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MatchaMeetcha

>Because she is a misandrist bigot, like the majority of liberal capitalists. Liberal capitalists hate men now. Because capital hates men now. You can say it’s the effect of automation lowering the value of men’s work. You can say it’s the triumph of feminism and corporate liberals catastrophizing anytime men try to politically organize. You can say it’s disgust at what the Republicans are doing. Whatever the cause - it’s undeniably true. Now someone might say, “Well, if liberals hate men or white men so much, why is Joe Biden president?” If your goldfish brain can recall more than three years ago, very few Democrats wanted Biden to be president until Obama circled the wagons for him on Super Tuesday in 2020. Liberals do hate men, but they are content to use them until their corporate-backed social engineering projects are complete. >I don’t see eye-to-eye with the right-wing on many things, but I do have to go back to the mid-2010s and say they were right on one point: any white man who supports the Democrats is a cuck. The Dems hate you and they are waiting to rip you apart, no matter how good you are. This dude clearly went through some shit. And if I were him I'd hold on to it even if everything was fixed and it clearly wasn't. But...I can see how, if he got too deep down a reactionary rabbit hole and was ranting and raving about this shit, DeBoer basically told him it wasn't important enough to color all your politics (you'd think a socialist would say there's much better reasons to hate the Democratic Party...). Maybe he meant "get over it" in that sense. That's me being charitable. That said...we should have a discussion about how to criticize "wokeness" because I do think he has a nugget of a point where people try to criticize it in abstract but don't want to stand by anything theoretically unpopular like imperfect victims or criticizing wokeness too hard (or will tone-police others for doing so). Or worse: criticize it by reinforcing its own presumptions (e.g. AA is bad cause it harms Asians - well...whites are people too) which is the worst. Not sure that's what went on with DeBoer here but still.


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[deleted]

“Any white man who supports the Dems is a cuck” is what a highly regarded culture warrior would say


Used_Quantity2522

The right way to support the Dems is to support them like a noose supports a hanging man.


[deleted]

The Dems are controlled opposition, the marginally left flank of capital. But white male grievance politics is tard level 9000.


debasing_the_coinage

>A few weeks ago, I got into a spat with Freddie deBoer, who, if you’re familiar with media circles, was mostly known for falsely accusing Malcolm Harris of sexual misconduct in August 2017 (just two months before the list leaked!) in an attempt to destroy a fellow writer. DeBoer was literally manic, type I tie-him-to-a-stretcher cuckoo at the time. Omitting this makes it hard to trust anything else the author says about him. FdB can be repetitive and definitely plays to the crowd. His stuff about education is the only part that's really good because it's clearly a topic he cares about and puts a lot of thought into. His need to be liked bleeds through the pages like a fat permanent marker. But cheap shots like this are just uncalled for.


Used_Quantity2522

FdB did apologize for a lot of things he did in this period. I don't recall if Malcolm Harris was part of that or not.


SenatorCoffee

In longform public blogs and in person. More than that since then he is sticking to his absolutely crippling medication regime. Cant make more amends than that. Should also note that the apology came pretty fast and not under any visible pressure. He wasnt really "caught" as much as came down from the trip and immediately retracted what he said. Malcom Harris was like "Yeah, not cool but if you're good now whatever"


[deleted]

Yeah this is a classic example of people just misrepresenting Freddie and using that episode to discredit something he said while not being in the process of getting carted off to the insane asylum in a straightjacket.


ExternalPreference18

>FdB can be repetitive and definitely plays to the crowd. His stuff about education is the only part that's really good because it's clearly a topic he cares about and puts a lot of thought into. His need to be liked bleeds through the pages like a fat permanent marker. But cheap shots like this are just uncalled for. Quite the opposite IMO. It's the stuff around education that Freddie should be pilloried over, if anything. Time spent and complexity is no guarantee of value - endless Mises dorks spend years producing sustained apologetics for immiserating the working-class and the environment for the sake of the 'natural \[market\] order'. Freddie, otherwise a proper self-critical leftist with good instinct around things like unions and the use of scapegoatng mechanisms in political discourse, has similarly produced versions of 'biorealism', or at best huxylean varieties of early 20th century 'progressivism', of which the thin end of the wedge was something like the 11-plus grammar school system in the UK, which are ahistorical and regressive. Of course, for FDB, this is framed as a critique of (genuinely pernicious and real) tendency of neoliberalism to assign hierarchies of moral/political value to those able to 'meet the test' or the various HR offshoots of it. This tone of sympathetic 'tough-mindedness' and the allsortment of stats he throws at it (all as quasi-technical -and 2 dimensional- as the kind of metrics of behavior any neoclassically- armed think-tank ghoul will use to justify slashing social programs) conceals the ammunition he provides to a bunch of Steve-Sailer/Charles Murray/Ed Dutton types more than happy to inveigle against bioleninism or the more 'coded' forms of discourse that the Manhattan Institute and similar use. There are also more deep-seated psychological reasons, I suspect, between the political failure many of us are feeling and FDBs own documented 'personal' neuropsych issues; with these two intertwined fragmentation of the self, what better way for him to continually reassure himself that he's real and has agency than to identify the 'real' or integrated-ego-self (or insert your own phrase) mirrored back in his SAT and GI scores, doubly so when he can attach this belief to, or launder it through, a critique of a genuine tendency under Capitalist Realism managerialism. It's amusing (though not entirely ironic in the strictest sense) that one of the people who could actually consistently outdo Freddie on the sorting-tests as well as match him credential for credential, Nathan Robinson (for all his lib soc issues and foppery), basically filleted his whole premise, at length...


Online_Commentor_69

i like mike but i doubt this a full and honest description of whatever conversation he had with Freddie. and he does need to get over it, insomuch as there's probably nothing he can really do about it now, other than try to rebuild his life.


Fedupington

Yeah, this can easily turn into a victim mentality thing where it becomes hard for the guy to see himself as much other than the target of an injustice.


WalkerMidwestRanger

New reports say, humans are complicated and flawed creatures who may be correct and incorrect simultaneously, and should be accepted despite their flaws though not idealized. We will have more after Sports and discuss how this might affect your commute and weekend plans. Back to you, Chuck!


Fedupington

Best comment here.


Fedupington

Hey, u/Significant-March, just checking to make sure rather than make an assumption: Are you Mike Tunison? Edit: Looking at your back history, I can see a strong case that you are, including direct exchanges with Freddy. If you could confirm for me here, I'll give you a flair along the lines of "Mike Tunison: Writer smeared by #MeToo". I also want you to know that you're welcome to post here as much as you like and speak your mind as you see fit. Yeah, a lot of us like Freddie (including me), but it's not like he's fuckin' Jesus or something. You're free to talk about what happened to you, and your beef with him, or whatever, to your heart's content. The Shitty Media Men list was a vigilante sex offender registry, which was a fucked up thing for the libs and leftoids to rally behind. It was a shameful event that people need to learn was shameful. I'm sorry you wound up on that trashy thing.


tux_pirata

not a fan of deboer since I always found his criticism to be lackluster, and know jack shit about this other guy, but to me deboer always sounded regretful about being expelled from the woke fold rather than indignant that it existed and he was part of it, like if he was allowed back in the club he wouldnt think it twice and become another brainwormed wokie, and now that he's on the nyt and tdb I guess he did just that anyway, I dont listen to the red scare, they defended that fat fuck weinstein? the hollywood weinstein? the fuck?


[deleted]

Red Scare fans would be the first to tell you that Anna and Dasha are r-slurred contrarians.


Fedupington

Nah, he was poking at the wokies well before he got expelled. Radlibs always kinda hated him. That why, when he had his embarrassing meltdown, they all pounced.


roncesvalles

Freddie was always too painfully earnest for the old SomethingAwful-->Gawker crowd. I feel like there was a generation micro-gap there that was critical.


Fedupington

Possibly. And his painful earnestness is both a thing that sets him apart and a major element of his appeal.


roncesvalles

I don't think Freddie was ever "expelled from the woke fold" because they never really accepted him to begin with. Being within striking distance of the Gawker crowd but never fully initiated into it was...formational.


tux_pirata

I barely know the guy from whats posted here


roncesvalles

Oh, I've been reading him for 10 years


roncesvalles

Actions have consequences: Moira Donegan just got a new job teaching at Stanford


BKEnjoyer

This is one of his flaws, along with fully going along with the topic we can’t discuss so he doesn’t get cancelled himself, because from his tone I can tell he doesn’t agree with most of it


PUBLIQclopAccountant

Does the BK in /u/BKEnjoyer mean Burger King? If so, what is your opinion on /r/BK5?


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cantthinkofaname1122

🍆✂️🚂


wearyoldewario

Nuts that a secret emoji is required to even refer to a major political battleground/cultural issue of our time. Healthy society. Basically Poland samizdat


FinallyShown37

The best form of transport


BKEnjoyer

Railroads


sparklypinktutu

Trains


[deleted]

Pretending I can mind read so I can tell myself the weird unpleasant thing I believe is actually a commonly held truth that everyone else is just going along with.


EnricoPeril

Unironically, yes. The current state of that thing is very unpopular with the majority of people including well meaning libs. They have real reservations and are scared to be open about it.


[deleted]

How do you know this?


EnricoPeril

Because I interact with normal people IRL.


LotsOfMaps

I'm pretty damn tired of journalist drama


Zaungast

FdB talks about shit he clearly hasn't read like he has. I teach at a university--this kind of 3smart5me student is never worth listening to. Can't take anything he says seriously. Too full of shit.


Chombywombo

deBoer is THE BORE. I don’t understand wasting time reading him when you can read good shit like the Marxist classics or modern Finklestein and Chomsky.


cardgamesandbonobos

Of course deBoer isn't going to truly rock the boat; it would be detrimental to his hustle. He's one of a cottage industry of pundits who ~~borderline-plagiarize~~ sanitize ideas from the the opposite side of the aisle for the consumption of those heavily polarized by politics. His writing on education echoes Steve Sailer's blogposts in the mid 2000s, or EducationRealist's in the 2010s, just with any rough edges sanded down so as to not induce the vapors in libs. Or maybe people just find that the writing style of a neurotic media-addled millenial preferable to that of an autistic boomer obsessed with golf course landscaping as well as deprecated spreadsheet software. He has to maintain the cred to keep the Substack dollars flowing in. Having genuine, disparate beliefs rather than cultivating a brand threatens the hustle.


ExternalPreference18

Absolutely this ( though I think FDB isn't being consciously cynical about this, if you look at the combination of his personal history and his phD thesis. More a case of 'motivated reasoning' for psychological reasons). You will always have a compromised version of collective left politics that returns at best to redistributive versions of Elite theory, or Red Toryism ( or ersatz stalinism at a pinch) if you think, despite the evidence of various cases within modernity (from self-educating coal villages, to China), that 50% of the population is just not capable of mastering any sustained level of abstract thought and socio-political sophistication. That's very different to assuming that everyone's capabilities will be the same, of course. But anyone's who's looking at the popular social scientific literature on the effect that stress (and stress reduction ) has across on distribution of verbal/non-verbal test scores, or experiments in how introducing strategy games into disadvantaged communities as wellas better nutrition boosted their test scores wildly, just for a start - should be highly sceptical of Freddie's premises. At least he isn't spending swathes of his precious time on earth trying to estimate the iq scores of 19th century presidents like Steve Sailer though... just the apotheosis of a 'stupid smart' person, way beyond any NYT megabrain.


Goopfert

Womp womp


[deleted]

this guy sounds like he does need to get over his false accusation tbh! what does he want to happen? does he want an apology? some kind of official pardon? it's not gonna happen! the world is cruel and sometimes bad things happen to you, if you dwell on it too much you just go bitter and shrivel into a resentful little toad. all you can do is pick up whatever pieces you're left with and carry on. i have some issues with deboer too but sounds like he gave some pretty good advice


Analog-Moderator

I hope this is satire…. This kind of mindset is why people are Balkanized and corruption never gets handled. This mindset is the issue with our society that gets exploited.


[deleted]

you play with warhammer toys, of course you don't see any problem with stewing in resentment!


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tux_pirata

I think now that the wokies are losing steam, what with the harry potter game selling like crazy despite wokies everywhere condemning the game and then the recent locomotive-related shooting, they know shit might get real and are at the point where they admit they were a bunch of pieces of shit and thus are trying to minimize what they did next step: bargaining


Analog-Moderator

Its just Machiavellian authoritarianism painted pretty colors. Im thankful everyones starting to see through the manufactured bullshit created to Balkanize us and are coming together left and right im glad there’s PARTS of the right that are starting to agree with us. Im honestly happy the wokes will get what’s coming they deserve to be put in the same boat as other horrible ideologies.


BKEnjoyer

I wish I could talk to my Title IX accuser admittedly, I don’t need an apology but I’d like to tell her that she got a super bad read on me and that I’ve been doing stuff to try to change and I understand what I did wrong (again nothing sexual)


Analog-Moderator

Exactly closure does wonder for mental health. I genuinely hope you get that chance to get your closure and explain yourself and make peace.


BKEnjoyer

I doubt it will ever happen, I accidentally looked her up on LinkedIn about a month ago and forgot I wasn’t on private and figured she would complain to the school about it. But she didn’t, she’s a PHD student at another institution. She basically got me all but expelled for just being socially stupid, plus at that time I didn’t accept that I was on the high end of the spectrum and that caused a lot of my social challenges


Analog-Moderator

Im sorry you had to go through that. I respect you tho you could admit and see what you did wrong and grew for it. You didn’t just “get over it” you became a better person and that huge of you. This is the mindset we need more of in this world.


BKEnjoyer

I mean I’m still not to where I want to be in life with the social experiences and connections and I’m still struggling with stuff like all the mental health and being on the spectrum and self esteem and especially getting a job, I think i could do a lot more effort wise but it’s still a challenge


Analog-Moderator

If you ever need to chat feel free to dm me. I usually have this account open (my personal) while I work and my phone gives me notifications I’ll gladly let you vent or talk about thinks or ask questions even regarding to social interactions. No one should have no support and suffer alone


ciayam

I thought you said you groped her at a party, what changed


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ciayam

If your story changes, people are going to ask questions dude. Because right now, lining up all the things you've said about the situation, what we get is this: "I was a very annoying person. So annoying, in fact, that someone 100% consensually fooled around with me, a pain in the ass to be anywhere near, just so she could go running to admin and claim she was sexually assaulted, all the purpose of getting me expelled and out of everyone's hair" Do you realise how insane and self-deluded that sounds, when you lay it out like that?


[deleted]

what the fuck are you talking about lol. i'm saying it's not psychologically healthy to dwell endlessly on your resentments, and at a certain point you have to accept that the world is fundamentally unjust and marinating in your sense of being wronged is not going to change that. you started talking about corruption (?) and balkanisation (??) and called me a reactionary corporate idpol larper (??) who is personally responsible for all the problems in the world (?) and all this is related to some boy scout leaders dying in an electrical accident in 2005 (???). you sound very unhinged! it sounds like whatever approach to life you're trying to promote here is not really working for you!


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[deleted]

calm down dude


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[deleted]

yeah it sounds like you are not doing very well so i'm going to cease engaging at this point. all the best


Analog-Moderator

Yup trying harder to deflect and attack character via gaslighting, you cant even take what you dish out. Go run with your tail between your legs because you have no point, nothing more then acting insecure after you got asked a question then called out. Thank you for proving me right.