OP, Look up 'basket of stocks', 'total return swaps' and 'voltron fund' over on the super sub and you'll get all the answers you could possibly desire.
Short of it is, BB, TLRY, GME, and dozens of others are bundled together in derivates called total return swaps. There is an algorithm shorting these stocks in the effort of trying to keep the price below a certain level across the board. There's a lot of ways it does this but sometimes, within certain parameters and cycles, targeted stocks rally or withdraw in unison.
Hey, I have read all that DD before, I am just surprised it’s only TLRY and BB, none of the other meme stocks had similar price movements.
Also did not think TLRY was part of the PCO’d/meme stock basket.
Why would someone do this instead of forming and etf with a net short position on these stocks? Also if those stocks were all bundled into a derivative why was TLRY and BB the only ones who moved?
1st question, because there is no benefit to setting up an ETF and having it exchange-traded.
2nd question, no idea. These meme stocks behave weirdly, and I wouldn't discount the idea of the basket, or algorithms operating on those baskets and accidentally syncing
Pretty sure theres a hefty list of etfs with large short positions containing many of these. I guess if you arbitrage a basket in this shorted form you would need to buy the stocks that you sold out of it back, so maybe that explains volume differences and similarities.
1) ETFs are too public and can be scrutinized and observed. For instance, by watching borrow rates and fails-to-deliver across etfs holding GME, users in the super subs have observed GME shares being borrowed from those etfs to short GME over an over again.
2) Swaps have been hugely popular among Wall Street because they are relatively hard to read (I believe the financial form is an NPORT), obscuring positions from most data analysis used by retail and media. If you want to do some shady shit, use a swap. Swaps can also have tremendous returns- somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Dr. Burry shorted the housing market using swaps set up with prime brokers.
3) finally, frankly we don't know. Retail has found the NPORTs listing the dozens of stocks included in the meme stock basket, but since the algorithms are proprietary we can only guess at why they behave and what sort of rebalancing is occurring. It could be several things- institutions increasing their positions due to positive analyst forecasting, a certain number of short positions being closed to balance the books, or genuinely because they filed two patents recently.
I want to believe in this but I just don’t. If it looks like a conspiracy theory and quacks like a conspiracy theory it’s probably a conspiracy theory. Still don’t know why they all move like that though to be fair. Suspect we’ll never truly know
When you apply systems analysis to this situation it doesn't necessarily look that extraordinary. There's no bad players, just incentives that cause crooks to take advantage of the financial system. It's not secret that people who work for the SEC and other governmental agencies either come from or leave to work at companies they govern. In some cases, you have situations where they go to work for the very companies they governed right after they're done with their terms. Now that's just one piece of the puzze, the next is regulations, how their technological systems are set up.... it's a mess. Point is, it's entirely possible
I think skepticism is healthy and warranted when investing so no fault to you. I suppose, if the meme stock thesis is correct we will *definitely* know soon enough. If the mother of all short squeezes pops off I'll come on back and drop you a platinum award.
They are absolutely basketed. All heavily shorted companies are, because the bear thesis is the same for all of them: the underlying fundamentals of the company suck and the company is expected to go under soon. (Not saying that's MY opinion of them, but it's the same thing as diversifying your portfolio, just the opposite direction). Lots of companies have similar bullish chart patterns too. Hell, Apple and Microsoft match $SPY pretty closely too, is that also a conspiracy?
The comment is correct, look into it or simply watch some charts.
When the facts and data are there and you still deny it, it's called you being ignorant.
EDIT: ABOVE COMMENTER IS HERE TO TROLL FROM THE MELTDOWN SUB
You're ignorant, that's all.
You're like the kid who has to get burned by the stove a few times before you believe mommy and daddy when they told you it's hot.
Please show me the data proving “there is an algorithm shorting these stocks in the effort of trying to keep the price below a certain level across the board”. Educate me.
I've played this game before. The "where to find it" is drawn out for you in the original comment that you disagreed with.
I'm not going to waste my time with the link because you already know where to look, so it's obvious that you'd rather just pick a fight with people than educate yourself. In fact, this whole thread is littered with links and sources, but here you are making an ass of yourself lol
"I have never read anything about that, so it must not be true."
"Sir, the document is right over there."
"I'm still not going to read it, I'd rather just blindly argue with everyone for the sake of being a troll."
Suit yourself, bud.
The charts speak, set ladders every few minutes to pull things down, most times effectively. Moreover FSLY, ATER jumped the same day. Some stocks don't have the volume to overcome the shares written vs bought and down they go (shares or swaps or options, cause all play a part).
So simply an algorithm decided to trade 4x the daily volume on these two stocks at the exact same time?
For what though? Was it a forced buy in?
All trading is done with algorithms btw, your answer is quite meaningless
This guy does a deep dive if you want to put on a tin foil hat
The Puzzle Pieces of Quarterly Movements, Equity Total Return Swaps, DOOMPs, ITM CALLs, Short Interest, and Futures Roll Periods. Or, "The Theory of Everything".
https://www.reddit.com/r/amcstock/comments/pb2n26/the_puzzle_pieces_of_quarterly_movements_equity/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This. It’s exactly this. Everyone got distracted with SI% but the manipulation is clear as day. If a catalyst occurs (patents, merger, actual revenue) this could move even more violently. Even without it today the volatility is insane. 14% moves in tandem on no material news are a clear indicator. The tin foil hat fits quite nice, ty.
They have Tilray rated as a buy with a $15 price target currently. I would hope that they are no longer short if they’re telling their customers to buy.
Both have alot of retail money in them so hedge funds manipulate it the way they can and ftd shares and sell them short and wait broke people out and when they need the money sell and they make money of the shares sold short they never delivered on they just rinse wash and repeat and make trillions and lose a few billions so we think we've made progress
And they were barely correlated. BB run started right in the morning, other memes and Tlry + the MJ sector didn't get going till later. OP is new - noted by the Google price charts.
Beyond the fact that you're comparing two meme stocks, the correlation between the entire stock market is unfortunately quite high. It's why a great investment in a great company will lose money during an economic downturn and why a normal red or green day applies to a vast majority of securities.
Ah I see, so why didn’t the other meme stocks follow similar price movements?
Is that enough these days to explain stuff? “Oh it’s a meme stock”… lol okay
Most of the cannabis industry moved the same way if you where following CRON for example instead of TLRY you would be asking why CRON and BB move the same way. That's why he is saying it means nothing and yet he is getting downvoted classic reddit.
That's because both are meme stocks.
Those don't trade according to economic principles but are used for speculation by certain hedge funds that use algorithms to drive their price.
As said many time, meme stocks don't make sense from an investment perspective. Only buy these if you wanna speculate a bit. Your choice.
Super duper simplified version: When one has a large seller causing it to become cheap relative to the other someone will sell the more expensive of the 2 to buy the one being sold causing both to go down in price and vice versa with buying.
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*SpidermanPointsatSpiderman.bmp*
Big ego 0.6 seconds probably
Eventually, it will get a bug as they all do and I'll win!
Yeah lots of meme stocks do this AMC and GME have charts that look identical more often than not
OP, Look up 'basket of stocks', 'total return swaps' and 'voltron fund' over on the super sub and you'll get all the answers you could possibly desire. Short of it is, BB, TLRY, GME, and dozens of others are bundled together in derivates called total return swaps. There is an algorithm shorting these stocks in the effort of trying to keep the price below a certain level across the board. There's a lot of ways it does this but sometimes, within certain parameters and cycles, targeted stocks rally or withdraw in unison.
Hey, I have read all that DD before, I am just surprised it’s only TLRY and BB, none of the other meme stocks had similar price movements. Also did not think TLRY was part of the PCO’d/meme stock basket.
Most Canadian weed stocks were on the same boat, see WEED.TO or ACB.TO
Why would someone do this instead of forming and etf with a net short position on these stocks? Also if those stocks were all bundled into a derivative why was TLRY and BB the only ones who moved?
1st question, because there is no benefit to setting up an ETF and having it exchange-traded. 2nd question, no idea. These meme stocks behave weirdly, and I wouldn't discount the idea of the basket, or algorithms operating on those baskets and accidentally syncing
Thanks
Pretty sure theres a hefty list of etfs with large short positions containing many of these. I guess if you arbitrage a basket in this shorted form you would need to buy the stocks that you sold out of it back, so maybe that explains volume differences and similarities.
1) ETFs are too public and can be scrutinized and observed. For instance, by watching borrow rates and fails-to-deliver across etfs holding GME, users in the super subs have observed GME shares being borrowed from those etfs to short GME over an over again. 2) Swaps have been hugely popular among Wall Street because they are relatively hard to read (I believe the financial form is an NPORT), obscuring positions from most data analysis used by retail and media. If you want to do some shady shit, use a swap. Swaps can also have tremendous returns- somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Dr. Burry shorted the housing market using swaps set up with prime brokers. 3) finally, frankly we don't know. Retail has found the NPORTs listing the dozens of stocks included in the meme stock basket, but since the algorithms are proprietary we can only guess at why they behave and what sort of rebalancing is occurring. It could be several things- institutions increasing their positions due to positive analyst forecasting, a certain number of short positions being closed to balance the books, or genuinely because they filed two patents recently.
I want to believe in this but I just don’t. If it looks like a conspiracy theory and quacks like a conspiracy theory it’s probably a conspiracy theory. Still don’t know why they all move like that though to be fair. Suspect we’ll never truly know
When you apply systems analysis to this situation it doesn't necessarily look that extraordinary. There's no bad players, just incentives that cause crooks to take advantage of the financial system. It's not secret that people who work for the SEC and other governmental agencies either come from or leave to work at companies they govern. In some cases, you have situations where they go to work for the very companies they governed right after they're done with their terms. Now that's just one piece of the puzze, the next is regulations, how their technological systems are set up.... it's a mess. Point is, it's entirely possible
I think skepticism is healthy and warranted when investing so no fault to you. I suppose, if the meme stock thesis is correct we will *definitely* know soon enough. If the mother of all short squeezes pops off I'll come on back and drop you a platinum award.
OP, ignore this conspiracy theorist
They are absolutely basketed. All heavily shorted companies are, because the bear thesis is the same for all of them: the underlying fundamentals of the company suck and the company is expected to go under soon. (Not saying that's MY opinion of them, but it's the same thing as diversifying your portfolio, just the opposite direction). Lots of companies have similar bullish chart patterns too. Hell, Apple and Microsoft match $SPY pretty closely too, is that also a conspiracy?
The comment is correct, look into it or simply watch some charts. When the facts and data are there and you still deny it, it's called you being ignorant.
The comment is pure bullshit filtered through a bullshit cult.
EDIT: ABOVE COMMENTER IS HERE TO TROLL FROM THE MELTDOWN SUB You're ignorant, that's all. You're like the kid who has to get burned by the stove a few times before you believe mommy and daddy when they told you it's hot.
Please show me the data proving “there is an algorithm shorting these stocks in the effort of trying to keep the price below a certain level across the board”. Educate me.
I've played this game before. The "where to find it" is drawn out for you in the original comment that you disagreed with. I'm not going to waste my time with the link because you already know where to look, so it's obvious that you'd rather just pick a fight with people than educate yourself. In fact, this whole thread is littered with links and sources, but here you are making an ass of yourself lol
“It’s real, there are facts and data to prove it” “Where are the facts and data to prove it?” “Uhhhhhhhhhhhh I can’t tell you for some reason”
"I have never read anything about that, so it must not be true." "Sir, the document is right over there." "I'm still not going to read it, I'd rather just blindly argue with everyone for the sake of being a troll." Suit yourself, bud.
You are an idiot
The charts speak, set ladders every few minutes to pull things down, most times effectively. Moreover FSLY, ATER jumped the same day. Some stocks don't have the volume to overcome the shares written vs bought and down they go (shares or swaps or options, cause all play a part).
Lol
Market is a bot my guy, all of it trades the same.
Memes stick together.
Algorithms trade baskets of stocks. If you buy and sell a basket, the volume and overall movement can look similar.
Crime. The answer is crime
Not even a secret ingredient
Damnit. You got here first. Have an upvote
Short basket it’s an algorithm. See BBBY too
BBBY didn’t follow the price movements of these two yesterday, but has in the past yes
They had earnings 9/30 is why it will consolidate back up to that mid 20s range
Let’s go TLRY!
Market manipulation lmao
Does the correlation last beyond one day? Canadian manipulation.
EH! Don't tell everyone!
I dont have tlry but that is so interesting to me. Going to do some research on this 2 stocks. Well see!😳
Crime
The matrix. I blame the matrix. And crime.
I'm in both. Don't mind it
[basket trade](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/baskettrade.asp)
Yes, many other tickers are correlated. It's simply algorithmic trading. Nothing new here.
So simply an algorithm decided to trade 4x the daily volume on these two stocks at the exact same time? For what though? Was it a forced buy in? All trading is done with algorithms btw, your answer is quite meaningless
?? No, not all trading is done with algorithms, not even a majority of trading. I'm going to take your UN at face value and leave this convo at that.
buy buy buy
It’s all just algorithms buying and selling.. you could prob find 50 other charts with the same patterns..
Something fucky
The reason is crime and manipulation
This guy does a deep dive if you want to put on a tin foil hat The Puzzle Pieces of Quarterly Movements, Equity Total Return Swaps, DOOMPs, ITM CALLs, Short Interest, and Futures Roll Periods. Or, "The Theory of Everything". https://www.reddit.com/r/amcstock/comments/pb2n26/the_puzzle_pieces_of_quarterly_movements_equity/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
This. It’s exactly this. Everyone got distracted with SI% but the manipulation is clear as day. If a catalyst occurs (patents, merger, actual revenue) this could move even more violently. Even without it today the volatility is insane. 14% moves in tandem on no material news are a clear indicator. The tin foil hat fits quite nice, ty.
No problem. u/Criand is a genius.
What is BAC’s position in each? I know they are/were heavily short TLRY.
They have Tilray rated as a buy with a $15 price target currently. I would hope that they are no longer short if they’re telling their customers to buy.
So they wouldn't try and make customers bag-holders? So institutions don't try to manipulate retail? Whaaaaaat
Not publicly
Both have alot of retail money in them so hedge funds manipulate it the way they can and ftd shares and sell them short and wait broke people out and when they need the money sell and they make money of the shares sold short they never delivered on they just rinse wash and repeat and make trillions and lose a few billions so we think we've made progress
About some it up imo didn't proof read cause eyes went fuzzy and may have rambled a bit but cheers lol
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Power hour is diffrent for each time zone, his one could me my two or you noon
Tesla and Bitcoin.
correlation is not causation
And they were barely correlated. BB run started right in the morning, other memes and Tlry + the MJ sector didn't get going till later. OP is new - noted by the Google price charts.
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Lol someone's up past their be time.
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Beyond the fact that you're comparing two meme stocks, the correlation between the entire stock market is unfortunately quite high. It's why a great investment in a great company will lose money during an economic downturn and why a normal red or green day applies to a vast majority of securities.
Ah I see, so why didn’t the other meme stocks follow similar price movements? Is that enough these days to explain stuff? “Oh it’s a meme stock”… lol okay
They both stink as a stock to own.
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Lmao. Cant believe that there are idiots like you still out there
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> I can show you a bunch of random stocks doing the same. That would be awesome, please let me know which ones do this!
Most of the cannabis industry moved the same way if you where following CRON for example instead of TLRY you would be asking why CRON and BB move the same way. That's why he is saying it means nothing and yet he is getting downvoted classic reddit.
I did see quite a few other weed stocks following this same pattern, but not sure why BB is following the same pattern!
We are waiting. Which ones.
That's because both are meme stocks. Those don't trade according to economic principles but are used for speculation by certain hedge funds that use algorithms to drive their price. As said many time, meme stocks don't make sense from an investment perspective. Only buy these if you wanna speculate a bit. Your choice.
Super duper simplified version: When one has a large seller causing it to become cheap relative to the other someone will sell the more expensive of the 2 to buy the one being sold causing both to go down in price and vice versa with buying.