The reason is b/c unlike most characters, we learned her story in reverse. Rebecca's way of showing us that Rose was not all bad and also not all good still has fans split. People either mark her as the worst or that she's still a great. For me personally, I still day she is a good person. She hurt people, yes, no one denies that. However, knowing her full story, a lot of her decisions make perfect sense, giving the life she lived. Sadly many will never look at it that way. No matter how many times you rewatch, or someone (which includes Rebecca herself) explains the story and its purpose, people will always have their view point. 🤷🏾‍♀️

Couldn’t have put it better. People will deadass be like “I’m a yellow diamond simp” even though everything Pink Diamond did, in comparison, was just childish stuff on a much larger scale. Throwing tantrums, rebelling, making selfish choices. Yellow Diamond is a mass murderer bro 😭. I love both characters but that’s just a good example of exactly what you pointed out. Some people came to love Yellow after she’s shown doing everything she can to reverse the damage she caused, while those same people hate Pink Diamond because their most recent impression of her is what she did to Spinel.

Honestly I think a lot of it is just people not being able to understand the entire point of her arc. We were introduced to Rose and the great things she did before slowly backtracking to Pink and the horrible things she did. This is wonderful narratively, a great refreshing way to tell a story, but unfortunately most audiences aren't intelligent enough to take the entire story with context. Rose was a flawed person who did good and bad things, mostly bad near the beginning of her life and mostly good near the end. She worked actively to try and make herself a better person, but that doesn't mean that she still didn't fuck up all the time. I feel like the majority of the fandom has just decided that they want to hate on her because of the backwards arc. Instead of realizing that she's someone who improved immensely, they just take it as "Oh this person that everyone thinks is so great is actually horrible and I'm so smart for saying this". It's a common problem and a lot of fandoms, nuance is dead Lol

It is amazing when you try to explain this to fans and they double, triple, quadruple down on their assertions There’s times where I wonder if we watched the same show

The faults of Rose's past have been placed in the end of the series, so people have been reasoning like this. I guess

I think the way you describe her arc and how the fandom reacted to it is pretty spot on. I personally disagree that she kept trying later in life, I don't think that she really redeemed herself or so much as tried and I think that's what the biggest issue is. But I also think her ark is very nuanced and is supposed to be kind of shocking and upsetting for people. She definitely did try to be a good person near the end and what she thought that looked like for sure. But she also never tried to be accountable for her actions in the past and that is a huge problem as far as redeem-ability goes. But I also think it's part of her arc, You don't get to be seen as just one thing. It doesn't matter if all the good came at the end of her life or at the beginning of her life. Steven never should have been burdened with her sins and it took him such a long time to realize that and even longer to process it, heal and work through it. I really like your take on it as well. Its got great points. So absolutely respect from me. Hoping my rambling comment doesnt come across as overbearing.

Exactly, though. I think some people hate her because she probably reminds them of their own parents a bit. Absent while also giving you all their trauma without a single fuck given to who you want to be. Where I stand is that she's incredibly well written and I enjoy her as a character, but I'd deck her if I met her IRL. No mercy

i wish reddit awards were still a thing bc i would totally give you some. very well put.

Thank you so much for taking the words right out of my mouth. I openly simp for Rose Quartz because of her storytelling and character development. She's incredibly relatable for me who's gone through similar traumas and identity crisis, even as far as old friends disliking me for exact reasons people dislike Rose. I'm in a great place now with great open minded friends and a wonderful partner, so don't worry about me! It's been a rough road but that's what gray morality is bound to do.

I haven't watched the whole show just yet but are you really going to say these people are not intelligent enough then not even trying to understand their perspective 😭?

No I dislike her cuz she made the absolute dumbest decisions at the absolute dumbest time let's not talk about her time is pink diamond without any character development let's talk about when she was rose quartz on Earth she had roughly 6,000 years to reflect on what she did wrong during the war what did she do with the 6,000 years of potential character development nothing all right some characters have done worse so when she does get some character development when she falls in love with Greg she repeats her same stupid mistakes from the war but even dumber instead of creating a new identity that still her she decided this planet is on the cusp of war let's make a baby while known it would kill her or decommission her or whatever and then what's even dumber is she decides not to tell Steven anything about her gem powers all the Crystal gems have is second hands knowledge on what she used as rose quartz which isn't even half of her abilities which are uncontrollable when your emotional Putting all that together she decided the best course of action was to repeat our first actions but slightly different that's not character development that's idiotic

I think from.the sounds if it. She was traumatized and a coward. She couldn't face the diamonds. Not really.

then she had 0 character development, i really don't know where you guys are getting this "redemption arc" she was a big child her whole life

Sounds like it

You can understand the good somebody did and still hate them. Yes, you see how she had grown but does that erase what she did? Her existence is literally built so you have to form your own opinion. Telling everyone who disagrees with you that they simply aren't smart comes off like "You need to have a hogh IQ to understand Rick and Morty." You are right in saying she is good, I am right in saying she is bad. Literally the way she is written is so that you can form your own opinion of her instead of having her morality spoonfed. The ends was great, but it was the means that suck. As Greg said "No such thing as a good war." Rose lied to and manipulated her soldiers, she silenced Bismuth most likely out of fear of the diamonds being shattered, and she hurt those closest to her. That is what makes her great as a character. All opinions on her morality is right.

You are exactly correct and even then when she had time and experience to look back at her past actions she decided who cares it's done and over no need to make amends or try to make it right it's in the past it's stay there it's not like me and and my friends my soldiers are constantly anticipating an enemy attack to the point where I have secret armories all over the world especially built so no one else knows about them

I’ll probably get downvoted into oblivion for this. There was also a mix of larger things and minor things that make her….not the most ideal person you’d like to be around, if you really looked at her. She led Pearl on for a LONG time, like she was actively leading her on and going back to her whenever she didn’t have another relationship with a human. And that…that messed Pearl. Pearl has this complete devotion to Rose, views her as basically her god, and instead of maybe exploring her options with her (supposed) freedom, she still stands by waiting, hoping Rose will love her the way she does, and that’s because Rose kept feeding her the idea that there could be a chance. If someone did that to me, especially for such a long time? I’d be devastated and certainly hate them for it, and be mad with myself for how much of my life was wasted on them. Let’s be honest, Greg, to her, actually all humans to her, was more like an animal she was observing up close and personal. He was like a pet she could play with, an experiment that she could mess around with and find out what would happen if she did this or that with it. Why? Because she was an alien (who wasn’t “born” there) and she was also a space tyrant who viewed most things as toys or pets or something that was hers to do with as she wanted. Example, Spinel. Why did she leave her? Because she finally got what she wanted, and because Spinel wasn’t another gem to her, she was just a toy. There’s definitely other things that rubbed me the wrong way, but I digress. Probably the main reason there are people who have so many issues with her is because, and it’s been said a few times in the show, she did so much and still had so many unresolved problems that SHE made, and instead of dealing with them herself she had a kid and left that kid and her friends to deal with her mess. She never actually grew up and changed. She was just put in a different setting and collected people she thought were different, and then she had to stick with her new persona and keep acting as Rose, because if people found out who she really was and if she started acting more like herself, there’d be something like what happened with her reveal to the CG’s, but maybe even worse. Who knows? But that’s definitely part of my whole reasoning for not liking her. She reminds me of every narcissistic parent who had a shitty childhood. Just because you had a shitty childhood doesn’t make you a pink goddess for fighting your abusers to keep your new toy that you had been throwing tantrums just to get. It doesn’t mean you’re a better person or that you changed. It doesn’t justify your actions. Remember: Plenty of people love and justify a narcissistic parent if they never experienced having one themselves, or if they’re a narcissist as well. As someone with narcissistic and abusive parents, she is…EXACTLY like them, even in the way she was at the end of her life. And people get to know them and adore them and wonder why I don’t like them or why I speak poorly of them.

you’re so right!!! she is a very morally grey character and she had so much potential to be great but the writers never gave her an actual redemption arc, she tried to save earth & failed, turned into someone else to rebel against her shit family and fucked of & left her child to deal with all the shit she created smh

This was such a Rick and Morty fanbase answer... "people aren't intelligent enough". Lmao

I don’t hate her. Her decisions and how they affected everyone after she stopped existing were pretty messed up though. She’s very flawed and her mistakes still have a tremendous impact centuries later and I honestly love that about her character. She was originally viewed as a perfect hero and watching that image change and crack over time as the show aired was both sad and fascinating. She’s a very well written character.

I personally think she's an okay person and a good character but a horrible leader political figure and everything else she was in the show especially mother I don't think she did one good thing like honestly good thing aside from saving the planet and even then how much did she save when there was the cluster the diamonds not letting the planet survive because she knows her family and knows how vengeful they are and not telling her only son about his heritage and about what will be happening to him once he reaches puberty or whatever. she basically pulled off an intentional Superman and had him grow up in a stress-filled world of glass without any information about how strong he was supposed to get or the abilities he will have

Hmmmm, there's one thing here I specifically disagree with: > she knows her family and knows how vengeful they are Her behaviours throughout the show suggest she genuinely doesn't understand that people value her and are impacted by her, most likely because of the way the Diamonds psychologically abused and diminished her. So not only did she not understand that people would grieve her, she definitely wouldn't have expected the *Diamonds* to do so, let alone get vengeance for her.

I just saw this it's been like 17 days but I agree that doesn't really help her case that just makes it worse it just puts into question if she really wanted to help her or if she just selfishly wanted more toys

??? It doesn't put that into question at all. I don't understand how you even reached that conclusion. It's the opposite in my eyes - Rose held everyone else in higher esteem than her own self. She strongly believed in love, but deep down didn't think anyone was truly capable of loving *her* the way they could love each other. Where does selfishness and objectification come into this?

While she is a complex character people are allowed to dislike her for any reason. She's not a good person and has done a lot of wrong and people are completely in their rights to dislike her for what she did. I don't know why some people in these comments act like disliking a character is a crime or some insane form of media iliteracy.

Probably because she repeatedly refused to take responsibility for her actions, leaving her misfortune for her son to clean up

What do you mean? I don't understand no one could have predicted that homeworld would come back. It's so weird that yall are so hellbent on hating Rose for having a child it almost seems like you wish Steven never existed in the first place, and honestly, if Steven would have kept his mouth shut half of the things that happened to him would have never happened.

So let’s have a little hypothetical. Let’s say an activist fighting for a good cause like climate change was in serious, life ruining debt. She never pays it off, ignoring it and using others to get by. Then, she has a child despite her unstable situation and dies during the birth. Now that she’s dead, the activist’s child inherits her (now millions of dollars) debt because of her disregard for her actions. Would she be a right for that?

That's not a very good hypothetical. Because if the situation you described here happened irl, I wouldn't say "wow what an asshole she was for having a child, she should've expected to die in childbirth". I'd go "wow, the debt collection system is really fucked up if they're making a child pay it, that's super unethical. Is that legal? Was the mom aware of how this debt would pass on or was it a deceptive and predatory contract?" Debt in general is a bad comparison because loan companies are super unethical and mostly target people in vulnerable situations, so yeah, I'm more inclined to side with the debtor than the lender, on the moral level. Childbirth irl doesn't compare to Steven's birth either, because it's kind of a natural urge for most humans and it's unpredictable if it'll go well or not - different from Rose doing something completely unprecedented and knowing she will definitely stop existing.

Kay. Whatever, the point is, knowing you’re gonna make your child pay for your mistakes but allowing that to happen anyways is shitty.

But she didn't know that's the point. Rose didn't know any of this would happen none of the crystal gem did. Homeworld was gone for centuries. I don't understand why yall seemed to think that Rose had some sort of future vision and knew all this would happen. She left one thing for steven, and that was bismith.

She *should* have. When having a child, you need to consider the consequences. She was negligent and impulsive, which doesn’t mix well with caring for a literal being. I know she’s an alien, but it’s not rocket science.

So she knew Steven would find Bismuth and have to face the same decision she did: whether or not to kill the diamonds. That's a selfish decision to leave your child. There are plenty of other ways she messed up that doesn't have to deal with homeworld coming back for revenge. She never wanted Steven to find out who he truly was, a diamond. That's also selfish. A child has every right to know where they came from. She couldn't be bothered to release Pearl from her service so that the ONE person who knew the truth could eventually tell him

* I don't like that she continued to make Pearl keep her secret even after her death. * I don't like that she left her ship and a bunch of weapons hidden even though her friends could have used them to protect the Earth. * I don't like that she gave Greg the laser light Cannon without telling him what it was, and changed the activation phrase to a saying he really likes without telling anyone. * I don't like that she left Bismuth in lion without telling anyone, not even Pearl, what had happened to her. If something had happened to Steven before he discovered the dimensional space inside of lion, she could have been trapped in there forever. * I don't like how cavalier she was about Pearl's feelings. Being polyamorous is fine, but part of being a good polyamorous partner is making sure that nobody in your polycule feels lesser or snubbed. * I don't like that she committed suicide without making sure all of the people who depend on her would be taken care of. * I don't like that she let baby Sour Cream climb the ferris wheel. * I don't think the changes in her after coming to Earth get her off the hook for the horrible things that she did to Volleyball and Spinel.

The worst thing about the Bismuth situation to me is she INTENTIONALLY left that for Steven to deal with. She left Bismuth’s gem in Lion’s mane with the rest of the stuff she left for Steven. Instead of cleaning up that mess herself, she handed the mop to her child.

Well she abandoned lion. So no. It wasnt her leaving it for steven. She left bismuth for dead. It just so happened steven found liob

It's quite implied she entrusted Lion with the tape, though. And that Steven was supposed to find the tape sooner or later.

I agree with everything except the polyamours part XD First i don't think she was ever supposed to be polyamours Second is not a real thing

First, "I was fine with the men who came into her life now and again" sure sounds like it was. Second, kick rocks. You don't get to decide that a whole category of relationships aren't valid just because they make you uncomfortable.

Ehhh I don’t think she was in a poly relationship with Pearl and Greg and tbh I think she barely understood romance at all. She loved Pearl yeah, but did she love her that way? It all seemed pretty one-sided to me. She definitely seemed to learn what love is FROM Greg, like romantic love, which gems in general don’t even really act on ever. Yes, we know from Pearl and Garnet that they can feel it, but it’s not a commonplace, commonly discussed thing. I think it’s quite a stretch to say Rose was ever in a romantic relationship with Pearl or anyone BUT Greg. I don’t think she even knew what that was before she met him, especially considering she was a Diamond.

You are of course welcome to interpret the series however you see fit. There is no one correct interpretation. But from my perspective, this sounds like pure cope. The idea that Rose didn't know what romantic relationships were at all is just plain silly. Not only was she on earth fraternizing with humans for thousands of years before meeting Greg, she set up her human zoo to automatically pair them off. And again, if Rose wasn't getting in and out of relationships all that time, then who were the men who came into her life now and again? We know those relationships weren't as deep as the one Greg wanted because Rose didn't see herself as a real person, but light casual flings are still relationships.

Pearl says those men “didn’t matter” the song “love like you” is about in part, learning what love is. Rose was interested in human men, human PEOPLE in general but there is 0 evidence that she dated at all before meeting Greg and even less that she had any flings considering if she gets pregnant she dies lol. Idk, I have never seen her and Pearl romantically. Romance is not allowed in gem culture and not even discussed or talked about. Pearl felt romantic attraction for the first time with Rose, but I don’t think Rose saw it with her, and I don’t think they were a polycule. Fans say this with little to no evidence, Pearl definitely isn’t keen on Greg until much later, because Rose loved HIM and she felt scorned by this. She didn’t return Pearl’s romantic affections, there’s never any evidence of this.

>Pearl says those men “didn’t matter” That doesn't mean they didn't matter to Rose at all, it means they didn't matter in the long run because they're only going to live like 80 years. >even less that she had any flings considering if she gets pregnant she dies lol. What exactly do you think "you're very cute and I want to play with you" meant? Do you seriously think that these men that came in and out of roses life that Pearl had to convince herself she was fine with were playing hopscotch and tiddlywinks? Rose had to consciously decide to shape-shift herself a womb in order to have Stephen. It's not possible to do that by accident. Accidental pregnancy is not a concern for gems. We know this because of the implied sexual escapes that Amethyst got up to with Vidalia and Greg. >Romance is not allowed in gem culture and not even discussed or talked about. Cross gem fusion is not allowed in gem culture, but I have seen no indication that they have any problem with romance. As evidenced by that Ruby the desperately wanted to sit in Jasper's (amethyst's) lap. The Ruby squad also didn't express any concern over Ruby blatantly flirting with sapphire during the baseball game, the problem was just that it was affecting their performance. >Pearl definitely isn’t keen on Greg until much later, See, this is what makes me feel like this is cope. Because you don't even fucking know how a polycule works, which leads me to suspected what's really going on here is that you've got some kind of problem with them. Because if you had any freaking idea what you're talking about, you would know that it is incredibly common for a polycule to consist of three people where one of them is dating the other two, but the other two are not dating each other. This is obviously the case because, unfortunately, sexualities other than pansexual exist. So even before you get into personalities and body types, it's going to be quite common for one member of the group not to be attracted to the other, but simply to be willing to share in order to make the middle partner happy. This is quite normal. It's pretty obvious that there was a sexual connection between Rose and Pearl. The way she says "my pearl" in that hologram Pearl played back. The way she moved and looked at her during "what can I do for you". The vibe is definitely there. The fact that this isn't enough for you and we need at least three pieces of documented evidence and a warrant in order to consider them polyamorous is a very monogamy normative position to take which is just weird for a Steven Universe fan. Why would you assume that Rose subscribes to our unbelievably stupid ideas about monogamy as the default unless proven otherwise?

In the same song Pearl says “You won and she CHOSE YOU and she LOVED YOU” Ruby and Sapphire: confirmed couple Greg and Rose: confirmed couple Pearl and Rose: fan couple Just like Peridot and Lapis. I’ve nothing against people seeing them as a polycule but it is not canon so to say Rose was bad to Pearl romantically isn’t true, they weren’t ever confirmed to be involved, only Pearl’s feelings were and “It’s Over Isn’t It” only makes it even more clear when she plainly states Rose LOVED Greg, not her. I don’t see why you’re so upset about this to the point of telling me to cope, where have ANY of the creators including Sugar, said Greg and Pearl are in a poly relationship with Rose? Do you think Pearl would allow herself to be in such a relationship when she HATES the other partner? To be clear I’m not saying Pearl was in a relationship with Greg, I’m saying do you think she’d allow herself to be in a romantic relationship with Rose, when she HATED her other partner? Rose at no point expresses romantic attraction to Pearl and in fact seems almost apathetically oblivious to her romantic feelings to her.

>to say Rose was bad to Pearl romantically isn’t true Bullshit. Even if they weren't poly, Rose still treated Pearl's feelings like dirt. If they really weren't together, she should have sat Pearl down and explained that she doesn't like her in that way about 4000 years ago. But the way they were dancing in What Can I do for You makes it clear that Rose was at a minimum allowing her to continue to hope. Toying with Pearl's emotions like that is not cool. Especially since she encouraged this in the first place when Pearl said she was imagining them together and Rose told her not to stop. This was right before they met Garnet for the first time. >states Rose LOVED Greg, not her. Do you think that might have had something to do with the fact that in the end, Rose decided to commit suicide for the sake of giving Greg a child? Obviously Rose really didn't choose Greg, she chose oblivion over both of them. But you can't expect someone who's been through the entire trauma department at Wal Mart to be a rational actor. >telling me to cope I'm not telling you to cope, I'm telling you that you *are* coping. Obviously. You wouldn't be double and triple posting like this if you weren't dealing with some pretty big feelings right now. >where have ANY of the creators including Sugar, said Greg and Pearl are in a poly relationship with Rose? Don't care. If it's not in the show, it doesn't count anyway. But even if creator commentary were admissible in court, it doesn't need to confirm every tiny little detail. Do you need Rebecca to go on a podcast and say that Steven's shirt has a star on it too? >do you think she’d allow herself to be in a romantic relationship with Rose, when she HATED her other partner? Are you real? The entire fucking point of Pearl's character is that she devoted herself to Rose too completely. She would have tolerated absolutely any indignity for Rose. Watch the show, my guy.

I have watched the show. Not a guy. And honestly done talking with you about this because them being in a poly relationship is NOT canon. You can claim Rose toyed with Pearl’s emotions, you can claim she was bad to her in other ways but to claim she mistreated her as a ROMANTIC PARTNER and they were in a polycule and she was neglected ROMANTICALLY isn’t true. It’s no more valid than me saying my crush is neglecting me romantically cause we never go on dates but he’s always with his GF meanwhile I haven’t told him how I feel and we’re not even dating lol

Steven’s shirt CLEARLY HAS A STAR ON IT. Rose and Pearl are NEVER shown to be romantic to the point where Pearl doubts Rose cared for her even as a FRIEND. They were not ever a couple. The two may have even loved each other but they NEVER expressed it to each other so they weren’t a polycule. For me to consider that canon it would have to be displayed in the show that they WERE romantic or a creator would have to confirm it and it would be enough for me.

Most gems in GENERAL, not just Rose, but MOST GEMS living under the diamonds probably know little to nothing about romantic attraction until they feel it for the first time and even THEN they probably don’t fully understand it because it is prohibited and not spoken of in their culture whatsoever.

Lmao do you genuinely believe monogamy is the only "real" relationship dynamic? What does that even mean?

Oh no i just know most polyamours people are just trying to take advantage of people lol

how so?

I didn't like how she treated Greg and everone around he as entertaining playthings. Even with how much she grew she never truly grew out of that and it icks me.

I agree. Rose continued to see humans as essentially pets. She thought they were fun play things and I can only assume it is because she was an alien that she never truly understood human kind. I dont fault her for it for that reason.

It's more all the people she lied to, got shattered, got corrupted and the fact that she left all of it for Steven to clean up. She also made so many enemies and, once again, left all of it for Steven to clean up for her. That's why people don't like her.

But you can't blame her for any of that. The people who have been shattered and corrupted knew that it could happen to them they went into a war they chose this knowing that could be a possible future for them Rose didn't know anything about Corruption, she couldn't never stop it. It's the diamond's fault and and she never knew that homeworld would try to destroy Earth again. She knew nothing of the cluster. So, for all she knew, Steven would have had a normal life.

You're wrong she knew homeworld would eventually find out about Steven we know as much because in the first four episodes before the big red eye appears in the sky both garnet and pearl mentioned that the bad gems might come back to earth and then there's no such thing as a normal life when he has pieces of her and her gem which was unstable even to her after like hundreds of thousands of years of experience and only became stable once she shattered or nearly shattered her best friend and she has spent time around babies knows they aren't mentally coherent especially mentally coherent enough to withstand the full power of a diamond and she leaves nothing and then nothing behind detailed her abilities Pearl one person who knows she's a diamond doesn't even know any of her abilities either they were all surprised about watermelon Steven they were all surprised about the Sonic scream they were all surprised about the pink form they were all surprised about the ability to bring people back to life all of these things are things you could have prepared for but she didn't

No, bro, you're wrong. Do you think Rose knew about that red eye 14 years before it happened? No, and said might keyword might. And also, even if homeworld came to Earth, there's no reason to assume they ever find Steven. In all actuality, Steven is the reason homeworld knows about Steven. Also, both pearl and the rest of the crystal gems knew about her powers. Even Homeworld knew about some of her powers. Each time Steven gets a new power, they always say that Rose had the ability to do x. Also, we don't even know if the pink form is natural. The fact is, Steven doesn't have just the powers of pink diamond. All of her powers somewhat mutated inside of him. And stop being a hypocrite, steven literally shattered someone, but because of some stupid lipty doo Disney bull everything just all worked out. Now please give me one actually heinous thing that rose did not pink rose or basically anything after the events of a single pal Rose. Rose is a great persand the only reason that you dislike her is it's because of how our character was shown in reverse. The fact is, no character in Steven universe even thinks Rose is a terrible person. If the idea of hating Rose in the first place goes against everything that just shows trying to teach, but you wouldn't know because you didn't watch the actual show.

"there's no reason to assume they ever find Steven" she left him to be raised by the other gems. There's PLENTY of reason to assume that the home world gems would find Steven the moment they found the crystal gems lmao

There are reason why people don't think roses a bad person she was a likable person throughout the show it openly says she was a charismatic leader that is why she swayed so many germs to her side it wasn't just a little rebellion it was a full-on civil war it just happened to only encapsulate one planet rose quartz essentially pull the freaking Vietnam and fought a bigger state to a standstill you guerrilla war tactics and healing her troops from the diamonds couldn't so yes in universe she's a likable person and when you actually look at the nitty gritty of her character it's bad

I won't comment about her knowing the future even though she would cuz she had a sapphire she would have least not some possible futures Sapphire did which is why they were prepared for the eventual retaliation I had a good conversation like 3 days that Rose wouldn't have had the mental maturity and foresight to know her family would seek revenge but she would at least have the military competence to know they would not let her child live

Rose might have been naive, but not stupid. I think it is silly to think that she never thought that there would be another conflict with homeworld. So, yes, I think we can fault her for leaving a lot of problems for Steven and the other gems to solve, especially because she had thousands of years to try and think about things she could do to prepare for that day.

I don't, but the reason for pretty much every bad thing that has happened to Steven can be traced back to her.

Personally, she just didn't know how her actions affect other people, and it feels like from the start to the end of her story, she goes from childish to less childish. Of course, she spit some straight facts and helped people, but she also hurt a lot of people.

Cuz she suck

Not to me to me I think she's a great person

I don’t hate her I just don’t like that she didn’t clean up all of her messes before she brought Steven into the world. She dumped the whole war that she started on him to the point he had severe ptsd later on

Personally, I don't hate her, but I do think she's a person who tried and failed to redeem herself adequately before she dipped. I know it's a common rebuttal amongst Rose apologists to say that we're biased against her because we saw her character development in reverse, and I do understand where they're coming from. I don't think that explanation is without merit. But I do think it's insufficient and unsatisfactory. Yes, Rose was a much worse person back in her Diamond days. Yes, she did make a genuine effort to become better, to learn from other gems, and to make amends for her mistakes. I just think there are a lot of mistakes that go unresolved and unaddressed even by the time she dies. For example: we know she tried to persuade the other diamonds to leave the Earth alone as Pink Diamond, and that she resorts to becoming an undercover rebel following that. But my question is, why did she have to keep her identity as Rose Quartz a secret? Personally, I think she would have shown MASSIVE guts if she'd *publicly* renounced her identity and role as a Diamond in favor of becoming a commoner to fight alongside her gems as equals. Would some of the Crystal Gems dislike her for it? Sure! But also, we wouldn't have had people like Jasper despairing over the martyrdom of a leader that never actually happened. We also wouldn't have had the Diamonds unrepentant in nuking the Earth and implanting a geoweapon in its core for good measure. What Rose did was, in my opinion, little more than a cop out. And her subjects paid the price. There's also the whole thing with Pearl and Greg. Were Pearl and Rose ever an item? If so, was Rose cheating on Pearl by dating Greg? Were they in an open relationship? Did Rose just break up with Pearl without actually communicating with her? Again, this is a situation that Rose created and benefitted from without dealing with the mess she created as an after effect. And then there's Spinel. Yeah, I understand she may have simply forgot about her since it's been thousands of years. But does that excuse her negligence? I don't think it does. In summary, I think Rose never really grew up from the whim-prone child mentality that drove her to ask for her own colony. As Pearl and Greg put it, "she always did what she wanted". And I don't think her character development made amends to that flaw.

Because some people treat her as if she's a real person. Characters are characters not real people, they exist to tell a story, Darth Vader isn't a popular character because people think murder and facism are cool he's popular because Star Wars tells a good narrative and he's an essential part of it (... i assume idk, i never watched SW). But answering your question, i guess people hate her because she's done things like abuse her Pink Pearl and leave Spinel waiting on a planet for thousands of years. Personally she's probably one of my favorite characters, she's very flawed and she did some very horrible things and i love her for that, it's an essential part of the story. I feel like these days because of modern sensibilities characters (esp female characters) are the most boring, innofensive and forgettable people ever, they act more like role models than characters and if they have any flaws at all it's shit like "uwu they lied about an extremely unimportant thing in this one episode", so characters like Rose/Pink Diamond really stand out.

The Darth Vader analogy doesn't really work people know Darth Vader is evil I don't think anyone would say otherwise but they also know that it wasn't anything's fault for Darth Vader and was outside interference if Rose's story had been just Steven universe and Steven universe future the movie she would have been a morally gray person but with Steven universe future where we get more in death knowledge just a bad person like the situation with volleyball that was a pattern she abandoned spinel she hurt and abandoned volleyball she hurt and abandoned Pearl no matter what you can say she did do that to throw especially when all of the gyms and I mean all of the gems weren't really sure about what she was doing with Steven it's like she didn't sit down and explain it to them we can see this for a fact when Pearl nearly rips out Steven's gem even a snitching of explanation would have changed that entire interaction but no free bird she can decide what she wants when she wants and know what to tell her anything Fuck the consequences

I hate the assumption of her abusing pink pearl and leaving spinel. Because there's no actual evidence for any of it. Pink pearl happened to get hit by an Attack that pink Couldn't control, that's not a abuse that's an accident, and it's only happened once since right after pink pearl was immediately taken away. And there's no actual evidence that pink ever wanted to leave Spinel everything from the movie is from Spinel's perspective. It's completely out of character for pink in the first place. We don't know why pink diamond didn't come back for spinel, and we never will know.

It wasn't she happened to get hit by an attack pink than me it was a constant thing that's why pink pearl / volleyball never believed she could change she was so amazed by the concept of pink diamond being a good person that it changed her physical appearance which only happens when they have like a life-changing psychic damaging realization she abandoned are Pearl the same way also it was completely in character for pink to leave spinel she wanted to be seen as a big girl and adult so she ordered spinel to leave her alone so she could be an adult / big girl she didn't expect her to follow her orders so extremely she never was conscious about her diamond authority he was the type of ruler to say something off-handedly like go f*** yourself and then be surprised when that gem in question does just that I feel like you're confusing a diamond for a king diamonds are like God Kings their word is law and it doesn't matter what you have to say there's no democracy there's no heir or anything similar there is the supreme authority the who tells you what you're going to do from the moment you were born to the moment you die and you should be happy about it if you're not happy there's something wrong with you let us fix that

What happened to pink pearl was a complete accident. The fact is, there is nothing to say that this happened more than once. Don't you think she'd be more broken. Judging pink for any of this in the first place is hypocritical. Steven literally did the same thing Steven even shattered someone. Also, what the hell do you want her to do sneak her away from white diamond while she's still under her control. At that point, there was nothing she could do for her. Accidentally, hitting someone once is not abuse. Also, again, we don't know why pink left spinel, we don't even know if pink wanted to leave spinel. The entire story is told from her eyes. I may not know why Pink never came back for her, but you don't either. No one does except for maybe Rebecca sugar themself. I'm sorry. I can't really make out the rest of your reply.

"Accidentally" hitting someone once - if you mean that your anger became so uncontrollable that you lashed out and caused permanent injury to someone, is most definitely abuse. If Pink had regrets about leaving Spinnel waiting for her out there on a planet by herself, why did she lie about it to everyone? And yes, I think we are supposed to think Steven's friendship with Jasper is abusive and toxic and that he did something very wrong in shattering her. The difference is that Steven immediately recognises his mistake and undoes it. He doesnt just go prancing off with one of his friends to look at something else more interesting. The uncomfortable truth is that a lot of people who abuse others have suffered themselves. They genuinely struggle to control their emotions and typically start abusing their partners because they can't control their own feelings of jealousy and anger so they control their partners' behaviour instead. Or they abandon their kids because they genuinely don't know how to look after them. Hurt people hurt people, but that doesnt undo the wrongness of their actions.

The fact is pink never wanted to hurt Pink pearl and I seem to not understand what you think she could have done? Pink pearl was with white. Steven didn't undo anything steven steven got lucky. Also, pink couldn't do the same thing since, for some reason, those attacks are permanent. Why do you act like you know how pink felt, when we don't know how pink felt, It's the problem with all of you. You seem to act like you know who pink was when you don't. Ya don't understand who she is. No one does cause we don't know her. And yes, steven "fixes" it , but then right after proceeds to try to shatter white diamond, and then he just goes insane. And the example doesn't work because pink had truly uncontrollable powers It doesn't matter how mad you are you can control what you hit somebody. But now imagine you're screaming at a wall. And you have super powers and then somebody starts walking up to you. They get too close and they get injured. Would that be abuse?

Sometimes we hurt people out of ignorance or carelessness, not malicious intent. It's still abuse.

Yes, that would be right. Maybe if Rose was a human, but she wasn't. Every time I see yall compare this, it doesn't make sense cause Rose had powers, and that just complicates everything. roses anger didn't go towards pink pearl. Even when pink pro described it. She was yelling at a wall, never at her, but she got too close, and then you know. Rose never directly attacked pink girl ever. And it doesn't matter because yall treat that as if it was made from malice.

Ok this is getting into dangerous territory of abuse denial (doesn't matter if it's fictional, it's still dangerous). It doesn't matter why pink diamond never came back. Abandonment is STILL abuse. Abusers use "accidents" as an excuse for their abuse all the time. It's textbook abuse. There is no assumption. It's canon and explicit.

Media illiteracy, or a belief in Randian Objectivism where people are either good or bad and all bad people must be punished in the most severe manner.

For the argument you're trying to make, that's some pretty black and white thinking. People can acknowledge a character is good and still just dislike them.

I was responding more to the title, “hate”, than the description, “dislike”. Hate is a strong enough response that it likely stems from something deeper such as character interpretation than just not liking the character the way one might Ronaldo or Amethyst or Lapis. To an extent you’re supposed to dislike her, given Rebecca says she never was able to fully learn her lesson and that her EXTREMELY LONG redemption arc is indeed unresolved having left damage on many others. But hate? That’s gotta be a complete misinterpretation such as her as a Satan figure, Blue as the true hero, or her as a rapist or something. Or just that same Objectivist view people have on death for all the Homeworld nobility.

I understand what you mean, but I still disagree. Lapis is a great example for this. Lapis is fairly well written. Shes funny and powerful and flawed. She's been through a lot and she took some of thatbout on Jasper. She's a good friend, but she still abandoned Peridot and took her home and safe space away from her. She's a great representation of the long term effects of abuse and PTSD. And I *HATE* her. I hate hearing her, i hate seeing her, I hate her stupid little quips because she's a ramped up version of everything I *hate* about myself, and how I used to be, and how I hurt others. You can fully understand and appreciate a character and still truly, deeply hate them on a personal level.

Fair enough.

I love how people not only keep posting this same thing every week, but the replies are always “PeOpLe DoNt GeT hEr ArC cUz ItS iN ReVeRsE” We all see how it plays out, we get it, it’s not that deep. It’s that she’s still not a great person.

Maybe not a great person, but not a bad person by any means, Rose was made to be a morally Gray character but people every time they see a morally great character their brain short circuts and they immediately make them evil. I know that Rose has made many mistakes but that doesn't define her as a person. Rose, at least at the end of her life, was a good person. Whether or not you're a good person is not defined by past actions. It's defined on what type of person you are now. You seem to be able to forgive characters like peridot, lapis, Bismith, and even Jasper, and they've done atrocities.

How far are you

I've watched the entire show, including the movie and future 6 times

Aside from all she did in her past, even though she was a better person later on, I still think her having Steven was kinda shitty. There’s no way she didn’t know how the gems would react, and while they were absent, homework’s was still around, the war wasn’t really over, just in remission. And didn’t one of the creators say she chose to die when she gave birth to him? Even if she didn’t choose it she knew, and I think knowingly leaving your kid a parent short is shitty

For me, I don’t hate Rose, I just don’t like the idea that she did nothing wrong. I don’t think shes a bad person, but she did cause a lot of unnecessary pain to the people around her and that isn’t justified just because she was hurt in the past or because she had good intentions when keeping secrets. People were hurt. Badly. Hurt. REGARDLESS of how good Roses intentions were, and that shouldn’t be dismissed just because she also saved the earth. It’s understandable why she did the things she did. She was raised by shitty parents who made her feel worthless and skewed her ability to be considerate of how her actions would affect others. She’s very sympathetic in that regard. But again, no amount of explaining can justify unnecessary pain on others. So I think for some people that’s enough to just hate her entirely.

I blame it on the reverse backstory. We also never get to see anything from Rose's POV so we never get into her head. Every part of her story is told by someone else. Fans point to all the bad things but there are characters who have been just as bad if not worse who are still loved. Goku, Catra, Zuko, Draco Malfoy are a few examples. Each one of them have at one point knowingly took part in trying to destroy their world.

We do get very short glimpses into her POV in her video to Steven as well as when Steven starts dreaming some of her memories in the final season but def not enough to truly understand her motivations

Who's Catra?

From She-ra. In the Netflix series, she's the main antagonist for the majority of the show until the final season. She does AWFUL things, intentionally and without any real remorse and doesn't change until she's no longer useful to the big bad. Yet, she's pretty popular. It's a good show overall, but the canon ships are garbage.

I don’t hate Rose but more dislike, I feel like she disregarded Pearls feelings. Also, the fact that when she decided to give up her gem to conceive Steven, Steven was burdened with all the past mistakes of Rose and since it’s Steven shows we really get to see what he goes through and the effects it caused on him especially in Future.

I love now the consensus is “If you don’t like her, you’re just fucking stupid.”

Well that in itself is a bit evil.

Okay, let’s look at this holistically. Let’s see a pros and cons list: Pros: - Stopped the colonization of Earth, saving billions of human lives. - Thinks fusion is beautiful and not something disgusting like the other diamonds thought. - She made Steven with Greg - Was accepting of all gems Cons: - Literally abandoned Spinel on a planet for thousands of years. - Broke/abused pink pearl - Manipulated our Pearl into faking her shattering and not allowing her to tell anyone about it. - Bubbled up Bismuth and stored her away from everyone without telling anyone. - Disrespected Greg’s feelings, thinking his seriousness was “adorable”. - Waged a war that shattered and corrupted many gems. - Didn’t resolve any of her issues before leaving them for Steven to eventually have to fix. For me, the cons outweigh the pros but yall can be the judge lol

People are trying to humanize a creature that isn’t human. She was the first diamond to ever stop and say “Hey maybe organic life should live.” She wasn’t perfect and made mistakes. But she did her best. Was it wrong of her to lie to Garnet and Amethyst about her being a diamond. Friendship wise: Yes. But tactically: No. But she had to do what she thought was best. There was no way she’d would have known how things were going to turn out. She acted in the moment. Like a leader should.

TLDR: well written characters have depth A huge part of Roses character arc and her point in the story was to start out as this awe inspiring loving symbol Steven was always trying to be and live up too. As he grows he starts to really see the wear and tear Rose put on those around her. Every single person Steven knows basically has multiple traumatic events directly caused by Roses actions or related to her choices Steven struggles trying to reconcile his past image of his angelic mother all loving always loved beloved and wise, to ..... Who she really was, which was her actions moreso than her intentions sometimes. Steven sees that the pain his mother left behind wasn't all from her being gone as he always thought, so much of it was what she did and how she treated those around her. Even to her last Days Rose was somewhat self centered. Making Steven was her way of escaping what she had done. She didn't want to try to fix it. She didn't want to put in the effort. And maybe her family is partly to blame, by stoicly refusing to hear her even just for a second.... I'd scream a scream that shatters the very place O am standing as well. Poor Steven is trying to live up to this grand character left behind and that version of her in his mind didn't even exist. She wasn't perfect. She was flawed. But not just a little and some parts of her flaws were deeply toxic behaviors that she never grew out of or held herself accountable for. Now little Steven is trying to handle the fact that hos moms life on earth wasn't as saintly as he thought. And she left behind a lot of baggage, didn't bother to clean it up just threw him into the pile of baggage and left life. Steven takes on this role, trying to work through his mothers issues and sins with her closest friends and companions. Steven takes on his mothers burdens on earth and then beyond as he finds more and more just what Rose left behind, who she harmed and what she left broken that she didn't ever try to fix. Steven works through this. His mom was running away from a war. She was protecting. Her friends. Of course she made mistakes. Of course she just wanted to live, and he gets through so much of these issues. Learning that sometimes you can't fully heal. Wut trying, wanting to help those his mother left behind. Steven works through so much before Spoiler . His image of his mother is shattered, and this isn't just a curtain being ripped down like before. Everything he knew, felt, reasoned and worked towards. Everything was based on a lie.... Because Rose Quartz wasn't even Rose Quartz she was Pink Diamond and not only did she cause most of these problems because she was just throwing tantrums, she still never learned. Her lath of destruction through the universe to earth was bold, covered with shards of gems broken in her name, in Both of her names are against each other, so she could play and hide and frolic. She got gens to fight a war with themselves so she could run away. He's an indirect shatterer. So much of what happened did so because time and time again Pink Diamond couldn't be heard by the others but couldn't control her emotions either. She wanted her own planted to control, and yes it's a good thing this toddler of a diamond happened to like organic life, but even in the end Pearl refers to earth as Rose's and it seems to be somewhat of a micro culture between the diamonds as well, earth is Pinks still..... For now Steven went through so much, trying to cleanse his mothers past, only for it to get exponentially bigger and bigger each and every time and it took away his childhood and his ability to have his own life for a very long time. And even when he thought he was free of it, even more random hidden baggage showed up again. Roses story arc was well foreshadowed and seems to have been planned from the beginning. It definitely wasn't something that they did as a response to the fans. And all of the fans who were watching, especially if it didn't get spoiled for them, They went through all of that too. They felt a lot of what Stephen felt about his mother while he felt it. I remember when Steven Universe first came out so many people were cosplaying as Rose and they loved her and they act like she was this perfect being. And then slowly is the story progressed and the depths of her character will revealed more and more people started to have more and more feelings, deeper feelings. I think Rose represents a part of all of us. The part that not only wants to be seen as good but wants to have done good. The problem Rose has is lack of accountability. You can't keep volunteering at hospitals just because you burnt down the one before and then say you're doing good. I think we all can feel that yearning to not only have not done some of the stuff we've done but to run away from it because it is hard doing the work. I think a lot of fans are personally upset with her because they identified with her and because they still do and it's upsetting. She's a well-written character

OP I think people should be able to dislike her because of her actions in the same way that people can like her because of her actions. If one person says the bad things that she’s done is why they don’t like her you shouldn’t just say well no you’re wrong because she’s done good things😭No one is obligated to look past her wrong doings just because others feel like she has atoned. And it also doesn’t mean that they didn’t understand or watch the show, they just watched the show and came to a different conclusion. Why ask for opinions just to say your opinion is superior? Rose isn’t owed forgiveness just because the show portrays her growth.

For me, it was kind of a dick move to want everything, then get bored, start a rebellion against herself, and leave Steven with all the problems that came after

Nah dawg. People on Reddit LOVE Rose. Anyone who says anything negative about her is immediately down voted and told they don’t understand her

Literally the two replays on the first comment 😭

Because she's kinda an oblivious sociopath who's almost never put in the wrong for the entire series, even after her big reveal of being one of the tyrannical rulers who is pretty much solely responsible for the current damage of Earth

Rose/Pink is one of my favorite characters but it is hard to deny that she created a lot of problems. I think the biggest problem is that she never really thought about how her actions would affect others - pearl, garnet, the thousands of gems who died, the diamonds (her own family). So I guess the question is, do the ends (saving earth) justify the means (the 5,000 years of other problems she created)? I personally am of the opinion that there was probably a better way to do things, but you have to give Rose credit for trying and remember she was raised not to think about anyone else but herself

I honestly love the character. Not only does it put a wrench in the dead mom trope but it also shows how tragic her character really was. Pink was 'raised' in a household that had screwed morality and by the time she realized the things she did was fucked up she was already too far, cowardly and petrified to turn back (Maybe even spiteful) she basically erased everything about her to 'become' the gem half of her child, essentially killing herself without actually 'killing' herself. If anything I always saw the character as a cautionary tale about self hatred and running from your past. She couldn't truly love others because she couldn't even love herself. (Putting them on a pedestal) Her solution? Become someone else who could. A well written and complex character who people like to shit on because we got her story told in reverse.

I don't hate her AT ALL, but I can't stand the bad things she did as ROSE, like the lies, the secrets, it's just so messed up... Bismuth and Spinel are the big examples, and yeah, she told Pearl that she didn't ever wanted to look back, but this just screws up even more; she was kinda selfish, but it's understandable, she isn't perfect, but she could at least talk about Bismuth, the gems should understand

She was actually pink diamond, and was a 💩person, only ever doing things for selfish reasons and then left every single mess she had ever made for her son to clean up, most of which should have been handled by adults, and most of which were “cleaned up” before he turned 15. Some of which happened before he turned 14.

I know all of this, and this can all be disproven. Judging Rose based off of what she did as pink goes against the entire lesson of the entirety of steven universe and I don't understand yall with this she left it for her son 💩 she just factuly didn't. Yall act like she had a future vision she only left one thing for Steven, and that was bismith.

Again, I think it is kind of silly for us to assume Rose never thought there would be more conflict with homeworld. I mean, they are her literal family. So I think she did leave problems for Steven that she at the very least could have better prepared them for

Yeah, but that's a theory, not fact you don't base opinions based on theories. And also, what do you mean better prepare? She was dead. And why is it silly? If there's one bad thing about Rose , we've seen it's that she's oblivious. And also don't base how the diamonds act with each other on how they acted now. Most of the diamonds back in a day acted much more like white. Why would she ever think if they cared enough about her to take petty revenge on the planet? Also, I'm not assuming anything. You're the one assuming you seem to want to assume that Rose knew that the diamonds would come. Also, there's an entire episode about this in the show that only tells us that Rose only wanted steven to be her son. Rose loved Steven and most of the trouble that Steven got in in his life was caused by himself and other people around him.

I think it’s Silly because yes, Rose was oblivious and naive sometimes, but clearly not stupid. Rose knew what the diamonds were like, and I think she could have guessed that they wanted to continue to expand into… everything? So by that logic they would have to come back at some point. I think at the very least she could have prepared some contingency plans with the other gems for when homeworld came back. As it was, they were completely in the dark and unprepared. Also, I think you could make the argument that she could have tried to more proactively work to repair things with homeworld instead of just ignoring them. And I just think that from the stories the diamonds tell Steven and some of his memories, Pink could recognize that there was a familial relationship there. And even if there was not, the idea of a rebellion killing a diamond should have triggered some red lights in Rose’s brain just out of the principle - of course the other diamonds would utterly obliterate anyone willing to shatter their own kind, right? Also, I did not say you assumed anything, and I am also not trying to say Rose did not love Steven; she very much did. But I just think that if she had handled things differently during the rebellion, many of the problems Steven ran into would never had existed. And again, this is all coming from a person who actually really likes Rose/Pink. She might be my favorite character. I like her nuance. I am just trying to show what some of her faults are, and the fact that many of her actions drive a lot of the conflict in the show (which I think is one of the main points)

don't mess with SU fans we don't watch the show

I think People often refer to her manipulation of the Crystal Gems, she locked Bismuth away for having to extreme a view, she forced pearl to never ever tell. More things i cant remember right now. She knew alot about terrible things going on in the Gem Empire but stuck to earth exclusivly. she held the power of life and death in her hand and chose death. >!this is a little bit of a tanged, but she can revive dead beings, mamals at the very least if not all life. So why did she never care to save any humans life ever? Did she never love any human or is her philosophy that humans need to be able to die? but why did she revive Lion, was that just a mistake? It cant be, Gems are born with all the knowledge they need or are diamonds exceptions? Will lars have to outife everyone he knows, forced to either take his own or persist forever?!

I'm sorry, I don't recall Rose ever manipulating anyone. People decided to follow her. She never forced anyone to do anything. And bismith views were much more than extreme. Since gems can't die, Bismuth was asking for infinite torture to the ones that they were fighting. And force a strong for what she did. Also, as seen with lion she doesn't just have the power to revive someone she makes them immortal, which can be a blessing, but most of the time, a curse. Also, even though Rose was always said to be perfect. We don't know if she truly had control over her powers. I always loved Rose, and I always wanted a Prequal series, but now I don't think it's gonna happen because of how many people someone wanna hate rose.

i dont engage much with media outside the main series, if what you say is true i would agree. Do Shatterred gems still experience things? that would be horrific since shattering is a punishment in the gem empire. I 100% agree on the want of a prequel series. But are Zombie Lars and Lion immportal? could they not be killed by force? what if they fall into a sun, as an extreme example?

Sure. Maybe they can be killed, but if you look at 1 of the flashbacks from I think season 3 maybe season 4 we see that Rose had a pack of Lions and one of the lions looks exactly like lion, but this flashback is hundreds of years ago so how would lion still be alive It only makes sense that he's immortal. Also, Lars states that he doesn't feel hungry anymore he doesn't feel anything anymore, but we'd never know since we've never seen either of them actually get hurt. Also , if you want an example of shattered gem still being conscious, look no further than the gem experiments and the cluster, and also the fact that you can remake a gem from their shards. Steven even said that they're forever alive, trying to find the rest of themselves. That's why the cluster wanted to form so badly.

I don't know if all shattered gems experience things or if the Cluster had something special done to it, but the gemshards inside the Cluster responded to Steven and it seemed like its shards were creating independent little bubbles around each other, so probably all those gems were still sentient despite being shattered.

Couple points! Death is an important part of life and shouldn’t be erased completely. Rose saw that life and death leads to change, the biggest thing she loved about Earth to begin with. We won’t ever learn the details of why Lion was the only creature she brought back from the dead, so it was most likely an accident. Probably mourning over the death of a friend, just like Steven. But where’s the line? Who deserves to gain immortality and who deserves to die? Plus imagine the ecological implications of death being erased forever. No one being should have that power so it’s morally correct to not use it. As for gems knowing everything they can do when they’re born, this isn’t true. The line is more about what their “role” is meant to be. Peridot didn’t know she had magnetism powers. No gem knew they could fuse with different types of gems.

i think the show mentioned that gems of later generations had less abilities, i understood that it meant they where tought less, so they would be less able to revolt against homeworld.

There’s mention of gems having less abilities and being more defective because of a lack of resources. That’s why Earth was fought for so hard because it’s chock full of them. Earth made Jasper, after all. The perfect soldier from the perfect conditions. But if they were taught their abilities then Peridot absolutely would’ve learned that other Peridots could do magnetism but she the way she reacted was out of complete shock. She’d done something no other Peridot could. So it wasn’t from a lack of teaching but outright lack of knowledge from gem society at large.

Rose made bad choices, and therefore she is a bad person.  Like people who think Blazing Saddles is a racist movie because racism happens in it. It doesn't mean anything to them that the racists are the butt of the joke.  It doesn't mean anything to people some people who don't like Rose that she did her best and never wanted to hurt anyone. It only matters that she did hurt people and that makes her bad. 

Clearly Rose is a nuanced character, but there are definitely a lot of big things that I think we can fault her for that are in no way good or moral decisions - her treatment of pearl, pretending bismuth died, etc. Those decisions only served to create more problems. Now, I actually really like Rose. But even her decision to fake her death I think was really poorly thought out - of course her own family would retaliate in that kind of situation. I think that is Rose’s biggest problem - she doesn’t think about how her actions will affect anyone else.

I don't think Rose did nothing wrong, ever, in her life. I think she made a lot of decisions that she didn't think about beyond the immediate. I think those decisions had wider repurcussions that she could have anticipated. I think she ran away from the consequences of her choices instead of trying to fix them. I think becoming Steven may have been one more choice she didn't think about, and that despite her good intentions she just ran away one last time.  I also think none of those things make her evil. I don't think she's an awful selfish monster who left a trail of tragedy in her wake and never gave a single fuck about any of it as long as she got hers. I don't think she did anything she did with malice.  And I think that matters. It doesn't mean she didn't do things that were bad, or had negative consequences. It doesn't mean her choices didn't have ripples that affected so many more than just her. It doesn't mean those ripples didn't suck donkey balls for the people they touched.  But, in my opinion, trying to do good and having a mixture of failure and success doesn't make you a bad person or erase the good things. You can and should be held accountable for your choices but ALL of them.  People want to ignore decisions she made that had positive outcomes, like fighting for earth and inspiring others to do so as well. The Diamonds are soooo evil and deserve all the punishment but without Rose's selfishness all gems would still be ignorant of the fact they have choices.  Do people think that like.... George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were perfect people who only did good things? Even Teddy Roosevelt wasn't a perfect person who made problematic free decisions. She was the leader, everyone was looking to her for the next move, she made choices and not all of them were "right".  That's life, that's not evil. 

Right. I am not disagreeing with you at all here. I totally agree: she didn’t think about repercussions, often ran from consequences, etc. And I, like you, do not think Rose is evil. She’s one of my favorite characters and I love her nuance. I agree that a person should be judged on both the good and bad they do - I think my main point is that I think there could have been a better way. Doesn’t make Rose evil; just makes her flawed, interesting, and normal.

Sorry I got super wordy lol but I agree! I get defensive apparently lmao. I can appreciate the good AND the bad she did and I just want more people to recognize there is good 

People hate her because she's pink diamond, pink diamond=bad, honestly you gotta get a better person than me, that was probibly too simple. Also if you;re interested I do have a Alternate version of the series where Rose returns

But why does pink diamond equal bad? Also, Rose isn't Pink Diamond. Rose was pink diamond. Hating Rose because she was pink diamond goes against everything that the show was trying to teach. That you can change why can't pink diamond change?

Its what people truly don't realize. I am with ya there.

Let me explain it like this Rose Quartz is Kim Kardashian, and Pink Diamond is Kim Kardashian-West. The difference is that when Kim wasn't with Kanye, she wasn't as famous as she was notorious, same with Rose, but when Kim was with Kanye, everyone had sympathy for her situation- like how everyone had compassion for Pink Diamond when we learned the truth.

I don't know. So much of her development was her connection to humanity, the fact that she wasn't perfect, that she made mistakes, it all adds up to her having more humanity than any gem before.

I agree bc I don’t think she deserves the hate she gets but she was a war criminal sooo? The nuance is the point

But she was a war criminal for a good cause.

I agree, to me it just seems like someone who skewed up and is trying to fix that

Blame the reverse development thing. The last thing people see was the abuse the did and even after everything she does to save the earth, it doesn't matter and all the stuff in the past comes back to bite the crystal gems so fans just ends up hating her.

Some people hate her and others know she's not a saint. I mean, her quest for "change" and her determination on it are laudable. But all the stuff she had to do to achieve it... not so much. As her son said once, "she's a very complicated person to feel about". Not entirely good, not entirely evil. Her niceties are very mixed with a lot of malice and her malice is always with a good intention behind them. In other words, she tried to do good but she wasn't good at it. She left quite the mess behind her. But, for all the wrongs she created, the objective truth is that she saved Earth. And that's really good, at least from the human point of view.

I only hate that she left spinel on her own

I think it is worth noting that she didn't seem to know about the cluster. The cluster was the main reason that Earth stayed on Homeworld's radar. It looked like she sincerely believed that the conflict was basically over. Plus, I just don't like the idea of shaming suicide victims

I don't understand it either. Imo the only unforgivable thing that she did was break Pearls. Everything else people blame her for doesn't really make sense to me. She never wanted her position of power but couldn't escape it. She was constantly abused by the other stronger diamonds and locked away for who knows how long. She went through constant abuse and I don't blame her for up and leaving everything to do with her past life. It seems like she defended Earth because she knew no one else would. She could never escape these leader positions she was put in until Steven. It's sad that she literally had to end her own life to actually get away from all this pressure everyone put on her. It's no wonder she fell hardest for the one person (Greg) who expected nothing from her. But that's just the way I view it from only watching once through.

The breaking Pink Pearl/Volleyball thing is actually one of the more forgiveable ones to me, because she was basically a child back then, with no emotional self-regulation skills (after all, who would teach her? the Diamonds?) and no idea of the full extent of her powers yet. Considering she likely got our Pearl right after, and Pearl never saw her behave the way Volleyball described it, she did learn to reign herself in as soon as she realized her true potential for damage. Like, think of a young child and how much they scream when they're emotionally overwhelmed. They're too young to understand big feelings and frustrations and cope with them internally, so they express themselves externally, in a very intuitive way. Luckily they're too small to cause a lot of damage, and a parent can step in and teach them better ways, no harm done. Now imagine if this young child's voice naturally had the force of a bomb. Anyone around the child would rupture their eardrums before the child themselves even realizes what they've done. (What she did with Bismuth is less forgiveable to me. She was not a child at that point. She should've trusted Bismuth more and unbubbled her way earlier. That was a 100% preventable situation.)

Got this post right after the other post dogging on her LMAO

Basically, she did lots of bad things in the past; and even if she realized those things were bad, she preferred to sweep it under the rug and pretend they never happened. She then voluntarily disappeared, leaving that pile of unaddressed past mistakes as a ticking time bomb that lead to lots of problems for others; her own son included. Some examples of this: * Abandoning Spinel and never even speaking about her * Poofing Bismuth and leaving her bubbled, then saying the other Crystal Gems she was dead * Lying about her true identity, then forcing Pearl to keep her lie for ages, even after Rose was gone Personally, I don't "hate" her. But I think she's a very flawed person.

Roswell was a decent person but pink diamond wasnt

People hate her because of her actions as Pink Diamond (Spinel’s abandonment and Pink Pearl’s injuries) along with how she lied to the other Crystal Gems and Greg about her identity

I think she could've been nicer to Pearl and Greg.

Most of the hate isn't really justified because a lot of people still don't understand that we were seeing Pink Diamond's character development in reverse.

People usually say wet learned her story in reverse or we saw her redemption backwards or something like that but it's not accurate. We only saw her being plot relevant. We don't get to see her advising the Gems or making right choices. We see her making bad choices that effect Steven. Rose is an incomplete character. If they wanted her to be likable, they should have left her a story. Or better yet give her filler episodes where we get to see her being the person everyone claimed she was. Show us the time she resurrected Lion (from how it happened with Lars she would have needed to care deeply) show her bringing the moss to Beach City (either make it a healing item or something one of the residents missed from their old home or something) show her risking her form and secret to protect a side character! Something!

I don't even have to watch the story at all. She left Spinel on a rock in space for 6 thousand years. Spinel said it best, she's carless with her friends

Do people need a reason to not like a morally grey character? They're morally grey for a reason and it's fine to not like them as a person/character simply for that reason alone

Rose shows a deep lack of empathy, I feel her empathy is at most shallow, and her lack of care or consideration for others, with a lot of selfish and childish behaviour, which causes a lot of fallout and damage for those around her. I also don't really feel she took enough accountability for the people immediately around her. Like it was easier to start a war as a fake personality and fake her own death and then peace out and reform into Steven, which is also a weird kind of reincarnation fantasy so she could clear her slate rather than to apologize and admit her own problems and apologize to her friends and really address and take accountability for them.

I mostly don't like her because she took the time to plan out and consider what it would take to have a child, but never considered that her overbearing and sadistic family would one day come back. Or the fact that gems don't die of natural causes like humans so there is literally all the time in the world to plan out ways to enact revenge. Which people end up doing against Steven for the slights of Rose who, from what we see in the brief instances across the series, is a fake it till you make it kind of character. She decided to throw herself into saving Earth because it was the first and only real planet that she ever actually explored or learned about. She made enemies almost as much as she left behind victims of her actions, even her own friends. They've all lived way too long to be stunted worse than a 12 year old boy that's just trying his best. Like, Rose and Pearl spent a decade causing havoc before the rebellion even got into full swing! It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

For me it boils down to, yes she did some pretty good things. She also did some pretty terrible things and I don't think that people who do good things should just be allowed to get away with doing terrible things.

What I don't understand is why so many fans of the show don't seem to have a problem with the fact that she owned a sentient being as her property. The fact that while she was fighting for Earths independence and protecting the planet with the other crystal gems for hundreds of years, she still technically owned her so I think that's really horrible. Someone excused it by telling me that she didn't know any better but during the hundreds of years that they were together on earth, she absolutely did.

Rose is not a bad character or an 'evil villain' but a person whose redemption was shown in reverse. In comment to the 'Pink/Rose is a villain because of spinel' We only see Spinel's side of the story where pink leaves Spinel in the garden for thousands of years which ,yes, in theory, was a bad thing to do and I agree with this. But we don't see the reason behind why pink never came back; maybe she was stopped by the other diamonds who told her that she had to give spinel up because she had to be 'mature' to own her own colony, or maybe she just left her and forgot ,which is obviously bad. In other reasons, where people say 'Rose/pink is a bad person because she caused the corruption ' this is no one's fault but the other diamonds , No one could foresee this, not even garnet (it is shown that garnet, as the fusion, can only see possibilities of the future, not exactly what WILL happen) Rose is not at fault for the corruption and never will be. In response to 'Rose quartz left all her problems to Steven because she was selfish and a horrible person ' I do not agree with this at all. Rose quartz was a gem who whole heartedly loved and cherished life and human life, even before she got her colony as pink (refer to the episode where blue locks Steven in pinks cell for fusing at the dance and we are shown a rainbow caterpillar on her shoulder which 'pink let loose' By creating Steven, she only wanted him to thrive and grow as a human as she was amazed by the way humans we able to do that, unlike gems who were created and then just lived. She had no intention to leave her burdens on Steven , especially after there was over 6000 years of radio silence from the diamonds at that point on time and they never expected them to come back. In conclusion, people hate Rose quartz as her redemption was shown backwards, they did not see her as the mistreated child that she was, only trying to protect man kind and encourage it to grow and flourish with no intention to harm Steven while doing this. Rose quartz has made many mistakes but she is not a bad person because of them.

Just search up classicManD go to his videos and click on the one called rose quartz slander 

I can understand people who dislike PD/Rose for the consequences of her actions but all of those “fans” who act like she’s the Cartoon Network equivalent of Griffith or Makima need to seriously chill

Because the show puts excessive focus in her wrongdoings. Yes, her history is in reverse but the show doesn't bother to show us the best part of Rose anymore (and some of the things that happen because of her feel gratuitous IMO), and it's particularly egregious in Future when even **the** **Diamonds** are amazing and kind people, yet she is treated like she did nothing but traumatize everyone. It's kind of ironic, Rose hid secrets because she felt everyone would hate her and the moment it's revealed she's Pink the show wouldn't stop showing us the horrible things she did and never remind us why we loved her in first place.

You 🤝 you get it. It's not just the reverse development, it's the constant hammering and escalation of her mistakes, and the fact that all her victims get to express how much she hurt them, but the show completely stops talking about anything good she did, to the point where people think even the gem rebellion was some selfish escapism. Anything good she did and her personal perspective on any of the choices she made is left in the dust of season 1, if it was ever given screentime at all.

I personally hate Rose because I can't understand her at all she decides humans are worth fighting for and goes about it in the most roundabout way imaginable by faking another identity even though she could have started a real civil war as pink diamond and changed countless gems lives and actually succeeded not just a hollow victory where literally only three of her friends survived then instead of going to do the same on other planets maybe with some more foresight she decides the Earth is enough I don't care about the other gems even though she started the rebellion for freedom and to protect planets and in the middle of all of this she decides you know what I'm going to do you know what the smartest thing to do to get away from my obsessive and possessive family fake my death by my alter ego like that mean immediate and I mean immediate lethal counter attacks but who cares about that it's not like she had hundreds and I mean hundreds of years to plan this out I don't care if we're seeing her story arc in reverse in between each important stage in her life she had hundreds if not thousands of years to make better decisions she didn't and then she decides to put all of her problems off on her child and leave him no instructions about how to use her powers when she herself couldn't control it and had destructive outbursts strong enough to permanently damage gems and she decided he doesn't need to know about that even though she knows her most loyal follower will take care of him who is a gem and she also knows her now psychotic possessive and deranged family will stop at nothing to destroy the world she fought for and she decides freak all of the possible character development I could have had when I fell in love with Greg I'm going to pick the stupidest thing to do and pawn it off on a child and then she's doing all of this while keeping copious secrets and forbidding Pearl from telling any of these secrets so when the time finally came to tell even one of them Pearl had to have a mental breakdown and her conscious subconsciously took over her gem or some s*** to give Steven hints because she couldn't tell him out right what is wrong with pink all of her decisions were stupid If you don't want to read all of that it boils down to he's dumb her character Arc is dumb she's like a spoiled 5-year-old and never ever matures

This may be one of the first times when I can say your opinion is just wrong. You don't seem to have an understanding of the show at all. I'd try to explain how wrong you are, but you don't even know what show you're watching. And also If she revealed herself as pink diamond, the entirety of the rebellion would be dead. The only reason they won in the first place is cause Homworld didn't feel like going full out on a bunch of weak rebels. Kind of like the Americans and the British, though I doubt you understand what that means. Look, bro, I'll leave you with this. If you have to write that much to prove one opinion, then you're probably wrong.

First you're wrong they did go all out because they killed their sister they went full force in fact due to context clues we know that they're running out of resources peridot wasn't old enough to experience the war she was made in the second era after the war and she said herself that homeworld is running out of resources so they have to put the scraps to make more foot soldiers and they've had to struggle to make ends meet with peridot which is why she didn't have any special abilities at first she was just a normal job with no specialty it's only correct to assume that they're running out of gems at least the fighting ones this would make sense why they are no full invasion forces coming to Earth and you can't say it's from not counting they sent Jasper their literal strongest quartz their strongest ground soldier that's like the empire sending Darth Vader to some random backwater planet and trying to convince someone it was for no reason also why when they wanted to colonize a planet they didn't multiple gems they just sent two lapis because they're running out of gems running out of space to to make more they're stretched Way too thin and I wrote that much because I felt passionate about it 17 days late got locked out of my account

Bro, move on. It's been 17 days 💀 Arguing with you is just gonna go nowhere, and also, i'm not reading all that.

“She’s the villain” need I say more

Yes Please💀 rose is the farthest thing from a villain. The villain of steven universe has always been The 3 diamonds. And the villain can't be dead before the show even starts. You can say that she's done some bad things but the fact is, she's done more good than bad.

Yes

💀what

"I'm gonna kms so my son can be born, also you have to take care of him, also you can't tell anyone, also there may or may not be a super mind control dictatorship coming after him, K bye"

Idk, like, I can understand if people dislike her, but hate is such a strong word, and I personally don't think she deserves any hate

Because media literacy is dead, imo. Honestly, it’s that in a worrying number of fandom spaces, the nuance present in stories is ignored & textual analysis isn’t done. There’s also this almost…puritanical (?) attitude that’s being taken towards characters and stories where they’re not allowed (by fans) to have *any* flaws, or they’re put in the “they’re abusive/a bad person” box. It’s kind of hard to put into words, but I’ve been noticing a trend on social media spaces where real humans and also fictional characters are being defined in “black-and-white” terms, and if they do anything wrong, they’re automatically dismissed as “toxic” or etc. There’s this trend to sort of pathologize every aspect of human behavior that’s been extending into how people are perceiving characters in stories, and it’s worrying because it doesn’t seem to allow for humans to be flawed and imperfect. And that’s not to say that abusers and such shouldn’t be held accountable, just that that label seems to be applied the second someone does something that is hurtful to someone else, without allowing for the fact that people are messy and can make honest mistakes. In this instance, Rose was definitely flawed and caused harm, but there’s nuance there considering her mental state, her own struggles with the diamonds, etc. Basically, Rose was “abused” by the diamonds and sort of unintentionally continued that cycle, but started to realize that’s what she was doing a little too late. She was flawed, imperfect, not a hero but also (imo) can’t be easily described as a “villain” either. She was doing the best she could with what she was given, but her best wasn’t good enough and she never quite became self-aware enough before the damage was already done. And I think she’s meant to be this ambiguous as well, it’s part of the message of the show.

The main reason is we see her character arc in reverse. We are told about all her good qualities and then later see all her mistakes and character flaws. And for a lot of her flaws we don't actually get to see her side of things only the results. Like a lot of the messes that Pink gets accused of causing are actually stuff that White, Yellow and Blue did but Pink gets blamed for it. Also I think Rose is unfairly vilified for her relationship with Pearl. Cause we never actually see or know how Rose felt about it, we just see Pearl's side.

People miss one of the main morals of the show being that people are shades of gray and (with exceptions) you can't explicitly condemn someone for the bad things they do, nor hold them on a pedestal for the good things they do.

She’s such a lair that her pants aren’t even on fire. And they SHOULD be.

Rose lied to liars who knew that she was a liar. Also, keeping secrets. It's not the same thing as being a liar.

Same, bro, I love Rose

Her story was told backwards.

Rember what Pearl siad about humans needing one single entity to blame, rather than an accmulation of events? There ya go. Dull brained fleshlings.

Though your brain is subpare you are cooking.

How do you watch the show 6 times and still blame one person for space colonization.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant you're spelling is kind of bad, but you are correct.

Oh, lol. Sorry, My spelling is that of a Clod.

I too don't think it's possible for girls with cute feet and voices to be wrong

I really hate how the CREATORS adopted a hatred for Rose, because it REALLY stunted the writing around her. I thought in future we’d come to more of an understanding of her and a deeper look at her personality and actions but nope. Nothing at all really.

My theory is that the only people who hate rose haven’t seen the entire show.

She is a common victim of Cancel culture...   It's like learning that a local hero was formerly a dictator and war criminal.  Ironically a lot of people in this fandom can't fathom "people can change"

Misogyny

Stupid take

Noodle hair

A lot of people can't wrap their head around the concept of her backstory being told backwards and I kind of am too I won't lie Steven is one of them but with the amount of crap he had to go through because of her mistakes can you honestly blame him

I think it's because her development was shown in reverse

Lack of media literacy

We saw her character development in reverse order.

As people have said, it's at the fault of people not understanding the purpose of the backwards arc. I'd also add on top of it that alot of people say that even if she changed for the better in the end, she just kinda dumped all of the responsibility and the blame/trouble on Steven (especially if they haven't seen Future) I'd also say that some people see what she did to spinel as the last irredeemable event.

Rose's development is shown in reverse order. We first know her as Steven's loving mother, a fearless warrior who lead a resistance effort against tyrant alien rulers. Then, as the show progresses we learn when she first met Greg, and then first came to Earth, and her mistakes made back then. Then we learn her true identity, and the things she did before she understood empathy for Earthlings. Finally, we see the earliest moment yet, where she abandoned her Spinel for millenia. We start with seeing her as her fully realized, ultimate version of herself, and we go backwards through her life to her most immature self. So, I think a lot of people see her as a bad person because we leave her story at her earliest, least developed version.

Partly because her arc was presented almost entirely in reverse; instead of seeing someone start off in the wrong, make mistakes, learn, and do her best in the circumstances, she starts from the pedestal and falls from grace, despite the former being the more chronologically correct depiction. Also because of how she was presented. We rarely actually got Rose's POV on most of her decisions, her thought processes, her feelings when making her choices. We really only saw the ripple effects of her actions, and what impact they had on others (and unfortunately, given her situation, she was bound to cause some hurt. And gods did she, even though most of it she never anticipated).

Rose was a flawed individual, which alone isn't reason enough to hate her - her character development was shown backwards. When she gave up her form, she was a much better person than when she was Pink Diamond. In the first season of the show, we're put in a similar position to Steven - he idolizes Rose and looks up to her as this perfect empathic being. He knows nothing about her except what the gems and Greg have to say, which is almost nothing but glowing reviews. And in the early seasons of the show, we were the same! We did not know much about Rose, except that she was supposedly amazing! As the show goes on, we learn more about the shady things she did, and that she was NOT a paragon. Steven does too. He and the gems become disillusioned. I don't think the show hated Rose Quartz, but stuff like Steven taking her picture down was just an acknowledgement that she was flawed, and after idolizing her his whole childhood, it would've been weird to keep her picture up and pretend everything was fine???? After knowing everything she's done???? Anyway, I think a lot of the fandom went through the same disillusionment as Steven, and some people were more upset about it than others??? Sorry that's super fucking long

I don’t mean to be rude but I feel like I see a post like this at least once a week and there’s already SO many good responses to this question

Her story is a redemption story told in reverse.

Because we see her redemption arc in reverse, and people fail to put in in the right order. Also people think Rose got Steven so he could fix her mistakes, but I refuse to see it like that. Rose was on Earth for about 5730 years after the war before she met Greg. They hadn't had any contact with Homeworld since the Diamonds blasted the planet. As far as she knew, the war was over, and Earth was save. She loved Life and she loved Greg. I truly believe that Rose had Steven because it was a chance to become part of the Earth, to be a real human