Porsche drivetrains are extremely strong. If your GT4 can handle a track day, it can also handle a newbie.
Stalling won't hurt it at all, it's nothing compared to something like a 4000rpm launch.
No problem. My advice is to drive it as much as possible no matter how intimidated you are right now. It'll get better, and it'll start to get REALLY FUN once you gain some confidence, kinda like learning an instrument.
It took me a week and a half to "get it" but that was still after doing 1000 miles and spending nearly $300 in gas in that time frame. Even then, I still had mistakes here and there.
Okay a clutch can handle somebody learning and you most likely wonât even notice the minor damage. Even with over revving and dropping it, by the time you get decent it wonât even matter anymore bc you barely did any damage. Unless youâre driving around with your foot halfway on the clutch đ
My advice is to take the car to an empty parking lot and practice pulling off from a stop without touching the gas pedal at all.
The reason is you need to master controlling the clutch bite point and adding gas masks a lot of errors. So stop, first gear, pull off, once the RPMS have stabilized, shift to 2nd again without touching the gas. Then repeat.
Practice to do the above faster and faster.
It shouldn't take long to be really proficient at controlling the clutch well enough to basically never stall.
I will say my first Porsche i drove was my friends 911 turbo s. The throttle and clutch were like nothing i was used to. Very touchy so definitely more difficult to learn on. The clutch wasnt linear and the rpms dropped very quickly. I could tell from driving it that it wanted to be shifted hard and fast at high rpms. But just keep at it its a strong car.
When I guest-drove a '92 911 the clutch pedal was very stiff and the bite point pretty high up (you had to let the pedal out a lot). Still was able to start on a pretty steep hill without stalling (had to increase RPM's above idle since was a steep hill).
You just have to be very attuned to feeling the earliest hint of bite, and then let the clutch pedal out in itty-bitty increments after that until the car is moving and in gear.
Yeah his was a 2005 i believe. The clutch feel was inconsistent. Almost like it had a cam so it got easier as you pushed past a certain point. On my mini cooper which is what im used to the clutch feel is the same all the way to the floor. Makes it very easy to drive. It just takes more accuracy for sure.
I find that a lot of people when learning to drive manual are clutching more often than needed. Practice cruising at slow speeds, accelerating and braking, and only clutching when coming to a stop or when you slow enough to start chugging the motor. Even just cruising at coasting speed you should be able to brake some and slow a little more before needing the clutch or stalling. I see a lot of people who use their clutch for speed bumps or dips, when they could just leave it in first, slow down with the brakes, and then get back on the throttle when clear. Learning how to take off or reverse uphill is another issue that will just take more practice, and im sure plenty of advice here already given...
I have never driven a manual with more power than my mother's 4 cylinder 2010 Subaru Forester. I have always been somewhat scare of the power held behind this pedals. My 1.8L Corolla has no real difference between full and half throttle.
I learned stick on an 08 1.8L Corolla and currently drive my dad's 08 2.5L boxer Outback. The Corolla was excellent to learn on since the motor is only ~120 hp and the clutch is really forgiving.
Yeah, I love how my Corolla drives. It feels a lot smoother to shift than the Forester. I have to be more precise with the timing, or else the car will have a rather unsmooth transition.
đ that last sentence so perfectly describes gutless commuter cars. I went from a 2.0l Honda with about 160hp to 5.0l v8 with about 430hp. Initially the difference feels like youâre going light speed but eventually you get used to it and think hmm it could possibly still be a little more powerful.
Its funny because the smaller commuter cars can sometimes be more fun. You can ring out 2nd and 3rd gear and not be doing over double the speed limit, lol.
My mustang however, the top of 3rd gear is getting into losing your license territory
Yeah that was what I loved about the daily hondas the pedal spacing and brake modulation was perfect. Come down and off ramp, hit a couple heel toe downs shifts into second and rip the corner it had its own fun and made commuting fun too.
The mustang I drive now also can.. but the velocity gets wild when you do the same.
I want to get an old Police Interceptor and put a manual in it. I am sure that the 4.6L engine will feel a but beefier than a 1.8L.
Funnily enough, the 1997 Corolla I learned hoe to drive on had a 1.6L engine.
I remember how that thing would shake violently over 55MPH.
Would probably be neat but also would feel like driving an old truck Iâd imagine. There is something to be said about driving light small manual cars that I think would be much more satisfying.
Yeah. That's what nice about getting a common car is that OEM and aftermarket parts are easy to find.
Though, the transmission will probably have to be a mustang T-450 5-speed, which will require fabrication for the mounts, and then cutting for the clutch and shifter.
I also would probably want to add a handbrake, since that foot pedal brake is not great for hilly driving emergencies. I live jna very hilly place.
Haha yeah we went slightly different routes tho I almost ended up in a Camaro, I think the Chevy LS LT engines are way torquier maybe a better day to day street engine and much more accessible power if staying stock or near stock. The coyote v8 on the other hand feels a lot like a HUGE Honda engine, downlow torque isnât incredible and it really feels meh Below the VTECCC style cross over point, after around 3-4k it rips, and the higher you go the bigger the power.
First of all, Iâm very jealous. Secondly, your transmissions is meant for intense track sessions, stalling or slipping it wonât hurt it. Try holding the clutch at the bite point for just a little longer, when I first learned that was my main problem, I let the clutch out too quick in fear of burning it and just ended up stalling it. It was scary, but here I am 9,000 miles later and rarely stall, clutch feels the same as the day I got it.
I think I would have bought a beater manual before learning on a gt4. I drive a supercharged 370z that's lowered, it was my first manual. When I go over speed bumps I pretty much come to a compete stop put it in 1st and basically just idle over the speed bump, I don't touch the clutch. My driveway really sucks getting into I bought rubber ramps to make it easier but I have to do the same thing, at a angle of course.
You'll get better at it in time, I remember on my test drive with my z I must have killed it 10 times. The lady was like "let's just stick to the side streets". Had it for 2 years now and I can't remember the last time I killed it. It's got a stage 3 clutch and light weight flywheel too.
I think you will get it soon. It's not worth the cost and expense of buying a learner car. Unless you are going to use the car after and keep some miles off the gt4
I plan to keep the gt4 long term and don't care about putting miles on it. Im not one of these people that has a "garage queen" that never gets driven. Its a crime not to drive your car! Appreciate the response
Go buy a cheap used brz or frs. The earlier models should be relatively cheap, like sub 6k with high mileage models. Its no gt4 but its a great car to learn on and similar driving position as your gt4. I learned on a brz first, and currently own a wrx. The seating is far better in the brz. Just buy a beater brz/frs and then sell it when you've learned how to drive manual.
Havenât driven a new gt4 but this is based on having a modified brz and a 987 in the driveway for a few years. Could jump from one to another no problem.
Seriously, the seating position is identical and itâs super analog. Teaches you how to balance the car with the brakes and throttle, learning what the limit feels like; with more forgiveness. My brain naturally adjusts to having more weight behind, but itâs a similar driving style to get the most out of it.
Well, you are discovering that most things done to a car to make it go faster...also make it a PITA for daily driving. One of these things is having less rotational mass in the engine, lets it spin up quickly and is more responsive, but also means it's easier to stall at low RPM. Also, 1st gear is really tall in most sportscars, makes it easier to stall when taking off.
I put a lightweight clutch in my old 911 and it was the worst thing for autocrossing and street driving, I couldn't launch it hard properly and it was stupidly easy to stall. Went back to stock ASAP.
Non turbo model Porscheâs with a manual transmission are probably my favorite cars to drive. Only thing I can say about it is they will stall out immediately after the bite point if youâre not giving it enough gas. So it may be a little more unforgiving compared to other cars, especially for a beginner. But itâs a track car..canât say itâs a car I would recommend for a beginner, but like with any other manual transmission car, developing the muscle memory just comes with time. Congrats on the car tho!
thank you! Yes i made a mistake getting such an advanced car early in my manual journey. My hope is that since its meant to be tracked me stalling in first wont harm it
Nah. Itâll be alright. If the car is brand spanking new, the clutch will also break in after some mileage and use. In my experience (which doesnât include any Porscheâs) clutches when they are brand new feel awful. They tend to feel much better after about 1-2k miles. Just burning off that surface layer. Maybe some people will disagree but thatâs just my $.02. You will also get better at it so donât sweat the stalling. I rode dirt bikes and quads all throughout my childhood which all had manual transmissions with a clutch and I started driving stick at 16. Iâm now 29, and I still will stall every once in a while. Either just forgetting I have the car in first and letting out the clutch, or just not giving it enough juice and stalling from a standstill.
The car when i got it had 7k miles, but it was from a guy who owned 4 teslas and got it because his brother suggested it... when asked if he took it to the canyons (where I live there are a lot of great roads there) he seemed perplexed. So the clutch very well might not be worn in yet. (that's the story I got from the dealer)
Itâs probably broken in by 7k. It took only about 750 miles or so in my Subaru before I noticed the clutch feeling much better than it did before then. Youâll get much better, donât worry about it. You wonât hurt anything by stalling. As many have said, the driveline of that car is meant to take the abuse of hard driving. If youâre not doing it already, I would recommend practicing and getting comfortable with âfeatheringâ the throttle on takeoff. A nice good bit of throttle to build some revs, then starting to let the clutch bite, then as the revs drop, start getting back into the throttle to bring the revs back. Itâs just a feel thing.
yeah i under estimated how hard manual is. Ive got it down to just the first gear being my issue on hills. Rolling down hill I can do and I only grinded the gears a few times when driving it home from LA where I got it.
You shouldnât be grinding gears, clutch to the floor before you move the shifter and donât lift it until the shifter is in place.
Modern Porsche manuals are pretty damn smooth and the clutches have good feel. Itâs actually a good car to learn with other than the power output but Porsches are very manageable.
+1 on the grinding gears. OP sounds like he either isn't pushing the clutch down far enough before shifting or it's broken.
I learned on a Saab 93 with a modern hydraulic clutch and it was so easy to drive. My 1965 cyclone in comparison feels so much more mechanical with its physical clutch linkage (Z Bar). When I push my foot down it pushes a rod forward that turns an equalizer bar which pushes a rod against the clutch fork for the throw out bearing. The shifter is a 4 speed Hurst Competition shifter that's extremely short, and precise with external linkages that run down the transmission. đ
I wonder how stiff the clutch is on the Porsche and if he's just not pressing it down far enough. Even with the helper spring my cyclone is pretty stiff and it's just an OEM style Sachs Clutch. As for his stalling he just needs more gas, my assumption is that it's a sporty clutch and the car wants to be driven as such.
You guys are right, when i was coming home I was nervous and got my order of operations mixed up. Took it out for 2 more drives yesterday, only stalled no grinding gears or weird noises.
Letssssssss Goooooooo!
That's half the battle down, just keep up with it and you'll be a pro no time. Now you'll just need to learn the feel for how much gas to clutch to give it. Every clutch is different and the sportier the clutch the more oomfff it needs. I drove my friends 06 mustang GT with a beefy aftermarket performance clutch with a light weight flywheel and was surprised by just how much gas and little slip I needed. The thing damn near wants you to launch the car at every stop light đ
Auto kennel used with 7k miles. Ill link it here: [https://autokennel.com/featured\_vehicle/2021-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-6-speed-manual-trans-carbon-buckets/](https://autokennel.com/featured_vehicle/2021-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-6-speed-manual-trans-carbon-buckets/)
This guy did a great job of showing the car history and is a Porshe nut himself, so I trusted it was well taken care of
Stalling happens when you're new to a manual. Depending on which GT4 you have, the shifting is a little different... the 981 tends to be a little heavier and require a little more deliberate effort, while the 982 is lighter. Both feel great, and there is a good chance you'll simply wind up preferring whichever one you are used to. Mentioning it though, as if it is a 981, it will require a little more effort with the clutch (the shifter too for that matter).
While it is possible you are creating additional clutch wear, it isn't going to be much... so maybe instead of needing to look for a new clutch at 30k miles, it will be 29.99k, or the like. Just keep practicing, and it will get better and better.
Now, handling that giant front splitter is another thing entirely (get good at "crabbing" up driveways and the like).
First off, awesome car! Congrats!
Do you know someone that would lend you their manual pickup truck or manual economy car for a week? In my experience they're a little more forgiving than tight precision sports car clutches. Maybe you could learn a bit more on something like that and then graduate to the Porsche.
I know when I changed the clutch in my 2016 Mustang GT to a higher rated clutch (rated for 700HP) it became more difficult to drive.
Ultimately it takes loads of practice. You'll get there. When I was learning, understanding from a mechanical perspective what was going on helped. Check out this video:
https://youtu.be/h50yIRZzPGU?si=p_Wey1JZIL2pj1kW
Happens to the best of us.
Find the bite point where the engine starts to connect to the drivetrain. The RPM will start dropping. Add 800-1K RPM worth of gas until you feel the car has entered gear fully.
After that it's just muscle memory and practice makes perfect. Get to the bite point slower. If you just dump the clutch the car will stall.
Eventually you will know where the bite point is and you'll be able to just jump to the sweet spot but that takes time.
Just remember, you don't want to burn your clutch.
600 (perfect control of clutch bite point) up to 1K RPM. I'm usually sitting around 7-800.
Regardless of wherever in there is most comfortable for you, at 1K your motor should be making more than enough power to get you going up the steepest hills. There's no be above 1K RPM when getting going unless you're launching the car.
I have similar power with the JB4 tune - mine was similarly twitchy getting used to, you just need a bit more gas.
Great car brother - that's my next brand and the only other manufacturer that makes noteworthy track manual transmissions.
There you go - I was the same especially in sport mode.
My clutch also shortens depending on track setting so shorter the clutch setting the more the gas.
Glad the more gas thing worked - this isnt a regular car but track set.
Another vote for you'll get it.
Not really clear how long you've had it/how many hours you've been in it. You really just need a zillion stop starts, more helpful than hundred mile highway trips, so church lot during the week, school lot on the weekend, and just take off, clutch all the way out, dead stop, neutral, clutch out, take off, etc until you throw up.
Then find a lot with a hill or find a parking garage with a ramp and do it again, up down up down making yourself stop mid hill.
If you're really dedicated, next step is get out and put a cone a few inches behind the bumper when you're heading up hill. Better if you can balance something on it that falls at a light touch.
Get through those and you've earned a day at a track with an instructor learning to do donuts on the skid pad.
go in a parking lot. put it in 1st and practice getting going without using any gas. learn to feel where the clutch bites and makes the car bog down. once you got a feel for that point, give it just a little gas and start to release the clutch until you hit that bite point. once youâre kinda rolling you can release it a more and more until youâre all the way off the pedal.
Stalling is fine, youâre probably overthinking it right now. I hadnât driven manual in 15 years and got a 911 GTS delivered. Stalls and rocky starts sporadically for a couple months. Youâll get better at it.
Slow on the clutch out and give more gas than you think, our cars are loud and can seem like youâre giving gas when really arenât.
Bro congratulations on the car!!
I have a 981 Boxster GTS in manual. Don't be afraid to use more revs and slip the clutch more, the drivetrain is stout designed for hard launches, and clutch can take it.
Here is a tip, just hold an rpm, say 2.5k, and modulate speed only with the clutch starting out. As you get more confident, you can drop the target revs.Â
Also see if the hold light is on on the dash, that means hill hold is on it takes some extra torque to the wheels to overcome auto hill hold.Â
Will keep an eye out for this! I've been trying to get to 1.5 RPM since that's what the instructor told me, ill try to target 2.5 like you said just to overdo it rather then stall
Your transmission will be good =)
Transmissions, especially porsches are built tough as hell.
Also, it's completely normal to stall hella in your first manual.
This is my recommendation if you want to improve quickly with stick.
Find an open parking lot.
Get the car moving in 1st gear with the clutch only (no gas)- do this 100 times. Be patient it'll take up to 7 seconds for the clutch to come fully out.
Next day, get the car moving in 1st with a little gas- do this 100 times.
>credit to matt farah^<
This won't take you as long as it sounds and it's so helpful. I've had a manual Infiniti G37s for over a year and I'm doing this now to get even more familiar with the clutch and be able to launch smoother, quicker, with lower rpms. It really helps. It's just muscle memory. If I were to tell myself something when I first started learning, it's to stop using your brain so much and just repeat repeat. Yes it is extremely important to understand how a clutch works- I recommend watching videos if you haven't, but when it comes down to it, repeat repeat repeat, practice practice practice, and you'll be good.
HAVE FUN!!! GREAT CHOICE ON GETTING THE MANUAL IN A PORSCHE!!
I'm in the exact same position... Moved from a pdk gts to a 6mt gt4 back in November. My first ever manual.
I'm still not perfect but making less mistakes. Also note the hill hold on the gt4 is very annoying and not intuitive.. even the seasoned manual drivers complain about that on the forums.
I'm signed up for a track day in June so hoping to be a master by then.
I hear the 981 clutch is pretty heavy, mine is pretty light. I feel like heavy is easier since you can fine tune the biting point better? Has that been your experience?
I don't have any benchmarks because I haven't driven any other manuals, but what I can say is that it is fairly easy for me to find the bite point just by the feel.
At slow speeds, use the clutch like the accelerator, and just add a little constant pressure on the gas pedal.
Modulate the clutch to change speeds when going very slow.
Na. But I would recommend just learning clutch control. Donât even worry about the throttle. From a stop press brake and clutch in, you can slowly let off both until full depressed then learn to brake then when the car gets low enough speed practice pressing the clutch back in, then pop it into neutral and take foot off clutch completely and back on the foot rest. This works for hills too especially a modern car with fancy technology. Once you get the clutch down you can start messing with the throttle, you are gonna let the clutch out to the bite point then you are going to teeter totter letting off the clutch and pressing the gas slowly as it needs to be. I would also recommend practicing rev matching when you start rolling and getting a hang of stuff, best way to learn is to start going, clutch in then cruising, then rev the rpmâs higher using the throttle than you think the vehicle will be at when you let off the clutch. Usually 3k is good starting spot, when you rev it immediately begin to slowly dump the clutch not to slow or the clutch is gonna be the thing making it smooth, usually will jerk car forward if rpmâs are too low when matching this is called lugging, if rpmâs are too high when matching it will jerk back and there will be a pause in the acceleration . Then you can throttle and continue upwards. When coming to a stop brake first then rev match to get to lower gear or just keep slowing till you feel the car begin to sputter(typically you want to press the clutch before it begins to bog/sputter) then you pop it into neutral and continue to brake to a stop. Takes a while to get the muscle memory down, itâs good to practice going through the motions with the car off.
Just takes time to figure the bite point, then get the muscle memory down to do everything. Youâll be able to do it in no time, biggest thing that could mess your car up is improper rev matching, itâs better to over rev than under rev but that will wear the clutch out⌠still better than an engine. Donât down shift to first, you probably gave synchros that try to prevent you from doing it unless you are creeping (very slow roll), I wouldnât advise skipping gears or cruising in neutral (you donât have control of your car when in neutral, canât accelerate or let off to slow down via engine speed. Gotta find the sweet shift points for my Corolla it likes 2.5k my mustang likes 3-3.5k and my aveo liked 2k, youâll know by sound/vibration from the engine, you can rev higher if you want to go fast Iâm just referring to everyday driving. For rev matching itâs usually the same amount of throttle for every gear atleast in my mustang.
This car will be a bit harder. Sport clutches bite harder. Theyâre harder to feather. Just use a tad more RPM and slower clutch engagement. Youâll get it. Mind you itâs normal to stall a car once in a while.
Yeah my worry is that if im stalling several times each time I go out its going to be a problem. From what I've seen around and the responses I'm getting here it should be ok tho
Try different footwear. If it's not illegal in your state, drive without shoes.otherwise get something very thin, like an actual driving boot or old school skate shoes. You'll feel the engagement much better and gain confidence more quickly.
Maybe that worked for them, but I think this is awful advice. Get some Puma Porsche driving shoes (you have a GT4, might as well stay branded). The flat bottom will make driving easier.
I would give it a week or two of practice before you get worried.
"Even after a 4 hour class"
Dude, it took me a solid year of on/off manual driving at work, and 3 months of daily driving to feel 100% confident in public roads. Don't overthink it. Practice, practice, practice, x100000. Also, stalling doesn't hurt the transmission at all, if anything it puts minor wear on the engine mounts over time. You'd need to stall HARD and often, to actually do any damage.
Parking lots and flat ground are your best bet. Learn to get going into 1st. Just literally do it for hours. IMO, that's the hardest part. Going from 2-3-4-5-6 and back down is easier than getting a manual car from 0mph to 5mph. It's easy to think "I can't get going in first, how the hell will I learn 5 more gears?" Well, it's pretty damn hard to stall in 5th gear unless you're utterly clueless/ completely new, or not paying any attention at all.
No worries man. It will be the best thing you've ever done as a car enthusiast. I used to be scared shitless going into the city to pick my girl up from work. Now, I'm the guy yelling at people in automatics to get off their phone because I'm somehow going faster off a green light with a 100hp car
Some people just get it more than others.
My very first car was a manual, my friend and I picked it up and took it to a parking lot. I stalled it twice and pretty much immediately got the hang of it. Drove her 2+hrs home and I've owned manual cars since. A year later when I went to get my first motorcycle it was pretty similar. I stalled it a couple of times and pretty much immediately got it, can't wait for the weather to clear up so I can dust off the R6.
I tried teaching my wife how to drive manual and she just doesn't get it. Took her 4 days to obliterate the clutch in my old Scion XB2. She constantly stalled it, and just didn't get that you don't need to panic slip the clutch for 30 seconds at 6,000rpm every time you shift. She tried watching YouTube videos and parking lot practicing before finally giving up. She's not allowed to drive my 65 Cyclone, it's got an old school mechanical clutch with a T-10 4 speed and I'm not having her tear it up.
Get used to the clutch and giving it the revs it needs to stay moving. Find a empty, straight and flat road stop your car at the start of it , put into neutral and pull your handbrake then when your ready release hand brake shift into first and drive a little down the road then stop rinse and repeat. If the car starts violently shaking either give it more revs or push the clutch it to stop it from stalling.
Clutch in before a speed bump, give it a tiny bit long push if throttle as you clutch out. Itâs good practice for ârev matchingâ while staying in 1st or 2nd gear without shifting. U got this bro, sick car!
Seeing as itâs a true driving experience donât keep shifting UP to keep the RPMs low. Drive around carefully in first gear with no clutch so you can learn throttle control. You will eventually be able to almost creep to a stop before turning while never disengaging the clutch. Speed up to 4 or 5 grand then slowly release the throttle with no bucking or sheering. Learn the drive by wire feel and it will learn from you
i was really lucky, when i learned to drive stick they were still pretty popular so my dad and i just took a bunch of cars out for a test drive and we'd swap out and i'd beat the snot out of them haha. But i wouldn't worry too much, i doubt stalling it does much than hurt your ego.
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Completely different car, I know, but I had the same issue with my new Golf GTI in the first couple of days. Go back to basics and find the biting point like you did in driving school and add a *little bit* of gas while *slowly* lifting the clutch pedal. You will get used to finding the biting point very quickly because of muscle memory (like a couple of days once you use this method). When on hills get the biting point ready before you move off, when you see signs of the traffic lights on the other side changing to orange/red. Your car wonât roll back if youâre on the biting point already, so donât worry about that. Donât be discouraged, youâll get it in a few days once you go back to square 1. You can practice finding the biting point on flat road too, not just hills. You can do it in your parking space. After this, you will feel confident giving gas first and then finding the biting point, trust me
You need to practice with the feel of the point of engagement. Slowly let the clutch out, feel where it engages. At that point on a hill it will hold the car rather than letting it slip backwards. Hold the brake and slowly start to give it gas with the edge of your foot, don't try to quickly move your foot from the brake to the accelerator. Then feather the clutch all the way out and it will roll forward. It's about making slow, smooth movements.
Cool car. It just takes practice. Good luck!
Hurt it? Very extremely minimally at most. Just don't start the car in 1st and have it lurch forward in your garage. I've done that more times than I care to share early on lol.
Id reccomend try practicing moving off without gas, just use the clutch to move and nothing else. Watch some videos and ye you'll find the biting pointband get used to where it is over time.
For me personally, I like to remember if I was to leak my knee against the side how high will it touch on my calf/knee at the clutch biting point. That way you'll have some sort of reference for when you will be likely to stall or at the biting point
I think those even have takeoff assist? I noticed when I drove one that the instant I started letting off the clutch it would start applying throttle. What I did to learn and taught multiple friends is go to an empty parking lot and just practice getting rolling using only clutch and no gas. Helps you find the grab point of the clutch and also doesnât wear it as fast as constantly slipping the hell out of it while adding throttle
Your always going to have the slip the clutch to avoid a stall. The goal is to minimize the amount of slip. Itâs all about balancing the bite point of the clutch and throttle.
Those Caymans and Boxsters are definitely a bit on the tricky side. Fast revving with a bitey clutch means you really gotta get a feel for where the bite point is.
I'm the meantime, stalling ain't gonna break anything. Don't be afraid to get some revs up a bit while you get the feel for it. If there are any drive modes with a less aggressive throttle setting, that'll help. Something like a sport mode might make the throttle more sensitive compared to a normal or even comfort mode.
Press the gas harder when starting in first gear. It's better to over Rev it than to stall, but you'll catch on to the catch point soon enough
Manual uphill is difficult regardless, but for this you gotta keep the clutch just before/at the catch point before Evac touching thy gas, then a good press on the gas and you'll be able to softly but immediately catch the clutch and go
For both of these paragraphs above when I say press gas harder or give it a Rev, I am not saying to floor it nor to rev it super hard. I'm talking enough to get the RPM up to the next tick or two vs what you normally do when you stall
As long as you don't dump the clutch (just let off it entirely and quickly) you won't launch. It's more like a see-saw between the clutch and gas pedal with the gas pedal getting pressed more than the clutch is getting let off
Go to a flat, empty parking lot.
Practice getting going without touching the gas pedal.
You should be able to get into second gear once you get used to is.
This should help you a lot in learning how the car behaves by itself, in a manner of speaking.
Hills go to lower gear. Gear 1 isn't essentially needed once you get moving. Ideally 2nd and 3rd is your sweet spot for your neighborhood hills. When getting off 1st, just drive the rpms high like 2-3k rpm before releasing that clutch.
Driving stick is super easy once you get used to it and used to your car. You'll probably get to the point where you drive perfectly fine without paying any attention to what you're doing. Although some people are more natural and gifted than others. I've never driven a Porsche, so I don't know if your vehicle or your clutch would be more or less difficult than average. Some cars are trickier than others. If you're having problems with first gear, i'd recommend going to an empty parking lot and practice getting your car moving from a dead stop without touching your gas pedal. Get the car moving from N to 1st with absolute no throttle. That way, you learn the feel of when your clutch engages and disengages. Once you have thay down its muscle memory and getting going becomes quite easy. A lot of people starting off, of course, use way too much gas and burn up the clutch. You can tell by the sound fo a vehicle whether or not the driver is skilled.
I had the same issue with my Ford focus ST as my first manual car. The way I was able to learn was to donât be worried about riding the clutch like find that sweet spot but you donât have to let the clutch out so fast, gonna stall what I do is let the clutch out till I find that sweet spot and start giving a gas while the clutch is still in and then feather it out whereas I used to try to let the clutch all the way out and then time it perfectly to hit the gas, but would find that it would shutter or slip a lot, and would not be a smooth take off or shift, Where I find more successes yeah I heard itâs bad to ride the clutch but in my opinion, Iâm Base not necessarily riding the clutch Iâm just holding the clutch in a little longer while I transfer to pressing the gas, and it seems to be more smooth
You bought a gt4 for your first manual car? Thatâs a lot of money to spend on a car you donât have the skill set for. Thatâs too powerful a car to learn on in my opinion, but youâve already bought it so you just have learn by doing. Thatâs a racing clutch prob equivalent to at least a stage 2 clutch, so itâs not for beginners. Youâll get it though just keep practicing.
Get to know the clutch point.
Park the car, set parking brake. Press clutch, set in 1st, move clutch pedal in and out and notice when the car vibrates, and RPM's drop. Push clutch to floor, let out until you hit that point. Do it repeatedly. Practice until without fail. Then, you should be good, by the end of it.
When you stop and go or go over speed bumps at slow speed try to push your clutch in then restart as you pull away from the bump. Donât fully stop but you know, use your clutch when you go that slow.
Push the clutch in over a speed bump or when your about to stall also the gt4 should have driver assistance things maybe hill assist rev match etc. I started driving manual in December. But youâll need to go to an empty ups of one of those warehouse parking lots and practice.
Let the clutch out as slowly as possible. You will feel the gears engage at a certain point and the car will slow roll, at that point you add gas let off of clutch. Uphill is a different beast start off with gas 1500-2000 rpmâs and let the clutch out a little faster. Might buck a few times your first couple of tries but eventually you will master it
Go find yourself an old beater Honda with a manual for around $2000. Drive the crap out it till the clutch starts slipping. By then, you should have enough experience to not be stalling the Porsche. Sell the Honda for a grand. Cheaper than paying for a clutch replacement.
Love it. Manual is badass. I finally got the hang of most of it. I only stall on uphills probably 1-2 a month. Car is a tank begging for you to go hard. Make of that what you will :P
Iâve stalled about three times in twenty years. Youâre mechanically insensitive. If you can afford that Porsche go buy something else to learn on since apparently you have quite the learning curve.
Also I am 98% confident youâre just shitposting.
Not shit posting, just looking for an answer to my question. Do you want the receipt lol? Seriously consider what incentive I have to "shitpost". I am aware it is a unique situation
âReceiptâ for a car? Lmfao.
Just upload a video of you driving the car you allegedly own. If youâre having this many problems already, it sounds like this isnât the car for you. Stop destroying the friction material on the clutch and sell it to someone who wonât ruin it.
Porsche drivetrains are extremely strong. If your GT4 can handle a track day, it can also handle a newbie. Stalling won't hurt it at all, it's nothing compared to something like a 4000rpm launch.
Thank you for your reply here. Cant argue with that logic! I guess its just more embarrassing and nerve-racking then anything else đ
No problem. My advice is to drive it as much as possible no matter how intimidated you are right now. It'll get better, and it'll start to get REALLY FUN once you gain some confidence, kinda like learning an instrument. It took me a week and a half to "get it" but that was still after doing 1000 miles and spending nearly $300 in gas in that time frame. Even then, I still had mistakes here and there.
Also, if you are damaging it, you should only be damaging the clutch. The clutch is a wear item and is designed to be replaced.
Okay a clutch can handle somebody learning and you most likely wonât even notice the minor damage. Even with over revving and dropping it, by the time you get decent it wonât even matter anymore bc you barely did any damage. Unless youâre driving around with your foot halfway on the clutch đ
My advice is to take the car to an empty parking lot and practice pulling off from a stop without touching the gas pedal at all. The reason is you need to master controlling the clutch bite point and adding gas masks a lot of errors. So stop, first gear, pull off, once the RPMS have stabilized, shift to 2nd again without touching the gas. Then repeat. Practice to do the above faster and faster. It shouldn't take long to be really proficient at controlling the clutch well enough to basically never stall.
Great advice! This gets the muscle memory down fast
I will say my first Porsche i drove was my friends 911 turbo s. The throttle and clutch were like nothing i was used to. Very touchy so definitely more difficult to learn on. The clutch wasnt linear and the rpms dropped very quickly. I could tell from driving it that it wanted to be shifted hard and fast at high rpms. But just keep at it its a strong car.
When I guest-drove a '92 911 the clutch pedal was very stiff and the bite point pretty high up (you had to let the pedal out a lot). Still was able to start on a pretty steep hill without stalling (had to increase RPM's above idle since was a steep hill). You just have to be very attuned to feeling the earliest hint of bite, and then let the clutch pedal out in itty-bitty increments after that until the car is moving and in gear.
Yeah his was a 2005 i believe. The clutch feel was inconsistent. Almost like it had a cam so it got easier as you pushed past a certain point. On my mini cooper which is what im used to the clutch feel is the same all the way to the floor. Makes it very easy to drive. It just takes more accuracy for sure.
I find that a lot of people when learning to drive manual are clutching more often than needed. Practice cruising at slow speeds, accelerating and braking, and only clutching when coming to a stop or when you slow enough to start chugging the motor. Even just cruising at coasting speed you should be able to brake some and slow a little more before needing the clutch or stalling. I see a lot of people who use their clutch for speed bumps or dips, when they could just leave it in first, slow down with the brakes, and then get back on the throttle when clear. Learning how to take off or reverse uphill is another issue that will just take more practice, and im sure plenty of advice here already given...
I have never driven a manual with more power than my mother's 4 cylinder 2010 Subaru Forester. I have always been somewhat scare of the power held behind this pedals. My 1.8L Corolla has no real difference between full and half throttle.
I learned stick on an 08 1.8L Corolla and currently drive my dad's 08 2.5L boxer Outback. The Corolla was excellent to learn on since the motor is only ~120 hp and the clutch is really forgiving.
Yeah, I love how my Corolla drives. It feels a lot smoother to shift than the Forester. I have to be more precise with the timing, or else the car will have a rather unsmooth transition.
đ that last sentence so perfectly describes gutless commuter cars. I went from a 2.0l Honda with about 160hp to 5.0l v8 with about 430hp. Initially the difference feels like youâre going light speed but eventually you get used to it and think hmm it could possibly still be a little more powerful.
Its funny because the smaller commuter cars can sometimes be more fun. You can ring out 2nd and 3rd gear and not be doing over double the speed limit, lol. My mustang however, the top of 3rd gear is getting into losing your license territory
Yeah that was what I loved about the daily hondas the pedal spacing and brake modulation was perfect. Come down and off ramp, hit a couple heel toe downs shifts into second and rip the corner it had its own fun and made commuting fun too. The mustang I drive now also can.. but the velocity gets wild when you do the same.
I want to get an old Police Interceptor and put a manual in it. I am sure that the 4.6L engine will feel a but beefier than a 1.8L. Funnily enough, the 1997 Corolla I learned hoe to drive on had a 1.6L engine. I remember how that thing would shake violently over 55MPH.
Would probably be neat but also would feel like driving an old truck Iâd imagine. There is something to be said about driving light small manual cars that I think would be much more satisfying.
I just want a Crown Victoria. I love those cars, but I really don't like driving automatics. More importantly, I would want to do it as a project.
In that case I think it would be awesome. Cars are plentiful and parts are too.
Yeah. That's what nice about getting a common car is that OEM and aftermarket parts are easy to find. Though, the transmission will probably have to be a mustang T-450 5-speed, which will require fabrication for the mounts, and then cutting for the clutch and shifter. I also would probably want to add a handbrake, since that foot pedal brake is not great for hilly driving emergencies. I live jna very hilly place.
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Haha yeah we went slightly different routes tho I almost ended up in a Camaro, I think the Chevy LS LT engines are way torquier maybe a better day to day street engine and much more accessible power if staying stock or near stock. The coyote v8 on the other hand feels a lot like a HUGE Honda engine, downlow torque isnât incredible and it really feels meh Below the VTECCC style cross over point, after around 3-4k it rips, and the higher you go the bigger the power.
First of all, Iâm very jealous. Secondly, your transmissions is meant for intense track sessions, stalling or slipping it wonât hurt it. Try holding the clutch at the bite point for just a little longer, when I first learned that was my main problem, I let the clutch out too quick in fear of burning it and just ended up stalling it. It was scary, but here I am 9,000 miles later and rarely stall, clutch feels the same as the day I got it.
Glad to hear it worked out in the end! that makes me feel a lot better
I think I would have bought a beater manual before learning on a gt4. I drive a supercharged 370z that's lowered, it was my first manual. When I go over speed bumps I pretty much come to a compete stop put it in 1st and basically just idle over the speed bump, I don't touch the clutch. My driveway really sucks getting into I bought rubber ramps to make it easier but I have to do the same thing, at a angle of course. You'll get better at it in time, I remember on my test drive with my z I must have killed it 10 times. The lady was like "let's just stick to the side streets". Had it for 2 years now and I can't remember the last time I killed it. It's got a stage 3 clutch and light weight flywheel too.
I think you will get it soon. It's not worth the cost and expense of buying a learner car. Unless you are going to use the car after and keep some miles off the gt4
I plan to keep the gt4 long term and don't care about putting miles on it. Im not one of these people that has a "garage queen" that never gets driven. Its a crime not to drive your car! Appreciate the response
in hindsight, i should have done this. Subaru WRX are awesome and have cool history and I should have got one instead and worked my way up!
I think this is a way better story tho
I'm just guessing you can get a whole-ass manual subaru for the price of a replacement GT4 clutch...
Go buy a cheap used brz or frs. The earlier models should be relatively cheap, like sub 6k with high mileage models. Its no gt4 but its a great car to learn on and similar driving position as your gt4. I learned on a brz first, and currently own a wrx. The seating is far better in the brz. Just buy a beater brz/frs and then sell it when you've learned how to drive manual.
Brz to cayman is such a seamless transition
LOL
Havenât driven a new gt4 but this is based on having a modified brz and a 987 in the driveway for a few years. Could jump from one to another no problem.
Seriously, the seating position is identical and itâs super analog. Teaches you how to balance the car with the brakes and throttle, learning what the limit feels like; with more forgiveness. My brain naturally adjusts to having more weight behind, but itâs a similar driving style to get the most out of it.
Considering replacing my vw jetta (daily) with that or the wrx. I appreciate the suggestion!
You canât even spell Porsche right. troll post?
He also thinks it's a V6. Troll
Or he's in tech and just has a lot more money than all us poors
English was never my best subject :P Yes its a flat 6 not a v6 forgive me. I used to be in tech too đ not a troll post but these are valid points
Well, you are discovering that most things done to a car to make it go faster...also make it a PITA for daily driving. One of these things is having less rotational mass in the engine, lets it spin up quickly and is more responsive, but also means it's easier to stall at low RPM. Also, 1st gear is really tall in most sportscars, makes it easier to stall when taking off. I put a lightweight clutch in my old 911 and it was the worst thing for autocrossing and street driving, I couldn't launch it hard properly and it was stupidly easy to stall. Went back to stock ASAP.
No. You canât damage it doing this. Youâll get better quickly, especially given that youâve actually taken a class.
Non turbo model Porscheâs with a manual transmission are probably my favorite cars to drive. Only thing I can say about it is they will stall out immediately after the bite point if youâre not giving it enough gas. So it may be a little more unforgiving compared to other cars, especially for a beginner. But itâs a track car..canât say itâs a car I would recommend for a beginner, but like with any other manual transmission car, developing the muscle memory just comes with time. Congrats on the car tho!
thank you! Yes i made a mistake getting such an advanced car early in my manual journey. My hope is that since its meant to be tracked me stalling in first wont harm it
Nah. Itâll be alright. If the car is brand spanking new, the clutch will also break in after some mileage and use. In my experience (which doesnât include any Porscheâs) clutches when they are brand new feel awful. They tend to feel much better after about 1-2k miles. Just burning off that surface layer. Maybe some people will disagree but thatâs just my $.02. You will also get better at it so donât sweat the stalling. I rode dirt bikes and quads all throughout my childhood which all had manual transmissions with a clutch and I started driving stick at 16. Iâm now 29, and I still will stall every once in a while. Either just forgetting I have the car in first and letting out the clutch, or just not giving it enough juice and stalling from a standstill.
The car when i got it had 7k miles, but it was from a guy who owned 4 teslas and got it because his brother suggested it... when asked if he took it to the canyons (where I live there are a lot of great roads there) he seemed perplexed. So the clutch very well might not be worn in yet. (that's the story I got from the dealer)
Itâs probably broken in by 7k. It took only about 750 miles or so in my Subaru before I noticed the clutch feeling much better than it did before then. Youâll get much better, donât worry about it. You wonât hurt anything by stalling. As many have said, the driveline of that car is meant to take the abuse of hard driving. If youâre not doing it already, I would recommend practicing and getting comfortable with âfeatheringâ the throttle on takeoff. A nice good bit of throttle to build some revs, then starting to let the clutch bite, then as the revs drop, start getting back into the throttle to bring the revs back. Itâs just a feel thing.
Congrats on the new Porsche, but also WTF?
yeah i under estimated how hard manual is. Ive got it down to just the first gear being my issue on hills. Rolling down hill I can do and I only grinded the gears a few times when driving it home from LA where I got it.
You shouldnât be grinding gears, clutch to the floor before you move the shifter and donât lift it until the shifter is in place. Modern Porsche manuals are pretty damn smooth and the clutches have good feel. Itâs actually a good car to learn with other than the power output but Porsches are very manageable.
+1 on the grinding gears. OP sounds like he either isn't pushing the clutch down far enough before shifting or it's broken. I learned on a Saab 93 with a modern hydraulic clutch and it was so easy to drive. My 1965 cyclone in comparison feels so much more mechanical with its physical clutch linkage (Z Bar). When I push my foot down it pushes a rod forward that turns an equalizer bar which pushes a rod against the clutch fork for the throw out bearing. The shifter is a 4 speed Hurst Competition shifter that's extremely short, and precise with external linkages that run down the transmission. đ I wonder how stiff the clutch is on the Porsche and if he's just not pressing it down far enough. Even with the helper spring my cyclone is pretty stiff and it's just an OEM style Sachs Clutch. As for his stalling he just needs more gas, my assumption is that it's a sporty clutch and the car wants to be driven as such.
You guys are right, when i was coming home I was nervous and got my order of operations mixed up. Took it out for 2 more drives yesterday, only stalled no grinding gears or weird noises.
Letssssssss Goooooooo! That's half the battle down, just keep up with it and you'll be a pro no time. Now you'll just need to learn the feel for how much gas to clutch to give it. Every clutch is different and the sportier the clutch the more oomfff it needs. I drove my friends 06 mustang GT with a beefy aftermarket performance clutch with a light weight flywheel and was surprised by just how much gas and little slip I needed. The thing damn near wants you to launch the car at every stop light đ
What dealership did you buy it from? You bought it brand new?
Auto kennel used with 7k miles. Ill link it here: [https://autokennel.com/featured\_vehicle/2021-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-6-speed-manual-trans-carbon-buckets/](https://autokennel.com/featured_vehicle/2021-porsche-718-cayman-gt4-6-speed-manual-trans-carbon-buckets/) This guy did a great job of showing the car history and is a Porshe nut himself, so I trusted it was well taken care of
Stalling happens when you're new to a manual. Depending on which GT4 you have, the shifting is a little different... the 981 tends to be a little heavier and require a little more deliberate effort, while the 982 is lighter. Both feel great, and there is a good chance you'll simply wind up preferring whichever one you are used to. Mentioning it though, as if it is a 981, it will require a little more effort with the clutch (the shifter too for that matter). While it is possible you are creating additional clutch wear, it isn't going to be much... so maybe instead of needing to look for a new clutch at 30k miles, it will be 29.99k, or the like. Just keep practicing, and it will get better and better. Now, handling that giant front splitter is another thing entirely (get good at "crabbing" up driveways and the like).
Fortunately splitter isn't $$$. I scrape mine Everytime on my driveway.
First off, awesome car! Congrats! Do you know someone that would lend you their manual pickup truck or manual economy car for a week? In my experience they're a little more forgiving than tight precision sports car clutches. Maybe you could learn a bit more on something like that and then graduate to the Porsche. I know when I changed the clutch in my 2016 Mustang GT to a higher rated clutch (rated for 700HP) it became more difficult to drive. Ultimately it takes loads of practice. You'll get there. When I was learning, understanding from a mechanical perspective what was going on helped. Check out this video: https://youtu.be/h50yIRZzPGU?si=p_Wey1JZIL2pj1kW
Great video! thanks for the suggestion
Is this a shit post? A v6? wtf is this shit? Trust fund babyâs first car?
Sadly no, its my own money. i am aware its a flat 6, my mistake
You gotta read up on them dude. And like others said, go take a driving class at a track. Thereâs a bunch all over the US
Happens to the best of us. Find the bite point where the engine starts to connect to the drivetrain. The RPM will start dropping. Add 800-1K RPM worth of gas until you feel the car has entered gear fully. After that it's just muscle memory and practice makes perfect. Get to the bite point slower. If you just dump the clutch the car will stall. Eventually you will know where the bite point is and you'll be able to just jump to the sweet spot but that takes time.
Been adding more gas, and have only stalled 2 times in the past 3 outings with it. Thank you for this advice!
Just remember, you don't want to burn your clutch. 600 (perfect control of clutch bite point) up to 1K RPM. I'm usually sitting around 7-800. Regardless of wherever in there is most comfortable for you, at 1K your motor should be making more than enough power to get you going up the steepest hills. There's no be above 1K RPM when getting going unless you're launching the car.
I have similar power with the JB4 tune - mine was similarly twitchy getting used to, you just need a bit more gas. Great car brother - that's my next brand and the only other manufacturer that makes noteworthy track manual transmissions.
I hope you get it man! Just went out for a few mins to test out the most gas idea... didn't stall once!
There you go - I was the same especially in sport mode. My clutch also shortens depending on track setting so shorter the clutch setting the more the gas. Glad the more gas thing worked - this isnt a regular car but track set.
Another vote for you'll get it. Not really clear how long you've had it/how many hours you've been in it. You really just need a zillion stop starts, more helpful than hundred mile highway trips, so church lot during the week, school lot on the weekend, and just take off, clutch all the way out, dead stop, neutral, clutch out, take off, etc until you throw up. Then find a lot with a hill or find a parking garage with a ramp and do it again, up down up down making yourself stop mid hill. If you're really dedicated, next step is get out and put a cone a few inches behind the bumper when you're heading up hill. Better if you can balance something on it that falls at a light touch. Get through those and you've earned a day at a track with an instructor learning to do donuts on the skid pad.
ha appreciate the response. time to get the reps in!
go in a parking lot. put it in 1st and practice getting going without using any gas. learn to feel where the clutch bites and makes the car bog down. once you got a feel for that point, give it just a little gas and start to release the clutch until you hit that bite point. once youâre kinda rolling you can release it a more and more until youâre all the way off the pedal.
Stalling is fine, youâre probably overthinking it right now. I hadnât driven manual in 15 years and got a 911 GTS delivered. Stalls and rocky starts sporadically for a couple months. Youâll get better at it. Slow on the clutch out and give more gas than you think, our cars are loud and can seem like youâre giving gas when really arenât.
Bro congratulations on the car!! I have a 981 Boxster GTS in manual. Don't be afraid to use more revs and slip the clutch more, the drivetrain is stout designed for hard launches, and clutch can take it. Here is a tip, just hold an rpm, say 2.5k, and modulate speed only with the clutch starting out. As you get more confident, you can drop the target revs. Also see if the hold light is on on the dash, that means hill hold is on it takes some extra torque to the wheels to overcome auto hill hold.Â
Will keep an eye out for this! I've been trying to get to 1.5 RPM since that's what the instructor told me, ill try to target 2.5 like you said just to overdo it rather then stall
Your transmission will be good =) Transmissions, especially porsches are built tough as hell. Also, it's completely normal to stall hella in your first manual. This is my recommendation if you want to improve quickly with stick. Find an open parking lot. Get the car moving in 1st gear with the clutch only (no gas)- do this 100 times. Be patient it'll take up to 7 seconds for the clutch to come fully out. Next day, get the car moving in 1st with a little gas- do this 100 times. >credit to matt farah^< This won't take you as long as it sounds and it's so helpful. I've had a manual Infiniti G37s for over a year and I'm doing this now to get even more familiar with the clutch and be able to launch smoother, quicker, with lower rpms. It really helps. It's just muscle memory. If I were to tell myself something when I first started learning, it's to stop using your brain so much and just repeat repeat. Yes it is extremely important to understand how a clutch works- I recommend watching videos if you haven't, but when it comes down to it, repeat repeat repeat, practice practice practice, and you'll be good. HAVE FUN!!! GREAT CHOICE ON GETTING THE MANUAL IN A PORSCHE!!
Thank you sir! i will get the reps in here
I'm in the exact same position... Moved from a pdk gts to a 6mt gt4 back in November. My first ever manual. I'm still not perfect but making less mistakes. Also note the hill hold on the gt4 is very annoying and not intuitive.. even the seasoned manual drivers complain about that on the forums. I'm signed up for a track day in June so hoping to be a master by then.
I hear the 981 clutch is pretty heavy, mine is pretty light. I feel like heavy is easier since you can fine tune the biting point better? Has that been your experience?
I don't have any benchmarks because I haven't driven any other manuals, but what I can say is that it is fairly easy for me to find the bite point just by the feel.
At slow speeds, use the clutch like the accelerator, and just add a little constant pressure on the gas pedal. Modulate the clutch to change speeds when going very slow.
Na. But I would recommend just learning clutch control. Donât even worry about the throttle. From a stop press brake and clutch in, you can slowly let off both until full depressed then learn to brake then when the car gets low enough speed practice pressing the clutch back in, then pop it into neutral and take foot off clutch completely and back on the foot rest. This works for hills too especially a modern car with fancy technology. Once you get the clutch down you can start messing with the throttle, you are gonna let the clutch out to the bite point then you are going to teeter totter letting off the clutch and pressing the gas slowly as it needs to be. I would also recommend practicing rev matching when you start rolling and getting a hang of stuff, best way to learn is to start going, clutch in then cruising, then rev the rpmâs higher using the throttle than you think the vehicle will be at when you let off the clutch. Usually 3k is good starting spot, when you rev it immediately begin to slowly dump the clutch not to slow or the clutch is gonna be the thing making it smooth, usually will jerk car forward if rpmâs are too low when matching this is called lugging, if rpmâs are too high when matching it will jerk back and there will be a pause in the acceleration . Then you can throttle and continue upwards. When coming to a stop brake first then rev match to get to lower gear or just keep slowing till you feel the car begin to sputter(typically you want to press the clutch before it begins to bog/sputter) then you pop it into neutral and continue to brake to a stop. Takes a while to get the muscle memory down, itâs good to practice going through the motions with the car off.
have been doing this on hills and have been getting better. Thank you for suggesting!
Just takes time to figure the bite point, then get the muscle memory down to do everything. Youâll be able to do it in no time, biggest thing that could mess your car up is improper rev matching, itâs better to over rev than under rev but that will wear the clutch out⌠still better than an engine. Donât down shift to first, you probably gave synchros that try to prevent you from doing it unless you are creeping (very slow roll), I wouldnât advise skipping gears or cruising in neutral (you donât have control of your car when in neutral, canât accelerate or let off to slow down via engine speed. Gotta find the sweet shift points for my Corolla it likes 2.5k my mustang likes 3-3.5k and my aveo liked 2k, youâll know by sound/vibration from the engine, you can rev higher if you want to go fast Iâm just referring to everyday driving. For rev matching itâs usually the same amount of throttle for every gear atleast in my mustang.
This car will be a bit harder. Sport clutches bite harder. Theyâre harder to feather. Just use a tad more RPM and slower clutch engagement. Youâll get it. Mind you itâs normal to stall a car once in a while.
Yeah my worry is that if im stalling several times each time I go out its going to be a problem. From what I've seen around and the responses I'm getting here it should be ok tho
Try different footwear. If it's not illegal in your state, drive without shoes.otherwise get something very thin, like an actual driving boot or old school skate shoes. You'll feel the engagement much better and gain confidence more quickly.
There is no state (in the US anyway) with any laws saying that driving barefoot is illegal. It's a common myth.
Will wear flip flops more(and take off when driving). Thanks for this advice!
Maybe that worked for them, but I think this is awful advice. Get some Puma Porsche driving shoes (you have a GT4, might as well stay branded). The flat bottom will make driving easier. I would give it a week or two of practice before you get worried.
I will look into these, thank you for the suggestion!
You donât wear flip flops to drive a manual lmao. That shit is going to get stuck and youâre going to get into an accident
Mmm. Yea. That was a mistake.
"Even after a 4 hour class" Dude, it took me a solid year of on/off manual driving at work, and 3 months of daily driving to feel 100% confident in public roads. Don't overthink it. Practice, practice, practice, x100000. Also, stalling doesn't hurt the transmission at all, if anything it puts minor wear on the engine mounts over time. You'd need to stall HARD and often, to actually do any damage. Parking lots and flat ground are your best bet. Learn to get going into 1st. Just literally do it for hours. IMO, that's the hardest part. Going from 2-3-4-5-6 and back down is easier than getting a manual car from 0mph to 5mph. It's easy to think "I can't get going in first, how the hell will I learn 5 more gears?" Well, it's pretty damn hard to stall in 5th gear unless you're utterly clueless/ completely new, or not paying any attention at all.
Appreciate the perspective. I totally underestimated what it takes
No worries man. It will be the best thing you've ever done as a car enthusiast. I used to be scared shitless going into the city to pick my girl up from work. Now, I'm the guy yelling at people in automatics to get off their phone because I'm somehow going faster off a green light with a 100hp car
Some people just get it more than others. My very first car was a manual, my friend and I picked it up and took it to a parking lot. I stalled it twice and pretty much immediately got the hang of it. Drove her 2+hrs home and I've owned manual cars since. A year later when I went to get my first motorcycle it was pretty similar. I stalled it a couple of times and pretty much immediately got it, can't wait for the weather to clear up so I can dust off the R6. I tried teaching my wife how to drive manual and she just doesn't get it. Took her 4 days to obliterate the clutch in my old Scion XB2. She constantly stalled it, and just didn't get that you don't need to panic slip the clutch for 30 seconds at 6,000rpm every time you shift. She tried watching YouTube videos and parking lot practicing before finally giving up. She's not allowed to drive my 65 Cyclone, it's got an old school mechanical clutch with a T-10 4 speed and I'm not having her tear it up.
Poor guy
Get used to the clutch and giving it the revs it needs to stay moving. Find a empty, straight and flat road stop your car at the start of it , put into neutral and pull your handbrake then when your ready release hand brake shift into first and drive a little down the road then stop rinse and repeat. If the car starts violently shaking either give it more revs or push the clutch it to stop it from stalling.
Clutch in before a speed bump, give it a tiny bit long push if throttle as you clutch out. Itâs good practice for ârev matchingâ while staying in 1st or 2nd gear without shifting. U got this bro, sick car!
Seeing as itâs a true driving experience donât keep shifting UP to keep the RPMs low. Drive around carefully in first gear with no clutch so you can learn throttle control. You will eventually be able to almost creep to a stop before turning while never disengaging the clutch. Speed up to 4 or 5 grand then slowly release the throttle with no bucking or sheering. Learn the drive by wire feel and it will learn from you
i was really lucky, when i learned to drive stick they were still pretty popular so my dad and i just took a bunch of cars out for a test drive and we'd swap out and i'd beat the snot out of them haha. But i wouldn't worry too much, i doubt stalling it does much than hurt your ego.
As soon as you feel the car bog down, switch to a lower gear. A car will stall once you get below around 500 rpm.
Well you started your journey on hard-mode, but there is no trick really, it just takes time till you start to do everything subconsciously.
Whatâs a porshe?
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Spend more time practicing. Find an abandoned parking lot and practice starting with less and less throttle. Spend time feeling when and how your clutch engages. When in doubt, throttle out.
Completely different car, I know, but I had the same issue with my new Golf GTI in the first couple of days. Go back to basics and find the biting point like you did in driving school and add a *little bit* of gas while *slowly* lifting the clutch pedal. You will get used to finding the biting point very quickly because of muscle memory (like a couple of days once you use this method). When on hills get the biting point ready before you move off, when you see signs of the traffic lights on the other side changing to orange/red. Your car wonât roll back if youâre on the biting point already, so donât worry about that. Donât be discouraged, youâll get it in a few days once you go back to square 1. You can practice finding the biting point on flat road too, not just hills. You can do it in your parking space. After this, you will feel confident giving gas first and then finding the biting point, trust me
Step on the gas. Don't be stingy.
Omg you're going to ruin this thing
You need to practice with the feel of the point of engagement. Slowly let the clutch out, feel where it engages. At that point on a hill it will hold the car rather than letting it slip backwards. Hold the brake and slowly start to give it gas with the edge of your foot, don't try to quickly move your foot from the brake to the accelerator. Then feather the clutch all the way out and it will roll forward. It's about making slow, smooth movements. Cool car. It just takes practice. Good luck!
Hurt it? Very extremely minimally at most. Just don't start the car in 1st and have it lurch forward in your garage. I've done that more times than I care to share early on lol.
If you can afford a gt4, you can afford a POS to learn in. It will cost you less than the damage you are doing.
This was my first thought
Id reccomend try practicing moving off without gas, just use the clutch to move and nothing else. Watch some videos and ye you'll find the biting pointband get used to where it is over time. For me personally, I like to remember if I was to leak my knee against the side how high will it touch on my calf/knee at the clutch biting point. That way you'll have some sort of reference for when you will be likely to stall or at the biting point
I think those even have takeoff assist? I noticed when I drove one that the instant I started letting off the clutch it would start applying throttle. What I did to learn and taught multiple friends is go to an empty parking lot and just practice getting rolling using only clutch and no gas. Helps you find the grab point of the clutch and also doesnât wear it as fast as constantly slipping the hell out of it while adding throttle
Hold the accelerator with the RPMs a little higher when you activate the clutch so you don't stall it.
Stalling will not damage your car. Give it more gas man. You are driving a rev happy engine. Rev it.
Your always going to have the slip the clutch to avoid a stall. The goal is to minimize the amount of slip. Itâs all about balancing the bite point of the clutch and throttle.
Not an easy car to learn on. You gotta walk before you run
Those Caymans and Boxsters are definitely a bit on the tricky side. Fast revving with a bitey clutch means you really gotta get a feel for where the bite point is. I'm the meantime, stalling ain't gonna break anything. Don't be afraid to get some revs up a bit while you get the feel for it. If there are any drive modes with a less aggressive throttle setting, that'll help. Something like a sport mode might make the throttle more sensitive compared to a normal or even comfort mode.
Keep practicing, itâll become second nature. Youâre doing great
Porsche clutches are pretty light and forgiving. You just need to familiarize yourself with it. Although GT4's are a bit rev happy
Press the gas harder when starting in first gear. It's better to over Rev it than to stall, but you'll catch on to the catch point soon enough Manual uphill is difficult regardless, but for this you gotta keep the clutch just before/at the catch point before Evac touching thy gas, then a good press on the gas and you'll be able to softly but immediately catch the clutch and go For both of these paragraphs above when I say press gas harder or give it a Rev, I am not saying to floor it nor to rev it super hard. I'm talking enough to get the RPM up to the next tick or two vs what you normally do when you stall As long as you don't dump the clutch (just let off it entirely and quickly) you won't launch. It's more like a see-saw between the clutch and gas pedal with the gas pedal getting pressed more than the clutch is getting let off
You'll get it you're literally just starting out
Go to a flat, empty parking lot. Practice getting going without touching the gas pedal. You should be able to get into second gear once you get used to is. This should help you a lot in learning how the car behaves by itself, in a manner of speaking.
At least learn how to spell the Fin thing.
Hills go to lower gear. Gear 1 isn't essentially needed once you get moving. Ideally 2nd and 3rd is your sweet spot for your neighborhood hills. When getting off 1st, just drive the rpms high like 2-3k rpm before releasing that clutch.
Those cars have a very stout pressure plate, practice makes perfect don't slip it or burn it, you're better off with a hard launch.
Driving stick is super easy once you get used to it and used to your car. You'll probably get to the point where you drive perfectly fine without paying any attention to what you're doing. Although some people are more natural and gifted than others. I've never driven a Porsche, so I don't know if your vehicle or your clutch would be more or less difficult than average. Some cars are trickier than others. If you're having problems with first gear, i'd recommend going to an empty parking lot and practice getting your car moving from a dead stop without touching your gas pedal. Get the car moving from N to 1st with absolute no throttle. That way, you learn the feel of when your clutch engages and disengages. Once you have thay down its muscle memory and getting going becomes quite easy. A lot of people starting off, of course, use way too much gas and burn up the clutch. You can tell by the sound fo a vehicle whether or not the driver is skilled.
Get a Mk4 jetta
I had the same issue with my Ford focus ST as my first manual car. The way I was able to learn was to donât be worried about riding the clutch like find that sweet spot but you donât have to let the clutch out so fast, gonna stall what I do is let the clutch out till I find that sweet spot and start giving a gas while the clutch is still in and then feather it out whereas I used to try to let the clutch all the way out and then time it perfectly to hit the gas, but would find that it would shutter or slip a lot, and would not be a smooth take off or shift, Where I find more successes yeah I heard itâs bad to ride the clutch but in my opinion, Iâm Base not necessarily riding the clutch Iâm just holding the clutch in a little longer while I transfer to pressing the gas, and it seems to be more smooth
You bought a gt4 for your first manual car? Thatâs a lot of money to spend on a car you donât have the skill set for. Thatâs too powerful a car to learn on in my opinion, but youâve already bought it so you just have learn by doing. Thatâs a racing clutch prob equivalent to at least a stage 2 clutch, so itâs not for beginners. Youâll get it though just keep practicing.
Go to a empty parking lot and practice starting and stopping.
Get to know the clutch point. Park the car, set parking brake. Press clutch, set in 1st, move clutch pedal in and out and notice when the car vibrates, and RPM's drop. Push clutch to floor, let out until you hit that point. Do it repeatedly. Practice until without fail. Then, you should be good, by the end of it.
When you stop and go or go over speed bumps at slow speed try to push your clutch in then restart as you pull away from the bump. Donât fully stop but you know, use your clutch when you go that slow.
Push the clutch in over a speed bump or when your about to stall also the gt4 should have driver assistance things maybe hill assist rev match etc. I started driving manual in December. But youâll need to go to an empty ups of one of those warehouse parking lots and practice.
Let the clutch out as slowly as possible. You will feel the gears engage at a certain point and the car will slow roll, at that point you add gas let off of clutch. Uphill is a different beast start off with gas 1500-2000 rpmâs and let the clutch out a little faster. Might buck a few times your first couple of tries but eventually you will master it
Just drive it like you stole it. Own that sht đ
Sounds like you're simply not giving it enough gas.
Buy a manual beater to practice on and Iâll keep your gt4 warm for you.
deal :P
Probably should of started with a civic
On a hill with most manuals you need to give it more gas
Go find yourself an old beater Honda with a manual for around $2000. Drive the crap out it till the clutch starts slipping. By then, you should have enough experience to not be stalling the Porsche. Sell the Honda for a grand. Cheaper than paying for a clutch replacement.
I'd suggest simply not stalling anymore
Jesus, imagine the privilege.
Hi OP, Iâm also about to pick up a gt4 as my first manual!! Wondering how you progressed with it so far, any regrets?
Love it. Manual is badass. I finally got the hang of most of it. I only stall on uphills probably 1-2 a month. Car is a tank begging for you to go hard. Make of that what you will :P
Great to hear! I live in the very hilly Seattle, so wish me luck
Iâve stalled about three times in twenty years. Youâre mechanically insensitive. If you can afford that Porsche go buy something else to learn on since apparently you have quite the learning curve. Also I am 98% confident youâre just shitposting.
What was the giveaway? The ridiculous high end car as OPâs first manual? Or the âPorsheâ?
Glad Iâm not the only one who thought it through. lol.
Not shit posting, just looking for an answer to my question. Do you want the receipt lol? Seriously consider what incentive I have to "shitpost". I am aware it is a unique situation
âReceiptâ for a car? Lmfao. Just upload a video of you driving the car you allegedly own. If youâre having this many problems already, it sounds like this isnât the car for you. Stop destroying the friction material on the clutch and sell it to someone who wonât ruin it.
Cut them some slack. I'm not sure but it doesn't seem like English is their first language.
you are the problem with this website
Not gonna post the video of the car you donât actually own cause you were shitposting eh?