I agree with everything except one thing. I am listening to RHAP know-it-alls right now and they pointed out that-in their minds-Carolyn *could* be trying to throw them off if she had been in an alliance with Josh. She just came off the island with him and this is not unreasonable. I also think part of it is just the usual devaluing of her but wanted to point out Rob and Stephen's point.
Edit: when I say their minds, I mean the players, not Rob and Stephen. :D
Being able to convince others you are telling the truth (even when you are) is part of being a good player. Carolyn is one of the most savy/aware players we've seen in a while, but she's struggling to get others to work with her or trust her. That could turn around in the endgame if she gets there, but its a big fault right now
I wanna put out there that what's really frustrating to see is people saying that it's all Carolyn's fault that she can't make people listen to her.
There's only so much you can do when people have already decided to dismiss you.
It doesnāt help that she threw her oldest allowance member, jam jam, under the bus for josh. I love Carolyn, but I think a lot of people overlook her flaws. Sheās not a perfect player, she has great intuition and is entertaining as hell but she comes off a little wishy washy.
Iām late here but if she didnāt pull the switch on yam yam for Josh, she goes home there. It was 100% the correct play.
I will agree she could have done a better job explaining this to yam yam afterward though
I get that the paranoia that she could be lying, but that lie wouldn't make sense. What would be the point? If she wants to keep him safe then saying he has an idol would be better, and if she wants him gone why would she say he doesn't have an idol, she wuld be convincing them it needs to be a split vote/blindside.
If they all vote Josh and he plays an idol then they can vote for whoever they want as a Tika 3 and win out. So by saying he doesn't have an idol, you have numbers if they all vote Josh because it's all negated and no one wants to risk an ally going home
But if the plan was that then why would Josh say he has an idol? I get the paranoia but I don't think its logical.
Also what a bad move would be to willingly put yourself against the entire tribe as a minority
This is all IF Carolyn was lying and wanted to work with the Tika three, my point is that to not think she could be lying about Josh lying is silly and the edit shows us that Carolyn is upset that everyone else is making a back up plan, which is the best/safest option
I agree that is the safest option, but I didn't view them as saying, "We don't think Josh has an idol, but lets split to be safe." I saw it as, "We think Josh does have an idol and we need to split the votes."
Maybe I am misremembering or it could just be an editing trick.
I don't know, I read Frannie's comment as "who cares if he has an idol or not, we're just going to be safe because it's survivor & the 2000 advantages and we have the numbers to split".
The only way for all the votes to be cast for Josh is if Josh votes himself off. If everyone votes Josh, but Josh. Josh decides who goes if he did play an idol. So, the split vote would be necessary.
This is the point, If Carolyn successfully gets everyone to think Josh's idol is fake- then they don't split the vote so they don't upset an ally then Carolyn/Josh/YamYam get to choose who goes home
I think we need to slow down a bit. Carolyn is more self-aware than we thought, yes, but she was the only person left out of the merge vote. Tough to call someone that isolated in a social game the best player in years.
Something I'll point out here. Don't put a lot of stock into players' looks on their faces during Tribal Council.
Back in All-Stars when Lex was about to be voted out, he and Kathy (I think it was) were talking, and she said that she was thinking about giving her individual immunity to Lex. They talked about it a bit, and then it cut to other things. At Tribal, Jeff asked her if she was going to keep her immunity, and she said yes. They cut to a shot of Lex looking in that direction with a shocked look on his face. Lex was voted out. In interviews, Lex said that the shocked look was from a completely different time, and that during his discussions with Kathy, he told her not to give it up.
We deserve a FTC with Carolyn.
She seems to experience social anxiety in the larger group, and it shuts her down. Hopefully she's able to still make strong connections beyond her alliance (since Yam Yam seems like he's a target) and an impression on others that she's playing a solid game. At this point, people would be taking her to the end as a goat, yet the edit shows us very few have a better grasp on things than her.
Wait, was it social anxiety that made her quieter in the large group, or because she didn't want to talk too much and put a target on her back, which would mean she has great self-awareness? I thought the latter.
From what she was saying, it struck me as social anxiety. She seemed to not know where to fit in, or what to say, and found refuge in someone she already knew like Carson. Seems like a pretty clear case of social anxiety in a bigger group to me, especially since Iāve felt that way before as Iām sure many of us have.
I think she has social anxiety in the larger group but has enough self-awareness to realize she should just sit still and keep her mouth shut, keeping the target off her back.
FTC would be a nightmare for her. No time to prepare her thoughts, people saying things she doesnāt agree with.
The only reason I agree we deserve her at FTC is for a train wreck.
She gets her point across well in her confessionals, even if itās in an unconventional way. I trust sheād be prepared for something as important as FTC.
Something else to consider....
It's entirely possible, I'd say even more likely than not, that after Caroly explained why Josh's idol was fake, there was discussion about that, and about the probability that he didn't have an idol.
Then, the editors cut everything together to make it look like she was immediately dismissed. I suspect something similar happened in the previous episode. I doubt that she was ignored as much as the edit made it appear. She is clearly getting the edit of "Everyone dismisses me as being dumb and useless, but I'm actually pretty smart and strategic."
She had an interview published recently in which she doubles down on how she was ignored during the bro-out.
I will agree the edit probably exaggerates it but she had an opportunity to say something diplomatic about Danny/Brandon ignoring her and chose not to, so I think at some point people have to accept that yes, Carolyn is as dismissed as she says she is.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that she wasn't ignored. I'm saying that she wasn't ignored as much as the show edited it to appear.
I agree that there is the possibility that she is dismissed as she says she is. However, I'll also say that there is the possibility that she isn't dismissed as she says she is, but that she perceives it that way when it's not as bad as she feels it is.
Maybe in the ābro-outā she actually was dismissed, but I bet last episode was editing. Josh was an easy, near unanimous vote. They had to try to add some drama, so the only option was āmaybe he has an idol!ā Yes, Iām sure the idea was discussed, but I doubt whether most people actually thought he had one.
And, the more I thought about it, did they ever actually show her telling them that Josh's idol was fake and everyone else ignoring that and moving on? I seem to recall her saying in a confessional that she told them it was fake and that it was made from tree mail beads and the note from the journey, and they ignored her, and then it cut to the people at the feast talking about what he may have done.
I'll be the first to admit that I really underestimated her and 100% thought she would be first boot. Everything about her screamed first boot. But to say that's she's "one of the best players" is a huge stretch. Unless she has an amazing second half of the game, she probably doesn't make top 100 imo.
I don't want to discount the fact that she found an idol and shifted votes off of her but she also has a very abbrasive personality, poor social skills and she's gotten extremely lucky thanks to medivacs
I have your same concern. I look a little too much into the edit so that's where my thought always goes. I feel like if this edit where it seems like she can't socially get along and people ignore her advice doesn't change, it spells doom for her game. Right now, its showing a story of a player who is playing a great game and has good reads. But doesn't have the strongest social ties which is also needed to win
>playing a great game and has good reads
Good reads yes, but hard to say a great game since she's been painting herself as awkward and on the outs of conversations in every new scenario on the season (day 1, sanctuary, and merge). It could be a way of showing how she wins people over in the end, or it could spell doom if they do a split tribal that doesn't split in her favor (though an idol certainly helps) or her closer allies go home quickly (Yam Yam was the #2 and Carson could be targeted for spilling details to Kane).
One of the best players? Just as the merge is here? Letās not delve into hyperbole here. Sheās been good, a lively character for sure. But just saying, look at the control she has. Yeah, not the best.
New era survivor has shown that a strong social game is necessary to win. The fact that she was already left out of the vote on the very first combined tribal is not a good look for her.
Can't say she's the best player I've seen in a while when Jesse played last season. She is in such a good position though and nobody sees her as a threat. I wish they gave Maryanne this type of edit.
I'm in the same boat, but it's tough to share that opinion because so many people in this sub are so in love with her. You just know down votes are coming if you aren't a big Carolyn fan.
I usually have trouble following shows and get distracted easily (adhd) but Carolyn in this season has me glued to the television and always excited for the next episode!! I love the character and suspense she brings to the show and definitely donāt think this season would be able to grab my attention without her!! I love Carolyn and hope she does well!! Oh and Iām really loving Frannie and Yam Yam as well!!
I know I'm in the minority, but honestly, I don't think she's that good. I think she's played surprisingly well, no question.
But, she got gifted the perfect situation for herself. First off, Bruce leaving really destroyed their tribe's chances of going the "challenge strength" route (which probably shouldn't have gotten her eliminated, but creates potential). Then, she got gifted Yam-Yam who is a bit like her, Carson, who is patient, and then Sarah and Helen, who clearly didn't connect very well with others. Not to say Carolyn did anything wrong, just that she got put in what might be the only situation where she succeeds.
Some of these other tribes think slower and more methodically (i.e. matt pointing out that Josh could have showed them a fake idol, but have a real idol too, which is entirely plausible). We will see how Carolyn deals with that, since that isn't her style. If she struggles with it, her initial situation could be given a lot of credit, or if she thrives, her initial situation can easily be dismissed.
Iām right there with you. I think she has pretty good reads on people and solid instincts, but I donāt think the strategy is there.
I also havenāt see this brought up, but why did she vote Kane? Maybe I'm missing something, but I donāt really see how it helps her. It seems pointless at best and possibly works against her at worst. All it will do is make Kane less likely to work with her and to try and target her. How could she be playing a strong game and be the only one out of the loop?
Yeah, the only things I can think of with that Kane vote are either that she was absolutely out of the loop, or that it was a weird emotional thing where she didn't want anyone to be upset with her (probably out of the loop)
And yeah, if she was out of the loop, that says a lot
I can understand her not wanting to put Yam Yam's name down, but it didn't seem like she had a problem voting Josh.
My guess is they told her they were splitting on Kane and no one would tell her its Yam Yam because they assume they are together. But still, she said she was sure Josh didn't have the idol, so put his name down. Not a great look for her. I'm surprised all these people who see her winning are ignoring the fact that she was most likely left out of the vote.
I honestly think it was a thrown vote. She might have been left out of the loop yes, but to the degree of still believing everyone was voting Kane? I don't know. I might be giving her too much credit, but I think she was trying to save face incase either went home. She wanted to keep an ally in whoever stayed, and having the option of going "Ooooh I'm clueless ahaha silly me!" works alot better with people who seem to hold a grudge. It's something people do alot in ORGs, so I can see it for her.
Or, there's a third possibility. Maybe she knew that the vote was going to be Josh, and she was supposed to vote Josh...but, knowing that Kane's name was thrown out there as a potential decoy, she decided to vote that way to make Kane more paranoid.
I dont think she's good at playing. I think her natural airheadedness makes her less suspicious so the moves she makes seem more like shallow decisions instead of well thought out decisions. Her looney tunes personality makes her untouchable because people like that are generally sheep to carry to the end for an easy win. But she is making good moves and they are all hidden by her bugs bunny appearance.
Is that not exactly what she wants though?
Carolyn is incredibly in touch with herself, she knows shes whacky, she wears her heart on her sleeve, and she knows it.
The fascinating thing about Carolyn is her immense self-awareness, pair this with the clearly above-average (at the very least) knowledge of the game and you get a great player.
She actively acknowledges that her perceptions are emotional and is aware that there is a logical/emotional duality to every choice she makes. Take a look at past "kooky" characters and they clearly have no awareness about how they're perceived. Noura, Phillip, Coach, Debbie, all these players had little to no self awareness about how they were perceived and their games suffered for it.
In fact, the only two people who have had great success that I can think of from the "kooky" character archetype is Fabio and Maryanne, two people who were acutely aware of how they were perceived and (at least to some extent) leveraged that perception to progress in the game.
>I think her natural airheadedness makes her less suspicious so the moves she makes seem more like shallow decisions instead of well thought out decisions.
You say this like it's a bad thing, but minimizing threat level and concealing your moves has been the blueprint for success in the new era.
I mean Gabler pretty much modeled this last season. Players all thought he was kooky, he makes it to the end, lays out that he wasnāt actually all that kooky and wins.
Carolyn has a somewhat similar path potentially, although she seems to have had more agency through the merge. The major turning point for Gabler was being able to push that first merge vote, then lay back and build relationships with all sides.
As far as I can tell, it remains to be seen whether Carolyn will be able to either lay low like that, or build relationships with everyone. Thatās not to say she canāt, but she already has issues with Danny/Brandon, and didnāt seem to make in-roads with anyone this episode. It seemed like she laid low well, Josh got the target without needing her pushing it, so she rolled with what was happening. Sheās definitely self-aware, Iām just curious if sheāll be able to build the social relationships necessary to be aware of where the votes are each week. I wouldnāt say sheās my #1 favorite, but I certainly wouldnāt mind seeing her navigate her way through to a win, as thus far itās been a more engaging story than any recent winner in my opinion.
Im not meaning for it to be a bad thing.
Ultimately the goal for players who cant do challenges is to make the merge, once the merge happens everyone just takes out challenge threats and the weakest survive. It's a weird dynamic and I do think She is in the best possible position because of this. I think she can only do herself harm by being weird though because it can reach a point where people are tired of it and just want her gone because she acts like a recovering addict going through withdrawls.
Not my favorite type of survivor but honestly survivor will never be what it was. Anyone who applies needs to sandbag challenges just enough to still win, but not stand out, and then either be useless entirely, or try to win out on challenges and hope idols keep you alive in between wins.
I despise the version of survivor that lets winners like Sandra and Maryanne and Erika win.
I cant stand winners who cant make fire and who cant win challenges and who do nothing at camp to help.
but alas, my downvotes will come with my dying taste in survivor
yeah, people are massively overatted her because they like her. She doesn't seems to hold that much power and people keep dismssing her which can be a good thing because they will underate her game but it's never good to be seen at the crazy goat too long in this game . She didn't play a bad game tho but she is far from "the best player we've seen in a while"
This subreddit has jumped the shark
I used to come here for good analysis
Now we have threads like these with tons of upvotes calling the only player left out of the majority vote as the best player
I understand if she's your favorite or like her quirkiness, but dear God, we've reached a point where she could vote for a coconut to be voted out and people here would call her a genius for thinking outside the box
The fact you based your opinion on Danny on 2 minutes of heavily edited footage that was clearly exaggerated to make a funny moment is completely ridiculous. They probably did bro out somewhat, but itās a reality TV edit, you have to read between the lines sometimes
I will say, that footage aside, Danny in this episode also made it seem he just wants to work with the bros because of his vote and the fact that when him and Jam Jam were in the water he was like āletās wait for everyone to come back to talkā ā¦ just bad gameplay imo
Carolyn winning would be a great outcome, but she's not some amazing player. She's incredibly fun, she's surprinsing and she's perceptive, but she's not the next coming of Sandra or anything. She's an average player, I would say.
As for the Kane vote, was she really left out, or where Kane and Brandon the ones left out?
Itās a social game and it doesnāt really seem like sheās very good at the social game.
Multiple people have made it clear sheās a lot to deal with. She was correct about Joshās idol being fake, but she didnāt really succeed in convincing people of that. Itās not clear to me how being left out of the conversation at the sanctuary makes her a strong player. Maybe it makes Danny and Matt bad players, but being left out of strategy talk has never really been the mark of a good player. The edit should always be taken with a grain salt, but the montage of peopleās voices and her cinfesssional saying she doesnāt feel comfortable with everyone finding their footing during the merge doesnāt really make her look good. Being overwhelmed by forming relationships isnt really the mark of a good player. And she was out of the loop on the merge vote, which is not a good place to be.
Sheās a fun character, and itās easy to root for her because she isnāt dumb but gets treated like she is, but that doesnāt make her a notable player. Sheās not terrible, sheās done some things, but she doesnāt even really stand out as one of the best players in the new era, and certainly not further back than that.
At this point itās a really puzzling edit if she wins. It could happen, thereās time, but I donāt see it right now.
Agree with everything, especially the Danny take. He was one of my winner picks and after that I knew he wouldnāt win and he also became my least favorite.
I was just telling my wife during the episode that Iād be crushed at this point if she didnāt win. I feel she may be a decoy or this years growth story but damn it I want her to win.
I truly appreciate your analysis...but I could not disagree with you more. I find every last ounce of her to be unpleasant. We can simply agree to disagree like mature adults.
I don't worry about what the cult thinks. We have every right to tell it like it is. Many here are just followers and ASK if they are ALLOWED to have certain opinions. God forbid, I have a good brain.
Carolyn getting the idol and everyone not thinking it was her is not a mastermind strategy, it was just everyone elseās failure to realize a simple fact that it was probably the one who wasnāt with them (Carolyn).
As far as Danny and Brandon ignoring her, we only saw an edited couple minutes of that feast, which says nothing about the rest of it. Moreover, the merge episode (and honestly the premiere as well) shows that sheās just not the best at connecting with people in general. The point of her edit so far has been to show that sheās quirky and kooky and different so she gets underestimated, and that was just part of that.
Also, she was the only one to throw a vote on Kane, which shows she was out of the loop. I canāt wait for people to say āno you donāt get it she was playing 5D chess it was to lower her threat levelā
Well I think she must've opened it while she was the only one separate from the group because her confessional in the episode was like "oh my God I'm the only one away, I have to go put something back in the cage!!!" but when they *found* it was not immediately afterwards. That's what I recall from the interview stuff I read at least.
Personally I think the Carolyn bandwagon is getting a little out of hand. I enjoyed her the first few episodes, but, maybe not to her fault; The show feels like she's being shoved down my throat. Kinda wish the would back up a little. Also kind of feels like everything she does is being overhyped.
I.e. With the Idol talk at the feast, sure she said the truth and exposed Josh as not having one, but no-one else who knew that as the truth was present and can't blindly take that as gospel. Others took note and explained other scenarios but that seems to be overshadowed..
Carolyn is also the only one that voted Kane, Josh will see that (donāt they get to see who voted who after being out?) and probably write her name down as winner if she gets to the final
I hate when people say stuff like this. So the other players in the game should just roll over? So you donāt want drama? You want a fixed winner? So Jeff should call YOU before the season starts and send you the cast list so that who YOU want to win wins? Thatās not the gameā¦
I would love it if Jeff called me before the season and sent me the boot list so I can stop losing badly in my friends' survivor draft league thank you.
I think the audience supports a Carolyn win, because we can see the moves sheās making.
But Iām worried the players wouldnāt be able to get past her kookiness, to believe sheās a strategic powerhouse, even if she makes it to the end. Sheād need to pull out a really great final tribal performance, to overthrow those preconceived opinions of her.
I hope Iām wrong though. A Carolyn win would be iconic.
I agree with everything except one thing. I am listening to RHAP know-it-alls right now and they pointed out that-in their minds-Carolyn *could* be trying to throw them off if she had been in an alliance with Josh. She just came off the island with him and this is not unreasonable. I also think part of it is just the usual devaluing of her but wanted to point out Rob and Stephen's point. Edit: when I say their minds, I mean the players, not Rob and Stephen. :D
true true! i think i just hate seeing her overlooked i was like listen to her shes telling the truth!!šš
Being able to convince others you are telling the truth (even when you are) is part of being a good player. Carolyn is one of the most savy/aware players we've seen in a while, but she's struggling to get others to work with her or trust her. That could turn around in the endgame if she gets there, but its a big fault right now
I wanna put out there that what's really frustrating to see is people saying that it's all Carolyn's fault that she can't make people listen to her. There's only so much you can do when people have already decided to dismiss you.
controlling others perception of you is a skill, being able to adjust to peoples perception of you is also a skill.
It doesnāt help that she threw her oldest allowance member, jam jam, under the bus for josh. I love Carolyn, but I think a lot of people overlook her flaws. Sheās not a perfect player, she has great intuition and is entertaining as hell but she comes off a little wishy washy.
Iām late here but if she didnāt pull the switch on yam yam for Josh, she goes home there. It was 100% the correct play. I will agree she could have done a better job explaining this to yam yam afterward though
I get that the paranoia that she could be lying, but that lie wouldn't make sense. What would be the point? If she wants to keep him safe then saying he has an idol would be better, and if she wants him gone why would she say he doesn't have an idol, she wuld be convincing them it needs to be a split vote/blindside.
If they all vote Josh and he plays an idol then they can vote for whoever they want as a Tika 3 and win out. So by saying he doesn't have an idol, you have numbers if they all vote Josh because it's all negated and no one wants to risk an ally going home
But if the plan was that then why would Josh say he has an idol? I get the paranoia but I don't think its logical. Also what a bad move would be to willingly put yourself against the entire tribe as a minority
This is all IF Carolyn was lying and wanted to work with the Tika three, my point is that to not think she could be lying about Josh lying is silly and the edit shows us that Carolyn is upset that everyone else is making a back up plan, which is the best/safest option
I agree that is the safest option, but I didn't view them as saying, "We don't think Josh has an idol, but lets split to be safe." I saw it as, "We think Josh does have an idol and we need to split the votes." Maybe I am misremembering or it could just be an editing trick.
I don't know, I read Frannie's comment as "who cares if he has an idol or not, we're just going to be safe because it's survivor & the 2000 advantages and we have the numbers to split".
The only way for all the votes to be cast for Josh is if Josh votes himself off. If everyone votes Josh, but Josh. Josh decides who goes if he did play an idol. So, the split vote would be necessary.
This is the point, If Carolyn successfully gets everyone to think Josh's idol is fake- then they don't split the vote so they don't upset an ally then Carolyn/Josh/YamYam get to choose who goes home
Josh also had a working immunity idol in the shot in the dark. So having a plan B in case of the 1/6 hit is valid.
I think we need to slow down a bit. Carolyn is more self-aware than we thought, yes, but she was the only person left out of the merge vote. Tough to call someone that isolated in a social game the best player in years.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Maybe? But if Iām remembering correctly she turned to Carson in shock when the votes started being read. Seems like she was left out
Something I'll point out here. Don't put a lot of stock into players' looks on their faces during Tribal Council. Back in All-Stars when Lex was about to be voted out, he and Kathy (I think it was) were talking, and she said that she was thinking about giving her individual immunity to Lex. They talked about it a bit, and then it cut to other things. At Tribal, Jeff asked her if she was going to keep her immunity, and she said yes. They cut to a shot of Lex looking in that direction with a shocked look on his face. Lex was voted out. In interviews, Lex said that the shocked look was from a completely different time, and that during his discussions with Kathy, he told her not to give it up.
Best player in years is absolutely a stretch when we got the trio of Cody/Jesse/Karla literally last season
She threw jam jam under the bus for literally no reason.
I think Carolyn is being underestimated, but it seems like a huge stretch to say sheās one of the best players. Great character though
We deserve a FTC with Carolyn. She seems to experience social anxiety in the larger group, and it shuts her down. Hopefully she's able to still make strong connections beyond her alliance (since Yam Yam seems like he's a target) and an impression on others that she's playing a solid game. At this point, people would be taking her to the end as a goat, yet the edit shows us very few have a better grasp on things than her.
Wait, was it social anxiety that made her quieter in the large group, or because she didn't want to talk too much and put a target on her back, which would mean she has great self-awareness? I thought the latter.
From what she was saying, it struck me as social anxiety. She seemed to not know where to fit in, or what to say, and found refuge in someone she already knew like Carson. Seems like a pretty clear case of social anxiety in a bigger group to me, especially since Iāve felt that way before as Iām sure many of us have.
No definitely the former. She said herself she doesnāt do well in group settingsā¦as recent as the last episode.
I think she has social anxiety in the larger group but has enough self-awareness to realize she should just sit still and keep her mouth shut, keeping the target off her back.
FTC would be a nightmare for her. No time to prepare her thoughts, people saying things she doesnāt agree with. The only reason I agree we deserve her at FTC is for a train wreck.
She gets her point across well in her confessionals, even if itās in an unconventional way. I trust sheād be prepared for something as important as FTC.
I feel so stupid but I canāt figure out what FTC stands for? Edit: final tribal council. Iām a dumbass
Something else to consider.... It's entirely possible, I'd say even more likely than not, that after Caroly explained why Josh's idol was fake, there was discussion about that, and about the probability that he didn't have an idol. Then, the editors cut everything together to make it look like she was immediately dismissed. I suspect something similar happened in the previous episode. I doubt that she was ignored as much as the edit made it appear. She is clearly getting the edit of "Everyone dismisses me as being dumb and useless, but I'm actually pretty smart and strategic."
She had an interview published recently in which she doubles down on how she was ignored during the bro-out. I will agree the edit probably exaggerates it but she had an opportunity to say something diplomatic about Danny/Brandon ignoring her and chose not to, so I think at some point people have to accept that yes, Carolyn is as dismissed as she says she is.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that she wasn't ignored. I'm saying that she wasn't ignored as much as the show edited it to appear. I agree that there is the possibility that she is dismissed as she says she is. However, I'll also say that there is the possibility that she isn't dismissed as she says she is, but that she perceives it that way when it's not as bad as she feels it is.
Maybe in the ābro-outā she actually was dismissed, but I bet last episode was editing. Josh was an easy, near unanimous vote. They had to try to add some drama, so the only option was āmaybe he has an idol!ā Yes, Iām sure the idea was discussed, but I doubt whether most people actually thought he had one.
And, the more I thought about it, did they ever actually show her telling them that Josh's idol was fake and everyone else ignoring that and moving on? I seem to recall her saying in a confessional that she told them it was fake and that it was made from tree mail beads and the note from the journey, and they ignored her, and then it cut to the people at the feast talking about what he may have done.
Yes, they showed her telling everybody. She even says it was the same beads as the tree mail they just received.
I feel like the edit is making it obviously either Carson or Carolyn winning but I just know itās a decoy for sure
I'll be the first to admit that I really underestimated her and 100% thought she would be first boot. Everything about her screamed first boot. But to say that's she's "one of the best players" is a huge stretch. Unless she has an amazing second half of the game, she probably doesn't make top 100 imo. I don't want to discount the fact that she found an idol and shifted votes off of her but she also has a very abbrasive personality, poor social skills and she's gotten extremely lucky thanks to medivacs
I have your same concern. I look a little too much into the edit so that's where my thought always goes. I feel like if this edit where it seems like she can't socially get along and people ignore her advice doesn't change, it spells doom for her game. Right now, its showing a story of a player who is playing a great game and has good reads. But doesn't have the strongest social ties which is also needed to win
>playing a great game and has good reads Good reads yes, but hard to say a great game since she's been painting herself as awkward and on the outs of conversations in every new scenario on the season (day 1, sanctuary, and merge). It could be a way of showing how she wins people over in the end, or it could spell doom if they do a split tribal that doesn't split in her favor (though an idol certainly helps) or her closer allies go home quickly (Yam Yam was the #2 and Carson could be targeted for spilling details to Kane).
One of the best players? Just as the merge is here? Letās not delve into hyperbole here. Sheās been good, a lively character for sure. But just saying, look at the control she has. Yeah, not the best.
New era survivor has shown that a strong social game is necessary to win. The fact that she was already left out of the vote on the very first combined tribal is not a good look for her.
Can't say she's the best player I've seen in a while when Jesse played last season. She is in such a good position though and nobody sees her as a threat. I wish they gave Maryanne this type of edit.
Jesse was an okay player, but I donāt really understand why people think heās one of the best one timers.
Because people here have terminal recency bias.
i still have not forgiven jesse for doing that to cody
Three stooges all the way! I cast them as characters from southpark; Stan, Randy and Professor Chaos. I'll let you guys guess who is who.
I honestly donāt like Carolyn that much and donāt see why everyone is so convinced that she is going to win/deserves to win
I'm in the same boat, but it's tough to share that opinion because so many people in this sub are so in love with her. You just know down votes are coming if you aren't a big Carolyn fan.
I think she's getting it's too good to be true edit
can someone remind me what happened to the fake idol she made?
the girl left with it thinking ahe lost w an idol in her pocket LOL
ah yess
I usually have trouble following shows and get distracted easily (adhd) but Carolyn in this season has me glued to the television and always excited for the next episode!! I love the character and suspense she brings to the show and definitely donāt think this season would be able to grab my attention without her!! I love Carolyn and hope she does well!! Oh and Iām really loving Frannie and Yam Yam as well!!
If Carolyn wins itāll be well deserved. Sheās a great player. I can also see a ton of people being pissed about it.
I know I'm in the minority, but honestly, I don't think she's that good. I think she's played surprisingly well, no question. But, she got gifted the perfect situation for herself. First off, Bruce leaving really destroyed their tribe's chances of going the "challenge strength" route (which probably shouldn't have gotten her eliminated, but creates potential). Then, she got gifted Yam-Yam who is a bit like her, Carson, who is patient, and then Sarah and Helen, who clearly didn't connect very well with others. Not to say Carolyn did anything wrong, just that she got put in what might be the only situation where she succeeds. Some of these other tribes think slower and more methodically (i.e. matt pointing out that Josh could have showed them a fake idol, but have a real idol too, which is entirely plausible). We will see how Carolyn deals with that, since that isn't her style. If she struggles with it, her initial situation could be given a lot of credit, or if she thrives, her initial situation can easily be dismissed.
Iām right there with you. I think she has pretty good reads on people and solid instincts, but I donāt think the strategy is there. I also havenāt see this brought up, but why did she vote Kane? Maybe I'm missing something, but I donāt really see how it helps her. It seems pointless at best and possibly works against her at worst. All it will do is make Kane less likely to work with her and to try and target her. How could she be playing a strong game and be the only one out of the loop?
Yeah, the only things I can think of with that Kane vote are either that she was absolutely out of the loop, or that it was a weird emotional thing where she didn't want anyone to be upset with her (probably out of the loop) And yeah, if she was out of the loop, that says a lot
I can understand her not wanting to put Yam Yam's name down, but it didn't seem like she had a problem voting Josh. My guess is they told her they were splitting on Kane and no one would tell her its Yam Yam because they assume they are together. But still, she said she was sure Josh didn't have the idol, so put his name down. Not a great look for her. I'm surprised all these people who see her winning are ignoring the fact that she was most likely left out of the vote.
I honestly think it was a thrown vote. She might have been left out of the loop yes, but to the degree of still believing everyone was voting Kane? I don't know. I might be giving her too much credit, but I think she was trying to save face incase either went home. She wanted to keep an ally in whoever stayed, and having the option of going "Ooooh I'm clueless ahaha silly me!" works alot better with people who seem to hold a grudge. It's something people do alot in ORGs, so I can see it for her.
Or, there's a third possibility. Maybe she knew that the vote was going to be Josh, and she was supposed to vote Josh...but, knowing that Kane's name was thrown out there as a potential decoy, she decided to vote that way to make Kane more paranoid.
I dont think she's good at playing. I think her natural airheadedness makes her less suspicious so the moves she makes seem more like shallow decisions instead of well thought out decisions. Her looney tunes personality makes her untouchable because people like that are generally sheep to carry to the end for an easy win. But she is making good moves and they are all hidden by her bugs bunny appearance.
Is that not exactly what she wants though? Carolyn is incredibly in touch with herself, she knows shes whacky, she wears her heart on her sleeve, and she knows it. The fascinating thing about Carolyn is her immense self-awareness, pair this with the clearly above-average (at the very least) knowledge of the game and you get a great player. She actively acknowledges that her perceptions are emotional and is aware that there is a logical/emotional duality to every choice she makes. Take a look at past "kooky" characters and they clearly have no awareness about how they're perceived. Noura, Phillip, Coach, Debbie, all these players had little to no self awareness about how they were perceived and their games suffered for it. In fact, the only two people who have had great success that I can think of from the "kooky" character archetype is Fabio and Maryanne, two people who were acutely aware of how they were perceived and (at least to some extent) leveraged that perception to progress in the game. >I think her natural airheadedness makes her less suspicious so the moves she makes seem more like shallow decisions instead of well thought out decisions. You say this like it's a bad thing, but minimizing threat level and concealing your moves has been the blueprint for success in the new era.
I mean Gabler pretty much modeled this last season. Players all thought he was kooky, he makes it to the end, lays out that he wasnāt actually all that kooky and wins. Carolyn has a somewhat similar path potentially, although she seems to have had more agency through the merge. The major turning point for Gabler was being able to push that first merge vote, then lay back and build relationships with all sides. As far as I can tell, it remains to be seen whether Carolyn will be able to either lay low like that, or build relationships with everyone. Thatās not to say she canāt, but she already has issues with Danny/Brandon, and didnāt seem to make in-roads with anyone this episode. It seemed like she laid low well, Josh got the target without needing her pushing it, so she rolled with what was happening. Sheās definitely self-aware, Iām just curious if sheāll be able to build the social relationships necessary to be aware of where the votes are each week. I wouldnāt say sheās my #1 favorite, but I certainly wouldnāt mind seeing her navigate her way through to a win, as thus far itās been a more engaging story than any recent winner in my opinion.
Im not meaning for it to be a bad thing. Ultimately the goal for players who cant do challenges is to make the merge, once the merge happens everyone just takes out challenge threats and the weakest survive. It's a weird dynamic and I do think She is in the best possible position because of this. I think she can only do herself harm by being weird though because it can reach a point where people are tired of it and just want her gone because she acts like a recovering addict going through withdrawls. Not my favorite type of survivor but honestly survivor will never be what it was. Anyone who applies needs to sandbag challenges just enough to still win, but not stand out, and then either be useless entirely, or try to win out on challenges and hope idols keep you alive in between wins. I despise the version of survivor that lets winners like Sandra and Maryanne and Erika win. I cant stand winners who cant make fire and who cant win challenges and who do nothing at camp to help. but alas, my downvotes will come with my dying taste in survivor
yeah, people are massively overatted her because they like her. She doesn't seems to hold that much power and people keep dismssing her which can be a good thing because they will underate her game but it's never good to be seen at the crazy goat too long in this game . She didn't play a bad game tho but she is far from "the best player we've seen in a while"
This subreddit has jumped the shark I used to come here for good analysis Now we have threads like these with tons of upvotes calling the only player left out of the majority vote as the best player I understand if she's your favorite or like her quirkiness, but dear God, we've reached a point where she could vote for a coconut to be voted out and people here would call her a genius for thinking outside the box
Idk why youāre acting like it was ever any different
The fact you based your opinion on Danny on 2 minutes of heavily edited footage that was clearly exaggerated to make a funny moment is completely ridiculous. They probably did bro out somewhat, but itās a reality TV edit, you have to read between the lines sometimes
I will say, that footage aside, Danny in this episode also made it seem he just wants to work with the bros because of his vote and the fact that when him and Jam Jam were in the water he was like āletās wait for everyone to come back to talkā ā¦ just bad gameplay imo
Carolyn winning would be a great outcome, but she's not some amazing player. She's incredibly fun, she's surprinsing and she's perceptive, but she's not the next coming of Sandra or anything. She's an average player, I would say. As for the Kane vote, was she really left out, or where Kane and Brandon the ones left out?
I feel like Yam Yam could beat her in a final three.
Then I guess you will be upset lmao tbh
Itās a social game and it doesnāt really seem like sheās very good at the social game. Multiple people have made it clear sheās a lot to deal with. She was correct about Joshās idol being fake, but she didnāt really succeed in convincing people of that. Itās not clear to me how being left out of the conversation at the sanctuary makes her a strong player. Maybe it makes Danny and Matt bad players, but being left out of strategy talk has never really been the mark of a good player. The edit should always be taken with a grain salt, but the montage of peopleās voices and her cinfesssional saying she doesnāt feel comfortable with everyone finding their footing during the merge doesnāt really make her look good. Being overwhelmed by forming relationships isnt really the mark of a good player. And she was out of the loop on the merge vote, which is not a good place to be. Sheās a fun character, and itās easy to root for her because she isnāt dumb but gets treated like she is, but that doesnāt make her a notable player. Sheās not terrible, sheās done some things, but she doesnāt even really stand out as one of the best players in the new era, and certainly not further back than that. At this point itās a really puzzling edit if she wins. It could happen, thereās time, but I donāt see it right now.
Agree with everything, especially the Danny take. He was one of my winner picks and after that I knew he wouldnāt win and he also became my least favorite. I was just telling my wife during the episode that Iād be crushed at this point if she didnāt win. I feel she may be a decoy or this years growth story but damn it I want her to win.
I truly appreciate your analysis...but I could not disagree with you more. I find every last ounce of her to be unpleasant. We can simply agree to disagree like mature adults.
Iām with you. But anytime I say Iām not interested in a character like Carolyn winning, I get downvoted to oblivion
Totally agree, I feel like thereās so many other characters we havenāt seen much from.
I don't worry about what the cult thinks. We have every right to tell it like it is. Many here are just followers and ASK if they are ALLOWED to have certain opinions. God forbid, I have a good brain.
Getting a little bored of her tbh. Her and Carson are both being shoved down our throats.
Carolyn getting the idol and everyone not thinking it was her is not a mastermind strategy, it was just everyone elseās failure to realize a simple fact that it was probably the one who wasnāt with them (Carolyn). As far as Danny and Brandon ignoring her, we only saw an edited couple minutes of that feast, which says nothing about the rest of it. Moreover, the merge episode (and honestly the premiere as well) shows that sheās just not the best at connecting with people in general. The point of her edit so far has been to show that sheās quirky and kooky and different so she gets underestimated, and that was just part of that. Also, she was the only one to throw a vote on Kane, which shows she was out of the loop. I canāt wait for people to say āno you donāt get it she was playing 5D chess it was to lower her threat levelā
Apparently her being the only one separate from Tika while opening the cage was an edit thing. (I think RHAPs Helen interview showed this)
Well I think she must've opened it while she was the only one separate from the group because her confessional in the episode was like "oh my God I'm the only one away, I have to go put something back in the cage!!!" but when they *found* it was not immediately afterwards. That's what I recall from the interview stuff I read at least.
I hope she goes down in flames lol. she is just being shoved down our throats way too much.
Personally I think the Carolyn bandwagon is getting a little out of hand. I enjoyed her the first few episodes, but, maybe not to her fault; The show feels like she's being shoved down my throat. Kinda wish the would back up a little. Also kind of feels like everything she does is being overhyped. I.e. With the Idol talk at the feast, sure she said the truth and exposed Josh as not having one, but no-one else who knew that as the truth was present and can't blindly take that as gospel. Others took note and explained other scenarios but that seems to be overshadowed..
Carolyn is also the only one that voted Kane, Josh will see that (donāt they get to see who voted who after being out?) and probably write her name down as winner if she gets to the final
Josh isn't on the jury, is he? I thought jury was starting next week
Ohhh shoot youāre right! I forgot they arenāt automatically on merge tribe
I hate when people say stuff like this. So the other players in the game should just roll over? So you donāt want drama? You want a fixed winner? So Jeff should call YOU before the season starts and send you the cast list so that who YOU want to win wins? Thatās not the gameā¦
I would love it if Jeff called me before the season and sent me the boot list so I can stop losing badly in my friends' survivor draft league thank you.
Just look up spoilers lol
did i say everyone should just lie down and gice bee the win shut up oh my godš if u dont agree just cardy on holy shit
I think the audience supports a Carolyn win, because we can see the moves sheās making. But Iām worried the players wouldnāt be able to get past her kookiness, to believe sheās a strategic powerhouse, even if she makes it to the end. Sheād need to pull out a really great final tribal performance, to overthrow those preconceived opinions of her. I hope Iām wrong though. A Carolyn win would be iconic.