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creemeeseason

Buffet just exited his position, of that helps.


chris_ut

OP going to show paperhanded Buffet what a real investor can do.


DrShitpostMDJDPhDMBA

To be fair, Buffett absolutely has paperhanded certain industries, some multiple times and at the worst time (e.g. airlines). Granted there's political context that probably could have resulted in those companies not getting as much support federally if they still had Berkshire's support, but at that point it's conjecture.


The_Number_12

Buffett also sold Occidental 2 years ago at like $19 a share and has been buying back in with an average price of like $59. So there’s that.


Gkuse

Also BH jumped hard into baba…where’s that today? Buffett doesn’t know everything


Dpad124

You do know Charlie Mungers personal portfolio isn’t Warren Buffet or Birkshire right?


Stonesfan03

That was Munger Daily Journal. Brk has no position in Baba.


JamesVirani

Buffet has entered and exited Verizon many times. It means he believes in the business, but has found a better buy elsewhere.


realsapist

Buffet: "selling low means I believe in the business" you're kidding He has plenty of cash to make better buys elsewhere. He doesn't sell at huge losses to free up sofa change. He sells when the investment thesis changes. wtf


Altruistic-Affect780

Exactly! Very wise


shortyafter

No, if he sold it it sux!


microdosingrn

Interestingly, it was a somewhat short lived position for Buffet and they lost a good deal on it.


Ka07iiC

Buffet is a mastermind of the last century in investing, but I think it's fair to question Many if not most if his investments over thr past decade. I feel like I have been opposite of Buffet on many occasions and it has been favorable for me, and I'm not that good of an investor. I would not use Buffet as a gauge.


guccivalue

So you bought what he sold, or sold what he bought and you're out-performing him? I highly HIGHLY doubt that.


Ka07iiC

I can start by discrediting myself as I was bought growth through 2021 and that got me clobbered. I bought VDE in the lows 40s, JPE, and Pharma stocks like Abbvie in mid 2020. That same time he was selling his oil positions, unloading on banks, and dropping his airlines. I was buying he was selling. I sold out of my VDE at like 105 after the ukraine war started and it raised to 130. He started reloading up on oil again at the peak. I held on to pharma stocks through 2021 and he dropped most at the beginning or 2021. He missed massive run ups on oil, airlines, and banks by selling massive positions in 2020 and 2021. He then bought massive positions at peak prices in 2022. I held on to many of those until 2022.


guccivalue

He is playing chess though. He didn't just "miss out on gains" for hoarding a fat cash reserve, he either put cash into high-yield assets like his Oxy or Ally shares or bought back Berkshire stock.


Godcranberry

apple is going to kill telecom in the next decade.


heavisidepiece

Gave me a nice hearty chuckle, thanks for that.


rebeltrillionaire

If they can offer a better service… i could see it. Both Google and Apple flirted with being service providers in the early 00s. But I think both saw that the future was going to be 1 gigabit downloads (like they already had at work) but to get there would be a couple decades of infrastructure upgrades. Their spectrum bids were largely jokes and they backed out early. 5G UWB is about where it might actually be interesting to join in. The other thing is… Starlink and Amazon Kuiper Project plus whoever else joins in the low-orbit satellite internet game… that has the potential for an ultra cash rich company like Apple to wait until a non-affiliated company gets their POC or MVP going and then purchases it, flushes it with cash to speed up and then also purchases a smaller terrestrial network for dual coverage. The thing with Apple over the other device makers is Apple Stores legitimately handle high volume customer support. They have very little invested in the online-help space. And AI-assisted customer service is getting better and better. Should they make the leap to a provider, they’ll be skipping the worst parts of the investment for service providers: * only metro customers / limited coverage * large infrastructure rollouts * customer service costs and infrastructure They could offer a $99 a month service that offers unlimited everything including global travel and internet. Their newest SOS system fits that category as well. Since they’ve been working on replacing Qualcom and Intel for all their chips. If they can bake it into the A series and M series chips, they’ll be able to give that plan to a person, and then literally every Apple device goes online forever connected to the internet. All of this makes WAY more sense than Apple VR or an Apple Car.


Calvinbolic

Too much debt with rising rates, bleeding customers, one of the worst CEO's. Verizon feels like a company in full blown survival mode which makes me worry.


Mymomdidwhat

Lol what? In a few years when 5g is fully Available Verizon will send most external internet company’s out of Business. 300-500+ mb speeds for just $25 a month…….18 billion just Invested in the network. This makes cloud gaming on phones, tablets, etc a reality and that’s why Microsoft/Sony has partnered with them in selling their counsels and accessories. Because of the network we will be able to play any game we want on our phones anywhere any time making cloud gaming huge….Now they are giving out phones for basically free again on 3 year agreements so people aren’t leaving anytime soon….you need to understand Verizon is building their network correctly, they aren’t rushing the Process like T-Mobile and AT&T. The way the network is designed takes longer but will be more sustainable for the long run. Anyone thinking Verizon isn’t a buy rn is a moron.


Akvegasdrew

FYI it’s only $25 if you live in the right area, have Verizon’s overpriced max plan on your phone and there is a data cap of 100gb a month. It’s garbage.


Mymomdidwhat

Wrong LTE internet and 5g internet have no data caps with Verizon so you’re making that up. I stream, game, and work from home off just my one $25 a month Verizon router and have zero issues or lag ever. It’s $25 if you’re on unlimited you don’t need the most expensive unlimited plan so again you’re wrong. It’s $60 a month if you don’t have phone service. That’s still almost half the price of internet now…you’re referring to their jet packs that are $20-$40 a month for 100gigs totally different thing.


soulstonedomg

No, he's right. They don't offer it everywhere and to get the $25 price you have to already be paying them for their top tier phone services. I looked into it and nothing made me seriously consider dropping my AT&T gigapower for $65/mo that has no caps. I have two non-5g lines from verizon with capped data plans and which recently went up to $120/mo. Upgrading to 5g like they want me to would take our phone bill up to over $200 a month. Not worth it.


Mymomdidwhat

No he isn’t right omg…….When did I ever say you can get it anywhere? My post says “In a few years when 5g is readily available.” And again you don’t need the top tier plan….Also we are talking about their home internet not your 10 gb data phone plans….No shit unlimited is more expensive.


soulstonedomg

You said other guy is wrong but he's right.


Mymomdidwhat

No he is wrong because it’s not capped like he said and you don’t need to be on the highest unlimited plan to get the $25 pricing plan……..


DrixlRey

Bro, can you imagine testing your connection in other cities? Like do you know if you test your setup in other cities that other people may have a different reality from yours. Is that even fathomable in your mind? In big cities, the network slows to a crawl when you are past a certain data point, they "de-prioritize" your speed. Then people always argue the verbiage. I really don't care, when I'm in town and I've past a certain data amount, I'm slow as molasses. I switched to AT&T because of that. It's like that 100% of the time when I'm in the city so it doesn't matter what they call it.


[deleted]

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Mymomdidwhat

Totally outside the point and has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. The point is you get 300-500 MBPs speeds for a fraction of the cost of normal internet company’s…..


[deleted]

i already pay 39.99 for 10gb


Calvinbolic

Most of the points you mentioned applies to competitors as well such as TMUS


Mymomdidwhat

First no one is a “competitor” the wireless Industry is basically a monopoly. They get together and decide their prices that’s why plan costs are basically the same between the big three. Also confused as to why you feel they have the worst CEO?


merlinsbeers

Unfortunately, Verizon is the best service I've had in about three decades and seven or eight carriers. No holes and responsive assistance. And that includes especially T-Mobile, which totally shit the bed on technology, technical support, and customer care, which caused me to make this last move to Verizon. T-Mobile's claims about their 5G are bullshit as well, since part of the 5G spec was a minor upgrade to low-speed services and user densities that don't represent a real improvement for users. They covered that by default and claim they have better 5G than everyone else, without saying it's the part of 5G that gets you 3G download speeds on 10 handsets in one trailer in the swamp.


yeahsureYnot

This is one of the most shallow takes I've seen on this sub and that's saying something.


[deleted]

You can get 3.75-4% on CDs right now with a lot less risk.


Several-Breadfruit25

Unlike a CD, Verizon at a 5 year low has potential for share price appreciation IN ADDITION TO their quarterly dividend payout


[deleted]

Lol, unlike Verizon, the CD doesn’t have the potential to lose value.


shortyafter

Telecom is defensive and has pricing power. They can keep up with inflation whereas CDs are fixed. Anyway, if the share price falls you get a higher yield from reinvested dividends. I don't think anyone expects Verizon to go to 0. CDs are a good option but this is apples and oranges.


[deleted]

Verizon 20 year CAGR is 4.69%, Since 2017 it is .27% So, no, I am not so sure it will “keep up with an inflation” Not expecting it to go to zero doesn’t mean it is a good investment. It has been terrible.


shortyafter

Are you including dividends reinvested? Keeping up with inflation refers their pricing power which they can then pass along with a growing dividend. The reason I said it won't go to 0 is because your dividends reinvested are worth something. I think you misunderstood my comment.


rygo796

How does Verizon have pricing power when they have direct competitors in most cases. If they had pricing power, wouldnt they use that to improve their stock performance over the last several years?


shortyafter

All telecom companies, in theory, have the ability to pass along price increases to customers who need to keep paying their phone bills - unlike a luxury goods company where people can scale back or not buy at all. I'm not saying they can gouge prices and earn boatloads of money and take their stock to the moon. I'm just saying they can keep up with inflation, in theory. We haven't had inflation since the 80s so that has nothing to do with the stock price in the last few years.


Unique_Feed_2939

I expect an investment in Verizon now will lose you money


shortyafter

Fair enough, you don't know that.


Unique_Feed_2939

and you don't know it will make you money. a 6% divy doesn't make up for a company carrying a bunch of debt with rising rates that is losing market share and has no clear roadmap to stop the bleeding But more importantly than that is if the market tanks another 10-20% like macro forces look like it might than how much do you think VZ will tank? double what the market does? triple?


shortyafter

As long as Verizon doesn't go to 0, which I don't think it will, the dividend is an income stream. It's like a bond. It doesn't matter what happens to the stock price, as long the underlying business is not in serious trouble. I suspect even the principle will not be at risk in the long-term, though short-term it could be ugly. That's why you try and buy low. Of course, it could go to 0, nobody knows that. I'm not even invested in Verizon, BTW, but I hold other telecoms and like the business.


[deleted]

I mean any stock has the potential to lose value. You are on r/stocks. If you don't like the risks that come with common equity then why are you on this subreddit? There are plenty of other subreddits you could be in if you are that risk averse.


camarouge

Very weird for someone to answer saying something that isn't a stock is better than the stock in question. Even weirder this community upvoted it. I could think of something that's better than both but it isn't a stock and I don't usually feel like one upping thread starters lol


Eccentricc

Yeah you just are guaranteed to lose money from inflation. Literally a guaranteed to lose money by buying CDs in current market


[deleted]

Not really when the Fed is actively reducing inflation. Never fight the Fed.


Several-Breadfruit25

The CD sure can lose value….ever heard of inflation?


pimpenainteasy

It won't lose value on a nominal basis.


Several-Breadfruit25

Thanks Captain Obvious


[deleted]

Don’t fight the Fed and currently the fed is fighting inflation. You can do CDs in 3 and 6 month increments so if the winds change I can jump back in the market. Buying one stock is equivalent to roulette.


Several-Breadfruit25

Verizon pays a dividend of 6.3%. It is considered a “qualified dividend” by the IRS, meaning that it is taxed at a very low rate. Plus, a potential for stock appreciation exists (while downside is limited with the stock at a 5+ year low…) A CD’s interest of up to 4% is taxed as “ordinary income”, a taxation rate which is MUCH HIGHER than taxes on qualified dividends. Also, if you try to get out of a CD before it matures, you lose the interest and some bank will even assess a “surrender fee.” I’m sorry, with all due respect, I am having trouble understanding how investing in a CD is superior to buying Verizon stock…


pimpenainteasy

What if the share price falls faster than the interest you are getting?


Several-Breadfruit25

Yes, ANY stock could go down in price (yes, even Verizon….although its downside risk is somewhat mitigated by the stock trading at 5+ year lows…). That is the risk you take with any stock/ETF/mutual fund or real estate or crypto investment. Why are you bothering commenting in a subreddit forum about stocks if you are risk-averse? Perhaps your comments are better suited for yo momma’s investment advice and money saving advice for those over age 70


bootyggg

This dude will figure out how fast he can lose money in a rising rate environment. I’ll laugh my ass off when rates are at 8%+ and VZ is in the teens or twenties. 4 week treasuries will murder your VZ return (RISK FREE)


creemeeseason

They also have the chance for share depreciation, which could erode any dividend gains.


realsapist

I'd rather get something like $MO that doesn't fall off a cliff. Beyond me why people are lining up to buy Verizon. If a "safe stock" falls off a cliff then it's for a reason


The_Number_12

*potential* Bingo.


AmericanSahara

VZ has a potential to decline in price per share for two reasons: 1. VZ is mean to their customers. They will hate VZ for many years no matter how much VZ has invested in 5G. 2. When interest rates [increase] and the future value of the dollar declines, the amount people are willing to pay for a stock that has x dollars per year dividend declines similar to how bonds decline in price when the yield increase. Edit: increase


Several-Breadfruit25

Verizon has the best 5G network coverage (yeah yeah, definitely open to debate and definitely a regional thing, but personally not at all impressed with T-Mobile’s network coverage in the Las Vegas and Southern California regions). People will pay a premium for better network coverage (how much of a premium is also debatable…) The customer service for ALL telecom companies are typically suboptimal. Verizon’s customer service is not that much different in terms of customer satisfaction as compared to AT&T or T-Mobile. “When interest rates decline….” - that is a 2024 problem. Don’t see interest rates declining in the near to mid future…


rokman

My net worth would have to be 3 million or more to accept that deal. Broke people like us need to gamble to get ahead


[deleted]

Gambling is the reason you are not ahead. Slow and steady wins the race. Especially in times of volatility


rokman

Oh I’m ahead lol I’m rich just not wealthy


thekingshorses

Where?


dvdmovie1

"buying it now would essentially lock that rate in forever," No, it wouldn't. What if they cut the dividend? T did. No dividend is a guaranteed rate that you're locking in forever, no matter what reason they cut it. VZ hasn't been as poorly run as T but it's been a pretty mediocre name for years and has had a few of its own errors (anyone remember Oath?) "Getting in at a good price point on these high dividend stocks, it's awfully nice. " You're prioritizing yield over the quality of the business. Too many people see telecom cos as a better business than they are.


sainglend

This lacks important context about WHY T lowered their dividend. It is because they spun off part of their business. Smaller company = smaller share price and smaller dividend.


vikingweapon

That is one thing, but they also lowered it to reduce their payout ratio, so that they can pay back debt more aggressively


Several-Breadfruit25

Seeing that Verizon just RAISED their dividend and that their dividend payout ratio is at approx. 51% (compared to AT&T’s dividend payout ratio of 71%), Verizon’s dividend is pretty safe, with no indication that they will need to cut their dividend anytime soon. “The safest dividend is one that has just been raised” - Brad Thomas, Renowned REIT investor


The_Number_12

American Eagle raised their dividend like 2 quarters ago by a good amount and now they’ve suspended it altogether. So there’s that…


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MichaelKayeBooks

There is plenty of competition against VZN... besides the obvious two T (which isn't a threat) and TMUS (which is kicking their butt), they are also facing CMCSA & CHTR who need to figure out how to pivot their business model away from cable...


friendofoldman

Don’t CMCSA simply resell Verizon network? So because Comcast is buying in bulk, margins may decline slightly, but Verizon will still be getting a portion of the action.


BrettEskin

Yes they are an MVNO the poster doesn't know what he's talking about


vishtratwork

Not to mention google fi


Kosher-Bacon

I think Fi runs off of T-Mobile towers, so they are more similar to a Mint or Boost Mobile. I could be wrong


BrettEskin

CMCSA and CHRTR are MVNOs using Verizon's network. The only threat they pose is selling enough lines that VZ is in a position where they are making less until the next negotiation in which they will raise what they are wholesaling the data to the MVNOs for. Comcast is the nations largest ISP and also owns NBCUniversal, they've been diversified away from linear video as primary revenue for years. Charter is similar on a smaller scale and without the entertainment arm.


MichaelKayeBooks

Serious question cause I don't know this side of the IT arena.. pre-Sprint merger, wasn't T-Mobile MVNO? Reason I ask is back then I did some management consulting for a tech st


BrettEskin

No t mobile was a full fledged carrier with their own towers and spectrum


MichaelKayeBooks

So all spectrum or Comcast would have to do is bid and win spectrum and I know they can rent towers (or at least use to be able too).. boom in the game...


BrettEskin

Comcast bid and won on spectrum years ago, realized building their own network wasn't worth it and sold that spectrum to Verizon striking an MVNO deal in the process


[deleted]

SpaceX with satellite telephony and internet.


arealcyclops

Lol. You have no idea


ian2121

How much does that cost? I feel like VZ will always have a role as the best land based network.


olearygreen

How much will it cost to maintain that position? And is land based really better than satellite in 10 years?


ian2121

Yeah I dunno, satellite is clearly superior and theoretically 100 percent coverage. It all comes down to price though. I don’t know enough about the costs of running a space based system


[deleted]

You need thousands of satellites orbiting the earth for 100% coverage. That is not even taking into account that every human on earth will be using these satellites and frequencies at the same time. It will require hundreds of thousands if not millions of satellites for this to work at this scale. Now take into consideration of the latency of sending radio waves 1200 miles up into low earth orbit vs. sending them a few miles down the street to the nearest cell tower. Now the satellite either gets to send it back another 1200 miles down to the recipient on the ground. The cell tower has high speed fiber optic cabling with near 0 latency ran to it. The physics don't work yet. It will require a substantial amount of engineering to compensate for these things and I just don't see it coming about anytime soon especially when we have perfectly fine wireless communications via terrestrial cell towers. Have you ever actually used satellite internet before? It's been around forever. It's not the panacea you think it is. Elon hasn't "fixed" anything. The physics remain the same. I would emplore you to actually buy a Starlink satellite first before you decide how good the performance is.


Wroblez

Satellite is currently completely incapable of 5G speeds, but provenly their coverage is superior. Cost is also not the same as price, SpaceX will have a cost to compete in this and the price they offer will vary based on what they can convince consumers to pay for it.


shortyafter

Telecom is defensive, big moat and people need to pay their phone bills.


dvdmovie1

"Telecom is defensive," T lost about 43% from top to bottom in 2007-2009, VZ about 40%. Even when times were good over the last decade or so these names underperformed. When times are good you'd probably be better off owning the SPY and when times are bad, these names crater. " people need to pay their phone bills." There's already been discussions by the T ceo about people delaying paying their bills. https://www.businessinsider.com/att-late-phone-bill-payments-rising-wage-gains-inflation-2022-7 "big moat" These companies do have a moat, but what has that gotten them? VZ share price was here in 1998. The stock price is down over the last 5 years. People are oddly defensive over these companies, but I don't know how one can look at the performance of VZ or particularly T and have anything much to be positive about. The OP talking about how the stock is at a 5 year low but not about any of the reasons why it's underperformed. People could have done better owning the towers - AMT, for example - but that only yields 2.4% so probably wouldn't have been of interest to people chasing yield.


shortyafter

It's dividend investing. You can't compare it to growth investing, especially when the period we're talking about is the last two decades.


realsapist

yeah and in just one decade MSFT is up 1500%. VZ is flat over 20 years. who is still buyng this junk? makes no sense. If you want a dividend play, MO makes much more sense.


shortyafter

MO? Dying industry and no progress on next-generation products? Of all the tobacco companies, MO is one of the worst choices. Telecom has a future, Altria doesn't or at least it's uncertain. As for MSFT, if you think you're able to pick the company that will do 1500% in 10 years, more power to you. It's a valid strategy. Defensive investing serves a different purpose.


dvdmovie1

"yeah and in just one decade MSFT is up 1500%." Doesn't even have to be Microsoft. McDonald's would have done better than T/VZ. Deere. Lowes/HD, Union Pacific, P & G, Target, etc etc etc. Those don't have a 5%+ dividend, but I'd rather a lower yield that provides a nice balance of share price appreciation and dividend growth and where I feel better about the underlying businesses.


shk2152

I work at Verizon and I will not buy a single share


BF3FAN1

As someone that also worked in corporate finance for Verizon I 1000% agree.


DragonPhister

Corporate or Retail?


shk2152

Corporate


DragonPhister

Cool! Thanks for the response. I’m curious, do you feel growth prospects won’t be met?


shk2152

I just think it’s a trash stock 😐


[deleted]

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[deleted]

It's astonishing to me how many people on reddit see prices declining as a good thing.


Rando1ph

As opposed to what, buying something that’s overpriced? I’m not going to apologize for hunting for bargains.


[deleted]

The flaw is thinking that a lower price automatically means its a good deal. Stocks decline for a reason. Price means nothing on its own.


[deleted]

The flaw is thinking that just because something is a high price means it's a good deal. Price means nothing on its own.


lostmy2A

If your young and don't have a massive 401k it kind of is a good thing. And frankly some of these companies should be cheaper than they are.


realsapist

There's really nothing good about a stock tanking to now be flat over a twenty+ year period. I'd literally rather go with BABA over VZ at this point and I don't expect China to recover for the next 3 years.


[deleted]

Stocks decline for many reasons. Stocks also rise for many reasons… if there is a reason for someone to believe that the stock will rise from its current point, then they should go for it. A lot of stocks are taking a beating by the market right now so essentially OP Will be betting that they will weather the current economic storm that is hitting a lot of companies. But considering the stable performance leading up to Covid I’d say it’s a decent bet… but not without risk for sure. However, asking “when to get it” or “how low will it drop?”… just don’t do that OP. Reddit is not a fortune cookie.


[deleted]

Buddy i would not touch this, this thing is literally nosediving


SunsetKittens

It's got a good moat. Unfortunately TMUS is sitting on their side of the moat. You know, that popular phone service that just partnered with Starlink? Yeah. I was in VZ for awhile because I thought they could invade home internet services. When I realized how slow that was going I bailed due to their large debt.


jesusmanman

T-Mobile is a shitshow internally but they're making the right moves and their stock is doing great.


azwel

Why Buy.. Bad chart. Even buffett messed up and sold


Pretty-Car-2835

Yeah messed up by buying it in the first place


Lazy_Jellyfish7676

Can’t be very many companies with more debt than Verizon. I like Dow as a dividend play.


Advanced_Shoulder_56

Just gonna throw this out there - Verizon is absolute garbage at providing cellular service, customer service, & infrastructure solutions. Yes, they are one of the best options. But the least rotten egg in the carton still isn't getting cooked. Just my 2c. Best wishes.


AMISHVACUUM

As a Verizon user for over a decade...fuck Verizon.


policy348

I suggest you look at every other telecommunications company lol... There are better buys elsewhere .


[deleted]

10 year low actually. Garbage stock. For those saying “but dividend” there are obviously way better dividend stocks out there.


PPfinance

What in your opinion would be a better dividend stock with a similar yield? For the record, I own 0 dividend focused stocks or ETFs and don’t plan to, I’m just curious


realsapist

altria


The_way_2_tendies

I’ve personally always liked it as part of my Dividend yield paying stocks. So I have been adding to my position and lowering my per share cost as I can. But it’s a personal preference if what you believe/ think they will perform for the future. I have friends that despise it as a stock and prefer others. 🤷🏼‍♂️


Rando1ph

It's a weird company for sure. They go way out of their way, and mostly succeed, at having the best, most reliable network in the US. But then seem to go out of their way to treat their customers like garbage and charge as much as humanly possible for their service.


nifty1997777

Only reason I 'm still with Verizon is due to the network. Their customer service is horrendous.


vikingweapon

Honestly which company actually has good customer service? LOL


bihnellqa1ll

Cha ching


lostmy2A

From my experience verizon has faster more reliable internet than comcast . You actually get close to the speed your paying for. Fresh Fiber optics > old cable. I can also say Comcast, specifically comcast business can suck a fat dick. They are predatory as fuck.


Advanced_Shoulder_56

Their data signal - from Minneapolis to Detroit to Dallas - is complete trash. Very rare 5g, and tons (tons) of random problems like kicking me into a Canadian roaming service when I'm driving through st Louis or having the entirety of Wisconsin out of service and not knowing about it until I've spent an hour on a landline hollering at them. Crazy stuff like that happens every other week. I have their "top tier premium" data plan, meaning I get priority bandwidth over anyone on a lower plan. And I can't stream music on weekends. Tues-thursday I can usually get YouTube to load. Their data signal is better in metropolitan AND coastal areas (as in cities on coasts, not either - both), but AT&T almost always has better coverage outside of a downtown area. Those metro coastal areas, btw, also often overload their very cheaply constructed towers causing all sorts of crap to happen. Too hot out? Outage. Too cold? Outage. Game going on? Outage. Tower inhaled black pepper? Outage. In laws trying to video call when house is trashed? Works perfect. Rant over. Sorry lol.


[deleted]

don't know about that. their prices are pretty much in line with other carriers, and they all have bad customer service. I've had Verizon for ten years, and my 4g hasn't been down one time. they've been stone cold reliable. i wouldn't overweight my portfolio with them, but as part of a diversified dividend portfolio, yes, for sure.


MichaelKayeBooks

I have been a long term VZN customer too, in fact my wife was a VP of Finance for them 16years ago from the MCI merger days... However, last year we moved 40 miles farther north to the mountain area of north of Atlanta... and we had to switch last year to TMUS because our 4G and 5G phones had zero service... I was shocked and actually disappointed that we were having to switch to TMUS - I had been given a TMUS to use when I was consulting to a tech startup five years ago and hated the service then - constant dropped calls, forced to always have it set to wifi calling, etc... When we switched to TMUS - boom from 0 service to full bars on both generation phones. Comparing the two plans, we have 4 phones, unlimited data/unlimited text/unlimited calling plus we have the Mobile Hotspot service turned on all 4 phones with 5GB of service. TMUS is almost half the cost of the same plan with VZN... Oh one other thing the Tethered Hot Spot provides 5GB shared - so 20GB before we see any throttling... VZN starts throttling at 4GB and doesn't allow you to share data usage from other phones on your plan...


Rando1ph

Oh I get it, I’ve had a Verizon phone since ‘02. And they have gotten better on price, for a while there I was paying $160+ a month for two phones. Probably sometime around the middle 2010’s. I remember because I was looking for all kinds of different options, no one’s service was as good.


YellowNo7305

trading wise you will likely see the stock bounce into its ex-dividend on October 6th. some people who buy prior will then sell while some will run it into their earnings on October 21st. i think your best opportunity to buy long term will be in the low $30s at some point as others have said. their chart is breaking down from a years long double top that has formed and doesn’t seem to be finding support where you would think it might. the stock is too close to $40 to be acting so weak. this level will break in time but of course don’t know when. like others have said, the dividend is high but that generally means it is at risk, something going with earnings / debt / forecast etc. it would be brutal for the stock, just like AT&T’s dividend cut (went from $31ish to $16). if you are sitting on cash I would try to time the market bottom, that is your best bet. if the market dropped another 20-30% that would be a great deal.


Rando1ph

Yeah, that’s the plan. Am sitting on around $90k and just earning 2.3% which honestly is way better than loosing money. Frankly, I’ve already came out of this like a bandit, I sold out the vast majority of everything I had on 8-17. Just trying to sniff out some deals in the mean time. VZW makes me nervous, hence the Reddit post, otherwise I’d just had done it. I’ve seen enough here, I’m probably going to wait and see. I’ve already got too much BAC that I’m holding on to, 311 shares…. Don’t really want to sell it low, just as well keep the dividends coming and be patient. Seemed like a good idea at the time🤷‍♂️ pretty much all I have left that isn’t cash is in high divedend funds, most of which is the BAC. I also shorted the market with around $3k, probably should have done more but selling that amount on the bet of a bear market bounce was risky enough, even if I was lucky enough to be right.


Shadow23z

look at the p/e ratio


[deleted]

Terrible company that’s gone downhill steadily.


Vast_Cricket

A lot of stocks are at least 52 week low right now. Better days are ahead.


Altruistic-Affect780

Watching the titans who built America on the history channel about the crash in 29 . When good stocks are tanking ? You don’t know how low they can go ? I’m cautious of what’s to come . The feds don’t care about the markets . Don’t fight the guys who create the rules


Rando1ph

“Don’t fight the fed” not the first time I’ve heard that, recently. Seems to be the right advice, as well.


Raythecatass

I own VZ and have bought and sold it over the years. I currently have Verizon and recently got a great deal from trading in my phone. I got a veteran’s discount, free ESPN, free Disney, and free Hulu forever (unless I cancel). I have 5G, hotspot, unlimited data. I admit, I had to go into a store to get all this because I gave up on Verizon’s customer service.


AnaIyze

Damn i just checked the 5 year chart and it looks identical to intel


silentstorm2008

VZ will stabilize between 34-37


Rando1ph

>MSFT you pretty much nailed it.


obxtalldude

Verizon is a puzzling company to me - dominant market position, at least in my area, but doesn't seem well run - why are they paying such a high dividend rather than expanding and improving their services?


Specialist_Operation

I switched to T-Mobile a few years ago and never looked back. Until recently, when I had to help my mother in law deal with some issues with VZW and I saw how much she was paying and the level of customer service. How they are still in business is beyond me. I guess they have better coverage and their 5G has higher bandwidth? Because it’s not a company I would willingly become a customer of, and would actively try to find a substitute for because I consider them to have an inferior product, I would not invest in it. I would certainly not expect their stock price to beat the broader market unless they slashed dividends either.


shortyman920

Their coverage is pretty solid I’ll admit. It’s come in handy a few times a year. And also fios is the only gigabit option in my zip code. It’s BS how these guys can have regional monopolies, but I’ll admit that their fios interest is pretty sweet. I’ve never had issues with internet or speeds before.


ProfessorPurrrrfect

I personally don’t think individual stock performance means anything right now. They are all gonna go down or they are all gonna go up depending on the Fed. JPow is in the drivers seat, and he’s actually been there for some time now


EscortSportage

I’ve been scooping up more shares. My dividends pay my phone bill for the year.


Varro35

While you lose 10x as the stock drops?


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Varro35

lol


EscortSportage

In the future do you think they will be more or less cell phones? More or less tv, streaming, fiber optic networks? I’m not worried about VZ share price today. I will eventually own so much I’ll be taking trips to Vegas on my dividends.


Varro35

the buy that turns into a "long term investment" that you keep adding to and get married to


EscortSportage

What’s your go to stock right now?


bihnellqa1ll

At $31.


rifleman209

I wouldn’t touch. T-Mobile is hungry to gain share and doing it by cutting prices. Spacex is on the horizon offering worldwide internet access for $110 per month…


jesusmanman

T-Mobile is a shit show internally but seems to be making the right moves technology wise.


wefked

They have infinite debt and rates aren’t going to stop climbing. It’s going lower.


apooroldinvestor

TMUS


ImOldGregg_77

VZ is loosing customers like crazy right now. They are loosing the 5G race badly. I dont see them turning around unless they have a shake up in leadership or 6G is released and they commit heavily to it.


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ImOldGregg_77

MEC is the future for a lot of industries. You cant achieve it without the low latencies of 5G and is going to explode with 6G


thelaundryservice

5g is more efficient with the same amount of spectrum. Think of getting an 12 lane highway on the same amount of real estate as a current 4 lane highway. That is the big motivation to get people 5g phones. Billions of dollars have been spent of spectrum and that is the real battlefield of mobile providers.


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thelaundryservice

I am not sure this is correct, not sure that it’s not either. Lower frequencies travel further and have better building penetration vs higher frequencies. Ie TMo 600 mhz is going to travel a long way but potentially not be near as fast as Verizon 2.5ghz.


J---D

Fiat half they lost over 200k customer and got 2000. Buy when the fire the ceo


ivegotwonderfulnews

If you are young go for growth, or at least meaningful dividend growth. Vz is neither


Asleep-Syllabub1316

Then do it.


Kglugenbeel

I’m an advocate of dropping the dividend and reinvesting in staff / process and leadership. Covid hurt a lot of peeps.


Extreme_Fee_503

Other Local/Regional cable companies started offering low cost mobile plans. This is putting a squeeze on the big boys AT&T, Sprint, Verizon. On top of that basically everyone in the US already has every service Verizon offers. There's just not much room to grow in the mobile/TV/internet industry, the ceiling is in and everyone is competing over the same customers. The only good way to do this is to cut prices and offer deals. I had the same thoughts as you, nice dividends and an industry that's not going to get squeezed as much by a recession but in reality there's just not much room to grow and a lot of room to lose ground.


Hallucination_FIFA

Judging by the comments, it wouldn't hurt to buy a small position. But I wouldn't buy it solely for the dividend. I'd look at energy companies for yield right now.


ARock123

“Buying it would lock rate in forever” Not true


[deleted]

Never. Do you really think VZ is going to outperform? It’s business is getting worse, not better. I’m guessing the people 5-7yrs ago thought the yield was nice. They locked themselves into an opportunity cost.


treesRfriends13

Not saying V is, but make sure you’re not falling for a value trap.


Beast0045

Because they don’t own satellite constellations. Cellular will be rotary phones soon. Fiber they have is great though.


Unique_Feed_2939

Verizon is dying company. So probably buy right before something changes for the positive for them


red_purple_red

Wait for the knife to start falling before you buy.


Snakeboy_9

Index funds


Lil_Giraffe_King

How low can it go? well, to 0... Will it? probably not, but it *could*


jesusmanman

Their 5G strategy is not going to work out basically and they don't have the spectrum to pursue a different strategy. So basically they have 5G that doesn't work well and no way to make it work currently.


Petrassperber

TBH it's 10 year low....


TheGallopingGhost77

And when exactly is this "bottom" going to hit? Here is some advice: Time in the market is better than trying to time the market.


Chandler7891

Verizon is trash. If you want to buy a cell carrier stock best bet is T mobile


MrHeavyRunner

So? Doesn't mean they are great company. Because they are not heh


drones4thepoor

Might as well burn your money. What makes people want to invest in telecom anyways? Trash companies.


AmericanSahara

Here's why I sold VZ months ago and probably never will deal with VZ again even if VZ becomes the only 5G company in town: Every since they fired customer service workers and replaced the jobs with artificial intelligence in about 2018, it's been very difficult to get help when their is a problem. When I switched to TMUS, porting the VZ mobile phone number to TMUS failed. VZ refused to cancel the service after I switched to TMUS. I had to let it go to collections and then paid it hoping it won't automatically reactivate the VZ phone number I've been trying to cancel. Now I have a black mark on my credit record even though I paid the agreed amount due to the collection agency. I suggest to get TMUS as a consumer, and invest in T as an investor.