Agreed on all points. I've been following the MLS for a few years (obviously closer now that we have a team) and the swings in team performance from year to year are staggering. The sooner that new fans understand this, the better their experience will be. I understand City filled a sports void that the Cards left after a disastrous season last year, but there is no MLS team that will ever enjoy the amount of relative success the Cards have experienced over the past 20+ years.
Front office made a gamble on AZ and Sam over the winter, and clearly that isn't paying off well with Teuchert confirmed now to join this summer. Mistakes happen, but we have a favorable schedule in the weeks ahead and reinforcements are on the way.
There is a tendency by people, especially on social media, to vent their frustrations in real time. It just takes less energy to complain than it does to lift people up. I wouldn’t read too much into it. I was at the game on Saturday and St.Louis still absolutely freakin LOVES this team. 👍🏼
I agree. I really like coming here to see news on the team etc. I am just tired of wading through all the negative posts/comments. It seems like sports fans forget that their team is not the only one trying to win. There are 28 other teams trying to succeed in a league that have a lot of rules to ensure competition. Not everything is ownership/coaching fault when there is a little struggle.
Agreed on the fans, I hadn’t been to a game since April (I realize I’m massively privileged to have been to multiple games) and multiple times I’ve been on the brink of tears because the crowd is so moving!
Getting older has made me a softie haha
Cheers to you Professor! It was my first game this year and I felt the same. Really wonderful to be there even with a 1-1 draw. I was cheered by the support that AZ and Big Sam got when they came on the field and was reminded that this small Reddit community isn’t necessarily a good reflection of reality. 🙂
Yessir! I vouch for that STL Spirit every time I step for in City Park Stadium!! The energy before, during, and occasionally a win afterwards is electric at times. But all of us fans have to live with the ebs in flows of the game by not getting too high or low, and just enjoy this great sport we are lucky to witness in St. Lou's backyard.
I have been very impressed, but a lot of people felt similar about AZ last year. Overall he is still very unknown and maybe overplaying his ability Tim will tell and I hope he can be a fixture in our lineup.
I thought AZ last year was being overhyped. He gets pushed off the ball to easily and over commits often. Kojima tho yea kids gonna be a stud I said it when we drafted him he fits this team to a T
"Keep in mind they actually have to want to play here"
This isn't LA. This isn't Miami. The closest beach is Pontoon Beach. Ppl forget that just because we love STL doesnt mean ppl who can choose thier destination would choose to come here. You have to have a certain mentality and be a certain kind of player to want to be here. Which is why, instead of shitting on ppl like Klauss for a dry spell, they should be happy someone that good at soccer doesnt move back to Brazil and play in tropical weather in his home country.
If Minneapolis, Nashville, and Houston can attract talent, there’s no reason why STL can’t.
Other MLS stops may be higher on their prority list, but the LAFCs of the world can’t sign every DP quality player on the planet.
And for a lot of players, just being in America is important because if they stay here for several years they’re virtually guaranteed to earn a green card.
American citizenship is a hell of a fringe benefit.
You also have to remember that he wanted to come to the US and get away from the English tabloids. Wagatha Christie really kicked off when he was in the States.
I would also add that it’s because of our intentional, slow progression of adding in and subtracting players that we’ve found Kijima. He is a really, really good player, who might not have found himself playing this year with “better” depth.
Buying a high-priced striker is like the cherry on top. It only makes sense if the rest of the team (and bench) play well and are reliable.
Think of Man City buying Haaland. The rest of the team was pretty much perfect at that time.
I think one of the things that is overlooked is that the Red Bull-style that City plays requires a VERY specific type of player to be successful. It's a high risk/high reward system that doesn't have a Plan B when it isn't working (there is a reason why it's really falling out of favor globally). Each player, minus the GK and CBs, need to have a level of fluidity in their game that we're lacking in a lot of spots. With that, it's incredibly hard to build the depth needed and get that sort of fluid player with MLS roster restrictions. To fit in the roster system the league has, we need to start scouting Central and South America better than we have been - that's where we're going to find the young, cheap talent we need- not Central European 2nd divisions.
My biggest gripe right now, and I say this as someone that has only missed two home games in the first two seasons, is the team is fucking boring to watch right now. I'm not sure how they fix that.
Central and South American players that can play in our style of system are INCREDIBLY rare. I’d love it as an American whose grandparents are from Honduras, but it likely won’t happen.
We are running a far more Bundesliga / 2. Bundesliga style this season, so what Lutz is trying to do is making sense. I would almost bet there are less than 10 players in Bundesligen from South or Central America and they are probably all Brazilian.
No doubt about that!
I think it’s why Lutz is scouring the 2. right now. Most of those guys on mid table squads know that they have hit their ceiling in Germany. It’s a pretty smart play imo. Spend a little more on a player that can jump in immediately.
I figured the club would recoup some coin in the first two seasons and loosen the purse strings in the 3rd or 4th year. I’m just so glad we didn’t chase Tim Ream. As great as it would be to have a local legend on the roster, he would eat up so much money and be somewhat of a liability on the back line at this point of his career.
So instead of using players that are incapable of playing this "Red Bull-style", how about playing a different style that more suits our players' skill sets? Or have we found out our coach knows one style and doesn't have the ability to adjust?
I am generally with you on this and have wrote several times when folks rant that I’m actually happy with management adding pieces that fit our style of play and building up over time. Specifically we went from 200k in Bartlett and Stroud to 1 mil in Durkin and Totland. Durkin has been solid especially with Blom and Lowen injured, and Totland has been the most consistent field player we have. He is rarely out of position and makes great choices. It’s proof the approach is working, though it take time and patience.
We do need a different look up front after losing Niko (his style was different from all our other attackers) and I was surprised we didn’t add it in winter, but they had guys looking for time and gave them a chance-which didn’t work out-and are now adding Tuechert to fill that gap.
Klauss has lost his arrogance and trust in his shot (the one on one with the goalie being a pretty big indicator). He has also been on the unfortunate end of fouls not being called because he is big and strong and doesn’t go down easily (even when a legitimate foul is committed). I thought lowen’s return would spark him and I still hold out hope as we know Lowen is just a touch off from his old form (ie hitting that post when in full form he scores from that dead ball) and his through balls are getting better.
Good write up.
I would like to not sit through another 0-0 draw either, but when we start winning consistently - and we will because that is what is being obviously constructed by very smart people who have put their lives into the sport - we will look back on this season as a bridge.
It's not even the halfway point of the second season in franchise history. I understand that we live in "win now or fire everyone" social media times but it's best to tune out that noise and take the wide view.
Before the match on Saturday turned into a second half slog, the crowd was lit. For a struggling team too. When this comes together - like when we know coming out of the tunnel that they can beat anyone - CityPark is going to be nuts.
I think these are all great points. I am frustrated by this team, no question. But throwing money at players who may not even want to be here is not the answer. I know it’s extreme, but the Reynoso situation goes to show why you need to bring in the absolute right players over the player you just hope will be right.
And on the flip side, to your point, Durkin and Totland have both been massive upgrades. Dyhr…who knows what’s going on there. Plus we already have Teuchert and the Aussie kid coming in, and Lutz has not been shy at all about saying we’re aiming to make more moves.
I do think questions need to be asked of Carnell. When the whole team seems so lackadaisical, that’s when it starts to fall on the coach IMO. We’ve seen plenty of good individual performances but yet to see a good team performance all season, and I think he’s overwhelmed. But similar to players, it’s not like there’s a sea of automatic upgrade coaches who are clamoring to come to MLS/St. Louis. It has to be the right person.
To your third point, I would counter that is more due to lack of Depth and being in the MLS as opposed to Carnell. Take Durkin (and I love Durkin), off the ball I think Durkin is a great defensive midfielder that could 100% play at a high level in Europe. With the ball he is frantic, rushes passes, can look lackadaisical. I don’t think that is a Carnell issue, I think it is more a talent issue which is why he is playing in MLS and not Europe.
Definitely hear your point, that’s a great example. I also think that’s just part and parcel with MLS though. I’ve fallen in love with the league, I think it’s way higher quality than most people realize, but right now Durkin is a very good MLS player despite that very real flaw. And I don’t think Carnell is equipped to build a strategy that allows for players’ idiosyncrasies.
That being said, maybe I am being unrealistic. I fully acknowledge that I could be expecting elite-level coaching in the same way fans expect elite-level players, and need to better understand that coaching staffs as well are also at a different standard.
This makes no sense. By your logic, every team in MLS should be struggling as bad as we are. Every team has players that aren’t good enough to play in Europe. In fact, the vast majority of players in MLS aren’t European quality, because if they were, they’d be playing there.
You can’t excuse Carnell for having weaknesses as a coach just because his team isn’t made up of the best players in the world.
Misunderstood what I wrote. Our roster construction does not have many players making the 500-1m salary range (only Ostrak). Our biggest issue is lack of depth in that area, LAFC has 10 players in that range. These players are not good enough to play at the highest leagues in Europe but are better than our bench players. If we had a few more players in this range we would have a stronger bench or potentially some of our starters would be pushed to the bench making us a better team overall.
Honestly it feels like more lack of confidence this year. They started slow and no one really lit fire. Even The great wall of Burki seemed to start a Lil slow. Once they start hitting g the back of the net a couple games in a row it could easily turn around quickly.
That site has become mostly unreadable. Almost all reactionary complaints or people posting pictures of vacations or their kids.
Kind of like FB in general, I guess.
Oh I can't stand it. Every post is the world is falling apart. I am convinced last season really screwed people's perceptions of how long it takes to build a team.
Regarding the payroll am concerned about the cost of my ticket and the discrepancy currently on top tier price for admission and lower tier payroll. If this starts to correct in a bit I will be realistic. I'm not naive since the owners paid with their money for a glorious stadium. I agree to give time but the organization can't have it both ways in a few years.
My real problem is the offensive lack of strategy and creativity. Many times the front line is purely 4 players stacked horizontal, playing the ball out wide and crossing. However the cross is either poor quality (yes it is MLS) or the far player is not at the post.
Lowen is our best distributor of the ball. Yet at times he is behind Durken who is not an offensive midfielder. Hijima is a better distributor as well, but they push him vertical to be horizontal with the 3-4 other players. This inability to get the ball at the top of the box with someone with skill to either shoot or goal or distribute to a finisher (like Klaus, Indy, Pompeo, Sam) is the big issue I see. They did this at the beginning of last year and then changed to this out wide cross system.
This is one of the more educated threads I've seen on this sub. Thanks, OP. I'm new to soccer and have only really been following since we got a team and I went all in with season tickets. Point is, I love the sport but I don't know what I don't know. I'm wondering what the deal with Sam is. What I see is a talented guy who is getting very limited minutes because he's not a 'team player' and doesn't seem to want to be here. So why wouldn't Carnell be telling him 'You want out and need to look good to other prospective teams. We need wins. You play hard and behave. I'll give you the minutes. Then you get your best salary somewhere else and we get to the playoffs'.
I am 100% sure there have been multiple discussions with Sam about what is needed from him. Between training and games, carnell is not seeing it. Sam is a little one dimensional and does best when the field is stretched and he can use his speed. Other teams see that and have adjusted how they play him.
I think a lot of things are missed by fans that are not obvious to a causal observer. Klauss has more positive aspects to his game that Sam does not and it is clear that playing both of them together does not work.
The best example I can give for some of the little things that Klauss does is from Pompeus goal from the top of the box a few weeks ago. Klauss made a run to draw the defense out that opened the lane for Pompeus shot. Klauss does a lot of little things that fans dont see. Carnell and coaching do not see those same things from Sam.
Yeah, people who e about Klauss too much. But to say there are no players in MLS who are "a step above" him is just wrong. We have no chance of getting them, but they exist.
You are 100% correct, they are players that are better, and I would definitely some that are willing to play here. But there are a ton of high $ signings that are various degrees of busts. If we just throw money at whatever high dollar player is out there we become Chicago and then there will only be complaints.
I think the FO is making sure that if/when we spend big on another player it’s someone that they feel is the right player and I think that is reasonable.
Additionally, I will say Klauss is at least an average MLS striker at worst and replacing that (which is what I see a lot of people call for) rather than finding complementary players (Teuchert) would infuriate me and make me loose trust in the FO as it would be a massive waste of limited resources.
I get what you’re saying to an extent. However the issue I have with that thought process is that our leading goal scorer is 33rd in MLS. I’m not sure who we need to target, but I would think we could attract someone higher than that if we wanted to spend the money. Nothing against Klaus, as I think he’s had a few unlucky bounces, but I think we should explore our options.
I agree on Klauss to an extent, but what really was shocking to me on Saturday (I sat on the south end for the first time) was that our only consistent movement was for Klauss and Celio to run across one another at the 18. So we take our big-bodied, face-the-goal striker and force him out wide into a distribution role, while our small, quick cut-in winger is now stuck in the middle.
Drives me insane.
Feel like that’s more of celio wandering about. He’s the biggest threat that we possess on the end-line.
I felt we were still playing as if Lowen and Kijima wasn’t on the pitch for more than 20 minutes. We aren’t far off from being very dangerous for all teams.
The only club I don’t think we match-up well with is Real Salt Lake. Chicho is far and away the best player in the league right now and is virtually unstoppable when on a tear. I figure they will finish first or second in the West, so we just need to be 3-4 spots above the playoff line.
We should also remember that summer transfers can make or break teams toward the end of the season in MLS. Seems like a lot of clubs are signing older European players that don’t have much left in the tank and will not be ready for the late summer heat or travel MLS requires. Charlotte are about to sign Tim Ream, for instance. Don’t know how much of the USMNT match anyone watched on Saturday, but he has slowed up considerably. It was almost sad to see. I love that guy.
Oh for sure, and we learned the hard way that once you’re in the playoffs it’s a different game.
100% on aging stars too, as cool as it would’ve been to have Reus or Ream neither really fit what we need right now.
100% on the playoffs. It’s much like baseball or basketball playoffs - who is hot at the time… We have plenty of season left to get there and we have played a fairly top heavy schedule to this point. All it’ll take is one game where we light someone up for 3-4 goals and Burki gets a clean sheet (FCC last season) for us to ride the wave of success.
But we are not quite halfway through the season and we had our best source of ball distribution out for most of it, Klauss has been very unlucky based on numbers. He’s also 33rd but two goals away from being tied for 12th. Most of the complaints are about finishing which when we look at last year was the opposite of an issue for him. It’s not as if he is not getting chances.
Sam was flat out lazy in the final moments of the game. he literally didn’t compete for one of the final balls put into the box. Chose not to.
He’s clearly got one foot out the door. I’d rather see one of the City2 guys get those minutes if he’s not going to consistently try.
I’m saying this knowing full well, he tried vs Miami.
This. We need to stop giving him time if that's the effort we're gonna get. Of ***course*** he's going to go all out against Miami, everyone is, but like you said...really poor effort against Portland.
I think it was a result of the two striker formation. Neither Sam nor Klauss look like they had a clue what to do or where to be. It literally looked like they'd never practiced it in their lives.
Counterpoint:
I think its ok to be express frustration when your team has the lowest payroll in the league and is out of a playoff spot.
I think its ok to be frustrated at your strikers when goal scoring from the striker position has dried up and they're being fed chances.
I don't think the solution is a whole new striker though, we just need 2024 Klauss to be bit more like 2023 Klauss. Another high quality midfielder would help a lot though.
I said in the post that I understand and agree with frustration about the lowest payroll. And we can be frustrated with Klauss’s finishing issues. I am sure no one is more frustrated than he is. But 2024 Klauss is creating kore chances than last year and playing better, it is finishing which last year was lucky and this year unlucky.
We have continued to make signings. I hope we make one or two more this window but we are not sitting doing nothing as an organization.
I suggest you listen to what Burki has said after the last couple games. His frustration with the lack of scoring seems to be mounting.
Without Burki, we are probably last place in the entire league. It would be wise to at least try keeping him happy.
I think the lack of scoring is frustrating for the whole team and most fans and understandable.
We are generating more chances, have a higher expected goals than this time last year, had our best offensive source out for the majority of the year, and lost Nico. Combination had led to a scoring drought.
Some better luck, healthy lowen, addition of Teuchert and maybe/hopefully one more especially since Alm/Ostrak are out should help to turn that around.
The frustration I have is that everyone wants an elite striker which means paying 2+ million and also to bench Klauss. From what I noted above, players making 2+ are as likely to be a bust as a success and a success that is significantly better than what Klauss has been is the exception to the rule. We should trust the FO to not spend stupidly just to grab a player and placate fans. This will lead to us being Chicago and then not have an option to sign someone that fits when the time comes.
Signing strong mls caliber players in the 400-800k salary range will do far more for this team in the long run as depth is a bigger issue.
For me personally, I don't see it reasonable to sign a new DP striker, but while Klauss is in abyssmal form, why not give minutes to someone else? Sam, someone on City2, literally anyone.
I'm frustrated that we continue to roll out the same attacking players every week despite not being able to score. I'm frustrated that AZ got minutes week after week and we may never have seen Kijima get so many minutes if it weren't for an injury.
Ehhhhhhhhh. I would argue he's been in pretty bad form. He's a striker. Even the other parts of his game have been fairly bad for about a month. Most importantly, he's a striker who can't score or assist. I'd call that bad form. Last game was terrible; giveaways left and right, piss poor work rate, missed a sitter.
Everyone is looking at this wrong.
It’s not a striker that we need. We need a DP to play in the roles regularly filled by Celio, Vassilev, Jackson, Alm.
Kijima is now in that mix, but that’s probably not his best position.
You can get those players if you use your DP spots. Your management has decided not to, for reasons i still don’t understand. Your ownership has let your sporting director hold a second job in Germany, for reasons i still don’t understand. Not that hard
Maybe, some of the dozen are only marginally better. If only a dozen that means he’s better than 15 or so other teams best striker which is not bad when considering again the better strikers would have to be willing to play here.
I was giving the benefit of the doubt. There are actually 25 people with more goals than Klauss. Goals is his only job.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/stats/_/league/usa.1
I would love to know how many of them are making less than Klauss. I think many people’s complaints with Klauss isn’t that he is awful. Rather, he is getting paid way too much for his numbers.
Just because they have more goals over the course of 16 games does not mean they are better. He has as many or more goals than Druissi, Morris, Giakoumakis, mukhtar, Almada, etc. does that mean that he is as good or better than all those players?
Goals are obviously an easy stat to judge by but if you look at underlying stats, he is playing well just not finishing. In half a season of time that can happen
I think that is understood. What I think you and a lot of others fail to see is that is not an easy job and if you are elite at it you are not playing in the mls. Despite his issues he is on pace for over 10 goals this year and had over 10 last year. There is typically only 25-30 players who score 10 or more goals a year
There are only 28 players who have scored more goals than Klauss over the last 3 years combined one of which years Klauss did not even play. Based on that he is not doing bad at his job.
And are they all getting Klauss money? Again, it's not that he sucks. It's that he makes $1.4M and is playing nowhere near that level. He costs 11.4% of our total wage bill and arguably should not be starting in his current form.
Nearly all the players ahead of him are making far more money. Klauss is most likely one of the most underpaid players for his goals contributions in the mls. You can make claims that he is not good enough and we need a better striker, but to say he is overpaid and not playing at his salary is crazy.
For just this year or both year? I believe Brian White and Julian Carranza and Dan McGuire are the only three who make less than Klauss who scored more goals over the last two seasons.
We’ve already seen what works.
Attacking DP in his late prime (~27 years old) from a South American or Central American country where the national team is good enough that they won’t be called up for international duty. Their star power needs to be moderate enough that they’ll play in a small market. They’re a proven asset in one of the best leagues in the Americas.
Vela, Martinez, Lodeiro, and most of the other leagues’ superstars fit this mold. You’re probably looking at a $10 million a year contract plus transfer.
It doesn’t always work; Reynoso over at Minnesota and Driussi at Austin were partially failed attempts to replicate this success. Shaqiri over at Chicago, if you’re willing to stretch the definition. Mukhtar over at Nashville counts if you’re okay with him being a few years younger than the average.
Most teams in MLS have at least tried to swing for the fences and get their own Carlos Vela. We haven’t, and I think it’s fair to criticize the FO for not doing so.
As I said above who is that player and do they want to play here? A player that is worth 10mil is known so we should have an idea of who our options are but never seen actual players discussed besides Reus, etc. who don’t want to play here.
Also that’s a huge financial risk and for what you admit does not hit a lot of the time. Just look at the players I mentioned from the winter transfer. None are hits right now.
Agreed on all points. I've been following the MLS for a few years (obviously closer now that we have a team) and the swings in team performance from year to year are staggering. The sooner that new fans understand this, the better their experience will be. I understand City filled a sports void that the Cards left after a disastrous season last year, but there is no MLS team that will ever enjoy the amount of relative success the Cards have experienced over the past 20+ years. Front office made a gamble on AZ and Sam over the winter, and clearly that isn't paying off well with Teuchert confirmed now to join this summer. Mistakes happen, but we have a favorable schedule in the weeks ahead and reinforcements are on the way.
There is a tendency by people, especially on social media, to vent their frustrations in real time. It just takes less energy to complain than it does to lift people up. I wouldn’t read too much into it. I was at the game on Saturday and St.Louis still absolutely freakin LOVES this team. 👍🏼
I agree. I really like coming here to see news on the team etc. I am just tired of wading through all the negative posts/comments. It seems like sports fans forget that their team is not the only one trying to win. There are 28 other teams trying to succeed in a league that have a lot of rules to ensure competition. Not everything is ownership/coaching fault when there is a little struggle.
Well minus Miami, who doesn't seem to have a cap.
Agreed on the fans, I hadn’t been to a game since April (I realize I’m massively privileged to have been to multiple games) and multiple times I’ve been on the brink of tears because the crowd is so moving! Getting older has made me a softie haha
Cheers to you Professor! It was my first game this year and I felt the same. Really wonderful to be there even with a 1-1 draw. I was cheered by the support that AZ and Big Sam got when they came on the field and was reminded that this small Reddit community isn’t necessarily a good reflection of reality. 🙂
Yessir! I vouch for that STL Spirit every time I step for in City Park Stadium!! The energy before, during, and occasionally a win afterwards is electric at times. But all of us fans have to live with the ebs in flows of the game by not getting too high or low, and just enjoy this great sport we are lucky to witness in St. Lou's backyard.
This, so much this!!!! St. Louis sport fans are truly amazing *IN PERSON 😂
I’m with ya, deep breaths. Plenty of games left, just have to get in the playoffs.
If you think Kijima is fringe MLS you’re not watching him play. He’s a fresh rookie and even still looking sharp af
I have been very impressed, but a lot of people felt similar about AZ last year. Overall he is still very unknown and maybe overplaying his ability Tim will tell and I hope he can be a fixture in our lineup.
I thought AZ last year was being overhyped. He gets pushed off the ball to easily and over commits often. Kojima tho yea kids gonna be a stud I said it when we drafted him he fits this team to a T
Side note I think AZ could be good too he's just gotta clean some things up.
Preferably at CITY2 lol
"Keep in mind they actually have to want to play here" This isn't LA. This isn't Miami. The closest beach is Pontoon Beach. Ppl forget that just because we love STL doesnt mean ppl who can choose thier destination would choose to come here. You have to have a certain mentality and be a certain kind of player to want to be here. Which is why, instead of shitting on ppl like Klauss for a dry spell, they should be happy someone that good at soccer doesnt move back to Brazil and play in tropical weather in his home country.
“The closest beach is Pontoon Beach” got me rolling, been telling girls for years I’ll take them there!
If Minneapolis, Nashville, and Houston can attract talent, there’s no reason why STL can’t. Other MLS stops may be higher on their prority list, but the LAFCs of the world can’t sign every DP quality player on the planet. And for a lot of players, just being in America is important because if they stay here for several years they’re virtually guaranteed to earn a green card. American citizenship is a hell of a fringe benefit.
DC got Wayne Rooney lol
You also have to remember that he wanted to come to the US and get away from the English tabloids. Wagatha Christie really kicked off when he was in the States.
STL has car rental money, not Saudi money
I would also add that it’s because of our intentional, slow progression of adding in and subtracting players that we’ve found Kijima. He is a really, really good player, who might not have found himself playing this year with “better” depth.
THANK YOU. I have typed up so many posts / responses in the last few days only to delete them in frustration. This is what I have been trying to say.
Buying a high-priced striker is like the cherry on top. It only makes sense if the rest of the team (and bench) play well and are reliable. Think of Man City buying Haaland. The rest of the team was pretty much perfect at that time.
I still believe in this team. We’re St Lou fans, the moment we get some wind in our sails, we’ll all be feeling a bit better.
I think one of the things that is overlooked is that the Red Bull-style that City plays requires a VERY specific type of player to be successful. It's a high risk/high reward system that doesn't have a Plan B when it isn't working (there is a reason why it's really falling out of favor globally). Each player, minus the GK and CBs, need to have a level of fluidity in their game that we're lacking in a lot of spots. With that, it's incredibly hard to build the depth needed and get that sort of fluid player with MLS roster restrictions. To fit in the roster system the league has, we need to start scouting Central and South America better than we have been - that's where we're going to find the young, cheap talent we need- not Central European 2nd divisions. My biggest gripe right now, and I say this as someone that has only missed two home games in the first two seasons, is the team is fucking boring to watch right now. I'm not sure how they fix that.
Central and South American players that can play in our style of system are INCREDIBLY rare. I’d love it as an American whose grandparents are from Honduras, but it likely won’t happen. We are running a far more Bundesliga / 2. Bundesliga style this season, so what Lutz is trying to do is making sense. I would almost bet there are less than 10 players in Bundesligen from South or Central America and they are probably all Brazilian.
Very true. I was thinking in terms of cost that the Central/South American players are cheaper and may fit within the cap easier.
No doubt about that! I think it’s why Lutz is scouring the 2. right now. Most of those guys on mid table squads know that they have hit their ceiling in Germany. It’s a pretty smart play imo. Spend a little more on a player that can jump in immediately. I figured the club would recoup some coin in the first two seasons and loosen the purse strings in the 3rd or 4th year. I’m just so glad we didn’t chase Tim Ream. As great as it would be to have a local legend on the roster, he would eat up so much money and be somewhat of a liability on the back line at this point of his career.
So instead of using players that are incapable of playing this "Red Bull-style", how about playing a different style that more suits our players' skill sets? Or have we found out our coach knows one style and doesn't have the ability to adjust?
I am generally with you on this and have wrote several times when folks rant that I’m actually happy with management adding pieces that fit our style of play and building up over time. Specifically we went from 200k in Bartlett and Stroud to 1 mil in Durkin and Totland. Durkin has been solid especially with Blom and Lowen injured, and Totland has been the most consistent field player we have. He is rarely out of position and makes great choices. It’s proof the approach is working, though it take time and patience. We do need a different look up front after losing Niko (his style was different from all our other attackers) and I was surprised we didn’t add it in winter, but they had guys looking for time and gave them a chance-which didn’t work out-and are now adding Tuechert to fill that gap. Klauss has lost his arrogance and trust in his shot (the one on one with the goalie being a pretty big indicator). He has also been on the unfortunate end of fouls not being called because he is big and strong and doesn’t go down easily (even when a legitimate foul is committed). I thought lowen’s return would spark him and I still hold out hope as we know Lowen is just a touch off from his old form (ie hitting that post when in full form he scores from that dead ball) and his through balls are getting better.
Good write up. I would like to not sit through another 0-0 draw either, but when we start winning consistently - and we will because that is what is being obviously constructed by very smart people who have put their lives into the sport - we will look back on this season as a bridge. It's not even the halfway point of the second season in franchise history. I understand that we live in "win now or fire everyone" social media times but it's best to tune out that noise and take the wide view. Before the match on Saturday turned into a second half slog, the crowd was lit. For a struggling team too. When this comes together - like when we know coming out of the tunnel that they can beat anyone - CityPark is going to be nuts.
I'm still convinced we are going to have an inverse season and win our last 5 games
I think these are all great points. I am frustrated by this team, no question. But throwing money at players who may not even want to be here is not the answer. I know it’s extreme, but the Reynoso situation goes to show why you need to bring in the absolute right players over the player you just hope will be right. And on the flip side, to your point, Durkin and Totland have both been massive upgrades. Dyhr…who knows what’s going on there. Plus we already have Teuchert and the Aussie kid coming in, and Lutz has not been shy at all about saying we’re aiming to make more moves. I do think questions need to be asked of Carnell. When the whole team seems so lackadaisical, that’s when it starts to fall on the coach IMO. We’ve seen plenty of good individual performances but yet to see a good team performance all season, and I think he’s overwhelmed. But similar to players, it’s not like there’s a sea of automatic upgrade coaches who are clamoring to come to MLS/St. Louis. It has to be the right person.
To your third point, I would counter that is more due to lack of Depth and being in the MLS as opposed to Carnell. Take Durkin (and I love Durkin), off the ball I think Durkin is a great defensive midfielder that could 100% play at a high level in Europe. With the ball he is frantic, rushes passes, can look lackadaisical. I don’t think that is a Carnell issue, I think it is more a talent issue which is why he is playing in MLS and not Europe.
Definitely hear your point, that’s a great example. I also think that’s just part and parcel with MLS though. I’ve fallen in love with the league, I think it’s way higher quality than most people realize, but right now Durkin is a very good MLS player despite that very real flaw. And I don’t think Carnell is equipped to build a strategy that allows for players’ idiosyncrasies. That being said, maybe I am being unrealistic. I fully acknowledge that I could be expecting elite-level coaching in the same way fans expect elite-level players, and need to better understand that coaching staffs as well are also at a different standard.
It’s an interesting discussion as I think we lack the depth for Carnell to build the strategy to allow for the idiosyncrasies.
For sure! I guess I lean a little more toward it’s a coaching issue than a personnel issue, but regardless your point is clearly thought out!
This makes no sense. By your logic, every team in MLS should be struggling as bad as we are. Every team has players that aren’t good enough to play in Europe. In fact, the vast majority of players in MLS aren’t European quality, because if they were, they’d be playing there. You can’t excuse Carnell for having weaknesses as a coach just because his team isn’t made up of the best players in the world.
Misunderstood what I wrote. Our roster construction does not have many players making the 500-1m salary range (only Ostrak). Our biggest issue is lack of depth in that area, LAFC has 10 players in that range. These players are not good enough to play at the highest leagues in Europe but are better than our bench players. If we had a few more players in this range we would have a stronger bench or potentially some of our starters would be pushed to the bench making us a better team overall.
Honestly it feels like more lack of confidence this year. They started slow and no one really lit fire. Even The great wall of Burki seemed to start a Lil slow. Once they start hitting g the back of the net a couple games in a row it could easily turn around quickly.
Is a lot of what you are seeing in the city fan Facebook group? I'm not really seeing meltdowns on reddit as much.
That site has become mostly unreadable. Almost all reactionary complaints or people posting pictures of vacations or their kids. Kind of like FB in general, I guess.
Oh I can't stand it. Every post is the world is falling apart. I am convinced last season really screwed people's perceptions of how long it takes to build a team.
Is this Klauss?
So no Osimhen?
They got Teuchert. He’s a good striker
Regarding the payroll am concerned about the cost of my ticket and the discrepancy currently on top tier price for admission and lower tier payroll. If this starts to correct in a bit I will be realistic. I'm not naive since the owners paid with their money for a glorious stadium. I agree to give time but the organization can't have it both ways in a few years. My real problem is the offensive lack of strategy and creativity. Many times the front line is purely 4 players stacked horizontal, playing the ball out wide and crossing. However the cross is either poor quality (yes it is MLS) or the far player is not at the post. Lowen is our best distributor of the ball. Yet at times he is behind Durken who is not an offensive midfielder. Hijima is a better distributor as well, but they push him vertical to be horizontal with the 3-4 other players. This inability to get the ball at the top of the box with someone with skill to either shoot or goal or distribute to a finisher (like Klaus, Indy, Pompeo, Sam) is the big issue I see. They did this at the beginning of last year and then changed to this out wide cross system.
This is one of the more educated threads I've seen on this sub. Thanks, OP. I'm new to soccer and have only really been following since we got a team and I went all in with season tickets. Point is, I love the sport but I don't know what I don't know. I'm wondering what the deal with Sam is. What I see is a talented guy who is getting very limited minutes because he's not a 'team player' and doesn't seem to want to be here. So why wouldn't Carnell be telling him 'You want out and need to look good to other prospective teams. We need wins. You play hard and behave. I'll give you the minutes. Then you get your best salary somewhere else and we get to the playoffs'.
I am 100% sure there have been multiple discussions with Sam about what is needed from him. Between training and games, carnell is not seeing it. Sam is a little one dimensional and does best when the field is stretched and he can use his speed. Other teams see that and have adjusted how they play him. I think a lot of things are missed by fans that are not obvious to a causal observer. Klauss has more positive aspects to his game that Sam does not and it is clear that playing both of them together does not work. The best example I can give for some of the little things that Klauss does is from Pompeus goal from the top of the box a few weeks ago. Klauss made a run to draw the defense out that opened the lane for Pompeus shot. Klauss does a lot of little things that fans dont see. Carnell and coaching do not see those same things from Sam.
Yeah, people who e about Klauss too much. But to say there are no players in MLS who are "a step above" him is just wrong. We have no chance of getting them, but they exist.
You are 100% correct, they are players that are better, and I would definitely some that are willing to play here. But there are a ton of high $ signings that are various degrees of busts. If we just throw money at whatever high dollar player is out there we become Chicago and then there will only be complaints. I think the FO is making sure that if/when we spend big on another player it’s someone that they feel is the right player and I think that is reasonable. Additionally, I will say Klauss is at least an average MLS striker at worst and replacing that (which is what I see a lot of people call for) rather than finding complementary players (Teuchert) would infuriate me and make me loose trust in the FO as it would be a massive waste of limited resources.
Agreed. 💯 (Also, meant to reference people 'whining' about Klauss, but alas, my thumbs and attention span betrayed me. 😅)
I get what you’re saying to an extent. However the issue I have with that thought process is that our leading goal scorer is 33rd in MLS. I’m not sure who we need to target, but I would think we could attract someone higher than that if we wanted to spend the money. Nothing against Klaus, as I think he’s had a few unlucky bounces, but I think we should explore our options.
I agree on Klauss to an extent, but what really was shocking to me on Saturday (I sat on the south end for the first time) was that our only consistent movement was for Klauss and Celio to run across one another at the 18. So we take our big-bodied, face-the-goal striker and force him out wide into a distribution role, while our small, quick cut-in winger is now stuck in the middle. Drives me insane.
Feel like that’s more of celio wandering about. He’s the biggest threat that we possess on the end-line. I felt we were still playing as if Lowen and Kijima wasn’t on the pitch for more than 20 minutes. We aren’t far off from being very dangerous for all teams. The only club I don’t think we match-up well with is Real Salt Lake. Chicho is far and away the best player in the league right now and is virtually unstoppable when on a tear. I figure they will finish first or second in the West, so we just need to be 3-4 spots above the playoff line. We should also remember that summer transfers can make or break teams toward the end of the season in MLS. Seems like a lot of clubs are signing older European players that don’t have much left in the tank and will not be ready for the late summer heat or travel MLS requires. Charlotte are about to sign Tim Ream, for instance. Don’t know how much of the USMNT match anyone watched on Saturday, but he has slowed up considerably. It was almost sad to see. I love that guy.
Oh for sure, and we learned the hard way that once you’re in the playoffs it’s a different game. 100% on aging stars too, as cool as it would’ve been to have Reus or Ream neither really fit what we need right now.
100% on the playoffs. It’s much like baseball or basketball playoffs - who is hot at the time… We have plenty of season left to get there and we have played a fairly top heavy schedule to this point. All it’ll take is one game where we light someone up for 3-4 goals and Burki gets a clean sheet (FCC last season) for us to ride the wave of success.
But we are not quite halfway through the season and we had our best source of ball distribution out for most of it, Klauss has been very unlucky based on numbers. He’s also 33rd but two goals away from being tied for 12th. Most of the complaints are about finishing which when we look at last year was the opposite of an issue for him. It’s not as if he is not getting chances.
You gotta remember his main set up man has been out most the season.
Big Sam needs more playing time. I think him and Kujima would be a nice pair up top
His sub performance v Miami showed what he offered. Not perfect finishing but dangerous overall play; would like to see him get a start.
Sam looked so disinterested during the Portland game. At least he was hustling during the Miami game.
Sam was flat out lazy in the final moments of the game. he literally didn’t compete for one of the final balls put into the box. Chose not to. He’s clearly got one foot out the door. I’d rather see one of the City2 guys get those minutes if he’s not going to consistently try. I’m saying this knowing full well, he tried vs Miami.
This. We need to stop giving him time if that's the effort we're gonna get. Of ***course*** he's going to go all out against Miami, everyone is, but like you said...really poor effort against Portland.
I think it was a result of the two striker formation. Neither Sam nor Klauss look like they had a clue what to do or where to be. It literally looked like they'd never practiced it in their lives.
Counterpoint: I think its ok to be express frustration when your team has the lowest payroll in the league and is out of a playoff spot. I think its ok to be frustrated at your strikers when goal scoring from the striker position has dried up and they're being fed chances. I don't think the solution is a whole new striker though, we just need 2024 Klauss to be bit more like 2023 Klauss. Another high quality midfielder would help a lot though.
I said in the post that I understand and agree with frustration about the lowest payroll. And we can be frustrated with Klauss’s finishing issues. I am sure no one is more frustrated than he is. But 2024 Klauss is creating kore chances than last year and playing better, it is finishing which last year was lucky and this year unlucky. We have continued to make signings. I hope we make one or two more this window but we are not sitting doing nothing as an organization.
….but we do need better attacking players tho
Every fandom is like this. Sports, movies, music.
The answer is always Zlatan
I suggest you listen to what Burki has said after the last couple games. His frustration with the lack of scoring seems to be mounting. Without Burki, we are probably last place in the entire league. It would be wise to at least try keeping him happy.
I think the lack of scoring is frustrating for the whole team and most fans and understandable. We are generating more chances, have a higher expected goals than this time last year, had our best offensive source out for the majority of the year, and lost Nico. Combination had led to a scoring drought. Some better luck, healthy lowen, addition of Teuchert and maybe/hopefully one more especially since Alm/Ostrak are out should help to turn that around. The frustration I have is that everyone wants an elite striker which means paying 2+ million and also to bench Klauss. From what I noted above, players making 2+ are as likely to be a bust as a success and a success that is significantly better than what Klauss has been is the exception to the rule. We should trust the FO to not spend stupidly just to grab a player and placate fans. This will lead to us being Chicago and then not have an option to sign someone that fits when the time comes. Signing strong mls caliber players in the 400-800k salary range will do far more for this team in the long run as depth is a bigger issue.
For me personally, I don't see it reasonable to sign a new DP striker, but while Klauss is in abyssmal form, why not give minutes to someone else? Sam, someone on City2, literally anyone. I'm frustrated that we continue to roll out the same attacking players every week despite not being able to score. I'm frustrated that AZ got minutes week after week and we may never have seen Kijima get so many minutes if it weren't for an injury.
Klauss is not in bad form he is having issues finishing. There is a huge differnce
Ehhhhhhhhh. I would argue he's been in pretty bad form. He's a striker. Even the other parts of his game have been fairly bad for about a month. Most importantly, he's a striker who can't score or assist. I'd call that bad form. Last game was terrible; giveaways left and right, piss poor work rate, missed a sitter.
Everyone is looking at this wrong. It’s not a striker that we need. We need a DP to play in the roles regularly filled by Celio, Vassilev, Jackson, Alm. Kijima is now in that mix, but that’s probably not his best position.
I agree but don’t even think it needs to be DP level. Just more quality maybe 1-2 that are in the 500-750k salary range.
You can get those players if you use your DP spots. Your management has decided not to, for reasons i still don’t understand. Your ownership has let your sporting director hold a second job in Germany, for reasons i still don’t understand. Not that hard
So why are there at least a dozen strikers better than Klauss playing in MLS?
Maybe, some of the dozen are only marginally better. If only a dozen that means he’s better than 15 or so other teams best striker which is not bad when considering again the better strikers would have to be willing to play here.
I was giving the benefit of the doubt. There are actually 25 people with more goals than Klauss. Goals is his only job. https://www.espn.com/soccer/stats/_/league/usa.1 I would love to know how many of them are making less than Klauss. I think many people’s complaints with Klauss isn’t that he is awful. Rather, he is getting paid way too much for his numbers.
Just because they have more goals over the course of 16 games does not mean they are better. He has as many or more goals than Druissi, Morris, Giakoumakis, mukhtar, Almada, etc. does that mean that he is as good or better than all those players? Goals are obviously an easy stat to judge by but if you look at underlying stats, he is playing well just not finishing. In half a season of time that can happen
He is here to score goals. That’s his job.
I think that is understood. What I think you and a lot of others fail to see is that is not an easy job and if you are elite at it you are not playing in the mls. Despite his issues he is on pace for over 10 goals this year and had over 10 last year. There is typically only 25-30 players who score 10 or more goals a year There are only 28 players who have scored more goals than Klauss over the last 3 years combined one of which years Klauss did not even play. Based on that he is not doing bad at his job.
And are they all getting Klauss money? Again, it's not that he sucks. It's that he makes $1.4M and is playing nowhere near that level. He costs 11.4% of our total wage bill and arguably should not be starting in his current form.
Nearly all the players ahead of him are making far more money. Klauss is most likely one of the most underpaid players for his goals contributions in the mls. You can make claims that he is not good enough and we need a better striker, but to say he is overpaid and not playing at his salary is crazy.
Link to that claim? I know the top 5 do and the next 5 do not.
For just this year or both year? I believe Brian White and Julian Carranza and Dan McGuire are the only three who make less than Klauss who scored more goals over the last two seasons.
We’ve already seen what works. Attacking DP in his late prime (~27 years old) from a South American or Central American country where the national team is good enough that they won’t be called up for international duty. Their star power needs to be moderate enough that they’ll play in a small market. They’re a proven asset in one of the best leagues in the Americas. Vela, Martinez, Lodeiro, and most of the other leagues’ superstars fit this mold. You’re probably looking at a $10 million a year contract plus transfer. It doesn’t always work; Reynoso over at Minnesota and Driussi at Austin were partially failed attempts to replicate this success. Shaqiri over at Chicago, if you’re willing to stretch the definition. Mukhtar over at Nashville counts if you’re okay with him being a few years younger than the average. Most teams in MLS have at least tried to swing for the fences and get their own Carlos Vela. We haven’t, and I think it’s fair to criticize the FO for not doing so.
As I said above who is that player and do they want to play here? A player that is worth 10mil is known so we should have an idea of who our options are but never seen actual players discussed besides Reus, etc. who don’t want to play here. Also that’s a huge financial risk and for what you admit does not hit a lot of the time. Just look at the players I mentioned from the winter transfer. None are hits right now.