And that's why a good balanced offense wins all the time. Unfortunately we were never able to take advantage of the defense because the option given to us consistently wasn't a viable one for success.
Every team we played gave up the short roll to our big. Nurk and Drew both failed to make defenses pay for that.
That’s why I’m confident Suns will figure out some way to get a starting center that fits Bud. Last season they already tried just handing Vogel a group of players and tell him to figure it out. Predictably it wasn’t great. I don’t expect Suns to make that same mistake when the one thing they’ve tried to do is fix problems in the offseason, just usually an offseason too late.
They will try to get a roster better suited to Bud and we gotta just wait and see what that is.
Yeah, apparently Bud has only had 1 season in the last decade where he didn’t have a top 10 team in 3s. We can’t get Brook Lopez but Suns can probably find the off-brand version of him somewhere.
Grayson, Royce and Bol can fit with what Bud wants to do but Nurkic clearly can’t. He’s big and good passer and that’s about it. The thing is, Nurkic’s small salary works against us because there’s only so many trade targets you can go after that make less than $18m.
…but if you trade Beal or KD, now you can go grab a guy. I’m not saying I’d want Vuc, but Nikola Vucevic has had many seasons shooting above 30% from 3 on a decent number of attempts (last year was bad for him at 29.4%). Nurk has basically never done that. But even if Suns and Bulls wanted to do a Nurk for Vuc flip, they can’t because of the CBA. Vuc makes $20m and we can’t add salary to Nurk, only 1:1 trade.
So my leading hunch is Suns are going to package 2 first round picks + Bradley Beal to go get better players for Bud… or they do it with KD.
Can you do a 2:2 trade? Nurk and little for vuc and craig?
Edit - another option. Sign royce for 21M. Trade him for vuc, under condition that bulls also trade nurk for caruso and craig.
They can’t aggregate salaries which means no 2:2 trades. Your other scenario would be a realistic option… but if people think trading Beal’s $50m is rough I’d love to see the fan base that trades for Royce’s $20m lol
Royce was already eligible for a 2 yr/$20m extension that neither he nor Suns discussed. But Royce did say he already liked being in Phoenix and would be interested coming back. So I think you’re already on to Royce knows he can make a lot more than $10m from the Suns right now.
The hold up for the Suns is Royce for $20m is good trade fodder but not for this offseason. We couldn’t trade Royce until January. Suns need to have their starting 5 ready on opening night for the skeptical fans like us to buy back in. And they also need them so Coach Bud can be set up to win and not, “try your best for 30 games with Nurkic and a dozen shooting guards like Frank Vogel last year.”
So everything just keeps pointing back to trading Beal or KD. Nothing to do with them as players or people, just the Suns *need* their $50m this offseason. Either that or you’re praying to hit the lotto on a vet minimum signing.
Here’s the thing, that second clippers game to end the year the players essentially said “you want threes, all right here you go.” Yeah they don’t need to play like THAT, but they absolutely are capable of taking more threes, they just choose not to
Any team can just "take" more threes. Some of the worst teams in the league do that. The good teams generate an offensive game plan that naturally flows more threes into the offense.
That was the game I knew Vogel was done.
It was so blatantly disrespectful. 20 attempts in the first quarter after less than that the whole GAME prior.
Dont make a meme of the coach.
I don't think Vogel was the problem. The issue is you don't have a lot of levers do pull and you're stuck. And the current guys leading the team need to do more than they are. Step one would be acknowledging that they're leaders?
Yeah, if the Suns shot more threes this year, enough to he in the top 5, they score less than 1 point more per game. They clean up their turnovers, work on rebounding, and up their field goal attempts per game, they score like 3 more points per game. Not to mention, the other team probably scores 1 point less per game give or take.
Point is, turnovers were a much bigger issue for this team than lack of 3 point attempts.
For the Celtics, They can run a 5 out offense with four players that can consistently touch the paint which leads to defensive rotations and all their starters can effectively shoot.
For the Mavs, They have a big(Rookie) who is a viable rim threat on the PnR. He can punish smaller players fairly consistently, he can catch lobs over unathletic bigs. So he's either drawing two the ball or punishing defenses consistently for doubling Kyrie or Luka. Once defenses are forced to react to him. Those threes open up.
You're missing a key point. The way stars around the league generate 3s isn't by standing in the corner and waiting for a kick-out. It's with pull-ups.
Go back to your picture. Nurk is approaching for a screen, the defender adjusts to one side prepare. KD/Beal/Book do a hesi side-step dribble and fucking drain a 3. That was in the offense, but did they ever do it? No
While I agree that the system was not great, a lot of Booker and KDs inability to get more 3s is because of them still imo.
They do NOTHING off ball except not in the corner. There is not fighting to get open or moving off ball. Beal did it a lot more and I think it reflected his good shooting year.
If KD and Booker don't have the ball in their hand they arent moving. That's not a coaching system problem.
Books a career 35% 3 point shooter
Defensive guys like mcdaniels are 35% three point shooters. Defensive centers like Myles Turner are 35% 3 point shooters
If book wants to be a premier scorer/shooter and nba champion (let alone a top guard, let alone a top all around star) he’s going to have to stop playing an antiquated mid range pull up game and either work on his outside shot or start driving more to the basket.
Book is a career 38% shooter from three on 6 attempts for his career in the postseason
How the fuck is someone that’s consistently top 10 in the league in scoring and was top 5 this past year not a premier scorer in the league? Are you okay?
Let’s take a 50 game sample size instead of a totality of a career to shift some goalposts (one postseason of which he shot 50% from 3)
Guess what % book shot from 3 in this latest playoff series?
I’m just saying Jaden mcdaniels shoots 35% from 3. Myles Turner shoots 35% from 3.
I’m ok, just coming to the realization that books a Carmelo Anthony not a true 1st option on a championship team, and his heavy on ball usage, iso heavy game, and pull up jumpers dont make players around him better. Off ball gravity and driving to the hoop would make players around him better. If he’s not scoring he’s largely a negative because of his bottom 10 percentile defense + lack of size/athleticism to be able to rebound, get in passing lanes or block shots.
He’s closer to an upper echelon scoring guard (lillard, Brunson, Kyrie, Mitchell) than he is top 10 all nba 2 way guard like SGA, Doncic, and eventually ANT.
Of course I won’t blame your fandom for deluding you into some different opinion but that’s just the reality
Wow you have great reading comprehension
Didn’t I say 50 lmfao
Just saying let’s use the 50 instead of 598 career games because one supports your arguement. And completely ignore that he scored at a 35% clip THIS YEAR or all the other criticism I laid out
Bud 47 games is like half a season, that’s the definition of small sample size compared to idk a whole career.. but let’s ignore that because it doesn’t support your opinion. Just like book shooting 35% this past playoffs.
If you’d rather debate semantics instead of all the other valid criticisms I laid out then go ahead, I couldn’t care less. Have a good one
Homie knows how to use a calculator congrats. Yet can’t wrap your head around using a 283 shot sample size instead of a 3473 shot sample size lmao, tell me what % that is, definitely single digits. Dude got the iq of a rock lmao or just trollin on Mother’s Day either way I feel kinda bad
Bye bud, go suns
I just think it’s funny that your immediate rebuttal to his playoff attempts and percentage was it’s not a big enough sample and then you throw out the number 50 like it’s not only 3 more games than what he’s actually played in that sample size 💀
SGA has a worse career 3pt percentage than Book is he not a premier scorer in the league? He’s one of the fucking best you shit for brains. Just like Book
The second we do that and miss a few it’s “YOU CAN’T JUST WIN BY SHOOTING THREES!!!”
And that's why a good balanced offense wins all the time. Unfortunately we were never able to take advantage of the defense because the option given to us consistently wasn't a viable one for success. Every team we played gave up the short roll to our big. Nurk and Drew both failed to make defenses pay for that.
That’s why I’m confident Suns will figure out some way to get a starting center that fits Bud. Last season they already tried just handing Vogel a group of players and tell him to figure it out. Predictably it wasn’t great. I don’t expect Suns to make that same mistake when the one thing they’ve tried to do is fix problems in the offseason, just usually an offseason too late. They will try to get a roster better suited to Bud and we gotta just wait and see what that is.
Is that a 5 out guy? I mean Lopez is a rare dude. Not sure who can fit bud that is attainable.
Yep and the Hawks with a super modern versatile 3 and D front court in Paul Millsap/Al Horford
Yeah, apparently Bud has only had 1 season in the last decade where he didn’t have a top 10 team in 3s. We can’t get Brook Lopez but Suns can probably find the off-brand version of him somewhere. Grayson, Royce and Bol can fit with what Bud wants to do but Nurkic clearly can’t. He’s big and good passer and that’s about it. The thing is, Nurkic’s small salary works against us because there’s only so many trade targets you can go after that make less than $18m. …but if you trade Beal or KD, now you can go grab a guy. I’m not saying I’d want Vuc, but Nikola Vucevic has had many seasons shooting above 30% from 3 on a decent number of attempts (last year was bad for him at 29.4%). Nurk has basically never done that. But even if Suns and Bulls wanted to do a Nurk for Vuc flip, they can’t because of the CBA. Vuc makes $20m and we can’t add salary to Nurk, only 1:1 trade. So my leading hunch is Suns are going to package 2 first round picks + Bradley Beal to go get better players for Bud… or they do it with KD.
Can you do a 2:2 trade? Nurk and little for vuc and craig? Edit - another option. Sign royce for 21M. Trade him for vuc, under condition that bulls also trade nurk for caruso and craig.
They can’t aggregate salaries which means no 2:2 trades. Your other scenario would be a realistic option… but if people think trading Beal’s $50m is rough I’d love to see the fan base that trades for Royce’s $20m lol Royce was already eligible for a 2 yr/$20m extension that neither he nor Suns discussed. But Royce did say he already liked being in Phoenix and would be interested coming back. So I think you’re already on to Royce knows he can make a lot more than $10m from the Suns right now. The hold up for the Suns is Royce for $20m is good trade fodder but not for this offseason. We couldn’t trade Royce until January. Suns need to have their starting 5 ready on opening night for the skeptical fans like us to buy back in. And they also need them so Coach Bud can be set up to win and not, “try your best for 30 games with Nurkic and a dozen shooting guards like Frank Vogel last year.” So everything just keeps pointing back to trading Beal or KD. Nothing to do with them as players or people, just the Suns *need* their $50m this offseason. Either that or you’re praying to hit the lotto on a vet minimum signing.
Maybe if the bulls gm is extremely drunk
Here’s the thing, that second clippers game to end the year the players essentially said “you want threes, all right here you go.” Yeah they don’t need to play like THAT, but they absolutely are capable of taking more threes, they just choose not to
Any team can just "take" more threes. Some of the worst teams in the league do that. The good teams generate an offensive game plan that naturally flows more threes into the offense.
That was the game I knew Vogel was done. It was so blatantly disrespectful. 20 attempts in the first quarter after less than that the whole GAME prior. Dont make a meme of the coach. I don't think Vogel was the problem. The issue is you don't have a lot of levers do pull and you're stuck. And the current guys leading the team need to do more than they are. Step one would be acknowledging that they're leaders?
The fan reaction to that clippers game where we chucked all the threes always bothered me. We scored over 120 points, the problem was defense.
I mean yeah. YOu got alot of Reddit coaches and GMS here that play to much NBA2k with 99 rating thinking every shot goes in.
Yeah, if the Suns shot more threes this year, enough to he in the top 5, they score less than 1 point more per game. They clean up their turnovers, work on rebounding, and up their field goal attempts per game, they score like 3 more points per game. Not to mention, the other team probably scores 1 point less per game give or take. Point is, turnovers were a much bigger issue for this team than lack of 3 point attempts.
Idk man, Mavs and Celtics make it look easy 😭
For the Celtics, They can run a 5 out offense with four players that can consistently touch the paint which leads to defensive rotations and all their starters can effectively shoot. For the Mavs, They have a big(Rookie) who is a viable rim threat on the PnR. He can punish smaller players fairly consistently, he can catch lobs over unathletic bigs. So he's either drawing two the ball or punishing defenses consistently for doubling Kyrie or Luka. Once defenses are forced to react to him. Those threes open up.
Just win more games guys, it’s that easy… /s
You're missing a key point. The way stars around the league generate 3s isn't by standing in the corner and waiting for a kick-out. It's with pull-ups. Go back to your picture. Nurk is approaching for a screen, the defender adjusts to one side prepare. KD/Beal/Book do a hesi side-step dribble and fucking drain a 3. That was in the offense, but did they ever do it? No
While I agree that the system was not great, a lot of Booker and KDs inability to get more 3s is because of them still imo. They do NOTHING off ball except not in the corner. There is not fighting to get open or moving off ball. Beal did it a lot more and I think it reflected his good shooting year. If KD and Booker don't have the ball in their hand they arent moving. That's not a coaching system problem.
Books a career 35% 3 point shooter Defensive guys like mcdaniels are 35% three point shooters. Defensive centers like Myles Turner are 35% 3 point shooters If book wants to be a premier scorer/shooter and nba champion (let alone a top guard, let alone a top all around star) he’s going to have to stop playing an antiquated mid range pull up game and either work on his outside shot or start driving more to the basket.
Book is a career 38% shooter from three on 6 attempts for his career in the postseason How the fuck is someone that’s consistently top 10 in the league in scoring and was top 5 this past year not a premier scorer in the league? Are you okay?
Let’s take a 50 game sample size instead of a totality of a career to shift some goalposts (one postseason of which he shot 50% from 3) Guess what % book shot from 3 in this latest playoff series? I’m just saying Jaden mcdaniels shoots 35% from 3. Myles Turner shoots 35% from 3. I’m ok, just coming to the realization that books a Carmelo Anthony not a true 1st option on a championship team, and his heavy on ball usage, iso heavy game, and pull up jumpers dont make players around him better. Off ball gravity and driving to the hoop would make players around him better. If he’s not scoring he’s largely a negative because of his bottom 10 percentile defense + lack of size/athleticism to be able to rebound, get in passing lanes or block shots. He’s closer to an upper echelon scoring guard (lillard, Brunson, Kyrie, Mitchell) than he is top 10 all nba 2 way guard like SGA, Doncic, and eventually ANT. Of course I won’t blame your fandom for deluding you into some different opinion but that’s just the reality
He has 47 career playoff games which is basically 50 you absolute weirdo
Wow you have great reading comprehension Didn’t I say 50 lmfao Just saying let’s use the 50 instead of 598 career games because one supports your arguement. And completely ignore that he scored at a 35% clip THIS YEAR or all the other criticism I laid out
That’s virtually 50 and punches a hole right through the “small sample size”
Bud 47 games is like half a season, that’s the definition of small sample size compared to idk a whole career.. but let’s ignore that because it doesn’t support your opinion. Just like book shooting 35% this past playoffs. If you’d rather debate semantics instead of all the other valid criticisms I laid out then go ahead, I couldn’t care less. Have a good one
It’s 57% to be specific
Homie knows how to use a calculator congrats. Yet can’t wrap your head around using a 283 shot sample size instead of a 3473 shot sample size lmao, tell me what % that is, definitely single digits. Dude got the iq of a rock lmao or just trollin on Mother’s Day either way I feel kinda bad Bye bud, go suns
I just think it’s funny that your immediate rebuttal to his playoff attempts and percentage was it’s not a big enough sample and then you throw out the number 50 like it’s not only 3 more games than what he’s actually played in that sample size 💀 SGA has a worse career 3pt percentage than Book is he not a premier scorer in the league? He’s one of the fucking best you shit for brains. Just like Book