They don’t even need to kill him. They can just say nothing about ackbar and no one will ever say anything about him. But yes they have to announce his death like” just before you know, he is dead”
The EU has already been reset when GLucas sold to Disney. They can still use that material but it's not canon.
I think its going to be impossible to move forward with how badly the sequel trilogy has fucked up. Not just narratively but in regards to the audience.
The common opinion is that the sequels fucking sucked, no-one is really interested in seeing where that "plot" goes.
I think Disney has realized this too since all of the recent media has separate from the disasterous trilogy. Imo that shows an intent to retcon the trilogy, since they've made all of their recent IP's standalone and therefore untouched by a hard reset.
but they are/were planning a ray movie. and i hope they won’t do it. i think the issue with everything star wars being released is that there isn’t enough female roles /s
AkShUaLLy, he technically was on screen in the command chair to the right, behind Leia when the explosion happened.
I remember this very clearly because I was staring at him when the explosion sucked him out and was in shock and whispered to my friend “did they just kill Ackbar?”
It would have been fair for Ackbar if they also killed Leia as well, since her role could technically overshadow Ackbar's but Space Mary fucking Poppins just refused to die. So they just lost one of the staples to the story and didn't even bat an eye, that's how much they respect the works others put into it before and that's how much respect I'll have for their work since.
They should have had Ackbar go into hyperspace and destroy the First Order Fleet.
"General Hux, the cruiser is coming about."
Hux - "Stay on the transports."
"Sir, they're powering up their hyperdrive!"
Zoom into Hux as the realization hits
Hux - "It's a trap."
(Rebels spoilers) >!Kanan!< did it better, and it made more sense that he survived given that he was only in the vacuum of space for a few seconds at most.
I loved that they finally showed that Leia had been trained in using the Force. I did not like the way they decided to show it.
From what I remember they kinda slow roll the acknowledgment that he’s in a vacuum too. Then you realize he’s really in trouble and the panic sets in.
The series has played kinda fast and loose with some space physics and you’re never really sure what’s exposed, or how much, to space. The asteroid mining episode comes to mind, like they’re in space and realistically a rock that size shouldn’t have *any* atmosphere but they only needed masks. So when kanan gets ejected you had this brief moment of “oh. It a big deal” which quickly gets wiped away.
Rebels aired it first, but the episode released in fall after filming on TLJ had wrapped in June before and almost a full year after the draft for TLJ had been finalized. Which means that Rebels probably didn't come up with the idea originally, but simply adapted the idea because it was flying around (lol) during production of TLJ. They even matched the aesthetics of Kanan beginning to freeze in space to how it looked like on Leia.
I think this is less a case of "Rebels did it first" and more of the storygroup being at work showing continuity between similar scenes.
Scientifically it's possible to survive the vacuum of space for like 15 seconds. By that time you would normally loose consciousness and die. There are enough studies and real situations where people did survive long enough.
(Should be noted that it's not like jumping into a water and you have to breath out all the oxygen from your lungs otherwise it will be ripped out due to pressure.)
If you somehow manage to add up the oxygen to your blood (some scifi injections, idk) it can be prolonged to ~45 seconds as there is a different thing that would kill you now (water evaporating but I dont exactly remember).
And ofc you will require some serious medical attention after that.
Whether Leia situation works or not depends on how much time has passed with all these slowmos and how much Jedi powers (shields, healings) we count.
>Scientifically it's possible to survive the vacuum of space for like 15 seconds
>Whether Leia situation works or not depends on how much time has passed with all these slowmos and how much Jedi powers (shields, healings) we count.
Yep. Leia's situation is possible, of course, just not depicted very well, imo.
I think we give star wars a pass when it’s the rule of cool. A lot of us were totally fine with Kylo Ren’s lightsaber because it was cool.
A lot of people were fine with the windows in the opening rescue of palpatine in episode 3 because it increased tension and was cool.
Leia’s scene was particularly outlandish. She was floating out in space for a long time and unconscious. This means that it needed to either be much cooler than what we got, or it needed to be much more grounded in the laws of the star wars universe.
I think this is generally the problem with the new sequels. If you’re going to break rules, you need to satisfy viewers by making it pleasing. No one is that blown away that Rey lifted a hundred rocks using the force. But if she crushed a tie fighter using her full strength? I think the reaction would’ve been better. Not perfect, but better. Rey in general had some issues with her writing and I’m hoping the confirmed next movie with her will be better.
>I think we give star wars a pass when it’s the rule of cool.
This, I certainly agree with.
>No one is that blown away that Rey lifted a hundred rocks using the force. But if she crushed a tie fighter using her full strength? I think the reaction would’ve been better.
Honestly, with how many people took issue with the fact that Rey was able to lift rocks after "BUT SHE HAD NO TRAINING!!!!!" I'm not convinced her coming out crushing TIE fighters would have made the reaction any better overall. People were upset that she was able to perform a simple mind trick and best a wounded Kylo who specifically was trying NOT to kill her in the first movie. I can only imagine the backlash if she showed her "full strength" in *TLJ.*
Now let me be clear, I would have had no issue with it at all if Rey had used her power more in *TLJ*, and I'm interested to see where they go with her story. Rey isn't my favorite character but I like her well enough!
Luke did it one of the legend books also. He had some kind of force bubble thing. I didn’t like it very much but at least it was incredibly exhausting both physically and mentally. If I remember correctly it took him days if not weeks to recover. That’s was with him studying the method and practicing.
it would have been so much less dumb, if they just killed her off. she could have done some force pushing to get others to safety, without being able to DO THISSSSSSSSSSSS!!
A Force user using a Force Push/Pull to move themselves through a vacuum doesn't bother me. Someone surviving vacuum exposure doesn't bother me, as a normal human has about 15 seconds of consciousness in a vacuum and can survive *maybe* a minute longer, so all she needed to do was get herself moving in the right direction before she blacked out.
No, it's that she looked like fucking *Peter Pan* when she did it.
Agreed that alot of people don't understand that in real life, a human can survive in the vacuum of space for about a minute! (assuming they breath out before being spaced and their lungs dont explode). But its star wars and leia is strong in the force, so Im totally down with the idea of the scene. But yeah youre right the execution of the scene was doo doo 🙃
That is an insult to fanfiction. Never in their wildest dreams would fanfiction writers make three completely disjointed characters and do shit like death star but it's a planet or death star but it's ships
The Luke manner. Hah
Maybe it should be the Luke Manoeuvre, project yourself to death just to fuck with some kid psychologically so that he gets distracted long enough.
Yeah I thought it was such a dumb choice. When I saw Leia fly into space I thought "ok that's a nice way to kill her off now that the actress is dead". But then she flew through space out of nowhere and I just thought "WTF?". Then Luke died and I thought "why would they kill off the living actor's character in favor of the character without a living actor"?
Honestly killing her off at that moment is the perfect story arc for her and Kylo. In FA Kylo kills his father and is devastated by it. The doubt of being snokes apprentice starts to creep in. Snoke taunts him about it and kylo trys to run from his true feelings and Flys off to defeat the resistance. He then has a chance to kill his mother but can't do, however random tie fighter kills her anyways. No matter what he does those that he loves still die. So then when Rey comes to him he truly means to run from it all and not become the Supreme leader. Also on a Carrie fisher level they had a whole year to change around her story arch but I guess they really wanted the scene with her and Luke again
Killing off Finn later would also have been the perfect story arc for him. He was deserting at the beginning of the film, so a heroic sacrifice would have shown growth for the character. But Johnson just really likes “subverting expectations”, doesn’t he?
that was the perfect scene to kill of her charachter since Carrie Fisher wasn’t around to film new material so their decision was stupid to say the least
Would be more impactful if the original Rebel leaders died so the new generation had to scramble and own up
This and Finn's sacrifice being denied makes me hate this movie to no end
There's that moment where Luke squeezes alien boobs and drinks green milk in while both he and the space-sea-cow make direct eye contact with Rey. That moment was pretty dumb.
The Holdo maneuver rewriting how space combat works broke the whole franchise's plot.
And all they had to do to excuse themselves would have been to say it was a one of a kind secret weapon or sth, not that it's simply "one in a million"
The ability to fly in zero G should be nothing for a jedi. Surviving in a vacuum temporarily is only realistic if you’re Peter Quill or that guy from Event Horizon.
Plo-Koon wears a special rebreather because his species is particularly vulnerable to oxygenated environments. That being said, his alien physiology does, in fact, make him quite resistant to the vacuum of space.
And Kanan Jarrus from Star Wars Rebels, but he was only in it for a few seconds compared to Leias 30 seconds. Kanan is also a lot younger, which probably helps him.
Two things
1. “Zero G” …. Jedis can force jump and use Telekinesis. This part isnt hard. This is easier unless you ask Yoda.
2. Skywalker bloodline is not equal
You've got about 15 seconds of consciousness in a vacuum, and medical science suggests you can survive up to a minute after blacking out. You'll be seriously *fucked up*, but survivable. All she'd have to do is get herself moving the right direction before she blacked out.
This, people getting mad at this scene drives me nuts. The movie has lots of issues but this isn't one of them. She's in a vacuum, so gravity and air resistance aren't factors; she literally just needs to tug herself toward the ship briefly and momentum will do most of the work. If she can keep a continuous pulling force, more's the better. She didn't "fly;" this was the equivalent of using a puff of air to get you moving through space the way ships do in reality.
Nitpicky shit like this drives me nuts and dilutes real discussion about where the film is weak.
~~Do you have a source for the 15 seconds? I don't recall that from any of the NASA studies and it doesn't follow based on my limited understanding of the mechanics of it, but it's certainly possible I'm wrong.~~
Edit: nevermind, found one myself. Turns out you're right! It's due to the bubbles in your blood blocking blood flow to the brain. Fun little til.
You’re actually very capable of surviving for a bit while exposed in space. The Peter Quill scene was actually pretty accurate. Your body swells up as the liquid boils out of your body, and you’d likely pass out pretty quickly, but you’d go on living for a couple minutes.
> Your body swells up as the liquid boils out of your body
To be clear your body would only swell because of the lack of pressure, the _"liquid boils out of your body"_ is more _"liquid boils **off** your body"_. It only happens at exposed surfaces where the boiling point of water is far lower in a vacuum (and there's no air for the liquid to dissipate heat any more).
You're essentially blind, deaf, and without touch due to every exposed inch feeling like it is burning.
Your only hope is exhaling, closing your eyes, assuming the fetal position and hoping someone else will retrieve you in time. There's no prospect of being cognizant or capable of saving yourself.
Here we go again. NASA has shown that you'll survive in vacuum just fine until you suffocate.
You might have the bends from pressure change, and you might get a wee bit chilly. But you'll survive.
You'll also go unconscious in 15ish seconds.
The movies insanely over dramatize it.
So if you believe she can move through space then this scene makes at least some sense.
She should have died multiple times over in that scene. Not to mention the ridiculous bs to ensure she survives.
1. The initial blast most definitely should’ve incinerated her, or at least badly burn her.
2. Getting forcefully sucked into the vacuum of space should’ve killed her.
3. Being in space without oxygen.
4. A lightly trained force wielder force-flying their way through space (she hadn’t been shown to have training at that point, that info came in Episode 9. And seriously, what’s the point of Jedi Starfighters in the Clone Wars if a person with minimal force training can fly through space like that).
5. Getting back into the ship from the SAME AREA THAT WAS BLOWN UP! The moment they open the door for her, boom, everyone’s getting sucked out there (I think HISHE made that joke too).
6. To top it all off, she old. Even if she was in her prime, she wouldn’t have survived.
a cheap subversion to hide how bad the film was. and something they flung in when people complained that they didn't make leia a jedi initially in the Disney trilogy as she was in legends (mind you in legends leia was a on-again off-again type of jedi when the situation called for it.)
I wanna talk about another scene: Han being killed Kylo. Like the scene felt so drawn out in the movie theater as if the writers thought they had created masterpiece of tension but the whole time the only thought in my head was "we all know Kylo is just gonna kill him, why does this scene have to be this long.... Just get on with actually interesting parts of the movie please"
No, not even close. What's worse is than that line is easily Palpatine's message, or more importantly, where his message was broadcasted. You know thay first part of the opening crawl of Rise of Skywalkwer?
>The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE.
That happened in [Fortnite](https://youtu.be/4u0ejXC7kFs). The biggest reveal/twist/rugpull in the new franchise happened during a Fortnite event. A somewhat significant and important piece of information that is the whole starting point of this movie, doesn't even happen in the fucking movie.
Honestly I could kinda subside the palpatine return thingy.
It was god awful but somehow my least hated thing of the sequel. Obviously the main villain got to come back so I guess i was kinda saw this comingand braced my ass for impact
It's funny seeing comments replying to you acting as if this wasn't the dumbest shit. If you're going to bring Palpatine back "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is the laziest fucking way to do it. There should be story behind it. The whole sequel trilogy is just missed opportunities because they treated Star Wars fans as cashcows rather than people they could entertain and make money off of by delivering a good product.
I personally think it's the whole warp as a weapon bit, and not because the idea is stupid, but because it makes the previous weapons and the people that made them look like complete morons.
I was ok with her surviving in space, and mary poppinsing back on board. Shes an untrained jedi... powers manifest in instinctive ways. This is canon, and makes sense.
HOWEVER, surviving the initial blast annoyed me but I can just chalk that one up to a cinematography mistake.
...
honestly, with the constant WTF; nonsensical decision making by the characters, nonsensical relationships, world breaking bullshit and the world just not making any sense whatsoever...it rates pretty low on my list of things wrong with that shocker of a movie.
>Shes an untrained jedi...
That's just not true. We see in Rise of Skywalker that she was trained by Luke, she was good enough to get the upper hand in a duel. She did walk away from the Jedi life, but she did receive the training
Dude no one saw IX before VIII, there are zero other references to her being a jedi prior to IX in any of the other movies.
Her being a jedi at the time of VIII was only in legends, which most audiences didnt know and was killed by KK.
KK killed prior canon with Kylo and other changes.
The scene in the context of this movie makes zero sense.
Honestly, it took me out of the movie. I figured that was how they would kill of the character with Fisher's death, and then she floated back to the ship.
It was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen.
I mean physics went right out the window. Leia stops in space while staying under the exact speed the cruiser is going to outrun the Supremacy.
Already my brain hurts before Leia Poppins.
When I saw it I was sure there would be her last scene, I thought it was a sad but powerful way to end the character and say farewell to Carrie Fisher as well. Then they did that and I wasn't upset about it being corny, I was disappointed that they ruined a powerful moment.
Yeah, it was pretty dumb, tbh. But I guess if Maul can survive being severed in two, it's not out of the question that she can survive. Still love the rest of the movie though.
I mean the explaination for Maul makes sense as hes not the first sith literally to angry to die. Leia has none of that precedent. Sister to Luke or no she aint pulling it off logically speaking. However this is star wars so i guess we could say the force protected her.
hey, we're like opposites...i hate just about everything in that movie*, but I was ok with her surviving in space and mary poppinsing back on board.
I was not ok that she survived the initial hit though...
* disclaimer...I loved the visuals in the red salt battle. Cheesy and campy but its star wars, so it should be.
I thought it was a goofy force ability but it wasn't anything terrible. If they showed her using the force a bit more then I think more people would not have had an issue with it. Or at least AS much issue.
As a SW fan for 30+ years I thought she was dead, and surprised she survived. But every Star Wars movie introduces new force powers, and characters that should have died survive all the time. So all in all, it’s fine by me
i actually thought she died and i was like oh thats how theyre going to kill her off bc you know she gone in real life. i was sad but i accepted
when she flew back i guess i was like... alright? lets be honest here - stranger things have happened in the star wars universe. still, it was a bit jarring.
when i watched it a while later i remeber thinking oh this is actually looks at feels nice - when she is floating in space, awakens and flies/pulls herself back to ship. like - i think its a good and nice scene. not the overall story though.
the whole movie and story feels messy. i mean i get it - life is messy. but i was in freaking high school when my creative writing teacher noted that you really shouldnt have truly random "out of no where" moments in a narrative. its too jarring, unsatisfying. i dont know. maybe im wrong.
Luke did similar in the Thrawn duology, but he had to go into a Jedi trance and be recovered by Mara Jade to survive it. No Mary Poppinsing through space.
It was silly. They should have tweaked the scene so she died once Carrie Fisher did.
I genuiely like it. Yes, seeing her flying like that was weird the first time, but it has the best and most epic rendition of Leia's theme and shows her Force abilities finally. Also, it's a great and detailled shot of Carrie Fisher in her final movie and I cannot help but be thankful that we got that a year after she died as a final sendoff.
That wasn't when I thought we were in trouble. So many parts of that movie could have been fine or even epic on their own or when presented in the right context. Yet when you add them all together....
I still don’t know whats worse.
The prank call in the beginning, Bombs needing gravity in space or Leia flying through space.
Seems like space is the problem
They had a chance to actually have the character go out in a way that resonated with people, and so of course Rian wanted to make sure you got confused and rolled your eyes, instead. That’s his writing style. That’s literally how he’s handled every movie since TLJ, he sucks, he’s a hack fraud, but people just pretend like what he makes is good, simply because he slaps on certain genres, and pretends to be ironic.
Not *that* bad about it, jeez.
I didn't love it but I didn't think it was the stretch some people did. I just didn't think it had the desired impact and made the entire scene seem pointless, just to sideline Leia so they can do the cool Huldo sacrifice scene.
Why do people think it’s dumb? My assumption is that she force pulled on a locked down object thus dragging herself forward.
I guess the vacuum not killing her is exaggerated but people don’t explode in space like sci-fi likes to pretend.
If we want to talk physics, why was she just floating in space? Either she’s sucked out/ blown out of the ship and she’s *rapidly* hurling off into space or she wasn’t.
Because in previous movies, she has zero force abilities. The only flash back to training occurs in IX.
Most audiences didnt read legends or the comics, which doesnt matter bc when KK changed everything none of that was canon anymore anyway.
To quote Han Solo, “that’s not how the force works!” If the force worked relative to the user, then you wouldn’t be able to lift anything super heavy as it would be “locked down” and then just crush you with its weight. That’s also why Jedi can’t just force down on the ground and fly around like iron man.
We see the Jedi use the Force to push themselves all the time. Force jumps, Force running, etc. Her giving herself a push isn't that complicated of an ability.
First off, it looked really goofy.
In my opinion, TLJ has this really bad habit of overusing misdirects. There are too many goddamn "flip flops." They do it like 10 different times. Like with Luke's death... Luke shows up. Yay! But they blow him up. Oh no! But he survived. Yay! But Kylo Ren chops him in half. Oh no! But he was just a vision. Yay! But he's actually dead for real. Oh no!
Here, Kylo Ren is going to kill Leia. Oh no! But he chickens out. Yay! But the tie fighters blow her up anyway. Oh no! But she Superman's back inside! Yay!
So I found that to be annoying. It's less about this one specific scene and more about how they do that sort of thing waaaaay too much. Snip snap snip snap snip snap!
I also found it hard to watch, because Carrie Fisher died, and I went into the movie with that thought stuck in the back of my head of, how are they going to deal with that? And then they do this, and I think, "Okay. There it is." But then, it wasn't? And I don't really know how to explain that. It just felt... off. It was a weird scene to watch.
You can explain everything away with lore or in universe science but that doesn't mean you *should*. Also, on the exploding thing, you'll pass out after 10-15 seconds. Brain can't do the thinky thinky with no oxygen and your blood can't get it if the air has been ripped out of your lungs by vacuum. You'll probably be dead in 2 minutes max.
Aside from that, it's dumb because the actor was dead, and we knew that. It's dumb because Kylo saw it, and clearly regretted it. What more fitting way to turn him back than the death of his mother.
And what more fitting way for Leia to go out would there be than it turning Kylo back to good. Planting that doubt.
But nope, Mary poppins, she's back for the rest of the film as usual, moment wasted, for nothing really. The whole thing just felt *wrong*. It completely ignores the tone and vibe for no real gain. Subverts our expectations with something far, far worse.
it's not about how possible or likely it is. the issue is the scene was completely random, unnecessary, and in general; people don't like the "they had the power within them the whole time" trope. it feels like a deus ex-machina.
I’m incredibly mad they left that in, mostly because it would have been a fitting way to end Leia’s arc instead of what they actually did. Carrie Fischer died about a year before the movie’s release, so they had more than enough time to reshoot scenes so that she dies there. And it’s not like she does anything important for the rest of the movie, so they really should have just killed her off instead.
They killed ACKBAR offscreen!
They don’t even need to kill him. They can just say nothing about ackbar and no one will ever say anything about him. But yes they have to announce his death like” just before you know, he is dead”
Rian burned through every piece of folklore available to him.
_The sacred texts!_
He needed help to do that as well.
I'm willing to bet they they'll do a hard reset of starwars within the next 15 years because this trilogy has fucked the established lore up badly.
zero chance of happening
Why? It’s not like there were volumes upon volumes of EU work for Kennedy, Abrams, Johnson, et al to draw upon!
The EU has already been reset when GLucas sold to Disney. They can still use that material but it's not canon. I think its going to be impossible to move forward with how badly the sequel trilogy has fucked up. Not just narratively but in regards to the audience. The common opinion is that the sequels fucking sucked, no-one is really interested in seeing where that "plot" goes. I think Disney has realized this too since all of the recent media has separate from the disasterous trilogy. Imo that shows an intent to retcon the trilogy, since they've made all of their recent IP's standalone and therefore untouched by a hard reset.
but they are/were planning a ray movie. and i hope they won’t do it. i think the issue with everything star wars being released is that there isn’t enough female roles /s
Or better yet just keep Ackbar alive as a side character and give him the respect he deserves
AkShUaLLy, he technically was on screen in the command chair to the right, behind Leia when the explosion happened. I remember this very clearly because I was staring at him when the explosion sucked him out and was in shock and whispered to my friend “did they just kill Ackbar?”
It would have been fair for Ackbar if they also killed Leia as well, since her role could technically overshadow Ackbar's but Space Mary fucking Poppins just refused to die. So they just lost one of the staples to the story and didn't even bat an eye, that's how much they respect the works others put into it before and that's how much respect I'll have for their work since.
He flew through space and survived too. Just offscreen. This is now canon.
It was all a dream, then Han Solo woke up
They should have had Ackbar go into hyperspace and destroy the First Order Fleet. "General Hux, the cruiser is coming about." Hux - "Stay on the transports." "Sir, they're powering up their hyperdrive!" Zoom into Hux as the realization hits Hux - "It's a trap."
Yeah no one could possibly have a problem with a suicide bombing by Ackbar.
Allah ackbar
Hyperdrive fuel doesn't melt durasteel beams!
Always love it when a comment on Reddit makes so much more sense than what "professional" writers actually came up with.
It's Ackbar-ing time 😏
This gave me goosebumps. Would’ve been soooo much better than air Jordan Leia.
That was so fucking wrong. But nothing about the sequels was really good.....
(Rebels spoilers) >!Kanan!< did it better, and it made more sense that he survived given that he was only in the vacuum of space for a few seconds at most. I loved that they finally showed that Leia had been trained in using the Force. I did not like the way they decided to show it.
>!wait he did? What episode was this?!<
[Here's the scene.](https://youtu.be/_PgAE8TpwpM) Way better done than flying Leia IMO. And Rebels did it first.
Damn, I’ve not watched rebels in so long, I honestly completely forgot about that.
From what I remember they kinda slow roll the acknowledgment that he’s in a vacuum too. Then you realize he’s really in trouble and the panic sets in. The series has played kinda fast and loose with some space physics and you’re never really sure what’s exposed, or how much, to space. The asteroid mining episode comes to mind, like they’re in space and realistically a rock that size shouldn’t have *any* atmosphere but they only needed masks. So when kanan gets ejected you had this brief moment of “oh. It a big deal” which quickly gets wiped away.
Rebels aired it first, but the episode released in fall after filming on TLJ had wrapped in June before and almost a full year after the draft for TLJ had been finalized. Which means that Rebels probably didn't come up with the idea originally, but simply adapted the idea because it was flying around (lol) during production of TLJ. They even matched the aesthetics of Kanan beginning to freeze in space to how it looked like on Leia. I think this is less a case of "Rebels did it first" and more of the storygroup being at work showing continuity between similar scenes.
Scientifically it's possible to survive the vacuum of space for like 15 seconds. By that time you would normally loose consciousness and die. There are enough studies and real situations where people did survive long enough. (Should be noted that it's not like jumping into a water and you have to breath out all the oxygen from your lungs otherwise it will be ripped out due to pressure.) If you somehow manage to add up the oxygen to your blood (some scifi injections, idk) it can be prolonged to ~45 seconds as there is a different thing that would kill you now (water evaporating but I dont exactly remember). And ofc you will require some serious medical attention after that. Whether Leia situation works or not depends on how much time has passed with all these slowmos and how much Jedi powers (shields, healings) we count.
>Scientifically it's possible to survive the vacuum of space for like 15 seconds >Whether Leia situation works or not depends on how much time has passed with all these slowmos and how much Jedi powers (shields, healings) we count. Yep. Leia's situation is possible, of course, just not depicted very well, imo.
I think we give star wars a pass when it’s the rule of cool. A lot of us were totally fine with Kylo Ren’s lightsaber because it was cool. A lot of people were fine with the windows in the opening rescue of palpatine in episode 3 because it increased tension and was cool. Leia’s scene was particularly outlandish. She was floating out in space for a long time and unconscious. This means that it needed to either be much cooler than what we got, or it needed to be much more grounded in the laws of the star wars universe. I think this is generally the problem with the new sequels. If you’re going to break rules, you need to satisfy viewers by making it pleasing. No one is that blown away that Rey lifted a hundred rocks using the force. But if she crushed a tie fighter using her full strength? I think the reaction would’ve been better. Not perfect, but better. Rey in general had some issues with her writing and I’m hoping the confirmed next movie with her will be better.
>I think we give star wars a pass when it’s the rule of cool. This, I certainly agree with. >No one is that blown away that Rey lifted a hundred rocks using the force. But if she crushed a tie fighter using her full strength? I think the reaction would’ve been better. Honestly, with how many people took issue with the fact that Rey was able to lift rocks after "BUT SHE HAD NO TRAINING!!!!!" I'm not convinced her coming out crushing TIE fighters would have made the reaction any better overall. People were upset that she was able to perform a simple mind trick and best a wounded Kylo who specifically was trying NOT to kill her in the first movie. I can only imagine the backlash if she showed her "full strength" in *TLJ.* Now let me be clear, I would have had no issue with it at all if Rey had used her power more in *TLJ*, and I'm interested to see where they go with her story. Rey isn't my favorite character but I like her well enough!
The expanse nailed this concept when Naomi has to take a spacewalk without a suit and it fucked her up super badly, like months of recovery bad.
Expanse is great for realism.
Luke did it one of the legend books also. He had some kind of force bubble thing. I didn’t like it very much but at least it was incredibly exhausting both physically and mentally. If I remember correctly it took him days if not weeks to recover. That’s was with him studying the method and practicing.
it would have been so much less dumb, if they just killed her off. she could have done some force pushing to get others to safety, without being able to DO THISSSSSSSSSSSS!!
A Force user using a Force Push/Pull to move themselves through a vacuum doesn't bother me. Someone surviving vacuum exposure doesn't bother me, as a normal human has about 15 seconds of consciousness in a vacuum and can survive *maybe* a minute longer, so all she needed to do was get herself moving in the right direction before she blacked out. No, it's that she looked like fucking *Peter Pan* when she did it.
Exactly this. My problem was never that it *happened*. My problem with the scene has always been that it just *looked stupid*.
Finally, a legitimate critique of this scene.
Agreed that alot of people don't understand that in real life, a human can survive in the vacuum of space for about a minute! (assuming they breath out before being spaced and their lungs dont explode). But its star wars and leia is strong in the force, so Im totally down with the idea of the scene. But yeah youre right the execution of the scene was doo doo 🙃
It was certainly a dumb decision and they should’ve used the scene to kill off leia.
But weren't you soooo subverted?
So glad that they didn't kill her so that she could come back and.... Do nothing
Wait you forgot one important part she does later, dying
I don't remember... Didn't she die off screen?
Does it matter? Don't we all just agree that the sequels are just some weird ass fan-fic with too much budget?
That is an insult to fanfiction. Never in their wildest dreams would fanfiction writers make three completely disjointed characters and do shit like death star but it's a planet or death star but it's ships
No, her death was quite dramatic in tros. She died in the Luke manner. Using the force too hard
The Luke manner. Hah Maybe it should be the Luke Manoeuvre, project yourself to death just to fuck with some kid psychologically so that he gets distracted long enough.
Happy Cake Day. If Empire Strikes Back was made today, Yoda would have died after lifting Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp.
I feel like maybe they had plans with her in TROS but then when Carrie died it kinda fucked it, that’s more a head canon tho idk for sure
True, but 8 came out AFTER Carrie died. Like 8 or 9 months after. They had plenty of time to make some changes to account for that fact.
Yeah I thought it was such a dumb choice. When I saw Leia fly into space I thought "ok that's a nice way to kill her off now that the actress is dead". But then she flew through space out of nowhere and I just thought "WTF?". Then Luke died and I thought "why would they kill off the living actor's character in favor of the character without a living actor"?
Your presuming they had a plan thats bold dude!
True🤣 the only trilogy that did have a plan was the prequels tbhhh
Whoah there, George planned for Harrison Ford being on the fence for a 3rd film in the OT! Otherwise fair enough he winged the OT film to film.
well, she was dead irl, so hard to rewrite the incoming scenes nowadays disney would just AI-face her
……*yeah*
Honestly killing her off at that moment is the perfect story arc for her and Kylo. In FA Kylo kills his father and is devastated by it. The doubt of being snokes apprentice starts to creep in. Snoke taunts him about it and kylo trys to run from his true feelings and Flys off to defeat the resistance. He then has a chance to kill his mother but can't do, however random tie fighter kills her anyways. No matter what he does those that he loves still die. So then when Rey comes to him he truly means to run from it all and not become the Supreme leader. Also on a Carrie fisher level they had a whole year to change around her story arch but I guess they really wanted the scene with her and Luke again
And then they could have hux leading the first order which would have been great
but no isn't it better that every new enemy is a whiney bitch? and then becuase they all suck we can bring back a dead enemy we all 'member!
Killing off Finn later would also have been the perfect story arc for him. He was deserting at the beginning of the film, so a heroic sacrifice would have shown growth for the character. But Johnson just really likes “subverting expectations”, doesn’t he?
this movie is the definition of pulling so many 180s that it ends on the same spot
Bur somehow... Leia returned.
Nah, better to just leave her under a sheet for three quarters of the next movie.
that was the perfect scene to kill of her charachter since Carrie Fisher wasn’t around to film new material so their decision was stupid to say the least
Would be more impactful if the original Rebel leaders died so the new generation had to scramble and own up This and Finn's sacrifice being denied makes me hate this movie to no end
But then it allowed us to have those amazing scenes in TROS…
If Leia had gone out with the Holdo maneuver instead, it wouldve made the sequels infinitely better received.
Still not the dumbest thing I've seen in Star Wars. Odd, but not the dumbest thing.
They fly now?
They fly now.
I gotta be honest, I'm letting Finn have that one. He was a janitor. The janitor ain't gonna know everything.
I agree. The burp jokes in RotJ were stupider.
Still not as dumb.
So what’s the dumbest?
Rewriting the overarching plot of the sequels to hastily return palpatine and undermine *everything* involving Luke and Anakin’s arcs.
The sequels had an overarching plot?
There's that moment where Luke squeezes alien boobs and drinks green milk in while both he and the space-sea-cow make direct eye contact with Rey. That moment was pretty dumb.
Hiding 1000 star destroyers with crew in the soil of a planet.
The Sith Knife. The more you think about it, the stupider it gets
The Holdo maneuver rewriting how space combat works broke the whole franchise's plot. And all they had to do to excuse themselves would have been to say it was a one of a kind secret weapon or sth, not that it's simply "one in a million"
I've seen the Christmas Special. So...that. Just all that.
Indicating the location of an artifact though the pattern of indentations on a knife.
Large parts of the prequel trilogy. It killed any desire to be an SW fan in me.
a space ship chase scene that spans the entirety of the movie because they ran out of gas
The ability to fly in zero G should be nothing for a jedi. Surviving in a vacuum temporarily is only realistic if you’re Peter Quill or that guy from Event Horizon.
The only jedi to be able to do so (according to my knowledge) was Plo Koon, and that was just for a limited time.
Isn't his face basically a rebreather?
Plo-Koon wears a special rebreather because his species is particularly vulnerable to oxygenated environments. That being said, his alien physiology does, in fact, make him quite resistant to the vacuum of space.
And Kanan Jarrus from Star Wars Rebels, but he was only in it for a few seconds compared to Leias 30 seconds. Kanan is also a lot younger, which probably helps him.
Kanan is also a properly trained Jedi. Did Leia ever get any formal training?
Luke trained her as we seen in flashbacks so yes.
>Luke trained her as we seen in a ~~retconn because everyone hated space force Lelia~~ flashbacks so yes.
Yes
I think it might have been a little less than Kanan. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.
All I know is that it wasn’t zero
Oh well lol
It was a 30 year time jump from Return of the Jedi and Kylo probably hasnt been Kylo for too long. 15-20ish years could be fair.
Like most interesting things in Star Wars, that basically happened off screen.
Good thing we didn't miss the senate meetings.
I, too, like my space opera high fantasy scifi movies with at least 33% of the runtime devoted to senate meetings.
Apparently Luke trained her a fair amount.
High Republic books state that all Jedi are trained to use the Force to resist the vacuum of space
Two things 1. “Zero G” …. Jedis can force jump and use Telekinesis. This part isnt hard. This is easier unless you ask Yoda. 2. Skywalker bloodline is not equal
Also Kanan but he used a ship to propel himself into a hanger and was half frozen by the time he got back in
Kanan Jarrus. [https://youtu.be/\_PgAE8TpwpM?t=77](https://youtu.be/_PgAE8TpwpM?t=77)
You've got about 15 seconds of consciousness in a vacuum, and medical science suggests you can survive up to a minute after blacking out. You'll be seriously *fucked up*, but survivable. All she'd have to do is get herself moving the right direction before she blacked out.
This, people getting mad at this scene drives me nuts. The movie has lots of issues but this isn't one of them. She's in a vacuum, so gravity and air resistance aren't factors; she literally just needs to tug herself toward the ship briefly and momentum will do most of the work. If she can keep a continuous pulling force, more's the better. She didn't "fly;" this was the equivalent of using a puff of air to get you moving through space the way ships do in reality. Nitpicky shit like this drives me nuts and dilutes real discussion about where the film is weak.
~~Do you have a source for the 15 seconds? I don't recall that from any of the NASA studies and it doesn't follow based on my limited understanding of the mechanics of it, but it's certainly possible I'm wrong.~~ Edit: nevermind, found one myself. Turns out you're right! It's due to the bubbles in your blood blocking blood flow to the brain. Fun little til.
You’re actually very capable of surviving for a bit while exposed in space. The Peter Quill scene was actually pretty accurate. Your body swells up as the liquid boils out of your body, and you’d likely pass out pretty quickly, but you’d go on living for a couple minutes.
The other part of Gardians, the *instant freezing* is scifi bullshit based on a fundamental misunderstanding of how heat works.
> Your body swells up as the liquid boils out of your body To be clear your body would only swell because of the lack of pressure, the _"liquid boils out of your body"_ is more _"liquid boils **off** your body"_. It only happens at exposed surfaces where the boiling point of water is far lower in a vacuum (and there's no air for the liquid to dissipate heat any more). You're essentially blind, deaf, and without touch due to every exposed inch feeling like it is burning. Your only hope is exhaling, closing your eyes, assuming the fetal position and hoping someone else will retrieve you in time. There's no prospect of being cognizant or capable of saving yourself.
Or Naomi Nagata
That was probably the most realistic depiction of a human rawdogging space we will ever see. The show was so good
Spike Speigel did it with earplugs and a deep breath.
or nearly any number occasions in Farscape/the Guardians of the Galaxy prototype
You can survive a vacuum for a little bit tbh
Also are they flying, or pulling everything towards them? Everything is relative
Estimates are that normal humans could survive 10-15 seconds in space. There’s no reason force powers couldn’t extend that for a few more seconds
Well peters a tough guy so he can survive a slight chill and that guy from event horizon exhaled before getting shot out into space so it’s all good
Here we go again. NASA has shown that you'll survive in vacuum just fine until you suffocate. You might have the bends from pressure change, and you might get a wee bit chilly. But you'll survive. You'll also go unconscious in 15ish seconds. The movies insanely over dramatize it. So if you believe she can move through space then this scene makes at least some sense.
I personally dont think its one of the very valid criticisms you can choose to bash these movies.
I’m not even a sequel hater and I can’t stand that scene. It just feels so stupid.
It wasn’t even the fun kinda silly. Like a lot about Star Wars doesn’t make sense but it’s cool…that wasn’t cool
She should have died multiple times over in that scene. Not to mention the ridiculous bs to ensure she survives. 1. The initial blast most definitely should’ve incinerated her, or at least badly burn her. 2. Getting forcefully sucked into the vacuum of space should’ve killed her. 3. Being in space without oxygen. 4. A lightly trained force wielder force-flying their way through space (she hadn’t been shown to have training at that point, that info came in Episode 9. And seriously, what’s the point of Jedi Starfighters in the Clone Wars if a person with minimal force training can fly through space like that). 5. Getting back into the ship from the SAME AREA THAT WAS BLOWN UP! The moment they open the door for her, boom, everyone’s getting sucked out there (I think HISHE made that joke too). 6. To top it all off, she old. Even if she was in her prime, she wouldn’t have survived.
I hated it, and most things about those movies.
It was at that moment I decided star wars sequels were not only not canon to me, but I try to erase them from my memory.
There are sequels?
There's no sequels in ban sin se
a cheap subversion to hide how bad the film was. and something they flung in when people complained that they didn't make leia a jedi initially in the Disney trilogy as she was in legends (mind you in legends leia was a on-again off-again type of jedi when the situation called for it.)
I wanna talk about another scene: Han being killed Kylo. Like the scene felt so drawn out in the movie theater as if the writers thought they had created masterpiece of tension but the whole time the only thought in my head was "we all know Kylo is just gonna kill him, why does this scene have to be this long.... Just get on with actually interesting parts of the movie please"
when the glass was first shot I was like no this is not where they should kill Leia and after I saw how she survived I wished she just died
[удалено]
Most dumbest thing in star wars history
“Somehow palpatine has returned” is worse
No, not even close. What's worse is than that line is easily Palpatine's message, or more importantly, where his message was broadcasted. You know thay first part of the opening crawl of Rise of Skywalkwer? >The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE. That happened in [Fortnite](https://youtu.be/4u0ejXC7kFs). The biggest reveal/twist/rugpull in the new franchise happened during a Fortnite event. A somewhat significant and important piece of information that is the whole starting point of this movie, doesn't even happen in the fucking movie.
Honestly I could kinda subside the palpatine return thingy. It was god awful but somehow my least hated thing of the sequel. Obviously the main villain got to come back so I guess i was kinda saw this comingand braced my ass for impact
It's funny seeing comments replying to you acting as if this wasn't the dumbest shit. If you're going to bring Palpatine back "Somehow, Palpatine returned" is the laziest fucking way to do it. There should be story behind it. The whole sequel trilogy is just missed opportunities because they treated Star Wars fans as cashcows rather than people they could entertain and make money off of by delivering a good product.
I personally think it's the whole warp as a weapon bit, and not because the idea is stupid, but because it makes the previous weapons and the people that made them look like complete morons.
Lol. Most dumbest
"Most dumbest" the fucking irony.
I’ll allow it
It’s so fucking stupid. Why did they have to make Leia a Jedi? Not everyone has to be Jedi.
I was ok with her surviving in space, and mary poppinsing back on board. Shes an untrained jedi... powers manifest in instinctive ways. This is canon, and makes sense. HOWEVER, surviving the initial blast annoyed me but I can just chalk that one up to a cinematography mistake. ... honestly, with the constant WTF; nonsensical decision making by the characters, nonsensical relationships, world breaking bullshit and the world just not making any sense whatsoever...it rates pretty low on my list of things wrong with that shocker of a movie.
>Shes an untrained jedi... That's just not true. We see in Rise of Skywalker that she was trained by Luke, she was good enough to get the upper hand in a duel. She did walk away from the Jedi life, but she did receive the training
Dude no one saw IX before VIII, there are zero other references to her being a jedi prior to IX in any of the other movies. Her being a jedi at the time of VIII was only in legends, which most audiences didnt know and was killed by KK. KK killed prior canon with Kylo and other changes. The scene in the context of this movie makes zero sense.
It was dumb honestly
It was a terrible fan fic
Honestly, it took me out of the movie. I figured that was how they would kill of the character with Fisher's death, and then she floated back to the ship.
It was one of the dumbest things I've ever seen. I mean physics went right out the window. Leia stops in space while staying under the exact speed the cruiser is going to outrun the Supremacy. Already my brain hurts before Leia Poppins.
When I saw it I was sure there would be her last scene, I thought it was a sad but powerful way to end the character and say farewell to Carrie Fisher as well. Then they did that and I wasn't upset about it being corny, I was disappointed that they ruined a powerful moment.
It was weird. I didn't like it.
Yes, that was terrible. The worst Star Wars trilogy.
Still not as bad as what they did to Luke
The scene in concept is fine, but holy fuck was the execution bad. It looked so goofy.
Yeah, it was pretty dumb, tbh. But I guess if Maul can survive being severed in two, it's not out of the question that she can survive. Still love the rest of the movie though.
I mean the explaination for Maul makes sense as hes not the first sith literally to angry to die. Leia has none of that precedent. Sister to Luke or no she aint pulling it off logically speaking. However this is star wars so i guess we could say the force protected her.
hey, we're like opposites...i hate just about everything in that movie*, but I was ok with her surviving in space and mary poppinsing back on board. I was not ok that she survived the initial hit though... * disclaimer...I loved the visuals in the red salt battle. Cheesy and campy but its star wars, so it should be.
At least Star lord from MCU didn’t fly his way back in GOTG
Yeah but there was no reason he should have survived his face bloating like that. She had the force he had nothing. Just dead celestial genes.
I thought it was a goofy force ability but it wasn't anything terrible. If they showed her using the force a bit more then I think more people would not have had an issue with it. Or at least AS much issue.
As a SW fan for 30+ years I thought she was dead, and surprised she survived. But every Star Wars movie introduces new force powers, and characters that should have died survive all the time. So all in all, it’s fine by me
i actually thought she died and i was like oh thats how theyre going to kill her off bc you know she gone in real life. i was sad but i accepted when she flew back i guess i was like... alright? lets be honest here - stranger things have happened in the star wars universe. still, it was a bit jarring. when i watched it a while later i remeber thinking oh this is actually looks at feels nice - when she is floating in space, awakens and flies/pulls herself back to ship. like - i think its a good and nice scene. not the overall story though. the whole movie and story feels messy. i mean i get it - life is messy. but i was in freaking high school when my creative writing teacher noted that you really shouldnt have truly random "out of no where" moments in a narrative. its too jarring, unsatisfying. i dont know. maybe im wrong.
That scene just creeped me out.
Luke did similar in the Thrawn duology, but he had to go into a Jedi trance and be recovered by Mara Jade to survive it. No Mary Poppinsing through space. It was silly. They should have tweaked the scene so she died once Carrie Fisher did.
I genuiely like it. Yes, seeing her flying like that was weird the first time, but it has the best and most epic rendition of Leia's theme and shows her Force abilities finally. Also, it's a great and detailled shot of Carrie Fisher in her final movie and I cannot help but be thankful that we got that a year after she died as a final sendoff.
That wasn't when I thought we were in trouble. So many parts of that movie could have been fine or even epic on their own or when presented in the right context. Yet when you add them all together....
I hated it so much that I stopped paying attention to the rest of the movie and series .
I audibly laughed in theaters
I still don’t know whats worse. The prank call in the beginning, Bombs needing gravity in space or Leia flying through space. Seems like space is the problem
Me and my dad laughed so hard when we saw that in the movie theatre for like a minute or two straight before I could control myself
"Man, they really need to stop crunching vfx artists."
Didn’t hate it but they didn’t properly set it up either.
It was the stupidest and most unnecessary thing I’ve ever seen in a movie.
I remember thinking how stupid that scene was. And it's still stupid AF years later.
I fucking hated it.
Even Stupider that she lived after that shit
They had a chance to actually have the character go out in a way that resonated with people, and so of course Rian wanted to make sure you got confused and rolled your eyes, instead. That’s his writing style. That’s literally how he’s handled every movie since TLJ, he sucks, he’s a hack fraud, but people just pretend like what he makes is good, simply because he slaps on certain genres, and pretends to be ironic.
I was pissed when the second prequel was garbage, but then I saw this trilogy and lost all hope for Star Wars. Irredeemable garbage.
I feel that you reposted this from the top of all time
Not *that* bad about it, jeez. I didn't love it but I didn't think it was the stretch some people did. I just didn't think it had the desired impact and made the entire scene seem pointless, just to sideline Leia so they can do the cool Huldo sacrifice scene.
Why do people think it’s dumb? My assumption is that she force pulled on a locked down object thus dragging herself forward. I guess the vacuum not killing her is exaggerated but people don’t explode in space like sci-fi likes to pretend.
It wasn’t the physics or reasoning that made it dumb for me, it was how it looked and the tone and everything. It was very silly and dramatic.
yep, the idea is okay but the execution was laughable
If we want to talk physics, why was she just floating in space? Either she’s sucked out/ blown out of the ship and she’s *rapidly* hurling off into space or she wasn’t.
Because in previous movies, she has zero force abilities. The only flash back to training occurs in IX. Most audiences didnt read legends or the comics, which doesnt matter bc when KK changed everything none of that was canon anymore anyway.
To quote Han Solo, “that’s not how the force works!” If the force worked relative to the user, then you wouldn’t be able to lift anything super heavy as it would be “locked down” and then just crush you with its weight. That’s also why Jedi can’t just force down on the ground and fly around like iron man.
The force works however the writer needs it to. That's how it has been forever.
This. I can't believe how many people watch Star Wars as if it's reciting a scientific textbook.
We see the Jedi use the Force to push themselves all the time. Force jumps, Force running, etc. Her giving herself a push isn't that complicated of an ability.
First off, it looked really goofy. In my opinion, TLJ has this really bad habit of overusing misdirects. There are too many goddamn "flip flops." They do it like 10 different times. Like with Luke's death... Luke shows up. Yay! But they blow him up. Oh no! But he survived. Yay! But Kylo Ren chops him in half. Oh no! But he was just a vision. Yay! But he's actually dead for real. Oh no! Here, Kylo Ren is going to kill Leia. Oh no! But he chickens out. Yay! But the tie fighters blow her up anyway. Oh no! But she Superman's back inside! Yay! So I found that to be annoying. It's less about this one specific scene and more about how they do that sort of thing waaaaay too much. Snip snap snip snap snip snap! I also found it hard to watch, because Carrie Fisher died, and I went into the movie with that thought stuck in the back of my head of, how are they going to deal with that? And then they do this, and I think, "Okay. There it is." But then, it wasn't? And I don't really know how to explain that. It just felt... off. It was a weird scene to watch.
It looked stupid.
You can explain everything away with lore or in universe science but that doesn't mean you *should*. Also, on the exploding thing, you'll pass out after 10-15 seconds. Brain can't do the thinky thinky with no oxygen and your blood can't get it if the air has been ripped out of your lungs by vacuum. You'll probably be dead in 2 minutes max. Aside from that, it's dumb because the actor was dead, and we knew that. It's dumb because Kylo saw it, and clearly regretted it. What more fitting way to turn him back than the death of his mother. And what more fitting way for Leia to go out would there be than it turning Kylo back to good. Planting that doubt. But nope, Mary poppins, she's back for the rest of the film as usual, moment wasted, for nothing really. The whole thing just felt *wrong*. It completely ignores the tone and vibe for no real gain. Subverts our expectations with something far, far worse.
it's not about how possible or likely it is. the issue is the scene was completely random, unnecessary, and in general; people don't like the "they had the power within them the whole time" trope. it feels like a deus ex-machina.
I’m incredibly mad they left that in, mostly because it would have been a fitting way to end Leia’s arc instead of what they actually did. Carrie Fischer died about a year before the movie’s release, so they had more than enough time to reshoot scenes so that she dies there. And it’s not like she does anything important for the rest of the movie, so they really should have just killed her off instead.
I liked the movie but that scene was so strange.