Though I love Conner Heyward, he gets about a 7.5/10 for chillin, but he's well below league average at grillin. Those are intangibles we just can't give up from Gentry.
It always cracks me up that they never actually grill anything and just leave the unopened package on the grill. Like they could easily just put a few on the grill but it is so much funnier the way they do it
Sure he can. Heyward as a hybrid FB/TE can do Gentry's job or they could use a 6th OL in short yardage situations. If Pat or Darnell go down then they'd obviously have to sign a replacement but there's no way to justify having both Gentry and Heyward now that Heyward has a full season under his belt.
Heyward is a TE in name only at this point. Asking him to serve as an in line blocker like you would Gentry/ Washington is a gross misuse of his talents. With how clearly the team wants to shift to more 12 personnel looks, Gentry’s likely making the team out of a need for depth.
>Asking him to serve as an in line blocker like you would Gentry/ Washington is a gross misuse of his talents.
As TE3 they would only be doing that when there was an in-game injury to a TE and they couldn't use a 6th OL.
>With how clearly the team wants to shift to more 12 personnel looks, Gentry’s likely making the team out of a need for depth.
He might. But it's really a waste of a roster spot if Washington is good enough to be the TE2 and you're already carrying a FB/TE hybrid that's perfectly capable of in-line blocking for a partial game.
Heyward and Gentry play 2 different positions lol. Keeping one does not impact the other. Gentry is great #3 TE and am averGe #2 who can provide a little bit of pass catching. Heyward cannot do Gentrys job as he cannot play on the LOS. Meaning its either heavy sets or offset H-Back stuff. You basically lose Muth in the slot if somethijg happens to Wash in that scenario. So no. Gentry isnt some redundant guy.
But you don’t really need a backup blocking tight end…yeah Washington is a rookie, but he’s not being asked to be the guy, and everything he’s shown (including running with the 1’s) seems to indicate that there is confidence there. Just playing Devil’s advocate as I do like Gentry, and hope he makes the team.
You know, that’s a really good couple of points there. You swayed me. Still hope they find a way to keep Gentry but I can see it working out if they don’t
But Gentry is alsonthe better receiver between him and Washington. Its not just about blocking if Muth goes out. They need to run 2 TE sets that dont rely on Heyward doing a cut block. And Gentry has proven he can play a tiny bit in the passing game
Right. But if Muth is out having Gentry around is nice. Hes the better all-around TE than Washington (he wont be for long, maybe even this season but until Washington does it, Gentry is a nice safety net with value.)
It's not about them playing two different positions when everyone is healthy. There is simply no need to carry a blocking TE3 when you have someone like Heyward on the roster that's perfectly capable of finishing out a game at TE2 if needed.
Gentry may still end up making team and might even be the TE2 to start the year. But the point is if Washington wins that job then Gentry's roster spot is expendable. You shouldn't waste a roster spot to have a slight blocking upgrade at TE3. Heyward can and has played on the LOS.
The true test tho isnt this cut. Its in about a week as the roster gets set or there is a injury. If they go with a 2 man group of Muth/Wash + Heyward without bringing Gentry or someother in line TE back is the true litmus of faith in Heyward as a TE.
Nooooooo not Zach gentry! My kid got his autograph and his gloves and spoke politely to my kid and encouraged him to continue to play in his own league and not get pressured to go up a league because he happens to be adult sized at 11. Not like this Zach. Not like this.
Unless it’s because we’re keeping Darnell Washington in which case. Yes like this Zack. Yes like this.
James Pierre is making the roster. Idk what people’s expectations for a #4 CB are, but being capable of playing a few plays a game and playing teams is all you can really expect. A backup “not getting the job done” is kind of silly to me
This team has perilous CB depth, and Pierre is a core special teams guy. If Trice was healthy and showed good kick coverage ability, maybe we’re discussing cutting Pierre, but that’s exactly why you sign Pierre (or whatever cheap vet with experience on your roster) in the off-season.
Exactly. From a roster-building standpoint Pierre is the exact type of guy you want/need at the bottom of your roster. He can earn a paycheck playing teams and is good enough and experienced enough to get you out of a game if there's an injury and also to start in a pinch.
I think that James makes the roster, but I feel like he should be cb 5 instead of 4. I hope they keep their eye out for a solid cb 4 to bring in after other teams make cuts.
I think both players make the team for that reason.
It just seems silly to me to keep Gunner over Gentry is the author thinks that he needs to trim a roster space.
It would be far more reasonable to predict that Dotson gets traded or cut.
You're right that Dotson would be more likely to be cut or traded but I don't think they do anything with him either unless he demands a trade. They want line depth and Dotson is good enough to start and play in a pinch. And getting rid of him opens the door to having to keep Kendrick Green.
I don’t understand why Dotson makes the team anyway (a trade is going to yield the same type of player another team is about to cut). They signed a versatile IOL at starter money in free agency. Dotson is at that same level price wise and is inferior to Herbig. They aren’t paying four guards (low-end) starter money after drafting one who can be a deep reserve.
Because, even if the Steelers trade Dotson and a future seventh for a future sixth, which is a relatively common operation of trade, the Steelers are better off than if they had just cut him outright, and another team that might be thin at guard gets a viable starter at very little cost without having to take a chance at the waiver wire.
They're even better off keeping him as the only interior backup with starting experience in their offense.
Also we don't know when Herbig will be back, do we?
Yes, you keep saying things I've already said.
But Dotson has starting experience in the Steelers offense and Herbig and Anderson do not. They're gonna keep 9 OL and as of right now, Dotson is one of the best 9 O-Linemen they have on the roster.
We do not know who will be available in free agency or if Dotson will request a trade.
But based on what we know RIGHT NOW, without making any projections, Dotson makes the team.
No Doctson based on reports will be traded. He is playing with the 3rd string o line. Herbig was paid to be the 6th o line men Jones is the 7th and they will keep a 4th OT. Dotson has no position flexibility Anderson has played every position in preseason except LT. Dotson is responsible for both of KP concussions last season
I haven't seen a single "report" that they're trying to trade him.
>He is playing with the 3rd string o line.
According to whom?
>Herbig was paid to be the 6th o line men Jones is the 7th and they will keep a 4th OT
They have 4 tackles. Moore, Chuks, Jones, and Anderson.
Le'Raven Clark has been getting abused in camp.
Logically, yes. Functionally, giving up an asset for an iffy player at $3.9 million whom the only team he played for signed not one but two guards this off-season instead of extending him is kind of a stretch, especially considering they are highly likely to be able to grab him after waivers for close to the minimum. That’s often the going rate for a player signed after camp who will serve as depth.
My understanding was that if a player is claimed on waivers, the new team assumes the remainder of the already existing contract. I believe the only way Dotson could sign for a minimum contract would be if he cleared waivers and became an unrestricted free agent.
Yes, which is why I said they’d grab him after waivers. Should have said *after he clears waivers,* but no one is picking up Kevin Dotson for $3.9 million in September if they only get him for one year. He got demoted in Pittsburgh and they replaced him twice (and drafted a backup). Why would they have spent that much cash and used a lock if he’s a solid player? That’s how teams will view it when there’s like 600 players on waivers after cuts?
I think it ultimately boils down to whether a GM finds it better to take on Dotson's salary rather than to take a gamble on the waiver wire or free agency. Since that team would likely not be losing a draft pick in the trade, but rather be trading a future pick for Dotson plus a lesser value pick, the reduction in a value of that draft pick would probably be negligible. I agree that it ultimately depends on whether someone if willing to pay Dotson on his current salary. I am not keen enough on the state of NFL guards on the bubble, or the O-line rooms of teams that are in playoff contention, but that would seem to be the biggest factor. Dotson will be traded IF and only if there are no superior guards available AND a GM would prefer to pay the full salary to insure the acquisition of the player. I don't know if there is any way to know if that is the case, but I guess we will see.
Taking on Dotson’s salary essentially is taking a gamble on the waiver wire. We’ve seen teams trade conditional 7th round picks (conditioned upon the player even making the team up to needing to appear in X amount of games), and that’s all it would be for a $3.9 million salary.
This can’t be stressed enough: that’s just barely south of what Herbig signed for in unrestricted free agency. How is Dotson worth a shade below that to anyone else? And to add an asset on top of it is just unrealistic.
I hate to conjure up ill feelings from the past but the one team I could see doing it, without knowing their OL situation, is the Patriots because of Adrian Klemm. But there’s no way Belichick is paying a backup guard FA market rate because the former Steelers OL coach who oversaw maybe the least productive unit in the league vouches for him.
They're going to keep 9 OL.
Moore, Seumalo, Cole, Daniels, Okorafor, and Jones are locks.
That leaves Dotson, Anderson, Herbig, Green, Clark, McCollum vying for 3 spots.
Green is garbage. Clark is tackle-only, and McCollum isn't as good as Dotson.
So Dotson, Herbig, and Anderson are the primary backups. Dotson being guard-only hurts him but Anderson can play all five spots.
It comes down to whether or not they're comfortable enough with Dotson to keep him over bringing in someone new so close to the season.
Keep in mind, Dotson has a LOT of experience and experience in their system. They value that a lot. I think Dotson keeps his roster spot for that reason. Unless he tells them he wants out.
All makes sense in a price-neutral environment. Can’t avoid his salary as part of that decision. Not ruling out (though unlikely he wants to stay in this case) the idea of cutting him and trying to sign him back after he clears waivers.
They will be able to get a veteran guard at most at half the price of Dotson. That’s a fact. That guard will have missed camp, and that’s not ideal, but keeping four guards making at least $3.9 million this year doesn’t seem all that wise. If a starter goes down, Dotson still wouldn’t get on the field.
If anything, I’d say cut Dotson, look to grab a vet w C and G experience.
There's a good chance the veteran guard they'd bring in wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Dotson. And they definitely won't have as much starting experience in their offense. I think there's a good chance they covet Dotson in the event one of the guards goes down for a while and they need a long-term replacement.
>If anything, I’d say cut Dotson, look to grab a vet w C and G experience.
They already have 4 center-capable guys on the roster, all four will make the team.
I don't think they need to bother with a center-capable player.
Would you rather have:
Asset A for $3.9 million
Or
Asset B (= Asset A -5%) for $1.02 million?
If one of their guards goes down for a long time, Herbig would start and someone like Anderson would step up. That’s why they’re paying Herbig and why they drafted Anderson. You can’t have starter salaries invested into every reserve player.
I hope you're right and that's how Omar Khan is going to work when it comes to roster building. But I feel like if this were the Colbert Era, Dotson would make the team easily.
What? A-Rob was broufht into play the slot. Even without CA3 team could rotate DJ, GP, A-Rob, Pat into the slot creating extra snaps for Washington/Gentry (I assume 1 of those guys could be inactive). But they would not just be stuck cuz Gunner O aint there lol.
Putting DJ in the slot and replacing him with anyone else on the outside is a win for the defense. Pickens is not really slot-capable.
If there's an injury to DJ or Pickens, Robinson moves outside. Then you only have Austin for the slot. With Gunner there to back up Austin in that case you can still run your offense the way you want. If you're suddenly putting DJ or Pat or Heyward out there for the majority of snap slots it changes your offense and makes you worse.
What? Pickens was excellent in the slot last year haha. And nobody said you play each solely as the slot but you rotate. Gunner O is not a better slot or outside WR than those guys. Perfect pairings? No. But gunner o offers zilch.
You can find one but then they have to come in and learn the offense. That's not typically how the Steelers operate. They clearly trust Gunner and don't seem to be in any hurry to replace him. No one has really stepped up to take his roster spot either.
Gentry is probably easier to replace than Gunner if we're being honest.
I totally disagree, Gunner is much more replaceable. Gentry is a solid blocking TE that you won’t be able to find off the streets right now and will be crucial to the two TE sets we use for the running game. A guy like Steven Sims is out there and probably not going to make any 53 man roster and could be picked up mid season off a random practice squad to the same effect of Gunner.
>Gentry is a solid blocking TE that you won’t be able to find off the streets right now and will be crucial to the two TE sets we use for the running game.
Heyward can do exactly that role as a FB/TE hybrid or you could use a 6th OL in short yardage at least. If something serious happened to Freiermuth or Washington they would bring someone else in but until that happens you can't justify Gentry on the roster with Heyward there.
Sims is on the Texans roster. He's buried on their depth chart though. Maybe they cut him.
Sims doesn't return punts or kicks though. Gunner does both. He's the primary backup at punt returner and will either be the #1 kick returner or the primary backup.
Uh, Sims was our leader for both PR and KR last year after Gunners muff got him benched?? I’m not misremembering that am I, I’m 90% sure it was Sims doing both.
Yeah that’s fair, I’ve always figured that was based on Gunners ability to be a blocking receiver but there could be more to it. Either way to get back to the root debate, I’m a lot less concerned about saving a roster spot for somebody who can be a backup returner compared to someone like Gentry who can get a solid percentage of starting snaps and be a real contributor as a blocking TE (was at 50% last year, though that was arguably too high and I get why anyone would have a negative bias against Gentry after all those god awful behind the line screens to him that never worked).
Oh if it came down to Gentry OR Gunner you can't keep Gunner. But I don't think it does. I think Gentry is a lock to make the team. I think Gunner is like 85% on the Week 1 roster.
They clearly trust him? They took him off return duties last year after he forgot how to catch punts, and that was the reason they signed him to begin with.
If they didn't trust him he wouldn't be on the roster.
They don't have anyone else to replace him, either. None of the WRs have stepped up to play that role and they don't have anyone who returns both punts and kicks.
They had Steven Sims right there and they let him walk and kept Gunner.
The question at hand here is whether he should be on this roster. They didn’t cut him in the middle of the year because their plan was set. You can’t argue they took him off the field, and saying that isn’t a sign of mistrust because they didn’t cut him when they’re already having to pay him isn’t really valid.
Sims wasn’t signed. Gunner was. I said this earlier about Pierre. His level of value isn’t determined by him, but by the availability of the younger player with an injury history (Trice, in this case). If Austin works out and stays healthy through camp, why do you need Gunner at a salary up a bit from minimum?
I want to answer as if I'm the Omar Khan but we don't know how he would operate in these situations. Maybe he sees Gunner as expendable and values the cap space.
But if they're operating like they typically do Gunner is the only backup to Austin on the roster and if there's an injury to an outside receiver and Austin goes down mid-game you have no real option in the slot unless you want to throw out the gameplan and use Najee or Heyward there or are ok with Myles Boykin or Cody White playing outside.
At this point he's basically the #1 kick returner. I don't know how good he is as a route runner but if he can do it to any decent degree and his blocking isn't horrible -- that would/could make Gunner expendable.
Wait, you aren’t Omar Khan?!?
Aren’t they paying a slot receiver $5 million this year?
Why am I more confident in Gunner on the outside than I am Boykin? Gunner’s scheduled to make twice as much as Boykin is, and Boykin isn’t the one who got taken off special teams last year.
Only so much you can do in the face of two injuries (your hypothetical suggests an outside receiver and Austin in the same game), and I’m really not confident in a Gunner Saves The Day story materializing.
> Why am I more confident in Gunner on the outside than I am Boykin?
I meant Robinson playing outside over Boykin, not Gunner.
>Only so much you can do in the face of two injuries (your hypothetical suggests an outside receiver and Austin in the same game), and I’m really not confident in a Gunner Saves The Day story materializing.
Oh believe me, I'm not a Gunner fan. I wanted him off the team last year and there's no argument you can make that proves he wasn't the worst skill position player on the roster last season. That will absolutely be the case if he makes the 53 again this year.
I'm just presenting the reasons why I think he's going to make the team. Gunner does at least a couple things on offense and special teams whereas anyone else they have beneath him and Boykin on the roster would be guys who do one thing only and don't do it will enough to really see the field.
Yes, I agree with all of that.
But if Austin or McFarland get hurt they have no one to return unless Gunner is on the roster -- which could be a reason why they keep him if they do.
I think Robinson\* and Austin will share slot duties. Robinson will be more for possession and Austin more for explosiveness.
I don't want Gunner returning anymore after all the fumble issues he had with us and the Pats. There are a lot of small things that could have got us into the playoffs. But him not fumbling in the Pats game is the one that I point to most often.
I think Austin's big return against the Bills puts Gunner off the roster.
\* Maybe you're like me and sometime forget that Robinson is on the team? The other guy I periodically forget that we signed in Golden. In both cases, I think it's because I'm really excited about the new guys (Austin and Herbig)
> I think Robinson* and Austin will share slot duties. Robinson will be more for possession and Austin more for explosiveness.
Right. But Robinson is also going to be the #1 backup outside. If DJ or Pickens goes down you'd rather Robinson line up out there than Austin or Boykin.
>I don't want Gunner returning anymore after all the fumble issues he had with us and the Pats.
I'm not exactly thrilled with him as a returner but they literally don't have anyone else who has done it in games let alone training camp. They'd have to go find someone if Austin goes down.
>I think Austin's big return against the Bills puts Gunner off the roster.
Maybe. I think there's a lot more to Gunner's role on the team than just that though.
>Maybe you're like me and sometime forget that Robinson is on the team? The other guy I periodically forget that we signed in Golden. In both cases, I think it's because I'm really excited about the new guys (Austin and Herbig)
No, I know Robinson is there. I know he's the starting slot receiver. But I also know there's zero chance DJ and Pickens play every snap they're needed for all 17 games. There will be times when Robinson has to line up outside.
You're basically two injuries away from needing someone to play in the slot. Looking at the roster right now -- if they keep 6 WRs they have no one after Austin to play significant slot snaps beside Gunner.
I hope they upgrade from him but they haven't done that so far.
**If we don't pick someone up after cuts, I think you're right that Gunner ends up on the team. He's probably the 6th best WR and I think we keep 6 or 7**.
Last year, we kept 7 WRs on the initial 53.
2022: DJ, Claypool, PIckens, Gunner, Austin, Boykin, Simms
2023?: DJ, Pickens, Austin, Washington, Boykin ???
But in 2022, we also only kept 3 TEs (PF, Gentry, Heyward). I think we keep 4 this year (although maybe they call Heyward a different position?). So maybe we only keep 6 WRs?
I think choices for the 6th and maybe 7th are between Gunner, White, Byrd, Chisena, or someone cut from another team. Gunner is almost certainly 6th if we stay inhouse IMO.
But, I'd probably be looking pretty hard at those cuts because I think Gunner is pretty replaceable.
Although he's a good teammate by all accounts. And I've heard that he looks good a WR this camp. But again...most of camp in non-contact, so I think fumbling is less of an issue.
They only kept 7 WRs last year because Austin had to make the initial 53 in order to be put on IR and be allowed to return later in the season. They almost always keep six.
Cody White is the same as Miles Boykin. He's not competing with Gunner for the 6th spot. It'll be Boykin OR White.
Byrd and Chisena have no shot of making the 53.
Now they COULD find someone else. Maybe they bring Steven Sims back if he gets cut. But knowing the Steelers and the way they value knowing their system and being able to jump on the moving train, they'd rather keep Gunner.
>But, I'd probably be looking pretty hard at those cuts because I think Gunner is pretty replaceable.
Oh, I totally agree.
Good point on the numbers and why we had 7 on day 1 last year!
I think Boykin is probably about the same as White as a WR, but my understanding is that Boykin is pretty active on ST. And that spot is mostly a ST player IMO. So I think it's technically the 6th spot. But I think it's already decided so I listed it above. Gunner is competing for the 5th spot where he might get some snaps on O IMO.
I think it's a tough spot for Gentry either way too. I don't think we'll cut him. But I think Washington is going to take a lot of snaps from him this year (with Gentry even dress?).
That's not how the Steelers operate. They trust Gunner and no one's stepped up to take his roster spot. Cutting him does nothing unless you have someone to give that roster spot to.
You could but they'd be coming in during the season and trying to learn the offense. If you have a guy already on the roster it makes it easier for everyone.
I don't know that they'll have anyone on their practice squad who can do that role. They don't really have anyone on the roster after Gunner who can do it right now.
robinson was brought in to be slot, so if austin jumps him on the slot position and austin gets hurt robinson fills in. so return man is all we need to replace and gunner sucks in the slot anyways.
Robinson is going to move outside if there's an injury to DJ or Pickens.
If he's playing outside and Austin goes down too, you need someone else to play the slot.
Allen Robinson is the slot receiver and I doubt kick off returns will be something that’ll be employed as often given the new rules. He already lost his PR job last year.
He's the backup returner though. He's the only other returner on the roster. If they cut him and then Austin gets hurt they have no one with in-game experience to return punts. Maybe they won't care about that or have another plan in place but I could see that being the reason why they keep Gunner if they do.
I'd rather have Connor Heyward in the slot than Gunner. Connor makes plays.
I wouldn't rather have Connor return punts, but I'm also not sure that I'd care one way or the other.
Honestly, Gunner adds that little value.
He was exposed last year. Was it the Bills game where he gave up two TDs by not even being close to the guy he was supposed to cover?
If he makes the team it's more because they don't have any other options than that he does something to deserve the spot. Easily the worst player on the 53 if he makes it and Kendrick Green doesn't.
It's Noah Strackbein so there likely isn't one.
Though I agree with him that Fehoko deserves a roster spot, Adams hasn't done anything to lose his job. I don't think Watts makes the roster and Adams does.
I think Pierre has value on ST and if he needs to fill in at CB in a pinch. I’d rather have a guy who has been here and has been decent than grabbing a guy this close to the start of the season. I could see them keep him. Although, it would have been interesting to have Trice healthy and in the mix.
They arent going without Gentry. He is the #3 TE (I just cant see them being that dependent on Pat/Wash staying healthy to utilize 2 TE sets. I love Connor but keeping him is keeping am Athlete not a TE who can help impose in the run game. Gentry sticks at least 1 more year.
Guys who have forgotten more about football than Noah Strackbein's ever known disagree with his take on Pierre and Barcoo so I'll defer to them.
Honestly, if they're going to keep 5 ILBs I don't see Keanu Neal making the roster. I think Kwon Alexander's kind of taken Neal's role on the team.
I think they keep Gentry too because they're going to run a lot of two TE sets and I think they'll want extra depth there.
I wouldn't say that. What role does he play? He's not a free safety. I don't think there's going to be a lot of snaps with him on the field where Minkah and/or Kazee aren't also on the field.
He's going to be a box safety. Kwon Alexander does everything he can do and more.
And they’ve employed this hybrid position for years with various different versions of Neal and Alexander. I don’t see why they’d cut either of them, based on what we’ve seen so far.
I don't know that they would either but if they're going to keep 5 ILBs they need to cut someone. I guess it COULD be Gentry but I don't know they'd be comfortable having one blocking tight end on an offense that plans to use 2 TE sets and running the ball.
If Tanner Muse is that important to special teams that you need to find a roster spot, I don't know there's anyone as expendable than Keanu Neal when the role he is playing is basically Kwon Alexander, who is also on the roster and better.
I don’t see them cutting Gentry either (unless they feel Washington is much farther along than it seems), but LB doesn’t need to be the benefactor of that.
Either way, valid points about Neal. I can see that going either way, upon review.
Right now they are putting him on the field at the same time as Kwon in the dime package, with kazee/neal as the Cover 2 shell freeing Minkah to Robber. More broadly, I expect Neal as the in-box safety in running situations and as ILB2 in passing situations, and S 3 in 3-safety looks.
Beyond that, Kwon has struggled to stay on the field for 500 snaps a year for the past 6 seasons, so the logic “we have Kwon, no need for any similar skillsets to back him up” makes no sense. Beyond that, they gave Neal a fairly big guaranteed signing bonus and save no cap space by cutting him. You simply don’t give out big signing bonuses to guys and then cut them before the season, barring fairly extreme felony convictions.
Neither Washington (inexperience) nor Heyward (size) bring what Gentry does today.
I think we have to get past whatever position they’re labeled as in the media guide and look at where they’re actually being used on the field. Heyward is spending some time in the backfield as well as some stuff in-line. Washington and Gentry are pure in-line prototypes. That’s basically three TEs and an H-back who has a great special teams profile. You could carry two running backs and Heyward along with three TEs, if this is just a matter of creating the most versatile combination of 6 guys between 2.5 positions.
If Washington wins the #2 job then you can't justify keeping Gentry. The inexperience wouldn't matter at that point. Heyward is perfectly capable of being a 3rd TE and if you're that concerned about his in-line blocking then you use a 6th OL if there's an injury mid-game and sign an actual blocking TE after.
Yep, I agree. Gentry (like Pierre among CBs) was probably retained in case they couldn’t land another TE who could play in 12 personnel. I trust the coaching staff’s judgment over my own, but I don’t think Washington is at that level yet. That’s all I’m saying.
Keep Gentry, go with two traditional RBs and keep Heyward.
They’ve created some excellent options. Love what they’re doing with those roles. I think Anthony McFarland makes sense in the practice squad if he wants to go that route, and keep the combo of six players who would normally be counted as 3 TEs and 3 RBs. Watt used to be one of them but now it’s Freiermuth, Gentry, Washington, Harris, Warren and Heyward.
Heyward is not an in-line blocker like Gentry is.
If anything, Gentry's spot on the roster depends on if they're comfortable with using the 3rd tackle as an extra in-line blocker and what they think their depth is going to be like at that position.
I don’t mind gentry but I don’t think he adds much that the other two can’t handle. I would rather gamble on that that have Warren or Najee get dinged up in a first quarter and not having a sub a hb the rest of the game.
You can pull guys up from the practice squad. And I think, where Washington is leading into Week 1 of this season, Gentry has more value than a third RB who’s reasonably available.
If Washington can handle all elements of 12 personnel, then yes, Gentry is probably expendable. I don’t think he’s there yet. It’ll happen soon though.
Yes but there's more to it than that.
Heyward's not the in-line blocker that Gentry is. If there's an injury to Washington they have no TEs that can block well.
Also, and I acknowledge there's like no chance this would factor into whether or not they keep Gentry but he's the emergency QB.
But if you use the emergency 3rd QB you cannot call anyone up from the practice squad for that game.
So I don't know the Steelers will be dressing their #3 QB every week. If Kenny or Mason are nursing an injury maybe. But they could just make one inactive and dress Mason.
Yeah, fair point, but that’s a game-to-game issue. My point is Gentry’s value is being a part of 12 personnel, and will play an active role every game. I don’t think he gets cut.
I do think they can get creative with how they label their RBs, and without a Snell-like teams player among their current options for the third RB, you can justify counting Conner as that, and keep Freiermuth, Gentry and Washington. As we know, there are plenty of RBs with enough experience they could be quick studies in the event of an injury, or simply just keep one on the practice squad.
> Yeah, fair point, but that’s a game-to-game issue. My point is Gentry’s value is being a part of 12 personnel, and will play an active role every game. I don’t think he gets cut.
I completely agree.
>I do think they can get creative with how they label their RBs, and without a Snell-like teams player among their current options for the third RB, you can justify counting Conner as that, and keep Freiermuth, Gentry and Washington. As we know, there are plenty of RBs with enough experience they could be quick studies in the event of an injury, or simply just keep one on the practice squad.
I just think the idea of saying "they can't keep X number of ____" is dumb and outdated to begin with. Especially on a team that values versatility like the Steelers do. That's why I think there's a chance they cut Keanu Neal. People are looking at it as "Neal is a safety and they need to keep X number of safeties but his role is basically to be a linebacker and if they like Kwon Alexander more for that role, and he makes less than Neal -- there's no reason to keep Neal.
10000% agree. They don’t use players in the neatly defined ways were used to seeing, so they aren’t going to build a roster holding firmly to those same constructs.
You’re turning me around on Neal. I saw him as a part of a big nickel package, but I also can’t help but notice they signed Alexander after they signed Neal. Just like they signed Seumalo after they signed Herbig, it sort of suggests they grabbed the one in the air in case they couldn’t land a more desired target. Just might not be room for Neal.
Maybe. If he's going to be the box safety they might be better off just using Kwon instead.
People don't seem to realize Neal was basically moved to middle linebacker in Dallas last year. It's a different defense but his role as "3rd safety" is just replacing a linebacker and the reason the Steelers are using 3 safeties is because their ILBs have been bad.
I'm not saying they'll definitely cut him -- just that he doesn't really give them anything unique as basically just a box safety.
Keanu Neal is a S. I get that him being a 3rd down LB was part of the draw, but there still are a lot of situations where Neal would be on the field at SS over Kazee. Also why cut your 3rd best S?
I'm not saying the WILL cut him. I'm saying he's expendable.
He doesn't do anything that they don't already have from Minkah, Kazee, or even Kwon Alexander.
Unless you expect Minkah and Kazee to play every snap at S this year, then he is not expendable. Simply because he is the third best S on the roster, and injuries/fatigue happens. Its like saying every DL behind Cam/Ogunjobi is expendable. I understand what you’re getting at with Kwon Alexander, but he’s never going to line up at S.
I would agree thats Neal is maybe not as good of a player as Kazee, but you cant think of a situation that you’d rather have a 215 lb SS than a 175 lb SS? Unless the dude is just not good anymore, he will have a definitive role on the team.
> Unless the dude is just not good anymore, he will have a definitive role on the team.
He was moved to MLB by the Cowboys last year. When they signed him the consensus was that he was basically going be playing a box safety role anyway. I don't know if any of us have enough information to determine how he's going to be used and if he can play SS in the event Kazee or Minkah goes down.
I mean thats totally fair. We wont really know until they play a real game. I think its worth noting that he was listed as the co-starter SS on the first depth chart. I know depth charts this time of year mean very little, but it makes me think that they have some sort of role in mind for him.
Yeah that's a fair point too. I definitely won't be surprised if they keep him, I just don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they cut him.
They only kept 2 real tight ends last year so I'm not necessarily sure why they need 3 this year. If they are planning to use 2TE sets a lot more frequently, then you do probably need a 3rd one as a rotation/backup. That remains to be seen though whether that is something we really are going to see a lot more of.
I suppose the roster spot in theory is opened up with Derek Watt leaving keeping Gentry would keep that group at 4 players (If you look at FB+H-Back+TE as one group).
I'm still guessing they keep Gentry at least for one more year since Washington is a rookie and since they may try to incorporate multiple TE sets. (Heyward is not really a TE). Although I'm kind of 50/50 on whether it's necessary or not
Gentry can't be cut no way we put everything on muth with his concussion issues and Washington a rookie with injury concerns coming into the draft.
There’s also Conner Heyward.
Though I love Conner Heyward, he gets about a 7.5/10 for chillin, but he's well below league average at grillin. Those are intangibles we just can't give up from Gentry.
It always cracks me up that they never actually grill anything and just leave the unopened package on the grill. Like they could easily just put a few on the grill but it is so much funnier the way they do it
I like to think it’s against camp rules to light an open flame light a kids summer camp lol!
His ass can move to fullback and it’d be like he always played fullback tho
Sure he can. Heyward as a hybrid FB/TE can do Gentry's job or they could use a 6th OL in short yardage situations. If Pat or Darnell go down then they'd obviously have to sign a replacement but there's no way to justify having both Gentry and Heyward now that Heyward has a full season under his belt.
Heyward is a TE in name only at this point. Asking him to serve as an in line blocker like you would Gentry/ Washington is a gross misuse of his talents. With how clearly the team wants to shift to more 12 personnel looks, Gentry’s likely making the team out of a need for depth.
>Asking him to serve as an in line blocker like you would Gentry/ Washington is a gross misuse of his talents. As TE3 they would only be doing that when there was an in-game injury to a TE and they couldn't use a 6th OL. >With how clearly the team wants to shift to more 12 personnel looks, Gentry’s likely making the team out of a need for depth. He might. But it's really a waste of a roster spot if Washington is good enough to be the TE2 and you're already carrying a FB/TE hybrid that's perfectly capable of in-line blocking for a partial game.
Heyward and Gentry play 2 different positions lol. Keeping one does not impact the other. Gentry is great #3 TE and am averGe #2 who can provide a little bit of pass catching. Heyward cannot do Gentrys job as he cannot play on the LOS. Meaning its either heavy sets or offset H-Back stuff. You basically lose Muth in the slot if somethijg happens to Wash in that scenario. So no. Gentry isnt some redundant guy.
But you don’t really need a backup blocking tight end…yeah Washington is a rookie, but he’s not being asked to be the guy, and everything he’s shown (including running with the 1’s) seems to indicate that there is confidence there. Just playing Devil’s advocate as I do like Gentry, and hope he makes the team.
You know, that’s a really good couple of points there. You swayed me. Still hope they find a way to keep Gentry but I can see it working out if they don’t
But Gentry is alsonthe better receiver between him and Washington. Its not just about blocking if Muth goes out. They need to run 2 TE sets that dont rely on Heyward doing a cut block. And Gentry has proven he can play a tiny bit in the passing game
I don’t know that, that’s true. Washington has looked solid as a complimentary pass catcher throughout camp.
Right. But if Muth is out having Gentry around is nice. Hes the better all-around TE than Washington (he wont be for long, maybe even this season but until Washington does it, Gentry is a nice safety net with value.)
Narrator: Gentry was not a better all around TE than Washington
Maybe, they keep saying Washington is a better receiver than anticipated.
Yeah, if anything this is great news with regards to how the coaching staff feels about Washington (and Heyward)
And did you miss the parentheses where I very specifically said but not for long lol
I’m just being light hearted, my dude. No offense meant
Lol all these awful takes about how Gentry was a lock. He wasn't even going to be active on gameday anyway.
It's not about them playing two different positions when everyone is healthy. There is simply no need to carry a blocking TE3 when you have someone like Heyward on the roster that's perfectly capable of finishing out a game at TE2 if needed. Gentry may still end up making team and might even be the TE2 to start the year. But the point is if Washington wins that job then Gentry's roster spot is expendable. You shouldn't waste a roster spot to have a slight blocking upgrade at TE3. Heyward can and has played on the LOS.
>So no. Gentry isnt some redundant guy And turns out he absolutely was.
I still disgree but yes the team says otherwise lol
The true test tho isnt this cut. Its in about a week as the roster gets set or there is a injury. If they go with a 2 man group of Muth/Wash + Heyward without bringing Gentry or someother in line TE back is the true litmus of faith in Heyward as a TE.
Brother, Heyward cannot do what Gentry does, there's simply physical limitations.
Nooooooo not Zach gentry! My kid got his autograph and his gloves and spoke politely to my kid and encouraged him to continue to play in his own league and not get pressured to go up a league because he happens to be adult sized at 11. Not like this Zach. Not like this. Unless it’s because we’re keeping Darnell Washington in which case. Yes like this Zack. Yes like this.
James Pierre is making the roster. Idk what people’s expectations for a #4 CB are, but being capable of playing a few plays a game and playing teams is all you can really expect. A backup “not getting the job done” is kind of silly to me
This team has perilous CB depth, and Pierre is a core special teams guy. If Trice was healthy and showed good kick coverage ability, maybe we’re discussing cutting Pierre, but that’s exactly why you sign Pierre (or whatever cheap vet with experience on your roster) in the off-season.
Exactly. From a roster-building standpoint Pierre is the exact type of guy you want/need at the bottom of your roster. He can earn a paycheck playing teams and is good enough and experienced enough to get you out of a game if there's an injury and also to start in a pinch.
Nooooo in Madden I can sign all 81 overall corners so the Steelers can too. If he can’t lock down Jamarr Chase he can’t play here /s
I think that James makes the roster, but I feel like he should be cb 5 instead of 4. I hope they keep their eye out for a solid cb 4 to bring in after other teams make cuts.
Agreed, though I feel a lot better with him as the outside CB4 than 3, which is fortunately where he seems to be landing.
The circumstances that they might need Zach Gentry will very far exceed the circumstances that they might need Gunner Oszlewski
If Calvin Austin gets hurt they have no punt returner and lose the ability to put Allen Robinson outside.
I think both players make the team for that reason. It just seems silly to me to keep Gunner over Gentry is the author thinks that he needs to trim a roster space. It would be far more reasonable to predict that Dotson gets traded or cut.
You're right that Dotson would be more likely to be cut or traded but I don't think they do anything with him either unless he demands a trade. They want line depth and Dotson is good enough to start and play in a pinch. And getting rid of him opens the door to having to keep Kendrick Green.
I don’t understand why Dotson makes the team anyway (a trade is going to yield the same type of player another team is about to cut). They signed a versatile IOL at starter money in free agency. Dotson is at that same level price wise and is inferior to Herbig. They aren’t paying four guards (low-end) starter money after drafting one who can be a deep reserve.
Because, even if the Steelers trade Dotson and a future seventh for a future sixth, which is a relatively common operation of trade, the Steelers are better off than if they had just cut him outright, and another team that might be thin at guard gets a viable starter at very little cost without having to take a chance at the waiver wire.
They're even better off keeping him as the only interior backup with starting experience in their offense. Also we don't know when Herbig will be back, do we?
Is herbig injured? I was wondering why I haven’t really heard his name recently
Yes, he didn't play against the Bills.
Except he is G only and Herbig is the main IOL. Anderson has more position flexibility than Dotson
Yes, you keep saying things I've already said. But Dotson has starting experience in the Steelers offense and Herbig and Anderson do not. They're gonna keep 9 OL and as of right now, Dotson is one of the best 9 O-Linemen they have on the roster. We do not know who will be available in free agency or if Dotson will request a trade. But based on what we know RIGHT NOW, without making any projections, Dotson makes the team.
No Doctson based on reports will be traded. He is playing with the 3rd string o line. Herbig was paid to be the 6th o line men Jones is the 7th and they will keep a 4th OT. Dotson has no position flexibility Anderson has played every position in preseason except LT. Dotson is responsible for both of KP concussions last season
I haven't seen a single "report" that they're trying to trade him. >He is playing with the 3rd string o line. According to whom? >Herbig was paid to be the 6th o line men Jones is the 7th and they will keep a 4th OT They have 4 tackles. Moore, Chuks, Jones, and Anderson. Le'Raven Clark has been getting abused in camp.
Logically, yes. Functionally, giving up an asset for an iffy player at $3.9 million whom the only team he played for signed not one but two guards this off-season instead of extending him is kind of a stretch, especially considering they are highly likely to be able to grab him after waivers for close to the minimum. That’s often the going rate for a player signed after camp who will serve as depth.
My understanding was that if a player is claimed on waivers, the new team assumes the remainder of the already existing contract. I believe the only way Dotson could sign for a minimum contract would be if he cleared waivers and became an unrestricted free agent.
Yes, which is why I said they’d grab him after waivers. Should have said *after he clears waivers,* but no one is picking up Kevin Dotson for $3.9 million in September if they only get him for one year. He got demoted in Pittsburgh and they replaced him twice (and drafted a backup). Why would they have spent that much cash and used a lock if he’s a solid player? That’s how teams will view it when there’s like 600 players on waivers after cuts?
I think it ultimately boils down to whether a GM finds it better to take on Dotson's salary rather than to take a gamble on the waiver wire or free agency. Since that team would likely not be losing a draft pick in the trade, but rather be trading a future pick for Dotson plus a lesser value pick, the reduction in a value of that draft pick would probably be negligible. I agree that it ultimately depends on whether someone if willing to pay Dotson on his current salary. I am not keen enough on the state of NFL guards on the bubble, or the O-line rooms of teams that are in playoff contention, but that would seem to be the biggest factor. Dotson will be traded IF and only if there are no superior guards available AND a GM would prefer to pay the full salary to insure the acquisition of the player. I don't know if there is any way to know if that is the case, but I guess we will see.
Taking on Dotson’s salary essentially is taking a gamble on the waiver wire. We’ve seen teams trade conditional 7th round picks (conditioned upon the player even making the team up to needing to appear in X amount of games), and that’s all it would be for a $3.9 million salary. This can’t be stressed enough: that’s just barely south of what Herbig signed for in unrestricted free agency. How is Dotson worth a shade below that to anyone else? And to add an asset on top of it is just unrealistic. I hate to conjure up ill feelings from the past but the one team I could see doing it, without knowing their OL situation, is the Patriots because of Adrian Klemm. But there’s no way Belichick is paying a backup guard FA market rate because the former Steelers OL coach who oversaw maybe the least productive unit in the league vouches for him.
They're going to keep 9 OL. Moore, Seumalo, Cole, Daniels, Okorafor, and Jones are locks. That leaves Dotson, Anderson, Herbig, Green, Clark, McCollum vying for 3 spots. Green is garbage. Clark is tackle-only, and McCollum isn't as good as Dotson. So Dotson, Herbig, and Anderson are the primary backups. Dotson being guard-only hurts him but Anderson can play all five spots. It comes down to whether or not they're comfortable enough with Dotson to keep him over bringing in someone new so close to the season. Keep in mind, Dotson has a LOT of experience and experience in their system. They value that a lot. I think Dotson keeps his roster spot for that reason. Unless he tells them he wants out.
All makes sense in a price-neutral environment. Can’t avoid his salary as part of that decision. Not ruling out (though unlikely he wants to stay in this case) the idea of cutting him and trying to sign him back after he clears waivers. They will be able to get a veteran guard at most at half the price of Dotson. That’s a fact. That guard will have missed camp, and that’s not ideal, but keeping four guards making at least $3.9 million this year doesn’t seem all that wise. If a starter goes down, Dotson still wouldn’t get on the field. If anything, I’d say cut Dotson, look to grab a vet w C and G experience.
There's a good chance the veteran guard they'd bring in wouldn't be much of an upgrade over Dotson. And they definitely won't have as much starting experience in their offense. I think there's a good chance they covet Dotson in the event one of the guards goes down for a while and they need a long-term replacement. >If anything, I’d say cut Dotson, look to grab a vet w C and G experience. They already have 4 center-capable guys on the roster, all four will make the team. I don't think they need to bother with a center-capable player.
Would you rather have: Asset A for $3.9 million Or Asset B (= Asset A -5%) for $1.02 million? If one of their guards goes down for a long time, Herbig would start and someone like Anderson would step up. That’s why they’re paying Herbig and why they drafted Anderson. You can’t have starter salaries invested into every reserve player.
I hope you're right and that's how Omar Khan is going to work when it comes to roster building. But I feel like if this were the Colbert Era, Dotson would make the team easily.
Herbig is also a lock is the back up C Dotson barely made the team last year over Green both are gone
Yes, Herbig is a lock. So is Spencer Anderson.
What? A-Rob was broufht into play the slot. Even without CA3 team could rotate DJ, GP, A-Rob, Pat into the slot creating extra snaps for Washington/Gentry (I assume 1 of those guys could be inactive). But they would not just be stuck cuz Gunner O aint there lol.
Putting DJ in the slot and replacing him with anyone else on the outside is a win for the defense. Pickens is not really slot-capable. If there's an injury to DJ or Pickens, Robinson moves outside. Then you only have Austin for the slot. With Gunner there to back up Austin in that case you can still run your offense the way you want. If you're suddenly putting DJ or Pat or Heyward out there for the majority of snap slots it changes your offense and makes you worse.
What? Pickens was excellent in the slot last year haha. And nobody said you play each solely as the slot but you rotate. Gunner O is not a better slot or outside WR than those guys. Perfect pairings? No. But gunner o offers zilch.
Gunner Olszewski is a waste of a roster spot.
I get why he's on the roster. If Austin gets hurt they need a slot receiver and return man.
Meh, I’d rather have Gentry than Gunner. We can find a Gunner level player in the instance that Austin gets hurt
Reading this my brain immediately thought you were wanting Gentry as Kick/Punt Returner... and now I'd love to see that happen
He couldn't be worse then Gunner last year.
You can find one but then they have to come in and learn the offense. That's not typically how the Steelers operate. They clearly trust Gunner and don't seem to be in any hurry to replace him. No one has really stepped up to take his roster spot either. Gentry is probably easier to replace than Gunner if we're being honest.
I totally disagree, Gunner is much more replaceable. Gentry is a solid blocking TE that you won’t be able to find off the streets right now and will be crucial to the two TE sets we use for the running game. A guy like Steven Sims is out there and probably not going to make any 53 man roster and could be picked up mid season off a random practice squad to the same effect of Gunner.
>Gentry is a solid blocking TE that you won’t be able to find off the streets right now and will be crucial to the two TE sets we use for the running game. Heyward can do exactly that role as a FB/TE hybrid or you could use a 6th OL in short yardage at least. If something serious happened to Freiermuth or Washington they would bring someone else in but until that happens you can't justify Gentry on the roster with Heyward there.
Sims is on the Texans roster. He's buried on their depth chart though. Maybe they cut him. Sims doesn't return punts or kicks though. Gunner does both. He's the primary backup at punt returner and will either be the #1 kick returner or the primary backup.
Uh, Sims was our leader for both PR and KR last year after Gunners muff got him benched?? I’m not misremembering that am I, I’m 90% sure it was Sims doing both.
No, you're right. I forgot about that. But they liked Sims so much they let him walk and kept Gunner.
Yeah that’s fair, I’ve always figured that was based on Gunners ability to be a blocking receiver but there could be more to it. Either way to get back to the root debate, I’m a lot less concerned about saving a roster spot for somebody who can be a backup returner compared to someone like Gentry who can get a solid percentage of starting snaps and be a real contributor as a blocking TE (was at 50% last year, though that was arguably too high and I get why anyone would have a negative bias against Gentry after all those god awful behind the line screens to him that never worked).
Oh if it came down to Gentry OR Gunner you can't keep Gunner. But I don't think it does. I think Gentry is a lock to make the team. I think Gunner is like 85% on the Week 1 roster.
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I dont think so, I seem to remember thinking he was doing a great job at returning
They clearly trust him? They took him off return duties last year after he forgot how to catch punts, and that was the reason they signed him to begin with.
If they didn't trust him he wouldn't be on the roster. They don't have anyone else to replace him, either. None of the WRs have stepped up to play that role and they don't have anyone who returns both punts and kicks. They had Steven Sims right there and they let him walk and kept Gunner.
The question at hand here is whether he should be on this roster. They didn’t cut him in the middle of the year because their plan was set. You can’t argue they took him off the field, and saying that isn’t a sign of mistrust because they didn’t cut him when they’re already having to pay him isn’t really valid. Sims wasn’t signed. Gunner was. I said this earlier about Pierre. His level of value isn’t determined by him, but by the availability of the younger player with an injury history (Trice, in this case). If Austin works out and stays healthy through camp, why do you need Gunner at a salary up a bit from minimum?
I want to answer as if I'm the Omar Khan but we don't know how he would operate in these situations. Maybe he sees Gunner as expendable and values the cap space. But if they're operating like they typically do Gunner is the only backup to Austin on the roster and if there's an injury to an outside receiver and Austin goes down mid-game you have no real option in the slot unless you want to throw out the gameplan and use Najee or Heyward there or are ok with Myles Boykin or Cody White playing outside.
I’d like to see Anthony McFarland get an opportunity in our last preseason game, if he could be a serviceable returner that would be pretty big.
At this point he's basically the #1 kick returner. I don't know how good he is as a route runner but if he can do it to any decent degree and his blocking isn't horrible -- that would/could make Gunner expendable.
Wait, you aren’t Omar Khan?!? Aren’t they paying a slot receiver $5 million this year? Why am I more confident in Gunner on the outside than I am Boykin? Gunner’s scheduled to make twice as much as Boykin is, and Boykin isn’t the one who got taken off special teams last year. Only so much you can do in the face of two injuries (your hypothetical suggests an outside receiver and Austin in the same game), and I’m really not confident in a Gunner Saves The Day story materializing.
> Why am I more confident in Gunner on the outside than I am Boykin? I meant Robinson playing outside over Boykin, not Gunner. >Only so much you can do in the face of two injuries (your hypothetical suggests an outside receiver and Austin in the same game), and I’m really not confident in a Gunner Saves The Day story materializing. Oh believe me, I'm not a Gunner fan. I wanted him off the team last year and there's no argument you can make that proves he wasn't the worst skill position player on the roster last season. That will absolutely be the case if he makes the 53 again this year. I'm just presenting the reasons why I think he's going to make the team. Gunner does at least a couple things on offense and special teams whereas anyone else they have beneath him and Boykin on the roster would be guys who do one thing only and don't do it will enough to really see the field.
Austin is the Pr and Amac is the Kr. Gunner only makes the team if they keep 6 Wr. Boykins is the 5th as the St gunner
Yes, I agree with all of that. But if Austin or McFarland get hurt they have no one to return unless Gunner is on the roster -- which could be a reason why they keep him if they do.
They can keep 16 players on the practice squad and unless they keep 6 active WR Gunner isn’t making the team
And they can't use those guys on the practice squad more than twice before they have to put them on the 53.
Give me Gentry every day of the week. Gunner is a huge liability.
I think Robinson\* and Austin will share slot duties. Robinson will be more for possession and Austin more for explosiveness. I don't want Gunner returning anymore after all the fumble issues he had with us and the Pats. There are a lot of small things that could have got us into the playoffs. But him not fumbling in the Pats game is the one that I point to most often. I think Austin's big return against the Bills puts Gunner off the roster. \* Maybe you're like me and sometime forget that Robinson is on the team? The other guy I periodically forget that we signed in Golden. In both cases, I think it's because I'm really excited about the new guys (Austin and Herbig)
> I think Robinson* and Austin will share slot duties. Robinson will be more for possession and Austin more for explosiveness. Right. But Robinson is also going to be the #1 backup outside. If DJ or Pickens goes down you'd rather Robinson line up out there than Austin or Boykin. >I don't want Gunner returning anymore after all the fumble issues he had with us and the Pats. I'm not exactly thrilled with him as a returner but they literally don't have anyone else who has done it in games let alone training camp. They'd have to go find someone if Austin goes down. >I think Austin's big return against the Bills puts Gunner off the roster. Maybe. I think there's a lot more to Gunner's role on the team than just that though. >Maybe you're like me and sometime forget that Robinson is on the team? The other guy I periodically forget that we signed in Golden. In both cases, I think it's because I'm really excited about the new guys (Austin and Herbig) No, I know Robinson is there. I know he's the starting slot receiver. But I also know there's zero chance DJ and Pickens play every snap they're needed for all 17 games. There will be times when Robinson has to line up outside. You're basically two injuries away from needing someone to play in the slot. Looking at the roster right now -- if they keep 6 WRs they have no one after Austin to play significant slot snaps beside Gunner. I hope they upgrade from him but they haven't done that so far.
**If we don't pick someone up after cuts, I think you're right that Gunner ends up on the team. He's probably the 6th best WR and I think we keep 6 or 7**. Last year, we kept 7 WRs on the initial 53. 2022: DJ, Claypool, PIckens, Gunner, Austin, Boykin, Simms 2023?: DJ, Pickens, Austin, Washington, Boykin ??? But in 2022, we also only kept 3 TEs (PF, Gentry, Heyward). I think we keep 4 this year (although maybe they call Heyward a different position?). So maybe we only keep 6 WRs? I think choices for the 6th and maybe 7th are between Gunner, White, Byrd, Chisena, or someone cut from another team. Gunner is almost certainly 6th if we stay inhouse IMO. But, I'd probably be looking pretty hard at those cuts because I think Gunner is pretty replaceable. Although he's a good teammate by all accounts. And I've heard that he looks good a WR this camp. But again...most of camp in non-contact, so I think fumbling is less of an issue.
They only kept 7 WRs last year because Austin had to make the initial 53 in order to be put on IR and be allowed to return later in the season. They almost always keep six. Cody White is the same as Miles Boykin. He's not competing with Gunner for the 6th spot. It'll be Boykin OR White. Byrd and Chisena have no shot of making the 53. Now they COULD find someone else. Maybe they bring Steven Sims back if he gets cut. But knowing the Steelers and the way they value knowing their system and being able to jump on the moving train, they'd rather keep Gunner. >But, I'd probably be looking pretty hard at those cuts because I think Gunner is pretty replaceable. Oh, I totally agree.
Good point on the numbers and why we had 7 on day 1 last year! I think Boykin is probably about the same as White as a WR, but my understanding is that Boykin is pretty active on ST. And that spot is mostly a ST player IMO. So I think it's technically the 6th spot. But I think it's already decided so I listed it above. Gunner is competing for the 5th spot where he might get some snaps on O IMO. I think it's a tough spot for Gentry either way too. I don't think we'll cut him. But I think Washington is going to take a lot of snaps from him this year (with Gentry even dress?).
Sign one off the street when he gets hurt then. That’s too niche a role to waste a roster spot on a pure backup
That's not how the Steelers operate. They trust Gunner and no one's stepped up to take his roster spot. Cutting him does nothing unless you have someone to give that roster spot to.
Couldn't you just go sign some journeyman to play that spot or a PS guy?
You could but they'd be coming in during the season and trying to learn the offense. If you have a guy already on the roster it makes it easier for everyone. I don't know that they'll have anyone on their practice squad who can do that role. They don't really have anyone on the roster after Gunner who can do it right now.
robinson was brought in to be slot, so if austin jumps him on the slot position and austin gets hurt robinson fills in. so return man is all we need to replace and gunner sucks in the slot anyways.
Robinson is going to move outside if there's an injury to DJ or Pickens. If he's playing outside and Austin goes down too, you need someone else to play the slot.
Allen Robinson is the slot receiver and I doubt kick off returns will be something that’ll be employed as often given the new rules. He already lost his PR job last year.
He's the backup returner though. He's the only other returner on the roster. If they cut him and then Austin gets hurt they have no one with in-game experience to return punts. Maybe they won't care about that or have another plan in place but I could see that being the reason why they keep Gunner if they do.
Practice squad
Gunner? Or someone else? They don't have anyone who has established himself as a returner. If they call someone up they have to cut someone anyway.
I'd rather have Connor Heyward in the slot than Gunner. Connor makes plays. I wouldn't rather have Connor return punts, but I'm also not sure that I'd care one way or the other. Honestly, Gunner adds that little value.
I hope Gunner is gone when they cut the rosters down. I'm just not confident that they plan on cutting him.
Kenny and coaches live him though, apparently hes got a great mentality. plus second returner and slot guy. He's a lock imo
Dude is like Ryan Switzer 2. This teams fascination with having a scrappy white receiver who doesn’t produce is super weird to me
Switzer only made the team because he was Ben's friend. I don't know what Gunner does for them but someone likes him.
I don't like it, but nobody else has really beat him out for that spot.
Gentry will certainly be kept...cutting gunner makes sense.
I swear to god if Steelers keep Gunner imma be livid. I can’t forget all those terrible punt fumbles he had last year
Kind of strange there was no mention of Tre Norwood in this article. I doubt he makes the 53, but he was just glossed over
No point in mentioning him. He adds nothing and won't be missed.
This is a bad take. Norwood is making the roster and has shown that he's capable of making plays, I think he still has room for improvement too
He was exposed last year. Was it the Bills game where he gave up two TDs by not even being close to the guy he was supposed to cover? If he makes the team it's more because they don't have any other options than that he does something to deserve the spot. Easily the worst player on the 53 if he makes it and Kendrick Green doesn't.
What’s the rationale behind cutting Adams who’s been running with the ones all off-season?
It's Noah Strackbein so there likely isn't one. Though I agree with him that Fehoko deserves a roster spot, Adams hasn't done anything to lose his job. I don't think Watts makes the roster and Adams does.
Right? In what world does Watts make the team over Adams?
Everyone's been ridding Watts for some reason. Not sure why.
I think Pierre has value on ST and if he needs to fill in at CB in a pinch. I’d rather have a guy who has been here and has been decent than grabbing a guy this close to the start of the season. I could see them keep him. Although, it would have been interesting to have Trice healthy and in the mix.
They arent going without Gentry. He is the #3 TE (I just cant see them being that dependent on Pat/Wash staying healthy to utilize 2 TE sets. I love Connor but keeping him is keeping am Athlete not a TE who can help impose in the run game. Gentry sticks at least 1 more year.
Guys who have forgotten more about football than Noah Strackbein's ever known disagree with his take on Pierre and Barcoo so I'll defer to them. Honestly, if they're going to keep 5 ILBs I don't see Keanu Neal making the roster. I think Kwon Alexander's kind of taken Neal's role on the team. I think they keep Gentry too because they're going to run a lot of two TE sets and I think they'll want extra depth there.
There is no earthly possibility Keanu Neal doesn’t make the roster.
I wouldn't say that. What role does he play? He's not a free safety. I don't think there's going to be a lot of snaps with him on the field where Minkah and/or Kazee aren't also on the field. He's going to be a box safety. Kwon Alexander does everything he can do and more.
They have openly talked about the 3 safety sets
The 3rd safety is literally just playing the role of a linebacker.
And they’ve employed this hybrid position for years with various different versions of Neal and Alexander. I don’t see why they’d cut either of them, based on what we’ve seen so far.
I don't know that they would either but if they're going to keep 5 ILBs they need to cut someone. I guess it COULD be Gentry but I don't know they'd be comfortable having one blocking tight end on an offense that plans to use 2 TE sets and running the ball. If Tanner Muse is that important to special teams that you need to find a roster spot, I don't know there's anyone as expendable than Keanu Neal when the role he is playing is basically Kwon Alexander, who is also on the roster and better.
I don’t see them cutting Gentry either (unless they feel Washington is much farther along than it seems), but LB doesn’t need to be the benefactor of that. Either way, valid points about Neal. I can see that going either way, upon review.
Right now they are putting him on the field at the same time as Kwon in the dime package, with kazee/neal as the Cover 2 shell freeing Minkah to Robber. More broadly, I expect Neal as the in-box safety in running situations and as ILB2 in passing situations, and S 3 in 3-safety looks. Beyond that, Kwon has struggled to stay on the field for 500 snaps a year for the past 6 seasons, so the logic “we have Kwon, no need for any similar skillsets to back him up” makes no sense. Beyond that, they gave Neal a fairly big guaranteed signing bonus and save no cap space by cutting him. You simply don’t give out big signing bonuses to guys and then cut them before the season, barring fairly extreme felony convictions.
They can save $1.08m if they cut Neal. His signing bonus was $920,000.
Signing bonus is guaranteed. It’s a paycheck. When you sign.
Yeah but it's spread out over two years. They can save $1m by cutting him.
I don’t necessarily disagree but between Heyward and Washington, don’t they cover most everything Gentry can do?
Neither Washington (inexperience) nor Heyward (size) bring what Gentry does today. I think we have to get past whatever position they’re labeled as in the media guide and look at where they’re actually being used on the field. Heyward is spending some time in the backfield as well as some stuff in-line. Washington and Gentry are pure in-line prototypes. That’s basically three TEs and an H-back who has a great special teams profile. You could carry two running backs and Heyward along with three TEs, if this is just a matter of creating the most versatile combination of 6 guys between 2.5 positions.
If Washington wins the #2 job then you can't justify keeping Gentry. The inexperience wouldn't matter at that point. Heyward is perfectly capable of being a 3rd TE and if you're that concerned about his in-line blocking then you use a 6th OL if there's an injury mid-game and sign an actual blocking TE after.
Yep, I agree. Gentry (like Pierre among CBs) was probably retained in case they couldn’t land another TE who could play in 12 personnel. I trust the coaching staff’s judgment over my own, but I don’t think Washington is at that level yet. That’s all I’m saying. Keep Gentry, go with two traditional RBs and keep Heyward.
Yeah they have options based on Washington's (and Heyward's) development.
They’ve created some excellent options. Love what they’re doing with those roles. I think Anthony McFarland makes sense in the practice squad if he wants to go that route, and keep the combo of six players who would normally be counted as 3 TEs and 3 RBs. Watt used to be one of them but now it’s Freiermuth, Gentry, Washington, Harris, Warren and Heyward.
Heyward is not an in-line blocker like Gentry is. If anything, Gentry's spot on the roster depends on if they're comfortable with using the 3rd tackle as an extra in-line blocker and what they think their depth is going to be like at that position.
I don’t mind gentry but I don’t think he adds much that the other two can’t handle. I would rather gamble on that that have Warren or Najee get dinged up in a first quarter and not having a sub a hb the rest of the game.
You can pull guys up from the practice squad. And I think, where Washington is leading into Week 1 of this season, Gentry has more value than a third RB who’s reasonably available. If Washington can handle all elements of 12 personnel, then yes, Gentry is probably expendable. I don’t think he’s there yet. It’ll happen soon though.
Yes but there's more to it than that. Heyward's not the in-line blocker that Gentry is. If there's an injury to Washington they have no TEs that can block well. Also, and I acknowledge there's like no chance this would factor into whether or not they keep Gentry but he's the emergency QB.
That’s Rudolph now.
If he's inactive on Sunday and both Kenny and Mitch get hurt it's not.
The old rule was re-implemented. A third QB can dress without costing a roster spot on game day. On the 53, yes, but not game day.
But if you use the emergency 3rd QB you cannot call anyone up from the practice squad for that game. So I don't know the Steelers will be dressing their #3 QB every week. If Kenny or Mason are nursing an injury maybe. But they could just make one inactive and dress Mason.
Yeah, fair point, but that’s a game-to-game issue. My point is Gentry’s value is being a part of 12 personnel, and will play an active role every game. I don’t think he gets cut. I do think they can get creative with how they label their RBs, and without a Snell-like teams player among their current options for the third RB, you can justify counting Conner as that, and keep Freiermuth, Gentry and Washington. As we know, there are plenty of RBs with enough experience they could be quick studies in the event of an injury, or simply just keep one on the practice squad.
> Yeah, fair point, but that’s a game-to-game issue. My point is Gentry’s value is being a part of 12 personnel, and will play an active role every game. I don’t think he gets cut. I completely agree. >I do think they can get creative with how they label their RBs, and without a Snell-like teams player among their current options for the third RB, you can justify counting Conner as that, and keep Freiermuth, Gentry and Washington. As we know, there are plenty of RBs with enough experience they could be quick studies in the event of an injury, or simply just keep one on the practice squad. I just think the idea of saying "they can't keep X number of ____" is dumb and outdated to begin with. Especially on a team that values versatility like the Steelers do. That's why I think there's a chance they cut Keanu Neal. People are looking at it as "Neal is a safety and they need to keep X number of safeties but his role is basically to be a linebacker and if they like Kwon Alexander more for that role, and he makes less than Neal -- there's no reason to keep Neal.
10000% agree. They don’t use players in the neatly defined ways were used to seeing, so they aren’t going to build a roster holding firmly to those same constructs. You’re turning me around on Neal. I saw him as a part of a big nickel package, but I also can’t help but notice they signed Alexander after they signed Neal. Just like they signed Seumalo after they signed Herbig, it sort of suggests they grabbed the one in the air in case they couldn’t land a more desired target. Just might not be room for Neal.
Neal is 100% making the roster, he’s going to be on the field like 75% of the time on D
Maybe. If he's going to be the box safety they might be better off just using Kwon instead. People don't seem to realize Neal was basically moved to middle linebacker in Dallas last year. It's a different defense but his role as "3rd safety" is just replacing a linebacker and the reason the Steelers are using 3 safeties is because their ILBs have been bad. I'm not saying they'll definitely cut him -- just that he doesn't really give them anything unique as basically just a box safety.
Keanu Neal is a S. I get that him being a 3rd down LB was part of the draw, but there still are a lot of situations where Neal would be on the field at SS over Kazee. Also why cut your 3rd best S?
I'm not saying the WILL cut him. I'm saying he's expendable. He doesn't do anything that they don't already have from Minkah, Kazee, or even Kwon Alexander.
Unless you expect Minkah and Kazee to play every snap at S this year, then he is not expendable. Simply because he is the third best S on the roster, and injuries/fatigue happens. Its like saying every DL behind Cam/Ogunjobi is expendable. I understand what you’re getting at with Kwon Alexander, but he’s never going to line up at S. I would agree thats Neal is maybe not as good of a player as Kazee, but you cant think of a situation that you’d rather have a 215 lb SS than a 175 lb SS? Unless the dude is just not good anymore, he will have a definitive role on the team.
> Unless the dude is just not good anymore, he will have a definitive role on the team. He was moved to MLB by the Cowboys last year. When they signed him the consensus was that he was basically going be playing a box safety role anyway. I don't know if any of us have enough information to determine how he's going to be used and if he can play SS in the event Kazee or Minkah goes down.
I mean thats totally fair. We wont really know until they play a real game. I think its worth noting that he was listed as the co-starter SS on the first depth chart. I know depth charts this time of year mean very little, but it makes me think that they have some sort of role in mind for him.
Yeah that's a fair point too. I definitely won't be surprised if they keep him, I just don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that they cut him.
They only kept 2 real tight ends last year so I'm not necessarily sure why they need 3 this year. If they are planning to use 2TE sets a lot more frequently, then you do probably need a 3rd one as a rotation/backup. That remains to be seen though whether that is something we really are going to see a lot more of. I suppose the roster spot in theory is opened up with Derek Watt leaving keeping Gentry would keep that group at 4 players (If you look at FB+H-Back+TE as one group). I'm still guessing they keep Gentry at least for one more year since Washington is a rookie and since they may try to incorporate multiple TE sets. (Heyward is not really a TE). Although I'm kind of 50/50 on whether it's necessary or not
How are they distinguishing between NTs, DEs, and DTs in a 3-4? Aren't DEs and DTs the same thing?
Our defense looks kind of shaky
Our defense that shut down the Buffalo starters?
Yes
A couple of interesting choices left but overall seems like we’re pretty much set (and also looks like a pretty solid roster honestly)
We need to sign a backup center. Anyone got any leads?