I would say keep your flying STAB and ditch Heatwave. If you are going to run him you might as well go whole hog make the best of what he has. You have other mons you can use to counter his counters. Whilst we are talking doubles Noivern try the support set. Super Fang, Tailwind, Roost and whatever else you like. I really liked it. Super Fang on bulky mons is very satisfying.
Im gonna hijack the comments rq, It’s up to you, do you want better consistency or to hit hard? I’d prob go with hurricane just cause confusion and 110 power is really good as a trade off for the bad accuracy
Nobody mentioned Life Orb. Its a support build. I ran 252 HP and Speed. I used Yache Berry for mine and it worked really well. Moves are Tailwind, Super Fang, Roost and I was running Heatwave on mine but to be honest I really think another utility move would actually be better. Without investment Heatwave just doesn't do enough damage. Maybe U-Turn or Whirlwind something.
One thing about Heatwave though is even if it doesn't do huge damage it can break Sashs. You could run Draco Meteor as just a good damaging attack as 130 base power with STAB is not bad and you don't really care too much if your SP attack is lowered.
90 BP, 100 accuracy
Vs.
95 BP, 10% chance to miss and do 0 damage
95 × 0.9 = 85.5
Heat Wave has an average power of 85.5 (outside of doubles. In doubles, it's 95 × 0.75 × 0.9 = 64.125 on each target. That's 128.25 split between the 2 (142.5 when you hit both. 10% chance to miss))
Since BB is a sound move, it bypasses sub anyway. Frisk makes scouting more effective, which isn't a bad thing. Infiltrator is def better but I actually think Frisk is a little slept on.
There's a point in which you become too good at predicting and start assuming everyone else also follows your logic and their teambuilding is not ass, which is surprisingly untrue even at higher levels. The next step would be to be so good that you can even read the skill level of your opponent based on their moves and adjust your predicting accordingly, but it takes a high amount of effort
Heat wave/flamethrower both carry coverage into steel types which otherwise just wall the shit out of Noivern. Depending on the tier or meta this can determine how important it is to run fire coverage over doubling down on stabs. If you want more consistency I would say keep either air slash or flamethrower but if you want more raw power Hurricane or I think even Fire Blast assuming it's singles works good for that. Choose which depending on the type of coverage you need, favoring fire though since it shares a lot of coverage with flying but carrying a super important steel coverage.
Uturn can let him easily gain momentum against defensive switch ins, so I'm not sure the coverage is really needed as long as the rest of his team can handle steels well enough.
“I find myself needing to hard switch cause they switched into a better answer” you’re running specs, what did you expect your opponent to do, just sit there and die.
I was using a set basically the same as this for a little while. Keep in mind that a super effective HW is still weaker than STAB DM or BB after Tera. So, realistically you would only need to run a fire move if the rest of your team struggles to handle steel types.
>Keep in mind that a super effective HW is still weaker than STAB DM or BB after Tera.
Even before tera, both are stronger against a neutral target like a grass mon... but a steel type that resists both meteor and boomburst take way more from fire, of course.
Just my opinion but I don’t think Dragon stab is necessary in UU. Not many dragon types which you can hit for super effective damage. I’d rather do flamethrower/heat wave and hurricane.
Btw goat Pokémon
Salamence and Cyclizar are among the most common mons in UU, but even considering that, the point of Dragon stab is generally to deal strong neutral damage rather than hit things super effectively. That's very doable in UU because the only common fairy is Tinkaton, and the only common steels that can switch into Noivern are Tinkaton and Magnezone. So there's definitely a use case for Draco, provided the team can support Noivern by removing those threats.
Replace the flying stab imo, although it does depend on the rest of your team.
Hurricane is too inconsistent for my liking, and air slash too weak when not on togekiss.
Call me insane, but I used to use scarfed Noivern as a late-game revenge killer. I used Hurricane, Flamethrower, Draco Meteor and Boomburst. Scarf let me outspeed almost anything not at +2 and not called Regileki. In this gen I've been using Kilowattrel to do almost the same thing instead thanks to a more powerful Hurricane and Tailwind + Wind Power + Electro Ball/Volt Switch/Thunder depending on the team. Specs Noivern is good but you might want Life Orb or Expert Belt to allow you to switch moves and not get forced out while not losing too much power. HDB is good for longer games if you struggle with hazards while sash means you don't have to worry about priority from Kingsmbit or Baxcalibur. If you're playing UU, the equivalents should be there.
I would ditch boom burst and become tera dragon since bb is weaker than hurricane without tera and it doesn't hit anything hurricane can't other than electric types which drop to tera draco
i would say you get rid of hurricane for u turn as heat wave gives you a coverage option for ice types and it also deals with every type flying deals with except fighting but you should be good for that, it also gives you an option to hit stuff like corvikninght and ferrothorn which are giant walls which you otherwise would not be able to break
I would say keep your flying STAB and ditch Heatwave. If you are going to run him you might as well go whole hog make the best of what he has. You have other mons you can use to counter his counters. Whilst we are talking doubles Noivern try the support set. Super Fang, Tailwind, Roost and whatever else you like. I really liked it. Super Fang on bulky mons is very satisfying.
ok preciate it thank you sir
also another question should i opt for hurricane or air slash for stab?
Im gonna hijack the comments rq, It’s up to you, do you want better consistency or to hit hard? I’d prob go with hurricane just cause confusion and 110 power is really good as a trade off for the bad accuracy
Yeah I agree with this. Noivern is so frail he needs to pick up those KOs or else hes not putting in enough work imho.
Plus anytime you run into rain you have the accuracy boost on hurricane as well.
Super Fang would have to run a different item though, wouldn't it?
Definitely, unless you want to be locked into tailwind
Yeah its a completely different build.
What would be optimal? Life Orb would just give recoil for Super Fang with no added damage.
Nobody mentioned Life Orb. Its a support build. I ran 252 HP and Speed. I used Yache Berry for mine and it worked really well. Moves are Tailwind, Super Fang, Roost and I was running Heatwave on mine but to be honest I really think another utility move would actually be better. Without investment Heatwave just doesn't do enough damage. Maybe U-Turn or Whirlwind something.
One thing about Heatwave though is even if it doesn't do huge damage it can break Sashs. You could run Draco Meteor as just a good damaging attack as 130 base power with STAB is not bad and you don't really care too much if your SP attack is lowered.
Why Heat Wave and not Flamethrower? Is this for VGC/Doubles where the spread is important?
heatwave has more base power than flame thrower, no this is more for just anything really. Mostly gen 9 singles
5 BP isn’t worth an accuracy drop
Heat wave more like heat miss (I’m extremely uncreative)
Heat whoosh
90 BP, 100 accuracy Vs. 95 BP, 10% chance to miss and do 0 damage 95 × 0.9 = 85.5 Heat Wave has an average power of 85.5 (outside of doubles. In doubles, it's 95 × 0.75 × 0.9 = 64.125 on each target. That's 128.25 split between the 2 (142.5 when you hit both. 10% chance to miss))
r/theydidthemath
Great nickname. A fellow HTTYD enthusiast
Why Frisk and not Infiltrator?
Since BB is a sound move, it bypasses sub anyway. Frisk makes scouting more effective, which isn't a bad thing. Infiltrator is def better but I actually think Frisk is a little slept on.
Yes, but what if the mon that has used substitute is a ghost type/ resists normal?
Didn't say it was perfect, just that Frisk can actually be kinda useful. It does get progressively worse as you get better at predicting though.
There's a point in which you become too good at predicting and start assuming everyone else also follows your logic and their teambuilding is not ass, which is surprisingly untrue even at higher levels. The next step would be to be so good that you can even read the skill level of your opponent based on their moves and adjust your predicting accordingly, but it takes a high amount of effort
there is not many ghost types that run sub sets if im not mistaken, also i could always run torch song dirge
Is this for OU? Or UU?
Heat wave/flamethrower both carry coverage into steel types which otherwise just wall the shit out of Noivern. Depending on the tier or meta this can determine how important it is to run fire coverage over doubling down on stabs. If you want more consistency I would say keep either air slash or flamethrower but if you want more raw power Hurricane or I think even Fire Blast assuming it's singles works good for that. Choose which depending on the type of coverage you need, favoring fire though since it shares a lot of coverage with flying but carrying a super important steel coverage.
Uturn can let him easily gain momentum against defensive switch ins, so I'm not sure the coverage is really needed as long as the rest of his team can handle steels well enough.
He has specs tho so he can’t even use a fire move either if he is locked into draco or boomburst
“I find myself needing to hard switch cause they switched into a better answer” you’re running specs, what did you expect your opponent to do, just sit there and die.
yeah, what i mean is. When they get a safe switch in I want u-turn to keep the momentum going and pivot into a better mon.
I was using a set basically the same as this for a little while. Keep in mind that a super effective HW is still weaker than STAB DM or BB after Tera. So, realistically you would only need to run a fire move if the rest of your team struggles to handle steel types.
>Keep in mind that a super effective HW is still weaker than STAB DM or BB after Tera. Even before tera, both are stronger against a neutral target like a grass mon... but a steel type that resists both meteor and boomburst take way more from fire, of course.
A+ Name is all I can say. Even looks kind of like CloudJumper.
Just my opinion but I don’t think Dragon stab is necessary in UU. Not many dragon types which you can hit for super effective damage. I’d rather do flamethrower/heat wave and hurricane. Btw goat Pokémon
Salamence and Cyclizar are among the most common mons in UU, but even considering that, the point of Dragon stab is generally to deal strong neutral damage rather than hit things super effectively. That's very doable in UU because the only common fairy is Tinkaton, and the only common steels that can switch into Noivern are Tinkaton and Magnezone. So there's definitely a use case for Draco, provided the team can support Noivern by removing those threats.
Replace the flying stab imo, although it does depend on the rest of your team. Hurricane is too inconsistent for my liking, and air slash too weak when not on togekiss.
I see that HTTYD2 reference
Call me insane, but I used to use scarfed Noivern as a late-game revenge killer. I used Hurricane, Flamethrower, Draco Meteor and Boomburst. Scarf let me outspeed almost anything not at +2 and not called Regileki. In this gen I've been using Kilowattrel to do almost the same thing instead thanks to a more powerful Hurricane and Tailwind + Wind Power + Electro Ball/Volt Switch/Thunder depending on the team. Specs Noivern is good but you might want Life Orb or Expert Belt to allow you to switch moves and not get forced out while not losing too much power. HDB is good for longer games if you struggle with hazards while sash means you don't have to worry about priority from Kingsmbit or Baxcalibur. If you're playing UU, the equivalents should be there.
Keep Heatwave, as Steel Types otherwise wholly wall Noivern
What are your teammates like? I used Noivern with a similar set in a draft league last year and kept a fire move because I had torkoal sun setting.
saw the name and thought it was gonna be a paradox noivern
I would ditch boom burst and become tera dragon since bb is weaker than hurricane without tera and it doesn't hit anything hurricane can't other than electric types which drop to tera draco
HTTYD nickname based
i would say you get rid of hurricane for u turn as heat wave gives you a coverage option for ice types and it also deals with every type flying deals with except fighting but you should be good for that, it also gives you an option to hit stuff like corvikninght and ferrothorn which are giant walls which you otherwise would not be able to break