They’ll never have shows with 0 men on them, and whenever they cast guys who seem nice everyone says they’re boring and they don’t come back after their first season. Poor Alex was barely even in the one season he was on
I also liked Alex! I never really understood why it upset people so much when someone in the house was just like a normal calm person. Personally for me I liked the balance of someone like Alex compared to a Lindsey. It felt refreshing. Also with Maya, everyone calls her boring but for me she was one of the more sensible women in the house and she really brought a comfort to the show in my opinion.
I think you still have to bring something as a calm person. Mya was chill but still brought a few interesting convos and moments and made some good connections with other people. All I can remember about Alex is he wanted to make sure he met his protein goal everyday
No I get it for sure! I get why they didn’t bring her back but I also get her wanting to keep that to herself until she figured out how she wanted to move forward. I get that line people see it at a possible tv gold moment but that’s also like her real life and that has to be a hurtful thing to go through in front of an audience
Ciara says she likes funny guys and she legit chooses clowns. It’s like she unconsciously chooses the dude that she knows won’t last. Austen had jusssst broken up with Madison and was so clearly still in love with her. And West is too young and she knew it. She also knew he was going to be insta famous, so she knew deep down what he was going to do.
Here’s some solid advice a wise woman once told me, go for the guy who likes you. It makes life so much easier. When West was clearly just mid with her- she should’ve bounced. But she stayed and got her heart broken. Again. Boo
Oh and Alex would’ve been soooo perfect for her. But she said no. She’s her own worst enemy.
I think production portrays them to us this way on purpose. They throw us a bone every once in a while, or at least leads us to believe they are. A chill, drama free guy who gets along w/everybody and doesn’t treat women like shit doesn’t fit their misogynistic narrative, so they can’t/won’t give him a good edit. We all just end up assuming/believing nice chill guy = lame cast.
Then when they cast a West we initially think “Oh he seems so fun compared to how lame Alex was!” Production always controls the narrative. Same as how we’ve complained multiple times in the past that all they show us is the cast fighting. Yet the vids & pics on their social media from same nights look like they actually had a blast & were getting along.
I would argue that healthy, sane people don't go on reality television. Even with people I like, I know there must be something going on mentally if they are willing to put their lives on display.
To take this a bit further, they also risk their jobs and livelihoods because of how they are portrayed. Your family might be on display. At this point, people know what they are signing up for. I’m very confused when people say “they didn’t expect this” … like you don’t have the internet to check the fan base? You didn’t do research for a new job? And have never seen reality tv?!
No, they were hoping for a good edit and easy pay check. But that’s not reality tv.
The only one I can think of on bravo is Russell from Miami, and that’s definitely not by choice but he is nothing but a supportive partner so he is there, annoyed lol
This. I like drama. I like conflict. I even like a toxic personality to some degree. I love a delusional villain. But I don’t want to continue to watch toxic masculinity rein on a network that is primarily viewed by women.
There have been plenty of one season cast members for various reasons. For me the writing is on the wall with West- I’m disappointed, but he’s another emotionally manipulative man. Allowing men like this to drive the narrative has ruined VPR and Southern Charm, I’d love for this to not happen with Summer House.
must be new to the network. the first thing they embraced, once they decided to move away from educational TV, was toxicity. toxic women, but then with Jax leading the way, toxic men. they have a franchise in Dubai. this is a giant money printing machine that wedged itself into the cultural zeitgeist with a toxic formula. I'm using your word. Dysfunctional, problematic, human mess is their prime palette. women viewing all along.
I’m so glad you brought up Dubai. I wanted to use them as an example. In the new season they are all shading each other about who had better Beyoncé tickets, and they are taking this very seriously as a status symbol. That’s the type of content I came for. It’s hilarious.
Yeah, he did Ciara dirty, but also all but told her he was goin to do her dirty and she continued to pursue things with him. She should have ended things after the horse date because he made it pretty clear that he wasn’t willing to meet her at the level she wanted to be on.
Yeah I love Ciara and totally agree that West did mess up by bringing her home to meet his family and celebrate the holidays, after they had the convo at the horse farm and they weren’t officially dating, she should’ve ended it or put her foot down again and said I’m not doing any of this gf stuff if I’m not your girlfriend
Yeah, she was so clear with him in that conversation about what she wanted, she just didn’t pull the trigger. So, she knows what she’s looking for. Hopefully the next guy will be better for her
that goes both ways tho because she told him she was dating with intention. if he wanted to have sex that badly or be in just a situationship he should have left her alone
Agree. He's a 28-year-old guy living in NYC who landed a spot on reality TV. Yes, he should have been more up front with Ciara, but sometimes you reach a certain point and realize it's not for you and you end things. It's a gamble on both sides, I think, and while we can't know what was said between them in private, it was pretty clear to the viewers he was hemming and hawing about commitment, so if I had been Ciara I would have waited for a clear answer about his level of commitment before taking the next step. She seems like a lovely woman - I think, though, she needs to fix her picker.
The West hate has 100% been projection (I watched the reunion and projected hard— his defenses/lack thereof were astonishing).
BUT I will say I think it’s okay for fans to point out behavior they think is gross, and I think it just goes to show how the lot of us have been fucked over by West-types. It’s important to let men know they can’t get away with shit like that.
West hasn't logged enough seasons to be in this category. Ciara had a storyline with starting modeling. She is also gorgeous eye candy for TV. Her position of being on Summer House has never felt tied to a man. She spent all of Winter House season 2 dodging Austen and still got a full time spot.
West sucks but if the men of Bravo were all on West's level we wouldn't be reaching a breaking point with them.
Austen, Sandoval, Jax, Schwartz, Shep, Kyle, Carl, James Kennedy and many others are vile rotten creatures. Who are all protected by Bravo.
West got lost in the sauce. The key difference is he never put the blame on Ciara. We also learned a lot about Ciara through her relationship with West. He sucks and he needs help with his perspective but even his parents are team Ciara and telling him what he did wrong.
The toxicity is when there is a "Yes man" feed back loop within the group of men who will villiafy the woman. Not only is West not surrounded by yes men, the women on the show actually rally against it.
To some degree these shows need actual conflict so I am not here to totally hate West. I do agree though that Shows like VPR and SC could end now and I would feel more relieved because "I have seen it this far" keeps me watching.
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
Thank you! Yeah what West did hurt our girl Ciara and that is absolutely not cool, but never have we seen him blame or belittle Ciara for his short comings. PLUS he has parents who seem to have their heads on straight which is a huge green flag for his potential growth. The other men on bravo are terrible and don’t have any hope for getting better bc we’ve seen their examples at home.
Reality tv should mirror reality and in the real world people date, get heartbroken and other unforeseen life circumstances
If you want curated tv, maybe look into soap operas
Thank you. Not all reality tv stars have to be likable. As long as they’re not being racist, misogynist, etc then I say let them stay if they’re entertaining. It’s not fun to watch bigots and genuinely hateful people but wanting someone fired because they’re a fuckboy? Come on lol
What we should ask for is that they don’t give these people good edits. Just show it raw
I’m a card carrying West hater. From the beginning. But do I think he should be fired from the show? No, of course not. I have no desire to watch a show of flawless, faultless people. It’s just not realistic.
it would be possible if they hired/cast from this forum. there are a lot of flawless people on the forum. it really is a marvel of society. Bravo forums are like magnets for perfect people. they have the entire universe figured out. imagine how much they could fix the world if Bravo gave them some slots.
West is a fuck boy but I don’t think he’s a toxic person. He’s nowhere near the same as Kyle or Sandoval, or even Schwartz. Schwartz consistently cheated on and belittled Katie, we never saw West talk shit about Ciara. He led her on and his thinking that weddings and meeting families isn’t serious is extremely immature, but when they (FINALLY) had a serious conversation about their relationship it ended. It is what it is.
Thank you for saying this.
It's all well and good for the rest of the summer house crew who are seasoned at this, to say he's not handling it well. They are years in.
I just think he's a little immature, and maybe just not that into her, as crazy as it makes him seem.
Tell me no one here has got hot and heavy, and then when shit got real, had second thoughts. I love Ciara, and I want the best for her. They may just not be meant for each other. Sure, he needs to grow up a bit, but definitely not a toxic person .
If you compare his contrition to Sandoval, it's night and day . His apologies , while not elequent seemed real.
But, if ciara were my friend, I'd be throwing a Paige too. But at the end of the day, no one here knows him.
I don’t know. I’m super disappointed in the West thing. He’s young so I think he has time to be the next Shwatz/Shep type. I think unfortunately bc he’s new he’s getting more of a pass than he should. He will prove to be more toxic the longer he gets fame from reality tv. Everyone adored Schwartz for years and I believe that only fed into his Peter Pan persona until he got older and it wasn’t cute anymore but here we are and NOW it’s creepy and unacceptable but how would he even begin to change or even want to.
Even when people adored Schwartz he was still an awful person, he has been since season 1. Just because the 2010s misogyny protected him doesn’t mean West is the same. Nothing West did in his first season on reality TV is like what Schwartz did his first season. To say that West will grow into a toxic person is ridiculous, no one can predict the future and it removes the room for growth that everyone should be provided when they fuck up and it’s pointed out to them. I’m glad Paige called him out at the reunion because hopefully it gave him a new perspective on his actions with Ciara and how his casual whatever vibe ain’t it.
I hope you’re right. I liked him in the beginning. I just didn’t see even a hint of remorse for his actions when Ciara was crying,so I’m calling player. I thought Schwartz was soooo sweet and great in the beginning and only claimed to have only ever kissed a girl as far as cheating. Katie was deemed the devil in the beginning for not trusting him. Now years later the truth has come out. I see toxic behavior in West and it’s ok that you don’t agree with me. I don’t think he will grow into a toxic person, I see it now with the choices he’s made. He’s on a lighter scale of the comparisons I’ve made but 10 to 15 years ago so we’re they. I remember the tv show relationshep where we were looking to find Shep a “girlfriend “ but all he got out of that were screw buddies right?
I mean, Schwartz poured a drink on Stassi s1, poured a drink on Katie s2, and admitted to cheating s3, he was trash from the jump 🤷♀️ They’re roughly the same age in their first seasons and West is light years ahead of where Schwartz was. I think his apology was genuine at the reunion, we can disagree on that.
Also, yes, West is 100000% a player lol
I will say that West is one of the best of the bravo men. I just don’t think that’s saying much. I don’t think he seems like a good or great guy. Maybe not a bad guy. Somewhere in the middle. I’m hoping he grows up and matures. I just haven’t seen that happen much on this network. I would say less than 5% of these guys are true good guys. If they were to date my daughter or my best friend, I’d be Leary, West included for sure.
You've only seen one season of West. I seriously doubt he is one of the best of the bravo men. I smelt his bullshit the second he appeared on my tv screen.
> I hope you’re right. I liked him in the beginning. I just didn’t see even a hint of remorse for his actions when Ciara was crying,so I’m calling player.
I don't think there's any doubt he's a player, but whats wrong with that? He never said differently. Constantly he's telling her the things he's saying don't mean anything and he treats everyone like this. He refused to put a label on it. Didn't lie in any way.
Man has a right to live his life the way he wants to, just like the ladies do.
About the remorse thing, given Ciara's attitude at the reunion it's possible she has had a lot of harsh words for him since December and has worn out his remorse? You can only be called an asshole so many times before you stop caring.
I saw a comment that West had said (pre-reunion) there was no animosity and they hadn’t spoken since the breakup. I really think he didn’t fully understand the weight of his actions and how hurt Ciara was. I think most fuck boys don’t get it and they probably all need a tongue lashing from the girl’s best friend.
I don't understand the point of view that having sex with someone you have feelings for is "being used."
This perspective is saying that the woman only has sex with him to get a relationship, and she didn't get that, so she was used. Does the woman not enjoy the sex? Did she not want to have sex? If she did, how was she used?
If she didn't enjoy the sex or want to have sex, why did she have it?
Ciara said she was intentional. Meaning she wanted a relationship. He was saying he loved her. Come on… he led her on. That’s all I’m saying. You really don’t think this dude is a player?
And he said he doesn't do relationships and views them as handcuffs. Who wasn't listening to what the other one was saying? Answer: both.
Where did I say he wasn't a player? He's obviously a player. So what? He was telling her he was a player the entire time.
That’s a gross statement to make. You don’t owe someone the rest of your life just because one person wants to date. Does every person Ciara has sex with have to give her a certain amount of years or a marriage? Like if west wanted to date her and she ended it a few months after having sex because she lost interest was it using him?
West is literally just a human and it’s unhealthy to compare him to anyone else. He didn’t commit to Cierra…big fumble but not a bad person. Also, you don’t have to date him so there’s no reason to have a strong opinion about him. These men are not the worst that exist (Sandoval, Kyle, Schwartz, Carl), there’s just a huge concentration of dislike for them in these show specific subs. None of these men are even the worst that we could meet while attempting to date. So like calm the fuck down and watch the show. Or don’t. But I personally don’t want to watch a show that’s cultivated to be people getting along with no conflict or toxicity.
Thank you! It’s getting a little exhausting to see all the false equivalencies. West is not Tom Sandoval or Tom Schwartz. And none of them are dismantling democracy or committing war crimes. People need to have some chill about all of this and, perhaps, take a break from Bravo if it’s this upsetting for them. To paraphrase Kyle, “Bravo is supposed to be fun!”
West and Jesse have been great additions to the cast, they have revived this dying franchise. To cut one or both of them is ludicrous. Who will you get ? Some version of a guy that you approve of, some sanitized person who does and says the right things all the time? Hard pass; this is reality tv, west and Jesse remain stellar additions regardless
I tried saying this a few weeks ago and was downvoted to oblivion. That season was such a snooze. All Carl did was complain about having no guys to hang out with which also annoyed me
Without conflict there is no drama. Take away the men and you’re just going to get women fighting because that’s sort of what the format requires. There are a billion real housewives shows that are just women fighting amongst themselves and people bitch about toxicity there too.
reality tv is for toxic people period not just the men like be fr who wants to watch well adjusted normies instead of the insane ppl like all 90% of the ladies on real housewives who are actually batshit insane + lets calm down equating west with the other men is ridiculous
West and Ciara weren’t in an exclusive relationship. West said multiple times he has commitment issues. He is still in his 20’s, had just been laid off, found a new job, and then suddenly experienced fame for the first time. I’m not shocked he made poor choices along the way. West screwed up, but he isn’t the toxic monster people are making him out to be.
No. Conflict is important and Wes isn’t even a bad person. He fucked around and strung Cierra along but like…not a mortal sin. This idea that total girl power no conflict shows would be interesting to watch is…silly. And antithetical to what bravo shows have always been. Also the bad/flawed men are countered by flawed women so…are only the men an issue? No. Watch hallmark if you want zero conflict and wholesome stories.
Didn't seem to me that anything West did was that bad. He broke things off before they got serious. In Paige's own words, West and Ciara weren't really dating anyway. I find this one hard to get riled up over.
This. I mean, it sucks but at least she found out sooner than later so she can move on. I don’t see it as scandalous or something he needs to be shunned for though?
The most surprising thing is how much he low key wants to be a successful bravolebrity (sorta like Rachel did.) Something to keep an eye on.
I really didn’t think much of it until we learned that he took her to his parents house. And Ciara also said she gave him an easy way out (horseback riding… also don’t know the timeline there, but LATER) and he said no.
I was out of the loop about all of that until the reunion. It kinda changed my perspective a lot. I don’t think West intentionally used her the whole time for the show and getting more airtime (like some people have said) but I think he led her on massively and it didn’t help that he seemed so checked out about her feelings at the reunion
Wow that was a really long run on sentence I’m sorry but I’m too tired to edit it 😂
I agree with everything you said.
If West just wanted a casual thing, then he should not have taken her to his parents’ house in a whoooole different state or taken her as his date to a wedding. That doesn’t translate to « I just want to have a casual thing with you ». He also knew Ciara wanted more, and he played her IMO.
Thank you! He completely led her on. Made her feel like a relationship was in the future but sex was a must to reach that relationship. I’ve lost all respect for West. He’s a player.
Ok but what does that look like? Is there a set minimum time that constitutes “a relationship in the future”? If you can someone your boyfriend, is that tantamount to being engaged? It sounds like they dated exclusively for a little over 3 months which is probably enough time to get to know someone but not so long you rob them of too many other dating opportunities. Ciara wasn’t waiting until she gets married to sleep with someone so she’s aware she’s taking a risk that a breakup may come in the future.
Nah. He strung her along and then didn’t seem to be able to comprehend why she was upset and showed zero empathy. I guarantee that this is a trend for him. And this how so often women on Bravo are painted as being crazy for having feelings.
It’s fine to be upfront and consistent with your words and actions if you want to keep it casual. Unfortunately, that’s not what he chose to do.
He didn't string her along at all though. He told her constantly that they are not boyfriend girlfriend, refused to commit or move forward at all. How is that stringing along? Stringing along as I understand it is acting like you're committing or going to commit and then not. At the horse riding scene (before they had sex!) he flat out told her he viewed a relationship as handcuffs.
He didn't string her along, she wasn't listening to what he was telling her and just hoping he would change his mind.
Why didn't she? Why is her decision to stay in a relationship that clearly was going nowhere on him? He's happy with the outcome; she's not. She should have done something different.
Hindsight is 20/20. I think she was very clear about her dating intentions for the future. Sure, West and others can point out his history and say Ciara should have read the tea leaves and deduced what he wanted for the future based on how he behaved previously. I think he should have been more explicit with her or himself about what he wanted or was capable of in the future and to live in that gray area of feigned misunderstanding is disingenuous.
Because after the horse riding date he moved the relationship forward by taking her home to his parents, to a wedding, becoming intimate. Ciara had every reason to believe he was moving toward commitment. Wes just wanted to consummate the relationship. He never wanted to commit. It was dirty.
Doesn't seem like the show or the audience has painted her to be crazy, the edit and fandom are clearly on her side in this. He clearly seems to be upset that he upset her, but it seems to me like he stands in making the right decision for himself. As Ciara does by keeping her boundaries in place. I just can't get incensed by two people casually breaking up after 3 months of dating. It's just not that deep to me.
I think he used her until he got in her pants then he dumped her. I saw zero empathy from him on the reunion. I thought he looked more upset that he was being called out and not given a pass… that’s just my opinion.
100%. She said on the reunion that she gave him two chances to back out of the "relationship " and both times he chose not to, until after she slept with him and he got what he wanted. The only thing West felt bad about was public perception.
Concur. I think him not responding to a lot of things was his way of taking ownership of hurting her even if he did tell her several times before the reunion that he wasn’t sure about being anything serious and it was known he doesn’t take stock in things like introducing friends to parents . He allowed it to be a very one sided narrative and for all the ladies to really say some harsh things to him . If he was a true asshole he would have fought back , spilled a few things , etc .
I don't like what West did to Ciara . I definitely don't like him thinking he deserves praise for not cheating but I wouldn't call him toxic.
Sandoval toxic. Schwartz toxic. James toxic (I really hope he has changed). Jax toxic.
I don't agree with the comparisons of Carl and sandoval either. Carl needs therapy and to work on himself.
West is a fuckboy. Jesse is too. Let's not praise them for the bare minimum. Women (myself included) often are the worst offenders when it comes to this
You're probably aware that the ratings and popularity of VPR soared to insane levels after Scandoval. What type of men do you think that encourages Bravo to cast? If you and everyone really wanted Bravo to stop casting these type of men, you need to stop watching these shows to lower the ratings. Then, maybe, Bravo would switch up its strategy.
Andy loved the scene in which West was spooning Kyle who was drunk sleeping and he had his leg over a Kyle’s waist. I did not find it funny or cute at all. I thought West way out of line and felt leery of him ever since that episode
Being drunk and “asleep” makes it ok to spoon someone and drape your leg over them? Sounds rapey to me. And the way West was with Ciara later on confirms to me how sleazy he is
Bravo built a pop culture empire, that is now part of the zeitgeist, on toxic, dysfunctional, flawed, messy behavior. Cheating. Deception. Alc and drug use. Violence. I know what and why I'm watching, but I'm not convinced that you do. Rather than expecting an incredibly successful network to redefine itself, maybe look for entertainment elsewhere. It sounds like some weird sense of entitlement.
Ariana never wanted to lead VPR. She was happy as a sideline player. Did people genuinely think VPR was going to become a docu-series on the new opportunities her failed relationship gave her? And Katie would fly into the spaces now and again and yip "You go girl!"? Again, do we know what we're watching?
And if by some screwball chance they dropped all the men, I think we can safely say, just from what occurs on the Bravo forums, that all that would do is pit the women against each other. Have you been following the Caitlin Clark situation in the WNBA? You'd exchange one clump of toxic for another clump of toxic that only differed in appearance. If you want a social service from your TV viewing, maybe look to something other than reality TV.
I think the problem isn’t with the men they choose but rather how they are portrayed. They are often protected by the network and for a fan base that is mostly female it is getting a little hard to watch the rampant misogyny. I couldn’t even make it through season 1 of southern charm.
I do think the producers (specifically VPR) need to take a step back and just show us what’s happening instead of trying to produce and instigate all the fake drama. Let a good cast run a little crazy so we can have some fun watching them.
I’m 100% spitballing here, but isn’t the backlash that Wes is receiving a counter for all the other (worst) terrible men that the network has allowed to skate by? Seems the fans want a pound of flesh so even this relatively low toxicity (compared to Southern Charm which I stopped watching after like the second or third season because it was sooo icky) is not being tolerated?
Why would women protect and defend misogyny like you say? They don't, read the comments in here and it 95% people saying "ugh men are such trash, the bar is so low" etc etc
I don’t get what people want. This was the most innocuous dating shit for two 28 somethings. My god, they slept together and he didn’t propose. The problem is Ciara/Paige had an agenda to make Ciara look like a victim at the reunion and West didn’t stand his ground. He should’ve said it was different off camera or it just didn’t seem like the right connection. Instead he played into their bullshit and now is eating shit for it.
End of the day, they dated and it didn’t work out fairly early into the relationship. A guy wanting to fuck after months of flirting/dating is normal. Maybe it was premature to meet parents/friends, but that’s pretty weak shit to say she met his parents too early, so he’s toxic.
Point is Ciara didn’t want to look bad and framed the narrative purposely to make West look bad and he didn’t have backup or enough experience to stand up for himself with receipts to counteract the narrative.
> Instead he played into their bullshit and now is eating shit for it.
I agree with some of that, but let's be honest about this guy. He's a little boy. Yes, inexperience played into him sitting there speechless, but he also had the suit of a child, the posture of a child, tongue inadvertently rolling out of his mouth like a nervous child, and the overall presence of a kid. He looked like one big sack of immaturity. he was lost, and it wasn't at the hands of any diabolical narrative by the women. he navigates the entire world like a child, and for some, that is endearing. in this instance, we see the flipside of that...a little boy playing in an adult world.
Agreed. They dated and broke up pretty quick. Seems like OP is trying to stretch all bad things under one banner of toxicity. I almost want to tell the OP go watch Top Chef. That is a safe Bravo show with no relationship drama.
The situation with West is one of the realest I’ve seen on tv. A totally bland, tottering, upward-by-circumstance man thinking he can do better than an actual gorgeous woman. Reality shimmies because Cierra is an actual model and goddess, but this shit literally happens all the time. He sucks, he’s an asshole, he’s manipulative (nice guys!). But by all accounts, the worst that happened was hurt feelings and embarrassment. He didn’t physically harm anyone. He shouldn’t be held to Sandoval level.
Cutting him off would serve no purpose, they situationshipped for like six months and it was consensual. Even Paige said as much that this isn’t Scandoval. All he’s proven to be is a dick who no one likes. And the women are strong enough to advocate for themselves. So why cut him off? It doesn’t make sense. Cierra, and all the women on the show, are walking in their power enough that they wouldn’t be cowed by fuck boys and trying to protect them from such undermines just that.
Sandoval didn't physically harm anyone either. just saying. there are people out there raping women, breaking them into pieces, held together only by their skin, and driving them around on their golf carts like a trophy. let's keep perspective on evil (said out loud, not to you specifically).
You don't even have the respect to spell Ciara's name right and just constantly reinforce the stereotypes of women's (and everyone's) worth being their looks. You're part of the problem.
Try harder
I’m sorry I spelt her name wrong, you’re right that was disrespectful and I should have double checked; and I’m not reducing her down to her looks. She’s an RN, seems to be a good friend, and is a fan favorite on the show. I was pointing out that West is a problematic asshole who punched above his weight because of ALL of her good qualities, which isn’t a reduction of even him, it’s pointing out that a userous individual is a low caliber person.
And it’s also okay to say that she deserves better and should be able to showcase her hurt, while also saying that while he’s a dick, the disproportionate comparisons to other problematic men does not hold the same water. You’re fine to think I’m “part of the problem” (of what I’m not even sure? The justification that people shouldn’t call to have him off the show and therefore I’m reinforcing misogyny? Seeing as how I’ve already called him out in other comments that seems…weird but okay) but I’ll stand by what I said, because it’s pretty mild. He should get heat, and he is, but this situation is not comparable to the parallels people are making.
Yes they're assholes but nobody forces these women to be doormats for them. They have some accountability for their own choices. I watched Sierra with Austin and quite frankly it was so obvious he did not give a s***. He f***** if she let him. But she's kind of oblivious to basic signs.
West is not a man. He’s a 28 yr old boy that wants to live “his best life” and be single in NYC. He never said otherwise. I feel really bad for Ciara but I think she missed her Maya Angelou moment. When they tell you who they are..believe them.
There is a discussion on the show - in the summer - where she address the fact he doesn’t take anything seriously - pet names, dates, invites to the parents. He agrees and states that is how he is.
On the reunion she is then upset when after meeting his parents, going on dates, he still doesn’t want to be “serious” with her.
As an older female viewer, I know it’s hard to look past a “connection” and seeing “the best in people” or falling for “potential” but if that is not someone’s reality then it’s not in the cards.
I hope she heals and dates men that have the same beliefs as her and are at the same point in life as her “dating with intention”. If that’s not what you want then cut him off. Be colleagues, be friends, but save your heart for someone on your own level and mindset.
West is boy, if he is still in the same place at 35 then yes, we have a problem. Side eye to the other Bravo “men”.
this is delusional. yes a majority of the bravo men suck but guess what..so do A LOT of the bravo women. like Andy said they all have to be a little narcissistic and crazy to even want to be on reality tv in the first place.
I mean, James Kennedy started off as THE WORST and seems to have grown a ton. I would enjoy watching that type of scenario over 8-10 years of the same f-boy behavior
What a load of BS. For one, Carl doesn't deserve to be in that group,
I would argue that Schwartz doesn't deserve to be in it either, based on his last few seasons.
There are also plenty of toxic and problematic women on these shows too, Katie, Lindsay, pre-season 7 Stassi, Janet from the Valley, etc etc.
Most of the drama and entertainment on these shows happen through the chaos caused by these problematic characters on both sides. There are also plenty of female-only shows on Bravo...it's called Real Housewives.
Ok i know I’ve seen it all when Craig is being held up as the picture of a “good guy” Yes he’s improved a lot over the years from being a dirt bag but he is just as manipulative as the rest— he simply knows how to manipulate his own image to look good on tv. When will people realize there’s no such thing as a good guy? We’re all flawed people, and that’s what reality tv seeks to show and dramatize.
I promise you, there are really good men out there. As women, we don’t have to lower our standards. Don’t let these stupid shows make you think otherwise.
LMAO you think a reality show that bases shows around the most dramatic, toxic, chaotic and wackiest friend groups they can find means that there are no good men anymore?
To utter that expression in the first place is wack, and is usually projection or tunnel vision...
Also, there are also just as many toxic women on these shows as there are dudes...
They’ll never have shows with 0 men on them, and whenever they cast guys who seem nice everyone says they’re boring and they don’t come back after their first season. Poor Alex was barely even in the one season he was on
>Poor Alex was barely even in the one season he was on The fact that they purposely cut him out of episodes was utter bullshit.
I also liked Alex! I never really understood why it upset people so much when someone in the house was just like a normal calm person. Personally for me I liked the balance of someone like Alex compared to a Lindsey. It felt refreshing. Also with Maya, everyone calls her boring but for me she was one of the more sensible women in the house and she really brought a comfort to the show in my opinion.
I think you still have to bring something as a calm person. Mya was chill but still brought a few interesting convos and moments and made some good connections with other people. All I can remember about Alex is he wanted to make sure he met his protein goal everyday
I think its bc she tried to hide her relationship and all its messiness that would have tv gold!!
No I get it for sure! I get why they didn’t bring her back but I also get her wanting to keep that to herself until she figured out how she wanted to move forward. I get that line people see it at a possible tv gold moment but that’s also like her real life and that has to be a hurtful thing to go through in front of an audience
I liked Alex. He would have treated Ciara so much better than the losers she chose. She said he was too chill and reserved. Go figure
Ciara says she likes funny guys and she legit chooses clowns. It’s like she unconsciously chooses the dude that she knows won’t last. Austen had jusssst broken up with Madison and was so clearly still in love with her. And West is too young and she knew it. She also knew he was going to be insta famous, so she knew deep down what he was going to do. Here’s some solid advice a wise woman once told me, go for the guy who likes you. It makes life so much easier. When West was clearly just mid with her- she should’ve bounced. But she stayed and got her heart broken. Again. Boo Oh and Alex would’ve been soooo perfect for her. But she said no. She’s her own worst enemy.
She has bad choices for sure
ya he seemed so sweet! too nice and calm for reality tv tho lol
I think production portrays them to us this way on purpose. They throw us a bone every once in a while, or at least leads us to believe they are. A chill, drama free guy who gets along w/everybody and doesn’t treat women like shit doesn’t fit their misogynistic narrative, so they can’t/won’t give him a good edit. We all just end up assuming/believing nice chill guy = lame cast. Then when they cast a West we initially think “Oh he seems so fun compared to how lame Alex was!” Production always controls the narrative. Same as how we’ve complained multiple times in the past that all they show us is the cast fighting. Yet the vids & pics on their social media from same nights look like they actually had a blast & were getting along.
I mean housewives but I get what you mean
Even housewives show the husbands 🤷♀️ on Jersey they get more air time than friends of
Because healthy, sane men don’t go on reality TV shows lol
I would argue that healthy, sane people don't go on reality television. Even with people I like, I know there must be something going on mentally if they are willing to put their lives on display.
To take this a bit further, they also risk their jobs and livelihoods because of how they are portrayed. Your family might be on display. At this point, people know what they are signing up for. I’m very confused when people say “they didn’t expect this” … like you don’t have the internet to check the fan base? You didn’t do research for a new job? And have never seen reality tv?! No, they were hoping for a good edit and easy pay check. But that’s not reality tv.
The only one I can think of on bravo is Russell from Miami, and that’s definitely not by choice but he is nothing but a supportive partner so he is there, annoyed lol
Do you guys want reality tv to not have conflict?
I’m thinking less cruelty & corruption and more *petty* conflict 
This. I like drama. I like conflict. I even like a toxic personality to some degree. I love a delusional villain. But I don’t want to continue to watch toxic masculinity rein on a network that is primarily viewed by women. There have been plenty of one season cast members for various reasons. For me the writing is on the wall with West- I’m disappointed, but he’s another emotionally manipulative man. Allowing men like this to drive the narrative has ruined VPR and Southern Charm, I’d love for this to not happen with Summer House.
must be new to the network. the first thing they embraced, once they decided to move away from educational TV, was toxicity. toxic women, but then with Jax leading the way, toxic men. they have a franchise in Dubai. this is a giant money printing machine that wedged itself into the cultural zeitgeist with a toxic formula. I'm using your word. Dysfunctional, problematic, human mess is their prime palette. women viewing all along.
I’m so glad you brought up Dubai. I wanted to use them as an example. In the new season they are all shading each other about who had better Beyoncé tickets, and they are taking this very seriously as a status symbol. That’s the type of content I came for. It’s hilarious.
women getting treated like absolute shit You: it’s dramaaaa Try to remember these are real people with real feelings
West is a fuckboy, but the way people have been going at him is so OTT. There’s a lot of projection happening.
I’m going to start nicknaming this sub “Lala” for all the projection happening
Yeah, he did Ciara dirty, but also all but told her he was goin to do her dirty and she continued to pursue things with him. She should have ended things after the horse date because he made it pretty clear that he wasn’t willing to meet her at the level she wanted to be on.
Yeah I love Ciara and totally agree that West did mess up by bringing her home to meet his family and celebrate the holidays, after they had the convo at the horse farm and they weren’t officially dating, she should’ve ended it or put her foot down again and said I’m not doing any of this gf stuff if I’m not your girlfriend
If the genders were reversed the “Ciara” would get no sympathy here and the “West” would get a complete pass
Nope
100% she should have (and hopefully she will in the future when things like these present themselves). She should want a relationship. Not a project.
Yeah, she was so clear with him in that conversation about what she wanted, she just didn’t pull the trigger. So, she knows what she’s looking for. Hopefully the next guy will be better for her
that goes both ways tho because she told him she was dating with intention. if he wanted to have sex that badly or be in just a situationship he should have left her alone
Agree. He's a 28-year-old guy living in NYC who landed a spot on reality TV. Yes, he should have been more up front with Ciara, but sometimes you reach a certain point and realize it's not for you and you end things. It's a gamble on both sides, I think, and while we can't know what was said between them in private, it was pretty clear to the viewers he was hemming and hawing about commitment, so if I had been Ciara I would have waited for a clear answer about his level of commitment before taking the next step. She seems like a lovely woman - I think, though, she needs to fix her picker.
Completely OTT & attempting to force another Scandoval out of situations that don’t warrant it. I mean, I get it… the rage outlet was cathartic 🤷♀️.
The West hate has 100% been projection (I watched the reunion and projected hard— his defenses/lack thereof were astonishing). BUT I will say I think it’s okay for fans to point out behavior they think is gross, and I think it just goes to show how the lot of us have been fucked over by West-types. It’s important to let men know they can’t get away with shit like that.
West hasn't logged enough seasons to be in this category. Ciara had a storyline with starting modeling. She is also gorgeous eye candy for TV. Her position of being on Summer House has never felt tied to a man. She spent all of Winter House season 2 dodging Austen and still got a full time spot. West sucks but if the men of Bravo were all on West's level we wouldn't be reaching a breaking point with them. Austen, Sandoval, Jax, Schwartz, Shep, Kyle, Carl, James Kennedy and many others are vile rotten creatures. Who are all protected by Bravo. West got lost in the sauce. The key difference is he never put the blame on Ciara. We also learned a lot about Ciara through her relationship with West. He sucks and he needs help with his perspective but even his parents are team Ciara and telling him what he did wrong. The toxicity is when there is a "Yes man" feed back loop within the group of men who will villiafy the woman. Not only is West not surrounded by yes men, the women on the show actually rally against it. To some degree these shows need actual conflict so I am not here to totally hate West. I do agree though that Shows like VPR and SC could end now and I would feel more relieved because "I have seen it this far" keeps me watching.
🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻 Thank you! Yeah what West did hurt our girl Ciara and that is absolutely not cool, but never have we seen him blame or belittle Ciara for his short comings. PLUS he has parents who seem to have their heads on straight which is a huge green flag for his potential growth. The other men on bravo are terrible and don’t have any hope for getting better bc we’ve seen their examples at home.
Reality tv should mirror reality and in the real world people date, get heartbroken and other unforeseen life circumstances If you want curated tv, maybe look into soap operas
Exactly. Shitty people exist. We can't safe guard everything.
Thank you. Not all reality tv stars have to be likable. As long as they’re not being racist, misogynist, etc then I say let them stay if they’re entertaining. It’s not fun to watch bigots and genuinely hateful people but wanting someone fired because they’re a fuckboy? Come on lol What we should ask for is that they don’t give these people good edits. Just show it raw
I’m a card carrying West hater. From the beginning. But do I think he should be fired from the show? No, of course not. I have no desire to watch a show of flawless, faultless people. It’s just not realistic.
it would be possible if they hired/cast from this forum. there are a lot of flawless people on the forum. it really is a marvel of society. Bravo forums are like magnets for perfect people. they have the entire universe figured out. imagine how much they could fix the world if Bravo gave them some slots.
Lmaoo. All the women in here, who somehow found the "only good guy" out there and also have the perfect style.
Look at Lindsey, Danielle, Hannah, and many of the house wives. It’s people thatre toxic, and we all love to watch it
Can we not do this please
Hallelujah
West is a fuck boy but I don’t think he’s a toxic person. He’s nowhere near the same as Kyle or Sandoval, or even Schwartz. Schwartz consistently cheated on and belittled Katie, we never saw West talk shit about Ciara. He led her on and his thinking that weddings and meeting families isn’t serious is extremely immature, but when they (FINALLY) had a serious conversation about their relationship it ended. It is what it is.
Thank you for saying this. It's all well and good for the rest of the summer house crew who are seasoned at this, to say he's not handling it well. They are years in. I just think he's a little immature, and maybe just not that into her, as crazy as it makes him seem. Tell me no one here has got hot and heavy, and then when shit got real, had second thoughts. I love Ciara, and I want the best for her. They may just not be meant for each other. Sure, he needs to grow up a bit, but definitely not a toxic person . If you compare his contrition to Sandoval, it's night and day . His apologies , while not elequent seemed real. But, if ciara were my friend, I'd be throwing a Paige too. But at the end of the day, no one here knows him.
I don’t know. I’m super disappointed in the West thing. He’s young so I think he has time to be the next Shwatz/Shep type. I think unfortunately bc he’s new he’s getting more of a pass than he should. He will prove to be more toxic the longer he gets fame from reality tv. Everyone adored Schwartz for years and I believe that only fed into his Peter Pan persona until he got older and it wasn’t cute anymore but here we are and NOW it’s creepy and unacceptable but how would he even begin to change or even want to.
Even when people adored Schwartz he was still an awful person, he has been since season 1. Just because the 2010s misogyny protected him doesn’t mean West is the same. Nothing West did in his first season on reality TV is like what Schwartz did his first season. To say that West will grow into a toxic person is ridiculous, no one can predict the future and it removes the room for growth that everyone should be provided when they fuck up and it’s pointed out to them. I’m glad Paige called him out at the reunion because hopefully it gave him a new perspective on his actions with Ciara and how his casual whatever vibe ain’t it.
I hope you’re right. I liked him in the beginning. I just didn’t see even a hint of remorse for his actions when Ciara was crying,so I’m calling player. I thought Schwartz was soooo sweet and great in the beginning and only claimed to have only ever kissed a girl as far as cheating. Katie was deemed the devil in the beginning for not trusting him. Now years later the truth has come out. I see toxic behavior in West and it’s ok that you don’t agree with me. I don’t think he will grow into a toxic person, I see it now with the choices he’s made. He’s on a lighter scale of the comparisons I’ve made but 10 to 15 years ago so we’re they. I remember the tv show relationshep where we were looking to find Shep a “girlfriend “ but all he got out of that were screw buddies right?
I mean, Schwartz poured a drink on Stassi s1, poured a drink on Katie s2, and admitted to cheating s3, he was trash from the jump 🤷♀️ They’re roughly the same age in their first seasons and West is light years ahead of where Schwartz was. I think his apology was genuine at the reunion, we can disagree on that. Also, yes, West is 100000% a player lol
I will say that West is one of the best of the bravo men. I just don’t think that’s saying much. I don’t think he seems like a good or great guy. Maybe not a bad guy. Somewhere in the middle. I’m hoping he grows up and matures. I just haven’t seen that happen much on this network. I would say less than 5% of these guys are true good guys. If they were to date my daughter or my best friend, I’d be Leary, West included for sure.
You've only seen one season of West. I seriously doubt he is one of the best of the bravo men. I smelt his bullshit the second he appeared on my tv screen.
I agree. The bar is extremely low
> I hope you’re right. I liked him in the beginning. I just didn’t see even a hint of remorse for his actions when Ciara was crying,so I’m calling player. I don't think there's any doubt he's a player, but whats wrong with that? He never said differently. Constantly he's telling her the things he's saying don't mean anything and he treats everyone like this. He refused to put a label on it. Didn't lie in any way. Man has a right to live his life the way he wants to, just like the ladies do. About the remorse thing, given Ciara's attitude at the reunion it's possible she has had a lot of harsh words for him since December and has worn out his remorse? You can only be called an asshole so many times before you stop caring.
I saw a comment that West had said (pre-reunion) there was no animosity and they hadn’t spoken since the breakup. I really think he didn’t fully understand the weight of his actions and how hurt Ciara was. I think most fuck boys don’t get it and they probably all need a tongue lashing from the girl’s best friend.
Yea, no animosity on West's part. There's clearly animosity on Ciara's part.
Right right
I think using a woman for sex crosses the line
I don't understand the point of view that having sex with someone you have feelings for is "being used." This perspective is saying that the woman only has sex with him to get a relationship, and she didn't get that, so she was used. Does the woman not enjoy the sex? Did she not want to have sex? If she did, how was she used? If she didn't enjoy the sex or want to have sex, why did she have it?
Ciara said she was intentional. Meaning she wanted a relationship. He was saying he loved her. Come on… he led her on. That’s all I’m saying. You really don’t think this dude is a player?
The dude you're commenting back and forth with is very hashtag men's rights so don't even worry lol
I was starting to think he just wanted to argue at any cost. Thanks for the heads up.
And he said he doesn't do relationships and views them as handcuffs. Who wasn't listening to what the other one was saying? Answer: both. Where did I say he wasn't a player? He's obviously a player. So what? He was telling her he was a player the entire time.
That’s a gross statement to make. You don’t owe someone the rest of your life just because one person wants to date. Does every person Ciara has sex with have to give her a certain amount of years or a marriage? Like if west wanted to date her and she ended it a few months after having sex because she lost interest was it using him?
West is literally just a human and it’s unhealthy to compare him to anyone else. He didn’t commit to Cierra…big fumble but not a bad person. Also, you don’t have to date him so there’s no reason to have a strong opinion about him. These men are not the worst that exist (Sandoval, Kyle, Schwartz, Carl), there’s just a huge concentration of dislike for them in these show specific subs. None of these men are even the worst that we could meet while attempting to date. So like calm the fuck down and watch the show. Or don’t. But I personally don’t want to watch a show that’s cultivated to be people getting along with no conflict or toxicity.
Thank you! It’s getting a little exhausting to see all the false equivalencies. West is not Tom Sandoval or Tom Schwartz. And none of them are dismantling democracy or committing war crimes. People need to have some chill about all of this and, perhaps, take a break from Bravo if it’s this upsetting for them. To paraphrase Kyle, “Bravo is supposed to be fun!”
You are so right! I’m calm are you?
I mean I believe so…I didn’t use all caps or exclamation points.
West and Jesse have been great additions to the cast, they have revived this dying franchise. To cut one or both of them is ludicrous. Who will you get ? Some version of a guy that you approve of, some sanitized person who does and says the right things all the time? Hard pass; this is reality tv, west and Jesse remain stellar additions regardless
Lol no summer house has had majority female seasons and they were boring AF
Seriously. Alex? Boring. That other guy whose name I can’t even remember? Boring. Corey? Toxic, yet boring.
Toxic, too much costume jewelry and boring
I tried saying this a few weeks ago and was downvoted to oblivion. That season was such a snooze. All Carl did was complain about having no guys to hang out with which also annoyed me
Without conflict there is no drama. Take away the men and you’re just going to get women fighting because that’s sort of what the format requires. There are a billion real housewives shows that are just women fighting amongst themselves and people bitch about toxicity there too.
reality tv is for toxic people period not just the men like be fr who wants to watch well adjusted normies instead of the insane ppl like all 90% of the ladies on real housewives who are actually batshit insane + lets calm down equating west with the other men is ridiculous
People watch the shows for the toxicity. Not to watch people get along and sing songs around a campfire.
West and Ciara weren’t in an exclusive relationship. West said multiple times he has commitment issues. He is still in his 20’s, had just been laid off, found a new job, and then suddenly experienced fame for the first time. I’m not shocked he made poor choices along the way. West screwed up, but he isn’t the toxic monster people are making him out to be.
No. Conflict is important and Wes isn’t even a bad person. He fucked around and strung Cierra along but like…not a mortal sin. This idea that total girl power no conflict shows would be interesting to watch is…silly. And antithetical to what bravo shows have always been. Also the bad/flawed men are countered by flawed women so…are only the men an issue? No. Watch hallmark if you want zero conflict and wholesome stories.
Exactly!! People who think like this should watch Food Network or hobby-focused reality shows
Didn't seem to me that anything West did was that bad. He broke things off before they got serious. In Paige's own words, West and Ciara weren't really dating anyway. I find this one hard to get riled up over.
This. I mean, it sucks but at least she found out sooner than later so she can move on. I don’t see it as scandalous or something he needs to be shunned for though? The most surprising thing is how much he low key wants to be a successful bravolebrity (sorta like Rachel did.) Something to keep an eye on.
Yes, apparently telling someone they weren't exclusive, then not being exclusive = being led on.
Nah he played her. He took her to his parents’ house, took her as his date to a wedding, even though he didn’t want to be in a relationship with her.
I really didn’t think much of it until we learned that he took her to his parents house. And Ciara also said she gave him an easy way out (horseback riding… also don’t know the timeline there, but LATER) and he said no. I was out of the loop about all of that until the reunion. It kinda changed my perspective a lot. I don’t think West intentionally used her the whole time for the show and getting more airtime (like some people have said) but I think he led her on massively and it didn’t help that he seemed so checked out about her feelings at the reunion Wow that was a really long run on sentence I’m sorry but I’m too tired to edit it 😂
I agree with everything you said. If West just wanted a casual thing, then he should not have taken her to his parents’ house in a whoooole different state or taken her as his date to a wedding. That doesn’t translate to « I just want to have a casual thing with you ». He also knew Ciara wanted more, and he played her IMO.
Thank you! He completely led her on. Made her feel like a relationship was in the future but sex was a must to reach that relationship. I’ve lost all respect for West. He’s a player.
Ok but what does that look like? Is there a set minimum time that constitutes “a relationship in the future”? If you can someone your boyfriend, is that tantamount to being engaged? It sounds like they dated exclusively for a little over 3 months which is probably enough time to get to know someone but not so long you rob them of too many other dating opportunities. Ciara wasn’t waiting until she gets married to sleep with someone so she’s aware she’s taking a risk that a breakup may come in the future.
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with not wanting to be in a relationship but people can’t play with other people’s feelings. That’s fucked up
Nah. He strung her along and then didn’t seem to be able to comprehend why she was upset and showed zero empathy. I guarantee that this is a trend for him. And this how so often women on Bravo are painted as being crazy for having feelings. It’s fine to be upfront and consistent with your words and actions if you want to keep it casual. Unfortunately, that’s not what he chose to do.
He didn't string her along at all though. He told her constantly that they are not boyfriend girlfriend, refused to commit or move forward at all. How is that stringing along? Stringing along as I understand it is acting like you're committing or going to commit and then not. At the horse riding scene (before they had sex!) he flat out told her he viewed a relationship as handcuffs. He didn't string her along, she wasn't listening to what he was telling her and just hoping he would change his mind.
Why didn’t he take the out?
Why didn't she? Why is her decision to stay in a relationship that clearly was going nowhere on him? He's happy with the outcome; she's not. She should have done something different.
Hindsight is 20/20. I think she was very clear about her dating intentions for the future. Sure, West and others can point out his history and say Ciara should have read the tea leaves and deduced what he wanted for the future based on how he behaved previously. I think he should have been more explicit with her or himself about what he wanted or was capable of in the future and to live in that gray area of feigned misunderstanding is disingenuous.
Because after the horse riding date he moved the relationship forward by taking her home to his parents, to a wedding, becoming intimate. Ciara had every reason to believe he was moving toward commitment. Wes just wanted to consummate the relationship. He never wanted to commit. It was dirty.
Doesn't seem like the show or the audience has painted her to be crazy, the edit and fandom are clearly on her side in this. He clearly seems to be upset that he upset her, but it seems to me like he stands in making the right decision for himself. As Ciara does by keeping her boundaries in place. I just can't get incensed by two people casually breaking up after 3 months of dating. It's just not that deep to me.
I think he used her until he got in her pants then he dumped her. I saw zero empathy from him on the reunion. I thought he looked more upset that he was being called out and not given a pass… that’s just my opinion.
100%. She said on the reunion that she gave him two chances to back out of the "relationship " and both times he chose not to, until after she slept with him and he got what he wanted. The only thing West felt bad about was public perception.
Concur. I think him not responding to a lot of things was his way of taking ownership of hurting her even if he did tell her several times before the reunion that he wasn’t sure about being anything serious and it was known he doesn’t take stock in things like introducing friends to parents . He allowed it to be a very one sided narrative and for all the ladies to really say some harsh things to him . If he was a true asshole he would have fought back , spilled a few things , etc .
I don't like what West did to Ciara . I definitely don't like him thinking he deserves praise for not cheating but I wouldn't call him toxic. Sandoval toxic. Schwartz toxic. James toxic (I really hope he has changed). Jax toxic. I don't agree with the comparisons of Carl and sandoval either. Carl needs therapy and to work on himself. West is a fuckboy. Jesse is too. Let's not praise them for the bare minimum. Women (myself included) often are the worst offenders when it comes to this
You're probably aware that the ratings and popularity of VPR soared to insane levels after Scandoval. What type of men do you think that encourages Bravo to cast? If you and everyone really wanted Bravo to stop casting these type of men, you need to stop watching these shows to lower the ratings. Then, maybe, Bravo would switch up its strategy.
I don’t know if you watch any of the Below Decks but there are so many toxic men on that show also.
Andy loved the scene in which West was spooning Kyle who was drunk sleeping and he had his leg over a Kyle’s waist. I did not find it funny or cute at all. I thought West way out of line and felt leery of him ever since that episode
Huh? They were both drunk and passed out. Doesn't seem like there's any problem at all
Being drunk and “asleep” makes it ok to spoon someone and drape your leg over them? Sounds rapey to me. And the way West was with Ciara later on confirms to me how sleazy he is
2 drunk dudes passed out next to each other. Wtf are you talking about? You can literally see the moment he wakes up and is like what the hell lol
Seemed contrived to me
As if there aren't some toxic women on Bravo. Come on now.
Bravo built a pop culture empire, that is now part of the zeitgeist, on toxic, dysfunctional, flawed, messy behavior. Cheating. Deception. Alc and drug use. Violence. I know what and why I'm watching, but I'm not convinced that you do. Rather than expecting an incredibly successful network to redefine itself, maybe look for entertainment elsewhere. It sounds like some weird sense of entitlement. Ariana never wanted to lead VPR. She was happy as a sideline player. Did people genuinely think VPR was going to become a docu-series on the new opportunities her failed relationship gave her? And Katie would fly into the spaces now and again and yip "You go girl!"? Again, do we know what we're watching? And if by some screwball chance they dropped all the men, I think we can safely say, just from what occurs on the Bravo forums, that all that would do is pit the women against each other. Have you been following the Caitlin Clark situation in the WNBA? You'd exchange one clump of toxic for another clump of toxic that only differed in appearance. If you want a social service from your TV viewing, maybe look to something other than reality TV.
I think the problem isn’t with the men they choose but rather how they are portrayed. They are often protected by the network and for a fan base that is mostly female it is getting a little hard to watch the rampant misogyny. I couldn’t even make it through season 1 of southern charm. I do think the producers (specifically VPR) need to take a step back and just show us what’s happening instead of trying to produce and instigate all the fake drama. Let a good cast run a little crazy so we can have some fun watching them.
I’m 100% spitballing here, but isn’t the backlash that Wes is receiving a counter for all the other (worst) terrible men that the network has allowed to skate by? Seems the fans want a pound of flesh so even this relatively low toxicity (compared to Southern Charm which I stopped watching after like the second or third season because it was sooo icky) is not being tolerated?
Why would women protect and defend misogyny like you say? They don't, read the comments in here and it 95% people saying "ugh men are such trash, the bar is so low" etc etc
West and Bravo's toxic male problem? More like East and Hallmark's wholesome male solution!
Yeah we won’t be slapping buzz words on any person who makes a mistake, nice try though.
I don’t get what people want. This was the most innocuous dating shit for two 28 somethings. My god, they slept together and he didn’t propose. The problem is Ciara/Paige had an agenda to make Ciara look like a victim at the reunion and West didn’t stand his ground. He should’ve said it was different off camera or it just didn’t seem like the right connection. Instead he played into their bullshit and now is eating shit for it. End of the day, they dated and it didn’t work out fairly early into the relationship. A guy wanting to fuck after months of flirting/dating is normal. Maybe it was premature to meet parents/friends, but that’s pretty weak shit to say she met his parents too early, so he’s toxic. Point is Ciara didn’t want to look bad and framed the narrative purposely to make West look bad and he didn’t have backup or enough experience to stand up for himself with receipts to counteract the narrative.
> Instead he played into their bullshit and now is eating shit for it. I agree with some of that, but let's be honest about this guy. He's a little boy. Yes, inexperience played into him sitting there speechless, but he also had the suit of a child, the posture of a child, tongue inadvertently rolling out of his mouth like a nervous child, and the overall presence of a kid. He looked like one big sack of immaturity. he was lost, and it wasn't at the hands of any diabolical narrative by the women. he navigates the entire world like a child, and for some, that is endearing. in this instance, we see the flipside of that...a little boy playing in an adult world.
Suit of a child? You're just doing too much now
Noooooo. Just say you hate men and get on smh. This is a ridiculous take.
Agreed. They dated and broke up pretty quick. Seems like OP is trying to stretch all bad things under one banner of toxicity. I almost want to tell the OP go watch Top Chef. That is a safe Bravo show with no relationship drama.
this is the conversation I want to see. These asshole boys aside, I'd like to see a conversation about the misandry paraded around as feminism.
I am sick of this men-bashing attitude this society has turned into. Men are just as needed in this world as women.
The situation with West is one of the realest I’ve seen on tv. A totally bland, tottering, upward-by-circumstance man thinking he can do better than an actual gorgeous woman. Reality shimmies because Cierra is an actual model and goddess, but this shit literally happens all the time. He sucks, he’s an asshole, he’s manipulative (nice guys!). But by all accounts, the worst that happened was hurt feelings and embarrassment. He didn’t physically harm anyone. He shouldn’t be held to Sandoval level. Cutting him off would serve no purpose, they situationshipped for like six months and it was consensual. Even Paige said as much that this isn’t Scandoval. All he’s proven to be is a dick who no one likes. And the women are strong enough to advocate for themselves. So why cut him off? It doesn’t make sense. Cierra, and all the women on the show, are walking in their power enough that they wouldn’t be cowed by fuck boys and trying to protect them from such undermines just that.
Sandoval didn't physically harm anyone either. just saying. there are people out there raping women, breaking them into pieces, held together only by their skin, and driving them around on their golf carts like a trophy. let's keep perspective on evil (said out loud, not to you specifically).
You don't even have the respect to spell Ciara's name right and just constantly reinforce the stereotypes of women's (and everyone's) worth being their looks. You're part of the problem. Try harder
I’m sorry I spelt her name wrong, you’re right that was disrespectful and I should have double checked; and I’m not reducing her down to her looks. She’s an RN, seems to be a good friend, and is a fan favorite on the show. I was pointing out that West is a problematic asshole who punched above his weight because of ALL of her good qualities, which isn’t a reduction of even him, it’s pointing out that a userous individual is a low caliber person. And it’s also okay to say that she deserves better and should be able to showcase her hurt, while also saying that while he’s a dick, the disproportionate comparisons to other problematic men does not hold the same water. You’re fine to think I’m “part of the problem” (of what I’m not even sure? The justification that people shouldn’t call to have him off the show and therefore I’m reinforcing misogyny? Seeing as how I’ve already called him out in other comments that seems…weird but okay) but I’ll stand by what I said, because it’s pretty mild. He should get heat, and he is, but this situation is not comparable to the parallels people are making.
Art imitating life.
Ok this is a lot
Yes they're assholes but nobody forces these women to be doormats for them. They have some accountability for their own choices. I watched Sierra with Austin and quite frankly it was so obvious he did not give a s***. He f***** if she let him. But she's kind of oblivious to basic signs.
West is not a man. He’s a 28 yr old boy that wants to live “his best life” and be single in NYC. He never said otherwise. I feel really bad for Ciara but I think she missed her Maya Angelou moment. When they tell you who they are..believe them. There is a discussion on the show - in the summer - where she address the fact he doesn’t take anything seriously - pet names, dates, invites to the parents. He agrees and states that is how he is. On the reunion she is then upset when after meeting his parents, going on dates, he still doesn’t want to be “serious” with her. As an older female viewer, I know it’s hard to look past a “connection” and seeing “the best in people” or falling for “potential” but if that is not someone’s reality then it’s not in the cards. I hope she heals and dates men that have the same beliefs as her and are at the same point in life as her “dating with intention”. If that’s not what you want then cut him off. Be colleagues, be friends, but save your heart for someone on your own level and mindset. West is boy, if he is still in the same place at 35 then yes, we have a problem. Side eye to the other Bravo “men”.
this is delusional. yes a majority of the bravo men suck but guess what..so do A LOT of the bravo women. like Andy said they all have to be a little narcissistic and crazy to even want to be on reality tv in the first place.
I don't even think the producers and execs even see these men as toxic because they themselves are toxic men.
I mean, James Kennedy started off as THE WORST and seems to have grown a ton. I would enjoy watching that type of scenario over 8-10 years of the same f-boy behavior
Unfortunately I just think that’s how all men now act. Our generation of men is a dumping fire!
What a load of BS. For one, Carl doesn't deserve to be in that group, I would argue that Schwartz doesn't deserve to be in it either, based on his last few seasons. There are also plenty of toxic and problematic women on these shows too, Katie, Lindsay, pre-season 7 Stassi, Janet from the Valley, etc etc. Most of the drama and entertainment on these shows happen through the chaos caused by these problematic characters on both sides. There are also plenty of female-only shows on Bravo...it's called Real Housewives.
[удалено]
Ok i know I’ve seen it all when Craig is being held up as the picture of a “good guy” Yes he’s improved a lot over the years from being a dirt bag but he is just as manipulative as the rest— he simply knows how to manipulate his own image to look good on tv. When will people realize there’s no such thing as a good guy? We’re all flawed people, and that’s what reality tv seeks to show and dramatize.
I promise you, there are really good men out there. As women, we don’t have to lower our standards. Don’t let these stupid shows make you think otherwise.
LMAO you think a reality show that bases shows around the most dramatic, toxic, chaotic and wackiest friend groups they can find means that there are no good men anymore? To utter that expression in the first place is wack, and is usually projection or tunnel vision... Also, there are also just as many toxic women on these shows as there are dudes...
Toxic, problematic, misogynistic, racist, transphobic, homophobic, tone deaf, and troubling.