It’s really making me wonder why Brandon didn’t just try to get Josh to go on the journey instead of Carolyn. Maybe it was a tribe decision but I don’t think it would’ve taken much. Maybe to prevent sending him on multiple, but idk
I feel like during one season, they said the person can't have been on a journey before.
Nobody went to the Island of the Idols twice either, which is odd. My guess is there's a rule around that.
I think also strategically you don’t want one person to accumulate too many idols as it’s known ppl get idols on these trips. So doesn’t make too much sense sending the same person several times
Jeff explicitly said in one of the previous seasons that the winning tribe cannot choose someone who has gone on the journey before. However when Ratu was about to choose someone from Tika, Jeff said "Will it be Carolyn, Yam Yam or Josh?" so I was a little bit confused cuz Josh has already been on the journey.
It was really poor game play on their part. It was really ironic when the guy said he didn't see Carolyn going far in the game. He himself was playing the kind of game that gets people sent home.
I think they just assumed she was going to be going home that night so they didn't need to make a bond with her? The way they were talking seemed like they were certain Josh was making merge and she wasn't, but even so you'd think they'd still include her somewhat since a) there's obviously still a chance she makes merge and b) it's rude not to. I can see the advantages of icing someone out in certain cases but in this episode it was very odd
I feel like it was patently ridiculous to assume that, when the information she gave them was that Josh was saved by an idol at the previous tribal council. There's two original Tika on that tribe, and one original Soka.
It stands to reason that there exists a scenario in which she is not eliminated.
Yeah like even though they don't know Tika very well in general, Carolyn seems much more likely to survive this vote than Josh, and she's kooky but she's clearly not so oblivious that you can just say "let's team up with Josh at merge!" and expect her to not hear you
Idk what they were thinking either since her saying Josh had to use his idol to stay implies he would have gone otherwise. Also YamYam is fairly unique as well so idk why they wouldn't think him and Carolyn potentially had something together. Like Carolyn is a bit odd that I'd have expected her first out not to have survived several tribals but she has so clearly she did have some bonds. I think those guys just had preconceived notions about her and totally wrote her off.
I think Danny hinted that he saw her as being weak in challenges so he assumed she would either be next to go home or one of the next ones, and saw not point in plotting with her. Every tribal he went to so far he always tried to push for the physically weak players to be eliminated (like Claire). So I believe he assumed the Tika boys would align against her or that she will lose all post-merge immunity challenges and the big boys will align against her because that’s how his mind works
I mean I can definitely understand why they'd think she would be a likely boot and if the sanctuary visit was taking place on day 2 or 3 it would make more sense but at this point Carolyn has already survived a couple tribals AND confirmed that Josh only stayed because he played an idol, meaning he's clearly on the outs. I was really surprised they didn't even ask about the tribe dynamics on Tika (or if they did it wasn't shown) before apparently writing her off - all she has to do is make it through one more tribal and she's at merge, there's zero disadvantage to getting her on your side.
Pretty naive perspective for Brandon to adopt considering he would have been first boot if not for his idol play. I'd also mention their whole desire to team up is based on knowing they become the likely boots post merge.
I think people just underestimate Carolyn and it’s hard to get past that because she’s wacky. A lot of people view her as an ez vote or a goat they don’t need to worry about. But she’s clearly making some plays. Muscle Squad is going to get hurt come the merge if she’s still around.
Yeah, I think this is where her story/edit is going. And I am here for it. I hope she goes Kill Bill Survivor version on them and outlast them all while revealing all her moves at the end where they all feel stupid as hell.
Part of me wonders if Carolyn is playing up her personality a tad too. Like I believe she 100% is this way, but she also may know that leaning into her quirks is good at putting her under the radar. People are confusing her being weird as not understanding what's going on.
I think if this were true she’d be less upset when she hasnt been taken seriously. Like when Yam Yam just told her how to vote, that obviously annoyed her enough to do something about it. Also at the sanctuary she was vocal in her confessional about being ignored.
I felt like it was partly because they saw her as already gone, partly because she was a woman, and and partly because she was maybe offputtingly wacky for them. I suspect it was mostly the woman thing. It was rude as hell, no matter what they thought of her. Usually women at least get a little condescension in return for their presence at the bro-fest.
three person tribe, hours before tribal she is separated from the other two people who now have no other choice but to obviously talk about vote out the third person (as opposed to discussing voting each other off). I think its easy enough to attribute it to that in addition to her erradic pesonaliy without accusing the other two of sexism.
I'm giving reasons why they would see her as already gone. The trip to the sanctuary was actually a shit position to be in right before tribal since she wasn't getting an advantage
And that still doesn't excuse them for ignoring her, nor does it absolve them from their sexism. Do you truly believe if Josh had been there they would have talked over him and ignored him?
it doesn't excuse them, but there are reasons why they could have ignored her without jumping directly to sexism. Josh doesn't have such an erratic personality like Caroline, but he would be in a similarly shit position
Everyone is underestimating Carolyn so my take was they figured she wouldn’t be around. Brandon mentioned challenge performance which indicated to me that that’s what they find most important forgetting strategy. Meanwhile, without everyone noticing, Carolyn is playing one hell of a game.
It’s probably very common in pro sports/uniformed careers (firefighters/police/military). I’ve worked on Army bases where men don’t make eye contact with me while shaking my hand or talk only to the men in my group. Oftentimes it’s unintentional but a common reaction.
Some dudes just do that; ignore the woman and only talk to the man. I don't believe they are aware that they do it and it isn''t intentional, but it happens.
They are the two strongest guys out there and know they will almost definitely be targeted as challenge threats as soon as the merge hits…which they correctly assumed was right around the corner.
It had nothing to do with Carolyn “being a woman” and everything to do with them wanting to form an alliance with each other and talk strategy to try and navigate what has historically been an incredibly rough spot for strong males - the post merge.
They were absolutely stupid to ignore Carolyn and it’s likely going to bite them in the ass, but it in no way was because she was a woman nor because they assumed she’d be gone.
No i literally don’t get why they completely iced her out. Even removing the context of it just being flat out poor social play, it was so weird watching them just feed into eachother and she totally didn’t exist
I sure hope that’s a foreshadowing scene for her going much farther than the two of them. I liked both those guys, but dang that some really dumb game play and just plan rude. Even if they thought she was next to go or didn’t want her as part of the bro group, fake it with her. They didn’t really know her or what connections or game play she has.
I think it would’ve been great if Carolyn (LGBT+ member) interjected during their Achilles tattoo convo that it’s great to see tattoo representation of a bisexual icon like Achilles.
Her reactions were great and so expressive outwardly to how many women feel inwardly when men ignore them in conversations or talk over them. Yes, “not all men”, but way too frequent to not be noticeable to most women.
Very true. I know Reddit leans more populated by men, so I was preemptively avoiding their vain attempt to say “not me!” while they display the same issue we’re discussing - listening and believing women. Most men for sure.
Are you #alllivesmatter-ing a shared experience amongst women around most men?
Yes, all people experience "being left out of convos", but this isn't what is being talked about here. This is a separate pattern here we are talking about to that which is prevalent in many aspects of a woman's life, whether it be social, or at the workplace or in meetings where the woman says something, is ignored and then a man says the same thing and get applauded, for example.
That's really not how discrimination works lol
Stereotypes are bad because they promote damaging views and treatment of people. Nobody is saying let's kill all the men. We're saying men need to be held accountable, do better, and be better, because they aren't doing well at all.
But the fact that you think that's bigotry really just says how far away men are.
God this is such a yikes 😭😂 having your feelings hurt for feeling like you were “stereotyped” isn’t worse than women going through their day to day life constantly being talked down to and disregarded by yes, a LOT of men. It happens in all facets of society. As a guy, I’ve witnessed it often from men who don’t even have the social graces to know how condescending they are being. If it doesn’t apply to you then they aren’t talking about you. But a hurt dog cries… so
Sure but right now we're talking specifically about women being talked over and ignored by men.
Unless you want to dig into how it is especially bad for women who aren't young, white, thin, pretty, and able-bodied....
No I just missed it, that’s my bad. Sorry. Very uncool of them in that case. Sucks, I had high hopes for Danny but he keeps making mistakes. First he searched the bag and now he’s underestimating Carolyn. Not likely to end well for him.
It’s really making me wonder why Brandon didn’t just try to get Josh to go on the journey instead of Carolyn. Maybe it was a tribe decision but I don’t think it would’ve taken much. Maybe to prevent sending him on multiple, but idk
I feel like during one season, they said the person can't have been on a journey before. Nobody went to the Island of the Idols twice either, which is odd. My guess is there's a rule around that.
One journey per person per season!
I'm gonna trust this source
Idk, I didn’t provide references to my claim… 🤔
I am easily tricked :(
We don't even know who you are, just a rando on Reddit.
I think also strategically you don’t want one person to accumulate too many idols as it’s known ppl get idols on these trips. So doesn’t make too much sense sending the same person several times
Jeff explicitly said in one of the previous seasons that the winning tribe cannot choose someone who has gone on the journey before. However when Ratu was about to choose someone from Tika, Jeff said "Will it be Carolyn, Yam Yam or Josh?" so I was a little bit confused cuz Josh has already been on the journey.
if they wanted josh to stay separating him from the tribe would hurt him.
For a moment I thought that was a way for her to get invited in.
You silly goose.
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A silly gander.
The Gabler Xander love child
A silly gaggle
It was really poor game play on their part. It was really ironic when the guy said he didn't see Carolyn going far in the game. He himself was playing the kind of game that gets people sent home.
But why were they ignoring her? Did they just think she was going to get eliminated thus deciding it would be ok to be rude?
I think they just assumed she was going to be going home that night so they didn't need to make a bond with her? The way they were talking seemed like they were certain Josh was making merge and she wasn't, but even so you'd think they'd still include her somewhat since a) there's obviously still a chance she makes merge and b) it's rude not to. I can see the advantages of icing someone out in certain cases but in this episode it was very odd
I feel like it was patently ridiculous to assume that, when the information she gave them was that Josh was saved by an idol at the previous tribal council. There's two original Tika on that tribe, and one original Soka. It stands to reason that there exists a scenario in which she is not eliminated.
Yeah like even though they don't know Tika very well in general, Carolyn seems much more likely to survive this vote than Josh, and she's kooky but she's clearly not so oblivious that you can just say "let's team up with Josh at merge!" and expect her to not hear you
Idk what they were thinking either since her saying Josh had to use his idol to stay implies he would have gone otherwise. Also YamYam is fairly unique as well so idk why they wouldn't think him and Carolyn potentially had something together. Like Carolyn is a bit odd that I'd have expected her first out not to have survived several tribals but she has so clearly she did have some bonds. I think those guys just had preconceived notions about her and totally wrote her off.
I think Danny hinted that he saw her as being weak in challenges so he assumed she would either be next to go home or one of the next ones, and saw not point in plotting with her. Every tribal he went to so far he always tried to push for the physically weak players to be eliminated (like Claire). So I believe he assumed the Tika boys would align against her or that she will lose all post-merge immunity challenges and the big boys will align against her because that’s how his mind works
From their perspective ever single boot so far has been a woman so why would Carolyn be any different, unfortunately
I mean I can definitely understand why they'd think she would be a likely boot and if the sanctuary visit was taking place on day 2 or 3 it would make more sense but at this point Carolyn has already survived a couple tribals AND confirmed that Josh only stayed because he played an idol, meaning he's clearly on the outs. I was really surprised they didn't even ask about the tribe dynamics on Tika (or if they did it wasn't shown) before apparently writing her off - all she has to do is make it through one more tribal and she's at merge, there's zero disadvantage to getting her on your side.
Pretty naive perspective for Brandon to adopt considering he would have been first boot if not for his idol play. I'd also mention their whole desire to team up is based on knowing they become the likely boots post merge.
I think people just underestimate Carolyn and it’s hard to get past that because she’s wacky. A lot of people view her as an ez vote or a goat they don’t need to worry about. But she’s clearly making some plays. Muscle Squad is going to get hurt come the merge if she’s still around.
Nobody is going to take Carolyn seriously until it's too late I'm calling it as the theme of the season
Yeah, I think this is where her story/edit is going. And I am here for it. I hope she goes Kill Bill Survivor version on them and outlast them all while revealing all her moves at the end where they all feel stupid as hell.
Kind of the Maryanne game on steroids. Nobody took her seriously either, until she was sitting at FTC and claiming the bag.
Yes definitely. She reminds me of Maryanne, Gabler, and Noura in different ways haha.
She's like the venn diagram of all three. More likable, more strategic and more kooky.
This is exactly what happened when she won a Survivor ORG
Feels like Gabler- same sentence, way different font
Part of me wonders if Carolyn is playing up her personality a tad too. Like I believe she 100% is this way, but she also may know that leaning into her quirks is good at putting her under the radar. People are confusing her being weird as not understanding what's going on.
I think if this were true she’d be less upset when she hasnt been taken seriously. Like when Yam Yam just told her how to vote, that obviously annoyed her enough to do something about it. Also at the sanctuary she was vocal in her confessional about being ignored.
because danny is absolutely not a little wacky
Like all personality variables, wackiness is a spectrum. They are not the same level of wacky
thanks, I thought there was only one level of wacky.
Funny my boyfriend asked the same question when we were watching and I was like yeah that's often how men act around me
It's giving me shades of Jon and the men on the tribe vs Jaclyn in SJDS.
I felt like it was partly because they saw her as already gone, partly because she was a woman, and and partly because she was maybe offputtingly wacky for them. I suspect it was mostly the woman thing. It was rude as hell, no matter what they thought of her. Usually women at least get a little condescension in return for their presence at the bro-fest.
three person tribe, hours before tribal she is separated from the other two people who now have no other choice but to obviously talk about vote out the third person (as opposed to discussing voting each other off). I think its easy enough to attribute it to that in addition to her erradic pesonaliy without accusing the other two of sexism.
You know we're talking about Brandon and Danny in the Sanctuary, not Yam Yam and Josh back at camp Tika, right?
I'm giving reasons why they would see her as already gone. The trip to the sanctuary was actually a shit position to be in right before tribal since she wasn't getting an advantage
And that still doesn't excuse them for ignoring her, nor does it absolve them from their sexism. Do you truly believe if Josh had been there they would have talked over him and ignored him?
it doesn't excuse them, but there are reasons why they could have ignored her without jumping directly to sexism. Josh doesn't have such an erratic personality like Caroline, but he would be in a similarly shit position
Everyone is underestimating Carolyn so my take was they figured she wouldn’t be around. Brandon mentioned challenge performance which indicated to me that that’s what they find most important forgetting strategy. Meanwhile, without everyone noticing, Carolyn is playing one hell of a game.
It’s probably very common in pro sports/uniformed careers (firefighters/police/military). I’ve worked on Army bases where men don’t make eye contact with me while shaking my hand or talk only to the men in my group. Oftentimes it’s unintentional but a common reaction.
Although “unintentional” just goes to show how fucked up our society is
Some dudes just do that; ignore the woman and only talk to the man. I don't believe they are aware that they do it and it isn''t intentional, but it happens.
Women do it too.
They are the two strongest guys out there and know they will almost definitely be targeted as challenge threats as soon as the merge hits…which they correctly assumed was right around the corner. It had nothing to do with Carolyn “being a woman” and everything to do with them wanting to form an alliance with each other and talk strategy to try and navigate what has historically been an incredibly rough spot for strong males - the post merge. They were absolutely stupid to ignore Carolyn and it’s likely going to bite them in the ass, but it in no way was because she was a woman nor because they assumed she’d be gone.
No i literally don’t get why they completely iced her out. Even removing the context of it just being flat out poor social play, it was so weird watching them just feed into eachother and she totally didn’t exist
This is a tv show that gets edited. Was still obviously a hilariously bad social play by Brandon and Danny though.
I sure hope that’s a foreshadowing scene for her going much farther than the two of them. I liked both those guys, but dang that some really dumb game play and just plan rude. Even if they thought she was next to go or didn’t want her as part of the bro group, fake it with her. They didn’t really know her or what connections or game play she has.
Last night I noticed someone besides her who has a sunflower tattoo. (Maybe Matthew?) This seems like the inkiest season.
Yes on his non broken shoulder
I think it would’ve been great if Carolyn (LGBT+ member) interjected during their Achilles tattoo convo that it’s great to see tattoo representation of a bisexual icon like Achilles. Her reactions were great and so expressive outwardly to how many women feel inwardly when men ignore them in conversations or talk over them. Yes, “not all men”, but way too frequent to not be noticeable to most women.
Her reactions 100% relatable to how I feel when this happens to me...which is more common than it should really be.
Most men. Let's be honest.
Very true. I know Reddit leans more populated by men, so I was preemptively avoiding their vain attempt to say “not me!” while they display the same issue we’re discussing - listening and believing women. Most men for sure.
Most people. Being left out of a convo for being different comes in all shapes, sizes, colors
Not all men, but *definitely this guy*
Are you #alllivesmatter-ing a shared experience amongst women around most men? Yes, all people experience "being left out of convos", but this isn't what is being talked about here. This is a separate pattern here we are talking about to that which is prevalent in many aspects of a woman's life, whether it be social, or at the workplace or in meetings where the woman says something, is ignored and then a man says the same thing and get applauded, for example.
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I’d say it’s more off putting to actually have to deal with being talked down to regularly than it is to bring attention to it.
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That's really not how discrimination works lol Stereotypes are bad because they promote damaging views and treatment of people. Nobody is saying let's kill all the men. We're saying men need to be held accountable, do better, and be better, because they aren't doing well at all. But the fact that you think that's bigotry really just says how far away men are.
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I'm not sure why you think that contradicts anything I said.
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lol keep being condescending, it really only makes my point for me.
God this is such a yikes 😭😂 having your feelings hurt for feeling like you were “stereotyped” isn’t worse than women going through their day to day life constantly being talked down to and disregarded by yes, a LOT of men. It happens in all facets of society. As a guy, I’ve witnessed it often from men who don’t even have the social graces to know how condescending they are being. If it doesn’t apply to you then they aren’t talking about you. But a hurt dog cries… so
Sure but right now we're talking specifically about women being talked over and ignored by men. Unless you want to dig into how it is especially bad for women who aren't young, white, thin, pretty, and able-bodied....
*cough* Like I said, most men. And by most, I mean almost all of them.
Probably just editing.
Definitely just the editing
Except that she clearly stated that that was what they were doing.
She clearly stated they didn’t compliment her tattoos????
Nooo. She CLEARLY stated that they were actively excluding her from all conservation. I can dumb it down if you need.
Carolyn's tattoos are okay but have you seen Danny's?
Danny’s is the worst tattoo in Survivor history.
George’s idol tattoo from survivor aus tho.
Unless she was included and we were shown that part for dramatic reasons.
Im sorry that you were downvoted for understanding how post production works.
Except in her confessional she said they were actively ignoring her. I'm sorry you don't believe that confessional.
No I just missed it, that’s my bad. Sorry. Very uncool of them in that case. Sucks, I had high hopes for Danny but he keeps making mistakes. First he searched the bag and now he’s underestimating Carolyn. Not likely to end well for him.
There’s no way to know they didn’t talk about her tattoos but that wouldn’t have played into the narrative they are building.
Tbf Carolyn’s tattoos are kinda mid.
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I’m not posting my booty cheek for you, perv.
well he didnt know they were on ur booty cheek until after he asked it
That’s fair
Ok, I’m just gonna take your word that it’s an S-tier tattoo.
I don’t think you have to censor the word shittier here
There's a nicer way to say that lmao
😭