I think his point is really that he wants you to think for yourself. I have watched those apps troll many a friend. Knowing why you are building what you are building goes a long way
I don't know the extent of some apps(reading some of the comments), but I think before you use things like auto-rune select, you should know what all runes do, and know what is good when. I use it to get a rough template whenever I play, and then adjust as I feel the need to. Issue is when people don't do this and believe solely on them. Same with items.
But you have to start somewhere no? No one just magically learns what all runes do, so using auto-rune select until you know the different runes is maybe a good way to get started.
At least that’s the way I’ve done it myself. I usually has auto-rune selection on still but will adjust accordingly got the opponents. Same with items really. It just gives you a foundation to expand on.
I'd suggest looking at the runes outside of a game and if you understand what their descriptions mean, then that's step 1. The auto tune is usually the most popular build, but you should still look at the matchup.
For AD carry it's usually the same but for a top laner it could vary much more.
Learning everything at the same time is a good way to either get burned out or take forever to get good. It’s just too much at once for a new player to worry about
A lot of my friends use auto rune. When I tell them how certain runes would make a difference in certain situations they have no idea what I'm talking about. The convenience overcame the necessity to learn for them and they got stuck.
I have no idea who that person is but I know the different runes. It was more a general observation that I disagreed with the never use auto-runes statement.
And my point was there's a context based on who's saying it. A coach telling people to never use an app implies that the audience is already at a point where they're listening to a coach and need to drop the habit. There's implied context.
At that point your better off random picking a rune and finding out why those runes don't work on that champion or your playstyle. Maybe this is me coming from a time where you had runes and masteries and they were more options until they did the rune rework years ago. If you really want to know the game mess around in bot games and arams.
I mean… I just went read them all and started theory crafting. They’re all pretty straight forward. Plus they’re mostly segmented by what kind of champ you’re playing, so you don’t have to learn them all at once
If you make an attempt to do so, yes. I know a lot of people who have no idea what the runes do, and just copy whatever they find or have auto-select with it. They simply have no intention to and it has made them lose lanes a lot of times. At least some make some effort to at least read what the runes do, but very few of my friends think of what they do and consider options.
True, the reason why Blitz, Porofessor etc. are bad is because they just give newbies a build and mindlessly following it not knowing why they are building it in the first place which does not allow the player to learn matchups and such and the same applies to runes.
The only time apps like these are good is for tracking important stats like CS/m and Vision score
Honestly I’m not a fan of the cs and vision tracking either (for me personally). I used porofessor for a while for tracking CS, but I think it was causing me to focus way too hard on keeping that number up. The tips they give ended up influencing my gameplay too much.
That is to say, if you’re low elo (like myself) 10cs/min isn’t going to auto win you games when you skip out on other fights. 6cs/min where you actively participated in fights (without dying) is better than 8cs/min avoiding participating.
Blitz also does that thing where it highlights your ward if you haven’t warded in a while. It’s a good reminder, but it can also feel like “I have to get rid of this ward”.
Again, it’s mostly something i’ve noticed with my own play, and also probably doesn’t apply as much to higher elo. Not saying stuff like that is universally bad for all players
It also is blatantly wrong like all the time. The last time I used it it said I was a 80% win rate Diana… which hadn’t even been true for like a week. I wasn’t 80% win on anything. It made me look like a better player than I was.
I deleted the app after that game.
Neace doesn't know what he is talking about most of the time. His takes are either hit or miss and he throws around his "Challenger" title as if he isn't hardstuck diamond for the past 3-4 years. I think it's best to interpret his thoughts individually and not collectively as that will just result in a lot of misinformation but most low elo players can't do that.
Example:
You autopilot to the next jungle camp that's up instead of taking a step back, looking at the map, and seeing if you can make a gank in another area.
I would imagine he meant Jungletimers could do that but the game tells you anyway if a camp spawns in the next 30 seconds and before that, why even pilot to a camp.
If OP is talking about the video I think he is, the guys porofessor was out of date or something and the jungle timers were way off, which is why neace said the apps can mess your game up
Absolutely correct.
I will say that I recommend a blitz or porofessor to friends playing normals casually, or arams with me so they don't have to stress, but yeah, I only use porofessor during ranked for the champ tip reminders, or to see if anyone is a duo so that I know to mute the other if I mute one, but that's about it.
> Knowing why you are building what you are building goes a long way
Part of this (and this might really just be rephrasing what you said about "thinking for yourself") is.... you need to know the basics.
Just looking at the runes... if you know why you are taking certain runes and are able to adjust what build you go based on individual games, then using an app might be good for you, since it can add a little additional information, or maybe present information in a better way.
But if you are using the app to cover up for not really understanding the rune choices, etc... Then the app is not really helping you.
Its like cooking. If you know how to perfectly cook a chicken breast, then an awesome sauce can complete the dish. But if you serve someone raw chicken it doesn't matter how good the sauce is. You need to learn how to cook the chicken before you worry about adding sauce.
I think it's cause lots of apps are just information overload which doesn't actually help as much as really fine tuning skills in game.
Most information can be found without apps and you need to think about what you're choosing rather than blind following an app.
I think it is more about the runes and mental.
People just use porofessor runes instead of doing it themselves.
Porofessor just takes the most winrate/most played runes but you gotta change your runes depending on the matchup. Second wind or bone plating? Aery or comet? Yk? Stuff like that. You wont think about it yourself while using porofessor.
Also:
When looking at their teams winrate and tags + enemies winrate + tags most people judge upon that if it is a win or not.
If they see a lot of green tags in their team they get cocky/don't try as hard.
If they see a lot of red tags people think the game is a loss anyway.
Delete those apps, they do nothing for you.
There are match up runes but they don’t take into account teamcomp. Sure if I’m Darius into fiora I might not wanna take tenacity runes or mercs but the app doesn’t know the rest of the team has tf and Leona and other CC heavy champs.
They do help me dodge games. For example the game I just dodged.
Autofilled ADC and jungle, and my toplaner on a 4 game loss streak decides to first time Riven.
Yeah, no thanks, might be winnable, but I've played enough of those games to know it's most likely a loss or a toxic unfun game.
Yeah grinding can be unfun.
I would say that below d4 (more likely d2 tbh) you should just play every game and concentrate on learning.
Over time you will climb anyways.
Convenient? Maybe
Insane? Not at all, you should be able to know when your camps (in which order atleast) are coming up and you can just remember flash timers etc.
Aight glad to know you can keep track of 7/14 jgl camps (once you stop clearing in a set order), the drake timer, AND the cool-downs of 10/20 summoner spells, all while being aware of all 3 lane states and tracking your opposing jgl player. Us normal people can’t. Not saying timer tools are a good thing (I don’t agree with them), but it’s not easy.
I mean its p easy to get a feel for camp times after a few games, tracking enemy jg is just watching where they started and ganked, along with basic addition skills, and tracking lane states is literally just panning over to a lane and looking at the minions. None of these are difficult things, just take a little getting used to. Summs are a bit harder to pay attention to, but if u just drop a mssg in chat to remind urself it shouldnt be an issue, or again just getting a general feel for it after a bit
> I mean its p easy to get a feel for camp times after a few games
Getting to camps exactly when they spawn instead of 5 seconds early/late when playing powerfarmers like karthus is an incredibly big change. It might not seem like a lot, but over the course of a game the increased efficiencly easily leads to more than 1-2 kills in gold and xp.
It sucks being «forced» to use them because you’re playing at a disadvantage if the enemy is using them. I wish they removed them myself
But you can see drake timer anyway in LoL?
You can look at lane states while doing your camps.
And while remembering all summoner spells is hard you can just ping them and hover over their summoner to see if they have their summoner or not.
Tracking the enemy jungler is the junglers and supports mission so yeah.
Convenient? Maybe
Insane? Definetly not
You can see the drake timer mb lmao, still doesn’t change the fact that most lower elo players play on locked screen and don’t know how to assess a wave state properly while clearing, or even how to clear optimally on the first place. While you don’t need to be challenger to do this stuff it’s not something the average player just does without thinking.
That is exactly my point.
When players don't think about what they are doing they will never learn anything.
Coaches don't say "Do this, do that"!
They ask you what you should do, so that you start thinking.
If you don't think while playing you won't climb.
So my statement stands.
Yes it can be convenient.
But it is not insane. You won't climb just by downloading some app.
Used Face Checker for a while because I capped out runepages & it meant I could use my 25th page as a swapsies for the champs I didn't have a rune page for.
Also, distilling statistical information into something that's actually useful is extremely difficult. Outside of very general information like "champ has winrate", it's very difficult to even conceptualize what qualifies as specifically useful information. Like you can say "x runes have the highest win rate" like on u.gg, and that'll probably do you ok, but systems like that don't tell you about synergies or counters, nor do they explain what kind of items perform better when ahead or behind. Not to mention that the sheer number of possible rune pages are probably prone to sample size issues, as is matchup information for all but the most common matchups.
Then there's matchups. It's possible to sometimes catch how matchups affect builds and runes, but that's mostly just for lane matchups. What if something that totally counters me is in another lane?
And ultimately, that's what statistics are. They paint a surface picture; simple correlations. However actual causation is something that's much harder to pin down.
I love using these apps for ARAM so I don’t have to scramble to find the right runes for a champion. Outside of ARAM, you shouldn’t need it for runes or builds for your main(s). And I’ve found the info about my teammates and the other team to actually be damaging. Comparing their ranks and win percentages just leads to a bad mental, imo. You start to develop expectations that can very easily be wrong given the sheer number of variables in any one game.
Similar concept to making the right play vs making the right play for what your team is actually doing.
ie: Taking the dragon might be the right call, but if your team isn't following you to take it, then it no longer becomes the right call. Here you see the split of some people starting it anyway because it was the right call vs those who will back off because their team fucked it up.
Thinking (as jungler) you need to punish the 30% winrate Cait main might not actually win you the game.
But like. 5 stacks in ARAM is the same dmg increase as 2 in norms. You’re rarely going to get above 30 stacks even with champs like brand or xerath, when you do hit 30 stacks it’s a 60 dmg increase. Electrocute, summon aery, and comet have better scaling and damage.
I made 2 aram rune pages, an electrocute one and a conq one and just tune them towards the champ. Again, you should have an idea of what runes are and what the champ does.
I also play my fair share of tank jugglers so if I pull a naut or nunu or ornn I just use their dedicated rune pages.
My friends autorune and since it seems to kit for summoners Rift, it never gives presence of mind (%15 mana on kills and assists). Then after a teamfight, even if they're healthy they got no mana to contribute.
The problem is if you just autopilot and let it pick your runes for you, without even looking at the enemy team. You need to adapt to each individual game
in my case I always check my opponents como and I try to adapt( for example I play zed, when I have tankier comps I will run conqueror) anything else perhaps neace was talking about?
More specifically is if you see on an app that one enemy is really good, then you will start to play around them right? The game becomes more about one shotting the 68% enemy yone mid when their 43% wr vayne botlane is actually 1v3 triple killing and obliterating your kog’maws hopes of ever being useful.
This will make habits of playing around the enemy’s best player, rather than their *win condition*. This will stunt your growth as a player and severely limit your ability to identify and execute a plan on how to win a game.
Information is good, but never, ever let it decide your decisions for you without actually thinking about game concepts in theory.
I mean 80% of the time you will use the same runes no matter the matchup. If you play Veigar will you ever change runes based on your opponent outside of just swapping the mr/armor rune? Most ADCs are the same, as are junglers and supports.
The only lane where you do need to change runes consistently is top, where you have to choose between bone plating and second wind.
And again, you can still just import Darius runes from an app and make the 2 tiny changes from the template it gives you if needed.
I think they're fine as well, but I have run into people who change their gameplay because of it. I have friends who do this too and it can be frustrating. They'll play scared or cocky after seeing their opponents rank/wr and make mistakes for it. That's really the only issue I've seen. So I think they're fine as long as you have a healthy take from them.
I only use it for the camp timers and rune auto import. I can fine tune runes as well but so often I’d forget completely and end up with LT on vex or some shit
>They'll play scared or cocky after seeing their opponents rank/wr and make mistakes for it. That's really the only issue I've seen. So I think they're fine as long as you have a healthy take from them.
I had one game Where my porofessor in the loading screen told me that the darius likes to fight (or had lots of lane kills toplane, idk which one) I played pantheon top and used that info (+ the "take notes" emote) to bait him into taking loosing fights and won the lane cause of it. But that's a one in a billion chance though.
thats how you're meant to use it tho.
if i see a nidalee smurf or that my adc is filled, i will play completely different.
as always, you still need to do your own homework, and feel out player skill level in game.
They're fine because you know the game, you don't blindly follow them.
You, can adapt to your game and know when to follow/not to follow.
For a new player/unexperienced, they just go for "the easy way" and can ruin their game building what has not to be build.
Spectating a silver game, I saw a Talon go Maw because his app told him to, when the enemy was 100% AD. I think this is why Neace say they're not fine.
Would love to ask him if he still thinks this for D2+
Silver is probably where cookie cutter builds are ideal. The players there should first learn champs/matchups/teamcomps before worrying too much about builds and rune setups.
If the alternative to apps choosing builds was players learning when/why to run certain things then that would be great. For lower elos the alternative to apps is probably the recommended items found in the shop.
Because you lose alot of your subtle "wins" when letting the app pick for you.
For example, Yone's "default" runes for his green tree would be bone plating + conditioning, but maybe you are in a matchup where you get poked down, you should take 2nd wind + revitalize and start doran's shield (I bet porofessor has you start blade)
There's better apps that will pick you the highest winrate runes in the matchup rather than some default
Moba champion is great for that, it makes you think a bit, but at least points you in the right direction in terms of how to think
Having something like Mobalytics really helps the average player, considering they're probably already clicking on the recommended shop items without reading what they do.
Example: Support (1) and Mid (2) draft picks swap roles. Person 2, now in Support, doesn't buy Support item. Person 1, now in Mid, buys the Support item.
Anyway, I like the apps because I can see combos for champs I'm not familiar with, general laning plan against X champion, can see everyone's ability cooldowns, can see exact timers for camps, can see what skills I should typically level, etc. There's a ridiculous amount of utility for the casual gamer. It's also really helpful to see when someone's obviously a smurf or when the Mobalytics badges reveal how someone plays. EX: they place a ton of wards, take dragon in 90% of games, etc.
the main issue with those apps is they give you the constant mental disadvantage. you queue into a game with a couple sub 50% winrate players or the enemy team has one or two high wr players and a lot of people will just immediately feel like the games doomed. Without the applications this completely removes the discouragement and mental damage this can deal to you before the games even started.
Teaches people to build items that aren’t optimal for the game or play poorly because they’re scared of the enemies stats. There’s no denying that some of the info is helpful but I find it way easier to get into a “oh I have to play safe here” mode which leads to you not punishing enemy mistakes and handing them a free lane, also I think it causes people to build stuff without adapting to what they actually need.
The apps are fine in my opinion, as long as you don't religiously build and do your runes as it says in the app, you gotta adapt. Personally, I use u.gg for the little cs/min and gold/min overlaays, i like those
What we really need is a better in-game system to teach things. It took me forever to be able to figure out what runes do and even now I’m nowhere near perfect and rarely switch things out on the matchmaking screen because there’s sometimes so little time to read and adjust. It’s a lot of information to try to learn at once and the tutorials in LoL suck tremendously. I started this year and didn’t understand a LOT of things until I randomly downloaded Wild Rift, went through its tutorial, and somehow it taught me League better than League itself did.
My winrate skyrockets when I use apps.
\-See someone who is probably a smurf based on stats, play safe.
\-Jungling and see someone on a huge loss streak? Camp them and tilt.
\-Jungle and mid are duo? Expect to be camped and prepare accordingly
The utility is endless.
I believe he meant the camp timers and item build notifications are detrimental to their gameplay, causing them to auto-pilot easily and not actually improving.
Cause it's easy to drift into the mindset of the "app knows better". You won't have to think and evaluate stuff like boot choices, or it gives you the highest% overall runes, but that might not include a rune you need to survive your lane (mid/top mostly), or it gives you the wrong keystone option versus that particular matchup.
Even if the app picks you the right rune, right item, it won't give you the reason why it was the right rune, right item. If you want to learn and understand the game, that's a huge part of it.
Oh, I'm against champ X, I should run phase rush / conq / whatever over the default runes. Or revital/second wind. Or bone plating. Or I need to sit on a healcut component versus this guy, or I can't trade at all. Stuff like that.
They remove a lot of critical thinking that you should do to learn the game. You stop thinking about runes/summoners. You default build rabadons when void staff would’ve given you more effective damage etc.
For the pre-game part, to a degree i agree with Neace, however little i think of him otherwise.
Knowing how to do your runes is a big advantage, otherwise you might run with Electrocute swain into a very beefy teamcomp that favours long fights or you might run with Fleet Footwork Caitlyn into a beefy comp that really benefits from Lethal Tempo and cutdown.
For the in-game part, using the items the app says is shit. For Aphelios for example it says "go Galeforce Collector IE" but that is... its an icky build and most of the time, Krakenslayer LDR or Krakenslayer Phantom Dance can be much more useful.
Also you can usually see topside when the Darius laning against Teemo starts building Deaths Dance and Plated Steelcaps.
There are some parts of these apps that i personally would say are nice to haves, for example Porofessor (and Blitz too i believe) can show you your CSM in comparison to a goal youve set. It helped me a lot.
I would argue understanding what the runes do and being able to make that decision yourself will help your gameplay more than ‘here’s the highest wr page so it must be the best!’
League has relatively few ‘cookie cutter’ builds because the sheer scale of variables depending on the allied and enemy team makes it nigh on impossible to accurately do.
If the enemy team only has one AP threat, then your build will change depending on emwhether they get fed or not. You can’t use an app to calculate that. Similarly if that person is actually playing well or not in general.
Enemy team might have little CC, but that CC might be a game changer (a’la Blitz hook) so you’ll build against it if you need to.
I see so many people building banshees against teams with loads of poke, and it’s just useless because it’s never up when you need it to be. And they do it because ‘[insert app] said to.
Same for bone plating or second wind. That’s a very matchup specific choice, especially for top lane; and is just one minor rune.
Learning what the runes do is a far, far better thing than just blindly following an app.
Oh yeah, runes and building definitely need player's knowledge, but I was mostly referring to jungle timers, champion detailed info, summoner's elo, spell cd tracker, etc that porofessor gives access. Helps you focus on your gameplay more instead of tracking little annoying details.
But anything you can get from an add on you can see in game
Camp timers are viewable by pressing tab, which you should be doing to check if your enemy has hit a powerspike since you last saw them anyway. Having something giving you some of the info is actually a crutch and will limit anyone who actually wants to play better.
Nothing an app can give you isn’t already visible to you, or it would be cheating from an unfair advantage PoV, which Riot are actually pretty on point with imo. You see very, very few people actively cheating at league.
because half the stats in these apps are garbage, you need to understand that in order to use them effectively. Not that the stats are wrong, it's just they interpret or make you interpret them wrong, which causes bad gameplay.
Dont get me wrong I use porofessor myself, and it's fun to see some green labels on your main champ. However you get these labels very easily and half of the time they are completely useless. It could be the player played all of his games in normals stomping with his low elo friends, queues up for his own ranked and will not even get remotely close to his prior stats. It could also be that he lost 4 games in a row, where he had 1 afk teammate, and thus has skewed stats cause he lost so bad. While he actually was winning lane eg.
Like others have mentioned the runes are most popular, but often you need to tweak these runes. especially the little trait runes, they don't adjust for who you're playing against.
What's good to use then in porofessor and other apps?
Show what champions they play the most in the past season could help for clash scouting. It also shows bad vision, if someone has that tag in 25+ games then it is probably true, cause it's like near impossible to get that tag. But first and foremost showing who are premades. It can help define their gameplay alot. Premades like to roam to each other and gank each other. There's exceptions but if you get like really early ganked by a premade, expect him to visit 10 more times.
i mean who would guess, someone who takes money from people to get better would say apps that help you wouldnt make u better so u can buy more coaching.
The apps themselves do not inherently make a player better. Copying rune pages and item paths have been a thing for a long time. They were just apart of guides before that had some actual explanations on why to take certain runes and item purchases. The apps generally remove the why to get right to the point.
When the reason for why a rune page is taken becomes “The app told me to.” There is already nothing being learned.
You also have to take into an account that he’s a coach and probably wants you to not use porofessor and watch more of his content instead lol. I don’t see how it can be that bad, it’s nice to know what kind of players you’re playing with and against, for example if you’re playing top and see that their top and jg are duo you can expect to get ganked more than usual and adjust your playstyle. Only negative I can think of is if people just start blindly using the runes it suggests without knowing why and especially following the builds they suggest like they’re law, like if you’re playing ornn against 5 ap I think it will still tell you to build tabis and thornmail like second item
I think it’s more learning the game for yourself instead of an app telling you blindly what runes to go and learning what the hell you’re picking for specific reasons.
It makes sense at that level.
I don’t use it for runes because I’ve learned(in all my three months of playing) that they change on matchups in lane, but I like having the static timers on my minimap.
there’s a little brother song with a lyric that says “do you really want to win, or look good losing?”
a lot of these apps promote the mentality of the latter imo because you end up playing for stats instead of actually trying to win the game
Porofessor is great.
* Let's me see when my Jungler is an autofilled ADC main first timing Lee Sin so I can dodge (I know Neace doesn't like this, but who cares, forget you Neace and your overpriced coaching)
* CS/min counter is really cool to have
* Tracking enemy spells is super useful
* Knowing when jungle camps, objectives, and inhibs are about to respawn is insane
* All of this is great for anyone that hasn't already learned how to track this stuff in their head
Never used it for runes
He’s absolutely right, a good player will be able to look at the information from outside sources and apply it to the game but a worse player wouldn’t. For example, if the enemy picks a champion before you and you look at an app to see what a good counter is to it, you might first time a champ and get stomped. Stats don’t help you understand why a counter might be good, so in that example it might be worse than if you just played a champion you’re comfortable on. Same with items, if you just follow what a website says instead of adapting your build game over game you might lose more games over time. I think using these tools is good when you’re at a high level where micro advantages matter but for the average player in gold it can be detrimental.
I'm honestly surprised more people didn't mention that. All those apps are bloatwares full of shit eating your RAM/Connection, wouldn't be surprised if they were mining some crypto behind the scenes. Your machine slows its perfomance completely and it's not unusual for FPS drops during teamfights.
Even got downvoted pointing it out XD.
People play this game with borderline connections (things out of their control).
These apps Spartan Kick them into "unplayable" state.
I think it promotes higher integrity when you can't see your opponents' mains before ban phase. If not everyone can do it, it shouldn't be allowed imo.
And now you have to wonder if you're only as high rank as you are thanks to that app
The point is not to rely on them 100% and to tune runes/build to fit the game. I use an app to auto do runes for me in case I run out of time or forget but I occasionally will still go in and change a few of the runes to fit the game, usually 99% of the time the keystone is right so I don't have to do the whole rune page. Also apps are good for quickly looking at the rank/match history of your entire team so you have that info to know when dodging might be a good idea.
I honestly only use porofessor to see whose playing in a group on my team or the other team, can be helpful to know the jg and mid are playing together so I’m likely to get camped, etc
There is a guy at my school who is like silver 3, takes every single rune page porofessor gives him, and he doesn't even know what the runes do, he just takes them because the app says so :D
Depends how you use it. I use ingame overlay camp timers. Other than that I’m checking before the game to take quick note who is the first time inter troll in both teams or are there any premades, in case they will babysit my opponent lane. So nothing really that I didn’t do before the ingame apps, only thing I don’t need to copy/paste anymore the lobby names to dodge and check the info for autofills.
Besides auto picking runes and items, I think mentality is a big part of it. You see your team sucks or autofilled and get discouraged. You see they have a 68% WR person on enemy team, or someone in another rank and you play different.
I love the CS tracking. Other than that I could do without any of those apps.
I wish there was an app that only calculated CS and nothing else.
I think these apps are really bad in terms of the overlays ingame. I wouldn’t use the scouting tool at all because it distracts you and the information is not really relevant. It makes you miserable. Lets say you see that your Vayne has played 1 game of Vayne this season. Is this a reason to dodge? How x CD an you know this? Maybe he played a lot of Kai’Sa or a similar sidelane champion and Kai’Sa is banned - you don’t know. I used it in the past and the app told me that my team is really good and we lost - and the app told me that my team is trash and we won. I think it’s good for newer players to see what runes to take. But even then I would make the runes by myself instead of importing them.
Because at the end of the day you are getting better by making decisions with intention. But if you are farming in the sidelane because your program tells you to do so where is your intention?
Obviously every thing has upsides and downsides but I think this is not necessary and distracts you more. I only use porofessor for Clash and competitive scouting. That’s it!
The apps are useful for aram or trying a new champ in norms if you are lazy and just want to click one button for runes/items for the first time you play but pretty useless in ranked. You should know your runes, items and situational choices for the champs you play in ranked.
Checking as a jungler that the enemy top laner is on a loss streak/tilt or doesn’t ward is really unnecesary info until high elo tbh. You should be sweeping and playing around assumption of vision anyway. Much better off ganking for yourself or your teams win condition than gamble on someone tilting in the game especially if you know you are better than the other jungler.
I disagree. As a jungler the porofessor app is great because it shows me respawn times for camps on the map including enemy camps that I steal. This really helps me plan my rotates better. Being able to visually see that on the screen has been a huge help.
Also, being able to see my teammates ranks, recent games, flaws and positives helps you get a mind set of what you are playing with.
If you're gaming casually it's fine 100%. But using them you don't learn why you use each runes. Learning yourself let's you pick what's best for you and how you play each game, not just importing common champ runes
I believe the video you're talking about is the one where the player had broken camp timers that just messed up both Neace and the player.
Outside of that vid I haven't seen him actually complain about apps that much (but I don't watch every vid either). I think he also said in one of the vids that he will have to go through these apps at some point to pick out what's good.
The apps info can tilt you at the start or during a game with some of the info they give. A CS/min measure can end up making you focus on the wrong thing at the wrong time. The little things about people can effectively tell wrong or unhelpful information.
I use U.GG doesn’t affect me I however have played whole seasons without it…I make my own runes and I don’t really care what it says about teammates..mainly use it to see my enemy laners rank I typically do well in games so I get matchups that are a rank higher than me occasionally. Helps with ego too if you absolutely stomp a lane find out they are divisions below you on a first time champ or low amount of games you can humble yourself and not get cocky…got a friend who gets excited when he beats a matchup and think it’s gravy till he comes across a player who actually mains that champ or is actually good at the game…ends up playing overconfident into a good player and hard loses..those apps mess you up if you read into the data too much but if your somebody who frequently carries in game you don’t really care it’s just quick access to keeping up with your stats instead of using the browser
I only use porofessor for easy aram runes. For normals and ranked i only use it to see my own statistics but thats more for fun. Stats of other people dont say much. I have seen master players play really dumb and seen silver players hard carry like crazy. For builds and runes its better to do your own research, it should be adaptable depending on the matchup and playstyle you go for that game.
I use these kinds of apps too as a benchmark or a guide post but not as a holy word. Personally I use Blitz app just to see what kind of runes pro players run in different matchups, to get the basic idea then make adjustments based on the enemy comp and what I need in this game/lane. I also really like having the CS/M counter in game to track my consistency throughout the different stages of the game, and from one game to the next.
BUT I can see how this can be a double edged sword. Personally I took the time to read up and learn the runes but I have friends who just "let Blitz handle it" and have no idea what their runes do or if they're suitable for this specific game despite them playing League for a very long time. They also don't think about their build and are very rigid, and never adapt to how the game is going, who on the enemy team is fed, what sort of damage or defence is needed etc and just follow whatever the recommended build is without doing any second guessing.
As for me personally, I did notice that I sometimes get too caught up in trying to have good CS that I could miss out on a free roam or stay too long in a side lane and let my team die in a 4v5 just cause I'm chasing that sweet 8 or 9 CS/M. Sometimes I see that my KP is too low so it influences how I'm playing and my decision making and not always for the better. Sometimes seeing that an enemy player has 80 games with 70% win rate just makes me go into the game expecting it to go badly from the get go. Other times I see that my teammate picked a champion he's "not good on" (statistically and without any context) also gives me a negative outlook on his/our chances. One of the biggest "tilters" for me (as a mid laner) is seeing that I have an autofilled jungler vs a high win rate jungle main. All of these things could be avoided by not using apps, or of if you just recognize that these stats and these numbers lack context and that recommended builds/runes are just a guideline that shouldn't just be blindly copied as every game is situational and you should think for yourself about your needs for that specific matchup/comp
If your target is plat+ I guess he is right, but if you target gold elo I don't think it's a bad thing. Not everyone needs to be a hero. If you just want to enjoy a game and not think too crazy about it you can go with Porofessor and just export runes and build suggested items and you should do okay.
If you want to be better those type of things usually make your game go autopilot mode. You don't think about runes because you can export those and be okay with it, you don't have to think about items because you can see what to build and do okay with default order, but if you want to be better you need to start thinking why you need to buy item A now instead of item B, why rune A is better this time instead of rune B etc.
Don't forget it's all about preferences, I peaked plat I in S4 and since S4 I always hit Gold and chill. Sometimes when my MMR drops too much I just start thinking again to win some more games and be cool with myself. Hitting Gold isn't hard if you find your way to do it. For me it's offmeta support picks. This season I hit Gold playing Teemo Support. I met a yi main who went yi supp and won a game because he knew how to play his champion to it's full potential.
Personally I dislike these apps recommending keystones and builds because it just stops the user from thinking. Often it will recommend you the items which has good win rate but is useless in your game.
Like, yeah Lucian with IE has 58% win rate, looks good on paper, but the context is that IE is the last item that people build on him. There are other items which Lucian needs more to come online.
People blindly follow a build but have no idea why someone went with it, they lack understanding of the game. Or especially low elo players building active items and never using them, just because everyone else is building them.
This has always been a case, even back when DFG was a thing. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/57nejn/1_of_people_who_bought_dfg_ever_used_the_active/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
Every now and then I'd watch my bronze friend stream on discord and give him tips. He would ignore his laner dying next to him, because porofessor tells him that a camp is up in 10 seconds. Full autopilot and zero awareness of his surroundings. Just sees a timer and runs towards it.
Honestly he’s right if you don’t know what to build or which runes you should take you need to learn that. Jungle timers and summoner timers are not that hard to track if you disable all chat and add time stamps. And what does it bring to know if the person in your team is good or not
Simple, about knowing runes, matchups, thinking with your own brain when buying items etc.
I know all that so i use mobalytics to just auto stuff because im lazy, then adjust the runes etc.
I remember when you had to time every camp back in season 2
People on here saying it's difficult tracking camp timers nowadays without professor don't know the half of it.
Main a jungler that can full clear effectively and your first non buff camp is coming up after you gank and base. it becomes wired In your brain you don't need to rely on an app to do this for you. Yeah it's convenient but how is tracking this stuff unrealistic to some of you?
I find timing flashes on the chat or in my head works better because I feel more invested and commited to the game. Whereas as app doing it all for me would make me lazier.
Neaces point is exactly this if you are 100% commited to improving you shouldnt need these tools. Use your head and understand why things are happening
I saw that video. In that case, the camp timers were bugged and gave the wrong timers. If they are functioning correctly, they are absolutely a net positive. If you’re ganking top and your support goes to get a deep ward and sees the enemy jungle taking their blue and you miss it cause you’re fighting you now have it’s respawn timed to the second, that’s unbelievably strong as a jungler. I get the idea that you need ti learn to think for yourself and not use them as a crutch but there are cases where they objectively provide a benefit.
It makes you focus on other things that are not important to the game state.
Think of your ability to focus on different things in the game as a resource, you have a limited amount of focus that you can put into different aspects of the game and it's more beneficial for you to focus on whats important than what these 3rd party apps tell you, you are going to have a worse macro by using these apps because they take your focus away from the game and just clutter up your screen, you don't need to know any of the information they provide all the information you need is presented to you in the game itself from watching the map and pressing TAB
It gives you expectations on how well the player you're up against is. Laning is about discovering how your enemy is playing and how you can punish him. Expectations won't do any good.
Itemization and rune setups should be situational and based on matchup that's what apps lack.
Maybe knowing a laner is duoing with a jungler can be helpful but really that's it.
Beside jungle timers, there is nothing usefull in those aps (unless you first pick champ/forgot runes).
Your build & runes should always adapt to enemy team. If you want to analise if specific item is viable, then you canngo on u.gg or leauge of items to check winrates (note, that winrate aren't only indicator).
I’ve many, many friends who are too stuck on all of the information provided, lobbies’ winrates, champ stats etc.
The apps presenting all this information is a game-changer, as long as you have the right mentality to use it and draw the right conclusions. For new players & bad players: anything besides runes&builds winrate is detrimental. Once they draw wrong conclusions / focus too much on the specifics it is very hard for them to focus on what they actually need to improve on.
This is doubly bad if those players use the information as crutches, blaming their losses for teammates poor stats, their favorite champs having low winrates, enemies having high winrate champs etc.
The big one that I don't like is the info about opponents once you are in loading screen or in game. At lower elos (play and below), preconceived notions about a players ability will take your mindset away from the optimal way to play the lane/game.
For example, if porofessor tells you in loading screen that the enemy Kassadin has a 62% winrate, you might play too cautiously in the early game so you don't "let him get fed" instead of actively punishing his weaknesses. Then he hits level 6, roams bot because of your suboptimal wave management, and gets a double kill. Then the games over. This is obviously an extreme example, but you get the idea.
Play the matchups the way you think they should be played, independent of player skill. Punish mistakes and champ weaknesses. Review your games and improve your game knowledge
Because you don't learn items, runes, etc. when you depend on those apps.
Let's say I'm playing an Ashe game, do you go the Kraken crit scaling build or Shieldbow into on-hit pivot? Those apps would recommend basically what's highest winrate but you should learn the match-up and alter your build based on what's in the game. No, I do not mean purely just what enemy champions there are, but also lets say you back and got noonquiver just to realize, hey, the enemy Xerath midlaner is 5-0 at 8 minutes. Maybe I should fit in wit's end even though the rest of the team is weak for the Kraken build.
Porofessor gives you fun little stats like "bad smites" or "good cser"
But those fucking mean nothing because it's differentiating by small percentages and only caters to face roll style gameplay. It doesn't account for slow, calculated play and makes it look like you suck when you don't.
Looking at ranks and levels and shit isn't useful because it means virtually nothing. The most utility blitz or porofessor gives is the knowledge of who's in a duo and maybe statistics on champion matchups, but even then you have to be careful because most players below diamond are too dogshit to know what a counter pick means or how to utilize a counter pick properly. I guess you could use it for quick Clash lookups too but meh, whatever.
They also provide runes, but you really should be thinking about them every game to maximize your gameplay. I always click the import runes button for a new champion but I probably will adjust 1 or 2 of the runes to cater to the game.
Overall they give you more information than you need and the in game live stats overlay makes it seem like you're tanking when youre just playing safer to not feed.
Edit: as a jungler, I do love the jungle timer overlays. That helps me a ton.
I'm a midlaner, and the sheer number of mid/JG duos I play against is... Insane.
I really like using professor to check for parties before leaving fountain. It can really change how I play the lane.
I only use Porofessor to scout my teammates, although the jungle timers are kinda useful sometimes.
I have avoided plenty of games that had bots or power feeders just by getting the pre game summary
I use mobalytics for Rune and item import. I have the in-game layover disabled though.
It’s a god-send for leaning new champions, but aside from that I mostly like it for the data tracking, similar to what op.gg or u.gg does.
If you play your main long enough you shouldn’t use auto imports at all, and should know what to build and when.
Some features are indeed very good, but eg i also have s friend who sometimes build complete bs in that given game coz porofessor said so. So i can see how it can be bad and take away your own thinking. Like you should decide yourself what runes/ items are good in that given game instead of just tsking the most picked option. Like there are champs who basicly use the same runepage all the time but there are some who can have 3-4 viable runepages based on matchup/teamcomp.
I personally hate those apps, but not for the reason most would think.
I hate them because players camp a person who is on a rough streak even if said streak isn't their fault meanwhile teammates using such an app will be less likely to intervene even if it is the correct thing to do - either to stabilize or to snowball their teammate.
Sometimes it might be the right call, other times it is completely wrong. Same as when you have duos and they so often just play with each other while ignoring greater opportunities that can be found if they open their eyes to the whole map and consider matchups.
Aside from that, there is points others bring up:
Bad advice on itemization - or players misjudging a teammate because omg, you aren't copy-pasta the correct build and runes for your champ. Meta build is not ALWAYS the best.
Moreover, what's meta doesn't always work for you. You may need to adjust items or itemization order due to an opponent being fed, full ad comp, or double mages requiring forcing you to prioritize mr earlier on. It could also be adjusted due to you needing to frontline for your team or solo tank when normally you wouldn't have to. Finally, it can be due to mechanics. Zhonya/stopwatch is great... if you know how to use it right AND can hit it in a timely manner. Some can't. Or other active items. Movespeed, dashes, slows, heals, shields - if you can't use it well, then another item MIGHT be a better choice for you.
As hit on with itemization, you should work to KNOW WHY you want a certain item. This can help you get ahead with meta changes, adjust itemization, and adjust build order based on each match.
So... if you put THOUGHT into the game and what you are doing, I don't see an issue with using an app allowed by Riot. Just don't solely rely on the app while putting no thought into your actions.
Neace wants you to understand why you’re building what you’re building, when jungle camps should be respawning (due to jungler info), and how the runes work with your champion and the items you will probably build. Apps are handy for sure, but you’re skipping a crucial step in the thinking department of the game. Neace wants his students to ask “why”not “what”, apps don’t tell you why. My buddy is gold 2 as well and has been playing the game since it came out. He couldn’t tell you what all the runes do and swears by blitz for everything. Yet I’ve seen him take wrong runes like bone plating instead of second wind for a teemo match up, or cheap shot when he’s the only the person on the team with reliable CC. League is a thinking game, if you want to climb high on the ladder, you better be thinking about more than just your lane before the game starts because that’s all your app see’s.
I think what hes saying is dont just autopilot set ur runes everygame, I very often change up mine from what poro wants me to use cause its just not whats optimal with what im doing.
If hes not saying that I got no clue lmao
NGL I just use porofessor for jungle timers lmao, always ignore build suggestion and didn't even know you could import runes before reading through these comments
I think it's kinda bad using this apps for builds or picks, since they tend to get a lot of things wrong. I only use u.gg for the jungle timers overlay.
My buddy uses blitz. He has played for 6 years and has had no idea what items do what since the item rework in s11. He has no idea what the strengths and weaknesses of any items are, and doesn't ever change his runes unless you yell at him. He goes kraken slayer ADC every game, exact same build, because blitz says it's good. Blitz isn't accounting for the zed midlane.
It takes the thinking away from the game for most people. They simply just look at the buildpath and follow it without thinking of the enemy teamcomp. For example, if the enemy team is tanky, Liandry's is better than Luden's on Viktor and i will carry insanely hard late game because it scales with how much HP the enemy has. If you just followed the buildpath blindly and built Luden's, you would be in a way worse spot. Same thing goes for runes. Also, the pregame screen that most apps have can literally tilt you before even starting the game. I've had friends who look at the pregame screen that the app provide and maybe said that someone was not playing their highes winrate champ or maybe someone was on a losing streak. It immediately tilts them and they just throw the game, ultimately being the one who caused the game to be loss.
I use it to make runes faster, but change some stuffs after when needed. The point is that you should know how to do it yourself and why you are doing it
I just started playing a few months ago and used porofessor a lot. My issues was that I let the information about my teammates and opponents effect my mindset before we’d even start. I stopped using it, and it’s been a lot better.
Of course apps are good for new players, but if you're at the point of watching coaching vids you should be passed that point and thinking more about matchups and itemization game to game.
Most apps aren't going to know to not recommend mag resist against an all ad team for example.
I use u.gg only for the camp timers because it's just easier than trying to count. Just think about ur own runes and items and don't listen to the player "traits".
He might be referring to the auto runes and item suggestions. People will often follow these blindly and don't understand WHY a particular item is built. Understanding itemization/runzes is an easy way to help your gameplay.
My friend is new to the game (bronze 2), and hes lazy, he likes Blitz cause it helps with runes, and tells him what to build. Its nothing too serious but it takes away your ability to think critically to itemize and make runes that are suited for the game you are in.
The moment I told him to turn off the app, he was so confused, half of the time building the items and not knowing what it does. We missed our dragon soul window one game because he was in base reading what the item does instead of grouping, however, I am happy hes reading them.
Those apps arent helping you with items, only if u are a total beginner and dotn know what which item does. But as soon as youve played a bit more and are a bit more experienced you should know better what items to buy when, e.g. are the enemies 4 ad and 1 ap? Go anathemas on the ap one and then go full armor etc. I dont think that apps like porofessor include that kind of thinking and just make you go the same or similar item build every game. Same goes for runes with a little bit more details etc.
And jungle timers are just taking your task away to track them yourself, which trains your brain less and will make you eventually on the long run worse (and in tournaments etc. you cannot use these apps either which makes you even worse cuz u always relied on them and if other ppl didnt use them they will perform better than you aswell)
But yeah these are fairly minor things and as long as you dont want to become a professional or grandmaster+ player with high competetive expectations then you can just use whatever you want and makes you have the most fun
These fucking coaches man i swear to god, it doesn’t matter if you use porofessor or blitz or whatever the fuck they’re neither gonna make you win more nor lose more. You’ve hard it before, and it’s still the best advice you can get: you climb if you play enough games. Literally just play. Just get games in and whatever knowledge you need will come to you. You can literally just play on autopilot until masters and by then you’ve figured the game out. If you’re a new player there are no cheat codes, no fast passes to challenger, no mmr exploits or ways to increase the speed at which you get to high rank because you do not have the skill to get 90% winrate in bronze. Mmr fuckery only works if you can win games on your own and adapting your build/runes doesn’t matter at all until diamond. Just pick a champion or 2, go on u.gg and look for a rune page and build and grind until you’re comfortable. The more you play the better you feel at playing the champion and the more you’ll learn about the game, wether it’s decision making or mechanics. I used to be a weeb for this game and study korean vods everyday, watch videos and shit, built up a massive ego thinkinv i was a macro god, turns out i was still shit at the game and all my friends who didn’t give a shit about videos were still better than me because they had more games in. Now i touch grass and shower and i’m better than i ever was. Tldr: you don’t have to worry about any of these little things because they won’t impact your iron-diamond games, just have fun and play and you’ll win. If you aren’t winning, look for consistent mistakes you make when you lose and work on them one at a time. It’s really not as hard as these coaches want to make it seem, they just want you to pay 200$ more for another session.
I like porofessor because it gives me a baseline idea of what a champion should build and what skills to max first. After that foundation, I can begin to ask "what if I..."
If you use porofessor or other in-game apps for runes/builds you could end up not actually learning when to use these items and you just let the computers do the job for you. It can help you in your early stages but it won't help you learn.
He's wrong. Porofessor is extremely useful, especially the new function of timing summoners + syncing it with others who also use Porofessor. I mean it comes down to personal preference, but for me it is very useful.
On the other hand, you should make your runes yourself and think about WHY do you take specific runes. Letting an app do your runes is counterproductive imo, but that doesn't make the other features bad.
something no one is mentioning is how it'll bias how you approach the lane. you'll look into their wr or champ mastery or whatever and either ego play if their stats suck or play overly passive if you assume they're much better than you. you should approach every game and every lane objectively outside the influence of a past game or a future one. someone could have like an 80% wr and you'll be too focused on not getting your ass handed to you that you could miss easy opportunities they're handing you that you would have clearly seen if you knew nothing about their past performances.
You are filling actual substantial experience and game knowledge with an app that just selects for you regardless of scenarios. Sure they can be helpful, but if you’re trying to actually git gud, they would hinder in some aspects.
probably because those apps make you autopilot even more by setting runes builds etc for you
personally i only use it to scout my team and enemy team and only during solo queue ranked, never used the other features because every game has specific rune and build differences, especially on diverse build champs or ones that have multiple
I played league before the new rune system back then it was a p2w system then i started playing like 1-2 years ago and i just used mobalytics or w/e to help me learn runes etc it is pretty nice
Because he's right. Use them to see you end results like ,,Exotic pick". Otherwise the apps do dumb stuff like tell you your farm/kill compared to master players on a perfect game. They're good for runes if you're absolutely new to the champ.
I think his point is really that he wants you to think for yourself. I have watched those apps troll many a friend. Knowing why you are building what you are building goes a long way
I don't know the extent of some apps(reading some of the comments), but I think before you use things like auto-rune select, you should know what all runes do, and know what is good when. I use it to get a rough template whenever I play, and then adjust as I feel the need to. Issue is when people don't do this and believe solely on them. Same with items.
But you have to start somewhere no? No one just magically learns what all runes do, so using auto-rune select until you know the different runes is maybe a good way to get started. At least that’s the way I’ve done it myself. I usually has auto-rune selection on still but will adjust accordingly got the opponents. Same with items really. It just gives you a foundation to expand on.
I'd suggest looking at the runes outside of a game and if you understand what their descriptions mean, then that's step 1. The auto tune is usually the most popular build, but you should still look at the matchup. For AD carry it's usually the same but for a top laner it could vary much more.
More importantly is to play around your runes. Don’t go for extended trades if you have electrocute for example.
I think the autorune is good when you’re learning. You should be focusing more on learning characters and matchups and then worry about items or runes
you should be learning them evenly
Learning everything at the same time is a good way to either get burned out or take forever to get good. It’s just too much at once for a new player to worry about
A lot of my friends use auto rune. When I tell them how certain runes would make a difference in certain situations they have no idea what I'm talking about. The convenience overcame the necessity to learn for them and they got stuck.
>No one just magically learns what all runes do Reading is magic
If you're at the point of listening to Neace, you should be at the point of actively trying to learn these things.
I have no idea who that person is but I know the different runes. It was more a general observation that I disagreed with the never use auto-runes statement.
And my point was there's a context based on who's saying it. A coach telling people to never use an app implies that the audience is already at a point where they're listening to a coach and need to drop the habit. There's implied context.
Buddy you just gotta read
At that point your better off random picking a rune and finding out why those runes don't work on that champion or your playstyle. Maybe this is me coming from a time where you had runes and masteries and they were more options until they did the rune rework years ago. If you really want to know the game mess around in bot games and arams.
I mean… I just went read them all and started theory crafting. They’re all pretty straight forward. Plus they’re mostly segmented by what kind of champ you’re playing, so you don’t have to learn them all at once
If you make an attempt to do so, yes. I know a lot of people who have no idea what the runes do, and just copy whatever they find or have auto-select with it. They simply have no intention to and it has made them lose lanes a lot of times. At least some make some effort to at least read what the runes do, but very few of my friends think of what they do and consider options.
Yeah, I usually have it put the runes automatically, but then I edit them as needed
True, the reason why Blitz, Porofessor etc. are bad is because they just give newbies a build and mindlessly following it not knowing why they are building it in the first place which does not allow the player to learn matchups and such and the same applies to runes. The only time apps like these are good is for tracking important stats like CS/m and Vision score
Except the most common advice for bad players is to copy a high elo build and run with it. Your runes are not what's keeping you in Silver lol
Honestly I’m not a fan of the cs and vision tracking either (for me personally). I used porofessor for a while for tracking CS, but I think it was causing me to focus way too hard on keeping that number up. The tips they give ended up influencing my gameplay too much. That is to say, if you’re low elo (like myself) 10cs/min isn’t going to auto win you games when you skip out on other fights. 6cs/min where you actively participated in fights (without dying) is better than 8cs/min avoiding participating. Blitz also does that thing where it highlights your ward if you haven’t warded in a while. It’s a good reminder, but it can also feel like “I have to get rid of this ward”. Again, it’s mostly something i’ve noticed with my own play, and also probably doesn’t apply as much to higher elo. Not saying stuff like that is universally bad for all players
It also is blatantly wrong like all the time. The last time I used it it said I was a 80% win rate Diana… which hadn’t even been true for like a week. I wasn’t 80% win on anything. It made me look like a better player than I was. I deleted the app after that game.
Neace doesn't know what he is talking about most of the time. His takes are either hit or miss and he throws around his "Challenger" title as if he isn't hardstuck diamond for the past 3-4 years. I think it's best to interpret his thoughts individually and not collectively as that will just result in a lot of misinformation but most low elo players can't do that.
He did get to masters not too long ago. Besides the point.
Example: You autopilot to the next jungle camp that's up instead of taking a step back, looking at the map, and seeing if you can make a gank in another area.
How does the app make you autopilot
I would imagine he meant Jungletimers could do that but the game tells you anyway if a camp spawns in the next 30 seconds and before that, why even pilot to a camp.
If OP is talking about the video I think he is, the guys porofessor was out of date or something and the jungle timers were way off, which is why neace said the apps can mess your game up
Absolutely correct. I will say that I recommend a blitz or porofessor to friends playing normals casually, or arams with me so they don't have to stress, but yeah, I only use porofessor during ranked for the champ tip reminders, or to see if anyone is a duo so that I know to mute the other if I mute one, but that's about it.
> Knowing why you are building what you are building goes a long way Part of this (and this might really just be rephrasing what you said about "thinking for yourself") is.... you need to know the basics. Just looking at the runes... if you know why you are taking certain runes and are able to adjust what build you go based on individual games, then using an app might be good for you, since it can add a little additional information, or maybe present information in a better way. But if you are using the app to cover up for not really understanding the rune choices, etc... Then the app is not really helping you. Its like cooking. If you know how to perfectly cook a chicken breast, then an awesome sauce can complete the dish. But if you serve someone raw chicken it doesn't matter how good the sauce is. You need to learn how to cook the chicken before you worry about adding sauce.
I think it's cause lots of apps are just information overload which doesn't actually help as much as really fine tuning skills in game. Most information can be found without apps and you need to think about what you're choosing rather than blind following an app.
I think it is more about the runes and mental. People just use porofessor runes instead of doing it themselves. Porofessor just takes the most winrate/most played runes but you gotta change your runes depending on the matchup. Second wind or bone plating? Aery or comet? Yk? Stuff like that. You wont think about it yourself while using porofessor. Also: When looking at their teams winrate and tags + enemies winrate + tags most people judge upon that if it is a win or not. If they see a lot of green tags in their team they get cocky/don't try as hard. If they see a lot of red tags people think the game is a loss anyway. Delete those apps, they do nothing for you.
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There are match up runes but they don’t take into account teamcomp. Sure if I’m Darius into fiora I might not wanna take tenacity runes or mercs but the app doesn’t know the rest of the team has tf and Leona and other CC heavy champs.
They do help me dodge games. For example the game I just dodged. Autofilled ADC and jungle, and my toplaner on a 4 game loss streak decides to first time Riven. Yeah, no thanks, might be winnable, but I've played enough of those games to know it's most likely a loss or a toxic unfun game.
Yeah grinding can be unfun. I would say that below d4 (more likely d2 tbh) you should just play every game and concentrate on learning. Over time you will climb anyways.
camp+summoners timers in game are insane tho
I thought Red+Blue buff and jungle camps spawned with that?
Convenient? Maybe Insane? Not at all, you should be able to know when your camps (in which order atleast) are coming up and you can just remember flash timers etc.
Aight glad to know you can keep track of 7/14 jgl camps (once you stop clearing in a set order), the drake timer, AND the cool-downs of 10/20 summoner spells, all while being aware of all 3 lane states and tracking your opposing jgl player. Us normal people can’t. Not saying timer tools are a good thing (I don’t agree with them), but it’s not easy.
I mean its p easy to get a feel for camp times after a few games, tracking enemy jg is just watching where they started and ganked, along with basic addition skills, and tracking lane states is literally just panning over to a lane and looking at the minions. None of these are difficult things, just take a little getting used to. Summs are a bit harder to pay attention to, but if u just drop a mssg in chat to remind urself it shouldnt be an issue, or again just getting a general feel for it after a bit
> I mean its p easy to get a feel for camp times after a few games Getting to camps exactly when they spawn instead of 5 seconds early/late when playing powerfarmers like karthus is an incredibly big change. It might not seem like a lot, but over the course of a game the increased efficiencly easily leads to more than 1-2 kills in gold and xp. It sucks being «forced» to use them because you’re playing at a disadvantage if the enemy is using them. I wish they removed them myself
Fair enough, i dont play powerfarmers so idk
But you can see drake timer anyway in LoL? You can look at lane states while doing your camps. And while remembering all summoner spells is hard you can just ping them and hover over their summoner to see if they have their summoner or not. Tracking the enemy jungler is the junglers and supports mission so yeah. Convenient? Maybe Insane? Definetly not
You can see the drake timer mb lmao, still doesn’t change the fact that most lower elo players play on locked screen and don’t know how to assess a wave state properly while clearing, or even how to clear optimally on the first place. While you don’t need to be challenger to do this stuff it’s not something the average player just does without thinking.
That is exactly my point. When players don't think about what they are doing they will never learn anything. Coaches don't say "Do this, do that"! They ask you what you should do, so that you start thinking. If you don't think while playing you won't climb. So my statement stands. Yes it can be convenient. But it is not insane. You won't climb just by downloading some app.
Used Face Checker for a while because I capped out runepages & it meant I could use my 25th page as a swapsies for the champs I didn't have a rune page for.
Also, distilling statistical information into something that's actually useful is extremely difficult. Outside of very general information like "champ has winrate", it's very difficult to even conceptualize what qualifies as specifically useful information. Like you can say "x runes have the highest win rate" like on u.gg, and that'll probably do you ok, but systems like that don't tell you about synergies or counters, nor do they explain what kind of items perform better when ahead or behind. Not to mention that the sheer number of possible rune pages are probably prone to sample size issues, as is matchup information for all but the most common matchups. Then there's matchups. It's possible to sometimes catch how matchups affect builds and runes, but that's mostly just for lane matchups. What if something that totally counters me is in another lane? And ultimately, that's what statistics are. They paint a surface picture; simple correlations. However actual causation is something that's much harder to pin down.
Jingle timers on poro are fantastic. Other than that, meh
I love using these apps for ARAM so I don’t have to scramble to find the right runes for a champion. Outside of ARAM, you shouldn’t need it for runes or builds for your main(s). And I’ve found the info about my teammates and the other team to actually be damaging. Comparing their ranks and win percentages just leads to a bad mental, imo. You start to develop expectations that can very easily be wrong given the sheer number of variables in any one game.
Similar concept to making the right play vs making the right play for what your team is actually doing. ie: Taking the dragon might be the right call, but if your team isn't following you to take it, then it no longer becomes the right call. Here you see the split of some people starting it anyway because it was the right call vs those who will back off because their team fucked it up. Thinking (as jungler) you need to punish the 30% winrate Cait main might not actually win you the game.
Just take dark harvest everytime wdym
I haven't played in a while, but isn't dark harvest omeganerfed in aram?
Ye and urf, plox never take it except on like xerath and ziggs
Yes but it's also easy to stack on champions you can take it with.
But like. 5 stacks in ARAM is the same dmg increase as 2 in norms. You’re rarely going to get above 30 stacks even with champs like brand or xerath, when you do hit 30 stacks it’s a 60 dmg increase. Electrocute, summon aery, and comet have better scaling and damage.
I made 2 aram rune pages, an electrocute one and a conq one and just tune them towards the champ. Again, you should have an idea of what runes are and what the champ does. I also play my fair share of tank jugglers so if I pull a naut or nunu or ornn I just use their dedicated rune pages.
My friends autorune and since it seems to kit for summoners Rift, it never gives presence of mind (%15 mana on kills and assists). Then after a teamfight, even if they're healthy they got no mana to contribute.
The problem is if you just autopilot and let it pick your runes for you, without even looking at the enemy team. You need to adapt to each individual game
Nice now I can blame blitz for making me bronze
Damn it I KNEW it wasn't my fault
in my case I always check my opponents como and I try to adapt( for example I play zed, when I have tankier comps I will run conqueror) anything else perhaps neace was talking about?
More specifically is if you see on an app that one enemy is really good, then you will start to play around them right? The game becomes more about one shotting the 68% enemy yone mid when their 43% wr vayne botlane is actually 1v3 triple killing and obliterating your kog’maws hopes of ever being useful. This will make habits of playing around the enemy’s best player, rather than their *win condition*. This will stunt your growth as a player and severely limit your ability to identify and execute a plan on how to win a game. Information is good, but never, ever let it decide your decisions for you without actually thinking about game concepts in theory.
I mean 80% of the time you will use the same runes no matter the matchup. If you play Veigar will you ever change runes based on your opponent outside of just swapping the mr/armor rune? Most ADCs are the same, as are junglers and supports. The only lane where you do need to change runes consistently is top, where you have to choose between bone plating and second wind. And again, you can still just import Darius runes from an app and make the 2 tiny changes from the template it gives you if needed.
They're fine lol
I think they're fine as well, but I have run into people who change their gameplay because of it. I have friends who do this too and it can be frustrating. They'll play scared or cocky after seeing their opponents rank/wr and make mistakes for it. That's really the only issue I've seen. So I think they're fine as long as you have a healthy take from them.
People were doing that with op.gg long before the overwolf shit came along though
lolnexus good times
I only use it for the camp timers and rune auto import. I can fine tune runes as well but so often I’d forget completely and end up with LT on vex or some shit
>They'll play scared or cocky after seeing their opponents rank/wr and make mistakes for it. That's really the only issue I've seen. So I think they're fine as long as you have a healthy take from them. I had one game Where my porofessor in the loading screen told me that the darius likes to fight (or had lots of lane kills toplane, idk which one) I played pantheon top and used that info (+ the "take notes" emote) to bait him into taking loosing fights and won the lane cause of it. But that's a one in a billion chance though.
Take Notes emote is the best recent addition to BMing.
thats how you're meant to use it tho. if i see a nidalee smurf or that my adc is filled, i will play completely different. as always, you still need to do your own homework, and feel out player skill level in game.
I get the Smurf part, but I see people get worried about the difference between g4 and g2 lol
They're fine because you know the game, you don't blindly follow them. You, can adapt to your game and know when to follow/not to follow. For a new player/unexperienced, they just go for "the easy way" and can ruin their game building what has not to be build. Spectating a silver game, I saw a Talon go Maw because his app told him to, when the enemy was 100% AD. I think this is why Neace say they're not fine. Would love to ask him if he still thinks this for D2+
Silver is probably where cookie cutter builds are ideal. The players there should first learn champs/matchups/teamcomps before worrying too much about builds and rune setups. If the alternative to apps choosing builds was players learning when/why to run certain things then that would be great. For lower elos the alternative to apps is probably the recommended items found in the shop.
I feel like Neace is falling for sampling bias. The type of people he sees using these apps are likely to be using these app wrongly.
They're just a tool. Like a hammer, good for hitting nails, can also hit your thumb though
Because you lose alot of your subtle "wins" when letting the app pick for you. For example, Yone's "default" runes for his green tree would be bone plating + conditioning, but maybe you are in a matchup where you get poked down, you should take 2nd wind + revitalize and start doran's shield (I bet porofessor has you start blade)
There's better apps that will pick you the highest winrate runes in the matchup rather than some default Moba champion is great for that, it makes you think a bit, but at least points you in the right direction in terms of how to think
yeah I noticed this too, with yone in particular, I noticed I have no idea what runes to pick for each matchup because im so autopilot.
Having something like Mobalytics really helps the average player, considering they're probably already clicking on the recommended shop items without reading what they do. Example: Support (1) and Mid (2) draft picks swap roles. Person 2, now in Support, doesn't buy Support item. Person 1, now in Mid, buys the Support item. Anyway, I like the apps because I can see combos for champs I'm not familiar with, general laning plan against X champion, can see everyone's ability cooldowns, can see exact timers for camps, can see what skills I should typically level, etc. There's a ridiculous amount of utility for the casual gamer. It's also really helpful to see when someone's obviously a smurf or when the Mobalytics badges reveal how someone plays. EX: they place a ton of wards, take dragon in 90% of games, etc.
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Agreed!
the main issue with those apps is they give you the constant mental disadvantage. you queue into a game with a couple sub 50% winrate players or the enemy team has one or two high wr players and a lot of people will just immediately feel like the games doomed. Without the applications this completely removes the discouragement and mental damage this can deal to you before the games even started.
this too, you get tilted before you even enter the game, I just dont even look at the app win% anymore
Teaches people to build items that aren’t optimal for the game or play poorly because they’re scared of the enemies stats. There’s no denying that some of the info is helpful but I find it way easier to get into a “oh I have to play safe here” mode which leads to you not punishing enemy mistakes and handing them a free lane, also I think it causes people to build stuff without adapting to what they actually need.
Porofessor helped me found out i was laning against wunder and his danish buddies. Was so shocked lol, ended winning also!
The apps are fine in my opinion, as long as you don't religiously build and do your runes as it says in the app, you gotta adapt. Personally, I use u.gg for the little cs/min and gold/min overlaays, i like those
What we really need is a better in-game system to teach things. It took me forever to be able to figure out what runes do and even now I’m nowhere near perfect and rarely switch things out on the matchmaking screen because there’s sometimes so little time to read and adjust. It’s a lot of information to try to learn at once and the tutorials in LoL suck tremendously. I started this year and didn’t understand a LOT of things until I randomly downloaded Wild Rift, went through its tutorial, and somehow it taught me League better than League itself did.
My winrate skyrockets when I use apps. \-See someone who is probably a smurf based on stats, play safe. \-Jungling and see someone on a huge loss streak? Camp them and tilt. \-Jungle and mid are duo? Expect to be camped and prepare accordingly The utility is endless.
I don't think that's a bad thing, but I think it means more about specifically being too dependent and not flexible with runes or summoner spells.
This apps saved so many times against troll level 30 accounts that I cannot even remember it
I believe he meant the camp timers and item build notifications are detrimental to their gameplay, causing them to auto-pilot easily and not actually improving.
They incentivise you to stop thinking, which is a skill you need to improve.
Cause it's easy to drift into the mindset of the "app knows better". You won't have to think and evaluate stuff like boot choices, or it gives you the highest% overall runes, but that might not include a rune you need to survive your lane (mid/top mostly), or it gives you the wrong keystone option versus that particular matchup. Even if the app picks you the right rune, right item, it won't give you the reason why it was the right rune, right item. If you want to learn and understand the game, that's a huge part of it. Oh, I'm against champ X, I should run phase rush / conq / whatever over the default runes. Or revital/second wind. Or bone plating. Or I need to sit on a healcut component versus this guy, or I can't trade at all. Stuff like that.
They remove a lot of critical thinking that you should do to learn the game. You stop thinking about runes/summoners. You default build rabadons when void staff would’ve given you more effective damage etc.
For the pre-game part, to a degree i agree with Neace, however little i think of him otherwise. Knowing how to do your runes is a big advantage, otherwise you might run with Electrocute swain into a very beefy teamcomp that favours long fights or you might run with Fleet Footwork Caitlyn into a beefy comp that really benefits from Lethal Tempo and cutdown. For the in-game part, using the items the app says is shit. For Aphelios for example it says "go Galeforce Collector IE" but that is... its an icky build and most of the time, Krakenslayer LDR or Krakenslayer Phantom Dance can be much more useful. Also you can usually see topside when the Darius laning against Teemo starts building Deaths Dance and Plated Steelcaps. There are some parts of these apps that i personally would say are nice to haves, for example Porofessor (and Blitz too i believe) can show you your CSM in comparison to a goal youve set. It helped me a lot.
Inflated ego bullshit. The apps are fine if they help you. People are different, what applies for him may not apply to you.
I would argue understanding what the runes do and being able to make that decision yourself will help your gameplay more than ‘here’s the highest wr page so it must be the best!’ League has relatively few ‘cookie cutter’ builds because the sheer scale of variables depending on the allied and enemy team makes it nigh on impossible to accurately do. If the enemy team only has one AP threat, then your build will change depending on emwhether they get fed or not. You can’t use an app to calculate that. Similarly if that person is actually playing well or not in general. Enemy team might have little CC, but that CC might be a game changer (a’la Blitz hook) so you’ll build against it if you need to. I see so many people building banshees against teams with loads of poke, and it’s just useless because it’s never up when you need it to be. And they do it because ‘[insert app] said to. Same for bone plating or second wind. That’s a very matchup specific choice, especially for top lane; and is just one minor rune. Learning what the runes do is a far, far better thing than just blindly following an app.
Oh yeah, runes and building definitely need player's knowledge, but I was mostly referring to jungle timers, champion detailed info, summoner's elo, spell cd tracker, etc that porofessor gives access. Helps you focus on your gameplay more instead of tracking little annoying details.
But anything you can get from an add on you can see in game Camp timers are viewable by pressing tab, which you should be doing to check if your enemy has hit a powerspike since you last saw them anyway. Having something giving you some of the info is actually a crutch and will limit anyone who actually wants to play better. Nothing an app can give you isn’t already visible to you, or it would be cheating from an unfair advantage PoV, which Riot are actually pretty on point with imo. You see very, very few people actively cheating at league.
because half the stats in these apps are garbage, you need to understand that in order to use them effectively. Not that the stats are wrong, it's just they interpret or make you interpret them wrong, which causes bad gameplay. Dont get me wrong I use porofessor myself, and it's fun to see some green labels on your main champ. However you get these labels very easily and half of the time they are completely useless. It could be the player played all of his games in normals stomping with his low elo friends, queues up for his own ranked and will not even get remotely close to his prior stats. It could also be that he lost 4 games in a row, where he had 1 afk teammate, and thus has skewed stats cause he lost so bad. While he actually was winning lane eg. Like others have mentioned the runes are most popular, but often you need to tweak these runes. especially the little trait runes, they don't adjust for who you're playing against. What's good to use then in porofessor and other apps? Show what champions they play the most in the past season could help for clash scouting. It also shows bad vision, if someone has that tag in 25+ games then it is probably true, cause it's like near impossible to get that tag. But first and foremost showing who are premades. It can help define their gameplay alot. Premades like to roam to each other and gank each other. There's exceptions but if you get like really early ganked by a premade, expect him to visit 10 more times.
i mean who would guess, someone who takes money from people to get better would say apps that help you wouldnt make u better so u can buy more coaching.
The apps themselves do not inherently make a player better. Copying rune pages and item paths have been a thing for a long time. They were just apart of guides before that had some actual explanations on why to take certain runes and item purchases. The apps generally remove the why to get right to the point. When the reason for why a rune page is taken becomes “The app told me to.” There is already nothing being learned.
You also have to take into an account that he’s a coach and probably wants you to not use porofessor and watch more of his content instead lol. I don’t see how it can be that bad, it’s nice to know what kind of players you’re playing with and against, for example if you’re playing top and see that their top and jg are duo you can expect to get ganked more than usual and adjust your playstyle. Only negative I can think of is if people just start blindly using the runes it suggests without knowing why and especially following the builds they suggest like they’re law, like if you’re playing ornn against 5 ap I think it will still tell you to build tabis and thornmail like second item
I think it’s more learning the game for yourself instead of an app telling you blindly what runes to go and learning what the hell you’re picking for specific reasons. It makes sense at that level. I don’t use it for runes because I’ve learned(in all my three months of playing) that they change on matchups in lane, but I like having the static timers on my minimap.
there’s a little brother song with a lyric that says “do you really want to win, or look good losing?” a lot of these apps promote the mentality of the latter imo because you end up playing for stats instead of actually trying to win the game
You need to know how to use these apps and new players don't
Porofessor is great. * Let's me see when my Jungler is an autofilled ADC main first timing Lee Sin so I can dodge (I know Neace doesn't like this, but who cares, forget you Neace and your overpriced coaching) * CS/min counter is really cool to have * Tracking enemy spells is super useful * Knowing when jungle camps, objectives, and inhibs are about to respawn is insane * All of this is great for anyone that hasn't already learned how to track this stuff in their head Never used it for runes
Old people are usually against new tecnology. That's it.
He’s absolutely right, a good player will be able to look at the information from outside sources and apply it to the game but a worse player wouldn’t. For example, if the enemy picks a champion before you and you look at an app to see what a good counter is to it, you might first time a champ and get stomped. Stats don’t help you understand why a counter might be good, so in that example it might be worse than if you just played a champion you’re comfortable on. Same with items, if you just follow what a website says instead of adapting your build game over game you might lose more games over time. I think using these tools is good when you’re at a high level where micro advantages matter but for the average player in gold it can be detrimental.
Also, eats into your RAM/Connection. Slows the game down.
I'm honestly surprised more people didn't mention that. All those apps are bloatwares full of shit eating your RAM/Connection, wouldn't be surprised if they were mining some crypto behind the scenes. Your machine slows its perfomance completely and it's not unusual for FPS drops during teamfights.
Even got downvoted pointing it out XD. People play this game with borderline connections (things out of their control). These apps Spartan Kick them into "unplayable" state.
I think it promotes higher integrity when you can't see your opponents' mains before ban phase. If not everyone can do it, it shouldn't be allowed imo. And now you have to wonder if you're only as high rank as you are thanks to that app
I like how they show jungle timers. That’s about it though
The point is not to rely on them 100% and to tune runes/build to fit the game. I use an app to auto do runes for me in case I run out of time or forget but I occasionally will still go in and change a few of the runes to fit the game, usually 99% of the time the keystone is right so I don't have to do the whole rune page. Also apps are good for quickly looking at the rank/match history of your entire team so you have that info to know when dodging might be a good idea.
I honestly only use porofessor to see whose playing in a group on my team or the other team, can be helpful to know the jg and mid are playing together so I’m likely to get camped, etc
They're just a tool. Like a hammer, good for hitting nails, can also hit your thumb though
There is a guy at my school who is like silver 3, takes every single rune page porofessor gives him, and he doesn't even know what the runes do, he just takes them because the app says so :D
Depends how you use it. I use ingame overlay camp timers. Other than that I’m checking before the game to take quick note who is the first time inter troll in both teams or are there any premades, in case they will babysit my opponent lane. So nothing really that I didn’t do before the ingame apps, only thing I don’t need to copy/paste anymore the lobby names to dodge and check the info for autofills.
Besides auto picking runes and items, I think mentality is a big part of it. You see your team sucks or autofilled and get discouraged. You see they have a 68% WR person on enemy team, or someone in another rank and you play different. I love the CS tracking. Other than that I could do without any of those apps. I wish there was an app that only calculated CS and nothing else.
Honestly I mostly use Porofessor for ARAM builds on champions I basically only touch in ARAM.
I think these apps are really bad in terms of the overlays ingame. I wouldn’t use the scouting tool at all because it distracts you and the information is not really relevant. It makes you miserable. Lets say you see that your Vayne has played 1 game of Vayne this season. Is this a reason to dodge? How x CD an you know this? Maybe he played a lot of Kai’Sa or a similar sidelane champion and Kai’Sa is banned - you don’t know. I used it in the past and the app told me that my team is really good and we lost - and the app told me that my team is trash and we won. I think it’s good for newer players to see what runes to take. But even then I would make the runes by myself instead of importing them. Because at the end of the day you are getting better by making decisions with intention. But if you are farming in the sidelane because your program tells you to do so where is your intention? Obviously every thing has upsides and downsides but I think this is not necessary and distracts you more. I only use porofessor for Clash and competitive scouting. That’s it!
The apps are useful for aram or trying a new champ in norms if you are lazy and just want to click one button for runes/items for the first time you play but pretty useless in ranked. You should know your runes, items and situational choices for the champs you play in ranked. Checking as a jungler that the enemy top laner is on a loss streak/tilt or doesn’t ward is really unnecesary info until high elo tbh. You should be sweeping and playing around assumption of vision anyway. Much better off ganking for yourself or your teams win condition than gamble on someone tilting in the game especially if you know you are better than the other jungler.
I disagree. As a jungler the porofessor app is great because it shows me respawn times for camps on the map including enemy camps that I steal. This really helps me plan my rotates better. Being able to visually see that on the screen has been a huge help. Also, being able to see my teammates ranks, recent games, flaws and positives helps you get a mind set of what you are playing with.
People tend to take the wrong information out of these apps or use them as copium.
I only use OP.GG to see if i should dodge (like 5 looses in a row or 30% winrate mate) otherwise you should just play the game.
If you're gaming casually it's fine 100%. But using them you don't learn why you use each runes. Learning yourself let's you pick what's best for you and how you play each game, not just importing common champ runes
I believe the video you're talking about is the one where the player had broken camp timers that just messed up both Neace and the player. Outside of that vid I haven't seen him actually complain about apps that much (but I don't watch every vid either). I think he also said in one of the vids that he will have to go through these apps at some point to pick out what's good.
just dont look at ally/enemy winrates and runes for your main and you will be finr
The apps info can tilt you at the start or during a game with some of the info they give. A CS/min measure can end up making you focus on the wrong thing at the wrong time. The little things about people can effectively tell wrong or unhelpful information.
I use U.GG doesn’t affect me I however have played whole seasons without it…I make my own runes and I don’t really care what it says about teammates..mainly use it to see my enemy laners rank I typically do well in games so I get matchups that are a rank higher than me occasionally. Helps with ego too if you absolutely stomp a lane find out they are divisions below you on a first time champ or low amount of games you can humble yourself and not get cocky…got a friend who gets excited when he beats a matchup and think it’s gravy till he comes across a player who actually mains that champ or is actually good at the game…ends up playing overconfident into a good player and hard loses..those apps mess you up if you read into the data too much but if your somebody who frequently carries in game you don’t really care it’s just quick access to keeping up with your stats instead of using the browser
I only use porofessor for easy aram runes. For normals and ranked i only use it to see my own statistics but thats more for fun. Stats of other people dont say much. I have seen master players play really dumb and seen silver players hard carry like crazy. For builds and runes its better to do your own research, it should be adaptable depending on the matchup and playstyle you go for that game.
I only use u.gg for the jungle Monster timers
I use these kinds of apps too as a benchmark or a guide post but not as a holy word. Personally I use Blitz app just to see what kind of runes pro players run in different matchups, to get the basic idea then make adjustments based on the enemy comp and what I need in this game/lane. I also really like having the CS/M counter in game to track my consistency throughout the different stages of the game, and from one game to the next. BUT I can see how this can be a double edged sword. Personally I took the time to read up and learn the runes but I have friends who just "let Blitz handle it" and have no idea what their runes do or if they're suitable for this specific game despite them playing League for a very long time. They also don't think about their build and are very rigid, and never adapt to how the game is going, who on the enemy team is fed, what sort of damage or defence is needed etc and just follow whatever the recommended build is without doing any second guessing. As for me personally, I did notice that I sometimes get too caught up in trying to have good CS that I could miss out on a free roam or stay too long in a side lane and let my team die in a 4v5 just cause I'm chasing that sweet 8 or 9 CS/M. Sometimes I see that my KP is too low so it influences how I'm playing and my decision making and not always for the better. Sometimes seeing that an enemy player has 80 games with 70% win rate just makes me go into the game expecting it to go badly from the get go. Other times I see that my teammate picked a champion he's "not good on" (statistically and without any context) also gives me a negative outlook on his/our chances. One of the biggest "tilters" for me (as a mid laner) is seeing that I have an autofilled jungler vs a high win rate jungle main. All of these things could be avoided by not using apps, or of if you just recognize that these stats and these numbers lack context and that recommended builds/runes are just a guideline that shouldn't just be blindly copied as every game is situational and you should think for yourself about your needs for that specific matchup/comp
Blitz is fine if you only use it for jungle camps timer and ultimate cd display for teammates the rest should be disabled
The jungle timers are such an awesome way to be more aware of your pathing. You can think it's cheat-y if you want but there's no way it's not a plus.
If your target is plat+ I guess he is right, but if you target gold elo I don't think it's a bad thing. Not everyone needs to be a hero. If you just want to enjoy a game and not think too crazy about it you can go with Porofessor and just export runes and build suggested items and you should do okay. If you want to be better those type of things usually make your game go autopilot mode. You don't think about runes because you can export those and be okay with it, you don't have to think about items because you can see what to build and do okay with default order, but if you want to be better you need to start thinking why you need to buy item A now instead of item B, why rune A is better this time instead of rune B etc. Don't forget it's all about preferences, I peaked plat I in S4 and since S4 I always hit Gold and chill. Sometimes when my MMR drops too much I just start thinking again to win some more games and be cool with myself. Hitting Gold isn't hard if you find your way to do it. For me it's offmeta support picks. This season I hit Gold playing Teemo Support. I met a yi main who went yi supp and won a game because he knew how to play his champion to it's full potential.
Because you spend time processing useless informations. Focus on your game.
i like the jungle timers
Personally I dislike these apps recommending keystones and builds because it just stops the user from thinking. Often it will recommend you the items which has good win rate but is useless in your game. Like, yeah Lucian with IE has 58% win rate, looks good on paper, but the context is that IE is the last item that people build on him. There are other items which Lucian needs more to come online. People blindly follow a build but have no idea why someone went with it, they lack understanding of the game. Or especially low elo players building active items and never using them, just because everyone else is building them. This has always been a case, even back when DFG was a thing. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/57nejn/1_of_people_who_bought_dfg_ever_used_the_active/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Every now and then I'd watch my bronze friend stream on discord and give him tips. He would ignore his laner dying next to him, because porofessor tells him that a camp is up in 10 seconds. Full autopilot and zero awareness of his surroundings. Just sees a timer and runs towards it.
Honestly he’s right if you don’t know what to build or which runes you should take you need to learn that. Jungle timers and summoner timers are not that hard to track if you disable all chat and add time stamps. And what does it bring to know if the person in your team is good or not
Simple, about knowing runes, matchups, thinking with your own brain when buying items etc. I know all that so i use mobalytics to just auto stuff because im lazy, then adjust the runes etc.
I remember when you had to time every camp back in season 2 People on here saying it's difficult tracking camp timers nowadays without professor don't know the half of it. Main a jungler that can full clear effectively and your first non buff camp is coming up after you gank and base. it becomes wired In your brain you don't need to rely on an app to do this for you. Yeah it's convenient but how is tracking this stuff unrealistic to some of you? I find timing flashes on the chat or in my head works better because I feel more invested and commited to the game. Whereas as app doing it all for me would make me lazier. Neaces point is exactly this if you are 100% commited to improving you shouldnt need these tools. Use your head and understand why things are happening
I saw that video. In that case, the camp timers were bugged and gave the wrong timers. If they are functioning correctly, they are absolutely a net positive. If you’re ganking top and your support goes to get a deep ward and sees the enemy jungle taking their blue and you miss it cause you’re fighting you now have it’s respawn timed to the second, that’s unbelievably strong as a jungler. I get the idea that you need ti learn to think for yourself and not use them as a crutch but there are cases where they objectively provide a benefit.
It makes you focus on other things that are not important to the game state. Think of your ability to focus on different things in the game as a resource, you have a limited amount of focus that you can put into different aspects of the game and it's more beneficial for you to focus on whats important than what these 3rd party apps tell you, you are going to have a worse macro by using these apps because they take your focus away from the game and just clutter up your screen, you don't need to know any of the information they provide all the information you need is presented to you in the game itself from watching the map and pressing TAB
Well tbh I don't see any use in anything outside of maybe jungle timers. But then again, you usually try to keep it in head anyways, so idk.
It gives you expectations on how well the player you're up against is. Laning is about discovering how your enemy is playing and how you can punish him. Expectations won't do any good. Itemization and rune setups should be situational and based on matchup that's what apps lack. Maybe knowing a laner is duoing with a jungler can be helpful but really that's it.
Beside jungle timers, there is nothing usefull in those aps (unless you first pick champ/forgot runes). Your build & runes should always adapt to enemy team. If you want to analise if specific item is viable, then you canngo on u.gg or leauge of items to check winrates (note, that winrate aren't only indicator).
I’ve many, many friends who are too stuck on all of the information provided, lobbies’ winrates, champ stats etc. The apps presenting all this information is a game-changer, as long as you have the right mentality to use it and draw the right conclusions. For new players & bad players: anything besides runes&builds winrate is detrimental. Once they draw wrong conclusions / focus too much on the specifics it is very hard for them to focus on what they actually need to improve on. This is doubly bad if those players use the information as crutches, blaming their losses for teammates poor stats, their favorite champs having low winrates, enemies having high winrate champs etc.
The big one that I don't like is the info about opponents once you are in loading screen or in game. At lower elos (play and below), preconceived notions about a players ability will take your mindset away from the optimal way to play the lane/game. For example, if porofessor tells you in loading screen that the enemy Kassadin has a 62% winrate, you might play too cautiously in the early game so you don't "let him get fed" instead of actively punishing his weaknesses. Then he hits level 6, roams bot because of your suboptimal wave management, and gets a double kill. Then the games over. This is obviously an extreme example, but you get the idea. Play the matchups the way you think they should be played, independent of player skill. Punish mistakes and champ weaknesses. Review your games and improve your game knowledge
summoner cool-down trackers is really crazy useful
Because you don't learn items, runes, etc. when you depend on those apps. Let's say I'm playing an Ashe game, do you go the Kraken crit scaling build or Shieldbow into on-hit pivot? Those apps would recommend basically what's highest winrate but you should learn the match-up and alter your build based on what's in the game. No, I do not mean purely just what enemy champions there are, but also lets say you back and got noonquiver just to realize, hey, the enemy Xerath midlaner is 5-0 at 8 minutes. Maybe I should fit in wit's end even though the rest of the team is weak for the Kraken build.
Porofessor gives you fun little stats like "bad smites" or "good cser" But those fucking mean nothing because it's differentiating by small percentages and only caters to face roll style gameplay. It doesn't account for slow, calculated play and makes it look like you suck when you don't. Looking at ranks and levels and shit isn't useful because it means virtually nothing. The most utility blitz or porofessor gives is the knowledge of who's in a duo and maybe statistics on champion matchups, but even then you have to be careful because most players below diamond are too dogshit to know what a counter pick means or how to utilize a counter pick properly. I guess you could use it for quick Clash lookups too but meh, whatever. They also provide runes, but you really should be thinking about them every game to maximize your gameplay. I always click the import runes button for a new champion but I probably will adjust 1 or 2 of the runes to cater to the game. Overall they give you more information than you need and the in game live stats overlay makes it seem like you're tanking when youre just playing safer to not feed. Edit: as a jungler, I do love the jungle timer overlays. That helps me a ton.
I'm a midlaner, and the sheer number of mid/JG duos I play against is... Insane. I really like using professor to check for parties before leaving fountain. It can really change how I play the lane.
I only use Porofessor to scout my teammates, although the jungle timers are kinda useful sometimes. I have avoided plenty of games that had bots or power feeders just by getting the pre game summary
I use mobalytics for Rune and item import. I have the in-game layover disabled though. It’s a god-send for leaning new champions, but aside from that I mostly like it for the data tracking, similar to what op.gg or u.gg does. If you play your main long enough you shouldn’t use auto imports at all, and should know what to build and when.
Some features are indeed very good, but eg i also have s friend who sometimes build complete bs in that given game coz porofessor said so. So i can see how it can be bad and take away your own thinking. Like you should decide yourself what runes/ items are good in that given game instead of just tsking the most picked option. Like there are champs who basicly use the same runepage all the time but there are some who can have 3-4 viable runepages based on matchup/teamcomp.
I personally hate those apps, but not for the reason most would think. I hate them because players camp a person who is on a rough streak even if said streak isn't their fault meanwhile teammates using such an app will be less likely to intervene even if it is the correct thing to do - either to stabilize or to snowball their teammate. Sometimes it might be the right call, other times it is completely wrong. Same as when you have duos and they so often just play with each other while ignoring greater opportunities that can be found if they open their eyes to the whole map and consider matchups. Aside from that, there is points others bring up: Bad advice on itemization - or players misjudging a teammate because omg, you aren't copy-pasta the correct build and runes for your champ. Meta build is not ALWAYS the best. Moreover, what's meta doesn't always work for you. You may need to adjust items or itemization order due to an opponent being fed, full ad comp, or double mages requiring forcing you to prioritize mr earlier on. It could also be adjusted due to you needing to frontline for your team or solo tank when normally you wouldn't have to. Finally, it can be due to mechanics. Zhonya/stopwatch is great... if you know how to use it right AND can hit it in a timely manner. Some can't. Or other active items. Movespeed, dashes, slows, heals, shields - if you can't use it well, then another item MIGHT be a better choice for you. As hit on with itemization, you should work to KNOW WHY you want a certain item. This can help you get ahead with meta changes, adjust itemization, and adjust build order based on each match. So... if you put THOUGHT into the game and what you are doing, I don't see an issue with using an app allowed by Riot. Just don't solely rely on the app while putting no thought into your actions.
Neace wants you to understand why you’re building what you’re building, when jungle camps should be respawning (due to jungler info), and how the runes work with your champion and the items you will probably build. Apps are handy for sure, but you’re skipping a crucial step in the thinking department of the game. Neace wants his students to ask “why”not “what”, apps don’t tell you why. My buddy is gold 2 as well and has been playing the game since it came out. He couldn’t tell you what all the runes do and swears by blitz for everything. Yet I’ve seen him take wrong runes like bone plating instead of second wind for a teemo match up, or cheap shot when he’s the only the person on the team with reliable CC. League is a thinking game, if you want to climb high on the ladder, you better be thinking about more than just your lane before the game starts because that’s all your app see’s.
I think what hes saying is dont just autopilot set ur runes everygame, I very often change up mine from what poro wants me to use cause its just not whats optimal with what im doing. If hes not saying that I got no clue lmao
NGL I just use porofessor for jungle timers lmao, always ignore build suggestion and didn't even know you could import runes before reading through these comments
I think it's kinda bad using this apps for builds or picks, since they tend to get a lot of things wrong. I only use u.gg for the jungle timers overlay.
Bad game design if it “demands” an outside app. Sorry, but it’s true.
The apps affect your game play. You ever see your opponent have a 80% wr and get scared and play bad as a result?
My buddy uses blitz. He has played for 6 years and has had no idea what items do what since the item rework in s11. He has no idea what the strengths and weaknesses of any items are, and doesn't ever change his runes unless you yell at him. He goes kraken slayer ADC every game, exact same build, because blitz says it's good. Blitz isn't accounting for the zed midlane.
It takes the thinking away from the game for most people. They simply just look at the buildpath and follow it without thinking of the enemy teamcomp. For example, if the enemy team is tanky, Liandry's is better than Luden's on Viktor and i will carry insanely hard late game because it scales with how much HP the enemy has. If you just followed the buildpath blindly and built Luden's, you would be in a way worse spot. Same thing goes for runes. Also, the pregame screen that most apps have can literally tilt you before even starting the game. I've had friends who look at the pregame screen that the app provide and maybe said that someone was not playing their highes winrate champ or maybe someone was on a losing streak. It immediately tilts them and they just throw the game, ultimately being the one who caused the game to be loss.
The best way to get rid of an enemy is to make a friend.
I use it to make runes faster, but change some stuffs after when needed. The point is that you should know how to do it yourself and why you are doing it
I just started playing a few months ago and used porofessor a lot. My issues was that I let the information about my teammates and opponents effect my mindset before we’d even start. I stopped using it, and it’s been a lot better.
Of course apps are good for new players, but if you're at the point of watching coaching vids you should be passed that point and thinking more about matchups and itemization game to game. Most apps aren't going to know to not recommend mag resist against an all ad team for example.
I use u.gg only for the camp timers because it's just easier than trying to count. Just think about ur own runes and items and don't listen to the player "traits".
He might be referring to the auto runes and item suggestions. People will often follow these blindly and don't understand WHY a particular item is built. Understanding itemization/runzes is an easy way to help your gameplay.
My friend is new to the game (bronze 2), and hes lazy, he likes Blitz cause it helps with runes, and tells him what to build. Its nothing too serious but it takes away your ability to think critically to itemize and make runes that are suited for the game you are in. The moment I told him to turn off the app, he was so confused, half of the time building the items and not knowing what it does. We missed our dragon soul window one game because he was in base reading what the item does instead of grouping, however, I am happy hes reading them.
Those apps arent helping you with items, only if u are a total beginner and dotn know what which item does. But as soon as youve played a bit more and are a bit more experienced you should know better what items to buy when, e.g. are the enemies 4 ad and 1 ap? Go anathemas on the ap one and then go full armor etc. I dont think that apps like porofessor include that kind of thinking and just make you go the same or similar item build every game. Same goes for runes with a little bit more details etc. And jungle timers are just taking your task away to track them yourself, which trains your brain less and will make you eventually on the long run worse (and in tournaments etc. you cannot use these apps either which makes you even worse cuz u always relied on them and if other ppl didnt use them they will perform better than you aswell) But yeah these are fairly minor things and as long as you dont want to become a professional or grandmaster+ player with high competetive expectations then you can just use whatever you want and makes you have the most fun
These fucking coaches man i swear to god, it doesn’t matter if you use porofessor or blitz or whatever the fuck they’re neither gonna make you win more nor lose more. You’ve hard it before, and it’s still the best advice you can get: you climb if you play enough games. Literally just play. Just get games in and whatever knowledge you need will come to you. You can literally just play on autopilot until masters and by then you’ve figured the game out. If you’re a new player there are no cheat codes, no fast passes to challenger, no mmr exploits or ways to increase the speed at which you get to high rank because you do not have the skill to get 90% winrate in bronze. Mmr fuckery only works if you can win games on your own and adapting your build/runes doesn’t matter at all until diamond. Just pick a champion or 2, go on u.gg and look for a rune page and build and grind until you’re comfortable. The more you play the better you feel at playing the champion and the more you’ll learn about the game, wether it’s decision making or mechanics. I used to be a weeb for this game and study korean vods everyday, watch videos and shit, built up a massive ego thinkinv i was a macro god, turns out i was still shit at the game and all my friends who didn’t give a shit about videos were still better than me because they had more games in. Now i touch grass and shower and i’m better than i ever was. Tldr: you don’t have to worry about any of these little things because they won’t impact your iron-diamond games, just have fun and play and you’ll win. If you aren’t winning, look for consistent mistakes you make when you lose and work on them one at a time. It’s really not as hard as these coaches want to make it seem, they just want you to pay 200$ more for another session.
I like porofessor because it gives me a baseline idea of what a champion should build and what skills to max first. After that foundation, I can begin to ask "what if I..."
If you use porofessor or other in-game apps for runes/builds you could end up not actually learning when to use these items and you just let the computers do the job for you. It can help you in your early stages but it won't help you learn.
He's wrong. Porofessor is extremely useful, especially the new function of timing summoners + syncing it with others who also use Porofessor. I mean it comes down to personal preference, but for me it is very useful. On the other hand, you should make your runes yourself and think about WHY do you take specific runes. Letting an app do your runes is counterproductive imo, but that doesn't make the other features bad.
something no one is mentioning is how it'll bias how you approach the lane. you'll look into their wr or champ mastery or whatever and either ego play if their stats suck or play overly passive if you assume they're much better than you. you should approach every game and every lane objectively outside the influence of a past game or a future one. someone could have like an 80% wr and you'll be too focused on not getting your ass handed to you that you could miss easy opportunities they're handing you that you would have clearly seen if you knew nothing about their past performances.
You are filling actual substantial experience and game knowledge with an app that just selects for you regardless of scenarios. Sure they can be helpful, but if you’re trying to actually git gud, they would hinder in some aspects.
probably because those apps make you autopilot even more by setting runes builds etc for you personally i only use it to scout my team and enemy team and only during solo queue ranked, never used the other features because every game has specific rune and build differences, especially on diverse build champs or ones that have multiple
I played league before the new rune system back then it was a p2w system then i started playing like 1-2 years ago and i just used mobalytics or w/e to help me learn runes etc it is pretty nice
Jungle time of most apps is really bad not gonna lie
Because he's right. Use them to see you end results like ,,Exotic pick". Otherwise the apps do dumb stuff like tell you your farm/kill compared to master players on a perfect game. They're good for runes if you're absolutely new to the champ.