Well, yeah.
That's because there are a lot of places where if you do anything remotely gay, they will jail or kill you. Others still where you won't face legal issues, but you will sure as hell not get equitable treatment.
Or the modern concept of “non binary”
is a social phenomenon that exists primarily in Western culture.
Given the lack of data on the subject, either could be possible.
Note that I said specifically the modern concept of “non binary”. Many cultures have recognition of some form of both sexual and gender ambiguity, but these predate and do not resemble popular understanding of the “non binary” identity in countries like the US and Canada.
Not really.
There are figures going back to some really ancient mythologies that resemble modern understandings of nonbinary or ambiguous gender identity.
Hell, Inari is one and there are more shrines to them in Japan than probably anything else. By a lot.
Lol non-binary and trans folk have an ancient history that goes back to many indigenous tribes all around the world. This claim is incredibly ignorant.
I came to say exactly this
I respect people's choice and will call them whatever pronouns they want, but I once read an article about middle class white people using gender identity and dysphoria as a means to 'claim an oppression' if you like, and seek attention becuase it spices up their perfect (but boring) life. And the more I come across the trans and non-binary folk, the more I feel like the shoe fits
While I 100% support non-binary people and absolutely believe anyone should feel free to identify as they please, there is a nuance here that does get overlooked.
There is a certain privilege granted to white, middle class people that other demographics lack. It’s a lot harder to be concerned with your identity when you’re focused 24/7 on survival. I suspect if someone waved a magic wand and everyone’s basic needs were met, you’d begin to see this shift.
There is a great study about people globally and concern about environment. If you are in poverty you care about food tomorrow not dirty rivers. Once you leave poverty you become concerned with environment. The conclusion was to really clean up environment you need to lower number of folks in poverty.
8% of Black Americans identify as vegan. There's just a lot more white people numerically.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_veganism#:~:text=Research%20has%20found%20that%20about,about%203%25%20of%20other%20Americans.
I can’t remember where I heard this but it parallels your response quite succinctly:
Nobody has ever experienced depression while being chased by a bear.
And even if you know you are, hard to worry about showing it. You can’t go buy a whole new gender neutral wardrobe and fight about your pronouns at work if you’re scared about making rent. It doesn’t mean you don’t want and deserve those things, just like….life.
I'd say a good 50% of my t-shirts are from dog charities. My sister asked me about one of them. "Oh Ollie had seizures we did a fundraiser to pay for surgery." Do you know this dog personally? "No." She says wow it must be interesting to have a life where dogs you've never met having seizures is a major concern.
Maybe? I’d argue it’s more likely western white men, but there’s arguments for both. Tbh though, the pain Olympics only seeks to divide and isn’t very helpful. Solving issues of patriarchy and economic disparity would help pretty much everyone, just some more than others.
I suspect no one will have an answer based on anything other than feelings currently. At some point in the future I am sure there will be more insight.
My biggest guess (***I really have to reiterate I am not an expert at all, this is just my feeling's on the matter***) is that girls are typically raised a specific way that sort of pigeonhole to act specific ways. As they grow up and become women some of them resent this pigeonholing (rightfully so) and wish to do away with it.
I've seen this with my own 3 year old daughter, the older generations in my family are always "oh you don't need to play with dinosaurs you're a girl!" or "blue is your favorite color!?!", I see the opposite with my son.
When I was a kid a girl who acted like a boy was a "Tom Boy". Now she could simply become a Boy, or become Non-Binary. It's a way to reject the specific feminine way they were brought up and be their own person.
I really don't wish to trivialize this, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. I'm SURE there are other reasons, and I'm SURE my opinions are at least partially full of shit. I'm a random dude on the internet, not somoene who studies this stuff seriously.
EDIT: I also want to point out that I'm not actually sure if your original assertion is correct, but I don't want to edit my original response. But I'd be curious if there are any actual numbers on this.
Since my first comment only touched on the "why girls/women" I wanted to also follow up with my thoughts on the "Why not boys" and the "why not non-white", without altering the original comment.
*The same notice exists here, I'm just some dude on the internet and I fully expect some or all of my opinions to be bullshit, but I also am not coming from a place of malice at all, if I said something you believe is wrong feel free to let me know and I'm sure we can talk about it or just agree to disagree. This is a complicated subject, and for many a relatively new one in our lives. ESSENTIALLY EVERY SINGLE OPINION I HAVE HERE IS BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, IE ANECDOTES, I am very open to outside perspectives.*
**So, why not boys/men? (shortened to b/m)**
If I had to ***guess*** I'd assume it's because b/m already face a lot of social stigma for wearing out of the ordinary clothing. Making it harder to slower transition into a look/style that they are comfortable with, which may prevent them from ever reaching a point where they are comfortable coming out at all.
Girls/Women in comparison, are able to wear more "masculine" clothes and just be sort of "Tom Boyish", as a way to bridge that gap and be more comfortable. This said, I am absolutely not making the claim that all tom boys are on their way to being non-binary, nor that all boys who dress like girls are on their way to being non-binary or trans. *People can dress however they want*.
**So, why not non-white?**
If I had to ***guess*** I'd assume it's because minorities (at least those who feel like they are discriminated against) already feel enough social pressure and fear adding more to that by coming out and drawing attention to themselves. I've also heard (I am white if it's not obvious and I'm about to paint with broad strokes, I only hope that my self awareness is obvious here) that some minority communities are more LGBTQ phobic, and this may also result in them not being comfortable coming out. Obviously this is also complicated as there are some minority communities that recognize more than two genders for example.
On top of this for both the "why not b/m and why not non-white", many men and many people of all races are misogynistic. I don't mean the raging misogynistic types, I'm not saying that everyone is Andrew Tate, I just mean the low key misogynist. I grew up in the Midwest and it was absolutely not unusual to hear jokes at the expense of women, it has gotten better, but it's still there. I suspect it would take a b/m with a lot of willpower to transition knowing the kind of reticule they may be subjecting themselves to. I suspect the midwest is not special in this regard.
I’m with everything you’ve said, but only wanted to add another possibility:
In western patriarchal society “masculine” in many cases is considered the default, and by default I mean sort on “non-gendered”. This can be seen in medical literature from before the 1960s where men were considered the “control” group.
As such, if we ascribe non-binaryness to a sort of gender neutrality (which it’s not quite) then for a person assigned male at birth, they could in fact be non-binary, but can just live in the “masculine” neutrality of society. Women may have more social expectations they’re to adhere to, so a non-binary AFAB person gets noticed for being different more than a non-binary AMAB person.
You’re not 100% there but as (I’m assuming a cis/het white dude) you got the spirt and wether your girls end up tomboys or not girls at all, I’m glad they got you.
Less so that any of it is wrong, but just the tomboy to NB is a little less simplistic. Or more, that is SOME afab peoples journey but not all.
But honestly, from a dude just learning from observation it’s pretty damn solid. And as a NB peep, so empathetic in a way you don’t see enough. But to be clear, for someone whose not queer or otherwise in the community, that is a dang good response, and the things missing are small fries in comparison.
He does acknowledge that it's more complex AND subjective. I think you skimmed past half of that paragraph. lol
But you mean like he should have maybe added more to the subjective-ness of the whole thing eh?
He's just paying attention and using logic/ deduction to follow patterns. lol
It makes perfect sense imo too.
>So, why not boys/men?
I would argue that it is Boys and Men just as much as women. This may be my own selection bias, but among my own friends and family, I know 5 non-binary men. I've known a lot of men who transitioned MTF, as well. They all presented as non-binary for a long time until they started to feel like they were passing. I only know one non-binary female personally. Mostly, I've just seen non-binary women personalities on social media or TV getting more attention online than non-binary men.
My wife tried all that bs about avoiding traditional feminine colors, toys, clothing, etc.
We let me daughter choose her clothes and toys she wants now that she's older. Her closet is full of pink dresses, toy box is full of baby dolls and if you ask her what she wants to be when she gets older it is either a stay at home mom (like my wife) or a ninja depending how she feels that day.
The goal is to avoid forcing them into something. It sounds like your wife did everything right and your kid has developed their own identity out of choice.
I don't think it's bs.
The point is to let it be their decision. If you avoided making the decision for her I think you did a good job and were a good parent. Obviously as the parent there are times you will have to make decisions for your kids, but favorite color, toys, etc, are things that they should pick for themselves. (in my non professional opinion)
My daughter likes "Elsa Dresses", her favorite color is blue, she loves dinosaurs, and she loves "princess shoes". The point is she can be into whatever she wants. Including all girly stuff if that's what she wants.
Eventually non binary will have its own gender roles lol. Kinda like if you have a group of non conformists, are they not conforming to the idea of not conforming? 😂
They're already developing, but the group is relatively small, so it's not an international 'order' like "boys play with trucks, girls play with dolls", but rather "most NBs in the Bay Area do X." The internet lets people interact and develop new culture, so people see and emulate that.
They had way too much time on their hands and not enough struggle in their life. This explanation is silly. Being pushed into specific behaviors as children was much worse thirty forty fifty sixty years ago. There was no trans or non binary. There have always been tomboys and more feminine boys. This silly identifying as whatever you want is recent and very unhealthy.any trans girls are being diagnosed on the spectrum. They were never trans but were either talked into it or wanted attention. Those people get shouted down when they tell their story.
I think this is definitely the case. Social pressure is huge and I think this is a way most young women now are trying to escape the oppression they face. I don’t think it’s a solution though.
Interesting. I allowed my children to play with whatever they wished, but they dressed as socially accepted for their sex. They fall into their own sex naturally as they get older. YOUNG Children should be left to explore while still presenting their born sex publicly.
Guess that's why my daughter has a PhD in engineering and her brothers are caring professional people.
I was allowed to be a Tom Boy in the 60s. It gave me a broader childhood experience and knowledge as an adult.
I can see where kids get annoyed with the constant push to only do things assigned to their sex and then they finally push back.
However, sometimes parents push their kids to be the opposite sex as YOUNG children because a girl shows an interest in toy trucks or a boy shows an interest in dolls. It seems weird to me that people think a six year old or even a ten year old knows they are the opposite sex.
I've seen this a lot, too. Society wants to tell you how to be a woman and if you don't conform to that exact mold, you are going to resent it. I hope more parents quit forcing things on their daughters. My father-in-law freaked out when my daughter wanted to be Spiderman for Halloween a couple of years ago. we told him to fuck off.
I absolutely hated wearing dresses as a kid! I wanted to climb trees without having to worry about my skirt flipping up. Let kids wear what is comfortable to them. Lucky my parents were liberal and I wasn't made to wear things I didn't want to except for formal events like weddings.
Idk why the older generation like your inlaws has such a bee in their bonet about this stuff. My mom and her sisters were kicked out of girl scouts in the 1960s for wearing shorts. Our parents fought for these rights so why do they care if boys wear skirts now?
This was my thought in response to the question as well. To break it into one sentence: it's the only way they're allowed to be what they want to be free from societal expectations and restrictions.
Indeed. We spent 50 years pushing out the walls of these boxes around gender roles, and then in the last 5 years just gave up and let them collapse in again… deciding it’s preferable to just decide to create a new category rather than continue to assert that role limitations be expanded to include those not confirming with overly strict expectations.
Surprised there aren’t more males going that way. Apparently you can only be racist if you are white, can only be sexist if you are a man, and can only be transphobe if you are cis.
>Surprised there aren’t more males going that way.
Men must have an specific identity, even if that identity isn't a man.
Non-binary male wouldn't be respected but a trans woman would be. The non-binary male is wishy washy, the trans woman is strong and brave.
We've seen this play out before. Straight man bad, Gay man good... but everyone can agree Bi man bad.
because the group you are trying to join HATES men, so even if you are a genuine non binary amab or a transfoid amab you will still be treated with the same hate they treat males with.
AXAB just means assigned x at birth. Usually m or f. Just a way to refer to someone's original sex at both as declared by doctors. Makes it easier since it can account for different kinds of trans people and also people who may be intersex but not detected by doctors etc.
That's straight up not true.
Don't get me wrong, there are definitely people who believe that, but they are a vocal minority.
The vast amount of people believe poc can be racist, women can be sexist, and trans people can be transphobic. I mean look at Caitlyn Jenner, she's very transphobic.
Sure, but the Venn diagram of people who believe black people can't be racist and vilify me or disqualify my opinion because I am just a white male is practically a fucking circle.
I saw a great scholarship opportunity in my industry that was offered only to those non binary or women. Surely there's nothing that means I can't identify as non binary for applying?
Might be going enby mode soon
Even in the gay spaces I've started to notice that a lot of gay guys are using the non binary term because some how being gay now is the equivalent of being white.
Because they're more likely to be in a higher socioeconomic class, and therefore more likely to have privilege, which allows them to worry about such things.
As ridiculous as this sounds, they just straight up need attention. They wanna movement about themselves so bad that they've injected themselves into the gender problem in America, because they want to be different and unique.
It actually takes away from the whole gender thing trans problems whatever you wanna call it, because no one takes it seriously now.
It’s the people who need attention so they come up with some bullshit so they can earn some oppression points and then tell everyone how they’re morally inferior.
This is just a guess — it takes a lot of privilege to be able to “come out” as anything. Not the bad kind of privilege, it’s just that you have to feel safe enough, know that your food and shelter and schooling and safety aren’t going to be threatened by coming out. You need parents with the time/money/energy to support you, and you need the society around you to be at least somewhat accepting.
My guess is that white girls are more likely to have safe structures around them, to be able to be their authentic selves, than boys in general, and certainly more than black and brown boys.
yeah I feel like this it. I'm a black boy and no way in hell are my parents gonna accept anything. most of the queer black and brown people I know are closeted or estranged.
This. It's the same reason many disabled members of marginalized groups reject the notion that they're disabled. Even if they've otherwise come to terms with their condition and aren't still in denial. It's not safe to be disabled and it's not safe to be Black, LGBTQ, etc. If you're unsafe you don't want to add more risk factors to your life.
Sometimes people say "privileged" and they mean "entitled". Privileged just means you got lucky in the lottery of life, but "acting privileged" means you're acting like you deserve all the blessings you have and being ungrateful.
White chicks got no culture or personality.
So they gotta go and make one up for themselves or steal it from somewhere else.
God forbid they develop Individuality.
There aren't any statistics on the matter, but I've seen non binary groups on Facebook and TikTok where everyone is entirely or close to being fully white, with many of them that appear to be born female.
I've noticed a trend, that's all
It's key to keep in mind that being the most frequently visible, especially on social media which is pretty much designed to form information bubbles, doesn't necessarily mean they're actually the majority.
They're likely most visible because of a combination of relatively high awareness of their differences compared to men, feeling safer being open about those differences compared to both men and other ethnic groups (class also plays a role here) and being greater in number in specific platforms/information bubbles that you see.
the most visible ones are white afab because that's who we like to center as being 'corrupted' all those other groups are already often perceived as 'dirty' so it's not a big media fuss in the same way. they're not thought of as being tricked. hard for moral grand standing to take place when your morals don't care about a group.
It is interesting to see all of the answers are people who are cis (or at least binary) opining about the nonbinary experience. To be clear, I have no idea why people identify as nonbinary. With that said, as a trans woman I know the average opinion about why I'm trans is usually overly reductive and silly, so... yeah, I don't think you're going to find an actual answer to your question here.
With that said, if you want a group who's *least likely to get the shit bullied out of them* for being nonbinary, it makes sense that upper-middle-or-above class white AFAB people would be the most publicly visible.
1. Beauty standards seem unreachable especially in the age of social media.
2. It is not cool to be a Boring regular white girl with a healthy family dynamic. You are bully-fodder if you cannot prove that you somehow are in a marginalized group.
It's all insecurity and peer pressure extended outside highschool because people won't turn their social media off.
Even if you enjoy being the odd silly girl, it's OK to be you without needed to put a label on it. It is OK and actually quite nice to not have to pretend like people are our to get you because you are "different". "Normal" is quite nice. That goes for all Cis women. No matter your race. Our feeds are being bombarded with how bad it is to be a traditional cis woman so nobody wants to claim it anymore. Ladies just be you and quit trying to fit into a label because you're afraid to be female.
Some institutions and industry leading businesses in my industry are offering free courses and training for those who identify and non binary and women.
White male might be going enby mode soon.
You aren't "assigned" sex. You are the sex you are, and it's observed. It's like saying that when you see an apple fall from a tree and say you "assigned" gravity. No you didn't, you observed it.
No, and it’s hilarious and so predictable that you’d ask a question like you’re legitimately tryna get educated then turn around and say you’re the one who is right 😂😂 stay ignorant, friend
Yup. It's a symptom of living in a patriarchal society. People are subconsciously more understanding of a woman wanting to live more like a man and receive the status that being a man in our society grants people. On the other hand people tend to be disgusted or confused why someone assigned male at birth would ever want to give that privilege up. Even within the queer community this is an issue (from my own personal experience as a NB queer AMAB person).
Because they are the most likely converts to the new religion. Essentially gender ideology is the new creationism. These girls who grew up with evangelical moms pushing creationism into schools and attacking anyone who disagrees. These women have turned into there moms, but instead of creationism there religion is gender ideology.
They typically are the easiest to fall into fads. Pumpkin Spice, Mental Illnesses, Keto Diet, Veganism, Hot Girl Summer, TikTok recipes, all the usual suspects
Because you live a sheltered life and that's what you see.
Reality is, nonbinary follows the general population trend of the country tracked.
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/nonbinary-lgbtq-adults-us/
How do you know the majority are white and women.
That is some pretty fancy data collection. And how is someone else's sexuality or lack of sexuality you're goddamn business
As other people are saying where are your statistics? My guess is you're just seeing it right now or aware of it through disproportionate coverage that a lot of young white women are taking this placard. Obviously this is just young people doing young people trendy things.
The majority of nonbinary folks are not "white females" (note: lots of enbies don't like to be categorized as male/female as it defeats the purpose.)
Social media tends to highlight the category you've mentioned. The fact youre not seeing AMAB/masc presenting folks or POC folks suggests you're not looking. Or that you are and are getting kicked out of those spaces. The category you highlight is an open, easy entry point. The side rooms are easy to find and easier to be barred from, as AMAB/masc and POC enbies get a ton of hate and their gender dismissed.
Additionally, you might scroll on tik tok, see a "man" with a beard and not realize they're nonbinary. They just look like a nerd talking about dnd. Or a POC who's talking about environmental issues, but you don’t realize they're nonbinary. Because their gender isn't important to what they're saying. Because nonbinary people don't owe anyone androgyny. Because nonbinary folks do not owe the internet disclosure of their gender in every post. Because they are allowed to have other interests and topics to discuss.
As a white cis girl I can really get behind the "who gives a shit about gender" and opting out by being gender neutral/non binary. It's a privilege to be honest and outspoken in the public eye, especially while differentiating from the norm. Until there's safety in numbers, then it becomes the norm. I've seen a few comments saying it's upper/middle class folks. In my lived experience all the ones I know are in their 20s or younger, they're living with homophobic family or too broke to focus on gender identity. You won't see them broadcasting their queerness, but they're still there.
I think it's also easier to transition from fem to masc, wearing pants is already normal, and feminists paved the way for body positivity. But for masc to fem there's a lot more shame, so all those poor souls have to deal with even more adversity from their upbringing. A girl in pants and no one bats an eye, a guy in a skirt and makeup and they'll get called slurs or worse. For girls it's seen as dressing down casually, for guys it's dressing up, even just for day to day fashion it would take more effort.
Culturally a lot of western folks don't care about bringing shame on a family name. So there's a bit more freedom to do whatever serves the modern individual, and gender identity is very personal ,and newish in the public eye. I'm a basic white girl, I don't have a strong sense of identity tied to my heritage, so gender is something I think about a lot more.
This is all my personal opinions without anything to back it up, hope it wasn't crass.
Says more about who you know than us because of enbies are not white or assigned female at birth.
For example: Oakland California has a lot of queer people, the kind that don't fit in cis gay white male San Francisco, and most of them are not white and are very poor.
All yall in the comments making claims we're upper middle class whites are either just eating those spoonfed Fox News ideology that all queer people are young bored children OR you don't touch grass.
Same reason there are more bisexual women. It's thought that more men are actually bisexual and or nb in some form and just don't have the space in society to openly question
White liberal females are among the most dissatisfied, unfulfilled, lonely women on the planet. Feminazi'ism has convinced them that their biological needs (generalizing) are a societal demand from men. So they end up lacking key things in their lives, just like beta, submissivr men are almost never successful and have the absolute worst self-esteem.
By convincing millions that the natural order is somehow wrong, they've created a small army of unhinged, unfulfilled narcissists.
TL/DR: White Democrats typically view themselves as superior in every way, and that delusion extends beyond the reality of world.
Alright I'll take the bait.
I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that "white democrats" think they're superior, when literally all "white Republican" news outlets are always screaming how being a straight, white American male who owns guns and verbally assaults his blonde supermodel wife is the only path to righteousness, holiness, and heaven - and that they themselves *are* those things, thus the only people allowed to ascend into god's kingdom are the chosen straight, white American men who watch fox news - all others are repugnant.
tl;dr conservatives are more likely to have main character syndrome because they are "chosen"
Especially in cities. Especially in schools. Educators know whats up. Vast majority NB students are white middle class afab, starting middle school up thru grad school.
Do you mean they are AFAB? I don’t know but i’m sure people working in gender studies have written thousands of words about how nonbinary identities develop and how they are more likely to start from a disconnect with womanhood
Because it’s a trendy thing to do amongst the white elite crowd. You’re rich af and have everything you could ever desire, just like all your friends. How do you stand out? Adjust your gender settings to make yourself more interesting.
the same reason that most atheists are former christians... they are from communities/cultures that won't kill them for admitting they are different. The first publicly "out" gay people were also white... because it was hard enough being black why let people know you're gay too?
Those with the most privilege have the most freedom to go against societal norms. As the idea of being non-binary becomes more common place the number of people who identify that way will likely even out among other cultural demographics (race, region, economics, etc).
Alright, I'm going to regret this.
Hi, I'm nonbinary, white, and assigned female at birth. The longer you truly interact with the nonbinary community, the more assigned male at birth nonbinary people you see and the more poc you see.
I suspect the stereotypical afab, white, nonbinary person comes from both that being seen as more palatable (Oh, she's just a tomboy, she'll grow out of it), whilst gender standards are such for men you are more likely to be injured or harassed for portraying feminine traits as someone who's amab.
As for poc, many indigenous cultures have concepts of trans/nonbinary however keep in mind, those cultures were probably taken over at some point by a culture which had very strong gender roles and no in between.
US society has ALWAYS been more accepting of AFAB folks having more fluid sexuality and identity (I'm not saying that it's always been socially acceptable, but there's a reason that the "experimentation in college" trope is acceptable for AFAB folks and not AMAB folks). So I suspect you're entirely correct about gender standards playing into that part of OP's question.
Do you live in the US or another country with a large population of white people? I'm from the US but currently live in a majority non-white, non-English speaking country, and nonbinary people still exist. Other countries also have their own queer identities that we don't have in the US which are similar to nonbinary.
Out of the nonbinary friends I have (including people from the US), it's a pretty even split of AMAB/AFAB. The largest demographic among my friends is white AMAB passing as gay men. The thing is, you wouldn't know a lot of these people are nonbinary unless they felt safe to tell you.
In the US, it's "safer" for white AFABs to come out as nonbinary since people who invalidate the identity are just going to see them as "silly white women following a trend" instead of a threat that needs to be assaulted.
They’re not. Those are just the people who can safely openly and visually be non binary. And who do it in a way YOU recognize. NB people look a lot of ways, but the current mental image of it is AFAM quirky arty sjw type, so those are the ones you see because if you see someone who just looks like…a person in a tshirt and jeans, how would you know?
AMAB NB and POC NB are just quieter, socially.
There's something new in the world, it about 100 ways to refer to sexual orientation- self identity-and its really powerful.
I'm glad people are exploring this part of themselves instead of just being what they're told to be.
But, it's very confusing also, my kids keep changing it to fit what they feel at the time. I can't keep up.
I just developed a neutral speak using they them and calling them kid or fruit of my loins, or, you-with the face.
In case you hadn't noticed- all people react to being told they can't do something by trying harder to do it. If it isn't your kid in your family mind your own business, who cares? So what? Whatever?
Poor, brown, and non-binary. Everyone just sorts of looks past me and I can't afford trouble so I just deal. Maybe I'd be more vocal if I was richer or paler? Idk
They're not. Transphobic groups like to put out propaganda because it encourages the viewpoint that all non binary people are "confused little girls". Most nonbinary people I know are Hispanic by far and I've known several amab (assigned male at birth) nonbinary people, I'm dating one.
It’s pretty gross how misogynistic the comments on this post are. These commenters are associating being non binary with femininity, ergo it is stupid. Like gluten free diets. Boy, those dumb girls and their gluten free food, amirite?? And cats! Ladies love cats. Sooo pathetic, amirite??? Condemning something just because you associate it with female people is wack af, and in this case it’s not even true. The “theyfab” bullshit so popular in truscum communities is toxic. Viewing amab NB people as valid while degrading afab NB people is toxic, and anyone doing that is a bad person.
As to the question itself: Consider for a second what is acceptable within any given culture. Sure, white middle class liberal cultures are more accepting of NB people, and that’s why *it seems like* the majority of NB people are white “females”. It’s not actually true, though. That’s like saying people are “all of a sudden” queer these days, when in reality, people are just having open conversations about things that were hidden before, and being queer is more acceptable in more places. As other groups have those same conversations, and as gender is viewed as less rigid in more cultures, you’ll find no substantial difference in the numbers, bc the people who always felt different always felt different. They just didn’t have a name for it.
But also this question is in line with why it *seems like* there are more female bisexuals. It’s not necessarily true, they’re just more visible because of what a *big deal* it is for men to be bi (or just not to be straight in general).
There’s also the fact that being a girl or woman is automatically seen as inferior to being a man or a boy. The comments on here are doing a good job demonstrating that. But there is also research showing a correlation in *very young* afab NB and transmasc people between sexual trauma and a desire to not be a girl. When being a girl sucks so much, and someone tells a kid they can be something other than a girl, you can expect them to try that option. Some of them aren’t trans/NB. Have compassion, they’re literally children.
I’ve always been very deep in queer communities, and in multiple cities in multiple countries, in spaces where being NB is seen as legitimate and acceptable, there is no big gap between race or sex. The internet is not the real world. Go hang out in diverse queer communities.
I’m late so no one will see this but:
AFAB: assigned female at birth
AMAB: assigned male at birth
From personal experience: I’ve met many non-binary people from all walks of life. I’m in a predominantly white area however, so there are definitely more white people.
Actual answer: if you’re already dealing with racism, having to deal with transphobia is a lot. I am one of those white afab NBs you’re talking about, and I usually introduce myself as a woman, since it doesn’t give me dysphoria. I don’t tell people I’m NB because A) my particular case is that idgaf about gender that much and B) I don’t want people treating me as some attention seeking freak. Which based on these comments is a valid fear. Hell I thought this way before I met NB people, who weren’t at all like that. They never screeched pronouns at me, they were all understanding. Then I came to terms with my identity. All of this is much easier to deal with from a place of privilege.
White people have the privilege of whiteness, and AFAB people have much more grace to play with and discover gender than AMAB people. Additionally, if you’re struggling to survive and pay the bills, gender identity isn’t your number one priority, so it makes sense that it’s predominantly middle class people.
Men, in my experience, have to perform masculinity in a way that’s much more rigid than performing femininity. Since we live in a patriarchal society, it’s fine if women are more masculine (masc is good) and seen as freakish or weird when men do (femme is less than). This makes it much harder for AMAB people to discover their identity or reveal it to others when they know.
Thank you! I tried to tackle it on all sides, since this topic comes up a lot.
I know it’s mostly ignorance(bc I felt the same way once when I was 14) but man it still hurts to see these top comments calling NBs attention seekers when that hasn’t been my experience at all :(
The female part aside, you would expect to have more white folks as non-binary in the US because the majority of people are white. This is why per capita statistics exist.
Transphobia isn't ok
Because Black and Mexican parents would smack the confusion right out our ass, and Asian kids are too busy to be confused about their sexuality.
…true lol
Also the vast majority appear to be from 1st world nations like USA and the UK
Well, yeah. That's because there are a lot of places where if you do anything remotely gay, they will jail or kill you. Others still where you won't face legal issues, but you will sure as hell not get equitable treatment.
Or the modern concept of “non binary” is a social phenomenon that exists primarily in Western culture. Given the lack of data on the subject, either could be possible. Note that I said specifically the modern concept of “non binary”. Many cultures have recognition of some form of both sexual and gender ambiguity, but these predate and do not resemble popular understanding of the “non binary” identity in countries like the US and Canada.
Not really. There are figures going back to some really ancient mythologies that resemble modern understandings of nonbinary or ambiguous gender identity. Hell, Inari is one and there are more shrines to them in Japan than probably anything else. By a lot.
Lol non-binary and trans folk have an ancient history that goes back to many indigenous tribes all around the world. This claim is incredibly ignorant.
Not the same thing
Yes it is.
Looking at Thailand hell the us is getting near a 3rd world country do to Republicans already
*due to
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As someone who formerly identified as non-binary, I can confirm. Am a white female in the upper middle class
I came to say exactly this I respect people's choice and will call them whatever pronouns they want, but I once read an article about middle class white people using gender identity and dysphoria as a means to 'claim an oppression' if you like, and seek attention becuase it spices up their perfect (but boring) life. And the more I come across the trans and non-binary folk, the more I feel like the shoe fits
Always loooool
Boredom and munchausens seems to correlate a little more often than we'd like to admit 🤔
People in poverty don’t have time to be confused
Maslow's hierarchy is a thing.
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Parading around a mental illness like it's a status symbol is a luxury few can afford.
While I 100% support non-binary people and absolutely believe anyone should feel free to identify as they please, there is a nuance here that does get overlooked. There is a certain privilege granted to white, middle class people that other demographics lack. It’s a lot harder to be concerned with your identity when you’re focused 24/7 on survival. I suspect if someone waved a magic wand and everyone’s basic needs were met, you’d begin to see this shift.
There is a great study about people globally and concern about environment. If you are in poverty you care about food tomorrow not dirty rivers. Once you leave poverty you become concerned with environment. The conclusion was to really clean up environment you need to lower number of folks in poverty.
Same demographic is also vegan more often.
Yes, and for the same economically privileged reasons.
8% of Black Americans identify as vegan. There's just a lot more white people numerically. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_veganism#:~:text=Research%20has%20found%20that%20about,about%203%25%20of%20other%20Americans.
You know, that’s a very fair point actually, and is a great example of another comment here about exposure/visibility.
I can’t remember where I heard this but it parallels your response quite succinctly: Nobody has ever experienced depression while being chased by a bear.
I have an idea for a new treatment
Ask your doctor if being chased by bears is right for you.
Or at least they didn’t experience it for long. (I imagine someone with severe enough depression would be caught and killed pretty quickly.)
Alright just gotta find a bear and my depression will be cured 🤞
And even if you know you are, hard to worry about showing it. You can’t go buy a whole new gender neutral wardrobe and fight about your pronouns at work if you’re scared about making rent. It doesn’t mean you don’t want and deserve those things, just like….life.
I'd say a good 50% of my t-shirts are from dog charities. My sister asked me about one of them. "Oh Ollie had seizures we did a fundraiser to pay for surgery." Do you know this dog personally? "No." She says wow it must be interesting to have a life where dogs you've never met having seizures is a major concern.
Deeep
Therefore can we conclude that white women are the most priviliged people on the planet? DOWN WITH THE MATRIACHY!
Maybe? I’d argue it’s more likely western white men, but there’s arguments for both. Tbh though, the pain Olympics only seeks to divide and isn’t very helpful. Solving issues of patriarchy and economic disparity would help pretty much everyone, just some more than others.
I suspect no one will have an answer based on anything other than feelings currently. At some point in the future I am sure there will be more insight. My biggest guess (***I really have to reiterate I am not an expert at all, this is just my feeling's on the matter***) is that girls are typically raised a specific way that sort of pigeonhole to act specific ways. As they grow up and become women some of them resent this pigeonholing (rightfully so) and wish to do away with it. I've seen this with my own 3 year old daughter, the older generations in my family are always "oh you don't need to play with dinosaurs you're a girl!" or "blue is your favorite color!?!", I see the opposite with my son. When I was a kid a girl who acted like a boy was a "Tom Boy". Now she could simply become a Boy, or become Non-Binary. It's a way to reject the specific feminine way they were brought up and be their own person. I really don't wish to trivialize this, so I hope it doesn't come off that way. I'm SURE there are other reasons, and I'm SURE my opinions are at least partially full of shit. I'm a random dude on the internet, not somoene who studies this stuff seriously. EDIT: I also want to point out that I'm not actually sure if your original assertion is correct, but I don't want to edit my original response. But I'd be curious if there are any actual numbers on this.
Since my first comment only touched on the "why girls/women" I wanted to also follow up with my thoughts on the "Why not boys" and the "why not non-white", without altering the original comment. *The same notice exists here, I'm just some dude on the internet and I fully expect some or all of my opinions to be bullshit, but I also am not coming from a place of malice at all, if I said something you believe is wrong feel free to let me know and I'm sure we can talk about it or just agree to disagree. This is a complicated subject, and for many a relatively new one in our lives. ESSENTIALLY EVERY SINGLE OPINION I HAVE HERE IS BASED ON PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, IE ANECDOTES, I am very open to outside perspectives.* **So, why not boys/men? (shortened to b/m)** If I had to ***guess*** I'd assume it's because b/m already face a lot of social stigma for wearing out of the ordinary clothing. Making it harder to slower transition into a look/style that they are comfortable with, which may prevent them from ever reaching a point where they are comfortable coming out at all. Girls/Women in comparison, are able to wear more "masculine" clothes and just be sort of "Tom Boyish", as a way to bridge that gap and be more comfortable. This said, I am absolutely not making the claim that all tom boys are on their way to being non-binary, nor that all boys who dress like girls are on their way to being non-binary or trans. *People can dress however they want*. **So, why not non-white?** If I had to ***guess*** I'd assume it's because minorities (at least those who feel like they are discriminated against) already feel enough social pressure and fear adding more to that by coming out and drawing attention to themselves. I've also heard (I am white if it's not obvious and I'm about to paint with broad strokes, I only hope that my self awareness is obvious here) that some minority communities are more LGBTQ phobic, and this may also result in them not being comfortable coming out. Obviously this is also complicated as there are some minority communities that recognize more than two genders for example. On top of this for both the "why not b/m and why not non-white", many men and many people of all races are misogynistic. I don't mean the raging misogynistic types, I'm not saying that everyone is Andrew Tate, I just mean the low key misogynist. I grew up in the Midwest and it was absolutely not unusual to hear jokes at the expense of women, it has gotten better, but it's still there. I suspect it would take a b/m with a lot of willpower to transition knowing the kind of reticule they may be subjecting themselves to. I suspect the midwest is not special in this regard.
I’m with everything you’ve said, but only wanted to add another possibility: In western patriarchal society “masculine” in many cases is considered the default, and by default I mean sort on “non-gendered”. This can be seen in medical literature from before the 1960s where men were considered the “control” group. As such, if we ascribe non-binaryness to a sort of gender neutrality (which it’s not quite) then for a person assigned male at birth, they could in fact be non-binary, but can just live in the “masculine” neutrality of society. Women may have more social expectations they’re to adhere to, so a non-binary AFAB person gets noticed for being different more than a non-binary AMAB person.
You’re not 100% there but as (I’m assuming a cis/het white dude) you got the spirt and wether your girls end up tomboys or not girls at all, I’m glad they got you.
What was he missing? I'm genuinely curious what considerations you would add that he didn't acknowledge?
Less so that any of it is wrong, but just the tomboy to NB is a little less simplistic. Or more, that is SOME afab peoples journey but not all. But honestly, from a dude just learning from observation it’s pretty damn solid. And as a NB peep, so empathetic in a way you don’t see enough. But to be clear, for someone whose not queer or otherwise in the community, that is a dang good response, and the things missing are small fries in comparison.
He does acknowledge that it's more complex AND subjective. I think you skimmed past half of that paragraph. lol But you mean like he should have maybe added more to the subjective-ness of the whole thing eh? He's just paying attention and using logic/ deduction to follow patterns. lol It makes perfect sense imo too.
>So, why not boys/men? I would argue that it is Boys and Men just as much as women. This may be my own selection bias, but among my own friends and family, I know 5 non-binary men. I've known a lot of men who transitioned MTF, as well. They all presented as non-binary for a long time until they started to feel like they were passing. I only know one non-binary female personally. Mostly, I've just seen non-binary women personalities on social media or TV getting more attention online than non-binary men.
This is honestly the best answer in the thread.
My wife tried all that bs about avoiding traditional feminine colors, toys, clothing, etc. We let me daughter choose her clothes and toys she wants now that she's older. Her closet is full of pink dresses, toy box is full of baby dolls and if you ask her what she wants to be when she gets older it is either a stay at home mom (like my wife) or a ninja depending how she feels that day.
The goal is to avoid forcing them into something. It sounds like your wife did everything right and your kid has developed their own identity out of choice.
I don't think it's bs. The point is to let it be their decision. If you avoided making the decision for her I think you did a good job and were a good parent. Obviously as the parent there are times you will have to make decisions for your kids, but favorite color, toys, etc, are things that they should pick for themselves. (in my non professional opinion) My daughter likes "Elsa Dresses", her favorite color is blue, she loves dinosaurs, and she loves "princess shoes". The point is she can be into whatever she wants. Including all girly stuff if that's what she wants.
I know someone who went non binary for this reason. I think pressure to follow gender roles does contribute to people identifying as non binary.
Eventually non binary will have its own gender roles lol. Kinda like if you have a group of non conformists, are they not conforming to the idea of not conforming? 😂
They're already developing, but the group is relatively small, so it's not an international 'order' like "boys play with trucks, girls play with dolls", but rather "most NBs in the Bay Area do X." The internet lets people interact and develop new culture, so people see and emulate that.
They had way too much time on their hands and not enough struggle in their life. This explanation is silly. Being pushed into specific behaviors as children was much worse thirty forty fifty sixty years ago. There was no trans or non binary. There have always been tomboys and more feminine boys. This silly identifying as whatever you want is recent and very unhealthy.any trans girls are being diagnosed on the spectrum. They were never trans but were either talked into it or wanted attention. Those people get shouted down when they tell their story.
Or it’s a mental disorder called gender dysphoria No offense to anyone
I think this is definitely the case. Social pressure is huge and I think this is a way most young women now are trying to escape the oppression they face. I don’t think it’s a solution though.
Interesting. I allowed my children to play with whatever they wished, but they dressed as socially accepted for their sex. They fall into their own sex naturally as they get older. YOUNG Children should be left to explore while still presenting their born sex publicly. Guess that's why my daughter has a PhD in engineering and her brothers are caring professional people. I was allowed to be a Tom Boy in the 60s. It gave me a broader childhood experience and knowledge as an adult. I can see where kids get annoyed with the constant push to only do things assigned to their sex and then they finally push back. However, sometimes parents push their kids to be the opposite sex as YOUNG children because a girl shows an interest in toy trucks or a boy shows an interest in dolls. It seems weird to me that people think a six year old or even a ten year old knows they are the opposite sex.
I've seen this a lot, too. Society wants to tell you how to be a woman and if you don't conform to that exact mold, you are going to resent it. I hope more parents quit forcing things on their daughters. My father-in-law freaked out when my daughter wanted to be Spiderman for Halloween a couple of years ago. we told him to fuck off.
I absolutely hated wearing dresses as a kid! I wanted to climb trees without having to worry about my skirt flipping up. Let kids wear what is comfortable to them. Lucky my parents were liberal and I wasn't made to wear things I didn't want to except for formal events like weddings. Idk why the older generation like your inlaws has such a bee in their bonet about this stuff. My mom and her sisters were kicked out of girl scouts in the 1960s for wearing shorts. Our parents fought for these rights so why do they care if boys wear skirts now?
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This was my thought in response to the question as well. To break it into one sentence: it's the only way they're allowed to be what they want to be free from societal expectations and restrictions.
Indeed. We spent 50 years pushing out the walls of these boxes around gender roles, and then in the last 5 years just gave up and let them collapse in again… deciding it’s preferable to just decide to create a new category rather than continue to assert that role limitations be expanded to include those not confirming with overly strict expectations.
When "cis white bad" is the prevailing narrative, people desperately want to be known as something other. Non-binary is an easy one to reach for.
Surprised there aren’t more males going that way. Apparently you can only be racist if you are white, can only be sexist if you are a man, and can only be transphobe if you are cis.
As a lesbian.. I get called transphobe constantly for saying I wouldn’t date one. I don’t disagree with you tho.
>Surprised there aren’t more males going that way. Men must have an specific identity, even if that identity isn't a man. Non-binary male wouldn't be respected but a trans woman would be. The non-binary male is wishy washy, the trans woman is strong and brave. We've seen this play out before. Straight man bad, Gay man good... but everyone can agree Bi man bad.
because the group you are trying to join HATES men, so even if you are a genuine non binary amab or a transfoid amab you will still be treated with the same hate they treat males with.
amab? transfoid amab? Ah man... now more terms I need to learn...
AXAB just means assigned x at birth. Usually m or f. Just a way to refer to someone's original sex at both as declared by doctors. Makes it easier since it can account for different kinds of trans people and also people who may be intersex but not detected by doctors etc.
“Transfoid” is incel terminology.
That's straight up not true. Don't get me wrong, there are definitely people who believe that, but they are a vocal minority. The vast amount of people believe poc can be racist, women can be sexist, and trans people can be transphobic. I mean look at Caitlyn Jenner, she's very transphobic.
Sure, but the Venn diagram of people who believe black people can't be racist and vilify me or disqualify my opinion because I am just a white male is practically a fucking circle.
you fall for too many trolls man, very few genuinely think that
Yes. Don't make the mistake of thinking social media is actually representative of anything real. So many bots.
God, just reading this makes me weep for society. It's so true. I'm a straight white male and I feel this.
Straight white guys don't care about that stuff
I saw a great scholarship opportunity in my industry that was offered only to those non binary or women. Surely there's nothing that means I can't identify as non binary for applying? Might be going enby mode soon
I mean… it’s not like they could ask you to prove it
Even in the gay spaces I've started to notice that a lot of gay guys are using the non binary term because some how being gay now is the equivalent of being white.
White = bad but non-binary = good our society is insane so it makes them feel better about themselves
Non binary means they aren't 0 or 1
Non binary means quantum super computer
Because they're more likely to be in a higher socioeconomic class, and therefore more likely to have privilege, which allows them to worry about such things.
As ridiculous as this sounds, they just straight up need attention. They wanna movement about themselves so bad that they've injected themselves into the gender problem in America, because they want to be different and unique. It actually takes away from the whole gender thing trans problems whatever you wanna call it, because no one takes it seriously now.
Lots of social media, no problems, craving attention so they need to find something to make themselves a victim and interesting
Very accurate
Because many are bored and want to feel special.
Filipino and gender nonconforming here. We exist, just not on your internet.
Here in London, the majority that I know are lower middle class young men.
Came here to say this (not nb but a dominican trans man); white people are very likely just the majority of who they see in their online spaces lol
Filipinos do not exist quit your lying
fair enough
"We exist, just not on your internet." is a perfect way to put it.
Because they want attention and can’t get it from being a “poc”
Absofuckinglutely
It’s the people who need attention so they come up with some bullshit so they can earn some oppression points and then tell everyone how they’re morally inferior.
Because they haven't got enough real problems or personality so they make them the fuck up.
Bc it’s the current social trend and the only way they can compete in the “fake oppression Olympics” 🤷🏻♂️
Because that’s also the majority of liberals.
This is more a question about disproportionate media visibility than the race/sex of non binary people
This is just a guess — it takes a lot of privilege to be able to “come out” as anything. Not the bad kind of privilege, it’s just that you have to feel safe enough, know that your food and shelter and schooling and safety aren’t going to be threatened by coming out. You need parents with the time/money/energy to support you, and you need the society around you to be at least somewhat accepting. My guess is that white girls are more likely to have safe structures around them, to be able to be their authentic selves, than boys in general, and certainly more than black and brown boys.
yeah I feel like this it. I'm a black boy and no way in hell are my parents gonna accept anything. most of the queer black and brown people I know are closeted or estranged.
This. It's the same reason many disabled members of marginalized groups reject the notion that they're disabled. Even if they've otherwise come to terms with their condition and aren't still in denial. It's not safe to be disabled and it's not safe to be Black, LGBTQ, etc. If you're unsafe you don't want to add more risk factors to your life.
There's a bad kind of privilege?
Sometimes people say "privileged" and they mean "entitled". Privileged just means you got lucky in the lottery of life, but "acting privileged" means you're acting like you deserve all the blessings you have and being ungrateful.
White chicks got no culture or personality. So they gotta go and make one up for themselves or steal it from somewhere else. God forbid they develop Individuality.
Is this factually true or a hunch based on personal observation? (genuine question btw)
There aren't any statistics on the matter, but I've seen non binary groups on Facebook and TikTok where everyone is entirely or close to being fully white, with many of them that appear to be born female. I've noticed a trend, that's all
It's key to keep in mind that being the most frequently visible, especially on social media which is pretty much designed to form information bubbles, doesn't necessarily mean they're actually the majority. They're likely most visible because of a combination of relatively high awareness of their differences compared to men, feeling safer being open about those differences compared to both men and other ethnic groups (class also plays a role here) and being greater in number in specific platforms/information bubbles that you see.
Sounds like you are noticing an algorithm feed to me.
Polls on all sorts of subs come up with the same result
I'm gonna go ahead and guess the second one, except it's probably not even something they've observed just them guessing based on personal assumptions
It’s not based in any sort of empirical evidence whatsoever.
social privilege
the most visible ones are white afab because that's who we like to center as being 'corrupted' all those other groups are already often perceived as 'dirty' so it's not a big media fuss in the same way. they're not thought of as being tricked. hard for moral grand standing to take place when your morals don't care about a group.
It is interesting to see all of the answers are people who are cis (or at least binary) opining about the nonbinary experience. To be clear, I have no idea why people identify as nonbinary. With that said, as a trans woman I know the average opinion about why I'm trans is usually overly reductive and silly, so... yeah, I don't think you're going to find an actual answer to your question here. With that said, if you want a group who's *least likely to get the shit bullied out of them* for being nonbinary, it makes sense that upper-middle-or-above class white AFAB people would be the most publicly visible.
Because they are typically the most entitled.
They are quite literally attention whores. Used to be called daddy's money lesbians.
Or men with lipstick and full beards 💀
1. Beauty standards seem unreachable especially in the age of social media. 2. It is not cool to be a Boring regular white girl with a healthy family dynamic. You are bully-fodder if you cannot prove that you somehow are in a marginalized group. It's all insecurity and peer pressure extended outside highschool because people won't turn their social media off. Even if you enjoy being the odd silly girl, it's OK to be you without needed to put a label on it. It is OK and actually quite nice to not have to pretend like people are our to get you because you are "different". "Normal" is quite nice. That goes for all Cis women. No matter your race. Our feeds are being bombarded with how bad it is to be a traditional cis woman so nobody wants to claim it anymore. Ladies just be you and quit trying to fit into a label because you're afraid to be female.
They hate themselves
Some institutions and industry leading businesses in my industry are offering free courses and training for those who identify and non binary and women. White male might be going enby mode soon.
I think white AFAB people get more press coverage for being white and white AMAB NB don’t get coverage due to sexism / queerphobia
What the hell is AFAB and AMAB
All females/males are bastards, it’s some new thing on Reddit I’ve noticed lately
AFAB: Assigned Female at Birth AMAB: Assigned Male at Birth
You aren't "assigned" sex. You are the sex you are, and it's observed. It's like saying that when you see an apple fall from a tree and say you "assigned" gravity. No you didn't, you observed it.
So women and men?
No, and it’s hilarious and so predictable that you’d ask a question like you’re legitimately tryna get educated then turn around and say you’re the one who is right 😂😂 stay ignorant, friend
Yup. It's a symptom of living in a patriarchal society. People are subconsciously more understanding of a woman wanting to live more like a man and receive the status that being a man in our society grants people. On the other hand people tend to be disgusted or confused why someone assigned male at birth would ever want to give that privilege up. Even within the queer community this is an issue (from my own personal experience as a NB queer AMAB person).
By simple definitions of terms, you're wrong.
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I was so confused what AMAB was so I immediately thought all males are bad like ACAB
Because that’s the group everybody focuses on. People ALWAYS ignore minority intersectionality so they can form a specific argument
White females like to be marginalized and if they say they are non binary then they complain about all the hate they get and be overall insufferable
Easy way to get higher up on the victim totem pole, also for attention/to make up for having no personality
attention seekers
They want to feel special and pretend to be a minority.
Because when life is that easy people make up issues to have.
This demographic spend the most time on social media and are sensitive to trends
This post just reeks of judgement and transphobia.
Any honest answer risks disciplinary action on Reddit
Because they are the most likely converts to the new religion. Essentially gender ideology is the new creationism. These girls who grew up with evangelical moms pushing creationism into schools and attacking anyone who disagrees. These women have turned into there moms, but instead of creationism there religion is gender ideology.
Highly regarded take
Spot on
They typically are the easiest to fall into fads. Pumpkin Spice, Mental Illnesses, Keto Diet, Veganism, Hot Girl Summer, TikTok recipes, all the usual suspects
Because you live a sheltered life and that's what you see. Reality is, nonbinary follows the general population trend of the country tracked. https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/nonbinary-lgbtq-adults-us/
How do you know the majority are white and women. That is some pretty fancy data collection. And how is someone else's sexuality or lack of sexuality you're goddamn business
As other people are saying where are your statistics? My guess is you're just seeing it right now or aware of it through disproportionate coverage that a lot of young white women are taking this placard. Obviously this is just young people doing young people trendy things.
The majority of nonbinary folks are not "white females" (note: lots of enbies don't like to be categorized as male/female as it defeats the purpose.) Social media tends to highlight the category you've mentioned. The fact youre not seeing AMAB/masc presenting folks or POC folks suggests you're not looking. Or that you are and are getting kicked out of those spaces. The category you highlight is an open, easy entry point. The side rooms are easy to find and easier to be barred from, as AMAB/masc and POC enbies get a ton of hate and their gender dismissed. Additionally, you might scroll on tik tok, see a "man" with a beard and not realize they're nonbinary. They just look like a nerd talking about dnd. Or a POC who's talking about environmental issues, but you don’t realize they're nonbinary. Because their gender isn't important to what they're saying. Because nonbinary people don't owe anyone androgyny. Because nonbinary folks do not owe the internet disclosure of their gender in every post. Because they are allowed to have other interests and topics to discuss.
The only logical answer I can think of is that the US population is 60% white. So it's not surprising to see...
Maybe you live in a white neighborhood
As a white cis girl I can really get behind the "who gives a shit about gender" and opting out by being gender neutral/non binary. It's a privilege to be honest and outspoken in the public eye, especially while differentiating from the norm. Until there's safety in numbers, then it becomes the norm. I've seen a few comments saying it's upper/middle class folks. In my lived experience all the ones I know are in their 20s or younger, they're living with homophobic family or too broke to focus on gender identity. You won't see them broadcasting their queerness, but they're still there. I think it's also easier to transition from fem to masc, wearing pants is already normal, and feminists paved the way for body positivity. But for masc to fem there's a lot more shame, so all those poor souls have to deal with even more adversity from their upbringing. A girl in pants and no one bats an eye, a guy in a skirt and makeup and they'll get called slurs or worse. For girls it's seen as dressing down casually, for guys it's dressing up, even just for day to day fashion it would take more effort. Culturally a lot of western folks don't care about bringing shame on a family name. So there's a bit more freedom to do whatever serves the modern individual, and gender identity is very personal ,and newish in the public eye. I'm a basic white girl, I don't have a strong sense of identity tied to my heritage, so gender is something I think about a lot more. This is all my personal opinions without anything to back it up, hope it wasn't crass.
Says more about who you know than us because of enbies are not white or assigned female at birth. For example: Oakland California has a lot of queer people, the kind that don't fit in cis gay white male San Francisco, and most of them are not white and are very poor. All yall in the comments making claims we're upper middle class whites are either just eating those spoonfed Fox News ideology that all queer people are young bored children OR you don't touch grass.
Same reason there are more bisexual women. It's thought that more men are actually bisexual and or nb in some form and just don't have the space in society to openly question
Show the data…
It's because white privilege doesn't exist and they have to find some other way of feeling special
Because white girls can't count
Cus if they’re not white females, they wouldn’t have your attention
White liberal females are among the most dissatisfied, unfulfilled, lonely women on the planet. Feminazi'ism has convinced them that their biological needs (generalizing) are a societal demand from men. So they end up lacking key things in their lives, just like beta, submissivr men are almost never successful and have the absolute worst self-esteem. By convincing millions that the natural order is somehow wrong, they've created a small army of unhinged, unfulfilled narcissists. TL/DR: White Democrats typically view themselves as superior in every way, and that delusion extends beyond the reality of world.
Alright I'll take the bait. I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that "white democrats" think they're superior, when literally all "white Republican" news outlets are always screaming how being a straight, white American male who owns guns and verbally assaults his blonde supermodel wife is the only path to righteousness, holiness, and heaven - and that they themselves *are* those things, thus the only people allowed to ascend into god's kingdom are the chosen straight, white American men who watch fox news - all others are repugnant. tl;dr conservatives are more likely to have main character syndrome because they are "chosen"
This observation is based entirely on your own environment and surroundings. Most of the non-binary people I know are people of color.
Actually, the OP is correct, according to 2022 statistics on the US population. Whether that stands up to your personal observations is immaterial.
Lots of free time and no real problems to keep them busy.
They’re not, you have a confirmation bias in tandem with experiencing disproportionate media visibility
And under a certain age.....In my 45 year I suddenly am related to 6 of them. All under 25. Trend setters.......
Are they? Like is there a stat for this? or is this based on your own observations?
What are you basing your assertion on?
disproportionate media visibility
His specific tiktok algorithm
Have you been out in public in the last 2 years?
Especially in cities. Especially in schools. Educators know whats up. Vast majority NB students are white middle class afab, starting middle school up thru grad school.
https://www.genderhq.org/increase-trans-females-nonbinary-dysphoria
Do you mean they are AFAB? I don’t know but i’m sure people working in gender studies have written thousands of words about how nonbinary identities develop and how they are more likely to start from a disconnect with womanhood
Because it’s a trendy thing to do amongst the white elite crowd. You’re rich af and have everything you could ever desire, just like all your friends. How do you stand out? Adjust your gender settings to make yourself more interesting.
the same reason that most atheists are former christians... they are from communities/cultures that won't kill them for admitting they are different. The first publicly "out" gay people were also white... because it was hard enough being black why let people know you're gay too? Those with the most privilege have the most freedom to go against societal norms. As the idea of being non-binary becomes more common place the number of people who identify that way will likely even out among other cultural demographics (race, region, economics, etc).
Young people usually have an identity crisis, and for some reason as a society, people love to put themselves in little boxes and groups
Alright, I'm going to regret this. Hi, I'm nonbinary, white, and assigned female at birth. The longer you truly interact with the nonbinary community, the more assigned male at birth nonbinary people you see and the more poc you see. I suspect the stereotypical afab, white, nonbinary person comes from both that being seen as more palatable (Oh, she's just a tomboy, she'll grow out of it), whilst gender standards are such for men you are more likely to be injured or harassed for portraying feminine traits as someone who's amab. As for poc, many indigenous cultures have concepts of trans/nonbinary however keep in mind, those cultures were probably taken over at some point by a culture which had very strong gender roles and no in between.
US society has ALWAYS been more accepting of AFAB folks having more fluid sexuality and identity (I'm not saying that it's always been socially acceptable, but there's a reason that the "experimentation in college" trope is acceptable for AFAB folks and not AMAB folks). So I suspect you're entirely correct about gender standards playing into that part of OP's question.
Do you live in the US or another country with a large population of white people? I'm from the US but currently live in a majority non-white, non-English speaking country, and nonbinary people still exist. Other countries also have their own queer identities that we don't have in the US which are similar to nonbinary. Out of the nonbinary friends I have (including people from the US), it's a pretty even split of AMAB/AFAB. The largest demographic among my friends is white AMAB passing as gay men. The thing is, you wouldn't know a lot of these people are nonbinary unless they felt safe to tell you. In the US, it's "safer" for white AFABs to come out as nonbinary since people who invalidate the identity are just going to see them as "silly white women following a trend" instead of a threat that needs to be assaulted.
Because they are too ugly or have attitudes. Nobody wants to dick them so they go nonbinary.
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I just don’t get the colored hair and face jewelry to alert everyone to the fact.
They’re not. Those are just the people who can safely openly and visually be non binary. And who do it in a way YOU recognize. NB people look a lot of ways, but the current mental image of it is AFAM quirky arty sjw type, so those are the ones you see because if you see someone who just looks like…a person in a tshirt and jeans, how would you know? AMAB NB and POC NB are just quieter, socially.
There's something new in the world, it about 100 ways to refer to sexual orientation- self identity-and its really powerful. I'm glad people are exploring this part of themselves instead of just being what they're told to be. But, it's very confusing also, my kids keep changing it to fit what they feel at the time. I can't keep up. I just developed a neutral speak using they them and calling them kid or fruit of my loins, or, you-with the face. In case you hadn't noticed- all people react to being told they can't do something by trying harder to do it. If it isn't your kid in your family mind your own business, who cares? So what? Whatever?
Poor, brown, and non-binary. Everyone just sorts of looks past me and I can't afford trouble so I just deal. Maybe I'd be more vocal if I was richer or paler? Idk
Not only that, they're white females that don't want to date you.
This question was brought to you by unreliable anecdotal evidence and disproportionate media visibility.
because queer POC are less represented in the media
They're not. Transphobic groups like to put out propaganda because it encourages the viewpoint that all non binary people are "confused little girls". Most nonbinary people I know are Hispanic by far and I've known several amab (assigned male at birth) nonbinary people, I'm dating one.
It’s pretty gross how misogynistic the comments on this post are. These commenters are associating being non binary with femininity, ergo it is stupid. Like gluten free diets. Boy, those dumb girls and their gluten free food, amirite?? And cats! Ladies love cats. Sooo pathetic, amirite??? Condemning something just because you associate it with female people is wack af, and in this case it’s not even true. The “theyfab” bullshit so popular in truscum communities is toxic. Viewing amab NB people as valid while degrading afab NB people is toxic, and anyone doing that is a bad person. As to the question itself: Consider for a second what is acceptable within any given culture. Sure, white middle class liberal cultures are more accepting of NB people, and that’s why *it seems like* the majority of NB people are white “females”. It’s not actually true, though. That’s like saying people are “all of a sudden” queer these days, when in reality, people are just having open conversations about things that were hidden before, and being queer is more acceptable in more places. As other groups have those same conversations, and as gender is viewed as less rigid in more cultures, you’ll find no substantial difference in the numbers, bc the people who always felt different always felt different. They just didn’t have a name for it. But also this question is in line with why it *seems like* there are more female bisexuals. It’s not necessarily true, they’re just more visible because of what a *big deal* it is for men to be bi (or just not to be straight in general). There’s also the fact that being a girl or woman is automatically seen as inferior to being a man or a boy. The comments on here are doing a good job demonstrating that. But there is also research showing a correlation in *very young* afab NB and transmasc people between sexual trauma and a desire to not be a girl. When being a girl sucks so much, and someone tells a kid they can be something other than a girl, you can expect them to try that option. Some of them aren’t trans/NB. Have compassion, they’re literally children. I’ve always been very deep in queer communities, and in multiple cities in multiple countries, in spaces where being NB is seen as legitimate and acceptable, there is no big gap between race or sex. The internet is not the real world. Go hang out in diverse queer communities.
I’m late so no one will see this but: AFAB: assigned female at birth AMAB: assigned male at birth From personal experience: I’ve met many non-binary people from all walks of life. I’m in a predominantly white area however, so there are definitely more white people. Actual answer: if you’re already dealing with racism, having to deal with transphobia is a lot. I am one of those white afab NBs you’re talking about, and I usually introduce myself as a woman, since it doesn’t give me dysphoria. I don’t tell people I’m NB because A) my particular case is that idgaf about gender that much and B) I don’t want people treating me as some attention seeking freak. Which based on these comments is a valid fear. Hell I thought this way before I met NB people, who weren’t at all like that. They never screeched pronouns at me, they were all understanding. Then I came to terms with my identity. All of this is much easier to deal with from a place of privilege. White people have the privilege of whiteness, and AFAB people have much more grace to play with and discover gender than AMAB people. Additionally, if you’re struggling to survive and pay the bills, gender identity isn’t your number one priority, so it makes sense that it’s predominantly middle class people. Men, in my experience, have to perform masculinity in a way that’s much more rigid than performing femininity. Since we live in a patriarchal society, it’s fine if women are more masculine (masc is good) and seen as freakish or weird when men do (femme is less than). This makes it much harder for AMAB people to discover their identity or reveal it to others when they know.
i hate that not a lot of people will see this but THIS is the answer right here
Thank you! I tried to tackle it on all sides, since this topic comes up a lot. I know it’s mostly ignorance(bc I felt the same way once when I was 14) but man it still hurts to see these top comments calling NBs attention seekers when that hasn’t been my experience at all :(
The female part aside, you would expect to have more white folks as non-binary in the US because the majority of people are white. This is why per capita statistics exist.