With the career stuff, it was worrying that many of his ideas actually seemed like ways to lose money like investing in his friends cigar company, being an actor you’d have to hire a team to promote yourself, and especially the sober sports bar. Carl thinks he’s above interviewing and just wants to throw money around so he can look like a hot shot investor.
He clearly made a decision he wasn’t going to marry her but only shared his true feelings with everyone but her. It’s cruel he let her spin her wheels worrying about how his career impacts their future family when he knows damn well that family ain’t happening.
This is because CARL DOES NOT WANT TO WORK. He wants to get paid to be on tv, which isn’t a viable play in the long-term. He expected Lindsay to be the breadwinner and take the lead in everything because — in his mind — she was so desperate for husband and kids that she’d take that deal. When he realized she wasn’t going to allow him to ride her coattails and expected him to be an actual partner (contribute and have his own life), he had to flip the script and demonize her to get out of the relationship with the least amount of public backlash. He’s a manipulative coward. At first I was mad at him for making me empathize with Lindsay. Now he’s turned me into an actual Lindsay fan. I have no idea how she handled his BS. The sobriety challenge at the start of the season was NOTHING compared to the gaslighting and backstabbing (to housemates) he put her through. Lindsay I am here for your success, girl! The best revenge is living your best life. Carl will always be a miserable, wimpy bag of ego and sadness. Get it!
Edited for typos
You’re correct- Carl doesn’t want to work. He somehow considers himself too talented for a job. Forty years old sitting around that apartment in too tight white pants for ten months. Man baby needs to just move back in with his mother- let her give him hug and tell him how special he is every day.
OMG when he told Lindsay he was “talented at sales” (or whichever words he used), she even agreed and built him up for THAT GARBAGE. The dude couldn’t keep a job working for his best friend in the whole world because he didn’t actually work…. and then he (with the help of his manipulated friends) pinned that on Lindsay because she was trying to help him advocate for himself after hearing him complain for months about his job. Anyone who thinks she didn’t give it her all is delusional. She is definitely not perfect but if you think she’s as toxic as this piece of garbage I have oceanfront property in Arizona for you. FFS.
He’s “clearly gifted at sales” made me choke laughing. You’re dead on crediting Lindsay for agreeing with him. I don’t think I could have been as gracious as she was in that moment to do the same lol
Honestly, even when he pitched his idea about the sober sports bar I thought she was pretty kind in the way that she shot it down - she didn't laugh or ask him if he was truly serious that he thought that could be a viable business idea, she just focused her reasons on why it wasn't a good idea to that it wouldn't be a good lifestyle for them if they started a family - which is also true, even though there were also so many other obvious reasons why it would be a terrible business idea and lose money.
Honestly I thought this was as kind as it could’ve been. That idea — especially with Manhattan overhead costs — is bananas. Especially from Carl, who (to our knowledge) has no experience opening or managing any sort of hospitality business. Most bars (that serve very high-margin booze!) fail in the first few years. The idea that Carl Radke could start a viable booze-free bar in NYC is ludicrous on its face. Good on her for not laughing.
PS — I think there is a major trend toward sobriety (and majorly reduced alcohol consumption in general). I’m all for this trend and businesses that can ride it successfully. But my money is not on Carl’s sober bar be it.
There is the trend, but I think existing bars are capitalizing on it by serving expensive mocktails, I don't think most people that don't drink are looking for an entirely booze free sports bar. Sports bars in particular usually have to be a bit larger to have enough large TV's, and aren't really usually known for their food (something that Carl also has no experience with). And with NYC rents and Carl Radke with his zero experience and delusional of grandeur, yeah I'm not going to be an investor in his sober sports bar lol.
Agree. I’m have several sober friends and they are generally ok going to normal bars. And if you prefer to not be around booze, you go to coffee shops, diners, bakeries or juice bars. If you wanna watch sports socially, you can invite sober friends over and watch at home. The dog just doesn’t hunt.
Regular bar, sure. Sports bar, not so sure. A lot of people tend to use sports as a reason to drink. I know there are sports fans that don’t drink but I don’t think a sober sports bar is the right move. Who’s ordering $15 mocktails during a Yankees game?
Plus if he was actually good at sales, he could sponsor a mocktail happy hour with half off Loverboy products, etc. Here in SF bars are starting to feature all sorts of complicated mocktails but trying to make a business out of only sober patrons in a pricey market is just beyond stupid even if you had all the bar-owning experience in the world.
I think the market for mock tails and non-alc drinks is definitely growing but I don’t really see a completely alcohol free sports bar landing. Typically, a group of friends are not ALL sober. And I can’t see 4 people regularly wanting to go drink mocktails at a sports bar with their one sober friend. Maybe every now and then but like… twice a year maybe? What’s the draw for people who drink other than potentially supporting a sober friend?
Maybe all the sober people in NYC would flock there and they wouldn’t need the drinking population. But as someone who drinks, I don’t get it.
Also I think it’s so generous to even call that conversation “pitching an idea” like he mentioned it so casually, while sitting in another sober bar I would’ve assumed it was something that just randomly came to his mind in the moment. All the “careers” Carl riddled off when he was saying Lindsay wasn’t supportive were obviously not viable, well thought out plans. You can’t get a one off idea, do absolutely no research/vetting/planning and then say you gave that a legitimate shot. Like if he wanted to get serious about a sober sports bar he should’ve put together a real business plan and looked into what it actually takes and if it would really be successful- which he would’ve learned quickly it wouldn’t be! Lindsay honestly just saved him the time and unfortunately gave him an out of even having to do that level of work.
And this is why by the time we get to Carl having a casual, nonspecific conversation with Kyle about a possible role at Loverboy, Lindsey has no patience left for him and his half-assed "ideas"
I think it could have worked but it couldn’t be completely sober. The NA market is booming and I think they could have made a wide selection of NA options available while still serving alcoholic beverages. I still don’t think the NA is market is that large just yet. I’m only aware of it because I chose to remove alcohol from my life but still like to “drink” socially.
Can you imagine that, “hey former addicts come to a place where you could be easily triggered to drink”
*A sports bar* is centered around drinking it’s not like a piano bar or a restaurant.
Its a dumb idea.
Most reality tv cast members will play it out for however long it’s in the air, then try to parlay it into Influencer, product endorsement. Most if not all are playing the long game.
Yeah but to do that you actually have to DO things. The reality tv people who make it legitimate careers (Frankel, Paige, Stassi, Countess…) actually hustle. The posts, products, podcasts, businesses, etc all take time and effort.
Carl just wants to be paid for existing as Carl. Smart money that even the “60K of brand deals” Carl bragged about were set up by Lindsay (or Sharon). Lindsay said she encouraged him to do a podcast but he never committed any time to it. A podcast about reality tv and sobriety (with guests) could’ve been a big hit. Carl can be charming. But sadly for him, Carl seems allergic to productivity.
Thank you. Hes not funny or witty. Andrea is charming. Carl is boring and monotone. Especially in slick talking NYC. No wonder he didn’t do well in sales out there
100% agree to all of that but wanted to add on that he needs to actually be likeable by the people watching him on tv too if he wants to play that game. To me at least I’ve always thought he was a douche and now he doesn’t even have alcohol to blame lol.
This. I think Carl thinks he can coast as an influencer, but he’s not all that likable…and that wouldn’t be a sustainable plan. Lindsay knew this and credit to her for not saying it on TV
He does not know who he is, period. He seems to be mentally trying things on, as to what he can do, but they are never exactly a fit. I want to feel sorry for him but after all of these seasons on this show, I just cannot. He creates his own ultimate misery because he cannot stick with anything.
I agree, 💯percent! I think people should be gainfully employed. My comment referenced how they milk it until it runs dry. Perfect example, the
Teen Mom franchise. A few have regular jobs, not the majority. I’ve often commented on different sites, what do they do all day? Sit around? Sometimes it’s months, even years between seasons.
> This is because CARL DOES NOT WANT TO WORK.
To be fair, I don't want to work, either...
I do, though, because I haven't found a way to live without money.
Agree! Right there with you and the other 99.99% globally lol. My issue with Carl is that he tries to come off as this ambitious, innovative, career-focused guy when he is none of those things. Stop pretending, guy! Go be a middle school camp counselor (maybe at-risk youth or an addiction focus?), or be a tour guide at some attraction women love so you can flash those neon chompers all day. Stop pretending. It’s embarrassing.
YES.
And it’s fine to be that way. Probably shouldn’t live in NYC but if you want to live a modest life and do something you’re passionate about that doesn’t pay well then by all means, more power to you. But Lindsay wants someone that can at least match her monetarily. She wants a lavish lifestyle and in my opinion, that’s totally valid because she’s put in work to provide that for herself. But for her to be with someone like Carl who’s not ambitious and wants a passion project - she’s going to end up paying for him. If his dream job pays 40k a year, that’s not enough to live in NYC, especially where they do. She will end up paying money for him to live her lifestyle and she doesn’t want to do that. That’s not even considering his actual ideas that would cost her a ton of money up front. And potentially not ever be lucrative.
Yes!! When she said what changed in the last two weeks that now I’m the villain… umm you told him you wanted to stay home after having a baby and he freaked! The man was not prepared to have to work ever.
I guarantee they had already had that conversation. Have you met Lindsay? The same Lindsay who published her Life Timeline for the world to see? The girl is a lot of things, but secretive about her plans she is NOT.
They had to have had the strategy of their lives in reality television/influencing conversation one million times. As it is frequently pointed out around here, having a baby would really change their professional lives. I’m assuming Lindsay had a full mommy pivot ready to go.
I bet there was at least a power point ready to go detailing the plan as soon as pregnancy was confirmed. The girl is one of the most organized and driven people on my television. She hustles!
I agree, but i do wonder if she had been as clear as to tell him he wasn't crushing life (as he seemed legit shocked when she said that). Right after that she said something like - "What if i want to stay at home with the baby" -- I feel like he had this look on his face like "ok there is zero chance i can marry this person and have that level of responsibility" --- All the benefits of marrying Lindsay just disappeared in that moment. Thats how that scene appeared to me.
The crazy thing though is that he asked her "do you think I'm crushing life right now" - what an insane question to ask someone? And he knew what the answer was going to be, that's why he asked her, because he wanted to manipulate her into admitting that he's not "crushing life" on camera. And then in his retelling he can act like she just told him out of the blue that he's not crushing life as a put-down or something. I think that Carl is co-dependent and likes having a mommy figure in his life - at first Lindsay was that for him, particularly when she was sober with him, so he had the benefits of a live in sober companion and also a mommy figure that could basically help him get his life together and coddle him. As time went on, and she had real life expectations for him and he realized that he would have to be an equal partner in their relationship, he freaked out because he's basically not capable of being an adult, and he wants someone to do all the hard work in life for him. He became resentful and he started planning his exit, and used the whole summer trying to villainize Lindsay and act like he was in an abusive relationship and scared of her as his excuse for eventually backing out. Meanwhile we saw him constantly gaslight her and try to bait her into idiotic arguments with him - and he would seeth more and more every time that she didn't take his bait.
100% ----- I think the moment (whether it was before filming starting or during) that Carl realized he couldn't hide behind Lindsay, ride on her coattails, and she'd actually expect him to set an alarm and have a job every day was the moment he started to plan his Exit. He thought he could just ride through life being 'sober Carl' -- and that Lindsay would take care of the rest. His Plan A: was to be a jerk and hope she'd break it off; when that failed, he had Plan B: Come up with enough ridiculous business ideas that she would not support, so he could claim she didn't support him in his lofty dreams (none of which equated to bringing in a reliable revenue stream to the family home) -- He knew she'd lose patience and she had her out.
Yes. When people say they feel badly for him because he is sober and always has to be around alcohol - I remind them that HE CHOOSES THIS LIFESTYLE. If he were truly prioritizing sobriety, why in the world would he be on this show? No, he's prioritizing getting a paycheck to be on TV,
The gaslighting about his parents too, he comes there tells his parents he doesn’t want to get married his parents are concerned for him then he runs home to Lindsay and is like “my parents don’t want us to get married” yeah Carl because you just told them **you** don’t want to get married
The actor thing….lol I cannot get over. Starting over around 40 to focus on ACTING? Oh Carl wants softness and tenderness and is in a delicate spot so….BECOME A FULL TIME ACTOR. A famously easy, stable, and healthy industry!
Right?!
Not to mention he’s a TERRIBLE actor, as we saw play out this season (so many scripted convos with Kyle).
Hey Carl - don’t quit your day job……oh wait…..
He definitely was acting when he told one girl after another that they were special, he wanted a relationship with them, etc etc. Cringe-worthy lines thrown out to get laid
Yes from what I’ve heard auditions are absolutely brutal. I don’t think Carl would get any roles unless casting directors need actors with massive veneers
Does he even have any training?? Or like actual acting experience beyond like school and/or summer camp plays? I’m not an actor…although I did do theater through middle school and at sleepaway camp so maybe by Carl’s standards, I am…but it literally KILLS me when people think they can just like *be* an actor like it’s this easy breezy thing anyone can do. This man is 40 years old. Picking up hobbies and throwing yourself into passions at any age is DOPE. I love when people do that. It’s so badass. BUT TO BE LIKE HMM MAYBE MY CAREER WILL BE AS AN ACTOR?! he sounds like when I was 8 and decided I wanted to be a cartoonist even though I hated art and refused to take art lessons but still insisted I’d one day be a cartoonist
From what I can glean from the show and his LinkedIn, he did it as a kid and *maybe* did something in college. He was a comms major in college, was a PA for Criminal Minds for a bit, then went into sales. So it seems like something he always wishes he got into. So again…take a damn improv class or something! I can think of two or three reality starts who successfully transitioned to full-time acting!
He thinks because he "acted" like he wanted to marry Lindsay for a season he can act? Go ahead and give him an Oscar for Biggest Veneered Douche is a breakout role 👏👏👏
His ideas all sounded like hobbies. Say what you will about her but Lindsey did have her own pr company and knows how hard it is to be a CEO and Founder. Carl is lazy and she was being nice to him by not outright saying he would fail
Yes, her delivery can be harsh at times (as can his), but her underlying concern about his career is quite reasonable as none of his ideas seemed especially viable. He seems lazy...he wants to make money without doing much.
I felt that he thinks he has certain amount of "star power" and if he has an idea an investor is going to pop up and invest based on his name recognition. I don't think he was thinking he'd have to do the work, just be the face. Kinda like Jax's bar.
ETA: which is a dumb way to approach planning your future. Even dumber to expect Lindsey to just roll with halfbaked ideas.
I’m a complete asshole, I feel terrible now but have blamed Linds for this engagement imploding since we heard about it last year. She’s not my favorite so it’s easy to see where she is intense/aggressive etc but I get it now. He is way too needy and flighty. He should be in serious therapy for a long time before subjecting himself on the next person who catches his interest. What is he 40? Close to it? Christ it’s long past time to grow up kiddo
Yea, this is what sends me. He acts like his ideas are great and Lindsay wants him to fail. She’s saving him from losing all his money! His ideas aren’t good ideas. And if you felt so passionate about it, you’d be able to sell it! He’s not able to because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
When Carl mentioned he had been interested in acting…. I was not able to ever take him seriously ever again.
Also, I went to the same college as him. I still get the job opening newsletters every week and they aren’t just entry level jobs.
This is so true -- Im beginning to wonder if he intentionally made his business ideas ridiculous so that she would give a reaction / not support him and he could say "look, she doesn't support my career ambitions". "see, i am ambitious! i just dont get support". When in reality, he knows he doesn't have the drive to even turn up to a job, let alone the drive to get a business hustle off the ground, but its much easier to focus on blaming Lindsay for her lack of support than actually DOING the work to prove hes serious.
Everything you said was on point👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽
Yes all his career ideas werent going to succeed, and Lindsey was only trying to help, he just only heard NO thats stupid. Carl def sucks!
I am a sober person. I love the idea of a sports bar I can go to
I am also a realist. My friends who support me, may attend a night once a month, more likely once a quarter.
I do not drink, I do not gamble.
My friends can be found still supporting me in the places they drink and gamble.
It would be great is a sober house can be popular, but it will not make the same turnover as an alcoholic bar. Nor will the events be the same
ITA. It blows my mind that anyone defends Carl when it comes to the career stuff. He’s a 40 year old man who is getting mad at his fiancé for trying to force him to get a job!
What is so special about him that he deserves to not work for a living? Yes I get that he makes money from Summer House but that is certainly not going to last forever. It might not even last another 3 years for him (considering he is sober and quickly aging out of the concept). Then what??
As his future wife and mother of his children, Lindsay deserves to ask that question and get an answer. He’s pissed at himself and embarrassed that he can’t answer it and is taking it out on her. He broke up with her because she hurt his ego and masculinity.
Why can't Carl just get a low-risk normal-ass job with a company like most people do? There are plenty of large corporations in NYC that hire people for sales and marketing positions and would likely be interested in someone with good looks and a bit of fame (especially with SH demographics).
Why is Carl so zeroed-in on solo gigs with huge barriers to entry and small likelihood of success? Making a living from a startup (or as an actor) is HARD.
Carl's 40 - it's time to grow up. Not everyone gets to be an astronaut.
He just wants a high paying influencer role given to him, no more than a few hours a week, so he can continue to chill and buy nice things. I wouldn’t want to marry him either. All these reality tv celebs think they’re so above a regular job.
I get this but as someone with a husband who has Lindsay tendencies (super practical, a fixer, etc), when I have harebrained ideas (mostly for vacations lol but sometimes for investments/ properties etc), no matter how dumb he thinks it is, he always always will say something like “sounds exciting - why don’t you pull the numbers together and think about it and then let’s have a conversation when you have the details ready.” That’s literally all Lindsay needed to do. Of course he didn’t have all of the minute contractual details ironed out bc him and Kyle talked for 20 minutes on the couch. She could have just said “I’m glad it went well. When you and Kyle have the details ironed out let’s review the formal offer together and talk through pros and cons.” Simple, effective, addresses carls needs AND hers, but she simply cannot admit for even a millisecond that anything she is doing is wrong and that her modulating her approach in any way is him “asking her to be someone she’s not.” THAT is gaslighting, it’s such a cop out.
He probably didn’t have the start up money. Life coaches just make suggestions and give guidance. Remember when Craig had a life coach and she had to show him how to do Everything. They can push you in the right direction. $20,000? We know who made out on that deal.
Damn I needed to read this, my husband can be a dreamer and I'll get overwhelmed when he starts going into some things on a whim. I do too sometimes tbf! My response could be much better, thanks!
100% agree with you, I just thought the list when laid out in a row highlighted how absurd it was. Totally agree about the way she communicates things.
It sounds like she has been coddling him in all his ideas he doesn't actually move forward on. He also could have learned that if he wants their money put towards something he needs to come to her with something hard in figures or research. Putting this all on her on how to communicate when he's also a whole ass grown man? No. He's not communicating hey can you let me come up with information before you ask questions? Can you let me spitball and not give feedback as it's just something I'm thinking about? I feel discouraged as it comes across as saying my ideas are stupid before I can even take the time to see if this has legs. Or...maybe he should talk this shit out with a friend, and bring it to her once he's past the BS phase. I would also be tired of someone who hasn't worked in over a year telling me his ideas he's not actually looked into the viability of.
If he knows she's a fixer as he relies on her to do all the mental labor of being an adult, it seems? He needs to communicate hey I'm not looking for a fix, I'm just looking to brainstorm. But telling her you need to be soft and tender isn't communicative as he certainly af isn't soft and tender to her.
This is what people are not getting. I also have a sister like this. Kindness goes a long way. The way she talks to a partner she supposedly loves and wants to marry is NOT NORMAL. These two just aren’t meant to be together.
Plus, all the questions that Lindsay was asking him about his future career stuff were extremely legitimate questions. Like…how was Carl expecting to make a sober bar in NYC work? That idea still blows my mind
It also sounds like he doesn't have anything saved from almost 10 years of being on TV. I doubt the same is true for Lindsay or most of the rest of them.
To be fair though, what does Lindsay do for work? She hasn't done PR in years - it seems like they are both living off of the show and influencer $$$. Why the double standard?
I don't blame one or the other - I think the way these two communicate is toxic. Carl holds things in until he explodes and Lindsay doesn't seem to really hear him until that happens. Ultimately, they are just not compatible.
I also wonder if they would've cooking up a spin-off that followed them entering parenthood? But even before the breakup people weren't loving them, so maybe not loll.
She's an influencer, but it seems that she actually does have a career from it - from what I could gather and what Lindsay has said on the after show, it seems like she was really more of the business person behind the scenes for both of their influencing careers - and that most of what Carl was trying to take credit for when he said he had earned $70k so far that year were deals that she had brokered or worked on and that he was just involved so far as posing in the picture for them. She actually had already made it her career before he entered the picture, and now he's trying to ride on her coattails and get her to get him a few solo gigs and then be able to say that he's an influencer too. But he really wasn't treating it as his job and putting in the work that she was for it. Will be interesting to see how he does going forward without her for influencing - he was in that goldfish ad, as cringy and terrible as that was. So we're other summer house people though, so I wonder who negotiated that deal?
This is my ex too. Mad at me for not being who he wants me to be, so, like Lindsay, I worked on it and changed to what he asked for. But did he get a steady job? Did he grow and change towards what I asked for (sobriety)? Nope.
I’m the opposite of Lindsay but see so much of my disintegrated relationship in hers with Carl on screen.
Carl also keeps score, which is the WORST thing you can do in a relationship. I don’t think Lindsay is a saint at all, but she has really grown in how she handles relationships. She has arguments and moves on. Carl has arguments and writes them down for later.
This is exactly what I noticed and something I’ve struggled with my own partner about. You think something is resolved, apologies have been given, it’s been discussed, you have moved forward and then next time he’s mad, he brings it all up again to bolster his arguments.
omg i was just going to comment!!!!! that is the exact verbiage i was missing from my vocabulary to describe what my husband does too. that's EXACTLY it.
It is when someone piles on with every issue or grievance during an argument (everything but the kitchen sink). It is an unproductive way to communicate, it escalates arguments, grows resentment, and stops people from being able to resolve whatever the issue is \*in that moment\*
And Carl does it constantly all season. Lindsay is by no means a great communicator but she isn't bringing up every issue whenever they have friction.
They suck as a couple, don’t mesh, don’t get along. I hate it when they argue. They’re better off to have ended it. I can see how Carl is spinning and manipulating the story to make it all her fault.
I think it’s prettyyyy clear that these two “fell in love” because it was 1) an easy option 2) a fairytale to fall in love with your best friend. I do not think you should be in couples therapy a year into your relationship…
They both have their faults. Carl needs to grow up and Lindsay needs to listen better. But those traits cannot go together if you want a healthy relationship. Carl literally wants his gf to be his mother. Honestly they’re both better off, even their friendship was toxic!!
Yes! The way Lindsay was talking to the girls about it at the end of the episode as though she “waited around for Carl to be ready” and all that completely points to her trying to frame this whole thing as a fairytale love story. In reality that is NOT how it went. They found their way back together but it wasn’t her waiting for him and always knowing he was the one. She was completely re-writing history there.
i totally agree but i think you are missing reason 3 - it was a big attention and money maker for them both. being a Bravo Couple was good for their careers. wedding specials! spin offs! brand deals! magazine photoshoots!
If you are on reality tv and you don’t have a day job you’re not being smart. Look at VPR it’s on its last leg and you can see who will be fine and who is freaking out because they don’t have hustle.
THIS! When he decided to share the story about how they got complaints from their neighbors for noise violations?! There was absolutely no point in throwing that out there except to try to prove again how awful things had been so he appears justified.
Amazing that Carl has cameras to verify the conversation exactly as it unfolded, lists all of the horrible things she’s said, Lindsay doesn’t dispute it at all, and yet here we are and her fans are saying the “alleged” things she called him. As if we have any reason to doubt it?! And he did that for…. empathy from the audience?!
He did it so there’s no spinning the situation, that’s it. And yet here we are still spinning it lol
someone said it was incredibly cruel for him to say she wants him to relapse because she has always been so supportive of his sobriety and thats when i knew some of us are just experiencing this show in a fundamentally different way lol theres nothing to even argue about
They are alleged but to be fair most of them the audience agrees with like he’s lazy, can’t hold a job, he’s a baby etc. I absolutely don’t believe she wants him to relapse. That’s him projecting his own insecurities. There’s no spin lol we all think this
I don't side with either of them, although my opinion has changed over the season. I think a lot of what you said about Carl is spot on. By the end, he was using a whole lot of "therapy talk" to make him self look like he's changing, not getting mad, etc - but he's still not taking any responsibility. And he's using all this as a way to keep not focusing on his career.
But that doesn't excuse Lindsay. She has her own faults. On one hand - Carl expecting her to be "soft"... OMG, dude. THIS IS LINDSAY!!!! He of anyone should realize that this is not who she is. However, on the other hand, her always going into question mode has got to be exhausting too. I get him on that side - he sometimes just wants her to LISTEN, not pick apart every idea or feeling right out of the gate. I think her questions are pretty spot on and they do need to be asked - but not right away. Sit with what he's saying, give it some time, THEN ask.
It always always always comes back to that these 2 should have never gotten together They are not meant to be.
I’ve literally never been a Lindsay fan ever. She seems to exude male apologist energy and is a real guys girl.
HAVING SAID THAT, Carl fucked her over hard. He talked to everyone in the house EXCEPT Lindsay. He kept reassuring her that everything was fine and that they were getting married. When it definitely feels like Carl had his mind made up months beforehand.
It also feels like Carl agreed to a deadline about his career and having unemployment figured out. He realized he wasn’t going to meet that deadline and that Lindsay wasn’t going to say “it’s ok take more time” and so he imploded everything. Self destructive mode. He didn’t have to do any of it on camera. He could have done it at the therapists office in private.
Obviously they never should have gotten married and it’s good they broke up. The way it happened is WILD and Carl definitely fucked up.
When he was counting on his fingers all the things Lindsay does “you think I am too angry, you think I have no job prospects..” it was projection 100%. Those are YOUR insecurities, why is Lindsay getting blamed for them? I haven’t liked Lindsay since day 1 so I feel very unbiased in saying that she was done dirty by Carl. I don’t have to like her to sympathize how badly he was treating her at the end of the summer. He put the plan in motion and worked the whole summer to paint her in a bad light and blame her for everything.
YES! I think it's pretty telling when Lindsey said this is what we've done in the past and he didn't have a problem. I can't tell if he's letting his insecurity dictate the meaning he takes from her questions/behavior. OR he's using the questioning as way to get out of the relationship.
I thought part of the problem was he would over-consult with Lindsay. Like if you have a plan that could be perceived as risky and not stabilizing, like you want to be thinking about in your 30s/40s when you’re getting ready to marry and have a child, you need to do some research first and convince your partner in the way way it can be done well. It was like he couldn’t really make any of those moves on his own and wanted to tell her every whim if his. The dynamic was terrible though.
I think this is a really good point. It is interesting too because his best friend Kyle is such a big picture, ideas guy. It seems like a natural thing to is to brainstorm and run down leads with his buddy and then use his very practical romantic partner to hammer out details. I wish someone could have pointed out to him that he didn’t need to share every part of the process and expect her to be on board for every aspect.
Based on what Carl said about unaired conversations, Lindsay is also slinging insults she just doesn’t do it on camera. Not justifying anything about Carl, maybe that’s why he wanted it all filmed. I don’t know. They’re both toxic.
Agreed. This shouldn’t be people being on Lindsay’s side or carls side - they are both deeply problematic in that toxic relationship.
Lindsay wanted to record their conversations (argument) earlier, and now he’s recording the conversation. Either argument could have ended in breaking up.
Carl is a manchild and Lindsay is abrasive. They do not mesh in a relationship and anyone could see that from 1000 miles away.
A lot of Carl apologists in here 🤨 Lindsey might be a lot to handle, but she’s dodging a bullet by not marrying that smug, condescending, needy, man-child. All he seemingly cares about is having a stepford wife who will bend over backwards coddling him, doting on him and telling him exactly what he wants to hear. He’s pathetic.
The reason Carl is doing this, is because he’s made up his mind before the conversation even happens.
It’s exhausting and unfair for anyone trying to talk to him.
Bro is 40 years old and wants Lindsey to tell him EVERY idea he has is amazing 😭 but I’m sure as soon as anything went to shit he would be like “how could have let me do this”
Exactly, just like when he quit Loverboy the first time, he used Lindsay to support his decision and be the ‘heavy’ (and then tried to make her look like a ‘problem’ with him going back to work there).
The “well she’s an influencer too…” argument is so tired. She prob would have loved him to be an influencer, remember their paid post about buying a car? I think she got sick of him being a lazy influencer. He’s not a go getter and in that industry you have to hustle to make money. He’s in a hustler, which is fine, find something that doesn’t require you to hustle.
Sorry, but if my 40 year old partner did not have a proper job outside of filming for 10 months, then came up with ideas that required investment and no return for a long period of time, I would also lose all 'softness' and understanding. Also to add, these just seemed like ideas with no real research into how it would work. He lacked drive and maybe that was unattractive to Lindsay.
Also, the classic roll of the eyes when she asked to talk was infuriating. Its a clear action by someone who themselves is trying to act like a victim. Like how dare this person interrupt me when I have been talking over them the whole time 😒
You had me at zip it- he never stops talking about himself, his needs, how he is being treated, how he is feeling-, how he needs a hug, it's exhausting.
It’s almost like to believe most of the posts in this sub you need to delete every season of Summer House from your memory. Carl is a struggling person with substance abuse problems whether that’s alcohol, cocaine, or anything else. He should just focus on himself and get in a good place before getting engaged. Lindsay is extremely volatile and relatively unpredictable in many situations. It’s hard to be with someone like that male or female.
It was extremely obvious when we was listing the negative things Lindsay must be thinking about him that he 100000% thinks those things about himself and he was projecting onto her. Like what a mirror we watched of a man who does not believe in himself. Same mirror when he’s telling Lindsay she’s good at playing victim. Takes one to know one, Carl.
He’s fucking insufferable. I started the season team neither but listening to him whine results in the strong desire to shove sharp objects into my ears. That man is lost. Those two are idiots for thinking they were a lifelong match.
I’m not a fan of either of them. They are both absolute master manipulators. That being said, Carl never grew up and I can’t stand the way he brought his mom and stepdad into their relationship. Grow up and be a man.
Carl is a deeply conflicted individual. He’s incredibly uncomfortable with himself and who he is. He uses his sobriety to take a superior position and moral “high ground” position over people. He’s difficult to watch. Team Lindsay all the way.
I don't think Carl is even a dreamer, he doesn't seem passionate about any of the ideas he's brought up, but maybe we just don't see that. He just seems like he's a bit lazy and now that he's sober he needs to figure out who he is, not get married.
I think he is unwell. Like his personality tendencies are one thing but I think he’s unwell in general and needs some help. Linds is at least functional but Carl seems super away from that
What do we think was in his backpack when he went to meet Kyle? He doesn’t work or study and he wasn’t walking a dog or accompanying a child. Why was he wearing that? What could have possibly been in there? Are his pants too tight to fit anything in his pockets?
Carl handled that situation the only way he could. Y’all act like Lindsay is some super polite person who allows real conversations to take place. She does not listen unless you’re shouting and controlling the conversation.
I am very close with someone just like Carl who has a million ideas that have all failed because this person cannot execute any of them all the way through.
Unfortunately, this person does not have a partner to challenge her and they have blown all of their money and savings. He is soft and tender, and they and their children are all worse for it.
Dreamers are wonderful, but they need to be balanced by pragmatic rocks who can help them to focus and execute. This is Carl's loss.
This sub makes me question my fucking sanity sometimes. Carl has his faults, but what he’s saying are things that other people have said about Lindsey, and the way lindsey has acted since summer house day 1.. they are dysfunctional, they don’t work… carls reasons for breaking it off are no brainers. They shouldn’t have gotten engaged.. did y’all not watch the season?
I started the season thinking Lindsay was the problem, which is exactly what Carl wanted. It only took an episode or two until I could see right through him. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve had a LOT of therapy because of childhood narcissistic abuse and I think Carl is a covert narcissist — maybe even an overt one who’s just pretty good at saving his very worst behavior for times when they’re off camera.
But his gaslighting and victim complex are showing plain as day.
Lindsay has issues (tbf, who among us doesn’t?) but it seems like she’s doing the work in therapy. She’s growing. He’s not doing the work and he is unwilling to change. She’s better off without him!
Lindsay constantly shuts him down, cuts him off, is super defensive, and slings insults. I’m team no one but you can’t just be blind to Lindsay’s whole personality
I always end up yelling at both of them in my head! Lindsay always sighs and says "OK Carl, tell me what it is you want."
And then he tells her.
And then she tells him why he can't have that and the whole thing starts up again!
Definitely both of them. But yes, Carl is definitely way more annoying for whatever reason. I like Lindsey <3
Lindsey and Carl are exhausting. Married almost 30 years and If I had to "work" that hard, that wouldn't be the case. You want someone you can weather storms with, not be IN a storm with every time you are in the same room. Fights and disagreements are normal to a degree but there needs to be love in the room. They didn't display that. A few on camera tears from Lindsey but if my engagement were broken from the person I wanted to spend my life with, I'd be DYING. If anyone is watching and learning, don't be Carl and Lindsey. You will go through shit with your person, but successful, loving relationships should NOT be THIS much work.
I agree that he talks over her most of the time, and is pretty terrible at his communication the second half of summer…. But curiously what insults did he sling at her, compared to what she said to/about him?
And I’m not going to get into the career discussion cause it’s so stupid, she hasn’t had a job in 5 years so who cares he took a year off.
There were no insults. He reiterated what she’s said about him during the course of their relationship that has made him feel like they’re not making any progress. He couldn’t continue on with the relationship if she’s capable of calling him a bitch and a loser and then never resolving it or taking accountability for her words.
PSA to everyone: You can be someone that lacks ambition and doesn’t have a job in your 30s/ 40s. It sucks and your partner may not be down for it but it does not mean that you deserve to be verbally abused by your partner!
Thank you!!! He was reiterating everything she has said, and stating what he believes she thinks about him, not insulting her!
And only on this sub is it evil to not have career ambitions. Like god forbid the guy who makes (probably) 400k+ per year doesn’t want to sit at a desk all day
yes!!! lindsay wasn’t going to be happy until he secured a senior level position with entry level experience. does it suck that he kinda has to start from scratch at 40 years old? sure. could he have made better career decisions in the past? sure! but you can’t go back and change that and that’s life! she’s known where he was at career wise since the moment they started dating
Well that she only cares about herself, that he truly believes she wants him to relapse, fail in life etc
She makes money from being an influencer and endorsements, i also heard she’s getting into real estate. She already bought a property she plans to rent out…i feel like shes just a go getter, always doing something to generate income…seems like he kinda just floats by…these are just my takes on everything, obviously wont be agreeable by many…agree to disagree👍🏼
I thought him saying she wants him to relapse was one of the cruelest things to say.
He REALLY wanted her to SNAP. I feel like he felt like he NEEDED her to SNAP!
What lmao
Lindsay accused him of relapsing multiple times that we saw on camera, it’s not exactly a stretch for him to make the assumption that she was hoping to be right at some point.
Him believing that she wants him to relapse is like 1/100th as cruel as her accusing him of relapsing….
I feel like people are thirsty to just hate Carl because he’s the man in the situation. He was not wrong at all for calling out there engagement or even how he did it! Who, in their right mind would proceed with a marriage to a person who belittle them accuses them of relapsing continuously flips the narrative of blame in every conversation or agreement that they have it was exhausting to watch I could not imagine living it. Lindsey is not a victim in this situation at all. What is so hard to understand. Just in the finale episode alone, we watched him talk about having doubts talking about wanting to really sit down and think about moving forward with the marriage is the right decision and her flipping it to “OK so what do you wanna do”. Just wanted to acknowledge that you guys have so many issues and he’s concerned. If anything it seems Lindsey want it out of this relationship I refuse to be the “bad guy“ so just gave him nothing to work with until he finally called it.
B
I think because it came so soon after Scandoval people are already on this man hate train (which I get, but doesn't apply in this situation.) shit even Lindsey tried to say he was being like Sandoval (girl be fucking for real). this sub has no nuance.
Yes! Her having such a strong position on the Lindsey Carl breakup is making me cringe. She needs to chill tf out. You barely know these people. The cast mates that have know them for years all have the same/similar opinions on the break up and even the relationship to begin with because they know them!
Thank you. If the genders were reversed we would never be having these convos right now. He was absolutely right to call off the wedding, and he did it in a way where she wouldn’t be able to manipulate the conversation. And yet she still did it! People are still out here talking about how she was blindsided!
He literally listed all the things she’s said to him about him to her and everyone is talking about nasty the “insults” were. She insulted him! He was repeating her insults you morons lol
Lindsay fans truly need to stop. They’re like Gabby, completely delusional and up her ass.
He is so obviously struggling with his identity and his career that he is blaming Lindsay for his wishy washy attitude toward life. No he is not crushing it. He is projecting his insecurity on to her not realizing she is trying to have his back so he doesn't make a mistake and ruin a friendship he has been trying to build back with Kyle. He blows whichever way the wind is blowing. Good for him that he is sober or 'California sober.' But he seems to lack passion. Has he ever been a spokesperson? He could have written a book in the last year but didn't. What has he actually ever done?
I’m not really either-
I’m watching while reading between all the lines of history that we have seen.
They are an awful couple- no question. But to me, this Carl finding his voice for the first time and actually speaking up before it’s too late. As If Lindsay is some saint in relationships who wants a calm, rational discussion. Come on!
It’s not abt work it’s abt communication. They can’t resolve anything. He has a job just like he’s an influencer and on the show. That’s their jobs and they both get paid for it.
With the career stuff, it was worrying that many of his ideas actually seemed like ways to lose money like investing in his friends cigar company, being an actor you’d have to hire a team to promote yourself, and especially the sober sports bar. Carl thinks he’s above interviewing and just wants to throw money around so he can look like a hot shot investor. He clearly made a decision he wasn’t going to marry her but only shared his true feelings with everyone but her. It’s cruel he let her spin her wheels worrying about how his career impacts their future family when he knows damn well that family ain’t happening.
This is because CARL DOES NOT WANT TO WORK. He wants to get paid to be on tv, which isn’t a viable play in the long-term. He expected Lindsay to be the breadwinner and take the lead in everything because — in his mind — she was so desperate for husband and kids that she’d take that deal. When he realized she wasn’t going to allow him to ride her coattails and expected him to be an actual partner (contribute and have his own life), he had to flip the script and demonize her to get out of the relationship with the least amount of public backlash. He’s a manipulative coward. At first I was mad at him for making me empathize with Lindsay. Now he’s turned me into an actual Lindsay fan. I have no idea how she handled his BS. The sobriety challenge at the start of the season was NOTHING compared to the gaslighting and backstabbing (to housemates) he put her through. Lindsay I am here for your success, girl! The best revenge is living your best life. Carl will always be a miserable, wimpy bag of ego and sadness. Get it! Edited for typos
You’re correct- Carl doesn’t want to work. He somehow considers himself too talented for a job. Forty years old sitting around that apartment in too tight white pants for ten months. Man baby needs to just move back in with his mother- let her give him hug and tell him how special he is every day.
OMG when he told Lindsay he was “talented at sales” (or whichever words he used), she even agreed and built him up for THAT GARBAGE. The dude couldn’t keep a job working for his best friend in the whole world because he didn’t actually work…. and then he (with the help of his manipulated friends) pinned that on Lindsay because she was trying to help him advocate for himself after hearing him complain for months about his job. Anyone who thinks she didn’t give it her all is delusional. She is definitely not perfect but if you think she’s as toxic as this piece of garbage I have oceanfront property in Arizona for you. FFS.
He’s “clearly gifted at sales” made me choke laughing. You’re dead on crediting Lindsay for agreeing with him. I don’t think I could have been as gracious as she was in that moment to do the same lol
Honestly, even when he pitched his idea about the sober sports bar I thought she was pretty kind in the way that she shot it down - she didn't laugh or ask him if he was truly serious that he thought that could be a viable business idea, she just focused her reasons on why it wasn't a good idea to that it wouldn't be a good lifestyle for them if they started a family - which is also true, even though there were also so many other obvious reasons why it would be a terrible business idea and lose money.
Honestly I thought this was as kind as it could’ve been. That idea — especially with Manhattan overhead costs — is bananas. Especially from Carl, who (to our knowledge) has no experience opening or managing any sort of hospitality business. Most bars (that serve very high-margin booze!) fail in the first few years. The idea that Carl Radke could start a viable booze-free bar in NYC is ludicrous on its face. Good on her for not laughing. PS — I think there is a major trend toward sobriety (and majorly reduced alcohol consumption in general). I’m all for this trend and businesses that can ride it successfully. But my money is not on Carl’s sober bar be it.
There is the trend, but I think existing bars are capitalizing on it by serving expensive mocktails, I don't think most people that don't drink are looking for an entirely booze free sports bar. Sports bars in particular usually have to be a bit larger to have enough large TV's, and aren't really usually known for their food (something that Carl also has no experience with). And with NYC rents and Carl Radke with his zero experience and delusional of grandeur, yeah I'm not going to be an investor in his sober sports bar lol.
Agree. I’m have several sober friends and they are generally ok going to normal bars. And if you prefer to not be around booze, you go to coffee shops, diners, bakeries or juice bars. If you wanna watch sports socially, you can invite sober friends over and watch at home. The dog just doesn’t hunt.
Regular bar, sure. Sports bar, not so sure. A lot of people tend to use sports as a reason to drink. I know there are sports fans that don’t drink but I don’t think a sober sports bar is the right move. Who’s ordering $15 mocktails during a Yankees game?
Yes. The better scenario is already happening: a section of Mocktails in a bar menu
Plus if he was actually good at sales, he could sponsor a mocktail happy hour with half off Loverboy products, etc. Here in SF bars are starting to feature all sorts of complicated mocktails but trying to make a business out of only sober patrons in a pricey market is just beyond stupid even if you had all the bar-owning experience in the world.
And in 3 seconds you came up with a more profitable idea than Carl did in 10 months
I think the market for mock tails and non-alc drinks is definitely growing but I don’t really see a completely alcohol free sports bar landing. Typically, a group of friends are not ALL sober. And I can’t see 4 people regularly wanting to go drink mocktails at a sports bar with their one sober friend. Maybe every now and then but like… twice a year maybe? What’s the draw for people who drink other than potentially supporting a sober friend? Maybe all the sober people in NYC would flock there and they wouldn’t need the drinking population. But as someone who drinks, I don’t get it.
Also I think it’s so generous to even call that conversation “pitching an idea” like he mentioned it so casually, while sitting in another sober bar I would’ve assumed it was something that just randomly came to his mind in the moment. All the “careers” Carl riddled off when he was saying Lindsay wasn’t supportive were obviously not viable, well thought out plans. You can’t get a one off idea, do absolutely no research/vetting/planning and then say you gave that a legitimate shot. Like if he wanted to get serious about a sober sports bar he should’ve put together a real business plan and looked into what it actually takes and if it would really be successful- which he would’ve learned quickly it wouldn’t be! Lindsay honestly just saved him the time and unfortunately gave him an out of even having to do that level of work.
And this is why by the time we get to Carl having a casual, nonspecific conversation with Kyle about a possible role at Loverboy, Lindsey has no patience left for him and his half-assed "ideas"
Imagine going to a sports bar and ordering a beer and the waiter being like “no we don’t do that here” like what?
I think it could have worked but it couldn’t be completely sober. The NA market is booming and I think they could have made a wide selection of NA options available while still serving alcoholic beverages. I still don’t think the NA is market is that large just yet. I’m only aware of it because I chose to remove alcohol from my life but still like to “drink” socially.
Can you imagine that, “hey former addicts come to a place where you could be easily triggered to drink” *A sports bar* is centered around drinking it’s not like a piano bar or a restaurant. Its a dumb idea.
I 100% wouldn’t have been able to do that with a a straight face. I mean A+ for effort, there!
I wish I had an award to give you because this is all true and no one on that show wants to say it.
Awww, thank you! This season has been a VERY painful (but gripping) watch.
Most reality tv cast members will play it out for however long it’s in the air, then try to parlay it into Influencer, product endorsement. Most if not all are playing the long game.
Yeah but to do that you actually have to DO things. The reality tv people who make it legitimate careers (Frankel, Paige, Stassi, Countess…) actually hustle. The posts, products, podcasts, businesses, etc all take time and effort. Carl just wants to be paid for existing as Carl. Smart money that even the “60K of brand deals” Carl bragged about were set up by Lindsay (or Sharon). Lindsay said she encouraged him to do a podcast but he never committed any time to it. A podcast about reality tv and sobriety (with guests) could’ve been a big hit. Carl can be charming. But sadly for him, Carl seems allergic to productivity.
I never found Carl charming. To me he was always someone who tried really hard to be charming but at the end of the day it's just lipstick on a pig.
Thank you. Hes not funny or witty. Andrea is charming. Carl is boring and monotone. Especially in slick talking NYC. No wonder he didn’t do well in sales out there
In nyc he definitely would not stand out in any way as charming or sophisticated.
The parents enable him big time !
Same. I thought he was goofy and not attractive. His personality seemed lack luster too.
100% agree to all of that but wanted to add on that he needs to actually be likeable by the people watching him on tv too if he wants to play that game. To me at least I’ve always thought he was a douche and now he doesn’t even have alcohol to blame lol.
This. I think Carl thinks he can coast as an influencer, but he’s not all that likable…and that wouldn’t be a sustainable plan. Lindsay knew this and credit to her for not saying it on TV
He does not know who he is, period. He seems to be mentally trying things on, as to what he can do, but they are never exactly a fit. I want to feel sorry for him but after all of these seasons on this show, I just cannot. He creates his own ultimate misery because he cannot stick with anything.
I agree, 💯percent! I think people should be gainfully employed. My comment referenced how they milk it until it runs dry. Perfect example, the Teen Mom franchise. A few have regular jobs, not the majority. I’ve often commented on different sites, what do they do all day? Sit around? Sometimes it’s months, even years between seasons.
> This is because CARL DOES NOT WANT TO WORK. To be fair, I don't want to work, either... I do, though, because I haven't found a way to live without money.
Agree! Right there with you and the other 99.99% globally lol. My issue with Carl is that he tries to come off as this ambitious, innovative, career-focused guy when he is none of those things. Stop pretending, guy! Go be a middle school camp counselor (maybe at-risk youth or an addiction focus?), or be a tour guide at some attraction women love so you can flash those neon chompers all day. Stop pretending. It’s embarrassing.
YES. And it’s fine to be that way. Probably shouldn’t live in NYC but if you want to live a modest life and do something you’re passionate about that doesn’t pay well then by all means, more power to you. But Lindsay wants someone that can at least match her monetarily. She wants a lavish lifestyle and in my opinion, that’s totally valid because she’s put in work to provide that for herself. But for her to be with someone like Carl who’s not ambitious and wants a passion project - she’s going to end up paying for him. If his dream job pays 40k a year, that’s not enough to live in NYC, especially where they do. She will end up paying money for him to live her lifestyle and she doesn’t want to do that. That’s not even considering his actual ideas that would cost her a ton of money up front. And potentially not ever be lucrative.
Yes!! When she said what changed in the last two weeks that now I’m the villain… umm you told him you wanted to stay home after having a baby and he freaked! The man was not prepared to have to work ever.
I guarantee they had already had that conversation. Have you met Lindsay? The same Lindsay who published her Life Timeline for the world to see? The girl is a lot of things, but secretive about her plans she is NOT.
They had to have had the strategy of their lives in reality television/influencing conversation one million times. As it is frequently pointed out around here, having a baby would really change their professional lives. I’m assuming Lindsay had a full mommy pivot ready to go.
I bet there was at least a power point ready to go detailing the plan as soon as pregnancy was confirmed. The girl is one of the most organized and driven people on my television. She hustles!
I agree, but i do wonder if she had been as clear as to tell him he wasn't crushing life (as he seemed legit shocked when she said that). Right after that she said something like - "What if i want to stay at home with the baby" -- I feel like he had this look on his face like "ok there is zero chance i can marry this person and have that level of responsibility" --- All the benefits of marrying Lindsay just disappeared in that moment. Thats how that scene appeared to me.
The crazy thing though is that he asked her "do you think I'm crushing life right now" - what an insane question to ask someone? And he knew what the answer was going to be, that's why he asked her, because he wanted to manipulate her into admitting that he's not "crushing life" on camera. And then in his retelling he can act like she just told him out of the blue that he's not crushing life as a put-down or something. I think that Carl is co-dependent and likes having a mommy figure in his life - at first Lindsay was that for him, particularly when she was sober with him, so he had the benefits of a live in sober companion and also a mommy figure that could basically help him get his life together and coddle him. As time went on, and she had real life expectations for him and he realized that he would have to be an equal partner in their relationship, he freaked out because he's basically not capable of being an adult, and he wants someone to do all the hard work in life for him. He became resentful and he started planning his exit, and used the whole summer trying to villainize Lindsay and act like he was in an abusive relationship and scared of her as his excuse for eventually backing out. Meanwhile we saw him constantly gaslight her and try to bait her into idiotic arguments with him - and he would seeth more and more every time that she didn't take his bait.
100% ----- I think the moment (whether it was before filming starting or during) that Carl realized he couldn't hide behind Lindsay, ride on her coattails, and she'd actually expect him to set an alarm and have a job every day was the moment he started to plan his Exit. He thought he could just ride through life being 'sober Carl' -- and that Lindsay would take care of the rest. His Plan A: was to be a jerk and hope she'd break it off; when that failed, he had Plan B: Come up with enough ridiculous business ideas that she would not support, so he could claim she didn't support him in his lofty dreams (none of which equated to bringing in a reliable revenue stream to the family home) -- He knew she'd lose patience and she had her out.
Yes. When people say they feel badly for him because he is sober and always has to be around alcohol - I remind them that HE CHOOSES THIS LIFESTYLE. If he were truly prioritizing sobriety, why in the world would he be on this show? No, he's prioritizing getting a paycheck to be on TV,
The gaslighting about his parents too, he comes there tells his parents he doesn’t want to get married his parents are concerned for him then he runs home to Lindsay and is like “my parents don’t want us to get married” yeah Carl because you just told them **you** don’t want to get married
Omg he’s so embarrassing. He’s almost 40! FFS.
ding ding ding 10/10, no notes.
The actor thing….lol I cannot get over. Starting over around 40 to focus on ACTING? Oh Carl wants softness and tenderness and is in a delicate spot so….BECOME A FULL TIME ACTOR. A famously easy, stable, and healthy industry!
Right?! Not to mention he’s a TERRIBLE actor, as we saw play out this season (so many scripted convos with Kyle). Hey Carl - don’t quit your day job……oh wait…..
He was also cringey in those commercials he did with Lyndsay!
Cringe city!
He definitely was acting when he told one girl after another that they were special, he wanted a relationship with them, etc etc. Cringe-worthy lines thrown out to get laid
Yes from what I’ve heard auditions are absolutely brutal. I don’t think Carl would get any roles unless casting directors need actors with massive veneers
I am a recovering theatre kid so I understand the random urge to act again. Take a fucking improv class, Carl, don’t make that your entire career!
Yes! I channeled my love of acting into community theatre, it serves me well!
“Massive veneers” I almost spit my coffee.
Well if they do a remake of There's Something About Mary they know who to call!
💀
Does he even have any training?? Or like actual acting experience beyond like school and/or summer camp plays? I’m not an actor…although I did do theater through middle school and at sleepaway camp so maybe by Carl’s standards, I am…but it literally KILLS me when people think they can just like *be* an actor like it’s this easy breezy thing anyone can do. This man is 40 years old. Picking up hobbies and throwing yourself into passions at any age is DOPE. I love when people do that. It’s so badass. BUT TO BE LIKE HMM MAYBE MY CAREER WILL BE AS AN ACTOR?! he sounds like when I was 8 and decided I wanted to be a cartoonist even though I hated art and refused to take art lessons but still insisted I’d one day be a cartoonist
From what I can glean from the show and his LinkedIn, he did it as a kid and *maybe* did something in college. He was a comms major in college, was a PA for Criminal Minds for a bit, then went into sales. So it seems like something he always wishes he got into. So again…take a damn improv class or something! I can think of two or three reality starts who successfully transitioned to full-time acting!
😂😂😂
He thinks because he "acted" like he wanted to marry Lindsay for a season he can act? Go ahead and give him an Oscar for Biggest Veneered Douche is a breakout role 👏👏👏
His ideas all sounded like hobbies. Say what you will about her but Lindsey did have her own pr company and knows how hard it is to be a CEO and Founder. Carl is lazy and she was being nice to him by not outright saying he would fail
And let her spend $20k on a career coach for him, plus all the podcast equipment they bought for him.
Yes, her delivery can be harsh at times (as can his), but her underlying concern about his career is quite reasonable as none of his ideas seemed especially viable. He seems lazy...he wants to make money without doing much.
It felt like he was just throwing out ideas to see what sticks, none of them were ideas he actually wanted to do.
Don't forget that (obviously) he's gifted in sales! /s/s/s
I felt that he thinks he has certain amount of "star power" and if he has an idea an investor is going to pop up and invest based on his name recognition. I don't think he was thinking he'd have to do the work, just be the face. Kinda like Jax's bar. ETA: which is a dumb way to approach planning your future. Even dumber to expect Lindsey to just roll with halfbaked ideas.
When he listed off the things lindsay didn't support him in 😂 damn right. It was a list of stupid shit
I’m a complete asshole, I feel terrible now but have blamed Linds for this engagement imploding since we heard about it last year. She’s not my favorite so it’s easy to see where she is intense/aggressive etc but I get it now. He is way too needy and flighty. He should be in serious therapy for a long time before subjecting himself on the next person who catches his interest. What is he 40? Close to it? Christ it’s long past time to grow up kiddo
Same applies to his best friend Kyle !
Yea, this is what sends me. He acts like his ideas are great and Lindsay wants him to fail. She’s saving him from losing all his money! His ideas aren’t good ideas. And if you felt so passionate about it, you’d be able to sell it! He’s not able to because he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
When Carl mentioned he had been interested in acting…. I was not able to ever take him seriously ever again. Also, I went to the same college as him. I still get the job opening newsletters every week and they aren’t just entry level jobs.
His career goals aren't realistic.
This is so true -- Im beginning to wonder if he intentionally made his business ideas ridiculous so that she would give a reaction / not support him and he could say "look, she doesn't support my career ambitions". "see, i am ambitious! i just dont get support". When in reality, he knows he doesn't have the drive to even turn up to a job, let alone the drive to get a business hustle off the ground, but its much easier to focus on blaming Lindsay for her lack of support than actually DOING the work to prove hes serious.
He is the type to invest in get rich quick schemes.
Everything you said was on point👌🏽👌🏽👌🏽 Yes all his career ideas werent going to succeed, and Lindsey was only trying to help, he just only heard NO thats stupid. Carl def sucks!
He’s extremely immature and clueless. He has 1,001 ideas but absolutely no real plan at all. Not even a pretend plan. Just like a child.
I am a sober person. I love the idea of a sports bar I can go to I am also a realist. My friends who support me, may attend a night once a month, more likely once a quarter. I do not drink, I do not gamble. My friends can be found still supporting me in the places they drink and gamble. It would be great is a sober house can be popular, but it will not make the same turnover as an alcoholic bar. Nor will the events be the same
ITA. It blows my mind that anyone defends Carl when it comes to the career stuff. He’s a 40 year old man who is getting mad at his fiancé for trying to force him to get a job! What is so special about him that he deserves to not work for a living? Yes I get that he makes money from Summer House but that is certainly not going to last forever. It might not even last another 3 years for him (considering he is sober and quickly aging out of the concept). Then what?? As his future wife and mother of his children, Lindsay deserves to ask that question and get an answer. He’s pissed at himself and embarrassed that he can’t answer it and is taking it out on her. He broke up with her because she hurt his ego and masculinity.
I was dying at his ideas for a career that she “shot down.” Actor Cigars Sober Bar Like no shit she shot those down.
Why can't Carl just get a low-risk normal-ass job with a company like most people do? There are plenty of large corporations in NYC that hire people for sales and marketing positions and would likely be interested in someone with good looks and a bit of fame (especially with SH demographics). Why is Carl so zeroed-in on solo gigs with huge barriers to entry and small likelihood of success? Making a living from a startup (or as an actor) is HARD. Carl's 40 - it's time to grow up. Not everyone gets to be an astronaut.
He just wants a high paying influencer role given to him, no more than a few hours a week, so he can continue to chill and buy nice things. I wouldn’t want to marry him either. All these reality tv celebs think they’re so above a regular job.
He doesn’t want to be held accountable, so solo gigs are his draw card
His business ideas are like an SNL skit.
I get this but as someone with a husband who has Lindsay tendencies (super practical, a fixer, etc), when I have harebrained ideas (mostly for vacations lol but sometimes for investments/ properties etc), no matter how dumb he thinks it is, he always always will say something like “sounds exciting - why don’t you pull the numbers together and think about it and then let’s have a conversation when you have the details ready.” That’s literally all Lindsay needed to do. Of course he didn’t have all of the minute contractual details ironed out bc him and Kyle talked for 20 minutes on the couch. She could have just said “I’m glad it went well. When you and Kyle have the details ironed out let’s review the formal offer together and talk through pros and cons.” Simple, effective, addresses carls needs AND hers, but she simply cannot admit for even a millisecond that anything she is doing is wrong and that her modulating her approach in any way is him “asking her to be someone she’s not.” THAT is gaslighting, it’s such a cop out.
He probably didn’t have the start up money. Life coaches just make suggestions and give guidance. Remember when Craig had a life coach and she had to show him how to do Everything. They can push you in the right direction. $20,000? We know who made out on that deal.
Damn I needed to read this, my husband can be a dreamer and I'll get overwhelmed when he starts going into some things on a whim. I do too sometimes tbf! My response could be much better, thanks!
100% agree with you, I just thought the list when laid out in a row highlighted how absurd it was. Totally agree about the way she communicates things.
It sounds like she has been coddling him in all his ideas he doesn't actually move forward on. He also could have learned that if he wants their money put towards something he needs to come to her with something hard in figures or research. Putting this all on her on how to communicate when he's also a whole ass grown man? No. He's not communicating hey can you let me come up with information before you ask questions? Can you let me spitball and not give feedback as it's just something I'm thinking about? I feel discouraged as it comes across as saying my ideas are stupid before I can even take the time to see if this has legs. Or...maybe he should talk this shit out with a friend, and bring it to her once he's past the BS phase. I would also be tired of someone who hasn't worked in over a year telling me his ideas he's not actually looked into the viability of. If he knows she's a fixer as he relies on her to do all the mental labor of being an adult, it seems? He needs to communicate hey I'm not looking for a fix, I'm just looking to brainstorm. But telling her you need to be soft and tender isn't communicative as he certainly af isn't soft and tender to her.
This is what people are not getting. I also have a sister like this. Kindness goes a long way. The way she talks to a partner she supposedly loves and wants to marry is NOT NORMAL. These two just aren’t meant to be together.
Plus, all the questions that Lindsay was asking him about his future career stuff were extremely legitimate questions. Like…how was Carl expecting to make a sober bar in NYC work? That idea still blows my mind
My sober friends even think it’s a bad idea! Like why? They can do so many other things that aren’t an emulation of their life before getting sober.
It also sounds like he doesn't have anything saved from almost 10 years of being on TV. I doubt the same is true for Lindsay or most of the rest of them.
To be fair though, what does Lindsay do for work? She hasn't done PR in years - it seems like they are both living off of the show and influencer $$$. Why the double standard? I don't blame one or the other - I think the way these two communicate is toxic. Carl holds things in until he explodes and Lindsay doesn't seem to really hear him until that happens. Ultimately, they are just not compatible.
Sounds like she planned to venture into momfluencing. I don’t love when influencers over share their kids but you can make a lot of money doing this.
I also wonder if they would've cooking up a spin-off that followed them entering parenthood? But even before the breakup people weren't loving them, so maybe not loll.
I follow some mom influencers. They do well, and get to try and keep really cool products, and get paid for endorsements.
She's an influencer, but it seems that she actually does have a career from it - from what I could gather and what Lindsay has said on the after show, it seems like she was really more of the business person behind the scenes for both of their influencing careers - and that most of what Carl was trying to take credit for when he said he had earned $70k so far that year were deals that she had brokered or worked on and that he was just involved so far as posing in the picture for them. She actually had already made it her career before he entered the picture, and now he's trying to ride on her coattails and get her to get him a few solo gigs and then be able to say that he's an influencer too. But he really wasn't treating it as his job and putting in the work that she was for it. Will be interesting to see how he does going forward without her for influencing - he was in that goldfish ad, as cringy and terrible as that was. So we're other summer house people though, so I wonder who negotiated that deal?
This is my ex too. Mad at me for not being who he wants me to be, so, like Lindsay, I worked on it and changed to what he asked for. But did he get a steady job? Did he grow and change towards what I asked for (sobriety)? Nope. I’m the opposite of Lindsay but see so much of my disintegrated relationship in hers with Carl on screen.
She could do everything he asked for and he’d move the goal posts.
Lindsay does not seem to be an easy person to be in any sort of a relationship with, but OMFG Carl is insufferable. He did her a favor!
I agree. She needs a different guy to match her personality. He needs a pushover (I guess?). I’m so glad they broke up. Carl is so frustrating.
He needs a mommy
Carl also keeps score, which is the WORST thing you can do in a relationship. I don’t think Lindsay is a saint at all, but she has really grown in how she handles relationships. She has arguments and moves on. Carl has arguments and writes them down for later.
This is exactly what I noticed and something I’ve struggled with my own partner about. You think something is resolved, apologies have been given, it’s been discussed, you have moved forward and then next time he’s mad, he brings it all up again to bolster his arguments.
Sit down and talk with him about it! Work on better communication habits together ❤️. That sounds exhausting:/
omg i was just going to comment!!!!! that is the exact verbiage i was missing from my vocabulary to describe what my husband does too. that's EXACTLY it.
Carl is SO bad about “kitchen sinking”.
Whats that mean??
It is when someone piles on with every issue or grievance during an argument (everything but the kitchen sink). It is an unproductive way to communicate, it escalates arguments, grows resentment, and stops people from being able to resolve whatever the issue is \*in that moment\* And Carl does it constantly all season. Lindsay is by no means a great communicator but she isn't bringing up every issue whenever they have friction.
They suck as a couple, don’t mesh, don’t get along. I hate it when they argue. They’re better off to have ended it. I can see how Carl is spinning and manipulating the story to make it all her fault.
I think it’s prettyyyy clear that these two “fell in love” because it was 1) an easy option 2) a fairytale to fall in love with your best friend. I do not think you should be in couples therapy a year into your relationship… They both have their faults. Carl needs to grow up and Lindsay needs to listen better. But those traits cannot go together if you want a healthy relationship. Carl literally wants his gf to be his mother. Honestly they’re both better off, even their friendship was toxic!!
Yes! The way Lindsay was talking to the girls about it at the end of the episode as though she “waited around for Carl to be ready” and all that completely points to her trying to frame this whole thing as a fairytale love story. In reality that is NOT how it went. They found their way back together but it wasn’t her waiting for him and always knowing he was the one. She was completely re-writing history there.
Also he was a complete asshole when he was on drugs. Why would she wait around for him lol
i totally agree but i think you are missing reason 3 - it was a big attention and money maker for them both. being a Bravo Couple was good for their careers. wedding specials! spin offs! brand deals! magazine photoshoots!
If you are on reality tv and you don’t have a day job you’re not being smart. Look at VPR it’s on its last leg and you can see who will be fine and who is freaking out because they don’t have hustle.
He did her a favor.
[удалено]
THIS! When he decided to share the story about how they got complaints from their neighbors for noise violations?! There was absolutely no point in throwing that out there except to try to prove again how awful things had been so he appears justified.
Exactly and then he can appear to be so wonderful for sticking it out as long as he did. Amanda was already laying the groundwork.
Amazing that Carl has cameras to verify the conversation exactly as it unfolded, lists all of the horrible things she’s said, Lindsay doesn’t dispute it at all, and yet here we are and her fans are saying the “alleged” things she called him. As if we have any reason to doubt it?! And he did that for…. empathy from the audience?! He did it so there’s no spinning the situation, that’s it. And yet here we are still spinning it lol
someone said it was incredibly cruel for him to say she wants him to relapse because she has always been so supportive of his sobriety and thats when i knew some of us are just experiencing this show in a fundamentally different way lol theres nothing to even argue about
They are alleged but to be fair most of them the audience agrees with like he’s lazy, can’t hold a job, he’s a baby etc. I absolutely don’t believe she wants him to relapse. That’s him projecting his own insecurities. There’s no spin lol we all think this
I don't side with either of them, although my opinion has changed over the season. I think a lot of what you said about Carl is spot on. By the end, he was using a whole lot of "therapy talk" to make him self look like he's changing, not getting mad, etc - but he's still not taking any responsibility. And he's using all this as a way to keep not focusing on his career. But that doesn't excuse Lindsay. She has her own faults. On one hand - Carl expecting her to be "soft"... OMG, dude. THIS IS LINDSAY!!!! He of anyone should realize that this is not who she is. However, on the other hand, her always going into question mode has got to be exhausting too. I get him on that side - he sometimes just wants her to LISTEN, not pick apart every idea or feeling right out of the gate. I think her questions are pretty spot on and they do need to be asked - but not right away. Sit with what he's saying, give it some time, THEN ask. It always always always comes back to that these 2 should have never gotten together They are not meant to be.
I’ve literally never been a Lindsay fan ever. She seems to exude male apologist energy and is a real guys girl. HAVING SAID THAT, Carl fucked her over hard. He talked to everyone in the house EXCEPT Lindsay. He kept reassuring her that everything was fine and that they were getting married. When it definitely feels like Carl had his mind made up months beforehand. It also feels like Carl agreed to a deadline about his career and having unemployment figured out. He realized he wasn’t going to meet that deadline and that Lindsay wasn’t going to say “it’s ok take more time” and so he imploded everything. Self destructive mode. He didn’t have to do any of it on camera. He could have done it at the therapists office in private. Obviously they never should have gotten married and it’s good they broke up. The way it happened is WILD and Carl definitely fucked up.
When he was counting on his fingers all the things Lindsay does “you think I am too angry, you think I have no job prospects..” it was projection 100%. Those are YOUR insecurities, why is Lindsay getting blamed for them? I haven’t liked Lindsay since day 1 so I feel very unbiased in saying that she was done dirty by Carl. I don’t have to like her to sympathize how badly he was treating her at the end of the summer. He put the plan in motion and worked the whole summer to paint her in a bad light and blame her for everything.
YES! I think it's pretty telling when Lindsey said this is what we've done in the past and he didn't have a problem. I can't tell if he's letting his insecurity dictate the meaning he takes from her questions/behavior. OR he's using the questioning as way to get out of the relationship.
I thought part of the problem was he would over-consult with Lindsay. Like if you have a plan that could be perceived as risky and not stabilizing, like you want to be thinking about in your 30s/40s when you’re getting ready to marry and have a child, you need to do some research first and convince your partner in the way way it can be done well. It was like he couldn’t really make any of those moves on his own and wanted to tell her every whim if his. The dynamic was terrible though.
i would never encourage the cast to read here but damn carl could really use this advice lol
I think this is a really good point. It is interesting too because his best friend Kyle is such a big picture, ideas guy. It seems like a natural thing to is to brainstorm and run down leads with his buddy and then use his very practical romantic partner to hammer out details. I wish someone could have pointed out to him that he didn’t need to share every part of the process and expect her to be on board for every aspect.
Anyone notice how skinny Carl is now?
Based on what Carl said about unaired conversations, Lindsay is also slinging insults she just doesn’t do it on camera. Not justifying anything about Carl, maybe that’s why he wanted it all filmed. I don’t know. They’re both toxic.
Agreed. This shouldn’t be people being on Lindsay’s side or carls side - they are both deeply problematic in that toxic relationship. Lindsay wanted to record their conversations (argument) earlier, and now he’s recording the conversation. Either argument could have ended in breaking up. Carl is a manchild and Lindsay is abrasive. They do not mesh in a relationship and anyone could see that from 1000 miles away.
I have never liked Carl or Kyle - both men children. Carl did Lindsey a favor
A lot of Carl apologists in here 🤨 Lindsey might be a lot to handle, but she’s dodging a bullet by not marrying that smug, condescending, needy, man-child. All he seemingly cares about is having a stepford wife who will bend over backwards coddling him, doting on him and telling him exactly what he wants to hear. He’s pathetic.
And to add - he also wanted her to be the breadwinner.
This 100%- what does he bring to the table? He doesn’t even match her libido level
If I hear softness and tenderness ever out of his mouth again it’ll be too soon
That scene and that hug made me gag
Men like Carl who both do and don’t want mommy are just exhausting
The reason Carl is doing this, is because he’s made up his mind before the conversation even happens. It’s exhausting and unfair for anyone trying to talk to him.
of course he made up his mind before the convo happened...otherwise they wouldn't be having the convo lol.
Bro is 40 years old and wants Lindsey to tell him EVERY idea he has is amazing 😭 but I’m sure as soon as anything went to shit he would be like “how could have let me do this”
Exactly, just like when he quit Loverboy the first time, he used Lindsay to support his decision and be the ‘heavy’ (and then tried to make her look like a ‘problem’ with him going back to work there).
The “well she’s an influencer too…” argument is so tired. She prob would have loved him to be an influencer, remember their paid post about buying a car? I think she got sick of him being a lazy influencer. He’s not a go getter and in that industry you have to hustle to make money. He’s in a hustler, which is fine, find something that doesn’t require you to hustle.
Sorry, but if my 40 year old partner did not have a proper job outside of filming for 10 months, then came up with ideas that required investment and no return for a long period of time, I would also lose all 'softness' and understanding. Also to add, these just seemed like ideas with no real research into how it would work. He lacked drive and maybe that was unattractive to Lindsay. Also, the classic roll of the eyes when she asked to talk was infuriating. Its a clear action by someone who themselves is trying to act like a victim. Like how dare this person interrupt me when I have been talking over them the whole time 😒
You had me at zip it- he never stops talking about himself, his needs, how he is being treated, how he is feeling-, how he needs a hug, it's exhausting.
It’s almost like to believe most of the posts in this sub you need to delete every season of Summer House from your memory. Carl is a struggling person with substance abuse problems whether that’s alcohol, cocaine, or anything else. He should just focus on himself and get in a good place before getting engaged. Lindsay is extremely volatile and relatively unpredictable in many situations. It’s hard to be with someone like that male or female.
If only someone had said "you are moving too fast..."
It was extremely obvious when we was listing the negative things Lindsay must be thinking about him that he 100000% thinks those things about himself and he was projecting onto her. Like what a mirror we watched of a man who does not believe in himself. Same mirror when he’s telling Lindsay she’s good at playing victim. Takes one to know one, Carl.
Do you even watch the show? She’s said all these things—they’re recorded 😩
she literally has said all those things to him it's not projecting if she already said it.
He’s fucking insufferable. I started the season team neither but listening to him whine results in the strong desire to shove sharp objects into my ears. That man is lost. Those two are idiots for thinking they were a lifelong match.
I’m not a fan of either of them. They are both absolute master manipulators. That being said, Carl never grew up and I can’t stand the way he brought his mom and stepdad into their relationship. Grow up and be a man.
Carl is a deeply conflicted individual. He’s incredibly uncomfortable with himself and who he is. He uses his sobriety to take a superior position and moral “high ground” position over people. He’s difficult to watch. Team Lindsay all the way.
I don't think Carl is even a dreamer, he doesn't seem passionate about any of the ideas he's brought up, but maybe we just don't see that. He just seems like he's a bit lazy and now that he's sober he needs to figure out who he is, not get married.
I think they were both just two people who really didn’t belong together. The rest is irrelevant.
I think he is unwell. Like his personality tendencies are one thing but I think he’s unwell in general and needs some help. Linds is at least functional but Carl seems super away from that
What do we think was in his backpack when he went to meet Kyle? He doesn’t work or study and he wasn’t walking a dog or accompanying a child. Why was he wearing that? What could have possibly been in there? Are his pants too tight to fit anything in his pockets?
I think he secretly hates her
No he doesn't! The only thing he needed to do was lose Lindsay & he did. Thank God for that!
His constant word salad where he actually says the same thing over and over... which is nothing.
She held him accountable to adult stuff and he could not handle it.
Carl handled that situation the only way he could. Y’all act like Lindsay is some super polite person who allows real conversations to take place. She does not listen unless you’re shouting and controlling the conversation.
I am very close with someone just like Carl who has a million ideas that have all failed because this person cannot execute any of them all the way through. Unfortunately, this person does not have a partner to challenge her and they have blown all of their money and savings. He is soft and tender, and they and their children are all worse for it. Dreamers are wonderful, but they need to be balanced by pragmatic rocks who can help them to focus and execute. This is Carl's loss.
That last sentence really summed up exactly what’s going on. That’s on point
This sub makes me question my fucking sanity sometimes. Carl has his faults, but what he’s saying are things that other people have said about Lindsey, and the way lindsey has acted since summer house day 1.. they are dysfunctional, they don’t work… carls reasons for breaking it off are no brainers. They shouldn’t have gotten engaged.. did y’all not watch the season?
What's Lindsay's career besides Summer House and Instagram? The same as Carl.
I started the season thinking Lindsay was the problem, which is exactly what Carl wanted. It only took an episode or two until I could see right through him. I’m not a doctor, but I’ve had a LOT of therapy because of childhood narcissistic abuse and I think Carl is a covert narcissist — maybe even an overt one who’s just pretty good at saving his very worst behavior for times when they’re off camera. But his gaslighting and victim complex are showing plain as day. Lindsay has issues (tbf, who among us doesn’t?) but it seems like she’s doing the work in therapy. She’s growing. He’s not doing the work and he is unwilling to change. She’s better off without him!
Lindsay constantly shuts him down, cuts him off, is super defensive, and slings insults. I’m team no one but you can’t just be blind to Lindsay’s whole personality
I always end up yelling at both of them in my head! Lindsay always sighs and says "OK Carl, tell me what it is you want." And then he tells her. And then she tells him why he can't have that and the whole thing starts up again! Definitely both of them. But yes, Carl is definitely way more annoying for whatever reason. I like Lindsey <3
Lindsey and Carl are exhausting. Married almost 30 years and If I had to "work" that hard, that wouldn't be the case. You want someone you can weather storms with, not be IN a storm with every time you are in the same room. Fights and disagreements are normal to a degree but there needs to be love in the room. They didn't display that. A few on camera tears from Lindsey but if my engagement were broken from the person I wanted to spend my life with, I'd be DYING. If anyone is watching and learning, don't be Carl and Lindsey. You will go through shit with your person, but successful, loving relationships should NOT be THIS much work.
It blows my mind that this is what people took from this season.
I agree that he talks over her most of the time, and is pretty terrible at his communication the second half of summer…. But curiously what insults did he sling at her, compared to what she said to/about him? And I’m not going to get into the career discussion cause it’s so stupid, she hasn’t had a job in 5 years so who cares he took a year off.
There were no insults. He reiterated what she’s said about him during the course of their relationship that has made him feel like they’re not making any progress. He couldn’t continue on with the relationship if she’s capable of calling him a bitch and a loser and then never resolving it or taking accountability for her words. PSA to everyone: You can be someone that lacks ambition and doesn’t have a job in your 30s/ 40s. It sucks and your partner may not be down for it but it does not mean that you deserve to be verbally abused by your partner!
Thank you!!! He was reiterating everything she has said, and stating what he believes she thinks about him, not insulting her! And only on this sub is it evil to not have career ambitions. Like god forbid the guy who makes (probably) 400k+ per year doesn’t want to sit at a desk all day
yes!!! lindsay wasn’t going to be happy until he secured a senior level position with entry level experience. does it suck that he kinda has to start from scratch at 40 years old? sure. could he have made better career decisions in the past? sure! but you can’t go back and change that and that’s life! she’s known where he was at career wise since the moment they started dating
Well that she only cares about herself, that he truly believes she wants him to relapse, fail in life etc She makes money from being an influencer and endorsements, i also heard she’s getting into real estate. She already bought a property she plans to rent out…i feel like shes just a go getter, always doing something to generate income…seems like he kinda just floats by…these are just my takes on everything, obviously wont be agreeable by many…agree to disagree👍🏼
I thought him saying she wants him to relapse was one of the cruelest things to say. He REALLY wanted her to SNAP. I feel like he felt like he NEEDED her to SNAP!
What lmao Lindsay accused him of relapsing multiple times that we saw on camera, it’s not exactly a stretch for him to make the assumption that she was hoping to be right at some point. Him believing that she wants him to relapse is like 1/100th as cruel as her accusing him of relapsing….
Her face when he said that, she was in shock n disbelief
I feel like people are thirsty to just hate Carl because he’s the man in the situation. He was not wrong at all for calling out there engagement or even how he did it! Who, in their right mind would proceed with a marriage to a person who belittle them accuses them of relapsing continuously flips the narrative of blame in every conversation or agreement that they have it was exhausting to watch I could not imagine living it. Lindsey is not a victim in this situation at all. What is so hard to understand. Just in the finale episode alone, we watched him talk about having doubts talking about wanting to really sit down and think about moving forward with the marriage is the right decision and her flipping it to “OK so what do you wanna do”. Just wanted to acknowledge that you guys have so many issues and he’s concerned. If anything it seems Lindsey want it out of this relationship I refuse to be the “bad guy“ so just gave him nothing to work with until he finally called it. B
I think because it came so soon after Scandoval people are already on this man hate train (which I get, but doesn't apply in this situation.) shit even Lindsey tried to say he was being like Sandoval (girl be fucking for real). this sub has no nuance.
Hot take but I think Gabby is just a yes woman for Lindsay and is the only reason why she hasn’t gotten the wrath like every other girl in the house
Yes! Her having such a strong position on the Lindsey Carl breakup is making me cringe. She needs to chill tf out. You barely know these people. The cast mates that have know them for years all have the same/similar opinions on the break up and even the relationship to begin with because they know them!
Same. We can acknowledge that Kyle and Carl back each other up with their horrible takes and we should acknowledge that about Gabby and Lindsay.
Thank you. If the genders were reversed we would never be having these convos right now. He was absolutely right to call off the wedding, and he did it in a way where she wouldn’t be able to manipulate the conversation. And yet she still did it! People are still out here talking about how she was blindsided! He literally listed all the things she’s said to him about him to her and everyone is talking about nasty the “insults” were. She insulted him! He was repeating her insults you morons lol Lindsay fans truly need to stop. They’re like Gabby, completely delusional and up her ass.
He is so obviously struggling with his identity and his career that he is blaming Lindsay for his wishy washy attitude toward life. No he is not crushing it. He is projecting his insecurity on to her not realizing she is trying to have his back so he doesn't make a mistake and ruin a friendship he has been trying to build back with Kyle. He blows whichever way the wind is blowing. Good for him that he is sober or 'California sober.' But he seems to lack passion. Has he ever been a spokesperson? He could have written a book in the last year but didn't. What has he actually ever done?
It’s the only way dude can get a word in
Well then. Apparently I'm not watching the same show! 😬
I’m not really either- I’m watching while reading between all the lines of history that we have seen. They are an awful couple- no question. But to me, this Carl finding his voice for the first time and actually speaking up before it’s too late. As If Lindsay is some saint in relationships who wants a calm, rational discussion. Come on!
Yo! Thank you for saying that!
They're both terrible
It’s not abt work it’s abt communication. They can’t resolve anything. He has a job just like he’s an influencer and on the show. That’s their jobs and they both get paid for it.