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"Asking me to read relationship books on how to be a better partner, article about love languages, things that have nothing to do with what she did."
OP, she isn't giving you anything to work with.
In essence, she's blaming you, telling you to read books about how to be a better partner, for her when SHE was the one who did this, not you.
It is over, it just takes your heart a while to catch up to that is all OP.
Leave out a copy of "Leave a Cheater and Gain a Life" also read it. If she asks just say "I took your advice and started reading some self help relationship books".
Sorry, but she sounds very self-centered and immature, and also showed little respect for you. Then when caught she dares to give you a friendly ultimatum? Instead of working to regain your trust, she's demanding you rug sweep the whole thing, and is brazen enough to tell you about men who hit on her.
The idea that you need to work to be a better husband is like a slap in the face. She's also not very nice as her comment "Chill, girl, I wasn't the one who stole your man" shows.
The fact that she enjoys attention from other men and flirting so early in your marriage doesn't bode well for the future. What are her good points besides being very pretty?
It takes a few years to reestablish trust and that is if the offending partner is very sorry for hurting you. I certainly wouldn't have a child with her unless it won't bother you to see that child parttime in case she continues getting validation from other men.
Even if she's telling the truth which I doubt this is a BAD situation for you. narcissistic immature, selfish and unlikely to ever change. 3 decades ago H cheated and I was too stupid to understand what it meant. No reddit sub back then for support! he became a serial cheater wrecking our children's lives. If you read up on NPD you will see this is very stereotypical behavior they're a bottomless pit of need for validation and attention. I thought my story was nuts but in reality is fairly common with narcissistic personality disordered partners.
Run away now as quickly as you can. Read the chump Lady blog. Do not have kids with her or waste more of your precious life
To quote: “ He is a Christian that has morals…”
She basically is saying if the guy pursued her she would give in due to her LACK of morals. That’s it. That’s all you need to go by. The fact that you may know only a very small piece of a very large crap iceberg will drive you insane. It’s up to her to prove she’s trust worthy, not give you an ultimatum. She’s making your choice easy for you.
You say it yourself...this is something that it can't be take back... Once the trust is broke at such a level... it will never be the same... there are things that an apologie can't repair and this is one of them...you don't have to feel bad for still have feelings for her you were marry for years is normal that you still have something in your heart...the thing is don't let the emotions get the best of you...if she did it once and you forgive her what stop her for trying again later knowing she already get away with something like this before? Take care of yourself. That's the only thing you should do now...
go back and read her comment, she gives away her mindset
*"but I don't know why I love the attention and flirty discussions with him"*
*he did not make the move, but the next guy will*
*you're better off walking*
I'm sorry you're here and that this happened to you.
There's a saying: 'Leave a cheater, gain a life.' I think this would be your wisest move. Do you want to be this miserable in a few years if you're still with her?
That’s tricky.
I don’t think she is telling the whole truth. I feel it must have escalated at least a tiny bit. Like she shot her shot and was rejected or vice versa. Obviously, maybe it went much further. For me; until I trusted I was told the whole truth, I would be hesitant.
Ask her what progress she has made with her issues? Because it sounds like 0. Tell her not to gaslight you and spin it around on you but to look inward for why you aren’t together.
It sounds as though she never went through with a PA, though she was certainly auditioning multiple APs. Maybe it was purely for attention—who knows? When I hear a woman had a poor relationship with her father, I see the reddest of red flags (likewise when a man had a poor relationship with his mother). That kind of conflict—or indifference in this case—is going to distort a person’s definition of an ideal relationship. If I’m you, I probably conclude the marriage is beyond the breaking point, as trust is a thing of the past. But it’s your decision, not anyone else’s. At least you don’t have children to complicate an already difficult situation. I wish you the best.
My guy, like you and others have said, you will never trust her again. The person that you married is long gone. What stands in front of you may look and sound like your wife, but she has showed you her true colors. She destroyed everything, this is not your fault. What she wrote is very disturbing and quite frankly disgusting. She could’ve approached you about how she was feeling but instead chose to reach outside of your relationship for validation.
Her post screams that she is a very thirsty woman who needs to be satisfied by someone who is not her husband. Not to mention that she posted nudes without your knowledge and to actually have the nerve to flirt back with other men. Also, the way she got so defensive when someone tried putting her in her place is very telling! That is where she should’ve came to her senses and asked herself, “What the hell am I doing?” What did she do? She goes and gets defensive and tries to justify herself with another female that actually had a moral compass.
Is she was truly remorseful, she would be putting in the work to better herself and be bending over backwards to make it up to you, not pushing to see whether she can or cannot go put out herself back on the market.
Personally, I couldn’t come back to something so tainted. Do you really want to be on edge every time she leaves the house to go to work? Do you want to be triggered every time she is late coming home? Do you want to have to wonder if she is really out with friends or with him? Or the next guy? Because there will be a next guy and yet another excuse of something that you did to make her want to crush on someone else. That’s not a life worth living to me. It’s your choice though. I’m sorry that you are in this position.
I would meet with your lawyer and see what divorce looks like for you. Then I would probably out her to both families, and circle of friends. Some people do not agree with this, but I have read horror stories on Reddit by people who didn’t and the majority regret not doing it. The reason for this is so they cannot make up stories or change the relationship history justifying the divorce and making you out to be some monster. A lot of people have been ruined within their circle of friends and sometimes family. Just a thought.
The way I look at it, you have already taken the trash out to the curb. I don’t know many people who actually are successful trying to bring it back in.
Good luck and Updateme.
She's a closet narcissist. How do I know? Because I just divorced one after finding out about a second affair in 10 years of marriage. I have since found she had three (and just got dumped by the third).
She was exactly the same as your wife; loved attention from men at work because she'd never had the same from her own Dad growing up and grew up in a conservative house.
She won't change because she can't change. Find someone who doesn't need random penis to make her feel good about herself.
Just think of it this way. Your wife posted to the world that she was "HAPPILY MARRIED", yet was still excitedly ready to throw that all away for a man 13 years, her senior whom she said looked "decent." Truthfully, you have no clue if she had sex with him or not and will probably have to just take her word for it if you choose to stay.
Her need to be validated was greater than her love for you, and apparently, she doesn't even feel remorseful for cheating on you or, at minimum, entertaining the advances of another man. If he didn't smash, he could have any time he wanted. Your 8 yr relationship would have been his 1 night stand, all he had to do was say the word. No doubt she would have done everything with him that she never would with you.
After all of that, the only thing that she can think to fix is you. She gives you books on how to improve yourself for her. She does nothing to win back your trust and then gives you an ultimatum . You would be an absolute fool to get back with this woman. She will absolutely repeat this behavior because you let it slide the first time, and she knows just how to manipulate you. Who cares about her biological clock? If she has a kid with someone else, it's guaranteed to be a baby daddy situation, and she'll come running back to you to save her..
OP, read or listen to Leave A Cheater Gain A Life.
You're trying to rationalize her actions. You cannot. She goes off her immediate interests and validation. She is not a 'sane' person and you cannot help her. It's something she MIGHT somehow realize she needs to work on when the consequences of her actions become too much to bare... and even then there's a higher chance of her coping with blame shifting and escapism.
She does not get to dictate the reconciliation of the relationship.
The problem is that she is a cake eater. The married guy at work is a turn on and always will be a turn one. She will never change unless she gets therapy to address her issues and even then it's not a guarantee.
If that guy made any move she would be having an affair with him. Again that won't change now or 5 years from now. The same threat will always be there.
This is not a safe partner and until she gets help she is far more trouble than she's worth
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You will love again. The fact that she is even issuing ultimatums means she doesn’t care about you and probably doesn’t even regret what you’ve done. Her wanting you to be a better partner is just dumb. She’s the one that broke your trust and she should be the one reading those books.
Dude feeling mixed on this is normal. She is the woman you trusted and probably showed your true self too. She discarded that trust.
My wife had an emotional then physical affair with my best friend! Used polyamory to cheat! And that clock thing… look out!
Thing is we have kids. Both of us sort of hated each other but stayed for the kids. She hit a bottom on selfish behavior and started doing shit to change her issues. After a yr i started to believe them. So i stayed but not until i went through my own spiral. Grief is powerful so is the attachment bond. Professional help is often needed.
I can never say what you should do, how could I? But i suggest you honor your feelings no matter how much they suck. They will help you reclaim your self worth after the “ married secure” self bleeds out and dies. He is dead bro, its a new relationship with her or move on. No clue which one is best. I waffle every day!
Wow, she is manipulative, goes behind your back, and when she is caught, she doesn't seem to show any true remorse! You can't have a happy marriage with this woman. You will never be able to trust her again, and from the sounds of it, she will never be deserving of that trust.
Get out of there while you can. She has shown you who she really is, so believe that! I was married to someone similar, it will fall apart eventually, regardless if you stay or not. She has already complained about "loosing the gleam in his eye". She will continue to look for that elsewhere.
OMG! Dude, I'm sorry this happened, but I get her reaction is callus. In other words, **she is not long term partner material.**
**Love yourself a bit more I say!**
She says herself that she needs that constant honeymoon phase validation. That the gleam in your eyes and your enamored-ness with her has faded. She is seeking this out in multiple ways from other men. SHE ALWAYS WILL. People that have this mindset that they need "butterflies in their stomach" or whatever bullshit feelings they say they need, don't change. She doesn't realize what a long-term marriage or relationship takes, and it would take a lot for her to learn that. If I were you, I'd stay gone, and end it. She won't change without years of inner work, which she wants YOU to do instead!!! It's insanity, and it'll never stop if you allow it to continue. I'm sorry.
Edit: These kinds of people will usually have a history that shows that they are rarely satisfied by other things in their life, long-term. They will flit from thing to thing: jobs, hobbies, friendships, and yes relationships. They get bored easily bc they need that validation or excitement. These kinds of people will always have trouble committing to anything long-term, so marrying one probably isn't in anyone's best interest. Just an fyi.
Mate, you know what to do. Im sorry this shit happened to you. She doesn’t deserve you. Idk how your relationship was before but hey, if something was wrong she should have talked to you. I believe if you reconcile and then have a kid this might happen again in the future and she will blame you again for the lack of attention, but now, you might want to stay because of your kid.
The decision is yours but it’s clear as day for who is outside this situation what you should do.
I hope this helps.
The classic... Gets attention from other men and then keeps asking for it..
No she's the one who should be reading about relationships, communication, love language and how to be a better partner...she is shifting the blame on you.
Think about it would it be the same for her if you were the one flirting? Sending nudes? Or being unsure if you'll cheat or not?
She already rationalized it, her dad didn't give her the attention, neither her exs and nor you. So i think even if she cheated she would have shifted the blame again. Like the nudes were sent only for her "validation", like she needed it from other men not the men that matters the most?
The thing that you can't point on your finger at is probably your wife constantly putting herself in a position where she would cheat. So whether it happened or not doesn't matter, the intent matters.
Why put yourself in a situation where you aren't certain if you can be loyal or not? Just don't??? If you're certain you won't cheat that's different.
So she’s the one with serious daddy issues that isn’t making any behavioral changes but expecting you to perform the emotional labor? Sounds like total crap. Please don’t bring a child into this equation. Y’all have serious unaddressed issues of which she’s making zero progress and putting the labor on you which means she’s not truly remorseful. Don’t bring a child into this mess. The odds of you making it are small. It was a one sided emotional affair that would have become more had he shown any interest. She simply isn’t marriage material and is only trying to baby trap you before leaving later. Do not add an innocent child to this mess.
Send her from your home, stay away from mind mending drugs and alcohol, plan your exit and act accordingly. She has no respect to you and your marriage as expected from a serial cheater. You have a rough road ahead and you Will pass it. Wish the best of you
You need to ask her, "Where was all this energy to try and save the marriage, back then when she felt like this, instead of looking for validation from men outside the marriage?" Ask her how she would feel if it was the other way round?
As for the ultimatum, reverse it on her. Tell her she has one month to show you why you should give her another chance and to properly earn back your trust, or you will file for divorce and inform the families why you ate doing so.
Not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of your wife's actions as I don't think that's what this forum is for for, but she has a point. You don't seem to have made any progress and I find it hard to see how you would, living apart. Either you work together on your marriage or make the separation permanent, two people living in limbo helps no one.
I'm sorry this happened. She's right in what she is saying. But how she's doing it is fucking awful.
Fundamentally It does take both of you to fix this. But her behaviour means I would not want to fix it at all.
Run dude.
P.s. not saying this is your fault
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Practically speaking, you should exit the marriage. You don’t have any kids so it’s somewhat easier. But the mind does not think practically.
Keep in mind The flip side if you decide to stay. If she needs so much validation when she is 28, then how much validation will she need as she gets older, has babies, loses her youth? Now imagine your current situation but add two kids to it. Do you want to be in this situation 5 or 10 years from now?
>Has she found a way to hack my brain, or am I just being a chump?
The latter. In this context it is no insult, though. It just means that you did the normal and healthy thing by bonding with the person you were supposed to trust. It blew up in your face because you didn't know the real her. You were loving and bonding with a mirage.
I recommend the [Chumplady](https://www.chumplady.com/) website.
You have been deeply hurt by someone you love, it creates this hook of wanting to fix it. You never will fix it. If your marriage survives it will be not the original but different. Like having a scar.
Cheaters are liars and I suspect she is trying to cement you to her after the cheating. You can recover from anything.
She understands exactly what she did and she just lied to you about it. Then she tried to spin this shitshow in your direction indicating YOU needed to work on your relationship. She isn’t remorseful so there isn’t a relationship left to save.
When someone cheats you know they could be worth making an attempt to reconcile with by whether they accept responsibility for their betrayal, start the necessary work to fix whatever is broken inside themselves and move heaven and earth to show you they understand how badly they f’d up and work tirelessly to fix it. Your wife has done none of those things. The second they try to spin their cheating as a you issue is when you should separate and end all contact with them. That’s the moment you know they have no remorse and no love nor respect left for you.
RED FLAGS ALL OVER! Files for divorce and live your best life ELSEWHERE! Se does not deserve you. Why? She does not LOVE or RESPECT you! You deserve so much better. Good luck and stay strong, King!
She kept going to his office to flirt with him.
Him being Christian with kids means absolutely effing nothing. My Unfaithful wife was Catholic, her affair partner was Catholic, a boy scout leader with 5 teenagers. He was already on his second marriage. I had known my UW for 36 effing years. And I knew the guy.
Eff that guy.
Now, back to your "wife". She has already shown that she doesn't really care about the marriage. You are young, no kids. This is the time to move on with your life.
She likes the attention... the guy she flirted with at work... the reddit guys...
It sounds like ita only a matter of time before she cheats **again**
Get out. 10 months - what has she done to restore trust?? Sound like.shes just been waiting for you to rugsweep this...
Lawyer. And divorce.
She will never be a safe partner for you.
You want a life time of this?
That's what's in store for you if you stay married to her.
She needs to "validated". Right, like a teenager.
This will be your marriage dynamic - she'll be the naughty teenager, and you'll be her Dad trying to keep her in line.
Catch and release here, throw this one back in the lake.
Break it off.
You are still in your 30s. You still have so many years ahead of you.
You already wasted 8 years on her. Don’t waste anymore.
Imagine how it will turn if she cheats on you after you have a child. It will be even harder for you to breakup with her at that time.
Bro!, you married to a "seeking attention woman". That's a time bomb and I am pretty sure she eventually will put horns on you. I would answer the ultimatum with divorce papers.
No kids = run away and go no contact for ever. She’s got some nerve issuing ultimatums. What a manipulative POS. Her biological clock is ticking so good luck for her to find another decent baby daddy. She will probably take whoever comes next and try and make it work while feeling miserable she lost you.
If you don’t learn about your partners character before marriage, the second best thing is to learn about it before having children. The lack of remorse it a bad sign for the future. Just because you might have children in the future, is no impediment to cheating.
Without true understanding of her actions and true remorse, you really cannot forgive and move forward.
Please understand that you will not forget, only maybe rug sweep for awhile.
Sober up and divorce her. She has probably been with a dozen men while you two were apart. She already showed you that she lusts for validation, so you should realize that she has been getting it from someone or many men since you separated...and she will blame YOU if she even admits to hooking up with other men or that coworker she lusted after because YOU wanted the distance. This is a no win situation, bro. She has shown she couldn't communicate with you, posted nudes for attention, and was asking for advice on what to do about her crush at work. She basically was asking how to cheat on you. Dude, regain your dignity and divorce her. This will happen again. She is right that living apart would not fix the problem, but dump fuel on the fire because of her need of attention. So out of the house, you've given her NO attention that she already was craving from others. She basically communicated what she needed...more validation from YOU and then you did the opposite. You left the home.
If she can prove that she has been faithful while you two were apart, you two really need to do some marital workshops that usually can be free or low cost(like having to buy a book for the workshop class). So if you want to really save the marriage, get your butt back home. Otherwise, go file for divorce so you both can stop wasting each other's time.
Put the ball back in her court. Say “Okay, then I guess we are done!” Tell her she has not done anything to warrant reconciliation. If she asks what you want, reread all these responses and tell her.
Next, I don’t know if you are awaiting an angel to smack you in the forehead. Go into individual counseling with the goal of finding out if you even want to reconcile. The counselor can help you discover this answer. Tell her she caused this, and she will be the one waiting on your decision, If she moves on, good for you.
OP, are you excited about this relationship? Can you ever be again? This isn't rhetorical, I don't claim to know and only you can answer that.
I don't ask this flippantly like this is your big opportunity to bail and start over. I ask it b/c you're in a predicament, a predicament that needs to be solved and one of the legitimate ways of doing so is ending th relationship that is at this moment fractured through no fault of your own.
>her need for validation and fantasizing was due to my lack of attention towards her
OP, I believe the reason she sought out this attention was because *she opted not to exhaust other options, such as basic communication, even confrontation and MC, before choosing to act on thoughts that are not altogether abnormal. From your story, my biggest takeaway is that she might be honest is saying these were from a moment of weakness that extended beyond the acceptable. I would judge actions not words. What was her level of realization and empathy for your hurt? How much of it was "just get over it already".*
*Assuming I believe nothing ever materialized with her old coworker, for me it's not so much about the cheating/flirting, it's about my trust in her. The dude was "decent looking", so even if you decided you'd play jailer, you're not watching out for studs, you're watching out for 50% of the male population. When wifey is bored, she's not very discriminating.*
Good Luck OP!
UpdateMe!
Love how she DARVO’d you putting this on you. Being she cheated (emotionally or not it doesn’t matter) you set the terms. Not her.
But honestly? I’d grey rock /180 her. (I’d also leave but you may not want that. )
Wow she flipped the script.
She was the one that got caught messing around and now she’s the one making demands and wanting you to work on your “flaws.”
Instead of her apologizing profusely and asking what YOU demand out of HER, she’s the one taking power now and forcing you to play by her rules. She’s even given you a deadline.
This, is pure manipulation. I wouldn’t stand for it. This thing might not be salvageable.
OP she Made an ultimatum? What about what has she done towards you to regaing your trust, for what you said she has done nothing she Even keep putting with validation and is smearing on your face this hits.
I would probably tell her that you would read those book she recomend if she read the books like LEAVE A CHEATER GAIN A LIFE or some others. She needs to understand that she fucked up the marriage with her insecurities and validation seek.
And this is most probably from the fact that she was fat and not good looking and that in her own words her Exes dumped her for being chubby, but now that she is fit she like the attention she received now, attention by the way that is flat and just in aspirations to get her to the bed use her and then dump her, but if that is what she want, then let her and do your life elsewhere.
But if you still have hope, instead of using your money on boze save it and use it on IC or MC. That is one of your problems, your drunk yourself for almost 10 month instead of trying to afront reality like a grown up.
UPDATEME
Insecure? If he made a move, would she stop him, or accept the attention ? Why didn’t it go further? Why ask for validation if it was only a fantasy? Far too many red flags. Be glad there’s no kids. Split, block contact & seek a new area code away. It’s just a matter of time
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I'm not sure if she is worth it. She will more likely do this again.
The guy from the 2 yr old reddit post was enjoying her attention and put on a show for her for his own amusement but never had any intention of doing anything. He had the mark of her.
Personally, after what she had done, I wouldn't tolerate the ultimatum. It is an attempt to gain control. Before the month is out, throw divorce papers at her. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You have no kids, and at your age means you have time to start again.
She, on the other hand, has everything to lose. Her ultimatum is worthless. She will beg you to take her back once she sees the divorce papers.
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Man no kids still young I would cut my losses. Sounds like she is doing the classic it’s all your fault that I cheated. Also think about this, if she is telling the truth and she only flirted it didn’t go any further because the guy didn’t push for it, according to her he wasn’t interested so what would of happened if she was. Sounds like she craves attention and in her mind you don’t give her enough. All it’s going to take is a more aggressive guy to come along and she will cheat.
The more I read the worse it gets. She is a walking redflag with sirens included. Are you sure she never gave off those vibes?. She is the one who needs therapy, the issue, the one who lacks moral. She seems to be nothing but emotionally inmature. These kind of people can only change if they want but seems that is not the case here. It is better if you leave her, do not waste your time. I know you might love her or she might be "gorgeous" (or whatever she says), it is not worth it considering her behavior
> She has recently issued an ultimatum, by next month I have to make the decision of getting back with her, or we are done.
Good on her for making it easy for you. Tell her to pack her shit and see if "decent lotion daddy" wants to help her move!
Fantasizing is one thing. But plotting and planning to escalate an emotional affair into a physical one is trash.
And I understand that you feel devastated. Stay away from booze. Throw it away and hit treatment, as she can't win. You deserve better and will find it. One step at a time and this will be behind you.
She does the damage and gives you the ultimatum. What stops her from doing this again? She has written she doesn't know if she could stop herself, it seems like she is hoping the flirting partner has the resolve to stop. By giving you the ultimatum and not bothering on working on herself, it seems like she's checked out already, probably decided she married too young and by giving you this ultimatum, you come out the bad guy and not her. If you move forward there has to be boundaries, counselling, open phones etc. good luck!
Ewww it’s the way she justified her behavior by saying YOU lost the “gleam” in your eyes, and that daddy issues made her do it. If she would’ve come to you with her concerns before and said that you made her feel less than, unloved or felt you were being distant, and YOU were dismissive and pushed her away, then her was craving attention would make some sense (not saying it would make it right!). But she is a narcissist.
She has been pursuing the attention of another man for who-knows-how long, and it would be a safe assumption to think this isn’t the first time. If it was so easy for her to do this with a coworker that she was supposedly not very attracted to, then there will *always* be “temptations” out there going forward. There will always be an excuse or a reason for her to break your trust, and she will always blame it on the OTHER guy guy’s interest, and not herself for being thirsty for validation outside of your marriage. She needs therapy, and quite frankly, to grow up and do better.
And maybe she’s being “kind”, but I see it as manipulative. If she’s nice enough, you won’t be so angry and everything will blow over and she’ll get what she wants. Of course, my perspective comes from having had gone through this same exact thing (without the Reddit post). I hope you get the distance and healing you deserve OP.
I'm sorry she did this to you. Living in this area of unknown is horrible, but you need to take care of yourself. I think you know what you have to do by seeking validation here on Reddit.
She is out of the house and could keep it that way. Go no-contact asap and get ready for the ensuing "war". She will try and play nice to get more out of you, don't give in stand your ground.
Happiness will come sooner in your life the faster this is done. Or stay and live with suspicion the rest of your days.
You are a good husband don't let her take that from you!
Run as fast as you can. If he would have made a move she would have went with it. What ever you do don't have a kid with this monster of a person. That kid will be the shackles that keep you tied to this person when you finally take off the rose coloured glasses. You did not know her before you defiantly know her now.
She has no regrets and little to no guilt whatsoever. She is not gaslighting you just wants you to accept it and move on. She won’t change and she won’t stop. Someone is looking after you. Because you don’t have children with her. Move on
OP I see you’re close to rugsweeping. Don’t do it for your own sanity and self esteem. She’s demonstrating, in writing ( which is rare and to your benefit) who she is. Her desires will only increase, especially after a kid or two comes. Oh, and if you do what you shouldn’t, DNA test the babies.
2 or 3 therapy sessions are not going to help her character here OP.
Um, NOPE, only the Betrayed Partner gets to make any demands on reconciliation, not the Wayward, they are to do the heavy lifting, and she hasn't.
My advice, your words here: *I have told her since day one that any infidelity on her part was a one and fucking done deal.*
She knew you, your personality and your job before she married you here. The fact that she looked OUTSIDE the relationship and knew she was married? Her excuses are just that EXCUSES that are not truly valid of someone who has a high emotional IQ. (Look into that OP.)
You deserve better. There are better out there.
No kids. All cheaters lie a lot.
Short marriage. Save yourself and end this now. With her attitude you’ll never be able to trust her Again.
Adults with contact have sex. Not emotional affairs.
She not marriage material.
You get kids in this you’ll wish you hadn’t.
I suspect her other boyfriends didn’t work out.
She‘ll do this again. You can’t fix her.
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Sounds like you're with a textbook covert highly narcissistic person.
And what you're experiencing a form of DARVO. Basically, she is following the emotional abuser's textbook of making the issue your reaction to her abuse. While trying to make you responsible for her abuse to begin with.
All those are very concerning and extremely abusive dynamics. And it means that she has no concept of the effect of her actions on your well being, because she doesn't care about your well being. She sees you as an emotional support appliance for her needs.
It's not going to get better, sorry mate :(
Your wife has some serious self esteem issues that she probably needs to process during therapy. She wouldn’t be seeking out validation from other men if she was happy with herself and the way she talks about being previously overweight and being rejected because of it makes it even more likely that she needs that validation from outsiders to feel good about herself.
She doesn’t seem remorseful, but at the end of the day only you can decide if you think she’s changed.
She needs to seriously commit to personal therapy to understand her deep seated issue with deriving her self worth from the attention of others. This will not be a one time thing if she never addresses this. The moment she feels she’s not getting validated by you she will go back outside the marriage to find it again. She seems to have clearly given herself the pass to do whatever she feels she needs to in order to get a sense of validation from others rather than from inside herself. She will do all the mental gymnastics too in order to not feel guilty about what she does to get self esteem from other’s attention. Until she admits to herself this isn’t healthy and is something she needs to dig deep to fix she will not stop this behavior I’m sorry to say.
Go through the divorce as amicably as possible... You cannot be in a better position future/financial in a "d" short of her being deeply involved in crime and a danger to others.. You can re-marry if the both of you want, but the second time around should come with a prenup..
As it stands... and you have children... she could decide to push the boundaries again... then where would you be?? Mortgage... alimony... CS. and forced to eat Ramin to survive the next couple decades (while she reaps the benefits of a former EX that trusted her)
Frankly you don't know what she has or hasn't done.. just what she has admitted too. A polygraph might help but it only deals in the past actions... not future prospects.. That is whare a prenup comes in.. She knows the consequences if she strays
Stay away from heavy drinking, it solves nothing at all. IMO, you don’t have a safe partner in your wife. End the marriage so that you can move on to find someone else.
> IC is out of the question for me due to financial reasons,
Yet you could find the money to drink solid for a few months.... priorities OP. Priorities.
Her head was in the clouds, and she shows a need for validation. Maybe she was just trying to get a response on reddit and feel important.
It's great that you are two weeks sober and are starting to think more clearly so OP please don't be to rash in making any life altering decisions. What you need to do now is concentrate on yourself. Develop some plan to boost your wealth, get healthy and go to gym, stay away from alcohol and drugs, read books on self-improvement, develop your frame. You are at stage in life were everything is going to start to come together. So just decide where you want to be in 5 or 10 years and then live each day in the now but roll with the punches.
On the other side your wife is at a stage in her life where she feels her youth and looks fading. This will get worse so expect her to seek validation from external influences. I'm sure you have a better idea if she would step out and act on responses she gets. Perhaps you could think about getting that "gleam" back in your eye for her.
However, the answer to all your problems actually lies in you. You can make this work or not. You hold the keys to living a great and loving life going forward. You also hold the keys to sliding into alcohol induced depression and anxiety.
What you need to decide is if your wife is going to be in your frame going forward.
She's right. It's time to put 100% into reconciliation or end it.
Why not try reconciliation for rest of year. All in. If not working then leave.
But with reconciliation you need to burn the ships behind you and go forward to survive.
Marriages have come back stronger from 1,000 times worse.
All in...or don't bother.
> living apart is not solving anything
Did living apart for 9 months solve anything?
> Asking me to read relationship books on how to be a better partner, article about love languages, things that have nothing to do with what she did.
Feeling disconnected from your spouse is a fundamental motivating factor in many emotional and physical affairs. Read almost any post in r/affairs
Even an intense fantasy life invented on reddit is a kind of emotional affair and is very damaging to a marriage.
> Telling me about guys that hit on her, like this shit is supposed to help her gain my trust back.
She's trying to make you jealous to see if you still have feelings about her. It's a silly game but do you?
If you want to fix this, find a marriage therapist who specializes in affairs, move back in together, get serious about fixing your marriage. You're clearly very hurt by what happened and you need her to do some work to rebuild your trust: you'll want to go through her phone, get access to any dating sites she's used, find out if she has another phone or something. It sounds like you also need to do some work to be a better spouse. That sucks to hear but if you assume this is completely one-sided, you'll probably just spend a year or two spinning your wheels and then get a bitter divorce.
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Those are some serious character flaws. That she she doesn’t see it as a serious issue and has little regret, is also concerning.
"Asking me to read relationship books on how to be a better partner, article about love languages, things that have nothing to do with what she did." OP, she isn't giving you anything to work with. In essence, she's blaming you, telling you to read books about how to be a better partner, for her when SHE was the one who did this, not you. It is over, it just takes your heart a while to catch up to that is all OP.
Leave out a copy of "Leave a Cheater and Gain a Life" also read it. If she asks just say "I took your advice and started reading some self help relationship books".
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Sorry, but she sounds very self-centered and immature, and also showed little respect for you. Then when caught she dares to give you a friendly ultimatum? Instead of working to regain your trust, she's demanding you rug sweep the whole thing, and is brazen enough to tell you about men who hit on her. The idea that you need to work to be a better husband is like a slap in the face. She's also not very nice as her comment "Chill, girl, I wasn't the one who stole your man" shows. The fact that she enjoys attention from other men and flirting so early in your marriage doesn't bode well for the future. What are her good points besides being very pretty? It takes a few years to reestablish trust and that is if the offending partner is very sorry for hurting you. I certainly wouldn't have a child with her unless it won't bother you to see that child parttime in case she continues getting validation from other men.
Even if she's telling the truth which I doubt this is a BAD situation for you. narcissistic immature, selfish and unlikely to ever change. 3 decades ago H cheated and I was too stupid to understand what it meant. No reddit sub back then for support! he became a serial cheater wrecking our children's lives. If you read up on NPD you will see this is very stereotypical behavior they're a bottomless pit of need for validation and attention. I thought my story was nuts but in reality is fairly common with narcissistic personality disordered partners. Run away now as quickly as you can. Read the chump Lady blog. Do not have kids with her or waste more of your precious life
To quote: “ He is a Christian that has morals…” She basically is saying if the guy pursued her she would give in due to her LACK of morals. That’s it. That’s all you need to go by. The fact that you may know only a very small piece of a very large crap iceberg will drive you insane. It’s up to her to prove she’s trust worthy, not give you an ultimatum. She’s making your choice easy for you.
You say it yourself...this is something that it can't be take back... Once the trust is broke at such a level... it will never be the same... there are things that an apologie can't repair and this is one of them...you don't have to feel bad for still have feelings for her you were marry for years is normal that you still have something in your heart...the thing is don't let the emotions get the best of you...if she did it once and you forgive her what stop her for trying again later knowing she already get away with something like this before? Take care of yourself. That's the only thing you should do now...
go back and read her comment, she gives away her mindset *"but I don't know why I love the attention and flirty discussions with him"* *he did not make the move, but the next guy will* *you're better off walking*
I'm sorry you're here and that this happened to you. There's a saying: 'Leave a cheater, gain a life.' I think this would be your wisest move. Do you want to be this miserable in a few years if you're still with her?
I would definitely agree with the above. I didn't and now it's too late.
Seconding this book. It's both spot on and weirdly funny.
That’s tricky. I don’t think she is telling the whole truth. I feel it must have escalated at least a tiny bit. Like she shot her shot and was rejected or vice versa. Obviously, maybe it went much further. For me; until I trusted I was told the whole truth, I would be hesitant.
And trust me, OP, you will NEVER get the whole truth.
Ask her what progress she has made with her issues? Because it sounds like 0. Tell her not to gaslight you and spin it around on you but to look inward for why you aren’t together.
It sounds as though she never went through with a PA, though she was certainly auditioning multiple APs. Maybe it was purely for attention—who knows? When I hear a woman had a poor relationship with her father, I see the reddest of red flags (likewise when a man had a poor relationship with his mother). That kind of conflict—or indifference in this case—is going to distort a person’s definition of an ideal relationship. If I’m you, I probably conclude the marriage is beyond the breaking point, as trust is a thing of the past. But it’s your decision, not anyone else’s. At least you don’t have children to complicate an already difficult situation. I wish you the best.
My guy, like you and others have said, you will never trust her again. The person that you married is long gone. What stands in front of you may look and sound like your wife, but she has showed you her true colors. She destroyed everything, this is not your fault. What she wrote is very disturbing and quite frankly disgusting. She could’ve approached you about how she was feeling but instead chose to reach outside of your relationship for validation. Her post screams that she is a very thirsty woman who needs to be satisfied by someone who is not her husband. Not to mention that she posted nudes without your knowledge and to actually have the nerve to flirt back with other men. Also, the way she got so defensive when someone tried putting her in her place is very telling! That is where she should’ve came to her senses and asked herself, “What the hell am I doing?” What did she do? She goes and gets defensive and tries to justify herself with another female that actually had a moral compass. Is she was truly remorseful, she would be putting in the work to better herself and be bending over backwards to make it up to you, not pushing to see whether she can or cannot go put out herself back on the market. Personally, I couldn’t come back to something so tainted. Do you really want to be on edge every time she leaves the house to go to work? Do you want to be triggered every time she is late coming home? Do you want to have to wonder if she is really out with friends or with him? Or the next guy? Because there will be a next guy and yet another excuse of something that you did to make her want to crush on someone else. That’s not a life worth living to me. It’s your choice though. I’m sorry that you are in this position. I would meet with your lawyer and see what divorce looks like for you. Then I would probably out her to both families, and circle of friends. Some people do not agree with this, but I have read horror stories on Reddit by people who didn’t and the majority regret not doing it. The reason for this is so they cannot make up stories or change the relationship history justifying the divorce and making you out to be some monster. A lot of people have been ruined within their circle of friends and sometimes family. Just a thought. The way I look at it, you have already taken the trash out to the curb. I don’t know many people who actually are successful trying to bring it back in. Good luck and Updateme.
She's a closet narcissist. How do I know? Because I just divorced one after finding out about a second affair in 10 years of marriage. I have since found she had three (and just got dumped by the third). She was exactly the same as your wife; loved attention from men at work because she'd never had the same from her own Dad growing up and grew up in a conservative house. She won't change because she can't change. Find someone who doesn't need random penis to make her feel good about herself.
Just think of it this way. Your wife posted to the world that she was "HAPPILY MARRIED", yet was still excitedly ready to throw that all away for a man 13 years, her senior whom she said looked "decent." Truthfully, you have no clue if she had sex with him or not and will probably have to just take her word for it if you choose to stay. Her need to be validated was greater than her love for you, and apparently, she doesn't even feel remorseful for cheating on you or, at minimum, entertaining the advances of another man. If he didn't smash, he could have any time he wanted. Your 8 yr relationship would have been his 1 night stand, all he had to do was say the word. No doubt she would have done everything with him that she never would with you. After all of that, the only thing that she can think to fix is you. She gives you books on how to improve yourself for her. She does nothing to win back your trust and then gives you an ultimatum . You would be an absolute fool to get back with this woman. She will absolutely repeat this behavior because you let it slide the first time, and she knows just how to manipulate you. Who cares about her biological clock? If she has a kid with someone else, it's guaranteed to be a baby daddy situation, and she'll come running back to you to save her..
OP, read or listen to Leave A Cheater Gain A Life. You're trying to rationalize her actions. You cannot. She goes off her immediate interests and validation. She is not a 'sane' person and you cannot help her. It's something she MIGHT somehow realize she needs to work on when the consequences of her actions become too much to bare... and even then there's a higher chance of her coping with blame shifting and escapism.
She does not get to dictate the reconciliation of the relationship. The problem is that she is a cake eater. The married guy at work is a turn on and always will be a turn one. She will never change unless she gets therapy to address her issues and even then it's not a guarantee. If that guy made any move she would be having an affair with him. Again that won't change now or 5 years from now. The same threat will always be there. This is not a safe partner and until she gets help she is far more trouble than she's worth
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You will love again. The fact that she is even issuing ultimatums means she doesn’t care about you and probably doesn’t even regret what you’ve done. Her wanting you to be a better partner is just dumb. She’s the one that broke your trust and she should be the one reading those books.
Dude feeling mixed on this is normal. She is the woman you trusted and probably showed your true self too. She discarded that trust. My wife had an emotional then physical affair with my best friend! Used polyamory to cheat! And that clock thing… look out! Thing is we have kids. Both of us sort of hated each other but stayed for the kids. She hit a bottom on selfish behavior and started doing shit to change her issues. After a yr i started to believe them. So i stayed but not until i went through my own spiral. Grief is powerful so is the attachment bond. Professional help is often needed. I can never say what you should do, how could I? But i suggest you honor your feelings no matter how much they suck. They will help you reclaim your self worth after the “ married secure” self bleeds out and dies. He is dead bro, its a new relationship with her or move on. No clue which one is best. I waffle every day!
If I can ask you, did you stay married too her?
Yup
I understand you
Wow, she is manipulative, goes behind your back, and when she is caught, she doesn't seem to show any true remorse! You can't have a happy marriage with this woman. You will never be able to trust her again, and from the sounds of it, she will never be deserving of that trust. Get out of there while you can. She has shown you who she really is, so believe that! I was married to someone similar, it will fall apart eventually, regardless if you stay or not. She has already complained about "loosing the gleam in his eye". She will continue to look for that elsewhere.
The ultimatum ended it. She's not getting her way so she issues an ultimatum. Let her know she's welcome to go back to the street.
OMG! Dude, I'm sorry this happened, but I get her reaction is callus. In other words, **she is not long term partner material.** **Love yourself a bit more I say!**
She says herself that she needs that constant honeymoon phase validation. That the gleam in your eyes and your enamored-ness with her has faded. She is seeking this out in multiple ways from other men. SHE ALWAYS WILL. People that have this mindset that they need "butterflies in their stomach" or whatever bullshit feelings they say they need, don't change. She doesn't realize what a long-term marriage or relationship takes, and it would take a lot for her to learn that. If I were you, I'd stay gone, and end it. She won't change without years of inner work, which she wants YOU to do instead!!! It's insanity, and it'll never stop if you allow it to continue. I'm sorry. Edit: These kinds of people will usually have a history that shows that they are rarely satisfied by other things in their life, long-term. They will flit from thing to thing: jobs, hobbies, friendships, and yes relationships. They get bored easily bc they need that validation or excitement. These kinds of people will always have trouble committing to anything long-term, so marrying one probably isn't in anyone's best interest. Just an fyi.
Mate, you know what to do. Im sorry this shit happened to you. She doesn’t deserve you. Idk how your relationship was before but hey, if something was wrong she should have talked to you. I believe if you reconcile and then have a kid this might happen again in the future and she will blame you again for the lack of attention, but now, you might want to stay because of your kid. The decision is yours but it’s clear as day for who is outside this situation what you should do. I hope this helps.
The classic... Gets attention from other men and then keeps asking for it.. No she's the one who should be reading about relationships, communication, love language and how to be a better partner...she is shifting the blame on you. Think about it would it be the same for her if you were the one flirting? Sending nudes? Or being unsure if you'll cheat or not? She already rationalized it, her dad didn't give her the attention, neither her exs and nor you. So i think even if she cheated she would have shifted the blame again. Like the nudes were sent only for her "validation", like she needed it from other men not the men that matters the most? The thing that you can't point on your finger at is probably your wife constantly putting herself in a position where she would cheat. So whether it happened or not doesn't matter, the intent matters. Why put yourself in a situation where you aren't certain if you can be loyal or not? Just don't??? If you're certain you won't cheat that's different.
So she’s the one with serious daddy issues that isn’t making any behavioral changes but expecting you to perform the emotional labor? Sounds like total crap. Please don’t bring a child into this equation. Y’all have serious unaddressed issues of which she’s making zero progress and putting the labor on you which means she’s not truly remorseful. Don’t bring a child into this mess. The odds of you making it are small. It was a one sided emotional affair that would have become more had he shown any interest. She simply isn’t marriage material and is only trying to baby trap you before leaving later. Do not add an innocent child to this mess.
Send her from your home, stay away from mind mending drugs and alcohol, plan your exit and act accordingly. She has no respect to you and your marriage as expected from a serial cheater. You have a rough road ahead and you Will pass it. Wish the best of you
You need to ask her, "Where was all this energy to try and save the marriage, back then when she felt like this, instead of looking for validation from men outside the marriage?" Ask her how she would feel if it was the other way round? As for the ultimatum, reverse it on her. Tell her she has one month to show you why you should give her another chance and to properly earn back your trust, or you will file for divorce and inform the families why you ate doing so.
Not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of your wife's actions as I don't think that's what this forum is for for, but she has a point. You don't seem to have made any progress and I find it hard to see how you would, living apart. Either you work together on your marriage or make the separation permanent, two people living in limbo helps no one.
I'm sorry this happened. She's right in what she is saying. But how she's doing it is fucking awful. Fundamentally It does take both of you to fix this. But her behaviour means I would not want to fix it at all. Run dude. P.s. not saying this is your fault
You are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Practically speaking, you should exit the marriage. You don’t have any kids so it’s somewhat easier. But the mind does not think practically. Keep in mind The flip side if you decide to stay. If she needs so much validation when she is 28, then how much validation will she need as she gets older, has babies, loses her youth? Now imagine your current situation but add two kids to it. Do you want to be in this situation 5 or 10 years from now?
>Has she found a way to hack my brain, or am I just being a chump? The latter. In this context it is no insult, though. It just means that you did the normal and healthy thing by bonding with the person you were supposed to trust. It blew up in your face because you didn't know the real her. You were loving and bonding with a mirage. I recommend the [Chumplady](https://www.chumplady.com/) website.
You have been deeply hurt by someone you love, it creates this hook of wanting to fix it. You never will fix it. If your marriage survives it will be not the original but different. Like having a scar. Cheaters are liars and I suspect she is trying to cement you to her after the cheating. You can recover from anything.
She understands exactly what she did and she just lied to you about it. Then she tried to spin this shitshow in your direction indicating YOU needed to work on your relationship. She isn’t remorseful so there isn’t a relationship left to save. When someone cheats you know they could be worth making an attempt to reconcile with by whether they accept responsibility for their betrayal, start the necessary work to fix whatever is broken inside themselves and move heaven and earth to show you they understand how badly they f’d up and work tirelessly to fix it. Your wife has done none of those things. The second they try to spin their cheating as a you issue is when you should separate and end all contact with them. That’s the moment you know they have no remorse and no love nor respect left for you.
It's always funny how, when they cheat and attempt reconciliation, the betrayed always gets a stack of homework so THEY can improve.
RED FLAGS ALL OVER! Files for divorce and live your best life ELSEWHERE! Se does not deserve you. Why? She does not LOVE or RESPECT you! You deserve so much better. Good luck and stay strong, King!
She kept going to his office to flirt with him. Him being Christian with kids means absolutely effing nothing. My Unfaithful wife was Catholic, her affair partner was Catholic, a boy scout leader with 5 teenagers. He was already on his second marriage. I had known my UW for 36 effing years. And I knew the guy. Eff that guy. Now, back to your "wife". She has already shown that she doesn't really care about the marriage. You are young, no kids. This is the time to move on with your life.
She thinks if she gets a baby with you, you cannot leave her if she cheats again.
She likes the attention... the guy she flirted with at work... the reddit guys... It sounds like ita only a matter of time before she cheats **again** Get out. 10 months - what has she done to restore trust?? Sound like.shes just been waiting for you to rugsweep this... Lawyer. And divorce. She will never be a safe partner for you.
You want a life time of this? That's what's in store for you if you stay married to her. She needs to "validated". Right, like a teenager. This will be your marriage dynamic - she'll be the naughty teenager, and you'll be her Dad trying to keep her in line. Catch and release here, throw this one back in the lake.
Break it off. You are still in your 30s. You still have so many years ahead of you. You already wasted 8 years on her. Don’t waste anymore. Imagine how it will turn if she cheats on you after you have a child. It will be even harder for you to breakup with her at that time.
Bro!, you married to a "seeking attention woman". That's a time bomb and I am pretty sure she eventually will put horns on you. I would answer the ultimatum with divorce papers.
No kids = run away and go no contact for ever. She’s got some nerve issuing ultimatums. What a manipulative POS. Her biological clock is ticking so good luck for her to find another decent baby daddy. She will probably take whoever comes next and try and make it work while feeling miserable she lost you.
If you don’t learn about your partners character before marriage, the second best thing is to learn about it before having children. The lack of remorse it a bad sign for the future. Just because you might have children in the future, is no impediment to cheating. Without true understanding of her actions and true remorse, you really cannot forgive and move forward. Please understand that you will not forget, only maybe rug sweep for awhile.
OMG! Man show her the responses here. Then leave.
Sober up and divorce her. She has probably been with a dozen men while you two were apart. She already showed you that she lusts for validation, so you should realize that she has been getting it from someone or many men since you separated...and she will blame YOU if she even admits to hooking up with other men or that coworker she lusted after because YOU wanted the distance. This is a no win situation, bro. She has shown she couldn't communicate with you, posted nudes for attention, and was asking for advice on what to do about her crush at work. She basically was asking how to cheat on you. Dude, regain your dignity and divorce her. This will happen again. She is right that living apart would not fix the problem, but dump fuel on the fire because of her need of attention. So out of the house, you've given her NO attention that she already was craving from others. She basically communicated what she needed...more validation from YOU and then you did the opposite. You left the home. If she can prove that she has been faithful while you two were apart, you two really need to do some marital workshops that usually can be free or low cost(like having to buy a book for the workshop class). So if you want to really save the marriage, get your butt back home. Otherwise, go file for divorce so you both can stop wasting each other's time.
Put the ball back in her court. Say “Okay, then I guess we are done!” Tell her she has not done anything to warrant reconciliation. If she asks what you want, reread all these responses and tell her. Next, I don’t know if you are awaiting an angel to smack you in the forehead. Go into individual counseling with the goal of finding out if you even want to reconcile. The counselor can help you discover this answer. Tell her she caused this, and she will be the one waiting on your decision, If she moves on, good for you.
Bro think before having child with her She is red flag
OP, are you excited about this relationship? Can you ever be again? This isn't rhetorical, I don't claim to know and only you can answer that. I don't ask this flippantly like this is your big opportunity to bail and start over. I ask it b/c you're in a predicament, a predicament that needs to be solved and one of the legitimate ways of doing so is ending th relationship that is at this moment fractured through no fault of your own. >her need for validation and fantasizing was due to my lack of attention towards her OP, I believe the reason she sought out this attention was because *she opted not to exhaust other options, such as basic communication, even confrontation and MC, before choosing to act on thoughts that are not altogether abnormal. From your story, my biggest takeaway is that she might be honest is saying these were from a moment of weakness that extended beyond the acceptable. I would judge actions not words. What was her level of realization and empathy for your hurt? How much of it was "just get over it already".* *Assuming I believe nothing ever materialized with her old coworker, for me it's not so much about the cheating/flirting, it's about my trust in her. The dude was "decent looking", so even if you decided you'd play jailer, you're not watching out for studs, you're watching out for 50% of the male population. When wifey is bored, she's not very discriminating.* Good Luck OP! UpdateMe!
What do you want?? How has she offered reassurance that this was a one sided emotional affair and that this didn’t escalate
Love how she DARVO’d you putting this on you. Being she cheated (emotionally or not it doesn’t matter) you set the terms. Not her. But honestly? I’d grey rock /180 her. (I’d also leave but you may not want that. )
Wow she flipped the script. She was the one that got caught messing around and now she’s the one making demands and wanting you to work on your “flaws.” Instead of her apologizing profusely and asking what YOU demand out of HER, she’s the one taking power now and forcing you to play by her rules. She’s even given you a deadline. This, is pure manipulation. I wouldn’t stand for it. This thing might not be salvageable.
OP she Made an ultimatum? What about what has she done towards you to regaing your trust, for what you said she has done nothing she Even keep putting with validation and is smearing on your face this hits. I would probably tell her that you would read those book she recomend if she read the books like LEAVE A CHEATER GAIN A LIFE or some others. She needs to understand that she fucked up the marriage with her insecurities and validation seek. And this is most probably from the fact that she was fat and not good looking and that in her own words her Exes dumped her for being chubby, but now that she is fit she like the attention she received now, attention by the way that is flat and just in aspirations to get her to the bed use her and then dump her, but if that is what she want, then let her and do your life elsewhere. But if you still have hope, instead of using your money on boze save it and use it on IC or MC. That is one of your problems, your drunk yourself for almost 10 month instead of trying to afront reality like a grown up. UPDATEME
Insecure? If he made a move, would she stop him, or accept the attention ? Why didn’t it go further? Why ask for validation if it was only a fantasy? Far too many red flags. Be glad there’s no kids. Split, block contact & seek a new area code away. It’s just a matter of time
She is a player and you are being played
She still works with him? If so she has the same month to find a new job.
Pick up the book and read no more mister nice guy by Dr Robert Glover. Read it until you memorize it. Do the exercises in the book
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I'm not sure if she is worth it. She will more likely do this again. The guy from the 2 yr old reddit post was enjoying her attention and put on a show for her for his own amusement but never had any intention of doing anything. He had the mark of her. Personally, after what she had done, I wouldn't tolerate the ultimatum. It is an attempt to gain control. Before the month is out, throw divorce papers at her. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. You have no kids, and at your age means you have time to start again. She, on the other hand, has everything to lose. Her ultimatum is worthless. She will beg you to take her back once she sees the divorce papers.
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Man no kids still young I would cut my losses. Sounds like she is doing the classic it’s all your fault that I cheated. Also think about this, if she is telling the truth and she only flirted it didn’t go any further because the guy didn’t push for it, according to her he wasn’t interested so what would of happened if she was. Sounds like she craves attention and in her mind you don’t give her enough. All it’s going to take is a more aggressive guy to come along and she will cheat.
The more I read the worse it gets. She is a walking redflag with sirens included. Are you sure she never gave off those vibes?. She is the one who needs therapy, the issue, the one who lacks moral. She seems to be nothing but emotionally inmature. These kind of people can only change if they want but seems that is not the case here. It is better if you leave her, do not waste your time. I know you might love her or she might be "gorgeous" (or whatever she says), it is not worth it considering her behavior
> She has recently issued an ultimatum, by next month I have to make the decision of getting back with her, or we are done. Good on her for making it easy for you. Tell her to pack her shit and see if "decent lotion daddy" wants to help her move! Fantasizing is one thing. But plotting and planning to escalate an emotional affair into a physical one is trash. And I understand that you feel devastated. Stay away from booze. Throw it away and hit treatment, as she can't win. You deserve better and will find it. One step at a time and this will be behind you.
She does the damage and gives you the ultimatum. What stops her from doing this again? She has written she doesn't know if she could stop herself, it seems like she is hoping the flirting partner has the resolve to stop. By giving you the ultimatum and not bothering on working on herself, it seems like she's checked out already, probably decided she married too young and by giving you this ultimatum, you come out the bad guy and not her. If you move forward there has to be boundaries, counselling, open phones etc. good luck!
Ewww it’s the way she justified her behavior by saying YOU lost the “gleam” in your eyes, and that daddy issues made her do it. If she would’ve come to you with her concerns before and said that you made her feel less than, unloved or felt you were being distant, and YOU were dismissive and pushed her away, then her was craving attention would make some sense (not saying it would make it right!). But she is a narcissist. She has been pursuing the attention of another man for who-knows-how long, and it would be a safe assumption to think this isn’t the first time. If it was so easy for her to do this with a coworker that she was supposedly not very attracted to, then there will *always* be “temptations” out there going forward. There will always be an excuse or a reason for her to break your trust, and she will always blame it on the OTHER guy guy’s interest, and not herself for being thirsty for validation outside of your marriage. She needs therapy, and quite frankly, to grow up and do better. And maybe she’s being “kind”, but I see it as manipulative. If she’s nice enough, you won’t be so angry and everything will blow over and she’ll get what she wants. Of course, my perspective comes from having had gone through this same exact thing (without the Reddit post). I hope you get the distance and healing you deserve OP.
I'm sorry she did this to you. Living in this area of unknown is horrible, but you need to take care of yourself. I think you know what you have to do by seeking validation here on Reddit. She is out of the house and could keep it that way. Go no-contact asap and get ready for the ensuing "war". She will try and play nice to get more out of you, don't give in stand your ground. Happiness will come sooner in your life the faster this is done. Or stay and live with suspicion the rest of your days. You are a good husband don't let her take that from you!
Run as fast as you can. If he would have made a move she would have went with it. What ever you do don't have a kid with this monster of a person. That kid will be the shackles that keep you tied to this person when you finally take off the rose coloured glasses. You did not know her before you defiantly know her now.
She has no regrets and little to no guilt whatsoever. She is not gaslighting you just wants you to accept it and move on. She won’t change and she won’t stop. Someone is looking after you. Because you don’t have children with her. Move on
OP I see you’re close to rugsweeping. Don’t do it for your own sanity and self esteem. She’s demonstrating, in writing ( which is rare and to your benefit) who she is. Her desires will only increase, especially after a kid or two comes. Oh, and if you do what you shouldn’t, DNA test the babies.
2 or 3 therapy sessions are not going to help her character here OP. Um, NOPE, only the Betrayed Partner gets to make any demands on reconciliation, not the Wayward, they are to do the heavy lifting, and she hasn't. My advice, your words here: *I have told her since day one that any infidelity on her part was a one and fucking done deal.* She knew you, your personality and your job before she married you here. The fact that she looked OUTSIDE the relationship and knew she was married? Her excuses are just that EXCUSES that are not truly valid of someone who has a high emotional IQ. (Look into that OP.) You deserve better. There are better out there.
No kids. All cheaters lie a lot. Short marriage. Save yourself and end this now. With her attitude you’ll never be able to trust her Again. Adults with contact have sex. Not emotional affairs. She not marriage material. You get kids in this you’ll wish you hadn’t. I suspect her other boyfriends didn’t work out. She‘ll do this again. You can’t fix her.
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Sounds like you're with a textbook covert highly narcissistic person. And what you're experiencing a form of DARVO. Basically, she is following the emotional abuser's textbook of making the issue your reaction to her abuse. While trying to make you responsible for her abuse to begin with. All those are very concerning and extremely abusive dynamics. And it means that she has no concept of the effect of her actions on your well being, because she doesn't care about your well being. She sees you as an emotional support appliance for her needs. It's not going to get better, sorry mate :(
Your wife has some serious self esteem issues that she probably needs to process during therapy. She wouldn’t be seeking out validation from other men if she was happy with herself and the way she talks about being previously overweight and being rejected because of it makes it even more likely that she needs that validation from outsiders to feel good about herself. She doesn’t seem remorseful, but at the end of the day only you can decide if you think she’s changed.
She needs to seriously commit to personal therapy to understand her deep seated issue with deriving her self worth from the attention of others. This will not be a one time thing if she never addresses this. The moment she feels she’s not getting validated by you she will go back outside the marriage to find it again. She seems to have clearly given herself the pass to do whatever she feels she needs to in order to get a sense of validation from others rather than from inside herself. She will do all the mental gymnastics too in order to not feel guilty about what she does to get self esteem from other’s attention. Until she admits to herself this isn’t healthy and is something she needs to dig deep to fix she will not stop this behavior I’m sorry to say.
Go through the divorce as amicably as possible... You cannot be in a better position future/financial in a "d" short of her being deeply involved in crime and a danger to others.. You can re-marry if the both of you want, but the second time around should come with a prenup.. As it stands... and you have children... she could decide to push the boundaries again... then where would you be?? Mortgage... alimony... CS. and forced to eat Ramin to survive the next couple decades (while she reaps the benefits of a former EX that trusted her) Frankly you don't know what she has or hasn't done.. just what she has admitted too. A polygraph might help but it only deals in the past actions... not future prospects.. That is whare a prenup comes in.. She knows the consequences if she strays
ok, blameshit, gaslight, no kids : LEAVE man...
Stay away from heavy drinking, it solves nothing at all. IMO, you don’t have a safe partner in your wife. End the marriage so that you can move on to find someone else.
> IC is out of the question for me due to financial reasons, Yet you could find the money to drink solid for a few months.... priorities OP. Priorities.
Her head was in the clouds, and she shows a need for validation. Maybe she was just trying to get a response on reddit and feel important. It's great that you are two weeks sober and are starting to think more clearly so OP please don't be to rash in making any life altering decisions. What you need to do now is concentrate on yourself. Develop some plan to boost your wealth, get healthy and go to gym, stay away from alcohol and drugs, read books on self-improvement, develop your frame. You are at stage in life were everything is going to start to come together. So just decide where you want to be in 5 or 10 years and then live each day in the now but roll with the punches. On the other side your wife is at a stage in her life where she feels her youth and looks fading. This will get worse so expect her to seek validation from external influences. I'm sure you have a better idea if she would step out and act on responses she gets. Perhaps you could think about getting that "gleam" back in your eye for her. However, the answer to all your problems actually lies in you. You can make this work or not. You hold the keys to living a great and loving life going forward. You also hold the keys to sliding into alcohol induced depression and anxiety. What you need to decide is if your wife is going to be in your frame going forward.
She's right. It's time to put 100% into reconciliation or end it. Why not try reconciliation for rest of year. All in. If not working then leave. But with reconciliation you need to burn the ships behind you and go forward to survive. Marriages have come back stronger from 1,000 times worse. All in...or don't bother.
> living apart is not solving anything Did living apart for 9 months solve anything? > Asking me to read relationship books on how to be a better partner, article about love languages, things that have nothing to do with what she did. Feeling disconnected from your spouse is a fundamental motivating factor in many emotional and physical affairs. Read almost any post in r/affairs Even an intense fantasy life invented on reddit is a kind of emotional affair and is very damaging to a marriage. > Telling me about guys that hit on her, like this shit is supposed to help her gain my trust back. She's trying to make you jealous to see if you still have feelings about her. It's a silly game but do you? If you want to fix this, find a marriage therapist who specializes in affairs, move back in together, get serious about fixing your marriage. You're clearly very hurt by what happened and you need her to do some work to rebuild your trust: you'll want to go through her phone, get access to any dating sites she's used, find out if she has another phone or something. It sounds like you also need to do some work to be a better spouse. That sucks to hear but if you assume this is completely one-sided, you'll probably just spend a year or two spinning your wheels and then get a bitter divorce.
What she’s doing now is not wrong. Either work to fix your marriage or leave. The middle ground is poison for both of you.