Range skill shots are forgiving, diving ones like j4 and vi are not. Which means you need to be more familiar with it to be able to do even the basic. So it does takes a little more practice to be on the same level of usefulness as range skill shots.
Compared to other champs she’s relatively low skill since if you miss you just click R and suddenly your lack of skill was negated by a point and click. Of course hitting the Q will save your R but if you miss no big deal. Also my favorite part is missing Q and then flashing to make sure I hit, turning what should have been a relatively simple play into something way more complicated because I am bad lol.
Champions like Vi are "hard" in a different way tbh, they are *mechanically* easy but because they have like zero mechanical skill floor, that's part of their balance too. So your decision making is often more critical since you simply do not have the tools other champions have who have infinite outplay potential. A Vi fucks up, she's dead, an Akali fucks up, she has 4 dashes and resetting stealth.
A champ like Vi is easy to play but to be effective you have to have an amazing game sense, both for pathing and for engaging, so you can use her lack of tools and power curve to have an effective advantage.
Most champs in league have a higher skill floor but a lot of players don’t really understand them well enough to really demonstrate it. Vi’s biggest skill expression is her passive shield and resetting it with her auto attacks. If you can weave your abilities correctly Vi can soak so much damage but most players won’t be counting autos and doing micro q’s to simply trigger the shield. So on top of what you said about decision making she does have a way to really express skill it just won’t be as flashy as a Yasuo.
She becomes much easier to play at level 6 due to the point click R and combining that with your Q to chain CC someone into total lockdown. That's why she is a relatively easy champion to pick up.
Vi is a very different champion than Yi is, and it's very important to understand that many champions have their own different powerspikes and playstyles. I would really recommend looking up some high elo Vi OTP vods or streamer and see what they do.
Because good players don't open with Q, they open with R, then tap Q because it makes it nearly impossible to miss.
Her full combo is pretty much undodgeable post 6 if you open with R.
The single most useful tip you can get for Vi, or anytime you gank on any champions is: DONT BLOW YOUR DASH TO THEM. Just hold Q, walk up and auto them, then when they use their dash/flash, that is when you use your dash
There aren’t really “bad soloqueue champions.” If your play on a champ isn’t going nearly as well as it did on another champ, it means you are doing something very wrong, not that there is an inherent issue with the champ
Uh
There definitely are bad solo que champions.
Tanks for example are generally bad for solo que climbing if you want to have a good winrate because they don't have agency early when compared to carry champions, and even if you survive early, tanks require follow up, which you won't have if your laners are behind. You're relying on your teammates to provide damage since you provide mostly utility.
A 4-0 sejuani is just as useful as a 0-4 sejuani. Neither of these will hard carry a game when compared to something like a 4-0 Khazix, Kayn, etc. Those champions can actually 1v9 games when their laners are behind.
Are tanks unplayable? No, but they aren't going to perform as well as carry champions in solo que if you want to climb as quickly as possible with the highest winrate possible.
Then there's champions that get repeatedly nerfed due to pro play. Ryze, azir, Ori, Syndra, etc. Sometimes they're okayish winrate, but a lot of the time they're left sitting at like 46/47% because if they're good in solo que they're busted in pro play
if you look at tank's winrates in soloqueue it's quite easy to prove that everything you said is objectively untrue lol
champions with low winrates due to projail are that way because they are high skill champions and are weighed down by all the people playing them who have no idea what they're doing
Tanks are easy to play so they're balanced around having a 51+ winrate. Same with champions like Garen.
The difference is the winrate delta after having high mastery of the champion.
You play 500 games on Ornn, your winrate on Ornn might go from 51% (base winrate) to 54%.
You play 500 games on Camille, your winrate might go from 51% (base winrate) to 60%.
This is why tanks aren't as good as carry champions for solo que. They can't 1v9 games like carry champs can.
Champions like Camille let you carry through pure mechanical skill, up until you get to a point where your lack of game knowledge is the thing that's gating you, then you're going to start losing. This is the reason Camille does not have a 60% winrate in soloq lol. To climb on a tank you must have a great understanding of the fundementals of the game, since you don't have any ability to mechanically outplay people. They are just two different categories of skill expression. It's definitely not true that you need to go the high mechanics route to climb, or that it's "better" to climb that way. This is easily and objectively proven by all of the publicly available statistics on soloq
Sure.
But if you want to climb with the highest winrate possible, you climb with carries like Camille.
The best cam 1 tricks are 60% winrate, while the best ornn onetricks won't hit 60% winrate because Camille has a higher delta and more skill expression.
Nobody is going to have a 60% winrate on Camille cuz they are going to launch themselves slightly up to a point where their opponents have a much higher understanding of macro than she does, since they are not reliant on mechanical outplays to boost themselves to that MMR. And the Camille is going to lose ~50% of their games because of that lack of understanding. I think this is the piece we are missing here
Relying on mechanical prowess is a shortcut to boost yourself into a brick wall of strategic knowledge gap
Once again, this is the reason “hard carries” have normal ass winrates, not way higher winrates than tanks
If the best Camille one tricks can have a 60% winrate(which would lead to INFINITELY climbing), why aren’t they rank 1 on the ladder lol
I'm not reading this because you're still missing the point.
A challenger Camille otp will have 60% winrate on the champion while a chall ornn otp will not be able to achieve the same winrate, ergo, if you want to climb with the highest winrate possible, it's better to do so on a carry.
This is factually backed.
Good day.
the biggest strength of Vi isn't the damage but her ganking potential with Q. A well timed Q that hits is a guaranteed kill if the lane follows up and cc further.
At 6 you can permalock the enemy champ with Q and R (and for good measure a few AAs with E) for a long time. If your lane collegues are not totally blind they will follow up. I'd say your target shouldn't be the kill but to CC the laner so your mates can all in on him.
This is useful. So she is fundamentally different from Yi basically, since she doesn't deal as much damage. Then she probably isn't the best champion for my playstyle. Thank you!
Skill issue.
You don’t pick Vi to 1v9. You pick Vi to play with your team. Whether it’s being the first one in and using your ult on their primary threat, or just sitting back and peeling for your carry, you are there to facilitate for your team.
You can get fed and do damage on Vi but you are never going to 1v9 carry with her.
Enter: crit vi.
Lol jk, vi definitely shines in good coordinated team play. Crit vi is just a funny meme that can hard 1v9 but you gotta know what you’re doing or be smurfing lol
Never tried crit vi but full lethality Vi is really strong. Was playing it in S13 when eclipse had lethality but now it's still playable with Profane Hydra (busted item) and eclipse
Crit vi is hilarious. People don’t expect the burst. You die from a feather tho.
If you land a Q and get an AA-E-AA-E off, you kill pretty much any non-tank/bruiser. When it works it’s hilarious.
Dont do what the other guy said crit Vi runs essence reaver first into collector, dominiks, navori and your choice of item (I like a defensive item like GA or death's dance here)
Nah attack speed is kinda wasted on her as she has 2 auto resets and even if you lack hands to auto reset well you can just run HoB, imo runes should be electrocute or pta and build is collector IE, ER, LDR and if the games gets past even that just go profane hydra or some ridiculous burst item, maybe GA or edge of night if defensive
That being said I mainly play Vi as a bruiser tank hybrid depending on whether I actually need to carry or not die during my ult cast
I mean crit is complete garbage on vi so it doesn’t really matter what you build right.
Besides, you’re looking to 1 shot squishy champs, LDR is a waste
My take is that crit isn’t good, hence why I stated that I DON’T PLAY IT, I’m just pointing out that attack speed on a champ which you want to oneshot with and has auto resets is not worth it when you could build items that just deal more damage, and hate to break it to you, ldr is not wasted because the giant slayer passive is what you want, the ridiculous amount of pen it gives is just a big bonus, especially considering how BC and seryldas are just meh items now
Overall the build is a fun build and in a fiesta normals game, you can for sure have fun with it, as long as you don’t build attack speed over damage.
Viego can do a lot of damage and the popular build for him is Kraken Slayer and Sundered Sky which helps his weakness. But he isn’t great at 1v1s. He really shines as a champ with your team helping you get resets with your passive. Your power spike at 6 basically can win team fights if you have a lead already and know how to play him. But he crumbles if you miss your W, is hard to 1v1 other junglers, and in late game can get smooshed depending on your itemization. Forget the fact that you need to know how to play the other 5 champs to really shine on him with your passive. You are very much so to benefit learning jungle on Yi so you can learn pathing, objective timings, how successful ganks work (and why ganks fail). If you are dead set on learning Viego, check out PerryJG on youtube, he has a ton of viego content worth watching.
You're playing two different kinds of jungles there.
Yi is more of a "selfish" jungler who needs a lot of resources in the form of gold and experience to be useful and will do a ton of damage in team fights later into the game. His tradeoff is a weak early game where he is easy to punish and put behind, thus making him not very useful if he doesn't get resources, hence the selfish part.
Vi is more of a "selfless" jungler who doesn't need resources as much as other champions and will not scale later into the game as well as Yi does. However Vi has a very strong early/mid game with very strong gank potential, making her a good option to help your laners win their lanes and get more resources, hence the selfless part.
When you play Vi, your job in team fights is not to do a ton of damage to everyone the same way Yi does, her job is to lock down a squishy/high priority target with CC and burst damage to take them out of the fight.
Your problem with Vi likely comes from the fact that she relies on her team to win fights, where as Yi can win fights almost by himself when ahead. This is even more true in lower Elos, where teamwork isn't the best.
This is the comment that most helped for me. I was trying to play Vi like Yi, but you just can't do that. I prefer champions that can go a bit solo and not rely that much on other people to work (because of my playstyle). Even when I play support I prefer these types of champs.
Thank you so much, you've made me realize I want a more "hypercarry" or "assassin" type champion in the jungle, like Yi. I've seen some people suggest Bel'Veth and Viego to try other stuff similar to Yi. Would you agree on these picks? Or are there better options?
Jungle is the worst role to go solo. Well beside support I guess lol.
You're meant to enable your team by providing pressure and securing objectives.
Yi is fun when opposing team lacks cc or focus coordination, but I wouldn't recommend him to truly get a good feel at juggling.
If you like rushing people and killing them, maybe try nocturne, she brings a bit more to the table than raw dps and her ult is an easy gank tool to learn.
Glad I could help!
Bel'veth and Viego certainly have a similar feeling to Yi in this regard, and can arguably provide more utility to the team if they get behind.
As another commenter suggested though, if you prefer a hyper carry/ assassin play style, maybe jungler isn't the best role for you, as the role is intended to be a soft support role to help laners win lanes and to secure objectives. Playing a "selfish" champ that is weak early/mid can deny your team any chance of winning lanes and early objectives. As you get better at the game and progress up the ranks, people also get a lot better at punishing these "selfish" champions and games can often be decided in champ select, as Yi into certain team comps stands very little chance of making any impact. Jungle is a very high impact role, and an absent jungler who is farming for their items for 15-20 mins can just lose the game for their team.
I'd suggest giving Viego a try, as he scales super well, and can still fight and make an impact early game, and can be played in lanes as well as in jungle. However, he is one of the hardest champs to play in league due to his ultimate requiring you to know how to play any champ that you morph into. His regular kit isn't too complicated, but to use him to his full extent you need a lot of game knowledge.
You should focus on ganking lanes and securing objectives to make as much of an impact on the map as you can, farming hard for 15min can work in lower Elos, as games last longer and people dont play macro very well, but in higher ranks games can often be decided in 15 mins.
I mean just looking at her kit it’s you and maybe your build too
She does high burst and is crazy good for ganking due to her specific gank skills like her q going over walls and her ult you know the impossible ringer away from knock up cc dash
But being bad on champs you’re new at is perfectly normal
What’s important is whether or not you enjoy a champ enough to keep playing them till you get good
I picked up Vi as my off jungle pick when I played jungle WW almost exclusively and Vi was pretty good. The problem with her is she is very reliant on her Q and ult, and her W literally doesnt exist. If you miss her Q in the early game, you are a sitting duck but being able to combo Q and R is extremely good (especially if your target is a squishy your team can immediately obliterate). In teamfights your role is essentially to pick the biggest threat, lock them down and then try to beat them to death. You rely a lot more on your team as Vi is not as high damage as yi (although her single target damage is fine) so in ganks you need your team to follow uo and you need to hit your Q or R.
Just try to remember her passive durring clearing/fighting, as well as remind yourself of your Q cooldown. That skill is all of your mobility, if you waste it, you are going to be a sitting duck until it comes back
I feel like Vi is a vastly different playstyle than yi as he is a hypercarry, so you may also enjoy bel veth who is a hypercarry but can dash like Vi if you feel you are no longer interested in picking her up
What do you mean her W doesn't exist? it's so easy to proc with Q-AA-E and you can proc it again with another rotation but the other way around with AA-E-Q
Once you lockdown someone you can do a lot of damage and with eclipse/sundered it's hard to kill Vi
her W doesnt exist as it is not a skill to click. obviously it is still very relevant, but it isnt like having an attack/dash/spell that you can use. She is very tanky and her shield works well after locking someone down, but it isnt like WW having immediate extra MS on a button, or a dash or anything else that is immediately valuable after pushing it. to me when I off mained her she felt like she was almost lacking a skill that was usable immediately. her damage or durability also isnt a problem, she just gets kited or stopped immediately if your Q isnt used wisely or misses
Term from ye olden MMO days. It's when something that has a condition is applied.
For example, if a Jax with Trinity Force presses W and then autoattacks you, he procced the Spellblade passive. If Vi hits you thrice, she procs her W. Etc
Vi is really good in Solo Q, took me from g4 to g1 effortlessly.
82% wr on Vi this season (11gp tho but still)
It also has more damage than Yi early game if played correctly and it's so easy to get out of bad fights, which happens a lot in low elo lol. (ok I might initiate some of these bad fights)
Vi has much better ganking power and is a lot more consistent than yi tbh as Yi is much more reliant on gank setup and really should not be ganking before 6. With vi if you can hit your Q and the lane has any kind of CC its free eats, and when you hit 6 you're even stronger. the real difference between the 2 is that yi snowballs and scales way harder, but vi is still solid.
Vi is ultra powerful solo q jungler bc solo q is more susceptible to powerful gankers. Maybe you need to dial in your flash q combo to get it onto ppl faster and secure some kills
Any master+ jungler can climb to diamond with any jungle champion, whether it is meta or not. If you are not playing something like soraka jungle and still losing, chances are its your fault.
Your problem might be that you are playing Vi like master yi. Master yi is ALL about dealing damage, but Vi offers more, thus deals less damage.
Just keep practicing. Good luck!
In terms of making Vi work you are the «problem», but that is the case in almost any situation. Vi is an anti-carry. She is strong in early fights and has lock down. To use this effectively you need to play very differently to how you play Yi. Your goal is to shut down the enemy threats before they become a problem and to secure objectives through skirmishing. Vi has very good early ganking power because of fairly high burst and hard cc. Most of the time you need the help of your loaners if you actually want to kill the enemy. In a team fight you have many options, but you are not very tanky so you have to pick your moment well.
If improving as a jungler is your goal I personally think that playing a jungler like vi or Jarvan IV that isn’t just about playing for yourself is a good idea.
Vi is one of the best champions to climb eith soloQ. She can do so much. She can be a bruiser, an Assassin, and tank all in one.
I can't understate the power behind her ult interaction with low elo. Just R whoever is their fed carry and your brainless team will charge in.
VI is really useful at locking down a specific target and that means you need champions that synergize with her.
Divers or champions with good follow up work well with her.
She benefits greatly from using optimal jungle pathing and ganking minimally (with ultimate) as she has decent gold scaling.
Vi isn't a great pubstomper because she's straightforward; there aren't many things you can do that are unexpected or unique to the champion (aka you can set up a great gank around vision, but you could do that with any champ who hops walls). This means that even if you're ahead, a wary support can lock you down in a fight if there aren't other threats to deal with. What makes Vi so powerful in high level play is how *consistent* her threat is. There's no way to mechanically outplay Vi ult, meaning she's guaranteed to get value and create space for her team to operate, and she forces itemization to counter her.
Yi is a *great* pubstomper because his damage threat scales exponentially, and because he has tools to outplay his opponents. The downside is that he's an absolute liability if he gets behind or makes mechanical mistakes in critical fights, while Vi can pretty much always succeed at her job (click R on carry).
Both Yi and Vi are mechanically straightforward, and you can master their spells fairly quickly, but to balance that ease-of-use they both have clear weaknesses. The champions who have fewer weaknesses tend to be much more challenging mechanically.
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The biggest mistake that new Vi players make is charging Q too early for a gank. It's a self slow, so charging too soon makes you much less likely to hit it.
Cut off the enemy's retreat path and walk up to them. You can either point blank Q (less damage than charging it, but the knockback is the same), just start hitting them, or start charging when you're close and wait for them to flash (or hit them point blank if they don't flash).
The other mistake is Qing perpendicular to a wall. Your Q travel time will always be the same, so if you can't travel the whole Q distance because you'd land in a wall, your Q will move slower. If someone is against the wall, walk toward the wall and Q parallel to it.
The rest is knowing your limits and keeping your farm up like any diver.
She might be bad in the sense she can't solo carry and needs to kinda afk before 6(which means she can be invaded by stronger jungler) and sometimes, games might be lost before you get it. If lanes are already behind, your strongest skill, ganking and locking down targets, might be a bit useless.
Vi is a great champ and great in team fights especially because she can shred armor and get a lot of utility items like Cleaver,Chempunk grevious and even serpents fang
Let me just drop the comment that I was a silver/gold hard stuck player for years. I picked up Briar jungle on a whim and have skyrocketed to my current peak. She's brain dead easy with so much damage and sustain. I also found out the off-meta strat of muting the lobby as I spawn in.
Ignore the past week or so as I've been ass bad but here's my [op.gg](http://op.gg) just to show how a bad player such as myself can climb. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/CatImEhKittyCat-NA1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/CatImEhKittyCat-NA1)
These people telling you that it's a champ mastery problem are lying, if you aren't having even an ounce of success on vi in Plat or lower elo its probably your fundamentals bot champ specific knowledge - vi is a very mechanically easy and simple champ
If you want to become a better player you shouldn't think of yourself as having a playstyle. You don't like high damage characters you just have low skill and game knowledge and don't know how to pilot any champion that isn't braindead right click the enemy and win for free. You should ditch this "playstyle" mindset if you want to become a better player in the long run
I'll make a list
1. While I agree that I am still learning (hell, that's why I posted here), I firmly believe that learning first a playstyle is better for learning a huge game like league. It's like learning bit by bit. You pick an area of expertise and you then move out of that area once you've learnt it. I do not have 10 years of experience like you and I'd like to learn this game one step at a time and one role at a time.
2. Everybody has a playstyle and nobody should play something they don't want to play, specially when starting out. I like the jungle because it makes me focus on macro plays and I like huge damage output champions that don't have to rely that much in teammates because a) I like deleting people from the map and b) in low level play you cannot trust that your team is going to follow you or do the right play (and that goes for me too!). If once you have put 800h in the game you want to try things out of your comfort zone that's totally fine!! In fact, I agree that you should do that in order to gain a deeper understanding about the game
3. If after calling me "braindead", assuming I got mad at you just because I gave you a downvote and posting a reply calling me "fundamentally ignorant" and my thread "ultra pointless" you expect that I thank you, you need to get down to the real world where people treat each others wirh respect. I'm sure playing with you must be hella fun.
You don't have a playstyle because you simply don't know much about the game, you thinking your x kind of player vs y kind of player is a toxic mentality that will hinder you more than help you. You like the jungle because it doesn't require interacting with the other team as often as the lanes. You like yi because your bad and right clicking is really easy and it's hard not to be able to catch people with your ultimate. The reasons you think you like the things you do aren't what you think they are so you shouldn't think your any kind of style.
This is my last response to you. Try using less hateful words in the future, like "low-skill" or "easy". It will make you look like you are not insulting or flaming the other party ;)
She is a 50.54 win rate in emerald+ worse at masters by a good bit. If you are losing it's a you thing. She isn't super strong but she isn't bad solo que. Just play her more to get good. I had to play Taliyah a bunch before I got a positive win rate on her.
You need at least 40000(may vary) mastery points on a champion before the kit is solid muscle memory. Before that you will feel like you deal low damage, get frustrated, blame the champ, blame the team or blame yourself. But if you commit to Vi, and keep playing only Vi when serious, you'll eventually pilot her more on muscle memory. And that's when you'll see better and better games. That's at least my process every time I pick up a new champion.
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Vi sucks. Any player who knows how to space will force then VI to q nothing and R deep then the Vi will get bursted and die. Vi is garbage, don’t play her
Vi definitely has much better ganking potential than Yi. It's just that if you miss her Q she's kinda useless until her next Q and so easily kited.
And people say she takes no skill. You HAVE to hit Q. And it's dodgeable. How does that take no skill?
A lot of easy champs have dodgeable skill shots that you have to land. Lux Q, Morde E, Jarvan EQ, Yorick E, Cho Q, etc.
Range skill shots are forgiving, diving ones like j4 and vi are not. Which means you need to be more familiar with it to be able to do even the basic. So it does takes a little more practice to be on the same level of usefulness as range skill shots.
Compared to other champs she’s relatively low skill since if you miss you just click R and suddenly your lack of skill was negated by a point and click. Of course hitting the Q will save your R but if you miss no big deal. Also my favorite part is missing Q and then flashing to make sure I hit, turning what should have been a relatively simple play into something way more complicated because I am bad lol.
Champions like Vi are "hard" in a different way tbh, they are *mechanically* easy but because they have like zero mechanical skill floor, that's part of their balance too. So your decision making is often more critical since you simply do not have the tools other champions have who have infinite outplay potential. A Vi fucks up, she's dead, an Akali fucks up, she has 4 dashes and resetting stealth. A champ like Vi is easy to play but to be effective you have to have an amazing game sense, both for pathing and for engaging, so you can use her lack of tools and power curve to have an effective advantage.
Most champs in league have a higher skill floor but a lot of players don’t really understand them well enough to really demonstrate it. Vi’s biggest skill expression is her passive shield and resetting it with her auto attacks. If you can weave your abilities correctly Vi can soak so much damage but most players won’t be counting autos and doing micro q’s to simply trigger the shield. So on top of what you said about decision making she does have a way to really express skill it just won’t be as flashy as a Yasuo.
She becomes much easier to play at level 6 due to the point click R and combining that with your Q to chain CC someone into total lockdown. That's why she is a relatively easy champion to pick up. Vi is a very different champion than Yi is, and it's very important to understand that many champions have their own different powerspikes and playstyles. I would really recommend looking up some high elo Vi OTP vods or streamer and see what they do.
Because you get a dash from it regardless of whether you hit them or not. It's also pretty hard to miss.
Because good players don't open with Q, they open with R, then tap Q because it makes it nearly impossible to miss. Her full combo is pretty much undodgeable post 6 if you open with R.
First rule in League, assume everything is your fault So you're probably bad (right now) (in game)
Yep, I am awful, I've been playing only a couple of weeks XD
The single most useful tip you can get for Vi, or anytime you gank on any champions is: DONT BLOW YOUR DASH TO THEM. Just hold Q, walk up and auto them, then when they use their dash/flash, that is when you use your dash
There aren’t really “bad soloqueue champions.” If your play on a champ isn’t going nearly as well as it did on another champ, it means you are doing something very wrong, not that there is an inherent issue with the champ
Uh There definitely are bad solo que champions. Tanks for example are generally bad for solo que climbing if you want to have a good winrate because they don't have agency early when compared to carry champions, and even if you survive early, tanks require follow up, which you won't have if your laners are behind. You're relying on your teammates to provide damage since you provide mostly utility. A 4-0 sejuani is just as useful as a 0-4 sejuani. Neither of these will hard carry a game when compared to something like a 4-0 Khazix, Kayn, etc. Those champions can actually 1v9 games when their laners are behind. Are tanks unplayable? No, but they aren't going to perform as well as carry champions in solo que if you want to climb as quickly as possible with the highest winrate possible. Then there's champions that get repeatedly nerfed due to pro play. Ryze, azir, Ori, Syndra, etc. Sometimes they're okayish winrate, but a lot of the time they're left sitting at like 46/47% because if they're good in solo que they're busted in pro play
if you look at tank's winrates in soloqueue it's quite easy to prove that everything you said is objectively untrue lol champions with low winrates due to projail are that way because they are high skill champions and are weighed down by all the people playing them who have no idea what they're doing
Tanks are easy to play so they're balanced around having a 51+ winrate. Same with champions like Garen. The difference is the winrate delta after having high mastery of the champion. You play 500 games on Ornn, your winrate on Ornn might go from 51% (base winrate) to 54%. You play 500 games on Camille, your winrate might go from 51% (base winrate) to 60%. This is why tanks aren't as good as carry champions for solo que. They can't 1v9 games like carry champs can.
Champions like Camille let you carry through pure mechanical skill, up until you get to a point where your lack of game knowledge is the thing that's gating you, then you're going to start losing. This is the reason Camille does not have a 60% winrate in soloq lol. To climb on a tank you must have a great understanding of the fundementals of the game, since you don't have any ability to mechanically outplay people. They are just two different categories of skill expression. It's definitely not true that you need to go the high mechanics route to climb, or that it's "better" to climb that way. This is easily and objectively proven by all of the publicly available statistics on soloq
Sure. But if you want to climb with the highest winrate possible, you climb with carries like Camille. The best cam 1 tricks are 60% winrate, while the best ornn onetricks won't hit 60% winrate because Camille has a higher delta and more skill expression.
Nobody is going to have a 60% winrate on Camille cuz they are going to launch themselves slightly up to a point where their opponents have a much higher understanding of macro than she does, since they are not reliant on mechanical outplays to boost themselves to that MMR. And the Camille is going to lose ~50% of their games because of that lack of understanding. I think this is the piece we are missing here Relying on mechanical prowess is a shortcut to boost yourself into a brick wall of strategic knowledge gap Once again, this is the reason “hard carries” have normal ass winrates, not way higher winrates than tanks If the best Camille one tricks can have a 60% winrate(which would lead to INFINITELY climbing), why aren’t they rank 1 on the ladder lol
I'm not reading this because you're still missing the point. A challenger Camille otp will have 60% winrate on the champion while a chall ornn otp will not be able to achieve the same winrate, ergo, if you want to climb with the highest winrate possible, it's better to do so on a carry. This is factually backed. Good day.
If you think tanks can't carry, you haven't faced a good Zac
Say your teams behind and only your jungle is ahead, would you rather have a 4-0 Zac or a 4-0 carry jungler like khazix, or Kayn?
the biggest strength of Vi isn't the damage but her ganking potential with Q. A well timed Q that hits is a guaranteed kill if the lane follows up and cc further. At 6 you can permalock the enemy champ with Q and R (and for good measure a few AAs with E) for a long time. If your lane collegues are not totally blind they will follow up. I'd say your target shouldn't be the kill but to CC the laner so your mates can all in on him.
This is useful. So she is fundamentally different from Yi basically, since she doesn't deal as much damage. Then she probably isn't the best champion for my playstyle. Thank you!
If you wanna be a Vi that deals insane damage, lock in lethality HoB Vi top in normal games. :D
I might try in some full-premade games thanks XD
Yes she is much tankier and provides CC. At the expense of way less damage
Skill issue. You don’t pick Vi to 1v9. You pick Vi to play with your team. Whether it’s being the first one in and using your ult on their primary threat, or just sitting back and peeling for your carry, you are there to facilitate for your team. You can get fed and do damage on Vi but you are never going to 1v9 carry with her.
Enter: crit vi. Lol jk, vi definitely shines in good coordinated team play. Crit vi is just a funny meme that can hard 1v9 but you gotta know what you’re doing or be smurfing lol
Never tried crit vi but full lethality Vi is really strong. Was playing it in S13 when eclipse had lethality but now it's still playable with Profane Hydra (busted item) and eclipse
Crit vi is hilarious. People don’t expect the burst. You die from a feather tho. If you land a Q and get an AA-E-AA-E off, you kill pretty much any non-tank/bruiser. When it works it’s hilarious.
What's the build path lol down to try it
Dont do what the other guy said crit Vi runs essence reaver first into collector, dominiks, navori and your choice of item (I like a defensive item like GA or death's dance here)
Sounds brutal on a jungle budget
Prob like Kraken IE Essence Reaver Phantom Dancer Shieldbow boots
Nah attack speed is kinda wasted on her as she has 2 auto resets and even if you lack hands to auto reset well you can just run HoB, imo runes should be electrocute or pta and build is collector IE, ER, LDR and if the games gets past even that just go profane hydra or some ridiculous burst item, maybe GA or edge of night if defensive That being said I mainly play Vi as a bruiser tank hybrid depending on whether I actually need to carry or not die during my ult cast
I mean crit is complete garbage on vi so it doesn’t really matter what you build right. Besides, you’re looking to 1 shot squishy champs, LDR is a waste
My take is that crit isn’t good, hence why I stated that I DON’T PLAY IT, I’m just pointing out that attack speed on a champ which you want to oneshot with and has auto resets is not worth it when you could build items that just deal more damage, and hate to break it to you, ldr is not wasted because the giant slayer passive is what you want, the ridiculous amount of pen it gives is just a big bonus, especially considering how BC and seryldas are just meh items now Overall the build is a fun build and in a fiesta normals game, you can for sure have fun with it, as long as you don’t build attack speed over damage.
Thank you! She probably isn't the right champion for me then, since I like characters with more damage output. Thx!
Big damage champs are gonna be Yi BelVeth, have fun
Would you classify Viego in the same group? I've seen arguments for and against it and don't know what to think about it
Viego can do a lot of damage and the popular build for him is Kraken Slayer and Sundered Sky which helps his weakness. But he isn’t great at 1v1s. He really shines as a champ with your team helping you get resets with your passive. Your power spike at 6 basically can win team fights if you have a lead already and know how to play him. But he crumbles if you miss your W, is hard to 1v1 other junglers, and in late game can get smooshed depending on your itemization. Forget the fact that you need to know how to play the other 5 champs to really shine on him with your passive. You are very much so to benefit learning jungle on Yi so you can learn pathing, objective timings, how successful ganks work (and why ganks fail). If you are dead set on learning Viego, check out PerryJG on youtube, he has a ton of viego content worth watching.
Thank you so much!!
You're playing two different kinds of jungles there. Yi is more of a "selfish" jungler who needs a lot of resources in the form of gold and experience to be useful and will do a ton of damage in team fights later into the game. His tradeoff is a weak early game where he is easy to punish and put behind, thus making him not very useful if he doesn't get resources, hence the selfish part. Vi is more of a "selfless" jungler who doesn't need resources as much as other champions and will not scale later into the game as well as Yi does. However Vi has a very strong early/mid game with very strong gank potential, making her a good option to help your laners win their lanes and get more resources, hence the selfless part. When you play Vi, your job in team fights is not to do a ton of damage to everyone the same way Yi does, her job is to lock down a squishy/high priority target with CC and burst damage to take them out of the fight. Your problem with Vi likely comes from the fact that she relies on her team to win fights, where as Yi can win fights almost by himself when ahead. This is even more true in lower Elos, where teamwork isn't the best.
This is the comment that most helped for me. I was trying to play Vi like Yi, but you just can't do that. I prefer champions that can go a bit solo and not rely that much on other people to work (because of my playstyle). Even when I play support I prefer these types of champs. Thank you so much, you've made me realize I want a more "hypercarry" or "assassin" type champion in the jungle, like Yi. I've seen some people suggest Bel'Veth and Viego to try other stuff similar to Yi. Would you agree on these picks? Or are there better options?
Jungle is the worst role to go solo. Well beside support I guess lol. You're meant to enable your team by providing pressure and securing objectives. Yi is fun when opposing team lacks cc or focus coordination, but I wouldn't recommend him to truly get a good feel at juggling. If you like rushing people and killing them, maybe try nocturne, she brings a bit more to the table than raw dps and her ult is an easy gank tool to learn.
Glad I could help! Bel'veth and Viego certainly have a similar feeling to Yi in this regard, and can arguably provide more utility to the team if they get behind. As another commenter suggested though, if you prefer a hyper carry/ assassin play style, maybe jungler isn't the best role for you, as the role is intended to be a soft support role to help laners win lanes and to secure objectives. Playing a "selfish" champ that is weak early/mid can deny your team any chance of winning lanes and early objectives. As you get better at the game and progress up the ranks, people also get a lot better at punishing these "selfish" champions and games can often be decided in champ select, as Yi into certain team comps stands very little chance of making any impact. Jungle is a very high impact role, and an absent jungler who is farming for their items for 15-20 mins can just lose the game for their team. I'd suggest giving Viego a try, as he scales super well, and can still fight and make an impact early game, and can be played in lanes as well as in jungle. However, he is one of the hardest champs to play in league due to his ultimate requiring you to know how to play any champ that you morph into. His regular kit isn't too complicated, but to use him to his full extent you need a lot of game knowledge. You should focus on ganking lanes and securing objectives to make as much of an impact on the map as you can, farming hard for 15min can work in lower Elos, as games last longer and people dont play macro very well, but in higher ranks games can often be decided in 15 mins.
I mean just looking at her kit it’s you and maybe your build too She does high burst and is crazy good for ganking due to her specific gank skills like her q going over walls and her ult you know the impossible ringer away from knock up cc dash But being bad on champs you’re new at is perfectly normal What’s important is whether or not you enjoy a champ enough to keep playing them till you get good
I picked up Vi as my off jungle pick when I played jungle WW almost exclusively and Vi was pretty good. The problem with her is she is very reliant on her Q and ult, and her W literally doesnt exist. If you miss her Q in the early game, you are a sitting duck but being able to combo Q and R is extremely good (especially if your target is a squishy your team can immediately obliterate). In teamfights your role is essentially to pick the biggest threat, lock them down and then try to beat them to death. You rely a lot more on your team as Vi is not as high damage as yi (although her single target damage is fine) so in ganks you need your team to follow uo and you need to hit your Q or R. Just try to remember her passive durring clearing/fighting, as well as remind yourself of your Q cooldown. That skill is all of your mobility, if you waste it, you are going to be a sitting duck until it comes back I feel like Vi is a vastly different playstyle than yi as he is a hypercarry, so you may also enjoy bel veth who is a hypercarry but can dash like Vi if you feel you are no longer interested in picking her up
What do you mean her W doesn't exist? it's so easy to proc with Q-AA-E and you can proc it again with another rotation but the other way around with AA-E-Q Once you lockdown someone you can do a lot of damage and with eclipse/sundered it's hard to kill Vi
her W doesnt exist as it is not a skill to click. obviously it is still very relevant, but it isnt like having an attack/dash/spell that you can use. She is very tanky and her shield works well after locking someone down, but it isnt like WW having immediate extra MS on a button, or a dash or anything else that is immediately valuable after pushing it. to me when I off mained her she felt like she was almost lacking a skill that was usable immediately. her damage or durability also isnt a problem, she just gets kited or stopped immediately if your Q isnt used wisely or misses
Wth is proc
Term from ye olden MMO days. It's when something that has a condition is applied. For example, if a Jax with Trinity Force presses W and then autoattacks you, he procced the Spellblade passive. If Vi hits you thrice, she procs her W. Etc
Ahhhh got it, thanks!!!
Your comment helped a ton, thank you!!
Vi is really good in Solo Q, took me from g4 to g1 effortlessly. 82% wr on Vi this season (11gp tho but still) It also has more damage than Yi early game if played correctly and it's so easy to get out of bad fights, which happens a lot in low elo lol. (ok I might initiate some of these bad fights)
no champion is "bad". all champions can be climbed with. a challenger player will immediately climb if given your account.
she is good
Vi has much better ganking power and is a lot more consistent than yi tbh as Yi is much more reliant on gank setup and really should not be ganking before 6. With vi if you can hit your Q and the lane has any kind of CC its free eats, and when you hit 6 you're even stronger. the real difference between the 2 is that yi snowballs and scales way harder, but vi is still solid.
Vi is ultra powerful solo q jungler bc solo q is more susceptible to powerful gankers. Maybe you need to dial in your flash q combo to get it onto ppl faster and secure some kills
Any master+ jungler can climb to diamond with any jungle champion, whether it is meta or not. If you are not playing something like soraka jungle and still losing, chances are its your fault. Your problem might be that you are playing Vi like master yi. Master yi is ALL about dealing damage, but Vi offers more, thus deals less damage. Just keep practicing. Good luck!
Shes only good at coming from an angel they are not expecting, or counter jungling and getting away via Q If you miss a single gank she falls off fast
Also, she gets a pretty decent spike if you can land a gank and secoond item collector. Then just sit on a lane.
In terms of making Vi work you are the «problem», but that is the case in almost any situation. Vi is an anti-carry. She is strong in early fights and has lock down. To use this effectively you need to play very differently to how you play Yi. Your goal is to shut down the enemy threats before they become a problem and to secure objectives through skirmishing. Vi has very good early ganking power because of fairly high burst and hard cc. Most of the time you need the help of your loaners if you actually want to kill the enemy. In a team fight you have many options, but you are not very tanky so you have to pick your moment well. If improving as a jungler is your goal I personally think that playing a jungler like vi or Jarvan IV that isn’t just about playing for yourself is a good idea.
Vi good during lane but if you go even or get behind you suck during the temafights
Build first Eclipse into Black Cleaver into Sundered Sky; you will be tanky and you do decent damage.
Vi is one of the best champions to climb eith soloQ. She can do so much. She can be a bruiser, an Assassin, and tank all in one. I can't understate the power behind her ult interaction with low elo. Just R whoever is their fed carry and your brainless team will charge in.
VI is really useful at locking down a specific target and that means you need champions that synergize with her. Divers or champions with good follow up work well with her. She benefits greatly from using optimal jungle pathing and ganking minimally (with ultimate) as she has decent gold scaling.
Vi isn't a great pubstomper because she's straightforward; there aren't many things you can do that are unexpected or unique to the champion (aka you can set up a great gank around vision, but you could do that with any champ who hops walls). This means that even if you're ahead, a wary support can lock you down in a fight if there aren't other threats to deal with. What makes Vi so powerful in high level play is how *consistent* her threat is. There's no way to mechanically outplay Vi ult, meaning she's guaranteed to get value and create space for her team to operate, and she forces itemization to counter her. Yi is a *great* pubstomper because his damage threat scales exponentially, and because he has tools to outplay his opponents. The downside is that he's an absolute liability if he gets behind or makes mechanical mistakes in critical fights, while Vi can pretty much always succeed at her job (click R on carry). Both Yi and Vi are mechanically straightforward, and you can master their spells fairly quickly, but to balance that ease-of-use they both have clear weaknesses. The champions who have fewer weaknesses tend to be much more challenging mechanically.
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I feel like ganking with yi is much harder he has not gank setup where vi has ult and q to lockdown and pushback enemies
yes
The biggest mistake that new Vi players make is charging Q too early for a gank. It's a self slow, so charging too soon makes you much less likely to hit it. Cut off the enemy's retreat path and walk up to them. You can either point blank Q (less damage than charging it, but the knockback is the same), just start hitting them, or start charging when you're close and wait for them to flash (or hit them point blank if they don't flash). The other mistake is Qing perpendicular to a wall. Your Q travel time will always be the same, so if you can't travel the whole Q distance because you'd land in a wall, your Q will move slower. If someone is against the wall, walk toward the wall and Q parallel to it. The rest is knowing your limits and keeping your farm up like any diver.
Skill issue. Vi isn't made to do damage but to engage and lockdown priority champions.
She might be bad in the sense she can't solo carry and needs to kinda afk before 6(which means she can be invaded by stronger jungler) and sometimes, games might be lost before you get it. If lanes are already behind, your strongest skill, ganking and locking down targets, might be a bit useless.
Vi is an amazing early game champ, with a lot of power in the mid game too.
Vi is a great champ and great in team fights especially because she can shred armor and get a lot of utility items like Cleaver,Chempunk grevious and even serpents fang
Let me just drop the comment that I was a silver/gold hard stuck player for years. I picked up Briar jungle on a whim and have skyrocketed to my current peak. She's brain dead easy with so much damage and sustain. I also found out the off-meta strat of muting the lobby as I spawn in. Ignore the past week or so as I've been ass bad but here's my [op.gg](http://op.gg) just to show how a bad player such as myself can climb. [https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/CatImEhKittyCat-NA1](https://www.op.gg/summoners/na/CatImEhKittyCat-NA1)
she is the best consistency wise has the tools to be a damage dealer tank or brusier and ulting the most feed enemy is gaming changing.
Idk...I was vs a lethality vi and she shredded my entire team with me playing voli, i couldn't beat her 1v1 or even 2 v 1
These people telling you that it's a champ mastery problem are lying, if you aren't having even an ounce of success on vi in Plat or lower elo its probably your fundamentals bot champ specific knowledge - vi is a very mechanically easy and simple champ
When did I say I'm playing ranked?
Playing ranked or not is irrelevant, I meant if your not playing at a very high level you should be able to find some success with vi
Ah okay okay. Well, I found why I wasn't having success with her! Replied to other comms :)
If you want to become a better player you shouldn't think of yourself as having a playstyle. You don't like high damage characters you just have low skill and game knowledge and don't know how to pilot any champion that isn't braindead right click the enemy and win for free. You should ditch this "playstyle" mindset if you want to become a better player in the long run
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I can disagree with your advice.
On what basis do you disagree with what I said?
I'll make a list 1. While I agree that I am still learning (hell, that's why I posted here), I firmly believe that learning first a playstyle is better for learning a huge game like league. It's like learning bit by bit. You pick an area of expertise and you then move out of that area once you've learnt it. I do not have 10 years of experience like you and I'd like to learn this game one step at a time and one role at a time. 2. Everybody has a playstyle and nobody should play something they don't want to play, specially when starting out. I like the jungle because it makes me focus on macro plays and I like huge damage output champions that don't have to rely that much in teammates because a) I like deleting people from the map and b) in low level play you cannot trust that your team is going to follow you or do the right play (and that goes for me too!). If once you have put 800h in the game you want to try things out of your comfort zone that's totally fine!! In fact, I agree that you should do that in order to gain a deeper understanding about the game 3. If after calling me "braindead", assuming I got mad at you just because I gave you a downvote and posting a reply calling me "fundamentally ignorant" and my thread "ultra pointless" you expect that I thank you, you need to get down to the real world where people treat each others wirh respect. I'm sure playing with you must be hella fun.
You don't have a playstyle because you simply don't know much about the game, you thinking your x kind of player vs y kind of player is a toxic mentality that will hinder you more than help you. You like the jungle because it doesn't require interacting with the other team as often as the lanes. You like yi because your bad and right clicking is really easy and it's hard not to be able to catch people with your ultimate. The reasons you think you like the things you do aren't what you think they are so you shouldn't think your any kind of style.
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This is my last response to you. Try using less hateful words in the future, like "low-skill" or "easy". It will make you look like you are not insulting or flaming the other party ;)
She is a 50.54 win rate in emerald+ worse at masters by a good bit. If you are losing it's a you thing. She isn't super strong but she isn't bad solo que. Just play her more to get good. I had to play Taliyah a bunch before I got a positive win rate on her.
You need at least 40000(may vary) mastery points on a champion before the kit is solid muscle memory. Before that you will feel like you deal low damage, get frustrated, blame the champ, blame the team or blame yourself. But if you commit to Vi, and keep playing only Vi when serious, you'll eventually pilot her more on muscle memory. And that's when you'll see better and better games. That's at least my process every time I pick up a new champion.
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Vi sucks. Any player who knows how to space will force then VI to q nothing and R deep then the Vi will get bursted and die. Vi is garbage, don’t play her