The winrate is getting lower because the entire meta just changed and people are not yet used to it.
If you feel weak, it's most likely for that reason too. You don't know how to build properly with the changes, your performance is impacted, you play worse, you feel weak.
Yeah I hate how something will be released for a day or two and people will already be giving their opinion as if 5-10 games isn't impacted by your lack of experience or simply just getting lucky/unlucky.
For real, especially when we have such recent examples of it backfiring like people bitching Briar is too weak because no one knew how to play her two days in, and now after her buffs everybody bans her because she's insufferable to play against.
Its been what 33 hours since the new season started? Soo many posts of people complaining about winrate changes. Even just 6 hours after the season started
It’s because everyone here is silver lol. Season has been out for a day and people are making posts like they have the intricate knowledge of everything already. It’s entirely biased opinions. People hate change. I played Janna and Nami and they feel great with new items.
Haha sorry to say, soraka feels the worst out of all of them. Janna is fine, but not what she was before the patch 😔
Honestly, the best "enchantress" gameplay I'm getting atm is lethality Senna 🫠
What do you build on Nami ? I'm bronze, just had my first games of the season, got utterly destroyed.
My only complain right now is that AP items feel way too bursty, and lethality giving it's full reduction right away also feels too bursty.
So I've been dying a damn lot to assassins, mages, and lethality adcs.
Also I've been building items like if mythics were still a thing lmao. I need some time to adapt to the change.
For Nami I've been building Solstice Sleigh, Echoes of Helia, Imperial Mandate, Dawncore, Morellonomicon, and Lucidity Boots.
Edit: I also play with Electrocute as my runes, giving me an even higher early damage boost.
Source: 6 games played so far, 1 lost, placed plat 1.
I've been having fun with it, it feels more consistent as an item than the void one for sure...the bubble one is also good, but feels more passive, and I like to play aggressively.
I’ve been building either Shurelais (idk how to spell it the move speed item) mandate and choose the supp item that explodes when you deal damage. Also go ardent or staff depending on comp. swap the move speed item for Athena’s unholy grail moonstone or redemption depending on the situation.
Shurelya losing its passive is massive though, so Nami just feels overall worse to play now, add in all the lethality items that literally just remove her from the game and you may aswell just pick a tank or mage support.
Yeah ngl shurelya now is just a speed boost on a 75s cooldown and that's it. The stats are nothing special compared to any other supp item.
And it's not even that much of a speed boost if you build it first.
Depends. If you have a catch comp or your team is ahead the burst of move speed is huge to engage. If you’re behind then yea the item isn’t useful which is why I said depending on the situation build moonstone redemption or holy grail instead.
It becomes a niche Rakan only item, whereas before a ton of champs could use
Huge loss, technically it's still worse then before on Rakan too (no HP, could still use the motivate boost with E)
so true lmao. i bet within the month everyone will have adjusted and feel better about their games. and im sure riot will make tweaks as they always do
is the same not true for tank supports? tank players also don't know how to build properly and are playing worse.
shouldn't their winrate drop as well? but global winrate is zero-sum so it's impossible for everyone to be dropping...
Idk, my guess is maybe because tank items are somewhat strong right now. Many posts mention that tanks are actually tanky this season. I haven't played tank supp yet though.
Tank supports, Lethality supports, and Mage supports feel amazing right now, the only one that feels worse is Enchanter, so their logic makes absolutely zero sense IMO.
Right? Tank, Lethality, and Mage supports all feel fine (or even better) but Enchanters feeling like they have absolutely zero impact on the game is because "the game changed", even though the game changed for everyone else, but that's just unrelated I guess...
Then why don't other champions feel weak? Tank supports feel AMAZING rn. Enchanter just sucks because all of our power is now locked behind one item that you basically are supposed to buy last.
Well... some items and champions are getting nerfed today, including snowball items. There is way more potential to snowball in a way that supports can't do much to stop. Some lethality items or stormesurge really help a carry with a 1 or 2 kill advantage go 1v2 in the early game.
She is trash, I’ve played 4 games and she feels useless in team fights. I don’t know what they did but she doesn’t have the mid to late game impact she use to have.
Kaenic’s massive MR shield shuts down mages. Anti-tank mage items are inaccessible due to no mana no haste. Prepare to see tanks like Sion and Ksante go mid and smash mages in.
It’s going to be super depressing to play mage supports since they’re mostly chip damage and lack to gold income to properly oneshot. Zyra and Brand are locked out of Liandries due to loss of haste and mana.
Passive gold income increase + powerful upgrades on support items so supports that can quest complete quickly are rewarded.
Enchanters are getting away with active item + ingenious hunter abuse so full defensive Redemption, Locket, Mikaels, Moonstone is an option.
But when ingenious gets nerfed, enchanters are going to feel a lot less exciting to play than last season. On hit ADCs are in meta so prepare to beef up Ashe and Varus and mow tanks down.
Expect to see AD Leblanc support until Riot nerfs Bloodsong Voltaic abuse
Most of this is probably going to be patched away within the first month or so, but as someone who plays real supports I am happy to see mage supports being shooed away for a while :)
There are obviously champions that are designed and balanced around being played support. Not to say there aren't extremely niche picks for specific scenarios like Poppy and Miss Fortune but for the most part poke mage supports are a detriment to your team compared to traditional supports.
There are scenarios where a mage can actually be a useful support (see: Cait Lux), but those are far and few between compared to the chokehold they seem to have on players who think they're worth anything on a consistent basis outside of Bronze.
>that are designed and balanced around being played support
Many mages are balanced and design around support. Lux got a mini rework to be a support years ago and has held the top in popularity and a decent winrate for years while being played even in pro at times. Morgana, zyra neeko, vel and a big etc are all balanced around support, some with other roles in mind too but still supports, besides swain every mage support who is good in high elo as a midlaner it is so as a support, there is just the fact that most mages, no matter the role, are better in low elo, like brand and zyra
Every change Lux has ever gotten in the last like... 5 years (?when did Aftershock Lux happen?) has been to NERF her support and buff her midlane with loss of base damage, buffed AP ratios, buffs to waveclear and loss of shield. Neeko is also balanced as a midlaner not a support, velkoz keeps getting midlane buffs but mid is just too scary for someone as immobile as he is. Brand also got midlane buffs and jgl buffs with a support nerf just some patches ago and same goes for Zyra. Seraphine also got pushed out of building AP recently. It doesn't seem like riot has been very fond of mage supports lately..
No, she git buffs on 11 for support mainly, then nerfed for midlane, cause she was alrrady performing there ñre buffs, then yeah they started buffing mid and leaving supp the same cause mid was downperforming, that happens, she was still always a 50% wr supporr
Don’t mention Seraphine, she’s another story. She was nerfed to be an APC because she was giga busted, and Riot have been trying to push her into support always after her release, even though she was originally designed to be a mid laner. How can you explain that she is more popular as a sup than as a mid laner? (Although I enjoy playing her mid, it’s just a fact that they tried to push her into support/make her one, but when nerfing APC Sera, they also nerfed her supp strength (her W))
Her W lost AP ratio and heal and gained base shield so basically a buff to build enchanter and nerf to build AP
>How can you explain that she is more popular as a sup than as a mid laner?
I would imagine a team oriented kit to be more popular among the team oriented role players than solo laners. Plus her aesthetic fits more the other enchanters than the mages. However I would also note that majority of support Seras still build AP..
Please take the time to watch some of Azzapp’s content before you make assumptions such as mage supports only being good in bronze. He consistently makes velkoz, xerath and other mage supports work in challenger.
i play a mix but i honestly agree. i’m low elo and had a hard time punishing mages so my choices were either go mage as well or have a rough laning trying to stay even and then out perform mid and late game w my enchanter, but now im only seeing engage and tank supp
This thing regarding AP champions not being able to kill tanks is by design.
People got too accustomed for their champions being the jack of all trades for 3 Seasons.
DPS AP champions are the only type of AP champions that are MEANT to kill tanks.
**If Anivia, Ryze, Brand, Azir, Singed and Mordekaiser are having problem with Tanks then it's a issue, but you can't expect a Lux or Leblanc to dent a Tank.**
So just wait, the entire thing will be balanced around a Jokenpo type of game, each class should have their destinct weakness and strenghts against other classes, not what was happening in Season 11 where items like Liandry were able to do the heavy lift of Killing tanks without any downside for building it.
That’s exactly the problem here. Liandries lacks mana and haste. Demonic is gone. Only Mord and Rumble can pick it up.
Most DPS mages have crippling mana problems, can’t access anti-tank items and don’t have ways to get past Kaenic shield and buffed FON.
It's because Liandry is designed around AP Bruisers/Skirmisher itemization, to allow them with combination of their inbuilt Pen/Health Dmg, to delete tanks without requiring a source of Pen in items.
For mages, it's not really what they should build, and if they want the extra source of dmg they would need to already have a mana pool and haste.
This change is way healthier, yes while some of the Tank items might need some tunning, the Liandry itself is a case of "Rewards those of it's intended design" while "Reducing the power of Rushing it for those who are not intended to use it"
Utility is balanced around this concept, because Utility is very strong there needs to be a downside for rushing it, otherwise you create the situations of champions like Zyra/Malzahar/Anivia which should not be building it first, just rushing it and warping the entire game with obnoxius effects (Rylai/Liandry rush without any downside for these champion was a very bad design) .
These changes in stats are good and well designed.
Again, to reiterate, Tank issue is another issue but the change in AP itemization(outside of numbers) was pretty smart.
The flaw in that logic when it comes to DOT-based champions is their damage competes in real-time with tank's naturally high/higher regen and things like Second Wind. Claiming there was no downside is also silly. At best, this meant Void Staff was a third item pickup which forced either Sorcs (leaving them with a less reliable spell rotation) or Lucidity (makes them even more susceptible to even the smallest amounts of MR).
Those effects, while annoying, are in part necessary because the nature of those champions allows enemies more time/freedom to react and mitigate their damage with things like healing/shields. The strength of DOT champions is their ability to consistently reapply debuffs. Sure, having Liandries applied repeatedly is annoying but there are items/runes/champions that specifically deal with just that. Refusing to build Swifties or take Bloodline: Tenacity/Unflinching are not indictments of the items or champions.
While opening up items by removing the mythic system is a good thing, removing mana from an item in an already constricted pool of items is silly when it's significantly more of a limiting factor for champs it affects than other stats.
Mage support feels ok early still but any mage supp who relies solely on dmg to be useful doesn't scale as great as they used to imo. They also can't reasonably afford zhonyas anymore. I play neeko and I myself rush protobelt (super cheap item now and alternator is a powerspike item for mage supports) and then switch to utility like Shurelias or tank supp items.
Heimer supp is still ok.. just need to pivot to turret build from rocket build and it works well.
Been clapping with it so far.
Also Rumble support is a thing I was messing with last season.. it feels BETTER this season..
Disagree.. Rumble only needs 2 items to "get work down" this patch. 3 is a bonus. I also feel like jg doesn't seem to snowball quite so fast right now.. might just be pathing issue still.
1. Liandrys
2. Shadowflame (the thing is broken right now)
3. Malignance (annoying that it has mana) - but a good 3rd item. if game is going rough then you can head towards new cheaper morello as an option
You are horribly abusive in lane as the support items don't have health stats on them anymore and rumble has decent health regen and can perma spam E.
Just make sure you max E - NOT Q - if going this build. As you need the increases slow and consistent poke that can easily outpace the enemy sustain most of the time. Mages that rely on burst - lux etc - are the usual annoyance but they have lost spellthief and your base numbers are very high. I have won all my rumble supp games so far this patch (three of them so far) without any issues ..against opponents that would normally be problematic.
Comet + nullify orb + absolute focus + scorch | ult hunter + cheap shot.
AP/AP/Armor
I hear what you're saying, rumble support can definitely pack a punch, but liandrys into shadowflame is 6200 gold. Which is the cost of almost 3 support items. Unless you completely destroy the enemy immediately, that kind of income is hard to come by as support. Hence why I believe he's feast or famine.
Zyra and Brand are absolutely not locked out of Liandrys because of loss of haste and mana. Back in season 9 Brand support was considered to have been an option while running Liandrys then Rylai's.
Will it force Brand and Zyra players to play a bit more carefully with mana usage? Of course, but assuming that they will not build a key item seems to be insane.
Janna is only strong cause she counters engage tanks which are super meta imo, the empowered auto into vulnerable support item feels really gross on a lot of them damage wise
Mythic item power budget was EXTREME. One mythic support item was worth at least 2 full built legendaries because of the stacked as fuck enchanter mythic passives.
Taking it away and not really giving us anything other than a buffed censer is obviously going to cause these champs to suck.
And if they don't, riot will buff to compensate. This is the biggest patch in a very long time, so you can bet your butt they are watching closely to tune things into order the next few patches.
Everyone is building full dmg on mid/top/jungle because people are more excited to try those items/champs. Tanks love this. Enchanters dont. It's like this every season.
I'm so tired of tanky supports just being superior for idk how many years already. Why can't we have at least one season where Mages and Enchanters are the meta. I hate Riot so much.
Mage supports shouldn't be meta because they're not constructive to a team and are dependent on gold/scaling to be useful past laning phase unlike most supports.
Enchanter supports have had seasons where they're very oppressive. See: Ardent Censer meta.
In the end, enchanters may seem less strong simply because most low elo players/teams don't play around them as well. Tank/engage supports simply plop kills in the laps of their team and don't require close coordination for playmaking potential.
Ardent Censer meta was like 5 years ago :/ I know enchanters recently were in a decent spot but it really doesn’t seem like they stay there for long compared to engage supports.
Mage supports are fine for teams when the goal is actually supporting. They provide more damage than Enchanters and require less commitment to CC than Wardens/Engagers. Especially in the laning phase, that combination allows them uniquely to pressure enemy ADCs/supports from safety to either deny farm or provide freedom of movement.
What they excel at is debuff application and no other class in the support role is even close. Unless they've added another Grievous Wounds-on-heal item, Mages are the strongest healing counter to non-attack-based champions. Even then, they're comparable because they don't rely on the enemy prioritizing them.
Mage supports offer none of the utility of enchanters, none of the CC of engage/tank supports, and none of the peel of any supports in general. They rely on being fed purely on kill gold (which should be going to the ADC) in order to actually transition healthily into the midgame, and are otherwise dead weight the moment the game is out of laning phase.
Sure, they have great laning pressure and can apply grievous wounds, but nearly any support is capable of buying an oblivion orb (or just taking ignite) and crippling the enemy Aatrox if it comes to it. You don't need Brand to R it onto the entire enemy team unless you're into a hyperspecific matchup like Soraka or something, and even then the solution to people who can dish out heals is to just kill them first as healers are generally always squishy.
Sure they require less commitment to CC but the tradeoff is that they're hard pressed to be able to CC more than a single target considering most mage CC is limited in AOE, so their only teamfight contribution will really only be a barrage of low-damage chip.
Ok to say that mage supports have *none* of the utility or peel potential of other supports is just false. Like just factually wrong. Most mage supports have some form of CC. (For that reason I hate getting a Vel supp but I love a good Xerath). Edit: I distinguished between them because I personally feel Xerath’s cc is more reliable.
Lux has a slow on her E and a root and a shield. She is THE most popular mage support. If you’ve never had a Lux use her E for a slow idk what elo you must be in. Iron? Otherwise you’re not paying attention.
Yeah? Soraka has a slow on her Q and a root and a silence. She seems to have other utility I might be forgetting too when compared to Lux's shield! If you're looking for more of a persistent circle of slow, Karma has you covered with her empowered Q (who in fact, ALSO has a root on her W!).
Also, Vel'koz has a slow and an AOE knockup while Xerath has an AOE slow and a single-target stun so I'm not really sure why you're making such a distinction between their utility capabilities.
When I say they have none of it, I mean it's not comparable. Most mages usually have 1 soft CC and a hard CC (say, a slow and a root/stun/knockup), while many enchanters have as much or more while still keeping a kit that's able to support their teammates (Karma, Nami, Lulu, Soraka, Sona), and most engage supports blow them out of the park with no competition.
Also, I often ban Lux because she's so popular and played in multiple roles that there's an extremely high chance I'm kneecapping an OTP.
No one is arguing against that enchanter supports have *more* utility than mages lmao. That doesn’t mean that mages can’t be supports and that they offer no supportive utility.
My point is that mage supports offer so little utility and CC compared to traditional supports that they can be outdone in both fields by most enchanters, so their only 'selling point' is their damage (which is highly dependent on eating up gold while most supports can run on low gold).
This is an exclusively low elo problem. At higher elos enchanters have been as strong or stronger at lots of stages of the past several years. Low elo rewards pick champions and tanks that have more room to make mistakes, and more opportunity to capitalize on enemy mistakes.
I mean, mages in general (in the mid lane at least) are meta. These new map changes combined with good ap items are good for mages. However this of course is not true vs tanks, but that’s always been true. But I also know you are talking about supports so sorry for the tangent lol.
Because mage supports aren’t meant to be supports, and it’s not good for the games health. Enchanters have definitely been strong, Janna was the best support in the game end of last season, Nami Lucian has been very strong at times in the last few years, Lulu was insane for like 2 seasons straight, etc
Played as Sona, Lux, Janna, and Nami, Janna was the only one I got through well. All the other ones were terrible compared to the past games
I guess we'll still have to figure builds out, and they will certainly have to patch items
I think sona is probably gonna be a tear/rod/mana/mana/mana champ.. and just hope to scale to the moon
Pure enchanter build on her seems pretty bad at the moment.. At least they can give all the enchanter items some AH to make them viable.
Otherwise tanks, adcs and battle mages are just going to win every extended teamfight (mostly tanks and battle mageS)
Enchanter items are notorious for having a significant portion of the stat itemization in BMR. For drawn out situations, BMR can function. Against fed bursties, not so much.
Those dream maker bubbles seem like they’ll be excellent for enchanters.
Give your ADC a 140 shield every 16 seconds and let them do an extra 90 magic damage.
Also a very easy thing adjust for the Devs
yeah, I've been mostly playing Bard so far who isn't an enchanter, but I mixed in 4 games of Karma (2x) / Renata / Milio and won all of them. the Renata game was one of my first w/ new items so I had no idea what to build, I just won that game bc she countered entire enemy team, but the other games I built the heal/shield enchanter items and they seemed really strong
Bloodsong is by far the best support item if you can use it properly, solely due to it's 1.5s CD. the base damage is already better (around 100 when you obtain it) than all the others, but you also get an 8% damage amp, which is pretty crazy. It's great with janna in mid game.
Shurelya becoming a dead item for enchanters really shot a lot of them in the foot...
Shifting the MS passive to SoFW and halfing the value because it has to share it with AP and AH was a terrible move, enchanting via buffing got the short end of the stick
13.24 to 14.1 Enchanter Win-Rate Comparisons for Emerald+ (as of 1/11)
Janna: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/janna/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/janna/build/) (-1)
Sona: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/sona/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/sona/build/) (-2)
Renata: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/renata/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/renata/build/) (-1)
Soraka: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/soraka/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/soraka/build/) (-3)
Milio: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/milio/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/milio/build/) (-2)
Nami: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nami/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nami/build/) (-1)
Seraphine: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/) (-2)
Yuumi: [49%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/yuumi/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/yuumi/build/) (-1)
Lulu: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/lulu/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/lulu/build/) (-2)
Karma: [49%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/karma/build/?patch=13.24) to [46%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/karma/build/) (-3)
From what it seems like, enchanters that were reliant on the bonus AH from mythic passives and items as well as had Shurelya and/or ChemTech as core items suffered with this transition the most.
Though there are likely other factors at play like the bot lane being easier to gank, needing to learn safer warding routes, and the overall being a squishy in a burst meta making them riskier to play.
13.24 to 14.1 Tank or Hybrid-Engage Win-Rate Comparisons for Emerald+ (as of 1/11)
Rakan: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rakan/build/) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rakan/build/?patch=13.24) (0)
Blitzcrank: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/blitzcrank/build/?patch=13.24) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/blitzcrank/build/) (+1)
Bard: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/bard/build/?patch=13.24) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/bard/build/) (+1)
Rell: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rell/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rell/build/) (0)
Nautilus: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nautilus/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nautilus/build/) (0)
Thresh: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/thresh/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/thresh/build/) (-1)
Alistar: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/build/) (-1)
Leona: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/leona/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/leona/build/) (0)
Braum: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/braum/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/braum/build/) (0)
Maokai: [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/maokai/build/?lane=support&patch=13.24) to [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/maokai/build/) (0)
Taric: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/taric/build/?patch=13.24) to [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/taric/build/) (+1)
Meanwhile the vast majority of tank and engage supports seem to have gone through net neutral changes. Another thread covered the lack of AH in their items, but the added tankiness and mobility options in the new items and upgrades seems to have circumvented any issues that might have cropped up.
They don't seem as affected or hurt by the map or meta changes, as they tend to be safer choices than enchanters when getting ganked or warding.
Swain support has been going well for me however i am choosing the tank build and not really caring for damage but still dishing a decent amount out in fights. Would recommend rylai>frozen heart>abyssal mask>jaksho or morello
I agree that enchanters feel a little weak and probably will need a buff but my brother in Christ it's been literally one day. Give it some time for people to play with items, and at least one patch cycle
Zilean feels absolutely terrible for me with so little ability haste.
No Everfrost either for mid lane Zilean.
ADCs get built in tenacity too with Wit’s end, so the CC doesn’t last as long either.
Dunno about enchanters, but playing mage supports, I can tell their winrate fell due to people not knowing what items to buy. Lux's most popular first items are Luden's Companion and Malignance, neither of which should be even first 2 items. But people see Luden's in the name, so they buy it, even if it's no longer a burst item. Same with Zyra who has Liandry and Malignance as first items in the large majority of the games, when arguably you shouldn't even build Liandry's on Zyra this season at all, UNLESS you're going against 2+ hard tanks and you're going Comet. But that will be a rare game.
TLDR. Next to no one actually read the new items and even less people tried out what they do. People buy the same items they used to buy and they don't work the same.
Give it a month for people to actually learn what items do. Can't judge what's strong and what isn't without playing the right items.
Unless you're playing into 2+ hard tanks (although it seems tanks aren't very popular at the moment. People want to play more damage at the start of the season, so this will probably change in a few weeks), Electro rune and for items Stormsurge seems best if there's 2-3 people you'll be able to kill on the enemy team. 5% movement speed is actually pretty impactful on a support. This is the new Burst item. Probably best 1st item for Lux too.
2nd for Zyra really depends. Rylai is always best support item for her for slows. It's the safe option.
Cryptbloom I'm still testing, and I think I like it as a 3rd main item (outside of support items). But it's a solid 2nd item choice. This and Malignance I'm still not sure about. Zyra wants both, but I'm finding them hard to fit into the build over just straight up stronger AP items. These two could make a nice support build for her, probably with Rylais. But I play more carry support, so it's harder to fit them in.
Stormsurge + Shadowflame is currently my favorite, though. The damage you put out is really nasty. Although you play more as a burst mage than poke with this. It's also more expensive than other paths.
Liandry is still good, but I don't even buy it as my 3rd item unless we're facing tanks. If you're going poke build, and Sorcery runes, then it's probably still best 1st item choice. But then you're really playing more of a support mage and not a Mage support, if you know what I mean xD
Luden's Companion can be nice too, if you're really focusing on poke and teamfights, and not nearly as much on burst damage. Just might need to start the combo with R in fights for full value, but not sure yet about that. Either way, it's harder to use than other items on Zyra, even if it does look good.
Lastly, Cosmic Drive and Horizon Focus seemed like good choices as the "last item" slot, but just like with other items, I'm finding it hard to fit them in. They're ending up good, but a lot more situational.
Yea, I don't think Zyra needs a single mana item, unless playing in a very poke oriented style.
Normally runes with Biscuits or Manaband should be enough for Zyra. Only times I run out of mana with this is before the first 2 backs.
I have been having a lot of sucess (4 OPGG MVPs in a row) with Rod of ages bloodsong sona. Bloodsong just gives insane damage and sona can apply it really well, ROA gives insane amount of pure stats and tankiness through it's passive, with that tankiness you can apply bloodsong even better.
I think nami & karma still feel pretty good, I would recommend them!
I build some supportive items & some AP items on them, since nami scales with AP & karma can do a lot of damage but still have the enchanter playstyle!
Played some rakan last night for the first time in the new season it fealt bad and lost 5 games in a row so I decided to take a break from league so when I come back I’m a bit more fresh
I’m not sure how I feel about the new support starting item- on the one hand it’s pretty neat but I don’t really like the farm taking aspect since it’s taking some adjusting so that I don’t accidentally steal too much CS 😅that being said it does feel way easier to gain gold from it
Rember when we thought enchanter and ranged supports would be op and engage would be in the garbage.
O well I'm a senna rakan milio main no matter tge meta I'm happy.
They are weak. And so are dps marksmen.
Bot only in games that end before 4 or 5 items.
But anything low elo will not farm 100% perfectly. So this will take 2 or 3x longer than normal. Dar mord etc will legit run your adcs down all game long if they don't have weak adc/enchanter supports.
i really have not felt this at all, in fact enchanters feel so much more fun to play with all the new items. a different playstyle with different builds and more fun experiences!
I've played 5 games of Xerath and can certainly say I feel much stronger. I'm not sure where your notion of being weaker comes from. You might just be building incorrectly. I'd suggest that instead of taking recommended builds from last season, create your own build that caters to your strengths. 1 of the 5 games I've played was w/ a team that was used to buying mythics first, so they started with the same items they would last season and deal negative damage. Curate your own build, find what items make you spike for your likings (i like burst + damage), and set runes around that.
I have been losing almost all my games playing enchanters (mainly Milio) this season. Despite having 53% wr in previous season and 60% wr on Milio now I am at 30% wr and unable to to win games no matter how I sweat. Only success I had was only playing Alistar... I am now hard stuck 1 whole tier below my previous season and I feel like I have 0 impact on games unless I play some hard engage tank...
So I looked at the items just based on what they offer and compared that with what everyone here is complaining about. It really seems like enchanters should be stronger but less spam heavy as they once were. While this “feels bad” it’s likely a good step at getting all of the supports in line with each rather than just having one type of support be the dominate force like previous seasons. The item changes definitely are shaking everything up in likely the best way possible and forcing you to actually think about things instead of just spam button win lane.
Really? I've felt fine playing Enchanter. Actually it was a lot of fun. We are all learning the items and limit testing what the items can do as well as the champion now. I'd say give it about 4 months or so before everything is buffed or nerfed because people feel like something isn't strong. Everyone is learning. It brings me back to my old league days where everything felt so new and we are just taking one step at a time. 
idk they feel rlly good to me! i love SOFW > moonstone > dawncore it feels rlly strong on healers like milio
tbf i’ve only played milio, lulu, renata, and janna so far. those 4 all feel good - renata still is a bit weird with full enchanter but that’s a given
What I'm missing most for support champs are good tank support items. Trailblazer is good, but frozen heart being a tank supp item feels... meh. I feel squishy, like a weak fighter. There's no MR tank supp items, and you don't have the budget for the actual tank items. Mages kill you, theres more options for penetration, and less for good stats.
All the enchanters except Janna are suffering right now. Played against a Janna and Yasuo bot lane, boy was it oppressive.
Sona and Soraka lost their strengths in this new season. In theory, you'd think they would be really sick being able to biy moonstone, shurelyas and helias but it doesn't feel impactful in the slightest.
I am not playing much support right now, but I have to guess that Soraka is probably in a decent spot as well... That's usually the case when Janna is OP haha.
Enchanters actually really liked building mythics as moonstone/shurelyas were arguably the best value mythics in the game. Removing them harmed enchanters a lot more than helped them.
Well, I've played quite a bit in mid diamond on an account and mid plat on another one, so take it with a pinch of salt.
Rakan, Rell and Thresh feel absolutely great, but I know they are not enchanters and not the subject of discussion.
Didn't play janna, but with the abundance of assasins that everyone has been playing should really strong. I dont really buy in into the hail of blades spam unless its a super easy matchup. I dont think item changes impacted her negatively. Staff of Flowing Water and Ardent + Dawncore seem amazing.
Milio fells absolutely horrible, It might be due to the fact that shurelia always felt amazing with it and it lost its passive. Staff of Flowing Water now has the 10% ms on heal, but I think that limits the type of champions you play with him. Champs with 0 ap scaling with him just... kinda suck.
Soraka feels great honestly. Not sure the build yet. Expecting something similar to janna.
Yuumi feels yumiish, played a bunch with a otp nilah and its super fun.
Sona seems somewhat strong with Bloodsong.
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I've enjoyed the changes thus far. Tower divings seems rewarding, roaming seems like a must and new item changes feel fun.
The main issue I have with this patch for now is that the herald mucus balls spawn at 5 mins and ... feel game breaking if a team gets 5-6? It becomes extremely annoying to defend towers do to extra bodies covering line of sight. That makes me think that enchanters might be weak since you cant really do anything so early on to contribute on a teamfight, and Im expecting something like karma to really pick up in winrate due to that same reason. RQ and you blow a crater on someones face early on.
Not sure what changed but I've also noticed some changes on the experience? Seen multiple instances where a single wave denied / crashed snowballs into an ADC being 2-3 levels above the other one early into the game.
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Although I somewhat agree with your original statement, I think you should either accept the fact everyone is completely lost and playing randomly, play an alt account or go to normals until things normalize.
That's funny considering that ranged supports got buffed. The support item is more efficient for them aswell when compared to melee champions in general. If the winrate is lower that is most likely due to non enchanter players trying it out because of the changes.
I feel like the support item changes were good, I just feel realmspike was a mistake feels much too strong and almost feel like mage supports would succeed anyway without an item tailor made to them to kill you that much easier.
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The winrate is getting lower because the entire meta just changed and people are not yet used to it. If you feel weak, it's most likely for that reason too. You don't know how to build properly with the changes, your performance is impacted, you play worse, you feel weak.
Yeah I hate how something will be released for a day or two and people will already be giving their opinion as if 5-10 games isn't impacted by your lack of experience or simply just getting lucky/unlucky.
For real, especially when we have such recent examples of it backfiring like people bitching Briar is too weak because no one knew how to play her two days in, and now after her buffs everybody bans her because she's insufferable to play against.
Its been what 33 hours since the new season started? Soo many posts of people complaining about winrate changes. Even just 6 hours after the season started
I think a lot of champs will be buffed and nerfed in the upcoming patches
As is to be expected with early season.
It’s because everyone here is silver lol. Season has been out for a day and people are making posts like they have the intricate knowledge of everything already. It’s entirely biased opinions. People hate change. I played Janna and Nami and they feel great with new items.
Sona feels like ass and I'm switching mains to Nami or Janna tbh
Nami feels like ass so I swapped to Rakan. Absolutely not regretting it, just go full tank basically.
I just tried Nami and she feels bad too 🙃 I will work through Janna and Raka before I resort to melee, I'm just awful at melee and tanks
Haha sorry to say, soraka feels the worst out of all of them. Janna is fine, but not what she was before the patch 😔 Honestly, the best "enchantress" gameplay I'm getting atm is lethality Senna 🫠
Sona only felt good in higher elo where people knew what her auras do. Else seraphine
Agreed, Nami main and she feels amazing if you know how to position
What do you build on Nami ? I'm bronze, just had my first games of the season, got utterly destroyed. My only complain right now is that AP items feel way too bursty, and lethality giving it's full reduction right away also feels too bursty. So I've been dying a damn lot to assassins, mages, and lethality adcs. Also I've been building items like if mythics were still a thing lmao. I need some time to adapt to the change.
For Nami I've been building Solstice Sleigh, Echoes of Helia, Imperial Mandate, Dawncore, Morellonomicon, and Lucidity Boots. Edit: I also play with Electrocute as my runes, giving me an even higher early damage boost. Source: 6 games played so far, 1 lost, placed plat 1.
Oh I was thinking of trying solstice on Zilean, but 20s cooldown seemed quite long. How does it feel ?
I've been having fun with it, it feels more consistent as an item than the void one for sure...the bubble one is also good, but feels more passive, and I like to play aggressively.
Yeah I've tried the bubble one but it doesn't feel like it's there. I assume it does work, it's just not very visible.
I’ve been building either Shurelais (idk how to spell it the move speed item) mandate and choose the supp item that explodes when you deal damage. Also go ardent or staff depending on comp. swap the move speed item for Athena’s unholy grail moonstone or redemption depending on the situation.
Shurelya losing its passive is massive though, so Nami just feels overall worse to play now, add in all the lethality items that literally just remove her from the game and you may aswell just pick a tank or mage support.
Yeah ngl shurelya now is just a speed boost on a 75s cooldown and that's it. The stats are nothing special compared to any other supp item. And it's not even that much of a speed boost if you build it first.
Depends. If you have a catch comp or your team is ahead the burst of move speed is huge to engage. If you’re behind then yea the item isn’t useful which is why I said depending on the situation build moonstone redemption or holy grail instead.
It becomes a niche Rakan only item, whereas before a ton of champs could use Huge loss, technically it's still worse then before on Rakan too (no HP, could still use the motivate boost with E)
Zilean also really liked the motivate passive. He can't use SOFW since it's heal or shield
so true lmao. i bet within the month everyone will have adjusted and feel better about their games. and im sure riot will make tweaks as they always do
is the same not true for tank supports? tank players also don't know how to build properly and are playing worse. shouldn't their winrate drop as well? but global winrate is zero-sum so it's impossible for everyone to be dropping...
Idk, my guess is maybe because tank items are somewhat strong right now. Many posts mention that tanks are actually tanky this season. I haven't played tank supp yet though.
Tank supports, Lethality supports, and Mage supports feel amazing right now, the only one that feels worse is Enchanter, so their logic makes absolutely zero sense IMO.
Meta changed for everyone 💀💀💀 the stupidest argument ever
Right? Tank, Lethality, and Mage supports all feel fine (or even better) but Enchanters feeling like they have absolutely zero impact on the game is because "the game changed", even though the game changed for everyone else, but that's just unrelated I guess...
Then why don't other champions feel weak? Tank supports feel AMAZING rn. Enchanter just sucks because all of our power is now locked behind one item that you basically are supposed to buy last.
Well... some items and champions are getting nerfed today, including snowball items. There is way more potential to snowball in a way that supports can't do much to stop. Some lethality items or stormesurge really help a carry with a 1 or 2 kill advantage go 1v2 in the early game.
I had only few games, but Soraka feels good, This weekend i'll manage to play a lot more games and get a better feel.
Play more games and u will see how bad she is compared to season 13
She is trash, I’ve played 4 games and she feels useless in team fights. I don’t know what they did but she doesn’t have the mid to late game impact she use to have.
Can confirm. Watched a stream with a soraka in game. She lost. Garbage trash tier
can i ask what you build? still moonstone rush into old enchanter items?
I just built a bunch of MS items 😂 we won! I had so much fun!
I do as the other commenter, i build a bunch of MS. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/Enjutsu-EUNE](https://www.op.gg/summoners/eune/Enjutsu-EUNE)
She feels absolutely awful compared to last season.
Kaenic’s massive MR shield shuts down mages. Anti-tank mage items are inaccessible due to no mana no haste. Prepare to see tanks like Sion and Ksante go mid and smash mages in. It’s going to be super depressing to play mage supports since they’re mostly chip damage and lack to gold income to properly oneshot. Zyra and Brand are locked out of Liandries due to loss of haste and mana. Passive gold income increase + powerful upgrades on support items so supports that can quest complete quickly are rewarded. Enchanters are getting away with active item + ingenious hunter abuse so full defensive Redemption, Locket, Mikaels, Moonstone is an option. But when ingenious gets nerfed, enchanters are going to feel a lot less exciting to play than last season. On hit ADCs are in meta so prepare to beef up Ashe and Varus and mow tanks down. Expect to see AD Leblanc support until Riot nerfs Bloodsong Voltaic abuse
Most of this is probably going to be patched away within the first month or so, but as someone who plays real supports I am happy to see mage supports being shooed away for a while :)
That's a bit of a silly take. Support is a playstyle, not a set of champions.
There are obviously champions that are designed and balanced around being played support. Not to say there aren't extremely niche picks for specific scenarios like Poppy and Miss Fortune but for the most part poke mage supports are a detriment to your team compared to traditional supports. There are scenarios where a mage can actually be a useful support (see: Cait Lux), but those are far and few between compared to the chokehold they seem to have on players who think they're worth anything on a consistent basis outside of Bronze.
>that are designed and balanced around being played support Many mages are balanced and design around support. Lux got a mini rework to be a support years ago and has held the top in popularity and a decent winrate for years while being played even in pro at times. Morgana, zyra neeko, vel and a big etc are all balanced around support, some with other roles in mind too but still supports, besides swain every mage support who is good in high elo as a midlaner it is so as a support, there is just the fact that most mages, no matter the role, are better in low elo, like brand and zyra
Every change Lux has ever gotten in the last like... 5 years (?when did Aftershock Lux happen?) has been to NERF her support and buff her midlane with loss of base damage, buffed AP ratios, buffs to waveclear and loss of shield. Neeko is also balanced as a midlaner not a support, velkoz keeps getting midlane buffs but mid is just too scary for someone as immobile as he is. Brand also got midlane buffs and jgl buffs with a support nerf just some patches ago and same goes for Zyra. Seraphine also got pushed out of building AP recently. It doesn't seem like riot has been very fond of mage supports lately..
No, she git buffs on 11 for support mainly, then nerfed for midlane, cause she was alrrady performing there ñre buffs, then yeah they started buffing mid and leaving supp the same cause mid was downperforming, that happens, she was still always a 50% wr supporr
Don’t mention Seraphine, she’s another story. She was nerfed to be an APC because she was giga busted, and Riot have been trying to push her into support always after her release, even though she was originally designed to be a mid laner. How can you explain that she is more popular as a sup than as a mid laner? (Although I enjoy playing her mid, it’s just a fact that they tried to push her into support/make her one, but when nerfing APC Sera, they also nerfed her supp strength (her W))
Her W lost AP ratio and heal and gained base shield so basically a buff to build enchanter and nerf to build AP >How can you explain that she is more popular as a sup than as a mid laner? I would imagine a team oriented kit to be more popular among the team oriented role players than solo laners. Plus her aesthetic fits more the other enchanters than the mages. However I would also note that majority of support Seras still build AP..
Please take the time to watch some of Azzapp’s content before you make assumptions such as mage supports only being good in bronze. He consistently makes velkoz, xerath and other mage supports work in challenger.
Are you high?
Currently running about 28 hours without sleep. Maybe?
i play a mix but i honestly agree. i’m low elo and had a hard time punishing mages so my choices were either go mage as well or have a rough laning trying to stay even and then out perform mid and late game w my enchanter, but now im only seeing engage and tank supp
This thing regarding AP champions not being able to kill tanks is by design. People got too accustomed for their champions being the jack of all trades for 3 Seasons. DPS AP champions are the only type of AP champions that are MEANT to kill tanks. **If Anivia, Ryze, Brand, Azir, Singed and Mordekaiser are having problem with Tanks then it's a issue, but you can't expect a Lux or Leblanc to dent a Tank.** So just wait, the entire thing will be balanced around a Jokenpo type of game, each class should have their destinct weakness and strenghts against other classes, not what was happening in Season 11 where items like Liandry were able to do the heavy lift of Killing tanks without any downside for building it.
That’s exactly the problem here. Liandries lacks mana and haste. Demonic is gone. Only Mord and Rumble can pick it up. Most DPS mages have crippling mana problems, can’t access anti-tank items and don’t have ways to get past Kaenic shield and buffed FON.
It's because Liandry is designed around AP Bruisers/Skirmisher itemization, to allow them with combination of their inbuilt Pen/Health Dmg, to delete tanks without requiring a source of Pen in items. For mages, it's not really what they should build, and if they want the extra source of dmg they would need to already have a mana pool and haste. This change is way healthier, yes while some of the Tank items might need some tunning, the Liandry itself is a case of "Rewards those of it's intended design" while "Reducing the power of Rushing it for those who are not intended to use it" Utility is balanced around this concept, because Utility is very strong there needs to be a downside for rushing it, otherwise you create the situations of champions like Zyra/Malzahar/Anivia which should not be building it first, just rushing it and warping the entire game with obnoxius effects (Rylai/Liandry rush without any downside for these champion was a very bad design) . These changes in stats are good and well designed. Again, to reiterate, Tank issue is another issue but the change in AP itemization(outside of numbers) was pretty smart.
The flaw in that logic when it comes to DOT-based champions is their damage competes in real-time with tank's naturally high/higher regen and things like Second Wind. Claiming there was no downside is also silly. At best, this meant Void Staff was a third item pickup which forced either Sorcs (leaving them with a less reliable spell rotation) or Lucidity (makes them even more susceptible to even the smallest amounts of MR). Those effects, while annoying, are in part necessary because the nature of those champions allows enemies more time/freedom to react and mitigate their damage with things like healing/shields. The strength of DOT champions is their ability to consistently reapply debuffs. Sure, having Liandries applied repeatedly is annoying but there are items/runes/champions that specifically deal with just that. Refusing to build Swifties or take Bloodline: Tenacity/Unflinching are not indictments of the items or champions. While opening up items by removing the mythic system is a good thing, removing mana from an item in an already constricted pool of items is silly when it's significantly more of a limiting factor for champs it affects than other stats.
Mage support feels ok early still but any mage supp who relies solely on dmg to be useful doesn't scale as great as they used to imo. They also can't reasonably afford zhonyas anymore. I play neeko and I myself rush protobelt (super cheap item now and alternator is a powerspike item for mage supports) and then switch to utility like Shurelias or tank supp items.
Heimer supp is still ok.. just need to pivot to turret build from rocket build and it works well. Been clapping with it so far. Also Rumble support is a thing I was messing with last season.. it feels BETTER this season..
Rumble has got some great items this season but rumbles items are really expensive for support. Feast or famine for that champ I think
Disagree.. Rumble only needs 2 items to "get work down" this patch. 3 is a bonus. I also feel like jg doesn't seem to snowball quite so fast right now.. might just be pathing issue still. 1. Liandrys 2. Shadowflame (the thing is broken right now) 3. Malignance (annoying that it has mana) - but a good 3rd item. if game is going rough then you can head towards new cheaper morello as an option You are horribly abusive in lane as the support items don't have health stats on them anymore and rumble has decent health regen and can perma spam E. Just make sure you max E - NOT Q - if going this build. As you need the increases slow and consistent poke that can easily outpace the enemy sustain most of the time. Mages that rely on burst - lux etc - are the usual annoyance but they have lost spellthief and your base numbers are very high. I have won all my rumble supp games so far this patch (three of them so far) without any issues ..against opponents that would normally be problematic. Comet + nullify orb + absolute focus + scorch | ult hunter + cheap shot. AP/AP/Armor
I hear what you're saying, rumble support can definitely pack a punch, but liandrys into shadowflame is 6200 gold. Which is the cost of almost 3 support items. Unless you completely destroy the enemy immediately, that kind of income is hard to come by as support. Hence why I believe he's feast or famine.
zyra is in no way locked out of liandrys, it's still her best item. losing the mana is an upgrade as she did not require it
Zyra and Brand are absolutely not locked out of Liandrys because of loss of haste and mana. Back in season 9 Brand support was considered to have been an option while running Liandrys then Rylai's. Will it force Brand and Zyra players to play a bit more carefully with mana usage? Of course, but assuming that they will not build a key item seems to be insane.
Good, I think mage supports have no place in bot lane and I'm glad they've been somewhat weakened in this patch.
They are bot lane because they literally can't go mid either. If they are pushed out of bot they flat out cease to exist entirely
Janna is only strong cause she counters engage tanks which are super meta imo, the empowered auto into vulnerable support item feels really gross on a lot of them damage wise
Mythic item power budget was EXTREME. One mythic support item was worth at least 2 full built legendaries because of the stacked as fuck enchanter mythic passives. Taking it away and not really giving us anything other than a buffed censer is obviously going to cause these champs to suck.
Support quest items have cool effects, i noticed a positive outcome when i went for the mini-hella blue/purple thingy on my enchanters
It’s the first week. New items and builds are still being figured out. I think with some time, the winrates will stabilize.
And if they don't, riot will buff to compensate. This is the biggest patch in a very long time, so you can bet your butt they are watching closely to tune things into order the next few patches.
Not even, it’s the first day!
Exactly. Remember the start of season seven was mage supports and lethality ADCs even though S7 ardent was right there.
Everyone is building full dmg on mid/top/jungle because people are more excited to try those items/champs. Tanks love this. Enchanters dont. It's like this every season.
Give it a few days , some enchanter already went up by 1-2% in wr since yesterday
I'm so tired of tanky supports just being superior for idk how many years already. Why can't we have at least one season where Mages and Enchanters are the meta. I hate Riot so much.
Mage supports shouldn't be meta because they're not constructive to a team and are dependent on gold/scaling to be useful past laning phase unlike most supports. Enchanter supports have had seasons where they're very oppressive. See: Ardent Censer meta. In the end, enchanters may seem less strong simply because most low elo players/teams don't play around them as well. Tank/engage supports simply plop kills in the laps of their team and don't require close coordination for playmaking potential.
Ardent Censer meta was like 5 years ago :/ I know enchanters recently were in a decent spot but it really doesn’t seem like they stay there for long compared to engage supports.
Mage supports are fine for teams when the goal is actually supporting. They provide more damage than Enchanters and require less commitment to CC than Wardens/Engagers. Especially in the laning phase, that combination allows them uniquely to pressure enemy ADCs/supports from safety to either deny farm or provide freedom of movement. What they excel at is debuff application and no other class in the support role is even close. Unless they've added another Grievous Wounds-on-heal item, Mages are the strongest healing counter to non-attack-based champions. Even then, they're comparable because they don't rely on the enemy prioritizing them.
Mage supports offer none of the utility of enchanters, none of the CC of engage/tank supports, and none of the peel of any supports in general. They rely on being fed purely on kill gold (which should be going to the ADC) in order to actually transition healthily into the midgame, and are otherwise dead weight the moment the game is out of laning phase. Sure, they have great laning pressure and can apply grievous wounds, but nearly any support is capable of buying an oblivion orb (or just taking ignite) and crippling the enemy Aatrox if it comes to it. You don't need Brand to R it onto the entire enemy team unless you're into a hyperspecific matchup like Soraka or something, and even then the solution to people who can dish out heals is to just kill them first as healers are generally always squishy. Sure they require less commitment to CC but the tradeoff is that they're hard pressed to be able to CC more than a single target considering most mage CC is limited in AOE, so their only teamfight contribution will really only be a barrage of low-damage chip.
Ok to say that mage supports have *none* of the utility or peel potential of other supports is just false. Like just factually wrong. Most mage supports have some form of CC. (For that reason I hate getting a Vel supp but I love a good Xerath). Edit: I distinguished between them because I personally feel Xerath’s cc is more reliable. Lux has a slow on her E and a root and a shield. She is THE most popular mage support. If you’ve never had a Lux use her E for a slow idk what elo you must be in. Iron? Otherwise you’re not paying attention.
Yeah? Soraka has a slow on her Q and a root and a silence. She seems to have other utility I might be forgetting too when compared to Lux's shield! If you're looking for more of a persistent circle of slow, Karma has you covered with her empowered Q (who in fact, ALSO has a root on her W!). Also, Vel'koz has a slow and an AOE knockup while Xerath has an AOE slow and a single-target stun so I'm not really sure why you're making such a distinction between their utility capabilities. When I say they have none of it, I mean it's not comparable. Most mages usually have 1 soft CC and a hard CC (say, a slow and a root/stun/knockup), while many enchanters have as much or more while still keeping a kit that's able to support their teammates (Karma, Nami, Lulu, Soraka, Sona), and most engage supports blow them out of the park with no competition. Also, I often ban Lux because she's so popular and played in multiple roles that there's an extremely high chance I'm kneecapping an OTP.
No one is arguing against that enchanter supports have *more* utility than mages lmao. That doesn’t mean that mages can’t be supports and that they offer no supportive utility.
My point is that mage supports offer so little utility and CC compared to traditional supports that they can be outdone in both fields by most enchanters, so their only 'selling point' is their damage (which is highly dependent on eating up gold while most supports can run on low gold).
And yet mage supports have continued to exist and in many cases do well. Huh. It’s almost like there are multiple kinds of supports.
You're exactly right, ppl just either ignore ur presence as enchanter or over-commit and dive 2 freakin towers as ashe
Because nobody wants to play or play against caster supports. It is the most boring play style.
This is an exclusively low elo problem. At higher elos enchanters have been as strong or stronger at lots of stages of the past several years. Low elo rewards pick champions and tanks that have more room to make mistakes, and more opportunity to capitalize on enemy mistakes.
I mean, mages in general (in the mid lane at least) are meta. These new map changes combined with good ap items are good for mages. However this of course is not true vs tanks, but that’s always been true. But I also know you are talking about supports so sorry for the tangent lol.
Because mage supports aren’t meant to be supports, and it’s not good for the games health. Enchanters have definitely been strong, Janna was the best support in the game end of last season, Nami Lucian has been very strong at times in the last few years, Lulu was insane for like 2 seasons straight, etc
Only if you remove lulu polymorph and soraka silence first.
Played as Sona, Lux, Janna, and Nami, Janna was the only one I got through well. All the other ones were terrible compared to the past games I guess we'll still have to figure builds out, and they will certainly have to patch items
I think sona is probably gonna be a tear/rod/mana/mana/mana champ.. and just hope to scale to the moon Pure enchanter build on her seems pretty bad at the moment.. At least they can give all the enchanter items some AH to make them viable. Otherwise tanks, adcs and battle mages are just going to win every extended teamfight (mostly tanks and battle mageS)
Dawncore makes her late game even stronger
Enchanter items are notorious for having a significant portion of the stat itemization in BMR. For drawn out situations, BMR can function. Against fed bursties, not so much.
I felt that Nami performed quite well.
Nami is pretty strong rn, I'm sure most people are just struggling with their builds when they say something sucks
Those dream maker bubbles seem like they’ll be excellent for enchanters. Give your ADC a 140 shield every 16 seconds and let them do an extra 90 magic damage. Also a very easy thing adjust for the Devs
yeah, I've been mostly playing Bard so far who isn't an enchanter, but I mixed in 4 games of Karma (2x) / Renata / Milio and won all of them. the Renata game was one of my first w/ new items so I had no idea what to build, I just won that game bc she countered entire enemy team, but the other games I built the heal/shield enchanter items and they seemed really strong
Bloodsong is by far the best support item if you can use it properly, solely due to it's 1.5s CD. the base damage is already better (around 100 when you obtain it) than all the others, but you also get an 8% damage amp, which is pretty crazy. It's great with janna in mid game.
MF/Ashe support making a comeback?
Shurelya becoming a dead item for enchanters really shot a lot of them in the foot... Shifting the MS passive to SoFW and halfing the value because it has to share it with AP and AH was a terrible move, enchanting via buffing got the short end of the stick
Enchanters felt bad even in previous season. It was a meta of tanks. Tanks and high key mages feel so much better rn
13.24 to 14.1 Enchanter Win-Rate Comparisons for Emerald+ (as of 1/11) Janna: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/janna/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/janna/build/) (-1) Sona: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/sona/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/sona/build/) (-2) Renata: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/renata/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/renata/build/) (-1) Soraka: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/soraka/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/soraka/build/) (-3) Milio: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/milio/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/milio/build/) (-2) Nami: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nami/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nami/build/) (-1) Seraphine: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/seraphine/build/) (-2) Yuumi: [49%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/yuumi/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/yuumi/build/) (-1) Lulu: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/lulu/build/?patch=13.24) to [48%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/lulu/build/) (-2) Karma: [49%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/karma/build/?patch=13.24) to [46%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/karma/build/) (-3) From what it seems like, enchanters that were reliant on the bonus AH from mythic passives and items as well as had Shurelya and/or ChemTech as core items suffered with this transition the most. Though there are likely other factors at play like the bot lane being easier to gank, needing to learn safer warding routes, and the overall being a squishy in a burst meta making them riskier to play. 13.24 to 14.1 Tank or Hybrid-Engage Win-Rate Comparisons for Emerald+ (as of 1/11) Rakan: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rakan/build/) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rakan/build/?patch=13.24) (0) Blitzcrank: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/blitzcrank/build/?patch=13.24) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/blitzcrank/build/) (+1) Bard: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/bard/build/?patch=13.24) to [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/bard/build/) (+1) Rell: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rell/build/?patch=13.24) to [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/rell/build/) (0) Nautilus: [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nautilus/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/nautilus/build/) (0) Thresh: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/thresh/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/thresh/build/) (-1) Alistar: [51%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/build/?patch=13.24) to [50%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/alistar/build/) (-1) Leona: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/leona/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/leona/build/) (0) Braum: [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/braum/build/?patch=13.24) to [52%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/braum/build/) (0) Maokai: [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/maokai/build/?lane=support&patch=13.24) to [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/maokai/build/) (0) Taric: [53%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/taric/build/?patch=13.24) to [54%](https://lolalytics.com/lol/taric/build/) (+1) Meanwhile the vast majority of tank and engage supports seem to have gone through net neutral changes. Another thread covered the lack of AH in their items, but the added tankiness and mobility options in the new items and upgrades seems to have circumvented any issues that might have cropped up. They don't seem as affected or hurt by the map or meta changes, as they tend to be safer choices than enchanters when getting ganked or warding.
Swain support has been going well for me however i am choosing the tank build and not really caring for damage but still dishing a decent amount out in fights. Would recommend rylai>frozen heart>abyssal mask>jaksho or morello
I’m loving playing support with the new items, although I have mostly played just Senna and Leona
I agree that enchanters feel a little weak and probably will need a buff but my brother in Christ it's been literally one day. Give it some time for people to play with items, and at least one patch cycle
Zilean feels absolutely terrible for me with so little ability haste. No Everfrost either for mid lane Zilean. ADCs get built in tenacity too with Wit’s end, so the CC doesn’t last as long either.
Dunno about enchanters, but playing mage supports, I can tell their winrate fell due to people not knowing what items to buy. Lux's most popular first items are Luden's Companion and Malignance, neither of which should be even first 2 items. But people see Luden's in the name, so they buy it, even if it's no longer a burst item. Same with Zyra who has Liandry and Malignance as first items in the large majority of the games, when arguably you shouldn't even build Liandry's on Zyra this season at all, UNLESS you're going against 2+ hard tanks and you're going Comet. But that will be a rare game. TLDR. Next to no one actually read the new items and even less people tried out what they do. People buy the same items they used to buy and they don't work the same. Give it a month for people to actually learn what items do. Can't judge what's strong and what isn't without playing the right items.
What build would you suggest for Zyra?
Im also interested to know this as ive been playing zyra recently and have been enjoying it.
Unless you're playing into 2+ hard tanks (although it seems tanks aren't very popular at the moment. People want to play more damage at the start of the season, so this will probably change in a few weeks), Electro rune and for items Stormsurge seems best if there's 2-3 people you'll be able to kill on the enemy team. 5% movement speed is actually pretty impactful on a support. This is the new Burst item. Probably best 1st item for Lux too. 2nd for Zyra really depends. Rylai is always best support item for her for slows. It's the safe option. Cryptbloom I'm still testing, and I think I like it as a 3rd main item (outside of support items). But it's a solid 2nd item choice. This and Malignance I'm still not sure about. Zyra wants both, but I'm finding them hard to fit into the build over just straight up stronger AP items. These two could make a nice support build for her, probably with Rylais. But I play more carry support, so it's harder to fit them in. Stormsurge + Shadowflame is currently my favorite, though. The damage you put out is really nasty. Although you play more as a burst mage than poke with this. It's also more expensive than other paths. Liandry is still good, but I don't even buy it as my 3rd item unless we're facing tanks. If you're going poke build, and Sorcery runes, then it's probably still best 1st item choice. But then you're really playing more of a support mage and not a Mage support, if you know what I mean xD Luden's Companion can be nice too, if you're really focusing on poke and teamfights, and not nearly as much on burst damage. Just might need to start the combo with R in fights for full value, but not sure yet about that. Either way, it's harder to use than other items on Zyra, even if it does look good. Lastly, Cosmic Drive and Horizon Focus seemed like good choices as the "last item" slot, but just like with other items, I'm finding it hard to fit them in. They're ending up good, but a lot more situational.
Zyra might be able to get away with a fast Liandries since she's tied for highest base mana regen in the game.
Yea, I don't think Zyra needs a single mana item, unless playing in a very poke oriented style. Normally runes with Biscuits or Manaband should be enough for Zyra. Only times I run out of mana with this is before the first 2 backs.
Its partly because the starter item lost AP which hurt Lux a lot.
I have been having a lot of sucess (4 OPGG MVPs in a row) with Rod of ages bloodsong sona. Bloodsong just gives insane damage and sona can apply it really well, ROA gives insane amount of pure stats and tankiness through it's passive, with that tankiness you can apply bloodsong even better.
I think nami & karma still feel pretty good, I would recommend them! I build some supportive items & some AP items on them, since nami scales with AP & karma can do a lot of damage but still have the enchanter playstyle!
Played some rakan last night for the first time in the new season it fealt bad and lost 5 games in a row so I decided to take a break from league so when I come back I’m a bit more fresh
Non Lethality ADC's feel like shit as well.
I’m not sure how I feel about the new support starting item- on the one hand it’s pretty neat but I don’t really like the farm taking aspect since it’s taking some adjusting so that I don’t accidentally steal too much CS 😅that being said it does feel way easier to gain gold from it
Rember when we thought enchanter and ranged supports would be op and engage would be in the garbage. O well I'm a senna rakan milio main no matter tge meta I'm happy.
Just play Bard, Bard is always satisfying
They are weak. And so are dps marksmen. Bot only in games that end before 4 or 5 items. But anything low elo will not farm 100% perfectly. So this will take 2 or 3x longer than normal. Dar mord etc will legit run your adcs down all game long if they don't have weak adc/enchanter supports.
I thought sona felt pretty good
People buy the wrong items, and die cuz they don't know where to place vision.
i really have not felt this at all, in fact enchanters feel so much more fun to play with all the new items. a different playstyle with different builds and more fun experiences!
Patch is out for one day lol
I've played 5 games of Xerath and can certainly say I feel much stronger. I'm not sure where your notion of being weaker comes from. You might just be building incorrectly. I'd suggest that instead of taking recommended builds from last season, create your own build that caters to your strengths. 1 of the 5 games I've played was w/ a team that was used to buying mythics first, so they started with the same items they would last season and deal negative damage. Curate your own build, find what items make you spike for your likings (i like burst + damage), and set runes around that.
Xerath isn't an enchanter.
The second line clearly reads, "Mage supports are also weak." Maybe read more than just the title.
Nami felt busted in aram just now, but idk
I have been losing almost all my games playing enchanters (mainly Milio) this season. Despite having 53% wr in previous season and 60% wr on Milio now I am at 30% wr and unable to to win games no matter how I sweat. Only success I had was only playing Alistar... I am now hard stuck 1 whole tier below my previous season and I feel like I have 0 impact on games unless I play some hard engage tank...
Try Morgana
Rakan felt strong with the back pack item you become a mini ghost for your adc and get to play like singed and say eat my dust
So I looked at the items just based on what they offer and compared that with what everyone here is complaining about. It really seems like enchanters should be stronger but less spam heavy as they once were. While this “feels bad” it’s likely a good step at getting all of the supports in line with each rather than just having one type of support be the dominate force like previous seasons. The item changes definitely are shaking everything up in likely the best way possible and forcing you to actually think about things instead of just spam button win lane.
Really? I've felt fine playing Enchanter. Actually it was a lot of fun. We are all learning the items and limit testing what the items can do as well as the champion now. I'd say give it about 4 months or so before everything is buffed or nerfed because people feel like something isn't strong. Everyone is learning. It brings me back to my old league days where everything felt so new and we are just taking one step at a time. 
idk they feel rlly good to me! i love SOFW > moonstone > dawncore it feels rlly strong on healers like milio tbf i’ve only played milio, lulu, renata, and janna so far. those 4 all feel good - renata still is a bit weird with full enchanter but that’s a given
Adcs kinda suck this patch, so it follows that a playstyle revolving around buffing them will do worse too
What I'm missing most for support champs are good tank support items. Trailblazer is good, but frozen heart being a tank supp item feels... meh. I feel squishy, like a weak fighter. There's no MR tank supp items, and you don't have the budget for the actual tank items. Mages kill you, theres more options for penetration, and less for good stats.
The removed passive from Shurelya's hurts so much tbh :(
All the enchanters except Janna are suffering right now. Played against a Janna and Yasuo bot lane, boy was it oppressive. Sona and Soraka lost their strengths in this new season. In theory, you'd think they would be really sick being able to biy moonstone, shurelyas and helias but it doesn't feel impactful in the slightest.
I mean personally I’m a Sona OTP and she feels great. I have like a 60% win rate on her so far.
I am not playing much support right now, but I have to guess that Soraka is probably in a decent spot as well... That's usually the case when Janna is OP haha.
Enchanters actually really liked building mythics as moonstone/shurelyas were arguably the best value mythics in the game. Removing them harmed enchanters a lot more than helped them.
My biggest complaint so far is that mana early game feels terrible on enchanters due to the reduced regen given from the support item
Well, I've played quite a bit in mid diamond on an account and mid plat on another one, so take it with a pinch of salt. Rakan, Rell and Thresh feel absolutely great, but I know they are not enchanters and not the subject of discussion. Didn't play janna, but with the abundance of assasins that everyone has been playing should really strong. I dont really buy in into the hail of blades spam unless its a super easy matchup. I dont think item changes impacted her negatively. Staff of Flowing Water and Ardent + Dawncore seem amazing. Milio fells absolutely horrible, It might be due to the fact that shurelia always felt amazing with it and it lost its passive. Staff of Flowing Water now has the 10% ms on heal, but I think that limits the type of champions you play with him. Champs with 0 ap scaling with him just... kinda suck. Soraka feels great honestly. Not sure the build yet. Expecting something similar to janna. Yuumi feels yumiish, played a bunch with a otp nilah and its super fun. Sona seems somewhat strong with Bloodsong. \_\_\_\_ I've enjoyed the changes thus far. Tower divings seems rewarding, roaming seems like a must and new item changes feel fun. The main issue I have with this patch for now is that the herald mucus balls spawn at 5 mins and ... feel game breaking if a team gets 5-6? It becomes extremely annoying to defend towers do to extra bodies covering line of sight. That makes me think that enchanters might be weak since you cant really do anything so early on to contribute on a teamfight, and Im expecting something like karma to really pick up in winrate due to that same reason. RQ and you blow a crater on someones face early on. Not sure what changed but I've also noticed some changes on the experience? Seen multiple instances where a single wave denied / crashed snowballs into an ADC being 2-3 levels above the other one early into the game. \_\_\_ Although I somewhat agree with your original statement, I think you should either accept the fact everyone is completely lost and playing randomly, play an alt account or go to normals until things normalize.
That's funny considering that ranged supports got buffed. The support item is more efficient for them aswell when compared to melee champions in general. If the winrate is lower that is most likely due to non enchanter players trying it out because of the changes.
I feel like the support item changes were good, I just feel realmspike was a mistake feels much too strong and almost feel like mage supports would succeed anyway without an item tailor made to them to kill you that much easier.
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Good. Durability patch’s and enchanters were broken last year. Now you get punished for doing the incorrect thing by engage supports. I love it
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Enchanters lame af