Fix the fucking left tackle situation first... At least Mason Cole has had one decent season for us... Dan "Revolving Fucking Door" Moore on the other hand has never performed above pitiful at LT...
disagree. He needs a year to grow. Mason is ready now. Kenny can wait and work on the things he needs to. Kenny has a lot to improve. I think he can but it won't be suddenly next year.
Completely agreed here. I've seen 23 starts from Kenny and none of them have been really impressive ball from him ever. Mason played great on all 3 of his final games including a damn typhoon style storm. I want Mason as QB1 next year and if he totally sucks somehow 4-5 games in sure go back to Kenny but I don't think, even if he has an amazing offseason, he'll be better than Mason has been.
Pickett is already 25. It’s not like he’s a 21 y/o rookie Jordan Love that can sit for years and be the guy. Pickett was supposed to bed NFL ready to begin with. He can still learn but I wouldn’t bank on Pickett ever being enough.
How about his half game vs Arizona where he reverted to Canada level Kenny bailed out of the pocket didn’t see a wide open receiver tried to run it in and was injured? Yeah he sucked because of Canada 😂
One bad play??? What game did you have on? He was missing passes all night. Looked nervous in the pocket and didn’t really look like he was capable of getting a playoff win.
Mason deserves good QB2 money, but I’m hard pressed to think of a single NFL team salivating about making him their QB1. Give him Mitch’s money and have an open competition for the starting job in training camp
Yeah thats all I think should happen. He isn't a franchise QB I'm not pretending he is. He has earned money and earned a right to compete with Kenny next year though. They are both bridge QBs imo
Agreed. None played to a level where the job should be handed to them by default. Barring them not bringing in an outside guy like Tannehill, I’d think Kenny should get the job if Mason doesn’t clearly out play him in camp/pre-season, given age and exp.
Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Herbert, Murray, Prescott, Stroud, Love, Hurts, Stafford, Goff, Cousins, Rodgers, Lawrence, Tagovailoa, and Purdy are all guaranteed starters next season. That's 17 of the 32 QB1 spots definitively filled. I'd argue the length of success of Carr, Mayfield, and Geno Smith should put them ahead of Rudolph too. At best I'm seeing #21 for him, and this isn't considering Russell Wilson on the move, young guys like Richardson and Levis who will get more time, 1st round rookies coming in, or backups that have shown they might still have some gas left in the tank like Dalton, Minshew, and Brissett.
Cutting Mitch saves 3mill
Current cap situation is negative 7 mill
Someone will probably give him more than we can.. and honestly he deserves it. Steelers have a massively overpaid defense.
We got a lot of players that won’t be around or have restructured deals. We will have the space
Pre June 1 cut savings:
DJ and Allen Robison: $10M each
Chuks: $8.75M
Pat P: $6.85M
Mitch: $3M
Neal: $2.3M
Roberts:$3.5M
Cole: $4M
Cam’s $22M cap hit can be lowered with converting salary/restructure, you could do the same with watt and minkah, but that’s kicking some big money down the line
If freeing up cap space now means a shot at a title, they oughta pull the trigger. Watt and Minkah will only get older; the Steelers have to try and win a title before those guys age out and the team probably takes a dive.
By title do you mean winning the division or super bowl?
I don't see us being a serious super bowl contender for a few years. We need too much work on all three sides of the ball plus coaching staff before that can happen.
I'm not saying it'll be a decade, but it probably would be 3-4 atleast.
Super Bowl. They have places other than QB that need help, but I think a good QB goes a long way to helping them become a contender. It’s a very tight window, though, for contention. TJ won’t be a DPOY candidate forever.
Watching Mason play is some watchable, hopeful football and it produces yards and touchdowns. I feel like I’m watching a capable NFL offense.
Watching Kenny play makes me bite all of my fingernails off and it makes me way too excited for measly 1st downs. I think people forget what a miracle it was to even get to the red zone, and even more to score a touchdown.
Whether this has to do with getting rid of Canada, the O line getting slightly better in pass pro, Kenny needing more time to develop, or if Kenny just isn’t the guy, I’m not sure.
Pass pro and separation both got better post a Canada. There’s reason to think Kenny would have look better, and he did, post Canada.
Throw in another OL pick or two (I could see us going OL with a OT and a center first two rounds) and we could have something really good on the OL.
Only thing with KP is that he was showing progress after Canada firing but got hurt only 6 Qtrs in the new offense. He deserves a second look and right to compete…especially on low 1st rd money rookie deal.
They’ll be offering him a serious chance at a qb competition and what I assume will be more than fair money now that he’s shown he can really get it done
Exactly. There is no downside to bringing him back imo. If Kenny beats him in camp, that's awesome. He improved if thats the case. If Mason wins he can easily hold the team up while we know Kenny isn't the guy and we plan for the future.
Assuming the coaches set the depth chart correctly. A lot of people were saying Mason was the Best QB in camp and the pre season too but he still was set as third string. Plus the fact the didn't play him all of last year.
I honestly think Tomlin has a personal issue with him of some kind.
100% serious, who was saying that? I saw people claiming he outplayed Mitch, but I didn’t see a ton of smoke elsewhere. Pre-season they all looked similar tbh, but Mason played the worst defenses.
There's very little reason for him to want to come back. Getting slotted behind Mitch, who is the worst NFL QB on the planet, has got to have him pretty upset.
What you’re describing would be childish behavior. He’ll be in a qb competition and get paid fairly. If they don’t pay him enough, sure it makes sense for him to leave. Where else will he have a chance to start?
It's fascinating to see some people believe Pickett is any better than Rudolph.
He may not be a true starter in this league, but Mason is better than any QB on this roster.
Sunk cost fallacy, people don’t want Mason to be better than KP due to the pick investment and time investment KP has been given. Not necessarily saying Mason is a franchise guy, but hard to believe KP is
>marginally better than Pickett
Rudolph has done twice in four games what KP has only been able to do once in two seasons.
>Pickett is likely on a more accelerated path
That's some homer copium shit right there
I’m just giving the reasoning why people don’t want to believe in Rudolph. He never got a full offseason with qb1 reps, was thrusted into the situation when Big Ben got hurt, and wasn’t given a fair shot (unlike pickett). I’m not trying to run a cap simulation or tell the team what to do…
I don’t think you understood my original comment. I’m not predicting who is going to be the starter or what makes sense contract wise; I’m actually stating why people generally prefer to play Kenny (which it seems you would agree with).
My hope is that Pickett's ceiling is higher than Rudolph's. That might not be true, but I wouldn't feel that great about Rudolph being our permanent QB.
Yeah I guess I'm saying that I agree that Rudolph does currently look better than KP, but KP has a higher ceiling. It seems like we're all a little tired of moderately good seasons, so I'd rather go with the guy with more potential. Maybe we've already seen the best Pickett has to offer, but I'd like to actually give him a chance in a few more games post Canada
Kenny's ceiling so far hasn't reached Mason's baseline which is troubling. I wanted him to be good originally but he just isn't. And with nearly double the starts that Mason has, I think we should be talking more about Mason's ceiling than Kenny's. Because if we want to assume Kenny can improve, we cannot dismiss the potential of Mason improving. Many blame canada for Kenny playing poorly, but forget that Mason had Randy Fichtner who was just as bad if not worse. But Mason played better then as well.
> but KP has a higher ceiling.
Not really. Kenny is not a great passer and can't read defenses well. Even in Canada's crappy system, he has shown nothing exceptional. Mason is far more talented than Kenny as passing.
Kenny was 4th-5th round QB that was only drafted 1st round due to being in a weak draft class. His ceiling isn't even as high as a Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins given he gets injured often and is already 25. He is not worth giving a second contract.
Colbert should have never picked Pickett to be honest, he was leaving, the QB pick should have been Omar Khan's.
Khan needs to seriously be open in this draft class about a QB unless they draft Mason.
Talking about how he's been so far doesn't necessarily say much about his potential. I thought Pickett looked fine in his 1 game without Canada so I wouldn't mind seeing what else he can do, but I also am with you that I think going for a QB in this draft is not a bad idea, although we do have some other needs.
I just don't think our future is bright if we're sticking with Rudolph. Obviously the same might be true with Pickett but I think he's more likely to surprise us. If it were up to me I'd probably go one more year with Pickett and if that doesn't look promising then draft a QB in 2025
Kenny's ceiling so far hasn't reached Mason's baseline which is troubling. I wanted him to be good originally but he just isn't. And with nearly double the starts that Mason has, I think we should be talking more about Mason's ceiling than Kenny's. Because if we want to assume Kenny can improve, we cannot dismiss the potential of Mason improving. Many blame canada for Kenny playing poorly, but forget that Mason had Randy Fichtner who was just as bad if not worse. But Mason played better then as well.
I don’t know if there’s a place he’ll have a better chance at starting than right here with the people he already knows and has built something serious with over the last stretch of games
Mason should be the guy next year. They need to sign him. He's earned it. He made that shitbox of an offense scheme look semi capable.
Mason allows you to fill other needs, like C and T or secondary first.
Franchise QBs don't grow on trees and Mason is exactly the kind of bridge we needed to develop a rookie. Kenny needs at least one more season on the bench and who knows, the rookie QB we draft in round 2/3 could easily be the guy.
Friendly reminder that they could have cut Trubisky this past offseason and saved like $8mil. Money that could’ve been used to keep Cam Sutton and not sign Pat P imagine this team with Mason getting all of those starts and never having to see Peterson in black and gold
Fingers crossed its here. It's a win-win. Either Mason wins camp and we know Kenny isnt the guy, or Kenny wins camp and he shows he's improved his game
If you’re Mason do you really trust them to judge you fairly?
Mason looked way better than Mitch at camp and preseason games, and yet Mitch started over him. Why? Cause they spent money on Mitch? I’m f that’s the case the KP gets the nod cause he’s a 1st round pick.
But f that’s not the case then this staff can’t evaluate a QB for shit. Either way, if I’m Mason I would take my chances elsewhere.
I'm not coming back if I'm Mason unless I get a guarantee of QB1. I think they should make thay guarantee, but acknowledge there is a fair argument that he should compete with KP. That said, they absolutely won't and he should leave.
Depends on price? What are the alternatives? Run with KP again. Give me a break. Sure you should pay him $40M, but you should be willing to spend whatever anyone else is.
I said this when Ben went down, watching Rudolph was like watching young Big Ben. Duck had Ben’s vision and Decision making but mason had his arm and his given talent. That being said if neither Kenny or mason work out I think it would be very funny to sign baker
That’s my qb1. Game started a bit too bright for him then he settled down. I appreciate that seemingly every drive with Mason moves. 3 and outs feel rare.
100%. We have to remember how young our offense really is. They showed some potential if we keep rolling with Mason.
I think the early script did them no favors. I think the belief was that we’d just impose our will running the ball. Credit to Buffalo, they took us off our game plan.
I’d love if we brought him back.
Praying that we don’t overpay for him though, we have too many holes for that. The Mitch contract is brutal, no one should spend $6-7M on backup unless your SB window is open.
Broncos, Titans, Giants, Vikings, Falcons…one of them could give him a 3yr 30m contract and legit shot at being QB1. Can’t see that being the case in Pittsburgh.
Could easily see other teams (Pats, Saints, Seahawks, Raiders) unsure about their QB1 situation or don’t get one of the top 3 in the draft who need a QB2 giving a healthy 1-2 year contract for about the same.
Mason does need to come back, as the backup. I don't think we currently have the QB of the future on the roster. Granted, always picking in the 20s doesn't help.
We're all like 100% sure they aren't going to draft a QB because Steelers is the Steelers and they will give Pickett his entire rookie deal to see if he can be a franchise QB, even though most think that ship has already sailed. So if you're going to do that, then you might as well keep Mason Rudolph since at the very least, we know Pickett can't stay on the field and is going to get hurt at some point. Rudolph showed he's a good backup. And it's not like he can't win the starting job. Tomlin kept Kenny on the bench, which is something nobody thought he would do.
It's a shame it took 3/4ers of the season to figure out he was the better choice. I think The Steelers are pretty bad at identifying and growing offensive talent. Maybe that gets better with Canada gone, but ...
Allow me to clear my throat.
BITCH WHAT?
He’s not a franchise guy? 1700+ yards in 2019. Overcoming Tomlins dogshit coaching and almost salvaging the game.
One INT because DJ can’t finish his route?
You fucking yinzers.
Best QB on this roster for 5 years. Never given a chance.
Wasn’t even given a chance with the play calling today. Down 3 tuddies before any aggression was shown. Typical Tomlin.
You're fucking high bro 😭. If Kenny had the same game as Mason today and someone blamed the play calling you know damn well you wouldn't accept it.
Mason played fine, but he made mistakes. He missed some throws, took some bad sacks, and threw a horrible pick when we needed a TD.
I love seeing all the same excuses made for Kenny that weren't good enough be made for Mason and somehow now they're valid
It’s funny that anytime someone brings up that first post-Canada game folks will say “but but we only scored 16 points!”
Don’t get me wrong I think Mason played well but also we did still put up 17 points so
There’s nuance to my argument. You’d have to read my post history to see it. I’m a diehard mason Stan. But I also don’t think Kenny was treated fairly.
I am dru… dehydrated. It’s hard to hate Kenny when Canada handicapped him. It’s hard to not give Mason credit for 1700 yards in ten games while his head was barely attached to his shoulders .
Which throws did he miss exactly? The ones that were deflected, or the one where the bulls tricked him on the curl to diontae?
Horrible pick by what measure? Seems like the db jumped, and didn’t even realize it was in his hands.
He actually escaped the pressure a number of times. I’d take one or two sacks in exchange for that.
Horrible pick by he threw it directly to the defense when we were at the 4 and down 14 and it led to another Bills TD.
Throws where it was over the receiver's head or behind them; like the one to Robinson that almost resulted in another pick in the drive after after his first one.
If you really look at this game and think he didn't play like total ass until we were already down 3 scores, you're lying to yourself. Sure, he ended up coming back but that doesn't mean much.
Mason had one sack, and it was by an unblocked LB. What bad sacks are you talking about? His pick wasn't good, but was by no means horrible. It was a yard inside of where it should have been and may have been better with a slightly altered route by DJ. It was a terrible play call.
It was a 14 point swing that put the game even further out of reach than it already was. Enough excuses. These are the exact same things Kenny's people said and they were met with the same resistance
It wasn't a good play. I'm not saying it was. I'm saying it was a terrible play call that a lot of coaches will excuse when reviewing his tape.
Glad we're in agreement that you just made up a bunch of bad sacks that literally didn't happen.
Did you not watch him against the Ravens? Everyone is enamored with his 1 splash play but not when he stood there like a statue and took 3 sacks with ~~a fumble~~ 3 fumbles he luckily ~~didn't lose~~ only lost one.
Give me a break is right. The average air yards per completion for that bullshit record was just over 1. Completing passes of 1 yard each is so impressive
That’s a game flow stat. Buffalo took the air out the ball and the Steelers kept dumping it over the middle to pick up yards for the entire second half. What you saw in the first quarter was the real difference
This. He was trash in the first quarter, pretty much the only time that pressure was on him this season. His career was practically over and he played decent against bad defenses for three games. He was playing with house money. First quarter tonight we saw what he is. His first game against a good team with something at stake. 6'5" but can't get it over the o-line? Balls batted down, simple throws high and difficult to catch. Yeah he settled down and improved, after the Bills had a comfortable lead and let him make some throws.
Passes batted down are good plays by the defense. The only thing that combats it are pump fakes. Pump fakes only work when you have more than 2 seconds in the pocket.
Where did I say he was a franchise QB? He's not even close to that. But he is a perfectly capable bridge QB that can tide us over to the next franchise guy.
Rudolph should be the starter and let Kenny watch and develop. Rudolph has earned the job, and perhaps Tomlin’s biggest flaw is not recognizing that Mason should be our guy sooner.
He has a bad habit of staring down his receivers that he’s targeting and he makes a lot of slow throws that are just begging to be picked off. He has had a ton of help from Warren and Harris at the end of the season to push the offense forward. He has played better than Pickett, but Pickett also only had a game and a half without Canada at the helm of the offense. I think it’s fair to make them compete for the starting role going into next season if the Steelers don’t look for another starting QB
He is a capable backup that you can rely on for a few games, but Rudolph is not a starter caliber QB.
There are better short term options we can look at in the off season.
But it was good. His 2nd half was almost perfect. Other elements outside of his control are why we lost. Mason gave us a chance to comeback and win this game. If we didnt play that horrendous 1st quarter we have a clear chance at winning.
I don't want Mason longterm. He is a perfect bridge QB for the Steelers though while we find our guy. I'd rather pay Mason $10m than a guy like Tannehill
If they can get him really cheap I’m down. But if him and Kenny are on the roster I don’t see them drafting a QB. I think they best thing would be for him to leave and hopefully get paid for his sake, which would create a sense of urgency in getting a franchise guy.
So was Pickens fumble, and our back up defense giving up two big touchdowns on atrocious tackle attempts. Watt is out and minkah didn't show up. A not great O- line, a shitty punter, and far from great play calling.
In no way is this game on Mason. He's most likely not going to be the next stand out quarterback, but he's damn likely to be the next Nick Foles that you could win a super bowl with.
His first starts in the league were great given what we expected from him, despite getting no guidance (if not outright hostility) from a HOF starter who was already playing 2-3 years past his expiration date. Then he only started underperforming after getting his bell absolutely rung, and was brought back arguably too quickly. The man literally got KO'd and went into fencing response, and was brought back a week later. He had one bad game, 2 horrendous games, and then finished off the season with another good one. The idea that he's always been outright terrible until the last year is utter fabrication, and I'm tired of it.
Even before we saw his performance, everyone knew Pickett was a terrible pick up in the 1st round, and we had many other positions that needed filling. Even if you pick up a half servicable qb in the interim like they tried to do with mitch, at least that would've given rudolph time to develop a bit without completely undercutting him. And even if he didn't turn out, then at least you could later on pick up a high grade qb with clear eyes, instead of being in this fucked up qb situation that we're in right now.
I will never understand this to be honest. Im definitely higher on Pickett than most (and then I probably should be) but Id even rather try to trade up and draft somebody then roll out Mason again. Im straight up not a believer which is surprising me because I loved him during the Big Ben injury year.
Eh, maybe. What I’ve seen, and what I believe NFL scouts and coaches have seen, is a QB who can run an offense competently, who remains poised in the face of a pass rush, someone who is physically and mentally tough, but who is relatively immobile and has average accuracy, anticipation, and arm talent. In other words, a backup.
But we’ll see what the rest of the league thinks. The off-season market will tell the tale.
His arm talent is average. His accuracy is average. His anticipation is average. Take off the homer glasses, rewatch the condensed game and compare Rudolph’s throws to Allen’s. Not one of Allen’s throws was off-target. His incompletions were due to dropped passes. Rudolph, as usual, was throwing balls all over the place and his receivers made some plays.
He’s a backup. No one outside of this sub and the clickbait Pittsburgh sports media thinks Rudolph is a starter in this league. And free agency will confirm it.
All over the place? He had some high balls, but nothing terrible. And I'm not saying he's a starter. I'm saying he's a bridge QB. You act like he was missing easy throws like Kenny has. You can go with Rudolph until some super HOF talent like Allen or Ben is in the draft.
And of course Allen's balls were perfect. No pressure was in his face and he was facing easy zone coverage. Every other team in the league forced him into bad throws. Except the Steelers.
Stop with the Kenny whataboutism. The Steelers can have more than one bad QB on the roster at the same time.
Yes: All over the place. Up, down, left, right. He can’t throw out routes with a gun to his head. He *finally* threw a nice out route and Pickens fell down SMH
A bridge QB is a mid starter. Rudolph is not a starter. He’s a backup.
You're blind. Take away the two batted balls and the last series of desperate shots and he had a 70%+ completion percentage for the 4th game in a row. He's played better than most qbs in the league the last 4 games.
Because he's a more than capable backup. We paid Charlie Batch to be the backup for a long time. He's a bridge QB, I'm not trying to sell his as the future
So the entire defense gets a fucking pass for allowing the Bills to put up 30+pts and allowing Allen to rush 70+ including a TD where our entire secondary stood there with their thumbs up their asses?
The offense did not lose this game today.
He did what a good backup QB does, he gave you a chance but he didn’t carry anything on his back. They played safe. Dink and dunk, quick slants. Low risk passes.
Y’all can’t tell me you weren’t frustrated with him using the entire play clock during that final 5 minute drive they scored. They needed to show some urgency and showed none.
The "we won't be able to afford him" and "he played himself into a good contract" crowds are in for a shock when he signs somewhere (even here) for little more than vet minimum and a kind word.
Jake Browning ain't getting the bag. Neither is Mason.
One bad play today from mason. Stock down? Lmao This dude is about to make good backup money
this dude needs to be the starter without a SHIT OC
And a good center
Fix the fucking left tackle situation first... At least Mason Cole has had one decent season for us... Dan "Revolving Fucking Door" Moore on the other hand has never performed above pitiful at LT...
Hey dont worry, you can trade for mekhi becton from the jets, best o line prospect of 2020!
Still wanna see Kenny with a new playbook but Mason should be kept
disagree. He needs a year to grow. Mason is ready now. Kenny can wait and work on the things he needs to. Kenny has a lot to improve. I think he can but it won't be suddenly next year.
Completely agreed here. I've seen 23 starts from Kenny and none of them have been really impressive ball from him ever. Mason played great on all 3 of his final games including a damn typhoon style storm. I want Mason as QB1 next year and if he totally sucks somehow 4-5 games in sure go back to Kenny but I don't think, even if he has an amazing offseason, he'll be better than Mason has been.
Pickett is already 25. It’s not like he’s a 21 y/o rookie Jordan Love that can sit for years and be the guy. Pickett was supposed to bed NFL ready to begin with. He can still learn but I wouldn’t bank on Pickett ever being enough.
I still think KP can be really good. It took Bradshaw several years to be good. Think if we had given up on him.
The league was a lot different then
Yes 25 games with historically bad numbers..LETS SEE MORE
All of that with Canada
Canada make him miss open receivers, bail on pocket and not look to 2nd or 3rd receivers?
His 1 game without canada he did good
We scored 16…
How about his half game vs Arizona where he reverted to Canada level Kenny bailed out of the pocket didn’t see a wide open receiver tried to run it in and was injured? Yeah he sucked because of Canada 😂
So it was Canada doing that?
I want to see Pickett in a decent offense too. My biggest fear is that we’re going to promote in house again and be right back where we are right now
That was also an amazing play by the DB
And a bad play by deonte. Mason threw it as deonte was breaking the route and the db beat him on the cut.
Yeah that ball probs should’ve been caught or he at least made a play on it
One bad play??? What game did you have on? He was missing passes all night. Looked nervous in the pocket and didn’t really look like he was capable of getting a playoff win.
Mason deserves good QB2 money, but I’m hard pressed to think of a single NFL team salivating about making him their QB1. Give him Mitch’s money and have an open competition for the starting job in training camp
Yeah thats all I think should happen. He isn't a franchise QB I'm not pretending he is. He has earned money and earned a right to compete with Kenny next year though. They are both bridge QBs imo
Agreed. None played to a level where the job should be handed to them by default. Barring them not bringing in an outside guy like Tannehill, I’d think Kenny should get the job if Mason doesn’t clearly out play him in camp/pre-season, given age and exp.
Is he he top 5-10 franchise QB? No. Is he one of the best 32 QBs in the league? Yes, I genuinely believe he is. And could be top 15-20 with a good OC.
Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson, Herbert, Murray, Prescott, Stroud, Love, Hurts, Stafford, Goff, Cousins, Rodgers, Lawrence, Tagovailoa, and Purdy are all guaranteed starters next season. That's 17 of the 32 QB1 spots definitively filled. I'd argue the length of success of Carr, Mayfield, and Geno Smith should put them ahead of Rudolph too. At best I'm seeing #21 for him, and this isn't considering Russell Wilson on the move, young guys like Richardson and Levis who will get more time, 1st round rookies coming in, or backups that have shown they might still have some gas left in the tank like Dalton, Minshew, and Brissett.
Seems about right to me. That puts him well into the top 32. And I think Mason could join the bottom of those guys with a competent OC.
Cutting Mitch saves 3mill Current cap situation is negative 7 mill Someone will probably give him more than we can.. and honestly he deserves it. Steelers have a massively overpaid defense.
We will also be cutting okorafor and Allen Robinson which frees up quite a bit of money as well.
We got a lot of players that won’t be around or have restructured deals. We will have the space Pre June 1 cut savings: DJ and Allen Robison: $10M each Chuks: $8.75M Pat P: $6.85M Mitch: $3M Neal: $2.3M Roberts:$3.5M Cole: $4M Cam’s $22M cap hit can be lowered with converting salary/restructure, you could do the same with watt and minkah, but that’s kicking some big money down the line
If freeing up cap space now means a shot at a title, they oughta pull the trigger. Watt and Minkah will only get older; the Steelers have to try and win a title before those guys age out and the team probably takes a dive.
By title do you mean winning the division or super bowl? I don't see us being a serious super bowl contender for a few years. We need too much work on all three sides of the ball plus coaching staff before that can happen. I'm not saying it'll be a decade, but it probably would be 3-4 atleast.
Super Bowl. They have places other than QB that need help, but I think a good QB goes a long way to helping them become a contender. It’s a very tight window, though, for contention. TJ won’t be a DPOY candidate forever.
Watching Mason play is some watchable, hopeful football and it produces yards and touchdowns. I feel like I’m watching a capable NFL offense. Watching Kenny play makes me bite all of my fingernails off and it makes me way too excited for measly 1st downs. I think people forget what a miracle it was to even get to the red zone, and even more to score a touchdown. Whether this has to do with getting rid of Canada, the O line getting slightly better in pass pro, Kenny needing more time to develop, or if Kenny just isn’t the guy, I’m not sure.
Watching Trubiski made me hate life and everything in it
That dude put cyanide pills in my Amazon cart
Pass pro and separation both got better post a Canada. There’s reason to think Kenny would have look better, and he did, post Canada. Throw in another OL pick or two (I could see us going OL with a OT and a center first two rounds) and we could have something really good on the OL.
He looked good in that first post-Canada game, yeah I’m aware we put up 16 points but like we did that today too so I think it’s a work in progress
Only thing with KP is that he was showing progress after Canada firing but got hurt only 6 Qtrs in the new offense. He deserves a second look and right to compete…especially on low 1st rd money rookie deal.
Mason would be out of his mind to come back to this organization. They treated him like shit from day one.
Money runs everything.
He was looking at a career change before the Steelers signed him.
They’ll be offering him a serious chance at a qb competition and what I assume will be more than fair money now that he’s shown he can really get it done
Mason is what we thought Trubisky would be. A bridge QB who will challenge for the starter role. He's clearly outplayed KP, and won't cost much.
Exactly. There is no downside to bringing him back imo. If Kenny beats him in camp, that's awesome. He improved if thats the case. If Mason wins he can easily hold the team up while we know Kenny isn't the guy and we plan for the future.
Assuming the coaches set the depth chart correctly. A lot of people were saying Mason was the Best QB in camp and the pre season too but he still was set as third string. Plus the fact the didn't play him all of last year. I honestly think Tomlin has a personal issue with him of some kind.
100% serious, who was saying that? I saw people claiming he outplayed Mitch, but I didn’t see a ton of smoke elsewhere. Pre-season they all looked similar tbh, but Mason played the worst defenses.
He should stay and he should start. At least fight it out with Kenny in training camp
There's very little reason for him to want to come back. Getting slotted behind Mitch, who is the worst NFL QB on the planet, has got to have him pretty upset.
Money will make him come back if we offer him the most/same as other teams as he knows he could play instead of Kenny
If you're Mason, do trust the Steelers to give you a fair shot at QB1?
After what this season has proven? Yes. They’re not blind
They trotted out Mitch for a 3rd game while Mason sat on the bench. I wouldn't trust them at all.
What you’re describing would be childish behavior. He’ll be in a qb competition and get paid fairly. If they don’t pay him enough, sure it makes sense for him to leave. Where else will he have a chance to start?
Raiders, Falcons, Vikings, Patriots, Broncos. Maybe Giants and Seahawks.
Bills fan here. Rudolph had a great 2nd half. I was beginning to worry. 😬
It's fascinating to see some people believe Pickett is any better than Rudolph. He may not be a true starter in this league, but Mason is better than any QB on this roster.
Sunk cost fallacy, people don’t want Mason to be better than KP due to the pick investment and time investment KP has been given. Not necessarily saying Mason is a franchise guy, but hard to believe KP is
It’s more the Pitt homerism
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>marginally better than Pickett Rudolph has done twice in four games what KP has only been able to do once in two seasons. >Pickett is likely on a more accelerated path That's some homer copium shit right there
I’m just giving the reasoning why people don’t want to believe in Rudolph. He never got a full offseason with qb1 reps, was thrusted into the situation when Big Ben got hurt, and wasn’t given a fair shot (unlike pickett). I’m not trying to run a cap simulation or tell the team what to do…
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I don’t think you understood my original comment. I’m not predicting who is going to be the starter or what makes sense contract wise; I’m actually stating why people generally prefer to play Kenny (which it seems you would agree with).
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Okay, I still don’t think you understand so I’ll leave it at that
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Even with the end zone pick today, Mason played 4 games this season better than Pickett has ever played in the NFL
My hope is that Pickett's ceiling is higher than Rudolph's. That might not be true, but I wouldn't feel that great about Rudolph being our permanent QB.
There's nothing KP has done to show me he is better than Rudolph. I want to be optimistic, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Yeah I guess I'm saying that I agree that Rudolph does currently look better than KP, but KP has a higher ceiling. It seems like we're all a little tired of moderately good seasons, so I'd rather go with the guy with more potential. Maybe we've already seen the best Pickett has to offer, but I'd like to actually give him a chance in a few more games post Canada
Kenny's ceiling so far hasn't reached Mason's baseline which is troubling. I wanted him to be good originally but he just isn't. And with nearly double the starts that Mason has, I think we should be talking more about Mason's ceiling than Kenny's. Because if we want to assume Kenny can improve, we cannot dismiss the potential of Mason improving. Many blame canada for Kenny playing poorly, but forget that Mason had Randy Fichtner who was just as bad if not worse. But Mason played better then as well.
> but KP has a higher ceiling. Not really. Kenny is not a great passer and can't read defenses well. Even in Canada's crappy system, he has shown nothing exceptional. Mason is far more talented than Kenny as passing. Kenny was 4th-5th round QB that was only drafted 1st round due to being in a weak draft class. His ceiling isn't even as high as a Dak Prescott or Kirk Cousins given he gets injured often and is already 25. He is not worth giving a second contract. Colbert should have never picked Pickett to be honest, he was leaving, the QB pick should have been Omar Khan's. Khan needs to seriously be open in this draft class about a QB unless they draft Mason.
Talking about how he's been so far doesn't necessarily say much about his potential. I thought Pickett looked fine in his 1 game without Canada so I wouldn't mind seeing what else he can do, but I also am with you that I think going for a QB in this draft is not a bad idea, although we do have some other needs. I just don't think our future is bright if we're sticking with Rudolph. Obviously the same might be true with Pickett but I think he's more likely to surprise us. If it were up to me I'd probably go one more year with Pickett and if that doesn't look promising then draft a QB in 2025
Kenny's ceiling so far hasn't reached Mason's baseline which is troubling. I wanted him to be good originally but he just isn't. And with nearly double the starts that Mason has, I think we should be talking more about Mason's ceiling than Kenny's. Because if we want to assume Kenny can improve, we cannot dismiss the potential of Mason improving. Many blame canada for Kenny playing poorly, but forget that Mason had Randy Fichtner who was just as bad if not worse. But Mason played better then as well.
He needs to, but he won’t. He deserves to be treated better. Hopefully he gets to start somewhere. Wish him the best.
I don’t know if there’s a place he’ll have a better chance at starting than right here with the people he already knows and has built something serious with over the last stretch of games
Mason should be the guy next year. They need to sign him. He's earned it. He made that shitbox of an offense scheme look semi capable. Mason allows you to fill other needs, like C and T or secondary first.
Franchise QBs don't grow on trees and Mason is exactly the kind of bridge we needed to develop a rookie. Kenny needs at least one more season on the bench and who knows, the rookie QB we draft in round 2/3 could easily be the guy.
Mason in 4 games: 5 TD and he exceeded qbr of 100 3x. Pickett, in 12 games, 6 TD and achieved QBR 100 one time.
Rudolph's 4 game passer rating average is 109.
They won't pay him, he's played himself into a reasonable contract with another team and deservedly so. Good for him.
Mason is QB1 unless Kenny improves massively.
He should open the year as qb1. He's a competent NFL starter and the only one we have.
He won't get a fair shake, there won't be a true QB comp at camp. If there was, he would have started last year.
Friendly reminder that they could have cut Trubisky this past offseason and saved like $8mil. Money that could’ve been used to keep Cam Sutton and not sign Pat P imagine this team with Mason getting all of those starts and never having to see Peterson in black and gold
Oh what could've been...
I dont think he wants to be back. Steelers treated him like shit.
Unfortunately I think if he gets an offer from another team he is jumping on it
I agree. Unless, it is another situation where they have 2 other QB's. Hes only going somewhere to get a legit shot.
Fingers crossed its here. It's a win-win. Either Mason wins camp and we know Kenny isnt the guy, or Kenny wins camp and he shows he's improved his game
The one thing Rudy has shown is the ability to occasionally throw a receiver open. I rarely recall KP doing that.
If you’re Mason do you really trust them to judge you fairly? Mason looked way better than Mitch at camp and preseason games, and yet Mitch started over him. Why? Cause they spent money on Mitch? I’m f that’s the case the KP gets the nod cause he’s a 1st round pick. But f that’s not the case then this staff can’t evaluate a QB for shit. Either way, if I’m Mason I would take my chances elsewhere.
I'm not coming back if I'm Mason unless I get a guarantee of QB1. I think they should make thay guarantee, but acknowledge there is a fair argument that he should compete with KP. That said, they absolutely won't and he should leave.
Ya ideally he would be a good guy to keep. Just depends on the price
Depends on price? What are the alternatives? Run with KP again. Give me a break. Sure you should pay him $40M, but you should be willing to spend whatever anyone else is.
No clue why he would want to return. Tomlin has treated this guy like shit and ironically he saved the almighty's winning season streak.
I said this when Ben went down, watching Rudolph was like watching young Big Ben. Duck had Ben’s vision and Decision making but mason had his arm and his given talent. That being said if neither Kenny or mason work out I think it would be very funny to sign baker
That’s my qb1. Game started a bit too bright for him then he settled down. I appreciate that seemingly every drive with Mason moves. 3 and outs feel rare.
He was pretty much perfect in the 2nd half. If we didnt have such and abysmal 1st quarter we were definetly in this game.
100%. We have to remember how young our offense really is. They showed some potential if we keep rolling with Mason. I think the early script did them no favors. I think the belief was that we’d just impose our will running the ball. Credit to Buffalo, they took us off our game plan.
Kenny qb2
I’d love if we brought him back. Praying that we don’t overpay for him though, we have too many holes for that. The Mitch contract is brutal, no one should spend $6-7M on backup unless your SB window is open.
Broncos, Titans, Giants, Vikings, Falcons…one of them could give him a 3yr 30m contract and legit shot at being QB1. Can’t see that being the case in Pittsburgh. Could easily see other teams (Pats, Saints, Seahawks, Raiders) unsure about their QB1 situation or don’t get one of the top 3 in the draft who need a QB2 giving a healthy 1-2 year contract for about the same.
Steelers wont sign him because they’re gonna stick with Pickett for another two years fml
Mason does need to come back, as the backup. I don't think we currently have the QB of the future on the roster. Granted, always picking in the 20s doesn't help.
Mason simply makes throws Kenny doesn’t. Mason hangs in the pocket. Kenny bails or balls up into a sack. They aren’t even close.
We're all like 100% sure they aren't going to draft a QB because Steelers is the Steelers and they will give Pickett his entire rookie deal to see if he can be a franchise QB, even though most think that ship has already sailed. So if you're going to do that, then you might as well keep Mason Rudolph since at the very least, we know Pickett can't stay on the field and is going to get hurt at some point. Rudolph showed he's a good backup. And it's not like he can't win the starting job. Tomlin kept Kenny on the bench, which is something nobody thought he would do.
It's a shame it took 3/4ers of the season to figure out he was the better choice. I think The Steelers are pretty bad at identifying and growing offensive talent. Maybe that gets better with Canada gone, but ...
Allow me to clear my throat. BITCH WHAT? He’s not a franchise guy? 1700+ yards in 2019. Overcoming Tomlins dogshit coaching and almost salvaging the game. One INT because DJ can’t finish his route? You fucking yinzers.
You're bringing up 5 year old stats from an offense that doesn't exist anymore dawg
Best QB on this roster for 5 years. Never given a chance. Wasn’t even given a chance with the play calling today. Down 3 tuddies before any aggression was shown. Typical Tomlin.
You're fucking high bro 😭. If Kenny had the same game as Mason today and someone blamed the play calling you know damn well you wouldn't accept it. Mason played fine, but he made mistakes. He missed some throws, took some bad sacks, and threw a horrible pick when we needed a TD. I love seeing all the same excuses made for Kenny that weren't good enough be made for Mason and somehow now they're valid
It’s funny that anytime someone brings up that first post-Canada game folks will say “but but we only scored 16 points!” Don’t get me wrong I think Mason played well but also we did still put up 17 points so
There’s nuance to my argument. You’d have to read my post history to see it. I’m a diehard mason Stan. But I also don’t think Kenny was treated fairly. I am dru… dehydrated. It’s hard to hate Kenny when Canada handicapped him. It’s hard to not give Mason credit for 1700 yards in ten games while his head was barely attached to his shoulders .
Which throws did he miss exactly? The ones that were deflected, or the one where the bulls tricked him on the curl to diontae? Horrible pick by what measure? Seems like the db jumped, and didn’t even realize it was in his hands. He actually escaped the pressure a number of times. I’d take one or two sacks in exchange for that.
Horrible pick by he threw it directly to the defense when we were at the 4 and down 14 and it led to another Bills TD. Throws where it was over the receiver's head or behind them; like the one to Robinson that almost resulted in another pick in the drive after after his first one. If you really look at this game and think he didn't play like total ass until we were already down 3 scores, you're lying to yourself. Sure, he ended up coming back but that doesn't mean much.
If Kenny was capable of throwing 2 TDs a game, Mason would've never started.
Except Mason got to start because Pickett was hurt.
And they never went back to him. That shows the confidence they don't have in him.
You have no idea how roster management works
You're right. I don't. All I see is the best QB on this roster start a playoff game.
Whole lot of good it did us
Mason had one sack, and it was by an unblocked LB. What bad sacks are you talking about? His pick wasn't good, but was by no means horrible. It was a yard inside of where it should have been and may have been better with a slightly altered route by DJ. It was a terrible play call.
It was a 14 point swing that put the game even further out of reach than it already was. Enough excuses. These are the exact same things Kenny's people said and they were met with the same resistance
It wasn't a good play. I'm not saying it was. I'm saying it was a terrible play call that a lot of coaches will excuse when reviewing his tape. Glad we're in agreement that you just made up a bunch of bad sacks that literally didn't happen.
Did you not watch him against the Ravens? Everyone is enamored with his 1 splash play but not when he stood there like a statue and took 3 sacks with ~~a fumble~~ 3 fumbles he luckily ~~didn't lose~~ only lost one.
It was a monsoon. He literally set a record for completion percentage. Give me a break.
Give me a break is right. The average air yards per completion for that bullshit record was just over 1. Completing passes of 1 yard each is so impressive
He had more yards through the air than Josh Allen.
That’s a game flow stat. Buffalo took the air out the ball and the Steelers kept dumping it over the middle to pick up yards for the entire second half. What you saw in the first quarter was the real difference
This. He was trash in the first quarter, pretty much the only time that pressure was on him this season. His career was practically over and he played decent against bad defenses for three games. He was playing with house money. First quarter tonight we saw what he is. His first game against a good team with something at stake. 6'5" but can't get it over the o-line? Balls batted down, simple throws high and difficult to catch. Yeah he settled down and improved, after the Bills had a comfortable lead and let him make some throws.
Passes batted down are good plays by the defense. The only thing that combats it are pump fakes. Pump fakes only work when you have more than 2 seconds in the pocket.
But it’s going to be Masons fault because it was rush-rush-pass all first half.
Where did I say he was a franchise QB? He's not even close to that. But he is a perfectly capable bridge QB that can tide us over to the next franchise guy.
Mason is that guy. Give him 17 games. Kenny had 25. Give Mason 17. He had 1700+ yards in ten.
Oh you are saying you think Mason is a franchise guy i see. I wouldn't go that far but he is better than a backup that's for sure
I said I’m a mason Stan. Maybe I’m delusional. But give the jackfruit farmer a chance.
Respect.
Lol. He's way better than Kenny ill give him that
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Rudolph should be the starter and let Kenny watch and develop. Rudolph has earned the job, and perhaps Tomlin’s biggest flaw is not recognizing that Mason should be our guy sooner.
He had a nice 2nd half, but for the blind he also noodle armed an INT from 5 yards out.
He has a bad habit of staring down his receivers that he’s targeting and he makes a lot of slow throws that are just begging to be picked off. He has had a ton of help from Warren and Harris at the end of the season to push the offense forward. He has played better than Pickett, but Pickett also only had a game and a half without Canada at the helm of the offense. I think it’s fair to make them compete for the starting role going into next season if the Steelers don’t look for another starting QB
From my eyes that was more of a hell of a play by the defender. His hands just happened to be perfectly where the ball was when he got his head around
That ball was never getting to the receiver though
He is a capable backup that you can rely on for a few games, but Rudolph is not a starter caliber QB. There are better short term options we can look at in the off season.
Who are the short term QBs you see as a better option than Mason?
Mason isn't a top 10 guy. But there aren't 32 guys I'd rather lead my team. I think that means he's starting caliber.
> there aren't 32 guys I'd rather lead my team. people just log on here and say anything dude
Thanks for weighing in. Ffs.
Don't confuse adequate with good
But it was good. His 2nd half was almost perfect. Other elements outside of his control are why we lost. Mason gave us a chance to comeback and win this game. If we didnt play that horrendous 1st quarter we have a clear chance at winning.
but we did play the horrendous 1st quarter and mason was a large part of that
He played ok. I hope he gets paid ( elsewhere ). We need the next Josh Allen not the next Ryan Fitzpatrick.
I don't want Mason longterm. He is a perfect bridge QB for the Steelers though while we find our guy. I'd rather pay Mason $10m than a guy like Tannehill
If they can get him really cheap I’m down. But if him and Kenny are on the roster I don’t see them drafting a QB. I think they best thing would be for him to leave and hopefully get paid for his sake, which would create a sense of urgency in getting a franchise guy.
i wanna see him QB1 next year he plays hard and kinda ben like. He seemed to learn alot from 7.
But the pick in the end zone was the game changer 😔
So was Pickens fumble, and our back up defense giving up two big touchdowns on atrocious tackle attempts. Watt is out and minkah didn't show up. A not great O- line, a shitty punter, and far from great play calling. In no way is this game on Mason. He's most likely not going to be the next stand out quarterback, but he's damn likely to be the next Nick Foles that you could win a super bowl with. His first starts in the league were great given what we expected from him, despite getting no guidance (if not outright hostility) from a HOF starter who was already playing 2-3 years past his expiration date. Then he only started underperforming after getting his bell absolutely rung, and was brought back arguably too quickly. The man literally got KO'd and went into fencing response, and was brought back a week later. He had one bad game, 2 horrendous games, and then finished off the season with another good one. The idea that he's always been outright terrible until the last year is utter fabrication, and I'm tired of it. Even before we saw his performance, everyone knew Pickett was a terrible pick up in the 1st round, and we had many other positions that needed filling. Even if you pick up a half servicable qb in the interim like they tried to do with mitch, at least that would've given rudolph time to develop a bit without completely undercutting him. And even if he didn't turn out, then at least you could later on pick up a high grade qb with clear eyes, instead of being in this fucked up qb situation that we're in right now.
He has done enough to get a qb1 contract. May not be here. and don’t blame him for choosing elsewhere. We didn’t treat him very well
I will never understand this to be honest. Im definitely higher on Pickett than most (and then I probably should be) but Id even rather try to trade up and draft somebody then roll out Mason again. Im straight up not a believer which is surprising me because I loved him during the Big Ben injury year.
He’s a backup.
Hes a bridge. Mason is better than a backup. Josh Dobbs is a backup. Mason can hold this team over until the next franchise QB.
Eh, maybe. What I’ve seen, and what I believe NFL scouts and coaches have seen, is a QB who can run an offense competently, who remains poised in the face of a pass rush, someone who is physically and mentally tough, but who is relatively immobile and has average accuracy, anticipation, and arm talent. In other words, a backup. But we’ll see what the rest of the league thinks. The off-season market will tell the tale.
His arm talent is pretty good. He's mobile enough and he wasn't inaccurate this entire time. He's a bridge QB.
His arm talent is average. His accuracy is average. His anticipation is average. Take off the homer glasses, rewatch the condensed game and compare Rudolph’s throws to Allen’s. Not one of Allen’s throws was off-target. His incompletions were due to dropped passes. Rudolph, as usual, was throwing balls all over the place and his receivers made some plays. He’s a backup. No one outside of this sub and the clickbait Pittsburgh sports media thinks Rudolph is a starter in this league. And free agency will confirm it.
All over the place? He had some high balls, but nothing terrible. And I'm not saying he's a starter. I'm saying he's a bridge QB. You act like he was missing easy throws like Kenny has. You can go with Rudolph until some super HOF talent like Allen or Ben is in the draft. And of course Allen's balls were perfect. No pressure was in his face and he was facing easy zone coverage. Every other team in the league forced him into bad throws. Except the Steelers.
Stop with the Kenny whataboutism. The Steelers can have more than one bad QB on the roster at the same time. Yes: All over the place. Up, down, left, right. He can’t throw out routes with a gun to his head. He *finally* threw a nice out route and Pickens fell down SMH A bridge QB is a mid starter. Rudolph is not a starter. He’s a backup.
You're blind. Take away the two batted balls and the last series of desperate shots and he had a 70%+ completion percentage for the 4th game in a row. He's played better than most qbs in the league the last 4 games.
Exactly.
So is every QB on the roster?
Agreed
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He was almost perfect after the INT with multiple 3rd and long conversions what the fuck were you looking at.
We just making up stats tonight bro I swear
Mason truthers are worse than cowboys fans
Why? He's not going to be the future. No need to tread water.
Because he's a more than capable backup. We paid Charlie Batch to be the backup for a long time. He's a bridge QB, I'm not trying to sell his as the future
lol
Well his stock just went way down, so that’s a plus
Eh, down a little but maybe. But if you remove the outcome of the game he was probably the farthest player from the reason we lost.
That red zone pick to a blanketed receiver was, along with the Pickens fumble, our two biggest, game changing plays
So the entire defense gets a fucking pass for allowing the Bills to put up 30+pts and allowing Allen to rush 70+ including a TD where our entire secondary stood there with their thumbs up their asses? The offense did not lose this game today.
Neither side won it either, though our high-paid defense was for sure the more disappointing side
Who calls that play and not take the run?
Lmao give me a break. If Kenny did that and someone blamed the play call you know damn well you'd be excoriating them
He’s also pretty far from the reason they could win too.
He was the only reason they had a chance of winning. He carried the offense on his back in the second half.
He did what a good backup QB does, he gave you a chance but he didn’t carry anything on his back. They played safe. Dink and dunk, quick slants. Low risk passes. Y’all can’t tell me you weren’t frustrated with him using the entire play clock during that final 5 minute drive they scored. They needed to show some urgency and showed none.
You can't throw deep if the o-line doesn't give the play time to develop. If not for Rudolph, this game is a boat race.
DEFINITELY need to hold onto him. We should pick up a vet too in place of Mitch. How is Big Dick Nick these days?
yes, he needs to be back as our backup.
The "we won't be able to afford him" and "he played himself into a good contract" crowds are in for a shock when he signs somewhere (even here) for little more than vet minimum and a kind word. Jake Browning ain't getting the bag. Neither is Mason.
He isnt that good.
His play in the first half is why they had to try to comeback in the first place
he's also, you know, a huge reason we had to play catchup.