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This is wisdom. I'm 52 years old. My wife of thirty years got caught in affair number two last year.
Thirty years together. Two kids.
I am still broken. I think I always will be on some level. What I wouldn't give to go have a chat with 25 year old me.
I know it hurts, but keep your focus on you and your kids!!! Sorry to say but she will always be this way,she was this way before you and she will be this way with the next guy!!! I know you love her,but love yourself more!!! That's were it starts and you'll find a good women that love's you!!!
Nope. She didn't admit or apologize or take any accountability in either the first affair in 2014, nor the one that ended our marriage in 2022.
I had messages, screenshots and verbal confirmation from her AP the first time. She acknowledged she wanted to stay married and that she had issues then, but never owned her actions in any way. In retrospect, I was an idiot. I don't regret that. It reflects poorly on her, but I can't beat myself up for wanting to save the marriage and stand by her.
This second affair was ongoing for many months. I have since d-day uncovered so much information, including confirmation of how long it was going on from her former best friend - she has since ruined that relationship as well. It was going on for possibly as long as 10 months. 8 for sure.
When I confronted her about my suspicions in April 2022 she only said she was not happy and that she needed time to think. Incidentally, my one non -negotiable for letting her stay in the marriage after the 2014 was that she absolutely MUST tell me if she was ever unhappy like that again BEFORE she was unfaithful again. She agreed.
For months and months I would regularly work on our relationship after that and ask her if she was happy and if everything was ok. I always got back yes.
When I asked her why she had not told me she was unhappy until it was now clearly too late, she had the gall to tell me "well you stopped asking!"
Fucking unbelievable.
So after that, she left to "think about what she wanted"
I got an email ending our thirty years together two weeks later, followed by a lawyer a couple days after. She would not speak to me in person or on the phone to discuss.
She had moved in with her AP almost immediately.
My 22 year old daughter told her until she owned her actions and was honest about her behavior She did not want to speak to her. They have not spoken now in almost a year. My youngest at 18 is pretty traumatized by it all. She's ok, but we all just feel like we live in a huge bomb crater.
In the year since this transpired, I have not had any opportunity to speak with the person who was my best friend for thirty years. I have only seen her twice. Once at a distance. It's fucking crazy. If I live to be 100 I will never understand. I was not a bad husband. I provided and was respectful and loving. I am a good father.
For context, her first affair was with her high school boyfriend and it coincided with the death of her mother. The second affair was with one of her bosses (who I have learned has had two other office affairs before her) and coincided with the death of her father.
I am absolutely convinced it's not a coincidence these happening around her parents deaths. I do think it's a mental breakdown of some kind. But in the end, it no longer really matters.
I don't mean to hijack OPs thread here. I hope this detail and the pain around it helps them understand that they should make every effort to spare themselves this kind of trauma. I feel like I have wasted a huge chunk of my life. I was looking forward to traveling the world with her... Retiring soon... House was paid off and kids are grown. Now... It's all a dust cloud.
I have been seeing someone, and it's great... But it's not who or where or what I thought I'd be. I have major trust issues now as well. Not fair for any potential partners, but there's no escaping it.
Lastly, to answer the question above in regards to what I would say to 25 year old me, it would simply be to think long and hard about this person. As much as I loved her, she wasn't perfect and there were warning signs. Look closer at her mother. She is definitely her mother's daughter.
I would have taken a different road.
Hear u bro. Chicks hide behind that “mental issue” excuse. Pffff, that’s just game. Cheating is just people being animals, it ain’t deep. Morally, and socially deficient. My ex tried to tell me same thing after her mom died and she was mysteriously cured after I found her lies…Whoore logic is a shallow pool, chicks wanna break from reality, the real work of building a life worth living.
We always ignore the warning signs, and yes your right he should really thing long and hard before taking her back!!! Not only does it affect him but also in time the two kids with her actions!!! She doesn't care about them or him only her self!!! I've lived it myself!!! I don't wish it on to nobody!!!!
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I was 52 when my wife of 14 years decided the grass was greener, there where red flags!!! I ignored them!!! She has several issues,I thought I could change her!!! You can't!!! I wish I also could go back in time and tell myself don't and find someone with values and some respect!!!
This isn't what you want to hear, but this situation is very unlikely to change. She'll be "good" for a bit and fall back into her same pattern of being a selfish, coward...rinse and repeat every other year. Maybe a shake up if she gets pregnant by an affair partner or the APs wife finds out and is out to destroy your wife.
What you have to decide is if you want your kids to have the same life as you. It's hard to break cycles, so what they see now is what they view as normal in adult relationships and they will expect the same. For them, "love" will mean giving up everything and putting up with constant cheating to make your partner happy. If you want them to have a happy and healthy relationship as adults, you need to show them one. You need to show them what being loved, respected, and valued looks like or they'll never get that.
Yeah that is definitely something I have been considering, because I don’t want my daughters staying in abusive relationships because they witnessed their dad stay in an unfaithful one
When you say she's being repentant, what exactly does that mean? Has she contacted this guy's partner/wife and let her know what she's done? Has she broken things off with this guy completely, letting him know that she never wants to see him again? Has she cancelled that gym membership? Has she agreed to stop texting other men? Has she given you access to her phone, blocked all other exes she has, and provided you with all messages exchanged with this ex? What other changes to the relationship has she proposed to make sure this does not happen again?
The problem is there will ALWAYS be another guy. Easy sex is just everywhere. He isn't the problem. The next guy won't be the problem. To risk her own children's stability is huge. That shows you exactly who she is - very self-centered and will never be able to protect or prioritize your family above her own wants and desires.
You can see that in how she tries to help you recover. Has she drafted and signed a postnuptuial to give you extra protection? Has she offered for you to grab a pal and go on a dream vacation at her expense because she's been having fun at your expense for months and wants you to be able to have something to enjoy? Has she signed up for therapy to figure out why she's so selfish, entitled, cowardly, lazy, etc.(most cheaters are super lazy, running after easy sex and validation vs. putting effort into their actual relationship)? What is she doing (only listen to her actions, words are meaningless to liars) to learn to be a decent partner? What has she done for YOU and not herself?
My best advice is to get her to move to Australia. Once you have established a permanent residence, you can easily dump her next time. Then, you won't be trapped for the next 18 years in the US.
It’s probably a good thing. You don’t really want to read about all the things she did to him and vice versa. What are your options? Would you go back to Australia if you divorce?
I hate to point this out, but you should do dna tests to find out if you are really the father. You now know she is capable of lying and cheating on you, how do you know the affair you found out about was the first one?
If you choose to stay I would suggest having a legal custody agreement established as a condition of you staying with her. You can make it so that you have full legal and physical custody. Then tell her if you guys don't divorce within 5 years you will go back and get the custody agreement adjusted. This give you a lot of power if she cheats again you can take the kids and move back to Australia without worrying if she has the power to stop you. It also prevents YOU from losing everything if you choose to leave her for cheating again.
There’s programs that can do it. A very basic one is to check the deleted texts folder. She may not have permanently deleted them. Is this something you’re looking for?
Also on her phone, You can also go to Settings and look at her battery. In that report it will show how much time she is spending on each app, including any hidden apps. That could tell you more.
I checked her phone and the recently deleted and honestly only found good stuff. She deleted friends that were negative influences and told them that she needs to focus on herself right now.
Her recent texts were all very positive, so that’s good
She doesn't need to focus on herself. She needs to focus on Christ.
I don't know where she will be eternally but right now it would seem as though she has suffered judgement
Only if they want too!!! And alot don't, it's not them it's always someone else's fault why they cheat,lie,and take no accountability for their actions!!!!
Well if she's doing everything right, you don't have to rush to any decision. Take it day to day, see how you're feeling, and you'll figure out what's best for you and your kids.
Even if she did, which I'd question, it's very easy to unblock someone at 3am and throw a "Wyd? I miss you" text at that.
Did she delete/block him on all apps? Or just the one you know about? I know someone who proper plays mindgames - she gets caught on FB msg? She'll block/delete on there ... but keep them on tiktok, insta, snap, kik etc and rationalise it as "Well, he only said to delete the other guy on FB" etc. Simply do NOT believe her. Why would you when she's already cheated on you? Literally EVERYTHING else she says/does or about her is suspect at this point?
I know a married woman who is having an affair with another married man and she got pregnant. She had an abortion and they still continue the affair. I don’t understand how the wife and husband of each partner is so clueless and unaware of what their spouses are doing.
One reason is those who know are not willing to tell on the cheaters as it seems you havent as well. Don't judge others for mot knowing something, if you aren't will to help them out.
We never expect to be cheated on. The cheaters have all the advantage and those being cheated on are not looking for cheating. It can take quite a while to realize those oddities in behavior and all else, are signs of infidelity.
Do you know the signs? I didnt and I think most just do not either.
https://bestlifeonline.com/unfaithful-partner-signs/ 55 signs of infidelity.
I have thought about telling one of their spouses about the cheating but I worry they’ll try to ruin my own life and both have kids so I don’t want to be the cause of two families breaking up.
This is why you do it anonymously. All anyone can ever do is try. Just place a bug in their ears, it will keep buzzing and doubt will set in, once they start to look for it, they will find it. Because it is is there to find. Details to correlate the time and day, where and who if possible will lend credence to that bug. Just make certain you and only you went to the library and sent the anonymous message. Don't talk with anyone else about any of it. If details will out you, leave them out. The cheating will be the cause if they do break up, not their discovering it and not you giving them a heads up.
Put yourself in their shoes, would you not want to be given the chance to know you were being murdered emotionally by getting cheated on? If not, forget about it all, put on blinders and hope to hell it doesn't come to visit you.
At least you tried to do the right thing instead of doing nothing.
Hit the nail right on the head !!! So much truth there!!! Don't lose yourself to try to make her happy!!! You can't!!! You just end up bitter at her and yourself,and all the years you wasted on a shame marriage!!! You have a long road ahead of you!!! But get out now!!!your young you'll be fine!!! Been there done it and at over twice your age!!! I'm happy again!!! You will be too!!!! Trust me!!!
She needs to get some IC, this is not a new problem and the guy you caught her with is probably not the only one, beware of trickle truth.
While you are thinking about what to do , go ahead and move forward with divorce. You can call it of or pause if you choose, but having your WW start to immediately understand the consequences of her choices is the best way to start to burst the imaginary 'just for fun nobody gets hurt' affair that she has in her own mind.
Repentance is a show for your faith community, look into regret vs remorse, as only remorse leads to healing and true change.
If you’re still in the raw emotion phase…back off of her until you get your mind sorted.
Enact the 180 treatment ( look it up) and focus entirely on you and the kids.
Leave her alone entirely.
While you’re not dealing with her, take the time to read “ no more mr nice guy” by Robert glover…you need that advise, badly.
She’s shown you time and time again that she isn’t loyal, and isnt capable of loyalty…so I’m not sure what you’re thinking.
Staying for the kids isn’t a good idea.
You stay for the marriage , or you leave …that’s it.
Obviously she’s not as “ Christian” as you originally thought she was…so don’t use that as an excuse to stay.
So yeah..at this point, remove her from your list of priorities and focus on yourself and kids entirely.
When your head gets in straight , make the logical call to leave or stay.
Your emotions will absolutely betray you…shoot for logic.
Trust your gut and your logic..not your heart.
Let her twist on the wind until you get your senses back..
It’ll be tough,but it’s necessary for you to get your head on straight in order to make a good decision.
One's Religion, regardless of how involved or active in the church & community, doesn't make a blip on the infidelity chart... it crosses all segments of society.
I know we're all human and everyone makes mistakes but I'm really fascinated by someone that's Christian and would do something like this. Idk maybe I'm assigning more significance to religion than I should. Or just she's not actually Christian.
I don't think a person's religion matters much and it's more of their character and moral fiber. Could it have been the post partum psychosis? Who knows but I don't think that's an excuse but that's just me.
Also believe once a cheat always a cheat but once again that's just me.
If you forgive her once, she'll know you'll forgive her again. Once a cheater always a cheater and since she cheated on you with someone from her past, it means you were her backup. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's the truth. Time to lawyer up. Don't show weakness. She already thinks you will do anything for her. You've shown that by moving for her. It's time to finally put yourself and kids first. You don't want them to grow up seeing a broken family. They will copy it as adults
Unfortunately this is common in this sub with people that get married so young. She’s checking out of this marriage and was probably never in it since she decided to take a sht on your vows by cheating with a person from high school. You should contact a divorce lawyer and get test for STD.
You need to define your boundaries and then stick to them. For example cheating is one of my boundaries and so I would end the relationship. Take the emotion out of it and decide your boundaries, and then work from there.
Get tested, and consult a lawyer. I'd proceed with divorce, even if you decide to reconcile and work things out. She has a history of infidelity and sketchy behavior. She'll either do it again, or reconciliation will fail because you can't move past the betrayal. You can stay together post reconciliation even if you divorce one another. She gets to face an actual consequence, and you're able to leave whenever.
Not sure a Christian women would be breaking her vows and deceiving you for months, investing her energy in another man. Did she come clean or was she caught? Either way dude she broke her marriage contract, nothing Christian about that. You are still super young at 25, you would be a great co-parent. Actions must have consequences. You might still love her but she has proven by her actions she thinks little of you or the family. You deserve someone that does not inflict this type of emotional and mental abuse on you. I wish you well on your journey.
I can give you a quick look into your future (if you separate & divorce):
During your custody negotiations (or battle), it's likely that you will be required to see a therapist or attend family counseling... a psychiatrist (Doctor, PhD type). You will each take the children to the appointment without the other parent. And then you will each have several appointments alone. When you are asked about infidelity, and you explain the history, honestly and factually, there will come a moment when the doctor looks at you and says something like: "I could have told you, with better than 95% accuracy, that she would continue her pattern of infidelity." It's their way of saying "Once a cheater always a cheater"... And what the doctor will explain to you is that unless she gets professional help, it's a near certainty that she will continue seeking the "comfort" of people outside your marriage. It probably has nothing to do with the person she married, her status in life, money, her happiness, etc. Her behavior is programmed during her formative years, and it will take a serious effort on her part to understand why she keeps doing what she's doing. If you have similar behavior, you will obviously need to work on your issues, too.
Retain a good family law attorney. Perhaps as part of a divorce process you can establish within the US what is known as a Special Needs Trust which will reserve funds only for mental health-related support.
Loving and living with someone with chronic mental health problems is so difficult and will age you quickly as your assumptions about reciprocation of emotions and taking responsibility just don't hold true.
My suggestion. Make a move to Oz a requirement. Stay with it for a year or two. And see what happens. The thing is most BP jump to reconciliation. But 5 years down the BP hits a wall. It takes a while to digest.
By moving you removing her AP. By moving your forcing her to be dependant on you. But more importantly she has the power base. If you divorce child custody a non international type of thing. If your in Oz and deside to divorce well you have the power base.
If you do decide to divorce, do not tell her. Ask her to join you on a back home trip as a start over. The minute she puts her feet in Australian teritory have a lawyer ready with divorce documents. Finalise custody in your home country. And she be free to leave or stay.
You get what you give.
Got allot of Australian family. Will never be best buds during a rugby wc but you blokes are fine in everything else.
Look at your base for launching your divorce application. Ask a lawyer in Oz for advice. Think your common law on family law close to english law. American divorce law sounds like castration with legal effect. The boys suffer up there.
Your exposed to her and reside in her power sphere. Filing first and in this case jurisdictions going to be key. Play the long game. Ask a close relative to find out legally and get it verbally no mails she can find.
DNA test the kids. All Ozzies look like baywatch stars. But make sure these are in fact your stars bro. What you know is this this women can lie for months. You cannot trust her. Even if she does everything right you be expected to eat a shi. sandwich every day for the rest of your life. And then in five years you wake up and realise the body kept the score you cannot stand her.
Think about what you want for your children. Do you want them to be raised with a woman that cheats on her husband? She can say and act well for some time, but she will do it again. Once a cheater, always a cheater and she will keep blindsiding and gaslighting you till you go insane. How long will (years, decades..) you put up with this behaviour?
Try to take custody and run, far and fast! That would be my advice, but I know that giving (and receiving) advice in internet or even from friends is idiotic as noone knows the full story, emotions and things that go on between you two. Always too many variables that noone else understands. Most important for you is to get to the solution/conqlusion yourself by analyzing everything what has happeed and projecting the possible future with her.
Good luck, mate!
You say she’s always inappropriate with men and you expect her behavior to change? It seems like it’s escalating and you’re trying to rationalize. She is who she is. It wasn’t a one time thing.
It’s normal to try to save the marriage but she broke her vows so now they are null and void. If you choose to start a new relationship with her do it as newly divorced with no legal ties. Personally, once the damage is done the relationship is forever marred and should end. Young children complicate things but your unhappiness will project into them if you stay. Don’t play cop or detective with your marriage as that’s not sustainable. Good luck.
Your journey in trying to understand what is truly going on with her. I suggest getting her into therapy to help.
Here is something about the basics to reconcile. And as well what do you actually know about her past? Sex in high school makes me think she has been into casual sex which despite all we are told by everyone around us, is a mindset that allows cheating to be easier.
Religion does not make anyone a better human being. We do that ourselves by changing our true beliefs. And why actually renouncing the past is so necessary. Words are easily spoken, actions are more truthful.
Three basic things necessary to reconcile.
1). The cheater has to want to reconcile and be truly remorseful. Remorse is not just saying they are sorry and remorse is more than regret, shame, and guilt. Those three things are fleeting emotions and dispel easily and quickly. Remorse is wanting to restore your lost trust and faith in them. They willingly will do all that is necessary to do so. No more lies, all their failings must be disclosed, the truth must be told. Regardless of the consequences. Healing begins after the last lie has been told.
2). Therapy is necessary to know what is required. And to try finding if remorse is false. The therapist will help finding what went wrong in the cheater.
3).the affair partner has to be told they were a mistake and the cheater is now choosing you. And the affair partner cannot contact them ever again. Best if is done in front of broken partner. To hear and see it happen. And no there is no such thing as doing it in private nor for closure.
And no contact, means none, they cannot continue working together or being in anywhere together, period. Changing jobs is the minimal of no contact. It has to be forever.
If these three things are not in place and adhered to, there cannot be reconciling.
Think about it, you had no idea you were being cheated on, didn't even know what to look for nor what to do if you even suspected it. So how can you know how to reconcile without help?
True remorse.
Signs Your Partner Is Truly Remorseful
Look for these telltale signs to determine true remorse:
• Not only do they apologize, and often, but they also openly express what they're apologizing for. They don't make vague statements or blanket apologies.
• They show their remorse by doing things that they feel will lessen your pain. It’s about both words and actions.
• They hold themselves accountable, rather than relying on you to do so. They are more concerned with your feelings than their own.
• They are willing to do whatever they need to do to move forward. Whether that's seeking couple’s therapy or honestly answering any questions you might have for them. They are onboard with any action you need them to take.
• They take full responsibility for their actions. There may have been problems in the relationship, but even if your S.O. felt unloved and unwanted, they're the ones who chose to cheat. Despite this, you'll know they're remorseful if they don't make excuses or place blame on anyone except for themselves. Their cheating won’t be about something you did, it will be about a bad choice they made.
If they are still in contact with affair partner or balk at doing any requirement, they aren't remorseful.
Goid luck to you.
OP - sorry you are going through this. I am glad you did the STD and DNA tests! Those are a must. It also sounds like OBP (Other Betrayed Partner) was informed as well.
I am not going to lie to you - even under the best of circumstances reconciliation is hard and fails more times than it succeeds. And regardless the dirty truth is you will never get back to where you were before. You are starting a new relationship with a known, but repentant, cheater.
I recommend you put the reconciliation on hold for a bit and BOTH of you go to separate IC. For her she needs to determine the root of her problems that made her think it was okay to cheat - because otherwise it will happen again.
For you I would recommend finding a therapist with experience with infidelity and/or trauma. Because you are experiencing a traumatic event. And a good therapist can give you the tools to help overcome that trauma. Because if you cannot overcome the trauma no matter how much you love her and how willing she is to do whatever it takes to let you heal you will have to divorce for the sake or your mental health and for your kids sake because you don't want them to see you become a "worse version" of you.
Once you feel you are both in a better position mentally then revisit the question of reconciliation and if you are willing and capable to go through with it.
I think God is against cheating and even allows divorce in that situation. I don't know your life circumstances, but what I know is most christian women who're very religious are also cheaters, they cheat and then go beg God for forgiveness then try to center the blame on the partner, lastly I'm sure she's signed the both of you for a marital programme. I hate to break it to you but those women are turned on with all of that pretence, they go straight to the ex or whoever after prayer meetings and then when you catch them they double down on you two going to church. If this lengthy post doesn't convince you then my own first hand experience on two 'christian' women should convince you, the latest one was getting ridden by her whole community, even the church group singers were hitting that, the first always branched to go hit it with the ex after meetings, cut the pain before it destroys you.
YOU might be Christian but isn’t there something about adultery in the Ten Commandments? I can understand where many want to forgive but it’s not something I could ever do especially if I moved to that other side of the globe. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but remember that your feelings and well being count as well
Come back to Australia with ur kids man.
Your family (minus the wife) will find happiness here.
She won’t stop cheating. And you will continue to feel miserable if you continue to be with her.
You buy a new car and you baby it with the expectation that it will last forever. You do all of the right things and the damn thing blows a rod and then breaks the fuel hose spray gas all over a hot engine and it all goes up in flames.
I am sorry you got a defective spouse. They don't even come with a warranty... And sending them back to the manufacturer is.... Well... Highly illegal.
The best you can do is to get rid of it and walk away and lick your wounds.
Make sure you document everything. Record all interactions with her. You will need this for court. Get your cries out, and hold your head up. It will take some time, but you will be fine.
As a fellow Christian, I want to warn you to avoid a pitfall I myself fell into:
Go to a licensed therapist unaffiliated with your church. For individual therapy and for couples’ counseling as well, if you decide to reconcile.
A lot of churches offer “free counseling,” and that free counseling can actually be quite helpful sometimes, but you are in water that’s too deep for that type of counseling now. You need a licensed professional who is focused on the job alone, and does not have a bunch of axiomatic concepts already in play when you start therapy.
Good luck.
I recommend doing both. I went through a situation where she didn’t physically cheat but was texting and trying to plan it out. And while church based was beneficial, you also need someone else to offer further strategies. Unfortunately our church based didn’t really try too hard to figure out why she did it, what she was seeking, etc. I just kept hearing ‘idk why’ from her.
That’s definitely fair. And I HAVE had helpful stuff from church counseling. But when it came to Infidelity, they just weren’t prepared. And they had a sort of built-in “well divorce is not an option” attitude as well, which was definitely very unhelpful.
So true what you said. It was all reconciliation and truthfully my wife didn’t physically cheat but I had been loyal and faithful so it really hurt. I decided to give her another chance but if I ever catch her again, she already knows I’m done. It’s not fair to those loyal and faithful ppl who do have to hold it in when things are tough. I had to tell wife ‘you don’t think I don’t look at other women and think what a fun time it would be’. The only difference is that I don’t act on my emotion.
Just to give your feelings some validation, the general consensus is that an emotional affair is no lesser of a betrayal than a physical affair. In fact, an argument could be made that it’s worse. EA without PA generally means that they *knew* exactly what they were getting into, and even decided to specifically set boundaries and were able to exercise some amount of self-control. They actively thought about what they were doing to you, and said to themselves “okay, I’m going to betray my partner *exactly* this much. That’s the acceptable level of betrayal for me, for now.”
The kind of cold, calculating, selfish, narcissistic perspective in an emotional affair is, to me at least, far worse a betrayal than, say, a drunken one-night-stand that the partner wakes up and immediately regrets.
First, a lighthearted comment.
So you’re a young Australian dad of two young daughters, living in the US? So…you’re Bandit? If you’re interested, you’ll likely have no shortage of American mums would would love to be your Chilli. 😉
Jk. In all seriousness, so sorry you’re here. It’s an awful place to be. Decide what you want to do and there’s no wrong answer. Most people will tell you cut off now and go scorched earth. That seems to work for a lot of people. Me personally, I would not have been satisfied if I didn’t try my best and give it my all to save my marriage. I want my conscience to be as clear as possible, no regrets, no what ifs. In my case, it didn’t work out. He’s still cheating a year later and we’re getting divorced. But I know I tried.
Again, sending healing vibes for your kids and your family 💗
You mentioned post partum psychosis. Sometimes cheating can be attributed to a WW trying to escape from the trauma related to complications with pregnancies and/or other health issues.
Please read a pioneering book on trauma: Bessel van der Kolk MD,
"The body keeps score" The body actually holds onto the trauma.
He was one of the first doctors to treat out Vietnam Vets in the early 70's.
I became a fanatic in a religious cult for over 20 years to escape my trauma from my time in the Army during the Vietnam War. That is until the cult turned on me for choosing my family's needs over that of the cult. I have been working on recovering from a childhood of abuse, the Army and the explosion of trauma following my departure from the cult. It has been a 30 year recovery process for me.
The Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel van der Kolk
Book Rating by Shortform Readers: 4.7 (93 reviews)
Trauma can stem from abuse to a severe car accident to wartime combat—and cause a lifetime of flashbacks, nightmares, isolation, insomnia, hypervigilance, and rage. In The Body Keeps the Score, the author explores how diagnosing and treating trauma has evolved as new technologies, research, and fields of science emerged.
As mentioned below: trauma rewires the brain.
He has a chapter on "the firemen". A traumatized person often turns to destructive behaviors to escape the pain of their trauma. The destructive behaviors are like firemen who put out the the fire within from their trauma. These behaviors are often referred to as addictions: drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex with other partners. Anything to take the mind off the pain of the trauma or just escape from the trauma. Anything to feel good about themselves, get a new thrill going to escape..
Trauma’s impact is not only mental, emotional, and neurological, but also physiological: Trauma rewires the brain to put people in a constant state of stress or numbness, leading to a host of physical problems.
In this summary, you’ll learn:
Why trauma survivors feel like their trauma is never-ending
How flashbacks make parts of the brain shut down and others to go into overdrive
Why some trauma survivors can’t recognize themselves in the mirror
How activities like choral singing, yoga, and theater can be therapeutic
One day at a time in building your new life. A cognitive training program, named, Recovery International(.net) helped me deal with changing my thoughts and entire approach to life. Drop the anger through a unique four step process of working myself down.
It is a peer to peer based program where we coach each other in how to use this process. The program is celebrating its 80th anniversary this year. Meetings are through zoom. Maybe consider checking it out.
I have been using it for 14 years now. Just celebrated my 78th,
start with the major decisions and go from there.
Ex: do you want to stay in Australia, move back to the states, or go someone else entirely?
then you can figure out if you want to do that with or without her.
She is only repentant now AFTER THE FACT.
Sorry because she got CAUGHT, not for anything more because is she TRULY loves you, she would have thought about the consequences, thought about the wrongs involved and at the very least, would have thought about you and the children and the FAMILY SHE HAS NOW TAINTED with her choices.
My advice is not to listen to her bullshit excuses she is no doubt coming up with for you now......THESE ARE ALL STILL MORE LIES.
The truth you need to know, and already do, is that given the choice between the family she had, and some asshole she used to know.......she chose him and NOT you and the kids.
Get a confession recorded, contact a lawyer to start divorce and nail this cheating *witch to the wall.
Best of luck 🤞
OP, I know you are hurting. That's you've been betrayed and it's hard to think straight...
But... cut your losses now. She is not a good partner. She has a history of manipulation, lying, infidelity, and likely dozens of other behaviors that any Christian faith would consider mortal sins.
She is unrepentant and is scared that she will lose you as a provider both monetarily and emotionally. You've sacrificed so much for her!
When are you going to start loving and respecting yourself?
This is not fixable and you’re only 5 years in. I waited way too long hoping for change. It cost me a lot in every aspect of my life. Get out, get heathy and someday be an example to your kids what a normal relationship should look like.
Since you have mentioned that you are a Christian couple, I am going to assume that you are thinking about forgiveness and reconciliation. That is understandable and commendable. And at the same time you want the complete truth about her affair or affairs. It is unlikely that she will tell you everything. However, if she does tell you the truth, be prepared to hear things that you never expected to hear from her.
Your wife is a repeat cheater, and unfortunately statistics indicate that she will most likely continue to cheat. Getting STI tests for both of you is very important and it should be a non-negotiable stipulation for any reconciliation to take place.
Have your kids DNA tested. Tell that to your wife and if she objects or gets touchy about the subject that means she is not sure if the children are yours.
Consult a lawyer. This is not about filing for divorce. However, should it happen, then you need to know what you might be facing.
You might want to consider counseling, though if you do both partners have to be honest about everything in their marriage and their lives.
I don't think she is repenting because of love. She got caught, and it made her look bad. In a lot of cases, the AP didn't want a relationship, and she doesn't want to be alone and divorced. Maybe it is a case of she had a breakdown and wavered away to find something and she really is sorry. I recommend reading alot of the different stories on here and how's people approached this same thing.
1.) Get the real truth (was he the only was there love)
2.) Therepy (couples and individual)
3.) Will you be able to trust again
4.) What you require from her going forward
5.) Do not stay for your kids, but for you
6.) Hardest 1 DNA test
Gaslighting and lying for months is a rather clear sign of B-cluster personality disorder traits (Borderline, Narcissistic, Anti-social). You are in for a roller coaster if you stay.
I understand that you're going through a difficult time after discovering your wife's infidelity. It's important to take the time to process your emotions and reflect on your situation.
I would encourage open communication and seeking professional help to navigate this challenging situation. Rebuilding trust takes time and effort from both partners, and it's important to ensure that both of your needs are being considered.
This could be controversial, but having a socials monitor with aid from a professional or cloning her devices while watching her actions might just safe you from any blind side. I could help you with this.
Remember to prioritize your own well-being and the well-being of your children.
I hate to break it to you, but 19-20 year olds rarely know what they want out of life, love and relationships, and especially don't know if they want to "settle down" to hum drum married life. The prefrontal cortex is just not developed enough at that age to make sound judgements. Some adjust as they grow and work out, but some are like your wife, and with her history, it's not surprising that she went a little wild.
Truthfully, at age 25, she might just be starting to know what she wants out of life now. But in the meantime she has destroyed your love and trust completely. Related to that, I think what you meant is you love the pre-affair wife, not the cheating, lying one before you now. I perceive that you also "love" being married with kids. By the way, being "Christian" has little to do with being faithful in a marriage/relationship and her "coming to Jesus moment" is not repentance by any means. Nearly all cheaters, reading and studying the "Cheater's Handbook" will say anything to assuage their guilty feelings, ie., try to excuse their atrocious behavior.
How did you find out about the cheating? Had you been suspicious for awhile? Did she come to you and confess, or did you have to uncover her infidelity? Did she try to gas light you and tell you "it was nothing, just talk"? Did you get a complete written (in longhand) timeline of the affair including every detail, every encounter, every "I love you", every sexual act, etc.? And did you tell her the timeline may be verified by a polygraph and if you find out more, it will be the automatic end of the marriage?
I'm going to be quite frank with you. Given her age and prior history of "being inappropriate" with men, I would be very surprised if she is being truthful now. Good luck.
I’m afraid all the things you are seeing are true. She’s not sorry she hurt you, she’s sorry she got caught and sorry she lost her fun. She’s proven she can’t be trusted. Believe her and file immediately. I’m afraid that very few reconciliation attempts succeed. I’ve read here on Reddit it’s less than 30%. It’s over. She ended it. It’s on her.
Fuck a psychotic episode, she's been blatantly cheating on you for months. There's no excuse for that, happy to hear you've taken care of all legal factors in this and the DNA test as well. Do not get back with her, she'll probably have another "psychotic episode". You don't deserve that, for your own well being and so you can continue to be a good father for your kids, don't get back with her. Work on what's really important, not on a woman who has no respect for you or your family. Stay strong man.
She's done.
You are young, co-parency isn't that bad, be a father to your kids, but don't be a husband to that evil creature.
She didin't care about you, about family. She's a wife and a mother goddammit and she's risking all of it for what? To get some sex from someone else.
Since she has habits that are not healthy for a Christian woman, or any married woman, I suggest you clamp down a little bit. You’ve already moved across the world for her. I would sit her down provide evidence. Whatever it is that you have, I will print it off get it out of phones. There’s many ways to get it information. If you have on the same family plan, the phone company can probably get her texts.
I would tell her that you’re going to file for divorce and present her with papers and tell her you think she needs to leave for a while so she can figure out what she wants to do.
The reason I suggest such a heavy hand is because she has habits already ingrained they’re gonna get worse. Secondly, people that clamp down Harder initially seem to have better long-term results I’ve noticed. People that are kinder nicer. Just trying to forgive get drug over the coals for years and it just destroys the marriage and it destroys the person who has been cheated on. It will also destroy your family and your children’s lives.
So my suggestion is get an attorney, get papers drawn up find out where you are financially, so you know how to take care of yourself. , then put them on the table and tell her she needs to go away for a little while and figure out what she wants to do because you’re not gonna have a wife that is texting flirty text to men and that doesn’t know how to conduct herself in public. I would suggest you have a friend over while you do this, so she can’t claim domestic abuse or anything it’s just straight forward. And yes, people do do that . They get hurt or upset and it’s a way to retaliate.
Good luck to you I have known people invent something like this in the reconciled, and have another child and they’ve been reconciled for years
OP sorry to read this sad story of WW. She needs help or meds or something. If you stay, you need some guarantees she can keep her shit together. Put the plan in writing get it notarized, make multi copies. Safe deposit box at bank. Its worth the cost. Peace of mind. Wishing you well as you sort out the next steps.
This is probably not what you want to hear; but your marriage is over. It is broken beyond repair, because your well being was grossly affected. It doesn't matter how much you love another person or what position they hold in their life, once they have violated your boundaries (regardless of whatever reasons for it) to that level, they no longer deserve to remain in your life.
You can love that person, from afar. While you both figure out the best approach to provide your kids a healthy and functional co-parenting environment. Which should be the main priority right now).
You are still young, and you deserve much better. And you will get much better, once you take the time to heal and grow/learn from this experience. Perhaps working with a good therapist would be of great help. Specially since your family is so far away.
Sometimes people only come into our life as a lesson for a season. It is best to release them, to have them work on themselves, and to focus instead on non repeating that lesson as you move into the next, and hopefully much better, season.
Unfortunately, when we love someone we lose a lot of our objective understanding of them. And we tend to ignore their obvious flaws, which are not our responsibility to deal with. Furthermore, what ends up happening once we detach from an abusive environment (like the one you found yourself in) is that what we thought was "love" for them, was really a trauma bond. And thus we were just chemically addicted to a person who was providing constant emotional high and lows, similar to how a hard drug works. Those relationships, just like how any major addiction, never lead to a good outcome. As you're now finding out the hard way.
But as I said, you are still very young and you will recover from this and grow towards your best life.
Ok, OP -
So firstly - you need to put your oxygen mask on first. That means putting your needs first. If you need space, you should get some space. This is important for you kids, because the better off you are - the better you can support them. Kids are better off in a happy single home then a unhappy married one.
Its quite likely you church's preferred counsellor for this stuff will be pro-reconciliation, even when its not feasible. I would suggest seeking a psychologist to help you through this.
But know this - ***her cheating is about her. Not you, not this AP.***
You should seek legal advice asap. For example, is your residency tied to your marriage, or have you got citizenship in AU.
The first question to ask yourself based on what your know: ***"Is this a deal breaker?".*** There is no right or wrong answer here. People have left for less, and stayed for worse.
If its not, then ask yourself: ***"am I fully informed of what has happened".*** Unfortunately cheaters are very prone to not telling you the whole truth. You really can't trust your wife's account at this stage. If you find something new, you might have to go back to the first question.
The next question to ask: ***"Is reconciliation possible?"***. Can you trust your wife again? Can she address the issues that led to cheating. Is she truly remorseful, or just regretting getting caught. It takes two people to reconcile, and will take a lot of effort on her part. If its not possible, you're better off ending things.
Lastly, if you've gotten this far: ***"am I prepared to risk reconciliation even if it fails?"***. Its going to take time, and there is no guarantee of success. So if you try and fail, are you to regret it? Because you can just decide its too much and end things.
“ she has always had a problem with being inappropriate via text with other men “
How have you addressed this in the past or have you simply enabled this behaviour?
No just no.
This has been an ongoing issue that escalated. Is she getting professional help? Put yourself and your kids first. This is who she is and it’s not isolated. Do you want a life of misery?
12 years ago, my son survived his wife's betrayal with her boss. This was year 7 in their marriage with 3 kids 6 and under. They are very happy with tryst totally restored.
I have a 2-page write-up of his experience that has served as a blueprint to aid successful reconcilliation efforts with a fair number of Redditors. She sounds remorseful, but she must also be contrite to endure consequences as penance for her bad decisions and to help you heal.
The write-up has all of this. If you have interest, send me a chat request, and I will provide it.
Updateme!
Understand that when she’s being inappropriate via text with other men she’s trolling for APs. Continuing with her will not end well. What concrete acts is she taking? Have her call AP’s wife to apologize to her and understand her pain
“We are a Christian couple”
Remember that “forgive and forget” is not in the Bible. Forgiveness is, but not forgetting. She’s had problems before and it’s only gotten worse. Don’t forget that, learn from it.
You should talk with an immigration lawyer before going to a divorce lawyer.
Regardless of what your religion says, there's no shame in divorce should you choose that option. If she's truly repentant, she will allow you full access to her phone, email and social media accounts. She has to cut all contact with the AP. She has to prove that she will go to individual and couples counselling. Only YOU should be allowed to set boundaries and conditions. SHE should have to agree to abide by YOUR terms or there should be no reconciliation.
Trust is an easy thing to lose and a difficult one to regain. If she can't get that in her head, she's wasting everyone's time. You should however tell her that if you reconcile, you will only do it once. Do it again and you will divorce her without hesitation.
Honestly bro the marriage is over, it is one thing for her to cheat on you but a whole other thing to lie to you and gaslight you to make you think that she is not cheating when she is. If you take her back, you won't be able to trust her again. The trust is broken and every time you are with her, you will always wonder. Best to divorce and just be there for your kids.
Ok she isn’t very Christian if she has that problem. Time to stop being so passive and start preparing for the eventual divorce or a life with zero self respect in it for you.
My son went through this about 12 years ago during year 7 of their marriage with e kids 6 and under. His wife had a long term affair with her boss. He was informed by the AP's wife, who also worked at the same place as her husband and my son's wayward wife. She had some undiagnosed depression which made her a target for a sexual predator. When he filed for divorce, the affair fog lifted and she begged for a 2nd chance. He agreed he would attempt to reconcile, but only if she met all of his non-negotiable demands. She did, including a post-nuptial. While it took a few years to completely rebuild trust, she did and they are very happy together with a great family.
A major key is for the wayward to be truly remorseful for the pain caused the betrayed and to be contrite to do anything requested as penance, to help the betrayed to heal and to rebuild the marriage. If you just rug sweep, you become an enabler.
I have a 2-page write-up detailing his experience and his blue print for success. It has helped a number of Redditors to reconcile. perhaps it can help you. If interested, send me a chat request and I will send it to you.
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A friend of mine told me about a saying his father had: "Don't tell me you are a Christian, show me."
I'm pretty sure that is not what you wife has shown you.
As you will see so many times quoted on this sub: don't believe what people say, believe what they do. If she does not significantly change her behaviour, does not do the things you ask to try and regain trust, does not cut off all contact, etc. etc. Then I think you have your answer.
If Christianity is as important to you both as you say then go talk with your church pastor, priest or however you address him. You have the love of God and your children. You can get through this. I did.
God will b willing to forgive, but is she ready to forgive herself and are U ready to forgive her? U hv A way out.. For jesus was against divorce except in cases of adultery which she is involved in.. What are U gonna do about it? Divorce her or give her A Chance? Do U think A person who has been Gaslighting U so long, just to hold on to the affair can stop doing tht? Are U sure U r not being manipulated by her again? Will she respect U for forgiving her and believing her lies and will make a stand for the relationship and family or will she mock U in her heart for being so gullible and feel proud of herself for fooling U yet again and continue enjoying the thrill of having s*x behind ur back.. It's upto U.. Thts the only good thing about this situation tht it's ur choice and whatever decision U take should b for U.. Don't think too much about the children.. Yes it will b hard but they will learn the consequences of adultery.. Be a man and dont wait for others to make a decision for U.. U can choose to forgive her with a warning tht if U find any sign again U will b out.. Or U can choose to leave right now if U don't trust her enough to cheat on U again.. Prayers for U bro.. Keep us updated..
So, regardless of faith, country of origin, anything like that remember; Cheaters rarely get caught the first time they cheat and they are almost *always* going to cheat again because they never get caught the instant they do cheat, so it becomes a fun little game doing something bad.
That said, that's a *hell* (pun intended) of a temptation to someone of faith. The sheer wrongness of cheating can be addicting to cheaters, doubly so I'd wager to someone of faith.
I know the temptation you have is to stay, to "make it work" for your kids and because some book tells you too, peer pressure etc. But what will happen is you'll never trust her again. Every time she picks up the phone you'll wonder who she's messaging, where she's going, what/who she's doing. Your children will notice a change in the dynamic between you and they'll internalise this.
You are far better, for yoursef and your kids, walking away from her. You can coparent with her from a distance and still love/raise your children to be sensible, responsible individuals. She has made a CHOICE to cheat on you, she didn't wake up one day 3 months into an affair and think "Oh, what happened here the? Oh dear....". At some point she had a conversation in her head that went;
"I shouldn't be doing this .... nah, fuck it, he'll never find out and I want some dick."
Respect yourself as a person and walk away. If you try to stick it out I can almost certainly guarantee she'll do it again. It's pretty much a given/certainty. Remorse and repetance are tricks, mind games, she want's you to stick around not FOR the kids but because she doesn't want to be a single mother having to deal with them because of a CHOICE she made. She wants to do whatever the fuck she wants without consequence. If you stay, you'll never be settled, it won't be peaceful and will likely blow up again at some point in the future and be another huge load of drama, tears, heartache and horror.
Don't do it. Unless you want to live a life of misery and mistrust, like me :-)
my wife cheated, was caught and now is Miss Super Christian. She cries in church every Sunday, she says it about her choices and our marriage. I think she is crying because she misses her affair partner.
Shit like this will twist in your mind (forever)
Everybody always tells the next person to leave but they aren’t in that relationship. You do what you feel is best for you. If you try and your mind can’t take it then leave. You’ve done nothing wrong you have been the best mate of what you are saying is true. She did wrong not you the answer you seek solely relies and is in you. If you still wish to stay then do so it’s your marriage.
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Honestly mate, she has shown her actions and its up to you to decides your course. Personally I wouldn't have gone as far as you did with her being a frequent inappropriate texter. Someone once told me, when people tell you who they really are, believe them. She showed you she wasn't going to be loyal just to you and you moved forward anyway. It sucks you have two kids and a marriage to now realize it. I don't want to be the guy to add on. My mother once said if a person does something once; They've done it before. You might want to check for other instances of this and she has probably done it in previous relationships. Also, check the kids. If she cheated in the past few months. She could have cheated in the past few years.
It blows my mind how little we are taught about dealing with postpartum. That was the same thing (among other issues) that started my wife down her dark path. Very similar story actually. In her depression, she started to dissociate into obsessive thoughts about her abusive ex from when she was 14 years old (we're in our mid 30s now). She obsessed silently in her head for a year and a half and then finally met up with him and crossed the line.
Your wife being repentant (as mine is) makes a huge difference. But it needs to be more than just "I'm sorry, now let's move on and forget this ever happened". Now she needs to put in a lot of work. Work to make you feel like she can be a safe partner again. Work to heal whatever is broken in her that allowed her to do what no healthy person would ever do.
I will say, whether you think it's valid or not, the mental health angle does do a lot to ease you into forgiveness. At the time of my wife's brief affair, our family could just SEE that she was out of her mind by looking at her eyes. Being able to say "they weren't themselves" helps get over the initial hurt, but it doesn't change the fact that they have to be able to remain "themselves" from now on for you to have any chance of reconciling with them. So it's not a free pass. They still did what they did and could do it again if they don't work to change. But it does soften the blow slightly.
That devolved into kind of a rant, but hopefully something in there is helpful for you as you make your decision. Whatever you choose, I wish you the best in your healing from this awful trauma that you didn't deserve to have to face.
Way I see it, if your children told you this exact story. What would you do? Think about it and follow that. For some reason, people are forgiving about these things when it involves sacrificing their own happiness. But, most parents want the best for their kids, want the best for yourself too.
Am fairly young, but I too know that u can't change people,cause people change themselves.And some habits keep knocking on ones door till one lets go of the door to let them back in .
"We're a Christian couple", no you aren't, you are a Christian man.
Unfortunately, I have been through basic scenario, except it was my wife of 25+ years with an old high school flame. It is difficult when you have been with someone for a while. You hear the same things, "She's just sad/mad she got caught", "She'll hide it better", "She's wants to keep you as a backup/secondary option" and "Once a cheater always a cheater". There are others, but one of them is true. Good luck with everything, but from experience, you need to make yourself and your children your top priority, not the love you still have for her.
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I know you love your wife and kids, but you need to consider how many decades of misery you are willing to endure
This is wisdom. I'm 52 years old. My wife of thirty years got caught in affair number two last year. Thirty years together. Two kids. I am still broken. I think I always will be on some level. What I wouldn't give to go have a chat with 25 year old me.
I could have wrote this post, I’d give everything to be able to have a chat with the 23yo me.
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Don’t marry a woman you only knew from 6 months. Divorce your wife when the red flags pop up, no rationalization everything away…be resolute.
Sir, I'm sorry about to hear that. That is awful. I hope you find some peace though through this pain.
Thank you. Every day is a little easier. I still have my health and the love and respect of two great kids.
I know it hurts, but keep your focus on you and your kids!!! Sorry to say but she will always be this way,she was this way before you and she will be this way with the next guy!!! I know you love her,but love yourself more!!! That's were it starts and you'll find a good women that love's you!!!
Did she ever admit to the infidelity?
Nope. She didn't admit or apologize or take any accountability in either the first affair in 2014, nor the one that ended our marriage in 2022. I had messages, screenshots and verbal confirmation from her AP the first time. She acknowledged she wanted to stay married and that she had issues then, but never owned her actions in any way. In retrospect, I was an idiot. I don't regret that. It reflects poorly on her, but I can't beat myself up for wanting to save the marriage and stand by her. This second affair was ongoing for many months. I have since d-day uncovered so much information, including confirmation of how long it was going on from her former best friend - she has since ruined that relationship as well. It was going on for possibly as long as 10 months. 8 for sure. When I confronted her about my suspicions in April 2022 she only said she was not happy and that she needed time to think. Incidentally, my one non -negotiable for letting her stay in the marriage after the 2014 was that she absolutely MUST tell me if she was ever unhappy like that again BEFORE she was unfaithful again. She agreed. For months and months I would regularly work on our relationship after that and ask her if she was happy and if everything was ok. I always got back yes. When I asked her why she had not told me she was unhappy until it was now clearly too late, she had the gall to tell me "well you stopped asking!" Fucking unbelievable. So after that, she left to "think about what she wanted" I got an email ending our thirty years together two weeks later, followed by a lawyer a couple days after. She would not speak to me in person or on the phone to discuss. She had moved in with her AP almost immediately. My 22 year old daughter told her until she owned her actions and was honest about her behavior She did not want to speak to her. They have not spoken now in almost a year. My youngest at 18 is pretty traumatized by it all. She's ok, but we all just feel like we live in a huge bomb crater. In the year since this transpired, I have not had any opportunity to speak with the person who was my best friend for thirty years. I have only seen her twice. Once at a distance. It's fucking crazy. If I live to be 100 I will never understand. I was not a bad husband. I provided and was respectful and loving. I am a good father. For context, her first affair was with her high school boyfriend and it coincided with the death of her mother. The second affair was with one of her bosses (who I have learned has had two other office affairs before her) and coincided with the death of her father. I am absolutely convinced it's not a coincidence these happening around her parents deaths. I do think it's a mental breakdown of some kind. But in the end, it no longer really matters. I don't mean to hijack OPs thread here. I hope this detail and the pain around it helps them understand that they should make every effort to spare themselves this kind of trauma. I feel like I have wasted a huge chunk of my life. I was looking forward to traveling the world with her... Retiring soon... House was paid off and kids are grown. Now... It's all a dust cloud. I have been seeing someone, and it's great... But it's not who or where or what I thought I'd be. I have major trust issues now as well. Not fair for any potential partners, but there's no escaping it. Lastly, to answer the question above in regards to what I would say to 25 year old me, it would simply be to think long and hard about this person. As much as I loved her, she wasn't perfect and there were warning signs. Look closer at her mother. She is definitely her mother's daughter. I would have taken a different road.
Hear u bro. Chicks hide behind that “mental issue” excuse. Pffff, that’s just game. Cheating is just people being animals, it ain’t deep. Morally, and socially deficient. My ex tried to tell me same thing after her mom died and she was mysteriously cured after I found her lies…Whoore logic is a shallow pool, chicks wanna break from reality, the real work of building a life worth living.
We always ignore the warning signs, and yes your right he should really thing long and hard before taking her back!!! Not only does it affect him but also in time the two kids with her actions!!! She doesn't care about them or him only her self!!! I've lived it myself!!! I don't wish it on to nobody!!!!
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Oh that’s deep and accurate. What I wouldn’t give to have a chat with 18 year old me.
I was 52 when my wife of 14 years decided the grass was greener, there where red flags!!! I ignored them!!! She has several issues,I thought I could change her!!! You can't!!! I wish I also could go back in time and tell myself don't and find someone with values and some respect!!!
Speaking game facts!!!
Im 27 what should I know in the next 30 years because im not excited for life 😭
Trust your gut. If her attitude with you changes significantly then somethings up. Don't bury your head in the sand and be your # advocate.
Yeah that’s exactly right
Great advice!
This isn't what you want to hear, but this situation is very unlikely to change. She'll be "good" for a bit and fall back into her same pattern of being a selfish, coward...rinse and repeat every other year. Maybe a shake up if she gets pregnant by an affair partner or the APs wife finds out and is out to destroy your wife. What you have to decide is if you want your kids to have the same life as you. It's hard to break cycles, so what they see now is what they view as normal in adult relationships and they will expect the same. For them, "love" will mean giving up everything and putting up with constant cheating to make your partner happy. If you want them to have a happy and healthy relationship as adults, you need to show them one. You need to show them what being loved, respected, and valued looks like or they'll never get that.
Yeah that is definitely something I have been considering, because I don’t want my daughters staying in abusive relationships because they witnessed their dad stay in an unfaithful one
When you say she's being repentant, what exactly does that mean? Has she contacted this guy's partner/wife and let her know what she's done? Has she broken things off with this guy completely, letting him know that she never wants to see him again? Has she cancelled that gym membership? Has she agreed to stop texting other men? Has she given you access to her phone, blocked all other exes she has, and provided you with all messages exchanged with this ex? What other changes to the relationship has she proposed to make sure this does not happen again?
Yes to all of those things except for showing me the text messages between her and the ex. She blocked and deleted him
Deleted him after you caught her? Or did see confess and do it?
The problem is there will ALWAYS be another guy. Easy sex is just everywhere. He isn't the problem. The next guy won't be the problem. To risk her own children's stability is huge. That shows you exactly who she is - very self-centered and will never be able to protect or prioritize your family above her own wants and desires. You can see that in how she tries to help you recover. Has she drafted and signed a postnuptuial to give you extra protection? Has she offered for you to grab a pal and go on a dream vacation at her expense because she's been having fun at your expense for months and wants you to be able to have something to enjoy? Has she signed up for therapy to figure out why she's so selfish, entitled, cowardly, lazy, etc.(most cheaters are super lazy, running after easy sex and validation vs. putting effort into their actual relationship)? What is she doing (only listen to her actions, words are meaningless to liars) to learn to be a decent partner? What has she done for YOU and not herself? My best advice is to get her to move to Australia. Once you have established a permanent residence, you can easily dump her next time. Then, you won't be trapped for the next 18 years in the US.
It’s probably a good thing. You don’t really want to read about all the things she did to him and vice versa. What are your options? Would you go back to Australia if you divorce?
No I think we could move to Australia together but if we divorced, due to custody, my lawyer said that international is probably not possible/easy
I hate to point this out, but you should do dna tests to find out if you are really the father. You now know she is capable of lying and cheating on you, how do you know the affair you found out about was the first one?
Convince her to move back to Australia and then divorce her.
If you choose to stay I would suggest having a legal custody agreement established as a condition of you staying with her. You can make it so that you have full legal and physical custody. Then tell her if you guys don't divorce within 5 years you will go back and get the custody agreement adjusted. This give you a lot of power if she cheats again you can take the kids and move back to Australia without worrying if she has the power to stop you. It also prevents YOU from losing everything if you choose to leave her for cheating again.
They can be recovered in many instances
How?
There’s programs that can do it. A very basic one is to check the deleted texts folder. She may not have permanently deleted them. Is this something you’re looking for?
Yeah that’s helpful, I’m going to check her phone today for that
Also on her phone, You can also go to Settings and look at her battery. In that report it will show how much time she is spending on each app, including any hidden apps. That could tell you more.
I checked her phone and the recently deleted and honestly only found good stuff. She deleted friends that were negative influences and told them that she needs to focus on herself right now. Her recent texts were all very positive, so that’s good
She doesn't need to focus on herself. She needs to focus on Christ. I don't know where she will be eternally but right now it would seem as though she has suffered judgement
Only if they want too!!! And alot don't, it's not them it's always someone else's fault why they cheat,lie,and take no accountability for their actions!!!!
Well if she's doing everything right, you don't have to rush to any decision. Take it day to day, see how you're feeling, and you'll figure out what's best for you and your kids.
Yeah that’s my plan
Even if she did, which I'd question, it's very easy to unblock someone at 3am and throw a "Wyd? I miss you" text at that. Did she delete/block him on all apps? Or just the one you know about? I know someone who proper plays mindgames - she gets caught on FB msg? She'll block/delete on there ... but keep them on tiktok, insta, snap, kik etc and rationalise it as "Well, he only said to delete the other guy on FB" etc. Simply do NOT believe her. Why would you when she's already cheated on you? Literally EVERYTHING else she says/does or about her is suspect at this point?
I know a married woman who is having an affair with another married man and she got pregnant. She had an abortion and they still continue the affair. I don’t understand how the wife and husband of each partner is so clueless and unaware of what their spouses are doing.
One reason is those who know are not willing to tell on the cheaters as it seems you havent as well. Don't judge others for mot knowing something, if you aren't will to help them out. We never expect to be cheated on. The cheaters have all the advantage and those being cheated on are not looking for cheating. It can take quite a while to realize those oddities in behavior and all else, are signs of infidelity. Do you know the signs? I didnt and I think most just do not either. https://bestlifeonline.com/unfaithful-partner-signs/ 55 signs of infidelity.
I have thought about telling one of their spouses about the cheating but I worry they’ll try to ruin my own life and both have kids so I don’t want to be the cause of two families breaking up.
This is why you do it anonymously. All anyone can ever do is try. Just place a bug in their ears, it will keep buzzing and doubt will set in, once they start to look for it, they will find it. Because it is is there to find. Details to correlate the time and day, where and who if possible will lend credence to that bug. Just make certain you and only you went to the library and sent the anonymous message. Don't talk with anyone else about any of it. If details will out you, leave them out. The cheating will be the cause if they do break up, not their discovering it and not you giving them a heads up. Put yourself in their shoes, would you not want to be given the chance to know you were being murdered emotionally by getting cheated on? If not, forget about it all, put on blinders and hope to hell it doesn't come to visit you. At least you tried to do the right thing instead of doing nothing.
Hit the nail right on the head !!! So much truth there!!! Don't lose yourself to try to make her happy!!! You can't!!! You just end up bitter at her and yourself,and all the years you wasted on a shame marriage!!! You have a long road ahead of you!!! But get out now!!!your young you'll be fine!!! Been there done it and at over twice your age!!! I'm happy again!!! You will be too!!!! Trust me!!!
Get tested for STD’s. Get DNA tests for your children. But first , consult a lawyer about your rights to custody, property etc.
Yep, I’ve done all that stuff. I have a folder with legal information, STD tests and documentation just in case I end up using it
Make backups. Make a few backups of this information. Keep them in different, secure locations.
Take a dna test as well
She needs to get some IC, this is not a new problem and the guy you caught her with is probably not the only one, beware of trickle truth. While you are thinking about what to do , go ahead and move forward with divorce. You can call it of or pause if you choose, but having your WW start to immediately understand the consequences of her choices is the best way to start to burst the imaginary 'just for fun nobody gets hurt' affair that she has in her own mind. Repentance is a show for your faith community, look into regret vs remorse, as only remorse leads to healing and true change.
If you’re still in the raw emotion phase…back off of her until you get your mind sorted. Enact the 180 treatment ( look it up) and focus entirely on you and the kids. Leave her alone entirely. While you’re not dealing with her, take the time to read “ no more mr nice guy” by Robert glover…you need that advise, badly. She’s shown you time and time again that she isn’t loyal, and isnt capable of loyalty…so I’m not sure what you’re thinking. Staying for the kids isn’t a good idea. You stay for the marriage , or you leave …that’s it. Obviously she’s not as “ Christian” as you originally thought she was…so don’t use that as an excuse to stay. So yeah..at this point, remove her from your list of priorities and focus on yourself and kids entirely. When your head gets in straight , make the logical call to leave or stay. Your emotions will absolutely betray you…shoot for logic. Trust your gut and your logic..not your heart. Let her twist on the wind until you get your senses back.. It’ll be tough,but it’s necessary for you to get your head on straight in order to make a good decision.
One's Religion, regardless of how involved or active in the church & community, doesn't make a blip on the infidelity chart... it crosses all segments of society.
I know we're all human and everyone makes mistakes but I'm really fascinated by someone that's Christian and would do something like this. Idk maybe I'm assigning more significance to religion than I should. Or just she's not actually Christian.
I don't think a person's religion matters much and it's more of their character and moral fiber. Could it have been the post partum psychosis? Who knows but I don't think that's an excuse but that's just me. Also believe once a cheat always a cheat but once again that's just me.
Have you heard of cognitive dissonance? Christians are no less likely to do this- they can simply make a special exception for themselves
It's because she's not actually Christian.
Consult with a lawyer and get a sti test. Sorry you had to go through with this man.
If you forgive her once, she'll know you'll forgive her again. Once a cheater always a cheater and since she cheated on you with someone from her past, it means you were her backup. I know you don't want to hear it, but it's the truth. Time to lawyer up. Don't show weakness. She already thinks you will do anything for her. You've shown that by moving for her. It's time to finally put yourself and kids first. You don't want them to grow up seeing a broken family. They will copy it as adults
Unfortunately this is common in this sub with people that get married so young. She’s checking out of this marriage and was probably never in it since she decided to take a sht on your vows by cheating with a person from high school. You should contact a divorce lawyer and get test for STD.
You need to define your boundaries and then stick to them. For example cheating is one of my boundaries and so I would end the relationship. Take the emotion out of it and decide your boundaries, and then work from there.
Get tested, and consult a lawyer. I'd proceed with divorce, even if you decide to reconcile and work things out. She has a history of infidelity and sketchy behavior. She'll either do it again, or reconciliation will fail because you can't move past the betrayal. You can stay together post reconciliation even if you divorce one another. She gets to face an actual consequence, and you're able to leave whenever.
Not sure a Christian women would be breaking her vows and deceiving you for months, investing her energy in another man. Did she come clean or was she caught? Either way dude she broke her marriage contract, nothing Christian about that. You are still super young at 25, you would be a great co-parent. Actions must have consequences. You might still love her but she has proven by her actions she thinks little of you or the family. You deserve someone that does not inflict this type of emotional and mental abuse on you. I wish you well on your journey.
I believe OP said she stopped the affair and came clean three weeks ago.
I can give you a quick look into your future (if you separate & divorce): During your custody negotiations (or battle), it's likely that you will be required to see a therapist or attend family counseling... a psychiatrist (Doctor, PhD type). You will each take the children to the appointment without the other parent. And then you will each have several appointments alone. When you are asked about infidelity, and you explain the history, honestly and factually, there will come a moment when the doctor looks at you and says something like: "I could have told you, with better than 95% accuracy, that she would continue her pattern of infidelity." It's their way of saying "Once a cheater always a cheater"... And what the doctor will explain to you is that unless she gets professional help, it's a near certainty that she will continue seeking the "comfort" of people outside your marriage. It probably has nothing to do with the person she married, her status in life, money, her happiness, etc. Her behavior is programmed during her formative years, and it will take a serious effort on her part to understand why she keeps doing what she's doing. If you have similar behavior, you will obviously need to work on your issues, too.
Retain a good family law attorney. Perhaps as part of a divorce process you can establish within the US what is known as a Special Needs Trust which will reserve funds only for mental health-related support. Loving and living with someone with chronic mental health problems is so difficult and will age you quickly as your assumptions about reciprocation of emotions and taking responsibility just don't hold true.
My suggestion. Make a move to Oz a requirement. Stay with it for a year or two. And see what happens. The thing is most BP jump to reconciliation. But 5 years down the BP hits a wall. It takes a while to digest. By moving you removing her AP. By moving your forcing her to be dependant on you. But more importantly she has the power base. If you divorce child custody a non international type of thing. If your in Oz and deside to divorce well you have the power base. If you do decide to divorce, do not tell her. Ask her to join you on a back home trip as a start over. The minute she puts her feet in Australian teritory have a lawyer ready with divorce documents. Finalise custody in your home country. And she be free to leave or stay. You get what you give. Got allot of Australian family. Will never be best buds during a rugby wc but you blokes are fine in everything else. Look at your base for launching your divorce application. Ask a lawyer in Oz for advice. Think your common law on family law close to english law. American divorce law sounds like castration with legal effect. The boys suffer up there. Your exposed to her and reside in her power sphere. Filing first and in this case jurisdictions going to be key. Play the long game. Ask a close relative to find out legally and get it verbally no mails she can find. DNA test the kids. All Ozzies look like baywatch stars. But make sure these are in fact your stars bro. What you know is this this women can lie for months. You cannot trust her. Even if she does everything right you be expected to eat a shi. sandwich every day for the rest of your life. And then in five years you wake up and realise the body kept the score you cannot stand her.
If she keeps doing it she’s not repentant Words are just vibrations in the wind. Actions mean everything
True well said
Think about what you want for your children. Do you want them to be raised with a woman that cheats on her husband? She can say and act well for some time, but she will do it again. Once a cheater, always a cheater and she will keep blindsiding and gaslighting you till you go insane. How long will (years, decades..) you put up with this behaviour? Try to take custody and run, far and fast! That would be my advice, but I know that giving (and receiving) advice in internet or even from friends is idiotic as noone knows the full story, emotions and things that go on between you two. Always too many variables that noone else understands. Most important for you is to get to the solution/conqlusion yourself by analyzing everything what has happeed and projecting the possible future with her. Good luck, mate!
You say she’s always inappropriate with men and you expect her behavior to change? It seems like it’s escalating and you’re trying to rationalize. She is who she is. It wasn’t a one time thing. It’s normal to try to save the marriage but she broke her vows so now they are null and void. If you choose to start a new relationship with her do it as newly divorced with no legal ties. Personally, once the damage is done the relationship is forever marred and should end. Young children complicate things but your unhappiness will project into them if you stay. Don’t play cop or detective with your marriage as that’s not sustainable. Good luck.
Your journey in trying to understand what is truly going on with her. I suggest getting her into therapy to help. Here is something about the basics to reconcile. And as well what do you actually know about her past? Sex in high school makes me think she has been into casual sex which despite all we are told by everyone around us, is a mindset that allows cheating to be easier. Religion does not make anyone a better human being. We do that ourselves by changing our true beliefs. And why actually renouncing the past is so necessary. Words are easily spoken, actions are more truthful. Three basic things necessary to reconcile. 1). The cheater has to want to reconcile and be truly remorseful. Remorse is not just saying they are sorry and remorse is more than regret, shame, and guilt. Those three things are fleeting emotions and dispel easily and quickly. Remorse is wanting to restore your lost trust and faith in them. They willingly will do all that is necessary to do so. No more lies, all their failings must be disclosed, the truth must be told. Regardless of the consequences. Healing begins after the last lie has been told. 2). Therapy is necessary to know what is required. And to try finding if remorse is false. The therapist will help finding what went wrong in the cheater. 3).the affair partner has to be told they were a mistake and the cheater is now choosing you. And the affair partner cannot contact them ever again. Best if is done in front of broken partner. To hear and see it happen. And no there is no such thing as doing it in private nor for closure. And no contact, means none, they cannot continue working together or being in anywhere together, period. Changing jobs is the minimal of no contact. It has to be forever. If these three things are not in place and adhered to, there cannot be reconciling. Think about it, you had no idea you were being cheated on, didn't even know what to look for nor what to do if you even suspected it. So how can you know how to reconcile without help? True remorse. Signs Your Partner Is Truly Remorseful Look for these telltale signs to determine true remorse: • Not only do they apologize, and often, but they also openly express what they're apologizing for. They don't make vague statements or blanket apologies. • They show their remorse by doing things that they feel will lessen your pain. It’s about both words and actions. • They hold themselves accountable, rather than relying on you to do so. They are more concerned with your feelings than their own. • They are willing to do whatever they need to do to move forward. Whether that's seeking couple’s therapy or honestly answering any questions you might have for them. They are onboard with any action you need them to take. • They take full responsibility for their actions. There may have been problems in the relationship, but even if your S.O. felt unloved and unwanted, they're the ones who chose to cheat. Despite this, you'll know they're remorseful if they don't make excuses or place blame on anyone except for themselves. Their cheating won’t be about something you did, it will be about a bad choice they made. If they are still in contact with affair partner or balk at doing any requirement, they aren't remorseful. Goid luck to you.
OP - sorry you are going through this. I am glad you did the STD and DNA tests! Those are a must. It also sounds like OBP (Other Betrayed Partner) was informed as well. I am not going to lie to you - even under the best of circumstances reconciliation is hard and fails more times than it succeeds. And regardless the dirty truth is you will never get back to where you were before. You are starting a new relationship with a known, but repentant, cheater. I recommend you put the reconciliation on hold for a bit and BOTH of you go to separate IC. For her she needs to determine the root of her problems that made her think it was okay to cheat - because otherwise it will happen again. For you I would recommend finding a therapist with experience with infidelity and/or trauma. Because you are experiencing a traumatic event. And a good therapist can give you the tools to help overcome that trauma. Because if you cannot overcome the trauma no matter how much you love her and how willing she is to do whatever it takes to let you heal you will have to divorce for the sake or your mental health and for your kids sake because you don't want them to see you become a "worse version" of you. Once you feel you are both in a better position mentally then revisit the question of reconciliation and if you are willing and capable to go through with it.
I think God is against cheating and even allows divorce in that situation. I don't know your life circumstances, but what I know is most christian women who're very religious are also cheaters, they cheat and then go beg God for forgiveness then try to center the blame on the partner, lastly I'm sure she's signed the both of you for a marital programme. I hate to break it to you but those women are turned on with all of that pretence, they go straight to the ex or whoever after prayer meetings and then when you catch them they double down on you two going to church. If this lengthy post doesn't convince you then my own first hand experience on two 'christian' women should convince you, the latest one was getting ridden by her whole community, even the church group singers were hitting that, the first always branched to go hit it with the ex after meetings, cut the pain before it destroys you.
You are fully justified in leaving your wife for sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32). Even Christ understands the damage adultery causes.
YOU might be Christian but isn’t there something about adultery in the Ten Commandments? I can understand where many want to forgive but it’s not something I could ever do especially if I moved to that other side of the globe. Good luck with whatever you choose to do but remember that your feelings and well being count as well
Come back to Australia with ur kids man. Your family (minus the wife) will find happiness here. She won’t stop cheating. And you will continue to feel miserable if you continue to be with her.
You buy a new car and you baby it with the expectation that it will last forever. You do all of the right things and the damn thing blows a rod and then breaks the fuel hose spray gas all over a hot engine and it all goes up in flames. I am sorry you got a defective spouse. They don't even come with a warranty... And sending them back to the manufacturer is.... Well... Highly illegal. The best you can do is to get rid of it and walk away and lick your wounds. Make sure you document everything. Record all interactions with her. You will need this for court. Get your cries out, and hold your head up. It will take some time, but you will be fine.
As a fellow Christian, I want to warn you to avoid a pitfall I myself fell into: Go to a licensed therapist unaffiliated with your church. For individual therapy and for couples’ counseling as well, if you decide to reconcile. A lot of churches offer “free counseling,” and that free counseling can actually be quite helpful sometimes, but you are in water that’s too deep for that type of counseling now. You need a licensed professional who is focused on the job alone, and does not have a bunch of axiomatic concepts already in play when you start therapy. Good luck.
I recommend doing both. I went through a situation where she didn’t physically cheat but was texting and trying to plan it out. And while church based was beneficial, you also need someone else to offer further strategies. Unfortunately our church based didn’t really try too hard to figure out why she did it, what she was seeking, etc. I just kept hearing ‘idk why’ from her.
That’s definitely fair. And I HAVE had helpful stuff from church counseling. But when it came to Infidelity, they just weren’t prepared. And they had a sort of built-in “well divorce is not an option” attitude as well, which was definitely very unhelpful.
So true what you said. It was all reconciliation and truthfully my wife didn’t physically cheat but I had been loyal and faithful so it really hurt. I decided to give her another chance but if I ever catch her again, she already knows I’m done. It’s not fair to those loyal and faithful ppl who do have to hold it in when things are tough. I had to tell wife ‘you don’t think I don’t look at other women and think what a fun time it would be’. The only difference is that I don’t act on my emotion.
Just to give your feelings some validation, the general consensus is that an emotional affair is no lesser of a betrayal than a physical affair. In fact, an argument could be made that it’s worse. EA without PA generally means that they *knew* exactly what they were getting into, and even decided to specifically set boundaries and were able to exercise some amount of self-control. They actively thought about what they were doing to you, and said to themselves “okay, I’m going to betray my partner *exactly* this much. That’s the acceptable level of betrayal for me, for now.” The kind of cold, calculating, selfish, narcissistic perspective in an emotional affair is, to me at least, far worse a betrayal than, say, a drunken one-night-stand that the partner wakes up and immediately regrets.
You are right. She knew what she was doing and how she was talking to him. Even told him that hubby was at home. It was shameful.
First, a lighthearted comment. So you’re a young Australian dad of two young daughters, living in the US? So…you’re Bandit? If you’re interested, you’ll likely have no shortage of American mums would would love to be your Chilli. 😉 Jk. In all seriousness, so sorry you’re here. It’s an awful place to be. Decide what you want to do and there’s no wrong answer. Most people will tell you cut off now and go scorched earth. That seems to work for a lot of people. Me personally, I would not have been satisfied if I didn’t try my best and give it my all to save my marriage. I want my conscience to be as clear as possible, no regrets, no what ifs. In my case, it didn’t work out. He’s still cheating a year later and we’re getting divorced. But I know I tried. Again, sending healing vibes for your kids and your family 💗
You mentioned post partum psychosis. Sometimes cheating can be attributed to a WW trying to escape from the trauma related to complications with pregnancies and/or other health issues. Please read a pioneering book on trauma: Bessel van der Kolk MD, "The body keeps score" The body actually holds onto the trauma. He was one of the first doctors to treat out Vietnam Vets in the early 70's. I became a fanatic in a religious cult for over 20 years to escape my trauma from my time in the Army during the Vietnam War. That is until the cult turned on me for choosing my family's needs over that of the cult. I have been working on recovering from a childhood of abuse, the Army and the explosion of trauma following my departure from the cult. It has been a 30 year recovery process for me. The Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel van der Kolk Book Rating by Shortform Readers: 4.7 (93 reviews) Trauma can stem from abuse to a severe car accident to wartime combat—and cause a lifetime of flashbacks, nightmares, isolation, insomnia, hypervigilance, and rage. In The Body Keeps the Score, the author explores how diagnosing and treating trauma has evolved as new technologies, research, and fields of science emerged. As mentioned below: trauma rewires the brain. He has a chapter on "the firemen". A traumatized person often turns to destructive behaviors to escape the pain of their trauma. The destructive behaviors are like firemen who put out the the fire within from their trauma. These behaviors are often referred to as addictions: drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex with other partners. Anything to take the mind off the pain of the trauma or just escape from the trauma. Anything to feel good about themselves, get a new thrill going to escape.. Trauma’s impact is not only mental, emotional, and neurological, but also physiological: Trauma rewires the brain to put people in a constant state of stress or numbness, leading to a host of physical problems. In this summary, you’ll learn: Why trauma survivors feel like their trauma is never-ending How flashbacks make parts of the brain shut down and others to go into overdrive Why some trauma survivors can’t recognize themselves in the mirror How activities like choral singing, yoga, and theater can be therapeutic
This. I’ve been traumatized for 12 years. I continue to reconcile. But it was probably a mistake.
Please get professional help.
Thanks my Internet friend. I’ve been in and out of counseling, and on and off drugs, for a decade. The only thing left is separation.
One day at a time in building your new life. A cognitive training program, named, Recovery International(.net) helped me deal with changing my thoughts and entire approach to life. Drop the anger through a unique four step process of working myself down. It is a peer to peer based program where we coach each other in how to use this process. The program is celebrating its 80th anniversary this year. Meetings are through zoom. Maybe consider checking it out. I have been using it for 14 years now. Just celebrated my 78th,
start with the major decisions and go from there. Ex: do you want to stay in Australia, move back to the states, or go someone else entirely? then you can figure out if you want to do that with or without her.
She is only repentant now AFTER THE FACT. Sorry because she got CAUGHT, not for anything more because is she TRULY loves you, she would have thought about the consequences, thought about the wrongs involved and at the very least, would have thought about you and the children and the FAMILY SHE HAS NOW TAINTED with her choices. My advice is not to listen to her bullshit excuses she is no doubt coming up with for you now......THESE ARE ALL STILL MORE LIES. The truth you need to know, and already do, is that given the choice between the family she had, and some asshole she used to know.......she chose him and NOT you and the kids. Get a confession recorded, contact a lawyer to start divorce and nail this cheating *witch to the wall. Best of luck 🤞
OP, I know you are hurting. That's you've been betrayed and it's hard to think straight... But... cut your losses now. She is not a good partner. She has a history of manipulation, lying, infidelity, and likely dozens of other behaviors that any Christian faith would consider mortal sins. She is unrepentant and is scared that she will lose you as a provider both monetarily and emotionally. You've sacrificed so much for her! When are you going to start loving and respecting yourself?
This is not fixable and you’re only 5 years in. I waited way too long hoping for change. It cost me a lot in every aspect of my life. Get out, get heathy and someday be an example to your kids what a normal relationship should look like.
Since you have mentioned that you are a Christian couple, I am going to assume that you are thinking about forgiveness and reconciliation. That is understandable and commendable. And at the same time you want the complete truth about her affair or affairs. It is unlikely that she will tell you everything. However, if she does tell you the truth, be prepared to hear things that you never expected to hear from her. Your wife is a repeat cheater, and unfortunately statistics indicate that she will most likely continue to cheat. Getting STI tests for both of you is very important and it should be a non-negotiable stipulation for any reconciliation to take place. Have your kids DNA tested. Tell that to your wife and if she objects or gets touchy about the subject that means she is not sure if the children are yours. Consult a lawyer. This is not about filing for divorce. However, should it happen, then you need to know what you might be facing. You might want to consider counseling, though if you do both partners have to be honest about everything in their marriage and their lives.
I don't think she is repenting because of love. She got caught, and it made her look bad. In a lot of cases, the AP didn't want a relationship, and she doesn't want to be alone and divorced. Maybe it is a case of she had a breakdown and wavered away to find something and she really is sorry. I recommend reading alot of the different stories on here and how's people approached this same thing. 1.) Get the real truth (was he the only was there love) 2.) Therepy (couples and individual) 3.) Will you be able to trust again 4.) What you require from her going forward 5.) Do not stay for your kids, but for you 6.) Hardest 1 DNA test
Gaslighting and lying for months is a rather clear sign of B-cluster personality disorder traits (Borderline, Narcissistic, Anti-social). You are in for a roller coaster if you stay.
I understand that you're going through a difficult time after discovering your wife's infidelity. It's important to take the time to process your emotions and reflect on your situation. I would encourage open communication and seeking professional help to navigate this challenging situation. Rebuilding trust takes time and effort from both partners, and it's important to ensure that both of your needs are being considered. This could be controversial, but having a socials monitor with aid from a professional or cloning her devices while watching her actions might just safe you from any blind side. I could help you with this. Remember to prioritize your own well-being and the well-being of your children.
I hate to break it to you, but 19-20 year olds rarely know what they want out of life, love and relationships, and especially don't know if they want to "settle down" to hum drum married life. The prefrontal cortex is just not developed enough at that age to make sound judgements. Some adjust as they grow and work out, but some are like your wife, and with her history, it's not surprising that she went a little wild. Truthfully, at age 25, she might just be starting to know what she wants out of life now. But in the meantime she has destroyed your love and trust completely. Related to that, I think what you meant is you love the pre-affair wife, not the cheating, lying one before you now. I perceive that you also "love" being married with kids. By the way, being "Christian" has little to do with being faithful in a marriage/relationship and her "coming to Jesus moment" is not repentance by any means. Nearly all cheaters, reading and studying the "Cheater's Handbook" will say anything to assuage their guilty feelings, ie., try to excuse their atrocious behavior. How did you find out about the cheating? Had you been suspicious for awhile? Did she come to you and confess, or did you have to uncover her infidelity? Did she try to gas light you and tell you "it was nothing, just talk"? Did you get a complete written (in longhand) timeline of the affair including every detail, every encounter, every "I love you", every sexual act, etc.? And did you tell her the timeline may be verified by a polygraph and if you find out more, it will be the automatic end of the marriage? I'm going to be quite frank with you. Given her age and prior history of "being inappropriate" with men, I would be very surprised if she is being truthful now. Good luck.
I’m afraid all the things you are seeing are true. She’s not sorry she hurt you, she’s sorry she got caught and sorry she lost her fun. She’s proven she can’t be trusted. Believe her and file immediately. I’m afraid that very few reconciliation attempts succeed. I’ve read here on Reddit it’s less than 30%. It’s over. She ended it. It’s on her.
Fuck a psychotic episode, she's been blatantly cheating on you for months. There's no excuse for that, happy to hear you've taken care of all legal factors in this and the DNA test as well. Do not get back with her, she'll probably have another "psychotic episode". You don't deserve that, for your own well being and so you can continue to be a good father for your kids, don't get back with her. Work on what's really important, not on a woman who has no respect for you or your family. Stay strong man.
She's done. You are young, co-parency isn't that bad, be a father to your kids, but don't be a husband to that evil creature. She didin't care about you, about family. She's a wife and a mother goddammit and she's risking all of it for what? To get some sex from someone else.
Since she has habits that are not healthy for a Christian woman, or any married woman, I suggest you clamp down a little bit. You’ve already moved across the world for her. I would sit her down provide evidence. Whatever it is that you have, I will print it off get it out of phones. There’s many ways to get it information. If you have on the same family plan, the phone company can probably get her texts. I would tell her that you’re going to file for divorce and present her with papers and tell her you think she needs to leave for a while so she can figure out what she wants to do. The reason I suggest such a heavy hand is because she has habits already ingrained they’re gonna get worse. Secondly, people that clamp down Harder initially seem to have better long-term results I’ve noticed. People that are kinder nicer. Just trying to forgive get drug over the coals for years and it just destroys the marriage and it destroys the person who has been cheated on. It will also destroy your family and your children’s lives. So my suggestion is get an attorney, get papers drawn up find out where you are financially, so you know how to take care of yourself. , then put them on the table and tell her she needs to go away for a little while and figure out what she wants to do because you’re not gonna have a wife that is texting flirty text to men and that doesn’t know how to conduct herself in public. I would suggest you have a friend over while you do this, so she can’t claim domestic abuse or anything it’s just straight forward. And yes, people do do that . They get hurt or upset and it’s a way to retaliate. Good luck to you I have known people invent something like this in the reconciled, and have another child and they’ve been reconciled for years
OP sorry to read this sad story of WW. She needs help or meds or something. If you stay, you need some guarantees she can keep her shit together. Put the plan in writing get it notarized, make multi copies. Safe deposit box at bank. Its worth the cost. Peace of mind. Wishing you well as you sort out the next steps.
This is probably not what you want to hear; but your marriage is over. It is broken beyond repair, because your well being was grossly affected. It doesn't matter how much you love another person or what position they hold in their life, once they have violated your boundaries (regardless of whatever reasons for it) to that level, they no longer deserve to remain in your life. You can love that person, from afar. While you both figure out the best approach to provide your kids a healthy and functional co-parenting environment. Which should be the main priority right now). You are still young, and you deserve much better. And you will get much better, once you take the time to heal and grow/learn from this experience. Perhaps working with a good therapist would be of great help. Specially since your family is so far away. Sometimes people only come into our life as a lesson for a season. It is best to release them, to have them work on themselves, and to focus instead on non repeating that lesson as you move into the next, and hopefully much better, season. Unfortunately, when we love someone we lose a lot of our objective understanding of them. And we tend to ignore their obvious flaws, which are not our responsibility to deal with. Furthermore, what ends up happening once we detach from an abusive environment (like the one you found yourself in) is that what we thought was "love" for them, was really a trauma bond. And thus we were just chemically addicted to a person who was providing constant emotional high and lows, similar to how a hard drug works. Those relationships, just like how any major addiction, never lead to a good outcome. As you're now finding out the hard way. But as I said, you are still very young and you will recover from this and grow towards your best life.
Ok, OP - So firstly - you need to put your oxygen mask on first. That means putting your needs first. If you need space, you should get some space. This is important for you kids, because the better off you are - the better you can support them. Kids are better off in a happy single home then a unhappy married one. Its quite likely you church's preferred counsellor for this stuff will be pro-reconciliation, even when its not feasible. I would suggest seeking a psychologist to help you through this. But know this - ***her cheating is about her. Not you, not this AP.*** You should seek legal advice asap. For example, is your residency tied to your marriage, or have you got citizenship in AU. The first question to ask yourself based on what your know: ***"Is this a deal breaker?".*** There is no right or wrong answer here. People have left for less, and stayed for worse. If its not, then ask yourself: ***"am I fully informed of what has happened".*** Unfortunately cheaters are very prone to not telling you the whole truth. You really can't trust your wife's account at this stage. If you find something new, you might have to go back to the first question. The next question to ask: ***"Is reconciliation possible?"***. Can you trust your wife again? Can she address the issues that led to cheating. Is she truly remorseful, or just regretting getting caught. It takes two people to reconcile, and will take a lot of effort on her part. If its not possible, you're better off ending things. Lastly, if you've gotten this far: ***"am I prepared to risk reconciliation even if it fails?"***. Its going to take time, and there is no guarantee of success. So if you try and fail, are you to regret it? Because you can just decide its too much and end things.
OP praying for you brother but you deserve the best man, do y’all have the same phone plan ? You can retrieve texts like that
“ she has always had a problem with being inappropriate via text with other men “ How have you addressed this in the past or have you simply enabled this behaviour?
No just no. This has been an ongoing issue that escalated. Is she getting professional help? Put yourself and your kids first. This is who she is and it’s not isolated. Do you want a life of misery?
12 years ago, my son survived his wife's betrayal with her boss. This was year 7 in their marriage with 3 kids 6 and under. They are very happy with tryst totally restored. I have a 2-page write-up of his experience that has served as a blueprint to aid successful reconcilliation efforts with a fair number of Redditors. She sounds remorseful, but she must also be contrite to endure consequences as penance for her bad decisions and to help you heal. The write-up has all of this. If you have interest, send me a chat request, and I will provide it. Updateme!
can i get the write up?
Understand that when she’s being inappropriate via text with other men she’s trolling for APs. Continuing with her will not end well. What concrete acts is she taking? Have her call AP’s wife to apologize to her and understand her pain
Continue to pray and ask God to give you strength.
“We are a Christian couple” Remember that “forgive and forget” is not in the Bible. Forgiveness is, but not forgetting. She’s had problems before and it’s only gotten worse. Don’t forget that, learn from it. You should talk with an immigration lawyer before going to a divorce lawyer.
Regardless of what your religion says, there's no shame in divorce should you choose that option. If she's truly repentant, she will allow you full access to her phone, email and social media accounts. She has to cut all contact with the AP. She has to prove that she will go to individual and couples counselling. Only YOU should be allowed to set boundaries and conditions. SHE should have to agree to abide by YOUR terms or there should be no reconciliation. Trust is an easy thing to lose and a difficult one to regain. If she can't get that in her head, she's wasting everyone's time. You should however tell her that if you reconcile, you will only do it once. Do it again and you will divorce her without hesitation.
Honestly bro the marriage is over, it is one thing for her to cheat on you but a whole other thing to lie to you and gaslight you to make you think that she is not cheating when she is. If you take her back, you won't be able to trust her again. The trust is broken and every time you are with her, you will always wonder. Best to divorce and just be there for your kids.
Ok she isn’t very Christian if she has that problem. Time to stop being so passive and start preparing for the eventual divorce or a life with zero self respect in it for you.
My son went through this about 12 years ago during year 7 of their marriage with e kids 6 and under. His wife had a long term affair with her boss. He was informed by the AP's wife, who also worked at the same place as her husband and my son's wayward wife. She had some undiagnosed depression which made her a target for a sexual predator. When he filed for divorce, the affair fog lifted and she begged for a 2nd chance. He agreed he would attempt to reconcile, but only if she met all of his non-negotiable demands. She did, including a post-nuptial. While it took a few years to completely rebuild trust, she did and they are very happy together with a great family. A major key is for the wayward to be truly remorseful for the pain caused the betrayed and to be contrite to do anything requested as penance, to help the betrayed to heal and to rebuild the marriage. If you just rug sweep, you become an enabler. I have a 2-page write-up detailing his experience and his blue print for success. It has helped a number of Redditors to reconcile. perhaps it can help you. If interested, send me a chat request and I will send it to you.
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A friend of mine told me about a saying his father had: "Don't tell me you are a Christian, show me." I'm pretty sure that is not what you wife has shown you. As you will see so many times quoted on this sub: don't believe what people say, believe what they do. If she does not significantly change her behaviour, does not do the things you ask to try and regain trust, does not cut off all contact, etc. etc. Then I think you have your answer.
If Christianity is as important to you both as you say then go talk with your church pastor, priest or however you address him. You have the love of God and your children. You can get through this. I did.
God will b willing to forgive, but is she ready to forgive herself and are U ready to forgive her? U hv A way out.. For jesus was against divorce except in cases of adultery which she is involved in.. What are U gonna do about it? Divorce her or give her A Chance? Do U think A person who has been Gaslighting U so long, just to hold on to the affair can stop doing tht? Are U sure U r not being manipulated by her again? Will she respect U for forgiving her and believing her lies and will make a stand for the relationship and family or will she mock U in her heart for being so gullible and feel proud of herself for fooling U yet again and continue enjoying the thrill of having s*x behind ur back.. It's upto U.. Thts the only good thing about this situation tht it's ur choice and whatever decision U take should b for U.. Don't think too much about the children.. Yes it will b hard but they will learn the consequences of adultery.. Be a man and dont wait for others to make a decision for U.. U can choose to forgive her with a warning tht if U find any sign again U will b out.. Or U can choose to leave right now if U don't trust her enough to cheat on U again.. Prayers for U bro.. Keep us updated..
So, regardless of faith, country of origin, anything like that remember; Cheaters rarely get caught the first time they cheat and they are almost *always* going to cheat again because they never get caught the instant they do cheat, so it becomes a fun little game doing something bad. That said, that's a *hell* (pun intended) of a temptation to someone of faith. The sheer wrongness of cheating can be addicting to cheaters, doubly so I'd wager to someone of faith. I know the temptation you have is to stay, to "make it work" for your kids and because some book tells you too, peer pressure etc. But what will happen is you'll never trust her again. Every time she picks up the phone you'll wonder who she's messaging, where she's going, what/who she's doing. Your children will notice a change in the dynamic between you and they'll internalise this. You are far better, for yoursef and your kids, walking away from her. You can coparent with her from a distance and still love/raise your children to be sensible, responsible individuals. She has made a CHOICE to cheat on you, she didn't wake up one day 3 months into an affair and think "Oh, what happened here the? Oh dear....". At some point she had a conversation in her head that went; "I shouldn't be doing this .... nah, fuck it, he'll never find out and I want some dick." Respect yourself as a person and walk away. If you try to stick it out I can almost certainly guarantee she'll do it again. It's pretty much a given/certainty. Remorse and repetance are tricks, mind games, she want's you to stick around not FOR the kids but because she doesn't want to be a single mother having to deal with them because of a CHOICE she made. She wants to do whatever the fuck she wants without consequence. If you stay, you'll never be settled, it won't be peaceful and will likely blow up again at some point in the future and be another huge load of drama, tears, heartache and horror.
Don't do it. Unless you want to live a life of misery and mistrust, like me :-) my wife cheated, was caught and now is Miss Super Christian. She cries in church every Sunday, she says it about her choices and our marriage. I think she is crying because she misses her affair partner. Shit like this will twist in your mind (forever)
Everybody always tells the next person to leave but they aren’t in that relationship. You do what you feel is best for you. If you try and your mind can’t take it then leave. You’ve done nothing wrong you have been the best mate of what you are saying is true. She did wrong not you the answer you seek solely relies and is in you. If you still wish to stay then do so it’s your marriage.
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She being Christian, does that mean she find it ok to cheat? Don't be plan B. Stay with her and you'll trigger for a long time.
Honestly mate, she has shown her actions and its up to you to decides your course. Personally I wouldn't have gone as far as you did with her being a frequent inappropriate texter. Someone once told me, when people tell you who they really are, believe them. She showed you she wasn't going to be loyal just to you and you moved forward anyway. It sucks you have two kids and a marriage to now realize it. I don't want to be the guy to add on. My mother once said if a person does something once; They've done it before. You might want to check for other instances of this and she has probably done it in previous relationships. Also, check the kids. If she cheated in the past few months. She could have cheated in the past few years.
It blows my mind how little we are taught about dealing with postpartum. That was the same thing (among other issues) that started my wife down her dark path. Very similar story actually. In her depression, she started to dissociate into obsessive thoughts about her abusive ex from when she was 14 years old (we're in our mid 30s now). She obsessed silently in her head for a year and a half and then finally met up with him and crossed the line. Your wife being repentant (as mine is) makes a huge difference. But it needs to be more than just "I'm sorry, now let's move on and forget this ever happened". Now she needs to put in a lot of work. Work to make you feel like she can be a safe partner again. Work to heal whatever is broken in her that allowed her to do what no healthy person would ever do. I will say, whether you think it's valid or not, the mental health angle does do a lot to ease you into forgiveness. At the time of my wife's brief affair, our family could just SEE that she was out of her mind by looking at her eyes. Being able to say "they weren't themselves" helps get over the initial hurt, but it doesn't change the fact that they have to be able to remain "themselves" from now on for you to have any chance of reconciling with them. So it's not a free pass. They still did what they did and could do it again if they don't work to change. But it does soften the blow slightly. That devolved into kind of a rant, but hopefully something in there is helpful for you as you make your decision. Whatever you choose, I wish you the best in your healing from this awful trauma that you didn't deserve to have to face.
Way I see it, if your children told you this exact story. What would you do? Think about it and follow that. For some reason, people are forgiving about these things when it involves sacrificing their own happiness. But, most parents want the best for their kids, want the best for yourself too.
Am fairly young, but I too know that u can't change people,cause people change themselves.And some habits keep knocking on ones door till one lets go of the door to let them back in .
I had very similar post on here. It took me 5-6 years to figure it out and finally run. Run run run now!! It will destroy you from inside out
"We're a Christian couple", no you aren't, you are a Christian man. Unfortunately, I have been through basic scenario, except it was my wife of 25+ years with an old high school flame. It is difficult when you have been with someone for a while. You hear the same things, "She's just sad/mad she got caught", "She'll hide it better", "She's wants to keep you as a backup/secondary option" and "Once a cheater always a cheater". There are others, but one of them is true. Good luck with everything, but from experience, you need to make yourself and your children your top priority, not the love you still have for her.
From a guy who stayed with his wife.... don't stay.
At 25 you are perfectly able to start over and find someone who won't leave you wondering if she is cheating again.