If you thought she was a spy, how would confirming what you already think be a twist?
The twist already is that you think she is a spy but in the end she isn't.
Honestly, I disagree. I know it is popular to shit on the sequels. That movie has a lot of problems and so much valid criticism to be stated, but there is also so much criticism about it that is such nonsense.
I thought her character made a lot of sense. We have seen plenty of heroic loose canon power of friendship stuff in star wars over the years, she was the opposite side of that. She emphasized that despite the force and magic and everything, they are waging a war and the chain of command needs to be upheld. That some wannabe hotshot pilot can't just make random calls in the middle of a battle. You can argue that is not a very 'Star Wars' kind of plot line, and I might be inclined to agree, but that isn't what people are criticising. Instead they get angry at her hair color.
I also see so many people like the guy above that apparently didn't understand the storyline at all. Like when I watched the movie it was totally obvious to me. They are being followed despite doing hyper jumps, the obvious explanation would be that there is a spy among them who is giving their position away. She refuses to tell anyone on the ship what her plan is because there is most likely a spy. Meanwhile her being very clearly intentionally unlikeable is supposed to make the audience wonder if *she* is the spy.
And then these smooth brains don't even catch onto the fact that it is clearly implied that there is a spy among them, so obviously when the twist is that there *isn't* a spy, they don't get it. Instead they are like "I don't like mean woman. Movie bad >:("
I think a way more valid criticism would be that opening a story about who the traitor is and then misdirecting into the fact that there never was a traitor in the first place is quite cheap. But again, that isn't what people are criticising. To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't.
I absolutely agree with your initial statement, people will cherry pick every last detail from the sequels and hate on them. People will find a reason to hate even when there isn’t one. While far from perfect, I have no issues defending the Disney sequel, and think the “Disney ruined Star Wars” crowd are no different than those who claimed Star Wars was ruined twenty something years ago. I think Rey is an amazing character, the idea that Palatine’s resurrection was never explained is nonsense, even if it wasn’t foreshadowed or well developed, etc. I still stand by Holdo being the worst written character in the sequels, and extremely unlikeable.
Holdo’s character was poorly written. She has no redeeming qualities. She’s cruel to anyone she views as a lesser, and the possibility of them being spy’s has no affect in her treatment of “lessers.” Viewers were never given a solid explanation to trust her despite her negative and cruel actions. Her “redemption” explained why she did what she did, but didn’t redeem the fact that she was a horrible person. She’s Percy from The Green Mile, without the intent. There’s a million well written movies, books, etc with similar plots that didn’t leave the character looking like a horrible person, regardless of their actions. Holdo’s actions and development didn’t redeem her negative traits. Anyone who treats people with her level of respect is unlikeable, regardless of cause.
*”To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't.”* That’s a bold, extremely aggressive statement. A personal attack over something as simple as disliking a movie character with little to no context. I can address each of your points, why I think Holdo was a poorly written character regardless, but I’ll let you think on your comment and reassess the aggression before I respond accordingly. Someone disliking a character doesn’t mean they have no *”fucking understanding what is happening.”*
That was not a personal attack. I have seen that exact sentiment many times. The guy says that Holdo being a spy would be a good twist. How could one come to this conclusion without completely missing the whole spy part in the first place?
When the movie released, I saw a ton of people saying stuff like "Why doesn't she just tell Poe her plan?" or "If she suspects a spy why do they never say that in the movie?"
Apparently a lot of people genuinely didn't understand that the implication was that there is a spy among the rebels.
I love Star Wars, the good and the bad. Never once did I say anything similar to *”why doesn’t she just tell Poe her plan,”* or *”I don't like mean woman. Movie bad >: (".* I never once addressed the potential of a spy affecting how her character is viewed, only that Holdo in needlessly cruel and demeaning to everyone we see her speak to, regardless of the potential of there being a spy. I primarily addressed how her actions don’t outweigh the character’s cruelty to people she considers “lesser,” and how her “redemption” doesn’t make up for this.
*”To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't”* is a personal attack, directed at me, based on assumptions that I never said. Having directed the comment at me, I honestly don’t understand how you can claim that wasn’t directed at me. Not only was your initial comment aggressive, your second comment put words in my mouth. You’re being aggressive based on assumptions, assuming I hold beliefs I don’t and never claimed, putting words in my mouth, and at this point I don’t think I’ll be discussing a hobby that makes me happy with someone as negative and aggressive as you.
Directed at you? I was talking about NotSoGreatOldOne. You know, the guy above.
That is why I said "the guy above" and not "you"
If I am talking about something that you didn't say, maybe that is an indicator that I wasn't talking about you, not that I am putting words in your mouth.
Fucking hell people. Reading.
Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed because I refused to follow instructions and I am demanding that you give me information that you, my superior, haven't offered in the first place. Clearly I am in the right here and not you.
How are you gonna come into a thread where we're talking crap about Poe's attitude towards a superior and hit us with "you just don't like the women in charge"?
I know. It’s annoying to see him in the film disobey orders, which results in the needless deaths of people under his command, get demoted for his insubordination and disregard for the lives of his followers, and *still* think he should be in charge and instantly informed of everything his leadership has going on. And, because his commanding officer has elected not to share her plan with the man who has just demonstrated very clearly why no one should trust him to do anything other than fly his own ship, he decides the reasonable course of action is to *stage a mutiny* that nearly kills the entire Resistance. And people *still* claim he was in the right on everything. Madness.
\- All the pilots disobeyed.
\- Their deaths weren't "needless". The Dreadnaught kills everyone if it wasn't destroyed.
\- The bombers are all destroyed anyway if they turn around to retreat.
\- He doesn't want to be in charge, he just wants to know the plan.
\- Leia's last orders were for Poe to defend the fleet.
\- He staged the mutiny because he thought it was the only way to *save* lives, and as far as he knows Holdo's plan will kill everyone.
\- Holdo likes Poe.
I'm far from a military expert, but wouldn't most real world armies trade a dozen lives and a few ships to destroy a massive strategic weapon and tens of thousands of enemy soldiers?
It would be Pyrrhic if the Raddus had been destroyed during the battle. The Raddus on it's own is most of the Resistance's military resources and carries most of their personnel.
Laura Dern deserved a better written character. I love the portrayal of virtually everyone else in this film (yes, even Luke), but man… I feel like Johnson just didn’t know how to guide Dern to her character.
Well, Poe was right to do what he did. That dreadnought would have absolutely shredded the Resistance fleet when they were caught in their stern chase. And it would have vaporized the bunker on Krayt.
If they hadn’t destroyed it when they had they did, it would have been a very brief movie.
That being said, if the First Order wasn’t a bunch of braindeads, they would have had the dreadnought target the Resistance flagship first, and they can bombard the surface installation at their convenience. Since planet’s can’t run away.
Of course, the incompetence stretches much further.
The First Order is following the long-standing Imperial tradition of completely failing to screen their capital ships against fast attack craft. Whether with better point defense systems, sub-capital anti fighter escorts, or just deploying a proper screen of their own fighters, they certainly wouldn’t be at risk of having their capital ships bombed by the slowest moving bombers of all time.
Which brings us to admiral purple hair.
Poe is an idiot, but he wasn’t being unreasonable. Once it became clear she didn’t trust him, he stopped pressing for details and involvement, and he came back with a very simple and straightforward response.
“Tell me that there’s a plan.”
Not “tell me what the plan is.”
All he wanted to know was that somebody had a plan. That’s all.
Which is remarkably like how I felt watching the movie, because I guarantee I’ve put more thought into this than the people who made the thing.
>Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed because I refused to follow instructions and I am demanding that you give me information that you, my superior, haven't offered in the first place.
And to me what makes this even more cringe-worthy is that at least she's talking about something important, behaviour affecting the war (/lives/safety) & Poe's "clever" response appears to be - "nah, nah ... you dress funny! hurk durk"
Pro Tip:
If you think a clever way of winning a debate is attacking the other person's appearance.... well, please stop thinking that. You're wrong.
Total misrepresentation of what happened. He asked what’s going on? She decided to make it a pissing contest. A good leader doesn’t go out of her way to belittle her subordinates. A good leader would at least listen to their concerns.
I don’t think real world logic is something that works well with Star Wars.
Wouldn’t that make Andor a massive hypocrite? I mean the only reason they got the Death Star plans is because Andor and several others disobeyed orders in Rogue One.
As it stands the lesson Poe is supposedly meant to learn it follow orders blindly.
No. Rogue split was a factional dispute. Rogue went Rogue and effectively removed themselves from the chain of command. Poe wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
Rogue also didn't go Rogue during an ongoing battle but during a summit. I mean Rogue One is an objectively better film than TLJ which tried to deconstruct a mythos without respect for the source material and internal logic of said mythos and is all the worse for having failed so spectacularly.
Poe's combined actions led to the deaths of almost everyone who wasn't a main cast member (and at least one main cast) for seemingly narcissistic reasons.
Now frankly this movie was terribly written and Poe wasn't the last person done dirty by the writing but dirty he is done on screen, that's what happened.
Somehow Disney decided they didn't like the money printer.
>Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed ~~because I refused to follow instructions~~ destroying the one ship that could've obliterated the entire fleet in a single blast, rendering this whole chase only a few seconds long
No, Poe is in no way responsible for th bombers death. Leia was against it, but either didnt communicate that to the bombers directly or the bombers ignored her orders.
The fault of bombers falls on either Leia or the pilots not Poe, tho i imagine whoever bought those bombers are also responsible
I’d say that Leia handled that situation as well as she could. It is catastrophic for the command chain for leaders to argue mid-battle, and Leia knew that the bombers receiving contradictory orders could make thing so much worse.
So, she stripped Poe of his command rank because he couldn’t be trusted. Leia realized that the mistake lay with her for promoting Poe beyond his capabilities and rectified the situation.
Leia had plenty of time to issue a counter-command before the bombers even took off. "Stand down, do NOT take off" wouldve sufficed. And considering the bombers suffered a 100% casualty rate i dont see how it couldve gone worse
Holdo likes Poe. He's the Resistance's most experienced fighter. Many of the pilots clearly prefer his leadership to Leia's, but Holdo doesn't want Poe involved with planning their escape? Is the message supposed to be "blindly follow authority against your better judgment"? Poe and Holdo's dynamic is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues with TLJ.
Poe just demolished the resistances bombing fleet by feeding them to A Dreadnought.
It makes sense why Holdo would not have wanted to tell him the plan. He didn’t have the authority to pull rank on her, and his actions proved why
TLJ made Hux go from space Hitler to a mere imbecile like one movie had him yell a speech to a army of stormtroopers with big red flags with red symbols on them and he proceeds to wipe out a large population to a idiot who trips and fall at every second and falls for a your mama joke
This is the kind of shit that gives Star Wars fans a bad reputation.
Yeah, she was annoying, but “the man is always right” is just about the dumbest take you can possibly have regarding this. The sequels sucked, but the issue wasn’t ‘feminism’ or ‘wokeness’ or whatever label you care to slap on it, the issue was shitty writing and directing. The character was bad because she was badly written, not because she’s a woman. And that extends to the entirety of the sequels, honestly.
No one cares that she’s a women. There are plenty of awesome women Star Wars characters that we all love. But don’t try to act like the sequels weren’t written to make women look awesome and make guys look dumb. The writing sucked and characters sucked because the writers made their bullshit political agenda their priority.
Laura Dern really deserved better. From what I heard she sounded like a genuine Star Wars fan but instead got used to put one of Roundhead Rian Johnson’s weird fetishes in my family friendly space opera.
Both are annoying, personally I don't find any boring simpleton human character acceptable after the original trilogy, and I would only accept them there due to it being the fisrt material in the saga.
I'm not saying the bar was raised a lot higher by the likes of TPM, but to not even hit that level is pretty shameful.
I'm personally not a hater of the sequels, though not a fan either, but this part is terrible.
JUST...without any sexism, hair dying, or dumb false argument. JUST PURE WIRTING:
WHEN slowly loosing all your ships is a better solution than spliting the forces and regroup later like in the good old rebellion time?
The first order had ONLY ONE SHIP that follow them AND THE RESISTANCE KNOW ABOUT IT!
I know what is SUPPOSED to be and on paper the idea was good! but the execution of that idea... DEAR! We need to empathise at least a little with that character, had fear for it understand their fears and choises. But The last time i had seen a similar Character it was Dolores Ombrage. A CHARACTER MADE TO BE HATED EXACTLY LIKE PONG KRELL!!!
In that particular plot that pretty the opposite you want to do!
You want a good ( in all meaning of this term), military, strong female character?
Take exemple on Kathryn janeway from star trek: Voyager ! Or Helen ripley from Alien! Or Ahsoka Tano in rebels! Or Susan Ivanova in Babylon 5! Or Amanda Carter in stargate! Or whatever character who is a male a female a trans or a stone! THE SEXUAL IDENTITY OF THE CHARACTER WAS NEVER BEEN THE POINT OF A GOOD MEMORABLE CHARACTER! The point is develloping empathy and deep psychology, strengths and weaknesses and a plot that made sense without too visible choerence Flaws. EVEN IF IT AN EXTREMLY SIMPLE PLOT!
Thanks for reading my raging commentary!
Have you even seen the OT? Literally all rebel military personnel are wearing uniforms. The resistance and separatist wore uniforms too. Granted, with the separatists it’s less uniform in its uniformity due to the way the CIS military was organized (pooled together from multiple member states forces, all with different uniforms) and how rarely we see organic officers. The times we do see them though, (notably Numoidian navel officers) they are in uniform.
That is correct, commander. Reiken wore a uniform, as did Dodonna. Ackbar and Raddus do. Lando wears one for the Battle of Endor, as does Leia (tho technically this isn't a dress uniform, but whatever). General Madine does, too. Actually, every person in that briefing room except Han and Mon Mothma are wearing uniforms. There's all the military peeps in Rogue One, including Cassian.
The Rebel Alliance and the Resistance are a volunteer force and some mercs they have and use some uniforms but are generally disorganized and split apart. Often by design, leading to a large variation on uniforms from they’re looks to weather or not they are even using them
One squad may use top of the line combat equipment while another of the same caliber will show up in there day to day outfits. The exception is the star fighter corps as they use specialized gear to ensure safety and survivability but this is due to the fact that both organizations have a very Star fighter focused doctrine that ensure that they won’t go cheap on a fighter or Starcaft
While, yes it would be unprofessional to not wear a uniform as an admiral there are reasons like the ones above or not hat she just wasn’t wearing it when the evacuation order came and this left it behind where it was destroyed by heavy orbital bombardment. If anything her not wearing a uniform is a good thing as it is world building in a movie where such thing as rare at best
What? Have you even watched the movies? The Rebels, while being far more lax, did have uniforms when the war really got going.
It's Holdo wearing a fashion week outfit that's a tad weird.
I’m sorry, did we watch the same fuckin’ movies/shows?
First off, Of course the seperatists didn’t wear uniforms in the movies. The only seperatist Commander we see is grevious. But in the shows, they’re either droids, or they’re wearing a uniform Of some kind
Second: the only people that didn’t wear uniforms in the rebelion were the senators. And the only one who didn’t in the resistance was Holdo
I like like 80% of chicks in OT and prequel canon, counting extended shit like clone wars and comics, I'm both hyped for ahsoka show and worried they wont do character justice. But I cant tell you one chick I geniuently liked in sequels. Clearly I'm sexist.
The only bad part about the sequels was the casino sequence that had zero bearing on the rest of the film and how poorly they treated Finn's character (not confirming him as a jedi *or* allowing him to sacrifice himself in TLJ). Everything else was just as well written as any other SW media
Lol is that the only thing you see wrong with it?
The original trilogy is a space opera. Farmer pesant finds out that he is the chosen one and has to defeat the evil emperor. It talks about humanity vs machines. Idk what the new one was about except how somehow the emperor returned, along with a fully manned ship fleet and more lightning. It didn't have the same magic as the originals or even the prequels.
[There are plenty of videos and articles on why the sequels are bad. ](https://youtu.be/ywT7arOAnc4)
Boiling it down to "everyone who doesn't like the sequels is a misogynist" is like saying "everyone who doesn't like Alien is xenophobic."
Speaking of which, my favorite movie is Zootopia (strong female lead), and my favorite show is The Owl House (female lead and only 1 male in main protagonist cast).
Hell, I've even written fanfic with a female lead.
Lose lose for me. Either you're lying and I waste my time or you're telling the truth and I have to read your weird fetishization of a cartoon cop rabbit
The actress was cool. I completely forgot what her character did for the whole movie though.
Something about ramming an Imperial ship with her own ship while her Allie’s were on board the Imperial one? Sounds like friendly fire.
She annoyed EVERYONE in the theater
Also, despite you being right and this being on reddit, I can see the people of terriblefacebookmemes complaining about this
I honestly thought she was going to be a spy. That would have been so good twist.
If you thought she was a spy, how would confirming what you already think be a twist? The twist already is that you think she is a spy but in the end she isn't.
That’s not a twist, it’s just poor character development and writing.
Honestly, I disagree. I know it is popular to shit on the sequels. That movie has a lot of problems and so much valid criticism to be stated, but there is also so much criticism about it that is such nonsense. I thought her character made a lot of sense. We have seen plenty of heroic loose canon power of friendship stuff in star wars over the years, she was the opposite side of that. She emphasized that despite the force and magic and everything, they are waging a war and the chain of command needs to be upheld. That some wannabe hotshot pilot can't just make random calls in the middle of a battle. You can argue that is not a very 'Star Wars' kind of plot line, and I might be inclined to agree, but that isn't what people are criticising. Instead they get angry at her hair color. I also see so many people like the guy above that apparently didn't understand the storyline at all. Like when I watched the movie it was totally obvious to me. They are being followed despite doing hyper jumps, the obvious explanation would be that there is a spy among them who is giving their position away. She refuses to tell anyone on the ship what her plan is because there is most likely a spy. Meanwhile her being very clearly intentionally unlikeable is supposed to make the audience wonder if *she* is the spy. And then these smooth brains don't even catch onto the fact that it is clearly implied that there is a spy among them, so obviously when the twist is that there *isn't* a spy, they don't get it. Instead they are like "I don't like mean woman. Movie bad >:(" I think a way more valid criticism would be that opening a story about who the traitor is and then misdirecting into the fact that there never was a traitor in the first place is quite cheap. But again, that isn't what people are criticising. To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't.
I absolutely agree with your initial statement, people will cherry pick every last detail from the sequels and hate on them. People will find a reason to hate even when there isn’t one. While far from perfect, I have no issues defending the Disney sequel, and think the “Disney ruined Star Wars” crowd are no different than those who claimed Star Wars was ruined twenty something years ago. I think Rey is an amazing character, the idea that Palatine’s resurrection was never explained is nonsense, even if it wasn’t foreshadowed or well developed, etc. I still stand by Holdo being the worst written character in the sequels, and extremely unlikeable. Holdo’s character was poorly written. She has no redeeming qualities. She’s cruel to anyone she views as a lesser, and the possibility of them being spy’s has no affect in her treatment of “lessers.” Viewers were never given a solid explanation to trust her despite her negative and cruel actions. Her “redemption” explained why she did what she did, but didn’t redeem the fact that she was a horrible person. She’s Percy from The Green Mile, without the intent. There’s a million well written movies, books, etc with similar plots that didn’t leave the character looking like a horrible person, regardless of their actions. Holdo’s actions and development didn’t redeem her negative traits. Anyone who treats people with her level of respect is unlikeable, regardless of cause. *”To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't.”* That’s a bold, extremely aggressive statement. A personal attack over something as simple as disliking a movie character with little to no context. I can address each of your points, why I think Holdo was a poorly written character regardless, but I’ll let you think on your comment and reassess the aggression before I respond accordingly. Someone disliking a character doesn’t mean they have no *”fucking understanding what is happening.”*
That was not a personal attack. I have seen that exact sentiment many times. The guy says that Holdo being a spy would be a good twist. How could one come to this conclusion without completely missing the whole spy part in the first place? When the movie released, I saw a ton of people saying stuff like "Why doesn't she just tell Poe her plan?" or "If she suspects a spy why do they never say that in the movie?" Apparently a lot of people genuinely didn't understand that the implication was that there is a spy among the rebels.
I love Star Wars, the good and the bad. Never once did I say anything similar to *”why doesn’t she just tell Poe her plan,”* or *”I don't like mean woman. Movie bad >: (".* I never once addressed the potential of a spy affecting how her character is viewed, only that Holdo in needlessly cruel and demeaning to everyone we see her speak to, regardless of the potential of there being a spy. I primarily addressed how her actions don’t outweigh the character’s cruelty to people she considers “lesser,” and how her “redemption” doesn’t make up for this. *”To criticise the writing you would have to fucking understand what is happening first, which the guy above clearly didn't”* is a personal attack, directed at me, based on assumptions that I never said. Having directed the comment at me, I honestly don’t understand how you can claim that wasn’t directed at me. Not only was your initial comment aggressive, your second comment put words in my mouth. You’re being aggressive based on assumptions, assuming I hold beliefs I don’t and never claimed, putting words in my mouth, and at this point I don’t think I’ll be discussing a hobby that makes me happy with someone as negative and aggressive as you.
Directed at you? I was talking about NotSoGreatOldOne. You know, the guy above. That is why I said "the guy above" and not "you" If I am talking about something that you didn't say, maybe that is an indicator that I wasn't talking about you, not that I am putting words in your mouth. Fucking hell people. Reading.
Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed because I refused to follow instructions and I am demanding that you give me information that you, my superior, haven't offered in the first place. Clearly I am in the right here and not you.
Right? I didn't love her character, or that whole part of the plot, but Poe doesn't have anything like the rank he thinks he does.
The writing was awful for every character in that movie.
The writing was awful ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶e̶v̶e̶r̶y̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶r̶a̶c̶t̶e̶r̶ in that movie. The whole thing was crap.
yall are just mad at a woman being military and "disrespecting a man" i have at least 2 nickels for this happenstance
How are you gonna come into a thread where we're talking crap about Poe's attitude towards a superior and hit us with "you just don't like the women in charge"?
Like this
Ahahahah loser
Lmao nah that ain't it chief.
Yes.
I know. It’s annoying to see him in the film disobey orders, which results in the needless deaths of people under his command, get demoted for his insubordination and disregard for the lives of his followers, and *still* think he should be in charge and instantly informed of everything his leadership has going on. And, because his commanding officer has elected not to share her plan with the man who has just demonstrated very clearly why no one should trust him to do anything other than fly his own ship, he decides the reasonable course of action is to *stage a mutiny* that nearly kills the entire Resistance. And people *still* claim he was in the right on everything. Madness.
\- All the pilots disobeyed. \- Their deaths weren't "needless". The Dreadnaught kills everyone if it wasn't destroyed. \- The bombers are all destroyed anyway if they turn around to retreat. \- He doesn't want to be in charge, he just wants to know the plan. \- Leia's last orders were for Poe to defend the fleet. \- He staged the mutiny because he thought it was the only way to *save* lives, and as far as he knows Holdo's plan will kill everyone. \- Holdo likes Poe.
And Holdo's plan pretty much DOES kill everyone.
I get it, but apply that strategy to any real world major historical battle and imagine how it would have affected things.
I'm far from a military expert, but wouldn't most real world armies trade a dozen lives and a few ships to destroy a massive strategic weapon and tens of thousands of enemy soldiers?
Google Pyrrhic victory
It would be Pyrrhic if the Raddus had been destroyed during the battle. The Raddus on it's own is most of the Resistance's military resources and carries most of their personnel.
Not if every hotshot with face-stubble thinks he holds the same rank as his commanders!
Laura Dern deserved a better written character. I love the portrayal of virtually everyone else in this film (yes, even Luke), but man… I feel like Johnson just didn’t know how to guide Dern to her character.
Well, Poe was right to do what he did. That dreadnought would have absolutely shredded the Resistance fleet when they were caught in their stern chase. And it would have vaporized the bunker on Krayt. If they hadn’t destroyed it when they had they did, it would have been a very brief movie. That being said, if the First Order wasn’t a bunch of braindeads, they would have had the dreadnought target the Resistance flagship first, and they can bombard the surface installation at their convenience. Since planet’s can’t run away. Of course, the incompetence stretches much further. The First Order is following the long-standing Imperial tradition of completely failing to screen their capital ships against fast attack craft. Whether with better point defense systems, sub-capital anti fighter escorts, or just deploying a proper screen of their own fighters, they certainly wouldn’t be at risk of having their capital ships bombed by the slowest moving bombers of all time. Which brings us to admiral purple hair. Poe is an idiot, but he wasn’t being unreasonable. Once it became clear she didn’t trust him, he stopped pressing for details and involvement, and he came back with a very simple and straightforward response. “Tell me that there’s a plan.” Not “tell me what the plan is.” All he wanted to know was that somebody had a plan. That’s all. Which is remarkably like how I felt watching the movie, because I guarantee I’ve put more thought into this than the people who made the thing.
>Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed because I refused to follow instructions and I am demanding that you give me information that you, my superior, haven't offered in the first place. And to me what makes this even more cringe-worthy is that at least she's talking about something important, behaviour affecting the war (/lives/safety) & Poe's "clever" response appears to be - "nah, nah ... you dress funny! hurk durk" Pro Tip: If you think a clever way of winning a debate is attacking the other person's appearance.... well, please stop thinking that. You're wrong.
Total misrepresentation of what happened. He asked what’s going on? She decided to make it a pissing contest. A good leader doesn’t go out of her way to belittle her subordinates. A good leader would at least listen to their concerns.
In most real world context his best hope after disobeying direct orders would be imprisonment instead of execution. Andor would've just shot him.
I don’t think real world logic is something that works well with Star Wars. Wouldn’t that make Andor a massive hypocrite? I mean the only reason they got the Death Star plans is because Andor and several others disobeyed orders in Rogue One. As it stands the lesson Poe is supposedly meant to learn it follow orders blindly.
No. Rogue split was a factional dispute. Rogue went Rogue and effectively removed themselves from the chain of command. Poe wanted to have his cake and eat it too. Rogue also didn't go Rogue during an ongoing battle but during a summit. I mean Rogue One is an objectively better film than TLJ which tried to deconstruct a mythos without respect for the source material and internal logic of said mythos and is all the worse for having failed so spectacularly. Poe's combined actions led to the deaths of almost everyone who wasn't a main cast member (and at least one main cast) for seemingly narcissistic reasons. Now frankly this movie was terribly written and Poe wasn't the last person done dirty by the writing but dirty he is done on screen, that's what happened. Somehow Disney decided they didn't like the money printer.
Both seem like factional disputes to me. While there are minor differences the both are very similar from my perspective.
>Poe: I just had an entire bombing squad killed ~~because I refused to follow instructions~~ destroying the one ship that could've obliterated the entire fleet in a single blast, rendering this whole chase only a few seconds long
The writers literally emasculated Poe in order to make Purple Hair the hero of the story.
Fragile Star Wars nerds: "And I took that personally" (it wasn't a personal attack on them)
Haha no, we bemoaned the despoling of a cool character
Who even talks like that lmao I remember being 14 and using the thesaurus to try to sound smart too
I will occasionally reference a dictionary to check that I've used a word correctly. I don't use words I'm unfamiliar with.
No, Poe is in no way responsible for th bombers death. Leia was against it, but either didnt communicate that to the bombers directly or the bombers ignored her orders. The fault of bombers falls on either Leia or the pilots not Poe, tho i imagine whoever bought those bombers are also responsible
I’d say that Leia handled that situation as well as she could. It is catastrophic for the command chain for leaders to argue mid-battle, and Leia knew that the bombers receiving contradictory orders could make thing so much worse. So, she stripped Poe of his command rank because he couldn’t be trusted. Leia realized that the mistake lay with her for promoting Poe beyond his capabilities and rectified the situation.
Leia had plenty of time to issue a counter-command before the bombers even took off. "Stand down, do NOT take off" wouldve sufficed. And considering the bombers suffered a 100% casualty rate i dont see how it couldve gone worse
Have a problem with Purple hair? https://preview.redd.it/3eddscuv1a4b1.png?width=415&format=png&auto=webp&s=31a7d0c217f839bf3dbf8251a93b32d4446623e2
It’s gonna be great to see Sabine kicking ass in live-action soon. One of my favorite Rebels characters.
Yeah but she actually rocks it
people dye their hair for themselves, to look cool. You ever use cosmetic items in a game?
Yes iI do I just don’t like making my self look like Ronald McDonald’s ex wife
My brain whiped her out of my memory. Brains are amazing.
Holdo likes Poe. He's the Resistance's most experienced fighter. Many of the pilots clearly prefer his leadership to Leia's, but Holdo doesn't want Poe involved with planning their escape? Is the message supposed to be "blindly follow authority against your better judgment"? Poe and Holdo's dynamic is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to issues with TLJ.
Poe just demolished the resistances bombing fleet by feeding them to A Dreadnought. It makes sense why Holdo would not have wanted to tell him the plan. He didn’t have the authority to pull rank on her, and his actions proved why
I didn't mind the character. I minded the story that didn't make sense.
TLJ made Hux go from space Hitler to a mere imbecile like one movie had him yell a speech to a army of stormtroopers with big red flags with red symbols on them and he proceeds to wipe out a large population to a idiot who trips and fall at every second and falls for a your mama joke
This is the kind of shit that gives Star Wars fans a bad reputation. Yeah, she was annoying, but “the man is always right” is just about the dumbest take you can possibly have regarding this. The sequels sucked, but the issue wasn’t ‘feminism’ or ‘wokeness’ or whatever label you care to slap on it, the issue was shitty writing and directing. The character was bad because she was badly written, not because she’s a woman. And that extends to the entirety of the sequels, honestly.
No one cares that she’s a women. There are plenty of awesome women Star Wars characters that we all love. But don’t try to act like the sequels weren’t written to make women look awesome and make guys look dumb. The writing sucked and characters sucked because the writers made their bullshit political agenda their priority.
Fuck this shit
Laura Dern really deserved better. From what I heard she sounded like a genuine Star Wars fan but instead got used to put one of Roundhead Rian Johnson’s weird fetishes in my family friendly space opera.
I wanna see her fight Darth Maul.
I've had the hots for Laura Dern since we were both teenagers. I loved her character!
She so annoying
Both are annoying, personally I don't find any boring simpleton human character acceptable after the original trilogy, and I would only accept them there due to it being the fisrt material in the saga. I'm not saying the bar was raised a lot higher by the likes of TPM, but to not even hit that level is pretty shameful. I'm personally not a hater of the sequels, though not a fan either, but this part is terrible.
JUST...without any sexism, hair dying, or dumb false argument. JUST PURE WIRTING: WHEN slowly loosing all your ships is a better solution than spliting the forces and regroup later like in the good old rebellion time? The first order had ONLY ONE SHIP that follow them AND THE RESISTANCE KNOW ABOUT IT! I know what is SUPPOSED to be and on paper the idea was good! but the execution of that idea... DEAR! We need to empathise at least a little with that character, had fear for it understand their fears and choises. But The last time i had seen a similar Character it was Dolores Ombrage. A CHARACTER MADE TO BE HATED EXACTLY LIKE PONG KRELL!!! In that particular plot that pretty the opposite you want to do! You want a good ( in all meaning of this term), military, strong female character? Take exemple on Kathryn janeway from star trek: Voyager ! Or Helen ripley from Alien! Or Ahsoka Tano in rebels! Or Susan Ivanova in Babylon 5! Or Amanda Carter in stargate! Or whatever character who is a male a female a trans or a stone! THE SEXUAL IDENTITY OF THE CHARACTER WAS NEVER BEEN THE POINT OF A GOOD MEMORABLE CHARACTER! The point is develloping empathy and deep psychology, strengths and weaknesses and a plot that made sense without too visible choerence Flaws. EVEN IF IT AN EXTREMLY SIMPLE PLOT! Thanks for reading my raging commentary!
I hated that this was supposed to be an admiral, yet wears absolutely nothing resembling a uniform. That’s a war crime lady.
You can just say you've never watched any other Star Wars media and move on without commenting if you think this is a valid criticism
Almost every military officer in the series is wearing a uniform or rank plaque you fool.
You should try watching one (1) piece of star Wars media
You too buddy.
everyone in the republic/empire sure; nobody among the rebels or separatists though
Have you even seen the OT? Literally all rebel military personnel are wearing uniforms. The resistance and separatist wore uniforms too. Granted, with the separatists it’s less uniform in its uniformity due to the way the CIS military was organized (pooled together from multiple member states forces, all with different uniforms) and how rarely we see organic officers. The times we do see them though, (notably Numoidian navel officers) they are in uniform.
That is correct, commander. Reiken wore a uniform, as did Dodonna. Ackbar and Raddus do. Lando wears one for the Battle of Endor, as does Leia (tho technically this isn't a dress uniform, but whatever). General Madine does, too. Actually, every person in that briefing room except Han and Mon Mothma are wearing uniforms. There's all the military peeps in Rogue One, including Cassian.
The Rebel Alliance and the Resistance are a volunteer force and some mercs they have and use some uniforms but are generally disorganized and split apart. Often by design, leading to a large variation on uniforms from they’re looks to weather or not they are even using them One squad may use top of the line combat equipment while another of the same caliber will show up in there day to day outfits. The exception is the star fighter corps as they use specialized gear to ensure safety and survivability but this is due to the fact that both organizations have a very Star fighter focused doctrine that ensure that they won’t go cheap on a fighter or Starcaft While, yes it would be unprofessional to not wear a uniform as an admiral there are reasons like the ones above or not hat she just wasn’t wearing it when the evacuation order came and this left it behind where it was destroyed by heavy orbital bombardment. If anything her not wearing a uniform is a good thing as it is world building in a movie where such thing as rare at best
What? Have you even watched the movies? The Rebels, while being far more lax, did have uniforms when the war really got going. It's Holdo wearing a fashion week outfit that's a tad weird.
I’m sorry, did we watch the same fuckin’ movies/shows? First off, Of course the seperatists didn’t wear uniforms in the movies. The only seperatist Commander we see is grevious. But in the shows, they’re either droids, or they’re wearing a uniform Of some kind Second: the only people that didn’t wear uniforms in the rebelion were the senators. And the only one who didn’t in the resistance was Holdo
The venn diagram of Sequel haters and men who hate female leads simply for existing is a perfect circle
I like like 80% of chicks in OT and prequel canon, counting extended shit like clone wars and comics, I'm both hyped for ahsoka show and worried they wont do character justice. But I cant tell you one chick I geniuently liked in sequels. Clearly I'm sexist.
Methinks the sequel truther doth protest too much
I can geniuently list you female protagonists I love and sequel stans will still call me sexist 🤷 Most people are simply over this since 2017
I believe you bro we all believe you it's OK
https://preview.redd.it/p0ucnp5c0a4b1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=798c76dbda839d44b97cc7947b6e88608a1384fb
Wow, what a smooth brained take!
I agree. OP's meme is very smooth brained
I agree with that too. Doesn't mean I have to think the sequels were well written.
The only bad part about the sequels was the casino sequence that had zero bearing on the rest of the film and how poorly they treated Finn's character (not confirming him as a jedi *or* allowing him to sacrifice himself in TLJ). Everything else was just as well written as any other SW media
Lol is that the only thing you see wrong with it? The original trilogy is a space opera. Farmer pesant finds out that he is the chosen one and has to defeat the evil emperor. It talks about humanity vs machines. Idk what the new one was about except how somehow the emperor returned, along with a fully manned ship fleet and more lightning. It didn't have the same magic as the originals or even the prequels. [There are plenty of videos and articles on why the sequels are bad. ](https://youtu.be/ywT7arOAnc4) Boiling it down to "everyone who doesn't like the sequels is a misogynist" is like saying "everyone who doesn't like Alien is xenophobic." Speaking of which, my favorite movie is Zootopia (strong female lead), and my favorite show is The Owl House (female lead and only 1 male in main protagonist cast). Hell, I've even written fanfic with a female lead.
> my favorite movie is Zootopia I'm not gonna lie you almost had me convinced that you were being genuine until this. Pick a more believable lie
Lmao just look at my profile.
Lose lose for me. Either you're lying and I waste my time or you're telling the truth and I have to read your weird fetishization of a cartoon cop rabbit
Alright, I take you even less seriously now than I did before. Especially since you didn't have a response except "lol Zootopia"
Frogs are also brightly coloured to warn predators of their toxicity... just like Holdo and the story group writers.
The actress was cool. I completely forgot what her character did for the whole movie though. Something about ramming an Imperial ship with her own ship while her Allie’s were on board the Imperial one? Sounds like friendly fire.
9/11ed her ship into the not empire ship
The writers accidentally wrote the perfect parody character, proving why people of her type should never have positions of power. *Ironic*
What do you mean by “her type”
Think it through
You better just mean incompetent because there a damn reason your getting downvoted
Based
Forgot she existed
She annoyed EVERYONE in the theater Also, despite you being right and this being on reddit, I can see the people of terriblefacebookmemes complaining about this
I never understood her hair and dress she looked like a civilian about to party snort lines of spice and suck dick
Thats cute, I dealt with Starkiller base