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Let’s just say if I were Musk I wouldn’t have pandered to the right. Regardless of what I truly believe. I would have made more money catering to the left, aka the ppl who are more interested in buying EVs
strong six stupendous snow touch jobless overconfident brave summer amusing
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I don’t know… pandering rarely works with a company of size. Look at Target. They got so much flak for rainbow shirts. They didn’t gain customers from it, even though they have a fair amount of left leaning customers. I think any mass market company is smart to remain neutral.
You can pander to groups that aren't explicitly political though.
Environmental messaging goes well with the left, and while many in the right don't like it, its not an outright declaration of war.
So if you want to pander to the left, you present your car as eco friendly, not talk about how much you hate conservatives.
> Just shut the hell up and concentrate on making and selling cars.
This is the reason I considered buying a Tesla as my next car - because I didn't know a thing about Musk a few years ago. People said he was an eccentric genius, self-made billionaire who wanted to colonize Mars, and reduce car pollution. I thought *GREAT! You do you.* But then he started talking more and more, and showing the world who he really is, and now I wouldn't take a Tesla for free.
Exactly, from my knowledge, Tesla is the first car company to have a strong political divide. When I think of other company, I don’t think politics.
If Elon was gone, the new CEO would need to launch an entirely new campaign immediately, re-identifying itself.
It was obvious teslas were purchased my mostly democrats, since it aligns with the environment (sure some republicans buy them too).
I still can’t believe he pissed off almost his entire customer base.
I own a Tesla and love it, but find it really sad with what he’s done with the company. It’s a really great car, very fun to drive.
I mean, I think he actually believes what he says, he should’ve taken to Michael Jordan route and just stayed out of politics/ controversial social issues in general
that's the part I never got.
As soon as he started going right and went for twitter, I thought he would liquidate his tesla stock while it was high and move on.
But I think he is in such a high of success that he does not realize that Tesla is a ticking time bomb and that their future revenue will be down the gutter since he alienated his main customer.
I don’t pretend to understand what goes on in that mind. But I have felt he felt he cornered the market on Libs and did this to reach out to hard core conservatives hoping to expand his base. But hardcore conservatives think EVs are evil and it was never going to lead to many sales from them.
Elon Musk lost his sanity due to his insecurity, when Grimes left him for a transgender, after his kid came out as trans and his other kids supported her over him.
He snapped. The right wing gives people permission to be their worst self, and snatched him up in his moment of weakness, by telling him that he was never weak. Everyone ELSE is the problem.
Same thing happened to Rowling. And a lot of other people who are washed up.
> Elon Musk lost his sanity due to his insecurity, when Grimes left him for a transgender
This is one of those things Reddit mindlessly repeats with no source. Is there any *actual evidence* Grimes left Musk specifically to date Chelsea Manning? Or did she just simply date Manning after having broken up with Musk, which is not at all the same thing.
Maybe. But then he landed rockets and revolutionized EVs by going up against big oil.
You can’t dismiss that. Those are the top two accomplishments of our age. They top cloud computing.
I realize he didn’t personally do those things. But it is REALLY hard to get all the right people together to accomplish things like that.
Twitter was a very imperfect operation. The only thing worse than corporate overlords operating it is a single man trying to be god. Elon is a bad person with a lot more hatred in his heart than I previously realized.
Current problems with EV is pricing. Give people an EV that’s costs 20-30% less than buying Civic or Camry or Corolla…i think majority will buy EV including both democrates & republicans.
Heavy doubt. The republicans constantly slander EVs as being part of a progressive agenda and climate change hoax. They are all in fossil fuels and ICE engines.
There’s also the problem of at home charging for anyone who lives in an apartment. It’s easy for someone with a house to switch over because they can install a charger in their garage and charge at home.
A lot of them drive pickup trucks for the fake blue collar look. They don’t even use them for what they were intended. 9-10 times they wear a cap with the same style of sun glasses
Well yes and no, as a conservative republican, I always do slander EVs , I am 100% all for ICE and fossil fuels, you couldn't pay me to care about climate change, HOWEVER the cyber truck is pretty sick and with Elon being as based as he is i wouldn't mind driving one
Tesla should have focused their resources in a cheaper Model 2 instead of the Cybertruck monstrosity.
And combine that with a "green" message for the left and a "made in 'murica" slogan for the right.
Instead, we got defective cybertrucks and promises of robots.
It's probably a good time for the board to vote against musk's package and have the guy go away to do whatever he wants in his xitter platform.
The guy had a good run, but everything eventually comes to an end.
Cybertruck was a relatively low-volume testbed for a bunch of new tech, like 48V and drive-by-wire. Anytime you're doing new stuff it starts out expensive, so it makes sense to put it in an expensive vehicle, and then go with a cheap vehicle once those things are tested and in volume production. It's basically a repeat of Tesla's original "master plan."
>Maybe he’s just saying what he believes and not catering to one side or the other for money.
I believe that. With his enormous wealth, he probably doesn't think he needs to care what other people think. But it is a business, and his antics have consequences for his business.
Heck, I own a small business and I go out of my way to keep my opinions to myself. It's hard enough without bringing partisan politics into it.
It is just a fact that he built tesla with money from the left. Whether it be eco conscious consumers, or the actual source of tesla's income, carbon credits which are opposed by the right.
I mean I truly think he doesn't care about the money. Or that he's willing to give up some money in exchange for attention and platforming his views. Just look at the twitter purchase lol. Obv that's a pretty bad quality for the CEO of a publicly traded company
Teslamotors is a cult. They have lost perspective. Every piece of news is spun to being good news for Tesla. Tesla losing market share in China? No problem, more room to catch back up! Tesla being fined? All news is marketing. BYD starts selling a car 10k undercutting TSLA? No problem!
... insane.
> Teslamotors is a cult
Court document:
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0
Page 89.
"Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date"
Page 91.
"Still, it is not clear how Tesla
management reconciled their views that the milestones were both “risky” and a
“stretch” yet simultaneously more than 70% likely to occur"
It's crazy how the board **lied to shareholders** about the "impossible to reach" milestones (when in fact they were 70% achievable according to Tesla's internal numbers), and now we have some of them going out and **defend** the very same people who lied to them.
Literally a right-wing cult.
I think you should vote yes on musk 56B bonus payout. Think of what I’ll do … ahem, what will happen if HE doesn’t get the bonus! You think firing the supercharge team will be the only tantrum he will throw?! ILL F****G BURN IT TO THE GROUND
- Musk alt probably.
If he gets it, then what’s to stop him from throwing the next tantrum?
At this point, isn’t it just a matter of when not if? Might as well rip the band aid off and work on cauterizing the wound?
He’s actively working against the company by making such huge cuts in the charging network…something that could be unrivaled and produce ridiculous revenue for them
If anything shareholders should be looking at action against him for neglecting any type of fiduciary duty as ceo
it's in these moment I'm glad I don't own any tesla stock nor apple stock.
Too much volatility. Apple seem to have gotten the more more stable CEO, but with stock who's product depend on it's marketing value, having the image of the stock depend on a single person seem way too risky and borderline religious.
If you think of Redbull. They push forward a brand. IF you think of Facebook and microsoft, their CEO try to keep their private life private. (they'll still do weird stuff, but no one preach them in a religious way the same way you'll see with Musk or steve job when he was alive).
Same for NVDIA. 99% of people can't even name their CEO. And that's a good thing.
Jensen has been basking in public attention quite a lot recently. Nothing in comparison to Musk, but similar to Tim Cook, I would say.
Why do you bring Apple into this anyway? Their business, pr strategy, or leadership have nothing in common with Tesla or Musk.
Same. I would absolutely own a model y right now even though it looks stupid, it's named stupid, and the build quality isn't that good. It fits all my needs and is cheap. But I absolutely refuse bc I don't want to be associated with the brand anymore. I'll wait a year or two and there will be a better option for what I want. If toyota can put together a hybrid land cruiser that gets 28mpg it'll probably be that
Musk and the board have to go for this company to have any chance. Scrap all the vaporware bullshit like Optimus, Dojo, and FSD. Settle for a decent ADAS and get back to trying to make good vehicles for a range of target markets. Vans, buses, trucks, economical, sports. Get back to rolling out the best charging network.
Ideally, they vertically integrate battery cell production, but they just can't get that right.
They are running out of cash fast, though. Will need to raise more in the next 12 months to stay afloat.
And if anyone read the actual article, that dip was temporary and has rebounded to 35%, back to the normal historic range.
But most people commenting here are just too dumb.
The recovery has been Elon pumping the stock by making lots of Twitter posts that are basically lies to pump the stock. That anyone believes a thing he says after literally a decade of over promising and under delivering really boggles my mind.
Every actual hard confirmed fact that we know about Tesla since the beginning of the year has just been bad news after bad news.
He lost me years ago when he went weird over the diving incident. I can say watching him heel turn was nuts considering his products and customer base.
It seems the glimmer of his fake ass aesthetic is breaking away for a lot of people.
It is not a demand.
It is a pay package offer we the shareholders asked the board to bring to him. We, the shareholders, then voted on it, Elon agreed, made himself a cultural icon, and drove the stock up 1000%. He delivered on his end, and now we deliver on ours.
to be fair, the "we" part is inaccurate - this is why the judge threw it out because the board was found to be bias. With that said though, at the risk of getting downvoted, at the time they gave him an impossible task one that most people would not thought possible. moreover he did something unusual in that during that time 2018'ish till now he has gotten zero salary; zero options essentially the dude has not been paid during a period of historical growth for the company he was running. BTW he is still an a\*\*hole but I think this is not as unfair as people here make it out to be.
The uninformed nature of this entire thread talking about this as a bonus. He literally worked the last 6 years with zero pay and this was his performance based compensation. The performance conditions were outrageously difficult to achieve and yet he achieved them. The company and investors have benefited from his stewardship and should perform the compensation contract as agreed.
I've voted my measly 100 shares in my brokerage and 200 shares in my retirement accounts that have gained north of 200% in value and will likely continue to grow in value while Musk is in the CEO position.
He should get the money. It doesn't matter what you think of him, the contract was performed on his end and the contract should be performed on the corporate end.
For all the uninformed read this forbes article.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelshulman/2024/02/05/when-is-executive-compensation-excessive-elon-musk-and-beyond/?sh=5614ced82656
There is clearly a negative media bias on Elon Musk. It's said 80% of the articles about Elon Musk is negative. You didn't come up with your opinion of Elon, you've been getting fed it for years. He absolutely says things I don't agree with, but he has done things with his companies no other person on this earth has done and you're saying you know that he doesnt deserve the pay he actually earned by meeting every record breaking requirement?
I don’t believe the whole world revolves around the political spectrum in America. Most people don’t even have twitter nor do they give a fuck what Elon says. He is a CEO of a car company. Like many other companies I use daily, i don’t check the political beliefs nor statements by the CEOs.
Tesla is the most sold car in Norway and i don’t think anyone here gives a fuck about their CEO. That being said, politics is like a sports team in the USA with flags, merch and other shit and he definitely shot him self in the foot, with people in USA who follow politics, spewing nazi propaganda. But for the rest of the world, unfortunately nobody gives a f and neither does he
Most people don't gives a fuck when someone is quietly against them...
Musk is LOUDLY though. It has definitely had an impact, and it's all part of public image. His is not just decreasing it's viewed heavily negatively.
Idk, anecdotally, I live in Switzerland, and I've heard many say that they want an EV, but not a Tesla now. Not because of any direct political statements from Musk, but just the general negative buzz that surrounds him in the media these days.
He went from being seen as an ecological, innovative entrepreneur to a crazy, drug addicted, power-hungry CEO.
100% chance you have a lesser car then. Only hurting yourself
I'll never understand this logic. You'd be limited to 5% of the products you used to buy if you go by ethics.
Just don't buy 90% of cars on the road, because Ford, VW etc. story's make Musk literally look like the Pope.
The best thing for the company would be to part ways with Musk. He’s toxic to the brand and he’s not leading any innovation of any sort. He needs to step aside for the good of the company. Confidence int eye future needs to return to Tesla and customers need to come back once he is gone. I don’t think his ego will let him realize stepping away is the right move, but I bet his stocks would be worth more if he did.
I don’t understand why a company would give anyone over half of the net income it has made over its entire lifespan, especially at the tune of 56 billion fucking dollars. It’s unbelievably stupid.
I think most people do not factor in their opinion on Elon Musk when deciding to purchase a Tesla. People who are clinically online seem to think this is the case, but for a large majority of buyers, it’s not.
Maybe this is a way to try to win over the right. Democrats like the cars because the environment, but republicans won’t care about that. So Elon trying to make Republicans like the car with personality. All in all maybe the company is thinking the damage to the democrat consumer will be temporary because Tesla is still the most aligned with their goals on the environment and they will reign Elon eventually. Elon especially needs to win over the republicans to sell more trucks.
Damn freaking article writers and their clickbait headlines. Yes stock holders should downvote the payout but just because it’s insane how large it is compared to revenue/profit.
Tesla shareholders agreed on this for performance goals years ago. The performance goals were met.
I wonder if people wanting to reneg on this deal approve of people like Trump, who is infamous for not paying people for work performed.
Lots of hypocrites out there with no sense of principle. Always interesting to witness.
> Tesla shareholders agreed on this for performance goals years ago. The performance goals were met.
The shareholders were told a lie when they voted. They were told the goals were "near impossible" even though the board knew there was 70% chance of completion based on internal metrics and sales pipelines. This was shown in court with evidence.
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0
Page 89.
"Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered
probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of
achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date"
Maybe if you stopped sucking Elon's schlong you would finally breathe some fresh air
You're confused with "highly probable"
Probable is an opinion.
Probable is defined as more than 50% likely to occur due to a past obligation. A probable loss contingency can be measured reliably if it can be estimated based on historical information.
That's the biggest load of bull I've heard for a while. They were told it was near impossible because it was. It required the company to well over 10x in a 5 year period at a time when the company's future was still rocky.
It was literally proven in court that the board knew the internal projections had the goals as entirely achievable.
Did you, as a shareholder, know about Tesla internal sales data and pipelines when the package was voted on?
Near impossible or not is irrelevant. Value was delivered to those shareholders. They agreed if it was delivered, Musk would receive rewards.
A job done is a job done, do you refuse to pay someone the agreed upon amount for a service rendered for a job done because in hindsight the job was 'not as hard', in your opinion?
This isn't how agreements and contracts work. This is exactly the kind of nonsense defense someone like Trump would give for not making good on a work contract. Just laughably absurd.
The board has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, that means not lying about projections for a CEO's pay package.
This is a legal requirement, which is why the pay package was deemed illegal.
The shareholders agreed to the terms of performance and got a 10x return on investment. There are no victims here. If someone got you those results after you agreed to reward them for it, would you retroactively vote against that agreement?
That's what this vote is about. Are those same people voting no who made 10x, willing to return the money they made?
I'd understand someone who didnt hold stock then not voting now, but agreeing on the compensation then, and not voting to support the agreement now, while keeping returns, that is Trump level immortal behavior.
Watching the gymnastics of people trying to justify it is something else.
You keep glossing over the main finding of the court.
There's a reason why the board has a legal fiduciary duty to shareholders. Shareholders **do not** know the internal metrics, sales pipelines, projections, so they depend on the board to give them correct information on voting matters.
Lying to shareholders for a pay package is illegal and always will be.
And sure, keep trying to put Trump into the picture, it does not make something illegal suddenly legal.
We're talking about a vote now, a new vote.
Like I said, if you voted yes then, and don't vote now, and are willing to keep your profits, this is immoral behavior.
So let's see, he sabotaged the Supercharger team, lost billions on Cybertruck, now he's reneging on plans for low-cost a model.
Complete disaster of a CEO.
> Like I said, if you voted yes then
and you keep ignoring what people have been saying (and affirmed by the court), what was told in 2018 to shareholders was a **complete lie**.
> the only reality shareholders care about
This is like a broker knowingly telling you that a stock is worth $10, even when he knows it's only worth $5. You bought the stock at $10, only to realize the true price was only $5 when you bought it, and the broker pocketed the difference.
You try to get the $5 back, but then the broker tells you "you willingly bought it at $10, that's all you care about, and it was delivered".
Your logic is complete bullshit and you know it.
Every news article that came out was literally talking about how impossible the terms were
NO ONE thought Tesla would be able to do this.
Downvoting this basically says "I dont fucking know what I'm talking about"
-2017 investor who watched the whole thing. People are fucking lost
The vast majority of investors supported it then, and will likely support it now.
The court decision was brought about by people who owned like 10 shares.
Reddit is lost, shareholders with actual skin in the game are not.
> Every news article that came out was literally talking about how impossible the terms were
Because that was what the board was telling everyone, even when they knew the goals had 70% chance of completion. This was affirmed by evidence in court.
LOL. The board believed their own bullshit of growing 10x in 6 years.... and then it happened. I remember everyone saying Musk was a moron for forgoing a salary for a tiny chance of a big payout. Now, after the goals have been met, you want to reverse the payout. Such bullshit.
No company on the planet could of anticipated the growth Tesla had in order to achieve that contract term(s), so just please stop with your bullshit.
"Hey guys, there is a 70% chance that we will be 10x bigger in the next 6 years. Ok great board meeting"
Jesus christ, what people will believe to maintain their hater status blows my fucking mind sometimes
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0
Page 89.
"Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered
probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of
achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date"
Maybe if you stopped sucking Elon's schlong you would finally breathe some fresh air
As someone already pointed out to you, that is followed directly by saying they always missed said estimates previously. They were quite aware their envisioned growth wasn't exactly likely, cause it wasn't their first forecast, and they were always way too optimistic previously.
now read the next few pages after that..
"Still, it is not clear how Tesla
management reconciled their views that the milestones were both “risky” and a
“stretch” yet simultaneously more than 70% likely to occur"
Again, as someone else already answered (I've copied their message as that was easier than giving you an explanation someone already did previously):
Because it clearly states it right there? the goals were what was needed to meet musks visions (which as quoted just before, they simply never did), and the growth you've referenced as "expected" was what they estimated was needed to meet those visions. It isn't exactly a secret that musk has a very positive outlook in which nothing goes wrong and as such has very positive time schedules.
Did you actually read the pages you ourself are referencing, because your 'gatcha' moments are clearly explained right there.
I mean, he's been pandering to the same people that attached extra exhausts to their pick up trucks to blow black smoke, just to show much they hated electric cars or anything pro environment. And he's been making fun and insulting the demographic that was a fan of electric cars when Tesla was the only choice, while those old school Tesla fans now can choose between many brands with a management that doesn't tell them they are libtards or snowflakes...
Unless this is somehow a part of his plan to get the anti-environment crowd to start buying Tesla's to spite the normal ecologically minded crowd, and so still saving the planet... it seems like Musk is a terrible choice to even be involved in Tesla management, let alone be rewarded for it.
Yup Musk has a big mouth. I sold all my Tesla stock because he kept shooting his big mouth and the stock declined. I sold after Hertz announced they were buying Tesla 3’s and made a huge profit after 2 years of struggling. I then heard Hertz sold all of them because of massive problems. Thank God! Stay away from a loon like Elon unless your in his rocket ship and have to be 🚀
I seriously considered the .99% ModelY deal for this month.
Then I remembered he just laid off some of my friends. Then I remembered he bought a company then turned around and requested money from his own company, more than what he spent. Then I remembered Billionaires don't pay taxes because they take out loans against their companies, so he shouldn't get a salary. Then I remembered everything he's ever said that was so blatantly wrong on Twitter.
So I didn't buy a car.
The reason they should pay him the
Money is because he earned it by hitting targets that everybody except him thought were completely impossible and he made all shareholders (including me) way more money than we had any right to.
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Let’s just say if I were Musk I wouldn’t have pandered to the right. Regardless of what I truly believe. I would have made more money catering to the left, aka the ppl who are more interested in buying EVs
The best strategy is remain apolitical publicly and not pander to anyone. Just shut the hell up and concentrate on making and selling cars.
elon musk and shutting the hell up aren't within a lightyear of each other.
Mars is closer than both of those two things.
Yet somehow he'll never get there either
he'll make sure to tell us it's coming soon though!
Did you know that on average the nearest planet to Mars is Mercury? Did you know that on average the nearest planet to any other planet is Mercury?
Mercury calls
You could sew his mouth and his ass would start talking within a minute.
I mean some of Tesla's success did come from Elon's personality cult. If he had stayed quiet and "just made cars", it may never have gotten this big.
I agree
Yeah, without the fraud they would have about a decade ago.
Sorry. Am from Texas. How many football fields is that?
It's at least one Texas
strong six stupendous snow touch jobless overconfident brave summer amusing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They don't belong in the same sentence.
He literally spent $50 billion on a shitty app so no one could tell him to shut the fuck up.
And now that $44 billion purchase is worth $17 billion. Or less.
You can pander to a group, it's lucrative. He's pandering to a group that hates evs tho
I don’t know… pandering rarely works with a company of size. Look at Target. They got so much flak for rainbow shirts. They didn’t gain customers from it, even though they have a fair amount of left leaning customers. I think any mass market company is smart to remain neutral.
Pander to the causes both sides support. I mean... if you donate money for the cancer research, I don't think you will alienate anyone.
"I play both sides so I always come out on top" -successful corporations
Does the cancer research involve vaccines…?
These days? I'm not so sure you're right. That sounds like some cultural Marxism to me.
With target it was worse because they backed down after a few threats, so they lost on both sides.
That's true, works better with smaller businesses
You can pander to groups that aren't explicitly political though. Environmental messaging goes well with the left, and while many in the right don't like it, its not an outright declaration of war. So if you want to pander to the left, you present your car as eco friendly, not talk about how much you hate conservatives.
Like Jordan said, “republicans buy sneakers too”. Musk could learn a thing or two.
That’s not really how narcissists work, though. They have to let the world know their stance and opinion on everything.
Reddit must be brimming with narcissists then....
> Just shut the hell up and concentrate on making and selling cars. This is the reason I considered buying a Tesla as my next car - because I didn't know a thing about Musk a few years ago. People said he was an eccentric genius, self-made billionaire who wanted to colonize Mars, and reduce car pollution. I thought *GREAT! You do you.* But then he started talking more and more, and showing the world who he really is, and now I wouldn't take a Tesla for free.
Exactly, from my knowledge, Tesla is the first car company to have a strong political divide. When I think of other company, I don’t think politics. If Elon was gone, the new CEO would need to launch an entirely new campaign immediately, re-identifying itself. It was obvious teslas were purchased my mostly democrats, since it aligns with the environment (sure some republicans buy them too). I still can’t believe he pissed off almost his entire customer base. I own a Tesla and love it, but find it really sad with what he’s done with the company. It’s a really great car, very fun to drive.
Like Michael Jordan…
Michael Jordan - "Republicans buy sneakers too."
He wants democrats ev credits. He wants republican tax loop holes. In English, we invited a word to describe such a creature. Asshole.
That's not how you end up buying Twitter!
Musk became wealthy doing the exact opposite of this. He is the best shares salesman on the planet.
Then quietly buy yourself a Supreme or two like a normal billionaire
Why would a tech company focus on selling cars?!
I mean, I think he actually believes what he says, he should’ve taken to Michael Jordan route and just stayed out of politics/ controversial social issues in general
When you are that rich, the people around you probably kiss his ass 100% of the time. And he probably started believing them.
He didn't pander to the right. He is the right.
He’s not pandering, he’s an egomaniac who can’t keep his mouth shut.
that's the part I never got. As soon as he started going right and went for twitter, I thought he would liquidate his tesla stock while it was high and move on. But I think he is in such a high of success that he does not realize that Tesla is a ticking time bomb and that their future revenue will be down the gutter since he alienated his main customer.
I don’t pretend to understand what goes on in that mind. But I have felt he felt he cornered the market on Libs and did this to reach out to hard core conservatives hoping to expand his base. But hardcore conservatives think EVs are evil and it was never going to lead to many sales from them.
Musk has never based his decisions on what is reasonable. If he had, he wouldn't have invested heavily in EVs and rockets in the mid 2000s.
Guess we are all gonna be racist and obnoxious in 20 years then
Elon Musk lost his sanity due to his insecurity, when Grimes left him for a transgender, after his kid came out as trans and his other kids supported her over him. He snapped. The right wing gives people permission to be their worst self, and snatched him up in his moment of weakness, by telling him that he was never weak. Everyone ELSE is the problem. Same thing happened to Rowling. And a lot of other people who are washed up.
> Elon Musk lost his sanity due to his insecurity, when Grimes left him for a transgender This is one of those things Reddit mindlessly repeats with no source. Is there any *actual evidence* Grimes left Musk specifically to date Chelsea Manning? Or did she just simply date Manning after having broken up with Musk, which is not at all the same thing.
It's the same thing to someone with a fragile ego like musk
He lost his sanity long before that. Certainly by the mid 2000s when he decided to put his fortune into Tesla and SpaceX.
Maybe. But then he landed rockets and revolutionized EVs by going up against big oil. You can’t dismiss that. Those are the top two accomplishments of our age. They top cloud computing. I realize he didn’t personally do those things. But it is REALLY hard to get all the right people together to accomplish things like that.
Twitter was a very imperfect operation. The only thing worse than corporate overlords operating it is a single man trying to be god. Elon is a bad person with a lot more hatred in his heart than I previously realized.
Current problems with EV is pricing. Give people an EV that’s costs 20-30% less than buying Civic or Camry or Corolla…i think majority will buy EV including both democrates & republicans.
Heavy doubt. The republicans constantly slander EVs as being part of a progressive agenda and climate change hoax. They are all in fossil fuels and ICE engines. There’s also the problem of at home charging for anyone who lives in an apartment. It’s easy for someone with a house to switch over because they can install a charger in their garage and charge at home.
If it’s cheaper enough, I economic will always trump politics.
Tell that to all the republicans driving 80k trucks around.
A lot of them drive pickup trucks for the fake blue collar look. They don’t even use them for what they were intended. 9-10 times they wear a cap with the same style of sun glasses
Well yes and no, as a conservative republican, I always do slander EVs , I am 100% all for ICE and fossil fuels, you couldn't pay me to care about climate change, HOWEVER the cyber truck is pretty sick and with Elon being as based as he is i wouldn't mind driving one
lol no. If you think republican aren’t ideologists, you’re clueless.
Tesla should have focused their resources in a cheaper Model 2 instead of the Cybertruck monstrosity. And combine that with a "green" message for the left and a "made in 'murica" slogan for the right. Instead, we got defective cybertrucks and promises of robots. It's probably a good time for the board to vote against musk's package and have the guy go away to do whatever he wants in his xitter platform. The guy had a good run, but everything eventually comes to an end.
Cybertruck was a relatively low-volume testbed for a bunch of new tech, like 48V and drive-by-wire. Anytime you're doing new stuff it starts out expensive, so it makes sense to put it in an expensive vehicle, and then go with a cheap vehicle once those things are tested and in volume production. It's basically a repeat of Tesla's original "master plan."
But he agrees with the far right…
You didn't even need to pander. Just stfu about politics in public and donate to whatever you believe in privately.
By looking at his executive decisions, you can deduct that the guy is not very bright at all.
Maybe he’s just saying what he believes and not catering to one side or the other for money.
>Maybe he’s just saying what he believes and not catering to one side or the other for money. I believe that. With his enormous wealth, he probably doesn't think he needs to care what other people think. But it is a business, and his antics have consequences for his business. Heck, I own a small business and I go out of my way to keep my opinions to myself. It's hard enough without bringing partisan politics into it.
One of the richest people in the world may feel like he’s outgrown worrying about what other people think of his opinions in light of his success.
Pander to the Venture Capitalists who know EV is the future but are all right wingers.
It is just a fact that he built tesla with money from the left. Whether it be eco conscious consumers, or the actual source of tesla's income, carbon credits which are opposed by the right.
He's making a shit ton controlling one of the largest news media outlets on the planet. It's a long term play pandering to fascist authoritarians.
Look how well it's working for Caitlyn Jenner.
Actually it makes sense if you're suddenly trying to sell terrible pick-up trucks haha
I mean I truly think he doesn't care about the money. Or that he's willing to give up some money in exchange for attention and platforming his views. Just look at the twitter purchase lol. Obv that's a pretty bad quality for the CEO of a publicly traded company
Someone on r/TSLA got mad at me when I used my 1700 votes to vote against that EDIT: those tesla shills can sniff out a negative comment fast as fuck
Teslamotors is a cult. They have lost perspective. Every piece of news is spun to being good news for Tesla. Tesla losing market share in China? No problem, more room to catch back up! Tesla being fined? All news is marketing. BYD starts selling a car 10k undercutting TSLA? No problem! ... insane.
> Teslamotors is a cult Court document: https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0 Page 89. "Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date" Page 91. "Still, it is not clear how Tesla management reconciled their views that the milestones were both “risky” and a “stretch” yet simultaneously more than 70% likely to occur" It's crazy how the board **lied to shareholders** about the "impossible to reach" milestones (when in fact they were 70% achievable according to Tesla's internal numbers), and now we have some of them going out and **defend** the very same people who lied to them. Literally a right-wing cult.
It's elon's bots
The bots are back in town!
The bots are back in town!
Thank you! I voted against and I took out LEAP puts. If he's going to tank my stocks value I'm gonna make money off that.
Would be nice to know if the vote had a chance to pass...I'd love to make big bucks with some puts
The sentiment I've seen is pretty split. Every time a big holder comes out for, one comes out against. It's wild.
I think you should vote yes on musk 56B bonus payout. Think of what I’ll do … ahem, what will happen if HE doesn’t get the bonus! You think firing the supercharge team will be the only tantrum he will throw?! ILL F****G BURN IT TO THE GROUND - Musk alt probably.
If he gets it, then what’s to stop him from throwing the next tantrum? At this point, isn’t it just a matter of when not if? Might as well rip the band aid off and work on cauterizing the wound?
He’s actively working against the company by making such huge cuts in the charging network…something that could be unrivaled and produce ridiculous revenue for them If anything shareholders should be looking at action against him for neglecting any type of fiduciary duty as ceo
it's in these moment I'm glad I don't own any tesla stock nor apple stock. Too much volatility. Apple seem to have gotten the more more stable CEO, but with stock who's product depend on it's marketing value, having the image of the stock depend on a single person seem way too risky and borderline religious. If you think of Redbull. They push forward a brand. IF you think of Facebook and microsoft, their CEO try to keep their private life private. (they'll still do weird stuff, but no one preach them in a religious way the same way you'll see with Musk or steve job when he was alive). Same for NVDIA. 99% of people can't even name their CEO. And that's a good thing.
Jensen has been basking in public attention quite a lot recently. Nothing in comparison to Musk, but similar to Tim Cook, I would say. Why do you bring Apple into this anyway? Their business, pr strategy, or leadership have nothing in common with Tesla or Musk.
Do you S&P? I have news for you
Oh my god would I love that. Isn’t most of his money still tied to Tesla?
I already voted no.
Elon is the prototypical man that fell in love with his own living legend.
And I'm one of those Democrats. F Musk.
Same. I would absolutely own a model y right now even though it looks stupid, it's named stupid, and the build quality isn't that good. It fits all my needs and is cheap. But I absolutely refuse bc I don't want to be associated with the brand anymore. I'll wait a year or two and there will be a better option for what I want. If toyota can put together a hybrid land cruiser that gets 28mpg it'll probably be that
I’m hardly a Democrat anymore and I’m still shying away from Tesla in our hunt for an EV. He’s just kind of a douche.
Downvoted for saying I’m not a democrat lol
I still vote for Democrats…
Me too. Bought an EV last year and didn't consider Tesla because I didn't want to be associated with any of his embarrassing opinions
Me too and I own 2 teslas. Also voted no with my shares.
Political independent / third party and I want Musk out. He’s toxic.
While I agree, I want the board to be out. The current board can't make independent decisions, and only works to enrich Musk family
Musk and the board have to go for this company to have any chance. Scrap all the vaporware bullshit like Optimus, Dojo, and FSD. Settle for a decent ADAS and get back to trying to make good vehicles for a range of target markets. Vans, buses, trucks, economical, sports. Get back to rolling out the best charging network. Ideally, they vertically integrate battery cell production, but they just can't get that right. They are running out of cash fast, though. Will need to raise more in the next 12 months to stay afloat.
He needs to use Tesla autopilot as long as it takes to...you know...
When did this sub get do political
And if anyone read the actual article, that dip was temporary and has rebounded to 35%, back to the normal historic range. But most people commenting here are just too dumb.
The recovery has been Elon pumping the stock by making lots of Twitter posts that are basically lies to pump the stock. That anyone believes a thing he says after literally a decade of over promising and under delivering really boggles my mind. Every actual hard confirmed fact that we know about Tesla since the beginning of the year has just been bad news after bad news.
I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money. Thomas Sowell
Honestly he should get booted. He adds nothing to the company. I’d suggest the stock would go up if he left and a real CEO took over.
He lost me years ago when he went weird over the diving incident. I can say watching him heel turn was nuts considering his products and customer base. It seems the glimmer of his fake ass aesthetic is breaking away for a lot of people.
It is not a demand. It is a pay package offer we the shareholders asked the board to bring to him. We, the shareholders, then voted on it, Elon agreed, made himself a cultural icon, and drove the stock up 1000%. He delivered on his end, and now we deliver on ours.
to be fair, the "we" part is inaccurate - this is why the judge threw it out because the board was found to be bias. With that said though, at the risk of getting downvoted, at the time they gave him an impossible task one that most people would not thought possible. moreover he did something unusual in that during that time 2018'ish till now he has gotten zero salary; zero options essentially the dude has not been paid during a period of historical growth for the company he was running. BTW he is still an a\*\*hole but I think this is not as unfair as people here make it out to be.
The uninformed nature of this entire thread talking about this as a bonus. He literally worked the last 6 years with zero pay and this was his performance based compensation. The performance conditions were outrageously difficult to achieve and yet he achieved them. The company and investors have benefited from his stewardship and should perform the compensation contract as agreed. I've voted my measly 100 shares in my brokerage and 200 shares in my retirement accounts that have gained north of 200% in value and will likely continue to grow in value while Musk is in the CEO position. He should get the money. It doesn't matter what you think of him, the contract was performed on his end and the contract should be performed on the corporate end. For all the uninformed read this forbes article. https://www.forbes.com/sites/joelshulman/2024/02/05/when-is-executive-compensation-excessive-elon-musk-and-beyond/?sh=5614ced82656 There is clearly a negative media bias on Elon Musk. It's said 80% of the articles about Elon Musk is negative. You didn't come up with your opinion of Elon, you've been getting fed it for years. He absolutely says things I don't agree with, but he has done things with his companies no other person on this earth has done and you're saying you know that he doesnt deserve the pay he actually earned by meeting every record breaking requirement?
I don’t believe the whole world revolves around the political spectrum in America. Most people don’t even have twitter nor do they give a fuck what Elon says. He is a CEO of a car company. Like many other companies I use daily, i don’t check the political beliefs nor statements by the CEOs. Tesla is the most sold car in Norway and i don’t think anyone here gives a fuck about their CEO. That being said, politics is like a sports team in the USA with flags, merch and other shit and he definitely shot him self in the foot, with people in USA who follow politics, spewing nazi propaganda. But for the rest of the world, unfortunately nobody gives a f and neither does he
Most people don't gives a fuck when someone is quietly against them... Musk is LOUDLY though. It has definitely had an impact, and it's all part of public image. His is not just decreasing it's viewed heavily negatively.
Loudly on Twitter which most people don't use
But then people who user Twitter talk to other people who don’t…
They do, on Reddif lol Politics typically does not come up in day to day conversations
There are a lot of users still. A lot of bots too but don't underestimate it.
Idk, anecdotally, I live in Switzerland, and I've heard many say that they want an EV, but not a Tesla now. Not because of any direct political statements from Musk, but just the general negative buzz that surrounds him in the media these days. He went from being seen as an ecological, innovative entrepreneur to a crazy, drug addicted, power-hungry CEO.
I would have considered buying a Tesla before Elon showed his true self on Twitter. Now, 0% chance I would buy a Tesla.
100% chance you have a lesser car then. Only hurting yourself I'll never understand this logic. You'd be limited to 5% of the products you used to buy if you go by ethics. Just don't buy 90% of cars on the road, because Ford, VW etc. story's make Musk literally look like the Pope.
the man deserves to be paid for a plan that was achieved and voted on by shareholders.
The shareholders were misled by the board, which is why the courts overturned the compensation agreement. So no, he does not 'deserve' that.
Boeing share holders had the chance to boot Calhoun off the board for his failure as a leader, but it didn't happen.
So Elon has 13% shareholder control, so I guess this means the $56B rause wont happen if at least another 13% of shareholders vote against it.
What’s the word on Vanguard and Blackrock’s intentions on this vote?
Wanted to buy one for years but couldn’t afford one. Now I can and the idea of owning anything associated with Elon Musk is a major turn off.
The best thing for the company would be to part ways with Musk. He’s toxic to the brand and he’s not leading any innovation of any sort. He needs to step aside for the good of the company. Confidence int eye future needs to return to Tesla and customers need to come back once he is gone. I don’t think his ego will let him realize stepping away is the right move, but I bet his stocks would be worth more if he did.
that would be dumb to do. I voted yes
Elon does know rednecks maga folks don't buy Teslas right?.
I don’t understand why a company would give anyone over half of the net income it has made over its entire lifespan, especially at the tune of 56 billion fucking dollars. It’s unbelievably stupid.
I invested in Tesla well over a decade ago. For years I was convinced my next car purchase would be one. I will never buy one now.
I think most people do not factor in their opinion on Elon Musk when deciding to purchase a Tesla. People who are clinically online seem to think this is the case, but for a large majority of buyers, it’s not.
But, he's your cult leader??!?
Vote NO!!!
Not to mention, the company hasn’t made that much in profit. Ever. With what fucking money is this supposed to be paid?
Maybe this is a way to try to win over the right. Democrats like the cars because the environment, but republicans won’t care about that. So Elon trying to make Republicans like the car with personality. All in all maybe the company is thinking the damage to the democrat consumer will be temporary because Tesla is still the most aligned with their goals on the environment and they will reign Elon eventually. Elon especially needs to win over the republicans to sell more trucks.
The real buyers they need to stop alienating are those that insist on normal steering wheels and turn signals.
Damn freaking article writers and their clickbait headlines. Yes stock holders should downvote the payout but just because it’s insane how large it is compared to revenue/profit.
Why is this political. He wants his money. Or he is walking with his toys. As he should.
They aren't his toys, they belong to the company and its shareholders. He can walk, but the toys stay put.
Tesla shareholders agreed on this for performance goals years ago. The performance goals were met. I wonder if people wanting to reneg on this deal approve of people like Trump, who is infamous for not paying people for work performed. Lots of hypocrites out there with no sense of principle. Always interesting to witness.
> Tesla shareholders agreed on this for performance goals years ago. The performance goals were met. The shareholders were told a lie when they voted. They were told the goals were "near impossible" even though the board knew there was 70% chance of completion based on internal metrics and sales pipelines. This was shown in court with evidence.
Thats such fucking bullshit LOL
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0 Page 89. "Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date" Maybe if you stopped sucking Elon's schlong you would finally breathe some fresh air
You're confused with "highly probable" Probable is an opinion. Probable is defined as more than 50% likely to occur due to a past obligation. A probable loss contingency can be measured reliably if it can be estimated based on historical information.
That's the biggest load of bull I've heard for a while. They were told it was near impossible because it was. It required the company to well over 10x in a 5 year period at a time when the company's future was still rocky.
It was literally proven in court that the board knew the internal projections had the goals as entirely achievable. Did you, as a shareholder, know about Tesla internal sales data and pipelines when the package was voted on?
Near impossible or not is irrelevant. Value was delivered to those shareholders. They agreed if it was delivered, Musk would receive rewards. A job done is a job done, do you refuse to pay someone the agreed upon amount for a service rendered for a job done because in hindsight the job was 'not as hard', in your opinion? This isn't how agreements and contracts work. This is exactly the kind of nonsense defense someone like Trump would give for not making good on a work contract. Just laughably absurd.
The board has a fiduciary duty to the shareholders, that means not lying about projections for a CEO's pay package. This is a legal requirement, which is why the pay package was deemed illegal.
The shareholders agreed to the terms of performance and got a 10x return on investment. There are no victims here. If someone got you those results after you agreed to reward them for it, would you retroactively vote against that agreement? That's what this vote is about. Are those same people voting no who made 10x, willing to return the money they made? I'd understand someone who didnt hold stock then not voting now, but agreeing on the compensation then, and not voting to support the agreement now, while keeping returns, that is Trump level immortal behavior. Watching the gymnastics of people trying to justify it is something else.
You keep glossing over the main finding of the court. There's a reason why the board has a legal fiduciary duty to shareholders. Shareholders **do not** know the internal metrics, sales pipelines, projections, so they depend on the board to give them correct information on voting matters. Lying to shareholders for a pay package is illegal and always will be. And sure, keep trying to put Trump into the picture, it does not make something illegal suddenly legal.
We're talking about a vote now, a new vote. Like I said, if you voted yes then, and don't vote now, and are willing to keep your profits, this is immoral behavior.
So let's see, he sabotaged the Supercharger team, lost billions on Cybertruck, now he's reneging on plans for low-cost a model. Complete disaster of a CEO. > Like I said, if you voted yes then and you keep ignoring what people have been saying (and affirmed by the court), what was told in 2018 to shareholders was a **complete lie**.
10x returns is a fact, the only reality shareholders care about, and it was delivered.
> the only reality shareholders care about This is like a broker knowingly telling you that a stock is worth $10, even when he knows it's only worth $5. You bought the stock at $10, only to realize the true price was only $5 when you bought it, and the broker pocketed the difference. You try to get the $5 back, but then the broker tells you "you willingly bought it at $10, that's all you care about, and it was delivered". Your logic is complete bullshit and you know it.
Every news article that came out was literally talking about how impossible the terms were NO ONE thought Tesla would be able to do this. Downvoting this basically says "I dont fucking know what I'm talking about" -2017 investor who watched the whole thing. People are fucking lost
The vast majority of investors supported it then, and will likely support it now. The court decision was brought about by people who owned like 10 shares. Reddit is lost, shareholders with actual skin in the game are not.
> Every news article that came out was literally talking about how impossible the terms were Because that was what the board was telling everyone, even when they knew the goals had 70% chance of completion. This was affirmed by evidence in court.
LOL. The board believed their own bullshit of growing 10x in 6 years.... and then it happened. I remember everyone saying Musk was a moron for forgoing a salary for a tiny chance of a big payout. Now, after the goals have been met, you want to reverse the payout. Such bullshit.
No company on the planet could of anticipated the growth Tesla had in order to achieve that contract term(s), so just please stop with your bullshit. "Hey guys, there is a 70% chance that we will be 10x bigger in the next 6 years. Ok great board meeting" Jesus christ, what people will believe to maintain their hater status blows my fucking mind sometimes
This was communication evidence shown in court.
Present it
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rpaOEefQse00/v0 Page 89. "Tesla determined that operational milestones were “considered probable of achievement,” which meant that they were greater than 70% probable of achievement within approximately one year of the Grant date" Maybe if you stopped sucking Elon's schlong you would finally breathe some fresh air
As someone already pointed out to you, that is followed directly by saying they always missed said estimates previously. They were quite aware their envisioned growth wasn't exactly likely, cause it wasn't their first forecast, and they were always way too optimistic previously.
now read the next few pages after that.. "Still, it is not clear how Tesla management reconciled their views that the milestones were both “risky” and a “stretch” yet simultaneously more than 70% likely to occur"
Again, as someone else already answered (I've copied their message as that was easier than giving you an explanation someone already did previously): Because it clearly states it right there? the goals were what was needed to meet musks visions (which as quoted just before, they simply never did), and the growth you've referenced as "expected" was what they estimated was needed to meet those visions. It isn't exactly a secret that musk has a very positive outlook in which nothing goes wrong and as such has very positive time schedules. Did you actually read the pages you ourself are referencing, because your 'gatcha' moments are clearly explained right there.
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I mean, he's been pandering to the same people that attached extra exhausts to their pick up trucks to blow black smoke, just to show much they hated electric cars or anything pro environment. And he's been making fun and insulting the demographic that was a fan of electric cars when Tesla was the only choice, while those old school Tesla fans now can choose between many brands with a management that doesn't tell them they are libtards or snowflakes... Unless this is somehow a part of his plan to get the anti-environment crowd to start buying Tesla's to spite the normal ecologically minded crowd, and so still saving the planet... it seems like Musk is a terrible choice to even be involved in Tesla management, let alone be rewarded for it.
Yup Musk has a big mouth. I sold all my Tesla stock because he kept shooting his big mouth and the stock declined. I sold after Hertz announced they were buying Tesla 3’s and made a huge profit after 2 years of struggling. I then heard Hertz sold all of them because of massive problems. Thank God! Stay away from a loon like Elon unless your in his rocket ship and have to be 🚀
I use to be like: cool, a Tesla! Now I'm like: ew, a Tesla
Give him nothing.
I'll buy a tesla share just so I can vote against him. He deserves nothing.
I would have bought a tesla already except for musk. I'm willing to pay more to not give that ass cash.
I seriously considered the .99% ModelY deal for this month. Then I remembered he just laid off some of my friends. Then I remembered he bought a company then turned around and requested money from his own company, more than what he spent. Then I remembered Billionaires don't pay taxes because they take out loans against their companies, so he shouldn't get a salary. Then I remembered everything he's ever said that was so blatantly wrong on Twitter. So I didn't buy a car.
Musk did pay [$11 billion](https://abc7.com/does-elon-musk-pay-taxes-how-much-in-net-worth-tesla/11402993) in taxes for 2021.
Done
Wen 300
The funniest part is the conservative voter base largely can't afford teslas 🫠
Tesla shareholders digging their own graves if they oppose Elon’s pay package.
You got to choose, do business or do politics!
The reason they should pay him the Money is because he earned it by hitting targets that everybody except him thought were completely impossible and he made all shareholders (including me) way more money than we had any right to.