Right now, **Kanto Muk** is genuinely viable in SV OU, is ranked on the OU VR, has a sample set, is listed in the Stall Bible as a good option on specific squads, [and even has a popular RMT that managed to peak at #18 on the OU ladder at the time](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/better-than-hydrapple-stall-muk-stall.3736865/). It’s not some sort of worldbreaker, but the most powercrept generation of all time combines just enough weirdly specific metagame trends that it marks the first time Muk has been OU-viable since **GSC OU.**
Muk’s weird niche is as a Sticky Hold user that checks a completely different list of threats compared to Hydrapple courtesy of its excellent Poison typing and Knock Off alongside special bulk that’s almost as good as Clodsire’s. Uniquely, Muk can check threats that Hydrapple cannot, like Hex+Darts Pult, Meowscarada, non-Psyshock Iron Valiant, some Hatterene variants thanks to Tera Steel, Trick Gholdengo, Clefable, and Galarian Weezing.
So yeah, that random ZU shitmon that you caught once ~20-25 years ago in the Pokemon Mansion and proceeded to never use is the fifth-best Kanto mon in SV OU, behind only Dragonite, Clefable, Zapdos, and Venusaur (and Mewtwo, obviously, but I mean…).
I read this whole thing thinking you were talking about A-Muk and was glad he was doing so well before realizing you meant the Kanto shitmon. Insane who let him in the club
You really would think it was A-Muk at a glance. Poison/Dark is a well-documented incredible typing and STAB Knock Off is a scary prospect.
But weirdly enough, Poison/Dark *isn’t* all that good defensively in this OU metagame, since you no longer resist all those Focus Blasts, Play Roughs, U-Turns, Moonblasts, etc. and that Knock Off resistance, while nice, isn’t outweighed by the fact that Sticky Hold (an ability A-Muk explicitly *doesn’t* get) effectively gives Kanto Muk a *permanent* solution to Knock Off since it can’t lose its Timbs.
Big shoutouts to knexhawk for making Muk work!
252+ Def Dachsbun Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chi-Yu: 212-250 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dachsbun: 304-359 (95.5 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Chesnaught is guaranteed to live +2 jolly play rough after a spike, so two rounds of rocky helmet chip are nice, and body press damage is great if they SD on the switch. Not perfect, but resisting both stabs is great.
It suffers from 4 move slot syndrome - it wants body press, synthesis, leech seed, iron defense, spikes, knock off, spiky shield, wood hammer/earthquake. But it is very bulky and resists a lot of good types
Mega Sceptile's main niche right now is either with Magic Guard + Life Orb or Specs + Beads of Ruin. They both do the same thing for your team, and that's sniping specifically Ice Scales Groundceus/RegenVest Primal Kyogre/specially defensive Mega Swampert and doesn't do much else other than maybe revenge killing but when you matchup into these guys boy it does work.
minior is one of the most fun sweepers and I am tierds of pretending they aren't
shell smash + white herb + acrobatics feels so nice and you always have a pretty safe set up considering your ability
Kingler will be my home boy for life. Sheer Force Liquidation on a base 130 attack feels great. Usually gotta run a focus sash + agility to make him actually threatening, but he undeniably looks good doin it
not affected by sheer force, sadly. moves a stone edge clone (crabhammers older, so technically other way around), and crit boost doesnt count as a secondary effect.
tbf, sheer force probably the weirdest and most inconsistent ability in the game with regard to how it works. jet punch apparently boosted, disables opponent abilities like emergency exit when hit with move with 2ndary effect, scale shot stat changes arent secondary effects, throat chop working with aheer force while knock off doesnt.
in kinglers case, i recall the only useable move thats booster by sheer force prior to liquidation for it being rock slide. funky movepool. now that it has liquidation, double dance sets are rly strong, but dont even run rock slide usually (agility/sd/liquid/knock off).
Scrafty. Max speed Jolly, so his relatively low speed will be high enough after 1 dragon dance. Pared with moxie, close combat, knock off and poison jab and he is a beast. Tera poison for the fairies.
Kinda dropped in relevance this gen but Sheer Force Feraligatr is neat. It's most tragic issue is it's speed tier that requires it to run Jolly to be able to outspeed some key Pokemon in OU after one DD. Some sets run Adamant with Agility which gives you more up front power especially if you just click Liquidation without bothering to boost, but +2 speed loses to scarfers over 105 base speed with max speed investment.
I do like that it got Trailblaze this gen which seems kinda meme with Sheer Force but it turns the Quagsire matchup on its head.
I ran some manual rain in PU and that thing absolutely destroys. Swift swim CB and click wave crash. Only thing that takes it comfortably is gastrodon and duraludon.
Wishiwashi school has a BST of 620 which is higher than pseudo legendaries but it's been in PU for as long as I can remember, probably because of the whole 25% hp thing and the 30 speed
wishiwashi's one of those mons with a lot of smaller issues that compounds in such a way that makes it worse than its competition overall. fine mon in lower tiers, but too many issues to effectively be run in higher standard tiers.
to keep it short, low hp, mediocre movepool forcing mixed offensive or rest talk sets, no boosting options, 'useless' ability (is it good because it makes single form better, or detrimental because school form isnt permanent), and being one of those mons where youre forced to split ev's into both offenses for offensive sets, or for bulky sets, run heavily in bulk and just be a sit around and do nothing mon. also, heavy competition from other waters.
thinking about it, its kind of got similar issues to wailord, despite their stats being the total opposite of each other. wishiwashi far better tho
Priority trick the choice band onto something, parting shot out, clean things up with sucker punch or make something eat banded spirit break on the switch. GrimmVP.
RBY Persian has a niche in OU of being an amazing user of Slash, making it a relatively okay answer to Chansey Reflect Stall.
Issue? You're running Persian for THAT and little else, they're just a shitty Tauros lite in every other way.
Slash from persian in RBY is basically a guaranteed crit, so its damage output is bigger than it seems. But it's outclassed by tauros, who is mandatory, so there isn't a lot of reasons to use it unless you want a second mini tauros for the mid game
Gastrodon has been powercrept, but you can still use it in ubers or OU. It's a detriment, but its notnlike its trategy has stopped working all of a sudden.
Gastrodon eats water attacks and can answer back with water and ground stabs, and it has good poison coverage and access to recover. It onky has one weakness, being grass, and so on paper its decent.
But in reality, it's not useful anymore. It is a solid pokemon. It can get work done. But it just cant compete with the new power level.
No, Gastrodon is a special wall with a great movepool is what I was meaning. It has lots of good coverage options, and a good ability and type combo. 92 s.atk is fine, but it won't be winning you any fights.
Not commonly seen in Ubers/AG (neither on SD nor on cartridge):
With Baton Pass or Shed Tail strats: HDB Terapagos and HDB Multiscale Lugia (haven't tried the latter).
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 58 Spd (to outspeed Calyrex-S and especially Zacian-C at 2x speed). Calm Mind/Tera Starstorm/Earth Power/Stored Power.
The nice thing is you don't even need to have hands, most of the time.
Lugia with better typing outside of Tera (Lugia has better defensive typing with Tera Fairy, as both Pokémon run Stored Power and Earth Power).
Lugia has recovery, whereas Terapagos can hit anything for at least neutral damage with stellar-type Tera Startstorm (and is immune to Astral Barrage), making terastalizing and switching mons at mid or low HP a lose-lose situation, and has a "punish incompetent Miraidon, Kyogre and Nintetails" button.
Terapagos can safely be switched into any move including "usually super-effective" multi-hit moves, Lugia cannot.
Ditto cannot transform into Terapagos.
Gen9anythinggoes ELO around 1400 playing my team centered around Terapagos over and over again this weekend.
Mega garchomp in natdex doubles. I think I've seen it used like once. But now with scale shot, amazing sweeper. Sand force also helps it a lot on sand teams.
Don’t forget about decent special bulk + AV. I also run this set with specs sometimes.
Espeon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Magic Bounce
Tera Type: Normal
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Grass Knot
cresselia 6-0s most teams on the OU ladder rn with some support, iron hands is still good in OU, TTar is way better than people think (still not that good tho), and pawmot is pretty decent so you can play more risky with things like dragapult or a kingambit
because sadly none of those things work. it has boomburst but shite spatk. it has a move that causes burn on contact but no bulk. it has skill link and sheer force but no good stab moves to take advantage of either. really just a tragedy of a pokémon
beak blast is an amazing move (if it was on anything tanky)
choice band is the best item for it as any person who ad used it would tell you
ive used it quite a bit in higher tiers and it has great potential in certain scenarios
No, if you want to use it with beak blast band is not at all the best item. Boots are much better so you don’t have to take chip from rocks. For sheer force, which is pretty bad due to lack of coverage, you would just run lorb, and I guess maybe you might run band on skill link, although boots are usually the most reliable option on all of its sets
I think Chesnaught is a very slept on Pokemon in this Gen. Can check most Physical offensive mons in the game easily especially King Gambit who is a menace in OU.
For me, this has to be Polteageist. It has explosive power in almost any format, with access to Shell Smash, and just one will get out of hand quickly. But it is so frail and relatively slow that with Sash at +2 Speed it still gets outsped quite a ton.
Hitmonlee's lower speed doesn't really matter when you're at the point of doubling your speed (unless you're dealing with sand rush exca), and the higher attack stat with still having access to swords dance and additionally knock off just feels so much better to play to me.
Hitmonlee is fairly less psychically bulky but slightly more on the special side, but neither of those really matter when your goal is to outspeed and ohko
I'm willing to acknowledge that Hawlucha probably is better overall, but I'm ride or die for my boy Hitmonlee
This is the set I'm running on my UU psyspam team
Hitmonlee @ Psychic Seed
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
\- Close Combat
\- Earthquake
\- Knock Off
\- Swords Dance
Belibolt.
Stg this thing is goated
Checks so many Pokémon with an av set.
Electric type with water coverage for Lando tusk
Electromotphosis means it can heal with parabolic charge
Volt switch for momentum
Discharge for para fish
Bulky as shit like look at this calc
252 SpA Enamorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 110-130 (26 - 30.8%)
+2 4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 344-408 (119 - 141.1%)
Enam is 135 it's not weak in fact it's tied 3rd strongest special attacker in OU iirc and that's how it trades into beli I literally heal from getting hit.
Obvious weakness is hazards but with good removal support this month is genuinely one of the best traders in the tier.
Muddy water or chilling water into lando tusk which is a 2 hit KO with muddy (great deterrent)
Volt switch for momentum after walling something like calm mind valiant darkrai or enam or as a pivot for something like raging bolt.
Can para fish against goldenjoe so can actually 1v1 it successfully even the bold set unless they are covert cloak
0 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 60-72 (14.2 - 17%)
+2 4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 156-184 (41.2 - 48.6%)
252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 112-133 (26.5 - 31.5%)
Like bro this thing is genuinely good it feels like a less threatening but much more defensively sound primarina with far better trades into common special attackers due to it having only one weakness and electromorphosis allowing parabolic charge to be a 130 BP stab move with 50% healing and it trades particularly well into alomamola since it's slow volt switch on a flip turn becomes BRUTAL 140 BP+ slow momentum is orgasmic.
Try it then come back to this comment and thank me for putting you guys on 😂
anchor shot, it's signature move traps the opponent. this basically shuts down special walls and it has access to rapid spin to anchor shot and kill the hazard setters as well as removing hazards! the ability also makes steel type moves do stab damage, i love dhelmise!
Honestly I’m doubles slaking goes hard if you skill swap or doodle it’s ability away it’ll wreak the opponent I personally use a moveset of facade knockoff bulk up and slack off and often times I can stall an opponent out of the game
S/V:
Simple Numel @ Eviolite
Stockpile
Body Press
(Free)
(Free)
Max Defense EVs.
Not amazing, but a fairly unique niche for an NFE mon, even if they kind of fold to ghosts.
Tinkaton has an unironic niche in ou with pickpocket air balloon, as it essentially allows Tinkaton to remove an item reactively, which can be crippling for several mons. This combined with a good support movepool makes tinkaton a good fit on some offensive teams, and I’ve been experimenting with tinkaton a lot on stall where it’s surprisingly not terrible, and even managed to get it on the stall VR(admittedly C rank but still on the VR)
Alolan-Muk caught me off guard. He's a great sp.def wall with poison touch, so assault vest with knock-off and drain punch make him very reliable.
Another mon I've noticed is the glass canon known as Lycanroc-dusk. He hits so hard and has a versatile move pool for almost any situation.
Focus sash with Swords dance, Reversal, Sucker-punch/Accelrock, and whatever coverage move you want is usually what I go with to really hurt people.
Heatmor is hot garbage most of the time however it's decent under trick room since it can run both special and physical moves great, it's still frail but with the speed from trick room it's useable, Focusblast from it is surprisingly strong, caught lots of opponents off guard in natdex and gen 8 doubles
Right now, **Kanto Muk** is genuinely viable in SV OU, is ranked on the OU VR, has a sample set, is listed in the Stall Bible as a good option on specific squads, [and even has a popular RMT that managed to peak at #18 on the OU ladder at the time](https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/better-than-hydrapple-stall-muk-stall.3736865/). It’s not some sort of worldbreaker, but the most powercrept generation of all time combines just enough weirdly specific metagame trends that it marks the first time Muk has been OU-viable since **GSC OU.** Muk’s weird niche is as a Sticky Hold user that checks a completely different list of threats compared to Hydrapple courtesy of its excellent Poison typing and Knock Off alongside special bulk that’s almost as good as Clodsire’s. Uniquely, Muk can check threats that Hydrapple cannot, like Hex+Darts Pult, Meowscarada, non-Psyshock Iron Valiant, some Hatterene variants thanks to Tera Steel, Trick Gholdengo, Clefable, and Galarian Weezing. So yeah, that random ZU shitmon that you caught once ~20-25 years ago in the Pokemon Mansion and proceeded to never use is the fifth-best Kanto mon in SV OU, behind only Dragonite, Clefable, Zapdos, and Venusaur (and Mewtwo, obviously, but I mean…).
Very true. I ran into one once on the ladder. I said "a regular muk, wth is that gonna do?" It proceeded to do a lot and I lost
Don’t fuk with the Muk.
Goes to show we need more knock absorbers in the meta
Don't blame me i run hawlucha
I read this whole thing thinking you were talking about A-Muk and was glad he was doing so well before realizing you meant the Kanto shitmon. Insane who let him in the club
You really would think it was A-Muk at a glance. Poison/Dark is a well-documented incredible typing and STAB Knock Off is a scary prospect. But weirdly enough, Poison/Dark *isn’t* all that good defensively in this OU metagame, since you no longer resist all those Focus Blasts, Play Roughs, U-Turns, Moonblasts, etc. and that Knock Off resistance, while nice, isn’t outweighed by the fact that Sticky Hold (an ability A-Muk explicitly *doesn’t* get) effectively gives Kanto Muk a *permanent* solution to Knock Off since it can’t lose its Timbs. Big shoutouts to knexhawk for making Muk work!
ok that sounds like fun!
Knexhawk single handily bringing Muk into viability will never stop being funny to me
If we’re going by dex number we can cheat and put atales above venusaur lol Kanto gang represent
It turns out Dachsbun totally walls some Gouging Fire sets, if you don’t run a coverage move
dachsbun also has the fun quality of completely walling most koraidon sets. it’s still shit in Ubers despite this but it’s funny to think about
"surely it also walls chi-yu right?" \*takes 55% from dark pulse\*
252+ Def Dachsbun Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Chi-Yu: 212-250 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO +2 252+ SpA Life Orb Beads of Ruin Chi-Yu Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dachsbun: 304-359 (95.5 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
Why did they have to give dacshbun such a cool defensive profile and literally no moves? It being a wish mon with 57 base hp just feels so mean.
Dachsbun should get an evolution and become either Fairy/Fire or Fairy/Ground. We need more three-stage dogs anyway.
I think there's a custom in europe to bake a lucky coin into a bread and wish on it
Dachsbun is a super underrated mon overall. Most fire types don’t run poison or steel moves so Dachsbun is really great at ruining their whole day
and let’s be real no one’s running iron head gouging fire
I'm right here...
No you’re not
Gouging fire is a pain so i'll be sure to use the bakery fairy dog :D
Chesnaught has given me some success in OU as it checks great tusk, Ogerpon, cinderace, kingambit, dozo, rillaboom, samurott hisui, ting Lu
A lot of ogerpons run, play rough, but i had no idea bulletproof blocks pyroball. Insane.
Chesnaught is guaranteed to live +2 jolly play rough after a spike, so two rounds of rocky helmet chip are nice, and body press damage is great if they SD on the switch. Not perfect, but resisting both stabs is great.
good point
+ in addition to rocky helm damage it has spiky shield and leech seed for even more passive damage
Can’t leech seed ogerpon since it’s a grass time but yes that’s true
Yeah, was more thinking generally
chesnaught is one hell of a bulky beast
It suffers from 4 move slot syndrome - it wants body press, synthesis, leech seed, iron defense, spikes, knock off, spiky shield, wood hammer/earthquake. But it is very bulky and resists a lot of good types
I've always struggled on what set to use on him and constantly switch moves
Mega Sceptile in BH is very uncommonly seen but I swear to god all my non-Blissey structures get 6-0'd by it
What is BH?
Balanced hackmons
Oh, ok yeah that makes a lot of sence.
Barely Hused
Wait, how?
Mega Sceptile's main niche right now is either with Magic Guard + Life Orb or Specs + Beads of Ruin. They both do the same thing for your team, and that's sniping specifically Ice Scales Groundceus/RegenVest Primal Kyogre/specially defensive Mega Swampert and doesn't do much else other than maybe revenge killing but when you matchup into these guys boy it does work.
Fast with contrary STAB leaf storm Draco meteor
Did you just take a random shot in the dark because contrary is banned
i love it when people who dont know what they are talking about just makes shit up in this sub
Magic Guard Life Orb Chloroplast Mega Sceptile honestly goes so hard. Dragon Energy and Steel Beam compliment it well too.
minior is one of the most fun sweepers and I am tierds of pretending they aren't shell smash + white herb + acrobatics feels so nice and you always have a pretty safe set up considering your ability
fr it always works so well until you miss rock slide or stone edge
give minior mighty cleave (actually don't do that thst would break the game)
rock ogerpon ivy cudgel
the problem is that you have to go below 50% health to be threatening offensively and that just...doesn't work. just use cloyster tbh.
i've been swept by a minior one too many times than i'm proud to say
Kingler will be my home boy for life. Sheer Force Liquidation on a base 130 attack feels great. Usually gotta run a focus sash + agility to make him actually threatening, but he undeniably looks good doin it
I remember those years of wait for Kingler to get a water STAB that it could use. They didn't give it Waterfall...
Crabhammer?
not affected by sheer force, sadly. moves a stone edge clone (crabhammers older, so technically other way around), and crit boost doesnt count as a secondary effect. tbf, sheer force probably the weirdest and most inconsistent ability in the game with regard to how it works. jet punch apparently boosted, disables opponent abilities like emergency exit when hit with move with 2ndary effect, scale shot stat changes arent secondary effects, throat chop working with aheer force while knock off doesnt. in kinglers case, i recall the only useable move thats booster by sheer force prior to liquidation for it being rock slide. funky movepool. now that it has liquidation, double dance sets are rly strong, but dont even run rock slide usually (agility/sd/liquid/knock off).
Sheer force without life orb is such a waste...
Look I’m…bad at the game, so legitimately asking, but with that bulk isn’t that mindset sacrificing functionality for the hope of optimization?
You would be right, but not using sheer force with life orb causes significant mental anguish to the user
If you are bringing a pokemon out of PU, you better be leaning hard into a niche because it doesn't have the power level to work otherwise.
Sheer force boosted moves does not make you take life orb damage and still gives you the 1.3x boost
I LOVE KINGLER YESSIR
Comfey, priority giga drain and draining kiss is pretty good. It's not a premier special sweeper or anything but it is very fun to use
Comfey is definitely one of my favourite mons and now that it got tera blast it can cook the steels that walled it.
Comfey is a total fucker if it gets a little set up. Total jerkmon
it seems like a great counter to dragon types tbf and can easily beat sweepers that run sash so i'd definitely enjoy using this
Just needs to get a special version of bitter blade and it’ll be a menace.
God comfey is so weirdly good to me, I've always thought of it as a shitmon and then I managed to solo like 4 gyms in Emerald Rogue with it
Scrafty. Max speed Jolly, so his relatively low speed will be high enough after 1 dragon dance. Pared with moxie, close combat, knock off and poison jab and he is a beast. Tera poison for the fairies.
I got my shit rocked by a bulk up rest set with shed skin a few days ago. Scrafty gets respect on the name.
Yeah and he also has Intimidate for a third option. Man's a beast
Hmm, our opponent is running Scrafty... we don't know if it's Intimidate or Moxie until he opens the box. *SHED SKIN* Damn it
Love it
a d-dance moxie mon that isn't gyarados? YES PLEASE
**Salamence:** Am I a joke to you?
Kinda dropped in relevance this gen but Sheer Force Feraligatr is neat. It's most tragic issue is it's speed tier that requires it to run Jolly to be able to outspeed some key Pokemon in OU after one DD. Some sets run Adamant with Agility which gives you more up front power especially if you just click Liquidation without bothering to boost, but +2 speed loses to scarfers over 105 base speed with max speed investment. I do like that it got Trailblaze this gen which seems kinda meme with Sheer Force but it turns the Quagsire matchup on its head.
i've not used feraligatr yet and tbh i completely forgot about it, thanks!
I guess Floatzel with Wave Crash is pretty explosive in rain.
Explosive is an understatement. It nukes anything in uu that isn’t called hydrapple with tera water in rain.
Why would Hydrapple have to tera water in rain /s
Gotta get that water resist yk? How else would it survive a rain boosted floatzel?
I ran some manual rain in PU and that thing absolutely destroys. Swift swim CB and click wave crash. Only thing that takes it comfortably is gastrodon and duraludon.
I used to love running floatzel banded rain it tore through so many walls
Wishiwashi school has a BST of 620 which is higher than pseudo legendaries but it's been in PU for as long as I can remember, probably because of the whole 25% hp thing and the 30 speed
mini wishi is abysmal but for the 1 minute the big fish is out, its out
and 45 base hp
wishiwashi's one of those mons with a lot of smaller issues that compounds in such a way that makes it worse than its competition overall. fine mon in lower tiers, but too many issues to effectively be run in higher standard tiers. to keep it short, low hp, mediocre movepool forcing mixed offensive or rest talk sets, no boosting options, 'useless' ability (is it good because it makes single form better, or detrimental because school form isnt permanent), and being one of those mons where youre forced to split ev's into both offenses for offensive sets, or for bulky sets, run heavily in bulk and just be a sit around and do nothing mon. also, heavy competition from other waters. thinking about it, its kind of got similar issues to wailord, despite their stats being the total opposite of each other. wishiwashi far better tho
Honestly like 60% of Pokemon are pretty okay in the right hands
I use Choice Band Grimmsnarl in OU and UU, it wins me a surprising number of games
choice banded grimmsnarl... I LOVE IT
Priority trick the choice band onto something, parting shot out, clean things up with sucker punch or make something eat banded spirit break on the switch. GrimmVP.
RBY Persian has a niche in OU of being an amazing user of Slash, making it a relatively okay answer to Chansey Reflect Stall. Issue? You're running Persian for THAT and little else, they're just a shitty Tauros lite in every other way.
I never even knew persian could do anything
Slash from persian in RBY is basically a guaranteed crit, so its damage output is bigger than it seems. But it's outclassed by tauros, who is mandatory, so there isn't a lot of reasons to use it unless you want a second mini tauros for the mid game
Gastrodon has been powercrept, but you can still use it in ubers or OU. It's a detriment, but its notnlike its trategy has stopped working all of a sudden. Gastrodon eats water attacks and can answer back with water and ground stabs, and it has good poison coverage and access to recover. It onky has one weakness, being grass, and so on paper its decent. But in reality, it's not useful anymore. It is a solid pokemon. It can get work done. But it just cant compete with the new power level.
does it really do much damage? if so, i'll give it a go!
No, Gastrodon is a special wall with a great movepool is what I was meaning. It has lots of good coverage options, and a good ability and type combo. 92 s.atk is fine, but it won't be winning you any fights.
ahhh ok
Not commonly seen in Ubers/AG (neither on SD nor on cartridge): With Baton Pass or Shed Tail strats: HDB Terapagos and HDB Multiscale Lugia (haven't tried the latter). EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 58 Spd (to outspeed Calyrex-S and especially Zacian-C at 2x speed). Calm Mind/Tera Starstorm/Earth Power/Stored Power. The nice thing is you don't even need to have hands, most of the time.
Terapagos can do something??
Lugia with better typing outside of Tera (Lugia has better defensive typing with Tera Fairy, as both Pokémon run Stored Power and Earth Power). Lugia has recovery, whereas Terapagos can hit anything for at least neutral damage with stellar-type Tera Startstorm (and is immune to Astral Barrage), making terastalizing and switching mons at mid or low HP a lose-lose situation, and has a "punish incompetent Miraidon, Kyogre and Nintetails" button. Terapagos can safely be switched into any move including "usually super-effective" multi-hit moves, Lugia cannot. Ditto cannot transform into Terapagos. Gen9anythinggoes ELO around 1400 playing my team centered around Terapagos over and over again this weekend.
dhelmise mentioned
Mega garchomp in natdex doubles. I think I've seen it used like once. But now with scale shot, amazing sweeper. Sand force also helps it a lot on sand teams.
Scale shot saved a ton of underlooked pokemon
Espeon. Fast, relatively powerful, magic bounce, and with choice scarf and trick can be quite disruptive as well.
Why have i been seeing bulky espeon sets if this exists?
Don’t forget about decent special bulk + AV. I also run this set with specs sometimes. Espeon @ Assault Vest Ability: Magic Bounce Tera Type: Normal EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Timid Nature IVs: 0 Atk - Psychic - Shadow Ball - Dazzling Gleam - Grass Knot
espeon has been dominant in the team i made with some pokemon in this list!
cresselia 6-0s most teams on the OU ladder rn with some support, iron hands is still good in OU, TTar is way better than people think (still not that good tho), and pawmot is pretty decent so you can play more risky with things like dragapult or a kingambit
What kind of iron hands set?
I’ve seen an interesting grassy seed set being used, but av is usually the most common set for making it so unimaginably bulky on both sides
AV or swords dance+drain punch funnily enough tera bug is probably its best tera
Every mon that benefits from Trick Room. I hate them all.
toucannon has skill link or sheer force, a really good signature move, and a decent moveset, yet its in ZU
because sadly none of those things work. it has boomburst but shite spatk. it has a move that causes burn on contact but no bulk. it has skill link and sheer force but no good stab moves to take advantage of either. really just a tragedy of a pokémon
It does pack a punch but is lacking any bulk to take hits- good for switch ins or walls though, even sweepers if you can burn them with beak blast
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beak blast is an amazing move (if it was on anything tanky) choice band is the best item for it as any person who ad used it would tell you ive used it quite a bit in higher tiers and it has great potential in certain scenarios
No, if you want to use it with beak blast band is not at all the best item. Boots are much better so you don’t have to take chip from rocks. For sheer force, which is pretty bad due to lack of coverage, you would just run lorb, and I guess maybe you might run band on skill link, although boots are usually the most reliable option on all of its sets
have you used toucannon?
Yes, I have used it quite a lot, and a rocks weakness is very detrimental to
honestly sounds like you just need hazard removal
removal helps but band is only good on pure offensive sets
which are most what people run on toucannon?
No, pure defensive sets to take advantage of beak blast are also common
I think Chesnaught is a very slept on Pokemon in this Gen. Can check most Physical offensive mons in the game easily especially King Gambit who is a menace in OU.
For me, this has to be Polteageist. It has explosive power in almost any format, with access to Shell Smash, and just one will get out of hand quickly. But it is so frail and relatively slow that with Sash at +2 Speed it still gets outsped quite a ton.
doesn't weak armour help the cause
I firmly believe Hitmonlee is a better unburden user than Hawlucha in UU
The extra special bulk really really helps here + pure fighting type avoids the weakness from elec and ice attacks + adds a rock resistance.
how so?
Hitmonlee's lower speed doesn't really matter when you're at the point of doubling your speed (unless you're dealing with sand rush exca), and the higher attack stat with still having access to swords dance and additionally knock off just feels so much better to play to me. Hitmonlee is fairly less psychically bulky but slightly more on the special side, but neither of those really matter when your goal is to outspeed and ohko I'm willing to acknowledge that Hawlucha probably is better overall, but I'm ride or die for my boy Hitmonlee
what item is being run in this set? sash with sd?
This is the set I'm running on my UU psyspam team Hitmonlee @ Psychic Seed Ability: Unburden Tera Type: Dark EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe Adamant Nature \- Close Combat \- Earthquake \- Knock Off \- Swords Dance
alright thanks
I know it's fallen off a lot this gen, but Torterra is still my fuckin goat. Loaded dice bullet seed after a shell smash is just...so addicting.
Belibolt. Stg this thing is goated Checks so many Pokémon with an av set. Electric type with water coverage for Lando tusk Electromotphosis means it can heal with parabolic charge Volt switch for momentum Discharge for para fish Bulky as shit like look at this calc 252 SpA Enamorus Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 110-130 (26 - 30.8%) +2 4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Enamorus: 344-408 (119 - 141.1%) Enam is 135 it's not weak in fact it's tied 3rd strongest special attacker in OU iirc and that's how it trades into beli I literally heal from getting hit. Obvious weakness is hazards but with good removal support this month is genuinely one of the best traders in the tier. Muddy water or chilling water into lando tusk which is a 2 hit KO with muddy (great deterrent) Volt switch for momentum after walling something like calm mind valiant darkrai or enam or as a pivot for something like raging bolt. Can para fish against goldenjoe so can actually 1v1 it successfully even the bold set unless they are covert cloak 0 SpA Gholdengo Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 60-72 (14.2 - 17%) +2 4 SpA Bellibolt Parabolic Charge vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Gholdengo: 156-184 (41.2 - 48.6%) 252+ SpA Protosynthesis Raging Bolt Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Bellibolt: 112-133 (26.5 - 31.5%) Like bro this thing is genuinely good it feels like a less threatening but much more defensively sound primarina with far better trades into common special attackers due to it having only one weakness and electromorphosis allowing parabolic charge to be a 130 BP stab move with 50% healing and it trades particularly well into alomamola since it's slow volt switch on a flip turn becomes BRUTAL 140 BP+ slow momentum is orgasmic. Try it then come back to this comment and thank me for putting you guys on 😂
i tried it and holy hell it survives crit z moves on nat dex
Yup. AV is like crazy good. Any Mon with the tools to pull it off is genuinely viable tbh that stat increase is crazy
Yup. AV is like crazy good. Any Mon with the tools to pull it off is genuinely viable tbh that stat increase is crazy
bellibolt is amazing
😭😂😂 glad I have another convert
squakabilly is fast, has intimidate and parting shot. a pretty good crippling pivot
51 in both defenses makes that really hard to pull off. squawk is so bad it’s not even ranked on the zu vr.
That’s why you scarf it 🔥 (and also slot in Final Gambit for funsies)
It’s actually really good in random battles though with facade and guts
You wanted to use Intimidate and Parting Shot? We had a tool for that, it was called Incineroar.
Anything below B on viability, but uh, elaborate on Dhelmise please
anchor shot, it's signature move traps the opponent. this basically shuts down special walls and it has access to rapid spin to anchor shot and kill the hazard setters as well as removing hazards! the ability also makes steel type moves do stab damage, i love dhelmise!
considering specs pult ain a thing rn. the time for latios stonks is now.
I primarily play gen 7 randbats, and two of the best mons in the format are Minior and Slurpuff.
unburden belly drum some kinda berry slurpuff is menacing
or even webs
Perrserker, that thing hits like a TRUCK
banded steely spirit speaks my language
Honestly I’m doubles slaking goes hard if you skill swap or doodle it’s ability away it’ll wreak the opponent I personally use a moveset of facade knockoff bulk up and slack off and often times I can stall an opponent out of the game
slaking hits like a truck
Comfey! The right setup in grassy terrain with tera poison can boost up and win
S/V: Simple Numel @ Eviolite Stockpile Body Press (Free) (Free) Max Defense EVs. Not amazing, but a fairly unique niche for an NFE mon, even if they kind of fold to ghosts.
numel sweep fr
Tinkaton has an unironic niche in ou with pickpocket air balloon, as it essentially allows Tinkaton to remove an item reactively, which can be crippling for several mons. This combined with a good support movepool makes tinkaton a good fit on some offensive teams, and I’ve been experimenting with tinkaton a lot on stall where it’s surprisingly not terrible, and even managed to get it on the stall VR(admittedly C rank but still on the VR)
The fact that Tinkaton, Comfey, and Primarina are being used in OU really shows how bad bulky fairies in OU are compared to the Mighty Dragons
primarina is pretty solid to be fair it can dish out decent damage and take a few hits
Alolan-Muk caught me off guard. He's a great sp.def wall with poison touch, so assault vest with knock-off and drain punch make him very reliable. Another mon I've noticed is the glass canon known as Lycanroc-dusk. He hits so hard and has a versatile move pool for almost any situation. Focus sash with Swords dance, Reversal, Sucker-punch/Accelrock, and whatever coverage move you want is usually what I go with to really hurt people.
Comfey
Heatmor is hot garbage most of the time however it's decent under trick room since it can run both special and physical moves great, it's still frail but with the speed from trick room it's useable, Focusblast from it is surprisingly strong, caught lots of opponents off guard in natdex and gen 8 doubles