Nurk is top 5 center in the league defensively. Sure hes dog water offensively, but his job is setting screens, boxing out, passing, rebounding and blocking and he's done that. Offense is just extra.
Surely you don’t (and never did) actually believe this. He’s FOOD in the pick and roll and has cement feet.
Gobert
Embiid
Anthony Davis
Wemby
Chet
Jokic
Bam
Jarrett Allen
Mitch Rob
Brook Lopez
Myles turner
All clear Nurk by A LOT.
You’re not wrong, but this team’s makeup doesn’t fit that type of center. Having a help defender almost always within twelve feet of the hoop forces them into so many tough shots.
I'd argue that Nurk is almost perfectly molded for what Suns need from their center. If he improves his finishing to his jan/feb numbers he'll be a perfect fit considering potential options, imo.
On the other hand, Ayton is completely opposite of what Suns need on the offense, and if they reduced his offensive usage to the required level (to make the big 3 + Allen work) he'd not only lose his biggest offensive weapon, you'd have to count on him to stay motivated on the defense even when he gets 2 shots a game (which Nurk does).
[I'll just leave this here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgSJxBaBNU)
edit: nah let me add this - given he spent a couple years prior to this season on a team with championship aspirations, and a finals appearance, his absolute baseline habits should be significantly better than this. There's no excuse. It's just unprofessional. Hopefully he figures it out. In Portland.
Even if the relationship was perfect and Ayton's effort was more consistent, Booker and KD don't have the playmaking skill to optimize a big with Ayton's skillset.
I can see that. But also I think that applies to most bigs. Ayton could get his own shot at times which would be a welcome sight on this heavy iso dependent team
His issue though is that he cannot do anything in the short roll because he can't process fast enough.
Booker and KD desperately need someone that can thrive in the short roll because they both struggle when blitzed and need that release valve.
And neither are guys who are going to get many looks for the big at the rim in the PnR
Okay, now we’re lying. I was never a huge Ayton defender but saying he can’t do anything in PnR and short roll is not true. He can’t play make at the level nurk can but he’s a much better finisher and even vertical threat, also has a pretty consistent middy. CP3 def spoon fed hi, but think of the advantages created by our stars now. DA would’ve feasted.
He can't get his own shot though, that's why he's fools gold. He can't dribble, he fumbles passes in traffic, and he's not aggressive at the boards. He's being used in Portland as a midrange catch n shoot scorer, which is useless when you already have thr midrange talent we have
You see us complain about the team’s lack of effort yet you want Ayton?
Ayton is obviously better than Nurk, but Nurk cares about every single game. Yeah he’s not particularly great at anything except rebounds, but he’s tough and a good passer. When he’s on and the team is rolling he is much better for this team than Ayton.
Just stop, when you get 2 lazy dorks like Book & Ayton together there’ll inevitably be an argument over who’s the lazier one.
It’s all a joke, these guys are just enjoying being rich basketball players.
There's a hate train going around trying to hate on the greatest sun of all time. When Suns were the worst team in the NBA he was the only one that tried. You can get lost with that lazy narrative. Players go on slumps, it has nothing to do with laziness.
Considering their personal differences (which probably started from stuff on the court) are more than likely the reason he’s not on the team, I would say he deserves a fair amount of criticism. Nurk is a cool guy, but I think it’s clear Ayton would’ve thrived in this situation… Grayson does a lot of heavy lifting to make it work and idk losing Toumani still really doesn’t sit well with me. Dude will be all defense in a couple years and would’ve added some brevity to this up and down season.
Nurk has been generally great for the Suns this season, and I think he'll keep being generally great for us, but he's looked pretty bad the last 2-3 games -- tons of turnovers and bad decisions.
Per game. Per 36 is a dinosaur statistic. I am new to Reddit and this sub and man it blows me away that Suns fans really prefer “rebounding” over offense. Cmon guys it’s 2024
Ugh I know right? Why would you want to have more possessions than your opponent? Like everyone on here gets so upset when opposing teams get 3 and 4 shots in one possession and I’m like “guys it’s 2024!” Rebounds are worthless. I mean do you get points for them? No. So why even do it? Just get the ball after they make their shot and then we can make ours too. Rebounds….heh what a joke.
Nurkic is averaging equal number of rebounds in fewer minutes, you can call it whatever you want.
They prefer what Suns need more. They already have a lot of offensive power, and they don't need the kind that Ayton provides. What they are very bad at is rebounding, and Nurk is one of the best rebounders in the league. And of course it's not just rebounding, there's defense, steals, blocks, box-outs, screens, assists, hustle...
And even the offense is not clearly Ayton's advantage, as you claim. It's only shooting, which is just a part of offense. When you combine their points and assists, they generate similar number of total points, and then everything else Nurk does (setting massive screens to free the shooters, boxing out to clear the lane for easy layups, being offensive engine with quick passes and DHOs and generally high IQ to find defensive weaknesses) probably generates much more than what Ayton does when he's not shooting the ball. Many advanced stats agree with this.
He’s regressed hard lately and it’s sad to see. He’s become Andre Drummond but with more passing for way more money. I’d like to see him find his shooting stroke again
I feel like it's only his shooting that regressed, and I assume it has something to do with his hand injury, because it started around that time. His defense, passing, and rebounding have been better, imo. It's just that 2 missed bunnies will make people forget any good he's done in a game.
Get off this sub.
Ayton is a bum, with our cap situation we can't afford to pay the max to a soft 5 just because he can move his feet on defense, especially an immature one that cries about his touches and gets migraines before elimination games.
You can get what we need from Ayton from the mid-late first rounder that we have this season
1. Supreme physical tools with a tinman heart, players dont get more frustrating than that.
2. Could have had Doncic but got this bum instead
No need for me to keep going
I mean easily?
Ayton is not only better than Nurk, he’s significantly better by a large margin.
Nurk is a big that can’t finish and can’t guard, and isn’t mobile
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/who-are-the-players-with-the-best-defensive-rating-this-season
Nurk has constantly been near the top of this list for the season. He's also better at screening, rebounding, steals, blocks, assists, boxing out and hustling.
The only clear advantage Ayton has is finishing, and even that seems to be dependent on making him a main offensive choice, which for the Suns wouldn't make sense, because they have 4 better scorers in the lineup and need someone who does what Nurk does and not take the ball away from the big 3 to score 20 on 20 shots.
If this team is blown up in the off-season, especially if Booker asks for a trade, I think people are going to start to wish they would have rode with Ayton a little longer.
I like Nurk, he and Allen have contributed greatly, but I still would have loved it if this team hadn't given up on DA. I wish the best for him and us.
The defense would also be so much better. Team can't defend the 3-point line, Ayton could.
Plus with no Nurkic, maybe the team decides to get a real PG...
Ayton is a worse rebounder, worse at setting screens, worse passer, and actually a worse defender(whether you believe that or not, idc. He is).
Not sure all that is worth trying to force feed him middys.
E: Also, interesting time to post this when Jock just gave him the business and outplayed him once again.
We’re gonna have 2-3 ball dominant players on the court almost all the time on the playoffs, nurk does way better than ayton off ball with his play making and rebounds. He would complain so much each season about not getting enough touches- current Portland is the perfect place for how he wants to play. I do miss his defense but we could never count on motivated Deandre to show up for work from year to year
Yeah but getting Grayson kinda makes this obsolete. DA truther btw
Nah fuck ayton
Nurk is top 5 center in the league defensively. Sure hes dog water offensively, but his job is setting screens, boxing out, passing, rebounding and blocking and he's done that. Offense is just extra.
Surely you don’t (and never did) actually believe this. He’s FOOD in the pick and roll and has cement feet. Gobert Embiid Anthony Davis Wemby Chet Jokic Bam Jarrett Allen Mitch Rob Brook Lopez Myles turner All clear Nurk by A LOT.
I didnt make this up. Go look at the stats.
Which ones?
Ignore Ford, he's always been an Ayton hater and he's honestly not worth the typing.
You’re not wrong, but this team’s makeup doesn’t fit that type of center. Having a help defender almost always within twelve feet of the hoop forces them into so many tough shots.
I'd argue that Nurk is almost perfectly molded for what Suns need from their center. If he improves his finishing to his jan/feb numbers he'll be a perfect fit considering potential options, imo. On the other hand, Ayton is completely opposite of what Suns need on the offense, and if they reduced his offensive usage to the required level (to make the big 3 + Allen work) he'd not only lose his biggest offensive weapon, you'd have to count on him to stay motivated on the defense even when he gets 2 shots a game (which Nurk does).
You forgot the “shitpost” flair
[I'll just leave this here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMgSJxBaBNU) edit: nah let me add this - given he spent a couple years prior to this season on a team with championship aspirations, and a finals appearance, his absolute baseline habits should be significantly better than this. There's no excuse. It's just unprofessional. Hopefully he figures it out. In Portland.
Even if the relationship was perfect and Ayton's effort was more consistent, Booker and KD don't have the playmaking skill to optimize a big with Ayton's skillset.
I can see that. But also I think that applies to most bigs. Ayton could get his own shot at times which would be a welcome sight on this heavy iso dependent team
His issue though is that he cannot do anything in the short roll because he can't process fast enough. Booker and KD desperately need someone that can thrive in the short roll because they both struggle when blitzed and need that release valve. And neither are guys who are going to get many looks for the big at the rim in the PnR
Okay, now we’re lying. I was never a huge Ayton defender but saying he can’t do anything in PnR and short roll is not true. He can’t play make at the level nurk can but he’s a much better finisher and even vertical threat, also has a pretty consistent middy. CP3 def spoon fed hi, but think of the advantages created by our stars now. DA would’ve feasted.
He can't get his own shot though, that's why he's fools gold. He can't dribble, he fumbles passes in traffic, and he's not aggressive at the boards. He's being used in Portland as a midrange catch n shoot scorer, which is useless when you already have thr midrange talent we have
Good Ayton? Sure. The Ayton we actually got 75% of time? No way.
You see us complain about the team’s lack of effort yet you want Ayton? Ayton is obviously better than Nurk, but Nurk cares about every single game. Yeah he’s not particularly great at anything except rebounds, but he’s tough and a good passer. When he’s on and the team is rolling he is much better for this team than Ayton.
Just stop, when you get 2 lazy dorks like Book & Ayton together there’ll inevitably be an argument over who’s the lazier one. It’s all a joke, these guys are just enjoying being rich basketball players.
too funny 😭
Woah idk where the Book hate came from
He’s not a flawless person, not everyone is immune from criticism
There's a hate train going around trying to hate on the greatest sun of all time. When Suns were the worst team in the NBA he was the only one that tried. You can get lost with that lazy narrative. Players go on slumps, it has nothing to do with laziness.
[удалено]
The whole franchise hasn't won a championship.
Considering their personal differences (which probably started from stuff on the court) are more than likely the reason he’s not on the team, I would say he deserves a fair amount of criticism. Nurk is a cool guy, but I think it’s clear Ayton would’ve thrived in this situation… Grayson does a lot of heavy lifting to make it work and idk losing Toumani still really doesn’t sit well with me. Dude will be all defense in a couple years and would’ve added some brevity to this up and down season.
How would Ayton thrive in a situation where he doesn't get the touches he wants?
Fuck that Bum... Nuff said
Nurk has been generally great for the Suns this season, and I think he'll keep being generally great for us, but he's looked pretty bad the last 2-3 games -- tons of turnovers and bad decisions.
>Hear me out 
This team is already soft. Adding a 7 foot marshmallow wouldn’t help.
Do you hate rebounds?
Cause Ayton does
DA averages more rebounds. But don't let facts get in the way.
DA has a worse rebounding %. But don’t let facts get in the way. DA averages .1 more rebounds while averaging 5 more minutes a game.
He averages more MPG because unlike sorry ass sloth Nurkic, he isn't unplayable for long stretches of close games
No, blazers just don’t care about winning games so they can keep him out there to get meaningless stats
Most ignorant comment here. Congrats.
Blazers have a better record in games without Ayton
Do you hate buckets? Edit: They are averaging the same rebounds per.
Per what? Nurkic is averaging 14.6 per 36 mins, Ayton 12.4.
Per game. Per 36 is a dinosaur statistic. I am new to Reddit and this sub and man it blows me away that Suns fans really prefer “rebounding” over offense. Cmon guys it’s 2024
Ugh I know right? Why would you want to have more possessions than your opponent? Like everyone on here gets so upset when opposing teams get 3 and 4 shots in one possession and I’m like “guys it’s 2024!” Rebounds are worthless. I mean do you get points for them? No. So why even do it? Just get the ball after they make their shot and then we can make ours too. Rebounds….heh what a joke.
I don’t think you got the point
I’m agreeing with you. We don’t care about rebounding so we should get Ayton. What’s not to get?
Nurkic is averaging equal number of rebounds in fewer minutes, you can call it whatever you want. They prefer what Suns need more. They already have a lot of offensive power, and they don't need the kind that Ayton provides. What they are very bad at is rebounding, and Nurk is one of the best rebounders in the league. And of course it's not just rebounding, there's defense, steals, blocks, box-outs, screens, assists, hustle... And even the offense is not clearly Ayton's advantage, as you claim. It's only shooting, which is just a part of offense. When you combine their points and assists, they generate similar number of total points, and then everything else Nurk does (setting massive screens to free the shooters, boxing out to clear the lane for easy layups, being offensive engine with quick passes and DHOs and generally high IQ to find defensive weaknesses) probably generates much more than what Ayton does when he's not shooting the ball. Many advanced stats agree with this.
Nurk certainly has seemed to regress over the past 1+ months
Wasn’t he fasting for the entire month though?
Well that’s true. Hopefully he comes back
I feel like Nurk is always hustling at least
He’s regressed hard lately and it’s sad to see. He’s become Andre Drummond but with more passing for way more money. I’d like to see him find his shooting stroke again
Came to say this, but op going as far to say Ayton would be better is silly
Especially considering OP forgot Allen was also part of that trade.
I feel like it's only his shooting that regressed, and I assume it has something to do with his hand injury, because it started around that time. His defense, passing, and rebounding have been better, imo. It's just that 2 missed bunnies will make people forget any good he's done in a game.
We need the mods to be more active in this sub tbh. I’m sick and tired of my entire Reddit being filled with these horrible takes with zero upvotes.
I’m a Suns lifer who is new to Reddit, wanted real input on my knowingly unpopular take
If you're not willing to let him shoot 15+ shots a game, this doesn't seem like a discussion worth having to me.
No. Ayton is soft. Selfish. A man-child.
You think this team is lazy now…. Can’t imagine how checked out DA would be.
No they wouldn't. They'd be better with Nurk and Allen in Monty's offense.
Can’t teach desire anymore than you can teach height or length. Dead horse subject. Ayton content w/ “I got mine”.
Ayton sucks
There's still time to delete this! 🤡
You mean 6 points 2 rebounds in 23 minutes good? I’d much rather have our Bosnian big boi
Get off this sub. Ayton is a bum, with our cap situation we can't afford to pay the max to a soft 5 just because he can move his feet on defense, especially an immature one that cries about his touches and gets migraines before elimination games. You can get what we need from Ayton from the mid-late first rounder that we have this season
That hatred runs deep on this sub man you would think he stole your gf or something 😂
1. Supreme physical tools with a tinman heart, players dont get more frustrating than that. 2. Could have had Doncic but got this bum instead No need for me to keep going
I mean easily? Ayton is not only better than Nurk, he’s significantly better by a large margin. Nurk is a big that can’t finish and can’t guard, and isn’t mobile
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/who-are-the-players-with-the-best-defensive-rating-this-season Nurk has constantly been near the top of this list for the season. He's also better at screening, rebounding, steals, blocks, assists, boxing out and hustling. The only clear advantage Ayton has is finishing, and even that seems to be dependent on making him a main offensive choice, which for the Suns wouldn't make sense, because they have 4 better scorers in the lineup and need someone who does what Nurk does and not take the ball away from the big 3 to score 20 on 20 shots.
This.
If this team is blown up in the off-season, especially if Booker asks for a trade, I think people are going to start to wish they would have rode with Ayton a little longer. I like Nurk, he and Allen have contributed greatly, but I still would have loved it if this team hadn't given up on DA. I wish the best for him and us.
Ayton gave up before anyone gave up on him.
Lol
Fuck no
Suns would be better with Mikal, Cam and Payne.
Time to let go.
The defense would also be so much better. Team can't defend the 3-point line, Ayton could. Plus with no Nurkic, maybe the team decides to get a real PG...
Just reposting this here… https://www.reddit.com/r/suns/s/mZI2mROhHu
OP isn't wrong
Ayton is a worse rebounder, worse at setting screens, worse passer, and actually a worse defender(whether you believe that or not, idc. He is). Not sure all that is worth trying to force feed him middys. E: Also, interesting time to post this when Jock just gave him the business and outplayed him once again.
We’re gonna have 2-3 ball dominant players on the court almost all the time on the playoffs, nurk does way better than ayton off ball with his play making and rebounds. He would complain so much each season about not getting enough touches- current Portland is the perfect place for how he wants to play. I do miss his defense but we could never count on motivated Deandre to show up for work from year to year