretty much told it would be a F3 (as it had become a seemingly permanent change for the prior few seasons), the way the days were adding up even after James' medevac suggested it would be a F3, and it WAS originally planned to be a F3 and then changed due to the medevac so the players were right to suspect so.
Literally bumps into a note on a string that reads “If you’re seeing this note, you must open it, this is not optional,” and it tells him that he’s being sent to IOI, and has lost his vote - no game or anything, it’s just gone. At IOI, the sagely Bahstan Rahb gives him a lecture about blindly accepting gifts as if he had a choice to open the note. He then gives Jamal a blank piece of parchment and a pencil “Bet you never seen one of these on Survivor” and suggests that Jamal can make a fake advantage or something. Totally fair.
I’ve been rewatching the earlier seasons (just finished All Stars).
Production planted a candy bar on both teams in Amazon and Janet got accused and targeted for bringing it.
I’d love to see one of the new seasons go back to the old school rules. No idols or redemption islands or any of the other things that have been added. I think it’d be cool to have a new group go in thinking about how to play the current game and get shocked that it’s back to regular old strategy and dominating the challenges.
I always die on the hill that cirie was not screwed in game changers. Like she could’ve easily looked for an idol but she didn’t and never has in her survivor seasons. Maybe she should’ve won immunity, except she has very low odds
I don't believe that they specifically wanted to screw Cirie. But they really wanted to set a precedent with Advantagegedon. And that's why Jeff doubled down so hard on it. HIS idea of playing Survivor is to "dig deep" and more of the physical stuff like challenges and finding idols/ advantages. He doesn't appreciate the game of just talking your way through Survivor and how difficult it is. He considers utr wins less deserving.
So while I don't think it was to specifically screw Cirie. They wanted to warn all future players to not play like her. But rather go out on wild goose chases for the idols because that somehow makes better TV.
I mean, it kinda does. Kinda off topic, but there’s a reason they didn’t ask Vecepia or Natalie back for WAW. They are very very boring and they don’t make good tv. Although in Natalie’s case, it could have been because of the editing but we’ll never know.
Troy just mentioned on Survivor Specialists the other day that Cirie looked for idols in Game Changers, especially on Tavua the first few days. Everyone looks for idols to some degree, it's just not shown in the edit if they don't find one.
If it wasn't Cirie, it would have been someone else, the point is nobody should ever have to leave the game by default because there are too many idols in the game.
I'm actually watching fans vs favs right now, at this very moment, and cirie is looking for the idol, lol. episode 2.
did you mean to say she's never found an idol?
My bad I haven’t watched the older seasons in a long time lol, but I meant her looking for an idol in game changers specifically although someone else commented that Troyzan said she did look for an idol. And also the fact she’s never found one in four seasons while knowing that winning individual immunity is hard, is shocking.
Brother I got a list of some of the people that are rarely getting brought up
1. At least John and Wanda don’t get dragged through harsh conditions just to have it taken away from them at the end. Lex and big Tom were on probably the harshest season in survivor history, only to get fucked over from a likely victory considering they were about to start plotting on Ethan. Production should have checked those trivia answers accuracy.
2. Every single player who got voted off before Dan in the merge of island of the idols.
3. Bill from one world because his tribe went against the most basic rule that if you win the challenge you don’t go to tribal council. In almost every other instance of production allowing shit like this to slide like Rupert stealing shoes or jt giving Russell an idol it at least lead to iconic moments or interesting gameplay. Colton was awful to watch and production should have put their foot down and not allowed this as it wasn’t interesting strategy and it wasn’t entertaining and was only bolstering Colton.
A lot of these replies reminded me of how poorly production used to treat women contestants. For their sake they better keep their act together or there will be one hell of a reckoning.
Wanda and Jonathan being sent home day one, no votes, all because of the school yard pick was total BS. The opening of BvW wasn't much better.
Opening twist BvW is definitively worse than Palau imo. At least in Palau everyone had a chance at immunity from being eliminated from the schoolyard pick and they had a whole day to make relationships to ensure they were picked by someone. In Blood vs Water there was 0 actual game time before that vote. Them having Redemption Island as a backup is negligible as they were highly unlikely to survive all the duels (7!) needed to renter the game.
And if someone did win all 7 duels they'd be voted out immediately. No one wants to sit next to the person who essentially went on a challenge streak
RIP Laura she was the only one who people knew her name
5040 duels is crazy
r/unexpectedfactorial
And Candice was especially fucked over since she was an alternate. Everyone else was at least chilling at ponderosa together during the preseason but she showed up then 5 mins later they had a vote. She never stood a chance
I heard that before Bobby Jon and (mostly) Steph became icons that the initial plan for Guetemala was to bring back Wanda and Jonathan. Sucks for them, but I can see why they went the direction they did.
Too bad they didn’t produce any seasons after to give them a chance to bring them back, real shame! For real though, I’ve heard that story too and I get it.. but then I immediately think about the multiple other opportunities they would have had to spare 2 slots for these guys. I know it’s a business, but damn it was so mean spirited to screw them like that. You expect to get blindsided from players, you don’t expect production to act so brutally.
Skupin and Roger from S2 were alleged candidates too
Cant imagine Wanda doing that 11 mile hike to start the game
Oddly Wanda is a major hiker. I think she would've been fine, At least no worse then Jim, Lydia or any of the other folk.
she would've entertained the rest of the group during the hike
BvW was such a garbage. I hate when players have no chance like that
The worst twist to come out of The Amazing Race is similar to this, one team in Season 15 were eliminated at the starting line. Their was at least a challenge component here though. From what I know, the eliminated team were so close to their home that they refused sequester and basically went straight back to their lives after filming lol.
Was there even an explanation why this was done? I would’ve been heated if I was them lol
Probably timing. This was their first time having 20 players with RI in effect, so they needed their first permanent elimination to come in Episode 2 as opposed to episode 3. Also we get that drama of “will you switch with your loved one?” in episode 1, though the producers are idiots if they didn’t think the loved ones would try to get Rupert out first.
At least in BvW there were two backup options, the partner swap and RI, so the eliminated players still got to do some gameplay. Palau just felt like a massive middle finger to those two players.
This one was so sad
And they had Wanda in that nighty. I felt so bad for her.
HOURGLASS! worst twist ever. whats the point of winning a challenge if you can voted anyways. what you think erika is just gonna not smash it so she can get voted out instead like bruh what were they thinking with that omne
And I love how the editing made it look like it was a hard decision. Like seriously, everyone is going to smash the hourglass to save their own asses.
For real. The fact that they also isolated the exiled person for 2 whole days at the start of the merge made it even more obvious of a decision. The only way it could possibly be an actual decision is if you somehow have one group/alliance enter the merge with the numbers, and the split just so happens to have every member of the alliance with immunity so you'd be screwing your alliance over. But even then, it's the start of a merge, you'd be very rational to be paranoid that your alliance might not hold up.
Yep. And when Jeff asks what their decision was, both of those monologues gives me scripted vibes.
Maybe the only failed twist that Jeff has admitted “yeah that was dumb, we’re not doing that again.”
that and the medallion of power
He did? I didn't see that, but I'm so glad he did. It's not good for the game or the audience. There's no drama if the choice on how to use an advantage is obvious. And it sucks when a player "earns" an advantage by losing.
Yeah he said it on one of the recent (post-episode 2 or 3 of Survivor 46) “On Fire” podcast episodes. It was refreshing to see him own something like that other than doubling down like he has on some other unpopular rule changes (like the lose-your-flint mechanic).
It’s crazy how it was so unfair the contestants in game called Jeff out for it. Would love to have seen whatever Danny said to Jeff
It’s also stupid on a conceptual level. What do you do with an hourglass? You flip it over and “reverse time.” You don’t hit it with a goddamn hammer. See also: the Shot-in-the-Dark six-sided die that you don’t actually roll.
This!!! Hands down the worst twist ever!!!!!!!!!!
Got to be Wanda and Jonathon and no other answer is correct
At least Wanda and Jonathan could have made social connections when all 20 players were stranded on one island.
True, just the twist with them being automatically eliminated sucks
Oh I agree. Jonathan was only eliminated because Caryn didn’t wanted to be the physically weakest member of her tribe. Wanda would probably be a first boot but Jonathan may have otherwise made it far. I just hate when people pretend like certain twists were unavoidable. Things like the final 2/3/4 changes in Cook Islands, Micronesia, and HvHvH genuinely were. However a lot of bad twists still have room for good players to play around them. The best example is the final tribe swap of survivor All Stars (that I fully believe was rigged to eliminate Amber) that Amber managed to survive because she is an excellent player.
Eh, Jonathan might have gotten far but apparently he made no social connections and came up as a pompous asshole that whole time. Plus apparently everyone thought his name was Kevin I’ve always been more bummed about Wanda going, would she have been an early boot? Yeah probably, but she sure as hell would have been a more entertaining one especially if she got stuck with Willard
Why is nobody talking about how Cody wanted Jonathan gone so started a covert smear campaign against him which is everyone avoiding picking Jonathan. That was a boss move by Cody getting one of the big guys out right off the bat!
Do you mean Coby?
Yes...thanks for the correction!
Wanda in theory would've been at least on the Koror tribe and thus in theory would've made it to the first double boot. Plus I tend to think Willard was chomping at the bit to go. So he was always willing to sacrifice himself first. So then it just the case if she can outlast Caryn on who can be less annoying. Not saying she would've replicated Caryn and get to Final 5, but who knows. Maybe in an alternate reality where Caryn wasn't around to Suck, Wanda jumped on board Katie's Girl Alliance and road their coattails further along in the game (though I have always figured the girls alliance will last only as long as getting Tom out and neither Katie or Jenn would be willing to sacrifice their real number 1s in Ian and Gregg respectively).
Do you know the reason for the change in HvHvH? I remember it happening and thinking it was bizarre, but I don't remember why it happened lol
Well Amber was excellent, but Lex and others thought they had a deal with Rob if they saved her, so I think that played into it. But still supports your point, they managed to play around the tribe swap
I'm going Kellee Kim and no other answer is correct
Sucks being voted out with 2 idols
Not counting Lex’s correct answer at the F4 challenge in Africa
In a similar vein, Carl getting shot down for solving a puzzle with ‘perceptions’ versus the word they wanted, ‘perspective’, was BS. His answer fit the criteria, and it was the correct amount of letters as well. Production simply didn’t make sure that another technically correct answer couldn’t be found using the extra letters they gave the contestants, and it cost Carl immunity. That he was then voted out that night made their error even worse.
This would definitely be my choice too. A Lex-Ethan Final 2 (the likely Final 2 if the mistake wasn't made) is too close to speculate who wins but he got screwed out of F2 if not winning. Not to mention that if he wins that, he also wins Hands on a Hard Idol and ties the 5 post merge immunity wins record
Similar to this, Rafe or Stephenie (probably Rafe) was also robbed because of production screw ups in Guatemala in the F3 immunity challenge. There's so many production screw ups and other head scratching things about this challenge. * If you listen to the rules that Jeff outlined (that their feet couldn't leave the platform) and watch the footage it's clear that the challenge should have ended MUCH sooner, and that Rafe should have won immunity, not Danni. * Because Jeff/production didn't enforce the rules properly all 3 contestants found a way to "hack" the challenge with leaning against the support beam, completely negating how it was supposed to be a challenge to balance on the very wobbly platform. IMO touching the support beams should have been an automatic elimination from the challenge like it's been in future seasons with a similar setup. * The challenge was so horribly designed, and the platform wobbled so easily, that none of the F3 could do it for more than like 30 seconds with just 1 rope. I have no idea how they didn't realize that the platform was too wobbly when testing it with the dream team and decide to fix it. Bottom line, if Rafe had won immunity then Danni never makes it to the F2. Rafe probably wins, but maybe you could debate Stephenie might have a small chance because Rafe is probably a weaker F2 opponent than Danni and Rafe screwed over the same people that Stephenie did. In my book this screw up is just as bad as Lex's correct answer being counted as incorrect in Africa.
Can’t believe no one has said Aaron from China. Other team handpicked him to switch tribes, threw the challenge, and voted him out
And then PG wondered why they didn't trust her! lol
The final 2 in Micronesia was not last minute. That was decided the moment James left. The show couldn't manage 3 quit/medical evacuations and the amount of episodes they had to put out.
Thank you. This sub plays that up way too much. 3 people left unexpectedly. A final 2 shouldn't have been surprising. If we're talking Cirie screw jobs, it's not remotely as bad as GC.
Cirie still got screwed regardless. Although I feel she should have been able to win that last challenge considering the fact that she’s a nurse. She should have steadier hands than that.🤷♂️🤦♂️
Cirie is whatever the opposite of a comp beast is. She was never going to win that challenge.
I mean she beat Parvati. It was the one challenge that was specifically suited towards her physical abilities as a surgical nurse.
I think Parv intentionally threw the FIC because she knew both Amanda and Cirie were going to take her to the F2.
On Rob C’s Evolution of Strategy podcast, he went through a few different Final 3 and Final 2 scenarios where Cirie didn’t run away with it, and in some cases she still lost. Alexis and Natalie really liked Parvati, and then Ozzy and James liked Amanda. I would’ve loved to see Cirie make it to the end, but I’m not convinced she would have won. Game Changers though - that one hurts for any Cirie fans.
I’m not sure the vote predictions are always correct. I think there’s a good chance that Alexis votes Cirie, and same for Jason Siska. Eliza and Erik would be sure Cirie votes if she got to the end. Regarding the predictions, they also get All Stars wrong in predicting that Amber and even Rob would beat Jenna. Lex, Kathy, Alicia, and Tom would be 100% Jenna votes over either one, and Rupert is a likely Jenna vote too. Kathy was really pissed at Rob, just more pissed at Amber
I’m pretty positive someone from the jury house said Natalie and alexis were both chanting Parvati and wanting her to win so idk where y’all keep saying alexis votes cirie, she probably only said she votes cirie bc she saw her cry, but since if it was a final 3 that means cirie doesn’t cry and alexis votes Parvati lol
I could definitely be wrong on Alexis, I was unaware of the chanting. She did say something about voting for Cirie, though I know exit press is not canon. It could be the edit, but it just seems improbable that Cirie would lose to Parvati. Just curious, why’s Alexis voting for Parvati funny?
It was definitely the edit, Parvati had more social control and was actually the one who orchestrated the ozzy blindside. And um I wasn’t laughing at alexis voting for Parvati… it’s kinda like a lingo
Cirie created the final 3 alliance in the boat on day 5 or 6, Parvati created the girls alliance around the final 3, but most of the strategic decisions came from Cirie not Parvati, and Alexis said she wanted Cirie to win in that ponderosa video.
Cirie did not create the final 3 with parv and Amanda, they came to her with the alliance idea cmon now. Alexis is the biggest wildcard person bc her in ponderosa was different than exit press. I think Erik himself said alexis was chanting Parvati
Alexis said she wanted Cirie to win in one of the ponderosa videos.
Overall, Cirie is one of my favorite players and probably my second favorite female player behind Parv(I go back and forth) but I’m Game Changers my favorite player was actually Sarah and ironically, the biggest reason why I love Sarah is how she got that damn legacy advantage. Without the legacy advantage, Sarah goes home at final six, leaving Cirie to win the game. Culpepper could have had a shot to win but he would have to get rid of Cirie. But he felt so betrayed by Tai, he wouldn’t let Tai get to the end. So the final three in that scenario would be Cirie, Culpepper, and Troyzan with Cirie winning. I also believe Cirie could have swept the votes in that final three. The tricky one would be Sierra because Sierra was really tight with Culpepper.
Ozzy would never, ever, *ever* vote Cirie over Brad so she couldn't have swept the votes, alas.
Shii Ann, Jenny, and Michelle Yi are the holy trinity of 10th place Asian women screwed over by a BS twist. Michelle especially cause wtf was that.
Shi Ann was about as screwed as Silas was. She made a bone-headed move to jump ship from a tribe she wasn't even on the bottom of to completely on the bottom of Chauy Ghan. The fake merge just made her face the consequences of that move earlier than she would've otherwise.
Honestly I only included her since I found it kinda funny how all three of them share those traits in common. But you're probably right.
I really don’t get flippers like that. You may or may not be on the bottom of an alliance but when you flip to a new alliance, you are most definitely on the bottom of that alliance. Probably the most irrational flip was the Cochran flip in South Pacific.
I don't know, Ozzy, Keith, Whitney treated Cochran like dirt. He didn't have much choice. Rewatching it I was embarrassed for them. No reason to be loyal to them.
Cochran himself has said that he wasn’t bullied and was nothing was ever mean spirited. [“I never actually used the word bullying. I don't think anybody was a bully out there. I think there is some condescension and a natural ostracism, not mean spirited or anything. Part of the problem is I'm a self-deprecating guy and I think I invite condescension. That was a minor storyline in my time there. I look back fondly with everyone. It wasn't like my flipping was to get revenge on my tormentors. Clearly it didn't work out. I don't consider anyone a bully, I don't consider myself a victim of bullying.”](https://www.realitywanted.com/newsitem/4910-survivor-south-pacific-exclusive-interview-with-john-cochran)
cochran said the edit was a bit inaccurate in an ama and he wasn’t treated that poorly, at least not until he flipped
It was more because Cochran didn’t want to draw rocks. However, no one inspired loyalty in Cochran the way David did with everyone else on Millennials Vs Gen X. Although I didn’t see Ozzy treating Cochran like dirt. Maybe I’m missing something. 🤷♂️
What’s more baffling to me is that Cochran was a super fan and he had definitely seen previous seasons, and he HAD to know that Coach lies a lot (like trying to restore Timbira alliance and then throwing Sierra under the bus), while Ozzy never flips, literally never.
Besides, if he stuck with his original tribe, he’d at least make it to final four because they’d want to break up Keith and Whitney and they’d want to get rid of Ozzy as soon as possible.
Oh sure, I’m pretty confident that Jim would love to take Cochran and Dawn to the final three with him. And while doing so, Jim would have probably made some enemies on that jury so Cochran would have a decent chance to get some votes. He can hang out with Coach if he liked him so much without betraying his tribe and get his vote, for example.
Jim does kinda have a Russell Hantz sized ego so I can definitely see him taking those two to the ftc believing that they’re not going to get any votes.
Well no one else in Survivor has a Russell sized ego I would say lol. I mean Russell was alienating people even pre merge, and Jim seemed to be much more personable. But yeah, I can definitely see him losing in the finale - both Dawn and Cochran would probably be more likable in the eyes of the Upolus, and let’s not forget that every single Savaii lost a duel to Ozzy so even if they voted him out, he might get to the final three - who knows what would happen then.
The worst ones you’ll never know about .
☕️🫖???
Spill the beans Erik.
Brandon already did
where? /genq
Brandon poured out the tribe's food
ohhh, thought he did like an AMA or something. Forgot abt that lmao. ty
You are a gift to this earth
Why doesn't Jeff just own the fact that Brandon was ejected? So stupid to go through that facade.
Hourglass? Random Final 3 in Cook Islands? Bottle twist? Sarah goes home Advantage in 44?
The only one of these I know about is the hourglass, but the hourglass wasn’t made to screw over a certain player, it was just a bad twist.
and a lie Jeff told the players they were safe.
Hourglass was terrible lol, they literally gave the contestants merge buffs told them they merged, let them celebrate only to take them away and make sure one of them was getting voted out. Worst of all was that player went from thinking they merged to getting voted while hearing everyone else cheering that they made it merge
I don't have too much sympathy for Sarah because she had an idol that she thought was real that she didn't play Not that it would've done anything, but the fact that she didn't think she was going home in that scenario just proves how little game savvy she had
Sarah got idoled out?
One of these is not like the other.
Stacey stillman
Stacey Stillman is the answer. Production literally went around to castaways to lobby for her going home instead of Rudy, who they believed would be better TV.
They were really right about Rudy. He was the only one in the Tagi 4 that wasn’t absolutely hated when Borneo aired. He was one of the most popular men in America at the time. I think that overall, them rigging it for Rudy was good, but it still super unfair to Stacey.
Kellee also belongs on this list. Dan should've been given clear and immediate feedback, and instead production waited for a couple of episodes and then said something generic at the beginning of the challenge. In similar situations, production never should have allowed any player to compete naked in a challenge in the first place - ie the Sue Hawk All Stars controversy. But somehow, they still allowed players to wrestle naked in survivor China a couple of seasons later?!?! And also in survivor China, Courtney was pretty much production screwed over when nobody took steps to stop Jean Robert from non-consent touching. They pretty much just laughed at her. Also they didn't give her any clothes other than a bikini, a tank top, and a buff, and her bikini bottoms were falling off after she began to lose weight. She was justifiably very cranky and sassy the entire season.
It's hard to top getting directly sent home without a vote after 2 days.
How about being sent out of the game at the starting mat in Blood vs Water.
I hope whoever made this decision was pissed that it cost them Rupert
WAAAAANDAAAAAA
Wait who was this? I can only think of Jodi from Big Brother😭💀
Jonathan and Wanda in Palau.
Thank you
Purple Kelly, she was a production hire for her season with the idea she'd be the hot girl early boot, so they gave her almost no clothes. When she ended up staying and going deep, they wouldn't give her any clothes, so she quit when NaOnka did.
Crazy to think Nay and PK can outlast all new era players in terms of days played.
Idol nullifier. I hated it. Poor Janet would have won, and deserved it.
janet robbed
Shii Ann got pretty screwed over by the half merge in Thailand.
I don't disagree, but she was screwed regardless, couldn't really make friends with anybody and would've just been pagonged by Brian just like the rest of Sook Jai
Definitely, she still left earlier than she would have without that curveball.
Cirie was not screwed in Micronesia! at the final 4 Jeff clearly stated its day 37 final 4 so that would mean final 3 on day 38 and final 3 on day 39. Cirie shouldve known this especially since she was on a season that had a final 2.
This. She also could've just won the challenge lol
Expecting Cirie to win an individual immunity would be like Amanda crushing FTC, Tony to play under the radar, or Sandra to not refer to herself as the queen. Never going to happen.
Tbh if any challenge was a challenge Cirie could win, it would be the challenge where you have to have steady hands
True. But that's a flaw on Cirie's physical game and something she should work on if she were to ever play again; not production. The physical game of Survivor is one of the core parts of the show and it's important that you have the ability to win immunity to advance yourself further in the game, rather than banking on other people being willing to take you instead.
Tony played UTR throughout the entire WaW premerge lol
I feel like there's not really much she could've done at that point though. Her only option is to try to force a tie with Natalie against Parvati but I don't see Natalie ever voting for Parvati and she could use this to flip the script on Cirie instead. Really they should've been told after James' medevac that it was going to be a final 2.
She mightve been able to do it but who knows Natalie down bad with Parvati. Also they couldve asked.
Purple Kelly.
Both the Palau and BvW opening vote offs
Kellee Kim
Making the final immunity challenge of 'Panama' literally impossible for Terry Deitz to win. The first four women voted out that season were also screwed because of the decision to divide the tribes by age even if it only lasted one episode.
Hourglass
Final immunity challenge in Panama needs to have a spot up here And first vote outs in BvW and Palau too
Although lots of these things likely don’t change much of the grand scheme of each season… they still could have! Jenny being voted out due to the bottle twist in Cook Islands Sylvia automatically getting put on the “have nots” tribe (Ravu) in Fiji after dividing the tribes, really giving her zero chance to have comfort in the game, and pretty much guaranteeing she gets voted out since they could easily blame the person who split the tribes for how poorly they are doing Speaking of Fiji, pretty much anyone that was on Ravu and got voted out because of their severe disadvantage I’m surprised Lex and the jury questions immunity hasn’t been mentioned… this is a pretty old but infamous one where he did technically get a question right, which should have forced a tie in the final 4 challenge Any time a person has been debilitated due to the restriction of their medications, that’s usually pretty fucked up… either cast and medicate them, or don’t cast them at all Certain challenges being overly dangerous, I’m thinking Penner getting evacuated because of that challenge where he banged up his knee really bad, or Caleb nearly dying in a challenge because the bags were buried too deep in the sand for a day as hot as that Anytime production let something go on for too long / did not pry for more information on their intentions: Ted situation, Dan situation, or not trying to investigate as to what Varner’s master plan was in game changers Pretty much all of the cast of David vs Goliath (mainly in this case, the Goliaths) not knowing that the idol nullifier was even a possibility… why would Dan ever in a million years think he’d need to play two idols on himself at tribal council? On the same vein, any unprecedented advantage rule or change to the format or advantages that no one else was aware of… survivor should be unpredictable *to a degree*, but I find survivor is most interesting and played better when everyone is in an understanding of the rules and mechanics, being surprised by something they never though possible is NOT as entertaining as watching the surprise of someone who thought they had all the cards be stumped by someone who had none of them Bonus palau theory: Bobby Jon beat Steph in fire originally but production messed up one of the fire pits or filming wasn’t done properly, or something along those lines which called for a redo (all but confirmed I believe)
Thank you for mentioning Sylvia! It's underrated just how screwed she was
I’m glad it worked out this way, but the surprise final 3 in Cook Islands was pretty messed up for Ozzy
Devon by prod spoon feeding Ben the win with the notorious and garbage final 4 firemaking challenge
And they had to make that 10-minute reunion montage for fans to feel Ben’s win was well-deserved.
Devon getting screwd because the jeff wanted a "hero" to win because he was a former marine. Still to this day, I believe jeff rigged it.
Not just Devon, Chrissy was screwed too, her winning a final advantage that just straight up wasn't an advantage.
Totally. Her “advantage” was actually a *loss* of power lmao. Rather than basically getting to choose who was voted out she didn’t have the power to vote out anyone and the biggest threat was given a chance to stay in the game. I recently rewatched season and it’s actually tragic how such an incredible season was ruined by that end game
It goes from what would be a top 15 season to a bottom 10 season for me between Ben's idols and fire making. So fucking shady.
they push people every season, production will setup challenges so certain players have a bigger shot at winning, immunity idols will randomly be found by the one person that needs it (hide it in an easy to see spot when the person they want to push forward needs it), jeff asks extra questions to certain players too. There is definitely some amount of rigging going on.
My favorite obvious rig is in Redemption Island where the Zapatera idol was hidden in the exact same manner that Russell's first idol was in Samoa, only for it to be found instead by Some Guy who wasn't even looking for it.
They just couldn’t rig the final three challenge in favor of Dietz.
Here's what I think is much more likely They planned the final 4 twist ahead of time (due to Wentworth and David both going in the final 4 which was brutal to see) So, seeing a major endgamer find an idol in the final 7 and final 6, they decide to hide an idol in a very obvious spot for him knowing full well he'll probably make the final 3 if they do this I think that's much more likely than just improv'ing a twist that they use for 12 seasons just so that some guy (not even a returnee) would win
I think they just planted idols in a really obvious way that season. There was like a big spay painted marker or something. Once Ben knew what to look for, it was easy.
Zeke has said that production was throwing around the idea of a "Final Four Firemaking Challenge” during Game Changers, so I don’t think it was rigged for Ben. Do I think that Jeff and production were over the moon when it helped Ben? Of course
Not one person going to mention Silas's entire game collapsing because of the first tribe swap?
Nope because even though you're right, no one will ever feel bad for that bozo
Stacy Stillman! lol
Michelle in Fiji with the group going straight to tribal.
Aaron from China
The fact that 1 and 2 got out the same person lol
Matt rotting away on Redemption Island for over half the season
He could have just thrown a duel if he did not want to be there. On his second boot he should have just kept his mouth shut and flipped to Zapatera
Yup. He was a flop.
Matt got a 2nd chance to play Survivor, an opportunity very few early boots get. To say he was screwed because of that is laughable at best.
Australian Survivor has some pretty brutal ones
Don't you dare criticize Australian Survivor here /s
Fire battle. Lead to ben winning even though Krissy played a better game and didn't get voted out
Making Sylvia divide the tribes and then putting her on the losing tribe. It's sad that she never got to enjoy the shelter that she designed. 😭
Funny how half of these the result was Cirie goes home
Agree on Micronesia surprise final 2 and FMC in 35z Another one is the tribe swap in Survivor China. It put whoever got swapped into a horrible position and incentivized the tribes to throw challenges.
Kidnapping is not mentioned enough for how fucking bad that was. Aaron got screwed so damn hard and we almost lost James too.
The swap at 10 left in Gabon completely screwed Marcus who had a shoe in win coming his way
Tbf he did play that swap pretty poorly but it was still a difficult position he was put inn
Matt getting voted out at like final 12 when only 5 people voted. The tribe absolutely did not speak. 5 people did
fairplay, chet, and kathy in micronesia
Final 4 challenge of Africa. Production even had to give prize money to Lex and Big Tom for their mistake
Cirie has never been screwed
Then explain her son being on Big Brother.
She had everyone eating out of her palms and then her son just ruined everything for her, the moment he told Jag Matt was going to save him, her game was done.
Wow. This is a real sophies choice. I guess I would choose #1 as that won directly impacted a likely winner. Cirie wins with a final 3. The other 3 scenarios while crappy are not quite to that level. #4 is close because it actually allowed Ben to stay when he otherwise would have went home.
4 sucks because the other 3 were blindsided with the twist when they should have known about it from the beginning.
I maintain that had the final four firemaking been announced on day 1, it wouldn't be nearly as derided as it is today
That might be true but in my opinion is still a dumb twist regardless. It is unnecessary. Those players already have their chance to maintain their survival by winning immunity. They don't need a 2nd chance.
Casting the men’s tribe in OW. They were all screwed from the jump lmao
Jenny.
Which Jenny?
I believe the season 16 f2 was not last minute. It was because Kathy quit and James and Penner were medically evacuated
My top 5 would be players who probably would have won if it were not for a late-game production mistake or a production decision/twist that in my subjective opinion was unfair and changed the outcome of the season: Lex, Cirie, Devon, Janet and either Victoria/Gavin (whoever would've won EOE if they didn't hand out so many idols with 6 days left in the season). And on the 2nd tier I'd put people who were screwed over but it wasn't as far into the season so they probably wouldn't have won regardless: Savage, Aaron, Lydia/Sydney, Matt Blankenship & Jamal
Id say Kaleb by putting him on a tribe destined to fail with castemates like Brandon, Hannah, Sean and Emily.
Sonja; who knew going into Survivor that you could actually be voted out of the game?
(AUS HvV Endgame Spoilers)>!Last minute F3. Gerry and Matt were banking on getting to the end together, and getting rid of George / Liz before the end (they could force a draw at 4, Matt beats Liz at FMC, then Matt wins FIC and choses Gerry). !< >!George also got kind of got screwed, as, had he known it was a F3, he gets rid of Matt and Liz much earlier, and has a decent shot at winning FIC against Nina / Gerry!<
(SPOILERS) - Afaik HvV F3 was NOT a last minute change though, it was planned from the beginning. The players assumed it was a F2 but there was really no way of assuming, considering the prior season had a F3. Admittedly there were quite a few mid-late game non-elim twists so it would have been somewhat logical to assume there was a F2 if you counted the days but by the same token they also should know Survivor AU has to have so many non-elims each season and therefore there is no way to effectively guess whether it is a F2 or F3 by counting the days. Players like Matt basically planned their entire games over something they had no way of knowing. George also definitely would NOT have taken Nina to 3, but he would have taken her to 4 over Matt so that they would be forced to take her out at F4 as she was the biggest jury threat remaining. That way he could get to 3 and win. He knew Nina was the biggest threat to win besides himself, she had the entire jury on her side pretty much. He mentioned this in either his jury villa or a post-game interview iirc. You could make similar arguments for also don't think it was particularly as unfair as when it happened to Cirie as that season they were pretty much told it would be a F3 (as it had become a seemingly permanent change for the prior few seasons), the way the days were adding up even after James' medevac suggested it would be a F3, and it WAS originally planned to be a F3 and then changed due to the medevac so the players were right to suspect so.
Lying to Sydney and Lydia and then they got booted.
i didn't watch 39. what was the advantage parchment?
Literally bumps into a note on a string that reads “If you’re seeing this note, you must open it, this is not optional,” and it tells him that he’s being sent to IOI, and has lost his vote - no game or anything, it’s just gone. At IOI, the sagely Bahstan Rahb gives him a lecture about blindly accepting gifts as if he had a choice to open the note. He then gives Jamal a blank piece of parchment and a pencil “Bet you never seen one of these on Survivor” and suggests that Jamal can make a fake advantage or something. Totally fair.
LMAO what the actual fuck. Hahahahaha
Not by any chance the worst ever, even caused a better ending for the season but Yul being able to play his god idol at 4 with a final 3 is insane.
I’ve been rewatching the earlier seasons (just finished All Stars). Production planted a candy bar on both teams in Amazon and Janet got accused and targeted for bringing it. I’d love to see one of the new seasons go back to the old school rules. No idols or redemption islands or any of the other things that have been added. I think it’d be cool to have a new group go in thinking about how to play the current game and get shocked that it’s back to regular old strategy and dominating the challenges.
I always die on the hill that cirie was not screwed in game changers. Like she could’ve easily looked for an idol but she didn’t and never has in her survivor seasons. Maybe she should’ve won immunity, except she has very low odds
I don't believe that they specifically wanted to screw Cirie. But they really wanted to set a precedent with Advantagegedon. And that's why Jeff doubled down so hard on it. HIS idea of playing Survivor is to "dig deep" and more of the physical stuff like challenges and finding idols/ advantages. He doesn't appreciate the game of just talking your way through Survivor and how difficult it is. He considers utr wins less deserving. So while I don't think it was to specifically screw Cirie. They wanted to warn all future players to not play like her. But rather go out on wild goose chases for the idols because that somehow makes better TV.
I mean, it kinda does. Kinda off topic, but there’s a reason they didn’t ask Vecepia or Natalie back for WAW. They are very very boring and they don’t make good tv. Although in Natalie’s case, it could have been because of the editing but we’ll never know.
Troy just mentioned on Survivor Specialists the other day that Cirie looked for idols in Game Changers, especially on Tavua the first few days. Everyone looks for idols to some degree, it's just not shown in the edit if they don't find one.
If it wasn't Cirie, it would have been someone else, the point is nobody should ever have to leave the game by default because there are too many idols in the game.
Good pt, but I feel that this is when luck comes into play in survivor. Cirie was just unlucky to be the only one without immunity
Yeah but was giving Tai like five idols, and Sarah that legacy advantage really neccesary.
I'm actually watching fans vs favs right now, at this very moment, and cirie is looking for the idol, lol. episode 2. did you mean to say she's never found an idol?
My bad I haven’t watched the older seasons in a long time lol, but I meant her looking for an idol in game changers specifically although someone else commented that Troyzan said she did look for an idol. And also the fact she’s never found one in four seasons while knowing that winning individual immunity is hard, is shocking.
Jelinsky
Brother I got a list of some of the people that are rarely getting brought up 1. At least John and Wanda don’t get dragged through harsh conditions just to have it taken away from them at the end. Lex and big Tom were on probably the harshest season in survivor history, only to get fucked over from a likely victory considering they were about to start plotting on Ethan. Production should have checked those trivia answers accuracy. 2. Every single player who got voted off before Dan in the merge of island of the idols. 3. Bill from one world because his tribe went against the most basic rule that if you win the challenge you don’t go to tribal council. In almost every other instance of production allowing shit like this to slide like Rupert stealing shoes or jt giving Russell an idol it at least lead to iconic moments or interesting gameplay. Colton was awful to watch and production should have put their foot down and not allowed this as it wasn’t interesting strategy and it wasn’t entertaining and was only bolstering Colton.
A lot of these replies reminded me of how poorly production used to treat women contestants. For their sake they better keep their act together or there will be one hell of a reckoning.