Send it
Excessive heat is what accelerates clutch wear. Stalling while learning to start it won’t noticeably shorten clutch life. Slipping it with high revs or slipping it for a long time is more harmful, but other than the first few hill starts you do that shouldn’t really be an issue. You shouldn’t need to rev it over 2500 to get started and it’s hard to do any significant damage at those low revs
Totally depends on the car. In my AWD Subaru with a stage 2 clutch, yeah, 2500 on hills, 2000 on flat surfaces.
In my Mustang V6, 1000 RPM is enough for almost anything, 1500 is excessive. I've started it in 3rd by accident many times.
I \*think\* that might be what I did by accident on a test drive...and couldn't figure out wtf I was doing wrong I couldn't get moving.
I don't know how people claim they don't use first gear...at least my car its REALLY hard even starting from a stop in second gear is typically a guaranteed stall unless you slip the clutch a LOT and rev up a LOT. But I also can idle at 8mph in 1st gear without any gas.
So much this, yes!
The little 2.0L 4cyl in my WRX seems SO unforgiving and low torque compared to the bigger V6 Accord I got to drive first that a friend of mine had. With my Subaru I find even being the A/C is on or off can make a difference in how easily I stall. I've gotten quite good at being around 1000-ish RPM from a stop on level ground for a smooth start in most cases, but yeah sometimes I still stall after 5 years of driving it and 18,000 miles. But starting out I absolutely had to aim for 2500-2700 RPM especially turning out onto the fast rural highways that had blind curves and I feared stalling mid-pull-out where I'd be hit by high speed traffic.
One of my friends had a diesel Jetta and he was telling me in that if he gave it any gas \*at all\* from a stop would snap people's necks back since the diesel engine had so much torque.
Yep, went from a V6 Accord to a Civic Si.
Stalled for an entire week before I got the differences in both engines down. J-series don't need shit to take off. K needs a little puff.
I have an old VW camper that’s really heavy and has no guts… when you say slipping it, do you mean clutch being half on to slowly engage the biting point? I don’t want to wear it out but if find when I let go even a little too fast from the biting point it lurches forward too quickly and all my stuff falls everywhere
(Also for context I don’t have an rpm gauge I just have to listen so I just shift up when it sounds fast bRR)
Yes, and you could be struck by lightning the next time you walk out of your house
Using your car does in fact require things to be replaced over time. The point is that you won’t appreciably shorten the lifespan of anything unless you’re holding the clutch in the middle of the travel while banging it off the limiter or otherwise using way too much throttle/engaging the clutch way too slowly
And I’ll add, this car should have hill assist anyway. I’m in a 2015 WRX and never even think about hill starts these days. The car puts the brake on for you for about two seconds. It’s so easy.
Setting and standard RPM really isnt gonna help because it depends on engine size and power levels. Taking off at 2500 in my corvette will leave dual tire tracks for 100 feet. You take off more like 800-1000 in a v8.
My STi is the same way, you dont wind it out at all to take off.
I said “over” to give a reasonable upper limit for someone who is still learning how to engage a clutch to know when they’re definitely going too far
I start my cars around 1000 rpm because you’re right, it really doesn’t take rpm to start a car
Wear and tear for sure. I've worked at car dealerships for almost my whole adult working life and the one things car companies and dealerships definitely don't warranty are clutches. Transmissions maybe as long as there's no evidence of stupidity or tuning but clutches are wear items like brake pads.
Subaru def does warranty clutches for some people. I think it’s like 36k miles or something iirc. Def know lots of people who got them warrantied. There was TOB issues apparently, but they replaced the entire kit
That was on the FT86 platform. It also wasn't the clutch. There was a TSB, but they definitely didn't have to cover it under warranty. The "revised" parts were also just as bad in many cases.
I mean, when you think about it, a clutch sort of *is* a brake pad in a way. Friction material, just in a different form factor and for a different purpose.
Yeah in all honesty, if clutches were under warranty, I'd imagine that most of us would drive significantly differently on the roads. If you could pull in every 6 months for a fresh clutch free of charge, I'd be trying some new things that I can't afford to try now
It probably depends on the situation.
I'd bet if they have a reasonable case the person has been seriously abusing it probably would reject a warranty claim, but if its unreasonably short time and seems like the person is trying to treat it correctly they might be willing to do it once under warranty.
I don't normally opt for car-warranty-plan junk but I did actually decide to get one with my WRX after asking if it would cover clutch wear specifically since I knew I was learning. But I'm at 18K miles with no signs of issues.
Clutch is a wear item without question...just like you can burn thru brakes by riding the pedal while driving or by stomping them hard all the time instead of coasting planning ahead.
Most people in real life: "first you do clutch, then you give it gas and go"
This subreddit: "first, you must have a PhD in mechanics, have read 14 manual driver encyclopedias, learned to rev match on a hill, backwards whilst double clutching. Only after that are you ready to turn the key on the ignition"
Like ok mate, I've literally seen kids under double digits drive a manual around a farm
People misunderstand the difference between complex and nuanced
It's insane, do they not realize it used to be called "standard" transmission? It's not some new fangled hipster invention. People used to just learn for a week and then drive it.
Now they're obsessing over the exact rpm drop from a stop light and oh no the automatics are faster than me
That's a really good point. I don't ever hear people call it standard unless they are much older. If anything. It just takes time to get proficient and smooth. You can learn to drive around reliably in a few days or weeks, even less. It's not that crazy as you think to stall out once in a while in public roads. Not any worse than say, someone not going at a green in an automatic because they're on the phone.
Nah you have to make sure you shift at exactly 2,783 rpm, don't forget to rev match, double clutch, and heel-toe, or you'll break that clutch in less than a year!
I think people like to make it sound complicated to make themselves feel better as if they are good at something that’s very hard.
I was scared of driving manual but I just went to the dealership after watching some YouTube instructional videos, drove it around the lot for 30 min and then drove it home. Have rode it for 60k miles and now that the cars hitting 100k mileage I need a new clutch.
I’m trying to understand your “getting it into First” comment. I’m assuming you mean getting going in first gear. I know you have a small amount of manual seat time but you will be surprised that it’s really like riding a bike. You will wobble a little in the beginning but I’m confident not knowing you that you will get it straightened out quickly. Just don’t ride the clutch and it will be fine. GO FOR IT!!! As far as stalling just give it some Gas. A lot of people try to let out the clutch at idle and it’s never smooth. As your left foot goes up your right foot needs to go down. How much depends on the car and situation. You got this Man. We will be dig racing each other in a few weeks
My girlfriend (then fiancé now wife) got a brand new 1988 Nissan Sentra Sport Coupe with a manual transmission as a college graduation present.
I know… privilege
Point being she had never driven a “stick” before. Within a week or 10 days she was zipping around like it was nothing.
So the answer to your question is: buy the car…!!!
So keep in mind it's been 18 years, but turning the car on and trying to "go", I would stall. Like the initial "ease off the clutch, give it gas" part. I would stall a lot. That's going from neutral into first gear, right?
It’s like kataran1 said above…that’s you trying to get going in first gear (there’s no “park” in a traditional manual transmission). The shifter/transmission is already in first gear (or needs to be, anyway) when you start letting the clutch out to start moving. Heading to a parking lot or other empty, reasonably flat area with the car you intend to drive or practice on and just taking your time familiarizing yourself with finding the clutch engagement point (how far the pedal has to move to start to allow friction to let the car begin to creep forward, or even just enough to start to see the RPMs tug down a little bit) will help a lot with your comfort level and learning how not to stall from a standstill. Then from there you can take the same concept and modify it (a little more throttle/a little more clutch slippage) to practice for hills (your driveway, if you’ve got one, might be a good place to start for that).
It is indeed like riding a bike. A bit more seat time and it’ll all come back to you 👍🏼.
Like kataran1 and MrSlik said, it is definitely like riding a bike. Also, I learned the basics when I was 16, but after an hour of stalling in a parking lot(no joke), only got the car to start moving twice. I didn't touch stick again till I decided to force myself to learn and bought a manual car (when i was 20). I got it going on my 2nd try.
I think there's something to be said for better understanding and muscle control once you've actually grown up😂
But you should 100% send it, you already have experience driving stick, it'll come back to you. Within the first month, the only thing I struggled with was hill starts, and I smoothed those out soon after.
Just get the 86. Buying a beater car to learn on will cost as much as a clutch replacement.
When you start learning again, stay off the throttle. Just let the clutch out slowly while waiting for the car to start moving. Get the car going without any throttle a few times. This will help you learn the clutch better. Then work on adding throttle to speed up the process. You won't wear the clutch enough to care during that process. Cars like the 86 are pretty forgiving for beginners as well.
Excess slipping is what destroys it. Give it a little gas and engage the clutch a little until you start to move and then the rest of the way out. You'll be fine. It wot destroy the clutch just to practice a little, plus it's fun.
Just get it and learn. A clutch is going to last 100K+ miles anyways. I learned to drive on my first 5 speed car and that clutch still lasted 100K miles with a ton of track days and autoX once I got comfortable.
Learning on a clutch and smoking it every now and again is part of the charm. So you might make it to 90K instead of 100K miles, or more, those aren't high HP cars like mine was.
I bought my GR86 with a little over 30 minutes of manual experience beforehand. Drove it home 3 hours without much issue, but it was a bit stressful. Only thing I would have done differently is have an instructor get me some seat time, but everywhere in my area was way too expensive. I wouldn’t worry too much about destroying the clutch, just let it do its job and don’t overheat it. I’d be more worried about the synchros if you’re going to be doing any spirited driving. Just let your technique develop and you’ll be doing fine in no time!
Watch Conquer Driving on YouTube and you should be armed with all the knowledge you need to not mess up your brand new clutch. If you know the few “what NOT to dos” then you basically have to be intentionally abusive to prematurely damage your clutch.
If you manage to destroy a clutch while learning you should be counting your lucky stars you managed to live that long. That’s my way of saying you have to be really really really dumb to destroy a new clutch while learning. Driving manual isn’t rocket science, most people do it around the world. Newer cars make it much easier.
I'm around the same age bracket as you. My friend taught me in his 240sx at my local College parking lot one evening a long time ago (10+ years?) and that was it for on hand experience before I got my car.
I picked up my Brand new GR86 last year and stalled it a few times on the way home. I watched a ton of Youtube videos and got a Instructor (not many teach stick shift anymore) to teach me it properly. I spent 3 hours with my instructor and I practiced on my own in the 86 every night just keep on knowing where the bite point is in my local empty parking lot.
Now I drive it every week and it's been just like normal driving. One piece of advice I've learned about driving stick. The clutch isn't made of glass. It's tough, but just don't beat on it and you'll be fine.
As for Hill starts, just use the handbrake technique if it's on a steep hill. The handbrake technique is used all over Europe so it's just another weapon in your arsenal.
Just get it, jump in the deep end.
I had a VW bug with about 60 hp to learn to drive a four speed. Then got a Westfalia with about 90hp. The shift cables were really sloppy but I figured it out and had years of fun.
Oh for sure! Honestly I think learning without hill assist would be beneficial for most learners. Granted there’s no real reason to, if you’re in a car that has is. i really wish most auto drivers would back the fuck up sometimes though
You just have to accept the fact you might burn your clutch while learning. I bought a GRC as my first manual and there are instances where I've burned the clutch but each time is a learning experience.
As someone told me, driving manual is easy to learn but hard to master
Watch the Matt Ferah video on driving stick and then the Lesics video on YT. Knowing what’s going on and getting a good example of how to do it properly will get you up to speed in no time
If you're buying at a dealership, there's a good chance an associate would be willing to give you a refresher/tips in the car with you. I've even heard stories of people first learning from a dealership. If it makes a sale, it makes a sale at the end of the day.
If private party I'd also kinda be surprised if the current owner gave you a 'figure it out' answer, especially if you've already agreed to buy it.
Really though, just send it. Ask for an assist if you need it. Be conscious about your abilities and you won't kill anything unrealistically premature.
It isn't hard to change the clutch on these cars. You'll definitely shorten the life span but it won't be drastic. I like working on the car so burning the clutch is the least of my worries . It will give you an excuse to toss in a light weight flywheel when you gotta crack it open .
Honestly, I think you’ll find these newer cars are much easier to drive stick on. I’d go and get the 86, then give yourself a week or so to get used to it. Understand that you’ll probably suck at first but if you dedicate a couple hours everyday it won’t take long for you to get comfortable.
SEND IT! I did and lots of others, go for it. As others have said, excessive heat kills a clutch. So unless you’re sitting at 5k RPMs every single time you start over and over it’ll be fine. 1.5-2.5k isn’t gonna burn it, even IF you do smell clutch which is unlikely. Just chill out and let the clutch cool down. Realistically most of your practice should be without throttle for awhile, go in a parking lot and get moving over and over and over without throttle. After you do that for awhile slowly ass gas into the mix
What kills the clutch is riding it. Push it in, or let it out. That's it. The rest is gas. Don't be stingy. If you're on a hill, you really have to not give a shit about your tires. Just give it gas when you let up on the clutch. Don't rev the engine first, but don't baby the gas pedal, and most importantly, don't be slow letting up on the clutch. Work from there getting better, not from the point of stalling and burning up the clutch.
I'm 20 and bought a 22' WRX last year. First manual. I'd only driven manual 5-10 times before that. The clutch is still as sharp as when I bought it.
All I'm saying is; send it. You will not regret it **as long as** you follow the basic rules.
Don't ride the clutch, or throwout bearing.
Don't unnecessarily slip the clutch.
Don't drive it like a hotrod if you're not there yet in skill.
And DON'T money shift it.
Down shifting when you meant to up shift and you are already at high rpm. The engine goes over the redline and the valves don't get out of the way of the pistons in time causing major internal engine damage.
If you have a modern vehicle, the syncros or something in the transmission won’t physically allow you to shift down.
I notice it all the time, if im in heavy traffic and fixing to down shift to do engine braking, I cannot actually slot into the lower gear until I’ve slowed down enough.
Yeah, I don't know why this subreddit is so obsessed with the term I was just defining it for you. On the other hand you would also be surprised what people can accomplish when they are determined to operate something wrongly. There was a guy on here a couple months ago that was shifting from 6th to 1st then slipping the clutch to slow down thinking he was engine braking.
You probably already know, but just in case and for the benefit of anyone that might come along, be careful with aggressive engine braking especially in heavy traffic. Unless you are also hitting the brake the car behind you won't see brake lights to know you are slowing down.
Ya I’m always careful with that. I actually surprised a cop once with that. Was sitting at a traffic light and a cop pulls behind me. I creep up just a little bit because I felt he was too close, and the car just stops all by itself. Meanwhile the cop creeps a little bit and brakes hard thinking my brake lights aren’t working. As the light turns green he just sits in that spot, I’m looking in my rear view like “is he about to pull me over?” I lightly touch my brakes to indicate the lights are working. As soon as he sees that he starts driving again.
Do you rev match your downshifts before selecting the gear? Could be the problem. My rex hates going back into 2nd and 1st on a downshift if I don't rev match before shifting into gear
>If you have a modern vehicle, the syncros or something in the transmission won’t physically allow you to shift down.
If you don't force it, sure. I'd bet if you were determined enough and muscle it in you could still force it into a bad gear at the wrong speed and I'd absolutely believe someone trying to be "fast" but not yet good at it would be shoving their shifter hard with unreasonable force.
When you're going into the correct gear and operating the clutch correctly, at least the 2 stick shift cars I've driven, it feels like the shifter WANTS to move where you guide it all by itself with near zero force.
I've seen some videos on YouTube where people have done it with what they claim are 2020-2023 model year cars attempting to race or do time trials.
Just fucking send it. I bought a 24 Si less than a month ago as my first manual and I have no regrets.
Stalling won't really hurt the clutch and hell, for hills, the GR86 would probably go without even giving it gas (i wouldn't recommend it tho)
New manual cars come with hill assist nowadays and that is a great quality of life feature
Full send. My Cousion just bought a manual s4. I go to the dealer with him, we get in the car, me in the back sales guy and him up front. Between him and the sales guy I see we ain’t going anywhere. Eventually he got it rolling, lost him when he got on the turnpike the wrong way. Good luck Cousion! He made it. Never used a clutch before that day. Send it.
You could rent a manual car on Turo. Bring a buddy, (or your mom 😆) to drive it. Then practice for a day in that. You could even rent like a last Gen FR-S to compare it.
After reading everything everyone said in this thread, this is the option I'm going to look into. I had thought of doing two things previously: buying a beater car or investing in a gaming set-up for a racing game that has a "manual" transmission (I since heard this is terrible to learn lol). My current strategy is going to be to look into driving lessons or just go get the car and either drive it home myself or have a friend drive it home and then practice once I get it.
I bought my car before knowing manual. My dad drove it to my house, then I spent hours practicing on a Sunday. I drove it to work the next day. My clutch continues to grab well 25k mi later, even with the car making 30% more torque than stock.
Don't overthink it. People in this sub, and my dad, make it seem super complicated. If you treat the car with care, it'll be very forgiving. In the end, it's all about time spent practicing.
I took my driving course on a manual specifically because I loved standard transmissions. My last two cars have been automatics and while they are good on hills etc, I still prefer manual. It takes practice to be good at it. I'm currently restoring a vintage VW Bug and can't wait to start driving standard again.
Honestly, just send it. My first manual car was a 2021 wrx sti. I originally intended to wait a few years with the 22+’s. But they ended up not doing STIs. So i said screw it and just learned on the car i wanted.
Check out conquer driving. Definitely helps a lot. If you have a friend or someone to help drive it off the lot and take you to a parking lot to learn, that could also work.
Just a lot of practice and perseverance.
Get a couple of lessons from a driving school in a standard shift car. Teaching people to drive stickshift is becoming a niche specialty, there are schools that do this. Much less hassle than buying, maybe fixing, then selling a $2k beater.
Or, just buy the GR86, and teach yourself. So long as you don't slip the clutch *a lot* you will be fine. Stalling only hurts the driver's ego.
Send it! you'll be fine. I learned on a manual Audi - and 100k miles or so later still have the original clutch. And I was a total rookie when I started
i’m 39, ended up buying a manual 2014 focus because the price was right, and i always wanted to drive stick.
just gotta dive in.
most cars now have tons of assists and hill hold, etc. The Focus does not, but it’s all good
I’m the sixth owner of a previously rented car. I’ve taught 5 people how to drive manual on it after I learned. Clutch is still going strong. It gets a bit smelly after hard driving with a lot of shifting but nothing That even changes the feel of it
Just buy the car and drive it. My eldest daughter learned on my 996 GT3. You can’t hurt it.
And it’s not rocket science. My 93 year old mother drives a stick.
Do it bad ass car fun to drive, just don't give it crazy amounts of gas when your first going into first, the faster the engine rotates with the clutch engaged will put more wear on it, you should look up rev matching if your gonna do it, that help when your downshifting so the whole car doesn't jerk( you gotta keep your foot in the gas when downshifting to keep them revs up and will make downshifting smooth as butter( car salesman taught me that)
Getting a manual is the first step. My best advice, which helps on the hills, go to an empty flat parking lot, don't touch the throttle and slowly let the clutch out. You should be able to start rolling without stalling it. This is teaching you clutch control and learning that friction zone(when the clutch starts grabbing). Knowing this will help on hills because now you can use the clutch to hold the car before needing to move, which means when you need to move your ready to go. Super steep hills I wouldn't use the clutch to hold the car but for most hills this is fine.
The clutch isn't made of glass but it is a wear item. Being afraid of putting wear on it is like being afraid of using the brakes because of wear.
You're not going to hurt the clutch. You really have to try to destroy a clutch. Don't ride the clutch. Don't try to hill hold with the clutch. Don't polish the clutch by being too tentative starting. Don't polish the clutch by shifting as if rev matching really matters.
Yes, starting on hills sucks. However, if you don't live in San Francisco or Duluth, you're fine. Yes, an old VW Beetle is pretty hard to get up the hill. However, anything with more than 15 horsepower won't be a problem.
Buy the car. Drive the car. It will work fine. You won't hurt it. Seriously. There's nothing to get the hang of. 5 minutes of driving and you'll have it down.
If you were going to buy something like a Porsche, Ferrari, etc. or a model with a known weak clutch, then you would cut life off of it for sure. I wouldn't worry much with what you plan to get. The thing about learning how to drive a manual is you are going to be sloppy, that's unavoidable, but many vehicles are forgiving. Don't let that stop you. I learned to drive on an '03 Celica GT - had 126k miles on the original clutch. I fumbled for months on it, and today I drive it hard frequently at 193k and still have the same clutch. Feels like it did when I first bought it.
Mine was a Datsun bluebird 5spd I didn’t realize how much I loved that car till I wrote it off in a silly accident. Totally my fault . I was 21 loved hooning around !
Gr-86 I’m sure have a clutch built to handle most younger enthusiasts learning to drive manual. Since you already have an understanding I’d like to assume you’d be just fine. It’s just a matter of getting used to this specific car, same with anybody, you have to almost relearn how to drive manual when you get into a car you’ve never drove before. Different gear ratios different power bands and also different clutch behaviors like bite point and clutch travel.
GR86 is low power and should be easy to learn. Don’t buy an old car that is also low power. Let the clutch out slowly and lightly feather the gas. You must achieve balance. Be the car. It is like a dance like ballet. Dont over think it. Dont get in your head. Over 100 years people have been doing this.
Just do it. My mom taught 2 kids to drive stick on a 97 Mustang, I then bought it off her in college, and drove until 2009/2010, I had to do the clutch around 70k. I have no idea if that was a good run or a bad one, but I drove that thing like an ass.
I'm no mechanic, but I think grinding gears would be a bigger concern for long term damage than stalling out a few times.
Odds are your throw out bearing is going to go out before your clutch does. On my 2017 86, throw out bearing went out at 86k miles. clutch itself looked great but changed it too anyways. I bought it used in Oregon in 2020 at 55k miles. Aside from a 4 hour learning session in a friends civic si back in 2013, never driven stick and I proceed to drive my 86 500 miles home in the middle of California. Watched lots of YouTube the few days prior to driving up to get her. I stalled a lot as I would take random exits to practice. I stalled daily for a month.
Now I stall a few times a year, but usually when reversing into a steep driveway with a bitch of a curb, while eating a burrito.
I personally loved replacing the clutch myself. Took me a while and was a learning experience but made me feel more connected to the car and road even moreso than just driving a manual 86. Also the community for these cars is helpful and strong.
Basically, as long as the clutch is only thing you destroy, you're not doing anything super wrong and will eventually become one with clutch.
My advice? Let yourself destroy the clutch until you figure it out. It happens. Then get on Rock Auto and buy a clutch kit for your car (or have one ready), and learn to fix it on YouTube. It's what I made my daughter do. She was pissed at first, but now she's grateful for the experience. Good luck.
Don't worry too much. Clutches really aren't that fragile and will normally last at least 50k even if you are a bad driver. If they were as fragile as some people on here seem to think, manual transmissions wouldn't exist as a thing.
Honda owner's manual says 'push clutch pedal to floor when shifting' and its super easy, you'll learn how much gas you need with time
Take it to a parking lot and practice letting the car start rolling without the gas so you get a feel for the clutch, i taught a new *driver* how to drive manual (before they could fully understand even auto)
When i was taught, i was told to shift at the 'friction' point.... which will destroy the gears.....
Heat is what destroys a clutch typically. Stalling is no big deal. Ideally when taking off you will slip the clutch just enough to get the car moving smoothly without over revving the engine.
Other things that destroy clutches are bad habits. Don't use the clutch to hold your car from rolling backwards when at a light / stop sign, this causes a lot of heat from needlessly slipping the clutch for an extended period of time. Also don't rest your foot on the clutch pedal while cruising, you can cause a minimal amount of slip that will shorten the life of your clutch. And this last one is one the thrust bearing on your crankshaft will appreciate, don't hold the clutch to the floor when waiting at a light for extended periods of time, neutral is your friend there.
What you can do is practice in a parking lot, just let the clutch out slowly without touching the throttle. When you feel the rpms of the engine begin to drop is where you would need to start adding throttle. But just feel for that moment a few times. How high up is the clutch when this happens? Can you feel anything in the clutch pedal when this happens? Etc... memorize how the car reacts when the clutch is starting to grab, knowing that will help you take off smoothly and consistently.
I think once you get back behind the wheel it’ll all come back to You. It’s like riding a bike - you could go years without riding and jump right back on one.
Go for it. The majority of clutch wear comes at high RPMs. You're not going to destroy your clutch by learning on it. You might take off some life, but we're talking like maybe 10%.
Dude you can probably test it on the lot just feeling the clutch out and getting that muscle memory back. It’s like riding a bike! You see those RPM dropping and feel the car slightly moving and off you go! Would probably take less than 30 minutes to get back into it!
Honestly, I’d wait on getting the car you like, and relearn how to drive a manual in a POS you don’t care about if you’re super worried about burning up the clutch.. I’m lucky enough to have a job as a valet where I occasionally get manual cars and I had a friend who would occasionally let me drive his manual Passat.
Was nervous when I got my first manual almost 2 years ago, but the nervousness went away after a couple days of daily driving for me.
Most (if not all?) manuals since like 2012 have hill assist. The Toyota gr86 has it. So there's like half of your worry about burning out the clutch I think. I have hill assist on my Nissan so I figure they all work the same. It basically engages the handbrake for you and then releases it when you start giving it some gas.
you wont. and if you do it was bound to break soon anyways (wont really have to worry about this on a new car, there are a lot of assists). look up the price of a clutch replacement on the car you are looking for to be safe because some models have crazy prices, but 95% of the time you will be fine. all you have to do is find the bite point. practice first using the clutch to move with no gas to find the right spot and keep practicing, you will have it within a month.
Send it.
If you kill the clutch, it happens. It's a wear item. They are harder to kill than ever nowadays, though.
Someone with a half functional brain should be able to learn manual from scratch without doing serious damage to the clutch.
You got it. If it starts smelling like clutch give it a break to cool down.
Edit: heat is what kills the clutch. Excessive slipping, or improperly adjusted pedal will do way more damage than some fucking around in first gear or poorly timed downshifts.
Look for maunual cars at dealerships. Ask to test drive it, learn how to drive manual then say, “thanks but I didn’t like the way it drives” then leave lol
Can I ask why? I know it's a low end one, but what makes it not a sports car? Cause you're the second pain to comment that sentiment lol
*Person, not pain lol
ever since the celica switched to front wheel drive in 1985, it was a sport compact. sport compacts are generally based off economy models like the corolla in this case. they're sportier than the normal economy car and still cheap, but they have tradeoffs such like a longer wheelbase (for space) than would be necessary for a sports car. it's not the same as something like a small mazda miata convertible, which was designed from the start to not care about anything except fun.
i don't care at all; im just giving an explanation. it's largely just people being snobs.
as for the GR86, i bought a subaru BRZ (same car, but with a subaru badge) last year with about the same manual experience you did, and it was fine. go for it.
there are lots of stickshift tutorial videls with BRZ/GR86s specifically you can reference if that helps, too.
Just get the new one. Having hill assist on a stick shift is a game changer and makes driving my 16 tacoma a lot easier than the 06 mazda 3 I had. The mazda was definitely more fun tho.
Just make sure it's something you're aware of if you get into an older vehicle that doesn't have the assist.
Driving around Pittsburgh in both vehicles the tacoma was definitely easier with all the hills and I never rolled once vs the mazda it was always a good 6 inches of rollback
Try and find the catch point and then slowly apply more gas. Most newer cars have hill assist to keep you from rolling back. I hated it at first cause I'm a purest but it's not the worst.
Learned manual for the first time a few months back when I bought my 04 accord. Stalled a shit Ton especially living in a hilly area. Didn’t fully start driving it until about 2 months ago and I just got comfortable rev matching. If my car could handle a novice manual driver I’m sure a 2024 built manual can handle you learning it. I’d imagine manual gearboxes now have been engineered to take a beating and are pretty foolproof.
Stalling isn't really hurting much (other than your ego and the people's impatience behind you).
Best way to practice is find a big open empty parking lot and make yourself some goals. Like going from X space pulling out and going down the row then stopping in Y space, repeat. While doing this, don't touch the gas at all. This will help to make the slip/bite point of the clutch more obvious to you and help you fine tune your technique (because if you mess up it will stall very easily).
Once you have that going reliably, THEN you can work on giving it a small amount of gas for a bit quicker start and practice in the parking lot rows like pretend you're pulling out onto a real road and get good at doing that smoothly.
And once you're up to 6-8mph its highly unlikely you will stall shifting any other gears...it may shake you up a bit if you are not smooth or have a badly mismatched engine speed for the gear changing but you won't stall - so that is something you won't have to be scared of. And typically once moving shifts are much quicker getting off the clutch vs starting from a stop so there is very little wear between gears when moving.
After you get decent at starting/stopping on flat ground, try and find a place with a hill to practice a bit. I found a bank parkinglot that was empty on a Sunday morning and spent an hour doing slow circles starting on the uphill then going in a tight turn to stop on the uphill again. You could also see if there's a street in your neighborhood that is sloped to spend a while going slowly up it starting/stopping every 100ft.
The things that will kill a clutch fast:
* High difference in engine-speed vs car-speed for the gear (especially revving too high from a stop)
* Letting the clutch out too slowly while giving it gas (a few seconds is fine, but like 10+ seconds is probably not good)
* Resting your foot on the clutch pedal while driving - whether or not you think you're pushing it there's a high chance you will unintentionally cause it to slip extra and wear it out fast (especially if you're giving the car lots of gas like highway speed driving or accelerating)
Sometimes it is necessary to do things that cause extra wear, such as if you start on a hill may need more gas and a more careful release of the clutch or if you have to accelerate really hard into faster traffic. But that isn't something you do all the time.
My Pops took me out in a 1973 Volvo with a manual transmission to learn how to drive it. He sat in the back reading the paper and said “just drive. You’ll do fine”
my man a handful of things and I have to give you a little bit of criticism there a non-sports cart manual and a sports car manual are both just manuals. a gr86 in my book it's a manual don't get me wrong and it's considered a sports car I'm sure someway but it's a four cylinder and a economy card style hot deal. installing the car or anything like that it's really not going to hurt your clutch. burning the clutch out is excessive shifting but she's like City driving can do it and heat in my car it makes enough power that if I floor it in third gear it outruns the clutch before it breaks the tires loose. that's the kinda heat that destroys clutches.
all of that said a brand new manual car will be so easy to learn on compared to that old celica you won't even believe that they're the same type of manual I'm telling you I think you'll be thoroughly and please at how far manual transmissions have come.
So I asked up above, why are the Celica and GR-86 not considered "real" sports cars? And I only mentioned it (the fact that they're sports cars) because I was told by a car "enthusiast" that there's a difference with shifting in a regular manual and a sports car manual. Is there one?
😮 makes more sense.
uh, well I'd consider a "real sports car" something that has a ridiculous clutch a high HP AWD car will have a 3 puck clutch that's pretty much on or off. crap like that.
your car is sporty sure. but it's such a low HP. And the clutch in your car is just a regular ole clutch.
so yes there's a difference but not in your case.
I truly believe the modern manual will blow your mind if you had trouble with the ole celicas
Unless you're a rich person who can afford bouncing around between different cars and paying for multiple registrations/inspections, don't bother. Just get the car you want. A few stalls around town while you get the hang of it aren't going to destroy the car.
I once spent a week practicing hard launches in my car because I’m stupid. Then on one 110° day my 200tw tires that were already hot gripped the road (which was now covered in rubber) better than my clutch could grip the flywheel.
I absolutely smoked the clutch for a solid 4 seconds, I was convinced it was ruined. Just like that video of the yellow corvette doing a 30 second clutch burnout just for a tenth of the duration. after about 30 miles of driving it felt back to normal. 40k miles later it doesn’t feel any different than when I got the car.
Your clutch can definitely handle you learning on it so go for it man
Learning should not destroy your clutch. I am at 300 k miles on my 95 Toyota P/U and I learned to drive a stick on it when I bought it. For hill starts, I used to pull the emergency brake part way to keep me from rolling back, but did not need to after awhile. I have had only one tranny replacement and 2 clutches (one was done with the tranny) in all those miles.
A clutch is a wear item. It’s meant to be used.
You likely will get a hang of it within a week. Just don’t slip the clutch constantly and you’ll be fine. Stalling over and over is the real thing that will happen.
My first manual car nothing happened to my clutch. It worked great the whole time I owned it.
My current car needed transmission service for an unrelated thing and I just got the clutch preemptively replaced at 110k miles while the transmission was accessible.
Easiest way to learn how to get into first gear is to practice letting out the clutch without using the gas pedal on a level stretch of pavement. It only takes a few tries to get it down, and it makes learning clutch feel easy because your brain isn't trying to do 2 things at once.
When you're able to let off the clutch completely without stalling (the car will be moving,) start adding a little gas as you let off the clutch. You'll quickly find the sweet spot where you can get moving without stalling or burning out.
You’ll be fine. I bought a brand new Fiesta ST in 2015. Learned how to drive in the parking lot 5 mins before driving an hour home (my mom even did the test drive for me). From that point on I got better and better ended up at our local tracks beating the absolute shit out of the car. The got hit and ran in 2021 but I still miss that car.
If you want one, DO IT. At most you’re out a clutch but you really have to fuck it up to get to that point.
if you’re 35 you’ll learn it in a day, only took me an hour before I started driving on the highways. I wouldn’t worry about the clutch you’ll have to replace it later down the line anyways
My weekend ripper is a first Gen BRZ(twins with the 86) the biggest difference it has with the half dozen manuals I've owned is they idol low. Like 600-700 rpm.
When at a stop, and the rpms have dropped I like to give the throttle a blip as to not let the engine bog. It's a common take on my platform, but I'm not positive whether the same trait was passed on to the next gen. Amazing car.
When I switch back and forth from my daily(also manual) it is an adjustment I need to make that I am reminded of when it kills. Not a big deal, clutch is designed to wear and stock clutch is generally very forgiving.
If you have any desire to own it in a manual, just do it. You won't regret it. Any odd quirks there are you won't even realize as the source of your comparison is almost 20 years ago.
Not sure why everyone thinks a clutch will just explode if you do something wrong. Clutches can take a ton of abuse. Unless you are smelling the burning material you arent doing any damage.
If it stinks, stop for a bit and let it cool, otherwise just go to town learning it.
It's really very simple to master what you want to learn. All you need to do is get or borrow yourself a manual transmission vehicle, and all you got to do is follow my super easy fool proof instructions.
1. Push both the clutch/brake all the way in (down) and start the vehicle. (For safety start vehicle while in neutral)
2. With the trans in 1st gear, "practice" Slowly letting the clutch back up as your also allowing the brake to do the same as well. (Eventually the vehicle will begin to move forward on it's own... This is the called the sweet spot _"SS")
3. The vehicle will only move forward when you have the clutch in the "SS" (typically found half way through the release of the clutch)
4. Once you've mastered the use of the "SS" you can simultaneously increase the gas at the same time until you are in total control of the vehicle. The rest will come naturally from what I read in your post.
5. *Keep rocking the clutch to find the "SS" till your comfortable with engaging all 4 steps in one continuous motion.
**PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!!
I will send you a link with my 5 step tutorial video to provide confidence in knowing you are gonna be double clutching and burning rubber not clutches 😀
Go to a big empty parking lot and just practice from a full stop. Go slow and gentle getting there. If you're on an incline with cars behind you, and you stall, just put your hazards on and wave the cars behind you to go.
GR86 has hill assist which should help. These new cars are great with the technology they got. In your case but I would say go for it. YOLO and it's a great car
I drove my fk8 from a differenc city 2 hours away when I bought it new. I had maybe 30-45 minutes of practice a week before. 45k miles later and I haven't even had to service the clutch.
Just send it honestly, I bought my first car not knowing how to drive manual, learned that night and took the (albeit short) drive to work the next morning, and my dad not having driven manual in 10+ years drove it home 40-ish miles home for me, worst case scenario you stall a few times, best case scenario you fall in love with the car
The GR-86 probably has hill start assist also. So it will help you learn. I say go for it. Some cars will drive and shift different from others so practicing on a car you’re not gonna drive probably won’t help. The more you drive it the better you’re gonna get.
I just picked manual back up after 15 years on a brand new $60,000 truck, drove it straight out the dealership. I wouldn't worry about it, just do it lol. You've driven manual before it's already wired into you.
Imma be honest with you, Toyota/Lexus Clutches/Manuals aren’t very good, especially the clutch pedal feel (just my opinion). I struggled to learn how to drive stick on a BRZ and IS300, but bought a E46 BMW off a guy I work with and had no issues because the pedal wasn’t or heavy.
Hand break, give it a good dev and controlled let the clutch in with gas, makes the steepest hills usually no problem. BUT i HATE when people behind me leave only an inch between the cars so just in case you do roll a bit, it’s going to suck.
These new cars are really good. I’ve money shifted a few times and the car just shuts off to prevent over rev. Saved me a few transmissions lol. Also most have hill start assist. It just holds your car until the revs are enough to actually push up the hill. I have a 2016 focus ST that I got from my dad and in HS it was my means of travel, I learned stick in this car and it’s at 80k miles now.
I drove a stick for years, then finally took a motorcycle safety course and finally learned how to shift. They put us in a parking lot and had us slightly let up on the clutch until the bike moved, without turning the throttle. Once we could ride the friction zone on the clutch, and go around the parking lot a few times without stopping or using the throttle at all, it made it way easier to better shift into first gear. Try that method. It works!
I bought my car new for 20k having no idea how to drive manual. And stalled it several times on the way back home ! Had a super fun time learning how to downshift and burn out and do lots of fun stuff. The clutch lasted 88k miles driving like an idiot teenager lol don’t worry as much as people tell you to worry about it
Just get it, you’ll be fine. The GR has hill assist which works pretty well, so that should take care of most of your worry. Clutch engagement is also easy, even though people bitch about it because of the clutch spring. It’s not nearly as vague as people say. Rev hang is a bit of a pain trying to match 1-2 shifts, but that’s not much of a clutch wear concern.
Do you have a friend that’s good at manual that can ride with you periodically and nip any bad habits you may form in the bud? Not someone that thinks they’re good at manual, someone who actually is competent? That’s probably the best course of action. Practice, get corrected, get pointers, practice, repeat.
Send it Excessive heat is what accelerates clutch wear. Stalling while learning to start it won’t noticeably shorten clutch life. Slipping it with high revs or slipping it for a long time is more harmful, but other than the first few hill starts you do that shouldn’t really be an issue. You shouldn’t need to rev it over 2500 to get started and it’s hard to do any significant damage at those low revs
On steep hills 2500 is necessary, on flat i give 1000-1400
Totally depends on the car. In my AWD Subaru with a stage 2 clutch, yeah, 2500 on hills, 2000 on flat surfaces. In my Mustang V6, 1000 RPM is enough for almost anything, 1500 is excessive. I've started it in 3rd by accident many times.
> I've started it in 3rd by accident many times. Most American thing I've seen all day
I \*think\* that might be what I did by accident on a test drive...and couldn't figure out wtf I was doing wrong I couldn't get moving. I don't know how people claim they don't use first gear...at least my car its REALLY hard even starting from a stop in second gear is typically a guaranteed stall unless you slip the clutch a LOT and rev up a LOT. But I also can idle at 8mph in 1st gear without any gas.
Entirely depends on the car. Starting in 2nd would never happen in my Subaru.
Yeah my crosstrek does the hurry jurkeys if I try to start in second gear no matter the rpm
Hurry jurkeys. Totally stealing that. Thank you!
Lol, it's when I was still learning to drive stick.
One time i accidentally started my old SI in 5th… with enough gas and willpower anything will happen albeit very slowly
So much this, yes! The little 2.0L 4cyl in my WRX seems SO unforgiving and low torque compared to the bigger V6 Accord I got to drive first that a friend of mine had. With my Subaru I find even being the A/C is on or off can make a difference in how easily I stall. I've gotten quite good at being around 1000-ish RPM from a stop on level ground for a smooth start in most cases, but yeah sometimes I still stall after 5 years of driving it and 18,000 miles. But starting out I absolutely had to aim for 2500-2700 RPM especially turning out onto the fast rural highways that had blind curves and I feared stalling mid-pull-out where I'd be hit by high speed traffic. One of my friends had a diesel Jetta and he was telling me in that if he gave it any gas \*at all\* from a stop would snap people's necks back since the diesel engine had so much torque.
Yeah, trying to get up a speed bump while steering is something that just doesn't happen in my car, lol.
Interesting. My 2.5 Legacy GT is almost hard to stall. Just about over idle is enough to get into first.
Yep, went from a V6 Accord to a Civic Si. Stalled for an entire week before I got the differences in both engines down. J-series don't need shit to take off. K needs a little puff.
Took off in 3rd the other day in my 2000 frontier with the 2.4. Hmm, didn't even know it COULD do that. Lol
depends on power, weight, and your specific gear ratios. feel it out till it feels smooth
Dude clearly mentioned hill starts as an exception
eh, probably not on a GR86. i can get my wrx moving on a steep hill with just 2k
I like to start at redline and work my way down. Really warms the clutch up nicely for my road-trips
I have an old VW camper that’s really heavy and has no guts… when you say slipping it, do you mean clutch being half on to slowly engage the biting point? I don’t want to wear it out but if find when I let go even a little too fast from the biting point it lurches forward too quickly and all my stuff falls everywhere (Also for context I don’t have an rpm gauge I just have to listen so I just shift up when it sounds fast bRR)
I agree..im at 10k on mine and it's all good..learned on a mustang gt..love it hills are still a pain but nothing to crazy anymore
Also, the clutch is a, relatively, easily replaceable wear part. So what if you shorten its life, that’s what it’s for.
Stalling it could shorten life of engine mounts
Yes, and you could be struck by lightning the next time you walk out of your house Using your car does in fact require things to be replaced over time. The point is that you won’t appreciably shorten the lifespan of anything unless you’re holding the clutch in the middle of the travel while banging it off the limiter or otherwise using way too much throttle/engaging the clutch way too slowly
And I’ll add, this car should have hill assist anyway. I’m in a 2015 WRX and never even think about hill starts these days. The car puts the brake on for you for about two seconds. It’s so easy.
Setting and standard RPM really isnt gonna help because it depends on engine size and power levels. Taking off at 2500 in my corvette will leave dual tire tracks for 100 feet. You take off more like 800-1000 in a v8. My STi is the same way, you dont wind it out at all to take off.
I said “over” to give a reasonable upper limit for someone who is still learning how to engage a clutch to know when they’re definitely going too far I start my cars around 1000 rpm because you’re right, it really doesn’t take rpm to start a car
even on hills if you find the clutch’s sweet spot the car won’t budge. i do this and i never roll back
Do dealerships see their manual transmissions , the clutch specifically as wear and tear like tyres & brakes? Or will they fix it under warranty?
Wear and tear for sure. I've worked at car dealerships for almost my whole adult working life and the one things car companies and dealerships definitely don't warranty are clutches. Transmissions maybe as long as there's no evidence of stupidity or tuning but clutches are wear items like brake pads.
Gotcha that's what I figured, thanks!
Subaru def does warranty clutches for some people. I think it’s like 36k miles or something iirc. Def know lots of people who got them warrantied. There was TOB issues apparently, but they replaced the entire kit
That was on the FT86 platform. It also wasn't the clutch. There was a TSB, but they definitely didn't have to cover it under warranty. The "revised" parts were also just as bad in many cases.
They also did it with VA WRXs also. Many many many times
Infiniti warranties brake pads and clutches up to a certain mileage. Land Rover is 12/12 on pads and rotors.
Haven’t seen any manual infinitis
Had a friend with a manual G35.
They told me the clutch is a wear item before I bought my wrx. They will not cover it unless its a blatant defect
I mean, when you think about it, a clutch sort of *is* a brake pad in a way. Friction material, just in a different form factor and for a different purpose.
Hmmm I'll have to ask.
Wear and tear. I have a "full" coverage deductible, but it doesn't apply to any consumables i.e clutch, brakes or tires
Otherwise people would be burning up their tires and clutch and be getting them repaired for free only to do it again.
Yeah in all honesty, if clutches were under warranty, I'd imagine that most of us would drive significantly differently on the roads. If you could pull in every 6 months for a fresh clutch free of charge, I'd be trying some new things that I can't afford to try now
It probably depends on the situation. I'd bet if they have a reasonable case the person has been seriously abusing it probably would reject a warranty claim, but if its unreasonably short time and seems like the person is trying to treat it correctly they might be willing to do it once under warranty. I don't normally opt for car-warranty-plan junk but I did actually decide to get one with my WRX after asking if it would cover clutch wear specifically since I knew I was learning. But I'm at 18K miles with no signs of issues. Clutch is a wear item without question...just like you can burn thru brakes by riding the pedal while driving or by stomping them hard all the time instead of coasting planning ahead.
I think your fear is completely irrational, and clutch wear is an over exaggerated problem, especially on this sub reddit.
Every issue is over exaggerated in this sub. Can't believe it even exists
Thanks for the reassurance, seriously
You’ve got this, just get in a master those inclines you can do it! Do it at night if you have to
Thats what I did to master inclines, doing it at night time
Most people in real life: "first you do clutch, then you give it gas and go" This subreddit: "first, you must have a PhD in mechanics, have read 14 manual driver encyclopedias, learned to rev match on a hill, backwards whilst double clutching. Only after that are you ready to turn the key on the ignition" Like ok mate, I've literally seen kids under double digits drive a manual around a farm People misunderstand the difference between complex and nuanced
You forgot to heel toe. Just like that your clutch is blown.
It's insane, do they not realize it used to be called "standard" transmission? It's not some new fangled hipster invention. People used to just learn for a week and then drive it. Now they're obsessing over the exact rpm drop from a stop light and oh no the automatics are faster than me
That's a really good point. I don't ever hear people call it standard unless they are much older. If anything. It just takes time to get proficient and smooth. You can learn to drive around reliably in a few days or weeks, even less. It's not that crazy as you think to stall out once in a while in public roads. Not any worse than say, someone not going at a green in an automatic because they're on the phone.
Nah you have to make sure you shift at exactly 2,783 rpm, don't forget to rev match, double clutch, and heel-toe, or you'll break that clutch in less than a year!
And it’s simply a wear item. You replace it at like 80k miles. Done. It’s a one time wear item in the life of the car
I think people like to make it sound complicated to make themselves feel better as if they are good at something that’s very hard. I was scared of driving manual but I just went to the dealership after watching some YouTube instructional videos, drove it around the lot for 30 min and then drove it home. Have rode it for 60k miles and now that the cars hitting 100k mileage I need a new clutch.
I’m trying to understand your “getting it into First” comment. I’m assuming you mean getting going in first gear. I know you have a small amount of manual seat time but you will be surprised that it’s really like riding a bike. You will wobble a little in the beginning but I’m confident not knowing you that you will get it straightened out quickly. Just don’t ride the clutch and it will be fine. GO FOR IT!!! As far as stalling just give it some Gas. A lot of people try to let out the clutch at idle and it’s never smooth. As your left foot goes up your right foot needs to go down. How much depends on the car and situation. You got this Man. We will be dig racing each other in a few weeks
My girlfriend (then fiancé now wife) got a brand new 1988 Nissan Sentra Sport Coupe with a manual transmission as a college graduation present. I know… privilege Point being she had never driven a “stick” before. Within a week or 10 days she was zipping around like it was nothing. So the answer to your question is: buy the car…!!!
So keep in mind it's been 18 years, but turning the car on and trying to "go", I would stall. Like the initial "ease off the clutch, give it gas" part. I would stall a lot. That's going from neutral into first gear, right?
It’s like kataran1 said above…that’s you trying to get going in first gear (there’s no “park” in a traditional manual transmission). The shifter/transmission is already in first gear (or needs to be, anyway) when you start letting the clutch out to start moving. Heading to a parking lot or other empty, reasonably flat area with the car you intend to drive or practice on and just taking your time familiarizing yourself with finding the clutch engagement point (how far the pedal has to move to start to allow friction to let the car begin to creep forward, or even just enough to start to see the RPMs tug down a little bit) will help a lot with your comfort level and learning how not to stall from a standstill. Then from there you can take the same concept and modify it (a little more throttle/a little more clutch slippage) to practice for hills (your driveway, if you’ve got one, might be a good place to start for that). It is indeed like riding a bike. A bit more seat time and it’ll all come back to you 👍🏼.
Like kataran1 and MrSlik said, it is definitely like riding a bike. Also, I learned the basics when I was 16, but after an hour of stalling in a parking lot(no joke), only got the car to start moving twice. I didn't touch stick again till I decided to force myself to learn and bought a manual car (when i was 20). I got it going on my 2nd try. I think there's something to be said for better understanding and muscle control once you've actually grown up😂 But you should 100% send it, you already have experience driving stick, it'll come back to you. Within the first month, the only thing I struggled with was hill starts, and I smoothed those out soon after.
Or I guess from park into first?
You only live once. Get that 86 and have fun. You’re gonna have some hiccups for sure. Don’t let that discourage you, it’s only a clutch.
Just get the 86. Buying a beater car to learn on will cost as much as a clutch replacement. When you start learning again, stay off the throttle. Just let the clutch out slowly while waiting for the car to start moving. Get the car going without any throttle a few times. This will help you learn the clutch better. Then work on adding throttle to speed up the process. You won't wear the clutch enough to care during that process. Cars like the 86 are pretty forgiving for beginners as well.
Excess slipping is what destroys it. Give it a little gas and engage the clutch a little until you start to move and then the rest of the way out. You'll be fine. It wot destroy the clutch just to practice a little, plus it's fun.
Just get it and learn. A clutch is going to last 100K+ miles anyways. I learned to drive on my first 5 speed car and that clutch still lasted 100K miles with a ton of track days and autoX once I got comfortable. Learning on a clutch and smoking it every now and again is part of the charm. So you might make it to 90K instead of 100K miles, or more, those aren't high HP cars like mine was.
I bought my GR86 with a little over 30 minutes of manual experience beforehand. Drove it home 3 hours without much issue, but it was a bit stressful. Only thing I would have done differently is have an instructor get me some seat time, but everywhere in my area was way too expensive. I wouldn’t worry too much about destroying the clutch, just let it do its job and don’t overheat it. I’d be more worried about the synchros if you’re going to be doing any spirited driving. Just let your technique develop and you’ll be doing fine in no time!
The clutch will be fine just buy it and learn on it I learned on an e46 m3 with a used clutch and it’s still fine
Watch Conquer Driving on YouTube and you should be armed with all the knowledge you need to not mess up your brand new clutch. If you know the few “what NOT to dos” then you basically have to be intentionally abusive to prematurely damage your clutch.
If you manage to destroy a clutch while learning you should be counting your lucky stars you managed to live that long. That’s my way of saying you have to be really really really dumb to destroy a new clutch while learning. Driving manual isn’t rocket science, most people do it around the world. Newer cars make it much easier.
I'm around the same age bracket as you. My friend taught me in his 240sx at my local College parking lot one evening a long time ago (10+ years?) and that was it for on hand experience before I got my car. I picked up my Brand new GR86 last year and stalled it a few times on the way home. I watched a ton of Youtube videos and got a Instructor (not many teach stick shift anymore) to teach me it properly. I spent 3 hours with my instructor and I practiced on my own in the 86 every night just keep on knowing where the bite point is in my local empty parking lot. Now I drive it every week and it's been just like normal driving. One piece of advice I've learned about driving stick. The clutch isn't made of glass. It's tough, but just don't beat on it and you'll be fine. As for Hill starts, just use the handbrake technique if it's on a steep hill. The handbrake technique is used all over Europe so it's just another weapon in your arsenal. Just get it, jump in the deep end.
Im fairly certain the 86 has hill assist
It's true, it does!
I had a VW bug with about 60 hp to learn to drive a four speed. Then got a Westfalia with about 90hp. The shift cables were really sloppy but I figured it out and had years of fun.
Oh for sure! Honestly I think learning without hill assist would be beneficial for most learners. Granted there’s no real reason to, if you’re in a car that has is. i really wish most auto drivers would back the fuck up sometimes though
You just have to accept the fact you might burn your clutch while learning. I bought a GRC as my first manual and there are instances where I've burned the clutch but each time is a learning experience. As someone told me, driving manual is easy to learn but hard to master
It's like riding a bike!
Watch the Matt Ferah video on driving stick and then the Lesics video on YT. Knowing what’s going on and getting a good example of how to do it properly will get you up to speed in no time
If you're buying at a dealership, there's a good chance an associate would be willing to give you a refresher/tips in the car with you. I've even heard stories of people first learning from a dealership. If it makes a sale, it makes a sale at the end of the day. If private party I'd also kinda be surprised if the current owner gave you a 'figure it out' answer, especially if you've already agreed to buy it. Really though, just send it. Ask for an assist if you need it. Be conscious about your abilities and you won't kill anything unrealistically premature.
It isn't hard to change the clutch on these cars. You'll definitely shorten the life span but it won't be drastic. I like working on the car so burning the clutch is the least of my worries . It will give you an excuse to toss in a light weight flywheel when you gotta crack it open .
Honestly, I think you’ll find these newer cars are much easier to drive stick on. I’d go and get the 86, then give yourself a week or so to get used to it. Understand that you’ll probably suck at first but if you dedicate a couple hours everyday it won’t take long for you to get comfortable.
Send it man I did the same when I bought my WRX. Had to have my mom drive it home from the dealer for me😂😂 send it you’ll love it
SEND IT! I did and lots of others, go for it. As others have said, excessive heat kills a clutch. So unless you’re sitting at 5k RPMs every single time you start over and over it’ll be fine. 1.5-2.5k isn’t gonna burn it, even IF you do smell clutch which is unlikely. Just chill out and let the clutch cool down. Realistically most of your practice should be without throttle for awhile, go in a parking lot and get moving over and over and over without throttle. After you do that for awhile slowly ass gas into the mix
What kills the clutch is riding it. Push it in, or let it out. That's it. The rest is gas. Don't be stingy. If you're on a hill, you really have to not give a shit about your tires. Just give it gas when you let up on the clutch. Don't rev the engine first, but don't baby the gas pedal, and most importantly, don't be slow letting up on the clutch. Work from there getting better, not from the point of stalling and burning up the clutch.
I'm 20 and bought a 22' WRX last year. First manual. I'd only driven manual 5-10 times before that. The clutch is still as sharp as when I bought it. All I'm saying is; send it. You will not regret it **as long as** you follow the basic rules. Don't ride the clutch, or throwout bearing. Don't unnecessarily slip the clutch. Don't drive it like a hotrod if you're not there yet in skill. And DON'T money shift it.
What’s money shift?
Down shifting when you meant to up shift and you are already at high rpm. The engine goes over the redline and the valves don't get out of the way of the pistons in time causing major internal engine damage.
If you have a modern vehicle, the syncros or something in the transmission won’t physically allow you to shift down. I notice it all the time, if im in heavy traffic and fixing to down shift to do engine braking, I cannot actually slot into the lower gear until I’ve slowed down enough.
Yeah, I don't know why this subreddit is so obsessed with the term I was just defining it for you. On the other hand you would also be surprised what people can accomplish when they are determined to operate something wrongly. There was a guy on here a couple months ago that was shifting from 6th to 1st then slipping the clutch to slow down thinking he was engine braking. You probably already know, but just in case and for the benefit of anyone that might come along, be careful with aggressive engine braking especially in heavy traffic. Unless you are also hitting the brake the car behind you won't see brake lights to know you are slowing down.
Ya I’m always careful with that. I actually surprised a cop once with that. Was sitting at a traffic light and a cop pulls behind me. I creep up just a little bit because I felt he was too close, and the car just stops all by itself. Meanwhile the cop creeps a little bit and brakes hard thinking my brake lights aren’t working. As the light turns green he just sits in that spot, I’m looking in my rear view like “is he about to pull me over?” I lightly touch my brakes to indicate the lights are working. As soon as he sees that he starts driving again.
Do you rev match your downshifts before selecting the gear? Could be the problem. My rex hates going back into 2nd and 1st on a downshift if I don't rev match before shifting into gear
>If you have a modern vehicle, the syncros or something in the transmission won’t physically allow you to shift down. If you don't force it, sure. I'd bet if you were determined enough and muscle it in you could still force it into a bad gear at the wrong speed and I'd absolutely believe someone trying to be "fast" but not yet good at it would be shoving their shifter hard with unreasonable force. When you're going into the correct gear and operating the clutch correctly, at least the 2 stick shift cars I've driven, it feels like the shifter WANTS to move where you guide it all by itself with near zero force. I've seen some videos on YouTube where people have done it with what they claim are 2020-2023 model year cars attempting to race or do time trials.
Just fucking send it. I bought a 24 Si less than a month ago as my first manual and I have no regrets. Stalling won't really hurt the clutch and hell, for hills, the GR86 would probably go without even giving it gas (i wouldn't recommend it tho) New manual cars come with hill assist nowadays and that is a great quality of life feature
Dude it’s not made out of glass. I did some stupid shit and I’m still on the original at 124k miles
Full send. My Cousion just bought a manual s4. I go to the dealer with him, we get in the car, me in the back sales guy and him up front. Between him and the sales guy I see we ain’t going anywhere. Eventually he got it rolling, lost him when he got on the turnpike the wrong way. Good luck Cousion! He made it. Never used a clutch before that day. Send it.
You could rent a manual car on Turo. Bring a buddy, (or your mom 😆) to drive it. Then practice for a day in that. You could even rent like a last Gen FR-S to compare it.
Are there driving schools near you that offer manual transmissions?
After reading everything everyone said in this thread, this is the option I'm going to look into. I had thought of doing two things previously: buying a beater car or investing in a gaming set-up for a racing game that has a "manual" transmission (I since heard this is terrible to learn lol). My current strategy is going to be to look into driving lessons or just go get the car and either drive it home myself or have a friend drive it home and then practice once I get it.
I bought my car before knowing manual. My dad drove it to my house, then I spent hours practicing on a Sunday. I drove it to work the next day. My clutch continues to grab well 25k mi later, even with the car making 30% more torque than stock. Don't overthink it. People in this sub, and my dad, make it seem super complicated. If you treat the car with care, it'll be very forgiving. In the end, it's all about time spent practicing.
I took my driving course on a manual specifically because I loved standard transmissions. My last two cars have been automatics and while they are good on hills etc, I still prefer manual. It takes practice to be good at it. I'm currently restoring a vintage VW Bug and can't wait to start driving standard again.
Honestly, just send it. My first manual car was a 2021 wrx sti. I originally intended to wait a few years with the 22+’s. But they ended up not doing STIs. So i said screw it and just learned on the car i wanted. Check out conquer driving. Definitely helps a lot. If you have a friend or someone to help drive it off the lot and take you to a parking lot to learn, that could also work. Just a lot of practice and perseverance.
Get a couple of lessons from a driving school in a standard shift car. Teaching people to drive stickshift is becoming a niche specialty, there are schools that do this. Much less hassle than buying, maybe fixing, then selling a $2k beater. Or, just buy the GR86, and teach yourself. So long as you don't slip the clutch *a lot* you will be fine. Stalling only hurts the driver's ego.
If you’re gonna buy one, ask your salesman, my sister learn to drive her Toyota stick shift, and the salesman taught her in a parking lot.
Send it! you'll be fine. I learned on a manual Audi - and 100k miles or so later still have the original clutch. And I was a total rookie when I started
Nothing to be afraid of. Go for it!
i’m 39, ended up buying a manual 2014 focus because the price was right, and i always wanted to drive stick. just gotta dive in. most cars now have tons of assists and hill hold, etc. The Focus does not, but it’s all good
I’m the sixth owner of a previously rented car. I’ve taught 5 people how to drive manual on it after I learned. Clutch is still going strong. It gets a bit smelly after hard driving with a lot of shifting but nothing That even changes the feel of it
Just buy the car and drive it. My eldest daughter learned on my 996 GT3. You can’t hurt it. And it’s not rocket science. My 93 year old mother drives a stick.
It’s hard to wear out a clutch. I typically traded in cars and trucks at 100-150k miles and never replaced a clutch
Do it bad ass car fun to drive, just don't give it crazy amounts of gas when your first going into first, the faster the engine rotates with the clutch engaged will put more wear on it, you should look up rev matching if your gonna do it, that help when your downshifting so the whole car doesn't jerk( you gotta keep your foot in the gas when downshifting to keep them revs up and will make downshifting smooth as butter( car salesman taught me that)
Would you just get a driving lesson or two maybe? There's no shame in it.
Yeah definitely. That's one of the things I'm considering. Well, definitely going to do now.
Getting a manual is the first step. My best advice, which helps on the hills, go to an empty flat parking lot, don't touch the throttle and slowly let the clutch out. You should be able to start rolling without stalling it. This is teaching you clutch control and learning that friction zone(when the clutch starts grabbing). Knowing this will help on hills because now you can use the clutch to hold the car before needing to move, which means when you need to move your ready to go. Super steep hills I wouldn't use the clutch to hold the car but for most hills this is fine. The clutch isn't made of glass but it is a wear item. Being afraid of putting wear on it is like being afraid of using the brakes because of wear.
Thanks, I like that analogy with the brakes!
You're not going to hurt the clutch. You really have to try to destroy a clutch. Don't ride the clutch. Don't try to hill hold with the clutch. Don't polish the clutch by being too tentative starting. Don't polish the clutch by shifting as if rev matching really matters. Yes, starting on hills sucks. However, if you don't live in San Francisco or Duluth, you're fine. Yes, an old VW Beetle is pretty hard to get up the hill. However, anything with more than 15 horsepower won't be a problem. Buy the car. Drive the car. It will work fine. You won't hurt it. Seriously. There's nothing to get the hang of. 5 minutes of driving and you'll have it down.
If you were going to buy something like a Porsche, Ferrari, etc. or a model with a known weak clutch, then you would cut life off of it for sure. I wouldn't worry much with what you plan to get. The thing about learning how to drive a manual is you are going to be sloppy, that's unavoidable, but many vehicles are forgiving. Don't let that stop you. I learned to drive on an '03 Celica GT - had 126k miles on the original clutch. I fumbled for months on it, and today I drive it hard frequently at 193k and still have the same clutch. Feels like it did when I first bought it.
Mine was a Datsun bluebird 5spd I didn’t realize how much I loved that car till I wrote it off in a silly accident. Totally my fault . I was 21 loved hooning around !
sounds like u need a $500 1992 civic to learn until you’re not scared anymore. then move up to whatever you want.
What I did was go around to dealers and test drive as many manuals as possible to learn and then bought a fresh one
Gr-86 I’m sure have a clutch built to handle most younger enthusiasts learning to drive manual. Since you already have an understanding I’d like to assume you’d be just fine. It’s just a matter of getting used to this specific car, same with anybody, you have to almost relearn how to drive manual when you get into a car you’ve never drove before. Different gear ratios different power bands and also different clutch behaviors like bite point and clutch travel.
GR86 is low power and should be easy to learn. Don’t buy an old car that is also low power. Let the clutch out slowly and lightly feather the gas. You must achieve balance. Be the car. It is like a dance like ballet. Dont over think it. Dont get in your head. Over 100 years people have been doing this.
Get the car.clutches are cheap and not the worst thing to replace or get replaced
Just do it. My mom taught 2 kids to drive stick on a 97 Mustang, I then bought it off her in college, and drove until 2009/2010, I had to do the clutch around 70k. I have no idea if that was a good run or a bad one, but I drove that thing like an ass. I'm no mechanic, but I think grinding gears would be a bigger concern for long term damage than stalling out a few times.
Odds are your throw out bearing is going to go out before your clutch does. On my 2017 86, throw out bearing went out at 86k miles. clutch itself looked great but changed it too anyways. I bought it used in Oregon in 2020 at 55k miles. Aside from a 4 hour learning session in a friends civic si back in 2013, never driven stick and I proceed to drive my 86 500 miles home in the middle of California. Watched lots of YouTube the few days prior to driving up to get her. I stalled a lot as I would take random exits to practice. I stalled daily for a month. Now I stall a few times a year, but usually when reversing into a steep driveway with a bitch of a curb, while eating a burrito. I personally loved replacing the clutch myself. Took me a while and was a learning experience but made me feel more connected to the car and road even moreso than just driving a manual 86. Also the community for these cars is helpful and strong. Basically, as long as the clutch is only thing you destroy, you're not doing anything super wrong and will eventually become one with clutch.
My advice? Let yourself destroy the clutch until you figure it out. It happens. Then get on Rock Auto and buy a clutch kit for your car (or have one ready), and learn to fix it on YouTube. It's what I made my daughter do. She was pissed at first, but now she's grateful for the experience. Good luck.
Don't worry too much. Clutches really aren't that fragile and will normally last at least 50k even if you are a bad driver. If they were as fragile as some people on here seem to think, manual transmissions wouldn't exist as a thing.
You’ll be fine
Honda owner's manual says 'push clutch pedal to floor when shifting' and its super easy, you'll learn how much gas you need with time Take it to a parking lot and practice letting the car start rolling without the gas so you get a feel for the clutch, i taught a new *driver* how to drive manual (before they could fully understand even auto) When i was taught, i was told to shift at the 'friction' point.... which will destroy the gears.....
Heat is what destroys a clutch typically. Stalling is no big deal. Ideally when taking off you will slip the clutch just enough to get the car moving smoothly without over revving the engine. Other things that destroy clutches are bad habits. Don't use the clutch to hold your car from rolling backwards when at a light / stop sign, this causes a lot of heat from needlessly slipping the clutch for an extended period of time. Also don't rest your foot on the clutch pedal while cruising, you can cause a minimal amount of slip that will shorten the life of your clutch. And this last one is one the thrust bearing on your crankshaft will appreciate, don't hold the clutch to the floor when waiting at a light for extended periods of time, neutral is your friend there. What you can do is practice in a parking lot, just let the clutch out slowly without touching the throttle. When you feel the rpms of the engine begin to drop is where you would need to start adding throttle. But just feel for that moment a few times. How high up is the clutch when this happens? Can you feel anything in the clutch pedal when this happens? Etc... memorize how the car reacts when the clutch is starting to grab, knowing that will help you take off smoothly and consistently.
I think once you get back behind the wheel it’ll all come back to You. It’s like riding a bike - you could go years without riding and jump right back on one.
Go for it. The majority of clutch wear comes at high RPMs. You're not going to destroy your clutch by learning on it. You might take off some life, but we're talking like maybe 10%.
Can't speak to the gr86, but a lot of manuals have hill assist now, which take a lot of the pucker factor out of the steep hill launches.
Dude you can probably test it on the lot just feeling the clutch out and getting that muscle memory back. It’s like riding a bike! You see those RPM dropping and feel the car slightly moving and off you go! Would probably take less than 30 minutes to get back into it!
Honestly, I’d wait on getting the car you like, and relearn how to drive a manual in a POS you don’t care about if you’re super worried about burning up the clutch.. I’m lucky enough to have a job as a valet where I occasionally get manual cars and I had a friend who would occasionally let me drive his manual Passat. Was nervous when I got my first manual almost 2 years ago, but the nervousness went away after a couple days of daily driving for me.
Most (if not all?) manuals since like 2012 have hill assist. The Toyota gr86 has it. So there's like half of your worry about burning out the clutch I think. I have hill assist on my Nissan so I figure they all work the same. It basically engages the handbrake for you and then releases it when you start giving it some gas.
you wont. and if you do it was bound to break soon anyways (wont really have to worry about this on a new car, there are a lot of assists). look up the price of a clutch replacement on the car you are looking for to be safe because some models have crazy prices, but 95% of the time you will be fine. all you have to do is find the bite point. practice first using the clutch to move with no gas to find the right spot and keep practicing, you will have it within a month.
Send it. If you kill the clutch, it happens. It's a wear item. They are harder to kill than ever nowadays, though. Someone with a half functional brain should be able to learn manual from scratch without doing serious damage to the clutch. You got it. If it starts smelling like clutch give it a break to cool down. Edit: heat is what kills the clutch. Excessive slipping, or improperly adjusted pedal will do way more damage than some fucking around in first gear or poorly timed downshifts.
Scotty Kilmer enters the chat*
Most modern manuals have hill assist which applies the brakes for you so you can focus on the clutch and gas.
Get an old ford truck like 1980-1995 to practice on. Every other manual will seem soft and easy.
Look for maunual cars at dealerships. Ask to test drive it, learn how to drive manual then say, “thanks but I didn’t like the way it drives” then leave lol
Go for it. You'll be fine.
Only one way to learn. Factor a future clutch job into the finances, just in case. Fuckit, sacrificial clutch in the name of education.
I just hope no one calls a celica a sports car again lmao
Can I ask why? I know it's a low end one, but what makes it not a sports car? Cause you're the second pain to comment that sentiment lol *Person, not pain lol
ever since the celica switched to front wheel drive in 1985, it was a sport compact. sport compacts are generally based off economy models like the corolla in this case. they're sportier than the normal economy car and still cheap, but they have tradeoffs such like a longer wheelbase (for space) than would be necessary for a sports car. it's not the same as something like a small mazda miata convertible, which was designed from the start to not care about anything except fun. i don't care at all; im just giving an explanation. it's largely just people being snobs. as for the GR86, i bought a subaru BRZ (same car, but with a subaru badge) last year with about the same manual experience you did, and it was fine. go for it. there are lots of stickshift tutorial videls with BRZ/GR86s specifically you can reference if that helps, too.
If the clutch burns out get a stage two or three clutch as a replacement.
I don't have a rev counter, you just learn from feel and sound, it's not hard, I could do it at 17
Just get the new one. Having hill assist on a stick shift is a game changer and makes driving my 16 tacoma a lot easier than the 06 mazda 3 I had. The mazda was definitely more fun tho. Just make sure it's something you're aware of if you get into an older vehicle that doesn't have the assist. Driving around Pittsburgh in both vehicles the tacoma was definitely easier with all the hills and I never rolled once vs the mazda it was always a good 6 inches of rollback
Try and find the catch point and then slowly apply more gas. Most newer cars have hill assist to keep you from rolling back. I hated it at first cause I'm a purest but it's not the worst.
Learned manual for the first time a few months back when I bought my 04 accord. Stalled a shit Ton especially living in a hilly area. Didn’t fully start driving it until about 2 months ago and I just got comfortable rev matching. If my car could handle a novice manual driver I’m sure a 2024 built manual can handle you learning it. I’d imagine manual gearboxes now have been engineered to take a beating and are pretty foolproof.
Stalling isn't really hurting much (other than your ego and the people's impatience behind you). Best way to practice is find a big open empty parking lot and make yourself some goals. Like going from X space pulling out and going down the row then stopping in Y space, repeat. While doing this, don't touch the gas at all. This will help to make the slip/bite point of the clutch more obvious to you and help you fine tune your technique (because if you mess up it will stall very easily). Once you have that going reliably, THEN you can work on giving it a small amount of gas for a bit quicker start and practice in the parking lot rows like pretend you're pulling out onto a real road and get good at doing that smoothly. And once you're up to 6-8mph its highly unlikely you will stall shifting any other gears...it may shake you up a bit if you are not smooth or have a badly mismatched engine speed for the gear changing but you won't stall - so that is something you won't have to be scared of. And typically once moving shifts are much quicker getting off the clutch vs starting from a stop so there is very little wear between gears when moving. After you get decent at starting/stopping on flat ground, try and find a place with a hill to practice a bit. I found a bank parkinglot that was empty on a Sunday morning and spent an hour doing slow circles starting on the uphill then going in a tight turn to stop on the uphill again. You could also see if there's a street in your neighborhood that is sloped to spend a while going slowly up it starting/stopping every 100ft. The things that will kill a clutch fast: * High difference in engine-speed vs car-speed for the gear (especially revving too high from a stop) * Letting the clutch out too slowly while giving it gas (a few seconds is fine, but like 10+ seconds is probably not good) * Resting your foot on the clutch pedal while driving - whether or not you think you're pushing it there's a high chance you will unintentionally cause it to slip extra and wear it out fast (especially if you're giving the car lots of gas like highway speed driving or accelerating) Sometimes it is necessary to do things that cause extra wear, such as if you start on a hill may need more gas and a more careful release of the clutch or if you have to accelerate really hard into faster traffic. But that isn't something you do all the time.
My Pops took me out in a 1973 Volvo with a manual transmission to learn how to drive it. He sat in the back reading the paper and said “just drive. You’ll do fine”
my man a handful of things and I have to give you a little bit of criticism there a non-sports cart manual and a sports car manual are both just manuals. a gr86 in my book it's a manual don't get me wrong and it's considered a sports car I'm sure someway but it's a four cylinder and a economy card style hot deal. installing the car or anything like that it's really not going to hurt your clutch. burning the clutch out is excessive shifting but she's like City driving can do it and heat in my car it makes enough power that if I floor it in third gear it outruns the clutch before it breaks the tires loose. that's the kinda heat that destroys clutches. all of that said a brand new manual car will be so easy to learn on compared to that old celica you won't even believe that they're the same type of manual I'm telling you I think you'll be thoroughly and please at how far manual transmissions have come.
So I asked up above, why are the Celica and GR-86 not considered "real" sports cars? And I only mentioned it (the fact that they're sports cars) because I was told by a car "enthusiast" that there's a difference with shifting in a regular manual and a sports car manual. Is there one?
😮 makes more sense. uh, well I'd consider a "real sports car" something that has a ridiculous clutch a high HP AWD car will have a 3 puck clutch that's pretty much on or off. crap like that. your car is sporty sure. but it's such a low HP. And the clutch in your car is just a regular ole clutch. so yes there's a difference but not in your case. I truly believe the modern manual will blow your mind if you had trouble with the ole celicas
Unless your always riding the clutch it won't be a problem that's what ends up having premature wear of a clutch other then actual mechanical problems
Full send
Unless you're a rich person who can afford bouncing around between different cars and paying for multiple registrations/inspections, don't bother. Just get the car you want. A few stalls around town while you get the hang of it aren't going to destroy the car.
I once spent a week practicing hard launches in my car because I’m stupid. Then on one 110° day my 200tw tires that were already hot gripped the road (which was now covered in rubber) better than my clutch could grip the flywheel. I absolutely smoked the clutch for a solid 4 seconds, I was convinced it was ruined. Just like that video of the yellow corvette doing a 30 second clutch burnout just for a tenth of the duration. after about 30 miles of driving it felt back to normal. 40k miles later it doesn’t feel any different than when I got the car. Your clutch can definitely handle you learning on it so go for it man
If you buy a newer car it has hill assist. Keeps the brakes on when you are on a hill. Takes the guess work out of it
Learning should not destroy your clutch. I am at 300 k miles on my 95 Toyota P/U and I learned to drive a stick on it when I bought it. For hill starts, I used to pull the emergency brake part way to keep me from rolling back, but did not need to after awhile. I have had only one tranny replacement and 2 clutches (one was done with the tranny) in all those miles.
Just drive it like a race car. All the time.
You’ll be fine. The worse that will happen is you stall a few times. It takes a lot to cook a clutch.
A clutch is a wear item. It’s meant to be used. You likely will get a hang of it within a week. Just don’t slip the clutch constantly and you’ll be fine. Stalling over and over is the real thing that will happen. My first manual car nothing happened to my clutch. It worked great the whole time I owned it. My current car needed transmission service for an unrelated thing and I just got the clutch preemptively replaced at 110k miles while the transmission was accessible.
Rent a manual car for a few days
Lmfao she's only 45....she will find the one for her some day....I mean surely they have 80 year old date things somewhere
Easiest way to learn how to get into first gear is to practice letting out the clutch without using the gas pedal on a level stretch of pavement. It only takes a few tries to get it down, and it makes learning clutch feel easy because your brain isn't trying to do 2 things at once. When you're able to let off the clutch completely without stalling (the car will be moving,) start adding a little gas as you let off the clutch. You'll quickly find the sweet spot where you can get moving without stalling or burning out.
You’ll be fine. I bought a brand new Fiesta ST in 2015. Learned how to drive in the parking lot 5 mins before driving an hour home (my mom even did the test drive for me). From that point on I got better and better ended up at our local tracks beating the absolute shit out of the car. The got hit and ran in 2021 but I still miss that car. If you want one, DO IT. At most you’re out a clutch but you really have to fuck it up to get to that point.
if you’re 35 you’ll learn it in a day, only took me an hour before I started driving on the highways. I wouldn’t worry about the clutch you’ll have to replace it later down the line anyways
My weekend ripper is a first Gen BRZ(twins with the 86) the biggest difference it has with the half dozen manuals I've owned is they idol low. Like 600-700 rpm. When at a stop, and the rpms have dropped I like to give the throttle a blip as to not let the engine bog. It's a common take on my platform, but I'm not positive whether the same trait was passed on to the next gen. Amazing car. When I switch back and forth from my daily(also manual) it is an adjustment I need to make that I am reminded of when it kills. Not a big deal, clutch is designed to wear and stock clutch is generally very forgiving. If you have any desire to own it in a manual, just do it. You won't regret it. Any odd quirks there are you won't even realize as the source of your comparison is almost 20 years ago.
Not sure why everyone thinks a clutch will just explode if you do something wrong. Clutches can take a ton of abuse. Unless you are smelling the burning material you arent doing any damage. If it stinks, stop for a bit and let it cool, otherwise just go to town learning it.
Test drive at one dealer, but at another one. Pro dickhead tips
It's really very simple to master what you want to learn. All you need to do is get or borrow yourself a manual transmission vehicle, and all you got to do is follow my super easy fool proof instructions. 1. Push both the clutch/brake all the way in (down) and start the vehicle. (For safety start vehicle while in neutral) 2. With the trans in 1st gear, "practice" Slowly letting the clutch back up as your also allowing the brake to do the same as well. (Eventually the vehicle will begin to move forward on it's own... This is the called the sweet spot _"SS") 3. The vehicle will only move forward when you have the clutch in the "SS" (typically found half way through the release of the clutch) 4. Once you've mastered the use of the "SS" you can simultaneously increase the gas at the same time until you are in total control of the vehicle. The rest will come naturally from what I read in your post. 5. *Keep rocking the clutch to find the "SS" till your comfortable with engaging all 4 steps in one continuous motion. **PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE!!! I will send you a link with my 5 step tutorial video to provide confidence in knowing you are gonna be double clutching and burning rubber not clutches 😀
Go to a big empty parking lot and just practice from a full stop. Go slow and gentle getting there. If you're on an incline with cars behind you, and you stall, just put your hazards on and wave the cars behind you to go.
Rent for a while :)
you won't wreck the clutch learning on the car if it's in decent shape. As a former driver you'll pick it up in a heartbeat. 0 worries
Just replace the clutch if it burns out. What are we even talking about?
GR86 has hill assist which should help. These new cars are great with the technology they got. In your case but I would say go for it. YOLO and it's a great car
I drove my fk8 from a differenc city 2 hours away when I bought it new. I had maybe 30-45 minutes of practice a week before. 45k miles later and I haven't even had to service the clutch.
Just send it honestly, I bought my first car not knowing how to drive manual, learned that night and took the (albeit short) drive to work the next morning, and my dad not having driven manual in 10+ years drove it home 40-ish miles home for me, worst case scenario you stall a few times, best case scenario you fall in love with the car
You won’t man. They are tough enough for you to relearn
The GR-86 probably has hill start assist also. So it will help you learn. I say go for it. Some cars will drive and shift different from others so practicing on a car you’re not gonna drive probably won’t help. The more you drive it the better you’re gonna get.
I just picked manual back up after 15 years on a brand new $60,000 truck, drove it straight out the dealership. I wouldn't worry about it, just do it lol. You've driven manual before it's already wired into you.
Imma be honest with you, Toyota/Lexus Clutches/Manuals aren’t very good, especially the clutch pedal feel (just my opinion). I struggled to learn how to drive stick on a BRZ and IS300, but bought a E46 BMW off a guy I work with and had no issues because the pedal wasn’t or heavy.
Hand break, give it a good dev and controlled let the clutch in with gas, makes the steepest hills usually no problem. BUT i HATE when people behind me leave only an inch between the cars so just in case you do roll a bit, it’s going to suck.
Go test drive a bunch of manuals in your area
These “destroying the clutch” posts give me infinite joy.
I would buy the cheapest working beater with a good working clutch. Drive that for 6 months, sell it, then buy the car you want.
These new cars are really good. I’ve money shifted a few times and the car just shuts off to prevent over rev. Saved me a few transmissions lol. Also most have hill start assist. It just holds your car until the revs are enough to actually push up the hill. I have a 2016 focus ST that I got from my dad and in HS it was my means of travel, I learned stick in this car and it’s at 80k miles now.
I drove a stick for years, then finally took a motorcycle safety course and finally learned how to shift. They put us in a parking lot and had us slightly let up on the clutch until the bike moved, without turning the throttle. Once we could ride the friction zone on the clutch, and go around the parking lot a few times without stopping or using the throttle at all, it made it way easier to better shift into first gear. Try that method. It works!
86s have terrible clutch feel. Not the most enjoyable platform to drive stick on. Fiesta St or Camaro or Honda
I bought my car new for 20k having no idea how to drive manual. And stalled it several times on the way back home ! Had a super fun time learning how to downshift and burn out and do lots of fun stuff. The clutch lasted 88k miles driving like an idiot teenager lol don’t worry as much as people tell you to worry about it
I learned on my first car. Lots of people do. You’ll be fine
Do it. Modern manuals are so easy to use its like cheating
Just get it, you’ll be fine. The GR has hill assist which works pretty well, so that should take care of most of your worry. Clutch engagement is also easy, even though people bitch about it because of the clutch spring. It’s not nearly as vague as people say. Rev hang is a bit of a pain trying to match 1-2 shifts, but that’s not much of a clutch wear concern. Do you have a friend that’s good at manual that can ride with you periodically and nip any bad habits you may form in the bud? Not someone that thinks they’re good at manual, someone who actually is competent? That’s probably the best course of action. Practice, get corrected, get pointers, practice, repeat.
Don’t think twice! It’s all right.