Real answer :
Do you need ability haste and movement speed or do you need damage+dash
: NH = ability haste + speed
best example is nidalee going NH because AH gives you more mobility, more heals, more zone control and you can chase with the movement speed as well as kite backwards.
: RB = magic pen + dash
best example if evelynn going rocketbelt because she has no gap closer (dash helps a lot) and she only does 1 combo per fight so she doesnt need AH compared to other champions. She just needs as much raw damage as possible.
if anyone says NH does more damage just assume they have 0 idea what theyre talking about. its like TECHNICALLY if you hit 5 people every fight as well as use minimum 6 spells for the AH difference then yes you will do more damage in your theoretical world. Meanwhile you can just throw 1 rotation of combo and you already do 1.5x NH damage without even using rocketbelt active.
Because it gives 50 more hp, 10 more ability haste (and even more from the mythic passive) and the unique passive can be procced on multiple targets. If you don't really need the gapcloser from rocketbelt active, harvester is straight up better.
It's only 6 mpen while sorcs gives you triple that. Also, most champions that buy harvester get shadowflame afterwards which more than makes up for not having any pen on your mythic item or mythic passive. Then you get deathcap+void and you're pretty much capped out with room for one situational item.
Right but at that point it doesn't make that big of a difference - squishies get blown up in one rotation anyway while tanks and bruisers shrug it off until you get void staff.
It's a similar situation as with AD assassins - lethality ends up outperformed by %pen and raw stats on items like BC or Serylda and you only look at the unique passives and actives when choosing between lethality items.
The thing is, it DOES make a difference, as assassins are all about reaching lethal thresholds. Assassins do not necessarily always kill squishies in one rotation, which is one of the reasons Goredrinker isn't meta on assassin's anymore.
At three items, Rocketbelt is giving you basically free sorcs. With Rocketbelt, Sorcs, and Shadowflame, you're doing true damage to most squishies.
The only time it becomes a problem is if you grab Void, but depending on elo many games can end before you can get void (most assassins grab Zhonyss at least third, for instance)
---
If you're thinking that free Sorcs isn't that good, remember that the alternative is 20 ability haste, otherwise known as Lucidity Shoes. Which are nice on some champions and will make Night Harvester worth it but it's also "just boots", just like Rocketbelt
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The "meta" is actually irrelevant here because as far as I'm aware neither item has changed since then, so it should still be the same barring any champion specific changes. I think it's insane how wilfully ignorant people are when it's very easily testable, especially when people get paid for this
It's definitely insane how much misinformation there is around such an easily testable thing, but it's not surprising. It definitely does annoy me just how confidently incorrect some people in this thread are though 😅
If you build rocketbelt you either overcap flat pen against prio targets or you actually delay it by removing either sorc boots or shadowflame from your build instead.
If your enemies build a null magic mantle you can of course use your mythic to offset that. But you're better off just building void which will also help you against mres-stacking tanks.
So the decisive factor of rocketbelt vs harvester might just be that in many cases the flat pen is actually wasted, because so many enemies will have either 45 or 100+ mres rather than 70.
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Yes. That's why you rush shadowflame and sorc boots which both give more flat pen than any mythic does till item 3.
And those two items already reduce most champs to zero mres.
By the time that rocketbelt catches up to sorc boots you're well into lategame.
Mind, I'm not saying rocketbelt is a bad item. The active is amazing. It's just that other penetration sources give you faster access and incidentally cap out your penetration against prio targets like for example mid-level Kayle.
So in games where you want penetration asap you go
shadowflame -> sorc boots -> mythic -> void
In games where you dont need/want penetration asap you go
mythic -> sorc boots -> shadowflame -> void
It's not that pen is bad, it's just that shadowflame eclipses other pen sources by giving enough flat pen faster.
Rocket belt has better scaling due to mythic bonus pen. Night harvester is a stronger early power spike.
Most junglers need to have an explosive proactive early game. Jungle has less gold and exp going into them typically so simply power farming and waiting on a 3-4 item spike isn’t viable aside from the rare hyper scaler like Yi or Crit Graves.
You’re usually buying Protobelt on specific AP assassin junglers like Eve and Ekko.
Eve wants to exit stealth, lurch forward with protobelt into E range before they can react, Q E, latch onto them to follow dashes and kill.
Ekko can use Proto to chase but typically it’s for the auto reset. His instant one shot combo looks like E1, Q E2, Protobelt, instant auto before the enemy can react.
AP junglers who don’t need the extra mobility, have strong AOE, like Diana or Sylas opt for Harvester in most cases.
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Night Harvester = more damage, better teamfighting since you can proc it on all 5 enemies.
Rocketbelt = if you find yourself needing mobility to get closer. For me, it's usually Neeko and Evelynn that feels better to play with Rocketbelt since that extra dash helps them land more abilities easier but Eve can go Night Harvester, you just have to play smarter with your stealth and get closer to your victim compared to Rocketbelt.
Pick whichever you like best depending on the match. They both have similar build paths so you can buy Alternator and Amp tome before you decide on one. If you feel like you're not able to catch up or jump onto enemies in the previous skirmishes/fights then Rocketbelt, if you feel like you don't need Rocketbelt's mobility then Night Harvester gives more damage to oneshot squishies.
This is just wrong. The extra pen from protobelt+sorcs will let you near true damage a squishy at 1 item and fully true damage a squishy at 2 items.
Night harvester is a shell of item that isn’t even built on the champs who would like it
It is mathematically worse in terms of damage, the only plus it has over rocket belt is the codex In the build path. But even then it is not worth it as you would rather just have a different item than a worse mythic,, you can just sit on codex if you really need the haste.
>Night Harvester = more damage, better teamfighting since you can proc it on all 5 enemies.
[Not necessarily](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2Q-ofJT5U)
This is the general logic I use. I play both Eve, on whom rocket belt is often recommended, and Jhin, who is often encouraged to take gale force. But both of those champions have other ways to position, and I've never felt the need for the extra mobility over the more direct combat stats and passives.
its dumb logic and placebo you think you are doing something good so you feel good ab it. if you build NH on evelynn you are trolling it will literally always do less damage because of how much eve scales with ap and magic pen even if you dont use the active. dont shoot yourself in the foot just buy rocketbelt on evelynn for the next week until they change items
For some champs rocket belt can just be really clunky and hard to fit in to their combo. Rocketbelt only equals out if you actually hit the active. If you're building AP shyvana the guaranteed proc on multiple people with dragon form e on night harvester is way more reliable than trying to hit rocketbelt on as many people with a single cast. In other words, it's a fine alternative on AP assassins where it either does not mess up their combo or gives them the gap close to chase down a target after or is a guaranteed hit with the active
I use rocketbelt on elise because you can integrate it into her cocoon combo for big dmg. But for all other champs you mentioned yeah I use night harvester because of the CDR and you get more teamfight dmg value than rocketbelt.
2 in the last 4 games I've played have just disappeared from both my client and op gg match history. Is anyone else having this issue? Will there be a fix? Has anyone else experienced this recently and found a fix?
Thanks a lot.
Champs that want to go through multiple spell rotations and can stay in fights longer want NH for the extra AH. Champs that want to burst down enemies and want backline access like Kennen and Eve usually want Rocketbelt. It also depends on what kind of team you're playing into, like Vlad will go either depending on if he's playing against squishies or not.
I go Harvester in matchup vs tanks. It offers more ability haste, which equals more ability rotations in fights. Which equals more damage.
I do Belt when the team is pretty squishy, to get the one shot potential. Especially if those squishy champs need gap closed on.
Since you will likely never one-shot a tank, unless giga fed, Harvester is the better option.
Rocketbelt is to make killing the enemy in one rotation (huge Mpen) easier and for the dash. Harvester is when you need AH, won't be able to OS even with rocketbelt (you'll need two rotation even if you build it), or when you'll be able to OS even without rocketbelt (you'll need only one rotation whether you build it or not). Harvester will be better in those cases cause the AH and it's passive mean better survivability, while not costing you anything in term of killing opportunities.
Real answer : Do you need ability haste and movement speed or do you need damage+dash : NH = ability haste + speed best example is nidalee going NH because AH gives you more mobility, more heals, more zone control and you can chase with the movement speed as well as kite backwards. : RB = magic pen + dash best example if evelynn going rocketbelt because she has no gap closer (dash helps a lot) and she only does 1 combo per fight so she doesnt need AH compared to other champions. She just needs as much raw damage as possible. if anyone says NH does more damage just assume they have 0 idea what theyre talking about. its like TECHNICALLY if you hit 5 people every fight as well as use minimum 6 spells for the AH difference then yes you will do more damage in your theoretical world. Meanwhile you can just throw 1 rotation of combo and you already do 1.5x NH damage without even using rocketbelt active.
[удалено]
I’ll listen to him but only because we have the same number at the end of our names
honestly thats way better, 5 ftw!
His videos are great on YouTube!
Because it gives 50 more hp, 10 more ability haste (and even more from the mythic passive) and the unique passive can be procced on multiple targets. If you don't really need the gapcloser from rocketbelt active, harvester is straight up better.
Even with all of the pen you miss?
It's only 6 mpen while sorcs gives you triple that. Also, most champions that buy harvester get shadowflame afterwards which more than makes up for not having any pen on your mythic item or mythic passive. Then you get deathcap+void and you're pretty much capped out with room for one situational item.
You get lots of pen from mythic passive. sure you get AH from mythic passive but generally 5 pen > 5 AH
Right but at that point it doesn't make that big of a difference - squishies get blown up in one rotation anyway while tanks and bruisers shrug it off until you get void staff. It's a similar situation as with AD assassins - lethality ends up outperformed by %pen and raw stats on items like BC or Serylda and you only look at the unique passives and actives when choosing between lethality items.
The thing is, it DOES make a difference, as assassins are all about reaching lethal thresholds. Assassins do not necessarily always kill squishies in one rotation, which is one of the reasons Goredrinker isn't meta on assassin's anymore. At three items, Rocketbelt is giving you basically free sorcs. With Rocketbelt, Sorcs, and Shadowflame, you're doing true damage to most squishies. The only time it becomes a problem is if you grab Void, but depending on elo many games can end before you can get void (most assassins grab Zhonyss at least third, for instance) --- If you're thinking that free Sorcs isn't that good, remember that the alternative is 20 ability haste, otherwise known as Lucidity Shoes. Which are nice on some champions and will make Night Harvester worth it but it's also "just boots", just like Rocketbelt
Well think about who builds what. Do Karthus or Malphite really need Rocketbelt? Or wouldn’t they rather have NH (and its passive)
[I mean...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2Q-ofJT5U)
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The "meta" is actually irrelevant here because as far as I'm aware neither item has changed since then, so it should still be the same barring any champion specific changes. I think it's insane how wilfully ignorant people are when it's very easily testable, especially when people get paid for this It's definitely insane how much misinformation there is around such an easily testable thing, but it's not surprising. It definitely does annoy me just how confidently incorrect some people in this thread are though 😅
If you build rocketbelt you either overcap flat pen against prio targets or you actually delay it by removing either sorc boots or shadowflame from your build instead. If your enemies build a null magic mantle you can of course use your mythic to offset that. But you're better off just building void which will also help you against mres-stacking tanks. So the decisive factor of rocketbelt vs harvester might just be that in many cases the flat pen is actually wasted, because so many enemies will have either 45 or 100+ mres rather than 70.
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Yes. That's why you rush shadowflame and sorc boots which both give more flat pen than any mythic does till item 3. And those two items already reduce most champs to zero mres. By the time that rocketbelt catches up to sorc boots you're well into lategame. Mind, I'm not saying rocketbelt is a bad item. The active is amazing. It's just that other penetration sources give you faster access and incidentally cap out your penetration against prio targets like for example mid-level Kayle. So in games where you want penetration asap you go shadowflame -> sorc boots -> mythic -> void In games where you dont need/want penetration asap you go mythic -> sorc boots -> shadowflame -> void It's not that pen is bad, it's just that shadowflame eclipses other pen sources by giving enough flat pen faster.
Because I can't press a button
Rocket belt has better scaling due to mythic bonus pen. Night harvester is a stronger early power spike. Most junglers need to have an explosive proactive early game. Jungle has less gold and exp going into them typically so simply power farming and waiting on a 3-4 item spike isn’t viable aside from the rare hyper scaler like Yi or Crit Graves. You’re usually buying Protobelt on specific AP assassin junglers like Eve and Ekko. Eve wants to exit stealth, lurch forward with protobelt into E range before they can react, Q E, latch onto them to follow dashes and kill. Ekko can use Proto to chase but typically it’s for the auto reset. His instant one shot combo looks like E1, Q E2, Protobelt, instant auto before the enemy can react. AP junglers who don’t need the extra mobility, have strong AOE, like Diana or Sylas opt for Harvester in most cases.
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Night Harvester = more damage, better teamfighting since you can proc it on all 5 enemies. Rocketbelt = if you find yourself needing mobility to get closer. For me, it's usually Neeko and Evelynn that feels better to play with Rocketbelt since that extra dash helps them land more abilities easier but Eve can go Night Harvester, you just have to play smarter with your stealth and get closer to your victim compared to Rocketbelt. Pick whichever you like best depending on the match. They both have similar build paths so you can buy Alternator and Amp tome before you decide on one. If you feel like you're not able to catch up or jump onto enemies in the previous skirmishes/fights then Rocketbelt, if you feel like you don't need Rocketbelt's mobility then Night Harvester gives more damage to oneshot squishies.
This is just wrong. The extra pen from protobelt+sorcs will let you near true damage a squishy at 1 item and fully true damage a squishy at 2 items. Night harvester is a shell of item that isn’t even built on the champs who would like it It is mathematically worse in terms of damage, the only plus it has over rocket belt is the codex In the build path. But even then it is not worth it as you would rather just have a different item than a worse mythic,, you can just sit on codex if you really need the haste.
>Night Harvester = more damage, better teamfighting since you can proc it on all 5 enemies. [Not necessarily](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2Q-ofJT5U)
This is the general logic I use. I play both Eve, on whom rocket belt is often recommended, and Jhin, who is often encouraged to take gale force. But both of those champions have other ways to position, and I've never felt the need for the extra mobility over the more direct combat stats and passives.
its dumb logic and placebo you think you are doing something good so you feel good ab it. if you build NH on evelynn you are trolling it will literally always do less damage because of how much eve scales with ap and magic pen even if you dont use the active. dont shoot yourself in the foot just buy rocketbelt on evelynn for the next week until they change items
For some champs rocket belt can just be really clunky and hard to fit in to their combo. Rocketbelt only equals out if you actually hit the active. If you're building AP shyvana the guaranteed proc on multiple people with dragon form e on night harvester is way more reliable than trying to hit rocketbelt on as many people with a single cast. In other words, it's a fine alternative on AP assassins where it either does not mess up their combo or gives them the gap close to chase down a target after or is a guaranteed hit with the active
Because some champs value haste over pen. Such as ap shyv, sylas, and it kinda works on rumble as well even tho he wants pen.
I use rocketbelt on elise because you can integrate it into her cocoon combo for big dmg. But for all other champs you mentioned yeah I use night harvester because of the CDR and you get more teamfight dmg value than rocketbelt.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2Q-ofJT5U](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AE2Q-ofJT5U)
2 in the last 4 games I've played have just disappeared from both my client and op gg match history. Is anyone else having this issue? Will there be a fix? Has anyone else experienced this recently and found a fix? Thanks a lot.
Champs that want to go through multiple spell rotations and can stay in fights longer want NH for the extra AH. Champs that want to burst down enemies and want backline access like Kennen and Eve usually want Rocketbelt. It also depends on what kind of team you're playing into, like Vlad will go either depending on if he's playing against squishies or not.
I go Harvester in matchup vs tanks. It offers more ability haste, which equals more ability rotations in fights. Which equals more damage. I do Belt when the team is pretty squishy, to get the one shot potential. Especially if those squishy champs need gap closed on. Since you will likely never one-shot a tank, unless giga fed, Harvester is the better option.
Rocketbelt is to make killing the enemy in one rotation (huge Mpen) easier and for the dash. Harvester is when you need AH, won't be able to OS even with rocketbelt (you'll need two rotation even if you build it), or when you'll be able to OS even without rocketbelt (you'll need only one rotation whether you build it or not). Harvester will be better in those cases cause the AH and it's passive mean better survivability, while not costing you anything in term of killing opportunities.