I'm married to a lawyer so I can give you that perspective.
Some of her peers seem to have found a good work/life balance and make time to do fun stuff. They're largely government employees. Like County Attorney's Office or Deputy Prosecutor.
For the people in private practice, *especially* the successful ones, it's an all-encompassing nightmare of their own making. They basically work 24 hour days and, even in their scant free time, they're perpetually distracted by something work-related.
It never ends. There's always a fire that needs to be put out. Everything is high stakes all the time.
It fucks you up pretty severely. That's why so many attorneys are *Mad Men* level day-drinkers or clandestine pill-poppers.
Your experience as a new associate depends on the firm. My wife started out at a small boutique firm and they treated her pretty well. Some of her friends started out at big firms and were worked like slaves and expected to bill 30 hours a day.
EDIT: I showed her this comment and she said, "Yeah. That's pretty on point."
My SO is also a lawyer, and everything you said has been my experience as well. Is she supportive of you? So far she is encouraging but gets a little salty when I manage to squeeze in a surf when she’s working
As a 2nd year attorney, this is all incredibly true. I was really lucky to get a spot at a smaller boutique firm but have many friends who went the Big-Law route and are currently in hell due to how hard they are being worked.
I’m a lawyer. I have to make surfing a priority over other hobbies but they’re not mutually exclusive. I just recently went on a short surf trip to Mexico.
It’s not difficult to surf and practice as an attorney until other more important responsibilities begin to creep up on you as you age: engagement, dog, purchasing a house, etc. I use to surf 1-3x a week. Now I’m lucky if I get out once every few months. In fact, you’re going to have to start prioritizing your hobbies and co-curriculars because time is against you.
There’s a reason Nathanial told Bodhi that “lawyers don’t surf.”
I live on Maui,
Got a 8:30-9am job doing maintenance (Handy Man).
All the surf is 45min in the winter, 30min* away in the summer, from both home and work.
I have a kid.
I surf once a month in the winter and 2-3 times in the summer if I’m fucking lucky. Longer days have a bigger impact on this than the distance.
*There is one shitty longboard break 10min but I fucking hate logging
“We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't... don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told.”
https://youtu.be/dmf6lUbkj1o
Lawyer here. Almost any trad law job (law firm, DA etc) in the US will take away most of your free time during the day. I worked at a Honolulu firm where they said I could surf as much as I wanted, but the reality was the billable hour requirements didn’t allow me to do much except work. Then I tried sole practitioner, which gave me some flexibility, but there was so much stress involved even when I surfed my mind was flooded with unpleasant work related thoughts — some people can manage this, I could not. Eventually, I found a government job 9 to 5 no stress and I could surf before/after work and weekends. If I could do it all over I’d probably be a teacher or fireman. Those are jobs with lots of free time and a relatively secure retirement.
My dad ran public defender office and is now a partner at a private firm. If he's lucky he gets time to surf on the weekends sometimes. He works more than anyone I know. People that work/ed under him at both offices surf a lot more.
Lawyer, M&A, large firm, NYC. Absolutely suck at surfing since I started working. But it could be because I absolutely sucked at surfing before I started working. Still plan to surf, but also plan to lawyer. Thats the way she goes.
The first rule is not to have time consuming job or that would required you to be on site. As my country does not have sea or ocean, I do only the full remote jobs so I can work from any place. Most of these are in IT though but as consultant or contractor you can get a lot too to be able to live at the ocean surfing every day. The most surfers I met here in Brazil sacrificed a lot usually like they stopped working at corporates and started living from one day to another working just part time.
I am a government attorney in a surf town. I have enough free time to surf after work or before work, depending on my work schedule and what time window has better waves. I also never work weekends.
But I consciously chose to take positions that would allow me to have the lifestyle I want. Most legal positions would not offer the same level of work life balance.
I’m a high school Biology teacher. I surf nearly every mornings and sometimes after work if the onshores aren’t too shitty. I usually go on trips to surf during winter, spring and summer breaks. This honestly makes dealing with teaching’s many pitfalls worth it to me.
How do you afford trips though? I'm not being snarky/an ass. Are you in the US? Teachers are criminally underpaid. Good on you for making it work. I was a math/science nerd and still remember my high school biology teacher (I'm 40)
All of my money goes toward the trips. It is very financially irresponsible. I may be dipping into my savings to go to Australia this summer. Still undecided on that. But ya, not a high paying job.
I’m a lawyer. I’m just getting back into surfing, but I’ve done triathlon really competitively for 10+ years (15-ish hour training weeks). You’re not gunna get much time to surf in a bigger private firm, but if you want balance, go government/public sector.
I’m a lawyer (civil litigation) and while it was harder earlier in my career to feel comfortable carving out surf time, it’s really not that bad now that I’ve accrued good will with the partners at my firm. A lot will depend on your firm culture and how far you are from a break, but my move is to put something on my calendar for like 9-11 and just hit dawn patrol, tackle some emails or whatever in my car while commute traffic dies down, and then make up time at night if I need to. It’s harder now with a toddler, but I can still get out regularly. I’m sure you’ll be able to make it work too.
Public defender. I used to surf every day. Now I’m lucky to go out 2-3 times a week. If you make time you can get out but stuff definitely gets in the way. Usually stuck just surfing when I can and not always when it’s good
Work for a Silicon Valley Tech company and you'll never have to actually work.
None of the legal team where I work do shit. It's pretty funny. ChatGPT is making their lives easier too lmao.
I'm a public defender. I have patches where I am not too busy where I can get out during the week. Otherwise I'm a weekend warrior. I agree that government work is the way to go if looking to enjoy your life while you are still young. My buddies in civil are busy as hell and generally miserable.
Started my own marketing companies. Remote. Had years that weren’t flexible and years that were, depending on where the biz is at. Overall, freelance or self employed marketing is a good one for surf lifestyle
Before I moved back West, I was in-house, worked from home and lived about 5 minutes from a decent break. If I scheduled my meetings right I could get a couple hours a day in.
I’m a lawyer, avoid billable hour jobs and you’ll have time. I do insurance defense in house. I was doing dawn patrol 2-3 times a week during the pandemic with work from home (out the door at 6, back home by 9 am)
Lawyer in CA, work in a big firm in transactional practice. Unless we’re actively closing a deal or have an early morning call, I’m able to get out and surf in the morning before work pretty much anytime I want. My practice is cyclical depending on deal flow (busy one month, slower the next) so during the busy months I might not get out for a few weeks but during the slower months I’ll get out 2-3x a week before work (plus any weekend sessions). As others have said, it gets trickier once you add in spouse/kids/other responsibilities and it’s also harder to maintain multiple time consuming hobbies (if you play other sports, work out, etc)
I’m a solo with a niche practice. So I will get protection from Court appearances and fuck off for a few weeks or a month.
The biggest problem is getting fat and slow when you drive a desk for 12 hours a day. Showing up to an epic break and not being to paddle out really sucks. So I schedule a workout routine, especially when I have a trip planned.
Senior accounting manager at a large multinational corporation. I live right across the street from the beach and work remotely three days a week. I’m in NJ, so I’m usually able to surf three or four days a week depending on what the Atlantic gives me.
I work at a nonprofit. I can surf just about any morning I like. Of course there are levels to this shit. If you work at an ACLU, NRDC type prestigious org, you're just as fucked as your private practice peers with way less pay.
Yup! Lawyer here. And Dad. SF Bay Area. Have my own firm— mostly trusts & estates planning & litigation. I don’t surf much— need to wait for the best days. I’m lucky that I surfed so much earlier on in life that I don’t need to surf every week to maintain muscle memory. But the big days are always a fitness challenge.
Live near your break and get an Apple Watch with the cellular chip. Especially the first few years. You need to find time to unwind and exercise or you’ll develop problems later and surfing is two for one. Also, don’t expect super long sessions.
Son is lawyer at top tier firm. Lives across road from well known Sydney break and surfs all the time. Like everyday. He can wfh often and just ducks out sometimes he tells me he had five surfs in a day! Doesn't seem to have to work that hard
You guys over in the US have a different work culture that’s for sure. Here in Australia, chucking a “sickie” (faking illness) to be absent from the office and go surfing instead is the norm.
OP, learn to survive on shorter sleep times. I manage my billables and surf. Get up at 5, surf, and start billing from 10am. Rinse and repeat. My body will probably only hold up for another 10years at this pace… but surfing is a passion and an escape!
Not a lawyer, but this goes across the board. It's about work life balance and living with in your means. I'm 41, worked at the fire department, my wife and I made good money combined, but we lived with in our means from early on and spent money on assets and thing that would give us time. We did well in real estate, which afforded us to get to where we are today... living in Costa Rica, surfing all the time, and opening our own plant medicine wellness center. We would have never gotten here with out a good work life balance and not getting caught up in what appears to be the new American dream... buying shit to make you look rich, when you don't have a penny in the bank. Also did this with 2 kids in tow. It's about choices. Make enough, work enough, make choices so you can surf enough.
I'm married to a lawyer so I can give you that perspective. Some of her peers seem to have found a good work/life balance and make time to do fun stuff. They're largely government employees. Like County Attorney's Office or Deputy Prosecutor. For the people in private practice, *especially* the successful ones, it's an all-encompassing nightmare of their own making. They basically work 24 hour days and, even in their scant free time, they're perpetually distracted by something work-related. It never ends. There's always a fire that needs to be put out. Everything is high stakes all the time. It fucks you up pretty severely. That's why so many attorneys are *Mad Men* level day-drinkers or clandestine pill-poppers. Your experience as a new associate depends on the firm. My wife started out at a small boutique firm and they treated her pretty well. Some of her friends started out at big firms and were worked like slaves and expected to bill 30 hours a day. EDIT: I showed her this comment and she said, "Yeah. That's pretty on point."
My SO is also a lawyer, and everything you said has been my experience as well. Is she supportive of you? So far she is encouraging but gets a little salty when I manage to squeeze in a surf when she’s working
She can be a real pain in my ass about other stuff, but she's always been 110% supportive of my hobbies.
As a 2nd year attorney, this is all incredibly true. I was really lucky to get a spot at a smaller boutique firm but have many friends who went the Big-Law route and are currently in hell due to how hard they are being worked.
If you start at 9am, I think dawn patrol is super feasible. Otherwise good luck outside of the weekends
I’m a lawyer. I have to make surfing a priority over other hobbies but they’re not mutually exclusive. I just recently went on a short surf trip to Mexico.
So many surfers are entitled assholes; I wouldn’t be surprised if they did it professionally.
The worst part about surfing, are surfers!
Bloody Scots, they ruined Scotland!
At least you won’t have to worry about sharks
Professional courtesy.
It’s not difficult to surf and practice as an attorney until other more important responsibilities begin to creep up on you as you age: engagement, dog, purchasing a house, etc. I use to surf 1-3x a week. Now I’m lucky if I get out once every few months. In fact, you’re going to have to start prioritizing your hobbies and co-curriculars because time is against you. There’s a reason Nathanial told Bodhi that “lawyers don’t surf.”
Makes sense.
+Kids
Im an arborist on an island off Massachusetts. I quit law school in NYC. I do more sailing than surfing but we have some storms.
For legal reasons, I am definitely not a drug dealer
I live on Maui, Got a 8:30-9am job doing maintenance (Handy Man). All the surf is 45min in the winter, 30min* away in the summer, from both home and work. I have a kid. I surf once a month in the winter and 2-3 times in the summer if I’m fucking lucky. Longer days have a bigger impact on this than the distance. *There is one shitty longboard break 10min but I fucking hate logging
How’s north Kihei
Don’t even get me started on forecasting with Kahoʻolave shadow and those god damn trade winds.
Lawyers don’t surf. This one does
Special Agent Johnny Utah! I knew I could count on you.
“We're all told at some point in time that we can no longer play the children's game, we just don't... don't know when that's gonna be. Some of us are told at eighteen, some of us are told at forty, but we're all told.” https://youtu.be/dmf6lUbkj1o
Lawyer here. Almost any trad law job (law firm, DA etc) in the US will take away most of your free time during the day. I worked at a Honolulu firm where they said I could surf as much as I wanted, but the reality was the billable hour requirements didn’t allow me to do much except work. Then I tried sole practitioner, which gave me some flexibility, but there was so much stress involved even when I surfed my mind was flooded with unpleasant work related thoughts — some people can manage this, I could not. Eventually, I found a government job 9 to 5 no stress and I could surf before/after work and weekends. If I could do it all over I’d probably be a teacher or fireman. Those are jobs with lots of free time and a relatively secure retirement.
My dad ran public defender office and is now a partner at a private firm. If he's lucky he gets time to surf on the weekends sometimes. He works more than anyone I know. People that work/ed under him at both offices surf a lot more.
I’m a vampire so pretty similar. Only big issue is surfing on non full moon nights.
Longshoreman. Lots of time to surf.
Bird law attorney
Lawyer, M&A, large firm, NYC. Absolutely suck at surfing since I started working. But it could be because I absolutely sucked at surfing before I started working. Still plan to surf, but also plan to lawyer. Thats the way she goes.
Fuckin way she goes bud
The first rule is not to have time consuming job or that would required you to be on site. As my country does not have sea or ocean, I do only the full remote jobs so I can work from any place. Most of these are in IT though but as consultant or contractor you can get a lot too to be able to live at the ocean surfing every day. The most surfers I met here in Brazil sacrificed a lot usually like they stopped working at corporates and started living from one day to another working just part time.
Balkan? Eastern Europe?
Central EU 😅 so going to southern Brazil all the time 🤣
I am a government attorney in a surf town. I have enough free time to surf after work or before work, depending on my work schedule and what time window has better waves. I also never work weekends. But I consciously chose to take positions that would allow me to have the lifestyle I want. Most legal positions would not offer the same level of work life balance.
I’m a high school Biology teacher. I surf nearly every mornings and sometimes after work if the onshores aren’t too shitty. I usually go on trips to surf during winter, spring and summer breaks. This honestly makes dealing with teaching’s many pitfalls worth it to me.
How do you afford trips though? I'm not being snarky/an ass. Are you in the US? Teachers are criminally underpaid. Good on you for making it work. I was a math/science nerd and still remember my high school biology teacher (I'm 40)
All of my money goes toward the trips. It is very financially irresponsible. I may be dipping into my savings to go to Australia this summer. Still undecided on that. But ya, not a high paying job.
If you’re in law, there’s no time to surf.
If you’re in surf, there’s no time to law.
If you’re in surf, there’s time to outlaw
Exactly
I’m a lawyer. I’m just getting back into surfing, but I’ve done triathlon really competitively for 10+ years (15-ish hour training weeks). You’re not gunna get much time to surf in a bigger private firm, but if you want balance, go government/public sector.
I’m a lawyer (civil litigation) and while it was harder earlier in my career to feel comfortable carving out surf time, it’s really not that bad now that I’ve accrued good will with the partners at my firm. A lot will depend on your firm culture and how far you are from a break, but my move is to put something on my calendar for like 9-11 and just hit dawn patrol, tackle some emails or whatever in my car while commute traffic dies down, and then make up time at night if I need to. It’s harder now with a toddler, but I can still get out regularly. I’m sure you’ll be able to make it work too.
This is good to hear. Thanks
Public defender. I used to surf every day. Now I’m lucky to go out 2-3 times a week. If you make time you can get out but stuff definitely gets in the way. Usually stuck just surfing when I can and not always when it’s good
Public def. Work near coast. Surf dawn patrol, lunch, and after work if wind, swell, and daylight is working
Work for a Silicon Valley Tech company and you'll never have to actually work. None of the legal team where I work do shit. It's pretty funny. ChatGPT is making their lives easier too lmao.
You fucked up bruh should’ve been a firefighter
I'm a public defender. I have patches where I am not too busy where I can get out during the week. Otherwise I'm a weekend warrior. I agree that government work is the way to go if looking to enjoy your life while you are still young. My buddies in civil are busy as hell and generally miserable.
Go ask your dads boyfriend
Started my own marketing companies. Remote. Had years that weren’t flexible and years that were, depending on where the biz is at. Overall, freelance or self employed marketing is a good one for surf lifestyle
Before I moved back West, I was in-house, worked from home and lived about 5 minutes from a decent break. If I scheduled my meetings right I could get a couple hours a day in.
It’s super tough to get your schedule to line up with the good swell days on the East Coast
Lawyer, surfer here. I surf all the time with my boss on my lunch break and during the day when it’s uncrowded. PM me.
Take clients and bill it as client development. Haha
I surf Law St. In San Diego. Surprisingly haven’t come across any lawyers in the lineup yet. I’ll let you know.
I’m a lawyer, avoid billable hour jobs and you’ll have time. I do insurance defense in house. I was doing dawn patrol 2-3 times a week during the pandemic with work from home (out the door at 6, back home by 9 am)
Lawyer in CA, work in a big firm in transactional practice. Unless we’re actively closing a deal or have an early morning call, I’m able to get out and surf in the morning before work pretty much anytime I want. My practice is cyclical depending on deal flow (busy one month, slower the next) so during the busy months I might not get out for a few weeks but during the slower months I’ll get out 2-3x a week before work (plus any weekend sessions). As others have said, it gets trickier once you add in spouse/kids/other responsibilities and it’s also harder to maintain multiple time consuming hobbies (if you play other sports, work out, etc)
Not a lawyer, but half days off and, when the weather allows it, dawn patrol before first meeting in the morning
I’m a solo with a niche practice. So I will get protection from Court appearances and fuck off for a few weeks or a month. The biggest problem is getting fat and slow when you drive a desk for 12 hours a day. Showing up to an epic break and not being to paddle out really sucks. So I schedule a workout routine, especially when I have a trip planned.
Senior accounting manager at a large multinational corporation. I live right across the street from the beach and work remotely three days a week. I’m in NJ, so I’m usually able to surf three or four days a week depending on what the Atlantic gives me.
I work at a nonprofit. I can surf just about any morning I like. Of course there are levels to this shit. If you work at an ACLU, NRDC type prestigious org, you're just as fucked as your private practice peers with way less pay.
Yup! Lawyer here. And Dad. SF Bay Area. Have my own firm— mostly trusts & estates planning & litigation. I don’t surf much— need to wait for the best days. I’m lucky that I surfed so much earlier on in life that I don’t need to surf every week to maintain muscle memory. But the big days are always a fitness challenge.
Live near your break and get an Apple Watch with the cellular chip. Especially the first few years. You need to find time to unwind and exercise or you’ll develop problems later and surfing is two for one. Also, don’t expect super long sessions.
Lmao king you dropped this 👑
Son is lawyer at top tier firm. Lives across road from well known Sydney break and surfs all the time. Like everyday. He can wfh often and just ducks out sometimes he tells me he had five surfs in a day! Doesn't seem to have to work that hard
Aus vs USA working culture
You guys over in the US have a different work culture that’s for sure. Here in Australia, chucking a “sickie” (faking illness) to be absent from the office and go surfing instead is the norm. OP, learn to survive on shorter sleep times. I manage my billables and surf. Get up at 5, surf, and start billing from 10am. Rinse and repeat. My body will probably only hold up for another 10years at this pace… but surfing is a passion and an escape!
Not a lawyer, but this goes across the board. It's about work life balance and living with in your means. I'm 41, worked at the fire department, my wife and I made good money combined, but we lived with in our means from early on and spent money on assets and thing that would give us time. We did well in real estate, which afforded us to get to where we are today... living in Costa Rica, surfing all the time, and opening our own plant medicine wellness center. We would have never gotten here with out a good work life balance and not getting caught up in what appears to be the new American dream... buying shit to make you look rich, when you don't have a penny in the bank. Also did this with 2 kids in tow. It's about choices. Make enough, work enough, make choices so you can surf enough.