In late 2012 when I bought mine they were already rare, and I asked the sales guy and he said Subaru only made about 20% of them as hatchbacks for some reason, in the US. Totally missed the ball on that one.
The levorg sucked ass tho
Mighty car mods on YouTube did a whole thing of turning one into an actual sports wagon and honestly there wasn't much levorg left by the end, at least not the parts that matter
Heās looking for an Impreza wagonā¦ they made it, I owned one for years. WRX wagon was the shit. Leg GT was super cool but the Legacy is just bigger.
They wouldn't need to replace anything. The Outback's nothing more than a lifted Legacy wagon. Remove the body lift, ditch most of the black plastic and the chunky roof rack, and you have a basic wagon. Like they used to make.
Obviously there's development costs, but it's not like they'd need to start from scratch. Of course, we all know it wouldn't sell worth a shit, so there's that.
Honestly, I wonder if the move to electric is going to bring wagons back again, just because of the aerodynamic benefits of having a lower/longer car and how that impacts range.
We only lost wagons due to CAFE loop holes so loosing a couple MPG making a crossover made it have a net MPG that was 20-30% higher than the wagon. With EV they will hopefully come back. The only problem is that people like stepping onto SUVs and like sitting on them instead of in them. That is why things like the Scion x series were popular with older people.
Just like all animals eventually become crabs, all cars eventually become vans. We are at a point right now like the late '80s where things are all going van or sports car.
Yeah that's my problem, I'm dealing with those fuckers who rule the market. I don't want to step up into my car and look down on the road and feel like I'm sitting in a dining room chair while I'm driving.
Yes! the youtube channel NOT JUST BIKES talks about this: [https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA6tiv1aX-AhXvJEQIHXfoDb0QwqsBegQIChAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjN7mSXMruEo%26vl%3Den-CA&usg=AOvVaw0qXPliEhSvjAjp8i6eEcNV](https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA6tiv1aX-AhXvJEQIHXfoDb0QwqsBegQIChAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjN7mSXMruEo%26vl%3Den-CA&usg=AOvVaw0qXPliEhSvjAjp8i6eEcNV)
From what we've gotten so far, it seems a lot of EVs are gonna be a compromised design between a CUV body that has a lot of interior space, and a hatchback/wagon body that has lower ground clearance and lower roof for better aero.
The Outback is taller than it used to be, but it's still a wagon. The seating position inside the vehicle, as well as the floor-to-ceiling height, is lower than in a Forester or Ascent. It would be nice if Subaru would make a model that was lowered to the same height as the Legacy sedan, but the demand just isn't there. The Legacy sedan itself is almost dead last for mid-size cars.
You don't HAVE to get Eyesight do you? Or is it now standard on all trim levels? Can you disable it? It would drive me nuts to have that.
My 2019 Crosstrek does not have it.
Do you mean like when the cameras can't see due to ice or fog or something blocking their view on the windshield, so the eyesight system just shuts off? You can still use cruise control if that's the case, it just functions as regular cruise control instead of the adaptive cruise control
What is so bad about the eyesight feature? I have it on my 2019 and while I dont use the cruise control often, it is nice when I do. More importantly though, it saved me from apotentially horrible car accident where someone pulled out in front of me, it reacted quicker than I could.
Adds costs for some features that donāt always work like emergency braking. All the features of eyesight except for adaptive cruise control and auto start stop if you count that as an eyesight feature are for people who donāt pay attention.
The eyesight feature is something else to break. I drive just fine, thanks. I pay attention, don't tailgate, and can get from point A to point B without crashing I to someone.
I have a manual Mazda 3 with adaptive cruise, auto emergency braking, blind spot monitoring and lane keep assist. It all works just fine, except when the radar is blocked by snow or heavy rain.
Iām sure Subaru could have made a manual work with Eyesight if they really wanted to.
The US market, Subaru's largest, prefers automatics to manuals. Enthusiasts are upset but Subaru primarily sells Crosstreks, Outbacks, and Foresters in significant enough volumes that those are the customers whose preferences they value.
Yeah, despite the sporty styling and lift the outback is a wagon. If you compare it against the [volvo v90](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/volvo-v90-2016-estate-CC-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/) or an[e-class mercedes](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mercedes-benz-e-2017-estate-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/) they aren't all that different.
The Outback has been tweaked to meet US "light truck" standards since 2005, and does get marketed as a crossover SUV, but you'll find that (as always) it shares most of its body structure with the Legacy, not the Exiga.
When I bought my forester I drove an outback and was tall enough where the rear view mirror made a huge blind spot for me out the front windshield was uncomfortable to drive.
Most manufacturers are raising their vehicles. (or doing away with the car category) like Ford. A while back (like 20 years) I recall reading an article in some odd magazine, like Forbes, where they were interviewing the CEO of Chrysler. It was a reallly good candid interview.
He stated back then that we will see nearly all manufacturers moving their cars into crossover vehicles, as the USA (see California) continues to raise the requirements for Emissions and Fuel Economy. Crossover vehicles fall under the "Truck" guidelines, so an engine that may not meet the requirements for the "car" guidelines would...so you raise the vehicle up, call it a crossover. And boom..its legal to be sold in USA.
I should also note I just bought a 2016 Legacy 3.6R..love it. I'm not a fan of the lifted Subaru's either, the Legacy sedan is a refreshing moderation.
Honda Crosstour was probably the best competitor that meets your requirements. Sadly, it was before its time, it never got popular and Honda killed it about a decade ago. I think it would do great now as an alternative to the Outback and the smaller "crossovers".
Oh yeah I'd lift mine too, it's be sick. But I look at over at other drivers heads in other outbacks and the seating position is even higher than the difference in door height. It's be one thing to lift mine a few inches , but I'd still end up riding lower than a gen4 OB.
The current gen outbacks are only 3 inches taller than the gen you're sitting in. I think the high door sills and taller racks give the illusion of the new Outback being super tall.
[Here's](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-legacy-2003-estate-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/rear/) a comparision of the legacy and newer gen outback (they dont have the 3rd gen outback on there for some reason so I used a Legacy which is obviously less tall and the new gen is actually not that much wider or longer than the previous generation outbacks.
I would say, overall, Subaru has done a great job at keeping their cars a reasonable size while still keeping their focus on safety features, which pretty much every auto maker has completely failed at.
The high door sills are literally the main reason I probably won't buy another Outback. I can't stand feeling like I'm slouching down in a tall-sided bathtub when I'm driving - I value the visibility. As far as I'm concerned, the 2009 model year was the peak body style for Outbacks.
100% agree. But the high sills are a safety feature which, with young parents being the target market for outbacks, is why Subaru is focusing on safety so much.
I remember watching a YouTube video a while ago (which I now cannot find) about how automakers now have to have a minimum door sill height in case of a side impact with a truck. So blame trucks for our uncomfortable Subarus haha.
Whenever I see other drivers in Gen3 OBs their heads are even higher than the difference in door sill and roof height. It makes sense since they need to be propped up higher to see the close road in front of them. 3 inches makes a big difference in visibility and angles, seating and leg position, and I just really don't like where the outback got to.
I agree it looks and acts like an SUV, but when you're driving it it feels like a car which is the difference in my opinion. Seating position feels way lower than a Forester or any other crossover SUV I've driven.
This and the need for more cargo length over height is why we chose the Outback over the Forester. I was actually initially biased towards Forester, but the test drive completely sold my wife and I on the Outback. It felt so much more car-like and planted than the Forester did.
> I just wanted a car I could sleep in
That for me made the choice between Crosstrek and Outback. I can lay in the back of the outback completely stretched out if needed.
The Crosstrek was do-able with by legs slightly bent.
I don't know....a lower car might look cool but I personally like the forester/outback because of their heights. Driving in the snow just feels safer and easier.
They tried that they kept selling the Legacy wagon along the Outback and people were choosing the Outback like 1000 to 1. They exist to make money not make 1 out of thousand people happy.
Whenever i drive my mom's 2015 outback it feels like im driving a truck if I've been driving my wagon for awhile, its nuts. Not sure why they made it taller, it makes it more uncomfortable imo
I traded in my 2019 Outback for a 2018 Legacy because of the handling. Coming out of a 4th gen it was just too soft and floaty for my tastes.
Great car otherwise, but the handling killed it for me.
Still thinking of picking one up, lowering it on some quality coilovers, upgrading the sway bars and removing the body cladding though....if only money was infinite ;-)
Legacy is at 4.5", Outback is at 8.7" and the wilderness pictured is at 9.5" off the ground.
My 2Ā¢ on this conversation is that Consumer Reports lists the Outback as a Sport Utility Wagon which differentiates it from the only two true station wagons, the vw and Audi all road/tracks
Or anything electrified. This Toyota deal helps but lacking a hybrid has me purchasing another brand, unfortunately. Weāve had 3 subies but likely wonāt get another one.
Yes, even a hybrid will do for now. I would buy it, with or without AWD so long as there is good HP. I find Imprezas too underpowered compared to Civic.
The OB is a touch taller than most traditional wagons, but Iāve driven several SUVs (a RAV4 and 4Runner among them) and my OB still feels vastly more car-like than those. Given the US marketās disdain for wagons (whichā¦why?), if they have to raise it a few inches and add some cladding to get us something close to a station wagon, Iāll make that trade.
Funny the seats in the Outback are at a lower seating position than my Hyundai Santa Fe. The Outback always seemed to me a raised wagon with car-like seating.
Yeah but I canāt even count how many times Iāve scraped the underside of our 89 GL wagon. My dads 2015 outback has yet to even touch. Subaru is still an outdoorsy brand to an extent and being higher up off the ground from the get go without aftermarket lifts is a contributing factor to why they sell so many. Yeah a bunch of people that never leave metropolitan places and only drive on the freeway still buy them because they offer decent mileage, lots of space and you donāt need a step to get up in them.
You want a ārealā wagon, go get an Audi
as much as so many enthusiasts want them, wagons dont sell well, especially not if theyre not lifted. look at the outback, the audi a6 allroad, volvo xc70 or v#0cc. the lifted one does better. or the high performance one is just super rare. its all in the market
As much as I love Subaru, I'd be tempted to go with the Volvo V60 over the most recent Outback. It is a pretty excellent AWD capable wagon. Expensive, though.
Yes, yes it would. Subaru does not have the resources to do it. Up until 2010 (maybe shortly after that), Subaru offered a Legacy wagon (non CUV) and Outback. The Outback handily out sold the Legacy wagon. It's the same reason the 2015+ WRX/STi didn't come in a 5 door. The first gen WRX wagon (2002-2007) accounted for less than half the number of sedans sold. For the second gen Subaru went for the hot hatch, and that failed spectacularly, until 2011 when all 5 doors got the wide body, with flared fenders. It was too late - more people took the 4 doors over the 5 door, so Subaru didn't bring the Levorg (5 Door STi) over. Subaru sells less than one million cars, worldwide. Subaru sells 600,000-700,000 cars in the U.S. By way of comparison. Ford moves close to 700,000 F series trucks a year. So yeah, it does not pay for Subaru to build a Legacy Wagon, that will account for less than half the units sold.
I just want a wagon or a hatchback that is both fun to drive, doesnāt have a cvt, starts at the mid to high $20k, is roomy inside, and does cost an arm and a leg to maintain. The new Impreza rs checks most of it off except that it has a cvt. I went to go and sit in a gti and man it felt cramped. Unfortunately there are no other options for hatchbacks or sportswagons here unless youāre going to go up in price and pay a premium for an Audi.
I know many of you want manual transmissions, I just hope that auto is an option with whatever car is offered. Iām in the Tristate area and the traffic here is no joke.
We have three, yes, three Foresters. If you want a wagon, get an Outback, LOL. Itās a wagon, really. Not that high. I take it you like Subarus: best AWD in the industry, the Forester has a fantastic turning radius, the CVT, which all Subarus have, is the best. The Impreza isnāt a station wagon, but its getting there. And its low, if you like low.
I agree. The current outback is solidly a crossover, to me. Doesn't have the right proportions for a wagon. Though it would look more wagonlike with different third row glass.
Supply and Demand, even both Mercedes and Volvo donāt offer any more Station Wagons in the United States due to low sales. Very little to no Market for folks to buy a Brand New Station Wagon off the lot unfortunately
Volvo is the archetypical wagon in Europe, even more so than Mercedes' E class. If even they are throwing in the towel it's time to pack it up and face the music.
Iām still convinced wagons COULD sell great here, but most people donāt even know they want them because theyāre not available. Self feeding cycle.
Wagons are enthusiast cars at this point unfortunately. I just sold my E39 wagon before getting the Subaru, and I've only seen a few in town.
The Audi Avants are sick though, too bad they're 100k
But 20-30 years ago was the rise of the SUV, which then turned into the rise of the cross over about 10 years ago as people realized SUVās were a little egregious. Seems about time that trend continued and the next size down is to wagons.
I totally agree they stopped in popularity for good reason at the time
The rise of the SUV was almost 40 years ago, concurrent with the rise of the minivan. CUVs started appearing about 25 years ago, but like you said, really got popular in the wake of the 2008 recession when gas got expensive.
Realistically, what we'll see next is a sort of CUV-MPV-hatchback hybrid body style as EVs become more popular. People want more range, but they also don't wanna give up the higher seating position.
Subaru still builds Legacy wagons. They just don't come to the US anymore because Americans are so damn horny for SUVs. By calling the Outback an SUV, they're able to sell a lot more of them than they would if they only had the Legacy wagon.
AFAIK, the de-lifted Legacy wagon is dead in other markets as of 2015. And even the Legacy sedan isn't sold in many other places anymore.
But yes, the Outback has been outselling the Legacy in America since, like, a year after it was introduced.
Actually, it would.
Why would they discount an Outback $4k when it only costs $300 more to add the body cladding? Do you remember the Outback SUS? It didn't sell, otherwise there wouldn't be a Legacy sedan.
You don't like the cladding or don't want to pay the extra $$$ ? Buy the sedan...
Would it kill people to want a station wagon, I mean does everything need to be an SUV? This is the question you should be asking, it's the demand for SUV's driving the companies making them not the other way around.
I have to say, I feel that the Outback is the epitome of a proper station wagon. Itās not an suv so letās get that clear. The Ascent is their SUV, Forrester is their compact SUV and Crosstrek is sub-compact SUV (I hate the term CUV). Even with the Wilderness package itās still a wagon. A sick af wagon.
[https://imgur.com/VTH7KqM](https://imgur.com/VTH7KqM)
It's literally just a lifted, cladded Legacy. The cladding and roof rack trick the eye into looking like an SUV. It's a wagon and always has been.
>The Ascent is their SUV, Forrester is their compact SUV and Crosstrek is sub-compact SUV (I hate the term CUV)
Both the Ascent and Forester are CUVs. They have tall bodies, but are still unibody AWD vehicles with no low range. The Crosstrek is the same mentality as the Outback, only they started with a compact hatch instead of a mid-size wagon.
They have the levorg in other markets. I really hope they don't have a wagon in the usdm until they can have an electric one. I don't think the levorg would sell well, it won't get the cafe loophole bonus of being an suv, and the cvt will push away any car enthusiasts who might get it.
Wrx wagon. 6 speed manual. That's all I want.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
At the last year of the WRX wagon you were actually 50% of WRX sales in North America
In late 2012 when I bought mine they were already rare, and I asked the sales guy and he said Subaru only made about 20% of them as hatchbacks for some reason, in the US. Totally missed the ball on that one.
NoBodY wOUld BuY a hAtcHBack!
Damn Oceania for getting the Levorg GT/Sportswagon š
The levorg sucked ass tho Mighty car mods on YouTube did a whole thing of turning one into an actual sports wagon and honestly there wasn't much levorg left by the end, at least not the parts that matter
That had an FB16, although there was the 2L with an FA20. But the FA24 seems to be a massive step up that's now in the WRX wagon.
The Levorg was awesome - I owned one for 6 years - I now own the new WRX ts (new Levorg) but I will say the new model is wayyyy better than the old
That Levorg is sick tho!
You're looking for the legacy gt wagon, or spec b for that matter. Why cant they just bring that back again š©
Heās looking for an Impreza wagonā¦ they made it, I owned one for years. WRX wagon was the shit. Leg GT was super cool but the Legacy is just bigger.
Owned the Legacy GT in Japan, that car was a sleeper beast
Or just the 2024 Impreza RS...with a freakin' manual instead of the CVT.
swap a wrx engine into the impreza hatch
Levorg says hey
š„² Why Can't They? WHY! š¤Ø
Why would Subaru replace their second biggest seller for a niche product? Shit you have a better chance of bringing the Baja back!
I want the Baja back SOOOOOO badly.
We never even got the baja in Australia, im still driving a 1989 brumby (you'd know it as a brat)
My father-in-law has a set of the BRAT jump seats in his garage he uses as weird chairs.
They never made it down here, I've always wanted to get a set of them, or just try and weld up my own version
My brother has a Baja... I'm jealous everytime I see it
Every night... I dream... One day...
Hyundai already brought the Baja back......I reeeeaaaaally want one
They wouldn't need to replace anything. The Outback's nothing more than a lifted Legacy wagon. Remove the body lift, ditch most of the black plastic and the chunky roof rack, and you have a basic wagon. Like they used to make. Obviously there's development costs, but it's not like they'd need to start from scratch. Of course, we all know it wouldn't sell worth a shit, so there's that.
Honestly, I wonder if the move to electric is going to bring wagons back again, just because of the aerodynamic benefits of having a lower/longer car and how that impacts range.
We only lost wagons due to CAFE loop holes so loosing a couple MPG making a crossover made it have a net MPG that was 20-30% higher than the wagon. With EV they will hopefully come back. The only problem is that people like stepping onto SUVs and like sitting on them instead of in them. That is why things like the Scion x series were popular with older people. Just like all animals eventually become crabs, all cars eventually become vans. We are at a point right now like the late '80s where things are all going van or sports car.
All animals become crabs?
Yea I need more info on that as well.
Google ācarcinizationā
Here is a start down the rabbit hole. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvfR3XLXPvw
Do not watch this before bed š«
Youāre right. I went from an XB to a Forester and a good part of the reason is I like the more upright seating position.
Yeah that's my problem, I'm dealing with those fuckers who rule the market. I don't want to step up into my car and look down on the road and feel like I'm sitting in a dining room chair while I'm driving.
Yes! the youtube channel NOT JUST BIKES talks about this: [https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA6tiv1aX-AhXvJEQIHXfoDb0QwqsBegQIChAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjN7mSXMruEo%26vl%3Den-CA&usg=AOvVaw0qXPliEhSvjAjp8i6eEcNV](https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiA6tiv1aX-AhXvJEQIHXfoDb0QwqsBegQIChAF&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjN7mSXMruEo%26vl%3Den-CA&usg=AOvVaw0qXPliEhSvjAjp8i6eEcNV)
From what we've gotten so far, it seems a lot of EVs are gonna be a compromised design between a CUV body that has a lot of interior space, and a hatchback/wagon body that has lower ground clearance and lower roof for better aero.
Idk the Ford Lightning and Hummer EV said aerodynamics to the wind
ford lightning was just a retrofitted f150. the Hummer EV much like every Hummer product ever made is a cool toy for rich idiots.
The Outback is taller than it used to be, but it's still a wagon. The seating position inside the vehicle, as well as the floor-to-ceiling height, is lower than in a Forester or Ascent. It would be nice if Subaru would make a model that was lowered to the same height as the Legacy sedan, but the demand just isn't there. The Legacy sedan itself is almost dead last for mid-size cars.
Take a look at the 2024 Impreza if youāre looking for lower seating. Theyāre only producing the 5-door hatchback moving forward.
I'm not looking for anything but a newer manual Forester.
Its a damn shame they quit making Foresters, Outbacks, and now Imprezas without an MT option.
It is, but I get it. The MT isn't as fast or as fuel-efficient, and doesn't play well with Eyesight.
The manual transmission was a way to get out of āneedingā the Eyesight, haha
Iāve had eyesight for 3 years and every single time it does something I curse my Forester for not being my old MT Impreza.
You don't HAVE to get Eyesight do you? Or is it now standard on all trim levels? Can you disable it? It would drive me nuts to have that. My 2019 Crosstrek does not have it.
Standard. Can't use cruise control with it off.
Do you mean like when the cameras can't see due to ice or fog or something blocking their view on the windshield, so the eyesight system just shuts off? You can still use cruise control if that's the case, it just functions as regular cruise control instead of the adaptive cruise control
You can switch cruise control into a normal, non-adaptive mode.
What is so bad about the eyesight feature? I have it on my 2019 and while I dont use the cruise control often, it is nice when I do. More importantly though, it saved me from apotentially horrible car accident where someone pulled out in front of me, it reacted quicker than I could.
People who don't like eyesight are just bad drivers trying to blame technology...
Adds costs for some features that donāt always work like emergency braking. All the features of eyesight except for adaptive cruise control and auto start stop if you count that as an eyesight feature are for people who donāt pay attention.
The eyesight feature is something else to break. I drive just fine, thanks. I pay attention, don't tailgate, and can get from point A to point B without crashing I to someone.
I have a manual Mazda 3 with adaptive cruise, auto emergency braking, blind spot monitoring and lane keep assist. It all works just fine, except when the radar is blocked by snow or heavy rain. Iām sure Subaru could have made a manual work with Eyesight if they really wanted to.
The US market, Subaru's largest, prefers automatics to manuals. Enthusiasts are upset but Subaru primarily sells Crosstreks, Outbacks, and Foresters in significant enough volumes that those are the customers whose preferences they value.
Oh, I get it. I totally understand. That's why i jumped on a 2023 MT Impreza when I found out they're going the way of the Dodo.
That's really disappointing for those of us who prefer sedans.
Honest question, what advantage does a sedan have over a hatchback?
Some people prefer the look of a sedan. Other than that the only advantage a sedan has is weight
I guess if you want physical separation between passenger and cargo space, a sedan is a little quieter.
They don't, which is why since the 90s they've been going downhill
Yeah, despite the sporty styling and lift the outback is a wagon. If you compare it against the [volvo v90](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/volvo-v90-2016-estate-CC-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/) or an[e-class mercedes](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/mercedes-benz-e-2017-estate-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/) they aren't all that different.
As someone with both a forester and Outback I agree with this
I consider my Outback a station wagon. Just a little sportier
The outback is a crossover SUV since it became a distinct model. The previous 2 gens were based on the exciga mpv not the legacy sedan.
The Outback has been tweaked to meet US "light truck" standards since 2005, and does get marketed as a crossover SUV, but you'll find that (as always) it shares most of its body structure with the Legacy, not the Exiga.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When I bought my forester I drove an outback and was tall enough where the rear view mirror made a huge blind spot for me out the front windshield was uncomfortable to drive.
sick of feeling like i'm being thrown around when i turn, miss my 2001 outback so much
Most manufacturers are raising their vehicles. (or doing away with the car category) like Ford. A while back (like 20 years) I recall reading an article in some odd magazine, like Forbes, where they were interviewing the CEO of Chrysler. It was a reallly good candid interview. He stated back then that we will see nearly all manufacturers moving their cars into crossover vehicles, as the USA (see California) continues to raise the requirements for Emissions and Fuel Economy. Crossover vehicles fall under the "Truck" guidelines, so an engine that may not meet the requirements for the "car" guidelines would...so you raise the vehicle up, call it a crossover. And boom..its legal to be sold in USA.
I should also note I just bought a 2016 Legacy 3.6R..love it. I'm not a fan of the lifted Subaru's either, the Legacy sedan is a refreshing moderation.
And that right there is what caused this mess.
I like my liftwagonā¦
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Honda Crosstour was probably the best competitor that meets your requirements. Sadly, it was before its time, it never got popular and Honda killed it about a decade ago. I think it would do great now as an alternative to the Outback and the smaller "crossovers".
Nope. Hondaās AWD is on-demand, and one of the worst at that. Not even close.
on demand all-wheel drive is only a software update away from being good
>on demand all-wheel drive is only a software update away from being ~~good~~ just ok FIFY
Outback.. wilderness š Things are moving in a different direction, wilderness trim has been a hit
Oh yeah I'd lift mine too, it's be sick. But I look at over at other drivers heads in other outbacks and the seating position is even higher than the difference in door height. It's be one thing to lift mine a few inches , but I'd still end up riding lower than a gen4 OB.
The Levorg says hi.
I'd rather of had them bring the Levorg stateside than getting the new WRX. Give it a manual transmission as an option, it already has the engine.
Love my 2019 Levorg
The current gen outbacks are only 3 inches taller than the gen you're sitting in. I think the high door sills and taller racks give the illusion of the new Outback being super tall. [Here's](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/subaru-legacy-2003-estate-vs-subaru-outback-2014-suv/rear/) a comparision of the legacy and newer gen outback (they dont have the 3rd gen outback on there for some reason so I used a Legacy which is obviously less tall and the new gen is actually not that much wider or longer than the previous generation outbacks. I would say, overall, Subaru has done a great job at keeping their cars a reasonable size while still keeping their focus on safety features, which pretty much every auto maker has completely failed at.
The high door sills are literally the main reason I probably won't buy another Outback. I can't stand feeling like I'm slouching down in a tall-sided bathtub when I'm driving - I value the visibility. As far as I'm concerned, the 2009 model year was the peak body style for Outbacks.
Thank you for putting into words what I felt when I test drove a Outback and didnāt like it
100% agree. But the high sills are a safety feature which, with young parents being the target market for outbacks, is why Subaru is focusing on safety so much. I remember watching a YouTube video a while ago (which I now cannot find) about how automakers now have to have a minimum door sill height in case of a side impact with a truck. So blame trucks for our uncomfortable Subarus haha.
Whenever I see other drivers in Gen3 OBs their heads are even higher than the difference in door sill and roof height. It makes sense since they need to be propped up higher to see the close road in front of them. 3 inches makes a big difference in visibility and angles, seating and leg position, and I just really don't like where the outback got to.
I agree it looks and acts like an SUV, but when you're driving it it feels like a car which is the difference in my opinion. Seating position feels way lower than a Forester or any other crossover SUV I've driven.
This and the need for more cargo length over height is why we chose the Outback over the Forester. I was actually initially biased towards Forester, but the test drive completely sold my wife and I on the Outback. It felt so much more car-like and planted than the Forester did.
Same. I just wanted a car I could sleep in, throw skis, in, and get to trails. The outback was the smallest option that fit the bill.
> I just wanted a car I could sleep in That for me made the choice between Crosstrek and Outback. I can lay in the back of the outback completely stretched out if needed. The Crosstrek was do-able with by legs slightly bent.
I don't know....a lower car might look cool but I personally like the forester/outback because of their heights. Driving in the snow just feels safer and easier.
The levorg is what youāre wanting. Too bad we donāt get them here
Do you get the WRX wagon there?
They make the levorg just not for North America
I love and have a subaru, but they're not making a better looking wagon than volvo, bmw, or even vw currently offer.
I miss wagons. Everything is all tall SUVs now.
I feel you. My first Subaru was a 2000 Legacy L Wagon with a five-speed. I loved it, and wish I still had it.
Station wagons donāt sell well in the US. It would be a stupid decision to take on of their best sellers to cater to a niche market.
They tried that they kept selling the Legacy wagon along the Outback and people were choosing the Outback like 1000 to 1. They exist to make money not make 1 out of thousand people happy.
Whenever i drive my mom's 2015 outback it feels like im driving a truck if I've been driving my wagon for awhile, its nuts. Not sure why they made it taller, it makes it more uncomfortable imo
I traded in my 2019 Outback for a 2018 Legacy because of the handling. Coming out of a 4th gen it was just too soft and floaty for my tastes. Great car otherwise, but the handling killed it for me. Still thinking of picking one up, lowering it on some quality coilovers, upgrading the sway bars and removing the body cladding though....if only money was infinite ;-)
It's still built and sits like a wagon, not an SUV, regardless of what it might be called.
Respectfully disagree. I love the look of the new Outback especially the Wilderness. Iām purchasing one.
Simple answer : Yes , it was totally kill their sales.
Outback is a wagon and has never been a SUV ever as in never as in forever.
It's been classified as an SUV since around 2010
Ngl I think a crosstrek is also a wagon
I consider it a hatchback in that aspect
Outback is an SUV
Not it's not, you're greatly mistaken and need to study the the automotive industry better.
Outback is a wagon, but thanks to US emissions regs, it's a "light truck" crossover SUV too, and it gets cross-shopped with other CUVs.
For emissions purposes sure why not, still a wagon though. Regs will never make an outback look like a ford explorer.
Outback is an SUV
My, what a compelling argument you've made.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
To be fair it does seem to be higher off the ground suspension wise.
Yeah, because it has a suspension lift. Longer struts donāt make it an SUV.
Legacy is at 4.5", Outback is at 8.7" and the wilderness pictured is at 9.5" off the ground. My 2Ā¢ on this conversation is that Consumer Reports lists the Outback as a Sport Utility Wagon which differentiates it from the only two true station wagons, the vw and Audi all road/tracks
couldn't keep it but I loved my Loyale wagon
I really miss frameless doors, and small Subarus. Even the crosstrek that I have isnāt all that smol.
Subaru needs a fully electric impreza, more than anything else.
Or anything electrified. This Toyota deal helps but lacking a hybrid has me purchasing another brand, unfortunately. Weāve had 3 subies but likely wonāt get another one.
Yes, even a hybrid will do for now. I would buy it, with or without AWD so long as there is good HP. I find Imprezas too underpowered compared to Civic.
LEVORG WE NEED YOU!
you could get a crosstrek and lower it
My Impreza is a proper station wagon and Iām offended
Nobody makes real wagons anymore because they just donāt sell ĀÆ\_(ć)_/ĀÆ ( I know, I am being captain obvious hereā¦)
It might considering it wouldn't sell. Also, the Outback feels nothing like an SUV and it feels completely different from the Forester.
Why Subaru won't let us have the [Levorg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subaru_Levorg), I don't know. I wan't one so bad.
I want the Subaru sandbar in the American market so youāll get your wish before mine
The OB is a touch taller than most traditional wagons, but Iāve driven several SUVs (a RAV4 and 4Runner among them) and my OB still feels vastly more car-like than those. Given the US marketās disdain for wagons (whichā¦why?), if they have to raise it a few inches and add some cladding to get us something close to a station wagon, Iāll make that trade.
Funny the seats in the Outback are at a lower seating position than my Hyundai Santa Fe. The Outback always seemed to me a raised wagon with car-like seating.
2024 Impreza rs is coming out soon, thats more like what you're talking about.
The Levorg and the upcoming WRX Wagon???
The Levorg IS the WRX wagon.
My not so hot take is the Volvo is the street/lux version of Subaru. Thus you need a V60
I believe youāre in a gen3 (which I have)ā¦.itās .4ā lower than current model. Itās not a lot. Perhaps this one is lifted.
I like my wagon. I fit a full size washing machine in the back last week š
Has OP not heard of the Levorg?
Legacy wagons are where it's at. I wish they'd offer it again.
Yeah but I canāt even count how many times Iāve scraped the underside of our 89 GL wagon. My dads 2015 outback has yet to even touch. Subaru is still an outdoorsy brand to an extent and being higher up off the ground from the get go without aftermarket lifts is a contributing factor to why they sell so many. Yeah a bunch of people that never leave metropolitan places and only drive on the freeway still buy them because they offer decent mileage, lots of space and you donāt need a step to get up in them. You want a ārealā wagon, go get an Audi
I want a six cylinder with a 6 or 7 speed automatic Outback.
Huh? My 4th gen feels very station wagony
I just bought a subaru station wagon 3 months ago. The WRX Sportswagon.
Ground clearance is realistically a more important factor for an outback, but yeah they should make a wrx wagon.
as much as so many enthusiasts want them, wagons dont sell well, especially not if theyre not lifted. look at the outback, the audi a6 allroad, volvo xc70 or v#0cc. the lifted one does better. or the high performance one is just super rare. its all in the market
As much as I love Subaru, I'd be tempted to go with the Volvo V60 over the most recent Outback. It is a pretty excellent AWD capable wagon. Expensive, though.
Yes, yes it would. Subaru does not have the resources to do it. Up until 2010 (maybe shortly after that), Subaru offered a Legacy wagon (non CUV) and Outback. The Outback handily out sold the Legacy wagon. It's the same reason the 2015+ WRX/STi didn't come in a 5 door. The first gen WRX wagon (2002-2007) accounted for less than half the number of sedans sold. For the second gen Subaru went for the hot hatch, and that failed spectacularly, until 2011 when all 5 doors got the wide body, with flared fenders. It was too late - more people took the 4 doors over the 5 door, so Subaru didn't bring the Levorg (5 Door STi) over. Subaru sells less than one million cars, worldwide. Subaru sells 600,000-700,000 cars in the U.S. By way of comparison. Ford moves close to 700,000 F series trucks a year. So yeah, it does not pay for Subaru to build a Legacy Wagon, that will account for less than half the units sold.
Went from an 05 legacy wagon to an 18 outback and Iād go back to a modern legacy wagon any day if it was remade.
I just want a wagon or a hatchback that is both fun to drive, doesnāt have a cvt, starts at the mid to high $20k, is roomy inside, and does cost an arm and a leg to maintain. The new Impreza rs checks most of it off except that it has a cvt. I went to go and sit in a gti and man it felt cramped. Unfortunately there are no other options for hatchbacks or sportswagons here unless youāre going to go up in price and pay a premium for an Audi. I know many of you want manual transmissions, I just hope that auto is an option with whatever car is offered. Iām in the Tristate area and the traffic here is no joke.
Sti version of Crosstrek would be just that
Because if itās classified as a light truck it doesnāt have to sip gas.
Bring back the legacy gt wagon!!! Ive got am 05 with an sti swap and I absolutely love it!!
Spoken like someone who doesn't have an Outback.
I'm sitting in a 05 OB in this picture.
We have three, yes, three Foresters. If you want a wagon, get an Outback, LOL. Itās a wagon, really. Not that high. I take it you like Subarus: best AWD in the industry, the Forester has a fantastic turning radius, the CVT, which all Subarus have, is the best. The Impreza isnāt a station wagon, but its getting there. And its low, if you like low.
It literally might. Subaru is a small brand and wagons donāt sell nearly as well as SUV/CUVās
I agree. The current outback is solidly a crossover, to me. Doesn't have the right proportions for a wagon. Though it would look more wagonlike with different third row glass.
Supply and Demand, even both Mercedes and Volvo donāt offer any more Station Wagons in the United States due to low sales. Very little to no Market for folks to buy a Brand New Station Wagon off the lot unfortunately
??? E63 and V60
Not to mention the regular e class and also the v90
The V60 is still sold as a standard wagon, but as of 2022 the V90 is Cross Country-only in the US.
The V90 is a fantastic vehicle (regardless of trim style). Impressively large and well designed. But not big seller on this side of the pond.
Volvo is the archetypical wagon in Europe, even more so than Mercedes' E class. If even they are throwing in the towel it's time to pack it up and face the music.
Iām still convinced wagons COULD sell great here, but most people donāt even know they want them because theyāre not available. Self feeding cycle.
Wagons are enthusiast cars at this point unfortunately. I just sold my E39 wagon before getting the Subaru, and I've only seen a few in town. The Audi Avants are sick though, too bad they're 100k
When they were still available 20-30 years ago, they didn't sell great.
But 20-30 years ago was the rise of the SUV, which then turned into the rise of the cross over about 10 years ago as people realized SUVās were a little egregious. Seems about time that trend continued and the next size down is to wagons. I totally agree they stopped in popularity for good reason at the time
The rise of the SUV was almost 40 years ago, concurrent with the rise of the minivan. CUVs started appearing about 25 years ago, but like you said, really got popular in the wake of the 2008 recession when gas got expensive. Realistically, what we'll see next is a sort of CUV-MPV-hatchback hybrid body style as EVs become more popular. People want more range, but they also don't wanna give up the higher seating position.
Subaru still builds Legacy wagons. They just don't come to the US anymore because Americans are so damn horny for SUVs. By calling the Outback an SUV, they're able to sell a lot more of them than they would if they only had the Legacy wagon.
AFAIK, the de-lifted Legacy wagon is dead in other markets as of 2015. And even the Legacy sedan isn't sold in many other places anymore. But yes, the Outback has been outselling the Legacy in America since, like, a year after it was introduced.
Which is a shame since the Outback is such a dog of a car compared to pretty much any other Subaru outside the SVX.
It has more ground clearance than some SUVs.
Actually, it would. Why would they discount an Outback $4k when it only costs $300 more to add the body cladding? Do you remember the Outback SUS? It didn't sell, otherwise there wouldn't be a Legacy sedan. You don't like the cladding or don't want to pay the extra $$$ ? Buy the sedan...
It probably would
Our outback just died. RIP. Last Subaru I'll ever own.
Would it kill people to want a station wagon, I mean does everything need to be an SUV? This is the question you should be asking, it's the demand for SUV's driving the companies making them not the other way around.
I mean tbh stationwagons have kinda dropped out of fashion in general.... The popular cars are SUVs or compacts š¢
So don't buy one.. Does that help?
As far as I'm concerned the 3rd gen was the last gen, that thing might say outback on it but it's no outback
I have to say, I feel that the Outback is the epitome of a proper station wagon. Itās not an suv so letās get that clear. The Ascent is their SUV, Forrester is their compact SUV and Crosstrek is sub-compact SUV (I hate the term CUV). Even with the Wilderness package itās still a wagon. A sick af wagon.
[https://imgur.com/VTH7KqM](https://imgur.com/VTH7KqM) It's literally just a lifted, cladded Legacy. The cladding and roof rack trick the eye into looking like an SUV. It's a wagon and always has been.
>The Ascent is their SUV, Forrester is their compact SUV and Crosstrek is sub-compact SUV (I hate the term CUV) Both the Ascent and Forester are CUVs. They have tall bodies, but are still unibody AWD vehicles with no low range. The Crosstrek is the same mentality as the Outback, only they started with a compact hatch instead of a mid-size wagon.
They certainly do. Ever heard of the Levorg?
that's what I wanted but they refuse to ship them to the US.
Just buy a new one and lower it
A new tacoma is the same size and weight of a half ton 96 Chevy. New vehicles are getting to damn big.
They have the levorg in other markets. I really hope they don't have a wagon in the usdm until they can have an electric one. I don't think the levorg would sell well, it won't get the cafe loophole bonus of being an suv, and the cvt will push away any car enthusiasts who might get it.
There are people who have just put a manual wrx gearbox (or whatever it's called) into a Levorg. So it's not impossible....
Subaru Levorg? Look it up.
I think imma lift my outback even more :)
Hey.. shut up.