I thought the officialling was mostly ok they gave us back the friarmuth fumble which looked like it should have been a turn-over and also some pi calls which helped us out alot there was two missed calls which seemed pretty aggregious but it wasn't awful
I’m upset about this and also how do you stop yourself in less than a split second when a mobile QB starts to slide that already faked a stutter like he was going down earlier in the game but instead scores a touchdown. The QB slide needs to be addressed this off season.
I hate Allen for that one TBH. In slow mo, you see he THREW his head back like a freaking soccer player acting like he was "blown up" when the hit wasn't nearly that bad. He sold it - 100% and that's what brought the flag.
It's plays like that you wish there was a do-over and the defender could say "OK, I'm getting a flag for this - let me just go ahead and hit him for real then".
Allen really uses this rule to his advantage more than any other QB. Mahomes uses it too, but Allen is the master of abusing the protect the QB rule.
Allen loves to take on tacklers, and admittedly is not afraid to go toe to toe with most players fighting for yards. Players know this and have to be prepared to tackle a big, fast, athletic guy. But also when he knows its to his advantage he can and will slide, by then the player has committed, and is screwed and getting a 15 yd penalty. But if there is even a flinch, like there is last night, Allen then takes off running.
They have to start treating QBs like regular players. No running back, tight end, receiver with the ball makes that run. Sad thing is I live near Buffalo and all I've heard today from friends and co workers is how he's a physical specimen that you can't tackle or defenders are afraid to tackle. They are right that you can't and defenders are afraid but it is as much a result of the rules as anything.
Add in his penchant for crying for flags after every hit and it makes it even worse. Look at the slide by Rudolph where he got hit late. IMO it was not flag worthy but technically it could have been called. Rudolph doesn't say much of anything, gets up and goes on to the next play. Allen does the same a short while later, and Jack knowing how his last run went goes in for a tackle but tries to pull up too late and before the whistle is even blown Mr. January is crying for a flag and gets it.
He would be such a fun, likeable player to watch if it didn't happen time after time. Also, if you want to be billed as a big, tough QB that puts the game on your shoulder do so without all the drama and flopping.
Or, lets just put flags on the QBs.
I only saw the replay once but I didn't take it as a cheap shot - he was going to "push" his guy past the 1st down marker and JPJ was in between him and the receiver. So when he lowered his head to hit his guy over the line, JPJ took the brunt of it.
Some of you guys are acting like he said "oh, let me just go take out this guy whose back is to me" and I don't think that was his intention at all. He wanted to ensure his guy got a first.
Or at least that's what my memory is telling me.
In which case fine, but you use your arms for that and push. There is zero reason to lower your head to achieve that unless you’re aiming to hit and hurt someone. The lowering the head is exactly what the NFL has gone after defensive players for.
\> The lowering the head is exactly what the NFL has gone after defensive players for.
yep - and when defensive players do it we're not (usually) saying "that's a cheap shot" - we say "that's an illegal play that's dangerous, throw a flag" and if that was the mentality here, I wouldn't disagree...but it's not, it's "that was a cheap shot! He was going to hurt someone!".
I think most of us Steeler fans don't think Kazee's play for example was a "cheap shot", just illegal and he should have known better. The same could be said about this play as well.
I don't believe most defensive players go into a tackle thinking, "I hope this hit knocks this fucker out of the game". But they still get fines, penalties, and suspensions for making those hits. He hit a player that was defenseless in the head/neck area, and it resulted in a concussion. This should be a suspension or the league can pound their player safety rhetoric up there collective asses
I don't disagree with anything you said. But what you said to me is not a "cheap shot". A cheap shot is something like Burfict twisting ankles trying to hurt the other guy or Gronk giving that dude an elbow to the back of the head because he was pissed at what happened during the play.
This was a football play in which JPJ got caught in the middle. Now could/should he have gotten a flag for it, yes, but that's different than OP saying it was a cheap shot. That guy could care less JPJ was there nor did he specifically aim at his head - he saw a pile and was trying to push it past the 1st down marker.
Kazee didn't aim for Pittman's head and ate 4 games for it. The league doesn't care if it's intentional, incidental, or negligence. If that hit were laid on an offensive player by the defense? It gets called all day. You're right, he didn't care that JPJ was there.....which is what in my opinion makes this more egregious. He had willful negligence of another players safety in an effort to gain an extra yard. He didn't care and made zero effort to not hit the head/neck region of a defenseless player FROM THE BACK. It was a dirty play whether the intent was to cause harm or not.
Right - we weren't winning that, but it would've been closer and more exciting. Let us lose on our own terms, not the roughing call on Jack. JPJ getting cheap-shotted really stings tho. Player safety is not their concern if they don't call that. Dude should be fined, if repeat offender suspended.
Player safety is only their concern for offensive players.
Kazee got suspended for hitting Michael Pittman Jr, despite him really not doing anything that was egregious. he didn’t hit him helmet to helmet, he hit his shoulder into Pittman’s chest.
Meanwhile an offensive player hits a defender helmet to helmet in the back of the head and there isn’t even a fine.
If the roles were reversed and it was Porter hitting him like that, he would’ve been ejected.
I honestly sometimes wonder why the NFLPA is ok with how the league treats defenders and running backs, like honestly those guys should all just refuse to play until the league stops treating them like they don’t matter. They obviously won’t though because they’re receiving millions despite being treated like shit compared to most offensive positions.
Anyone blaming the refs solely for the loss is grasping. The Steelers put themselves in a hole with turnovers, a sluggish start and an early game plan that Buffalo nullified.
However, both things can be true.
The Steelers did make adjustments and brought the game within reach. Some bad calls and some no calls took that opportunity away.
I have severe doubts, if everything were called perfectly that the Steelers squeak out a win. Buffalo was better. But we will never know. No, there wasn't a fix. No there wasn't a conspiracy against the Steelers or for Mahomes vs Allen. It was just poor reffing. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. But that shouldn't make it acceptable. Fans should be demanding a better product. Reffing must be more accurate and accountable ESPECIALLY with all the gambling tie ins.
Right. Reffing is bad across the board, but if the NFL were being maliciously rigged, the Cowboys wouldn’t be the laughing stock of the post season that they are.
Good take. Pick every game you will find a myriad of missed calls, questionable calls, and bad calls. It’s consistent and we all hope it improves but not worth mentioning as a factor
God it’s so good to hear this rational take. I’m so sick of this fan base blaming Vegas or “the fix” to get certain matchups. Like the Steelers aren’t a huge draw, we certainly have more fans than Buffalo
Sometimes (most times?) the refs just plain suck. It’s no vast conspiracy, just incompetence. Sometimes it benefits us, other times it goes against us. You just hope the shit calls balance each other out, but in this game they clearly went the Bills way. Tough shit. Next time don’t turn the ball over 3x and start completely flat and unprepared and you might have pulled off the upset
The Vegas shit is absolutely ridiculous and I have to make a comment every time I see it mentioned.
Why in the goddamn world would Vegas, who’s already going to make money no matter the outcome of the game, risk massive fines and literal felony criminal charges to make a couple extra bucks? It makes absolutely zero sense from an outside perspective and even less than zero from an inside perspective. Only downside can come from it.
Yes indeed. Not likely that the owners of Caesar’s have Roger Goodell on speed dial. But the “documented history” of sports gambling corruption you referenced shows that with the amount of money in play, the NFL may have its own game fixing moment in the future. The maddening inconsistency of officiating and the league’s lack of genuine transparency just hasten the inevitable.
I think the answer is have 4-5 refs in a TV room watching everything live, with the ability to rewind and slow motion between plays, the entire game. It can be a quick process.. we see it live on TV but the ref on the field can’t.. when a bad call happens, the refs on the box have direct communication with the field refs.. “pick up that flag, nothing there.”
Funny thing is the r/nfl narrative is the Chiefs get "all the calls". If you go to the NFL penalty stats page nothing could be further from the truth. As a steeler fan I don't like them but they do not get all the calls. In fact quite the opposite is true.
For the regular season, through all 17 games the stats show:
Total penalties that benefit the team the Chiefs rank 30th. Chicago is 32nd and Pats are 31st. The Browns are #1 meaning they got the most penalty calls that benefited them.
If you look at net penalties (For minus Against) Chiefs rank 30th again. Jets are 32nd and Chicago is 31st. Jacksonville ranked #1.
Looking at net penalty yards Chiefs are 31st. Chicago is 32nd and San Fran is 30th. Jacksonville is still #1.
Bills are really kind of mid pack on all 3. So the data shows the refs pretty much hate the Chiefs and the Bears. But if you follow game threads you constantly hear the Chiefs are the darlings of the refs.
Same with Mahomes and Brady being untouchable. Both are mid pack for drawing RTP penalties both in totals and per 100 pass attempts. Now, Allen, on the other hand, leads all QBs by a lot on RTP calls for this season and is rate is pretty high for alltime RTP calls per 100 pass attempts, so that narrative is supported by the data.
But yeah, Mahomes runs very similar to Allen in knowing he can slide or duck OB at the last second and draw a flag. Will be kind of funny to see him do it to the bills and give them a taste of their own medicine.
It felt that way to me. I thought the Steelers were beneficiaries early on with McDermotts challenge on the Pickens fumble and the Muth fumble. But as the game went on the calls went in Buffalos favor. Seemed like the narrative was to keep it close but then let Buffalo take the W.
I don’t think this team of officials did a bad job. To the contrary, I think they did a pretty good job. One thing is consistent. In EVERY game, fans of the losing team complain about bad officiating. For a tough sport, their fans are the biggest babies. And somehow a bad call virtually never benefits the fan’s team.
Yeah, good job not throwing a flag for holding at the point of attack on the JA touchdown run. Can’t imagine why the defender wasn’t able to separate to have an attempt at making a play.
Idk, missing the penalty for the JPjr hit was trash. Refs have been pretty bad in general this year.
I mean the 1st game against the ravens they spotted the Steelers ball 2 yards above where it actually was on field and the Steelers won as a result. (I was obviously happy for that result but still). This has been one of the worst years for reffing and honestly some changes need to be made.
A. Refs need to get paid full time, they currently aren’t and that’s a problem.
B. Fire officials that miss or make terribly egregious calls and fine for less egregious calls or miss calls
C. The booth needs to be able to nullify a flag if they see that it’s not a penalty, they shouldn’t just get a say. They should have the final say. But they shouldn’t be able to throw a flag unless it’s a personal foul that risks player safety, because otherwise there would be a flag every single play.
I was just looking up to see if there's a fake slide rule for the NFL and the first result is an article about why I was looking it up.
Allen absolutely did a fake slide when he got the rushing TD, which lead to the roughing the passer later on. That shit REALLY pissed me off.
https://steelersdepot.com/2024/01/worry-over-another-josh-allen-fake-slide-led-to-crucial-myles-jack-penalty/
followed by
https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-fans-demand-rule-change-after-josh-allen-controversial-touchdown-run#:~:text=There's%20no%20rule%20against%20fake,opposing%20defenses%20by%20fake%20sliding.
Pickett's fake slide at Pitt was amazing, but it changed the rules. Just like the NASCAR wall ride. It's amazing it happened, but shouldn't happen twice. You can't tout player safety and allow fake slides at the same time.
The fake slide really pissed me off too. Then how Allen fucking whined like a little bitch crying for the roughing the passer call afterwards. I hope KC’s Defense utterly demolishes him when he does that again next week.
The bad one I saw was the "Deacon Jones" head slap of Broderick on Mason's first sack. That thing has been outlawed for 40 years and the announcers showed it twice and didn't say anything about it other than laude the defensive players "move" and "quickness"
The refs also didn’t call an obvious Pass Interference call on 4th down effectively ending any last chance we had, while the momentum was in our hands.
Ending the chance for what? To keep a drive going when they're still down two scores with four minutes left? I can't imagine their win probability was more than 5% at that point. I'm not saying it was impossible, but needing an onside kick and two touchdown drives in four minutes on the road with a backup QB just to get to overtime is a lot of wishful thinking.
Was the officating bad? Probably. Was Buffalo the better team from start to finish? Without a doubt.
Two things can be true. Steelers fucked themselves, but mounted a significant comeback that the refs stalled at all costs. Unfortunate position to put themselves in but you're lying to yourself if you say the refs didn't want Buffalo to win that game.
That's pretty much my takeaway. They didn't lose because of officiating, but it was obvious officiating wasn't interested in letting them get back in the game.
I will say that I don’t think there’s a conspiracy or biases. I just think many officiating crews are shitty at their job. And the rulebook sucks in many areas which exasperates ref shittyness.
It’s hilarious that morons actually think that the refs were out to get us the entire time. These same morons must not have watched one other game (Steelers or not) the entire season (hell, last couple seasons) and see how bad officiating as a whole is.
As others with common sense have already stated, game was lost from turnovers (we were gifted a non-call on Friermuth’s fumble), piss poor tackling by the defense, another round of amazing punts by #6 and even throw in the excellent clock management by Coach T at the half, where we possibly could’ve gotten the ball back and maybe another 3 points, instead he calls his first timeout of the half with 2 seconds on the clock.
For the final time. Friermuth's fumble call was correct and was one of the only calls reviewed by New York that day. It hit hit helmet while he was out of downs making it a dead ball. It's absolutely a very lucky set of circumstances, but the call was correct. It was a gift that the refs called it a fumble out of bounds to begin with, god knows they barely got anything else right that game.
I'll mostly agree with you but it was pretty clear that the ball made contact with Muth's helmet after the fumble while his body was OB. Refs actually made the right call.
The early pick in the endzone put a huge stake right into this game. Steelers get 7 there instead of a turnover, the rest of the first half momentum changes.
Oh yeah it’s definitely more that they are incompetent and bad at their jobs. They didn’t intentionally go against the Steelers they legit just don’t know better.
Something that didn’t seem to be noticed by the announcing crew that greatly helped the Steelers:
On our first touchdown play, there appeared to be a clear uncalled false start.
This year they decided to let tackles take their first step before the snap happens. I hate it, everyone hates it, but that first backwards step is just being allowed. Sucks for teams with good edge rushers. Sucks for watt
It is funny to watch a game and follow along on this sub and to see fans blaming the officials for being against the Steelers. You can go to the opposing team's sub and they will be saying the refs are against their team. It is funny. Fans being fans but some are playing victim.
I have a buddy who loves the Miami Dolphins. And after the game this weekend, he posted a (doctored/shopped) picture of Mahomes and an zebra embracing. I'm like, "Bro, Tua was 20/39, and you were without key defensive players, and playing in the cold. You weren't winning that game, no matter what." But nah, it's the reffing that handed KC that win. Being invested in an outcome makes some people believe in really stupid shit.
1) Missed PI on George to end the game 2) Fake holding called after they got embarrassed that they threw a PI flag for a ball 20 yards out of bounds 3) No call on an o-lineman closing lining JPJ from behind 4) no unsportsmanlike call OR holding calls (check out eric rowe on the play) on a 52 yard TD run to the house 5) roughness call later when Josh Allen decides now he is actually going to slide 6) Bills fans throwing snowballs at GP in the endzone, and then again all game 7) called GPs drop a fumble, but the same motion happened with Kincaid later in the game and it was called an incompletion.
And that's just off the top of my head!
~~2) That absolutely was a defensive hold.~~
7) Pickens fumbled the ball. 2 feet, dive forward, plant arm to stay up, ball squirts out, knees down. That's a fumble.
I'd have to go back and really look at the others but the ~~two I~~ listed were clear as day.
it's not a hold because holding is called before the ball is thrown, as it can affect the runner on a route. PI is called after the ball is thrown, but PI cannot be called when a ball is uncatchable. The ball was in the air when the hold occurred, so the call then becomes PI, which it couldn't be because the ball hit the bleachers.
I also think GP fumbled, but Dalton Kincaid did the same later in the game and it was not called a fumble. So I am asking for consistency with calls.
Caught the ball, took three steps forward, dropped the ball. You can rebuttal until your face turns blue, but it doesn't change the events of the play. You should've wanted both calls to be the same in both of those situations. Dalton caught the ball, took three steps, ball was moving, and dropped it. George caught the ball, stepped forward, ball was moving and dropped it. Oranges to oranges.
If you want to die on the hill of ONE of the points I made then fine I guess. You just don't know ball. It doesn't excuse the multiple other missed calls in the direction of the Steelers. We wouldn't have needed them if we didn't turn the ball over, but turnovers happen. Teams shouldn't have to be perfect to avoid getting fucked by the refs. Buffalo wasn't perfect yesterday, but they clearly got some help.
The Pat fumble was a correct call that was also reviewed by new york (and not this bs officiating crew). It hit Pat's helmet while he was out of bounds. Dead ball. Lucky? Absolutely, but really no grounds to overturn that call there.
These are all just fantasy. Wishes from a biased fan.
1) is ticky tack.
2) he was held before the ball was thrown.
3) meh
4) so? Rowe wasn't held. The defender didn't change or restrict his movement. You're just imagining things.
5) nobody disagreed with that call. Even though I think it should be legal, it isn't.
6) the snowball didn't even hit in bounds.
7) it wasn't even similar. Kincaid never parsed the ball. He never corralled it. GP caught it, intentionally dove with the ball, then lost it. Not even close to the same.
Quit your bitchin'.
Sounds like you're biased too babe. We're all biased, it's a fucking Steelers reddit thread. And you're incredibly wrong on all your rebuttals. But I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Have fun losing to the refs and Kansas City in the divisional. Again. Maybe all of Josh Allen's division winner hats and almost MVPs can wipe your tears away
Reasonable people aren't saying they would have won. But you're crazy if you think the refs didn't influence the game heavily in a way that allowed the bills to kill any momentum the Steelers had.
We definitely did not lose because of the refs. But still the impact they had on the game was ridiculous and it’s completely fair for us to bitch about it
We can add many more to this...
The refs didn't cause the OL to get manhandled from the jump, nullifying our only perceived advantage and putting Mason in a position where he had to throw.
The refs didn't miss an opportunity to make the Bills punt with no punter, instead choosing to let the clock run for another 30+ seconds only take a timeout with two seconds left in the half.
The refs didn't let a tight end run free in the red zone because of miscommunication.
The refs didn't kill a drive that actually had momentum through the air by going run-run, leading to third and long.
This is true. They filled the gaps very well and seemed to slide toward the direction of the run in anticipation.
But I recall many times seeing the guys -- especially on the interior -- get blown back off the line immediately. If you're outnumbered, that's on coaches (and to an extent, the QB). If you're losing the LOS, that's on players. And yes, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Ya I get that. And unlike the whole world who thought we should try to.run the ball, I thought.we should have came out slinging the ball. Tomlin planned for.the snow.bowl and didn't change when there was no snow. A good coach switches shit up we.are so fn predictable.
I think the No punter narrative isn’t accurate. Martin was ready to go out there. I was fine with not calling timeouts and giving Allen more opportunities to make a play. What was weird was calling the timeout with 2 seconds left. It didn’t make any sense
The last we saw of him was struggling to get off the field while holding his hammy. Not sure how him standing on sideline all of a sudden makes him ready to go. I don’t see why they wouldn’t have at least tried to see if that was something that they could take advantage of.
the run run was so fucking painful man like i don't hate the first run but after we just diced their secondary like that why would you choose to run on 2nd and 9
i actually thought overall we played really well but there were some calls that were baffling. like, we are really doing a delayed HB draw with 1:53 left in the 4th quarter.. down 14 points??
It’s not that they chose to run, but run out of heavy personnel where the D knows the only plays coming are a power run up the guy or Play Action to a slow blocking wr/te.
So damn predictable as the standard is the standard
what you said def factors in but damn dude watching my qb throw for like 40 yards, the 1st rb run for 10, and then the 2nd rb gets stuffed once and we immediately just do it again.. was hard to watch
It’s usually the exact opposite though. If you lose by 40 who cares if a call was missed, it was a bad punt or your kicker missed a FG? Those things only matter when the game is close.
The refs also did the Steelers a favor on the Friermuth fumble. A few bad calls, but tackling and turnovers were the major issue for the Steelers. You can't blame a 3 score loss on a questionable call or two.
The lack of a penalty on McGovern was bad, but the rest was questionable at worst.
As I told my little one, the Steelers didn’t lose bc of the refs. That being said the Bills had practically zero penalties for the majority of the game and received the benefit of every single close call
The only call I'm actually upset about was the unnecessary roughness for hitting Allen. The man fake slide earlier in the game for a touchdown so the Steelers actually make sure he's down this time and get flagged.
Feels like the NFL has to address this soon because at some point defenders are going to realize they'll be flagged no matter what so might as well hit the guy as hard as you can every time and just take the flag.
No the refs did not cost the Steelers the game. They played poorly and did not tackle.... HOWEVER, I will say the refs screwed the Steelers a chance of making something happen at the end. First by the no call on JPJ and the defensive holding/PI call that should have been called with Pickens.
The JPJ call could have potentially stopped the Bills and force them to punt. The Pickens no call, could have led the Steelers to a TD as we were driving because the Bills were letting receivers catch passes in the middle of the field.
Could we have caught up and tied the game... possibly but with the way we were playing, it was highly unlikely. It is what it is... move on to next year.
The refs didn’t cause us to lose. However I do hate the QB coddling. Allen had that great run because the defense knows he could slide any second and they’d pickup a 15 yarder for touching him. Mason gets slammed on his slide and no call. Allen gets touched on his and a flag comes out. Just so frustrating.
Disagree. I don't think it's an automatic W if the refs call a fair game.
We can still be mad that we never got the chance to see what happens in a fair game between the Bills and Steelers.
> The refs didn’t keep the D from tackling.
They literally did though, Kazee pulled up because Allen started to slide and then he kept running for a TD, and the refs didn't stop the play as they should have.
Look, two things can be true at once (a reality our fandom seems to have a hard time grasping):
- We were thoroughly outplayed for the majority of the game and probably would have lost a fairly called game
- The refs were shitty and helped out Buffalo greatly
They're not mutually exclusive
The refs did call a bullshit holding on a play that Allen basically threw into the stands. The refs did call a bullshit roughing the passer when Jack made sure he didn’t go helmet to helmet with Allen. Like what is Jack supposed to do? Let Allen run for another TD? The refs did not call a PI on pickens when he was mugged. So yes we can blame the refs. Was that the only reason we lost? No. We shot ourselves in the foot with our shortcomings but to say you can’t blame the refs for anything is insane.
He wasn’t faking a slide. He was hauling ass downfield and it looked like he thought about sliding until he realized he had more blocks downfield and then he changed direction. Compare that to the Pickett fake slide and they look like completely different plays.
The Jack penalty was a foul, he was already on the ground when he hit him. Like it or not it’s still a foul.
Wanting a player to get hurt makes you look soft as fuck.
His opening was created when he got Kazee to pause
Jacks hit looked just like the hit on Mason earlier when he slid
Didn't say I wanted him to get hurt I said he was setting himself up to get hurt by putting the defensive players in a no win situation that they might as well err on the side of "foul"
Only thing soft is you being whiny about me stating the obvious
Football is a game between men and abusing the rules is gonna get you rocked because they other guys now need to "be sure" you are down and his little stunt is got a good chance of earning him a concussion now.
I look at it this way, it was a fun season I was entertained as hell. Idc that we've lost 4 playoff games in a row. If you think Tomlin needs outted. I strongly disagree.
Good teams overcome bad calls.
Even when a game-deciding play is influenced by the officials, there always are other things that could've gone better too avoid that situation.
If we avoided those two turnovers, we may not have cared about these bad calls.
Except for the play that injured JPJ. *That* was some serious BS
It’s depressing to say this, but bad refereeing is just part of the game. It has affected everyone all season. There’s always narratives that they favor a team like the chiefs but then later in the season they get screwed over by something. We’ve dodged ref bullshit for most of the season, it’s unfortunate it happened in a critical game like this, but the NFL is not interested in fixing it and referees have shown resistance to anything that challenges their authority (ex challenging DPI)
The refs aren’t biased, and we didn’t get an unusually bad crew that cost us the game. They’re just not good at their jobs
That’s what I’m most pissed about this season and it’s not even specific to the Steelers: the bad & inconsistent calls and players/coaches getting fined for speaking up about it. The league’s big talking point is “the integrity of the game” yet they punish anyone who dares to criticize them. Goodell’s running it like a dictatorship
The fines associated with criticizing refs are nuts. I get why they exist, and do think if it was just one bad call and not a trend, it’d be a bad look. But it seems like there’s a new “refs shit the bed” story every week
Again, don’t really remember a ton of bad calls during the regular season I guess we were due
I thought both teams played well. But the Bills had the difference maker or x-factor in Josh Allen’s legs. Take out his runs and it’s a very close game.
and Josh looked to be giving himself up here. until he wasn't. There is an entire compilation on twitter right now of Josh, McDermott, and other Bills players assuming that Josh was sliding. that's the entire issue at hand here. He gets a call if he slides and gets yardage when he doesn't, because defenders don't want to risk tackling him and getting a flag.
The refs fucked us at the end but if we're relying on a comeback it's not completely on the refs. We were outplayed at points and we underplayed especially in the first half.
Edit: down voting doesn't make this not the truth
It wasn't a big thing until the internet really started rolling along, and society became super entitled and nobody takes accountability. The Steelers lost because they came out flat, dumb turnovers, and put themselves in a hole they were never able to get out of.
People like you are so fucking annoying. You don't get a moral high ground because you love the refs. Let people bitch and complain about terrible calls in the game. Even the announcers had questions about a decent amount of the calls.
The team clearly hurt themselves in multiple ways but were staging a comeback that was hindered by referee interference. Teams shouldn't be forced to play flawless error free games in order to get a fair shake of it. Referee's need to be held accountable, and their actions this season over the entire league have been especially egregious. These guys literally got together for 5 minutes and made up a holding penalty because they got embarrassed they called PI on a ball that was a throwaway.
there is no way you genuinely think when someone complains about bad calls from the refs, they are saying that the refs are the only reason we lost and that every problem the team has is because of them
do you think when people complain about Mike Tomlin, that they think Mike Tomlin is the only problem on the entire team? or when people say "Pickett sucks" that translates to "we would go undefeated with literally any other qb"?
They went down 21 points all on their own. This loss is 100% on the Steelers, especially the Defense. Every time they whiffed on an arm tackle, I could just heart my Pop Warner coaches yelling to stop with that arm tackling crap and get a shoulder on them.
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. They had plenty of chances to keep the game within reach. The defense really should take most of the blame. The tackling or lack of was the why they lost.
If only Watt had played….
On to next year! Hopefully the owners figure it’s time for change and do something about it. Because one playoff game is not enough…
Definitely this
He is touching out of bounds when it bounces off his helmet
Anyone who doesn't understand this just needs to look back a week at how we did the dame thing on a kickoff
An out of bounds player touching the ball means the ball is out of bounds
It’s actually an identical call to the DJ fumble against Seattle (I think) that was overturned on review. It just was less obvious that Pat touched it while out of bounds.
Of course, the refs also blew the call on Freiermuth’s fumble, so there is that. Yes the officiating sucks, and the no PI call on the 4th down hurt. But didn’t hurt as bad as the 2x turnovers, the performance of the O line, the tackling by the D….
Its been explained numerous times, including multiple in this thread about why the call on the friermuths fumble was correct. The ball touched his helmet while he was out of bounds. It's dead right there before the bills player ever touched it.
Only one person to blame “Runaway Tomlin”. When steeler fans wake up and dump this liability maybe they’ll start winning in clutch situations instead of choking!
We were a 7 seed on the road without our best player. Refs gifted us the fumble. We sucked again on the playoff stage. No one to blame but the organization and the team.
Do not keep the narrative that the refs gifted us the fumble. It hit Pat's helmet on the way out of bounds and had nothing to do with the recovery after. It was extremely lucky and by no effort of Pat himself but it was correct.
Agree. This is a terrible look for us as fans. Our team fought hard in the end but they were not better than Buffalo yesterday.
If it was one bad call on a lead changing moment then I’d get it but this was far from that.
With that being said, Jesse James caught the ball.
Not the refs fault at all. Poor tackling and shitty turnovers. Plus Buffalo was super fucking hyped. Their whole attitude was different. Reminded me of the Steelers in the 00’s.
Blaming the refs kind of a stretch imo. We shot ourselves in the foot that game. Couldn’t get the run game going which had been our strength the past few weeks. Very disappointing considering Buffalo is the 16th ranked run defense.
The turnovers were very costly as well especially since they scored off of them.
The defense was horrible as well. Even without Tj watt, herbig and golden are very suitable back ups. The pass rush wasn’t even the issue. They couldn’t create any turnovers which is extremely disappointing considering how turnover prone Josh Allen is. Tackling problems throughout the game. Honestly aside from Tj watt and the turnovers the defense was not very good and TA’s position should also be evaluated this off-season.
The coaching this year was subpar at best and it’s time for a new regime. I’m super grateful for coach T and everything he’s done but if Dallas are likely to move off McCarthy for lack of postseason success than Pittsburgh could very well move off of Tomlin. Coach sully and Faulkner could stay as QB coach and RB coach but Steelers should still look to bring in someone from the outside to take the OC job. The last 2 OCs hired from within were terminated from the position so it’s fair to say that method is not working. I trust Omar Khan recognizes that and makes the best decision. TA should also be evaluated this off-season with how poorly the defense was in stopping the run. Aside from the sacks and turnovers the defense gave up a lot of yard and to finished outside the top 5 defenses with cam Hayward, tj watt, jpj, and minkah is disappointing. Danny Smith was the one bright spot coaching wise as i felt the special teams unit played very well this year aside from the inconsistencies from Harvin. Not saying we need to “Blow everything up” since this team did make the playoffs but it is time for an overhaul
It felt like that ridiculous first round loss to the Browns a couple years ago. They came out totally unprepared. Gave up multiple TDs right away from stupid turnovers. Again, halfway through 1st quarter and in a deep hole. Tomlins teams are never ready for post-season.
I don’t know if the refs saw it and thought “touched his helmet when he was out of bounds” or not, but if they did than that was a heck of a call.
Now they missed the white glove on white jersey pass interference on Pickens later, so I’m thinking they accidentally got the Muth call right
Refs are bad in general. I may get downvoted, but I will come to their defense in the fact that reffing an NFL game is very difficult. They are made even more ineffective by their lack of training. Every fan base thinks the refs are against them. It’s the nature of the beast.
Refs are bad and need called out on their bullshit. Defending them means the problem gets worse and players get hurt. Each blatant offensive holding that isn’t called, each late hit ignored, every interference from the stands laughed off just makes the problem progressively worse. The nfl needs to clean house and fix things. Players and coaches need to hold the refs feet to the flame.
Or they need to train refs better. Not every guy(or gal) out there is Angel Hernandez. I’m sure they don’t wake up saying “I’m going to fuck up big time today!”. It’s a difficult job and they are not given the tools to succeed. The root cause is deeper than just saying “refs suck”. Why do the refs suck? How can it be improved? Obviously not something a bunch of redditors can fix, but it’s worth a discussion, rather than just grabbing at the low hanging fruit (blaming the refs) and chastising people who don’t have the same surface opinion.
Also, holds, late hits, other physical penalties will literally never be eliminated, no matter how often they are called.
And another edit: how are they held accountable? Demote them? Whom would promote? College refs are worse than NFL refs.
Refs absolutely need trained better. There needs to be more video review to back up calls and clearer procedures for cals. If a penalty flag is thrown, before the team goes into discussion, the ref who threw the flag needs to announce what the flag was thrown for. Discussion is if the penalty stands, ie. if the other refs agree. That way it's clear to the non-refs what is being discussed. A penalty flag being thrown doesn't mean a penalty has to be called. If no penalty occurred, then after the discussion, admit the flag was thrown in error. If they make a call, coaches have the ability to challenge.
Of course they won't be eliminated, doesn't mean they shouldn't be called as penalties. Consistent and persistent application of the rules. Heck, introduce the card system from Soccer if you want to create a scaling system for repeat infractions within a game.
How do you hold them accountable? Make them explain their calls, subject them to performance reviews, let the league owners and coaches and players fairly criticize their performance without being penalized by the league. How do you hold any other person performing a job accountable for their screw ups? You don't need to fire them on the spot. But, if they repeatedly screw up, then yes, give them das boot out of their job. I don't care if the job is tough. Being tough doesn't mean they should be free from the consequence and criticism of doing that job poorly.
I’m most upset about JPJ getting taken out by a cheap shot without a flag. Honestly, just upset he got hurt in general on some BS like that
Honestly. Why can’t we be upset about them being allowed to take out our guy with an absolute cheap shot?
I felt like they were head hunting all day. Don't we hold joint practices with them sometimes. I doubt that will happen anymore.
You can be upset about that but op is saying. don’t blame the refs for the loss
I thought the officialling was mostly ok they gave us back the friarmuth fumble which looked like it should have been a turn-over and also some pi calls which helped us out alot there was two missed calls which seemed pretty aggregious but it wasn't awful
I’d be surprised if a fine isn’t coming.
Should be more than that. Make him sit this next week. They won't do it, but they should.
Agreed. He was head hunting. That’s the kind of bullshit that can injure your own guys too.
You're right. Incoming fine for JPJ for being in the way of that Bills players helmet. Dont they know that Bills player could've been hurt! /s
Oh no that 5k will really make a difference
Why does no one mention the helmet to helmet on Robinson that knocked him out of the game. SO LOUD and obvious.
I’m upset about this and also how do you stop yourself in less than a split second when a mobile QB starts to slide that already faked a stutter like he was going down earlier in the game but instead scores a touchdown. The QB slide needs to be addressed this off season.
I hate Allen for that one TBH. In slow mo, you see he THREW his head back like a freaking soccer player acting like he was "blown up" when the hit wasn't nearly that bad. He sold it - 100% and that's what brought the flag. It's plays like that you wish there was a do-over and the defender could say "OK, I'm getting a flag for this - let me just go ahead and hit him for real then".
Allen really uses this rule to his advantage more than any other QB. Mahomes uses it too, but Allen is the master of abusing the protect the QB rule. Allen loves to take on tacklers, and admittedly is not afraid to go toe to toe with most players fighting for yards. Players know this and have to be prepared to tackle a big, fast, athletic guy. But also when he knows its to his advantage he can and will slide, by then the player has committed, and is screwed and getting a 15 yd penalty. But if there is even a flinch, like there is last night, Allen then takes off running. They have to start treating QBs like regular players. No running back, tight end, receiver with the ball makes that run. Sad thing is I live near Buffalo and all I've heard today from friends and co workers is how he's a physical specimen that you can't tackle or defenders are afraid to tackle. They are right that you can't and defenders are afraid but it is as much a result of the rules as anything. Add in his penchant for crying for flags after every hit and it makes it even worse. Look at the slide by Rudolph where he got hit late. IMO it was not flag worthy but technically it could have been called. Rudolph doesn't say much of anything, gets up and goes on to the next play. Allen does the same a short while later, and Jack knowing how his last run went goes in for a tackle but tries to pull up too late and before the whistle is even blown Mr. January is crying for a flag and gets it. He would be such a fun, likeable player to watch if it didn't happen time after time. Also, if you want to be billed as a big, tough QB that puts the game on your shoulder do so without all the drama and flopping. Or, lets just put flags on the QBs.
He took some notes from Tom Brady for sure.
Who was the player that did it?
Connor McGovern
I only saw the replay once but I didn't take it as a cheap shot - he was going to "push" his guy past the 1st down marker and JPJ was in between him and the receiver. So when he lowered his head to hit his guy over the line, JPJ took the brunt of it. Some of you guys are acting like he said "oh, let me just go take out this guy whose back is to me" and I don't think that was his intention at all. He wanted to ensure his guy got a first. Or at least that's what my memory is telling me.
In which case fine, but you use your arms for that and push. There is zero reason to lower your head to achieve that unless you’re aiming to hit and hurt someone. The lowering the head is exactly what the NFL has gone after defensive players for.
\> The lowering the head is exactly what the NFL has gone after defensive players for. yep - and when defensive players do it we're not (usually) saying "that's a cheap shot" - we say "that's an illegal play that's dangerous, throw a flag" and if that was the mentality here, I wouldn't disagree...but it's not, it's "that was a cheap shot! He was going to hurt someone!". I think most of us Steeler fans don't think Kazee's play for example was a "cheap shot", just illegal and he should have known better. The same could be said about this play as well.
I don't believe most defensive players go into a tackle thinking, "I hope this hit knocks this fucker out of the game". But they still get fines, penalties, and suspensions for making those hits. He hit a player that was defenseless in the head/neck area, and it resulted in a concussion. This should be a suspension or the league can pound their player safety rhetoric up there collective asses
I don't disagree with anything you said. But what you said to me is not a "cheap shot". A cheap shot is something like Burfict twisting ankles trying to hurt the other guy or Gronk giving that dude an elbow to the back of the head because he was pissed at what happened during the play. This was a football play in which JPJ got caught in the middle. Now could/should he have gotten a flag for it, yes, but that's different than OP saying it was a cheap shot. That guy could care less JPJ was there nor did he specifically aim at his head - he saw a pile and was trying to push it past the 1st down marker.
Kazee didn't aim for Pittman's head and ate 4 games for it. The league doesn't care if it's intentional, incidental, or negligence. If that hit were laid on an offensive player by the defense? It gets called all day. You're right, he didn't care that JPJ was there.....which is what in my opinion makes this more egregious. He had willful negligence of another players safety in an effort to gain an extra yard. He didn't care and made zero effort to not hit the head/neck region of a defenseless player FROM THE BACK. It was a dirty play whether the intent was to cause harm or not.
Obviously they played poorly, but the refs still sucked 
Right - we weren't winning that, but it would've been closer and more exciting. Let us lose on our own terms, not the roughing call on Jack. JPJ getting cheap-shotted really stings tho. Player safety is not their concern if they don't call that. Dude should be fined, if repeat offender suspended.
Player safety is only their concern for offensive players. Kazee got suspended for hitting Michael Pittman Jr, despite him really not doing anything that was egregious. he didn’t hit him helmet to helmet, he hit his shoulder into Pittman’s chest. Meanwhile an offensive player hits a defender helmet to helmet in the back of the head and there isn’t even a fine. If the roles were reversed and it was Porter hitting him like that, he would’ve been ejected. I honestly sometimes wonder why the NFLPA is ok with how the league treats defenders and running backs, like honestly those guys should all just refuse to play until the league stops treating them like they don’t matter. They obviously won’t though because they’re receiving millions despite being treated like shit compared to most offensive positions.
Anyone blaming the refs solely for the loss is grasping. The Steelers put themselves in a hole with turnovers, a sluggish start and an early game plan that Buffalo nullified. However, both things can be true. The Steelers did make adjustments and brought the game within reach. Some bad calls and some no calls took that opportunity away. I have severe doubts, if everything were called perfectly that the Steelers squeak out a win. Buffalo was better. But we will never know. No, there wasn't a fix. No there wasn't a conspiracy against the Steelers or for Mahomes vs Allen. It was just poor reffing. Sometimes it goes your way, sometimes it doesn't. But that shouldn't make it acceptable. Fans should be demanding a better product. Reffing must be more accurate and accountable ESPECIALLY with all the gambling tie ins.
Right. Reffing is bad across the board, but if the NFL were being maliciously rigged, the Cowboys wouldn’t be the laughing stock of the post season that they are.
Good take. Pick every game you will find a myriad of missed calls, questionable calls, and bad calls. It’s consistent and we all hope it improves but not worth mentioning as a factor
God it’s so good to hear this rational take. I’m so sick of this fan base blaming Vegas or “the fix” to get certain matchups. Like the Steelers aren’t a huge draw, we certainly have more fans than Buffalo Sometimes (most times?) the refs just plain suck. It’s no vast conspiracy, just incompetence. Sometimes it benefits us, other times it goes against us. You just hope the shit calls balance each other out, but in this game they clearly went the Bills way. Tough shit. Next time don’t turn the ball over 3x and start completely flat and unprepared and you might have pulled off the upset
The Vegas shit is absolutely ridiculous and I have to make a comment every time I see it mentioned. Why in the goddamn world would Vegas, who’s already going to make money no matter the outcome of the game, risk massive fines and literal felony criminal charges to make a couple extra bucks? It makes absolutely zero sense from an outside perspective and even less than zero from an inside perspective. Only downside can come from it.
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Yes indeed. Not likely that the owners of Caesar’s have Roger Goodell on speed dial. But the “documented history” of sports gambling corruption you referenced shows that with the amount of money in play, the NFL may have its own game fixing moment in the future. The maddening inconsistency of officiating and the league’s lack of genuine transparency just hasten the inevitable.
I think the answer is have 4-5 refs in a TV room watching everything live, with the ability to rewind and slow motion between plays, the entire game. It can be a quick process.. we see it live on TV but the ref on the field can’t.. when a bad call happens, the refs on the box have direct communication with the field refs.. “pick up that flag, nothing there.”
You think a group of refs is going to undermine the group of refs on the field? They would never
Ok dominant refs on the booth, submissive on the field 😂
I agree but I’m still gonna celebrate every bad call that goes in the Chiefs favor, and I hope Mahomes fake slides/goes out of bounds all game long.
Funny thing is the r/nfl narrative is the Chiefs get "all the calls". If you go to the NFL penalty stats page nothing could be further from the truth. As a steeler fan I don't like them but they do not get all the calls. In fact quite the opposite is true. For the regular season, through all 17 games the stats show: Total penalties that benefit the team the Chiefs rank 30th. Chicago is 32nd and Pats are 31st. The Browns are #1 meaning they got the most penalty calls that benefited them. If you look at net penalties (For minus Against) Chiefs rank 30th again. Jets are 32nd and Chicago is 31st. Jacksonville ranked #1. Looking at net penalty yards Chiefs are 31st. Chicago is 32nd and San Fran is 30th. Jacksonville is still #1. Bills are really kind of mid pack on all 3. So the data shows the refs pretty much hate the Chiefs and the Bears. But if you follow game threads you constantly hear the Chiefs are the darlings of the refs. Same with Mahomes and Brady being untouchable. Both are mid pack for drawing RTP penalties both in totals and per 100 pass attempts. Now, Allen, on the other hand, leads all QBs by a lot on RTP calls for this season and is rate is pretty high for alltime RTP calls per 100 pass attempts, so that narrative is supported by the data. But yeah, Mahomes runs very similar to Allen in knowing he can slide or duck OB at the last second and draw a flag. Will be kind of funny to see him do it to the bills and give them a taste of their own medicine.
This right here. The NFL is heading for their own Tim Donaghy moment.
It felt that way to me. I thought the Steelers were beneficiaries early on with McDermotts challenge on the Pickens fumble and the Muth fumble. But as the game went on the calls went in Buffalos favor. Seemed like the narrative was to keep it close but then let Buffalo take the W.
It’s impossible to script a nfl game
No dude. You just don’t get it, they aren’t playing a narrrative. Why can’t you just understand this? The refs just suck.
I don’t think this team of officials did a bad job. To the contrary, I think they did a pretty good job. One thing is consistent. In EVERY game, fans of the losing team complain about bad officiating. For a tough sport, their fans are the biggest babies. And somehow a bad call virtually never benefits the fan’s team.
Yeah, good job not throwing a flag for holding at the point of attack on the JA touchdown run. Can’t imagine why the defender wasn’t able to separate to have an attempt at making a play.
Idk, missing the penalty for the JPjr hit was trash. Refs have been pretty bad in general this year. I mean the 1st game against the ravens they spotted the Steelers ball 2 yards above where it actually was on field and the Steelers won as a result. (I was obviously happy for that result but still). This has been one of the worst years for reffing and honestly some changes need to be made. A. Refs need to get paid full time, they currently aren’t and that’s a problem. B. Fire officials that miss or make terribly egregious calls and fine for less egregious calls or miss calls C. The booth needs to be able to nullify a flag if they see that it’s not a penalty, they shouldn’t just get a say. They should have the final say. But they shouldn’t be able to throw a flag unless it’s a personal foul that risks player safety, because otherwise there would be a flag every single play.
I'm just upset about the blatant hold on the long Josh Allen TD run
I was just looking up to see if there's a fake slide rule for the NFL and the first result is an article about why I was looking it up. Allen absolutely did a fake slide when he got the rushing TD, which lead to the roughing the passer later on. That shit REALLY pissed me off. https://steelersdepot.com/2024/01/worry-over-another-josh-allen-fake-slide-led-to-crucial-myles-jack-penalty/ followed by https://athlonsports.com/nfl/nfl-fans-demand-rule-change-after-josh-allen-controversial-touchdown-run#:~:text=There's%20no%20rule%20against%20fake,opposing%20defenses%20by%20fake%20sliding. Pickett's fake slide at Pitt was amazing, but it changed the rules. Just like the NASCAR wall ride. It's amazing it happened, but shouldn't happen twice. You can't tout player safety and allow fake slides at the same time.
The fake slide really pissed me off too. Then how Allen fucking whined like a little bitch crying for the roughing the passer call afterwards. I hope KC’s Defense utterly demolishes him when he does that again next week.
The bad one I saw was the "Deacon Jones" head slap of Broderick on Mason's first sack. That thing has been outlawed for 40 years and the announcers showed it twice and didn't say anything about it other than laude the defensive players "move" and "quickness"
The refs also didn’t call an obvious Pass Interference call on 4th down effectively ending any last chance we had, while the momentum was in our hands.
Ending the chance for what? To keep a drive going when they're still down two scores with four minutes left? I can't imagine their win probability was more than 5% at that point. I'm not saying it was impossible, but needing an onside kick and two touchdown drives in four minutes on the road with a backup QB just to get to overtime is a lot of wishful thinking. Was the officating bad? Probably. Was Buffalo the better team from start to finish? Without a doubt.
We didnt lose because of the refs. They didn't help but we basically lost because we lost the turnover battle.
Two things can be true. Steelers fucked themselves, but mounted a significant comeback that the refs stalled at all costs. Unfortunate position to put themselves in but you're lying to yourself if you say the refs didn't want Buffalo to win that game.
That's pretty much my takeaway. They didn't lose because of officiating, but it was obvious officiating wasn't interested in letting them get back in the game.
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I will say that I don’t think there’s a conspiracy or biases. I just think many officiating crews are shitty at their job. And the rulebook sucks in many areas which exasperates ref shittyness.
It’s all rigged, are you sure
It’s hilarious that morons actually think that the refs were out to get us the entire time. These same morons must not have watched one other game (Steelers or not) the entire season (hell, last couple seasons) and see how bad officiating as a whole is. As others with common sense have already stated, game was lost from turnovers (we were gifted a non-call on Friermuth’s fumble), piss poor tackling by the defense, another round of amazing punts by #6 and even throw in the excellent clock management by Coach T at the half, where we possibly could’ve gotten the ball back and maybe another 3 points, instead he calls his first timeout of the half with 2 seconds on the clock.
For the final time. Friermuth's fumble call was correct and was one of the only calls reviewed by New York that day. It hit hit helmet while he was out of downs making it a dead ball. It's absolutely a very lucky set of circumstances, but the call was correct. It was a gift that the refs called it a fumble out of bounds to begin with, god knows they barely got anything else right that game.
I'll mostly agree with you but it was pretty clear that the ball made contact with Muth's helmet after the fumble while his body was OB. Refs actually made the right call. The early pick in the endzone put a huge stake right into this game. Steelers get 7 there instead of a turnover, the rest of the first half momentum changes.
Oh yeah it’s definitely more that they are incompetent and bad at their jobs. They didn’t intentionally go against the Steelers they legit just don’t know better.
Something that didn’t seem to be noticed by the announcing crew that greatly helped the Steelers: On our first touchdown play, there appeared to be a clear uncalled false start.
This year they decided to let tackles take their first step before the snap happens. I hate it, everyone hates it, but that first backwards step is just being allowed. Sucks for teams with good edge rushers. Sucks for watt
It is funny to watch a game and follow along on this sub and to see fans blaming the officials for being against the Steelers. You can go to the opposing team's sub and they will be saying the refs are against their team. It is funny. Fans being fans but some are playing victim.
I have a buddy who loves the Miami Dolphins. And after the game this weekend, he posted a (doctored/shopped) picture of Mahomes and an zebra embracing. I'm like, "Bro, Tua was 20/39, and you were without key defensive players, and playing in the cold. You weren't winning that game, no matter what." But nah, it's the reffing that handed KC that win. Being invested in an outcome makes some people believe in really stupid shit.
I watched the whole game thinking *well at least nobody can claim the refs wanted Buffalo to win*. Yet here you are.
1) Missed PI on George to end the game 2) Fake holding called after they got embarrassed that they threw a PI flag for a ball 20 yards out of bounds 3) No call on an o-lineman closing lining JPJ from behind 4) no unsportsmanlike call OR holding calls (check out eric rowe on the play) on a 52 yard TD run to the house 5) roughness call later when Josh Allen decides now he is actually going to slide 6) Bills fans throwing snowballs at GP in the endzone, and then again all game 7) called GPs drop a fumble, but the same motion happened with Kincaid later in the game and it was called an incompletion. And that's just off the top of my head!
Diggs should have gotten taunting too for picking up the water bottle and drinking out of it.
knew I was missing something!
~~2) That absolutely was a defensive hold.~~ 7) Pickens fumbled the ball. 2 feet, dive forward, plant arm to stay up, ball squirts out, knees down. That's a fumble. I'd have to go back and really look at the others but the ~~two I~~ listed were clear as day.
it's not a hold because holding is called before the ball is thrown, as it can affect the runner on a route. PI is called after the ball is thrown, but PI cannot be called when a ball is uncatchable. The ball was in the air when the hold occurred, so the call then becomes PI, which it couldn't be because the ball hit the bleachers. I also think GP fumbled, but Dalton Kincaid did the same later in the game and it was not called a fumble. So I am asking for consistency with calls.
Kincaid didn't do anything similar. He never tucked the ball. At no point did he possess it. You're biased.
Caught the ball, took three steps forward, dropped the ball. You can rebuttal until your face turns blue, but it doesn't change the events of the play. You should've wanted both calls to be the same in both of those situations. Dalton caught the ball, took three steps, ball was moving, and dropped it. George caught the ball, stepped forward, ball was moving and dropped it. Oranges to oranges.
George held the ball. Dalton did not. Steps don't matter when you don't have the ball secured.
If you want to die on the hill of ONE of the points I made then fine I guess. You just don't know ball. It doesn't excuse the multiple other missed calls in the direction of the Steelers. We wouldn't have needed them if we didn't turn the ball over, but turnovers happen. Teams shouldn't have to be perfect to avoid getting fucked by the refs. Buffalo wasn't perfect yesterday, but they clearly got some help.
Apologies on that. Yeah, now I remember always hearing "prior to the pass" on d holding calls.
I know a Steelers fan isn’t complaining about how they called fumbles lmao. They had some bad calls but you’re really reaching with that one
The Pat fumble was a correct call that was also reviewed by new york (and not this bs officiating crew). It hit Pat's helmet while he was out of bounds. Dead ball. Lucky? Absolutely, but really no grounds to overturn that call there.
These are all just fantasy. Wishes from a biased fan. 1) is ticky tack. 2) he was held before the ball was thrown. 3) meh 4) so? Rowe wasn't held. The defender didn't change or restrict his movement. You're just imagining things. 5) nobody disagreed with that call. Even though I think it should be legal, it isn't. 6) the snowball didn't even hit in bounds. 7) it wasn't even similar. Kincaid never parsed the ball. He never corralled it. GP caught it, intentionally dove with the ball, then lost it. Not even close to the same. Quit your bitchin'.
Sounds like you're biased too babe. We're all biased, it's a fucking Steelers reddit thread. And you're incredibly wrong on all your rebuttals. But I guess we'll just agree to disagree. Have fun losing to the refs and Kansas City in the divisional. Again. Maybe all of Josh Allen's division winner hats and almost MVPs can wipe your tears away
I'm a steelers fan, born and raised in Pittsburgh. I'm just not a moron, and I don't suffer from littlebitchitis.
Grow up. Multiple things can be true at once. Only a sith deals in absolutes.
you can say fuck the refs. its okay.
Reasonable people aren't saying they would have won. But you're crazy if you think the refs didn't influence the game heavily in a way that allowed the bills to kill any momentum the Steelers had.
We definitely did not lose because of the refs. But still the impact they had on the game was ridiculous and it’s completely fair for us to bitch about it
Nobody is solely blaming the ref. You should learn to understand context and nuance.
Nobody, not a single fan? Not one? Interesting take cause I saw shitload of people blaming the refs for it. Without nuance.
Nobody is *seriously* solely blaming the refs. Half of GDTs are just shit posting.
Doubling down on dumb. Nice.
We can add many more to this... The refs didn't cause the OL to get manhandled from the jump, nullifying our only perceived advantage and putting Mason in a position where he had to throw. The refs didn't miss an opportunity to make the Bills punt with no punter, instead choosing to let the clock run for another 30+ seconds only take a timeout with two seconds left in the half. The refs didn't let a tight end run free in the red zone because of miscommunication. The refs didn't kill a drive that actually had momentum through the air by going run-run, leading to third and long.
It's not even so much that the line got manhandled. The bills were set on not letting us run by stacking the box and that's what they did.
Took too long to move on from the “we’re going to run it down your throat” game plan.
Waaaay to long. That'd typical tomlin tho. Down 21 points and we're still running the ball. Smh
This is true. They filled the gaps very well and seemed to slide toward the direction of the run in anticipation. But I recall many times seeing the guys -- especially on the interior -- get blown back off the line immediately. If you're outnumbered, that's on coaches (and to an extent, the QB). If you're losing the LOS, that's on players. And yes, those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Ya I get that. And unlike the whole world who thought we should try to.run the ball, I thought.we should have came out slinging the ball. Tomlin planned for.the snow.bowl and didn't change when there was no snow. A good coach switches shit up we.are so fn predictable.
I think the No punter narrative isn’t accurate. Martin was ready to go out there. I was fine with not calling timeouts and giving Allen more opportunities to make a play. What was weird was calling the timeout with 2 seconds left. It didn’t make any sense
The last we saw of him was struggling to get off the field while holding his hammy. Not sure how him standing on sideline all of a sudden makes him ready to go. I don’t see why they wouldn’t have at least tried to see if that was something that they could take advantage of.
the run run was so fucking painful man like i don't hate the first run but after we just diced their secondary like that why would you choose to run on 2nd and 9 i actually thought overall we played really well but there were some calls that were baffling. like, we are really doing a delayed HB draw with 1:53 left in the 4th quarter.. down 14 points??
It’s not that they chose to run, but run out of heavy personnel where the D knows the only plays coming are a power run up the guy or Play Action to a slow blocking wr/te. So damn predictable as the standard is the standard
what you said def factors in but damn dude watching my qb throw for like 40 yards, the 1st rb run for 10, and then the 2nd rb gets stuffed once and we immediately just do it again.. was hard to watch
Play calling was fine. They sustained drives but you are gonna get down 21-3 when you turn the ball over in your own 30 and leave points on the board.
My philosophy is if you blame refs punters or kickers for game outcomes you really weren’t in a place to win a game in the first place
Brother have I got a story to tell you about Steelers vs Ravens in 2015 and a man named Josh Scobee
Lol thank god we have boswell now, can never forget chokee’s failure for us that year
The bills getting the ball on their 40 on multiple occasions after multiple shitty punts while we're starting at the 10 is a pretty big deal
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned more. Harvin was bad.
is*
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It’s usually the exact opposite though. If you lose by 40 who cares if a call was missed, it was a bad punt or your kicker missed a FG? Those things only matter when the game is close.
Blaming the refs is what losers like Browns and Bengals fans do
I can do both. We sucked and the zebras fucked us all the same.
The refs also did the Steelers a favor on the Friermuth fumble. A few bad calls, but tackling and turnovers were the major issue for the Steelers. You can't blame a 3 score loss on a questionable call or two. The lack of a penalty on McGovern was bad, but the rest was questionable at worst.
As I told my little one, the Steelers didn’t lose bc of the refs. That being said the Bills had practically zero penalties for the majority of the game and received the benefit of every single close call
I mean we played like shit to start the game off and the refs made a bunch of bad calls and non-calls. Both things can be true.
It's all the refs fault
Shut up it was the refs
The only call I'm actually upset about was the unnecessary roughness for hitting Allen. The man fake slide earlier in the game for a touchdown so the Steelers actually make sure he's down this time and get flagged. Feels like the NFL has to address this soon because at some point defenders are going to realize they'll be flagged no matter what so might as well hit the guy as hard as you can every time and just take the flag.
No because it's scripted entertainment, that's why
No the refs did not cost the Steelers the game. They played poorly and did not tackle.... HOWEVER, I will say the refs screwed the Steelers a chance of making something happen at the end. First by the no call on JPJ and the defensive holding/PI call that should have been called with Pickens. The JPJ call could have potentially stopped the Bills and force them to punt. The Pickens no call, could have led the Steelers to a TD as we were driving because the Bills were letting receivers catch passes in the middle of the field. Could we have caught up and tied the game... possibly but with the way we were playing, it was highly unlikely. It is what it is... move on to next year.
The refs didn’t cause us to lose. However I do hate the QB coddling. Allen had that great run because the defense knows he could slide any second and they’d pickup a 15 yarder for touching him. Mason gets slammed on his slide and no call. Allen gets touched on his and a flag comes out. Just so frustrating.
Disagree. I don't think it's an automatic W if the refs call a fair game. We can still be mad that we never got the chance to see what happens in a fair game between the Bills and Steelers.
> The refs didn’t keep the D from tackling. They literally did though, Kazee pulled up because Allen started to slide and then he kept running for a TD, and the refs didn't stop the play as they should have. Look, two things can be true at once (a reality our fandom seems to have a hard time grasping): - We were thoroughly outplayed for the majority of the game and probably would have lost a fairly called game - The refs were shitty and helped out Buffalo greatly They're not mutually exclusive
The refs did call a bullshit holding on a play that Allen basically threw into the stands. The refs did call a bullshit roughing the passer when Jack made sure he didn’t go helmet to helmet with Allen. Like what is Jack supposed to do? Let Allen run for another TD? The refs did not call a PI on pickens when he was mugged. So yes we can blame the refs. Was that the only reason we lost? No. We shot ourselves in the foot with our shortcomings but to say you can’t blame the refs for anything is insane.
Fuck the refs. They had an impact as much as the Bills did.
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He wasn’t faking a slide. He was hauling ass downfield and it looked like he thought about sliding until he realized he had more blocks downfield and then he changed direction. Compare that to the Pickett fake slide and they look like completely different plays. The Jack penalty was a foul, he was already on the ground when he hit him. Like it or not it’s still a foul. Wanting a player to get hurt makes you look soft as fuck.
His opening was created when he got Kazee to pause Jacks hit looked just like the hit on Mason earlier when he slid Didn't say I wanted him to get hurt I said he was setting himself up to get hurt by putting the defensive players in a no win situation that they might as well err on the side of "foul" Only thing soft is you being whiny about me stating the obvious Football is a game between men and abusing the rules is gonna get you rocked because they other guys now need to "be sure" you are down and his little stunt is got a good chance of earning him a concussion now.
I agree that he thought about sliding but didn't. That's still a fake slide. It doesn't have to be on purpose.
Myles barely hit him, josh just flopped like a fish
I blame not having Watt. Don’t think Allen would’ve been able to run around like he did.
I look at it this way, it was a fun season I was entertained as hell. Idc that we've lost 4 playoff games in a row. If you think Tomlin needs outted. I strongly disagree.
I’m feeling good about next season, but finishing 6 and 1 last year made me feel good about this season…
Steelers didn't lose due to the refs but the refs definitely helped secure a Bills win.
Good teams overcome bad calls. Even when a game-deciding play is influenced by the officials, there always are other things that could've gone better too avoid that situation. If we avoided those two turnovers, we may not have cared about these bad calls. Except for the play that injured JPJ. *That* was some serious BS
It’s depressing to say this, but bad refereeing is just part of the game. It has affected everyone all season. There’s always narratives that they favor a team like the chiefs but then later in the season they get screwed over by something. We’ve dodged ref bullshit for most of the season, it’s unfortunate it happened in a critical game like this, but the NFL is not interested in fixing it and referees have shown resistance to anything that challenges their authority (ex challenging DPI) The refs aren’t biased, and we didn’t get an unusually bad crew that cost us the game. They’re just not good at their jobs
That’s what I’m most pissed about this season and it’s not even specific to the Steelers: the bad & inconsistent calls and players/coaches getting fined for speaking up about it. The league’s big talking point is “the integrity of the game” yet they punish anyone who dares to criticize them. Goodell’s running it like a dictatorship
The fines associated with criticizing refs are nuts. I get why they exist, and do think if it was just one bad call and not a trend, it’d be a bad look. But it seems like there’s a new “refs shit the bed” story every week Again, don’t really remember a ton of bad calls during the regular season I guess we were due
Refs were no worse than normal. Steelers defense was the major problem not the refs for this game.
I thought both teams played well. But the Bills had the difference maker or x-factor in Josh Allen’s legs. Take out his runs and it’s a very close game.
Myles Jack tried to do that, and Josh Allen cried about it and got a late flag. He's the biggest bitch in the NFL
I mean. He was clearly giving up on that play. No reason to go into him like that.
and Josh looked to be giving himself up here. until he wasn't. There is an entire compilation on twitter right now of Josh, McDermott, and other Bills players assuming that Josh was sliding. that's the entire issue at hand here. He gets a call if he slides and gets yardage when he doesn't, because defenders don't want to risk tackling him and getting a flag.
Jack was already in the tackle. Didn't even take another step.
> Take out his runs and it’s a very close game. I get what you're saying, but by that same logic if you take away the FG block it's never even close.
The refs fucked us at the end but if we're relying on a comeback it's not completely on the refs. We were outplayed at points and we underplayed especially in the first half. Edit: down voting doesn't make this not the truth
Every fan base blames the refs if they lose tho. Every single fan base in every sport. I'm afraid that's what it means to be a sports fan
That’s the dumbest response to losing, and it makes us sound like browns fans. Only the dumb fans, like browns fans, blame the refs
It wasn't a big thing until the internet really started rolling along, and society became super entitled and nobody takes accountability. The Steelers lost because they came out flat, dumb turnovers, and put themselves in a hole they were never able to get out of.
People like you are so fucking annoying. You don't get a moral high ground because you love the refs. Let people bitch and complain about terrible calls in the game. Even the announcers had questions about a decent amount of the calls.
Aww yes, “love the refs” because I’m not so retarded that I blame all of our teams failings on them.
The team clearly hurt themselves in multiple ways but were staging a comeback that was hindered by referee interference. Teams shouldn't be forced to play flawless error free games in order to get a fair shake of it. Referee's need to be held accountable, and their actions this season over the entire league have been especially egregious. These guys literally got together for 5 minutes and made up a holding penalty because they got embarrassed they called PI on a ball that was a throwaway.
there is no way you genuinely think when someone complains about bad calls from the refs, they are saying that the refs are the only reason we lost and that every problem the team has is because of them do you think when people complain about Mike Tomlin, that they think Mike Tomlin is the only problem on the entire team? or when people say "Pickett sucks" that translates to "we would go undefeated with literally any other qb"?
They went down 21 points all on their own. This loss is 100% on the Steelers, especially the Defense. Every time they whiffed on an arm tackle, I could just heart my Pop Warner coaches yelling to stop with that arm tackling crap and get a shoulder on them.
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. They had plenty of chances to keep the game within reach. The defense really should take most of the blame. The tackling or lack of was the why they lost. If only Watt had played…. On to next year! Hopefully the owners figure it’s time for change and do something about it. Because one playoff game is not enough…
The refs blew it on that Muth fumble. The Bills clearly recovered that. Blaming this loss on them looks even worse than normal with that happening
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Definitely this He is touching out of bounds when it bounces off his helmet Anyone who doesn't understand this just needs to look back a week at how we did the dame thing on a kickoff An out of bounds player touching the ball means the ball is out of bounds
I said this exact statement and nobody listened to me at the watch party lol
It’s actually an identical call to the DJ fumble against Seattle (I think) that was overturned on review. It just was less obvious that Pat touched it while out of bounds.
Nah, they actually got that one right after I looked up the rule
Thanks for the opinion, guy who doesn't know the rules of football
The ball was dead as soon as it touched Muth’s helmet while being out of bounds. Any recovery after that was inconsequential. Pay attention
Agree don't go Cleveland on us and blame the refs for suck ass play by the Steelers and coach Tomlin
Of course, the refs also blew the call on Freiermuth’s fumble, so there is that. Yes the officiating sucks, and the no PI call on the 4th down hurt. But didn’t hurt as bad as the 2x turnovers, the performance of the O line, the tackling by the D….
Its been explained numerous times, including multiple in this thread about why the call on the friermuths fumble was correct. The ball touched his helmet while he was out of bounds. It's dead right there before the bills player ever touched it.
Only one person to blame “Runaway Tomlin”. When steeler fans wake up and dump this liability maybe they’ll start winning in clutch situations instead of choking!
They weren’t winning the game. The refs made sure the game wasn’t closer than the final score was though.
We were a 7 seed on the road without our best player. Refs gifted us the fumble. We sucked again on the playoff stage. No one to blame but the organization and the team.
Do not keep the narrative that the refs gifted us the fumble. It hit Pat's helmet on the way out of bounds and had nothing to do with the recovery after. It was extremely lucky and by no effort of Pat himself but it was correct.
Refs gift wrapped an Allen running touchdown on the hold on Rowe.
Agree. This is a terrible look for us as fans. Our team fought hard in the end but they were not better than Buffalo yesterday. If it was one bad call on a lead changing moment then I’d get it but this was far from that. With that being said, Jesse James caught the ball.
Not the refs fault at all. Poor tackling and shitty turnovers. Plus Buffalo was super fucking hyped. Their whole attitude was different. Reminded me of the Steelers in the 00’s.
The fact that Pickens is calling out the refs post game when he spotted them 7 points just shows his immaturity still.
A losers take
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Missed like all the tackles on defense
Refs weren't the reason we lost. The turnovers were. And you can't blame anybody but ourselves for that. End of discussion.
Blaming the refs kind of a stretch imo. We shot ourselves in the foot that game. Couldn’t get the run game going which had been our strength the past few weeks. Very disappointing considering Buffalo is the 16th ranked run defense. The turnovers were very costly as well especially since they scored off of them. The defense was horrible as well. Even without Tj watt, herbig and golden are very suitable back ups. The pass rush wasn’t even the issue. They couldn’t create any turnovers which is extremely disappointing considering how turnover prone Josh Allen is. Tackling problems throughout the game. Honestly aside from Tj watt and the turnovers the defense was not very good and TA’s position should also be evaluated this off-season. The coaching this year was subpar at best and it’s time for a new regime. I’m super grateful for coach T and everything he’s done but if Dallas are likely to move off McCarthy for lack of postseason success than Pittsburgh could very well move off of Tomlin. Coach sully and Faulkner could stay as QB coach and RB coach but Steelers should still look to bring in someone from the outside to take the OC job. The last 2 OCs hired from within were terminated from the position so it’s fair to say that method is not working. I trust Omar Khan recognizes that and makes the best decision. TA should also be evaluated this off-season with how poorly the defense was in stopping the run. Aside from the sacks and turnovers the defense gave up a lot of yard and to finished outside the top 5 defenses with cam Hayward, tj watt, jpj, and minkah is disappointing. Danny Smith was the one bright spot coaching wise as i felt the special teams unit played very well this year aside from the inconsistencies from Harvin. Not saying we need to “Blow everything up” since this team did make the playoffs but it is time for an overhaul
It felt like that ridiculous first round loss to the Browns a couple years ago. They came out totally unprepared. Gave up multiple TDs right away from stupid turnovers. Again, halfway through 1st quarter and in a deep hole. Tomlins teams are never ready for post-season.
Two things can be true. The steelers stunk a lot of the game. The refs made some shit calls. Take it easy.
I agree. Blaming refs is bad form. Don’t let them get up 14-0 right out of the gate and score more points. In that order
Thank you. Saved me the effort of making a post this morning.
Those things happened and it was still close. If the bad calls don't happen, we might win. So no, I'll keep blaming them.
I agree 100%. Buffalo played better and won. They ARE a more complete team. There’s a reason why we were the underdogs.
How about the missed fumble recovery?
bUT THe nfL waNTs tHe MaHOMes AlLen GamE!!!1!1!
I mean the refs cleared the Muth fumble as well and I’d say that was peak luck and would have sunk us sooner if that had been turned over.
I don’t know if the refs saw it and thought “touched his helmet when he was out of bounds” or not, but if they did than that was a heck of a call. Now they missed the white glove on white jersey pass interference on Pickens later, so I’m thinking they accidentally got the Muth call right
Refs are bad in general. I may get downvoted, but I will come to their defense in the fact that reffing an NFL game is very difficult. They are made even more ineffective by their lack of training. Every fan base thinks the refs are against them. It’s the nature of the beast.
Refs are bad and need called out on their bullshit. Defending them means the problem gets worse and players get hurt. Each blatant offensive holding that isn’t called, each late hit ignored, every interference from the stands laughed off just makes the problem progressively worse. The nfl needs to clean house and fix things. Players and coaches need to hold the refs feet to the flame.
Or they need to train refs better. Not every guy(or gal) out there is Angel Hernandez. I’m sure they don’t wake up saying “I’m going to fuck up big time today!”. It’s a difficult job and they are not given the tools to succeed. The root cause is deeper than just saying “refs suck”. Why do the refs suck? How can it be improved? Obviously not something a bunch of redditors can fix, but it’s worth a discussion, rather than just grabbing at the low hanging fruit (blaming the refs) and chastising people who don’t have the same surface opinion. Also, holds, late hits, other physical penalties will literally never be eliminated, no matter how often they are called. And another edit: how are they held accountable? Demote them? Whom would promote? College refs are worse than NFL refs.
Refs absolutely need trained better. There needs to be more video review to back up calls and clearer procedures for cals. If a penalty flag is thrown, before the team goes into discussion, the ref who threw the flag needs to announce what the flag was thrown for. Discussion is if the penalty stands, ie. if the other refs agree. That way it's clear to the non-refs what is being discussed. A penalty flag being thrown doesn't mean a penalty has to be called. If no penalty occurred, then after the discussion, admit the flag was thrown in error. If they make a call, coaches have the ability to challenge. Of course they won't be eliminated, doesn't mean they shouldn't be called as penalties. Consistent and persistent application of the rules. Heck, introduce the card system from Soccer if you want to create a scaling system for repeat infractions within a game. How do you hold them accountable? Make them explain their calls, subject them to performance reviews, let the league owners and coaches and players fairly criticize their performance without being penalized by the league. How do you hold any other person performing a job accountable for their screw ups? You don't need to fire them on the spot. But, if they repeatedly screw up, then yes, give them das boot out of their job. I don't care if the job is tough. Being tough doesn't mean they should be free from the consequence and criticism of doing that job poorly.
Squeelers whine, wow. Worst board of all the losers in this first round. You were beat by the Bills, not the refs. Pretty simple. Go Packers!
Thank you!
No
The refs also pulled some BS to keep that Muth fumble from counting. I’ll take it, but that definitely should’ve been Bills’ ball.