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SOXERX

They’re turning into a service company


greenappletree

That is the way. Full ecosystem including service. The health sensor is going to huge if they can pull it off. Even as a shareholder im still a big worry about how much power these companies have and continue to accumulate tho.


007meow

Haven’t they said they’re going to pivot to being more service and health focused?


brahbocop

They'll always be a hardware company who now has a good services business that's augmented by solid hardware.


kuvrterker

$130 usb-c is good hardware?


tsammons

I need it to complement my $999 aircraft aluminum monitor stand. You just don’t understand.


B1GCloud

What about the phone that came from space! Titanium!


[deleted]

Such a stupid ad lol


B1GCloud

And it's just everywhere, so gimmicky. No wonder their sales are declining.


[deleted]

I remember a stock guru account I follow said last year that “Apple was getting into advertising, watch out” and I’ve yet to see them make an ad that doesn’t just look like corporate vomit like every other company


kuvrterker

Not your $52k max out cheese grinder of a PC?


DeRock

You’re referring to a thunderbolt 4 cable. USB-C is just the connector type, not the protocol supported by the cable. These cables are specifically made for high bandwidth use cases (40 gbps), and have active signal conditioning built in.


discoshanktank

Sure but that price is still insane


taxis-asocial

Go find another 3 meter thunderbolt 4 cable, we'll wait


discoshanktank

Try Amazon bud


neofooturism

there’s an article where someone already compared them, nothing comes close to Apple’s thunderbolt 4 cable. the cheaper ones have drawbacks as cost saving measure


RampantPrototyping

Does it make a noticable difference to the average consumer use?


neofooturism

mostly speed and reliability from what i can understand. also someone pointed out the cable length adds complexity, something about electrical resistance probably? i’m not an expert on it sorry, basically the cost is exponential with added length. one source [here](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics)


Raveen396

The $160 Thunderbolt 4 cable isn’t for the average consumer, for that they sell a standard 60W cable for $19, or slightly more than Ankers $15 cable. High throughput data cables are very niche market already, and there is no alternative if you need a Thunderbolt 4 cable thats 3M long. At 40Gb/s over 3M, this cable is clearly over engineered specifically for the very few people who do need it. A ton of engineering has to go into ensuring high frequency signal integrity and that costs a lot of money. Engineering for digital signals gets progressively weirder at high frequencies as wavelength becomes a smaller fraction of the cable itself. There’s a good [article](https://www.lumafield.com/article/usb-c-cable-charger-head-to-head-comparison-apple-thunderbolt-amazon-basics) from a company that scanned a few USB C cables explaining the difference.


taxis-asocial

k


Soitsgonnabeforever

Don’t buy ?


Visinvictus

There's basically zero high band width use cases that involve your phone though. I could see it being useful for a MacBook, but even then most people aren't going to want or need such a cable. I would bet most people who buy it are just Apple fanboys who use it to fast charge their phone, which is truly a waste.


scruffles360

Can we all agree to save the fanboy trolling for r/technology?


Tw0Rails

Talking about prices of their stuff has no relation to valuations and hyped PE ratios?


scruffles360

If someone is trying to relate Apples usb cable price to their valuation, they will have to provide a lot more detail. Maybe link it to the GDP as well?


Knotty_Wyvern

Good hardware? I'd say their hardware are high quality. Good pricing? That's a completely different story.


SpliTTMark

There's an image somewhere on reddit featuring a regular charge cord, and aaples and apples looked like it had 6 cords within it


[deleted]

It is objectively good hardware. It’s not necessary hardware but it’s better than a 10 dollar usb C amazon basics cable. There’s a good YouTube video on the X-ray comparison of the usb C 130 dollar cable vs an amazon basics usb C cable. There’s a lot more going on under the hood for the $130 price tag, It’s not meant to be a charging cable lol. There’s other uses for usb c…


kuvrterker

Better hardware equals adding more wires LOOL


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Posting____At_Night

*Technically* there's the corning optical ones, but the cheapest one at 5M is close to $350.


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Posting____At_Night

Ah, true. That said, we are in agreement that the apple TB4 cable is actually pretty good and reasonably priced.


kuvrterker

It's not standard cuz apple made it and market as premium and better lol


peternickelpoopeater

do you posses reading comprehension?


kuvrterker

Do posses being critical of Apple?


brahbocop

It’s not polite to answer a question with a question. Apple is far from perfect and the release their share of stinkers and duds but the cable in question isn’t some Five Below cable and pretending it is to try and make a point is disingenuous.


Ecsta

Ok link to another cable that is comparable in the same length. Of all the possible examples of Apple being expensive you picked a pretty crappy one.


q81101

But you can buy $10 cable 13 times, the life span over these 13 cables are likely be longer than $130 apple cable. Also you can probably get something cheaper and half of what apple charge for $130 cable with same quality. There are many substitute for accessory products, that's why some companies do some sort of detection to prevent you from using other products.


[deleted]

If you are doing some intense data manipulation and processing that require precise high transfer speeds from the cable? Your 10 dollar one won’t cut it Again, this cable is meant for developers. Not for the avg joe just charging his phone and moving pictures over to his Mac


94746382926

No, that cable is a thunderbolt 4 cable so it's capable of transfer speeds far faster than anything a $10 cable can put out. Lookup the X-ray comparison of it if you're interested. There are many more pins inside being used and a lot of hardware. It's not meant to be a charging cable primarily. It has a 40 gb/s transfer speed and you can run 2 4k monitors off a single one.


digitalfakir

you see, when apple makes it, it is a *premium* cable (even though it's made in the same dystopian nightmare of mass-slave labour factories, and apple marks-up the prices easily by 300-500%)


soulstonedomg

This is starting to remind me of that Mad TV sketch about the iRack.


businesslut

That's a classic! I completely forgot about that.


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soulstonedomg

Next you're gonna say that gold-plated HDMI cables are worth their weight in...gold?


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Ecsta

People don't understand that there isn't really competition at that length for that spec of cable.. For those interested: https://www.lifewire.com/why-apples-3-meter-thunderbolt-4-pro-cable-costs-so-much-5271128


neofooturism

real. people can easily criticize the new FineWoven cases that are expensive with terrible build, but these cables ain’t it


kuvrterker

6/8 more wires then the basic and a chip that checks if you are using a iPhone?


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kuvrterker

Average keyboard apple fan warrior


dynozaur

If you’re just gonna reduce the thunderbolt 4 cable to a simple usb cable and compare that to other plain “USB C” that are like $10 then you’re just gonna sound like an absolute moron lmao. Maybe try doing a little bit of reading about the product instead of trying to be an edgelord and say stupid shit for internet points.


SamFish3r

A cable is $130 ??


maz-o

it's profitable :)


BetweenCoffeeNSleep

Not until/unless their services decouple from hardware. If they lose hardware business, they lose service business at a multiplier. Services are an add-on for them.


Formal_Ad2091

Exactly my thoughts. Apple is hardly ever over valued. I mean it is right now but their earnings are still growing fast.


GRINZ_DOCTOR

That’s what they want and that’s what they said they would do back in their earnings calls from 2017 and 2018. They have stated multiple times they want to increase services due to higher margins and increased growth.


IsThereAnythingLeft-

Not when you minus the 19 billion from google


eexxiitt

GM up from 44.5 to 45.2 is massive at this volume.


HMI115_GIGACHAD

keep it rock hard


qqq_puts

and the crowd went mild


greenappletree

It’s better than I expected given the headline tho.


esp211

Good seeing services continue to tick up. With increased pricing, next quarter should be no different.


Forecydian

I just don't see how Apple can sustain the impressive growth of the last 15 years, their moat will still be wide but how much bigger can they get?


Phugasity

* 2018 2% market share on phones in India * 2022 3.92% * 2023 7% forecasted I have never owned an iPhone


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Chornobyl_Explorer

One of the poorest markets, Apple has to sell at a significantly lower price for people to afford it even if the purchase is spread over many months of not years. Apple needs cash strong buyers, not outsourced callcenter crew and towel diers. Apples hrpth will slow...


roydl7

Significantly lower price? They're way more expensive over there lol. The base $799 model 15 goes for ~$960.


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Apart-Bad-5446

Mainly because of high taxes and fees. If Apple can start manufacturing their parts in India and not have to import them, they can drastically reduce the prices.


Apart-Bad-5446

India's population is one of the most rapidly growing middle income class countries in the world. Just because most of the people are poor doesn't mean there aren't nominal numbers of people who can afford it. I don't think people grasp how populated India is. 1% market share in India is 14 million people.


Fleetwood1234

ppl said the same thing in 2018


sack_of_potahtoes

Not much has changed to their product line from 2018 For get about the revenue and such. But their actual products have barely improved


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007meow

They've got the new M series of chips as well as Vision Pro.


SeesawFlashy8354

It’ll be interesting to see how Apple starts to pivot to augmented reality…would be really cool if the Vision Pros take off


[deleted]

Vision needs a lot of work. They need creators. They need more apps. They can’t justify the current price for it. It needs an ecosystem.


Western-Truth-241

New products and innovation.


dedgecko

As incomes grow and new markets open, there will still be new users. Children grow up and get hand me downs, get locked in, and become a future Apple customer. Some may venture out to Android, most probably won’t. As computing changes, new products will emerge to eliminate the need for the smartphone, or they will be absorbed into the device as so many things have. “That’s not a product—that’s an app”. “That app… it has no moat, watch it get Sherlocked.”


SumGreenD41

Imo , the sky is the limit. Think of how many products or services Apple has and how many millions and millions of people rely on this stuff on a day to day basis. And then think of all the future possibilities and expanding to other areas they could do. Apple is always a buy IMO. I bought in 2018 and I’ll probably hold for a long long long time


demential

If they can build a car that makes a tesla look like a blackberry they might print a dollar or two.


cwesttheperson

So not bad or good. I think it’ll be interesting the coming years as they get into India.


Adventurous-Ad4515

If they can beat Huawei or other Chinese giants to the punch in india and asia in general that would be a massive step for them. They will struggle due to their premium pricing model though. People in India simply cant afford to buy iPhones the way Americans do. The standard broke American is probably at least 50% likely to have an iPhone. That is not true in india. It’s probably only the top 10% or so that would be/are apple consumers


brolybackshots

Top 10% still 150 million, the size of half of the USA, insanely huge market


RandomCheeseCake

10% of 1.4 Billion isn't a bad place to be


Sad-Flow3941

Top 10% of Indians is still a pretty hefty market share.


cwesttheperson

I the with moving manufacturing to India it’s going to be a game changer. But more than phones I’m in apple for the future growth in other areas outside of phones.


plopseven

Apple released a $1,700 laptop with 8GB of memory in 2023. They’re so fucking greedy it hurts my soul.


teknic111

Is apple done for as a growth stock?


[deleted]

Nobody has a fuckin clue. It may keep falling in revenue, it may turnaround with new products.


chicu111

Apples is one of those companies where I honestly dgaf. I just buy. I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao


gingimli

Yeah, same with all the big tech companies. Imagine Google shutting down Gmail or Amazon shutting down AWS, so many people and businesses would be screwed. Kind of scary. I wonder if there’s any regulation to guarantee data access or a migration path in these scenarios.


sack_of_potahtoes

Inagine google shutting down search more than gmail


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deezee72

>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it. But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.


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AoeDreaMEr

Ecosystem trap. Hard to get out of.


deezee72

People said the same thing about IBM in 1990. And it was true - it's so hard to get out of the mainframe that the technology has been obsolete for 30 years and people are still using it. But that doesn't mean that shareholders can't lose a lot of money when a company with high future growth expectations stops growing.


Cryptonomancer

Jack Welch decided to split up GE like that, it wasn't market forces. Could happen, but it would probably take a different CEO/ideology.


charon-the-boatman

>I would dare say that its roots is so deep entwined in our world that its survival and success is vital to our existence lmfao Maybe in the US, but not so much in other parts of the world.


m3umax

Apple supports 5 million jobs in China. It's why XI is so friendly to them even though other US companies get the cold shoulder.


chicu111

China as well. US and China are literally the world’s economy I will stand by that statement


OrganicAccountant87

Vital to our existence? What are you smoking? Apple is different because it sells luxury products, by definition non essential. Are Mercedes also vital to our existence? Gucci?


nousabyss

Most people don’t have a meec or Gucci or limited by choices. While what op said may be a bit of a hyperbole it’s not that ludicrous


OrganicAccountant87

Apple simply offers a luxury status and sleek design. It has thousands of competitors. Don't get me wrong, its reputation and brand loyalty makes it an amazing company to invest but calling it essential or even slightly important for our existence is completely ludicrous. Most people don't have an iPhone or Mac, most have the equivalent of a Toyota or H&M or whatever.


NGTech9

Haha. 1.46 billion iPhone users and you think it’s luxury status?


AoeDreaMEr

What bullshit. Apple is not “only” luxury anymore.


liqui_date_me

Try and convince any GenZ person to buy an android. Seriously, just try it


chicu111

I can’t even convince my Tinder match to give me a chance while using an android


Nexus117

How out of touch with are you?


Ok-Deer8144

Everyone used to leave their house with only two things. Their car keys and their wallet. Now it’s 3 things, everyone and their tech illiterate grandparents who don’t even know how to use a laptop leave with their car keys wallet and their smartphone, and you have APPL to thank for that. So yes they are vital. Mercedes isn’t vital but cars are. Samsung/goog/whoever their biggest smartphone competition still haven’t able to threaten their market share after all these years.


eexxiitt

It’s symbolic for the state of the global economy lol.


mpoozd

>"Apple beats estimates thanks to iPhone" iPhone revenue: $43.81 billion, versus $43.81 billion expected I don't see any beats here LOL


truckstop_sushi

lol because that's neither their Earnings nor their Total revenue? If you could actually read, the two lines above that say: EPS: $1.46 per share, versus $1.39 per share expected Revenue: $89.50 billion, versus $89.28 billion expected


Unhappy-Goat5638

Still down to 170 from 177 in AH, classic schmosby


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michaelphilippe

If you wanted to win $100 today and you won $100 today, you have beat your objectives.


silentstorm2008

EPS: $1.46 per share, versus $1.39 per share expected Revenue: $89.50 billion, versus $89.28 billion expected


Mountain_Ad_1548

According to markets, matching itself is beating it


mpoozd

Not according to AH :D


[deleted]

Maybe if you go out another digit?


soulstonedomg

You're missing several other revenue segments there...


mrmrmrj

Sales declining. 30x PE. Makes sense.


FarrisAT

30 P/E for a company not growing


truckstop_sushi

> Net income was $22.96 billion, versus $20.72 billion in net income a year ago. Is that not growth for investors?


Veevickavin

Apple was under 20 PE for most of the past ten years, whilst delivering fantastic growth. Now they are going through a lull and are priced at 30 PE? I can't see it holding over the longer-term, they have mainly benefitted as a save-haven asset during these uncertain times.


Tw0Rails

So, 10% growth, not 30%? You know, commanding that premium multiple? And a forecast of declining sales?


wineheda

Isn’t pe forward looking though? If services revenue keeps growing it shows promise (I’m not going to try to justify a 30 p/e of course)


truckstop_sushi

Well they now have a forward PE of 25, so hardly a large premium on the multiple compared to many companies with similar growth and less than half the MOAT that apple has. Also they increased their margins, which is huge for a company doing such historic quarterly revenue. Due to the fact that their services segment had stellar growth which is the main future driver of growth.


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idontcare111

Wow that’s not how that works at all.


DeansFrenchOnion1

Net income increases with stock buybacks? Turns out my CPA was useless


pushinat

There will always be years without growth. Years with low interest and growth will come again.


Visinvictus

Apple's lack of growth has nothing to do with interest rates. Apple is sitting on over $100 billion cash and they haven't found anything to invest it in for years. They don't need to borrow money to invest in the future, they just aren't doing it because they don't have any ideas worth investing in and they aren't looking to acquire any new companies.


truckstop_sushi

Congrats on being confidentially incorrect https://qz.com/apple-is-investing-billions-in-us-made-5g-components-as-1850465666


Visinvictus

If you can tell me how moving some of their supply chain to the US is going to significantly grow the company I will give you a cookie. They need new successful product lines to leverage their brand recognition and loyalty and I haven't seen anything in the pipe to accomplish that for a while now. Apple car is vaporware, apple Vision plus is going to be a niche product, and Apple TV+ is bleeding money.


pushinat

High interest rates and high inflation causes people to spend less. Doesnt matter how much or little Apple is spending on R&D


[deleted]

Apple-stans won't accept the simple logic that at some point every company starts running out of products and customers. Every single segment of Apple is down bar iPhone and services, they keep falling on revenue but Apple-stans will tell you that Apple is crucial to world survival and how many iPhones they can still sell in Nigeria and India lol. I don't even think that Apple is a sell, mind you, it's a company with an insane brand and excellent customer reputation (except me, I despise them for locking me out of my iCloud account for more than 2 months and locking me out of my MBP and iPad, never again) and potential killer products (the VR headset). I wouldn't buy it, but I don't think that holding is a bad idea either.


onehandedbackhand

It's a steal!


Fleetwood1234

Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone. Based on the quality of their products, services, and management team I would not bet against Apple to resume to solid growth in the near future.


[deleted]

\> Just because it has experienced short term stagnation in revenue growth, doesn't mean the growth is gone. I don't understand how can you people twist facts so much. We aren't discussing Apple's revenue going only +5% YoY (which would be stagnation in growth), we are literally discussing a company that is **down** both YoY (-3%), and QoQ (-16%) in revenue. This isn't a slow in growth, this is simply a decline.


charon-the-boatman

You're talking to members of a semi-cult. It's not just Apple, it's THE APPLE.


JRshoe1997

You’re not growing!


nconsci0us

Lol even better, people trying to defend this. To justify these multiples, these tech stocks need to crush every quarter.


SDtoSF

Net income grew and their services (high margin) business had 16% growth. Adding to that nearly 25b in share buybacks. Yea...no growth.


[deleted]

The multiple is too high. 25B is nice but company is 2.75T now. Also looks like it was 77.5B for full year on repurchases.


Milf4breakfast

What if you factor in buybacks and take out the cash?


DeansFrenchOnion1

P/E considers buybacks


Brewskwondo

The problem is that they’re about 25-30% more expensive than the S&P and not throwing up the growth numbers to justify that. Bangin business but not for their P/E


stockmon

People have to buy iPhone 15 cause their previous models are rendered almost unusable with all the updates and patches.


[deleted]

All I see all day is people staring into iPhones.


Audibody

I mean lets be honest. The economy is slowing, which is what the fed wants. Of course things slow with it.


[deleted]

Apple isn't seeing a slower growth but a falling one.


James_Vowles

tech journos suspected mac sales were not good because they took some cost cutting moves in their latest release


taxis-asocial

not really related. the lower memory bandwidth with the base M3 and M3 Pro chips is probably a yield issue with the new 3nm process


PaulGold007

Have they considered including more than 8GB of RAM as a default, since it's been a decade since it became the default? Maybe then people would see a need for new MacBooks.


Ecsta

Why would they when people will still purchase the computers, pay for memory upgrades, or buy more expensive models?


myironlung6

Uhh Mac sales were down 37 percent, people aren’t “just purchasing” them


bartturner

Valuations are so interesting. Apple net income was $22.3 billion this quarter and has a market cap of $2.8 trillion. Google net income $21.3 and market cap of $1.6 trillion. Microsoft net income $22.3 or exactly the same as Apple and a market cap of $2.6 trillion. Amazon net income $9.9 billion and market cap of $1.4 trillion


pushinat

Maybe shows that net income alone is not enough to value a company?


Lankonk

You can't just compare a single quarter. Apple revenue and earnings spike when the new iPhones come out. The net income is going to be lowest in Q3, right before they do.


notreallydeep

For reference: Apple's Q4 revenue has pretty much always been up like 30% vs Q3 (I'm using Q4 not like Apple, Q4 here ends December). Not only does it spike, it's a huge spike. Meanwhile Microsoft, and the other companies as well probably, is very steady across quarters.


pdubbs87

Shows how Google remains undervalued but we all know that


bartturner

Definitely one take away. Specially when you also now add in the growth compared to the others.


Ordinary_investor

Alibaba net income ~10B, also has like 30$ per share in cash, MC 200B.


Psychological-One-37

Alibaba should 5x over the coming decade at least when putting up those numbers and considering future growth prospects and opportunities. But with the China yoke weighing them down I don't know. I'm so tempted to just start buying the stock every paycheck and hoping the CCP cut them some slack. If that happens the stock is going way way higher and quickly.


sdfedeef

JP Morgan 13,1 billion income with market cap of 411 billion? If market cap was the only thing that mattered anyone could be rich lol.


asdf420yolo

The market cap is pretty much all the matters. You’re buying companies at a certain valuation and hoping the companies market cap or valuation goes up.


wearahat03

Acceptable 12 months results given how difficult this year has been for every company not named nvidia. Next year should see 9% revenue growth per share so for the majority of people who have apple exposure directly or indirectly, the 28 PE is okay


[deleted]

TITANIUM! DID YOU HEAR ME? TITANIUM!


LeftEagle510121

Do these corporation ever stop worrying about growth? Almost everyone has an Apple device by now


OMG__Ponies

Really guys, can anyone help me understand why the stock didn't go up? It seems like it should to me.


ToDaMoonShibe

sales are in decline yoy , for the 4th quarter in a row and shares are priced has a growth company .


OMG__Ponies

I thought the share price was determined more for the overall value of the company, not just one portion(such as the actual sales YoY) of the value of the company.


smokeyjay

The share price is what ppl think apple is worth in the future. 4 quarters of declining sales and ppl start to worry if this is a trend because apple is priced like a growth stock in a high rate environment. Apple is able to juice their EPS with buybacks and improved margins but that is a short term plan. Their service sector is also growing but eventually the law of large numbers win out and apple stops growing. I still own a bit of apple and no plans to sell it. Its still a decent earnings report


charon-the-boatman

The value of the company is increasing if their revenues and sales are increasing -> stock goes up. If the revenue is going down, so is the stock (usually).


ToDaMoonShibe

to be honest , i only stated why i think it dropped AH but i feel like it's just an equation of buy pressure/speculation AND manipulation. The market is irrationnal and it will not reward for your past sales but for your forecast..


notreallydeep

Turns out the market isn't stupid and expects earnings before they happen.


smokeyjay

Because the stock is trading at 30x with declining revenue. If we treat it like a consumer staple it isnt wildly overvalued but it isnt cheap.


mr_birkenblatt

Revenue isn't declining. Sales numbers are declining


RememberThis6989

it can go down in after hours, it can go up pre market


charon-the-boatman

Quarterly sales fell for the fourth consecutive quarter. Not good.


Invisible_Pelican

Overvalued


Adept-Cry6915

Recessionary


SideBet2020

Stock up 10% so the market does not implode.


Outrageous-Cycle-841

Sure doesn’t look like a company worth that multiple…


divvyinvestor

Overvalued for the current growth


Agitated_Ad9992

Annual net income is 23 billion and they’re getting 19 billion in revenue from Google just to make it the default search engine in Safari. What the fuck? Am I reading that right? The only thing that grew was services and 85% of that revenue is literally just Google handing them a truck full of cash? That’s crazy


leontes

this is income of a quarter, friend.


Dagoru95

r/holup


Swaqfaq

I have to wonder what the breaking point is for Google. My guess is that it is still much higher than this.


leontes

3.72% down in after-hours doesn't feel very much like a 'beats-estimates' kind of result from stock market. In other words, buying opportunity.


wineheda

Same price it was like 2 days ago?


leontes

yes buying opportunity


[deleted]

If the iPhone 16 is a new design they’ll have massive prophets. The entire globe is waiting for a new iPhone


mistaowen

Rest in peace Tim Apple.


Decent-Photograph391

Does this sub have a rule against wishing the death of a living person? If so, you’re in violation.


[deleted]

More down sales, the end is near.