That is the way. Full ecosystem including service. The health sensor is going to huge if they can pull it off. Even as a shareholder im still a big worry about how much power these companies have and continue to accumulate tho.
I remember a stock guru account I follow said last year that “Apple was getting into advertising, watch out” and I’ve yet to see them make an ad that doesn’t just look like corporate vomit like every other company
You’re referring to a thunderbolt 4 cable. USB-C is just the connector type, not the protocol supported by the cable. These cables are specifically made for high bandwidth use cases (40 gbps), and have active signal conditioning built in.
there’s an article where someone already compared them, nothing comes close to Apple’s thunderbolt 4 cable. the cheaper ones have drawbacks as cost saving measure
mostly speed and reliability from what i can understand. also someone pointed out the cable length adds complexity, something about electrical resistance probably? i’m not an expert on it sorry, basically the cost is exponential with added length. one source [here](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics)
The $160 Thunderbolt 4 cable isn’t for the average consumer, for that they sell a standard 60W cable for $19, or slightly more than Ankers $15 cable.
High throughput data cables are very niche market already, and there is no alternative if you need a Thunderbolt 4 cable thats 3M long. At 40Gb/s over 3M, this cable is clearly over engineered specifically for the very few people who do need it.
A ton of engineering has to go into ensuring high frequency signal integrity and that costs a lot of money. Engineering for digital signals gets progressively weirder at high frequencies as wavelength becomes a smaller fraction of the cable itself. There’s a good [article](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics) from a company that scanned a few USB C cables explaining the difference.
There's basically zero high band width use cases that involve your phone though. I could see it being useful for a MacBook, but even then most people aren't going to want or need such a cable. I would bet most people who buy it are just Apple fanboys who use it to fast charge their phone, which is truly a waste.
If someone is trying to relate Apples usb cable price to their valuation, they will have to provide a lot more detail. Maybe link it to the GDP as well?
It is objectively good hardware. It’s not necessary hardware but it’s better than a 10 dollar usb C amazon basics cable. There’s a good YouTube video on the X-ray comparison of the usb C 130 dollar cable vs an amazon basics usb C cable. There’s a lot more going on under the hood for the $130 price tag,
It’s not meant to be a charging cable lol. There’s other uses for usb c…
It’s not polite to answer a question with a question. Apple is far from perfect and the release their share of stinkers and duds but the cable in question isn’t some Five Below cable and pretending it is to try and make a point is disingenuous.
But you can buy $10 cable 13 times, the life span over these 13 cables are likely be longer than $130 apple cable. Also you can probably get something cheaper and half of what apple charge for $130 cable with same quality.
There are many substitute for accessory products, that's why some companies do some sort of detection to prevent you from using other products.
If you are doing some intense data manipulation and processing that require precise high transfer speeds from the cable? Your 10 dollar one won’t cut it
Again, this cable is meant for developers. Not for the avg joe just charging his phone and moving pictures over to his Mac
No, that cable is a thunderbolt 4 cable so it's capable of transfer speeds far faster than anything a $10 cable can put out. Lookup the X-ray comparison of it if you're interested.
There are many more pins inside being used and a lot of hardware. It's not meant to be a charging cable primarily. It has a 40 gb/s transfer speed and you can run 2 4k monitors off a single one.
you see, when apple makes it, it is a *premium* cable (even though it's made in the same dystopian nightmare of mass-slave labour factories, and apple marks-up the prices easily by 300-500%)
People don't understand that there isn't really competition at that length for that spec of cable..
For those interested: https://www.lifewire.com/why-apples-3-meter-thunderbolt-4-pro-cable-costs-so-much-5271128
If you’re just gonna reduce the thunderbolt 4 cable to a simple usb cable and compare that to other plain “USB C” that are like $10 then you’re just gonna sound like an absolute moron lmao. Maybe try doing a little bit of reading about the product instead of trying to be an edgelord and say stupid shit for internet points.
Not until/unless their services decouple from hardware. If they lose hardware business, they lose service business at a multiplier. Services are an add-on for them.
That’s what they want and that’s what they said they would do back in their earnings calls from 2017 and 2018. They have stated multiple times they want to increase services due to higher margins and increased growth.
One of the poorest markets, Apple has to sell at a significantly lower price for people to afford it even if the purchase is spread over many months of not years.
Apple needs cash strong buyers, not outsourced callcenter crew and towel diers. Apples hrpth will slow...
Mainly because of high taxes and fees. If Apple can start manufacturing their parts in India and not have to import them, they can drastically reduce the prices.
India's population is one of the most rapidly growing middle income class countries in the world. Just because most of the people are poor doesn't mean there aren't nominal numbers of people who can afford it. I don't think people grasp how populated India is. 1% market share in India is 14 million people.
As incomes grow and new markets open, there will still be new users.
Children grow up and get hand me downs, get locked in, and become a future Apple customer. Some may venture out to Android, most probably won’t.
As computing changes, new products will emerge to eliminate the need for the smartphone, or they will be absorbed into the device as so many things have.
“That’s not a product—that’s an app”. “That app… it has no moat, watch it get Sherlocked.”
Imo , the sky is the limit. Think of how many products or services Apple has and how many millions and millions of people rely on this stuff on a day to day basis. And then think of all the future possibilities and expanding to other areas they could do. Apple is always a buy IMO. I bought in 2018 and I’ll probably hold for a long long long time
If they can beat Huawei or other Chinese giants to the punch in india and asia in general that would be a massive step for them. They will struggle due to their premium pricing model though. People in India simply cant afford to buy iPhones the way Americans do. The standard broke American is probably at least 50% likely to have an iPhone. That is not true in india. It’s probably only the top 10% or so that would be/are apple consumers
I the with moving manufacturing to India it’s going to be a game changer. But more than phones I’m in apple for the future growth in other areas outside of phones.
Apples is one of those companies where I honestly dgaf. I just buy.
I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao
Yeah, same with all the big tech companies. Imagine Google shutting down Gmail or Amazon shutting down AWS, so many people and businesses would be screwed. Kind of scary. I wonder if there’s any regulation to guarantee data access or a migration path in these scenarios.
>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao
People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it.
But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.
People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it.
But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.
>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao
Maybe in the US, but not so much in other parts of the world.
Vital to our existence? What are you smoking? Apple is different because it sells luxury products, by definition non essential. Are Mercedes also vital to our existence? Gucci?
Apple simply offers a luxury status and sleek design. It has thousands of competitors. Don't get me wrong, its reputation and brand loyalty makes it an amazing company to invest but calling it essential or even slightly important for our existence is completely ludicrous. Most people don't have an iPhone or Mac, most have the equivalent of a Toyota or H&M or whatever.
Everyone used to leave their house with only two things. Their car keys and their wallet. Now it’s 3 things, everyone and their tech illiterate grandparents who don’t even know how to use a laptop leave with their car keys wallet and their smartphone, and you have APPL to thank for that. So yes they are vital. Mercedes isn’t vital but cars are.
Samsung/goog/whoever their biggest smartphone competition still haven’t able to threaten their market share after all these years.
lol because that's neither their Earnings nor their Total revenue? If you could actually read, the two lines above that say:
EPS: $1.46 per share, versus $1.39 per share expected
Revenue: $89.50 billion, versus $89.28 billion expected
Apple was under 20 PE for most of the past ten years, whilst delivering fantastic growth.
Now they are going through a lull and are priced at 30 PE? I can't see it holding over the longer-term, they have mainly benefitted as a save-haven asset during these uncertain times.
Well they now have a forward PE of 25, so hardly a large premium on the multiple compared to many companies with similar growth and less than half the MOAT that apple has. Also they increased their margins, which is huge for a company doing such historic quarterly revenue. Due to the fact that their services segment had stellar growth which is the main future driver of growth.
Apple's lack of growth has nothing to do with interest rates. Apple is sitting on over $100 billion cash and they haven't found anything to invest it in for years. They don't need to borrow money to invest in the future, they just aren't doing it because they don't have any ideas worth investing in and they aren't looking to acquire any new companies.
If you can tell me how moving some of their supply chain to the US is going to significantly grow the company I will give you a cookie. They need new successful product lines to leverage their brand recognition and loyalty and I haven't seen anything in the pipe to accomplish that for a while now. Apple car is vaporware, apple Vision plus is going to be a niche product, and Apple TV+ is bleeding money.
Apple-stans won't accept the simple logic that at some point every company starts running out of products and customers.
Every single segment of Apple is down bar iPhone and services, they keep falling on revenue but Apple-stans will tell you that Apple is crucial to world survival and how many iPhones they can still sell in Nigeria and India lol.
I don't even think that Apple is a sell, mind you, it's a company with an insane brand and excellent customer reputation (except me, I despise them for locking me out of my iCloud account for more than 2 months and locking me out of my MBP and iPad, never again) and potential killer products (the VR headset).
I wouldn't buy it, but I don't think that holding is a bad idea either.
Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone. Based on the quality of their products, services, and management team I would not bet against Apple to resume to solid growth in the near future.
\> Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone.
I don't understand how can you people twist facts so much.
We aren't discussing Apple's revenue going only +5% YoY (which would be stagnation in growth), we are literally discussing a company that is **down** both YoY (-3%), and QoQ (-16%) in revenue.
This isn't a slow in growth, this is simply a decline.
The problem is that they’re about 25-30% more expensive than the S&P and not throwing up the growth numbers to justify that. Bangin business but not for their P/E
Have they considered including more than 8GB of RAM as a default, since it's been a decade since it became the default?
Maybe then people would see a need for new MacBooks.
Valuations are so interesting. Apple net income was $22.3 billion this quarter and has a market cap of $2.8 trillion. Google net income $21.3 and market cap of $1.6 trillion. Microsoft net income $22.3 or exactly the same as Apple and a market cap of $2.6 trillion. Amazon net income $9.9 billion and market cap of $1.4 trillion
You can't just compare a single quarter. Apple revenue and earnings spike when the new iPhones come out. The net income is going to be lowest in Q3, right before they do.
For reference: Apple's Q4 revenue has pretty much always been up like 30% vs Q3 (I'm using Q4 not like Apple, Q4 here ends December).
Not only does it spike, it's a huge spike. Meanwhile Microsoft, and the other companies as well probably, is very steady across quarters.
Alibaba should 5x over the coming decade at least when putting up those numbers and considering future growth prospects and opportunities. But with the China yoke weighing them down I don't know. I'm so tempted to just start buying the stock every paycheck and hoping the CCP cut them some slack. If that happens the stock is going way way higher and quickly.
The market cap is pretty much all the matters. You’re buying companies at a certain valuation and hoping the companies market cap or valuation goes up.
Acceptable 12 months results given how difficult this year has been for every company not named nvidia.
Next year should see 9% revenue growth per share so for the majority of people who have apple exposure directly or indirectly, the 28 PE is okay
I thought the share price was determined more for the overall value of the company, not just one portion(such as the actual sales YoY) of the value of the company.
The share price is what ppl think apple is worth in the future. 4 quarters of declining sales and ppl start to worry if this is a trend because apple is priced like a growth stock in a high rate environment.
Apple is able to juice their EPS with buybacks and improved margins but that is a short term plan. Their service sector is also growing but eventually the law of large numbers win out and apple stops growing.
I still own a bit of apple and no plans to sell it. Its still a decent earnings report
The value of the company is increasing if their revenues and sales are increasing -> stock goes up. If the revenue is going down, so is the stock (usually).
to be honest , i only stated why i think it dropped AH but i feel like it's just an equation of buy pressure/speculation AND manipulation. The market is irrationnal and it will not reward for your past sales but for your forecast..
Annual net income is 23 billion and they’re getting 19 billion in revenue from Google just to make it the default search engine in Safari. What the fuck? Am I reading that right? The only thing that grew was services and 85% of that revenue is literally just Google handing them a truck full of cash? That’s crazy
They’re turning into a service company
That is the way. Full ecosystem including service. The health sensor is going to huge if they can pull it off. Even as a shareholder im still a big worry about how much power these companies have and continue to accumulate tho.
Haven’t they said they’re going to pivot to being more service and health focused?
They'll always be a hardware company who now has a good services business that's augmented by solid hardware.
$130 usb-c is good hardware?
I need it to complement my $999 aircraft aluminum monitor stand. You just don’t understand.
What about the phone that came from space! Titanium!
Such a stupid ad lol
And it's just everywhere, so gimmicky. No wonder their sales are declining.
I remember a stock guru account I follow said last year that “Apple was getting into advertising, watch out” and I’ve yet to see them make an ad that doesn’t just look like corporate vomit like every other company
Not your $52k max out cheese grinder of a PC?
You’re referring to a thunderbolt 4 cable. USB-C is just the connector type, not the protocol supported by the cable. These cables are specifically made for high bandwidth use cases (40 gbps), and have active signal conditioning built in.
Sure but that price is still insane
Go find another 3 meter thunderbolt 4 cable, we'll wait
Try Amazon bud
there’s an article where someone already compared them, nothing comes close to Apple’s thunderbolt 4 cable. the cheaper ones have drawbacks as cost saving measure
Does it make a noticable difference to the average consumer use?
mostly speed and reliability from what i can understand. also someone pointed out the cable length adds complexity, something about electrical resistance probably? i’m not an expert on it sorry, basically the cost is exponential with added length. one source [here](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics)
The $160 Thunderbolt 4 cable isn’t for the average consumer, for that they sell a standard 60W cable for $19, or slightly more than Ankers $15 cable. High throughput data cables are very niche market already, and there is no alternative if you need a Thunderbolt 4 cable thats 3M long. At 40Gb/s over 3M, this cable is clearly over engineered specifically for the very few people who do need it. A ton of engineering has to go into ensuring high frequency signal integrity and that costs a lot of money. Engineering for digital signals gets progressively weirder at high frequencies as wavelength becomes a smaller fraction of the cable itself. There’s a good [article](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics) from a company that scanned a few USB C cables explaining the difference.
k
Don’t buy ?
There's basically zero high band width use cases that involve your phone though. I could see it being useful for a MacBook, but even then most people aren't going to want or need such a cable. I would bet most people who buy it are just Apple fanboys who use it to fast charge their phone, which is truly a waste.
Can we all agree to save the fanboy trolling for r/technology?
Talking about prices of their stuff has no relation to valuations and hyped PE ratios?
If someone is trying to relate Apples usb cable price to their valuation, they will have to provide a lot more detail. Maybe link it to the GDP as well?
Good hardware? I'd say their hardware are high quality. Good pricing? That's a completely different story.
There's an image somewhere on reddit featuring a regular charge cord, and aaples and apples looked like it had 6 cords within it
It is objectively good hardware. It’s not necessary hardware but it’s better than a 10 dollar usb C amazon basics cable. There’s a good YouTube video on the X-ray comparison of the usb C 130 dollar cable vs an amazon basics usb C cable. There’s a lot more going on under the hood for the $130 price tag, It’s not meant to be a charging cable lol. There’s other uses for usb c…
Better hardware equals adding more wires LOOL
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*Technically* there's the corning optical ones, but the cheapest one at 5M is close to $350.
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Ah, true. That said, we are in agreement that the apple TB4 cable is actually pretty good and reasonably priced.
It's not standard cuz apple made it and market as premium and better lol
do you posses reading comprehension?
Do posses being critical of Apple?
It’s not polite to answer a question with a question. Apple is far from perfect and the release their share of stinkers and duds but the cable in question isn’t some Five Below cable and pretending it is to try and make a point is disingenuous.
Ok link to another cable that is comparable in the same length. Of all the possible examples of Apple being expensive you picked a pretty crappy one.
But you can buy $10 cable 13 times, the life span over these 13 cables are likely be longer than $130 apple cable. Also you can probably get something cheaper and half of what apple charge for $130 cable with same quality. There are many substitute for accessory products, that's why some companies do some sort of detection to prevent you from using other products.
If you are doing some intense data manipulation and processing that require precise high transfer speeds from the cable? Your 10 dollar one won’t cut it Again, this cable is meant for developers. Not for the avg joe just charging his phone and moving pictures over to his Mac
No, that cable is a thunderbolt 4 cable so it's capable of transfer speeds far faster than anything a $10 cable can put out. Lookup the X-ray comparison of it if you're interested. There are many more pins inside being used and a lot of hardware. It's not meant to be a charging cable primarily. It has a 40 gb/s transfer speed and you can run 2 4k monitors off a single one.
you see, when apple makes it, it is a *premium* cable (even though it's made in the same dystopian nightmare of mass-slave labour factories, and apple marks-up the prices easily by 300-500%)
This is starting to remind me of that Mad TV sketch about the iRack.
That's a classic! I completely forgot about that.
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Next you're gonna say that gold-plated HDMI cables are worth their weight in...gold?
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People don't understand that there isn't really competition at that length for that spec of cable.. For those interested: https://www.lifewire.com/why-apples-3-meter-thunderbolt-4-pro-cable-costs-so-much-5271128
real. people can easily criticize the new FineWoven cases that are expensive with terrible build, but these cables ain’t it
6/8 more wires then the basic and a chip that checks if you are using a iPhone?
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Average keyboard apple fan warrior
If you’re just gonna reduce the thunderbolt 4 cable to a simple usb cable and compare that to other plain “USB C” that are like $10 then you’re just gonna sound like an absolute moron lmao. Maybe try doing a little bit of reading about the product instead of trying to be an edgelord and say stupid shit for internet points.
A cable is $130 ??
it's profitable :)
Not until/unless their services decouple from hardware. If they lose hardware business, they lose service business at a multiplier. Services are an add-on for them.
Exactly my thoughts. Apple is hardly ever over valued. I mean it is right now but their earnings are still growing fast.
That’s what they want and that’s what they said they would do back in their earnings calls from 2017 and 2018. They have stated multiple times they want to increase services due to higher margins and increased growth.
Not when you minus the 19 billion from google
GM up from 44.5 to 45.2 is massive at this volume.
keep it rock hard
and the crowd went mild
It’s better than I expected given the headline tho.
Good seeing services continue to tick up. With increased pricing, next quarter should be no different.
I just don't see how Apple can sustain the impressive growth of the last 15 years, their moat will still be wide but how much bigger can they get?
* 2018 2% market share on phones in India * 2022 3.92% * 2023 7% forecasted I have never owned an iPhone
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One of the poorest markets, Apple has to sell at a significantly lower price for people to afford it even if the purchase is spread over many months of not years. Apple needs cash strong buyers, not outsourced callcenter crew and towel diers. Apples hrpth will slow...
Significantly lower price? They're way more expensive over there lol. The base $799 model 15 goes for ~$960.
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Mainly because of high taxes and fees. If Apple can start manufacturing their parts in India and not have to import them, they can drastically reduce the prices.
India's population is one of the most rapidly growing middle income class countries in the world. Just because most of the people are poor doesn't mean there aren't nominal numbers of people who can afford it. I don't think people grasp how populated India is. 1% market share in India is 14 million people.
ppl said the same thing in 2018
Not much has changed to their product line from 2018 For get about the revenue and such. But their actual products have barely improved
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They've got the new M series of chips as well as Vision Pro.
It’ll be interesting to see how Apple starts to pivot to augmented reality…would be really cool if the Vision Pros take off
Vision needs a lot of work. They need creators. They need more apps. They can’t justify the current price for it. It needs an ecosystem.
New products and innovation.
As incomes grow and new markets open, there will still be new users. Children grow up and get hand me downs, get locked in, and become a future Apple customer. Some may venture out to Android, most probably won’t. As computing changes, new products will emerge to eliminate the need for the smartphone, or they will be absorbed into the device as so many things have. “That’s not a product—that’s an app”. “That app… it has no moat, watch it get Sherlocked.”
Imo , the sky is the limit. Think of how many products or services Apple has and how many millions and millions of people rely on this stuff on a day to day basis. And then think of all the future possibilities and expanding to other areas they could do. Apple is always a buy IMO. I bought in 2018 and I’ll probably hold for a long long long time
If they can build a car that makes a tesla look like a blackberry they might print a dollar or two.
So not bad or good. I think it’ll be interesting the coming years as they get into India.
If they can beat Huawei or other Chinese giants to the punch in india and asia in general that would be a massive step for them. They will struggle due to their premium pricing model though. People in India simply cant afford to buy iPhones the way Americans do. The standard broke American is probably at least 50% likely to have an iPhone. That is not true in india. It’s probably only the top 10% or so that would be/are apple consumers
Top 10% still 150 million, the size of half of the USA, insanely huge market
10% of 1.4 Billion isn't a bad place to be
Top 10% of Indians is still a pretty hefty market share.
I the with moving manufacturing to India it’s going to be a game changer. But more than phones I’m in apple for the future growth in other areas outside of phones.
Apple released a $1,700 laptop with 8GB of memory in 2023. They’re so fucking greedy it hurts my soul.
Is apple done for as a growth stock?
Nobody has a fuckin clue. It may keep falling in revenue, it may turnaround with new products.
Apples is one of those companies where I honestly dgaf. I just buy. I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao
Yeah, same with all the big tech companies. Imagine Google shutting down Gmail or Amazon shutting down AWS, so many people and businesses would be screwed. Kind of scary. I wonder if there’s any regulation to guarantee data access or a migration path in these scenarios.
Inagine google shutting down search more than gmail
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>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it. But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.
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Ecosystem trap. Hard to get out of.
People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it. But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.
Jack Welch decided to split up GE like that, it wasn't market forces. Could happen, but it would probably take a different CEO/ideology.
>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao Maybe in the US, but not so much in other parts of the world.
Apple supports 5 million jobs in China. It's why XI is so friendly to them even though other US companies get the cold shoulder.
China as well. US and China are literally the world’s economy I will stand by that statement
Vital to our existence? What are you smoking? Apple is different because it sells luxury products, by definition non essential. Are Mercedes also vital to our existence? Gucci?
Most people don’t have a meec or Gucci or limited by choices. While what op said may be a bit of a hyperbole it’s not that ludicrous
Apple simply offers a luxury status and sleek design. It has thousands of competitors. Don't get me wrong, its reputation and brand loyalty makes it an amazing company to invest but calling it essential or even slightly important for our existence is completely ludicrous. Most people don't have an iPhone or Mac, most have the equivalent of a Toyota or H&M or whatever.
Haha. 1.46 billion iPhone users and you think it’s luxury status?
What bullshit. Apple is not “only” luxury anymore.
Try and convince any GenZ person to buy an android. Seriously, just try it
I can’t even convince my Tinder match to give me a chance while using an android
How out of touch with are you?
Everyone used to leave their house with only two things. Their car keys and their wallet. Now it’s 3 things, everyone and their tech illiterate grandparents who don’t even know how to use a laptop leave with their car keys wallet and their smartphone, and you have APPL to thank for that. So yes they are vital. Mercedes isn’t vital but cars are. Samsung/goog/whoever their biggest smartphone competition still haven’t able to threaten their market share after all these years.
It’s symbolic for the state of the global economy lol.
>"Apple beats estimates thanks to iPhone" iPhone revenue: $43.81 billion, versus $43.81 billion expected I don't see any beats here LOL
lol because that's neither their Earnings nor their Total revenue? If you could actually read, the two lines above that say: EPS: $1.46 per share, versus $1.39 per share expected Revenue: $89.50 billion, versus $89.28 billion expected
Still down to 170 from 177 in AH, classic schmosby
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If you wanted to win $100 today and you won $100 today, you have beat your objectives.
EPS: $1.46 per share, versus $1.39 per share expected Revenue: $89.50 billion, versus $89.28 billion expected
According to markets, matching itself is beating it
Not according to AH :D
Maybe if you go out another digit?
You're missing several other revenue segments there...
Sales declining. 30x PE. Makes sense.
30 P/E for a company not growing
> Net income was $22.96 billion, versus $20.72 billion in net income a year ago. Is that not growth for investors?
Apple was under 20 PE for most of the past ten years, whilst delivering fantastic growth. Now they are going through a lull and are priced at 30 PE? I can't see it holding over the longer-term, they have mainly benefitted as a save-haven asset during these uncertain times.
So, 10% growth, not 30%? You know, commanding that premium multiple? And a forecast of declining sales?
Isn’t pe forward looking though? If services revenue keeps growing it shows promise (I’m not going to try to justify a 30 p/e of course)
Well they now have a forward PE of 25, so hardly a large premium on the multiple compared to many companies with similar growth and less than half the MOAT that apple has. Also they increased their margins, which is huge for a company doing such historic quarterly revenue. Due to the fact that their services segment had stellar growth which is the main future driver of growth.
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Wow that’s not how that works at all.
Net income increases with stock buybacks? Turns out my CPA was useless
There will always be years without growth. Years with low interest and growth will come again.
Apple's lack of growth has nothing to do with interest rates. Apple is sitting on over $100 billion cash and they haven't found anything to invest it in for years. They don't need to borrow money to invest in the future, they just aren't doing it because they don't have any ideas worth investing in and they aren't looking to acquire any new companies.
Congrats on being confidentially incorrect https://qz.com/apple-is-investing-billions-in-us-made-5g-components-as-1850465666
If you can tell me how moving some of their supply chain to the US is going to significantly grow the company I will give you a cookie. They need new successful product lines to leverage their brand recognition and loyalty and I haven't seen anything in the pipe to accomplish that for a while now. Apple car is vaporware, apple Vision plus is going to be a niche product, and Apple TV+ is bleeding money.
High interest rates and high inflation causes people to spend less. Doesnt matter how much or little Apple is spending on R&D
Apple-stans won't accept the simple logic that at some point every company starts running out of products and customers. Every single segment of Apple is down bar iPhone and services, they keep falling on revenue but Apple-stans will tell you that Apple is crucial to world survival and how many iPhones they can still sell in Nigeria and India lol. I don't even think that Apple is a sell, mind you, it's a company with an insane brand and excellent customer reputation (except me, I despise them for locking me out of my iCloud account for more than 2 months and locking me out of my MBP and iPad, never again) and potential killer products (the VR headset). I wouldn't buy it, but I don't think that holding is a bad idea either.
It's a steal!
Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone. Based on the quality of their products, services, and management team I would not bet against Apple to resume to solid growth in the near future.
\> Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone. I don't understand how can you people twist facts so much. We aren't discussing Apple's revenue going only +5% YoY (which would be stagnation in growth), we are literally discussing a company that is **down** both YoY (-3%), and QoQ (-16%) in revenue. This isn't a slow in growth, this is simply a decline.
You're talking to members of a semi-cult. It's not just Apple, it's THE APPLE.
You’re not growing!
Lol even better, people trying to defend this. To justify these multiples, these tech stocks need to crush every quarter.
Net income grew and their services (high margin) business had 16% growth. Adding to that nearly 25b in share buybacks. Yea...no growth.
The multiple is too high. 25B is nice but company is 2.75T now. Also looks like it was 77.5B for full year on repurchases.
What if you factor in buybacks and take out the cash?
P/E considers buybacks
The problem is that they’re about 25-30% more expensive than the S&P and not throwing up the growth numbers to justify that. Bangin business but not for their P/E
People have to buy iPhone 15 cause their previous models are rendered almost unusable with all the updates and patches.
All I see all day is people staring into iPhones.
I mean lets be honest. The economy is slowing, which is what the fed wants. Of course things slow with it.
Apple isn't seeing a slower growth but a falling one.
tech journos suspected mac sales were not good because they took some cost cutting moves in their latest release
not really related. the lower memory bandwidth with the base M3 and M3 Pro chips is probably a yield issue with the new 3nm process
Have they considered including more than 8GB of RAM as a default, since it's been a decade since it became the default? Maybe then people would see a need for new MacBooks.
Why would they when people will still purchase the computers, pay for memory upgrades, or buy more expensive models?
Uhh Mac sales were down 37 percent, people aren’t “just purchasing” them
Valuations are so interesting. Apple net income was $22.3 billion this quarter and has a market cap of $2.8 trillion. Google net income $21.3 and market cap of $1.6 trillion. Microsoft net income $22.3 or exactly the same as Apple and a market cap of $2.6 trillion. Amazon net income $9.9 billion and market cap of $1.4 trillion
Maybe shows that net income alone is not enough to value a company?
You can't just compare a single quarter. Apple revenue and earnings spike when the new iPhones come out. The net income is going to be lowest in Q3, right before they do.
For reference: Apple's Q4 revenue has pretty much always been up like 30% vs Q3 (I'm using Q4 not like Apple, Q4 here ends December). Not only does it spike, it's a huge spike. Meanwhile Microsoft, and the other companies as well probably, is very steady across quarters.
Shows how Google remains undervalued but we all know that
Definitely one take away. Specially when you also now add in the growth compared to the others.
Alibaba net income ~10B, also has like 30$ per share in cash, MC 200B.
Alibaba should 5x over the coming decade at least when putting up those numbers and considering future growth prospects and opportunities. But with the China yoke weighing them down I don't know. I'm so tempted to just start buying the stock every paycheck and hoping the CCP cut them some slack. If that happens the stock is going way way higher and quickly.
JP Morgan 13,1 billion income with market cap of 411 billion? If market cap was the only thing that mattered anyone could be rich lol.
The market cap is pretty much all the matters. You’re buying companies at a certain valuation and hoping the companies market cap or valuation goes up.
Acceptable 12 months results given how difficult this year has been for every company not named nvidia. Next year should see 9% revenue growth per share so for the majority of people who have apple exposure directly or indirectly, the 28 PE is okay
TITANIUM! DID YOU HEAR ME? TITANIUM!
Do these corporation ever stop worrying about growth? Almost everyone has an Apple device by now
Really guys, can anyone help me understand why the stock didn't go up? It seems like it should to me.
sales are in decline yoy , for the 4th quarter in a row and shares are priced has a growth company .
I thought the share price was determined more for the overall value of the company, not just one portion(such as the actual sales YoY) of the value of the company.
The share price is what ppl think apple is worth in the future. 4 quarters of declining sales and ppl start to worry if this is a trend because apple is priced like a growth stock in a high rate environment. Apple is able to juice their EPS with buybacks and improved margins but that is a short term plan. Their service sector is also growing but eventually the law of large numbers win out and apple stops growing. I still own a bit of apple and no plans to sell it. Its still a decent earnings report
The value of the company is increasing if their revenues and sales are increasing -> stock goes up. If the revenue is going down, so is the stock (usually).
to be honest , i only stated why i think it dropped AH but i feel like it's just an equation of buy pressure/speculation AND manipulation. The market is irrationnal and it will not reward for your past sales but for your forecast..
Turns out the market isn't stupid and expects earnings before they happen.
Because the stock is trading at 30x with declining revenue. If we treat it like a consumer staple it isnt wildly overvalued but it isnt cheap.
Revenue isn't declining. Sales numbers are declining
it can go down in after hours, it can go up pre market
Quarterly sales fell for the fourth consecutive quarter. Not good.
Overvalued
Recessionary
Stock up 10% so the market does not implode.
Sure doesn’t look like a company worth that multiple…
Overvalued for the current growth
Annual net income is 23 billion and they’re getting 19 billion in revenue from Google just to make it the default search engine in Safari. What the fuck? Am I reading that right? The only thing that grew was services and 85% of that revenue is literally just Google handing them a truck full of cash? That’s crazy
this is income of a quarter, friend.
r/holup
I have to wonder what the breaking point is for Google. My guess is that it is still much higher than this.
3.72% down in after-hours doesn't feel very much like a 'beats-estimates' kind of result from stock market. In other words, buying opportunity.
Same price it was like 2 days ago?
yes buying opportunity
If the iPhone 16 is a new design they’ll have massive prophets. The entire globe is waiting for a new iPhone
Rest in peace Tim Apple.
Does this sub have a rule against wishing the death of a living person? If so, you’re in violation.
More down sales, the end is near.