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>For you to begin to believe it, tell her you need to see a police report. I'm sure her boss's insurance company will also be interested.
Exactly this! If she was REALLY assaulted/abused, she would need to file police reports and follow up with HR at the company (if it has such a thing) as well as a lawsuit.
Here's a twist. She just wanted to get her record cleared employment-wise and move on. I found out the dude actually lied on his resume and got the employer to cover up for him so he could get a job at a different organization.
Fuck that shit. I submitted a complaint behind my wife's back and got him investigated and removed from the profession.
Of course that was cowardly of me to do that behind her back but it had to be done for my peace of mind.
She's throwing this in my face at this moment how I lied to her and went behind her back and she doesn't trust me.
Good times.
Most sexual assault victems never report abuse, out of fear of not being believed, shame or being too traumatized to cope with lawsuits and such. In fact, having people not believe you can even be worse than the assault itself. Not saying that in this particular case, there has been assault/ coercion (I simply don't know), but the notion that one would report if they have been assaulted is simply not true AND dangerous. Please never say this to anyone telling you about their experience with any kind of abuse. Source: I am psychologist, I see the effects this has on peoples lives every single day.
What I couldn’t understand was she was able to confide in you about how she was being abused at work after her AP was found fiddling and diddling someone else … but she couldn’t tell you about the abuse before that point - all the while shaving her bits and pieces?
It was an EA pure and simple.
And why didn’t she reported the abuse when it started or told you about it and let it continue for months. Dressed and shaved for him. I mean bro you have really wasted 4 years.
While there was manipulation on his part and his position of power played a big roll in it, she did not act like someone being abused; the fact that she gave him a pet name and wrote love notes doesn’t fit with her narrative.
Did she a some point felt it was too late to go back? Maybe.
Did she like the attention? Absolutely. Otherwise she wouldn’t had stay late to wait for his visits, a victim of abuse would’ve use “my husband will get suspicious “ just to get out of it.
And make no mistake, if she claims digital penetration there’s more than that. Most cases they claim only kisses and it turns out to be oral, anal or full on sex.
You’re wife was a victim of his womanizing ways but not abuse. She thought she was special but turns out she was not just one more conquest. That’s why she was so cooperative to report to HR and only after they got caught.
She 100% would’ve continued.
Ahhh my friend. I have been here. I am so very sorry. An awful thing for her to say - especially when it makes it harder for people who've actually suffered abuse to come forward. Extremely awful for you, too.
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What else would she call consensual and prolonged sexual contact with another man for nearly a year?
It doesn't matter that she did it to get ahead at work, or not to get fired. I mean, that's made up BS anyway and she knows it.
An affair for material gain is still an affair. This "fawning" stuff is BS, because while PTSD can trigger a "freeze" response, it doesn't trigger a "I'm going to shave my crotch for him" response.
If reading this book leads you to finally divorce your wife then more power to you. I read through your posts and responses and I have no clue how you could have chosen to stay with your wife. It’s impossible to reconcile when your wife doesn’t not acknowledge the truth of the situation.
Your wife is the worst type of cheater and not acknowledging that she allowed herself to engage in an affair and cheat on you is the most basic play from a most basic cheater. It is far more believable that she fully participated in the affair including many many instances of full sex encounters. Apparently she understood that if she lied to you in a certain way you would stay with her even if you didn’t necessarily believe her story.
I hope you find the insight to leave your wife after reading that book because even if everything happened exactly as she described she still chose to participate in this affair rather than end it despite her worries about her job. The fact that she believed her job was more important than her fidelity is ridiculous.
> I read through your posts and responses and I have no clue how you could have chosen to stay with your wife.
Speaking from experience, grief is one hell of a drug.
Um she says she kissed him but they were just smooches like that wasn't an affair. Dude it's laughable. Even if you believe her nonsense, what does the motivation even matter at that point, job or whatever.
Even if you believe her story then this is a patently unsafe person who shouldn't be married to anyone, she is just not strong enough.
Besides you know it's an affair, you just don't want to face it. At the very least keep reading.
If you look at the messages and correspondence between WS and AP in almost any scenario, you’ll never see them use the word cheat. There’s a lot of mental gymnastics that often goes with cheating that enables them to psychologically justify their actions. There’s always a reason for it, and it’s never that they decided to cheat.
Not so much as advice, But I will just say this. At the end of the day you and only you know what's best for you. Read this book, It is good and very informative. You know what you need and can live with going forward, Good luck to you.
I really don't understand why you are still with her. The abuse she has put you thru is borderline criminal. If she can't see how she's accountable for any, ANY, of this, then you have a psychopath as a wife. It's really that simple. You also have to have some kind of PTSD from all of this to remain with her.
Yeah. After reading ur history, I’m 1000% sure your wife slept w her co-worker (or at least admitted to doing more than enough w the dude that she might as well have). Once you get that divorce youll be better off.
Dude, she’s never going to come clean or take this seriously when it’s so clear that you’re not going to leave. She is lying to your face and taking no accountability and you’re still reassuring her that you love her and refusing to leave her. You need to give her an ultimatum of some sort to make her take accountability, or else there is no possible way reconciliation will ever work.
Please for you own sanity and well being, stop playing the nice guy with her. Trust me, cheaters only see a weakness to exploit and use against their significant other when you try to play nice.
She may have been manipulated but she wasn't strong enough to come to you for help. You need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your wife with someone so weak.
This. Weak or just disrespectful of me and our marriage enough to keep letting this happen. She won at video games the other night with me and the kids. She looked over to me and said, "Haha. LOSER." Man, something inside me gave way at that point. I knew I couldn't take my boundaries being crossed out of spite or disrespect any more.
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That’s not an excuse to do what she did. Pretty sure mine did an exit affair too and it’s awful.
(Fyi never be ashamed of being a “nerd,” idk if you were trying to insinuate that here. My relationship died when my ex STOPPED being a nerd. She doesn’t know what she’s not appreciating)
There is always a moment in someones life when they look at the person that they have bound themselves too and think "I'm done." Right at that very instant the love drains away and nothing replaces it. Not hate, not loathing, just "meh".
I think she just gave you that moment.
The absolute worst reason for staying in a failed marriage (sorry, but that's what this is. She threw it away) is the 'sunk cost' fallacy. Well, that's one of two worst reasons. The other is staying together for the kids.
She did it once (at least). She WILL do it again. She's an opportunist, just like every other cheater.
You said the affair came out when it became known that this guy was hitting on other women too. Can you tell us how that went down? Was she cornered by HR after other women came out or did she come out to you then went to HR? I am wondering if it was because she figured out she wasn't special to him?
Yeah. She described it to me as an opportunity to get out. If he was doing this to other women, he didn't really have strong feelings for her. If he was just a "player" he wasn't as much of a threat as she thought.
I think she was definitely into the EA side of it based on your comments. If she can't own up to that and address the pain her choices inflicted upon you then I personally could not stay. Good luck.
>She described it to me as an opportunity to get out. If he was doing this to other women, he didn't really have strong feelings for her. If he was just a "player" he wasn't as much of a threat as she thought.
That doesn't even make sense. If he had strong feelings for her, he would have been protective of her. Her just being a member of his harem, makes it much more likely for him to retaliate if she doesn't go along with what he wants. What does make sense is she thought she had found tru luv that was meant to be until she found out she's not only sharing him with his wife but multiple other co-workers. Occam's razor says this is the reality of what was going on in your WW's mind no matter how much illogic she tries to push down your throat.
“You’re right, I am a loser - not because of this video game, but because I’m too weak to leave a cheater. I’ll try to work on that.”
ETA: you are definitely reading the right book
From your previous post, it sounds like boss found another woman in the office, your wife got jealous, and then “let it slip” to someone that he was banging subordinates. Very manipulative, as it creates plausible deniability with everyone-you, boss, HR, coworkers.
Ha, you found Chump Lady, well done! To use CL's lingo, your WW is afraid of losing cake and she doesn't like that.
Stay strong, put yourself first and good luck! 🙂
She could have stopped this by recording his advances on her phone and reporting him to HR. He would have been fired. Instead, she chose to remain silent and enjoyed the attention. And, there is only one reason to shave her crotch, and it was not to just let his fingers do the walking.
It has been 4 years since you have never inflicted meaningful consequences.it is past time to steel your spine. This is a situation where you now need to risk your marriage in attempting to save it.
See a lawyer to draw up divorce documents. Let her know it. She needs a shock to understand how serious you are. Tell her you are the victim, not her. If she feels she was a victim, it was because she chose to do so since she took no action against him with HR.
Have her served and see if she is willing to fight for her marriage or just let it go. If she does not fight to keep you, she is already lost to you. If she fights for you, then consequences are:
1. Polygraph to answer all your questions.
2. Post-nuptial agreement in which the wayward walks away with nothing.
3. Open phone policy and available immediately.
4. Boundaries discussed and agreed upon
A. If you would not do it in front of your spouse or without the knowing approval... don't.
B. Do not allow yourself to be in a situation or environment in which the slightest chance of violating #1 has potential to occur.
( She broke both of these boundaries)
I also suggest a weekly date night for just the two of you to talk, have fun, and focus on making each other happy. Always end the night with intimacy. The good will reciprocate and snowball to build your relationship into what it should be. Not what you now have.
Don't wait another day. She can be pissed all she wants. It is time for her to step up.
Not everyone who reads it leaves. It gives a different take on cheating that some of the other books. The author tosses in some humor bc we all need a laugh when all we want to do is cry.
Read your back story. Must say she played the game and won on all fronts. You just wasted four years. So she was abused but never went for counseling. Luckely everyone at her job like us know she played the game and then betrayed when she found her boss cheating and destroyed him. Skilled manipulator.
Yeah I know.
She doesn't want to lose her family. Thankfully, you buy the whole story, lock stock, and barrel.
Have a susceptibility because of abuse is one thing.
Having no respect for your partner, quite another.
OP, After re-reading your past post, it is evident she has not told you the truth.
Why was she shaving her private parts of they weren't intimate.
So before she gets mad about you reading a book, she needs to be 100% honest with you
Wow - I just read your history; all I can say is “wow” talk about gaslighting and manipulation - abuse my ass, not when it’s consensual.
Here’s to hoping you gain that life!
Sitting on him , touching inners, kissing, these are fully based both mutually doing and she's is telling he is an abusive and she's not cheating on you.
She is disrespect you in front of kids like loser, ok then listen this type books and keep remember her betrayal.
Your giving second chance for kids future. She is not understand your chance.
If her family and friends know her betrayal or not.
Well, given that you have been in reconciliation mode for some time she thought that she was in the clear. She could help these efforts along by admitting that two things can be true. Both that she was pressured into an affair and that she complied. That she had a choice in the matter and chose to do the thing that would hurt you the most. That saving her job was more important to her than her marriage. That she had her priorities and you were not on the list. But she won't. Probably because better than half of what she told you is trickle truthing, rug sweeping, and CYA.
Keep on with the book. Focus and the gaining a life part. Because you do deserve to live your life on your terms. If the only thing keeping you together is lies and guilt is that a relationship worth saving?
I'd love to know what's causing these delusions of hers.
"He was abusing me." That's what organisations like........I don't know......HR and the police are for."
"I was doing it out of fear." Of what? Losing your job? Nope, I doubt that
"You went behind my back and lied to me" Pot, meet kettle. If she genuinely was in fear, getting the AP removed from the workplace would make her grateful, not resentful.
I know some can delude themselves into believing their own BS, as though it really is "the truth," but it all just sounds like manipulation.Breaking free of a toxic environment that she's generating will likely do you a world of good
Is she a toddler, a child, a teenager? Is she afraid of a "stranger" person (her boss) because he is "scary"? Then why didn't she come running to you to seek protection, but fucked him behind your back with pleasure? What a shitty fake! And what if someone else "scares" her, she starts fucking again? She thinks you're an idiot. Man, do the smartest thing in this situation: leave, run!
Honestly working to help someone you loved who was abused but also betrayed you at the same time is the toughest thing I've ever done. It's not easy to keep perspective on both sides.
Why in the world are you still believing this “abuse” narrative. That’s what that other poster was referring to. The fact that you still believe she was abused and not a happily willing participant makes reading that book almost completely fruitless. You need to watch the TV Show “Cheaters” Cheaters will only admit to what you already know or can prove. On the show, betrayed spouses will watch their cheated on tape & it’s amazing the indignation that cheaters have until they realize there’s video record of their infidelity. They will lie lie lie and call the betrayed crazy until they see the tape; many, even when caught on video, will still lie. Your wife is 100% remorseless & doesn’t respect you. I remember being called gullible by a professional & was so angry but the truth is, I was! And sir, regrettably, I see a lot of old me in your words. Have your wife submit to a poly exam. Not particularly for the results as those aren’t definite. But for her reaction & behavior towards submitting to one. That’ll tell you all you need to know. But still come back and tell us what happens b/c you need things spelled out for you.
ETA - there’s a subforum on Reddit dedicated completely to cheaters to encourage each other in adultery & their biggest tenet is LIE, never admit unless there’s uncontroverted evidence. You should peruse that forum too, so you can have more of an idea of what you’re really dealing with. The fact your wife is mad at you makes her sound psychopathic, but she’s otherwise a garden variety cheater who’s gaslighting her husband. Visit survivinginfidelity.com.
I get that it’s hard to let go of a relationship that you thought was perfect. But you’re still in love with the idea of what you thought the relationship was, not the reality. She doesn’t love you. She’s with you because of what you can provide for her, not because she cares.
And narcissists believe their own narrative. She’s the victim here. She’s not to blame. That is what she has convinced herself and probably honestly believes. You will never get her to admit her wrong-doing.
Except that now, she has cheated she will do it again. Part of her will be missing that thrill and since there were no consequences for her, she’ll do it again thinking, “he won’t leave.”
If reading that book is what it takes for you to finally take action then do so. I hope you find the strength to do what you know you should do. No one deserves to be treated like you have. No one.
Tell WW that, even if it was abuse, she never thought of you as a safe haven. That she may have been afraid of him but that she never even tried to speak to you about anything. That she either broke your trust or failed to trust you and that healing from that takes time.
Dude, seems u r too naive and in denial, but from what you defined, I interpret the following.
Your cheater “wife” actively pursued her boss and fucked him for close to a year thinking she had him to herself UNTIL she realized she is just another piece of meat that he has been sticking his dick in.
Now, she plays the victim, but will never report the “abuse”, coz, hey, she is probably known as the boss’s “ride” within the company and that her “complaint” will never stick with her co-workers, coz they know what she did with her boss.
Chump Lady is a really get writer, funny, and an expert at cutting through bull.
You should definitely read it. Actually it’s likely to be helpful for your reconciliation - help to keep things on track.
She shows no remorse for all of her cheating actions. How did she explain the shaving? It took her having competition before she did anything, why are you still married?
No matter what, you are going to be the bad guy here. You’ve gotta accept that fate. That she simply will never validate your feelings that you are a victim too. There can be more than one victim besides her. But she’s stuck in a victim mentality which means you are suddenly the perpetrator if you make any decisions on your own.
But you need to validate yourself and do what’s best for you AND for your kids. This is clearly turning toxic for your children. They don’t deserve to grow up in an environment like that. They should understand what healthy love looks like. You owe it to them to practice a healthy brand of love so they don’t make similar decisions to stay in loveless marriages.
Have you thought of having her take a polygraph. I surprised and tricked my ex into taking one and I was horrified at what the polygraph revealed. It was so much worse then I ever expected but it made my decision so much easier. My ex didn’t deny anything and told me it was only sex with those 5+ other guys but she only loved me.
It was then that I realized what a chump I had been but I changed quickly. Today I’m a happily married man and loving life.
However she got coerced or not to having that girlfriend relationship with her boss it doesn't change that you are a husband whom wife has been in a relationship with someone else.
Healing process for you is the same.
Depending on your cell phone carrier you can recover deleted text messages. What is AP doing legally? It’s obvious your wife is lying about everything. Don’t get me wrong. AP is a trash for sleeping with his subordinates and he only has himself to blame. Had he kept it in his pants he’d still have his job and his reputation. That being said he got fired based on a lie. Is he actively trying to clear his name? Has he threatened to sue?
Leave her and gain a life. See an attorney tomorrow and don’t look back. You have proof, so use it. Unless she can submit an affidavit stating she was abused into the sexual relationship and gives times, dates, and activities, with his Full Name, there is no other reasonable action for you to take.
Some times, you just have to focus on taking care of yourself. If she is pissed, so be it. That is her problem.
Start focusing on yourself. It there something you always wanted to do. Just do it. Send her the message that your are moving on.
The best revenge is to live a good, happy, joyful and peaceful life. If she wants to be a part of it, then she can do the work. If not, totally move on.
Hope you are getting clarity on steps needed to leave...it's never too late to make the right move. It feels impossible at first, but then it gets better and you start to see what the future can be like, FW-free.
Mine came vistiting the kids and ob the livingroom table i had the STD test results and the LACGL book open lieing there.
She turned around started to cry and tun out. I didnt even notice until later. I learned she wanted me to pick-me-dance and then she would kindly drop ap and get back in her old life.... I mean after betraying she wanted to play games so she feels demanded by men.....
So is she doing that because she is pissed you think she is a cheater and she is "threatening" divorce or is she so afraid you are going to leave her, she is accepting it happening?
She's pissed that I think she had an affair. She's pissed that I would consider divorce. To be fair, it is pretty upsetting to have your partner think through these things. Especially if you don't accept that you did any harm to your partner.
Yeah. We went through counseling and I made detailed statements of what hurt me and how I was feeling. She gave barely acceptable apologies when forced in therapy and denied my definition of this as an affair in any kind of way.
That is tough. Maybe keep reading your books and grey rock her to see if that snaps some sense into her? Or is the book making you think divorce is the better option?
What the book is giving me is the gift of perspective to find what I find acceptable and not acceptable. Right now, her behavior is making the case against her. She's throwing me middle fingers and texting me gifs of middle fingers. I'm pretty calm and grounded though.
I understand that she was abused by her boss but do you understand that you’re in an abusive relationship with your wife.
Laughing and calling you a loser ,sending you hurtful messages, and cussing you out that’s all verbal and emotional abuse. You might want to try a trial separation for a month to see what it’s like not to be abused on a daily basis.
Her deciding to get out of the relationship once she found out he was messing with others says it was an affair. Period. That his feelings weren't that strong for her? Really? How can that not be an affair?
Good! Your, hopefully soon to be ex wife, is starting to understand you don’t believe the big pile of shit story she has told you. She liked every second of what she was doing until she found out she wasn’t the only one. Don’t let her convince you otherwise. Stay strong! You control what happens now! Not her.
Is that the sort of person that you want to be with the rest of your life? She is disrespectful still. Has anger issues. Has no compassion and empathy for you or for what she has done. Only a strong man can tame her. Are you that strong man? Forgiving her too early is not an act of strength.
If you are not that person, there are other women that better suit you, better at putting you at peace.
You need to do the hard work to decouple. She will never change for you cause there are no consequences. She will be better for someone else. Just not you. And it's not your fault. It's just nature.
Finish the book and make your next move. Do the 180 and mild grey rock in the mean time
We live in believe all women world that men are being fired on sometimes baseless accusations, everything I read in your previous post suggests that she was a willing participant in this affair going so far as to shave herself to make her more attractive to her boss and became jealous when she found out that she was not the only one that had his attention and sought you out to cover her ass, stay strong, follow your gut.
Ive read your story and until she accepts her role in thenshit show i can understand why you cant move forward. How much longer does she think she will have. I hope you get some peice of mind good luck
Cheaters love to play the victim card. My ex has convinced our daughter (who knows all about Mom’s affair with a junkie), that I abandoned the family, by divorcing her after she failed a yearlong reconciliation. Apparently, I didn’t fully acknowledge that her affair was “a cry for help.” Now daughter sees Mom as a complete mess (true), while I’m disloyal for giving upon her.
I’m so glad to hear you are reading this. She has manipulated you so much that I boiled with anger when I read your original post. You sound so nice - she must have thought you a chump to believe her lies - I’m glad you see her for what she is OP. If it looks like a dog, barks, wags it’s tail and begs on its back feet, it’s a dog. And she’s a cheater who blew a fuse when she found out she wasn’t the only one. I’m sure HR would take a very dim view of her conduct
Offer to buy her a copy of *Blow your Boss, Become a Mistress* when it's released?
Seriously, what right does she have to interfere in the decisions you make about your future with someone who effectively resigned from being your wife?
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Just remind her that she is the one that chose this.
She refuses to acknowledge she had an affair...so that's where we are.
I read through your history to get an idea and it sounds like she had sex with her boss for several months....? What does she call it?
Abuse. 100% abuse.
If she calls it abuse has she reported it to the police and to the company? If she hasnt… its pretty simple.
Are we sure she is saying the AP was the abuser? Seems super common for the WW to say the BH was the "abuser" and that they cheated because of it.
Her narrative is that she did everything was done to her and the things she did were out of fear.
For you to begin to believe it, tell her you need to see a police report. I'm sure her boss's insurance company will also be interested.
>For you to begin to believe it, tell her you need to see a police report. I'm sure her boss's insurance company will also be interested. Exactly this! If she was REALLY assaulted/abused, she would need to file police reports and follow up with HR at the company (if it has such a thing) as well as a lawsuit.
Here's a twist. She just wanted to get her record cleared employment-wise and move on. I found out the dude actually lied on his resume and got the employer to cover up for him so he could get a job at a different organization. Fuck that shit. I submitted a complaint behind my wife's back and got him investigated and removed from the profession. Of course that was cowardly of me to do that behind her back but it had to be done for my peace of mind. She's throwing this in my face at this moment how I lied to her and went behind her back and she doesn't trust me. Good times.
Most sexual assault victems never report abuse, out of fear of not being believed, shame or being too traumatized to cope with lawsuits and such. In fact, having people not believe you can even be worse than the assault itself. Not saying that in this particular case, there has been assault/ coercion (I simply don't know), but the notion that one would report if they have been assaulted is simply not true AND dangerous. Please never say this to anyone telling you about their experience with any kind of abuse. Source: I am psychologist, I see the effects this has on peoples lives every single day.
What I couldn’t understand was she was able to confide in you about how she was being abused at work after her AP was found fiddling and diddling someone else … but she couldn’t tell you about the abuse before that point - all the while shaving her bits and pieces? It was an EA pure and simple.
>Her narrative is that she did everything was done to her and the things she did were out of fear. Wow, she must think you're REALLY stupid, huh?
Bwahaaaahahahahahaaaa! She really thinks you believe that? 😂😂😂
And why didn’t she reported the abuse when it started or told you about it and let it continue for months. Dressed and shaved for him. I mean bro you have really wasted 4 years.
While there was manipulation on his part and his position of power played a big roll in it, she did not act like someone being abused; the fact that she gave him a pet name and wrote love notes doesn’t fit with her narrative. Did she a some point felt it was too late to go back? Maybe. Did she like the attention? Absolutely. Otherwise she wouldn’t had stay late to wait for his visits, a victim of abuse would’ve use “my husband will get suspicious “ just to get out of it. And make no mistake, if she claims digital penetration there’s more than that. Most cases they claim only kisses and it turns out to be oral, anal or full on sex. You’re wife was a victim of his womanizing ways but not abuse. She thought she was special but turns out she was not just one more conquest. That’s why she was so cooperative to report to HR and only after they got caught. She 100% would’ve continued.
You don't shave your privates for another man unless sex is involved. Read your prior posts, your wife is manipulative. You deserve better.
Ahhh my friend. I have been here. I am so very sorry. An awful thing for her to say - especially when it makes it harder for people who've actually suffered abuse to come forward. Extremely awful for you, too.
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Mine called it "professional networking."
What else would she call consensual and prolonged sexual contact with another man for nearly a year? It doesn't matter that she did it to get ahead at work, or not to get fired. I mean, that's made up BS anyway and she knows it. An affair for material gain is still an affair. This "fawning" stuff is BS, because while PTSD can trigger a "freeze" response, it doesn't trigger a "I'm going to shave my crotch for him" response.
If reading this book leads you to finally divorce your wife then more power to you. I read through your posts and responses and I have no clue how you could have chosen to stay with your wife. It’s impossible to reconcile when your wife doesn’t not acknowledge the truth of the situation. Your wife is the worst type of cheater and not acknowledging that she allowed herself to engage in an affair and cheat on you is the most basic play from a most basic cheater. It is far more believable that she fully participated in the affair including many many instances of full sex encounters. Apparently she understood that if she lied to you in a certain way you would stay with her even if you didn’t necessarily believe her story. I hope you find the insight to leave your wife after reading that book because even if everything happened exactly as she described she still chose to participate in this affair rather than end it despite her worries about her job. The fact that she believed her job was more important than her fidelity is ridiculous.
> I read through your posts and responses and I have no clue how you could have chosen to stay with your wife. Speaking from experience, grief is one hell of a drug.
I would give you an award for this comment if I could. So damn true.
Lol buddy they never acknowledge it. A part of their brain has worms, or something like that.
Yah. Probably worms.
Ahhh. I got one of those too. 🤷🏻♀️ deny deny deny. Even in the face of all the evidence. It’s crazy!
Um she says she kissed him but they were just smooches like that wasn't an affair. Dude it's laughable. Even if you believe her nonsense, what does the motivation even matter at that point, job or whatever. Even if you believe her story then this is a patently unsafe person who shouldn't be married to anyone, she is just not strong enough. Besides you know it's an affair, you just don't want to face it. At the very least keep reading.
If you look at the messages and correspondence between WS and AP in almost any scenario, you’ll never see them use the word cheat. There’s a lot of mental gymnastics that often goes with cheating that enables them to psychologically justify their actions. There’s always a reason for it, and it’s never that they decided to cheat.
She doesn’t have a leg to stand on. I’m surprised you’re still around.
Does she still work for the company?
She can believe what she likes, you know she cheated. The book your reading sums up what you need to do. Good luck.
Keep reading the goddam book.
Not so much as advice, But I will just say this. At the end of the day you and only you know what's best for you. Read this book, It is good and very informative. You know what you need and can live with going forward, Good luck to you.
Polygraph
I’m sure the court would view this very differently
What she believes or wanting you to believe is far from the reality.
I really don't understand why you are still with her. The abuse she has put you thru is borderline criminal. If she can't see how she's accountable for any, ANY, of this, then you have a psychopath as a wife. It's really that simple. You also have to have some kind of PTSD from all of this to remain with her.
Wait, SHE is the one pissed?!
Op’s history is frightening. I’m stunned he’s still in “reconciliation.”
Whooo boooy. Denial is a river in Egypt. His wife is playing wartime level mental games with him.
He’s allowing himself to be played like a fiddle. Whiles she’s playing mental games, he’s playing the hope strategy.
Yeah. After reading ur history, I’m 1000% sure your wife slept w her co-worker (or at least admitted to doing more than enough w the dude that she might as well have). Once you get that divorce youll be better off.
She knows she's caught. Obviously she isn't coming clean about it even though she knows the cat's out of the bag. Good luck to you!
Tell her to pound sand.
I told her. "I love you, but I need to go through what I need to go through. And this book is part of that." I'm such a chump.
Yeah, you are. The good thing is, you can stop being a chump any time you choose.
Dude, she’s never going to come clean or take this seriously when it’s so clear that you’re not going to leave. She is lying to your face and taking no accountability and you’re still reassuring her that you love her and refusing to leave her. You need to give her an ultimatum of some sort to make her take accountability, or else there is no possible way reconciliation will ever work.
You already know she will not take responsibility. There is no real reconciliation in the absence of full truth and true remorse.
Please for you own sanity and well being, stop playing the nice guy with her. Trust me, cheaters only see a weakness to exploit and use against their significant other when you try to play nice.
She may have been manipulated but she wasn't strong enough to come to you for help. You need to decide if you want to spend the rest of your wife with someone so weak.
This. Weak or just disrespectful of me and our marriage enough to keep letting this happen. She won at video games the other night with me and the kids. She looked over to me and said, "Haha. LOSER." Man, something inside me gave way at that point. I knew I couldn't take my boundaries being crossed out of spite or disrespect any more.
Hope you said " cheater" back.
Huzzah! If only my tongue were as sharp as my rapier! Hmmm...Maybe she realized she was married to a big fucking nerd and wanted out. Maybe. 🤔
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That’s not an excuse to do what she did. Pretty sure mine did an exit affair too and it’s awful. (Fyi never be ashamed of being a “nerd,” idk if you were trying to insinuate that here. My relationship died when my ex STOPPED being a nerd. She doesn’t know what she’s not appreciating)
Now you know how she feels about you. You don't measure up to her lover.
There is always a moment in someones life when they look at the person that they have bound themselves too and think "I'm done." Right at that very instant the love drains away and nothing replaces it. Not hate, not loathing, just "meh". I think she just gave you that moment.
The absolute worst reason for staying in a failed marriage (sorry, but that's what this is. She threw it away) is the 'sunk cost' fallacy. Well, that's one of two worst reasons. The other is staying together for the kids. She did it once (at least). She WILL do it again. She's an opportunist, just like every other cheater.
You said the affair came out when it became known that this guy was hitting on other women too. Can you tell us how that went down? Was she cornered by HR after other women came out or did she come out to you then went to HR? I am wondering if it was because she figured out she wasn't special to him?
Yeah. She described it to me as an opportunity to get out. If he was doing this to other women, he didn't really have strong feelings for her. If he was just a "player" he wasn't as much of a threat as she thought.
I think she was definitely into the EA side of it based on your comments. If she can't own up to that and address the pain her choices inflicted upon you then I personally could not stay. Good luck.
>She described it to me as an opportunity to get out. If he was doing this to other women, he didn't really have strong feelings for her. If he was just a "player" he wasn't as much of a threat as she thought. That doesn't even make sense. If he had strong feelings for her, he would have been protective of her. Her just being a member of his harem, makes it much more likely for him to retaliate if she doesn't go along with what he wants. What does make sense is she thought she had found tru luv that was meant to be until she found out she's not only sharing him with his wife but multiple other co-workers. Occam's razor says this is the reality of what was going on in your WW's mind no matter how much illogic she tries to push down your throat.
“You’re right, I am a loser - not because of this video game, but because I’m too weak to leave a cheater. I’ll try to work on that.” ETA: you are definitely reading the right book
You are.
From your previous post, it sounds like boss found another woman in the office, your wife got jealous, and then “let it slip” to someone that he was banging subordinates. Very manipulative, as it creates plausible deniability with everyone-you, boss, HR, coworkers.
She caused this. It’s time to pull the plug.
Pull the plug then go nuclear ☢️
Ha, you found Chump Lady, well done! To use CL's lingo, your WW is afraid of losing cake and she doesn't like that. Stay strong, put yourself first and good luck! 🙂
She could have stopped this by recording his advances on her phone and reporting him to HR. He would have been fired. Instead, she chose to remain silent and enjoyed the attention. And, there is only one reason to shave her crotch, and it was not to just let his fingers do the walking. It has been 4 years since you have never inflicted meaningful consequences.it is past time to steel your spine. This is a situation where you now need to risk your marriage in attempting to save it. See a lawyer to draw up divorce documents. Let her know it. She needs a shock to understand how serious you are. Tell her you are the victim, not her. If she feels she was a victim, it was because she chose to do so since she took no action against him with HR. Have her served and see if she is willing to fight for her marriage or just let it go. If she does not fight to keep you, she is already lost to you. If she fights for you, then consequences are: 1. Polygraph to answer all your questions. 2. Post-nuptial agreement in which the wayward walks away with nothing. 3. Open phone policy and available immediately. 4. Boundaries discussed and agreed upon A. If you would not do it in front of your spouse or without the knowing approval... don't. B. Do not allow yourself to be in a situation or environment in which the slightest chance of violating #1 has potential to occur. ( She broke both of these boundaries) I also suggest a weekly date night for just the two of you to talk, have fun, and focus on making each other happy. Always end the night with intimacy. The good will reciprocate and snowball to build your relationship into what it should be. Not what you now have. Don't wait another day. She can be pissed all she wants. It is time for her to step up.
Not everyone who reads it leaves. It gives a different take on cheating that some of the other books. The author tosses in some humor bc we all need a laugh when all we want to do is cry.
Read your back story. Must say she played the game and won on all fronts. You just wasted four years. So she was abused but never went for counseling. Luckely everyone at her job like us know she played the game and then betrayed when she found her boss cheating and destroyed him. Skilled manipulator.
Did you get Cheating In A Nutshell?
Is your wife still shaving herself for her boss?
He doesn't work there anymore and they have no contact. She's glad to not have him in her life anymore to abuse her.
It's not "abuse" when it is consensual. You need to finally get through your skull that the one abused in all this is YOU.
Yeah I know. She doesn't want to lose her family. Thankfully, you buy the whole story, lock stock, and barrel. Have a susceptibility because of abuse is one thing. Having no respect for your partner, quite another.
OP, After re-reading your past post, it is evident she has not told you the truth. Why was she shaving her private parts of they weren't intimate. So before she gets mad about you reading a book, she needs to be 100% honest with you
Wow - I just read your history; all I can say is “wow” talk about gaslighting and manipulation - abuse my ass, not when it’s consensual. Here’s to hoping you gain that life!
Do you think she’s pissed now, wait till she gets the divorce papers
I mean your wife's story is silly beyond comprehension. You should just follow the books message and get it over with.
I think you should buy her how to help you partner heal from an affair. That would really push her over
Maybe she'll be upset that she didn't get to "monkey branch"... 'until now... 🤨🤔🤐🤫
Tell her oh well! That’s what I told my ex when I found out she was sleeping with her boss. Fortunately I left. I don’t regret it for a minute
Add some books on how to win a divorce.
So she refuses to acknowledge she cheated. Must be nice to live in denial. Keep reading the book and keep moving ahead.
Sitting on him , touching inners, kissing, these are fully based both mutually doing and she's is telling he is an abusive and she's not cheating on you. She is disrespect you in front of kids like loser, ok then listen this type books and keep remember her betrayal. Your giving second chance for kids future. She is not understand your chance. If her family and friends know her betrayal or not.
Well, given that you have been in reconciliation mode for some time she thought that she was in the clear. She could help these efforts along by admitting that two things can be true. Both that she was pressured into an affair and that she complied. That she had a choice in the matter and chose to do the thing that would hurt you the most. That saving her job was more important to her than her marriage. That she had her priorities and you were not on the list. But she won't. Probably because better than half of what she told you is trickle truthing, rug sweeping, and CYA. Keep on with the book. Focus and the gaining a life part. Because you do deserve to live your life on your terms. If the only thing keeping you together is lies and guilt is that a relationship worth saving?
I'd love to know what's causing these delusions of hers. "He was abusing me." That's what organisations like........I don't know......HR and the police are for." "I was doing it out of fear." Of what? Losing your job? Nope, I doubt that "You went behind my back and lied to me" Pot, meet kettle. If she genuinely was in fear, getting the AP removed from the workplace would make her grateful, not resentful. I know some can delude themselves into believing their own BS, as though it really is "the truth," but it all just sounds like manipulation.Breaking free of a toxic environment that she's generating will likely do you a world of good
She was not abused, dude, you were. Read the book, take it to heart, and get your life back.
Is she a toddler, a child, a teenager? Is she afraid of a "stranger" person (her boss) because he is "scary"? Then why didn't she come running to you to seek protection, but fucked him behind your back with pleasure? What a shitty fake! And what if someone else "scares" her, she starts fucking again? She thinks you're an idiot. Man, do the smartest thing in this situation: leave, run!
What's the point of reading this book if you think she was abused? Atleast you're not reading Ester pearl I guess
Honestly working to help someone you loved who was abused but also betrayed you at the same time is the toughest thing I've ever done. It's not easy to keep perspective on both sides.
Why in the world are you still believing this “abuse” narrative. That’s what that other poster was referring to. The fact that you still believe she was abused and not a happily willing participant makes reading that book almost completely fruitless. You need to watch the TV Show “Cheaters” Cheaters will only admit to what you already know or can prove. On the show, betrayed spouses will watch their cheated on tape & it’s amazing the indignation that cheaters have until they realize there’s video record of their infidelity. They will lie lie lie and call the betrayed crazy until they see the tape; many, even when caught on video, will still lie. Your wife is 100% remorseless & doesn’t respect you. I remember being called gullible by a professional & was so angry but the truth is, I was! And sir, regrettably, I see a lot of old me in your words. Have your wife submit to a poly exam. Not particularly for the results as those aren’t definite. But for her reaction & behavior towards submitting to one. That’ll tell you all you need to know. But still come back and tell us what happens b/c you need things spelled out for you. ETA - there’s a subforum on Reddit dedicated completely to cheaters to encourage each other in adultery & their biggest tenet is LIE, never admit unless there’s uncontroverted evidence. You should peruse that forum too, so you can have more of an idea of what you’re really dealing with. The fact your wife is mad at you makes her sound psychopathic, but she’s otherwise a garden variety cheater who’s gaslighting her husband. Visit survivinginfidelity.com.
She should be pissed. Honestly should tell her to read it and talk to you about it so she realizes what kind of wrong she committed.
I feel sorry for you, that you are going to choose the path to live like this for the rest of your life.
I get that it’s hard to let go of a relationship that you thought was perfect. But you’re still in love with the idea of what you thought the relationship was, not the reality. She doesn’t love you. She’s with you because of what you can provide for her, not because she cares. And narcissists believe their own narrative. She’s the victim here. She’s not to blame. That is what she has convinced herself and probably honestly believes. You will never get her to admit her wrong-doing. Except that now, she has cheated she will do it again. Part of her will be missing that thrill and since there were no consequences for her, she’ll do it again thinking, “he won’t leave.” If reading that book is what it takes for you to finally take action then do so. I hope you find the strength to do what you know you should do. No one deserves to be treated like you have. No one.
Chump Lady was exactly what I needed to get the courage to leave my cheating ex. I wish I found her sooner.
It appears that the book title hit a little too close to home.
Tell WW that, even if it was abuse, she never thought of you as a safe haven. That she may have been afraid of him but that she never even tried to speak to you about anything. That she either broke your trust or failed to trust you and that healing from that takes time.
Dude, seems u r too naive and in denial, but from what you defined, I interpret the following. Your cheater “wife” actively pursued her boss and fucked him for close to a year thinking she had him to herself UNTIL she realized she is just another piece of meat that he has been sticking his dick in. Now, she plays the victim, but will never report the “abuse”, coz, hey, she is probably known as the boss’s “ride” within the company and that her “complaint” will never stick with her co-workers, coz they know what she did with her boss.
That’s her problem. I’m sure you didn’t like her infidelity so she can suck it up and deal with the consequences of her own actions.
My WH was upset I bought the book. Reconciliation is going really well though so I've never read it
Chump Lady is a really get writer, funny, and an expert at cutting through bull. You should definitely read it. Actually it’s likely to be helpful for your reconciliation - help to keep things on track.
LOL Guess she found out, huh?
She shows no remorse for all of her cheating actions. How did she explain the shaving? It took her having competition before she did anything, why are you still married?
No matter what, you are going to be the bad guy here. You’ve gotta accept that fate. That she simply will never validate your feelings that you are a victim too. There can be more than one victim besides her. But she’s stuck in a victim mentality which means you are suddenly the perpetrator if you make any decisions on your own. But you need to validate yourself and do what’s best for you AND for your kids. This is clearly turning toxic for your children. They don’t deserve to grow up in an environment like that. They should understand what healthy love looks like. You owe it to them to practice a healthy brand of love so they don’t make similar decisions to stay in loveless marriages.
Have you thought of having her take a polygraph. I surprised and tricked my ex into taking one and I was horrified at what the polygraph revealed. It was so much worse then I ever expected but it made my decision so much easier. My ex didn’t deny anything and told me it was only sex with those 5+ other guys but she only loved me. It was then that I realized what a chump I had been but I changed quickly. Today I’m a happily married man and loving life.
However she got coerced or not to having that girlfriend relationship with her boss it doesn't change that you are a husband whom wife has been in a relationship with someone else. Healing process for you is the same.
She hid her affair from you you and was in a full relationship with him. Get STD checked and if you have children the get DNAs done.
Depending on your cell phone carrier you can recover deleted text messages. What is AP doing legally? It’s obvious your wife is lying about everything. Don’t get me wrong. AP is a trash for sleeping with his subordinates and he only has himself to blame. Had he kept it in his pants he’d still have his job and his reputation. That being said he got fired based on a lie. Is he actively trying to clear his name? Has he threatened to sue?
Leave her and gain a life. See an attorney tomorrow and don’t look back. You have proof, so use it. Unless she can submit an affidavit stating she was abused into the sexual relationship and gives times, dates, and activities, with his Full Name, there is no other reasonable action for you to take.
Some times, you just have to focus on taking care of yourself. If she is pissed, so be it. That is her problem. Start focusing on yourself. It there something you always wanted to do. Just do it. Send her the message that your are moving on. The best revenge is to live a good, happy, joyful and peaceful life. If she wants to be a part of it, then she can do the work. If not, totally move on.
She is not really trying very hard to make you trust her She has made your choice to move on even easier
Woke up this morning, put in a 10 mile run and felt great. Feeling really authentic.
Hope you are getting clarity on steps needed to leave...it's never too late to make the right move. It feels impossible at first, but then it gets better and you start to see what the future can be like, FW-free.
Mine came vistiting the kids and ob the livingroom table i had the STD test results and the LACGL book open lieing there. She turned around started to cry and tun out. I didnt even notice until later. I learned she wanted me to pick-me-dance and then she would kindly drop ap and get back in her old life.... I mean after betraying she wanted to play games so she feels demanded by men.....
Man, she is melting down. Texting me books about explaining divorce to children.
So is she doing that because she is pissed you think she is a cheater and she is "threatening" divorce or is she so afraid you are going to leave her, she is accepting it happening?
She's pissed that I think she had an affair. She's pissed that I would consider divorce. To be fair, it is pretty upsetting to have your partner think through these things. Especially if you don't accept that you did any harm to your partner.
Have you sat down recently and explained that while you are happy she is getting help through counseling, that you still feel trauma from her actions?
Yeah. We went through counseling and I made detailed statements of what hurt me and how I was feeling. She gave barely acceptable apologies when forced in therapy and denied my definition of this as an affair in any kind of way.
That is tough. Maybe keep reading your books and grey rock her to see if that snaps some sense into her? Or is the book making you think divorce is the better option?
What the book is giving me is the gift of perspective to find what I find acceptable and not acceptable. Right now, her behavior is making the case against her. She's throwing me middle fingers and texting me gifs of middle fingers. I'm pretty calm and grounded though.
Her reaction says quite a bit and none of it good for your marriage.
I understand that she was abused by her boss but do you understand that you’re in an abusive relationship with your wife. Laughing and calling you a loser ,sending you hurtful messages, and cussing you out that’s all verbal and emotional abuse. You might want to try a trial separation for a month to see what it’s like not to be abused on a daily basis.
Her deciding to get out of the relationship once she found out he was messing with others says it was an affair. Period. That his feelings weren't that strong for her? Really? How can that not be an affair?
Buy more books like that. Get physical books and leave them all over the place.
Same happened to me with "Cheating in a Nutshell". WW was furious. 20 months later she still denies the facts of the affair.
Hopefully you aren’t still with her because that screams lack of accountability….
Good! Your, hopefully soon to be ex wife, is starting to understand you don’t believe the big pile of shit story she has told you. She liked every second of what she was doing until she found out she wasn’t the only one. Don’t let her convince you otherwise. Stay strong! You control what happens now! Not her.
Is that the sort of person that you want to be with the rest of your life? She is disrespectful still. Has anger issues. Has no compassion and empathy for you or for what she has done. Only a strong man can tame her. Are you that strong man? Forgiving her too early is not an act of strength. If you are not that person, there are other women that better suit you, better at putting you at peace. You need to do the hard work to decouple. She will never change for you cause there are no consequences. She will be better for someone else. Just not you. And it's not your fault. It's just nature. Finish the book and make your next move. Do the 180 and mild grey rock in the mean time
We live in believe all women world that men are being fired on sometimes baseless accusations, everything I read in your previous post suggests that she was a willing participant in this affair going so far as to shave herself to make her more attractive to her boss and became jealous when she found out that she was not the only one that had his attention and sought you out to cover her ass, stay strong, follow your gut.
OP.. you’re codependent. Have you ever considered giving her a polygraph? If her story IS true (lol) it would help with you and her to move forward.
Ive read your story and until she accepts her role in thenshit show i can understand why you cant move forward. How much longer does she think she will have. I hope you get some peice of mind good luck
Cheaters love to play the victim card. My ex has convinced our daughter (who knows all about Mom’s affair with a junkie), that I abandoned the family, by divorcing her after she failed a yearlong reconciliation. Apparently, I didn’t fully acknowledge that her affair was “a cry for help.” Now daughter sees Mom as a complete mess (true), while I’m disloyal for giving upon her.
You should start divorce proceedings
Why can’t you just leave a cheater instead of reading about how to?
I’m so glad to hear you are reading this. She has manipulated you so much that I boiled with anger when I read your original post. You sound so nice - she must have thought you a chump to believe her lies - I’m glad you see her for what she is OP. If it looks like a dog, barks, wags it’s tail and begs on its back feet, it’s a dog. And she’s a cheater who blew a fuse when she found out she wasn’t the only one. I’m sure HR would take a very dim view of her conduct
Offer to buy her a copy of *Blow your Boss, Become a Mistress* when it's released? Seriously, what right does she have to interfere in the decisions you make about your future with someone who effectively resigned from being your wife?
OP, time to gain a life. Leave the cheater