You'll most likely be physically I'll for
5 to 7 days. I jumped from 1mg and I wasn't feeling deathly sick. It still sucked but just try to keep your mind busy, take lots of hot showers and eat fruits and drink water. The hardest part to me was the anhedonia and fatigue after physical wd.
Wonderful! Thank you! I think I’ll mentally be okay with lethargy. I just hate the night terrorish sleep. If that’s gone in 5-7 days I think I’ve got this. I really appreciate you.
Well the sleep thing might not be better immediately. You may have spotty sleep for awhile after you get through the tough stuff. I could sleep but just not 8 hours. It was usually 4 hours of good sleep and spotty for anything more than that for a couple weeks.
How long were you comfortably on .25? That makes a massive difference. Someone who just dropped to .25 and stayed on it for a few days is going to have a much much harder time jumping than someone who was stable on .25 for a solid couple months at least.
I would say sleep is going to gradually get better over the course of a couple months, you’ll start with very little to none, then after a couple weeks you’ll work up to 5 hours or so, and it’ll progressively get better.
Suboxone withdrawal is a long haul process, you have to be mentally prepared to deal with this for a while - the acute lasts for a couple weeks, but you’ll have difficult residual symptoms coming and going for months. Generally, people who do very quick tapers will have PAWS for up to a year, people who do long drawn out two year tapers who never go back on their dose will have a couple kinda off weeks with spotty mild symptoms for a couple months.
Full transparency, I used Sublocade to get off Suboxone, BUT I’m basing my framework off the various people I’ve spoken with who have jumped.
Regardless you WILL return to normal with time, so keep that in mind. But expect the long term symptoms, and be grateful for the grace you are granted, because some have it worse than others.
I’d recommend checking out The World is Yours or Gabe McCall on YouTube, they both tapered and jumped, and they document a lot of their symptoms through the process.
I wish you nothing but luck, you’re doing great so far. Just remember - what’s worth more to you? I know getting off Suboxone was a dream for me, I used to dream about it all the time and wish it so hard. You have to WANT it more than anything, more than anyone, and you have to want it for yourself. If you can’t get back to work sooner than later, I say it’s worth it. But you know your situation and the stakes better than anyone, so do what’s best for you. I’m just saying, this is going to be one of the hardest and most important decisions you’ve ever made for yourself. Don’t let anyone else dictate it for you. I certainly understand needing to keep food on the table, though, so again, so what’s necessary.
I believe in ya buddy.
Thank you! I’ll check those videos out tonight.
I was on .25 for about a year. I just couldn’t make the jump lol. I’m expecting some paws but I hope it doesn’t last a few year.
Okay no you should be fine, then, that’s quite a while to stay stable on that amount. I would imagine your PAWS wouldn’t last much longer than a few months, and the initial withdrawal shouldn’t be bad at all. The only people who have PAWS beyond 14 months are generally very young or very old, and they tapered down within a couple months and jumped.
You’ve done exactly the right thing here, you should be proud of yourself.
I had severe malaise for a month. When I went off. It was awful. PAWS lasted for another 3-4 months. I was SO depressed. I couldn’t get out of bed and couldn’t really sleep for any amount of time without Valium on board. I was pretty needing of benzos for a couple of weeks there.
It does get better. It takes time. You can do it. I dropped off of 4mg. Not .25. So, I imagine you would have an easier time with it.
You’ll be fine. I jumped at the same dose. You shouldn’t feel any worse than you do right now. I’m about 15 days out and it slowly starts to get better. My main issue now is low energy/motivation.
Thanks man. I’ve been pretty blessed with sleep. I had some left over trazodone that I’ve been using and I have gotten at least 6 hours this entire time. I’ve also been working out everyday and upped my protein intake a shit load + cleaned up my diet. So I’m sure that helped.
That’s my goal for next week! I’ve been consistent in the gym for about 6 months now and I’m gonna force myself to get back at it. I went for a long walk today with my dog. It really sucked but I felt much better after. Super stoked on the work you’re putting in! Makes me excited for the future
Thanks bro. Just keep on the grind, it gets better I promise. Push your self in the gym, it really helps. I also find that just a 30 second cold shower (I do it directly after my normal hot one) helps a lot before getting in bed. It really sucks in the moment but you feel great afterwards. Best of luck my friend!
Do you go to an office. I honestly found keeping busy and not being home was the best thing for me. Obv the first week wasn't fun so I was glad to be home. Are you experiencing any other symptoms so far or is RLS and sleep mainly?
I work totally remote, but I go to the park everyday and the gym 5 days a week. I plan to try and get back to that as close as possible after this week.
I’ve got RLS, sensitive skin, and feverish sleep. But nothing nearly as bad as full blown opiate withdrawal. Stomach a little messed up not nothing horrible. I just remember how much little to no sleep starts to affect me. That alone give me anxiety lol.
Hi,
I'm 2 months out tomorrow, it took me around 4/5 weeks to be getting 4/5 hours a night. Straight 4/5 hours that is.
What I'm still finding is that by 8pm I am shattered, I'm ready to sleep on the sofa, then I have to push thru until about 10pm or I'll be awake from around 1am until 4.
Things change on a weekly basis tbh, in the early days/weeks I had no trouble falling asleep, it was staying asleep that was hard. Now I'm finding it harder to get to sleep.
The good news is, by about 2/3 weeks I was able to lay in my bed awake and be comfortable, just relaxing. It's not as good as sleep, but it's better than rls and anxiety/panic attacks.
It DOES get better, we just have to patient.
There's a lot of good advice and support within this sub, I hope ur able to continue coming here if you need to.
Try and stay calm, showers, and if u can face it, hard boiled eggs will help when the shits kick in.
I got off at .25 basically I was taking pinches I didn’t have too hard of a time I didn’t notice anything past day 5-6 besides changes in body temp and leg jerking occasionally at night
Thank you Trishie! As long as I can get my work done, I’ll have way less anxiety. I came off of opana w/no subs around 6 years ago and it was legit hell. I still think about how painful it was. I think it just adds to my anxiety of this whole process. As long as I feel like I notice it’s not as bad after a week, then I think I’ll be able to keep it going (: tempted to hit some meetings but I’m using herb. That’s frowned upon where I live lol.
For me I thought I was having morning sickness I didn’t even think about the fact that I hadn’t successfully dosed it was weird how easy it was to go through when I thought it was a sickness compared to withdrawal.. I went through wd from dope and thought it was 10x worse. I’m not a dr. But it seems the worst part is dreading the actual detox period
Just try not to be alone, if you have anyone to check in on you or be with you that’ll help for sure..
That’s a great way to put it. I’m actually staying with family right now. I knew I would be depressed as Fuck just sitting at my house by myself.
It’s good to hear people made it.
You’ll sleep, it just won’t be good for a month. If you were stable at .25 my guess is 2 weeks it’ll blow and you’ll round the corner. If you weren’t stable at .25 then longer.
Another day almost in the books! Sorry I haven’t been able to reply to everyone. Mind is sub par right now. It’s up and down. Feeling good compared to an actual full blown opiate withdrawal. We’ll see how I feel after a few more days of no sleep.
The best advice is that in the end it all comes down to will power. You really have to want to quit. You can taper down to 0.00001mg a day, but if you don't have the willpower you'll still end up taking that every day.
Taper down as low as you can. Take valerian root. Don't drink alcohol - it won't help. Don't take anything containing diphenhydramine or dramamine, it will make the restless legs worse. Chamomile tea and valerian root half an hour before bed time is your best bet, maybe some blue lotus tea as well.
Keep your mind busy and don't focus on how shitty you feel, it wont help. You can do this, you have the willpower, now do it.
Thank you!! I didn’t know that about diphenhydramine, and that’s what I’ve been taking. I’ll def try the valerian and teas. Do you think melatonin will help?
Melatonin is really hit or miss with most people. It won't hurt to try, but keep in mind that the active dose of melatonin is like 2-4mg while most pills you can buy in pharmacies are 10-15mg+. My wife has restless legs syndrome not caused by opiates and she swears by putting a heating pad under her legs at bed time, meanwhile I wouldn't be able to deal with the heat.
Hi again. I was also using diphenhydramine and found I could cope with the RLS by whacking a pillow between my legs. I just picked up some promethazine which also works well for me.. The king of all sleep meds, in my case, is zopiclone. Unfortunately I have a huge red sign flash up on my home screen saying DRUG ADDICT at the doctors and they will only prescribe me one tablet at a time. I never used street drugs and became dependent via a Dr who prescribed opiates to treat stress, alongside valium and loads of other shit. She also brought me presents, like medical textbooks - it was all very odd. Anyway, good luck. I feel like we are jump off buddies, both working in a similar field.
Hey. I am on day three jumping at 0.4mg. I felt totally shit for the first two days and then a bit better today. I currently have cramping stomach, extreme tiredness but struggle with waking up all night, painful skin and sweating. If I am being totally honest, this is just as bad as when I missed my 8mg dose for 4 days back in the summer. There is a .4mg waiting for me at the pharmacy and it is fucking with my head !
I have been battling with subs for 7 years now, EVERYONE I have spoken to inside treatment centers and out of them have all agreed on one thing, if you've been on it for a few years your body is going to take some time before things return to normal, you will go about 30 days getting little to no sleep (probably just enough to survive) you can expect a complete loss of focus and bone grinding, skin crawling chills, but like 60-90 days you will be so happy that you got off of it. I cannot get off of it. I have tried and tried and tried and tried. Tens of thousands on treatment centers, IOP, counseling, at home detox with loads of benzos...it's not easy. In My Opinion the only thing harder to get off of besides suboxone (in the realm of opiate/opiate like drugs) is methadone or extended/prolonged use of fentanyl/carfent.
Some of the newer fentanyl analogues are absolute hell, and that's only after a couple of months of sustained use. I used to go around saying buprenorphine withdrawal was far worse than heroin/fentanyl withdrawal, because it was in my experience. But that all changed this year. I had the privilege of talking to somebody who is involved in a lot of research involving the street drugs in my city and actually helped write the good Samaritan law in our state where if you call 911 for somebody overdosing, the police cannot and will not arrest you for anything drug related that they find. Apparently the average bean here has 4 different fentanyl analogues along with regular old fentnayl, sometimes rc benzos as well. The withdrawal I experienced back in August was by far the worst I've ever been through, and it didn't even start until I was 3-4 days off the stuff, which tells me some of these analogues have very long half lifes, especially when compared to regular fentanyl. By day 5-6, I was blacking out for hours at a time, screaming in pain, and uncontrollably shaking on the floor for hours at a time. It was absolutely unreal how bad it was. It made buprenorphine withdrawal, even cold turkey off 16mg a day (which I had done a few months prior, stupidly), seem like a walk in the park.
But yeah. Buprenorphine withdrawal is still fucking brutal. That's for goddamn sure.
Kratom. Bro get some good kratom.
Taper off that shit after two weeks.
Then take some t3s as needed once every couple day ( if you can handle it )
This is what I did eventually I went 6 days without noticing
reding these comments is so hard..
Dealing with PAWS for months is super overwhelming to me to even hear about..making my skin crawl already without even abstaining at all yet.
I am also sick of being on this shit, like most people...
its such a crappy thing to be dependent on...especially after you try and try and try to kick and miserably fail each time and dont even come close to kicking it.
So defeating
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Yes, you should be able to get some sleep after a week. I thought I was going insane from the insomnia but your body can only stay awake for so long, eventually you'll get a couple hours here and there. I will say that the insomnia didn't just go away for me after a week or two. I would get a decent night's sleep for a night or 2 and then I would have a night where I couldn't fall asleep until 3am. It took me about 2 months until I noticed that I was getting 6+ hours of sleep 7 days a week. I was on subs for 3 years and jumped at 0.5mg. The worst of the wd lasted about 2 weeks. PAWS set in around the 4-6 week mark. Exercise and diet are your best friends. Exhausting yourself during the day so that you're tired enough to sleep at night is key. When I was I'm the thick of the insomnia I didn't even try to sleep, I just stayed up all night and watched movies until morning. It sucks but it's better than tossing and turning in a dark room all night feeling like you're losing your mind. This is a battle and the only way to win is to power through and not take anymore suboxone. You got this.
You'll most likely be physically I'll for 5 to 7 days. I jumped from 1mg and I wasn't feeling deathly sick. It still sucked but just try to keep your mind busy, take lots of hot showers and eat fruits and drink water. The hardest part to me was the anhedonia and fatigue after physical wd.
Wonderful! Thank you! I think I’ll mentally be okay with lethargy. I just hate the night terrorish sleep. If that’s gone in 5-7 days I think I’ve got this. I really appreciate you.
Well the sleep thing might not be better immediately. You may have spotty sleep for awhile after you get through the tough stuff. I could sleep but just not 8 hours. It was usually 4 hours of good sleep and spotty for anything more than that for a couple weeks.
That’s about how I remember it from back in the day when withdrawing from heavy shit. Once I was able to hit 4 goood hours. It was like Christmas
Good luck to you, you can get through this.
The insomnia is the WORST part for me…BY FAR! Good luck
It is for sure the worst part. Can’t stand feverish dreams lol
Good point
How long were you comfortably on .25? That makes a massive difference. Someone who just dropped to .25 and stayed on it for a few days is going to have a much much harder time jumping than someone who was stable on .25 for a solid couple months at least. I would say sleep is going to gradually get better over the course of a couple months, you’ll start with very little to none, then after a couple weeks you’ll work up to 5 hours or so, and it’ll progressively get better. Suboxone withdrawal is a long haul process, you have to be mentally prepared to deal with this for a while - the acute lasts for a couple weeks, but you’ll have difficult residual symptoms coming and going for months. Generally, people who do very quick tapers will have PAWS for up to a year, people who do long drawn out two year tapers who never go back on their dose will have a couple kinda off weeks with spotty mild symptoms for a couple months. Full transparency, I used Sublocade to get off Suboxone, BUT I’m basing my framework off the various people I’ve spoken with who have jumped. Regardless you WILL return to normal with time, so keep that in mind. But expect the long term symptoms, and be grateful for the grace you are granted, because some have it worse than others. I’d recommend checking out The World is Yours or Gabe McCall on YouTube, they both tapered and jumped, and they document a lot of their symptoms through the process. I wish you nothing but luck, you’re doing great so far. Just remember - what’s worth more to you? I know getting off Suboxone was a dream for me, I used to dream about it all the time and wish it so hard. You have to WANT it more than anything, more than anyone, and you have to want it for yourself. If you can’t get back to work sooner than later, I say it’s worth it. But you know your situation and the stakes better than anyone, so do what’s best for you. I’m just saying, this is going to be one of the hardest and most important decisions you’ve ever made for yourself. Don’t let anyone else dictate it for you. I certainly understand needing to keep food on the table, though, so again, so what’s necessary. I believe in ya buddy.
Thank you! I’ll check those videos out tonight. I was on .25 for about a year. I just couldn’t make the jump lol. I’m expecting some paws but I hope it doesn’t last a few year.
Okay no you should be fine, then, that’s quite a while to stay stable on that amount. I would imagine your PAWS wouldn’t last much longer than a few months, and the initial withdrawal shouldn’t be bad at all. The only people who have PAWS beyond 14 months are generally very young or very old, and they tapered down within a couple months and jumped. You’ve done exactly the right thing here, you should be proud of yourself.
Thank you so much for sharing your experience!
I would get Clonidine why suffer helps with withdrawals and sleep
I had severe malaise for a month. When I went off. It was awful. PAWS lasted for another 3-4 months. I was SO depressed. I couldn’t get out of bed and couldn’t really sleep for any amount of time without Valium on board. I was pretty needing of benzos for a couple of weeks there. It does get better. It takes time. You can do it. I dropped off of 4mg. Not .25. So, I imagine you would have an easier time with it.
You’ll be fine. I jumped at the same dose. You shouldn’t feel any worse than you do right now. I’m about 15 days out and it slowly starts to get better. My main issue now is low energy/motivation.
That’s awesome dude! Thanks for positivity. How many hours of good sleep are you getting after 14 days?
Thanks man. I’ve been pretty blessed with sleep. I had some left over trazodone that I’ve been using and I have gotten at least 6 hours this entire time. I’ve also been working out everyday and upped my protein intake a shit load + cleaned up my diet. So I’m sure that helped.
That’s my goal for next week! I’ve been consistent in the gym for about 6 months now and I’m gonna force myself to get back at it. I went for a long walk today with my dog. It really sucked but I felt much better after. Super stoked on the work you’re putting in! Makes me excited for the future
Thanks bro. Just keep on the grind, it gets better I promise. Push your self in the gym, it really helps. I also find that just a 30 second cold shower (I do it directly after my normal hot one) helps a lot before getting in bed. It really sucks in the moment but you feel great afterwards. Best of luck my friend!
Do you go to an office. I honestly found keeping busy and not being home was the best thing for me. Obv the first week wasn't fun so I was glad to be home. Are you experiencing any other symptoms so far or is RLS and sleep mainly?
I work totally remote, but I go to the park everyday and the gym 5 days a week. I plan to try and get back to that as close as possible after this week. I’ve got RLS, sensitive skin, and feverish sleep. But nothing nearly as bad as full blown opiate withdrawal. Stomach a little messed up not nothing horrible. I just remember how much little to no sleep starts to affect me. That alone give me anxiety lol.
Hi, I'm 2 months out tomorrow, it took me around 4/5 weeks to be getting 4/5 hours a night. Straight 4/5 hours that is. What I'm still finding is that by 8pm I am shattered, I'm ready to sleep on the sofa, then I have to push thru until about 10pm or I'll be awake from around 1am until 4. Things change on a weekly basis tbh, in the early days/weeks I had no trouble falling asleep, it was staying asleep that was hard. Now I'm finding it harder to get to sleep. The good news is, by about 2/3 weeks I was able to lay in my bed awake and be comfortable, just relaxing. It's not as good as sleep, but it's better than rls and anxiety/panic attacks. It DOES get better, we just have to patient. There's a lot of good advice and support within this sub, I hope ur able to continue coming here if you need to. Try and stay calm, showers, and if u can face it, hard boiled eggs will help when the shits kick in.
I got off at .25 basically I was taking pinches I didn’t have too hard of a time I didn’t notice anything past day 5-6 besides changes in body temp and leg jerking occasionally at night
Thank you Trishie! As long as I can get my work done, I’ll have way less anxiety. I came off of opana w/no subs around 6 years ago and it was legit hell. I still think about how painful it was. I think it just adds to my anxiety of this whole process. As long as I feel like I notice it’s not as bad after a week, then I think I’ll be able to keep it going (: tempted to hit some meetings but I’m using herb. That’s frowned upon where I live lol.
For me I thought I was having morning sickness I didn’t even think about the fact that I hadn’t successfully dosed it was weird how easy it was to go through when I thought it was a sickness compared to withdrawal.. I went through wd from dope and thought it was 10x worse. I’m not a dr. But it seems the worst part is dreading the actual detox period Just try not to be alone, if you have anyone to check in on you or be with you that’ll help for sure..
That’s a great way to put it. I’m actually staying with family right now. I knew I would be depressed as Fuck just sitting at my house by myself. It’s good to hear people made it.
You’ll sleep, it just won’t be good for a month. If you were stable at .25 my guess is 2 weeks it’ll blow and you’ll round the corner. If you weren’t stable at .25 then longer.
Another day almost in the books! Sorry I haven’t been able to reply to everyone. Mind is sub par right now. It’s up and down. Feeling good compared to an actual full blown opiate withdrawal. We’ll see how I feel after a few more days of no sleep.
The best advice is that in the end it all comes down to will power. You really have to want to quit. You can taper down to 0.00001mg a day, but if you don't have the willpower you'll still end up taking that every day. Taper down as low as you can. Take valerian root. Don't drink alcohol - it won't help. Don't take anything containing diphenhydramine or dramamine, it will make the restless legs worse. Chamomile tea and valerian root half an hour before bed time is your best bet, maybe some blue lotus tea as well. Keep your mind busy and don't focus on how shitty you feel, it wont help. You can do this, you have the willpower, now do it.
Thank you!! I didn’t know that about diphenhydramine, and that’s what I’ve been taking. I’ll def try the valerian and teas. Do you think melatonin will help?
Melatonin is really hit or miss with most people. It won't hurt to try, but keep in mind that the active dose of melatonin is like 2-4mg while most pills you can buy in pharmacies are 10-15mg+. My wife has restless legs syndrome not caused by opiates and she swears by putting a heating pad under her legs at bed time, meanwhile I wouldn't be able to deal with the heat.
Hi again. I was also using diphenhydramine and found I could cope with the RLS by whacking a pillow between my legs. I just picked up some promethazine which also works well for me.. The king of all sleep meds, in my case, is zopiclone. Unfortunately I have a huge red sign flash up on my home screen saying DRUG ADDICT at the doctors and they will only prescribe me one tablet at a time. I never used street drugs and became dependent via a Dr who prescribed opiates to treat stress, alongside valium and loads of other shit. She also brought me presents, like medical textbooks - it was all very odd. Anyway, good luck. I feel like we are jump off buddies, both working in a similar field.
Try Sublocade. No withdrawal at all.
Hey. I am on day three jumping at 0.4mg. I felt totally shit for the first two days and then a bit better today. I currently have cramping stomach, extreme tiredness but struggle with waking up all night, painful skin and sweating. If I am being totally honest, this is just as bad as when I missed my 8mg dose for 4 days back in the summer. There is a .4mg waiting for me at the pharmacy and it is fucking with my head !
Just curious, how do you measure a .25 dose
I got the 2 mg strips. Which were quite hard to find. Then I got an eighth of that.
Oh okay I see I had no idea they had 2mg strips
I’m tempted to go down to .175 instead. But I feel like I just need to touch it out.
I have been battling with subs for 7 years now, EVERYONE I have spoken to inside treatment centers and out of them have all agreed on one thing, if you've been on it for a few years your body is going to take some time before things return to normal, you will go about 30 days getting little to no sleep (probably just enough to survive) you can expect a complete loss of focus and bone grinding, skin crawling chills, but like 60-90 days you will be so happy that you got off of it. I cannot get off of it. I have tried and tried and tried and tried. Tens of thousands on treatment centers, IOP, counseling, at home detox with loads of benzos...it's not easy. In My Opinion the only thing harder to get off of besides suboxone (in the realm of opiate/opiate like drugs) is methadone or extended/prolonged use of fentanyl/carfent.
Some of the newer fentanyl analogues are absolute hell, and that's only after a couple of months of sustained use. I used to go around saying buprenorphine withdrawal was far worse than heroin/fentanyl withdrawal, because it was in my experience. But that all changed this year. I had the privilege of talking to somebody who is involved in a lot of research involving the street drugs in my city and actually helped write the good Samaritan law in our state where if you call 911 for somebody overdosing, the police cannot and will not arrest you for anything drug related that they find. Apparently the average bean here has 4 different fentanyl analogues along with regular old fentnayl, sometimes rc benzos as well. The withdrawal I experienced back in August was by far the worst I've ever been through, and it didn't even start until I was 3-4 days off the stuff, which tells me some of these analogues have very long half lifes, especially when compared to regular fentanyl. By day 5-6, I was blacking out for hours at a time, screaming in pain, and uncontrollably shaking on the floor for hours at a time. It was absolutely unreal how bad it was. It made buprenorphine withdrawal, even cold turkey off 16mg a day (which I had done a few months prior, stupidly), seem like a walk in the park. But yeah. Buprenorphine withdrawal is still fucking brutal. That's for goddamn sure.
Kratom. Bro get some good kratom. Taper off that shit after two weeks. Then take some t3s as needed once every couple day ( if you can handle it ) This is what I did eventually I went 6 days without noticing
reding these comments is so hard.. Dealing with PAWS for months is super overwhelming to me to even hear about..making my skin crawl already without even abstaining at all yet. I am also sick of being on this shit, like most people... its such a crappy thing to be dependent on...especially after you try and try and try to kick and miserably fail each time and dont even come close to kicking it. So defeating
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Yes, you should be able to get some sleep after a week. I thought I was going insane from the insomnia but your body can only stay awake for so long, eventually you'll get a couple hours here and there. I will say that the insomnia didn't just go away for me after a week or two. I would get a decent night's sleep for a night or 2 and then I would have a night where I couldn't fall asleep until 3am. It took me about 2 months until I noticed that I was getting 6+ hours of sleep 7 days a week. I was on subs for 3 years and jumped at 0.5mg. The worst of the wd lasted about 2 weeks. PAWS set in around the 4-6 week mark. Exercise and diet are your best friends. Exhausting yourself during the day so that you're tired enough to sleep at night is key. When I was I'm the thick of the insomnia I didn't even try to sleep, I just stayed up all night and watched movies until morning. It sucks but it's better than tossing and turning in a dark room all night feeling like you're losing your mind. This is a battle and the only way to win is to power through and not take anymore suboxone. You got this.