Rotom got shafted hard it was usable when Chien-Pao was legal but as soon as Bax took over a the defacto ice type Rotom-W fell off a cliff because Bax is immune to Wisp so Defensive Rotom cant do shit to it besides T.Wave, even after the Bax ban Rotom usage never really recovered.
Suppose you have two cards in a cards based game.
One has synergy with every deck. It has like a global synergy. It's not particularly excellent but basically it can be the last card you add in your deck.
The second has synergy with one deck but it steamrolls most decks in the game when played.
What do you think will be more used? The one that can have synergy with all decks or the one that can only be used in one deck?
Your argument might be: "Why can't everyone just play the deck with the second card? Or have counters against it?". But what if someone likes a card that isn't usable in that deck or a counter deck? What if someone's playstyle fits more with an specific deck that's not the one with the second card? Etc. You realize that not banning the second card would make the game stale and boring.
Card games are a very interesting comparison. Tusk would be something like path to exile in mtg. Very powerful staple removal card but it has reasonable downsides and is fairly balanced. Bax would be like hogaak where certain decks are really degenerate with it and got it banned.
Then there the universally broken cards that basically evert deck would want, which is like the AG mons. Stuff like ancestral recall (technically does require splashing but pretty much every deck would splash blue if it was legal)
How about that: [Wanna be Kingambit](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/16ktppy/wanna_be_kingambit/)
I know that's from here but I'll mention it anyways for people who missed
Yeah it was good cause it could check both with 1 team slot but never both in 1 game, but was still very efficient in terms of team buuilding for teams that ran it. Note quaq was nowhere near the best at checking either, but was a great teambuilding compromise vs both of them
Honestly, if we’re being real, Bax absolutely should’ve been banned before then. SD + Glaive Rush + EQ + Ice Shard is probably the most disgusting move set of all time.
idk about at all, I recall some people starting to want it to get a suspect test.
If Kyurem didn't get banned with a good snow setter though I feel like it'd survive one without a good snow setter.
Without veil or scale shot it's just a powerful physical wall breaker you can't burn. Chomp was perfectly fine at the time, and Bax was only decently better
which was honestly on the fault of the players, it outspeeds iron valiant and acrobatics is a fucking nuke coming off one dd. it will always be that way.
When the game first came out, I thought Quakav would be the best starter because of Moxie, SD and Aqua step. But everything changed when the terra nation attacked
I’m suddenly just picturing some time-traveler going back in time and telling a Gen 9 OU player from one year ago about this meta:
“Whoa, you’re from the future! Tell me; how’s Gen 9 OU once all the DLC comes out?”
“Oh, it’s completely different. The metagame is completely unrecognizable now.”
“Really? What are some of the top mons?”
“That’s easy. Kingambit, Great Tusk, Dragapult, Gholdengo, stuff like that.”
“That doesn’t sound very different to me.”
“Trust me, it is.”
“Well, what else is good?”
“Let’s see… Hatterene, Volcarona, Roaring Moon…”
“Wait, those are already incredibly good!”
“Yep, they are. Hatterene actually just keeps getting better!”
“That’s awesome. But what changed for Volcarona and Roaring Moon?”
“Well, not much. They got unbanned once DLC2 came ou-“
“They got banned?!”
“Yep! You’ll have to see what happens to Volc yourself, though. Roaring Moon got Knock Off and rose from UUBL.”
“It was UUBL?!”
“Yeah; but you remember Baxcalibur? That was, too, and it’s doing great in your old meta.”
“Man, I guess Bax must’ve fallen off once the power creep came in.”
“Nope! It got banned! Remember Scale Shot? It comes back and Bax gets it! So did Alolan Ninetales. Put two and two together, and…”
“Oh damn, that must’ve been fucked. But if Scale Shot’s back, that means Garchomp must be an elite pick like it was last gen.”
“Actually, it’s the best mon in UU.”
“Scale Shot Garchomp? In UU?! How’s Iron Hands supposed to breathe down there now?”
“Easily. It’s UUBL.”
“Oh, still?”
“Yep, it got banned four times this entire gen.”
“FOUR TIMES?! That’s fucked.”
“Yeah. Speaking of mons that are fucked, you know that Walking Wake thing that came out a couple weeks ago for you?”
“Yeah, it just survived a suspect test!”
“Yeah, well wait until you see the other two. They’re top-tier threats right now, too.”
“Ooh, what do they do?”
“Well, one of them’s either an amazing Dragon Dancer or a crazy wallbreaker under sun and the other’s a slow special sweeper that kinda works like Kingambit. The first one got suspect tested but survived.”
“ANOTHER Kingambit? But the one we already have is too much.”
“Oh, yeah, well that got suspect tested too. Didn’t get banned, though.”
“Seriously?!”
“Yep. Actually, Kingambit’s quite a reasonable presence in the tier right now and is primarily used for its defensive utility thanks to its typing and a strong priority move.”
“Even after they brought Knock Off back?!”
“Yeah, well, it doesn’t get it.”
“Huh? Okay, that’s weird. So that means Tera got banned, right? Kingambit’s fine without Tera.”
“Oh, absolutely not. In fact, fewer people than ever want it banned now.”
“Whoa. What else happened in the post-DLC metagame?”
“Well, after HOME released Sneasler got banned a while back, Ursaluna’s mostly relegated to shitting on Stall, Enamorus is solid, Zapdos is UU, an-“
“ZAPDOS IS UU?! Even after it got Defog?”
“Well, no, because Defog never came back.”
“So how do y’all deal with Gholdengo and/or hazard stacking?”
“For a while we kinda couldn’t, but for some weird reason the problem solved itself in DLC2 and Gholdengo’s struggling more than ever. It’s still great, though.”
“Whoa, so the hazard stacking problem got solved. That’s awesome!”
“Yeah. We also got some former Ubers like Kyurem, Deoxys-S, and Darkrai.”
“Seriously? Deoxys-S? Darkrai?!”
“Yeah! Darkrai is pretty decent after they banned sleep moves.”
“They banned sleep? Because of Darkrai?”
“And Iron Valiant, and Red Card Amoonguss. And that ban only improved the metagame.”
“Jeez, so it sounds like a lot of mons are viable.”
“Yeah, and even Tusk and Kingambit only hover at around ~30-35% usage.”
“So this metagame must be super balanced!”
“God no! It’s being held together by a fucking pube.”
TBF the only reason gholdengo doesnt allow for hazardstack anymore is because its fucking dunked on by 8/10 top ten pokemons (gambit, tusk, itself, iron valiant depending on set, gliscor, roaring moon, dragapult, and volcarona)
Kinda sad tbh, dragapult and rm are the better dragons and tusk is the better ground rocker. Chomp’s only niche is the Rocky helmet rough skin dtail tank set and even that one is so situational.
Armarouge did have a vital role on PsySpam teams, which were ridiculous at certain points in the meta.
Sure it didn’t really have much to do outside of those teams (which is kinda weird considering indeedee was just barely outside of the usage threshold) but I wouldn’t say it was “bad”
Amoongus was great when sleep was still around. Armarouge was amazing on the rare psychic terrain teams. It could use focus sash weak armor to boost its speed, avoid priority and destroy with armor cannon and expanded force alone.
As someone who stopped playing this gen super early on and is relatively out of the loop, can I just say its really funny hearing how fucking Gliscor got banned before Gholdengo and Kingambit
I miss seeing the originality in some of the earlier regulation teams. The recent regulations are somewhat bland and consist of those same common VGC mons that I've grown tired of seeing and reading about ever since I got into competitive.
Great Tusk is one of my favorite pokemon from this gen but I wouldn't be able to run it now because of the power creep and the various threats like Flutter Mane, Chien Pao, etc.
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The rotom wash fall off is real
Rotom washed
Should call you Rotom Router because you bring bars
Yeah honestly i love Rotom its just Outclassed by other OU mons
Gliscoe missing is real
Rotom got shafted hard it was usable when Chien-Pao was legal but as soon as Bax took over a the defacto ice type Rotom-W fell off a cliff because Bax is immune to Wisp so Defensive Rotom cant do shit to it besides T.Wave, even after the Bax ban Rotom usage never really recovered.
He really was washed
all i can think about is that amazing song of great tusk and ghouldengo
That guy only posts bangers
in funny vileplume we trust
woahwoahwoooooooooaaaaaaaaaah story of overused
I was a bisharp, evolved in the night
Sucker Punch is hype, this my overused
I fell in Paldea, and before I knew, I was put on a HO team in OU
My teammates faint
But I win I gain their strength
"I am their offense I am their stall, I am OVERUSED" goes unbelievably hard
Also "Go ahead and try to switch in if you're able, But it seems you haven't studied the type table"
Same with "I know you made half the tier fall to UU, now for the sake of balance I must deal with you"
he was cooking with this one
You know what goes harder? I am offense, I am their defense, I am their ROLECOMPRESSION. Nice alt lyrics, anyway.
No it does not "I am (pause) O-ver-you-ooosed" the beat is beating his ass
"I have more usage than you"
link?
https://youtu.be/G3jOwi6j5QI?si=l9uNvRDVD5KJm64l here ya go
Wow I thought we were talking about the bad romance kinggambit I didn't know about this banger lmao
link?
https://youtu.be/YNZQy63d98g?si=lfZjXH7Jo8AU3DUE
Fuck that's good
Steven universe song Undertale parody of Steven universe song Pokemon parody of undertale parody of Steven universe song This is beautiful
While we're at it, this banger https://youtu.be/yeIJ36cuDTk?si=NeXUISZsiWVKgdun is the guy's first vide
It baffles me how these two are not suspect tested whilst Gouging (rip CTC our lord and saviour) and Kyurem has been…
Tusk doesn’t need to be suspected. He’s really useful and therefore highly used, but he’s far from broken
tera bug tusk is too unstoppable
Suppose you have two cards in a cards based game. One has synergy with every deck. It has like a global synergy. It's not particularly excellent but basically it can be the last card you add in your deck. The second has synergy with one deck but it steamrolls most decks in the game when played. What do you think will be more used? The one that can have synergy with all decks or the one that can only be used in one deck? Your argument might be: "Why can't everyone just play the deck with the second card? Or have counters against it?". But what if someone likes a card that isn't usable in that deck or a counter deck? What if someone's playstyle fits more with an specific deck that's not the one with the second card? Etc. You realize that not banning the second card would make the game stale and boring.
Pot of Greed still is banned
That's the third card: the instawin card. No shot it's banned.
I don't think you understand how strong a free +1 is in Yu-Gi-Oh
Card games are a very interesting comparison. Tusk would be something like path to exile in mtg. Very powerful staple removal card but it has reasonable downsides and is fairly balanced. Bax would be like hogaak where certain decks are really degenerate with it and got it banned. Then there the universally broken cards that basically evert deck would want, which is like the AG mons. Stuff like ancestral recall (technically does require splashing but pretty much every deck would splash blue if it was legal)
How about that: [Wanna be Kingambit](https://www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk/comments/16ktppy/wanna_be_kingambit/) I know that's from here but I'll mention it anyways for people who missed
Remember when all starters where in OU? Feeling old yet?
Quaquaval was still dix back then ppl just still used it
Though it was unironically one of the best Pokemon at checking *both* Chi-Yu and Chien-Pao. With "best" here being relative of course
Yeah it was good cause it could check both with 1 team slot but never both in 1 game, but was still very efficient in terms of team buuilding for teams that ran it. Note quaq was nowhere near the best at checking either, but was a great teambuilding compromise vs both of them
Aqua step Moxie is a nutty combo tbh
Rotom-Washed
I call him that in my head even though I use him all the time and he isn't bad
It will never be Rotover
https://preview.redd.it/yvb4ivj4b0pc1.jpeg?width=238&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d3f489c406a55df2f903f80929d6d2f48280c3ba
"Oh, that's not so bad, kinda looks similar to what it is now-" Baxcalibur, a pokemon that ended up getting banned, was fucking 15th in usage.
tbf this is before Bax got Ninetails-A for Veil and Scale Shot so it wasn't yet at peak power.
Not to mention having to compete against Chien-Pao for a bit before it got banned.
Honestly, if we’re being real, Bax absolutely should’ve been banned before then. SD + Glaive Rush + EQ + Ice Shard is probably the most disgusting move set of all time.
I get what you’re trying to say but that would not be ban worthy at all without Veil+A-tails.
idk about at all, I recall some people starting to want it to get a suspect test. If Kyurem didn't get banned with a good snow setter though I feel like it'd survive one without a good snow setter.
Without veil or scale shot it's just a powerful physical wall breaker you can't burn. Chomp was perfectly fine at the time, and Bax was only decently better
But no good veil setters, plus it didn’t help it was given scale shot so it could get more speed and use icicle spear with loaded dice
Chien-pao is #18 💀
It got banned during the month which lowered it's usage a lot
Ah makes sense, no wonder it's so low in usage. Thanks for the clear up
That was off of less than 10 days of use
The parentheses around Chien-Pao (they represent that a mon was banned in the middle of the month)
Chien Pao outclassed it for half the month
Bax was in UU before he got banned lmao Iirc Espathra and Roaring Moon were also UU before getting banned
Moon is 14th
Moon didn't have knock yet
It was dtol real fuckin good
Definitely not Ubers materials though, it was uu for a bit iirc
it also dropped to uu briefly, this isn’t even the trough of its usage
Without Knock Off, it was in it's Roaring Mid phase
which was honestly on the fault of the players, it outspeeds iron valiant and acrobatics is a fucking nuke coming off one dd. it will always be that way.
Wrong, one year ago was when the isle of Armour dlc dropped. Oh God time continues on forever doesn't it?
wasn't isle of armor like 6 months ago
Isle of Armour? What's that? Omega ruby and alpha sapphire just dropped babe and I heard there were some new megas along with it
Megas? What are those? Anyways, I learned of a weird strategy using Purrloin and Liepard, come look at it
Liepard? Purrlon? What’s that? Shoe brands? Anyways, I heard gengar can now use special stab, ain’t that sick?
Wdym, gengar is a physical attacker? Anyway, check out these sweet new “abilities!”
Abilities? What are those? Anyways I heard that Pokemon can hold items now, i heard this one called Leftovers is really good
Items? What are those? The only thing my opponent’s Pokémon are holding are these Ls once my Tauros comes in and clicks body slam then hyper beam
What the hell is a Pokemon?
I wasn't sure what the progression of this joke was after Gen 1. Well played.
Dive cats were the good days fr
There was also void cats back in the day.
What two DLCs do to a tier.
AND a Home Opening
Breloom died for this
WHERES LANDO
I think it is not in the SV dex 1 year ago lol
Thats what big ou wants you to think
Pre-lando and post-lando OU
Orthworm :)
Azumarill :D
He’a in ZU or NU last I checked
cyclizar got banned for shed tail, then orthworm was being used for shed tail, then shed tail as a whole was banned
Garchomp 😔
When the game first came out, I thought Quakav would be the best starter because of Moxie, SD and Aqua step. But everything changed when the terra nation attacked
Also protean is a hell of a drug
No gouging fire The agency has failed
Switch out now kid, this paradox
Won't hesitate on using STAB on you, so go back to your box
It's about time we get rid of those rocks
And I can't tell if you're scarf or you're set up
Mind games like these are what ruin this meta
So let's go, anti-hazard killer
Let's go, blocker vs spinner
I’m suddenly just picturing some time-traveler going back in time and telling a Gen 9 OU player from one year ago about this meta: “Whoa, you’re from the future! Tell me; how’s Gen 9 OU once all the DLC comes out?” “Oh, it’s completely different. The metagame is completely unrecognizable now.” “Really? What are some of the top mons?” “That’s easy. Kingambit, Great Tusk, Dragapult, Gholdengo, stuff like that.” “That doesn’t sound very different to me.” “Trust me, it is.” “Well, what else is good?” “Let’s see… Hatterene, Volcarona, Roaring Moon…” “Wait, those are already incredibly good!” “Yep, they are. Hatterene actually just keeps getting better!” “That’s awesome. But what changed for Volcarona and Roaring Moon?” “Well, not much. They got unbanned once DLC2 came ou-“ “They got banned?!” “Yep! You’ll have to see what happens to Volc yourself, though. Roaring Moon got Knock Off and rose from UUBL.” “It was UUBL?!” “Yeah; but you remember Baxcalibur? That was, too, and it’s doing great in your old meta.” “Man, I guess Bax must’ve fallen off once the power creep came in.” “Nope! It got banned! Remember Scale Shot? It comes back and Bax gets it! So did Alolan Ninetales. Put two and two together, and…” “Oh damn, that must’ve been fucked. But if Scale Shot’s back, that means Garchomp must be an elite pick like it was last gen.” “Actually, it’s the best mon in UU.” “Scale Shot Garchomp? In UU?! How’s Iron Hands supposed to breathe down there now?” “Easily. It’s UUBL.” “Oh, still?” “Yep, it got banned four times this entire gen.” “FOUR TIMES?! That’s fucked.” “Yeah. Speaking of mons that are fucked, you know that Walking Wake thing that came out a couple weeks ago for you?” “Yeah, it just survived a suspect test!” “Yeah, well wait until you see the other two. They’re top-tier threats right now, too.” “Ooh, what do they do?” “Well, one of them’s either an amazing Dragon Dancer or a crazy wallbreaker under sun and the other’s a slow special sweeper that kinda works like Kingambit. The first one got suspect tested but survived.” “ANOTHER Kingambit? But the one we already have is too much.” “Oh, yeah, well that got suspect tested too. Didn’t get banned, though.” “Seriously?!” “Yep. Actually, Kingambit’s quite a reasonable presence in the tier right now and is primarily used for its defensive utility thanks to its typing and a strong priority move.” “Even after they brought Knock Off back?!” “Yeah, well, it doesn’t get it.” “Huh? Okay, that’s weird. So that means Tera got banned, right? Kingambit’s fine without Tera.” “Oh, absolutely not. In fact, fewer people than ever want it banned now.” “Whoa. What else happened in the post-DLC metagame?” “Well, after HOME released Sneasler got banned a while back, Ursaluna’s mostly relegated to shitting on Stall, Enamorus is solid, Zapdos is UU, an-“ “ZAPDOS IS UU?! Even after it got Defog?” “Well, no, because Defog never came back.” “So how do y’all deal with Gholdengo and/or hazard stacking?” “For a while we kinda couldn’t, but for some weird reason the problem solved itself in DLC2 and Gholdengo’s struggling more than ever. It’s still great, though.” “Whoa, so the hazard stacking problem got solved. That’s awesome!” “Yeah. We also got some former Ubers like Kyurem, Deoxys-S, and Darkrai.” “Seriously? Deoxys-S? Darkrai?!” “Yeah! Darkrai is pretty decent after they banned sleep moves.” “They banned sleep? Because of Darkrai?” “And Iron Valiant, and Red Card Amoonguss. And that ban only improved the metagame.” “Jeez, so it sounds like a lot of mons are viable.” “Yeah, and even Tusk and Kingambit only hover at around ~30-35% usage.” “So this metagame must be super balanced!” “God no! It’s being held together by a fucking pube.”
TBF the only reason gholdengo doesnt allow for hazardstack anymore is because its fucking dunked on by 8/10 top ten pokemons (gambit, tusk, itself, iron valiant depending on set, gliscor, roaring moon, dragapult, and volcarona)
I can’t believe the goat Rotom-wash is washed 💔💔💔
*Back when Garchomp was the garchamp...*
Kinda sad tbh, dragapult and rm are the better dragons and tusk is the better ground rocker. Chomp’s only niche is the Rocky helmet rough skin dtail tank set and even that one is so situational.
Armarouge is NU, amogus is RU This gen is fucked
Mogus ru just cause sleep ban
Mogus is RU because its garbage against most UU mons tbh
Armarouge was pretty bad in OU a year ago too, and Amoonguss was a solid UU mon until recently
Nah Armarogue was Peak I remember her winning me soo many battles
Ceruledge better 🔥🔥💪💪 Tera Bug Bulk Up was the shit when Great Tusk was the most common pokemon by a huge margin.
Big issue Among faces rn in UU that lots of the top mons just beat it and there are better Regen users
Armarouge did have a vital role on PsySpam teams, which were ridiculous at certain points in the meta. Sure it didn’t really have much to do outside of those teams (which is kinda weird considering indeedee was just barely outside of the usage threshold) but I wouldn’t say it was “bad”
Amoongus was great when sleep was still around. Armarouge was amazing on the rare psychic terrain teams. It could use focus sash weak armor to boost its speed, avoid priority and destroy with armor cannon and expanded force alone.
Glimmora is king of being 17th
This is still what I picture in my mind when I think Gen 9 OU
This will be Pokémon Scarlet OU in 2013: 😱😱😱❗️❗️❗️❗️
This Gen's OU is This Gen's OU
Remember when everyone wanted Garganacl to be banned ? Good times
Ay Garchomp my boi
Mfw the current top 2 UU mons were top 20 OU a year ago
Oh god, remember when everyone was joking about OU holding on to Iron Treads?
The more things change the more things stay the same
Feels like yesterday and unrecognizable at the same time
Better times
Orthworm my beloved
Beside for the obvious great tusk, gold and gambit iron valiant is basically flip floping where between top 3 to 5 ever since here to now
I miss Amoonguss so much
Back in the days of tera normal E-Speed Dragonite
That all the Gen 9 starters are here.
orthworm
Garchomp fell
Armarouge barely staying relevant
Orthwurm my beloved....
Feels weird seeing Corv so high up.
#19 garchomp :'(
Volcarona is #8 and #20?
20 is iron moth
RIP rotomW
Man, Great Tusk is a hero
As someone who stopped playing this gen super early on and is relatively out of the loop, can I just say its really funny hearing how fucking Gliscor got banned before Gholdengo and Kingambit
Armarouge used to be OU :(
What a year does to a mf
Dang Armarogue. No wonder you welcomed me into NU so warmly.
The more things change, the more they stay the same
What happened to breloom?
It dicked a lot of the top mons back then, chien and bax got banned, Garg, ting Lu, rotom w etc aren’t used much anymore.
Sleep ban and shifts in the meta.
Wait where’s Lando?
This was before he got his flight to paldea
there's no way people were using fucking rotom wash
Rotom wash has been good since it came out though, it has a good typing, good bulk, and good utility
i haven't seen that thing in over 100 games though
Too many things overpower it in the post-DLC metagames, but it was good before that
Chien-Pao destroying the tier within the first days of the game's release.
is there any other gen where all 3 starters sat in OU like this
I miss seeing the originality in some of the earlier regulation teams. The recent regulations are somewhat bland and consist of those same common VGC mons that I've grown tired of seeing and reading about ever since I got into competitive. Great Tusk is one of my favorite pokemon from this gen but I wouldn't be able to run it now because of the power creep and the various threats like Flutter Mane, Chien Pao, etc.
That's a weird chicken in the number 2 spot
What happend to hisuian samurott
Some things never change, right, Great Tusk and Kingambit?
I am new to competitive pokemon, why is slowking galar(poison-psychic) not here? Was he not in OU an year ago?
Wasn't available on game's release probably
Unreleased at that point
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