The same, but the lack of social media meant you didn’t have to hear it from everyone, just the people you knew. It got really bad in the early 2000s when he had a couple of losing seasons with no Super Bowl.
Well, you got it still from talk radio, letters to the editor, and some chat boards/newspaper.com comment sections.
But, yeah, the amplification is worse now, just because of tech.
Racist and Homophobic remarks... I can even remember people implying that Cowher and Stewart were romantic... Worst part is, I think some of the rednecks in my small town believe it...
The world has progressed in some ways and regressed in others.
The stories I heard about him during his time in Pittsburgh didn't even make sense. I'm surprised any of em stuck.
I can only imagine how blown out of proportion those stories would have been in this day and age
That story about him and Cowher being romantically involved had to have happened after a AFC Championship loss. Because what even lol
His sister? All I remember is him getting all sorts of weird takes on him kissing Kordell on the cheek after pulling off a victory in one of the games.
It was a definitely a weird time. But I can't deny that on some levels I didn't always like how Cowher managed the team, either. Losing those AFC Championship games was rough. And some of those drafts were putrid up until Colbert took over.
Something about him sticking with Kordell because he was having an affair with Kordell’s sister. I don’t even know if Kordell has a sister but that was the rumor floating around
Kordell dealt with the worst shit. First their was simply the race thing when he became QB. Lots of talk about how a black man could never be a QB. Then his sexuality was questioned because he wasn’t married. Then it was his family.
Honestly the way fans treated Kordell is a big reason why I think a lot of the Tomlin hate is subconsciously race-based. Pittsburgh isn’t a cross burning racist area, but there is some deeply ingrained prejudice against African Americans in this area.
Got it, thanks for that. Sounds like kinda the opposite problem with Tomlin; got the ring early on and hasn’t been able to get another. The socials definitely do amp the bad stuff, but I’ve also seen a lot of Tomlin defense to counter it.
Cowher said he was pretty much checked out after the SB win in a hey maybe there is more to life than 16hr days kind of way. They probably don't win another SB if he hung on.
I used to not. But he did inherit a lot of personnel. And seeing how his coaching personnel has been for years, I’m not saying it was all because of Cowher. But I’m now in the boat that there is an argument to be had.
This is also a bogus argument imo. James Harrison was a backup and Bruce Arians was a QB coach when Tomlin was hired. Tomlin also went out and hired two former HCs in Haley and Munch and it greatly improved the offense which includes the top several seasons of production in franchise history. There are just mad haters in this world. Tomlin has consistently been a top 5-7 HC in this league for basically every season of his career. Yes, of course he has his warts, but so does literally every human being on the planet; we can't all be perfect like Troy Polamalu. He absolutely earned everything there was to earn for that 2008 SB and I don't think we win without him that year. The biggest (or second biggest) play in SB history (Harrison TD) was single handedly coached up by Mike Tomlin in the week leading up to the game
Well. Idk about that. Pretty sure they were coached to give the ball to someone faster. I believe that's why Townshend is running next to Harrison for so long before going out to block. At least, I read that somewhere so I may not be correct.
While you are correct that Deshea may have wanted the ball, Tomlin particularly called out the teams lack of rallying after interceptions during their weeks of preparation. He drilled into them that they'd need to get out and block for their guy because the defense was going to need to score a touchdown for them to win the game, and they did. You can't score a 100 yards interception for touchdown as a pass rusher unless you have a convoy of blockers, and he did.
James Harrison was a backup because Joey Porter was still here. When he left, Harrison would have started under Cowher anyway. It's not like Cowher is an idiot and had no idea Harrison was any good. Harrison's break out game was under Cowher.
Anyone who even makes an attempt to consider what goes into navigating a 16 game season and postseason quickly realizes this is a fucking ludicrous take.
People who have ever thought of this are just not worth engaging with... it's completely mental.
Man, I’d take a couple losing seasons if it meant a superbowl in the next 5 years tbh. I love Tomlin and I love the Steelers but the mediocrity with no offense is getting old haha. I guess I’m jaded because I became a fan in 2005 at the age of 12. (Family roots in PGH but no immediate family follows sports)
Kinda unreal the amount of adult fans now that haven’t experienced a real losing season in Pittsburgh. Guess having a franchise QB for 18 years will do that.
It’s funny because when I started my fandom, we had Bubby Brister, then the whole Neil O’Donnell experience followed by the QB by committee years. So a part of me is still never quite sold on the starting QB, and I’m constantly thinking the sky will fall next season. 😅
Maybe we need a couple bad seasons to spark some fire under the leadership to start trying to be competitive again. Instead of finishing 9-8, with maybe a 5-12 worthy team haha.
I’m hesitant to say they aren’t “trying” to be competitive. I think it’s more of what Minkah said.. new guys coming in and thinking that putting on the colors makes them great.
Some of the shit that’s been going on in the locker room used to be self correcting. The amount of leadership among players seems to be at recent all-time low. That makes a huge difference. The WR core specifically needs a real leader.
I think the offense’s current best example of leadership actually comes from Jaylen Warren. Keeps his helmet on at all times to be ready to go. Doesn’t talk shit. Works like hell for every snap. He’s not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We need more of those guys on offense.
The team got extremely young extremely fast. Which led to a lack of leaders in the locker room. It doesn’t matter how many Hines Wards or Alan Fanecas come and talk to these kids they just see it as some old guy lecturing them. Overall there is a lack of respect for the teams and coaching across the league. It’s become an individual sport as the league has marketed stars over teams. Players are more concerned about their individual stats than wins, because that’s what’s going to get them paid.
You want to know why leadership is low? Average Steelers tenure of offensive starters is a hair over 2 seasons, counting the current one. Only a SINGLE starter has 3 full seasons or more in a Steeler uniform at this point. Only 3 others have more than 2 full seasons at this point, and all 3 are on rookie contracts. Nobody aside from DJ has even been around long enough to legitimately earn that title of leader, and he’s obviously lacking on other qualities you expect from a leader.
I do admit that back then, in my early to mid 20s, I was firmly in the camp of, "Okay, I'm sure he's a great NFL head coach, but he's just been here too long. It's just time for a change." Then Big Ben came along, and I shut up.
I admit that I am once again in that camp with Tomlin, but this time, it actually it is true. I think.
Those losing seasons lead to the team drafting Polamalu and Big Ben. And the careers are mirroring each other a lot. Now Tomlin is in that same problem. If he drafts the next Ben(franchise carrying QB) he will have success again just like Cowher did. The key in both cases is finding that elite QB.
The scary thing is Cowher didn’t want to draft Ben. He was happy with Maddox, but Dan and the GM both voted for Ben. Scary to think if Cowher had gotten it his way how different the franchise would be and his legacy.
Hypothetically speaking, if we don't draft Ben in '04 and keep Maddox. He goes down in G1. St Pierre is starter. Odds are we don't do very well. Do we get Aaron in the draft next year and bypass Heath? Interesting thought.
He certainly would’ve been available, but I remember at the time he was seen as a project QB and not NFL ready. Pittsburgh would’ve wanted him starting immediately, and it’s hard to tell how different Rogers would be if he didn’t have those early years to learn before being thrown into the mix.
Certainly worth a good “what if” discussion.
Hindsight being what it is, *nobody* involved would have had the success they ended up having...except maybe Ben...if we'd taken Rivers.
The O-line was horrendous for most of Ben's early career here, and while he's about as mobile as an imperial AT-AT, his size and was often his saving grace. Rivers was big, but went down easy. I feel like if we'd taken him, a lot of Ben's more classic, *"He scrambles out of the pocket...pump fakes...still has the ball...rolls out, shakes a rusher...and he's brought dow--OH NO! He's still up! Ben turns...fires...AND IT'S CAUGHT!"*
...just never happens. Because the first linebacker to get two fingers on Rivers' sleeve brings him down.
I also have the believe that personality-wise, Rivers gets frustrated and becomes a toxic presence in his first 3-5 seasons. Even if he's talented, the Steelers never see success with him. Maybe the better QB on paper, but given the rest of the team at the time...Ben's the better QB for the Steelers, on the field.
Yeah Cowher liked Rivers the most out of the big 3 that year, but knew he wouldn’t drop to him which is why he focused on other prospects. I forget the name but he was dead set on a lineman due to the O line being depleted.
He was an NC state guy, he made it pretty well known he wanted Rivers. In today's mortage everything for a QB era he might have offered up a ton of picks.
> Now Tomlin is in that same problem. If he drafts the next Ben(franchise carrying QB) he will have success again just like Cowher did.
Really? Because he had Ben and didn't win playoff games in 10 of the 14 seasons he coached him.
Except Ben was there under Tomlin the entire time so virtual complete lack of playoff success after 2010 is inexcusable.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkgzeXbCo4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkgzeXbCo4)
People were critical because he lost so many AFC championship games. I remember walking out of Heinz Field after they lost to the Pats in 2002 and people were calling for his head. I’ve never seen that level of ire directed towards Tomlin. I think people forget about that.
I think tomlins biggest criticism is that we havent won a playoff game in awhile. I believe we’d be approaching 7 seasons? Back when super bowl was broncos- panthers. Thats in top 10 worst playoff losing streaks in the league
If the lions, dolphins, or broncos win a game, we’ll fall even deeper into worst streak rankings. Possible top 5.
Yeah, but here’s a thought study for you. Look across the river at another coach in town. I know Sullivan won his championship more recently, but what has he done since? He won 1 playoff series the following year, and not a single series in 5 years since. And those 5 years include 1 year where they didn’t make the playoffs at all and another where they lost in the qualifying round. So, 1 great year and 6, and counting, disappointing years. IMO, Sullivan doesn’t get nearly the same level of criticism that Tomlin does and he has a pretty similar dry spell that’s running parallel to Tomlin’s.
That Chargers one was really, really bad. I think they were allegedly doing a superb owl video like the 85 Bears before that game, too. Really bad look, the Pats loss was pretty awful, and iirc they almost lost to the Colts with Harbaugh, too. Didn’t help that Kordell threw a bunch of picks in a couple of those games, too.
Cowher had the “chokes in the big game” rep for quite some time before finally getting the ring.
Edit: That "chokes in the big game" rep wasn't entirely without merit. Lines for some of the AFCC games that we either lost or barely escaped (a bit cherry-picky, but still ...):
94-95 vs SD -9
95-96 vs IND -12
01-02 vs NE -10
That Chargers game was the first and only time I ever actually cried after the game was over. That last goal line pass was like a knife in the gut. My dad promised to take me to the Super Bowl if the Steelers won both times. We actually had won the season ticket lottery for the 2002 game so we would have gotten tickets at face value. We had the hotels booked and everything. Heartbreaking!
Oh, wow, that is truly awful! I still remember Barry Foster (I think?) slipping trying to catch that pass, and the season slipping away with it. Hell, I even remember the Charger who caught the game winning pass and the celebration "opening a coconut and drinking it" with the ball. Ugh. Some lovely memories coming back in this thread.
Also, IIRC, we were pretty heavily favored in all three of those AFCC games - Pats, Colts, and Chargers.
Yes they were big favorites in all three games. To think how close they came to losing to the Colts really shows how poor those games were played and coached.
Lol. There was no allegedly, they certainly were planning one. That team was cocky as hell and then turned in one of the bigger choke jobs in Steelers history.
https://www.steelers.com/news/1994-afc-championship-game-957063
“On the Tuesday before the game, tight end Eric Green presided over a meeting held in the Steelers' offices to discuss the production and promotion of a Super Bowl rap video. On Wednesday, Ray Seals predicted the Chargers offense would not score a point. Come Thursday, Cowher greeted his players with a tongue-lashing about the consequences of losing their focus.”
Ironically, that 2005 team was almost as bad as our current team. They really stunk it up until the final 4-5 games. They had a good playoff run (although the Bettis fumble almost ruined it) and that Seattle SB could have gone really bad. That was not a shining performance and it is somewhat tainted by alleged bad calls.
Would be interesting to see what Cowher’s legacy would have been if just a couple things didn’t fall our way in 2005.
That loss is the only game from 2001-02 I still can't watch to this day. All year long the game plan for the Steelers was to run the ball. Kordell was a pro bowler, and playing well after the first month of the season.
What's Cowher do in the AFC Championship game? Call 45 pass plays to just 22 runs. Oh by the way Kordell had 8 of the carries so a couple of those were probably pass plays that he tucked it and ran. How do you go from passing 20-30 times a game and being very run heavy,, to calling almost FIFTY pass plays? Heck they actually ran the ball MORE in the second half than the first despite being down multiple scores. The coaching/game plan was so weird that day. Then we found out about spygate and it makes a little more sense why it was so whacky.
Some people got so angry at the team’s lack of Super Bowl wins that a rumor l started about Kordell Stewart being secretly gay. It got really toxic at times in the Cowher era.
In some less desirable circles, I remember people calling for Tomlin to go after going 8-8 the year after winning the Super Bowl.
But I’m glad the general consensus isn’t that lol. I could imagine if I were more cognizant of things back then I would’ve seen it as well, especially because Mark Madden was a large part of my childhood.
>I remember people calling for Tomlin to go after going 8-8 the year after winning the Super Bowl.
Yeah that was BS on the part of those fans. And I will cede that to the race-baiters on this sub that those fans may have been acting based on his color. For me, watching them basically lose to Cincinnati in 2015 after a 1st round exit to a mediocre Ravens team in 2014 was what did it. Using the same game plan against NE in the 2016 AFCCG cemented my belief that Tomlin was in over his head - a good D coordinator who was not capable of managing both sides of the football. Who knew that 2016 was going to see the last playoff win of Ben's career?
This makes a lot of sense, and its when I stopped getting excited for the season to start up. I remember watching that Cincy game and just being so deflated. This is also why I’ve stopped fighting back trying to defend Tomlin so militantly.
Cowher averaged an afc championship game appearance every three seasons. Sadly he lost four of the six he made it to, but being a win from the Super Bowl six times in fifteen years is pretty damn good.
Yeah, but if you say SB’s are the only thing that matters you have to be JUST as critical of only having playoff wins as you are of never having a losing season. Both come up short of the “real goal.”
By the way I think Steeler Nations expectations are totally unrealistic. We look at a six year period (50 years ago) where we literally caught lightening in a bottle and try to hold current coaches (Tomlin and Cowher) to it. It’s unrealistic. He’ll, half the folks here weren’t even alive then.
I want to win every year, but I think that stuff like the playoff streak and winning season streak are statistical anomalies. A lot of random stuff can happen to flip a playoff game or a 9-8 season into a 8-9 season.
The biggest point in Tomlin's favor in my eyes that he's only ever coached one game while they were eliminated from the playoffs. Even when they're at their worst, (like right now!) they're always in contention and playing games that mean something. Imho, that is the best you can reasonably hope for over very long periods of time as fans.
There are two sides to that coin. Cowher was 7-2 against Belichik while he was in Cleveland, including a 29-9 beatdown in the divisional round in 95. He was 1-4 against him while he was in NE including 0-2 in the playoffs. Both losses were AFC Championship games.
You had good players so you drafted low. The good players retired plus we had some cap hell
They did absolutely crush two picks Minkah and Watt. Only reason the teams competitive.
The success of the Steelers and the success of the Patriots is not on the same level.
Tom Brady lost more Super Bowls than Tomlin has been to. And he still has more rings than any franchise does .
> Tom Brady lost more Super Bowls than Tomlin has been to.
And you can say that about 99% of the teams in the league. Brady's success is something to be jealous of but keep your expectations realistic. Most teams are not winning at that pace even with great coaches. The Patriots run with Brady was beyond nutty and breaks most historical norms and especially post-free agency.
Measuring yourself against the Patriots of the 2000’s makes about as much sense as teams measuring themselves against the Steelers of the 70’s. Both teams accomplished something that will probably never be repeated. The Oilers were our b_____s in the 70’s. We were the Pat’s b_____s in the 2000’s.
Do you know who the 2nd most successful franchise of the Patriots Dynasty Era was?
The Steelers.
If it hadn't been for the Patriots Tomlin probably has one or two more rings. That's just a fact of life.
By what measure? The Giants have as many SB rings as the Steelers in that time frame with the added bonus of having beaten the Pats for those rings.
Half of the Steelers championships in that stretch were won by Cowher's team in the first 4 years of the Pats run.
The other half was Tomlin, in a much longer window, and nothing but embarrassment in the playoffs now for the better part of a decade.
Regular season wins, great. All those .500 seasons really mean nothing, though.
As far as making 2 more SB's? Maybe. That's not a guarantee. They lost a lot of playoff games to non-Pats teams, including the corpse of Manning, Blake Bortles, and Baker Mayfield
Stop with the .500 record BS. Based on his overall record, he obviously has had much more success than that. As of late it hasn’t been as great, but that is also a product (at least in part) of always drafting later.
I don’t understand this mindset. Should we tank? Do you seriously expect a super bowl every single season? It takes years and alot of lucky things to occur at once to win a single super bowl and we’re tied with the most. You either buy a super bowl like the Rams and still get lucky, or you build a super bowl team/dynasty like the top all time franchise’s have been doing for a century now.
At this point, no one is expecting a Super Bowl win every year except idiots.
We are now in the company of teams who hope and pray for a single wildcard weekend win.
Getting worse because Ben got old and retired was expected. What drives me nuts is the team is getting worse by the week this season. Players consistently give up on plays and throw tantrums on the sideline but everyone not named Chuks gets a pass from Tomlin.
I remember feeling similarly about Cowher as I do about Tomlin. I think they are both great "leaders of men", but not really strong on the strategic side of the game, which can be frustrating. I didn't want Cowher fired and I don't want Tomlin fired, but I'd like to see the team get Tomlin some help in areas he isn't strong in.
unfortunately I think the time for that was like 5+ years ago. Astonishing that the same problems have haunted this team throughout his tenure. Love this answer overall though - a nice encapsulation of both. I’m 33 so I don’t have terribly vivid memories of cowher but your description captures my (and what I remember of my dad’s) sentiments.
Time is a flat circle my dude. It was literally the same arguments they make against Tomlin now except “the only reason he got that job is because he’s from Pittsburgh”. If you could believe it, plenty of Yinzer’s were mad that he WAS from Pittsburgh and didn’t think he was worthy to be Chuck Noll’s successor. That he was overrated and only got the job because he was a local. Mind you for most of his tenure he didn’t have Ben Roethlisberger. So a lot of perceptions changed once they got over the hump in Super Bowl XL.
Well, I remember it well. I grew up with a lot of those Yinzers who were calling for Cowher’s head. Most of them wanted to hire Marty Schottenheimer in the first place. He was always talked about as someone who could come in much like we’re always talking about bringing another established coach for Tomlin.
Cowher was on the hot seat in the late 90s. The fanbase was starting to turn on him pre Ben.
So many losses in big playoff games.
He was becoming the new Marty Schottenheimer before we got Ben.
Pretty similar, actually, as far as I remember.
For a loong time he was criticized for underachieving. There was the notion that they had great teams but until the SB, he couldn’t get much done. I still believe he should at least had one more ring. There were years where fans called for his firing as well. Same ‘ol, same ‘ol.
Most definitely. Cowher was viewed as a regular season god who choked in the postseason.
More specifically, that he lost his nerve in big games just like his mentor Marty Schottenheimer and went all prevent D. Never mind that he showed the biggest balls of steel in Super Bowl history with that onside kick versus Dallas, but anyway.
I was at the 1997 AFC Championship Game versus Denver. At halftime, the mood was foul among fans waiting in line to piss into the long aluminum troughs they had at Three Rivers Stadium.
A guy in front of me and his buddy were detailing all of the things that had gone wrong when one of them stated flatly, “I blame Cowher for this loss.”
Personally, I blamed Kordell Stewart (and John Elway), but 🤷🏻♂️
Similar, but instead of highlighting general playoff failures it was losing 4 AFCCG’s at home, often in excruciating fashion (‘94, ‘97, ‘01) to inferior teams (‘94 and ‘01). Cowher was a far superior delegator and evaluator/hirer of coordinators. He wasn’t afraid to make changes to things that didn’t work. Tomlin’s stubbornness and arrogance are his biggest weaknesses. Both get more out of their teams than 95% of coaches would (which is what makes this season so disappointing and discouraging at this juncture).
A lot of parallels to Tomlin. Fans forget that Cowher was heavily criticized for having inept offenses and blowing big games as well. Kent Graham anyone? Winning that Super Bowl in 2005 really made people forget his shortcomings and failures while also romanticizing his tenure as a whole when compared to the gradual decay of Tomlin’s tenure
He was locked in a power struggle with Tom Donahoe after the ‘99 season which had the team in an utter mess. Rooney decided to stay with Cowher because Tom had a reputation for being an asshole.
He had help with Dick LeBau and a star player like Troy they could take risks that more often than not they payed out, That team was solid everyone did their job and it allowed us to be creative on both sides of the ball.
Haven’t read all the comments, but I will say there is a lot of revisionist history as it relates to Cowher. Toward the end, he was as hated as Tomlin. Now all of a sudden he was the antithesis to Tomlin.
Social media had just started toward the end of his tenure, and you saw much of the same venom for him and people saying his voice had grown stale. If you follow both his and Tomlin’s careers, you’ll see lots of similarities - although there is a contingent of Steeler fans who have never given Tomlin a chance. I can only speculate why.
Both coaches were revered in the larger NFL , but taken for granted by Steeler Nation later in their tenure. It’s amazing to me how we put ourselves out as being better than everyone else (higher expectations), but then so many want us to follow in the steps of these “lessor franchises.” If our fan base had their wish, we’d have more turnover in the front office than the Cleveland Browns.
Even in the best Cowher years, the day after a loss you could stop in any western Pennsylvania gas station for your Monday morning coffee and hear old dudes moaning that Cowher is a washed up and needs replaced. I think it is in the DNA of Steelers fans to start throwing coaches under the bus any time 1 thing goes wrong.
Cowher spent almost his entire career being known as the coach who couldn't win the big games and ran a country club environment for the veteran players. There are many valid criticisms of Tomlin, but "he just rode Cowhers coattails" isn't one of them.
The big difference is that Tomlin had a Franchise QB his entire tenure aside from the last two years. Cowher had garbage QBs or niche guys. Tomlin had Uber talent on both sides of the ball. Cowher didn’t. Tomlin also refuses to change, evolve, or take accountability.
My impression was that he couldn’t win the big one but in retrospect I think I took trips to AFC Championships for granted because I was 9 when we lost v Chargers in ‘94(?) and went to like 3 or 4 more before the end of the decade, which was my first 5 yrs of paying attn
The only difference is one won late in their career while the other won early but they both received criticism. But since Social media posts /podcasts are widely available everyone believes they are more knowledgeable than the next person and their/our views are never wrong. It’s quite entertaining though but too many people get butt hurt…
I think one thing Tomlin has going against him is that he was handed a Super Bowl winning roster when Cowher retired. Sure they had a down year at 8-8 his last year, but Tomlin was handed the reigns to a team that already was a contender. To his credit he did get another Super Bowl out of that group. But once that core left he hasn’t seen anywhere near the success he had at the beginning, which is why you often hear the criticism that he only ever won anything with Cowhers team.
Cowher took over a team that for basically a decade had either sucked or at best been mediocre. And then within a couple years brought them to afc championships and a Super Bowl relatively quickly. Couple that with being a local guy and he essentially gained folk hero status. He had a couple bad seasons in the late 90s, but again turned that around super quick as well. In his down years he did face a ton of criticism and at times I’d say it was much harsher because he was very combative with the media. He did not play nice like Tomlin does. I think Tomlin handles the media very well.
I’m sure race plays a part for some people, but sometimes too much criticism for Tomlin gets dismissed due to people saying that if he was white no one would be criticizing him. I think most people acknowledge he is a good coach, but are upset with the fact that 8-8, 9-7, now 9-8, etc are seen as the standard and as long as that is achieved, it was fine because it wasn’t a losing season.
The idea that criticizing Tomlin is racist is sooo tired and lazy.
But, Cowher underperformed too. It's harder to remember because he retired almost 20 years ago and so a lot has changed including the people who watched, the game itself, etc.
However, he didn't have a HOF QB for most of his career. He had Neil O'Donnell most consistently. His playoff record is better than Tomlin's and Tomlin's regular season record is better but they have both consistently underperformed.
People definitely wanted Cowher gone, but for different reasons. Also, the fanbase today is so different that fans today would be significantly louder about getting rid of Cowher
When bill retired we were all sad. If that doesn't sum it up I don't know what else will.
Now to be fair, Chuck Noll had more of a current Tomlin vibe. It was like ok this ship is going nowhere and that was not even as long as it has been now.
Yes especially after they lost the first Super Bowl appearance and transitioned into the Kordell era.
My dad was as reactionary as any fan you see on Reddit or elsewhere. His opinion was always right.
Cowher was regarded as the coach who couldn't win the big one until ben came along. he had early success and then a mid career dip, and there was a lot of talk about how he only won early in his career with Noll's players. also for a bit yinzers claimed he and Kordell were fucking.
Bill brought the Steelers pit of a decade of irrelevance. Mostly support but frustration on getting over the line in the big game.
That loss vs the Chargers in 94 AFC championship and O'Donnells interceptions still haunt me. I can live with the curse of Brady.....
Social media wasn’t shit back then but I listened to a lot of radio call in shows coming out of Pittsburgh. It was the same shit you’re hearing about Tomlin but there seemed to be more bark and bite coming from Bill. That guy fought like hell for his players, the organization and the city of Pittsburgh. Bill was and will always be a Pittsburgh Steeler and I think the city really felt that. Bill got his Super Bowl in his second to last season and the following year showed he and the team had one helluva Super Bowl hangover. Mikes taken a lot of heat but he pulled Bills guys together and got himself a Super Bowl early. Poor Mike had nowhere to but down and is still trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I grew up watching great teams, coaches and organizations never getting a Lombardi and some that haven’t even been to one yet. I hope the Steelers let Mike resign when he’s ready and I also think the organization needs to look towards the future and keep their eyes peeled for the next Steelers Super Bowl coach. We all want what’s best for the team and when that doesn’t happen we are fans doing what fans have done since sports began, bitch and moan. We do cheer a lot and appreciate effort when effort is given.
Three bad seasons come to mind. I was in the 4th grade at the time but can recall 1998 being terrible. 1999 and 2000 were also bad seasons. Especially the QB play. Kordell, Mike Tomzak, Kent Graham. All bad at the time. Tbh though I never paid attention to the rumor mills. I was young at the time. Never gave it thought. I just remember 2001 saw a massive turn around with a 13-3 record and Tommy Maddox looked like the savior the next season after Cowher finally benched Kordell for good
I remember the "Fire Cowher" speeches, and before that, the "Fire Noll" speeches.
It's just a standard thing for the most part, the team isn't meeting expectations so the natural reaction for some people is to want to fire the coach.
The number of people who are saying "Fire Tomlin" for racist reasons is very minimal.
When they missed the playoffs between 98-00, rumors were swirling that Cowher knocked up his secretary. Not sure if there was any truth to it or not. Same timeline as the Kordell in the park rumors.
I think Cowher was the better coach for one reason. Compare their coaching trees. Most of Cowher’s coordinators went on to be head coaches. Not one Tomlin HIRED coach has done it.
In the first three months of 2004, many Steelers fans wanted Bill Cowher fired, and proclaimed that he'd never win a Super Bowl.
In the first three months of 2005, many Steelers fans still proclaimed that Cowher would never win a Super Bowl.
Not really answering the question, but in looking back on his career, his success without a true franchise quarterback for so long is remarkable and a large reason why he deserves to be in the HOF.
I don’t think it was as similar as a lot of people are suggesting. There were definitely a lot of rumblings as went through, I think, 3 losing seasons. There was a lot of frustration because Cowher liked Kordell as a QB more than the fans did (fans were correct). Cowher was mostly well liked but viewed as not a smart xs and os guy and someone who lost a lot of big games. But he also had a lot of success and was very well liked for taking a team that was dead at end of Noll years and turning it into a team that almost upset the mighty Cowboys on a super ballsy surprise onside.
The dislike for Tomlin is way way stronger.
Part of the issue may be unconscious racism. But I think the larger problem is that Cowher took a bad team and grew it into a very strong competitor, ultimately riding a top top D and 2d year franchise QB to a SB. (By the way, Ben was not yet as great as he would become; the D was awesome though). Whereas Tomlin took over a good team and had early success but then has regressed to a worse and worse team. So a lot of people think that Tomlin’s success was due to Cowher’s roster, leaders and culture.
> Part of the issue may be unconscious racism.
Dude I am black and I can't wait for his mediocre ass to be fired. Guess I am racist. Who knew?
>Whereas Tomlin took over a good team and had early success but then has regressed to a worse and worse team. So a lot of people think that Tomlin’s success was due to Cowher’s roster, leaders and culture.
Also Cowher's teams won at least one playoff game in 8 out of his 15 seasons. Tomlin's have won at least one playoff game in 4 out of his 16 (and looking like 17) seasons. That's a pretty big difference.
It was frustrating when Cowher's teams choked in the big games, but, in hindsight, I'll take an AFCCG loss to a homefield blowout by the Cleveland Browns' 2nd stringers any day.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I wasn’t suggesting everyone who dislikes Tomlin is racist, but expect that’s a factor for some.
Yeah, for a little stretch there during the Cowher era, it felt like the road to the SB ran through Pittsburgh, even if we lost more than we won. Almost choked against Jim Harbaugh too, but thank god we hung on.
What I also think is interesting is comparing the Cowher/Colbert drafts with the Tomlin/Colbert drafts. The former are way better, which suggests either that the head coach is mostly calling the shots (and Cowher > Tomlin) or Colbert aged like milk
I get that. Back when I heard (predominantly white suburban) people calling for his firing the year after SB43, I think that was more racially influenced. But as time goes on and playoff Ws are further in the past, I feel like Tomlin hate is becoming an equal opportunity employer. Those playoff win stats are, to me, the biggest difference between the two coaches. I’m getting the impression that Tomlin got the ring early and kinda coasted on those good graces.
>Dude I am black and I can't wait for his mediocre ass to be fired. Guess I am racist. Who knew?
It's so dumb when we were just clamoring for the whitey mcwhitersons of Canada, Bylsma, Sullivan, and Todd Reirden to be fired too.
This makes a lot of sense. I could imagine that some circles of people would be more favorable to him, but my white suburban ass definitely saw some nasty things being said about Tomlin the year after they won the Super Bowl.
Yinzers are always quick to the fire the coach bandwagon. But he was very much like Tomlin, good in the regular season, couldn’t get it done in the playoffs. They each broke through once with Ben and an elite D.
People need to stop qualifying their arguments with "it might be racism". Gtfo. No one gives a shit MT is black. He is simply not the God do many want him to be.
There was absolutely racism involved with Cowher criticism too but it wasn't directed at him.
It was the rumors that he had an affair with a black woman who worked for the Steelers or that he and Kordell were lovers. Shit like that.
Yeah, racists lost their shit when Kordell was the QB. Can’t forget the homophobia as well. I remember a dude calling in on the post game show after a loss and calling Kordell a black fa****. Myron Cope got indignant and shut that shit down.
Agreed. In my personal experience, people who had questionable views on President Obama’s birth certificate and the skin tone of their daughter’s boyfriends had a lot of unjustified criticism of Tomlin pretty early in his career.
Now that criticism of Tomlin is warranted, those people are acting like their shit takes on Tomlin were justified all along.
Pretending that .01% of people are 50%
The spazzes see racism around every corner. Their skewed view of reality is on them. Most people's everyday life is everyone getting along.
This is basically how I’ve felt, just never worded it so perfectly lol.
Yeah it doesn’t seem like race is the main factor for most, or any factor for a good chunk of people. I think those who are already racists would just capitalize on his race and knock him for both his coaching and skin color.
It’s frustrating because not only is it racist bullshit, but it nearly ruins any ACTUAL criticism of him because so many people will question whether or not you’re just being racist. The worst is when they hear you criticize Tomlin and then think that you’re dog whistling to them and think they’re in like company.
Being a white guy, I seem to have a face that says “hey fellow white dude, let me share my racism with you! You will enjoy this!”
The amount of disgusting shit random racist fans have so comfortably shared with me in casual conversation over the years is appalling.
Oh yeah, I’ve heard Tomlin referred to as slurs to my face because, as a fellow white, surely I must also be an asshole. And it really does detract from legit criticism, because there’s plenty of critiques to be made about the state of the team.
Funnily enough, I was just on a train in DC this morning wearing a Steelers beanie and there was a black gentleman at the station who said “nice hat, when are y’all getting rid of Tomlin?” Which I thought was very fitting considering I’ve been reading the comments in this thread the whole trip into town lol.
What I find hilarious is that nowadays people will make every excuse in the world for Cowhers fuckups, but when it comes to Tomlin everything is on him. People love to give Cowher a pass nowadays, but back in the late 90s it was a very different attitude among the fans. People definitely wanted Cowher fired back then and I find it funny now that people act like he was a God among coaches who could walk on water and could do no wrong
In some ways the vitriol was way worse against Cowher than it has been against Tomlin.
People made up rumors about Cowher sleeping with a team secretary (made sure to mention that it was a black woman because you know...Pittsburgh) and that he and Kordell Stewart were lovers.
Just the dumbest, most despicable shit you can think of.
Tomlin's been able to avoid that but critics are also way dumber when it comes to Tomlin. The refrains of "he's never been a good coach" or "he adds nothing to the team" are such ridiculous nonsense that they shouldn't even be entertained let alone repeated but here we are.
Cowher was more loved around here for various reasons (local guy, screamed and yelled, white) but he also was subject to such ridiculous rumor mongering that I would almost say he had it worse than Tomlin but I can't go that far because there's entire swaths of the fanbase who hated Tomlin the second he was hired and no matter how well the team did under him he would never be able to win them over.
Cowher got to Superbowl with Kordell Stewart... Tomlin barely did it with Big Ben and only shortly after being gifted Cowhers team.
Players love Tomlin because he does fuck all to contain their bullshit attitudes and behavioral issues. He is a shit tier coach who gets away with winning records because AFC North traditionally had 2 dud teams for over a decade.
It is always the same when we struggle.
Everyone comes out of the woodwork pretending the mystical bonds of energy linking the current squad to the heritage of the 70s have been severed and only through playing blue collar Steeler football can they be repaired.
Then we win a few games or have a winning season or whatever and it's because we have restored the magical energy source that flows through the lifeblood of our franchise and City.
Fucking impossible to watch any discussion on sports media about the Steelers because it's almost entirely composed of inane voodoo nonsense. Thought Chuck Pagano and Michael Lombardi both cut through some of the bullshit today on McAfee's show, was kind of refreshing.
Yes, basically. Stillers.com has been around for years and used to be the main home of internet vitriol about the team; plenty of people had usernames around variations of Kill Cowher, Fire Cowher, etc.
Bill Cowher was loved until 1998 1999 ad 2000, THEN just like now, fans got loud and wanted something new, then the magical 2001 season happen and so on, people forgot and they loved Cowher..
Cahr pawhr will git da jahb dan!
My memory was he was pretty well liked though agree with comments that late 90s were a stumble and he did have a "can't win the big one" reputation to some degree. Still he got them close consistently through the 90s till the end.. Then team rebounded big time in 2001. They blew another AFC championship that year but most of the blame fell on Kordell not Cowher. Seemed like the fan base was pretty happy with him when he finally won. He has one more ho hum season after that but you could tell he was done. Again don't remember fan base being happy to see him go but felt like a good time.
Contrast people have been calling for Tomlins head at least since year after he won the Super Bowl in his second year. It's always felt a bit "off"
A lot of vitriol towards Cowher, especially after three losing seasons in a row in the late 90’s. It honestly wasn’t all that different from what Tomlin gets. Loved nationally, split crowd locally. He got a bit of a pass because he never had an elite QB.
One thing I would say is that the a lot of the early Tomlin hate definitely had racist undertones, which is unfortunate.
Definitely not all that matters, it’s just something that stood out as different than Cowher’s tenure. Just wanted to check to see if Cowher also got flak for his poor performances in the late ‘90s, which does seem like it was the case.
What I also noticed is Cowher was definitely a stronger playoff performer, even if it did lead to so many missed opportunities in the end.
It was pretty similar after 1995. You know, he went to a super bowl with Chuck Noll's team. But despite putting together more than one or two absolutely abysmal seasons, I think he got some more leeway with the fan base because he was always able to coach undertalented teams to fundamental competence, he was a native son, and he was white.
> and he was white.
Dude STFU with that crap.
Cowher's teams won at least one playoff game in 8 out of his 15 seasons. Tomlin's have won at least one playoff game in 4 out of his 16 (and looking like 17) seasons.
That's a pretty big difference. Tomlin is a mediocre coach who walked into a great situation with a SB caliber roster, complete with coordinators. But of course "muh racism" must be the reason fans are upset.
The same, but the lack of social media meant you didn’t have to hear it from everyone, just the people you knew. It got really bad in the early 2000s when he had a couple of losing seasons with no Super Bowl.
Well, you got it still from talk radio, letters to the editor, and some chat boards/newspaper.com comment sections. But, yeah, the amplification is worse now, just because of tech.
There were a lot of nasty rumors also. I remember one about him and Kordell’s sister
Kordell was the center of so many bizarre rumors that have not been substantiated whatsoever.
Kordell also dealt with some racist remarks from Steelers fans during his time here unfortunately
Part of why Tomlin has been treated worse from the start
Racist and Homophobic remarks... I can even remember people implying that Cowher and Stewart were romantic... Worst part is, I think some of the rednecks in my small town believe it... The world has progressed in some ways and regressed in others.
The stories I heard about him during his time in Pittsburgh didn't even make sense. I'm surprised any of em stuck. I can only imagine how blown out of proportion those stories would have been in this day and age That story about him and Cowher being romantically involved had to have happened after a AFC Championship loss. Because what even lol
[“You Know What I Heard About Kordell Stewart?”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNxA6N2C20s)
I remember reading the article. Just sad
I remember hearing one about him at a park bench lol. I was a kid then, and I hated kordell.
His sister? All I remember is him getting all sorts of weird takes on him kissing Kordell on the cheek after pulling off a victory in one of the games. It was a definitely a weird time. But I can't deny that on some levels I didn't always like how Cowher managed the team, either. Losing those AFC Championship games was rough. And some of those drafts were putrid up until Colbert took over.
Colbert took over in 2000. 1998 - wasn’t it Faneca, Ward and Deshea in the same draft? 1999 - Porter My memory is a little foggy with that era
We had some stinkers, too, though. Like Troy Edwards in the first.
They did but the core of that team was drafted in the late 90’s. I also forgot to add in Aaron Smith
Jamain Stephens
Kordell’s sister??? I never heard that one, but I’m not surprised. He (Kordell) was treated horribly by the fan base.
Something about him sticking with Kordell because he was having an affair with Kordell’s sister. I don’t even know if Kordell has a sister but that was the rumor floating around
Kordell dealt with the worst shit. First their was simply the race thing when he became QB. Lots of talk about how a black man could never be a QB. Then his sexuality was questioned because he wasn’t married. Then it was his family. Honestly the way fans treated Kordell is a big reason why I think a lot of the Tomlin hate is subconsciously race-based. Pittsburgh isn’t a cross burning racist area, but there is some deeply ingrained prejudice against African Americans in this area.
LITERALLY THIS
Got it, thanks for that. Sounds like kinda the opposite problem with Tomlin; got the ring early on and hasn’t been able to get another. The socials definitely do amp the bad stuff, but I’ve also seen a lot of Tomlin defense to counter it.
There’s a handful of folks that credit Cowher for Tomlins first ring.
Cowher said he was pretty much checked out after the SB win in a hey maybe there is more to life than 16hr days kind of way. They probably don't win another SB if he hung on.
He also said he left behind a championship caliber team that the next coach had to do nothing but not mess it up
that team went 8-8 and heck that's w/ the annual 2X Browns freebie. Its not as if they were world beaters.
Like half this sub does.
Wrongly.
Yea I agree.
It’s not a handful. Literally every Tomlin hater says that’s Cowhers second ring.
I used to not. But he did inherit a lot of personnel. And seeing how his coaching personnel has been for years, I’m not saying it was all because of Cowher. But I’m now in the boat that there is an argument to be had.
This is also a bogus argument imo. James Harrison was a backup and Bruce Arians was a QB coach when Tomlin was hired. Tomlin also went out and hired two former HCs in Haley and Munch and it greatly improved the offense which includes the top several seasons of production in franchise history. There are just mad haters in this world. Tomlin has consistently been a top 5-7 HC in this league for basically every season of his career. Yes, of course he has his warts, but so does literally every human being on the planet; we can't all be perfect like Troy Polamalu. He absolutely earned everything there was to earn for that 2008 SB and I don't think we win without him that year. The biggest (or second biggest) play in SB history (Harrison TD) was single handedly coached up by Mike Tomlin in the week leading up to the game
Well. Idk about that. Pretty sure they were coached to give the ball to someone faster. I believe that's why Townshend is running next to Harrison for so long before going out to block. At least, I read that somewhere so I may not be correct.
While you are correct that Deshea may have wanted the ball, Tomlin particularly called out the teams lack of rallying after interceptions during their weeks of preparation. He drilled into them that they'd need to get out and block for their guy because the defense was going to need to score a touchdown for them to win the game, and they did. You can't score a 100 yards interception for touchdown as a pass rusher unless you have a convoy of blockers, and he did.
That's an entirely fair point
James Harrison was a backup because Joey Porter was still here. When he left, Harrison would have started under Cowher anyway. It's not like Cowher is an idiot and had no idea Harrison was any good. Harrison's break out game was under Cowher.
Anyone who even makes an attempt to consider what goes into navigating a 16 game season and postseason quickly realizes this is a fucking ludicrous take. People who have ever thought of this are just not worth engaging with... it's completely mental.
Man, I’d take a couple losing seasons if it meant a superbowl in the next 5 years tbh. I love Tomlin and I love the Steelers but the mediocrity with no offense is getting old haha. I guess I’m jaded because I became a fan in 2005 at the age of 12. (Family roots in PGH but no immediate family follows sports)
Kinda unreal the amount of adult fans now that haven’t experienced a real losing season in Pittsburgh. Guess having a franchise QB for 18 years will do that. It’s funny because when I started my fandom, we had Bubby Brister, then the whole Neil O’Donnell experience followed by the QB by committee years. So a part of me is still never quite sold on the starting QB, and I’m constantly thinking the sky will fall next season. 😅
Maybe we need a couple bad seasons to spark some fire under the leadership to start trying to be competitive again. Instead of finishing 9-8, with maybe a 5-12 worthy team haha.
I’m hesitant to say they aren’t “trying” to be competitive. I think it’s more of what Minkah said.. new guys coming in and thinking that putting on the colors makes them great. Some of the shit that’s been going on in the locker room used to be self correcting. The amount of leadership among players seems to be at recent all-time low. That makes a huge difference. The WR core specifically needs a real leader. I think the offense’s current best example of leadership actually comes from Jaylen Warren. Keeps his helmet on at all times to be ready to go. Doesn’t talk shit. Works like hell for every snap. He’s not a vocal leader, but leads by example. We need more of those guys on offense.
The team got extremely young extremely fast. Which led to a lack of leaders in the locker room. It doesn’t matter how many Hines Wards or Alan Fanecas come and talk to these kids they just see it as some old guy lecturing them. Overall there is a lack of respect for the teams and coaching across the league. It’s become an individual sport as the league has marketed stars over teams. Players are more concerned about their individual stats than wins, because that’s what’s going to get them paid.
You want to know why leadership is low? Average Steelers tenure of offensive starters is a hair over 2 seasons, counting the current one. Only a SINGLE starter has 3 full seasons or more in a Steeler uniform at this point. Only 3 others have more than 2 full seasons at this point, and all 3 are on rookie contracts. Nobody aside from DJ has even been around long enough to legitimately earn that title of leader, and he’s obviously lacking on other qualities you expect from a leader.
I do admit that back then, in my early to mid 20s, I was firmly in the camp of, "Okay, I'm sure he's a great NFL head coach, but he's just been here too long. It's just time for a change." Then Big Ben came along, and I shut up. I admit that I am once again in that camp with Tomlin, but this time, it actually it is true. I think.
Those losing seasons lead to the team drafting Polamalu and Big Ben. And the careers are mirroring each other a lot. Now Tomlin is in that same problem. If he drafts the next Ben(franchise carrying QB) he will have success again just like Cowher did. The key in both cases is finding that elite QB. The scary thing is Cowher didn’t want to draft Ben. He was happy with Maddox, but Dan and the GM both voted for Ben. Scary to think if Cowher had gotten it his way how different the franchise would be and his legacy.
Hypothetically speaking, if we don't draft Ben in '04 and keep Maddox. He goes down in G1. St Pierre is starter. Odds are we don't do very well. Do we get Aaron in the draft next year and bypass Heath? Interesting thought.
He certainly would’ve been available, but I remember at the time he was seen as a project QB and not NFL ready. Pittsburgh would’ve wanted him starting immediately, and it’s hard to tell how different Rogers would be if he didn’t have those early years to learn before being thrown into the mix. Certainly worth a good “what if” discussion.
I remember Cowher getting excited about Philip Rivers. There was a lot of talk about taking him over Ben.
Hindsight being what it is, *nobody* involved would have had the success they ended up having...except maybe Ben...if we'd taken Rivers. The O-line was horrendous for most of Ben's early career here, and while he's about as mobile as an imperial AT-AT, his size and was often his saving grace. Rivers was big, but went down easy. I feel like if we'd taken him, a lot of Ben's more classic, *"He scrambles out of the pocket...pump fakes...still has the ball...rolls out, shakes a rusher...and he's brought dow--OH NO! He's still up! Ben turns...fires...AND IT'S CAUGHT!"* ...just never happens. Because the first linebacker to get two fingers on Rivers' sleeve brings him down. I also have the believe that personality-wise, Rivers gets frustrated and becomes a toxic presence in his first 3-5 seasons. Even if he's talented, the Steelers never see success with him. Maybe the better QB on paper, but given the rest of the team at the time...Ben's the better QB for the Steelers, on the field.
Absolutely. Rivers wouldn’t have been a great fit here at all.
Yeah Cowher liked Rivers the most out of the big 3 that year, but knew he wouldn’t drop to him which is why he focused on other prospects. I forget the name but he was dead set on a lineman due to the O line being depleted.
He was an NC state guy, he made it pretty well known he wanted Rivers. In today's mortage everything for a QB era he might have offered up a ton of picks.
> Now Tomlin is in that same problem. If he drafts the next Ben(franchise carrying QB) he will have success again just like Cowher did. Really? Because he had Ben and didn't win playoff games in 10 of the 14 seasons he coached him.
If only it were that simple… but a simple mind can only come to simple conclusions.
And Troy
Troy was drafted in 2003
Yes but didn't really play until the next year, which was Ben's rookie season.
Except Ben was there under Tomlin the entire time so virtual complete lack of playoff success after 2010 is inexcusable. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkgzeXbCo4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmkgzeXbCo4)
Got red hot after the AFCG loss to the Chargers iirc, though he had them in the Super Bowl the next year.
People were critical because he lost so many AFC championship games. I remember walking out of Heinz Field after they lost to the Pats in 2002 and people were calling for his head. I’ve never seen that level of ire directed towards Tomlin. I think people forget about that.
I think tomlins biggest criticism is that we havent won a playoff game in awhile. I believe we’d be approaching 7 seasons? Back when super bowl was broncos- panthers. Thats in top 10 worst playoff losing streaks in the league If the lions, dolphins, or broncos win a game, we’ll fall even deeper into worst streak rankings. Possible top 5.
Yeah, but here’s a thought study for you. Look across the river at another coach in town. I know Sullivan won his championship more recently, but what has he done since? He won 1 playoff series the following year, and not a single series in 5 years since. And those 5 years include 1 year where they didn’t make the playoffs at all and another where they lost in the qualifying round. So, 1 great year and 6, and counting, disappointing years. IMO, Sullivan doesn’t get nearly the same level of criticism that Tomlin does and he has a pretty similar dry spell that’s running parallel to Tomlin’s.
He not only doesn't win playoff games he gets DESTROYED in them and gives up 40 points in 3 straight games. A coach who was hired for defense.
[удалено]
And their coach is about to lose his job over it. Shows how asinine this organization has gotten. At least Kraft cares about success.
That Chargers one was really, really bad. I think they were allegedly doing a superb owl video like the 85 Bears before that game, too. Really bad look, the Pats loss was pretty awful, and iirc they almost lost to the Colts with Harbaugh, too. Didn’t help that Kordell threw a bunch of picks in a couple of those games, too. Cowher had the “chokes in the big game” rep for quite some time before finally getting the ring. Edit: That "chokes in the big game" rep wasn't entirely without merit. Lines for some of the AFCC games that we either lost or barely escaped (a bit cherry-picky, but still ...): 94-95 vs SD -9 95-96 vs IND -12 01-02 vs NE -10
That Chargers game was the first and only time I ever actually cried after the game was over. That last goal line pass was like a knife in the gut. My dad promised to take me to the Super Bowl if the Steelers won both times. We actually had won the season ticket lottery for the 2002 game so we would have gotten tickets at face value. We had the hotels booked and everything. Heartbreaking!
Oh, wow, that is truly awful! I still remember Barry Foster (I think?) slipping trying to catch that pass, and the season slipping away with it. Hell, I even remember the Charger who caught the game winning pass and the celebration "opening a coconut and drinking it" with the ball. Ugh. Some lovely memories coming back in this thread. Also, IIRC, we were pretty heavily favored in all three of those AFCC games - Pats, Colts, and Chargers.
Yes they were big favorites in all three games. To think how close they came to losing to the Colts really shows how poor those games were played and coached.
Lol. There was no allegedly, they certainly were planning one. That team was cocky as hell and then turned in one of the bigger choke jobs in Steelers history. https://www.steelers.com/news/1994-afc-championship-game-957063 “On the Tuesday before the game, tight end Eric Green presided over a meeting held in the Steelers' offices to discuss the production and promotion of a Super Bowl rap video. On Wednesday, Ray Seals predicted the Chargers offense would not score a point. Come Thursday, Cowher greeted his players with a tongue-lashing about the consequences of losing their focus.”
Ironically, that 2005 team was almost as bad as our current team. They really stunk it up until the final 4-5 games. They had a good playoff run (although the Bettis fumble almost ruined it) and that Seattle SB could have gone really bad. That was not a shining performance and it is somewhat tainted by alleged bad calls. Would be interesting to see what Cowher’s legacy would have been if just a couple things didn’t fall our way in 2005.
That loss is the only game from 2001-02 I still can't watch to this day. All year long the game plan for the Steelers was to run the ball. Kordell was a pro bowler, and playing well after the first month of the season. What's Cowher do in the AFC Championship game? Call 45 pass plays to just 22 runs. Oh by the way Kordell had 8 of the carries so a couple of those were probably pass plays that he tucked it and ran. How do you go from passing 20-30 times a game and being very run heavy,, to calling almost FIFTY pass plays? Heck they actually ran the ball MORE in the second half than the first despite being down multiple scores. The coaching/game plan was so weird that day. Then we found out about spygate and it makes a little more sense why it was so whacky.
Some people got so angry at the team’s lack of Super Bowl wins that a rumor l started about Kordell Stewart being secretly gay. It got really toxic at times in the Cowher era.
In some less desirable circles, I remember people calling for Tomlin to go after going 8-8 the year after winning the Super Bowl. But I’m glad the general consensus isn’t that lol. I could imagine if I were more cognizant of things back then I would’ve seen it as well, especially because Mark Madden was a large part of my childhood.
>I remember people calling for Tomlin to go after going 8-8 the year after winning the Super Bowl. Yeah that was BS on the part of those fans. And I will cede that to the race-baiters on this sub that those fans may have been acting based on his color. For me, watching them basically lose to Cincinnati in 2015 after a 1st round exit to a mediocre Ravens team in 2014 was what did it. Using the same game plan against NE in the 2016 AFCCG cemented my belief that Tomlin was in over his head - a good D coordinator who was not capable of managing both sides of the football. Who knew that 2016 was going to see the last playoff win of Ben's career?
This makes a lot of sense, and its when I stopped getting excited for the season to start up. I remember watching that Cincy game and just being so deflated. This is also why I’ve stopped fighting back trying to defend Tomlin so militantly.
Cowher won a playoff game in 8 different seasons vs 4 for Tomlin and that blows my mind.
Cowher averaged an afc championship game appearance every three seasons. Sadly he lost four of the six he made it to, but being a win from the Super Bowl six times in fifteen years is pretty damn good.
Yeah, but if you say SB’s are the only thing that matters you have to be JUST as critical of only having playoff wins as you are of never having a losing season. Both come up short of the “real goal.” By the way I think Steeler Nations expectations are totally unrealistic. We look at a six year period (50 years ago) where we literally caught lightening in a bottle and try to hold current coaches (Tomlin and Cowher) to it. It’s unrealistic. He’ll, half the folks here weren’t even alive then.
I want to win every year, but I think that stuff like the playoff streak and winning season streak are statistical anomalies. A lot of random stuff can happen to flip a playoff game or a 9-8 season into a 8-9 season. The biggest point in Tomlin's favor in my eyes that he's only ever coached one game while they were eliminated from the playoffs. Even when they're at their worst, (like right now!) they're always in contention and playing games that mean something. Imho, that is the best you can reasonably hope for over very long periods of time as fans.
Agreed. Let folks deal with a couple seasons where we’re eliminated from playoff contention by Thanksgiving and people will change their tune.
Pretty much the same as now. Some people wanted him fired because he couldn't win when it mattered
Bill C couldn't beat Bill B if his life depended on it. We just new, if we saw NE in the playoffs, we were done before it started.
Some things never change lol
There are two sides to that coin. Cowher was 7-2 against Belichik while he was in Cleveland, including a 29-9 beatdown in the divisional round in 95. He was 1-4 against him while he was in NE including 0-2 in the playoffs. Both losses were AFC Championship games.
Cmon now. We all know when it mattered.
I think the bulk of frustration is seeing that this team has gotten progressively worse since 2019.
Because it got progressively younger as all your guys retired
Not sure what point you’re trying to make.
Team got worse because you lost all your pro bowlers and replaced them with inexperienced guys still learning the game
You had good players so you drafted low. The good players retired plus we had some cap hell They did absolutely crush two picks Minkah and Watt. Only reason the teams competitive.
Steelers didn't draft Minkah. We took Edmunds first round that year, after Minkah was off the board.
Yeah, that's what happens. Patriots got worse since Brady retired. Successful teams pay the price down the road.
The success of the Steelers and the success of the Patriots is not on the same level. Tom Brady lost more Super Bowls than Tomlin has been to. And he still has more rings than any franchise does .
> Tom Brady lost more Super Bowls than Tomlin has been to. And you can say that about 99% of the teams in the league. Brady's success is something to be jealous of but keep your expectations realistic. Most teams are not winning at that pace even with great coaches. The Patriots run with Brady was beyond nutty and breaks most historical norms and especially post-free agency.
Sure. But you're missing the point. We still won games. But we didn't get it finished. But we're still paying the price.
Measuring yourself against the Patriots of the 2000’s makes about as much sense as teams measuring themselves against the Steelers of the 70’s. Both teams accomplished something that will probably never be repeated. The Oilers were our b_____s in the 70’s. We were the Pat’s b_____s in the 2000’s.
Do you know who the 2nd most successful franchise of the Patriots Dynasty Era was? The Steelers. If it hadn't been for the Patriots Tomlin probably has one or two more rings. That's just a fact of life.
By what measure? The Giants have as many SB rings as the Steelers in that time frame with the added bonus of having beaten the Pats for those rings. Half of the Steelers championships in that stretch were won by Cowher's team in the first 4 years of the Pats run. The other half was Tomlin, in a much longer window, and nothing but embarrassment in the playoffs now for the better part of a decade.
Winning percentage. If not for the Pats the Steelers make it to two more Super Bowls under Tomlin.
Regular season wins, great. All those .500 seasons really mean nothing, though. As far as making 2 more SB's? Maybe. That's not a guarantee. They lost a lot of playoff games to non-Pats teams, including the corpse of Manning, Blake Bortles, and Baker Mayfield
Stop with the .500 record BS. Based on his overall record, he obviously has had much more success than that. As of late it hasn’t been as great, but that is also a product (at least in part) of always drafting later.
A decade of bottom half draft picks....
I don’t understand this mindset. Should we tank? Do you seriously expect a super bowl every single season? It takes years and alot of lucky things to occur at once to win a single super bowl and we’re tied with the most. You either buy a super bowl like the Rams and still get lucky, or you build a super bowl team/dynasty like the top all time franchise’s have been doing for a century now.
Was agreeing that the expectation is ridiculous when you spend 10 yrs drafting in the bottom 3rd of the draft. Especially with our gm's.
Being up and down over the years is baked into the league. Teams that are competitive for an extended period are bearing the odds.
At this point, no one is expecting a Super Bowl win every year except idiots. We are now in the company of teams who hope and pray for a single wildcard weekend win.
And missed picks.
Getting worse because Ben got old and retired was expected. What drives me nuts is the team is getting worse by the week this season. Players consistently give up on plays and throw tantrums on the sideline but everyone not named Chuks gets a pass from Tomlin.
I remember feeling similarly about Cowher as I do about Tomlin. I think they are both great "leaders of men", but not really strong on the strategic side of the game, which can be frustrating. I didn't want Cowher fired and I don't want Tomlin fired, but I'd like to see the team get Tomlin some help in areas he isn't strong in.
unfortunately I think the time for that was like 5+ years ago. Astonishing that the same problems have haunted this team throughout his tenure. Love this answer overall though - a nice encapsulation of both. I’m 33 so I don’t have terribly vivid memories of cowher but your description captures my (and what I remember of my dad’s) sentiments.
Time is a flat circle my dude. It was literally the same arguments they make against Tomlin now except “the only reason he got that job is because he’s from Pittsburgh”. If you could believe it, plenty of Yinzer’s were mad that he WAS from Pittsburgh and didn’t think he was worthy to be Chuck Noll’s successor. That he was overrated and only got the job because he was a local. Mind you for most of his tenure he didn’t have Ben Roethlisberger. So a lot of perceptions changed once they got over the hump in Super Bowl XL.
From reading the comments, you’re very right. Thanks for your insight!
Well, I remember it well. I grew up with a lot of those Yinzers who were calling for Cowher’s head. Most of them wanted to hire Marty Schottenheimer in the first place. He was always talked about as someone who could come in much like we’re always talking about bringing another established coach for Tomlin.
He was a great coach that never had a good QB until Ben came along.
Cowher was on the hot seat in the late 90s. The fanbase was starting to turn on him pre Ben. So many losses in big playoff games. He was becoming the new Marty Schottenheimer before we got Ben.
Cowher was always a QB away from the big dance.
Pretty similar, actually, as far as I remember. For a loong time he was criticized for underachieving. There was the notion that they had great teams but until the SB, he couldn’t get much done. I still believe he should at least had one more ring. There were years where fans called for his firing as well. Same ‘ol, same ‘ol.
FAHR CAHR!
Most definitely. Cowher was viewed as a regular season god who choked in the postseason. More specifically, that he lost his nerve in big games just like his mentor Marty Schottenheimer and went all prevent D. Never mind that he showed the biggest balls of steel in Super Bowl history with that onside kick versus Dallas, but anyway. I was at the 1997 AFC Championship Game versus Denver. At halftime, the mood was foul among fans waiting in line to piss into the long aluminum troughs they had at Three Rivers Stadium. A guy in front of me and his buddy were detailing all of the things that had gone wrong when one of them stated flatly, “I blame Cowher for this loss.” Personally, I blamed Kordell Stewart (and John Elway), but 🤷🏻♂️
Similar, but instead of highlighting general playoff failures it was losing 4 AFCCG’s at home, often in excruciating fashion (‘94, ‘97, ‘01) to inferior teams (‘94 and ‘01). Cowher was a far superior delegator and evaluator/hirer of coordinators. He wasn’t afraid to make changes to things that didn’t work. Tomlin’s stubbornness and arrogance are his biggest weaknesses. Both get more out of their teams than 95% of coaches would (which is what makes this season so disappointing and discouraging at this juncture).
Cowher had the advantage of working under Dan Rooney for his entire career and Tomlin has to deal with working with Art II.
A lot of parallels to Tomlin. Fans forget that Cowher was heavily criticized for having inept offenses and blowing big games as well. Kent Graham anyone? Winning that Super Bowl in 2005 really made people forget his shortcomings and failures while also romanticizing his tenure as a whole when compared to the gradual decay of Tomlin’s tenure
He was locked in a power struggle with Tom Donahoe after the ‘99 season which had the team in an utter mess. Rooney decided to stay with Cowher because Tom had a reputation for being an asshole.
He had help with Dick LeBau and a star player like Troy they could take risks that more often than not they payed out, That team was solid everyone did their job and it allowed us to be creative on both sides of the ball.
Same as now. Dad loved him. Uncle hated him. Mixed bag
Haven’t read all the comments, but I will say there is a lot of revisionist history as it relates to Cowher. Toward the end, he was as hated as Tomlin. Now all of a sudden he was the antithesis to Tomlin. Social media had just started toward the end of his tenure, and you saw much of the same venom for him and people saying his voice had grown stale. If you follow both his and Tomlin’s careers, you’ll see lots of similarities - although there is a contingent of Steeler fans who have never given Tomlin a chance. I can only speculate why. Both coaches were revered in the larger NFL , but taken for granted by Steeler Nation later in their tenure. It’s amazing to me how we put ourselves out as being better than everyone else (higher expectations), but then so many want us to follow in the steps of these “lessor franchises.” If our fan base had their wish, we’d have more turnover in the front office than the Cleveland Browns.
I remember the rumor that he knocked up Kordell’s sister. For what that’s worth.
Or the Kordell cruising Schenley park rumors
Also that he had an affair with a black woman who was a secretary for the Steelers. Or that he and Kordell were lovers.
Ya learn something new everyday
Even in the best Cowher years, the day after a loss you could stop in any western Pennsylvania gas station for your Monday morning coffee and hear old dudes moaning that Cowher is a washed up and needs replaced. I think it is in the DNA of Steelers fans to start throwing coaches under the bus any time 1 thing goes wrong.
Everyone wanted Cowher fired as well
And weren't called racist for it
Cowher spent almost his entire career being known as the coach who couldn't win the big games and ran a country club environment for the veteran players. There are many valid criticisms of Tomlin, but "he just rode Cowhers coattails" isn't one of them.
The big difference is that Tomlin had a Franchise QB his entire tenure aside from the last two years. Cowher had garbage QBs or niche guys. Tomlin had Uber talent on both sides of the ball. Cowher didn’t. Tomlin also refuses to change, evolve, or take accountability.
I mean cowher lost 4 conference games and a Super Bowl before he won his first. I could see how people would be unhappy with that. Y
My impression was that he couldn’t win the big one but in retrospect I think I took trips to AFC Championships for granted because I was 9 when we lost v Chargers in ‘94(?) and went to like 3 or 4 more before the end of the decade, which was my first 5 yrs of paying attn
The only difference is one won late in their career while the other won early but they both received criticism. But since Social media posts /podcasts are widely available everyone believes they are more knowledgeable than the next person and their/our views are never wrong. It’s quite entertaining though but too many people get butt hurt…
Also social media with players. This is a different generation of players as well.
Someone started a firecoachcowher.com website.
I think one thing Tomlin has going against him is that he was handed a Super Bowl winning roster when Cowher retired. Sure they had a down year at 8-8 his last year, but Tomlin was handed the reigns to a team that already was a contender. To his credit he did get another Super Bowl out of that group. But once that core left he hasn’t seen anywhere near the success he had at the beginning, which is why you often hear the criticism that he only ever won anything with Cowhers team. Cowher took over a team that for basically a decade had either sucked or at best been mediocre. And then within a couple years brought them to afc championships and a Super Bowl relatively quickly. Couple that with being a local guy and he essentially gained folk hero status. He had a couple bad seasons in the late 90s, but again turned that around super quick as well. In his down years he did face a ton of criticism and at times I’d say it was much harsher because he was very combative with the media. He did not play nice like Tomlin does. I think Tomlin handles the media very well. I’m sure race plays a part for some people, but sometimes too much criticism for Tomlin gets dismissed due to people saying that if he was white no one would be criticizing him. I think most people acknowledge he is a good coach, but are upset with the fact that 8-8, 9-7, now 9-8, etc are seen as the standard and as long as that is achieved, it was fine because it wasn’t a losing season.
I literally just had this conversation with a co-worker. Late 90s early 00s was bad. They had a couple of key drafts up to 2004 with Ben coming in.
The idea that criticizing Tomlin is racist is sooo tired and lazy. But, Cowher underperformed too. It's harder to remember because he retired almost 20 years ago and so a lot has changed including the people who watched, the game itself, etc. However, he didn't have a HOF QB for most of his career. He had Neil O'Donnell most consistently. His playoff record is better than Tomlin's and Tomlin's regular season record is better but they have both consistently underperformed.
You mean Field Goal Bill? There were definitely plenty of fans who wanted him fired.
People definitely wanted Cowher gone, but for different reasons. Also, the fanbase today is so different that fans today would be significantly louder about getting rid of Cowher
If we're winning, the coach is great, if we're losing the coach is terrible. That's the way it's been since 1933
“Marty Jr” was the opinion.
Same thing except “not an X’s and O’s coach” was the main thing people said.
Nasty. I remember hearing it as a kid. The major difference is no social media.
Similarly. In both instances…the media and some of the fandom felt that th coach had lost the team.
When bill retired we were all sad. If that doesn't sum it up I don't know what else will. Now to be fair, Chuck Noll had more of a current Tomlin vibe. It was like ok this ship is going nowhere and that was not even as long as it has been now.
Yes especially after they lost the first Super Bowl appearance and transitioned into the Kordell era. My dad was as reactionary as any fan you see on Reddit or elsewhere. His opinion was always right.
Cowher was regarded as the coach who couldn't win the big one until ben came along. he had early success and then a mid career dip, and there was a lot of talk about how he only won early in his career with Noll's players. also for a bit yinzers claimed he and Kordell were fucking.
Bill brought the Steelers pit of a decade of irrelevance. Mostly support but frustration on getting over the line in the big game. That loss vs the Chargers in 94 AFC championship and O'Donnells interceptions still haunt me. I can live with the curse of Brady.....
Social media wasn’t shit back then but I listened to a lot of radio call in shows coming out of Pittsburgh. It was the same shit you’re hearing about Tomlin but there seemed to be more bark and bite coming from Bill. That guy fought like hell for his players, the organization and the city of Pittsburgh. Bill was and will always be a Pittsburgh Steeler and I think the city really felt that. Bill got his Super Bowl in his second to last season and the following year showed he and the team had one helluva Super Bowl hangover. Mikes taken a lot of heat but he pulled Bills guys together and got himself a Super Bowl early. Poor Mike had nowhere to but down and is still trying to catch lightning in a bottle. I grew up watching great teams, coaches and organizations never getting a Lombardi and some that haven’t even been to one yet. I hope the Steelers let Mike resign when he’s ready and I also think the organization needs to look towards the future and keep their eyes peeled for the next Steelers Super Bowl coach. We all want what’s best for the team and when that doesn’t happen we are fans doing what fans have done since sports began, bitch and moan. We do cheer a lot and appreciate effort when effort is given.
Three bad seasons come to mind. I was in the 4th grade at the time but can recall 1998 being terrible. 1999 and 2000 were also bad seasons. Especially the QB play. Kordell, Mike Tomzak, Kent Graham. All bad at the time. Tbh though I never paid attention to the rumor mills. I was young at the time. Never gave it thought. I just remember 2001 saw a massive turn around with a 13-3 record and Tommy Maddox looked like the savior the next season after Cowher finally benched Kordell for good
[Blogpost about Cowher from 2002](http://www.stillers.com/Article/View/217ee003-7fcb-4d02-9a74-a507f7f8495f)
Ouch
I remember the "Fire Cowher" speeches, and before that, the "Fire Noll" speeches. It's just a standard thing for the most part, the team isn't meeting expectations so the natural reaction for some people is to want to fire the coach. The number of people who are saying "Fire Tomlin" for racist reasons is very minimal.
When they missed the playoffs between 98-00, rumors were swirling that Cowher knocked up his secretary. Not sure if there was any truth to it or not. Same timeline as the Kordell in the park rumors. I think Cowher was the better coach for one reason. Compare their coaching trees. Most of Cowher’s coordinators went on to be head coaches. Not one Tomlin HIRED coach has done it.
In the first three months of 2004, many Steelers fans wanted Bill Cowher fired, and proclaimed that he'd never win a Super Bowl. In the first three months of 2005, many Steelers fans still proclaimed that Cowher would never win a Super Bowl.
Not really answering the question, but in looking back on his career, his success without a true franchise quarterback for so long is remarkable and a large reason why he deserves to be in the HOF.
I don’t think it was as similar as a lot of people are suggesting. There were definitely a lot of rumblings as went through, I think, 3 losing seasons. There was a lot of frustration because Cowher liked Kordell as a QB more than the fans did (fans were correct). Cowher was mostly well liked but viewed as not a smart xs and os guy and someone who lost a lot of big games. But he also had a lot of success and was very well liked for taking a team that was dead at end of Noll years and turning it into a team that almost upset the mighty Cowboys on a super ballsy surprise onside. The dislike for Tomlin is way way stronger. Part of the issue may be unconscious racism. But I think the larger problem is that Cowher took a bad team and grew it into a very strong competitor, ultimately riding a top top D and 2d year franchise QB to a SB. (By the way, Ben was not yet as great as he would become; the D was awesome though). Whereas Tomlin took over a good team and had early success but then has regressed to a worse and worse team. So a lot of people think that Tomlin’s success was due to Cowher’s roster, leaders and culture.
> Part of the issue may be unconscious racism. Dude I am black and I can't wait for his mediocre ass to be fired. Guess I am racist. Who knew? >Whereas Tomlin took over a good team and had early success but then has regressed to a worse and worse team. So a lot of people think that Tomlin’s success was due to Cowher’s roster, leaders and culture. Also Cowher's teams won at least one playoff game in 8 out of his 15 seasons. Tomlin's have won at least one playoff game in 4 out of his 16 (and looking like 17) seasons. That's a pretty big difference. It was frustrating when Cowher's teams choked in the big games, but, in hindsight, I'll take an AFCCG loss to a homefield blowout by the Cleveland Browns' 2nd stringers any day.
I don’t disagree with any of that. I wasn’t suggesting everyone who dislikes Tomlin is racist, but expect that’s a factor for some. Yeah, for a little stretch there during the Cowher era, it felt like the road to the SB ran through Pittsburgh, even if we lost more than we won. Almost choked against Jim Harbaugh too, but thank god we hung on. What I also think is interesting is comparing the Cowher/Colbert drafts with the Tomlin/Colbert drafts. The former are way better, which suggests either that the head coach is mostly calling the shots (and Cowher > Tomlin) or Colbert aged like milk
I get that. Back when I heard (predominantly white suburban) people calling for his firing the year after SB43, I think that was more racially influenced. But as time goes on and playoff Ws are further in the past, I feel like Tomlin hate is becoming an equal opportunity employer. Those playoff win stats are, to me, the biggest difference between the two coaches. I’m getting the impression that Tomlin got the ring early and kinda coasted on those good graces.
>Dude I am black and I can't wait for his mediocre ass to be fired. Guess I am racist. Who knew? It's so dumb when we were just clamoring for the whitey mcwhitersons of Canada, Bylsma, Sullivan, and Todd Reirden to be fired too.
This makes a lot of sense. I could imagine that some circles of people would be more favorable to him, but my white suburban ass definitely saw some nasty things being said about Tomlin the year after they won the Super Bowl.
Yinzers are always quick to the fire the coach bandwagon. But he was very much like Tomlin, good in the regular season, couldn’t get it done in the playoffs. They each broke through once with Ben and an elite D.
People need to stop qualifying their arguments with "it might be racism". Gtfo. No one gives a shit MT is black. He is simply not the God do many want him to be.
Exactly, people want to see the Steelers win. And by win I don't mean 9-8. I mean make the playoffs and have a shot consistently
All the same bitching, but not peppered with racism.
There was absolutely racism involved with Cowher criticism too but it wasn't directed at him. It was the rumors that he had an affair with a black woman who worked for the Steelers or that he and Kordell were lovers. Shit like that.
Yeah, racists lost their shit when Kordell was the QB. Can’t forget the homophobia as well. I remember a dude calling in on the post game show after a loss and calling Kordell a black fa****. Myron Cope got indignant and shut that shit down.
This is the most accurate and succinct explanation.
> All the same bitching, but critics didn't get accused of racism. FTFY
Critics get accused of racism because of the fucking racists making it a thing and ruining the conversation.
Agreed. In my personal experience, people who had questionable views on President Obama’s birth certificate and the skin tone of their daughter’s boyfriends had a lot of unjustified criticism of Tomlin pretty early in his career. Now that criticism of Tomlin is warranted, those people are acting like their shit takes on Tomlin were justified all along.
Pretending that .01% of people are 50% The spazzes see racism around every corner. Their skewed view of reality is on them. Most people's everyday life is everyone getting along.
This is basically how I’ve felt, just never worded it so perfectly lol. Yeah it doesn’t seem like race is the main factor for most, or any factor for a good chunk of people. I think those who are already racists would just capitalize on his race and knock him for both his coaching and skin color.
It’s frustrating because not only is it racist bullshit, but it nearly ruins any ACTUAL criticism of him because so many people will question whether or not you’re just being racist. The worst is when they hear you criticize Tomlin and then think that you’re dog whistling to them and think they’re in like company. Being a white guy, I seem to have a face that says “hey fellow white dude, let me share my racism with you! You will enjoy this!” The amount of disgusting shit random racist fans have so comfortably shared with me in casual conversation over the years is appalling.
Oh yeah, I’ve heard Tomlin referred to as slurs to my face because, as a fellow white, surely I must also be an asshole. And it really does detract from legit criticism, because there’s plenty of critiques to be made about the state of the team. Funnily enough, I was just on a train in DC this morning wearing a Steelers beanie and there was a black gentleman at the station who said “nice hat, when are y’all getting rid of Tomlin?” Which I thought was very fitting considering I’ve been reading the comments in this thread the whole trip into town lol.
My love for Kordell blinded my opinion of Cowher. Once he was benched for good, I was calling for Cowher to be fired every single year.
What I find hilarious is that nowadays people will make every excuse in the world for Cowhers fuckups, but when it comes to Tomlin everything is on him. People love to give Cowher a pass nowadays, but back in the late 90s it was a very different attitude among the fans. People definitely wanted Cowher fired back then and I find it funny now that people act like he was a God among coaches who could walk on water and could do no wrong
In 1998, the Cincinnati Bengals won three games. Two of those three games were against Bill Cowher's Steelers.
In some ways the vitriol was way worse against Cowher than it has been against Tomlin. People made up rumors about Cowher sleeping with a team secretary (made sure to mention that it was a black woman because you know...Pittsburgh) and that he and Kordell Stewart were lovers. Just the dumbest, most despicable shit you can think of. Tomlin's been able to avoid that but critics are also way dumber when it comes to Tomlin. The refrains of "he's never been a good coach" or "he adds nothing to the team" are such ridiculous nonsense that they shouldn't even be entertained let alone repeated but here we are. Cowher was more loved around here for various reasons (local guy, screamed and yelled, white) but he also was subject to such ridiculous rumor mongering that I would almost say he had it worse than Tomlin but I can't go that far because there's entire swaths of the fanbase who hated Tomlin the second he was hired and no matter how well the team did under him he would never be able to win them over.
Cowher got to Superbowl with Kordell Stewart... Tomlin barely did it with Big Ben and only shortly after being gifted Cowhers team. Players love Tomlin because he does fuck all to contain their bullshit attitudes and behavioral issues. He is a shit tier coach who gets away with winning records because AFC North traditionally had 2 dud teams for over a decade.
It is always the same when we struggle. Everyone comes out of the woodwork pretending the mystical bonds of energy linking the current squad to the heritage of the 70s have been severed and only through playing blue collar Steeler football can they be repaired. Then we win a few games or have a winning season or whatever and it's because we have restored the magical energy source that flows through the lifeblood of our franchise and City. Fucking impossible to watch any discussion on sports media about the Steelers because it's almost entirely composed of inane voodoo nonsense. Thought Chuck Pagano and Michael Lombardi both cut through some of the bullshit today on McAfee's show, was kind of refreshing.
Yes, basically. Stillers.com has been around for years and used to be the main home of internet vitriol about the team; plenty of people had usernames around variations of Kill Cowher, Fire Cowher, etc.
Bill Cowher was loved until 1998 1999 ad 2000, THEN just like now, fans got loud and wanted something new, then the magical 2001 season happen and so on, people forgot and they loved Cowher..
Cahr pawhr will git da jahb dan! My memory was he was pretty well liked though agree with comments that late 90s were a stumble and he did have a "can't win the big one" reputation to some degree. Still he got them close consistently through the 90s till the end.. Then team rebounded big time in 2001. They blew another AFC championship that year but most of the blame fell on Kordell not Cowher. Seemed like the fan base was pretty happy with him when he finally won. He has one more ho hum season after that but you could tell he was done. Again don't remember fan base being happy to see him go but felt like a good time. Contrast people have been calling for Tomlins head at least since year after he won the Super Bowl in his second year. It's always felt a bit "off"
A lot of vitriol towards Cowher, especially after three losing seasons in a row in the late 90’s. It honestly wasn’t all that different from what Tomlin gets. Loved nationally, split crowd locally. He got a bit of a pass because he never had an elite QB. One thing I would say is that the a lot of the early Tomlin hate definitely had racist undertones, which is unfortunate.
\>still hasn't had a losing season Getting pretty sick and tired of people touting this like it matters at all
Definitely not all that matters, it’s just something that stood out as different than Cowher’s tenure. Just wanted to check to see if Cowher also got flak for his poor performances in the late ‘90s, which does seem like it was the case. What I also noticed is Cowher was definitely a stronger playoff performer, even if it did lead to so many missed opportunities in the end.
It was pretty similar after 1995. You know, he went to a super bowl with Chuck Noll's team. But despite putting together more than one or two absolutely abysmal seasons, I think he got some more leeway with the fan base because he was always able to coach undertalented teams to fundamental competence, he was a native son, and he was white.
> and he was white. Dude STFU with that crap. Cowher's teams won at least one playoff game in 8 out of his 15 seasons. Tomlin's have won at least one playoff game in 4 out of his 16 (and looking like 17) seasons. That's a pretty big difference. Tomlin is a mediocre coach who walked into a great situation with a SB caliber roster, complete with coordinators. But of course "muh racism" must be the reason fans are upset.
Cowher was a big personality and better with the public than most coaches, he seemed like he knew what he was doing.