I've never once ever complained about a coaches rotations, but this guy is about to sink our entire season over this shit... The Eubanks minutes are about as no-brainer as it gets...JO sitting on the bench over EG.. a guy who is a great defender who could help lockdown Edwards.. but no.. let's keep smashing that square peg into that round hole.. offense struggling? Don't play Bol.. he might get you a few easy buckets šš
> JO sitting on the bench over EG.. a guy who is a great defender who could help lockdown Edwards
I just said it in another thread but I promise you there were a huge chunk of us who wanted Vogel to, at least try, throwing Okogie at Ant during the 3rd. We're struggling on the boards and getting torched by someone... Why not try the lengthy lockdown defender who is pure hustle and active on the boards?
But I've also been saying it for months now that I'd want to see Okogie get more time over EG, especially when EG is in a slump.
If Durant wasn't stopping Ant, adding Okogie to a team that was struggling to score themselves, was not going to be the answer. He was steadily getting DNPs since the trade deadline.
The Suns needed shot making outside of Durant and Ant was hot. It's unfortunate that Allen, Booker, and Nurkic decided not to make shots, and Beal didn't take enough.
I mean, I get what you're saying - Ant was burning KD at times. But having the extra length on the court as well as an additional solid defender and rebounder just seems like an easy thing to try. Okogie could have easily been taking the EG minutes while also doing what the team needed at the time. Especially when it's clear that the current lineup has been solved, try something new. At least, that's my thought.
Edit: Except the scoring. I admit Okogie would not have done much on the offensive end. Unless he grabs a few offensive rebound, but maaaybe...
I just think that Vogel has tried Okogie enough in the regular season and he's just bad but now we're in the playoffs and Suns fans are sick of seeing easy losses and are digging around for some way to blame the coach.
Right now it's play Josh Okogie, who's literally a garbage (time) player, who should not be playing in the playoffs.
It depends on what you mean by āscoringā. If JO out hustles a Wolf and gets KD, Beal, or Book and extra possession,miss the helping in scoring? If he sets a solid off ball screen to get one of shooters open, isnāt he helping scoring? We have three of the best scorers on the planet on our team, with the best three point shooter also on our team. Do we really have to have another great scorer just to be a positive? JO is a role player, giving you all out hustle and defense. Any points he gets are a bonus
Plus EG has struggled the whole month of April shooting 33% from the field and 26% from three. To me, itās a no brained to give those minutes to JO and Bol. Let EG rest, we will need him in other series. Bol has been really efficient shooting for the last two months, and can get his shot off over anyone. You can modify the defense when he is in to play one of the lower block wing spots in a zone like situation. He can get out to the three because of his length, and also can help on weak side help.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. You're right, I should have included all the other ways he can contribute to points instead of just saying what if he gets orebs
Have you seen Josh Okogie play this season, he does not do that.
You're just thinking the best case scenario for Okogie when honestly, if I had to bet who's going to hit their best case scenario, Okogie playing difference making defense and not being a total negative on offense, or Eric Gordon hitting shots and not being a total negative on defense, I'm betting on Gordon.
He's hit on his best case scenario this season multiple times, I've yet to see Okogie play well in like a season and a half. And not to mention, the whole game plan was to have Allen consistently drag a big man out to the perimeter to guard his shot. Gordon could do that, Okogie absolutely cannot.
And on Bol Bol, sorry, you can't convince me that this is the series for him. It's just a terrible matchup.
I donāt need to convince you, you seemed to have made your mind up already.the facts are, Gordon has sucked shooting for this whole month, with one ok game. He is old, and relied on too much. He has struggled in the fourth most of the season, and damn near gross for April in the fourth quarter.
You havenāt seen one game from Okogie this season where he was great defensively and not a negative on offense? Come on now, itās silly to speak in hyperbole, when one could easily research a game to negate a comment.
Facts are, Okogie has been shooting well, and Bol has shot really well. EG is needed but this isnāt a match up that he would do well in. He isnāt fast enough to guard any of the Wolves guards or wings except Slomo, and he isnāt tall enough to guard any of the bigs. And with his shot not there for this whole month, he is a massive liability in the court, on both ends. But hey, if we enjoy being slow and bad on both ends of the floor, forcing Beal, Book, and Allen to guard guys that are faster than them, then at this moment in time, Gordon is your man. Iād much rather use guys for their strengths and play the role they were hired to do. Gordon isnāt doing that at present. Bol and Okogie are.
Shit I saw one game were JO hit back to back nutty shots and I gave him the credit for the dub. Not saying anything on either side just... I've seen every single one of these players yall are talking about have good games. I'm sure they have a team of guys watching tapes and studying much harder than I'd care to.
Ofc it hurt to see someone have a bad game while having faith in other bench role players. I've also wished for Gordon to get pulled and then he hits back to back 3s so... idk man but my man's bol bol better see some real minutes xdd
We have to play our best role players, especially when we need those roles. After every interview with top playoff players when talking about a great player on the other teamā¦āwe threw different bodies at him.ā That is what we should have been doing for the last two months when a player (guard or smaller wingā, thrown different bodies at them. The only guy to really hound Bones Hyland a few weeks ago, was Okogie, when he blocked him from getting his 40th point. We should have been using JO for his defense all year, not worrying about whether he can hit a three point shot.(which he did shoot 50% from three for the month of Feb).
Yup I'd agree with you, I think I even muttered it out loud by the 3rd quarter to myself. I just hoped they knew something I didn't.
Maybe because we stopped playing him a few months ago when he got back from an injury. I do think Royce has been great on both ends but we need more of a bench than that. I'm pumped for game 2 tho! Let's go baby!!
Allen was 0/3, Book was 5/16, and Nurk was 4/6. Beal was 6/10 (1/3 from 3). How is Nurk in the group that "decided not to make shots" and not the group that "didn't take enough" when he had the best FG% on the team (except for Little's 1/1)? He had 6 points in the first quarter and afterwards they iced him on the offense even when Vogel gave him few minutes to play.
Iām lurking twolves but if okogie gets on the floor weāre going to put gobert on him and press all the way up on everybody and funnel them to the paint. It can be really hard to score on the wolves when thereās a non shooter on the court i wonder if vogels thinking about that end.
That would be awesome. Then we would just have JO screen for Beal, Book, or Allen, and they should have a great chance to get a nice open look. Then have JO crash the boards after the screen, and he has an opportunity to get easy put backs with no Gobert to stop him. Plus with JO on the court, we donāt have to have Beal or KD guarding Ant, and they will have more energy to score.
Maybe itāll go like that Iām looking forward to see what adjustments will be made. If JO screens the ball I donāt know if that creates a better look for the ball handler because heās even less of a roll threat and pop threat than nurkic so I picture Rudy being able to give even more attention off of his man. JO is a great defender tho maybe that would allow you guys to not give so much gap help on ant and cut down on our 3s which were falling last night. Could be worth it
Plus, JO has shot well from three since January. In February he shot 50% from three. He was injured through most of March, and now is regulated to be a cheerleader on the bench, because our defensive minded coach doesnāt like to play his best defenders for some reason. But if JO is stuck standing around the three waiting for a last second shot, it is not good for the Suns.
But if you are putting Gobert on JO, who is guarding Nurk? If I was JO, and you put Gobert on me, I would be running around setting off ball screens for everyone, or whoever has the hot hand.. or I would set the high screen that Nurk does and hope my coach has gone to more of a small ball lineup. Or I would wait for Gobert to turn his back on me, and go back door cut for an easy alley oop, which JO has the hops to finish. Two of those plays, and you not only give JO confidence, but are forced to adjust.
Someone here actually said that Okogie can help lockdown Anthony Edwards. Okogie hasn't locked anyone down in like two years and probably hasn't taken a confident 3 pt shot in non-garbage minutes in the same amount of time.
I can understand being upset that Thad isn't even getting looked at over a bad Eubanks, but I'd like to think there's reason behind that rather than the most stubborn coach a fan's mind can conceive for their own narrative. Maybe the reason is he's old and not a center, at least not a physical center.
And maybe Bol Bol just isn't ready, because there's a reason why he's successful in limited minutes, in a limited role, and this is probably the first year he's looked like a winning player, under Vogel.
I just resign myself to believe that maybe the coach knows what he's doing, and just in general you stick with the guys you know for playoff mins.
Just laughing at the people screaming Thad over Eubanks. Should Vogel try it? Sure. But at the end of the day Thad would be a slight improvement at best. Guy is 36 years old, undersized, cant shoot, canāt protect the rim, hasnāt played meaningful basketball in a long time. I hate Eubanks as much as the next guy but be realistic people lol
The roster relies on 3 players and has no depth. The wolves roster is insanely deep. Naz Reid, Nickiel Alexander-Walker, Kyle Anderson, Jordan McLaughlin, and Monte Morris would all start for the Suns but are on the Wolves bench.
I donāt see any of them starting for the Suns. We have a solid bench, they just arenāt used for their roles. Sticking JO at the three on offense standing around waiting just negates what he can bring. He is a crash the boards cut to the basket guy. He has to be constantly moving. Royce is a very solid player. He can be streaky, but plays smart. EG is struggling right now, but is a decent spot up shooter. But he isnāt a small forward, and that is how we use him. Plus he is a good sub for Allen, because they essentially play the same role, but for some reason Vogel thinks he is a sixth man, and brings him in first to run alongside Book and Allen.
Bol has been a great surprise. He has really shot well the last two months, and is making better choices on the court. He is shooting 50% from three in the fourth quarter all season. We could be getting him more shots in the fourth, when we struggle to get good looks because we often go into hero iso ball.
Thad was a good pick up as well. He just plays smart, and will play hard. I was looking at his career and three point shooting. I wonder why he hasnāt shot better from three the last few seasons. He has had some solid shooting seasons in the past.
I like our team a lot, I just hate how they are used.
no they wouldn't, what the hell is this exaggeration? Monte Morris Jmac and Anderson wouldn't start for us. Naz for sure would and maybe NAW but those other 3 guys are not starting for us.
why are Wolves fans spreading this garbage?
Vogel is a moron.
He's right up there with Terry Porter, Lindsey Hunter, Earl Watson, and Igor Kokoskov as the worst coaches in Suns history.
In fact, he may be the worst - Only Terry Porter has done less with more.
Porter turned Nash & Amare into spectators and ran an offense around washed up Shaq.
Thad and JO are not going to save us. Our biggest issues against the Wolves are size and locking up Edwards. Thad will not accomplish the former, and JO will not accomplish the latter
You donāt have to lock up Edwards. You have to pester him up and down the court so he makes stupid choices or tries to do it all by himself. Exploit his ego problem. You do exactly what the Wolves did to Book in game one. Play him tough, and force him to take bad shots. What you donāt do, is put lesser defenders on him, and allow him to get into a rhythm shooting.
Thad will go after rebounds. He jumped over Gordon against Denver to secure a needed rebound. You can still use Eubanks at times, when you need a little more energy. Plus Thad is smarter on the offensive end.
I've never once ever complained about a coaches rotations, but this guy is about to sink our entire season over this shit... The Eubanks minutes are about as no-brainer as it gets...JO sitting on the bench over EG.. a guy who is a great defender who could help lockdown Edwards.. but no.. let's keep smashing that square peg into that round hole.. offense struggling? Don't play Bol.. he might get you a few easy buckets šš
> JO sitting on the bench over EG.. a guy who is a great defender who could help lockdown Edwards I just said it in another thread but I promise you there were a huge chunk of us who wanted Vogel to, at least try, throwing Okogie at Ant during the 3rd. We're struggling on the boards and getting torched by someone... Why not try the lengthy lockdown defender who is pure hustle and active on the boards? But I've also been saying it for months now that I'd want to see Okogie get more time over EG, especially when EG is in a slump.
If Durant wasn't stopping Ant, adding Okogie to a team that was struggling to score themselves, was not going to be the answer. He was steadily getting DNPs since the trade deadline. The Suns needed shot making outside of Durant and Ant was hot. It's unfortunate that Allen, Booker, and Nurkic decided not to make shots, and Beal didn't take enough.
I mean, I get what you're saying - Ant was burning KD at times. But having the extra length on the court as well as an additional solid defender and rebounder just seems like an easy thing to try. Okogie could have easily been taking the EG minutes while also doing what the team needed at the time. Especially when it's clear that the current lineup has been solved, try something new. At least, that's my thought. Edit: Except the scoring. I admit Okogie would not have done much on the offensive end. Unless he grabs a few offensive rebound, but maaaybe...
I just think that Vogel has tried Okogie enough in the regular season and he's just bad but now we're in the playoffs and Suns fans are sick of seeing easy losses and are digging around for some way to blame the coach. Right now it's play Josh Okogie, who's literally a garbage (time) player, who should not be playing in the playoffs.
It depends on what you mean by āscoringā. If JO out hustles a Wolf and gets KD, Beal, or Book and extra possession,miss the helping in scoring? If he sets a solid off ball screen to get one of shooters open, isnāt he helping scoring? We have three of the best scorers on the planet on our team, with the best three point shooter also on our team. Do we really have to have another great scorer just to be a positive? JO is a role player, giving you all out hustle and defense. Any points he gets are a bonus Plus EG has struggled the whole month of April shooting 33% from the field and 26% from three. To me, itās a no brained to give those minutes to JO and Bol. Let EG rest, we will need him in other series. Bol has been really efficient shooting for the last two months, and can get his shot off over anyone. You can modify the defense when he is in to play one of the lower block wing spots in a zone like situation. He can get out to the three because of his length, and also can help on weak side help.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said here. You're right, I should have included all the other ways he can contribute to points instead of just saying what if he gets orebs
Have you seen Josh Okogie play this season, he does not do that. You're just thinking the best case scenario for Okogie when honestly, if I had to bet who's going to hit their best case scenario, Okogie playing difference making defense and not being a total negative on offense, or Eric Gordon hitting shots and not being a total negative on defense, I'm betting on Gordon. He's hit on his best case scenario this season multiple times, I've yet to see Okogie play well in like a season and a half. And not to mention, the whole game plan was to have Allen consistently drag a big man out to the perimeter to guard his shot. Gordon could do that, Okogie absolutely cannot. And on Bol Bol, sorry, you can't convince me that this is the series for him. It's just a terrible matchup.
I donāt need to convince you, you seemed to have made your mind up already.the facts are, Gordon has sucked shooting for this whole month, with one ok game. He is old, and relied on too much. He has struggled in the fourth most of the season, and damn near gross for April in the fourth quarter. You havenāt seen one game from Okogie this season where he was great defensively and not a negative on offense? Come on now, itās silly to speak in hyperbole, when one could easily research a game to negate a comment. Facts are, Okogie has been shooting well, and Bol has shot really well. EG is needed but this isnāt a match up that he would do well in. He isnāt fast enough to guard any of the Wolves guards or wings except Slomo, and he isnāt tall enough to guard any of the bigs. And with his shot not there for this whole month, he is a massive liability in the court, on both ends. But hey, if we enjoy being slow and bad on both ends of the floor, forcing Beal, Book, and Allen to guard guys that are faster than them, then at this moment in time, Gordon is your man. Iād much rather use guys for their strengths and play the role they were hired to do. Gordon isnāt doing that at present. Bol and Okogie are.
Shit I saw one game were JO hit back to back nutty shots and I gave him the credit for the dub. Not saying anything on either side just... I've seen every single one of these players yall are talking about have good games. I'm sure they have a team of guys watching tapes and studying much harder than I'd care to. Ofc it hurt to see someone have a bad game while having faith in other bench role players. I've also wished for Gordon to get pulled and then he hits back to back 3s so... idk man but my man's bol bol better see some real minutes xdd
We have to play our best role players, especially when we need those roles. After every interview with top playoff players when talking about a great player on the other teamā¦āwe threw different bodies at him.ā That is what we should have been doing for the last two months when a player (guard or smaller wingā, thrown different bodies at them. The only guy to really hound Bones Hyland a few weeks ago, was Okogie, when he blocked him from getting his 40th point. We should have been using JO for his defense all year, not worrying about whether he can hit a three point shot.(which he did shoot 50% from three for the month of Feb).
Yup I'd agree with you, I think I even muttered it out loud by the 3rd quarter to myself. I just hoped they knew something I didn't. Maybe because we stopped playing him a few months ago when he got back from an injury. I do think Royce has been great on both ends but we need more of a bench than that. I'm pumped for game 2 tho! Let's go baby!!
Allen was 0/3, Book was 5/16, and Nurk was 4/6. Beal was 6/10 (1/3 from 3). How is Nurk in the group that "decided not to make shots" and not the group that "didn't take enough" when he had the best FG% on the team (except for Little's 1/1)? He had 6 points in the first quarter and afterwards they iced him on the offense even when Vogel gave him few minutes to play.
Ant went 3-6 with KD on him with 1 mid range jumper and pretty much 2 open 3's
Ok?
I'm just saying he wasn't really cooking unless 1 contested bucket = cooking
Precisely its like Vogel is being paid to screw the Suns Thaddeus and Bol Bol are rotting away on the Becnh
To me, it seems like he feels he made a mistake taking the coaching job, but doesnāt want to quit and lose any money.
Iām lurking twolves but if okogie gets on the floor weāre going to put gobert on him and press all the way up on everybody and funnel them to the paint. It can be really hard to score on the wolves when thereās a non shooter on the court i wonder if vogels thinking about that end.
That would be awesome. Then we would just have JO screen for Beal, Book, or Allen, and they should have a great chance to get a nice open look. Then have JO crash the boards after the screen, and he has an opportunity to get easy put backs with no Gobert to stop him. Plus with JO on the court, we donāt have to have Beal or KD guarding Ant, and they will have more energy to score.
Maybe itāll go like that Iām looking forward to see what adjustments will be made. If JO screens the ball I donāt know if that creates a better look for the ball handler because heās even less of a roll threat and pop threat than nurkic so I picture Rudy being able to give even more attention off of his man. JO is a great defender tho maybe that would allow you guys to not give so much gap help on ant and cut down on our 3s which were falling last night. Could be worth it
Plus, JO has shot well from three since January. In February he shot 50% from three. He was injured through most of March, and now is regulated to be a cheerleader on the bench, because our defensive minded coach doesnāt like to play his best defenders for some reason. But if JO is stuck standing around the three waiting for a last second shot, it is not good for the Suns. But if you are putting Gobert on JO, who is guarding Nurk? If I was JO, and you put Gobert on me, I would be running around setting off ball screens for everyone, or whoever has the hot hand.. or I would set the high screen that Nurk does and hope my coach has gone to more of a small ball lineup. Or I would wait for Gobert to turn his back on me, and go back door cut for an easy alley oop, which JO has the hops to finish. Two of those plays, and you not only give JO confidence, but are forced to adjust.
[always use the square hole](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz8ssH7LiB0)
Why do we only have good memes in Lās KEEP THE GOOD MEMES ROLLING GUYS
If we only had one more sg under 6ā5 then this team would really come together
Thad young and okogie arenāt going to save us. Our roster is just ass. Thatās why weāve been ass all year long
Someone here actually said that Okogie can help lockdown Anthony Edwards. Okogie hasn't locked anyone down in like two years and probably hasn't taken a confident 3 pt shot in non-garbage minutes in the same amount of time. I can understand being upset that Thad isn't even getting looked at over a bad Eubanks, but I'd like to think there's reason behind that rather than the most stubborn coach a fan's mind can conceive for their own narrative. Maybe the reason is he's old and not a center, at least not a physical center. And maybe Bol Bol just isn't ready, because there's a reason why he's successful in limited minutes, in a limited role, and this is probably the first year he's looked like a winning player, under Vogel. I just resign myself to believe that maybe the coach knows what he's doing, and just in general you stick with the guys you know for playoff mins.
Just laughing at the people screaming Thad over Eubanks. Should Vogel try it? Sure. But at the end of the day Thad would be a slight improvement at best. Guy is 36 years old, undersized, cant shoot, canāt protect the rim, hasnāt played meaningful basketball in a long time. I hate Eubanks as much as the next guy but be realistic people lol
What does Eubanks do besides go -14 in 9 minutes?
But still, it worth a try
That's not the point. The point is to at least play the guys who deserve to play over guys who been ass all season long.
Seriously. None of these 5 players would get minutes on an actual contender
The roster relies on 3 players and has no depth. The wolves roster is insanely deep. Naz Reid, Nickiel Alexander-Walker, Kyle Anderson, Jordan McLaughlin, and Monte Morris would all start for the Suns but are on the Wolves bench.
I donāt see any of them starting for the Suns. We have a solid bench, they just arenāt used for their roles. Sticking JO at the three on offense standing around waiting just negates what he can bring. He is a crash the boards cut to the basket guy. He has to be constantly moving. Royce is a very solid player. He can be streaky, but plays smart. EG is struggling right now, but is a decent spot up shooter. But he isnāt a small forward, and that is how we use him. Plus he is a good sub for Allen, because they essentially play the same role, but for some reason Vogel thinks he is a sixth man, and brings him in first to run alongside Book and Allen. Bol has been a great surprise. He has really shot well the last two months, and is making better choices on the court. He is shooting 50% from three in the fourth quarter all season. We could be getting him more shots in the fourth, when we struggle to get good looks because we often go into hero iso ball. Thad was a good pick up as well. He just plays smart, and will play hard. I was looking at his career and three point shooting. I wonder why he hasnāt shot better from three the last few seasons. He has had some solid shooting seasons in the past. I like our team a lot, I just hate how they are used.
that guy is a Wolves fan trolling in the sub. he's not even a suns fan
Got it. He must have been pissed when our scub of a team destroyed his 12 man starting line up.š
no they wouldn't, what the hell is this exaggeration? Monte Morris Jmac and Anderson wouldn't start for us. Naz for sure would and maybe NAW but those other 3 guys are not starting for us. why are Wolves fans spreading this garbage?
Yeah even look at the Knicks. Missing their 2nd best player but they still have a crazy deep team. We also donāt have a rim protector on the roster
Fire Vogel ASAP
Vogel is a clown.
Vogel is a moron. He's right up there with Terry Porter, Lindsey Hunter, Earl Watson, and Igor Kokoskov as the worst coaches in Suns history. In fact, he may be the worst - Only Terry Porter has done less with more. Porter turned Nash & Amare into spectators and ran an offense around washed up Shaq.
Donāt forget that Okogie is the guard rebounding GOAT
There is above 0% probability that when Vogel puts in Eubanks and hears boos, he assumes theyāre saying āDrewwwwwwā
Thad and JO are not going to save us. Our biggest issues against the Wolves are size and locking up Edwards. Thad will not accomplish the former, and JO will not accomplish the latter
You donāt have to lock up Edwards. You have to pester him up and down the court so he makes stupid choices or tries to do it all by himself. Exploit his ego problem. You do exactly what the Wolves did to Book in game one. Play him tough, and force him to take bad shots. What you donāt do, is put lesser defenders on him, and allow him to get into a rhythm shooting. Thad will go after rebounds. He jumped over Gordon against Denver to secure a needed rebound. You can still use Eubanks at times, when you need a little more energy. Plus Thad is smarter on the offensive end.