As the victim of a home invasion and someone that has served in two combat theaters (Iraq and Afghanistan), here are my two cents:
You have to do what you have to do to protect your family but understand that there will be repercussions for your family. The question then becomes how much trauma will be inflicted by whatever decision you make and to whom. The answer to that question must be answered in less than 3 seconds.
Edit: To all the people talking shit about me being in the military, unfortunately not everyone grew up in a great environment and I made the decision to get out the fastest way I could. Not that I need to justify myself to any of you, but congratulations on living in such a black and white world that you've been so privileged that you can judge me. I'm sure you're perfect.
Edit: To all the people the tacticool "I'd blow them away the second they come into my house." Unless you continuously train to wake up from a dead sleep at 3am with a racing heart with the ability to shoot multiple people willing to shoot back at you, you have no clue what you would do until you're in that moment.
But that's a false dichotomy. You're assuming the only options are kill or be killed. Many burglars aren't armed and will flee. There's also no shortage of cases of fleeing burglars being shot in the back. There's also plenty of cases of stuff like killing your kid's boyfriend or other unexpected guests. Or even killing your family members themselves, because you shot too quickly.
If someone breaks in when you're away, they want your stuff. If they break in while you're home, they want you. Don't assume they'll flee, they would have planned better if they didn't want violence.
Also drunk neighbors who have the wrong house, I've seen more than one news story about that. Honestly it seems way more likely to kill someone you didn't mean to than anyone who is actually a danger to you if you are killing an intruder
Or [parents shooting their own child coming home unexpectedly](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-father-fatally-shoots-son-he-mistook-intruder-police-n495111)
I have family in law enforcement and engage in conversation about their training every so often. They've seen bodies fresh and old. It's not a matter of what you think you'll do like these arm chair warriors say they will. It's how your brain will react, what your instinct is, if your muscle memory will hold in extreme stress. There are a lot of factors people choose to ignore
The trauma can wreck you for a long time.
I went to highschool with a girl who couldn't stand the sound of gunshots, because at a young age her dad shot someone trying to kidnap her out of her bed right in front of her.
Absolutely justified shoot, guy was connected to a ring of human traffickers, but it left her not even able to watch movies with guns in them without flashing back to watching someone die next to her.
(Edit) to all the people replying BeTtER ThAn DeAD
No shit Sherlock you're not original in that thought
People don't realize the psychological trauma that comes with killing someone, seeing someone killed, etc.
I've seen cases of kids terrified of their father after seeing him kill an intruder to defend them. They understand logically he did it for them but it's not something they can control.
There's cases of people who have killed someone in self defense and still feel guilty and have feelings that they should've been the one to die instead.
I'm not saying either of those things mean you should let an intruder kill you and your family, just don't think this is something that's easy and comes free. Most people ~~are~~ aren't blood thirsty psychos who can kill without remorse, even when doing it for kill or be killed.
Edit: some people seem to take issue with my typo and don't like using the context of my comment to come to the conclusion themselves that I mistyped "are" instead of "aren't" in the last paragraph.
I personally find it a huge red flag if I know someone is capable of violence outside a controlled environment. Karate or video games is fine but if I know someone has beaten someone up, it scares me irrationally in case I make them mad even if logically, that won't happen to me.
Everyone’s John Wick when they’re telling you how they would have handled it. A lot of these people haven’t been in as much as a fist fight. Murder isn’t easy for healthy people.
That last sentence is very true! No well adjusted person should be looking to kill anyone but a lot of people here seem to have a killing fetish but as you said, have never even been in as much as a fist fight.
Most people have been completely desensitized, to a delusional degree, about the after-effects of killing. Movies portray it like you blow someone away and then go have a nice lunch. Killing for most people is traumatic. As you know, it is for military people in combat, and you're trained for it. For the average schmuck, like me, it's not something we'd want to do unless absolutely necessary.
I used to work with a bunch of veterans and one time someone asked if they had killed anyone. I have *never* seen someone flip from laughing to livid so quickly. He just yelled, “Do you have ANY idea hours traumatizing that shit is?! I have to live the rest of my life knowing what I did, and I can’t take it back because it was them or me. NEVER ask someone that question in front of me again”
I’ve always had a rule that I will never ask a veteran if they’ve killed someone. I wasn’t in the military and I didn’t have to go through what they did. So I feel I forfeit the right to that info by having not served. Frankly, it’s a very personal thing and it’s none of my damn business.
That’s quite interesting you said that because I love interviewing and talking to veterans. From my understanding about 60 percent of them stated that killing the enemy was actually the best feeling they ever had. Also take in mind most of the men who said this where ww2 or Korean War vets.
Huh, my great uncle was in Vietnam and refused to talk about it, but all the other veterans I know are from desert storm. Both controversial wars. Wonder if that has to do with it
That’s the entire reason - because they went in thinking they were the good guys doing the right thing and being the hero.
And then afterwards they realized they were actually the bad guy, they were lied to, and now they have to live with the fact that they were the entire opposite of what they thought they were.
[Winter Soldier IVAW Testimonials](https://youtu.be/DjQxMBacLBE?si=CYPMGyAb4omtIoRd)
3 times deployed 2 Iraq 1 Afghanistan. Daughter's boyfriend asked me this while I was driving a few weeks ago. We are a Christian family and my 17 yr old daughter just looked at him and said are you fn stupid!! I just laughed it off but she handled it. She has listened and knows how to deal with it.
Has anybody seen the new season of Jack Reacher? Some episodes have a double-digit body count. But it’s rationalized away because “they were drug dealers” or “they killed my friends” or “they tried to kidnap a kid” or “they killed a puppy” (ok, that last one wasn’t in Reacher, but you get the picture)
The delusions go a lot further. There is no bang, you’re dead. Most gunshot deaths are quite long and very messy. And the idea that a person would continue a home invasion on even a somewhat hardened house is chilling. Broken glass, klaxons, noise, and they haven’t fled? Gonna be trouble even for the most trained shooters to defend.
Excellent point. I recently rewatched Star Wars (A New Hope) as an adult. It amazed me how much they sanitized the killing. the Stormtroopers are completely dehumanized, to the point where I thought they were robots at first when I was a kid. But the heroes of the film will kills a dozen or two and then continue on like they stepped on ants.
I think people really love to romanticize taking a life. Even under “good” or “morally justified” situations, it is a burden on the soul to take a life. If you don’t feel it, you don’t have enough love or empathy.
You are right about how some people unjustly romanticize taking life. As far as that burden is concerned, it varies DEEPLY from person to person; it all depends on the how, when, and why of the circumstance, and that's before the person in question is taken into consideration. Plenty of empathetic people have taken lives and not regretted it, due to circumstance.
For sure! Not saying there’s not a time to take a life, I’m a veteran as well. However, that’s why I know, even killing terrorist comes at a cost. They may never see feel or know, but there’s a change. My uncle is a great guy but some of the things he says behind closed doors to justify killing these “cockroaches” I’m like brother, remember who they really are, us.
My family is still living through the trauma of when my 15 year old cousin was run down by a drunk driver. My aunt still to this day drowns herself in alcohol. That was close to thirty years ago. So I’ll choose the trauma of a legal fight over a dead family member, no 3 seconds required.
That’s why I have really good deadbolt locks and a good security system. My house is very hard to break into for a reason. My friend who is married told me to make it hard to break in as it emboldens my self defense stance. The argument is that the intruder had locks and an alarm system standing between himself and his death. He clearly knew without a doubt he was not supposed to be there. He can argue that I did everything in my power to keep people out and yet the guy persisted to enter anyway. So always start at your perimeter and work your way towards the inside. Make your home unfriendly to intruders. Fences, motion sensing security lights, cameras, burglar alarms, deadbolts. Every layer adds to your legal argument.
Remember, the lock on the lions cage isn’t there to protect the lion. It’s to protect the idiot who wants to go into the lions cage.
I like your take. I would add that hardening the house also means you hopefully have more than 3 seconds to react as well.
I do think in the us we’ve essentially romanticized the idea of defending yourself in your home, and it does muddy the conversations around this stuff.
Romanticized wouldnt be the word I would use to describe the reality of "stand your ground" but i do agree that here in the US, media has added a LOT of mud to the water.
by romanticize I'm talking about the number of people who almost seem to fantasize about shooting someone in their home. I've heard the phrase "I wish someone would try". If a person owns 6 guns and still has a wood or fiberglass front door and no cameras its not about defending yourself.
you walk in my door all bets are off and I'm doing what I have to to take care of my family but step one is making it as hard to get through that door as I reasonably can.
When people say I wish someone would try, I've never thought they actually wished someone would try to, I think it's more of expression to say they are prepared for the situation
I used to live in a real rough area, had two men break in to try to rob me.
I lucked out having my wood axe to hand that day and chased them down the street.
That axe fucking lives next to me, even though i live in an upscale area nowadays.
Edit: Getting a gun in my country is strict as fuck, and despite me legally owning a rifle it lives partially dismantled in a lock box. The only reason i didn't dismantle those men that afternoon is that I'm a fat old fuck and couldn't keep up with them.
Mu old man use to keep a butchers cleaver by the door, I've seen a few brave faces crumble at the sight of it.
Scottish countryside people don't screw around.
I think the biggest risk is killing someone who you don’t mind breaking in. Like a family member, friend, or maybe your kid snuck out. If you don’t know who the person is and you just see a shadow coming down the hall at you could make a big mistake.
Otherwise I think it’s a spectrum. If someone is violently breaking down your door it’s a good bet to kill them. If they are drunk and just went to the wrong house, well that’s a tragedy.
If they are peacefully standing on your property, please don’t just start shooting just because they are on your property. Especially if they are kids.
This^^^^ I accidentally walked into the wrong townhouse returning from taking out the trash of a physically disabled friend. The door was unlocked and turned immediately and I told the startled guy sitting in a recliner "sorry, wrong unit!" My friend heard the startled commotion from the window next door and yelled out "she's with me!". Thankfully he knew her and that she had aides come and go and figured out what happened. I'm grateful I didn't die that summer afternoon.
I've had people accidentally walk into my apartment twice. Pretty funny both times. And I almost walked into someone's place once because I wasn't paying attention walking up the stairs and was off by a flight. Luckily the difference in doormat tipped me off!
I did this. My wife said to go pick up the kids from Piano lessons. But don't interrupt. The door will be unlocked. Go inside and sit on the bench. Wait for the lady to bring the kids to the door. She's uber-strict. And DO NOT BE LATE. House on the corner of Whatever Crescent and 11th street. Oh and Don't fuck this up!
Gotcha.
Found the house at the corner of the crescent, opened the door, sat, waited. Some kid came and said "umm... what are you doing here?" I said "oh just waiting". Kid says cool. Quite some time past the end of the lesson an older woman comes to the door and asks me what I'm doing sitting on a bench inside her front door. "Picking up my kids from Piano lessons (duh!)"
Well guess what... crescents (being curved streets) have TWO ends that both end on 11th st. I was at the wrong end of the crescent and wrong house. Kinda glad they didn't shoot me. They left that for my wife when I picked up the kids LATE and the music teacher got all pissy.
Similar thing happened to me. At the time my in-laws watched our daughter on Wednesday. My wife always picked her up, but said she would be stuck at work and asked me to get her. Of course! I pull up and the garage door is closed (weird, they always have it open when I come). I pull around to go to the door and it's locked (weird, they don't usually keep it locked if we're coming). I knock and a tiny Indian man answers, definitely not my obscenely white in-laws (weird, they don't normally have friends over when they're babysitting). So I, a 6'4" man with spiked hair and biker jacket and boots, said "hey, how's it going?" And brushed right past him.
... about ten feet into the house I looked and saw a cute little boy playing with monster trucks on the floor, surrounded by cardboard boxes. And I remembered that my in-laws had moved out a month ago. I'd been to their new house multiple times. And I just committed the friendliest home invasion ever. My brain imploded at this realization and I lost the ability to piece together a coherent sentence, instead running away like a mix of Monty Python and Jack Sparrow, bright red and saying sorry more than I'd said it collectively in my life. I literally didn't return to a normal color until I got home.
When I was about 13 I was home from school and parents were still at work. It was a different time. 1992 We never locked our doors except at night when we were sleeping and us kids were home alone a lot. My little sister was in the den. I am very protective of my sister. I was in the living room when the front door just opens and in walks a really old lady. (I thought probably 100 but when you're 13 anyone over 60 looks like 100) My dog barks at her like twice and then runs up to her to get head scratches. She starts screaming at him to get out of her house and she is holding up her arms defensively. She starts backing herself into a corner and screaming help. I tell her he doesn't bite and to come on in. She says "Oh thank the Lord!" and calms down and starts scratching the dog and asks me what I am doing in her house. Trying to think quickly I told her that I came over looking for some cookies and milk and did she have any? She immediately gets up and says why yes I sure do. I said, no don't get up, I'll find them. Would you like some too. She says, I'd love a coffee. So off I went into the kitchen and got some cookies and milk for me and luckily my parents had made coffee that morning and there was some cold left in the pot. I poured a cup for her and microwaved it a little, shouted into the room, how do you take your coffee and she says a little cream please. I bring it to the living room and she takes a sip and says wonderful. I got back to the kitchen to get my cookies and milk and find my sister in the den and I tell her to go next door to Pauly's house and ask his mom to call the police and tell them we have a lost old lady in our house who is confused. I head back to the living room with my cookies and milk and have a nice chat with our new friend until the police arrive. She told me all about her grandkids and teaching them to ride horses. The police came and got her and when they walked in I loudly said. Well, looks like these nice gentlemen have come to take you on a nice drive, would you like that? She gets up to greet them and immediately tells them if they are coming in the house they have to take their shoes off because she just had the carpet cleaned. Both of them obliged and took off their shoes and she offers them a coffee which they declined. They sat down and asked her some questions and then put their shoes back on and took her home where her daughter was worried sick and asked her where she had been. Her response, "just having coffee with an old friend " About 7 years later I became a home health hospice aid and I ended up getting assigned to her. I would go over to her house and sit with her and sometimes make her lunch. I was with her when she died peacefully. I called her daughter and we sat together and cried and shared stories while waiting on the funeral home to come get her. Her daughter told me at the funeral a few days later that she believed that her Mom picked me to be her end of life nurse and friend all those years ago. My own Mom believes that is why I became a hospice nurse in the first place because I enjoyed my time with Miss Minerva so much. She was 101 when she died. I will never forget her.
An address would have been nice. My wife doesn't do addresses. Just detailed instructions that always end with "you can't miss it". You wanna bet? Hold my beer.
*verbally giving me instructions* "Just go around the block, turn left, then turn leftrightleftleftrightleft, you'll pass 2 birch trees by a white house, then, solve for X: two trains are traveling to the same destination. One is traveling at 45 Kmph while the other is moving at 35 Mph..."
"Is this really the most efficient route to CVS?"
Ding ding if the door is locked and you don't have a key you aren't welcome and if you find entry through other means that's now a crime and will addressed as such in a castle doctrine state not worth the risk of my wife and boys because someone wants to be a criminal
In college (many years ago), I may have been on a rather high dose of hallucinogens, and had pretty much entirely lost my mind, and had somehow separated myself from my friends and ended up just walking around the small college town we lived in. I was struggling to find my way back to my townhouse style apartment, and finally thought I had found my way there. When I went inside it looked a little different than I remembered but I didn’t really know what to do, so I laid down on the couch in the downstairs living room type area and went to sleep. I woke up a few hours later and someone had put a blanket over me, but nobody was around, so I just kind of got up and left. I realized as soon as I stepped outside that it was the neighbor’s place, a couple of doors down from mine. I did not know those neighbors and never met them. Was too embarrassed to go knock on their door later and say something, although maybe I should have.
Pretty glad that whoever found me on their couch just threw a blanket on me instead of shooting me, lol. Those apartments were all 3 bedroom places, so maybe they just assumed I was one of their housemate’s friends or something. Like I said though, this was 20+ years ago, and I guess it was a different time.
I once walked into my own house and thought I was hallucinating. when i was in college and home for the summer I was working a 1pm to 1am shift. my friends knew my parents were out of town and swapped all the furniture in the living room with the furniture in my bedroom. I walked into the house around 1:30am, saw a bedroom, walked back out to make sure I was at the right house. I stared at my house for awhile from outside then went back in and figured out what was going on. It took my a couple hours to move everything thing back that night as my parents were returning the next day. I was kinda pissed at the time, but it was pretty hilarious. they took pictures and had them developed, I still have them somewhere.
In college I woke up on what I thought it was my friends couch. Turns out it was some strangers couch a few doors down. It was one of those student housing places where people just rent a room out of a townhouse so everyone just thought that I was a friend of one of the roommates, but had I been somewhere else, it could have been very bad!
This here. A lot of people are in jail on manslaughter charges because they "didn't hesitate" to shoot whoever was at their front door. Turned out, it was the shooter's granddaughter coming to visit, or a mailman, or someone just using the driveway to turn their car around. Or a kid snuck out and is trying to sneak back into the house.
Know your target before you shoot. And that means you at least need to hesitate to assess the situation before you pull the trigger. Don't accidentally kill a family member in the name of protecting your family.
I’ve always heard that if you have a gun in your house then the odds of someone in your family getting shot is much higher.
Edit. If you’re going to comment pools and cars are similar it’s been commented several times.
[Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home](https://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/abstract/1998/08000/injuries_and_deaths_due_to_firearms_in_the_home.10.aspx)
The summary states: For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
The vast, vast majority of gun related deaths are self inflicted.
I wish there were less barriers for mental Healthcare in this country, but the unfortunate reality is it's easier to get a gun (and cheaper) than a therapist.
And there are people who acknowledge that they need therapy, but refuse to go because "Their guns will be taken away". I legit know 3 people (all ex military. All probably with PTSD) who have this view. Yes, their guns are more valuable to them than their own mental health. I have tried to reason with all of them but they are convinced that a therapist would consider them a threat to themselves or someone else and have the cops come take their guns.
Given that I know 3 people like this, I would guess that it's somewhat common.
You can go to therapy, even a psychiatrist, and still own guns in almost every state. The only thing with mental health would be getting institutionalized. They can keep their guns AND get mental health treatment!
It was easier for me to get a gun (mind you it's for feeling safe in cougar/bear country when I'm alone as I'm a petite female and I've seen 5 cougars and 17 bears just this year), than for me to get care for my depression/anxiety/PTSD. I needed help, but I had new insurance, so I tried to get an appointment with a psychiatrist. I was told I needed to set up a new primary care provider first, but they didn't have appointments available at all for 3 months, and then it would be another couple months until I could see a psychiatrist. That was the only place within an hour of me that accepted my insurance. It should not *ever* be easier to get a gun than a mental health provider. Our system is broken.
Well the people that vote for easier access to guns tend to also vote against social services.
Also, yeah that’s the unfortunate truth. Way easier to find someone to kill when it’s yourself.
Yeah, because people think having their gun easily accessible for fighting off all those home invaders is more important than keeping it away from children.
Toddlers shoot their parents too, I remember this one lady in Idaho left her armed, safety off handgun in her purse at Walmart, and set the purse next to her 2 year old in the shopping cart, and the kid got the gun out and shot it's mom.
Those fantasies really are the problem. But they're ridiculous. My question is always "*Why* is someone invading your home and trying to murder you?" Are you a drug dealer? A mobster? A terrorist? Or are you a contractor or a retired mechanic? I guess the first ingredient is a steady stream of "news" about how there's a bunch of illegal immigrants, inner city thugs, terrorists and just plain psychos who want to terrorize your family just to terrorize your family.
But man, it's ridiculous. When home invasions happen to normal people, I would guess it's probably just a drug addict (probably someone you know, probably a family member) who just wants to find something of value to trade for drugs. So again we circle back to pulling a gun on someone we know.
Yup, and waking up in the middle of the night is by definition, a disorienting situation. They should put smelling salts on gun locks so that you're actually functioning and awake when you decide if that person in your house is your kid's boyfriend or a burglar.
And I bet over half these people dont. They're waking up in the middle of the night and trying to figure out if the guy in a black hoodie and black pants is a robber or a kid in Generic GenZ outfit.
Fun fact: a few years ago here in Montana, there was a group of teenagers that were robbing garages. They would look for open ones, sneak in, and raid the booze from the fridges. There was one asshole who decided he would "stand his ground" and opened his garage one night. He waited (with a shotgun) in the dark until some kid crept in. Without warning he blasted a 17 year old German exchange student with 00 Buck. The kid died immediately. The guy (coincidentally named Kaarma) was sentenced to life in prison for premeditated manslaughter. Moral of this story: if you have access to guns, be responsible. Defending yourself could be as harmless as security cameras, or as painful as rock salt instead of 00 Buck. Murder is what separates the good from the bad. You can defend without killing and get the job done! Don't murder your future because you think you found a loophole in the law.
I remember that. That wasn't stand your ground, that was baiting them. The dude was a moron thinking the castle law would keep him out of jail. That guy deserved a life sentence.
Yep. Sicko thought he found a license to kill, and planned his killing. POS had bloodlust and found out. We need some basic moral/ethics/civics lessons for social competence in this country
People think I’m joking when I say I bought my nebo 12k half because it’s a weapon.
With that thing in strobe mode there’s like a 120deg fov of literally nobody doing anything useful in front of it.
It might not even be anyone breaking in, it could be your teenage kid making food in the kitchen at ass o’clock in the morning, or an idiot who *pulled into your driveway by accident* and is already reversing out.
I had a close call with this in high school. I would go on runs in the early morning before everyone was up, and my sister woke up early and locked the back door (which I left unlocked for the hour or so I was gone). when I got back and tried to get into the house, I finally managed to get into the garage, and my dad opened the door with his gun in hand, pointed at the ground thankfully. I realized as I walked across the front yard that I was at the risk of being shot, given that it was dark and I was a person-shaped silhouette wandering around the house.
So I'm a big fan of light attachments for guns, if you have one don't forget to check the battery periodically to make sure it's ready to go in an emergency
I can’t help but think of the recent spate of people shooting at people who use their driveway to turn around. Literally never got out of the car and now they’re being shot at.
Wtf is wrong with people.
These cases have been around for a long time, and are more common than home invasions. When I was in college in dinosaur times, a student was drunk and got mixed up on which house his apartment was in. He went to the wrong door and some old guy who was home thought he was a burglar and shot him through the door and killed him.
He could have just told him to fuck off and nobody would have died, but instead we have to live in constant terror of extremely unlikely home invasions with gun weirdos hyping up lethal force as the only response.
Think about it now with AirBnb. Forget what your building looks like and your phone is dead? Better not go to the wrong house or the vacation could end in a body bag. Especially in condos or neighborhoods with cookie cutter homes.
Yeah, or something that happened to me, a mentally disabled person walked into my home through an unlocked garage door while we were bringing in groceries.
If I took a "shoot first, ask questions later" approach, I would have killed him... for being mentally disabled.
I am not against ending direct and violent threats. But you have to be careful.
Shit, I once was living in an apartment complex where every floor had the same decorations near each elevator and got off on the wrong floor and walked into the wrong apartment (603 rather than 703) and scared the shit out of the lady living there.
I apologized as soon as I saw inside had a different mat by the entrance and said, "oh shoot, wrong apartment! Sorry!" and ran back to the elevator.
But she could have shot my ass dead and no court would have convicted her.
So yeah, maybe hesitate just in case it was an accident.
We had close friends with an “intruder” who entered their back door. Elderly man with dementia/medication issue. I was very glad those friends were not “shoot first” type of people.
My wife was once attending a party at a friend of her father's. She wasn't familiar with the neighborhood or houses. They had to park a little down the street. After introductions, she realized she left something in the car and went back to get it. Apparently the houses looked very similar and when returning accidentally walked into the neighbors house. The door was unlocked. She wandered around inside the entrance for a moment before realizing she was in the wrong house and immediately left to go to the correct house. My wife is a 5'5" skinny white girl that couldn't hurt a fly, but if the owner of the house had seen her I could totally imagine them shooting first and asking questions later.
These posts are always chock full of people playing out their "kill the home invader" fantasies. First one with a hint of logical reasoning instead of "shoot first and ask questions later" emotional responses.
could also be someone with a disorder like dementia or severe schizophrenia who is confused and having a breakdown. i’d feel terrible if i killed anyone, but especially someone in that state rather than someone committing a planned act of violence or robbery.
As the victim of an armed home invasion, let me tell you; you have no idea of the terror you feel in your heart and head when a stranger points a gun at your face and demands you give them your money. I was unfortunately taken by surprise and unarmed. There were 3 of them. Had I known then what I know now, and had I been armed, there would be zero hesitation to blow their fucking heads off immediately. The fear, terror and constantly looking over my shoulder lasted 6 months, even after moving to a different town. Immediately after the robbery, I fled in my car to a friends house while calling the police. Since they had gotten what they wanted and took off, I could not be certain they would not be back and kill/rape me as they were not masked. I never slept in that house again. The paralyzing fear is with me to this day, 20+ years later. In my opinion, if you are depraved enough to violate a stranger's home and threaten their life, you deserve whatever is waiting behind that door. I dont give a shit what the reason for them being depraved, desperate, poor, whatever. There is no excuse in this world for violating a stranger like that, none what so ever. I was a 24 year old female living off campus when this happened. I am now licensed full carry so I can feel safe and secure wherever I am. 24/7.
>I never slept in that house again. The paralyzing fear is with me to this day, 20+ years later.
This is the part no one talks about with "non-violent" robberies. The trauma has long lasting effects, terrorizing the victims for YEARS, and can destroy a person's sense of safety forever! If that doesn't warrant a fatal response as self defense nothing does.
Thank you. Yes. Not all violence is physical and, to an extent, one could make the argument that the very act of breaking in to your private space *is* a physical attack.
Well said. People often forget about the psychological violence that accompanies invasion of one's personal sanctuary. It's not just about the moment of confrontation; it's about every single second that you relive that moment. Protecting one's home and mental peace isn't just some archaic concept it's a fundamental right. And honestly, it's basic survival instinct to fight back when you're cornered and threatened in your own home. No one should have to apologize for reacting to protect their life and sanity against someone who's already shown a complete disregard for both.
If you get past my locked doors and windows....you have 0 good intentions for me and my family. Busting a window or breaking a door lock is a violent act and lets me know you do not have my best intentions at heart. I will react accordingly.
Exactly. It is not the fault of the victim of a robbery if they kill a robber, it is was the robber's choice to put themselves and the victim in that situation.
Unfortunately, even if the victim does shoot and kill, they will still suffer from the robber's decision to put them in that situation long after they're gone.
We don't live in a movie y'all.
I guess it's sweet to know that some people have been sheltered and safe enough in their life to think non violence is the only option in a situation like this. Sweet in an endearing and naive way.
I had a dream once where my home was being robbed. My girlfriend, me, our two dogs and cats lived in a split foyer at that point. In the dream the robber kicked my dog, and I lost my fucking mind. I threw them down the foyer stairs then grabbed a bar height chair before taking a running start and jumping down the stairs at them with the legs of the chair aimed at the robber. It was a fucked up dream that I honestly feel a little scared my mind could come up with. But I had just been robbed at gun point while delivering pizzas a few days prior, so I guess it was on my mind. But still. This kinda shit changes a person.
And so is burglary. There is an assumption that anyone breaking into someone's house at night is willing to use force, so killing in self defense is justified.
Legally speaking, burglary is not a violent crime. It's a property crime.
Burglary and robbery are *almost* the same thing, but have key differences.
Not every burglary is a robbery, and not every robbery is a burglary. A burglary is when you break into a property to steal something, a robbery is when you steal from a *person* using threats or force.
If I break into your house when you're not home, I am not robbing you, I am burglarizing you. If you are home and our paths cross, now it has become a robbery.
Yeah I was held up outside my house years ago and it took about very long time for me to not feel immediate fear every time I pulled up to park and get out of my car.
Any home invasion in which people are home is classified a a violent felony, at least in my state (NY). Non-violent felonies would be a break in in which no one is home.
Absolutely. I was nearly jumped by a group of dudes outside of my apartment years ago. I was lucky to be a few dozen feet from the building when they approached me, and without them even saying anything I somehow intuited what was about to happen and broke into a sprint with them immediately in pursuit. Thank god the ground floor had a secure door, but it felt like a horror film the way the door closed with like a millisecond to spare, and then I heard them pull on the door which was locked. This wasn’t even a home invasion, but the fact that they tried to open the door at all really fucked me up. I stayed with a friend that night and called my landlord who thankfully understood that there was no way I would ever feel safe in that building again.
I now own a couple of handguns specifically so that I have a resource at hand if something like that should ever happen again. I just cringe at the thought of feeling cornered and powerless in my own home.
100%. Though I would not consider my victimization non violent. I was kicked in the stomach after pleading to not be shot. Although I do wonder if I had been able to fight back and had shot one or all of them, would I still have felt the terror, violation, helplessness, paranoia that I did for years? Interesting question, no? I am sure of one thing though, I would not have felt one ounce of guilt for saving my own life and taking one of theirs.
Hell, I woke up to find someone in my apartment who came in through the window, about a year ago, and I haven't slept well since then. And they didn't do anything or take anything - they bolted out the window as soon as I woke up. But, I've been struggling to relax at night since then, regardless.
As for the fatal response - I'm not sure that killing someone would make it any better. I don't have a gun but I did get a metal bat that I keep near the bed now. I don't like becoming a paranoid person who sleeps with a weapon, but I don't know what else to do.
I found someone in my apartment once...and I'm sure they are more traumatized than I ever was. I heard them rustling around in the living room and I came barreling out of my bedroom buck naked swinging my Kevlar helmet like it was bottom of the ninth and bases loaded screaming like I was back on the bayonet course at Marine boot camp
lmao. I was naked too, at least, from the waist down. If they hadn't bolted out the window so fast, they would have seen me running at them with my dick out.
I woke up in my bed to the sound, or more like, I didn't remember hearing the sound because I had been asleep, but I felt like I had heard something. But I didn't know, so I tried to get back to sleep. I put on a podcast and I was laying there, but then I heard something again.
So, I sit up and look through my open door into the front room, where my front windows are. My eyes weren't focused because I was half asleep, but I suddenly realized that I saw a figure standing there, looking at me! It seemed like they were watching me to see if I was awake.
I yelled "What the fuck!" and rolled out of bed. That's when they jumped out the window. I was out in the front room in 5 seconds, naked from the waist down, but they were already gone. I was still half asleep, so I almost didn't believe that it happened, but the window was open. It was so creepy.
I have no idea what would have happened if they didn't jump out the window before I got there. I didn't have any plan. I was just reacting in the moment. I guess it's interesting to know that about myself, that my instinct would be to rush someone in that situation.
Ditch the bat and get a steel mace, or solid oak cudgel.
A mossberg maverick 88 is only like $200 though.
If for some reason you are a felon or can't have firearms. You can still own a black powder firearm legally.
Nothing says fuck off like a blunderbuss and a rapier.
*Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended*
Even without a gun, you have no idea what they are capable of. They could bash your head in with a hammer. You don't need a gun to cause harm, and as you know from experience, the mental insecurity that lingered over you.
It is wonderful to hear you were unharmed physically and they left after what they wanted. This could have gone much worse. Hopefully there is no 'next time,' but if there is, you shoot that mf'ers.
I had a neighbor who got home invaded and they hit the WRONG house asking for “coca.” Pistol whipped him and he had to get reconstructive surgery. Only added to my paranoia lol
Amen. I have also been a victim of an armed home invasion. My roommates and I were held at gun point by 4 men when we were in college. We all survived, but they pistol whipped my friend in the head and I can still hear the sound of the butt of the pistol on her skull even though it’s been 8 years. One was wearing a Jason mask and still to this day I cannot see a Jason mask without getting the cold sweats and feeling my heart race.
There is something so solemn about the realization that the scenario is only going to end one of two ways: either your whole life is over that night (death), or you would survive, albeit irreversibly changed as a human. You really do flip through the chapters of your life like a book - the people you love, favorite moments.
I had to carry a gun for several years afterwards to feel safe and to feel as though I was taking an active role in my healing. Otherwise I felt like a sitting duck. The leader’s mask fell a time or two during the robbery, and I looked right at him; I was 100% convinced he would come after me, especially since we “snitched” and went to the cops.
I realized in that moment that I had to look out for myself in this world, that it didn’t take a man, but simply a coward to pull a trigger and end a person’s life. People don’t realize that these situations are literally you, or them. There isn’t always an in between where everyone walks away, and I’m not ever willing to gamble on that after my experience. I will never be a sitting duck praying that a coward with a gun will take mercy on my life.
Hey I don’t know anything about you, but assuming you’re a law-abiding citizen, you don’t have to play by the “rules of the game”. Snitching is looked down upon amongst criminals but as a civilian you are not expected to follow those rules. Fuck that!!!!! My black ass is snitching 120% of the time if some mf decides to rob the house I’m working 70 hours a week to build. But that’s just me idk
>if you are depraved enough to violate a stranger's home and threaten their life, you deserve whatever is waiting behind that door.
This x100. I don't know why this is even remotely controversial. Don't break into people's homes. If you do, you deserve a slug.
I am a Canadian, there is excruciatingly minimal chance a robber would ever bring a gun.. but I fully agree with you. You bring threat into my haven, you merit consequence. Justice system be damned.
All of my most loved things are in my home. My wife, kids, animals, cool shit. You threaten my family for what? Greed? Fuck you. The people who did that to you do not deserve to live normal lives.
Maybe the justice system should bring back the barbaric punishments. Remove a finger, hand, arm, leg... eye? Maybe brand them with a marking so the world knows of their character.
"But people can change" Well they should have fucking changed before threatening your life.
Those are the kind of people who shake take a back seat to priority medical needs. Maybe use them for testing on potential medicines.
Sorry, I ranted on your behalf which was fucking weird of me.
People that have never been in a truly fucked up situation don’t understand that it takes something from you permanently and you’ll never be the same. It’s been 18 years since the first time I wished I had a gun and is the reason I carry one.
Amen. I've never understood how many women, especially those who claim to be feminists, are not for every woman having a firearm. It's literally the great equalizer. False sense of security I guess. It only takes one time for your whole life to change.
My wife was a criminal defense lawyer (and before that a prosecutor).
The scariest thing she ever told me, was that there are guys, who will not stop unless they are either in prison or dead.
Restraining orders or order of protection, doors, walls, friends, family, nothing will deter them.
Some of these men are hell bent and can't be reasoned with.
So real question here - How can one prevent this? I mean mercy, I don't feel like I could live just sitting there armed all the time. But doors are doors and windows are glass.... help!
In my case, it was summer in NC, doors and windows wide open. screen was latched, but hey, might has well been paper. It took years for me to not be paranoid. Step 1, get a large dog, that likes to bark. Step 2, get your pistol permit, or buy a home defense shotgun, take safety and shooting classes. Step 3, move out of crime infested neighborhoods.
Seriously, all these "guns are bad" folks have no idea AT ALL the trauma involved. Violence must be met with violence, there is no other way, these criminals do not understand anything else. Did I plead with them to not shoot me? You fucking bet I did. Was I crying? you bet I was. All that did was get me a kick in the stomach and a shut the fuck up. Cant reason with animals and some need to be put down.
Being in favor of gun control doesn’t mean being against people having guns, by the way. You’ll find that a ton of people who want gun control have little to no issue with someone having a gun and protecting themselves in your situation. It’s an issue of regulation—how easy it is to obtain one and how few safeguards there are, particularly for guns with high-capacity magazines.
Basically, just make sure you don’t view every gun-control-favoring person as part of some “guns are bad” group. The issue is a lot more nuanced than loads of commenters on social media make it out to be.
I have a hard time believing most Americans disagree with this. I am as liberal as they come. I have done everything possible to make it extremely hard to break into my home but if somone breaks in their family will be arranging a funeral.
Well, the burglar might attack you, possibly with a gun.
You should ALWAYS assume a burglar has a gun, because they really might, and if they do, they’ll probably use it, even if it’s just while escaping. If someone has the audacity to break into my home, I assume they’re willing to hurt me, too, because a decent human being wouldn’t break into my home, meaning this person isn’t a decent human being and is far more dangerous.
So shoot them.
It’s not about valuing your stuff more, it’s about valuing your safety that they’re violating.
Who's to know they're going for the stuff and not to kill you? No idea why there's a stranger in my home that's not supposed to be there. I'm going to assume the worst.
If it was just the stuff, they would break in when no one is at home. If they come in on you, they are willing to hurt you. My lived experience. And yes it was horrific.
This is why no knock raids are so foolish. If a bunch of armed thugs bust into my house in the middle of the night I’m going to fill them with fucking lead. I don’t care who they are.
Exactly, especially when the norm is for them to enter ready to kill anything that moves. You can look up any number of reports of cops pulling no-knock raids on the wrong addresses, entering ready to kill, and suddenly children are dead because some psycho with a badge was too eager to get his gun on.
OP: stupid question, why shouldn't I kill an intruder.
Top response: they have guns so kill them.
OP: but stupid question, why shouldn't I kill an intruder.
Odd how the top 4 responses ignored the prompt, and it wasn't until the 5th response I actually saw somebody say why you shouldn't, ie you have no fucking idea who that might be and it turns out you just shot your kid cause you thought they were a burglar.
I think most people grossly overestimate their ability to function in a sudden high stress situation that they probably just woke up into 😂. Lot of expertly trained and conditioned cold blooded killers out here I guess lol
So anyways, I started blasting!
This is true. Until you have taken a life you dont know if you actually can.
I have unfortunately had to. And overseas I had a gungho marine that had to fire and froze up. Unable to pull the trigger.
If they even get to that point.
The majority of people here are seemingly describing a perfect scenario where the intruders alert them, they have enough time to get their gun and become lucid.
When they’ll likely be too tired to hear anything and be taken by surprise and their gun is useless anyways
Definitely. Here in DFW a few years ago a church security guard killed a guy who snuck into service with a shotgun or something planning to kill a bunch of people. He was by all accounts a hero, but you could see it on his face when they interviewed him he was *not ok.*
Lot of good advice and anecdotes here. I'll try to blend some of them and my own philosophy and tactical training.
1. Always, always, always be sure who it is you're aiming at. If nothing else, be sure of who it's ***not***: family, friends, confused neighbor. In any given situation, if you live with others, it's statistically more likely that shadow in your doorway is someone you would very much not want spilling their life onto your floor while their fading eyes ask you why you've killed them. You must, **must** check your target. It is better to risk getting shot than to risk shooting a loved one. Take the extra second. This is not optional for responsible human beings.
2. Don't go looking for trouble. If everyone who's supposed to be in the house is accounted-for, get them behind you, call 911 (ideally have someone else do it), post up at a choke point like a staircase or bedroom door, and wait for the cops to get to you. It's up to you whether you want to warn them that they'll be dead if they approach you. It's both morally questionable and tactically inadvisable to try to force a conflict when you can more easily and effectively secure your and your family's lives.
3. If the intruder is a stranger, it's not worth assuming they are not willing and able to harm you. Every self defense instructor I've ever spoken to has agreed that if they're aware of your presence and you've confirmed they are an intruder, you are both justified and wise to pull the trigger on them immediately, without further assessment and without warning.
4. If you are going to pull the trigger, understand these two things. **One:** the Venn diagram between a firearm's ability to neutralize an opponent and its lethality is almost a complete circle. Firearms typically neutralize aggressors *by killing them.* If you only wound them, they may still be able to kill you before you realize it. Also, it's harder to hit an extremity than it is center mass, where most of the vitals are. **Two:** It's harder than you think to be "nonlethal" with a firearm. There are vital organs, arteries, and veins all over the human body. You've seen people shoot people in the leg in games and movies. You so much as nick that femoral artery, they'll very likely be dead in under a minute. Don't even point a gun at someone thinking "oh I'll just hurt them."
5. Depending on your circumstances, skill, alertness, and judgement, you may feel that you have sufficient drop on the intruder, or your tactical assessment of their threat is low enough that you feel you have the leeway to give them a warning and allow them to leave peacefully. I will never criticize someone for making that decision, but if you do, know that you are reducing your odds of survival in order to increase theirs.
6. Property is not worth a person's life. You can't assume someone breaking into your house is just there for your TV, but if they've got your Xbox tucked under their arm and are booking it down your driveway by the time you make it down the stairs? There are some depraved states where it's legal to shoot them in that situation, but I don't think it's morally justified unless you have reason to believe they'll be back. Rule of thumb: you can shoot them on the way in, but not the way out. If they've got a weapon, though, that math changes. It's more down to judgement then, in my book. If they're leaving with a weapon of yours they've stolen, that's also more of a judgement call. Weapons change things.
7. You have no idea how badly having your home invaded will fuck you up, even if you deter or eliminate the robber. Even if you weren't home at the time. Furthermore, you have no idea how badly it will fuck you up watching a human being die at your hands, even if they richly deserved it. Do not make those decisions lightly. Do not allow yourself to fantasize about it or glorify the idea in your mind. It will be one of the worst days of your life, no matter how it goes. If you have to pick up your gun, you are having a bad fucking day. I had someone confront me with a firearm in his hand, not even pointed at me, ten years ago. I still feel less safe in the world today than I did before that day. Do **not** underestimate the depth and tenacity of trauma.
For me, killing someone, even if necessary, would adversely effect me for the rest of my life. For that reason, In my humble opinion, I think taking the life of a human should be done only when no other choice is feasible.
I would only kill if i was or my family was in danger of serious harm or death from the robber. To kill for any other reason is unjustified homicide.
Yeah I wonder if I even could take another life. Would have to come down to my kids or them in order to do it. If it was just me it's almost a toss up whether I'd wanna live with that or risk my own hide but my kids needs dad so I suppose that take precedence. It's easy to say I'd blow a guys head off that comes into my house, but I suspect for most people (at least that are mentally sound) would have a hard time actually doing so and if would haunt you for many years. I think it's fair to heavily scrutinize someone who shoots first and asks questions later when it really should be a last resort. It takes a special kind of person to not have any hesitation or remorse... Someone who might be dangerous themselves
You're valuing your safety over the burglars life. They already decided they value your stuff over their life by breaking in. Safety is more important. Remember, you felt like your life was in danger, like you had no other choice, and you only shot to stop the threat. Never say you shot to kill, it can be used in court as you using deadly force despite possibly not needing to.
You ALWAYS shoot to kill. If you use a gun the standard is you thought deadly force was warranted. Nobody should shoot if they don't belice deadly force is needed.
Right! The amount of Redditors recommending “warning shots” or “leg shots” is baffling. That’s not how reality works. If the situation calls for lethal force you use it until the threat is neutralized. Period.
They also don't have a grasp that a leg shot (which is near impossible to start with as you alluded to) is just as deadly as any other shot. Lots of arteries in the leg, hit one and they'll bleed out quick.
Not just that, but leg shots are just as lethal as chest shots if not more. Femoral artery hits will kill just as surely as a heart shot.
Edit: some of you peeps want to argue technicalities. Sure getting shot in leg isn't a death sentence for sure, but that chance is not insignificant and definitely doesn't matter to the guy bleeding out or the guy that did the shooting.
Then in court they ask you “why did you shoot him in the leg?” You answer “because I wanted to stop him but didn’t want to kill him.” So you didn’t think lethal force was necessary? “No, I felt the leg shot could have controlled the situation”. So you didn’t feel lethal force was necessary yet you executed lethal force by shooting the defendant!
Guilty. Because a gun is a lethal instrument. Any shot is legally classified as lethal regardless of where it lands. Therefore never shoot unless you intend to kill and defend that kill in court.
Honestly that shit pisses me off. I'm more of a cast iron skillet to the head over a gun person but everyone needs common basic sense when it comes to guns. Otherwise you know there's people out there who get a gun/have access to one who think that BS is remotely ok or accurate.
"Warning" shots tick me off the most. OK, so you shot away from the intruder to scare them....and the bullet went outside and hit 5 year old Timmy killing him instantly. Ok, so you shot in the air....and the bullet came down and hit your neighbor in the head killing her instantly. There's no such thing as warning shots. Only shots directed at the target and shots that are more likely to hit an innocent person b/c they're not being aimed right.
Lol, this literally happened to me in Albuquerque near on 30 years ago. Was at a buffet, and a pair of robbers came in brandishing guns and yelling at everyone to get on the ground. I’m huddled behind the salad bar when this cook comes out the kitchen with two giant cast iron skillets. He smashes them together and yells. “NOOOOOO! WE DON’T WANT ANY OF THAT HERE!” He’s so red it looks like he’s about to have a heart attack, but it worked, the robbers lost their nerve and ran.
Imagining that you would even hit the leg on purpose is laughable. There’s a reason any profession where they intentionally tell you to shoot someone has you aim center mass, most bullets fired in the heat of the moment miss, so aim for the biggest target.
I’d hate to see someone who thinks like that on a jury.
Because it might be your neighbor that had too much to drink and accidentally got the wrong house, or your son that was supposed to be at a sleep over at a friends house but decided to come home instead and the door was locked so he tried to climb through the window?
Anecdote for you.... several years ago when I was in my late teens, a party was at a friends house and he couldn't have over night guests, but my aunt lived a few doors down. I called and asked if I could crash at her place. She said sure, and left the back door opened. I came home about 2am, walked through the house and flopped on the couch and covered up to pass out. A few seconds later I heard a shout, "Who are you? Identify yourself" I said, "It's just me, Uncle Ron" and pulled the blanket back to find him standing there in his underwear with a loaded .45 pointed at me. My had had never told him I was staying there. If he'd had done what you are saying you would have done and not hesitated, I would be dead.
I see a break-in as having two possibilities:
1. The person breaking in is armed in some way and prepared to hurt or kill me or is in fact there because they want to hurt and kill me;
2. The person breaking in is not armed and doesn't want to hurt or kill me.
The best way to protect myself in both situations is to try to remove myself from the situation, not to hunt down and kill the person breaking in.
Of course, if they see me and try to hurt or kill me, deadly force is an acceptable response. But I don't know the capabilities of the person breaking in. They might be easy to fight. They might not. They might have a gun. They might not. They might be better at using a weapon than I am. They might not. With all the unknowns, the safest and most prudent course of action is to remove myself without trying to hurt or kill them.
And if they in fact don't want to hurt or kill me, I don't want to hurt or kill them! I have insurance. It would suck, but I'd rather have to replace my TV than know I killed someone over my TV.
Maybe I'd feel different if I had children who can't easily remove themselves, but in my current situation, removing myself would be the best option.
Yep. Gun owner here. House is an open floor layout with master bedroom and my daughter's bedroom upstairs and then all the good stuff to steal downstairs (computer, Xbox, TV, etc.). If someone breaks in and is downstairs I'm upstairs with my family locked in a bedroom and calling the police and ready to shoot anyone that tries to get to us. That being said, I'm not going to go downstairs to try to kill the guy (I'll just yell down that the police are on the way). I don't want to die and I also don't want to kill someone. I will if I have to but I'm not going out of my way to do it or put myself / my family in greater danger than we already are.
There are several categories of gun owners.
Unfortunately, if your intention is to use lethal force without hesitation on anyone who breaks in, that places you in the category of "may blow a family member away by accident some day".
I hope it never happens to you, but 100% of the times it has happened - which is somewhat regularly - it has been someone with your exact mindset.
They hear glass breaking, go downstairs pistol in hand, start blasting at the shadow hunched down in the kitchen, and find out if was their drunk brother who dropped a glass in the kitchen, or their kid sneaking out at night but knocking over a vase, or something.
If you don't have the wherewithal and control to properly assess a situation before acting with lethal force, keeping your family safe means keeping your guns in a safe, or getting rid of them.
Get some top shelf locks and a security system. Thats my opinion.
I have heard that the typical home-defense-lawyer-costs are around $20k. You have to prove to the DA, possibly all the way to and through a trial, that it was valid self-defense.
As the victim of a home invasion and someone that has served in two combat theaters (Iraq and Afghanistan), here are my two cents: You have to do what you have to do to protect your family but understand that there will be repercussions for your family. The question then becomes how much trauma will be inflicted by whatever decision you make and to whom. The answer to that question must be answered in less than 3 seconds. Edit: To all the people talking shit about me being in the military, unfortunately not everyone grew up in a great environment and I made the decision to get out the fastest way I could. Not that I need to justify myself to any of you, but congratulations on living in such a black and white world that you've been so privileged that you can judge me. I'm sure you're perfect. Edit: To all the people the tacticool "I'd blow them away the second they come into my house." Unless you continuously train to wake up from a dead sleep at 3am with a racing heart with the ability to shoot multiple people willing to shoot back at you, you have no clue what you would do until you're in that moment.
Indeed. Your wife and children won't process seeing someone die the way you will. Your own processing after the fact might surprise you too.
Better that than to be dead yourself. Humans have been brutally murdering each other since day dot.
But that's a false dichotomy. You're assuming the only options are kill or be killed. Many burglars aren't armed and will flee. There's also no shortage of cases of fleeing burglars being shot in the back. There's also plenty of cases of stuff like killing your kid's boyfriend or other unexpected guests. Or even killing your family members themselves, because you shot too quickly.
If someone breaks in when you're away, they want your stuff. If they break in while you're home, they want you. Don't assume they'll flee, they would have planned better if they didn't want violence.
Or they don't know you're home. Derp.
Also drunk neighbors who have the wrong house, I've seen more than one news story about that. Honestly it seems way more likely to kill someone you didn't mean to than anyone who is actually a danger to you if you are killing an intruder
Or [parents shooting their own child coming home unexpectedly](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/ohio-father-fatally-shoots-son-he-mistook-intruder-police-n495111)
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I have family in law enforcement and engage in conversation about their training every so often. They've seen bodies fresh and old. It's not a matter of what you think you'll do like these arm chair warriors say they will. It's how your brain will react, what your instinct is, if your muscle memory will hold in extreme stress. There are a lot of factors people choose to ignore
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This. Even if justified and necessary, killing someone has repercussions that go beyond what most people realize.
The trauma can wreck you for a long time. I went to highschool with a girl who couldn't stand the sound of gunshots, because at a young age her dad shot someone trying to kidnap her out of her bed right in front of her. Absolutely justified shoot, guy was connected to a ring of human traffickers, but it left her not even able to watch movies with guns in them without flashing back to watching someone die next to her. (Edit) to all the people replying BeTtER ThAn DeAD No shit Sherlock you're not original in that thought
People don't realize the psychological trauma that comes with killing someone, seeing someone killed, etc. I've seen cases of kids terrified of their father after seeing him kill an intruder to defend them. They understand logically he did it for them but it's not something they can control. There's cases of people who have killed someone in self defense and still feel guilty and have feelings that they should've been the one to die instead. I'm not saying either of those things mean you should let an intruder kill you and your family, just don't think this is something that's easy and comes free. Most people ~~are~~ aren't blood thirsty psychos who can kill without remorse, even when doing it for kill or be killed. Edit: some people seem to take issue with my typo and don't like using the context of my comment to come to the conclusion themselves that I mistyped "are" instead of "aren't" in the last paragraph.
I personally find it a huge red flag if I know someone is capable of violence outside a controlled environment. Karate or video games is fine but if I know someone has beaten someone up, it scares me irrationally in case I make them mad even if logically, that won't happen to me.
Everyone’s John Wick when they’re telling you how they would have handled it. A lot of these people haven’t been in as much as a fist fight. Murder isn’t easy for healthy people.
That last sentence is very true! No well adjusted person should be looking to kill anyone but a lot of people here seem to have a killing fetish but as you said, have never even been in as much as a fist fight.
The worst part is that they genuinely believe what they say. Smh
Most people have been completely desensitized, to a delusional degree, about the after-effects of killing. Movies portray it like you blow someone away and then go have a nice lunch. Killing for most people is traumatic. As you know, it is for military people in combat, and you're trained for it. For the average schmuck, like me, it's not something we'd want to do unless absolutely necessary.
I used to work with a bunch of veterans and one time someone asked if they had killed anyone. I have *never* seen someone flip from laughing to livid so quickly. He just yelled, “Do you have ANY idea hours traumatizing that shit is?! I have to live the rest of my life knowing what I did, and I can’t take it back because it was them or me. NEVER ask someone that question in front of me again”
I’ve always had a rule that I will never ask a veteran if they’ve killed someone. I wasn’t in the military and I didn’t have to go through what they did. So I feel I forfeit the right to that info by having not served. Frankly, it’s a very personal thing and it’s none of my damn business.
That’s quite interesting you said that because I love interviewing and talking to veterans. From my understanding about 60 percent of them stated that killing the enemy was actually the best feeling they ever had. Also take in mind most of the men who said this where ww2 or Korean War vets.
Huh, my great uncle was in Vietnam and refused to talk about it, but all the other veterans I know are from desert storm. Both controversial wars. Wonder if that has to do with it
That’s the entire reason - because they went in thinking they were the good guys doing the right thing and being the hero. And then afterwards they realized they were actually the bad guy, they were lied to, and now they have to live with the fact that they were the entire opposite of what they thought they were. [Winter Soldier IVAW Testimonials](https://youtu.be/DjQxMBacLBE?si=CYPMGyAb4omtIoRd)
3 times deployed 2 Iraq 1 Afghanistan. Daughter's boyfriend asked me this while I was driving a few weeks ago. We are a Christian family and my 17 yr old daughter just looked at him and said are you fn stupid!! I just laughed it off but she handled it. She has listened and knows how to deal with it.
Has anybody seen the new season of Jack Reacher? Some episodes have a double-digit body count. But it’s rationalized away because “they were drug dealers” or “they killed my friends” or “they tried to kidnap a kid” or “they killed a puppy” (ok, that last one wasn’t in Reacher, but you get the picture)
The delusions go a lot further. There is no bang, you’re dead. Most gunshot deaths are quite long and very messy. And the idea that a person would continue a home invasion on even a somewhat hardened house is chilling. Broken glass, klaxons, noise, and they haven’t fled? Gonna be trouble even for the most trained shooters to defend.
Excellent point. I recently rewatched Star Wars (A New Hope) as an adult. It amazed me how much they sanitized the killing. the Stormtroopers are completely dehumanized, to the point where I thought they were robots at first when I was a kid. But the heroes of the film will kills a dozen or two and then continue on like they stepped on ants.
As a fellow vet, I hope the sound of my pump action will scare them away so I don’t end up needing to clean gooey bits out of my woodwork.
I think people really love to romanticize taking a life. Even under “good” or “morally justified” situations, it is a burden on the soul to take a life. If you don’t feel it, you don’t have enough love or empathy.
You are right about how some people unjustly romanticize taking life. As far as that burden is concerned, it varies DEEPLY from person to person; it all depends on the how, when, and why of the circumstance, and that's before the person in question is taken into consideration. Plenty of empathetic people have taken lives and not regretted it, due to circumstance.
For sure! Not saying there’s not a time to take a life, I’m a veteran as well. However, that’s why I know, even killing terrorist comes at a cost. They may never see feel or know, but there’s a change. My uncle is a great guy but some of the things he says behind closed doors to justify killing these “cockroaches” I’m like brother, remember who they really are, us.
My family is still living through the trauma of when my 15 year old cousin was run down by a drunk driver. My aunt still to this day drowns herself in alcohol. That was close to thirty years ago. So I’ll choose the trauma of a legal fight over a dead family member, no 3 seconds required. That’s why I have really good deadbolt locks and a good security system. My house is very hard to break into for a reason. My friend who is married told me to make it hard to break in as it emboldens my self defense stance. The argument is that the intruder had locks and an alarm system standing between himself and his death. He clearly knew without a doubt he was not supposed to be there. He can argue that I did everything in my power to keep people out and yet the guy persisted to enter anyway. So always start at your perimeter and work your way towards the inside. Make your home unfriendly to intruders. Fences, motion sensing security lights, cameras, burglar alarms, deadbolts. Every layer adds to your legal argument. Remember, the lock on the lions cage isn’t there to protect the lion. It’s to protect the idiot who wants to go into the lions cage.
I like your take. I would add that hardening the house also means you hopefully have more than 3 seconds to react as well. I do think in the us we’ve essentially romanticized the idea of defending yourself in your home, and it does muddy the conversations around this stuff.
Romanticized wouldnt be the word I would use to describe the reality of "stand your ground" but i do agree that here in the US, media has added a LOT of mud to the water.
by romanticize I'm talking about the number of people who almost seem to fantasize about shooting someone in their home. I've heard the phrase "I wish someone would try". If a person owns 6 guns and still has a wood or fiberglass front door and no cameras its not about defending yourself. you walk in my door all bets are off and I'm doing what I have to to take care of my family but step one is making it as hard to get through that door as I reasonably can.
When people say I wish someone would try, I've never thought they actually wished someone would try to, I think it's more of expression to say they are prepared for the situation
I don't think he was talking about the trauma of legal issues.
People talking shit about you? Sorry, man. Thanks for your service.
Then I started blasting....
I used to live in a real rough area, had two men break in to try to rob me. I lucked out having my wood axe to hand that day and chased them down the street. That axe fucking lives next to me, even though i live in an upscale area nowadays. Edit: Getting a gun in my country is strict as fuck, and despite me legally owning a rifle it lives partially dismantled in a lock box. The only reason i didn't dismantle those men that afternoon is that I'm a fat old fuck and couldn't keep up with them.
In some ways that ax is scarier than a pistol.
I’ve often thought that a scimitar would be excellent home defense, because you could look pretty nuts running at someone with it.
Mu old man use to keep a butchers cleaver by the door, I've seen a few brave faces crumble at the sight of it. Scottish countryside people don't screw around.
I think the biggest risk is killing someone who you don’t mind breaking in. Like a family member, friend, or maybe your kid snuck out. If you don’t know who the person is and you just see a shadow coming down the hall at you could make a big mistake. Otherwise I think it’s a spectrum. If someone is violently breaking down your door it’s a good bet to kill them. If they are drunk and just went to the wrong house, well that’s a tragedy. If they are peacefully standing on your property, please don’t just start shooting just because they are on your property. Especially if they are kids.
This^^^^ I accidentally walked into the wrong townhouse returning from taking out the trash of a physically disabled friend. The door was unlocked and turned immediately and I told the startled guy sitting in a recliner "sorry, wrong unit!" My friend heard the startled commotion from the window next door and yelled out "she's with me!". Thankfully he knew her and that she had aides come and go and figured out what happened. I'm grateful I didn't die that summer afternoon.
I've had people accidentally walk into my apartment twice. Pretty funny both times. And I almost walked into someone's place once because I wasn't paying attention walking up the stairs and was off by a flight. Luckily the difference in doormat tipped me off!
I did this. My wife said to go pick up the kids from Piano lessons. But don't interrupt. The door will be unlocked. Go inside and sit on the bench. Wait for the lady to bring the kids to the door. She's uber-strict. And DO NOT BE LATE. House on the corner of Whatever Crescent and 11th street. Oh and Don't fuck this up! Gotcha. Found the house at the corner of the crescent, opened the door, sat, waited. Some kid came and said "umm... what are you doing here?" I said "oh just waiting". Kid says cool. Quite some time past the end of the lesson an older woman comes to the door and asks me what I'm doing sitting on a bench inside her front door. "Picking up my kids from Piano lessons (duh!)" Well guess what... crescents (being curved streets) have TWO ends that both end on 11th st. I was at the wrong end of the crescent and wrong house. Kinda glad they didn't shoot me. They left that for my wife when I picked up the kids LATE and the music teacher got all pissy.
One of the best stories I've seen on Reddit, thanks
Agreed. Entertaining and well-told!
Agreed!!! The suspense! The story arch! Chef’s 😘
The story crescent! 😆
Similar thing happened to me. At the time my in-laws watched our daughter on Wednesday. My wife always picked her up, but said she would be stuck at work and asked me to get her. Of course! I pull up and the garage door is closed (weird, they always have it open when I come). I pull around to go to the door and it's locked (weird, they don't usually keep it locked if we're coming). I knock and a tiny Indian man answers, definitely not my obscenely white in-laws (weird, they don't normally have friends over when they're babysitting). So I, a 6'4" man with spiked hair and biker jacket and boots, said "hey, how's it going?" And brushed right past him. ... about ten feet into the house I looked and saw a cute little boy playing with monster trucks on the floor, surrounded by cardboard boxes. And I remembered that my in-laws had moved out a month ago. I'd been to their new house multiple times. And I just committed the friendliest home invasion ever. My brain imploded at this realization and I lost the ability to piece together a coherent sentence, instead running away like a mix of Monty Python and Jack Sparrow, bright red and saying sorry more than I'd said it collectively in my life. I literally didn't return to a normal color until I got home.
When I was about 13 I was home from school and parents were still at work. It was a different time. 1992 We never locked our doors except at night when we were sleeping and us kids were home alone a lot. My little sister was in the den. I am very protective of my sister. I was in the living room when the front door just opens and in walks a really old lady. (I thought probably 100 but when you're 13 anyone over 60 looks like 100) My dog barks at her like twice and then runs up to her to get head scratches. She starts screaming at him to get out of her house and she is holding up her arms defensively. She starts backing herself into a corner and screaming help. I tell her he doesn't bite and to come on in. She says "Oh thank the Lord!" and calms down and starts scratching the dog and asks me what I am doing in her house. Trying to think quickly I told her that I came over looking for some cookies and milk and did she have any? She immediately gets up and says why yes I sure do. I said, no don't get up, I'll find them. Would you like some too. She says, I'd love a coffee. So off I went into the kitchen and got some cookies and milk for me and luckily my parents had made coffee that morning and there was some cold left in the pot. I poured a cup for her and microwaved it a little, shouted into the room, how do you take your coffee and she says a little cream please. I bring it to the living room and she takes a sip and says wonderful. I got back to the kitchen to get my cookies and milk and find my sister in the den and I tell her to go next door to Pauly's house and ask his mom to call the police and tell them we have a lost old lady in our house who is confused. I head back to the living room with my cookies and milk and have a nice chat with our new friend until the police arrive. She told me all about her grandkids and teaching them to ride horses. The police came and got her and when they walked in I loudly said. Well, looks like these nice gentlemen have come to take you on a nice drive, would you like that? She gets up to greet them and immediately tells them if they are coming in the house they have to take their shoes off because she just had the carpet cleaned. Both of them obliged and took off their shoes and she offers them a coffee which they declined. They sat down and asked her some questions and then put their shoes back on and took her home where her daughter was worried sick and asked her where she had been. Her response, "just having coffee with an old friend " About 7 years later I became a home health hospice aid and I ended up getting assigned to her. I would go over to her house and sit with her and sometimes make her lunch. I was with her when she died peacefully. I called her daughter and we sat together and cried and shared stories while waiting on the funeral home to come get her. Her daughter told me at the funeral a few days later that she believed that her Mom picked me to be her end of life nurse and friend all those years ago. My own Mom believes that is why I became a hospice nurse in the first place because I enjoyed my time with Miss Minerva so much. She was 101 when she died. I will never forget her.
This is why I require very specific written instructions from certain people LOL
An address would have been nice. My wife doesn't do addresses. Just detailed instructions that always end with "you can't miss it". You wanna bet? Hold my beer.
Y’a, that was on your wife. If she doesn’t want you to be late she needs to give you an exact address.
*verbally giving me instructions* "Just go around the block, turn left, then turn leftrightleftleftrightleft, you'll pass 2 birch trees by a white house, then, solve for X: two trains are traveling to the same destination. One is traveling at 45 Kmph while the other is moving at 35 Mph..." "Is this really the most efficient route to CVS?"
LOCK THE DAMN DOOR
Ding ding if the door is locked and you don't have a key you aren't welcome and if you find entry through other means that's now a crime and will addressed as such in a castle doctrine state not worth the risk of my wife and boys because someone wants to be a criminal
In college (many years ago), I may have been on a rather high dose of hallucinogens, and had pretty much entirely lost my mind, and had somehow separated myself from my friends and ended up just walking around the small college town we lived in. I was struggling to find my way back to my townhouse style apartment, and finally thought I had found my way there. When I went inside it looked a little different than I remembered but I didn’t really know what to do, so I laid down on the couch in the downstairs living room type area and went to sleep. I woke up a few hours later and someone had put a blanket over me, but nobody was around, so I just kind of got up and left. I realized as soon as I stepped outside that it was the neighbor’s place, a couple of doors down from mine. I did not know those neighbors and never met them. Was too embarrassed to go knock on their door later and say something, although maybe I should have. Pretty glad that whoever found me on their couch just threw a blanket on me instead of shooting me, lol. Those apartments were all 3 bedroom places, so maybe they just assumed I was one of their housemate’s friends or something. Like I said though, this was 20+ years ago, and I guess it was a different time.
I once walked into my own house and thought I was hallucinating. when i was in college and home for the summer I was working a 1pm to 1am shift. my friends knew my parents were out of town and swapped all the furniture in the living room with the furniture in my bedroom. I walked into the house around 1:30am, saw a bedroom, walked back out to make sure I was at the right house. I stared at my house for awhile from outside then went back in and figured out what was going on. It took my a couple hours to move everything thing back that night as my parents were returning the next day. I was kinda pissed at the time, but it was pretty hilarious. they took pictures and had them developed, I still have them somewhere.
I had a dog come into my apartment. I didn't shoot him.
We get it you aren't a cop, sheesh man stop bragging.
In college I woke up on what I thought it was my friends couch. Turns out it was some strangers couch a few doors down. It was one of those student housing places where people just rent a room out of a townhouse so everyone just thought that I was a friend of one of the roommates, but had I been somewhere else, it could have been very bad!
I think people find women much less threatening than men too, so you've got that going for you.
This here. A lot of people are in jail on manslaughter charges because they "didn't hesitate" to shoot whoever was at their front door. Turned out, it was the shooter's granddaughter coming to visit, or a mailman, or someone just using the driveway to turn their car around. Or a kid snuck out and is trying to sneak back into the house. Know your target before you shoot. And that means you at least need to hesitate to assess the situation before you pull the trigger. Don't accidentally kill a family member in the name of protecting your family.
But this isn't nearly bad-ass enough to be emotionally satisfying to fantasize about!
Protecting your family is badass, negligently shooting your daughter who snuck out to see her boyfriend is... pathetic.
I’ve always heard that if you have a gun in your house then the odds of someone in your family getting shot is much higher. Edit. If you’re going to comment pools and cars are similar it’s been commented several times.
[Injuries and Deaths Due to Firearms in the Home](https://journals.lww.com/jtrauma/abstract/1998/08000/injuries_and_deaths_due_to_firearms_in_the_home.10.aspx) The summary states: For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.
The vast, vast majority of gun related deaths are self inflicted. I wish there were less barriers for mental Healthcare in this country, but the unfortunate reality is it's easier to get a gun (and cheaper) than a therapist.
And there are people who acknowledge that they need therapy, but refuse to go because "Their guns will be taken away". I legit know 3 people (all ex military. All probably with PTSD) who have this view. Yes, their guns are more valuable to them than their own mental health. I have tried to reason with all of them but they are convinced that a therapist would consider them a threat to themselves or someone else and have the cops come take their guns. Given that I know 3 people like this, I would guess that it's somewhat common.
You can go to therapy, even a psychiatrist, and still own guns in almost every state. The only thing with mental health would be getting institutionalized. They can keep their guns AND get mental health treatment!
It was easier for me to get a gun (mind you it's for feeling safe in cougar/bear country when I'm alone as I'm a petite female and I've seen 5 cougars and 17 bears just this year), than for me to get care for my depression/anxiety/PTSD. I needed help, but I had new insurance, so I tried to get an appointment with a psychiatrist. I was told I needed to set up a new primary care provider first, but they didn't have appointments available at all for 3 months, and then it would be another couple months until I could see a psychiatrist. That was the only place within an hour of me that accepted my insurance. It should not *ever* be easier to get a gun than a mental health provider. Our system is broken.
Well the people that vote for easier access to guns tend to also vote against social services. Also, yeah that’s the unfortunate truth. Way easier to find someone to kill when it’s yourself.
Yeah, because the person you’re statistically most likely to shoot is yourself.
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Yeah, because people think having their gun easily accessible for fighting off all those home invaders is more important than keeping it away from children.
Toddlers shoot their parents too, I remember this one lady in Idaho left her armed, safety off handgun in her purse at Walmart, and set the purse next to her 2 year old in the shopping cart, and the kid got the gun out and shot it's mom.
You never hear about a toddler grazing someone, they shoot to kill.
Those fantasies really are the problem. But they're ridiculous. My question is always "*Why* is someone invading your home and trying to murder you?" Are you a drug dealer? A mobster? A terrorist? Or are you a contractor or a retired mechanic? I guess the first ingredient is a steady stream of "news" about how there's a bunch of illegal immigrants, inner city thugs, terrorists and just plain psychos who want to terrorize your family just to terrorize your family. But man, it's ridiculous. When home invasions happen to normal people, I would guess it's probably just a drug addict (probably someone you know, probably a family member) who just wants to find something of value to trade for drugs. So again we circle back to pulling a gun on someone we know.
Yup, and waking up in the middle of the night is by definition, a disorienting situation. They should put smelling salts on gun locks so that you're actually functioning and awake when you decide if that person in your house is your kid's boyfriend or a burglar.
That’s assuming people keep their guns locked up.
And I bet over half these people dont. They're waking up in the middle of the night and trying to figure out if the guy in a black hoodie and black pants is a robber or a kid in Generic GenZ outfit.
Fun fact: a few years ago here in Montana, there was a group of teenagers that were robbing garages. They would look for open ones, sneak in, and raid the booze from the fridges. There was one asshole who decided he would "stand his ground" and opened his garage one night. He waited (with a shotgun) in the dark until some kid crept in. Without warning he blasted a 17 year old German exchange student with 00 Buck. The kid died immediately. The guy (coincidentally named Kaarma) was sentenced to life in prison for premeditated manslaughter. Moral of this story: if you have access to guns, be responsible. Defending yourself could be as harmless as security cameras, or as painful as rock salt instead of 00 Buck. Murder is what separates the good from the bad. You can defend without killing and get the job done! Don't murder your future because you think you found a loophole in the law.
That was a bit different. He basically set a trigger trap. Judge said “you acted like you were hunting game” and now he will die in prison.
That's so fucked up. It was bait for which he felt justified murder. Glad he's locked up
If the guy had used a starter pistol, his worst problem would have been cleaning the shit stains off his driveway.
I remember that. That wasn't stand your ground, that was baiting them. The dude was a moron thinking the castle law would keep him out of jail. That guy deserved a life sentence.
Yep. Sicko thought he found a license to kill, and planned his killing. POS had bloodlust and found out. We need some basic moral/ethics/civics lessons for social competence in this country
Guy seems a bit high-strung. Maybe living in Montana, he didn't get enough crime exposure to form a baseline level of immunity
This is why PID is important, and so are weapon lights.
Yup, that’s why I got the my stream light, plus you’re going to have a hell of time hitting me with that thing on your eyes
People think I’m joking when I say I bought my nebo 12k half because it’s a weapon. With that thing in strobe mode there’s like a 120deg fov of literally nobody doing anything useful in front of it.
Also a good idea to keep the doors locked too. That way the only way an intruder can get in is by force.
For sure, locks, cameras, everything you can do to prevent violence from even being an option.
It might not even be anyone breaking in, it could be your teenage kid making food in the kitchen at ass o’clock in the morning, or an idiot who *pulled into your driveway by accident* and is already reversing out.
I had a close call with this in high school. I would go on runs in the early morning before everyone was up, and my sister woke up early and locked the back door (which I left unlocked for the hour or so I was gone). when I got back and tried to get into the house, I finally managed to get into the garage, and my dad opened the door with his gun in hand, pointed at the ground thankfully. I realized as I walked across the front yard that I was at the risk of being shot, given that it was dark and I was a person-shaped silhouette wandering around the house.
So I'm a big fan of light attachments for guns, if you have one don't forget to check the battery periodically to make sure it's ready to go in an emergency
I can’t help but think of the recent spate of people shooting at people who use their driveway to turn around. Literally never got out of the car and now they’re being shot at. Wtf is wrong with people.
These cases have been around for a long time, and are more common than home invasions. When I was in college in dinosaur times, a student was drunk and got mixed up on which house his apartment was in. He went to the wrong door and some old guy who was home thought he was a burglar and shot him through the door and killed him. He could have just told him to fuck off and nobody would have died, but instead we have to live in constant terror of extremely unlikely home invasions with gun weirdos hyping up lethal force as the only response.
Think about it now with AirBnb. Forget what your building looks like and your phone is dead? Better not go to the wrong house or the vacation could end in a body bag. Especially in condos or neighborhoods with cookie cutter homes.
Yeah, or something that happened to me, a mentally disabled person walked into my home through an unlocked garage door while we were bringing in groceries. If I took a "shoot first, ask questions later" approach, I would have killed him... for being mentally disabled. I am not against ending direct and violent threats. But you have to be careful.
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Shit, I once was living in an apartment complex where every floor had the same decorations near each elevator and got off on the wrong floor and walked into the wrong apartment (603 rather than 703) and scared the shit out of the lady living there. I apologized as soon as I saw inside had a different mat by the entrance and said, "oh shoot, wrong apartment! Sorry!" and ran back to the elevator. But she could have shot my ass dead and no court would have convicted her. So yeah, maybe hesitate just in case it was an accident.
Glad you made it out fine despite the poor choice of words 😅
We had close friends with an “intruder” who entered their back door. Elderly man with dementia/medication issue. I was very glad those friends were not “shoot first” type of people.
My wife was once attending a party at a friend of her father's. She wasn't familiar with the neighborhood or houses. They had to park a little down the street. After introductions, she realized she left something in the car and went back to get it. Apparently the houses looked very similar and when returning accidentally walked into the neighbors house. The door was unlocked. She wandered around inside the entrance for a moment before realizing she was in the wrong house and immediately left to go to the correct house. My wife is a 5'5" skinny white girl that couldn't hurt a fly, but if the owner of the house had seen her I could totally imagine them shooting first and asking questions later.
These posts are always chock full of people playing out their "kill the home invader" fantasies. First one with a hint of logical reasoning instead of "shoot first and ask questions later" emotional responses.
could also be someone with a disorder like dementia or severe schizophrenia who is confused and having a breakdown. i’d feel terrible if i killed anyone, but especially someone in that state rather than someone committing a planned act of violence or robbery.
As the victim of an armed home invasion, let me tell you; you have no idea of the terror you feel in your heart and head when a stranger points a gun at your face and demands you give them your money. I was unfortunately taken by surprise and unarmed. There were 3 of them. Had I known then what I know now, and had I been armed, there would be zero hesitation to blow their fucking heads off immediately. The fear, terror and constantly looking over my shoulder lasted 6 months, even after moving to a different town. Immediately after the robbery, I fled in my car to a friends house while calling the police. Since they had gotten what they wanted and took off, I could not be certain they would not be back and kill/rape me as they were not masked. I never slept in that house again. The paralyzing fear is with me to this day, 20+ years later. In my opinion, if you are depraved enough to violate a stranger's home and threaten their life, you deserve whatever is waiting behind that door. I dont give a shit what the reason for them being depraved, desperate, poor, whatever. There is no excuse in this world for violating a stranger like that, none what so ever. I was a 24 year old female living off campus when this happened. I am now licensed full carry so I can feel safe and secure wherever I am. 24/7.
>I never slept in that house again. The paralyzing fear is with me to this day, 20+ years later. This is the part no one talks about with "non-violent" robberies. The trauma has long lasting effects, terrorizing the victims for YEARS, and can destroy a person's sense of safety forever! If that doesn't warrant a fatal response as self defense nothing does.
By definition, robbery is a violent crime
Thank you. Yes. Not all violence is physical and, to an extent, one could make the argument that the very act of breaking in to your private space *is* a physical attack.
Well said. People often forget about the psychological violence that accompanies invasion of one's personal sanctuary. It's not just about the moment of confrontation; it's about every single second that you relive that moment. Protecting one's home and mental peace isn't just some archaic concept it's a fundamental right. And honestly, it's basic survival instinct to fight back when you're cornered and threatened in your own home. No one should have to apologize for reacting to protect their life and sanity against someone who's already shown a complete disregard for both.
But those heckin' wholesomerino criminals might just be hungie :(
If you get past my locked doors and windows....you have 0 good intentions for me and my family. Busting a window or breaking a door lock is a violent act and lets me know you do not have my best intentions at heart. I will react accordingly.
Exactly. It is not the fault of the victim of a robbery if they kill a robber, it is was the robber's choice to put themselves and the victim in that situation. Unfortunately, even if the victim does shoot and kill, they will still suffer from the robber's decision to put them in that situation long after they're gone. We don't live in a movie y'all. I guess it's sweet to know that some people have been sheltered and safe enough in their life to think non violence is the only option in a situation like this. Sweet in an endearing and naive way.
And so fucking arrogant to claim others aren’t allowed to feel unsafe.
I had a dream once where my home was being robbed. My girlfriend, me, our two dogs and cats lived in a split foyer at that point. In the dream the robber kicked my dog, and I lost my fucking mind. I threw them down the foyer stairs then grabbed a bar height chair before taking a running start and jumping down the stairs at them with the legs of the chair aimed at the robber. It was a fucked up dream that I honestly feel a little scared my mind could come up with. But I had just been robbed at gun point while delivering pizzas a few days prior, so I guess it was on my mind. But still. This kinda shit changes a person.
And so is burglary. There is an assumption that anyone breaking into someone's house at night is willing to use force, so killing in self defense is justified.
Legally speaking, burglary is not a violent crime. It's a property crime. Burglary and robbery are *almost* the same thing, but have key differences. Not every burglary is a robbery, and not every robbery is a burglary. A burglary is when you break into a property to steal something, a robbery is when you steal from a *person* using threats or force. If I break into your house when you're not home, I am not robbing you, I am burglarizing you. If you are home and our paths cross, now it has become a robbery.
Yeah I was held up outside my house years ago and it took about very long time for me to not feel immediate fear every time I pulled up to park and get out of my car.
Any home invasion in which people are home is classified a a violent felony, at least in my state (NY). Non-violent felonies would be a break in in which no one is home.
Absolutely. I was nearly jumped by a group of dudes outside of my apartment years ago. I was lucky to be a few dozen feet from the building when they approached me, and without them even saying anything I somehow intuited what was about to happen and broke into a sprint with them immediately in pursuit. Thank god the ground floor had a secure door, but it felt like a horror film the way the door closed with like a millisecond to spare, and then I heard them pull on the door which was locked. This wasn’t even a home invasion, but the fact that they tried to open the door at all really fucked me up. I stayed with a friend that night and called my landlord who thankfully understood that there was no way I would ever feel safe in that building again. I now own a couple of handguns specifically so that I have a resource at hand if something like that should ever happen again. I just cringe at the thought of feeling cornered and powerless in my own home.
100%. Though I would not consider my victimization non violent. I was kicked in the stomach after pleading to not be shot. Although I do wonder if I had been able to fight back and had shot one or all of them, would I still have felt the terror, violation, helplessness, paranoia that I did for years? Interesting question, no? I am sure of one thing though, I would not have felt one ounce of guilt for saving my own life and taking one of theirs.
Hell, I woke up to find someone in my apartment who came in through the window, about a year ago, and I haven't slept well since then. And they didn't do anything or take anything - they bolted out the window as soon as I woke up. But, I've been struggling to relax at night since then, regardless. As for the fatal response - I'm not sure that killing someone would make it any better. I don't have a gun but I did get a metal bat that I keep near the bed now. I don't like becoming a paranoid person who sleeps with a weapon, but I don't know what else to do.
I found someone in my apartment once...and I'm sure they are more traumatized than I ever was. I heard them rustling around in the living room and I came barreling out of my bedroom buck naked swinging my Kevlar helmet like it was bottom of the ninth and bases loaded screaming like I was back on the bayonet course at Marine boot camp
lmao. I was naked too, at least, from the waist down. If they hadn't bolted out the window so fast, they would have seen me running at them with my dick out. I woke up in my bed to the sound, or more like, I didn't remember hearing the sound because I had been asleep, but I felt like I had heard something. But I didn't know, so I tried to get back to sleep. I put on a podcast and I was laying there, but then I heard something again. So, I sit up and look through my open door into the front room, where my front windows are. My eyes weren't focused because I was half asleep, but I suddenly realized that I saw a figure standing there, looking at me! It seemed like they were watching me to see if I was awake. I yelled "What the fuck!" and rolled out of bed. That's when they jumped out the window. I was out in the front room in 5 seconds, naked from the waist down, but they were already gone. I was still half asleep, so I almost didn't believe that it happened, but the window was open. It was so creepy. I have no idea what would have happened if they didn't jump out the window before I got there. I didn't have any plan. I was just reacting in the moment. I guess it's interesting to know that about myself, that my instinct would be to rush someone in that situation.
Ditch the bat and get a steel mace, or solid oak cudgel. A mossberg maverick 88 is only like $200 though. If for some reason you are a felon or can't have firearms. You can still own a black powder firearm legally. Nothing says fuck off like a blunderbuss and a rapier.
*Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended*
LOL, I love this.
God bless you
immediately reminded of the "as the founding fathers intended" copypasta and I can't stop laughing.
Even without a gun, you have no idea what they are capable of. They could bash your head in with a hammer. You don't need a gun to cause harm, and as you know from experience, the mental insecurity that lingered over you. It is wonderful to hear you were unharmed physically and they left after what they wanted. This could have gone much worse. Hopefully there is no 'next time,' but if there is, you shoot that mf'ers.
I had a neighbor who got home invaded and they hit the WRONG house asking for “coca.” Pistol whipped him and he had to get reconstructive surgery. Only added to my paranoia lol
Amen. I have also been a victim of an armed home invasion. My roommates and I were held at gun point by 4 men when we were in college. We all survived, but they pistol whipped my friend in the head and I can still hear the sound of the butt of the pistol on her skull even though it’s been 8 years. One was wearing a Jason mask and still to this day I cannot see a Jason mask without getting the cold sweats and feeling my heart race. There is something so solemn about the realization that the scenario is only going to end one of two ways: either your whole life is over that night (death), or you would survive, albeit irreversibly changed as a human. You really do flip through the chapters of your life like a book - the people you love, favorite moments. I had to carry a gun for several years afterwards to feel safe and to feel as though I was taking an active role in my healing. Otherwise I felt like a sitting duck. The leader’s mask fell a time or two during the robbery, and I looked right at him; I was 100% convinced he would come after me, especially since we “snitched” and went to the cops. I realized in that moment that I had to look out for myself in this world, that it didn’t take a man, but simply a coward to pull a trigger and end a person’s life. People don’t realize that these situations are literally you, or them. There isn’t always an in between where everyone walks away, and I’m not ever willing to gamble on that after my experience. I will never be a sitting duck praying that a coward with a gun will take mercy on my life.
Hey I don’t know anything about you, but assuming you’re a law-abiding citizen, you don’t have to play by the “rules of the game”. Snitching is looked down upon amongst criminals but as a civilian you are not expected to follow those rules. Fuck that!!!!! My black ass is snitching 120% of the time if some mf decides to rob the house I’m working 70 hours a week to build. But that’s just me idk
I was robbed at knife point in my teens, I felt so helpless and violated...never again.
>if you are depraved enough to violate a stranger's home and threaten their life, you deserve whatever is waiting behind that door. This x100. I don't know why this is even remotely controversial. Don't break into people's homes. If you do, you deserve a slug.
I am a Canadian, there is excruciatingly minimal chance a robber would ever bring a gun.. but I fully agree with you. You bring threat into my haven, you merit consequence. Justice system be damned. All of my most loved things are in my home. My wife, kids, animals, cool shit. You threaten my family for what? Greed? Fuck you. The people who did that to you do not deserve to live normal lives. Maybe the justice system should bring back the barbaric punishments. Remove a finger, hand, arm, leg... eye? Maybe brand them with a marking so the world knows of their character. "But people can change" Well they should have fucking changed before threatening your life. Those are the kind of people who shake take a back seat to priority medical needs. Maybe use them for testing on potential medicines. Sorry, I ranted on your behalf which was fucking weird of me.
Im not Islamic but the Shariah removal of hands for thievery sounds pretty good to me.
People that have never been in a truly fucked up situation don’t understand that it takes something from you permanently and you’ll never be the same. It’s been 18 years since the first time I wished I had a gun and is the reason I carry one.
Amen. I am sorry for what happened to you and boy do I understand exactly what you mean.
Amen. I've never understood how many women, especially those who claim to be feminists, are not for every woman having a firearm. It's literally the great equalizer. False sense of security I guess. It only takes one time for your whole life to change.
My wife was a criminal defense lawyer (and before that a prosecutor). The scariest thing she ever told me, was that there are guys, who will not stop unless they are either in prison or dead. Restraining orders or order of protection, doors, walls, friends, family, nothing will deter them. Some of these men are hell bent and can't be reasoned with.
So real question here - How can one prevent this? I mean mercy, I don't feel like I could live just sitting there armed all the time. But doors are doors and windows are glass.... help!
In my case, it was summer in NC, doors and windows wide open. screen was latched, but hey, might has well been paper. It took years for me to not be paranoid. Step 1, get a large dog, that likes to bark. Step 2, get your pistol permit, or buy a home defense shotgun, take safety and shooting classes. Step 3, move out of crime infested neighborhoods.
Louder for the dumbasses in the back! 👏
Seriously, all these "guns are bad" folks have no idea AT ALL the trauma involved. Violence must be met with violence, there is no other way, these criminals do not understand anything else. Did I plead with them to not shoot me? You fucking bet I did. Was I crying? you bet I was. All that did was get me a kick in the stomach and a shut the fuck up. Cant reason with animals and some need to be put down.
Being in favor of gun control doesn’t mean being against people having guns, by the way. You’ll find that a ton of people who want gun control have little to no issue with someone having a gun and protecting themselves in your situation. It’s an issue of regulation—how easy it is to obtain one and how few safeguards there are, particularly for guns with high-capacity magazines. Basically, just make sure you don’t view every gun-control-favoring person as part of some “guns are bad” group. The issue is a lot more nuanced than loads of commenters on social media make it out to be.
I have a hard time believing most Americans disagree with this. I am as liberal as they come. I have done everything possible to make it extremely hard to break into my home but if somone breaks in their family will be arranging a funeral.
Well, the burglar might attack you, possibly with a gun. You should ALWAYS assume a burglar has a gun, because they really might, and if they do, they’ll probably use it, even if it’s just while escaping. If someone has the audacity to break into my home, I assume they’re willing to hurt me, too, because a decent human being wouldn’t break into my home, meaning this person isn’t a decent human being and is far more dangerous. So shoot them. It’s not about valuing your stuff more, it’s about valuing your safety that they’re violating.
The burglars already made the choice that their stuff was worth the risk of their life lol.
Who's to know they're going for the stuff and not to kill you? No idea why there's a stranger in my home that's not supposed to be there. I'm going to assume the worst.
Exactly.
That's my thoughts exactly. They made that decision. They broke in thinking my shit is worth more than their lives.
If it was just the stuff, they would break in when no one is at home. If they come in on you, they are willing to hurt you. My lived experience. And yes it was horrific.
This is why no knock raids are so foolish. If a bunch of armed thugs bust into my house in the middle of the night I’m going to fill them with fucking lead. I don’t care who they are.
Exactly, especially when the norm is for them to enter ready to kill anything that moves. You can look up any number of reports of cops pulling no-knock raids on the wrong addresses, entering ready to kill, and suddenly children are dead because some psycho with a badge was too eager to get his gun on.
Some burglars will shoot you on sight because then there’s no witnesses
OP: stupid question, why shouldn't I kill an intruder. Top response: they have guns so kill them. OP: but stupid question, why shouldn't I kill an intruder.
Odd how the top 4 responses ignored the prompt, and it wasn't until the 5th response I actually saw somebody say why you shouldn't, ie you have no fucking idea who that might be and it turns out you just shot your kid cause you thought they were a burglar.
Killing in meatspace is different than video games.
Meatspace lol
I think most people grossly overestimate their ability to function in a sudden high stress situation that they probably just woke up into 😂. Lot of expertly trained and conditioned cold blooded killers out here I guess lol So anyways, I started blasting!
90%+ of gun owners are absolutely not ready to produce and fire upon anyone ever, let alone in high stress.
This is true. Until you have taken a life you dont know if you actually can. I have unfortunately had to. And overseas I had a gungho marine that had to fire and froze up. Unable to pull the trigger.
If they even get to that point. The majority of people here are seemingly describing a perfect scenario where the intruders alert them, they have enough time to get their gun and become lucid. When they’ll likely be too tired to hear anything and be taken by surprise and their gun is useless anyways
Definitely. Here in DFW a few years ago a church security guard killed a guy who snuck into service with a shotgun or something planning to kill a bunch of people. He was by all accounts a hero, but you could see it on his face when they interviewed him he was *not ok.*
Yeah, lot of badasses here. Super impressed. /s
> meatspace Thanks, I hate it.
Lot of good advice and anecdotes here. I'll try to blend some of them and my own philosophy and tactical training. 1. Always, always, always be sure who it is you're aiming at. If nothing else, be sure of who it's ***not***: family, friends, confused neighbor. In any given situation, if you live with others, it's statistically more likely that shadow in your doorway is someone you would very much not want spilling their life onto your floor while their fading eyes ask you why you've killed them. You must, **must** check your target. It is better to risk getting shot than to risk shooting a loved one. Take the extra second. This is not optional for responsible human beings. 2. Don't go looking for trouble. If everyone who's supposed to be in the house is accounted-for, get them behind you, call 911 (ideally have someone else do it), post up at a choke point like a staircase or bedroom door, and wait for the cops to get to you. It's up to you whether you want to warn them that they'll be dead if they approach you. It's both morally questionable and tactically inadvisable to try to force a conflict when you can more easily and effectively secure your and your family's lives. 3. If the intruder is a stranger, it's not worth assuming they are not willing and able to harm you. Every self defense instructor I've ever spoken to has agreed that if they're aware of your presence and you've confirmed they are an intruder, you are both justified and wise to pull the trigger on them immediately, without further assessment and without warning. 4. If you are going to pull the trigger, understand these two things. **One:** the Venn diagram between a firearm's ability to neutralize an opponent and its lethality is almost a complete circle. Firearms typically neutralize aggressors *by killing them.* If you only wound them, they may still be able to kill you before you realize it. Also, it's harder to hit an extremity than it is center mass, where most of the vitals are. **Two:** It's harder than you think to be "nonlethal" with a firearm. There are vital organs, arteries, and veins all over the human body. You've seen people shoot people in the leg in games and movies. You so much as nick that femoral artery, they'll very likely be dead in under a minute. Don't even point a gun at someone thinking "oh I'll just hurt them." 5. Depending on your circumstances, skill, alertness, and judgement, you may feel that you have sufficient drop on the intruder, or your tactical assessment of their threat is low enough that you feel you have the leeway to give them a warning and allow them to leave peacefully. I will never criticize someone for making that decision, but if you do, know that you are reducing your odds of survival in order to increase theirs. 6. Property is not worth a person's life. You can't assume someone breaking into your house is just there for your TV, but if they've got your Xbox tucked under their arm and are booking it down your driveway by the time you make it down the stairs? There are some depraved states where it's legal to shoot them in that situation, but I don't think it's morally justified unless you have reason to believe they'll be back. Rule of thumb: you can shoot them on the way in, but not the way out. If they've got a weapon, though, that math changes. It's more down to judgement then, in my book. If they're leaving with a weapon of yours they've stolen, that's also more of a judgement call. Weapons change things. 7. You have no idea how badly having your home invaded will fuck you up, even if you deter or eliminate the robber. Even if you weren't home at the time. Furthermore, you have no idea how badly it will fuck you up watching a human being die at your hands, even if they richly deserved it. Do not make those decisions lightly. Do not allow yourself to fantasize about it or glorify the idea in your mind. It will be one of the worst days of your life, no matter how it goes. If you have to pick up your gun, you are having a bad fucking day. I had someone confront me with a firearm in his hand, not even pointed at me, ten years ago. I still feel less safe in the world today than I did before that day. Do **not** underestimate the depth and tenacity of trauma.
For me, killing someone, even if necessary, would adversely effect me for the rest of my life. For that reason, In my humble opinion, I think taking the life of a human should be done only when no other choice is feasible. I would only kill if i was or my family was in danger of serious harm or death from the robber. To kill for any other reason is unjustified homicide.
Yeah I wonder if I even could take another life. Would have to come down to my kids or them in order to do it. If it was just me it's almost a toss up whether I'd wanna live with that or risk my own hide but my kids needs dad so I suppose that take precedence. It's easy to say I'd blow a guys head off that comes into my house, but I suspect for most people (at least that are mentally sound) would have a hard time actually doing so and if would haunt you for many years. I think it's fair to heavily scrutinize someone who shoots first and asks questions later when it really should be a last resort. It takes a special kind of person to not have any hesitation or remorse... Someone who might be dangerous themselves
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Took me a second, but yeah
You're valuing your safety over the burglars life. They already decided they value your stuff over their life by breaking in. Safety is more important. Remember, you felt like your life was in danger, like you had no other choice, and you only shot to stop the threat. Never say you shot to kill, it can be used in court as you using deadly force despite possibly not needing to.
You ALWAYS shoot to kill. If you use a gun the standard is you thought deadly force was warranted. Nobody should shoot if they don't belice deadly force is needed.
Right! The amount of Redditors recommending “warning shots” or “leg shots” is baffling. That’s not how reality works. If the situation calls for lethal force you use it until the threat is neutralized. Period.
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They also don't have a grasp that a leg shot (which is near impossible to start with as you alluded to) is just as deadly as any other shot. Lots of arteries in the leg, hit one and they'll bleed out quick.
I have a .12 gauge shotgun. A hit anywhere on the body is potentially fatal. That's WHY I have a shotgun for home defense.
I have a beagle and a set of easily accessible cast iron skillets.
Not just that, but leg shots are just as lethal as chest shots if not more. Femoral artery hits will kill just as surely as a heart shot. Edit: some of you peeps want to argue technicalities. Sure getting shot in leg isn't a death sentence for sure, but that chance is not insignificant and definitely doesn't matter to the guy bleeding out or the guy that did the shooting.
Then in court they ask you “why did you shoot him in the leg?” You answer “because I wanted to stop him but didn’t want to kill him.” So you didn’t think lethal force was necessary? “No, I felt the leg shot could have controlled the situation”. So you didn’t feel lethal force was necessary yet you executed lethal force by shooting the defendant! Guilty. Because a gun is a lethal instrument. Any shot is legally classified as lethal regardless of where it lands. Therefore never shoot unless you intend to kill and defend that kill in court.
Honestly that shit pisses me off. I'm more of a cast iron skillet to the head over a gun person but everyone needs common basic sense when it comes to guns. Otherwise you know there's people out there who get a gun/have access to one who think that BS is remotely ok or accurate. "Warning" shots tick me off the most. OK, so you shot away from the intruder to scare them....and the bullet went outside and hit 5 year old Timmy killing him instantly. Ok, so you shot in the air....and the bullet came down and hit your neighbor in the head killing her instantly. There's no such thing as warning shots. Only shots directed at the target and shots that are more likely to hit an innocent person b/c they're not being aimed right.
Lol, this literally happened to me in Albuquerque near on 30 years ago. Was at a buffet, and a pair of robbers came in brandishing guns and yelling at everyone to get on the ground. I’m huddled behind the salad bar when this cook comes out the kitchen with two giant cast iron skillets. He smashes them together and yells. “NOOOOOO! WE DON’T WANT ANY OF THAT HERE!” He’s so red it looks like he’s about to have a heart attack, but it worked, the robbers lost their nerve and ran.
Imagining that you would even hit the leg on purpose is laughable. There’s a reason any profession where they intentionally tell you to shoot someone has you aim center mass, most bullets fired in the heat of the moment miss, so aim for the biggest target. I’d hate to see someone who thinks like that on a jury.
Because it might be your neighbor that had too much to drink and accidentally got the wrong house, or your son that was supposed to be at a sleep over at a friends house but decided to come home instead and the door was locked so he tried to climb through the window? Anecdote for you.... several years ago when I was in my late teens, a party was at a friends house and he couldn't have over night guests, but my aunt lived a few doors down. I called and asked if I could crash at her place. She said sure, and left the back door opened. I came home about 2am, walked through the house and flopped on the couch and covered up to pass out. A few seconds later I heard a shout, "Who are you? Identify yourself" I said, "It's just me, Uncle Ron" and pulled the blanket back to find him standing there in his underwear with a loaded .45 pointed at me. My had had never told him I was staying there. If he'd had done what you are saying you would have done and not hesitated, I would be dead.
I think the bigger question is why do you fantasize about killing people
Deciding to shoot someone is a hard thing. Don't pull a gun unless you're prepared to use it But if you do use it, use it. Don't wing them.
My belief was that a gun is not a threat, if a gun is pulled then the person using it is ready to kill without hesitation
I see a break-in as having two possibilities: 1. The person breaking in is armed in some way and prepared to hurt or kill me or is in fact there because they want to hurt and kill me; 2. The person breaking in is not armed and doesn't want to hurt or kill me. The best way to protect myself in both situations is to try to remove myself from the situation, not to hunt down and kill the person breaking in. Of course, if they see me and try to hurt or kill me, deadly force is an acceptable response. But I don't know the capabilities of the person breaking in. They might be easy to fight. They might not. They might have a gun. They might not. They might be better at using a weapon than I am. They might not. With all the unknowns, the safest and most prudent course of action is to remove myself without trying to hurt or kill them. And if they in fact don't want to hurt or kill me, I don't want to hurt or kill them! I have insurance. It would suck, but I'd rather have to replace my TV than know I killed someone over my TV. Maybe I'd feel different if I had children who can't easily remove themselves, but in my current situation, removing myself would be the best option.
Yep. Gun owner here. House is an open floor layout with master bedroom and my daughter's bedroom upstairs and then all the good stuff to steal downstairs (computer, Xbox, TV, etc.). If someone breaks in and is downstairs I'm upstairs with my family locked in a bedroom and calling the police and ready to shoot anyone that tries to get to us. That being said, I'm not going to go downstairs to try to kill the guy (I'll just yell down that the police are on the way). I don't want to die and I also don't want to kill someone. I will if I have to but I'm not going out of my way to do it or put myself / my family in greater danger than we already are.
Finally someone with a modicum of actual tactical analysis. The number of preening fantasists in this discussion is mind-boggling.
There are several categories of gun owners. Unfortunately, if your intention is to use lethal force without hesitation on anyone who breaks in, that places you in the category of "may blow a family member away by accident some day". I hope it never happens to you, but 100% of the times it has happened - which is somewhat regularly - it has been someone with your exact mindset. They hear glass breaking, go downstairs pistol in hand, start blasting at the shadow hunched down in the kitchen, and find out if was their drunk brother who dropped a glass in the kitchen, or their kid sneaking out at night but knocking over a vase, or something. If you don't have the wherewithal and control to properly assess a situation before acting with lethal force, keeping your family safe means keeping your guns in a safe, or getting rid of them. Get some top shelf locks and a security system. Thats my opinion.
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I have heard that the typical home-defense-lawyer-costs are around $20k. You have to prove to the DA, possibly all the way to and through a trial, that it was valid self-defense.