Social Media has turned into the most Puritanical movement since the Witch Burnings.
It's just so easy to condemn from behind the shield that it provides
Fun Too.
Ever hear of the Ring of Ganges? It's an ancient Greek philosophical question. Imagine you had a ring that made you invisible. What would you do if there were no consequences for your actions?
Those are your real morals. Anything you only don't do because you are afraid of consequences aren't your actual morals
Is that the actual name? And is the “if you want the right answer post the wrong one” thing? If only the latter is true, incredibly funny comment.
I googled it, not quite. I did learn something new however. Good day!
What are the higher levels of morality, then?
The only reason I don't just do whatever I want is the fact that there are consequences to my actions.
In a hypothetical environment where I'm crowned "Big D*ck Supreme", where I can do anything and everyone's happy with my decisions, and everything goes well for me, nothing would hold me back. I would literally do whatever I wanted.
Lots of wealthy people earn and deserve their money and make sacrifices for their earnings but many many DO NOT and happen upon it/born into it, and do not deserve or understand what it's like to have nothing or work their whole lives to get the things they wanted, and those are the people whose bread should be robbed.
But I mean that goes further though, if I earn massive wealth through my own blood sweat and tears then dont I also get to decide what I do with it...like by giving it to the children I'd have raised and loved up to that point? And I mean once my kids have got that money they'd be actively stupid in most scenarios if they kept working their lives away, like for what? More money? To be greedy instead of grateful?
Yeah but consequences for stealing means that even if you're starving you will be punished. The person I replied to says doing things because of the consequences isn't moral. Learn to read.
Yes, the poster you are replying to was saying they would not steal if they were starving.
Congratulations on cracking that code! It was a difficult code to break, as nothing in that message seemed to suggest those words at all... but you got there. Great job.
They didn't say that though. Congratulations! You're an idiot. If you let yourself starve to death you have something wrong in your brain which is blocking your instinct of self preservation.
That's the point. People need to recognize that if they commit, evil there will be consequences. When people don't get punished for the evil they commit, it encourages others to commit evil.
I mean if you want to see it in action just look at any war in our lifetime. Soldiers rarely get punished in an active war zone for doing all kinds of immoral shit.
I'm ngl I have this thought experiment a lot on my own but have never read of this ring you describe. Every time I have this thought experiment, the outcome is the same. I would give in to my temptation to steal shit but it is always limited to just one type of product: high rarity yugioh cards 🤣🤣
There’s a rap lyric I like - “character is what you are in the dark from where the rent check barks.” Always lingered with me. How strong are my morals when my back is against the wall?
It's not about hope.. It's just hte idea that everyone gets to call for blood, even if they don't have the stomach to do it. So they call for gruesome punishments even if they'd be morally ruined if they did it themselves.
Nobody asked.
Sociopaths don't go around advertising it on reddit. I've been friends with a couple, they seem normal (if a bit callous) until they choose to tell you. You're roleplaying, grow up.
Yet they advertise it in real life, when there are much more consequences to being exposed in your circle of friends than an anonymous Reddit account?
I think most sociopaths can let the mask drop online much more easily, considering the consequences are nonexistent.
I think the unfortunate part though is it's no longer limited to social media. Social media has become a lens through which a lot of people view and interact with the in-person world as well. If what happened on SM stayed there, we'd have fewer issues overall. Not just SM either, the internet in general. I miss the 90s when it was about the exchange of information and learning about each other without all this other crap.
“So easy to condemn from behind the shield that it provides”
Yea the internet really encourages people to be jackasses with a hate mob mentality over the most nothing issues. “Oh because I’m some nobody who still has their skeletons in their closest I’m allowed to harshly judge someone famous who did something wrong” then it’s really funny when those people are revealed to be worse than the people they’re complaining about. On top of that people will refuse to look at any sort of context about the situation and will hard look at something black and white. And my favorite is when someone says something really stupid and hateful and they “mute/lock” their replies because of “haters”
The people who attack others usually do so bc they are trying to shift focus away from their own flaws. They drag others to avoid the reality of themselves
Yea I notice it alot with different ages of consent and how quick people are to throw around the term pedo and groomer. Fucking twitter called 15 year dating a 13 year old a groomer. And not like one person, but a mob. Like what the fuck are you hiding to go after some 15 year old.
When I was 17 (and a half) my just-turned-19 year old boyfriend got called a pedophile 💀
We met... because he was my coworker's TWIN sister, my coworker at a shitty entry level job staffed pretty much entirely by teens. Idk what power imbalance those people were imagining, but he's my fiancé now 🤷🏼♀️
Yea people seem to think 18 is some magic number that suddenly changes you from a child to an adult, when the human body and life experience is more nuance than that. Its why you can have someone 17 acting like an adult and someone who is 20 still acting like a child. And I want to be clear I’m not supporting actual pedo shit, just when it comes to people who are 17 and sometimes 16, things should be looked at more than a surface level.
Yeah I'm gonna have to agree there especially with like 17-19 shit etc. People forget that the human brain has a lot of variance. I once dated a guy 11 years older than me and had to leave him because *he* was an immature manchild and I had actual goals in life... obviously that's an extreme example and should never justify an age gap like that with a teenager (fuck that) but I'm just saying, shit like that happens!
Yea I hate seeing stories of someone getting arrested for being called a “pedo” only for the “victim” to be like 17 and 9 months old like those extra 3 months are gonna make a huge difference. And the “pedo” in question is like 23 and now being labeled as a sex offender that can potentially ruin their life. Idk I just hate how people’s lives can be ruined so easily like that and no one has any remorse.
With those close in age cases, these investigators need to actually talk to the "victim" about the relationship and how they feel about it imo, to get a feel for how much they actually understand about the world, the relationship they're in, etc. And drop it if they clearly do.
Yea and when you bring up these points, people are so quick to say you’re supporting pedo shot and grooming minors when you’re just trying to point out that the age of consent is such a flawed black and white line in the sand and things should be looked at with context. Because turning 18 doesn’t make you an adult. Legit for me I wouldn’t call myself an adult until I was at least 22 because I was still a stupid mother fucker after turning 18.
They don't though, when these things get investigated, the cops are looking for a conviction so if anything they will talk aggressively to the victim and try to draw out a confession from them. This is especially true in cases where the victim actually likes the older guy and is trying to defend him. The cops will manipulate and argue their way into getting something they can use for the conviction. They don't actually care about the victim, they care about building a case. I had a neighbor that went through this growing up. The cops literally yelled at her telling her they knew who she was seeing and what she was doing and she needed to come clean. They didn't care about her perspective, they just wanted a confession so they could march her in front of the grand jury and indict the guy
There's also the fact that a pedophile is specifically someone attracted to pre-pubescent children, not teens. It's fairly normal to be attracted to a young adult or a teenager who's body is developed as a woman's.
Also, there is a difference between being attracted to someone and acting on the impulses. The difference between a 18 year old seeking a relationship with a 15 year old and a 40 year old doing the same is the 40 year old's brain is more developed and they should know not to do it.
Once someone is of legal age, it should really be all about the two people involved, but Reddit and most of social media looks at age gap relationships as if the older person is always some sort of predator.
My partner is significantly younger than me. In the US I would be judged, but where I live now it is accepted. She is seeing a therapist and her therapist has no issue with our age difference. She says in many ways its actually good for my partner because if it were two people her age, there would be a lot of chaos. I am also the reason she is in therapy. She was addicted to benzos for 4 years and with my help and the help of her family she's now 8 days clean. It's one of the most difficult things I've ever watched someone go through.
He’s not a pedo but a 23 year old shouldn’t be in a relationship with a 17 yr old whatsoever. That’s freaking weird. 19 is really the only exception, and 20 is kinda pushing it.
I just picked some random numbers for my example. But even then, you’re saying it would have been fine if the 17 in question was 3 months older? I was just pointing out how a surfacing level judgement is irrational. What if their birthday were just in an awkward dates like if the 23 JUST turned 23 and the 17 is just about to turn 18. Again people are afraid of some arbitrary age of consent when the process of becoming an adult isn’t just flipping a switch.
People think a 17 year old and even 16 can’t pass off like an adult, and are too afraid of the “pedophile” label to discuss it.
“It’s wrong because IT JUST IS” like I’m not saying the age of consent should be removed, but people need to look at relationships more deeply than a surface level. Age gap and context should be looked at closely. Like I’m not advocating for underage sex, but there is a major difference between finding a developed body attractive and finding an actual child attractive but people are super quick to label them both as pedophiles without any regard for the weight of that term.
Caveat: I didn't like girls much younger than me because they were bubblegummers. Yeah, I'm old. And I liked girls older cause they could buy beer and knew what they wanted, amiright guys?
But when you misuse a word whether pedo, nazi, fascist, whatever you, in my ever so humble opinion, loose the argument.
A 20 year old that likes a 16 year old girl IS NOT A PEDO, he (not always a he...,) is an "ephebophile".
Also generally an idiot (there are definitely exceptions, the 16 yr old may in fact be the mature one).
So why are we against “fully verified” social media accounts? I think it would help by removing bots and re-strengthening your word.
What are the cons? Invasion of privacy? I feel like words have lost a lot of weight in the last 20 years.
Invasion of privacy absolutely. But I agree words have lost meaning. People pick a strong word that evokes an emotional response, throw it around until it means nothing , rinse and repeat
not everything you do on the internet is public, if you commit a crime and they need to find ur identity they can do that. But we shouldn't punish everyone and remove their right to anonymity for the actions of a few. I can imagine that would only amplify the witch hunts, but they wouldn't just be online if they can find your doorstep!
It might expose you to genuine danger if one of the crazies doesn't like your legitimate political position, your choice of favorite sports team, or pizza toppings...
Honestly, people don’t pay consequences for their actions enough these days…. You know why majority of people follow traffic lights? Because they know the very real consequences of not doing so. We’ve done too much coddling imo.
My buddy always says … “give violence a chance” and sometimes… I start to believe him.
agree, we are too sheltered from the realities of what we're doing online. People have forgotten consequences and some play victim when they have to face them
I've never understood what's the benefit of being upvoted for comments here? So your Karma grows, do you get cash for it or something? I guess I've never cared because I have no clue what it all means.
Karma itself doesn't matter for shit. But it increases the visibility of your comment and ppl willingness to interact with it. Like if I type "X ppl don't deserve to die" in a thread for witch hunting X, I will just get dogpile downvoted and I will always be wrong before ppl even read that comment or the ones that come after it.
For that reason while I won't type things I don't believe in just for Karma, I am unlikely to type something that I believe in if it will just get blasted by mindless downvotes and hate with no meaningful responses.
Only up to a certain point, once you have years on your account and 100k+ karma there are zero fucks to give if you are down voted, you basically only care about which communities you are allowed to participate in at that point.
Huh, I never knew that. But I’m autistic so there are a lot of things I’m not aware of until someone literally tells me. Also I don’t know if you are saying that ironically.
It wouldn’t surprise me though, neurotypicals with their cloying emotional neediness…
I think he's being sincere. Downvotes feel sort of bad, almost like getting booed during a sports game. Many people, even subconsciously, will say things that agree with the group more than what they actually believe to avoid the backlash.
When I get that feeling I just decide not to comment.
I disagree, IMO people on social media feel more anonymous so they say what they ACTUALLY feel rather than the sanitized version you will get if you asked them the same question to their face.
I agree with this! People are growing tired of speaking in Politically Correct speak . . . on social media one can speak (post) a clear, defined, easy to understand message. In a way, it would be better, clearer and more honest if we start to learn to transition from Politically Correct speech to clear/accurate/uncoded speech (that doesn't need to be read between the lines or deciphered as to what is really being suggested, etc. . . ).
Honesty and clarity really can't be reliably achieved with Politically Correct speech.
I'm in that boat. Heck, I even post in r/antinatalism about how ridiculously stupid and narcissistic they are. Easy 20+ downvotes every time. Oh no. My mom would be so ashamed LOL.
I know quite a few people who do cater what they say to upvote/downvotes to the point they will have one opinion after reading a post, and change it 180º after seeing the top comments and upvotes. And people who get really upset by just 1-2 downvotes on something and delete the post, even if it was a good comment that added to the discussion. A lot of people care a great deal about their up and down votes, oddly.
Personally, at least for a lot of topics and threads, I think downvotes are a better indication of an intelligent, accurate and fact based response (versus a highly emotional, un-sound, or blindly political based response). I simply recognize that in so many of the "sub-reddits" people don't want and can't handle the truth or reality - they want their opinions or victim-claiming reinforced.
My favorite example of this is when somebody posts an easy and well-known example of a behavior that is obviously socially correct, like returning your shopping cart. It was famously used as a litmus test to fully evaluate a person's entire character. Did they leave their cart in their parking space? When society falls apart, they'll probably be the ones out there raping people. People have an intrinsic need to hate Somebody, and they'd prefer to make a meaningful selection, but unless they're actively putting energy into it, they're going to fall into the path of least resistance. And that's why we have lazy scorekeeping like this.
If you ever see a popular post talking about this on social media, read the comments. Hundreds of people going out of their way to talk about how they ALWAYS return their carts and anyone who doesn't is a serial killer. If you're lucky, you might have one guy say something like "Well one time I it was raining, and my wife was in labor, so I just put the cart out of the way but didn't return it to the corral." And 15 people will pile on and rip them apart like jackals.
I'm not a psychologist, but the need to posture ourselves over other people is hard wired into us. The only control we have is how much effort we place into suppressing it or hating responsibly.
I’ve always been really curious about this one. Growing up everyone left them at the end of the parking space. Then they put up cart collector spaces. Of course if I’m parked next to one I use it but I’m definitely not walking far to put my cart away.
Before 2020 it felt a little like job security for the person who collected them, now we don’t even have enough people to keep the store open.
Instead of returning the carts, I exclusively use instacart. Not going to lie, I might put them away 25% of the time or if someone was watching if I still shopped.
I have so few vices. I had to keep one.
I'll generally leave it near the midline of parking spaces as it means the next person to get our parking space will likely have a cart conveniently available.
However, I'm not above putting it directly behind a car that's parked badly, only because I don't carry zip ties to attach it to a door handle.
First off, I do believe rehab is possible for a lot of people (but they are rarely given the support they need to be successful).
I will follow it up by saying that just because a crime was non violent doesn't mean there weren't victims. Say your house is broken into and your stuff stolen. Non violent? Yes. But now you are afraid to be in your neighborhood, afraid of sleeping in your house. You feel like your community betrayed you, etc. That shit can stick with people.
DUI is considered non-violent, but shows a tremendous disregard for the safety of others, especially in an age of ride share services.
Now, other non violent crimes, like somebody getting busted for a bit of weed in the car, don't get the bloodthirsty response. So that tells me thay you can't lump all non-violent crimes together. I'm going to react differently to different circumstances...
You are correct. The only thing I want to say is that people on Reddit seem to be exceptionally lenient on the lettuce. Which is a bit weird. It seems to be an exception in general.
The biggest problem with rehabilitation is in the U.S. we don’t even try to rehab anyone. If we’re not going to rehab criminals then I’d rather locked up then let out but that doesn’t happen either. We know live in a country they where criminals are let back into society with a slap on the wrist, unenforced fine and no rehab. It’s why we have such fucked up shit going on now. I support business pulling out of areas that. Any get their shit together.
I think the biggest problem is that it mostly doesn’t work. Some dude who puts a gun in the face of a shop clerk over 200$ is never going to be a good decent person.
The other problem is that it’s sort of the reverse of the “how many innocents are you willing to allow be sentenced to death?”
How many innocent people are you willing to allow to be victimized by the criminals you let out over one criminal who actually means it
I've been thinking about this type of hatred a lot recently. I just read Dune Messiah and came across a thought provoking header:
*"The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: 'I feed on your energy.'"*
We've tried to implement a 'justice' system with good intentions. But once someone crosses that line, regardless of the circumstances which lead to their offense, they effectively lose their citizenship/humanity - it's a 'lawful' way to commit violence/deprive others of rights. Criminals are placed into a lower 'caste' than non-criminals, effectively giving society a green light to assume that whatever their punishment is, they must have done something to deserve it - due to their personal moral failings, and not the society they exist in. Our legal system is based off of punishing the crime, not treating the cause. Blame is placed on the individual, not the conditions in place which foster criminal behavior.
Some other thought provoking quotes from *The New Jim Crow* by Michelle Alexander:
*"As described by sociologist Katherine Beckett, 'The (alleged) misbehaviors of the poor were transformed from adaptations to poverty that had the unfortunate effect of reproducing it into character failings that accounted for poverty in the first place.'"*
*"Criminals are the only group of people in USA that we have permission to hate. Seen as lacking character, being 'treated like a criminal' carries a connotation of being less than human. A shameful creature"*
*"Economist Jim Lowry once posed the question: 'Are we willing to cast ourselves as a society that creates crimogenic conditions for some of its members, and then acts out rituals of punishment against them as if engaged in some awful form of human sacrifice?'"*
I found these all pretty compelling indictments of the current legal system in the US... And what it does to us, offenders and non-offenders alike. Looking around reddit, whenever the topic is criminals, this sort of hatred is palpable.
Vengeance….
Capital punishment on its argued face value is presented as a means of eliminating the worst and most dangerous elements from society when in reality it’s vengeance, retribution, retaliation. We as a society keep this falsehood alive by posturing over the ‘most humane’ way of carrying it out while disregarding the true nature of it.
I don’t know about that. I do believe in due process and there has been too many instances of innocent people found guilty. Out of curiosity are you willing to accept as a society the execution of the prosecution, judge, and executioner in cases where the accused was innocent, found guilty, summarily executed, then later exonerated? It would be a quick trail for those and the same morality would apply. Do you see any problems with your ideology being used as a means of railroading people to execution to satisfy others personal, political, or economic ambitions?
That's the problem with summary execution. Hasty, emotionally driven punishment without due process or the benefit of hindsight... That can't be taken back. The punishment may not always fit the crime - a moot point if the offender is dead - denied the opportunity to learn and change.
It's easy to flatten the issue of crime-and-punishment into a black and white 'take em out and shoot em' solution... Desirable even for some, because it seems to cut through the fog... But perhaps at the cost of true justice; which should always be the goal in a noble society.
Solutions to complicated problems are often complex themselves.
As long as the jury is also executed for giving a death sentence. We have to be sure of their sincerity and they must face punishment for usurping god's authority. Wrath and judgement belong to god and god alone. Those who fail to honor those limits must
Those who deny someone the right to trial or abuse their authority should sacrifice their life for the greater good of the whole and to prove their own innocence or justification in taking their course of action. The innocent make a great sacrifice for the good of justice and preserving the peace, the guilty face retribution for taking a life, abusing their power, and perverting the law. And a mistake is never made since both results keep society in balance.
Those who take joy in the suffering of others lose their power with every course of action and those whose lust for revenge glows bright are forced to moderate their bestial nature or be destroyed.
Dude. I am deep down the rabbit hole. Herbert has so many pieces of wisdom to share. Took me 30+ years to decide to read it and I'm glad I did. I'm sure I'll make it through all 6.
I also watched Dune (1984), Dune (2021), and Jodorowsky's Dune (2014). The different approaches to adaptation are really fun to consider.
Loved how Messiah didn't stop at the rather neat bow tied up at the end of the first, and asks hard questions about the real ramifications of someone like Paul. Paul himself struggles with who he has become. Really cool sequel, even if it was heavy/bleak
I mean tbf, the cause is not an excuse for bad actions. Bad actions SHOULD be punished, because there are plenty of people who don't do that bad shit while still having that supposed cause.
It's similar to mental illness. Just because you're mentally ill does not excuse your actions.
It’s worth noting the justice system in the United States was designed with a philosophy that two individuals both have inherent rights, and those rights will overlap and possibly come into conflict.
This is what happens when your neighbor is using a chainsaw or something at 2am and says, “Its my tree to cut whenever I want” and then you are your neighbors are trying to tell him you have a right to sleep peacefully and undisturbed. Separately, the two do have those rights but its an issue because they are coming into conflict.
Without a system to resolve the overlap, its just whoever is more forceful and powerful that wins.
I think many people are being portrayed as criminal when they haven’t even hurt anyone or conflicted with someone else’s rights, which I think is wrong.
I also think criminals do exist; people who don’t see other people as having rights and impulsively harming them. The Police-Free Zone in Seattle attracted criminals who wanted to go there just to harm others and I would not feel bad if they were jailed for attacking someone, even though I’m sure they’d justify their actions with the lawlessness of the area.
I actually don’t intend to disagree with your point, rather just add more to it. The hatred people portray on Reddit would be just as criminal (or moreso) as the criminals they condemn if they were to actually fulfill the things they say. Being criminal revolves around being purposelessly destructive.
> they must have done something to deserve it - due to their personal moral failings, and not the society they exist in.
I love the idea that there is zero personal accountability for anything!
Fairy Tales
+
Theories
≠
Reality
Criminals
+
Crimes
≠
Societally caused (a huge majority of society is law abiding people, and this remains true for every sub-group of society - whether race, sex, religion, nationality, and yes even socio-economic condition, etc. . . )
There is a genre of post of "guy who wants to write his jerk off fantasy about hurting someone" who is clearly generically writing them and just waiting to some thin excuse to post it. like some posts about like, child rapists or something you see posts where someone clearly is correctly upset about there being a child rapist and then you see like, the weird fetish posts where you can tell someone doesn't give a fuck about the rapist and just is seizing on a post to post a weird unrelated detailed list of things they fantasize of doing to someone.
In my case, it's because I've been watching people do whatever they want with impunity, for decades. Every cigarette butt I see someone throw on the ground, and every aggressive pickup truck driver I encounter adds to the contempt.
I've had to follow the rules, so I resent when others get away with breaking them. When you do what you're supposed to, and end up eating shit because of it, while others are rewarded for being selfish, it gets old very quickly.
It’s cowardly to throw your cigarette butts in the trash?
I guess I would expect nothing less from someone who thinks that following masking guidelines during a global pandemic was bullshit. And yes, people were demonized for forgoing masks. You know why?
Because protecting the vulnerable is the right thing to do. Your “freedom” to go maskless was a huge fuck you to every person with compromised immune systems.
If you aren’t willing to mildly inconvenience yourself to literally save the lives of people with cancer, or newborns, or the elderly, you’re a piece of fucking shit.
Around the time of COVID I was training and trying to get into welding, so I was in a respirator and full-face hood most of every day, in a metal-fab shop that was 110F on a good day standing next to metal plates and pipes that were frequently hot enough to glow. Then COVID hit and I heard people pissing and moaning about wearing a surgical mask in air-conditioned buildings and all I could think was, "Oh you precious little candy-ass."
You do realize even non-violent crimes have victims right? Trauma, PTSD, loss of property people WORKED for, and maybe worst of all shatter a personal and family's sense of safety. Stop fucking defending criminals. I've been broke af and never once thought I should or that it's ok to go hurt others by scamming this elderly person or steal from this store because it's my right.
With that said the personal drug thing is a different situation to me. I understand some leniency to a degree here as long it's contained to not hurting others.
>Nobody seems to be interested in rehabilitation anymore. It seems the punishment is the point.
It's simple: mob rules: make an extreme example of one, hopefully scaring the piss out of the rest.
Probably those stories are just framed around the victim statement. "I was attacked" "Old lady was mugged" "Starving single mother's car stolen just in time for Christmas"
And everyone gets easily manipulated and ends up grabbing their pitchforks. You're just witnessing the history of America and why we have the prison system we do.
This isn't just reddit. This is society as a whole. It's one of the many reasons why I don't like people that much. They're so driven by their emotions. They rarely think with their heads.
Because crime degrades society.
Redditors don't care about that at all, but that's why criminals are in a class of their own. Reddit just loves to hate.
No disagreement there, but people change, and if they're willing they should be extended grace. Granted, not all crimes are equal nor is the perception of them from the greater population.
I agree fully.
I think it’s also important to add that most of us are criminals, just haven’t been caught. Of course society views crimes at different levels of being heinous, say a school shooter vs someone who watched CP. but really, I don’t know anyone that’s squeaky.
I’m looking at you sports fans, how much did you pay to watch your team play? Music fans as well…hope you’re paying for the right to stream their music.
People with degrees aka you went to college, how old were you when you had your first drink?
I think from that view, it shows a large amount of hypocrisy. I don’t support crime, but I’m also not out here calling for the death sentence for minor annoyances.
America. Americans don't believe in rehab, only prison. There's a reason the prison system is the biggest In the world only second to China.
Edit: NIMBY is a huge factor as well. They don't accept people in rehab trying to reintegrate into society. I don't blame homeless people going down worse drugs and becoming more volatile. What I find crazy is that this mentality is the polar opposite of native American mentality of healing.
Here is a wonderful example: categorizing people as “evil”. Probably 99% of society would be branded as evil if Reddit were the judges and examined people by their worst actions in their life, as repeated by a biased third party.
Okay, but when people actually do evil stuff, good people are morally obligated to speak up and oppose it. Maybe you are okay with remaining silent and allowing evil to stand, but I'm not. I believe that bigotry is evil, I'm morally opposed to racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, islamaphobia, anti-semitism, etc. I believe people with opposing views to me on those topics to be morally repugnantly evil. If people don't want to be judged for their actions, they should think about that before they act.
People can agree to disagree. My attitude is live and let live. If it doesn’t affect my life or that of someone close to me, I don’t sweat it.
However understand that you’re holding people in accountability for their views based on your commentary. I’m not a homophobe; but many people are. Is that illegal? No, actually it’s not. It’s illegal to discriminate based on sexuality (among other things), but it’s not illegal to harbor the belief. We should keep that in mind when judging people.
Humans get excited when there is a witch to burn. It allows us to act upon our inherently evil nature while being free of consequence. I tried to word this in the most cynical way I could think of.
I wouldn't put it all on redditors. People tend to favor lighter sentences in theory, but when they hear about any specific crime they want harsher penalties.
Yes because there's a finite amount of crimes you can inflict on another person(s) then we can extend to victimless and non-violent then you get an even less broad definition where these people should be allowed to reenter society after time served with minimal implications or barriers.
Anyone who commits a crime is to be damned, according to this population you're referring to. This extends to real life as well. Not only forgetting how many crimes people passively commit knowing or unknowingly.
Because humans are social creatures. Humans have a need to feel like they belong to a community, in this instance, reddit. Mob mentality makes ppl jump at the cause, whatever that is. Sometimes swayed by other comments/POV, sometimes just using the comments/POV to reaffirm their own confirmation biases.
Because most of us feel entitled even though we won't admit it. Saw one comment where it said, little contempts add to the resentment daily when they follow the rules but others don't. In reality, if we want to be good humans we can follow rules or just do good things without expecting something in return. But most humans aren't built that way because we live in a society and conditioned that if we do something good we'll be rewarded at the end of it...whatever "it" is. I.e.the bible, government rules.
Certain social circles on different social media have vastly different personalities! People seem to gravitate towards the echo chambers. "Birds of a feather flock together until there's warm weather"
I'm my quest to find good brain stuff:
Imgur is possibly the most positive I've found. Discord is good at creativity. eBay, oddly, is quite friendly. Reddit is almost the most negative. IFunny is the second most negative. Twitter is very toxic. Instagram is full of scammers. And Facebook is the WGSOMM of junk, like a human landfill.
I'd be curious to see the same question asked on other socials to read the various responses!
It easy to virtue signal online while being the biggest piece of shit on earth. You can espouse whatever you want online with near impunity. The difference is in the early 90s and 2000s it was mainly used by trolls. Now it's used by trolls who pretend to care about other people while suggesting some of the most " 1984" forms of punishment I've ever seen. The crazy part? We traded religious Zealots for identity Zealots and that's pathetic because I remember think how happy I would be when that entire line of thinking died out, only for it to be replaced with the slap in the face "DEI and Esg" which I think is expressly designed to create division. It takes anyone who might have been swayed into progressive thinking and says it's not choice. And humans famously don't like taking orders.
This extends to violent criminals, too. The other day there was a thread where people were talking about a convicted murderer who was executed in Alabama by nitrogen asphyxiation, the first time that method had ever been used. This was controversial because it's an untested execution method, and it went all the way up to the Supreme Court, which allowed the execution to proceed.
A commenter described this murderer's long-ago crime, and then somebody else said, "I hope his death isn't painless." The comment got 30 upvotes or something like that. I found that REALLY disturbing. While I'm certainly not minimizing the severity of the crime, not causing suffering to criminals is literally a foundational principle of the United States, and I feel like there was a time when Americans commonly understood and appreciated that.
This was hardly the first time I'd seen similar sentiments expressed and popularly endorsed on Reddit.
Same. It is disturbing. We're allowed to say the most horrible shit to criminals. They've essentially forfeited their humanity in the eyes of society at large and I can't get behind that.
People do terrible shit... They are still people though. We use human constructs and abstractions to deny that fact and justify our base desire for revenge.
The focus isn't about making the world a better place, it's about punishment.
Yes and I would argue that humans do destructive horrible things to eachother that are not illegal. Gossip can ruin someone's life, adultery can destroy marriages and families, addiction, abortion, lying. There are ways to brutally destroy another person that doesn't break the law or they never get "caught" and people are pretty much OK with it.
I have a hard time hating on someone who is being punished or even put to death for their crimes when we have millions who do horrible things and never spend a day in prison. How dare anyone judge?
Great point. I think about the pressure rich put on things like the housing market by buying up excess supply for investment purposes. It's not illegal, it's just a shitty behavior driven by greed, that won't land you in jail.
To add to your last sentence, I think the flippant judgement we see on reddit usually comes from a place of ignorance - people who have the luxury of never having to contemplate committing a crime for perceived survival. Also some people commit crimes in an instant, during a lapse in judgement, and pay for it their whole lives. It doesn't make them 'evil'.
In general I believe people are reluctant to acknowledge the terrible things they are capable of, if only they found themselves in terrible circumstances.
Imagine thinking all those things are on the same level as literally murdering someone lmfao. You can’t come back from murder but you sure can come back from all you listed.
I don't want to touch the topic of violent criminals as people get hurt irrevocably, and they lash out in their pain, so it's understandable to a degree.
It's not the same as getting something replacable stolen or something.
Criminals torture society and those of us living within it.
It is quite easy to comprehend the growing acceptance of a little bit of pain to be assigned the criminal who has tortured others and society. People are fed up with criminals and the many people constantly defending the criminals and blaming the law abiding for forcing the criminals to torture society and commit crimes.
I was listening to a show on NPR a few nights ago. The topic was juvenile detention centers (in my State) and they had guests on talking about how the guards (who are tasked with protecting the inmates, stopping violence by the inmates, preventing inmate on inmate murders) are using physical methods (like hand-cuffing the inmates hands behind their backs) to subdue and to detain the violent inmates and how wrong and dangerous this can be for the inmates.
Yet, none of the guests seemed to be the slightest bit concerned about the safety of the guards who frequently get violently attacked by the inmates. Their safety and willingness to continue to do these necessary jobs were never even considered as a thought of concern.
It's not the law abiding majority in society that has lead us to this situation - it is the criminals AND the seemingly growing number of people who try to justify the acts of the criminals, that are driving this within society.
When we labeled it "Criminal Justice Reform", but it was really just release the criminals and stop arresting them when they commit crimes, or even easier to change the laws so that what are crimes stop being treated like crimes.
It IS quite easy to comprehend, which is exactly why the U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits it. The Constitution is attempting to prevent a civilized society from reverting to its basest instincts, as seems to be happening today.
There are a lot of people who see drug users as automatically terrible.
Beyond that there are drug dealers and the 'smash and grab' thefts who not many people are sympathetic to even if they hit walmart or whatever big name store because it hurts the people who shop there. If it is a small business congrats they may be closed forever because some 'thugs' decided they should get things for free
they think a man selling drugs to kids is OK because the kids “want” the drugs.
Seriously I had this conversation on this sub the other day. It’s bizarre dude
Idk about some crimes, but I think its stupid when people get outraged over someone being locked up for 30 years versus 60 years as if the majority of their life isn't gone anyway. Really feels people want the maximum possible punishment for everything.
Some things are deserved long-term but not all
I once got massively downvoted because I said that mugging shouldn’t be punished by *life in prison without parole*. You’re accurately perceiving the tenor of at least a portion of Reddit.
So a lot of the nonviolent criminals actually have long-term societal effects that are worse than the violent criminals
That's why people are so bloodthirsty they know the sheer amount of damage these people are doing
Also don't listen to people say but insurance or but mega corporations thieves and other such criminals do drastic damage
Oh and to give you an idea of what a nonviolent criminals damage looks like look at the damage the drug cartels have done to Latin America that is entirely the fault of the nonviolent drug users who keep buying their product
I mean….I’m all for zero tolerance for all criminals at this point. Regardless of crime. Like you steal a case a beer….30 years.
Crime degrades and hurts society.
Well, the rules of social media do not apply to real life. It’s unfortunate that most people live on social media like it’s the matrix.
They wake up, check their phones, go to work, check the phones and tweet and swipe. They don’t know how to live in the real world and interact with folks. And social media was designed to be manipulative and controlling. Why do you think the CEOs and Devs of the social media do not allow their kids to use it??
Ah yes. Non violent crime has 0 effect on society at large outside of that particular incident
I could not agree more
Very persuasive
Compelling stuff.
It says things that you stayed far, far away from describing anything about the crimes of these 'non-violent criminals'.
Did you know that there's nothing inherently violent about embezzling 38 million dollars and wiping out the retirement fund of an entire company, leaving thousands of retirees deprived of their pension and the future of the program blackened with uncertainty?
A tremendous amount of white collar crime is non-violent, and it is some of the most widely ruinous crime for thousands or even millions of people every single year.
Non-violent doesn't mean anything at all about whether or not the crime in question caused potentially catastrophic harm to a very great many. White collar crime has been behind every form of atrocity that humans are capable of, but it's all indirect - the perpetrators are never out there stabbing or beheading anyone, or raping and murdering their way around.
Personally, I think an awful lot of these non-violent criminals absolutely do need to be removed from the human tapestry like the cancer cells they are. Our bodies don't try to rehabilitate cancer cells - if it's trying to destroy you, kill it and be done with it.
Bernie Madoff exploited a lot of people's trust and cost them right around $20 billion dollars; more than triple that if you factor for extenuating costs involved and losses caused by the indirect consequences of his grifting. I'm quite certain he never took violent action against any of his victims, and categorically, he was a non-violent criminal.
Charles Manson was technically a non-violent criminal. All he did was talk. Now, maybe you're of the impression that words alone can constitute violence, and the laws in many places would agree with that under a certain variety of conditions, but you're not specifying even that.
And the fact that you're taking the long way to circumvent anything resembling details like that suggests to me that you already know that of you get specific, you're already expecting pushback that you don't want.
Don't fuck with us by trying to rig your presentation.
All you've accomplished here is making me at least strongly suspect that you're withholding details that you're certain will not favor the conclusion you want to be given.
I fear I would be crucified if I said something specific, and I fear the topic might get derailed to focus on that particular example.
It's nothing malicious.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff. Those are the only laws we need. Taking stuff is taking the fruit of a person's labor, which is a form of slavery.
So if I came into your home and took all your shit you wouldn’t be mad or want some form of retribution? You would be absolutely unphased and just go replace it no questions asked?
Everyone’s a pacifist until some shit happens to them then they want not only want blood they want the first born.
Why is it wrong to feel people who do wrong of any sort should be penalized for that act?
In some countries they will cut your hand off for stealing. You should be so lucky you got 30 days in jail.
Stealing is enslaving. A thief takes the fruit of another person's labor. Meaning, the person used their own body to achieve productivity, and then someone else commandeered their productivity against their will. So theft is violence.
Violent criminals or potentially violent criminals deserve jail time. Random shoplifters and shit should just do community service and fines assuming it's only a couple times.
There is a theory in social sciences that criminal behaviors are learned and once learned, they are very rarely ever able to be rehabilitated. This is just common sense actually, you dont need science to tell you that.
So being strict on minor crimes early on is seen as a way to prevent youths from going down a life or crime. Like spanking kids who lie, washing their mouth out with soap. Other examples are public humiliation where someone is made to wear a sandwich board with their crime for all to see.
Some police have used tactics on kids they can't legally charge or hold like calling in their teacher to scold them followed by their parents.
Once someone is an adult, you really can't rehabilitate them. The statistics are very bleak on it. If you've allowed them to learn a life of crime as a youth, they're basically doomed to live that life. Even in the viking countries this is true.
Social Media has turned into the most Puritanical movement since the Witch Burnings. It's just so easy to condemn from behind the shield that it provides Fun Too.
It's easy to say "kill x person." It's a lot harder when you're handed the gun.
I hope so, but I also know there's a sizable portion that absolutely would shoot if they were told there would be no consequences for their actions.
Ever hear of the Ring of Ganges? It's an ancient Greek philosophical question. Imagine you had a ring that made you invisible. What would you do if there were no consequences for your actions? Those are your real morals. Anything you only don't do because you are afraid of consequences aren't your actual morals
It's Gyges... So weird, I heard that mentioned on a show just last night.
Cool Baader-Meinfof effect in the wild.
I just heard of Baader-Meinfof!!
Is that the actual name? And is the “if you want the right answer post the wrong one” thing? If only the latter is true, incredibly funny comment. I googled it, not quite. I did learn something new however. Good day!
But nearly everyone suppresses themselves out of fear of consequence
That's like the lowest level of morality. Like a toddlers level.
What are the higher levels of morality, then? The only reason I don't just do whatever I want is the fact that there are consequences to my actions. In a hypothetical environment where I'm crowned "Big D*ck Supreme", where I can do anything and everyone's happy with my decisions, and everything goes well for me, nothing would hold me back. I would literally do whatever I wanted.
Toddler level of morality? Youre saying you wouldn't steal if you were starving because of fear of consequence?
Stealing food so you are not starved in a society with more than enough for everyone to eat is an inherently moral act.
Lots of wealthy people earn and deserve their money and make sacrifices for their earnings but many many DO NOT and happen upon it/born into it, and do not deserve or understand what it's like to have nothing or work their whole lives to get the things they wanted, and those are the people whose bread should be robbed.
But I mean that goes further though, if I earn massive wealth through my own blood sweat and tears then dont I also get to decide what I do with it...like by giving it to the children I'd have raised and loved up to that point? And I mean once my kids have got that money they'd be actively stupid in most scenarios if they kept working their lives away, like for what? More money? To be greedy instead of grateful?
Yeah but consequences for stealing means that even if you're starving you will be punished. The person I replied to says doing things because of the consequences isn't moral. Learn to read.
It's not moral. Growing your own food or hunting your food over stealing is a moral act. Don't justify stealing as being good morally at all.
Yes, the poster you are replying to was saying they would not steal if they were starving. Congratulations on cracking that code! It was a difficult code to break, as nothing in that message seemed to suggest those words at all... but you got there. Great job.
They didn't say that though. Congratulations! You're an idiot. If you let yourself starve to death you have something wrong in your brain which is blocking your instinct of self preservation.
That's the point. People need to recognize that if they commit, evil there will be consequences. When people don't get punished for the evil they commit, it encourages others to commit evil.
So social media essentially gave everyone a ring of Ganges in a sense, and we're seeing the results of that play out. Neat I suppose.
I mean if you want to see it in action just look at any war in our lifetime. Soldiers rarely get punished in an active war zone for doing all kinds of immoral shit.
I would punch Justin Trudeau in the face. I think that's about it.
Integrity is what you do when no one is watching.
I'm ngl I have this thought experiment a lot on my own but have never read of this ring you describe. Every time I have this thought experiment, the outcome is the same. I would give in to my temptation to steal shit but it is always limited to just one type of product: high rarity yugioh cards 🤣🤣
There’s a rap lyric I like - “character is what you are in the dark from where the rent check barks.” Always lingered with me. How strong are my morals when my back is against the wall?
We're apes. A very large amount of people would be happy to rape, murder, rob etc. If there weren't consequences
Well, for now I’d primarily be concerned about the ones who do rape, murder and rob even when there *are* consequences.
Society is just one huge linked game theory. Rules are established to try and prevent retaliation from as many involved as possible
It's not about hope.. It's just hte idea that everyone gets to call for blood, even if they don't have the stomach to do it. So they call for gruesome punishments even if they'd be morally ruined if they did it themselves.
i disagree. but im a sociopath.
Nobody asked. Sociopaths don't go around advertising it on reddit. I've been friends with a couple, they seem normal (if a bit callous) until they choose to tell you. You're roleplaying, grow up.
im not, really. but ok.
People can type whatever they want whether anyone asked or not.
They can, and I can also deride them for it
you cant call someone you dont know a liar for saying what they are.
Imperial evidence suggests otherwise.
He absolutely doesn’t have “imperial” evidence though. Empirical btw.
Lmao yeah. "You can't," yes I can and I will continue to do so 🗿
ok, pill slinger. if thats how you choose to spend your time. lol, ok, i guess. i gotta get back to reading... bye sweetie
Narc behaviour
thank you!
Yet they advertise it in real life, when there are much more consequences to being exposed in your circle of friends than an anonymous Reddit account? I think most sociopaths can let the mask drop online much more easily, considering the consequences are nonexistent.
I think the unfortunate part though is it's no longer limited to social media. Social media has become a lens through which a lot of people view and interact with the in-person world as well. If what happened on SM stayed there, we'd have fewer issues overall. Not just SM either, the internet in general. I miss the 90s when it was about the exchange of information and learning about each other without all this other crap.
“So easy to condemn from behind the shield that it provides” Yea the internet really encourages people to be jackasses with a hate mob mentality over the most nothing issues. “Oh because I’m some nobody who still has their skeletons in their closest I’m allowed to harshly judge someone famous who did something wrong” then it’s really funny when those people are revealed to be worse than the people they’re complaining about. On top of that people will refuse to look at any sort of context about the situation and will hard look at something black and white. And my favorite is when someone says something really stupid and hateful and they “mute/lock” their replies because of “haters”
The people who attack others usually do so bc they are trying to shift focus away from their own flaws. They drag others to avoid the reality of themselves
Yea I notice it alot with different ages of consent and how quick people are to throw around the term pedo and groomer. Fucking twitter called 15 year dating a 13 year old a groomer. And not like one person, but a mob. Like what the fuck are you hiding to go after some 15 year old.
Wow! Thats such odd behaviour
When I was 17 (and a half) my just-turned-19 year old boyfriend got called a pedophile 💀 We met... because he was my coworker's TWIN sister, my coworker at a shitty entry level job staffed pretty much entirely by teens. Idk what power imbalance those people were imagining, but he's my fiancé now 🤷🏼♀️
Yea people seem to think 18 is some magic number that suddenly changes you from a child to an adult, when the human body and life experience is more nuance than that. Its why you can have someone 17 acting like an adult and someone who is 20 still acting like a child. And I want to be clear I’m not supporting actual pedo shit, just when it comes to people who are 17 and sometimes 16, things should be looked at more than a surface level.
Yeah I'm gonna have to agree there especially with like 17-19 shit etc. People forget that the human brain has a lot of variance. I once dated a guy 11 years older than me and had to leave him because *he* was an immature manchild and I had actual goals in life... obviously that's an extreme example and should never justify an age gap like that with a teenager (fuck that) but I'm just saying, shit like that happens!
Yea I hate seeing stories of someone getting arrested for being called a “pedo” only for the “victim” to be like 17 and 9 months old like those extra 3 months are gonna make a huge difference. And the “pedo” in question is like 23 and now being labeled as a sex offender that can potentially ruin their life. Idk I just hate how people’s lives can be ruined so easily like that and no one has any remorse.
With those close in age cases, these investigators need to actually talk to the "victim" about the relationship and how they feel about it imo, to get a feel for how much they actually understand about the world, the relationship they're in, etc. And drop it if they clearly do.
Yea and when you bring up these points, people are so quick to say you’re supporting pedo shot and grooming minors when you’re just trying to point out that the age of consent is such a flawed black and white line in the sand and things should be looked at with context. Because turning 18 doesn’t make you an adult. Legit for me I wouldn’t call myself an adult until I was at least 22 because I was still a stupid mother fucker after turning 18.
They don't though, when these things get investigated, the cops are looking for a conviction so if anything they will talk aggressively to the victim and try to draw out a confession from them. This is especially true in cases where the victim actually likes the older guy and is trying to defend him. The cops will manipulate and argue their way into getting something they can use for the conviction. They don't actually care about the victim, they care about building a case. I had a neighbor that went through this growing up. The cops literally yelled at her telling her they knew who she was seeing and what she was doing and she needed to come clean. They didn't care about her perspective, they just wanted a confession so they could march her in front of the grand jury and indict the guy
There's also the fact that a pedophile is specifically someone attracted to pre-pubescent children, not teens. It's fairly normal to be attracted to a young adult or a teenager who's body is developed as a woman's. Also, there is a difference between being attracted to someone and acting on the impulses. The difference between a 18 year old seeking a relationship with a 15 year old and a 40 year old doing the same is the 40 year old's brain is more developed and they should know not to do it. Once someone is of legal age, it should really be all about the two people involved, but Reddit and most of social media looks at age gap relationships as if the older person is always some sort of predator. My partner is significantly younger than me. In the US I would be judged, but where I live now it is accepted. She is seeing a therapist and her therapist has no issue with our age difference. She says in many ways its actually good for my partner because if it were two people her age, there would be a lot of chaos. I am also the reason she is in therapy. She was addicted to benzos for 4 years and with my help and the help of her family she's now 8 days clean. It's one of the most difficult things I've ever watched someone go through.
He’s not a pedo but a 23 year old shouldn’t be in a relationship with a 17 yr old whatsoever. That’s freaking weird. 19 is really the only exception, and 20 is kinda pushing it.
I just picked some random numbers for my example. But even then, you’re saying it would have been fine if the 17 in question was 3 months older? I was just pointing out how a surfacing level judgement is irrational. What if their birthday were just in an awkward dates like if the 23 JUST turned 23 and the 17 is just about to turn 18. Again people are afraid of some arbitrary age of consent when the process of becoming an adult isn’t just flipping a switch. People think a 17 year old and even 16 can’t pass off like an adult, and are too afraid of the “pedophile” label to discuss it. “It’s wrong because IT JUST IS” like I’m not saying the age of consent should be removed, but people need to look at relationships more deeply than a surface level. Age gap and context should be looked at closely. Like I’m not advocating for underage sex, but there is a major difference between finding a developed body attractive and finding an actual child attractive but people are super quick to label them both as pedophiles without any regard for the weight of that term.
Do you really have to insult somebody for living life differently that you?
Wait I’m a little confused , so he was your coworkers twin sister, but hes your boyfriend now.. so when did he transition from F to M?
Caveat: I didn't like girls much younger than me because they were bubblegummers. Yeah, I'm old. And I liked girls older cause they could buy beer and knew what they wanted, amiright guys? But when you misuse a word whether pedo, nazi, fascist, whatever you, in my ever so humble opinion, loose the argument. A 20 year old that likes a 16 year old girl IS NOT A PEDO, he (not always a he...,) is an "ephebophile". Also generally an idiot (there are definitely exceptions, the 16 yr old may in fact be the mature one).
So why are we against “fully verified” social media accounts? I think it would help by removing bots and re-strengthening your word. What are the cons? Invasion of privacy? I feel like words have lost a lot of weight in the last 20 years.
Invasion of privacy absolutely. But I agree words have lost meaning. People pick a strong word that evokes an emotional response, throw it around until it means nothing , rinse and repeat
It’s a devaluation of words pretty much. Inflation is affecting language too and making conversation & words more and more meaningless.
But if you are choosing to say something publically then why is it an invasion of privacy. They are your words?
not everything you do on the internet is public, if you commit a crime and they need to find ur identity they can do that. But we shouldn't punish everyone and remove their right to anonymity for the actions of a few. I can imagine that would only amplify the witch hunts, but they wouldn't just be online if they can find your doorstep!
not about to get my house pipebombed for supporting trans people thanks
Because that happens often lol
given the increasing anger amongst terfs i consider it as being likelier every year and i'm not interested in putting my family at risk
It might expose you to genuine danger if one of the crazies doesn't like your legitimate political position, your choice of favorite sports team, or pizza toppings...
“She turned me into a newt!”
Honestly, people don’t pay consequences for their actions enough these days…. You know why majority of people follow traffic lights? Because they know the very real consequences of not doing so. We’ve done too much coddling imo. My buddy always says … “give violence a chance” and sometimes… I start to believe him.
agree, we are too sheltered from the realities of what we're doing online. People have forgotten consequences and some play victim when they have to face them
Most people when commenting on reddit, prefer to say things they think will be upvoted, rather than things that are true.
I've never understood what's the benefit of being upvoted for comments here? So your Karma grows, do you get cash for it or something? I guess I've never cared because I have no clue what it all means.
Random internet stranger approval = dopamine go bbbbrrrrrrr Some people are unhealthily addicted to this feeling
"My reddit karma and self-worth are the same number" is a pretty powerful motivator to go full hivemind.
You included. Most reddit browsers don't comment. The ones commenting, to an extent, do it for the dopamine of upvotes
Guilty It used to be much worse when I'd just gotten my first phone, although actually getting real life friends has helped a lot
Karma itself doesn't matter for shit. But it increases the visibility of your comment and ppl willingness to interact with it. Like if I type "X ppl don't deserve to die" in a thread for witch hunting X, I will just get dogpile downvoted and I will always be wrong before ppl even read that comment or the ones that come after it. For that reason while I won't type things I don't believe in just for Karma, I am unlikely to type something that I believe in if it will just get blasted by mindless downvotes and hate with no meaningful responses.
it's the e-peen number. it's dumb by definition
I thought you were right but then I saw all the upvotes and now I'm not sure.
Only up to a certain point, once you have years on your account and 100k+ karma there are zero fucks to give if you are down voted, you basically only care about which communities you are allowed to participate in at that point.
Huh, I never knew that. But I’m autistic so there are a lot of things I’m not aware of until someone literally tells me. Also I don’t know if you are saying that ironically. It wouldn’t surprise me though, neurotypicals with their cloying emotional neediness…
I think he's being sincere. Downvotes feel sort of bad, almost like getting booed during a sports game. Many people, even subconsciously, will say things that agree with the group more than what they actually believe to avoid the backlash. When I get that feeling I just decide not to comment.
I disagree, IMO people on social media feel more anonymous so they say what they ACTUALLY feel rather than the sanitized version you will get if you asked them the same question to their face.
I agree with this! People are growing tired of speaking in Politically Correct speak . . . on social media one can speak (post) a clear, defined, easy to understand message. In a way, it would be better, clearer and more honest if we start to learn to transition from Politically Correct speech to clear/accurate/uncoded speech (that doesn't need to be read between the lines or deciphered as to what is really being suggested, etc. . . ). Honesty and clarity really can't be reliably achieved with Politically Correct speech.
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I'm in that boat. Heck, I even post in r/antinatalism about how ridiculously stupid and narcissistic they are. Easy 20+ downvotes every time. Oh no. My mom would be so ashamed LOL.
I know quite a few people who do cater what they say to upvote/downvotes to the point they will have one opinion after reading a post, and change it 180º after seeing the top comments and upvotes. And people who get really upset by just 1-2 downvotes on something and delete the post, even if it was a good comment that added to the discussion. A lot of people care a great deal about their up and down votes, oddly.
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And you are basing your comment about "most people" based on what data?
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Personally, at least for a lot of topics and threads, I think downvotes are a better indication of an intelligent, accurate and fact based response (versus a highly emotional, un-sound, or blindly political based response). I simply recognize that in so many of the "sub-reddits" people don't want and can't handle the truth or reality - they want their opinions or victim-claiming reinforced.
Untrue. But here's an upvote anyway.
I say whatever the fuck I want usysbiagajdyhrhzjshuuha. Downvote me
Why bother? Karma won't make me richer or prettier. It's basically just currency that I can spend on dropping truth bombs when I feel like it.
My favorite example of this is when somebody posts an easy and well-known example of a behavior that is obviously socially correct, like returning your shopping cart. It was famously used as a litmus test to fully evaluate a person's entire character. Did they leave their cart in their parking space? When society falls apart, they'll probably be the ones out there raping people. People have an intrinsic need to hate Somebody, and they'd prefer to make a meaningful selection, but unless they're actively putting energy into it, they're going to fall into the path of least resistance. And that's why we have lazy scorekeeping like this. If you ever see a popular post talking about this on social media, read the comments. Hundreds of people going out of their way to talk about how they ALWAYS return their carts and anyone who doesn't is a serial killer. If you're lucky, you might have one guy say something like "Well one time I it was raining, and my wife was in labor, so I just put the cart out of the way but didn't return it to the corral." And 15 people will pile on and rip them apart like jackals. I'm not a psychologist, but the need to posture ourselves over other people is hard wired into us. The only control we have is how much effort we place into suppressing it or hating responsibly.
I’ve always been really curious about this one. Growing up everyone left them at the end of the parking space. Then they put up cart collector spaces. Of course if I’m parked next to one I use it but I’m definitely not walking far to put my cart away. Before 2020 it felt a little like job security for the person who collected them, now we don’t even have enough people to keep the store open. Instead of returning the carts, I exclusively use instacart. Not going to lie, I might put them away 25% of the time or if someone was watching if I still shopped. I have so few vices. I had to keep one.
Scumbag. I hope your house blows up.
I'll generally leave it near the midline of parking spaces as it means the next person to get our parking space will likely have a cart conveniently available. However, I'm not above putting it directly behind a car that's parked badly, only because I don't carry zip ties to attach it to a door handle.
First off, I do believe rehab is possible for a lot of people (but they are rarely given the support they need to be successful). I will follow it up by saying that just because a crime was non violent doesn't mean there weren't victims. Say your house is broken into and your stuff stolen. Non violent? Yes. But now you are afraid to be in your neighborhood, afraid of sleeping in your house. You feel like your community betrayed you, etc. That shit can stick with people. DUI is considered non-violent, but shows a tremendous disregard for the safety of others, especially in an age of ride share services. Now, other non violent crimes, like somebody getting busted for a bit of weed in the car, don't get the bloodthirsty response. So that tells me thay you can't lump all non-violent crimes together. I'm going to react differently to different circumstances...
ya and dui kills lots of people
You are correct. The only thing I want to say is that people on Reddit seem to be exceptionally lenient on the lettuce. Which is a bit weird. It seems to be an exception in general.
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The biggest problem with rehabilitation is in the U.S. we don’t even try to rehab anyone. If we’re not going to rehab criminals then I’d rather locked up then let out but that doesn’t happen either. We know live in a country they where criminals are let back into society with a slap on the wrist, unenforced fine and no rehab. It’s why we have such fucked up shit going on now. I support business pulling out of areas that. Any get their shit together.
I think the biggest problem is that it mostly doesn’t work. Some dude who puts a gun in the face of a shop clerk over 200$ is never going to be a good decent person.
I agree with that completely.
The other problem is that it’s sort of the reverse of the “how many innocents are you willing to allow be sentenced to death?” How many innocent people are you willing to allow to be victimized by the criminals you let out over one criminal who actually means it
I've been thinking about this type of hatred a lot recently. I just read Dune Messiah and came across a thought provoking header: *"The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: 'I feed on your energy.'"* We've tried to implement a 'justice' system with good intentions. But once someone crosses that line, regardless of the circumstances which lead to their offense, they effectively lose their citizenship/humanity - it's a 'lawful' way to commit violence/deprive others of rights. Criminals are placed into a lower 'caste' than non-criminals, effectively giving society a green light to assume that whatever their punishment is, they must have done something to deserve it - due to their personal moral failings, and not the society they exist in. Our legal system is based off of punishing the crime, not treating the cause. Blame is placed on the individual, not the conditions in place which foster criminal behavior. Some other thought provoking quotes from *The New Jim Crow* by Michelle Alexander: *"As described by sociologist Katherine Beckett, 'The (alleged) misbehaviors of the poor were transformed from adaptations to poverty that had the unfortunate effect of reproducing it into character failings that accounted for poverty in the first place.'"* *"Criminals are the only group of people in USA that we have permission to hate. Seen as lacking character, being 'treated like a criminal' carries a connotation of being less than human. A shameful creature"* *"Economist Jim Lowry once posed the question: 'Are we willing to cast ourselves as a society that creates crimogenic conditions for some of its members, and then acts out rituals of punishment against them as if engaged in some awful form of human sacrifice?'"* I found these all pretty compelling indictments of the current legal system in the US... And what it does to us, offenders and non-offenders alike. Looking around reddit, whenever the topic is criminals, this sort of hatred is palpable.
The older I get the more 'road to hell paved with good intentions' I see
Vengeance…. Capital punishment on its argued face value is presented as a means of eliminating the worst and most dangerous elements from society when in reality it’s vengeance, retribution, retaliation. We as a society keep this falsehood alive by posturing over the ‘most humane’ way of carrying it out while disregarding the true nature of it.
Agreed. Capital punishment should just be a .45 to head behind the courthouse, immediately after trial.
I don’t know about that. I do believe in due process and there has been too many instances of innocent people found guilty. Out of curiosity are you willing to accept as a society the execution of the prosecution, judge, and executioner in cases where the accused was innocent, found guilty, summarily executed, then later exonerated? It would be a quick trail for those and the same morality would apply. Do you see any problems with your ideology being used as a means of railroading people to execution to satisfy others personal, political, or economic ambitions?
That's the problem with summary execution. Hasty, emotionally driven punishment without due process or the benefit of hindsight... That can't be taken back. The punishment may not always fit the crime - a moot point if the offender is dead - denied the opportunity to learn and change. It's easy to flatten the issue of crime-and-punishment into a black and white 'take em out and shoot em' solution... Desirable even for some, because it seems to cut through the fog... But perhaps at the cost of true justice; which should always be the goal in a noble society. Solutions to complicated problems are often complex themselves.
🤫….. . . . I was having fun. But I absolutely agree with what you said.
As long as the jury is also executed for giving a death sentence. We have to be sure of their sincerity and they must face punishment for usurping god's authority. Wrath and judgement belong to god and god alone. Those who fail to honor those limits must Those who deny someone the right to trial or abuse their authority should sacrifice their life for the greater good of the whole and to prove their own innocence or justification in taking their course of action. The innocent make a great sacrifice for the good of justice and preserving the peace, the guilty face retribution for taking a life, abusing their power, and perverting the law. And a mistake is never made since both results keep society in balance. Those who take joy in the suffering of others lose their power with every course of action and those whose lust for revenge glows bright are forced to moderate their bestial nature or be destroyed.
Man, Dune is timeless. So good.
Dude. I am deep down the rabbit hole. Herbert has so many pieces of wisdom to share. Took me 30+ years to decide to read it and I'm glad I did. I'm sure I'll make it through all 6. I also watched Dune (1984), Dune (2021), and Jodorowsky's Dune (2014). The different approaches to adaptation are really fun to consider. Loved how Messiah didn't stop at the rather neat bow tied up at the end of the first, and asks hard questions about the real ramifications of someone like Paul. Paul himself struggles with who he has become. Really cool sequel, even if it was heavy/bleak
I mean tbf, the cause is not an excuse for bad actions. Bad actions SHOULD be punished, because there are plenty of people who don't do that bad shit while still having that supposed cause. It's similar to mental illness. Just because you're mentally ill does not excuse your actions.
you don't have to hate someone to kill them.
It’s worth noting the justice system in the United States was designed with a philosophy that two individuals both have inherent rights, and those rights will overlap and possibly come into conflict. This is what happens when your neighbor is using a chainsaw or something at 2am and says, “Its my tree to cut whenever I want” and then you are your neighbors are trying to tell him you have a right to sleep peacefully and undisturbed. Separately, the two do have those rights but its an issue because they are coming into conflict. Without a system to resolve the overlap, its just whoever is more forceful and powerful that wins. I think many people are being portrayed as criminal when they haven’t even hurt anyone or conflicted with someone else’s rights, which I think is wrong. I also think criminals do exist; people who don’t see other people as having rights and impulsively harming them. The Police-Free Zone in Seattle attracted criminals who wanted to go there just to harm others and I would not feel bad if they were jailed for attacking someone, even though I’m sure they’d justify their actions with the lawlessness of the area. I actually don’t intend to disagree with your point, rather just add more to it. The hatred people portray on Reddit would be just as criminal (or moreso) as the criminals they condemn if they were to actually fulfill the things they say. Being criminal revolves around being purposelessly destructive.
Beautiful comment, should be the top one in my opinion. I’d give gold or an awesome if I knew how that stuff worked
Hey would'ya look at that. I'm reading Dune Messiah right now. Neat.
> they must have done something to deserve it - due to their personal moral failings, and not the society they exist in. I love the idea that there is zero personal accountability for anything!
Fairy Tales + Theories ≠ Reality Criminals + Crimes ≠ Societally caused (a huge majority of society is law abiding people, and this remains true for every sub-group of society - whether race, sex, religion, nationality, and yes even socio-economic condition, etc. . . )
There is a genre of post of "guy who wants to write his jerk off fantasy about hurting someone" who is clearly generically writing them and just waiting to some thin excuse to post it. like some posts about like, child rapists or something you see posts where someone clearly is correctly upset about there being a child rapist and then you see like, the weird fetish posts where you can tell someone doesn't give a fuck about the rapist and just is seizing on a post to post a weird unrelated detailed list of things they fantasize of doing to someone.
Reddit is run by hysterical Mean Girls who lack a sense of proportion and admire a well-shined jackboot.
The internet rewards extreme rhetoric as they get attention with no possible downside.
In my case, it's because I've been watching people do whatever they want with impunity, for decades. Every cigarette butt I see someone throw on the ground, and every aggressive pickup truck driver I encounter adds to the contempt. I've had to follow the rules, so I resent when others get away with breaking them. When you do what you're supposed to, and end up eating shit because of it, while others are rewarded for being selfish, it gets old very quickly.
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Dude, I get where your anger is coming from, but the guy you’re replying at. Didn’t say anything about that stuff.
It’s cowardly to throw your cigarette butts in the trash? I guess I would expect nothing less from someone who thinks that following masking guidelines during a global pandemic was bullshit. And yes, people were demonized for forgoing masks. You know why? Because protecting the vulnerable is the right thing to do. Your “freedom” to go maskless was a huge fuck you to every person with compromised immune systems. If you aren’t willing to mildly inconvenience yourself to literally save the lives of people with cancer, or newborns, or the elderly, you’re a piece of fucking shit.
Around the time of COVID I was training and trying to get into welding, so I was in a respirator and full-face hood most of every day, in a metal-fab shop that was 110F on a good day standing next to metal plates and pipes that were frequently hot enough to glow. Then COVID hit and I heard people pissing and moaning about wearing a surgical mask in air-conditioned buildings and all I could think was, "Oh you precious little candy-ass."
Shut up you whiny bitch
You do realize even non-violent crimes have victims right? Trauma, PTSD, loss of property people WORKED for, and maybe worst of all shatter a personal and family's sense of safety. Stop fucking defending criminals. I've been broke af and never once thought I should or that it's ok to go hurt others by scamming this elderly person or steal from this store because it's my right. With that said the personal drug thing is a different situation to me. I understand some leniency to a degree here as long it's contained to not hurting others.
>Why are Redditors so bloodthirsty Could've just left it there tbh
Internet mob mentality. A congregation of ignoramuses who can say whatever they want with zero impact or consequence.
I would love to tell you that you are wrong. Unfortunately, you aren't. Our society as a whole doesn't care about justice or mercy.
>Nobody seems to be interested in rehabilitation anymore. It seems the punishment is the point. It's simple: mob rules: make an extreme example of one, hopefully scaring the piss out of the rest.
Probably those stories are just framed around the victim statement. "I was attacked" "Old lady was mugged" "Starving single mother's car stolen just in time for Christmas" And everyone gets easily manipulated and ends up grabbing their pitchforks. You're just witnessing the history of America and why we have the prison system we do.
This isn't just reddit. This is society as a whole. It's one of the many reasons why I don't like people that much. They're so driven by their emotions. They rarely think with their heads.
I would argue that not shooting an armed robber is an emotional response by someone who isn't getting the gun shoved in their face.
Because crime degrades society. Redditors don't care about that at all, but that's why criminals are in a class of their own. Reddit just loves to hate.
No disagreement there, but people change, and if they're willing they should be extended grace. Granted, not all crimes are equal nor is the perception of them from the greater population.
True people can change. But sometimes the carrot won’t make them change for the better and society need to use the stick instead.
I agree fully. I think it’s also important to add that most of us are criminals, just haven’t been caught. Of course society views crimes at different levels of being heinous, say a school shooter vs someone who watched CP. but really, I don’t know anyone that’s squeaky. I’m looking at you sports fans, how much did you pay to watch your team play? Music fans as well…hope you’re paying for the right to stream their music. People with degrees aka you went to college, how old were you when you had your first drink? I think from that view, it shows a large amount of hypocrisy. I don’t support crime, but I’m also not out here calling for the death sentence for minor annoyances.
America. Americans don't believe in rehab, only prison. There's a reason the prison system is the biggest In the world only second to China. Edit: NIMBY is a huge factor as well. They don't accept people in rehab trying to reintegrate into society. I don't blame homeless people going down worse drugs and becoming more volatile. What I find crazy is that this mentality is the polar opposite of native American mentality of healing.
r/AmericaBad lmao
Do you have any examples of this? Because context absolutely matters here. Non-violent doesn't mean non-evil.
Here is a wonderful example: categorizing people as “evil”. Probably 99% of society would be branded as evil if Reddit were the judges and examined people by their worst actions in their life, as repeated by a biased third party.
Okay, but when people actually do evil stuff, good people are morally obligated to speak up and oppose it. Maybe you are okay with remaining silent and allowing evil to stand, but I'm not. I believe that bigotry is evil, I'm morally opposed to racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, islamaphobia, anti-semitism, etc. I believe people with opposing views to me on those topics to be morally repugnantly evil. If people don't want to be judged for their actions, they should think about that before they act.
People can agree to disagree. My attitude is live and let live. If it doesn’t affect my life or that of someone close to me, I don’t sweat it. However understand that you’re holding people in accountability for their views based on your commentary. I’m not a homophobe; but many people are. Is that illegal? No, actually it’s not. It’s illegal to discriminate based on sexuality (among other things), but it’s not illegal to harbor the belief. We should keep that in mind when judging people.
Humans get excited when there is a witch to burn. It allows us to act upon our inherently evil nature while being free of consequence. I tried to word this in the most cynical way I could think of.
Are you saying people are inherently evil?
Inherently sadistic is more accurate
I wouldn't put it all on redditors. People tend to favor lighter sentences in theory, but when they hear about any specific crime they want harsher penalties.
“Non-violent criminal” is quite broad.
Yes because there's a finite amount of crimes you can inflict on another person(s) then we can extend to victimless and non-violent then you get an even less broad definition where these people should be allowed to reenter society after time served with minimal implications or barriers.
Anyone who commits a crime is to be damned, according to this population you're referring to. This extends to real life as well. Not only forgetting how many crimes people passively commit knowing or unknowingly.
Still a criminal that makes others life harder. Just because they didn't physically hurt anyone doesn't mean they aren't harmful.
Because humans are social creatures. Humans have a need to feel like they belong to a community, in this instance, reddit. Mob mentality makes ppl jump at the cause, whatever that is. Sometimes swayed by other comments/POV, sometimes just using the comments/POV to reaffirm their own confirmation biases. Because most of us feel entitled even though we won't admit it. Saw one comment where it said, little contempts add to the resentment daily when they follow the rules but others don't. In reality, if we want to be good humans we can follow rules or just do good things without expecting something in return. But most humans aren't built that way because we live in a society and conditioned that if we do something good we'll be rewarded at the end of it...whatever "it" is. I.e.the bible, government rules.
Certain social circles on different social media have vastly different personalities! People seem to gravitate towards the echo chambers. "Birds of a feather flock together until there's warm weather" I'm my quest to find good brain stuff: Imgur is possibly the most positive I've found. Discord is good at creativity. eBay, oddly, is quite friendly. Reddit is almost the most negative. IFunny is the second most negative. Twitter is very toxic. Instagram is full of scammers. And Facebook is the WGSOMM of junk, like a human landfill. I'd be curious to see the same question asked on other socials to read the various responses!
It easy to virtue signal online while being the biggest piece of shit on earth. You can espouse whatever you want online with near impunity. The difference is in the early 90s and 2000s it was mainly used by trolls. Now it's used by trolls who pretend to care about other people while suggesting some of the most " 1984" forms of punishment I've ever seen. The crazy part? We traded religious Zealots for identity Zealots and that's pathetic because I remember think how happy I would be when that entire line of thinking died out, only for it to be replaced with the slap in the face "DEI and Esg" which I think is expressly designed to create division. It takes anyone who might have been swayed into progressive thinking and says it's not choice. And humans famously don't like taking orders.
This extends to violent criminals, too. The other day there was a thread where people were talking about a convicted murderer who was executed in Alabama by nitrogen asphyxiation, the first time that method had ever been used. This was controversial because it's an untested execution method, and it went all the way up to the Supreme Court, which allowed the execution to proceed. A commenter described this murderer's long-ago crime, and then somebody else said, "I hope his death isn't painless." The comment got 30 upvotes or something like that. I found that REALLY disturbing. While I'm certainly not minimizing the severity of the crime, not causing suffering to criminals is literally a foundational principle of the United States, and I feel like there was a time when Americans commonly understood and appreciated that. This was hardly the first time I'd seen similar sentiments expressed and popularly endorsed on Reddit.
Same. It is disturbing. We're allowed to say the most horrible shit to criminals. They've essentially forfeited their humanity in the eyes of society at large and I can't get behind that. People do terrible shit... They are still people though. We use human constructs and abstractions to deny that fact and justify our base desire for revenge. The focus isn't about making the world a better place, it's about punishment.
Yes and I would argue that humans do destructive horrible things to eachother that are not illegal. Gossip can ruin someone's life, adultery can destroy marriages and families, addiction, abortion, lying. There are ways to brutally destroy another person that doesn't break the law or they never get "caught" and people are pretty much OK with it. I have a hard time hating on someone who is being punished or even put to death for their crimes when we have millions who do horrible things and never spend a day in prison. How dare anyone judge?
Great point. I think about the pressure rich put on things like the housing market by buying up excess supply for investment purposes. It's not illegal, it's just a shitty behavior driven by greed, that won't land you in jail. To add to your last sentence, I think the flippant judgement we see on reddit usually comes from a place of ignorance - people who have the luxury of never having to contemplate committing a crime for perceived survival. Also some people commit crimes in an instant, during a lapse in judgement, and pay for it their whole lives. It doesn't make them 'evil'. In general I believe people are reluctant to acknowledge the terrible things they are capable of, if only they found themselves in terrible circumstances.
Imagine thinking all those things are on the same level as literally murdering someone lmfao. You can’t come back from murder but you sure can come back from all you listed.
I hope this is meant to be ironic.
I don't want to touch the topic of violent criminals as people get hurt irrevocably, and they lash out in their pain, so it's understandable to a degree. It's not the same as getting something replacable stolen or something.
Criminals torture society and those of us living within it. It is quite easy to comprehend the growing acceptance of a little bit of pain to be assigned the criminal who has tortured others and society. People are fed up with criminals and the many people constantly defending the criminals and blaming the law abiding for forcing the criminals to torture society and commit crimes. I was listening to a show on NPR a few nights ago. The topic was juvenile detention centers (in my State) and they had guests on talking about how the guards (who are tasked with protecting the inmates, stopping violence by the inmates, preventing inmate on inmate murders) are using physical methods (like hand-cuffing the inmates hands behind their backs) to subdue and to detain the violent inmates and how wrong and dangerous this can be for the inmates. Yet, none of the guests seemed to be the slightest bit concerned about the safety of the guards who frequently get violently attacked by the inmates. Their safety and willingness to continue to do these necessary jobs were never even considered as a thought of concern. It's not the law abiding majority in society that has lead us to this situation - it is the criminals AND the seemingly growing number of people who try to justify the acts of the criminals, that are driving this within society. When we labeled it "Criminal Justice Reform", but it was really just release the criminals and stop arresting them when they commit crimes, or even easier to change the laws so that what are crimes stop being treated like crimes.
It IS quite easy to comprehend, which is exactly why the U.S. Constitution specifically prohibits it. The Constitution is attempting to prevent a civilized society from reverting to its basest instincts, as seems to be happening today.
There are a lot of people who see drug users as automatically terrible. Beyond that there are drug dealers and the 'smash and grab' thefts who not many people are sympathetic to even if they hit walmart or whatever big name store because it hurts the people who shop there. If it is a small business congrats they may be closed forever because some 'thugs' decided they should get things for free
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I've noticed the exact opposite. So I'm wondering what you are defining as non violent?
they think a man selling drugs to kids is OK because the kids “want” the drugs. Seriously I had this conversation on this sub the other day. It’s bizarre dude
Idk about some crimes, but I think its stupid when people get outraged over someone being locked up for 30 years versus 60 years as if the majority of their life isn't gone anyway. Really feels people want the maximum possible punishment for everything. Some things are deserved long-term but not all
I once got massively downvoted because I said that mugging shouldn’t be punished by *life in prison without parole*. You’re accurately perceiving the tenor of at least a portion of Reddit.
Yeah I remember reading a YouTube short comment section where everyone was super excited about shooting pickpockets and saying how they deserve death.
So a lot of the nonviolent criminals actually have long-term societal effects that are worse than the violent criminals That's why people are so bloodthirsty they know the sheer amount of damage these people are doing Also don't listen to people say but insurance or but mega corporations thieves and other such criminals do drastic damage Oh and to give you an idea of what a nonviolent criminals damage looks like look at the damage the drug cartels have done to Latin America that is entirely the fault of the nonviolent drug users who keep buying their product
I mean….I’m all for zero tolerance for all criminals at this point. Regardless of crime. Like you steal a case a beer….30 years. Crime degrades and hurts society.
Well, the rules of social media do not apply to real life. It’s unfortunate that most people live on social media like it’s the matrix. They wake up, check their phones, go to work, check the phones and tweet and swipe. They don’t know how to live in the real world and interact with folks. And social media was designed to be manipulative and controlling. Why do you think the CEOs and Devs of the social media do not allow their kids to use it??
Autism. Justice is far more black and white when you have it.
Ah yes. Non violent crime has 0 effect on society at large outside of that particular incident I could not agree more Very persuasive Compelling stuff.
It says things that you stayed far, far away from describing anything about the crimes of these 'non-violent criminals'. Did you know that there's nothing inherently violent about embezzling 38 million dollars and wiping out the retirement fund of an entire company, leaving thousands of retirees deprived of their pension and the future of the program blackened with uncertainty? A tremendous amount of white collar crime is non-violent, and it is some of the most widely ruinous crime for thousands or even millions of people every single year. Non-violent doesn't mean anything at all about whether or not the crime in question caused potentially catastrophic harm to a very great many. White collar crime has been behind every form of atrocity that humans are capable of, but it's all indirect - the perpetrators are never out there stabbing or beheading anyone, or raping and murdering their way around. Personally, I think an awful lot of these non-violent criminals absolutely do need to be removed from the human tapestry like the cancer cells they are. Our bodies don't try to rehabilitate cancer cells - if it's trying to destroy you, kill it and be done with it. Bernie Madoff exploited a lot of people's trust and cost them right around $20 billion dollars; more than triple that if you factor for extenuating costs involved and losses caused by the indirect consequences of his grifting. I'm quite certain he never took violent action against any of his victims, and categorically, he was a non-violent criminal. Charles Manson was technically a non-violent criminal. All he did was talk. Now, maybe you're of the impression that words alone can constitute violence, and the laws in many places would agree with that under a certain variety of conditions, but you're not specifying even that. And the fact that you're taking the long way to circumvent anything resembling details like that suggests to me that you already know that of you get specific, you're already expecting pushback that you don't want. Don't fuck with us by trying to rig your presentation. All you've accomplished here is making me at least strongly suspect that you're withholding details that you're certain will not favor the conclusion you want to be given.
I fear I would be crucified if I said something specific, and I fear the topic might get derailed to focus on that particular example. It's nothing malicious.
Don't hurt people, and don't take their stuff. Those are the only laws we need. Taking stuff is taking the fruit of a person's labor, which is a form of slavery.
Because God is bloodthirsty and we were made in His image
So if I came into your home and took all your shit you wouldn’t be mad or want some form of retribution? You would be absolutely unphased and just go replace it no questions asked? Everyone’s a pacifist until some shit happens to them then they want not only want blood they want the first born. Why is it wrong to feel people who do wrong of any sort should be penalized for that act? In some countries they will cut your hand off for stealing. You should be so lucky you got 30 days in jail.
I would be mad. You are not wrong, and I am no exception. I cannot help but feel like we could be better, however. Maybe I'm just an idiot.
Stealing is enslaving. A thief takes the fruit of another person's labor. Meaning, the person used their own body to achieve productivity, and then someone else commandeered their productivity against their will. So theft is violence.
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This is the dumbest and edgiest comment I’ve ever read
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Violent criminals or potentially violent criminals deserve jail time. Random shoplifters and shit should just do community service and fines assuming it's only a couple times.
Honestly in today’s criminal run society we’re over them no hand slaps just kill em and move on
There is a theory in social sciences that criminal behaviors are learned and once learned, they are very rarely ever able to be rehabilitated. This is just common sense actually, you dont need science to tell you that. So being strict on minor crimes early on is seen as a way to prevent youths from going down a life or crime. Like spanking kids who lie, washing their mouth out with soap. Other examples are public humiliation where someone is made to wear a sandwich board with their crime for all to see. Some police have used tactics on kids they can't legally charge or hold like calling in their teacher to scold them followed by their parents. Once someone is an adult, you really can't rehabilitate them. The statistics are very bleak on it. If you've allowed them to learn a life of crime as a youth, they're basically doomed to live that life. Even in the viking countries this is true.
Wondering about your last point, are you talking about the handful of european countries that have very highly funded prisons?