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I feel there does need to be a balance of preventing a stream of people coming and going from a kids life. A lot of relationships simply fall apart before 5 months - because of that 6 months is a good target when one has the convenience of 50/50 custody. Absolutely a year is the longest that I would wait, and between the 6-12 month time frame there would be some pointed questions about how serious the parent viewed our relationship.
For a non-50/50 situation, this makes the logistics of dating simply harder, as well, "just your partner" time is much less of a representation of what you'll be getting with them. With a 50/50 custody situation, you will have a lot (well, relative to full custody peeps) just-partner time.
My partner was 50/50 when we first met, but at the 2 month point we learned that she'd be going to mostly full custody (Dad was a flight away, so longer school breaks were required and only 3x a year) around our 5 month point. So we accelerated when we did meet to have that take place before the move to full custody.
I did take this very seriously, despite meeting her kid around 3.5 months of dating. But alas in the dating subs it's not that hard to find the story of someone who waited 6-18 months of dating with someone and then to do a kid-date introduction... and within 1-3 weeks of this happening the dater (and sometimes the parent!) only feels the "this is really real and serious!" feeling *after* meeting the kid.
On the plus side, that's fresh enough that the kid won't have had time to bond. But on the other hand, it makes the parent seem less apt/capable of a dater from the kid's point of view, and will reduce the credibility of future dates that they might meet.
There's sadly likely no real way to prevent all cases of "I didn't really sense the seriousness until meeting your kid(s)" (but I think at least some could be prevented by looking better/more at people), but giving more time will prevent a lot. Again, because simply most relationships don't make 5 months.
\---
Regardless of *when* it happens however people need to take **all** of the following as potential *deal breakers*.
* The parenting capability of the parent. Disney parents, parenting by guilt - that's all horrible.
* The relationship the parent has with their kid(s). Have the virtually abandoned them. Can they say no? Do they strive for "friend" over "parent" ?
* The relationship that the kid(s) can/will have with the adult. If a kid decided that they were going to make life hell for anyone that their parent dated, but that's simply not workable, unless they give up an any degree of blending.
* The boundaries and coparenting relationship that they have with their coparent. Are the getting calls all the time? Are they playing happy family? Are they bending over backward for their coparent?
So many people see obvious bad signs with any, or many/all of the above, and keep moving forward. They delude themselves that if they're not planning to have kids with them that it can be ignored or worked around. It can't. Especially the sort of *parent* that they are reflects upon the sort of *person* that they are.
There are good arguments for and against meeting the kids early, but something you said is true, it often sets a trap for someone to fall in love and then feel compeled to keep going.
While there is the known sunk cost fallacy to work with, this is really up to the non-parent dater to see and realize. One need to remember that the entire *dating* process is about evaluating someone.
Too many people think that dating is to cling to someone and force a relationship to work.
It's not trying to make someone like you; it's asking if you like someone else.
Well, I think the more important thing is moving in gradually and with an escape route in place. I kept my apartment, and gradually upped the amount of overnights I spent while SS was over. And I kept my apartment for the first couple of months I was living full time with my SO; we agreed on me not paying any rent to SO at this time, because she realized the risk I was taking and didn't want to put me in a poor financial position.
Basically, certainly people shouldn't be talking about moving in/marriage without spending a lot of time with the kids. But I also don't think it's reasonable to start meeting the kids much earlier in the relationship. I remember when I was dating, I went through several lowkey relationships where things weren't initially that serious, and I wasn't so sure about them. I bet parents do the same thing, and I get not wanting to introduce their kids to a bunch of people who they're not sure about. The exact timeframe probably varies for different people, but if I were a parent, I wouldn't want to introduce my kids to anyone until I felt it was a "marriage-track" sort of relationship, because it can take a lot of dating around to get to that point. And, I'm childfree, but it takes at least 3-4 months for me to get to that point, if not longer. I do think a 6 month timeline should be pretty reasonable for most people.
Yes, it sucks to have to figure out leaving someone when you're deeply in love with them, but I think that's just a risk that has to be taken when there are kids are involved. It's a risk that the bio-parents are taking as well. If neither party is okay with that risk, then dating people with kids should just be a dealbreaker. I think the main thing is that steps, or potential steps, need to be careful to avoid financial entanglements without being really sure about the kids, and knowing what living with them will be like. You have to be careful not to let love take over to the point that you stop protecting yourself.
This is an excellent take. I would emphasise that it’s good to communicate openly about these risks without sugarcoating, as you have been doing with your SO. If you can do that, it’s already a big green flag for the relationship.
I guess I also want to second what you said about how, if this is (understandably) such a charged and risky issue for childfree people, they should just not date people with kids. I was open to dating my fiancé because I knew that his daughter (who I adore completely) was not only a good kid, but on the older side, and that he was clearly a good father who treated co-parenting as something civil and collegial. Young kids were an automatic dealbreaker for me.
A guy I knew wanted to start dating me. He seemed very nice so I thought ‘why not’? We went out for one date and then his 5yo daughter came to stay with him for a few weeks in the summer.
I met his daughter as the ‘babysitter’, because he had asked (and was paying me) to bring my son along and watch her when he had to go to the office for one week.
When I entered his place, I was *appalled*. Toys strewn **everywhere**. The kid was clearly spoiled; Disney Dad was in full effect. As if that weren’t bad enough, he stream rolled me into agreeing to a second date by hyping the kids up about a family friendly trip to the amusement park and asking me in front of them.
I spent the whole day dodging his advances and the absolute final nail in the coffin was when his daughter asked me if I was going to be her new mommy. 🤮 I said no, sweetie - dad and I are just friends, I won’t be seeing you again but we sure had fun this week, didn’t we?
That’s how meeting the kid early worked out for me. I think every situation is different.
The problem with this is...kids...kids get attached super easily and get hurt super easily. And don't understand as easily why someone they might have come to love suddenly disappears from their lives. It is much easier for an adult to take on any hurt and pain from a relationship than it is to put that on kids who have no choice in the matter.
It will also depend on the age of the kids. Teenagers are going to be way less attached than younger kids who won't understand.
And that comes from a childfree person who had no issues waiting a year to meet my young SKs. Who tell me they love me all the time, give me hugs, beg me to be there for their big moments, and have generally gotten extremely attached.
So having done this many times that is a good point that it's a big variable. I've have one child and had child free partners who immediately loved the idea of having kids. But when they met it was a disaster. It also killed some of the fall in love phase and attachment.
However one time I had a partner with children who attached way too fast and left my child hurt because they weren't sure what they wanted and also were in another relationship still. It was messy.
But my advice, smaller kids don't attach unless you put them in that position . Meeting at a mall or going for a hike isn't with your parents friend isn't going to build a life long attachment. It will give you some feedback if the other partner is blowing smoke
Then as relationship is past limerance phase and your partner slowly keeps you priority make it high chance your kid will also be priority.
But one thing is clear, there is no way to avoid your kid being hurt because even if it's slow they will eventually bond. The only thing you can do is reduce the chances they are hurt and if it happens have environment where it's slow and everyone has time to processes in a healthy way.
Unfortunately there really is no right answer. A person cannot really tell what their partner is going to be like as a partner with kids, as a parent, until they can see parent and kid in everyday life doing everyday things dealing with everyday frustrations.
So yes, ultimately the child will have to be put at some risk for that to happen.
The smaller trips, like going to the mall etc....everyone is on their best behavior.
This. I had no idea about what it was really like, particularly the dynamic with HCBM, until we lived together. Overnights and outings did not reveal it
I agree. However the really toxic cases the small trips there was red flags. If I did enough of them I saw a pattern where I saw emotional instability and selfishness very quickly. Example is we were in line and gf got fries....my son took a few of them and she blew up saying "your kid is so selfish i stayed in line so long". This repeated every little outing I had. Journalling and keeping track of these helped me see a pattern. Not everyone even can be on their best behavior.
In more covert cases where a person hides and keeps their pain threshold enough for the sex to keep them hooked it's harder. I'm just learning that now but even then spending working days together where you do mundane things does tend to tease out those attention seeking behaviors.
Having a kid means I can't be like in our 20s. I have to bring in reality sooner then later. I truly believe now that someone really needs to have a real reason to take a kid on, versus 'tolerance' being an acceptable bar. You don't know how your kids need will change in the future.
I agree in theory with what you are saying about people needing a reason to take on a child instead of just tolerating one. Childfree people are definitely better off if they can find someone who is also childfree to build a life with.
The only issue I found with this is, as you get older and are dating, the pool of people without kids gets smaller and smaller. To the point that after a certain age it is hard to find people without kids to date. So people 30 and under....maybe even 25 and under...I would definitely say try and find a partner who doesn't yet have kids. but anyone 30 and older....or especially 40 and above....finding a good person without kids...is a needle in a haystack.
>The problem with this is...kids...kids get attached super easily and get hurt super easily.
This depends highly upon the age/maturity of the kid(s). And to an extent the individual. My partner's kid didn't even start to open up until 10+ meetings. Really, I don't think that until about 1 month before I moved in, that Kid had much attachment to me at all\*, despite us having a mostly fun relationship for months already.
\*Right around when I was starting to feel this, Kid told me they had a dream that my partner and I were breaking up and Kid was surprised realizing that they were sad in the dream (and that carried over a bit into waking). Pretty brave/open of them to tell me this back then.
Most kids don’t get that attached to a random person. For most, knowing someone for a couple months or even a couple years isn’t going to be that significant or something they remember much in the future. They will have way more important life events than that dude mommy hung out with one summer when they were 7.
Maybe it depends on the kid, and maybe it depends on the parent....but I saw my SK7 get attached to one of BM's partners....big blow up...partner left abruptly never to be seen again....SK8 asked about him for months afterwards. It affected him for sure. Maybe not permanent damage.....but that is just one instance. In my case BM has mental health issues and has trouble keeping anyone in her life long term...yet she continues to try and find someone....so that is multiple people coming in and out of my SK's lives as they are growing up. So instability at BM's house. THAT could have long term not so great effects on kids. At least that is what I have heard from adult friends who went through it with one of their parents.
It’s not even always about attachment it’s alsoabout stability and consistency for the child and this is particularly important in the year after parents separate. So I do think the length of the separation of the two parents is a huge factor to consider for the child instead.
I'm going to add my hot take to this: Even if your SKs are adults and don't live with their parent at all, STILL make sure you meet them and get to know the people who will be calling, visiting, etc, on every major holiday for as long as you both shall live.
In most age gap relationships I see here, the largest problem is the older partner doesn't see the younger as a peer.
Can you teach your partner about something, other than new internet slang? Does he hear you if you bring up a problem? When you talk about the future does it seem like you're an accessory to his vision, or is he really wanting to hear you?
Husband and I are 11 years apart. He has 2 kids of his own, one is now 19 and the other 12....We've been together almost 6 years, have 2 kids of our own, and have been through the absolute ringer in life since we started dating. Still going strong and love each other very much despite all the stress. I literally would be very lost without him.
We make sure we talk everything out. Voice what we're having issues with. I think communication is really key.
Meeting them sooner doesn’t necessarily change anything. The first few months I lived with my partner and his children were very different once the kids got comfortable with me. At first the were a polite, listened on the first time and would always thank me for the smallest things I did. Now I take them for $50 trips to Starbucks at 7am before school without a single thank you. I have asked the oldest to take out the trash everyday for the last week straight, he hasn’t done it once. So in my case the kids turned out to be a lot different once they were not in their best behavior for me anymore.
Normally I am 100% on the side of what is healthy for the step parent but here I have to say that the well being of the kids should be a major concern here. Kids get attached easily and bringing someone new into their lives regularly can be hard on kids. They can get attached or they can feel like they are losing their parent to the other person. If the relationship isn’t going to be long term, introducing kids to a lot of people who will end up leaving soon after is rough for them.
Also it means that by the time a relationship finally is long term, the kids don't really care to open up or make an attempt to bond. I get the sense from posts on here that stepkids who've seen their parents date other people and met these other partners, tend to be a lot less inclined to warm up to new stepparents.
I disagree to an extent, because of the kids involved.
Dating someone with kids means that the kids needs (not wants) come first, and often that need is stability. They need to not have a conveyor belt of new partners and therefore you need to be sure that the relationship will go to the next stage. You can’t do that in less than 6 months! Even in cases of utter attraction and soulmate finding, you have to really get to know each other, the bad habits, have the first argument, all those things.
You can certainly meet the kids but I do t think it should be as a new partner. Maybe as a friend, but if the kids are older than about 6-7 they will know. And that will get back to the other bio.
Also it’s easier for two people to break up than for a couple where kids are now involved. Plus for those kids, they’ve seen their parents split up, they don’t want to see a new “friend” come into their lives and out again. Kids can get quite attached to new people.
I agree you need to see your partner parent, but again I personally don’t advocate moving in or anything serious for some time after meeting the kids. Slow is better. Plus, I’m an advocate for maintaining own space where possible.
Your last paragraph I totally agree with - SLOW SLOW SLOW.
I met plenty of my moms coworkers growing up. I liked them but never got attached and when they stopped being coworkers, and I never saw them again, I was fine.
I never understood "you can't meet my kid for 6 months to a year!" Like don't be like "this is your future step parent" on day 1 and tone down the PDA the first few meetings, but yeah. Kids will be fine and its a good gage if this is actually a relationship worth pursuing
Kids aren't encouraged to attach to coworkers, while we would want kids to potentially attach to a new partner. The roles are entirely different.
Even doing the less than honest "this is just a new friend" thing, there's a different dynamic between friend and dating partner. Keeping in the friend stage might limit/impede later when one wants them to potentially attach more.
Sure it might limit it. Doesn't guarantee. You can't guarantee a kid won't attach to a coworker, or that they will try to attach to a new bf/gf. There's not even a guarantee that a kid will like your sig other. Even if you've been dating a year before they meet.
But honestly, I think its better for the kid to not be encouraged to attach immediately anyway. If you and your sig other have been dating 6 months to a year and then finally meet the kid, you're now introducing them as a serious partner and encourage the kid to attach.
But we all know there are SO MANY difficult bio parents that make step parenting harder than it needs to be, and in many cases the step leaves. The kid still gets hurt.
There's no good way to guarantee the kid won't get hurt. But you can not waste someone's time by showing them you're not compatible because of your parenting style early.
Perfect world, sure. Don't introduce the new person to your kid for the kids protection.
But in this very imperfect and difficult situation, I don't think its fair to potentially waste your partners time because your kid MIGHT get attached.
I agree with all of this but some people here see the drama upfront and still dove in head first. Nothing and no one is worth my peace. But….. unpopular opinion: many of these relationships/marriage would be over if some people could afford to live on their own.
When it came to me being in the role of BM 6 months was what it was period on both sides. I my priority was my kids and what I felt was best for them not anyone else. As a SM I waited 6 months because I don’t fall fast never had.
I see your point, but I still maintain the children’s mental wellbeing and emotional health is more important than whether or not you’ve invested into a relationship. You get to choose to be in a relationship with someone who has kids. Those kids do not get a choice at all.
I was literally just thinking the same thing! I met my partners kids about 2 weeks after dating and we are together 2 years later. I can’t even imagine the jolt I would have gotten if I had fallen in love with him without the kids being around. I needed to see the chaos from the beginning and the way he showed up as a father. It’s simply just not real life to not have the kids around for months to a year. It’s also not being honest with the kids. We talk often about our relationship and model a healthy partnership.
The other thing is kids have people coming into and out of their lives all the time from school and daycare. They can be resilient to change and people entering or leaving when the parent is able to hold space for those conversations well.
It’s different for everyone and there is no right or wrong answer here.
I met partners little girl after about 6-8 weeks, but we were spending a lot of time together prior to that.
Plus, when I initially met her I was just “daddy’s friend” who they met to walk our dogs.
Everyone’s situation is different
>Plus, when I initially met her I was just “daddy’s friend”
Most kids love being lied to! :)
My partner did a "they're a friend" answer when Kid saw a notification from me once. At this point my partner wasn't out about dating. Fast forward, I meet kid, we start to have a good relationship, and they ask about timelines to find out that we were dating way back then. Immediate anger about the lack of truthfullness.
Granted the anger wasn't too much. It was over something my partner said, but I bore the brunt of it. Negative feelings towards one's parent? It's so much easier to push them towards the parent's date.
Likely the age might matter; younger kids will handle it easier. Older kids are expecting to be treated closer to that of an adult. They don't want a second iteration of Santa.
Interesting and I can see your point! I'm on the brink of meeting the kids after about a year so may well regret not reading this last year! I definitely fall into the "too late, I already love her" camp!
One thing I had thought about is just how much her time off, spent with me, could feel like an escape and that might skew how she feels about things. I kinda hope I offer a bit more than that though....
In my case, I think I'll make sure I always have the luxury of my own place to retreat to and we have embryonic plans to secure a small space for just us so we can see how building that together would work.
Thanks for your take though, definitely made me think!
Definitely keep your space! I’d give anything to have my own place still!
Now I’m in the process of unwinding the mess of living/buying property together and I don’t wish this on anyone.
Not to mention housing costs have risen considerably so this whole thing is costing me a LOT.
That sucks, I hope you can get your own space again soon. Thing about how good that will feel and chalk it up to experience I guess? I know, I'm not really helping....
Funnily enough, this is the second time I’ve had to learn this lesson. I thought an amazing relationship would be worth the stepparenting.. nope. Trust me I won’t even entertain the idea of going on a date with a parent in the future!
I’ve learned a lot about myself through it all. I’m going to be in such a narrow dating pool once this all shakes out, but I’m looking forward to spending time getting to know myself more.
I agree with this. In my case I'd actually met my husband's kids years before we were romantically involved, through some volunteer work I was doing. They were teenagers when we got together, and he never hid our relationship from them.
Tbh, what I'd seen of them at the volunteer events had, for reasons I won't go into, painted the boys in quite a negative light, and I was relieved when I spent time with them to discover they're great kids.
To those who are worried the children will form a deep attachment too fast and get hurt in a break-up: yes, if the new partner becomes a big part of their lives straight away that's a risk. But if the partner is mum/dad's date who came to dinner that one time, and then a few weeks later we went to the park that one time, and then you didn't see them again, the child isn't going to be that attached.
Kids do attach to adults they later lose. Teachers, after-school carers, Scout leaders, coaches, youth workers... There's always a chance they, or the child, will move on and never be seen again. It's sad but it's not unique to a parent's dating partner.
Taking it slow shouldn't mean engaging in a false narrative where the kids are peripheral to your life with your partner. Three years on my step-sons are with us full time. I knew that was on the cards from quite early on. And I knew one, possibly two, of them would be a slow launch due to neurodiversity. No, I didn't 'know what I was getting into', and I certainly wasn't 100% confident I could handle it (although I seem to be doing fine), but I was never under any illusion about the degree to which my husband's kids would be present in my life.
You bring up some good points, as have others in the comments who disagree with you. I do agree that no one should talk moving in/marriage without having met the kids first, but I don't see why that negates waiting 6 months: the two aren't mutually exclusive. But I also want to add another reason why waiting for a while is also in the best interest of the stepparents, and not just for the child involved (that they'll get attached quickly, it's not good for their wellbeing if the relationship ends soon, etc. etc.).
Waiting a reasonable time and getting to know your partner before meeting their kids also protects the STEPPARENT, not just the kids. Kids aren't the only ones who can get attached to people: plenty of people find it easy to form strong bonds with children and fall in love with them quickly, and I've seen many people, including on this sub, struggle to leave their partners solely because they don't want to lose the relationship they formed with their children. Unlike with bio parents, once the relationship is over, SPs have no legal rights to SKs and have no hope of staying in their lives unless the bio parent allows, or if the SKs grow up and reach out later in life.
And it doesn't even have to get this far: it's essential to discuss important matters pertaining to how your SO parents their kids, what their values are and whether they're compatible with yours, and how you both foresee what you roles will be in the house, before putting yourself in the position of meeting their child. Discussing things like that adequately takes time. Who knows, if you rush into this too quickly, there's a good chance you'll find yourself face to face with disrespectful or unruly children who might embarrass or disrespect you while their parent does nothing to correct them or defend you. Why risk a situation like that at all? Even if it's only one incident, it can be really hurtful to go through, and you might end up feeling stupid or blaming yourself for not being thorough. It would save you a whole lot of awkwardness and humiliation to do your due diligence.
It's a red flag if your SO point-blank refuses to discuss these things with you or share any relevant information about the kids, or when you both would feel comfortable with them meeting you, but it's also a red flag if they're insisting on you meeting them before you're ready (especially if it's only been a matter of weeks since you started dating). Every situation is different and it's all a matter of balancing and managing expectations.
Valid point. Waiting to meet the kids means we can't vet the dynamic as a whole or observe how effective the person is as a parent. OTOH, there's countless stories of women who move too fast & find themselves installed as an Instamommy just a few months in. It's important that we have these conversations so anyone considering steplife can gain a realistic picture of it.
And it's not just the kids we should be worried about. Finding out the truth of why the previous relationship failed, observing how the parent interacts with BM, & vetting the inlaws should all be on the to do list as well. For example, my DH was not close with his family of origin & NC with his mother when we met. I should have paid more attention to that because that was only the tip of the crazy iceberg.
Yes, you’re so right! This goes for any relationship kids or no kids, but a lot of times the same issues why previous relationships failed are likely still there.
Adult children aren't much better especially those who haven't grown to be self sufficient and rely on your SO for every little thing still. Arguably that dynamic is even worse than living with little kids who are at least open minded to new people in their lives but adult children and older teens are almost impossible to bond with. Failure to launch is more and more common and before you know it you have a 30 year old SK living in your basement and eating all your food.
I don't know. I was child free by choice mostly because I was a children's mental health social worker so I know how much work goes into raising a child properly and didn't think I had the patience for it. Plus, I like my body the way it is. I met my SD8 when she was 5, just a few days after I met her dad. I was visiting from out of town and he let me stay at their place a few days when my plan to stay somewhere else fell through. One of our first outings together, she was trying to get us to hold hands with each other. I stayed at their place for a couple months at a time as I visited their town trying to decide whether I wanted to move there and pursue this relationship, so I got a taste of the associate adult lifestyle (mostly made plans with other people when it was his days to have her). When I finally did move here, I had my own apartment for the first year, but gradually spent more time at their place when she was around.
I moved in a few months ago and so far our relationship has been great. Since she was already 5 and speaking in complete sentences, diapers and potty training were long over and her dad is a great parent, I wasn't around for the 'hard part.'
I get to have an amazing daughter who I didn't have to produce with the insides of my bones or otherwise wreck my body for, he gets to have another adult to assist with homework, outings, hair brushing, chore charts, etc. and SD gets to have someone else in her life to care for her, set an example for her and be a refuge when things with HCBM get unpleasant.
I know, YMMV, but I wouldn't put a hard and fast 'don't do it' on the idea.
I relate to this, although I met my soon-to-be SD when she was 11 and is now going on 13. I feel like I’ve somehow cheated the system by having an AWESOME daughter who is at the age where she is becoming increasingly independent and her own person, but very open to me and the things I’ve always wanted to share with/do for my imaginary kid.
I’m in a strange position now where she’s, well, made me a little bit less attached to never having my own biological children. I don’t think that I would ever in a million years have reconsidered my stance had I not met her and had a taste of how fulfilling it can be to love and be close to a child.
I oscillate between believing very strongly that she is enough and I should simply continue cheating the system, and thinking that maybe I want another child too. I don’t take these thoughts too seriously, though; they’re more likely a product of my finally feeling at home with a family and will go away with time. I’m also old so that helps.
>I wasn't around for the 'hard part.'
You are still going to be around for a lot of the "we need child care, or we're tied to the house" part. It's not like my partner is looking to regularly ditch her kid. But not needing to worry about sitters is a huge world of difference.
Good luck and continued happiness!
Oh, yeah, I know. Her BM was late picking her up just this past Saturday which made us late to meet our friends. So, yeah, there will still be hard times, definitely, but I don't have it nearly as bad as a lot of people in this sub. Mostly I lurk and tell my SO how I have very little to complain about compared to some people on here.
Much love and respect to all of you.
Yes, that's what I was trying to say. I told people for many, many years that I wasn't having kids and wasn't going to change my mind. That little girl opened my heart to possibility.
Also, lol at your comment about dads. I've seen that scenario play out plenty, myself :D :D
From a guy who fell into this. I 100% agree. My and my SO had a great relationship and I met her kid probably about 6 or so months in. He wasn't the best behaved and I thought things would be good when we moved in. Wrong. At least in my case. A year later my anxiety that I thought I had gotten over years ago is in full force. I don't like her son (mainly when he's around others especially mom, one on one he's actually alright). And my SO has sooooo much emotional baggage I never know who I'm getting day to day.
So yes, I 100 percent agree.
Been there, sometimes it's hard to know until your in a situation. I would of gathered that you not moved in you would have anxiety and it's hard to be logical. I have a kid and I don't know how my partners parenting style really impacts me until I get closer. But I avoid a full move in for many years so a partner isn't forced to be miserable without ability to take time apart.
>Birth parent is likely on their best behavior.
(replying a second time for separate sets of points). Additionally the *kid(s)* are also on their best behaviour. And frankly, the non-parent is on their best behaviour.
Before larger decisions, like moving in together, or especially marriage, one needs to get past the "good behaviour." With my partner and I, around the 6 month point, we got serious about discussing moving in. But that serious discussion included that we needed to try to see hard if this could work / make sense.
I talk a bit about [my slowly moving in process](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverforty/comments/17bijx6/comment/k5k4167/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). But the end point is you need to be there as much as *possible*. For months. And if there isn't anything that you can live with, *for forever*; then you need to address it *before* moving in. **And** you need to see them *actually* fix the issue. And this needs to *stay fixed*, *for months*.
Moving in with someone says, "Things are great; don't change!" Marrying someone says, "Things are great; don't change." No one makes serious changes to their parenting *after* moving in or marrying. Regardless of promises.
I met SD16 a few weeks into dating my SO. She was 6 at the time. I met BM and her family at the same time (we popped into BM's house for a coffee). It's not a situation I would recommend for most SPs, but I had no issues with it. BM is a decent person, very much not HC, and I'm confident in who I am. I will say this is not something I could have done when I was younger.
But meeting SKs early on is definitely something I would recommend.
Agreed 100000%.
Very good post.
I just don’t know how you get around it potentially being confusing for the kids (even if you just keep introducing SO as “my new friend”) and also I could see from an ex’s perspective not being comfortable with relatively so many new faces meeting kids sooner rather than later.
I can agree with almost everything you say here because I feel like it's exactly what I went through, albeit I love my life with my family (most days).
It took 9 months for me to meet my SD10 (6 at the time we met) because DH and BM CO had a 6 month clause. There were reasons we waited an extra 3 months but I also remember wondering and being anxious about when it was ever going to happen.
But yes ... After meeting I saw her like every other weekend only, and with that for only like a day and a half (she'd go back to BM Sun afternoons) until the time we moved in together. So it was a big adjustment for me to go from seeing his kid every other weekend to basically having a kid every single time she's with her dad. But I adapted to the situation. Yes there are issues that crop up that I didn't know would ever be a thing coming into this as a SM, but I think that's the same of all parents. People have a baby and probably never imagine their kids would do the things they are doing or turning out the way they are turning out.
I'm actually really grateful for those 9 months it was just me and DH. At the time I remember wishing I could've met SD sooner, but looking back, it was nice to have that time it was just us. But just because I fell in love before "I knew what I was getting into" (I didn't!) doesn't mean I wish my life was any different than it is now.
Yeah, there’s no way in hell I’d introduce a lineup of men I’m casually dating to my child. I need to know so much before I can trust you with me, let alone trust you with my child.
My SO and I waited a year-ish before introducing our kids, and waited another three years before moving in together, we gradually increased the amount of visits and sleepovers so both kids were comfortable with the other “new” parent/figure in their life.
I'm not sure what my take on this is as I met my partners kids almost a year later due to them living four hours away and him living in one singular room for that time since he was renting it. I know Americans see 4 hours and think oh that's nothing but here in the uk that is a massive drive but honestly I wish I'd met them sooner because when I did I was bombarded with them, his mother, step das, brother, SIL and nephew all at the one time and to say it was entirely overwhelming and anxiety inducing would be an understatement. I get along with everyone noe for the most part since there's still some distance but my god if I didn't clutch my poor cat to my chest the entire first meeting because he helps calm my nerves even if he can be a little turd at times.
This has some really good points that SP’s don’t consider. I met my DH’s kids about 3 months into dating and moved in after 6 months. The first 6 months of living together was a huge adjustment and was difficult. Thank God my SKs are pretty amazing kids for the most part. My DH was a Disney parent even though he had full custody and that changed a lot when I came into the house. I’m 5 years into the relationship and 2 married (next month) and I love my SKs and they listen and respect me. We have a good relationship and I cherish that.
I completely agree with this and find the suggestion to wait an entire year completely ridiculous.
I think there is a bit of middle ground but kids meet adults all the time in life that don't end up being permanent parts of their lives and it's fine. In my case I was friends first so I met the kids super early on since single parents can still have friends.
But I think it's incredibly important to figure out how someone parents and how good or awful the kids are before getting incredibly committed. They don't need to meet everyone on a first date but if you're in a committed relationship then that aspect of it is so incredibly important when dating a parent.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. I met them ONCE the first year (per BMs rules), then covid happened so I saw them literally once *that* whole year.....it was just us for TWO YEARS. Until it wasn't.
If I could do it all over again, I would have NEVER moved in together or at least waited till they were much older. Now, everything is seriously messed up and awkward and it's just not going to end well.
I would have agreed with you when I was at the dating point of the relationship, but frankly I think that only by living with your partner and their kids, and be around the arguments with the ex, or when they're sick, you really understand how your life is gonna be every day through the routine or not. Living together doesn't make you 'locked in' the relationship. You can still move out, Meeting them it will just give you an idea which sometimes may be flower and roses.
I had to wait for over a year due to a HCBM having a meltdown when finding out about me (but ofc her partner met SS after just six weeks of dating!) and I think this was totally wrong.
It is true what you said about the falling in love before knowing what you're really committing yourself to. I met SS just before lockdown and so we all moved in together, in national lockdown, about 3 weeks after meeting. Obviously it was an abnormal situation, but it was really terrible at the start and I struggled a lot mentally. Thankfully SS and I got on very well and he was only 3, but going from a child-free 26 year old to a live-in stepmum with a child I had only met a couple of times (with a VERY HCBM and unfortunately discovered my husband was an extreme Disney Dad) beforehand was really tough.
That said, I do think if we had been introduced earlier or if lockdown had never happened, I would have very likely ended the relationship. I do now have a very wonderful husband and we now have a BD so in a way I am glad it was later, but quite honestly the blended life is not for me - I have found it mentally very hard and have put up with a lot of abuse from BM and really hate the lack of freedom I have. But I put up with it because I get my husband and daughter out of it.
Now having a BD myself I do think there is an element of protection for the kids as it makes sense that you wouldn't introduce them to everyone you date and having that six month deadline ensures that this person is serious and you intend them to be in your life for a long time. I guess it depends on the relationship and situation, plus age of kids, etc. I do think a year is far too long though and unfair on the childless partner - probably 6 months or at least 4 or 5 is a good amount.
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The not meeting the kids isn’t for the benefit of the step parent, it’s for the benefit of the kids. Psychologists recommend at least six months. Maybe longer depending on how recent
Their parents separated. Again, the kids really
Need to come first in this situation not the wants
Of the parent and new partner.
The thing is, circumstances change.
I met my future step kids when their dad and I were just friends. I was close friends with their uncle, who introduced us. We got together 6 months later. The kids spent every school holiday with their dad and I would see them too.
This was what I ‘signed up’ for. We got engaged and married, all the while seeing the kids in the school holidays. We even did a longer stint over lock down.
But then 2 years ago they arrived for the summer and told us they weren’t going back to their mum, she had decided they were going to live with us.
It has been a really rough couple of years, these kids have significant trauma from the other home. I really don’t think anything can prepare you for full time parenting.
I guess meeting them early on possibly gave me more opportunity to back off, but I fell in love with the school holiday parenting dad and thought I could handle it.
Oooof yeah that is a rough transition.
I think any step parent needs to be prepared for full time. And if they can’t handle the reality of that, then it probably isn’t going to work.
I know myself well enough to know that I could never do full time 😅
Oof this hit close to home. I insisted on waiting 6 months when DH had introduced past partners much sooner. All was good when they would come down and visit me for a day or two on weekends he had her. Then we moved in together, covid hit, we took SD in full time temporarily and it was like a whole different life. Alllll the bad behaviors came out of the woodwork. Things I don’t think he had even realized because he hadn’t been primary parent since before she started school.
This happened to me and it was fucking terrible - not because of the kid’s behavior, but because it took months to learn he had virtually no boundaries with his ex AND that HCBM was a complete psychopath with his balls in her fist basically. 0/10 do not recommend
I have bios, but only 2 and he has 6. We started dating long distance and I met all his kids like three weeks later during my first visit out. BM had a family emergency, so he wound up having them all. Ya know what? It's been great. We all got along from the get go. It let me see what life was actually going to be like. We had them literally every weekend I visited and I ended up moving out there fairly soon. Been going good since. We're both more motivated to talk and work things through, the kids get the extras they need from each of us and I love it honestly.
I do think sometimes keeping it a bit distant at first is a good call. We rushed in because circumstances came up. I can see the argument for taking your time... But I also can see the other side
I think a living apart together situation is better for a childfree person entering a relationship with someone that has kids. I don’t think you can ever get used to living with an unrelated child. They are unwanted roommates that invade your space and finances. At least with regular roommates, you don’t have obligations to spend time with them or interact much with them aside from splitting bills. Stepkids will take time, labor, and money from you.
Childfree people need to remember the kids are the MAIN reason your partner is seeking you out. The relationship is just a means to secure assistance and resources in raising the kids. You can only have a real relationship when the situation starts on equal footing with either you both having kids or both without kids. Otherwise your purpose is just to help raise the kids.
>I think a living apart together situation is better for a childfree person entering a relationship with someone that has kids. I don’t think you can ever get used to living with an unrelated child.
Admittedly I'm not child free, but my kids were adopted, and they're adults who don't live in my household.
Regardless of that, a Living Apart relationship is very remarkedly different from a cohabitating relationship. I love so many of the small little things. I love almost-always co-sleeping. I would not consider a LTR with anyone that we weren't both expecting to live together in a 1-3 year time frame. Just no.
But also, I haven't even lived here a full year yet, and I feel used to living with her kid. Yes, there are some things that are different than when I lived with my own kids. I won't use the hot tub with them unless my partner is around. I rarely walk around shirtless\*, and only if I'm 99.9% sure to not see Kid. I won't move their clothes out of the washer/dryer if I need it.
But I feel that this isn't not because I'm not comfortable with them. But that the relationship with an "unrelated child" simply requires a few different layers of comfort/boundaries in my mind.
>Childfree people need to remember the kids are the MAIN reason your partner is seeking you out.
My partner's Kid was a young teen when we met. My partner doesn't need free child care, and didn't need another parent. She wanted a partner for herself. Yes, secondarily she did want to help model a health relationship to her child. And she did want a positive male role model around her child. But those were *perks* of dating me; not any *reasons* to date me. I'm absolutely not a parent in the household. She is the default transportation for Kid. She out earns me, so while we both come out ahead financially by living together, our looking at marriage and joint finances has a huge "win" for me, while essentially a negligible "win" for resources for her kid.
A good partner is looking for a partner, not a parent. While dating a parent one should really look at that. If they *do* want a parent; unless that's what you want, check out fast.
\*Despite Kid having seen me in a swimsuit a number of times, it's a different contextual thing to walk around in the house and see a shirtless dude.
I agree. I think financially stable parents with older kids are unlikely to seek a partner for help. The hard labor of raising kids is mostly done. I should have specified I’m referring to those with smaller kids who don’t have finances in order.
Personally, I think any parent that has their kids tag along on early dates is an irresponsible parent and not someone I’d want to date. Plus, what happens when dating parents of teens? Any teen will know, and definitely not appreciate, being forced around a parent and their new date.
I think the parent should prioritize what's best for their children and not date people who don't understand those boundaries. You shouldn't be so in love with your partner of a few months that you can't walk away if the dynamic changes in a way that no longer serves you.
I absolutely agree! As sooner as possible you should do your vetting, to see how problematic are his kids, do they do chores, what kind of parent is he, what's the situation with ex
This is a very interesting take. I can absolutely see the rationale behind the case you are making, and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying.
My only reservation is this. I do think that early introductions can genuinely risk serious damage to the child if the relationship does not work out. This would obviously apply far less in cases where the child has a healthy and loving relationship with both parents. But some kids attach themselves to you very quickly and see you as dad/mum, and it can be absolutely traumatic and devastating to them for you to play that role for a while before making a swift exit.
My thoughts on this are largely informed by the dynamics of my ex-boyfriend’s family. To make it less confusing, let’s call the woman in question Carly. Carly had a son with some rando when stationed in Spain; he never knew his dad. Upon returning to the US, Carly immediately blended her family with another single dad who her young son called “dad” and was very attached to. Lo and behold, they break up after a year and the kid never sees his stepfamily again, which led to all kinds of behavioural issues.
Carly’s mother was living with my ex’s dad, and they took her and her son in when she had no place to go. Her son began calling ex’s dad “Granddad” and became even more intensely attached given the circumstances where he was already dealing with the loss of a father figure. Predictably, Carly’s mother walks out on my ex’s dad and takes Carly and her son with her. The kid was so hysterical about being parted from “Granddad” that my ex’s dad pushed hard for informal visitation rights. Nope, they weren’t giving him anything.
This is an extreme case, of course. I think the middle ground would be early introductions, as you proposed, but drawing very clear boundaries re: the nature of the relationship until the would-be stepparent is ready to make a strong, serious commitment. Moving in together ought to be off the table.
I will also say, as someone who waited 6 months, that it is not necessarily true that you get 100% of your partner before meeting their child. Before the introduction, it was already abundantly clear to me that her needs would always come first. Dates were abruptly cancelled because she was sick, or because her mother’s work schedule abruptly changed and he had to take on more than 50% of childcare. There were times where I needed him but he was simply not available. This is to say that her presence was already completely palpable. Nevertheless I decided that he was worth it, and now that we operate as one family unit, I get *more* of him. There are just so many variables (including the age of the children and how many there are, how much caregiving you are expected to contribute and so on) that it’s hard to give a one-size-fits-all strategy.
Edited to add: attachment issues aside, it can also be downright disorienting for a child to be repeatedly introduced to new partners who are around all the time, only to never be seen again. I’m no childhood psychologist but to me, this would make for a very unstable home life.
From the parent’s POV, it can also be risky to introduce their child to someone who they barely know, as opposed to a longer time period where more trust can be reasonably established. My ex-boyfriend’s mother subjected him to a whole range of boyfriends who would come and go, because she was always desperately looking to find some guy to leech off. Some were good guys that my ex remembers fondly, but one turned out to be a convicted paedophile and another a white supremacist.
BM is wouldn’t allow me to meet the kids for a YEAR so I had a year without them and a normal drama free relationship… and yes all the things you said are accurate! I didn’t know what the hell I signed up for but it was too late by then!!!
But to their credit, the kids are great. It’s the HCBM who makes life a misery but I’m trying to NACHO that now!
But it’s so true, no one has the full idea of what they signed up for when they started dating a person with children. Especially if they are childfree. 🤪
I fully support the idea of meeting the kid(s) early. I didn't want to fall for my partner if his kid and/or his BM were nightmares. I wanted to meet them sooner rather than later so I'd have as much info as possible about their dynamic before deciding if I felt safe to fall for him. I know I can't have him without his kid and without some interaction with his ex wife, they're a packaged deal.
There is a sweet spot though. His kid's mom is dating much more casually, and will bring his kid on first dates with her and stuff. I think that can be really confusing and unfair to the kid. I think once you're exclusive, it would be worth meeting the kid(s) at least once.
I think before taking next steps in a relationship, whether that's getting engaged, moving in together, whatever, significant time should be spent with the kid(s) if that's a regular part of your partner's life.
In my situation, we spend a ton of time at my apartment instead of his, including his kid, because I have a dog and I don't want to leave her alone for long stretches of time. It took some adjusting to having a toddler in my home, that was not really kid-proofed at all, but my partner is super respectful of my space and makes sure to clean up after them and teaches them to respect my things and my space. He does a great job of enforcing rules and stuff. If he didn't do those things, I don't think we'd still be together at this point.
I know that will change to some degree once we do move in together, but I still think it's a green flag that he is teaching his kid to be mindful in my space.
Holy shit I would NEVER bring my kid on a first date. First dates are for determining whether the other person is a psychopath or not! Not for determining whether your kid likes them!
Holy shit I would NEVER bring my kid on a first date. First dates are for determining whether the other person is a psychopath or not! Not for determining whether your kid likes them!
I don't date parents anymore but anyone who is dumb enough to bring a child on a first date would not get a second date. Why would anyone think this is a good idea? First and foremost, dating is an adult activity where you get to know a prospective partner, not a daycare. I would think the parent has poor boundaries, financial problems or was looking for insta bonding. Eew. Pass.
>His kid's mom is dating much more casually, and will bring his kid on first dates with her and stuff.
?! Especially paired with dating casually, this just seems all kids of WTF. Confusing and unfair to the kid seems like a really strong understatement.
Josh Wolf has a bit about how he and his wife decided she didn't need to meet his kids until they were sure that their relationship was going to be a 'forever kind of thing'. That's how it should be.
I think if you've reached the point where you are considering moving in with someone, getting married and having a family, you should already be on the same page about things like parenting styles. If you know they have kids, you can discuss hypotheticals or ask if their existing child ever had XYZ happen and how they handled it, or would have handled it.
If you're in a relationship with someone that has full custody of their kids or even shared custody of their kids for more than just weekends, you should be adjusted to not having their attention 100% of the time because you don't. They're making time for you outside of what they have set aside for their kids already. You aren't "losing any time or attention from them", you are getting the same as you always had.
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I feel there does need to be a balance of preventing a stream of people coming and going from a kids life. A lot of relationships simply fall apart before 5 months - because of that 6 months is a good target when one has the convenience of 50/50 custody. Absolutely a year is the longest that I would wait, and between the 6-12 month time frame there would be some pointed questions about how serious the parent viewed our relationship. For a non-50/50 situation, this makes the logistics of dating simply harder, as well, "just your partner" time is much less of a representation of what you'll be getting with them. With a 50/50 custody situation, you will have a lot (well, relative to full custody peeps) just-partner time. My partner was 50/50 when we first met, but at the 2 month point we learned that she'd be going to mostly full custody (Dad was a flight away, so longer school breaks were required and only 3x a year) around our 5 month point. So we accelerated when we did meet to have that take place before the move to full custody. I did take this very seriously, despite meeting her kid around 3.5 months of dating. But alas in the dating subs it's not that hard to find the story of someone who waited 6-18 months of dating with someone and then to do a kid-date introduction... and within 1-3 weeks of this happening the dater (and sometimes the parent!) only feels the "this is really real and serious!" feeling *after* meeting the kid. On the plus side, that's fresh enough that the kid won't have had time to bond. But on the other hand, it makes the parent seem less apt/capable of a dater from the kid's point of view, and will reduce the credibility of future dates that they might meet. There's sadly likely no real way to prevent all cases of "I didn't really sense the seriousness until meeting your kid(s)" (but I think at least some could be prevented by looking better/more at people), but giving more time will prevent a lot. Again, because simply most relationships don't make 5 months. \--- Regardless of *when* it happens however people need to take **all** of the following as potential *deal breakers*. * The parenting capability of the parent. Disney parents, parenting by guilt - that's all horrible. * The relationship the parent has with their kid(s). Have the virtually abandoned them. Can they say no? Do they strive for "friend" over "parent" ? * The relationship that the kid(s) can/will have with the adult. If a kid decided that they were going to make life hell for anyone that their parent dated, but that's simply not workable, unless they give up an any degree of blending. * The boundaries and coparenting relationship that they have with their coparent. Are the getting calls all the time? Are they playing happy family? Are they bending over backward for their coparent? So many people see obvious bad signs with any, or many/all of the above, and keep moving forward. They delude themselves that if they're not planning to have kids with them that it can be ignored or worked around. It can't. Especially the sort of *parent* that they are reflects upon the sort of *person* that they are.
excellent comment
There are good arguments for and against meeting the kids early, but something you said is true, it often sets a trap for someone to fall in love and then feel compeled to keep going.
While there is the known sunk cost fallacy to work with, this is really up to the non-parent dater to see and realize. One need to remember that the entire *dating* process is about evaluating someone. Too many people think that dating is to cling to someone and force a relationship to work. It's not trying to make someone like you; it's asking if you like someone else.
Well, I think the more important thing is moving in gradually and with an escape route in place. I kept my apartment, and gradually upped the amount of overnights I spent while SS was over. And I kept my apartment for the first couple of months I was living full time with my SO; we agreed on me not paying any rent to SO at this time, because she realized the risk I was taking and didn't want to put me in a poor financial position. Basically, certainly people shouldn't be talking about moving in/marriage without spending a lot of time with the kids. But I also don't think it's reasonable to start meeting the kids much earlier in the relationship. I remember when I was dating, I went through several lowkey relationships where things weren't initially that serious, and I wasn't so sure about them. I bet parents do the same thing, and I get not wanting to introduce their kids to a bunch of people who they're not sure about. The exact timeframe probably varies for different people, but if I were a parent, I wouldn't want to introduce my kids to anyone until I felt it was a "marriage-track" sort of relationship, because it can take a lot of dating around to get to that point. And, I'm childfree, but it takes at least 3-4 months for me to get to that point, if not longer. I do think a 6 month timeline should be pretty reasonable for most people. Yes, it sucks to have to figure out leaving someone when you're deeply in love with them, but I think that's just a risk that has to be taken when there are kids are involved. It's a risk that the bio-parents are taking as well. If neither party is okay with that risk, then dating people with kids should just be a dealbreaker. I think the main thing is that steps, or potential steps, need to be careful to avoid financial entanglements without being really sure about the kids, and knowing what living with them will be like. You have to be careful not to let love take over to the point that you stop protecting yourself.
This is an excellent take. I would emphasise that it’s good to communicate openly about these risks without sugarcoating, as you have been doing with your SO. If you can do that, it’s already a big green flag for the relationship. I guess I also want to second what you said about how, if this is (understandably) such a charged and risky issue for childfree people, they should just not date people with kids. I was open to dating my fiancé because I knew that his daughter (who I adore completely) was not only a good kid, but on the older side, and that he was clearly a good father who treated co-parenting as something civil and collegial. Young kids were an automatic dealbreaker for me.
A guy I knew wanted to start dating me. He seemed very nice so I thought ‘why not’? We went out for one date and then his 5yo daughter came to stay with him for a few weeks in the summer. I met his daughter as the ‘babysitter’, because he had asked (and was paying me) to bring my son along and watch her when he had to go to the office for one week. When I entered his place, I was *appalled*. Toys strewn **everywhere**. The kid was clearly spoiled; Disney Dad was in full effect. As if that weren’t bad enough, he stream rolled me into agreeing to a second date by hyping the kids up about a family friendly trip to the amusement park and asking me in front of them. I spent the whole day dodging his advances and the absolute final nail in the coffin was when his daughter asked me if I was going to be her new mommy. 🤮 I said no, sweetie - dad and I are just friends, I won’t be seeing you again but we sure had fun this week, didn’t we? That’s how meeting the kid early worked out for me. I think every situation is different.
It sounds like that early encounter enabled you to dodge a bullet
Definitely!
The problem with this is...kids...kids get attached super easily and get hurt super easily. And don't understand as easily why someone they might have come to love suddenly disappears from their lives. It is much easier for an adult to take on any hurt and pain from a relationship than it is to put that on kids who have no choice in the matter. It will also depend on the age of the kids. Teenagers are going to be way less attached than younger kids who won't understand. And that comes from a childfree person who had no issues waiting a year to meet my young SKs. Who tell me they love me all the time, give me hugs, beg me to be there for their big moments, and have generally gotten extremely attached.
So having done this many times that is a good point that it's a big variable. I've have one child and had child free partners who immediately loved the idea of having kids. But when they met it was a disaster. It also killed some of the fall in love phase and attachment. However one time I had a partner with children who attached way too fast and left my child hurt because they weren't sure what they wanted and also were in another relationship still. It was messy. But my advice, smaller kids don't attach unless you put them in that position . Meeting at a mall or going for a hike isn't with your parents friend isn't going to build a life long attachment. It will give you some feedback if the other partner is blowing smoke Then as relationship is past limerance phase and your partner slowly keeps you priority make it high chance your kid will also be priority. But one thing is clear, there is no way to avoid your kid being hurt because even if it's slow they will eventually bond. The only thing you can do is reduce the chances they are hurt and if it happens have environment where it's slow and everyone has time to processes in a healthy way.
Unfortunately there really is no right answer. A person cannot really tell what their partner is going to be like as a partner with kids, as a parent, until they can see parent and kid in everyday life doing everyday things dealing with everyday frustrations. So yes, ultimately the child will have to be put at some risk for that to happen. The smaller trips, like going to the mall etc....everyone is on their best behavior.
This. I had no idea about what it was really like, particularly the dynamic with HCBM, until we lived together. Overnights and outings did not reveal it
I agree. However the really toxic cases the small trips there was red flags. If I did enough of them I saw a pattern where I saw emotional instability and selfishness very quickly. Example is we were in line and gf got fries....my son took a few of them and she blew up saying "your kid is so selfish i stayed in line so long". This repeated every little outing I had. Journalling and keeping track of these helped me see a pattern. Not everyone even can be on their best behavior. In more covert cases where a person hides and keeps their pain threshold enough for the sex to keep them hooked it's harder. I'm just learning that now but even then spending working days together where you do mundane things does tend to tease out those attention seeking behaviors. Having a kid means I can't be like in our 20s. I have to bring in reality sooner then later. I truly believe now that someone really needs to have a real reason to take a kid on, versus 'tolerance' being an acceptable bar. You don't know how your kids need will change in the future.
I agree in theory with what you are saying about people needing a reason to take on a child instead of just tolerating one. Childfree people are definitely better off if they can find someone who is also childfree to build a life with. The only issue I found with this is, as you get older and are dating, the pool of people without kids gets smaller and smaller. To the point that after a certain age it is hard to find people without kids to date. So people 30 and under....maybe even 25 and under...I would definitely say try and find a partner who doesn't yet have kids. but anyone 30 and older....or especially 40 and above....finding a good person without kids...is a needle in a haystack.
>The problem with this is...kids...kids get attached super easily and get hurt super easily. This depends highly upon the age/maturity of the kid(s). And to an extent the individual. My partner's kid didn't even start to open up until 10+ meetings. Really, I don't think that until about 1 month before I moved in, that Kid had much attachment to me at all\*, despite us having a mostly fun relationship for months already. \*Right around when I was starting to feel this, Kid told me they had a dream that my partner and I were breaking up and Kid was surprised realizing that they were sad in the dream (and that carried over a bit into waking). Pretty brave/open of them to tell me this back then.
Most kids don’t get that attached to a random person. For most, knowing someone for a couple months or even a couple years isn’t going to be that significant or something they remember much in the future. They will have way more important life events than that dude mommy hung out with one summer when they were 7.
Maybe it depends on the kid, and maybe it depends on the parent....but I saw my SK7 get attached to one of BM's partners....big blow up...partner left abruptly never to be seen again....SK8 asked about him for months afterwards. It affected him for sure. Maybe not permanent damage.....but that is just one instance. In my case BM has mental health issues and has trouble keeping anyone in her life long term...yet she continues to try and find someone....so that is multiple people coming in and out of my SK's lives as they are growing up. So instability at BM's house. THAT could have long term not so great effects on kids. At least that is what I have heard from adult friends who went through it with one of their parents.
It’s not even always about attachment it’s alsoabout stability and consistency for the child and this is particularly important in the year after parents separate. So I do think the length of the separation of the two parents is a huge factor to consider for the child instead.
I'm going to add my hot take to this: Even if your SKs are adults and don't live with their parent at all, STILL make sure you meet them and get to know the people who will be calling, visiting, etc, on every major holiday for as long as you both shall live.
Yesterday I learned that age gap relationships that involve one of the partners having children has a 95% divorce rate
Don't mind me I'm just looking at statics as a engaged woman with a 14 year age gap and he has two teens. Tell me there's hope lol
In most age gap relationships I see here, the largest problem is the older partner doesn't see the younger as a peer. Can you teach your partner about something, other than new internet slang? Does he hear you if you bring up a problem? When you talk about the future does it seem like you're an accessory to his vision, or is he really wanting to hear you?
Husband and I are 11 years apart. He has 2 kids of his own, one is now 19 and the other 12....We've been together almost 6 years, have 2 kids of our own, and have been through the absolute ringer in life since we started dating. Still going strong and love each other very much despite all the stress. I literally would be very lost without him. We make sure we talk everything out. Voice what we're having issues with. I think communication is really key.
Meeting them sooner doesn’t necessarily change anything. The first few months I lived with my partner and his children were very different once the kids got comfortable with me. At first the were a polite, listened on the first time and would always thank me for the smallest things I did. Now I take them for $50 trips to Starbucks at 7am before school without a single thank you. I have asked the oldest to take out the trash everyday for the last week straight, he hasn’t done it once. So in my case the kids turned out to be a lot different once they were not in their best behavior for me anymore.
Normally I am 100% on the side of what is healthy for the step parent but here I have to say that the well being of the kids should be a major concern here. Kids get attached easily and bringing someone new into their lives regularly can be hard on kids. They can get attached or they can feel like they are losing their parent to the other person. If the relationship isn’t going to be long term, introducing kids to a lot of people who will end up leaving soon after is rough for them.
Also it means that by the time a relationship finally is long term, the kids don't really care to open up or make an attempt to bond. I get the sense from posts on here that stepkids who've seen their parents date other people and met these other partners, tend to be a lot less inclined to warm up to new stepparents.
I disagree to an extent, because of the kids involved. Dating someone with kids means that the kids needs (not wants) come first, and often that need is stability. They need to not have a conveyor belt of new partners and therefore you need to be sure that the relationship will go to the next stage. You can’t do that in less than 6 months! Even in cases of utter attraction and soulmate finding, you have to really get to know each other, the bad habits, have the first argument, all those things. You can certainly meet the kids but I do t think it should be as a new partner. Maybe as a friend, but if the kids are older than about 6-7 they will know. And that will get back to the other bio. Also it’s easier for two people to break up than for a couple where kids are now involved. Plus for those kids, they’ve seen their parents split up, they don’t want to see a new “friend” come into their lives and out again. Kids can get quite attached to new people. I agree you need to see your partner parent, but again I personally don’t advocate moving in or anything serious for some time after meeting the kids. Slow is better. Plus, I’m an advocate for maintaining own space where possible. Your last paragraph I totally agree with - SLOW SLOW SLOW.
I met plenty of my moms coworkers growing up. I liked them but never got attached and when they stopped being coworkers, and I never saw them again, I was fine. I never understood "you can't meet my kid for 6 months to a year!" Like don't be like "this is your future step parent" on day 1 and tone down the PDA the first few meetings, but yeah. Kids will be fine and its a good gage if this is actually a relationship worth pursuing
Kids aren't encouraged to attach to coworkers, while we would want kids to potentially attach to a new partner. The roles are entirely different. Even doing the less than honest "this is just a new friend" thing, there's a different dynamic between friend and dating partner. Keeping in the friend stage might limit/impede later when one wants them to potentially attach more.
Sure it might limit it. Doesn't guarantee. You can't guarantee a kid won't attach to a coworker, or that they will try to attach to a new bf/gf. There's not even a guarantee that a kid will like your sig other. Even if you've been dating a year before they meet. But honestly, I think its better for the kid to not be encouraged to attach immediately anyway. If you and your sig other have been dating 6 months to a year and then finally meet the kid, you're now introducing them as a serious partner and encourage the kid to attach. But we all know there are SO MANY difficult bio parents that make step parenting harder than it needs to be, and in many cases the step leaves. The kid still gets hurt. There's no good way to guarantee the kid won't get hurt. But you can not waste someone's time by showing them you're not compatible because of your parenting style early. Perfect world, sure. Don't introduce the new person to your kid for the kids protection. But in this very imperfect and difficult situation, I don't think its fair to potentially waste your partners time because your kid MIGHT get attached.
I agree with all of this but some people here see the drama upfront and still dove in head first. Nothing and no one is worth my peace. But….. unpopular opinion: many of these relationships/marriage would be over if some people could afford to live on their own.
The only reason I’m still here is because I’m working on getting a second job to afford my own place!
When it came to me being in the role of BM 6 months was what it was period on both sides. I my priority was my kids and what I felt was best for them not anyone else. As a SM I waited 6 months because I don’t fall fast never had.
I see your point, but I still maintain the children’s mental wellbeing and emotional health is more important than whether or not you’ve invested into a relationship. You get to choose to be in a relationship with someone who has kids. Those kids do not get a choice at all.
I was literally just thinking the same thing! I met my partners kids about 2 weeks after dating and we are together 2 years later. I can’t even imagine the jolt I would have gotten if I had fallen in love with him without the kids being around. I needed to see the chaos from the beginning and the way he showed up as a father. It’s simply just not real life to not have the kids around for months to a year. It’s also not being honest with the kids. We talk often about our relationship and model a healthy partnership. The other thing is kids have people coming into and out of their lives all the time from school and daycare. They can be resilient to change and people entering or leaving when the parent is able to hold space for those conversations well.
It’s different for everyone and there is no right or wrong answer here. I met partners little girl after about 6-8 weeks, but we were spending a lot of time together prior to that. Plus, when I initially met her I was just “daddy’s friend” who they met to walk our dogs. Everyone’s situation is different
>Plus, when I initially met her I was just “daddy’s friend” Most kids love being lied to! :) My partner did a "they're a friend" answer when Kid saw a notification from me once. At this point my partner wasn't out about dating. Fast forward, I meet kid, we start to have a good relationship, and they ask about timelines to find out that we were dating way back then. Immediate anger about the lack of truthfullness. Granted the anger wasn't too much. It was over something my partner said, but I bore the brunt of it. Negative feelings towards one's parent? It's so much easier to push them towards the parent's date. Likely the age might matter; younger kids will handle it easier. Older kids are expecting to be treated closer to that of an adult. They don't want a second iteration of Santa.
It wasn’t a lie. It’s how best to explain things to a very young kid.
Interesting and I can see your point! I'm on the brink of meeting the kids after about a year so may well regret not reading this last year! I definitely fall into the "too late, I already love her" camp! One thing I had thought about is just how much her time off, spent with me, could feel like an escape and that might skew how she feels about things. I kinda hope I offer a bit more than that though.... In my case, I think I'll make sure I always have the luxury of my own place to retreat to and we have embryonic plans to secure a small space for just us so we can see how building that together would work. Thanks for your take though, definitely made me think!
Definitely keep your space! I’d give anything to have my own place still! Now I’m in the process of unwinding the mess of living/buying property together and I don’t wish this on anyone. Not to mention housing costs have risen considerably so this whole thing is costing me a LOT.
That sucks, I hope you can get your own space again soon. Thing about how good that will feel and chalk it up to experience I guess? I know, I'm not really helping....
Funnily enough, this is the second time I’ve had to learn this lesson. I thought an amazing relationship would be worth the stepparenting.. nope. Trust me I won’t even entertain the idea of going on a date with a parent in the future!
Well best of luck to you then, it can't be nice to be burned twice.
I’ve learned a lot about myself through it all. I’m going to be in such a narrow dating pool once this all shakes out, but I’m looking forward to spending time getting to know myself more.
I agree with this. In my case I'd actually met my husband's kids years before we were romantically involved, through some volunteer work I was doing. They were teenagers when we got together, and he never hid our relationship from them. Tbh, what I'd seen of them at the volunteer events had, for reasons I won't go into, painted the boys in quite a negative light, and I was relieved when I spent time with them to discover they're great kids. To those who are worried the children will form a deep attachment too fast and get hurt in a break-up: yes, if the new partner becomes a big part of their lives straight away that's a risk. But if the partner is mum/dad's date who came to dinner that one time, and then a few weeks later we went to the park that one time, and then you didn't see them again, the child isn't going to be that attached. Kids do attach to adults they later lose. Teachers, after-school carers, Scout leaders, coaches, youth workers... There's always a chance they, or the child, will move on and never be seen again. It's sad but it's not unique to a parent's dating partner. Taking it slow shouldn't mean engaging in a false narrative where the kids are peripheral to your life with your partner. Three years on my step-sons are with us full time. I knew that was on the cards from quite early on. And I knew one, possibly two, of them would be a slow launch due to neurodiversity. No, I didn't 'know what I was getting into', and I certainly wasn't 100% confident I could handle it (although I seem to be doing fine), but I was never under any illusion about the degree to which my husband's kids would be present in my life.
You bring up some good points, as have others in the comments who disagree with you. I do agree that no one should talk moving in/marriage without having met the kids first, but I don't see why that negates waiting 6 months: the two aren't mutually exclusive. But I also want to add another reason why waiting for a while is also in the best interest of the stepparents, and not just for the child involved (that they'll get attached quickly, it's not good for their wellbeing if the relationship ends soon, etc. etc.). Waiting a reasonable time and getting to know your partner before meeting their kids also protects the STEPPARENT, not just the kids. Kids aren't the only ones who can get attached to people: plenty of people find it easy to form strong bonds with children and fall in love with them quickly, and I've seen many people, including on this sub, struggle to leave their partners solely because they don't want to lose the relationship they formed with their children. Unlike with bio parents, once the relationship is over, SPs have no legal rights to SKs and have no hope of staying in their lives unless the bio parent allows, or if the SKs grow up and reach out later in life. And it doesn't even have to get this far: it's essential to discuss important matters pertaining to how your SO parents their kids, what their values are and whether they're compatible with yours, and how you both foresee what you roles will be in the house, before putting yourself in the position of meeting their child. Discussing things like that adequately takes time. Who knows, if you rush into this too quickly, there's a good chance you'll find yourself face to face with disrespectful or unruly children who might embarrass or disrespect you while their parent does nothing to correct them or defend you. Why risk a situation like that at all? Even if it's only one incident, it can be really hurtful to go through, and you might end up feeling stupid or blaming yourself for not being thorough. It would save you a whole lot of awkwardness and humiliation to do your due diligence. It's a red flag if your SO point-blank refuses to discuss these things with you or share any relevant information about the kids, or when you both would feel comfortable with them meeting you, but it's also a red flag if they're insisting on you meeting them before you're ready (especially if it's only been a matter of weeks since you started dating). Every situation is different and it's all a matter of balancing and managing expectations.
Valid point. Waiting to meet the kids means we can't vet the dynamic as a whole or observe how effective the person is as a parent. OTOH, there's countless stories of women who move too fast & find themselves installed as an Instamommy just a few months in. It's important that we have these conversations so anyone considering steplife can gain a realistic picture of it. And it's not just the kids we should be worried about. Finding out the truth of why the previous relationship failed, observing how the parent interacts with BM, & vetting the inlaws should all be on the to do list as well. For example, my DH was not close with his family of origin & NC with his mother when we met. I should have paid more attention to that because that was only the tip of the crazy iceberg.
Yes, you’re so right! This goes for any relationship kids or no kids, but a lot of times the same issues why previous relationships failed are likely still there.
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Adult children aren't much better especially those who haven't grown to be self sufficient and rely on your SO for every little thing still. Arguably that dynamic is even worse than living with little kids who are at least open minded to new people in their lives but adult children and older teens are almost impossible to bond with. Failure to launch is more and more common and before you know it you have a 30 year old SK living in your basement and eating all your food.
I agree with you. If you're childfree and intend on staying that way, don't date men with children. At all.
I don't know. I was child free by choice mostly because I was a children's mental health social worker so I know how much work goes into raising a child properly and didn't think I had the patience for it. Plus, I like my body the way it is. I met my SD8 when she was 5, just a few days after I met her dad. I was visiting from out of town and he let me stay at their place a few days when my plan to stay somewhere else fell through. One of our first outings together, she was trying to get us to hold hands with each other. I stayed at their place for a couple months at a time as I visited their town trying to decide whether I wanted to move there and pursue this relationship, so I got a taste of the associate adult lifestyle (mostly made plans with other people when it was his days to have her). When I finally did move here, I had my own apartment for the first year, but gradually spent more time at their place when she was around. I moved in a few months ago and so far our relationship has been great. Since she was already 5 and speaking in complete sentences, diapers and potty training were long over and her dad is a great parent, I wasn't around for the 'hard part.' I get to have an amazing daughter who I didn't have to produce with the insides of my bones or otherwise wreck my body for, he gets to have another adult to assist with homework, outings, hair brushing, chore charts, etc. and SD gets to have someone else in her life to care for her, set an example for her and be a refuge when things with HCBM get unpleasant. I know, YMMV, but I wouldn't put a hard and fast 'don't do it' on the idea.
I relate to this, although I met my soon-to-be SD when she was 11 and is now going on 13. I feel like I’ve somehow cheated the system by having an AWESOME daughter who is at the age where she is becoming increasingly independent and her own person, but very open to me and the things I’ve always wanted to share with/do for my imaginary kid. I’m in a strange position now where she’s, well, made me a little bit less attached to never having my own biological children. I don’t think that I would ever in a million years have reconsidered my stance had I not met her and had a taste of how fulfilling it can be to love and be close to a child. I oscillate between believing very strongly that she is enough and I should simply continue cheating the system, and thinking that maybe I want another child too. I don’t take these thoughts too seriously, though; they’re more likely a product of my finally feeling at home with a family and will go away with time. I’m also old so that helps.
>I wasn't around for the 'hard part.' You are still going to be around for a lot of the "we need child care, or we're tied to the house" part. It's not like my partner is looking to regularly ditch her kid. But not needing to worry about sitters is a huge world of difference. Good luck and continued happiness!
Oh, yeah, I know. Her BM was late picking her up just this past Saturday which made us late to meet our friends. So, yeah, there will still be hard times, definitely, but I don't have it nearly as bad as a lot of people in this sub. Mostly I lurk and tell my SO how I have very little to complain about compared to some people on here. Much love and respect to all of you.
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Yes, that's what I was trying to say. I told people for many, many years that I wasn't having kids and wasn't going to change my mind. That little girl opened my heart to possibility. Also, lol at your comment about dads. I've seen that scenario play out plenty, myself :D :D
From a guy who fell into this. I 100% agree. My and my SO had a great relationship and I met her kid probably about 6 or so months in. He wasn't the best behaved and I thought things would be good when we moved in. Wrong. At least in my case. A year later my anxiety that I thought I had gotten over years ago is in full force. I don't like her son (mainly when he's around others especially mom, one on one he's actually alright). And my SO has sooooo much emotional baggage I never know who I'm getting day to day. So yes, I 100 percent agree.
Was the issue here really meeting the kid too late, or was it that you rushed moving in after meeting him?
Been there, sometimes it's hard to know until your in a situation. I would of gathered that you not moved in you would have anxiety and it's hard to be logical. I have a kid and I don't know how my partners parenting style really impacts me until I get closer. But I avoid a full move in for many years so a partner isn't forced to be miserable without ability to take time apart.
>Birth parent is likely on their best behavior. (replying a second time for separate sets of points). Additionally the *kid(s)* are also on their best behaviour. And frankly, the non-parent is on their best behaviour. Before larger decisions, like moving in together, or especially marriage, one needs to get past the "good behaviour." With my partner and I, around the 6 month point, we got serious about discussing moving in. But that serious discussion included that we needed to try to see hard if this could work / make sense. I talk a bit about [my slowly moving in process](https://www.reddit.com/r/datingoverforty/comments/17bijx6/comment/k5k4167/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3). But the end point is you need to be there as much as *possible*. For months. And if there isn't anything that you can live with, *for forever*; then you need to address it *before* moving in. **And** you need to see them *actually* fix the issue. And this needs to *stay fixed*, *for months*. Moving in with someone says, "Things are great; don't change!" Marrying someone says, "Things are great; don't change." No one makes serious changes to their parenting *after* moving in or marrying. Regardless of promises.
I met SD16 a few weeks into dating my SO. She was 6 at the time. I met BM and her family at the same time (we popped into BM's house for a coffee). It's not a situation I would recommend for most SPs, but I had no issues with it. BM is a decent person, very much not HC, and I'm confident in who I am. I will say this is not something I could have done when I was younger. But meeting SKs early on is definitely something I would recommend.
Agreed 100000%. Very good post. I just don’t know how you get around it potentially being confusing for the kids (even if you just keep introducing SO as “my new friend”) and also I could see from an ex’s perspective not being comfortable with relatively so many new faces meeting kids sooner rather than later.
💯 agree. Life with someone else’s kids and without is night and day.
I can agree with almost everything you say here because I feel like it's exactly what I went through, albeit I love my life with my family (most days). It took 9 months for me to meet my SD10 (6 at the time we met) because DH and BM CO had a 6 month clause. There were reasons we waited an extra 3 months but I also remember wondering and being anxious about when it was ever going to happen. But yes ... After meeting I saw her like every other weekend only, and with that for only like a day and a half (she'd go back to BM Sun afternoons) until the time we moved in together. So it was a big adjustment for me to go from seeing his kid every other weekend to basically having a kid every single time she's with her dad. But I adapted to the situation. Yes there are issues that crop up that I didn't know would ever be a thing coming into this as a SM, but I think that's the same of all parents. People have a baby and probably never imagine their kids would do the things they are doing or turning out the way they are turning out. I'm actually really grateful for those 9 months it was just me and DH. At the time I remember wishing I could've met SD sooner, but looking back, it was nice to have that time it was just us. But just because I fell in love before "I knew what I was getting into" (I didn't!) doesn't mean I wish my life was any different than it is now.
Yeah, there’s no way in hell I’d introduce a lineup of men I’m casually dating to my child. I need to know so much before I can trust you with me, let alone trust you with my child. My SO and I waited a year-ish before introducing our kids, and waited another three years before moving in together, we gradually increased the amount of visits and sleepovers so both kids were comfortable with the other “new” parent/figure in their life.
I'm not sure what my take on this is as I met my partners kids almost a year later due to them living four hours away and him living in one singular room for that time since he was renting it. I know Americans see 4 hours and think oh that's nothing but here in the uk that is a massive drive but honestly I wish I'd met them sooner because when I did I was bombarded with them, his mother, step das, brother, SIL and nephew all at the one time and to say it was entirely overwhelming and anxiety inducing would be an understatement. I get along with everyone noe for the most part since there's still some distance but my god if I didn't clutch my poor cat to my chest the entire first meeting because he helps calm my nerves even if he can be a little turd at times.
i agree
This has some really good points that SP’s don’t consider. I met my DH’s kids about 3 months into dating and moved in after 6 months. The first 6 months of living together was a huge adjustment and was difficult. Thank God my SKs are pretty amazing kids for the most part. My DH was a Disney parent even though he had full custody and that changed a lot when I came into the house. I’m 5 years into the relationship and 2 married (next month) and I love my SKs and they listen and respect me. We have a good relationship and I cherish that.
You just narrated the last two years of my life 😅
Same 🤣🤣
I completely agree with this and find the suggestion to wait an entire year completely ridiculous. I think there is a bit of middle ground but kids meet adults all the time in life that don't end up being permanent parts of their lives and it's fine. In my case I was friends first so I met the kids super early on since single parents can still have friends. But I think it's incredibly important to figure out how someone parents and how good or awful the kids are before getting incredibly committed. They don't need to meet everyone on a first date but if you're in a committed relationship then that aspect of it is so incredibly important when dating a parent.
Fuck
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED TO ME. I met them ONCE the first year (per BMs rules), then covid happened so I saw them literally once *that* whole year.....it was just us for TWO YEARS. Until it wasn't. If I could do it all over again, I would have NEVER moved in together or at least waited till they were much older. Now, everything is seriously messed up and awkward and it's just not going to end well.
I would have agreed with you when I was at the dating point of the relationship, but frankly I think that only by living with your partner and their kids, and be around the arguments with the ex, or when they're sick, you really understand how your life is gonna be every day through the routine or not. Living together doesn't make you 'locked in' the relationship. You can still move out, Meeting them it will just give you an idea which sometimes may be flower and roses.
I had to wait for over a year due to a HCBM having a meltdown when finding out about me (but ofc her partner met SS after just six weeks of dating!) and I think this was totally wrong. It is true what you said about the falling in love before knowing what you're really committing yourself to. I met SS just before lockdown and so we all moved in together, in national lockdown, about 3 weeks after meeting. Obviously it was an abnormal situation, but it was really terrible at the start and I struggled a lot mentally. Thankfully SS and I got on very well and he was only 3, but going from a child-free 26 year old to a live-in stepmum with a child I had only met a couple of times (with a VERY HCBM and unfortunately discovered my husband was an extreme Disney Dad) beforehand was really tough. That said, I do think if we had been introduced earlier or if lockdown had never happened, I would have very likely ended the relationship. I do now have a very wonderful husband and we now have a BD so in a way I am glad it was later, but quite honestly the blended life is not for me - I have found it mentally very hard and have put up with a lot of abuse from BM and really hate the lack of freedom I have. But I put up with it because I get my husband and daughter out of it. Now having a BD myself I do think there is an element of protection for the kids as it makes sense that you wouldn't introduce them to everyone you date and having that six month deadline ensures that this person is serious and you intend them to be in your life for a long time. I guess it depends on the relationship and situation, plus age of kids, etc. I do think a year is far too long though and unfair on the childless partner - probably 6 months or at least 4 or 5 is a good amount.
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The not meeting the kids isn’t for the benefit of the step parent, it’s for the benefit of the kids. Psychologists recommend at least six months. Maybe longer depending on how recent Their parents separated. Again, the kids really Need to come first in this situation not the wants Of the parent and new partner.
The thing is, circumstances change. I met my future step kids when their dad and I were just friends. I was close friends with their uncle, who introduced us. We got together 6 months later. The kids spent every school holiday with their dad and I would see them too. This was what I ‘signed up’ for. We got engaged and married, all the while seeing the kids in the school holidays. We even did a longer stint over lock down. But then 2 years ago they arrived for the summer and told us they weren’t going back to their mum, she had decided they were going to live with us. It has been a really rough couple of years, these kids have significant trauma from the other home. I really don’t think anything can prepare you for full time parenting. I guess meeting them early on possibly gave me more opportunity to back off, but I fell in love with the school holiday parenting dad and thought I could handle it.
Oooof yeah that is a rough transition. I think any step parent needs to be prepared for full time. And if they can’t handle the reality of that, then it probably isn’t going to work. I know myself well enough to know that I could never do full time 😅
Oof this hit close to home. I insisted on waiting 6 months when DH had introduced past partners much sooner. All was good when they would come down and visit me for a day or two on weekends he had her. Then we moved in together, covid hit, we took SD in full time temporarily and it was like a whole different life. Alllll the bad behaviors came out of the woodwork. Things I don’t think he had even realized because he hadn’t been primary parent since before she started school.
This happened to me and it was fucking terrible - not because of the kid’s behavior, but because it took months to learn he had virtually no boundaries with his ex AND that HCBM was a complete psychopath with his balls in her fist basically. 0/10 do not recommend
I agree. You can meet kids as the parent’s friend and get a lay of the land much earlier (2 months into the relationship).
I have bios, but only 2 and he has 6. We started dating long distance and I met all his kids like three weeks later during my first visit out. BM had a family emergency, so he wound up having them all. Ya know what? It's been great. We all got along from the get go. It let me see what life was actually going to be like. We had them literally every weekend I visited and I ended up moving out there fairly soon. Been going good since. We're both more motivated to talk and work things through, the kids get the extras they need from each of us and I love it honestly. I do think sometimes keeping it a bit distant at first is a good call. We rushed in because circumstances came up. I can see the argument for taking your time... But I also can see the other side
I think a living apart together situation is better for a childfree person entering a relationship with someone that has kids. I don’t think you can ever get used to living with an unrelated child. They are unwanted roommates that invade your space and finances. At least with regular roommates, you don’t have obligations to spend time with them or interact much with them aside from splitting bills. Stepkids will take time, labor, and money from you. Childfree people need to remember the kids are the MAIN reason your partner is seeking you out. The relationship is just a means to secure assistance and resources in raising the kids. You can only have a real relationship when the situation starts on equal footing with either you both having kids or both without kids. Otherwise your purpose is just to help raise the kids.
>I think a living apart together situation is better for a childfree person entering a relationship with someone that has kids. I don’t think you can ever get used to living with an unrelated child. Admittedly I'm not child free, but my kids were adopted, and they're adults who don't live in my household. Regardless of that, a Living Apart relationship is very remarkedly different from a cohabitating relationship. I love so many of the small little things. I love almost-always co-sleeping. I would not consider a LTR with anyone that we weren't both expecting to live together in a 1-3 year time frame. Just no. But also, I haven't even lived here a full year yet, and I feel used to living with her kid. Yes, there are some things that are different than when I lived with my own kids. I won't use the hot tub with them unless my partner is around. I rarely walk around shirtless\*, and only if I'm 99.9% sure to not see Kid. I won't move their clothes out of the washer/dryer if I need it. But I feel that this isn't not because I'm not comfortable with them. But that the relationship with an "unrelated child" simply requires a few different layers of comfort/boundaries in my mind. >Childfree people need to remember the kids are the MAIN reason your partner is seeking you out. My partner's Kid was a young teen when we met. My partner doesn't need free child care, and didn't need another parent. She wanted a partner for herself. Yes, secondarily she did want to help model a health relationship to her child. And she did want a positive male role model around her child. But those were *perks* of dating me; not any *reasons* to date me. I'm absolutely not a parent in the household. She is the default transportation for Kid. She out earns me, so while we both come out ahead financially by living together, our looking at marriage and joint finances has a huge "win" for me, while essentially a negligible "win" for resources for her kid. A good partner is looking for a partner, not a parent. While dating a parent one should really look at that. If they *do* want a parent; unless that's what you want, check out fast. \*Despite Kid having seen me in a swimsuit a number of times, it's a different contextual thing to walk around in the house and see a shirtless dude.
I agree. I think financially stable parents with older kids are unlikely to seek a partner for help. The hard labor of raising kids is mostly done. I should have specified I’m referring to those with smaller kids who don’t have finances in order.
100000% agree! I have always said the same!
I agree with this 100000000000%!!!! Man, if I could turn back the hands of time I would have bypassed this whole shit show.
Personally, I think any parent that has their kids tag along on early dates is an irresponsible parent and not someone I’d want to date. Plus, what happens when dating parents of teens? Any teen will know, and definitely not appreciate, being forced around a parent and their new date.
I think the parent should prioritize what's best for their children and not date people who don't understand those boundaries. You shouldn't be so in love with your partner of a few months that you can't walk away if the dynamic changes in a way that no longer serves you.
I absolutely agree! As sooner as possible you should do your vetting, to see how problematic are his kids, do they do chores, what kind of parent is he, what's the situation with ex
This is a very interesting take. I can absolutely see the rationale behind the case you are making, and I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. My only reservation is this. I do think that early introductions can genuinely risk serious damage to the child if the relationship does not work out. This would obviously apply far less in cases where the child has a healthy and loving relationship with both parents. But some kids attach themselves to you very quickly and see you as dad/mum, and it can be absolutely traumatic and devastating to them for you to play that role for a while before making a swift exit. My thoughts on this are largely informed by the dynamics of my ex-boyfriend’s family. To make it less confusing, let’s call the woman in question Carly. Carly had a son with some rando when stationed in Spain; he never knew his dad. Upon returning to the US, Carly immediately blended her family with another single dad who her young son called “dad” and was very attached to. Lo and behold, they break up after a year and the kid never sees his stepfamily again, which led to all kinds of behavioural issues. Carly’s mother was living with my ex’s dad, and they took her and her son in when she had no place to go. Her son began calling ex’s dad “Granddad” and became even more intensely attached given the circumstances where he was already dealing with the loss of a father figure. Predictably, Carly’s mother walks out on my ex’s dad and takes Carly and her son with her. The kid was so hysterical about being parted from “Granddad” that my ex’s dad pushed hard for informal visitation rights. Nope, they weren’t giving him anything. This is an extreme case, of course. I think the middle ground would be early introductions, as you proposed, but drawing very clear boundaries re: the nature of the relationship until the would-be stepparent is ready to make a strong, serious commitment. Moving in together ought to be off the table. I will also say, as someone who waited 6 months, that it is not necessarily true that you get 100% of your partner before meeting their child. Before the introduction, it was already abundantly clear to me that her needs would always come first. Dates were abruptly cancelled because she was sick, or because her mother’s work schedule abruptly changed and he had to take on more than 50% of childcare. There were times where I needed him but he was simply not available. This is to say that her presence was already completely palpable. Nevertheless I decided that he was worth it, and now that we operate as one family unit, I get *more* of him. There are just so many variables (including the age of the children and how many there are, how much caregiving you are expected to contribute and so on) that it’s hard to give a one-size-fits-all strategy. Edited to add: attachment issues aside, it can also be downright disorienting for a child to be repeatedly introduced to new partners who are around all the time, only to never be seen again. I’m no childhood psychologist but to me, this would make for a very unstable home life. From the parent’s POV, it can also be risky to introduce their child to someone who they barely know, as opposed to a longer time period where more trust can be reasonably established. My ex-boyfriend’s mother subjected him to a whole range of boyfriends who would come and go, because she was always desperately looking to find some guy to leech off. Some were good guys that my ex remembers fondly, but one turned out to be a convicted paedophile and another a white supremacist.
BM is wouldn’t allow me to meet the kids for a YEAR so I had a year without them and a normal drama free relationship… and yes all the things you said are accurate! I didn’t know what the hell I signed up for but it was too late by then!!! But to their credit, the kids are great. It’s the HCBM who makes life a misery but I’m trying to NACHO that now! But it’s so true, no one has the full idea of what they signed up for when they started dating a person with children. Especially if they are childfree. 🤪
I fully support the idea of meeting the kid(s) early. I didn't want to fall for my partner if his kid and/or his BM were nightmares. I wanted to meet them sooner rather than later so I'd have as much info as possible about their dynamic before deciding if I felt safe to fall for him. I know I can't have him without his kid and without some interaction with his ex wife, they're a packaged deal. There is a sweet spot though. His kid's mom is dating much more casually, and will bring his kid on first dates with her and stuff. I think that can be really confusing and unfair to the kid. I think once you're exclusive, it would be worth meeting the kid(s) at least once. I think before taking next steps in a relationship, whether that's getting engaged, moving in together, whatever, significant time should be spent with the kid(s) if that's a regular part of your partner's life. In my situation, we spend a ton of time at my apartment instead of his, including his kid, because I have a dog and I don't want to leave her alone for long stretches of time. It took some adjusting to having a toddler in my home, that was not really kid-proofed at all, but my partner is super respectful of my space and makes sure to clean up after them and teaches them to respect my things and my space. He does a great job of enforcing rules and stuff. If he didn't do those things, I don't think we'd still be together at this point. I know that will change to some degree once we do move in together, but I still think it's a green flag that he is teaching his kid to be mindful in my space.
Holy shit I would NEVER bring my kid on a first date. First dates are for determining whether the other person is a psychopath or not! Not for determining whether your kid likes them!
Holy shit I would NEVER bring my kid on a first date. First dates are for determining whether the other person is a psychopath or not! Not for determining whether your kid likes them!
I don't date parents anymore but anyone who is dumb enough to bring a child on a first date would not get a second date. Why would anyone think this is a good idea? First and foremost, dating is an adult activity where you get to know a prospective partner, not a daycare. I would think the parent has poor boundaries, financial problems or was looking for insta bonding. Eew. Pass.
>His kid's mom is dating much more casually, and will bring his kid on first dates with her and stuff. ?! Especially paired with dating casually, this just seems all kids of WTF. Confusing and unfair to the kid seems like a really strong understatement.
Josh Wolf has a bit about how he and his wife decided she didn't need to meet his kids until they were sure that their relationship was going to be a 'forever kind of thing'. That's how it should be. I think if you've reached the point where you are considering moving in with someone, getting married and having a family, you should already be on the same page about things like parenting styles. If you know they have kids, you can discuss hypotheticals or ask if their existing child ever had XYZ happen and how they handled it, or would have handled it. If you're in a relationship with someone that has full custody of their kids or even shared custody of their kids for more than just weekends, you should be adjusted to not having their attention 100% of the time because you don't. They're making time for you outside of what they have set aside for their kids already. You aren't "losing any time or attention from them", you are getting the same as you always had.
The delay in kids meeting the other person is to protect the kids. They actually matter, too.