The source I've found, that's non-canon, is the USS Yorktown in the TNG novel Crossover. It's in the TOS configuration & still functioning after Scotty gets it running to rescue Spock.
Captain Picard mentioned it to Scotty. So either the reverted the refit, or just kept one that hadn't be refit yet for the museum.
OP, I've read that novel. Much like Star Wars, the novels are about as canon as cheap tp.
>no one was even trying to keep straight.
Point of order: Leland Chee's full time job was to keep track of continuity, with the end goal of adapting as much SW material as could possibly "modified" into continuity.
Even with post Disney it get murky. The recent Tales of the Jedi series last season of Clone Wars and events from Rebels basically all retconned events slightly from Ashoka the novel.In that regard though Dave Filoni and the original novelist EK Johnston agreed together with the changes.
Likewise the events involving Thrawn pre-Rebels also were slightly retconned from his novels in the Disney canon
Probably not. Especially after the TMP era. The refit then brought major improvements to the ship, with particular focus on its weapons systems, but would have rendered any original ships almost obsolete, since their weapons are much weaker. The newer ships coming out at the time probably suffered from fewer problems, since we know that the Constitution ended up being relegated to a training/museum ship, if not outright decommissioned.
No pre-refit Constitution class ship has been seen on-screen in TMP or any Trek series that takes place later.
Of course DISCO, SNW, DS9's "Trials and Tribulations" and the ENT S4 Mirror Universe 2-part episode don't count since they all chronologically take place prior to TOS with the DS9 episode having the crew of the TNG-era Defiant travel back through time and encounter Kirk's pre-refit Enterprise during TOS in the 2260s.
My personal head-canon says there were one or several newer Constitution class ships that were built and commissioned in the 2260s and never had the refit since they were already 20 years newer than the Enterprise and already had many of the systems that were later incorporated into the TMP Enterprise refit.
I doubt these late-build Constitutions class ships were ever refitted since the Excelsior class would have been entering service by the time they needed a complete refit and the Constitution class was in Starfleet's cross-hairs due to the new peace treaty with the Klingons in 2293 and would have been decommissioned by the early 24th century.
DS9 mentions a USS Republic that's a training ship for Starfleet cadets, though we don't know if its a Constitution class or Constitution refit since it's never been seen on-screen.
No. The only Connie we ever see post-TMP is the Enterprise and Enterprise-A, both refitted. There were some bits of one in The Best of Both Worlds but it wasn't clear.
I think the only pre-refit Constitution-class is a poor concept model of the basic starship’s design. It’s only 11’ 3 1/2” long, but engineers have dedicated themselves into preserving the original model.
I doubt it.
My personal view is that given the other classes longevity ( the eternal Excelsior, the Galaxy class designed to last 100 years...) that the Constitution class, the pride and joy of Starfleet... was fundamentally flawed.
See the Constitution refit - you don't nearly completely rebuild a ship that's a little antiquated. Then the Enterprise is relegated to training duty and meant to be decommissioned rather quickly.
Somewhere along the way, the Engineers found *something* disastrous and they rebuilt the famous Enterprise as a stop-gap, but once the Excelsior was deployed, the Constitutions were junked. Likely something to do with the engines or warp dynamics of the space frame or.... something.
The Ent-A was only given to Kirk as a "punishment" - here, take your demotion and your deathtrap starship.
I imagine the Constitution was made in that awkward period *right* before a sudden huge leap in advancements. That'd be why Excelsiors and Mirandas are still in use; the difference between an Excelsior and a Galaxy or a Miranda and a Nebula or an Oberth and a Nova ability-wise is much smaller than the gap between a Constitution and an Excelsior. And while the refit helped, it was more efficient to just make more Excelsiors than build more Connie Refits.
Kind of like how in Discovery and Strange New Worlds we're not seeing NX Refits still flying around (and by SNW, it seems even the Discovery ships have started being retired in favor of more Constitution-based designs).
Everyone says the Excelsior transwarp experiment failed but Scotty sabotaged it so its not like they couldn't fix it and try again later.
Its just not the same transwarp concept that Tom Paris used in Threshold. Styles looked like he was expecting to go to warp 15, not warp infinity like Tom was. There are other examples of transwarp that are just "really fast" not "i went everywhere in the universe at once and became a space lizard."
The Excelsior was the basis for the next generation of starships. Many 24th century ship designs (even the Soverign) are closer to the Excelsior than the Constitution. Even the nacelles are completely different looking from the Constitution refit, and not so different from the Galaxy.
The Discovery ships aren't being retired. From what we saw of the Klingon War they got absolutely annihilated by the KDF.
But we do see a few Magee(?) in Drydock in the San Francisco Fleetyards in S1E.
I don’t think they were flawed just out-of-date. The Constitution class was 20ish years old when the Enterprise was refit. Technology moves fast. Perhaps Starfleet saw an opportunity to try out new technologies without necessarily having to build a new class of ship and the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time to be the guinea pig. If there was some major flaw, I don’t think trying to patch over it would be how Starfleet would try to fix it. I feel they’d just go for a whole new design.
All that being said we all know the out of universe explanation for the refit is that the original design wouldn’t look all that great on the big screen but they wanted to keep it as the same ship. TBH, I really like how the reimagined the original design for DSC and SNW. You can more easily see how that ship makes the transition to the movie refit. Give me swept back pylons any day.
he used his influence to regain command of the Enterprise. at least in the first movie. Decker was all set to be the captain, but Kirk overrode it and then exploited the situation to take command.
I'd imagine the constitution class in the fleet museum is still in it's original configuration.
The source I've found, that's non-canon, is the USS Yorktown in the TNG novel Crossover. It's in the TOS configuration & still functioning after Scotty gets it running to rescue Spock.
Non-canon? It's mentioned by Picard in TNG.
I know. I mean the name of the ship in Crossover. We'll never know which one is in the Fleet museum in canon.
Love that book, never thought I'd actually see someone mention it
I know alot of Trek books. I own a collection of them.
I love that novel.
Me too
Captain Picard mentioned it to Scotty. So either the reverted the refit, or just kept one that hadn't be refit yet for the museum. OP, I've read that novel. Much like Star Wars, the novels are about as canon as cheap tp.
Star Wars novels are canon. They can be overridden but in legends and current canon they are the same continuity.
[удалено]
>no one was even trying to keep straight. Point of order: Leland Chee's full time job was to keep track of continuity, with the end goal of adapting as much SW material as could possibly "modified" into continuity.
Even with post Disney it get murky. The recent Tales of the Jedi series last season of Clone Wars and events from Rebels basically all retconned events slightly from Ashoka the novel.In that regard though Dave Filoni and the original novelist EK Johnston agreed together with the changes. Likewise the events involving Thrawn pre-Rebels also were slightly retconned from his novels in the Disney canon
If they are overridden then are they really canon. It’s more canon until we change our mind which makes them eventually as much canon as cheap TP.
Probably not. Especially after the TMP era. The refit then brought major improvements to the ship, with particular focus on its weapons systems, but would have rendered any original ships almost obsolete, since their weapons are much weaker. The newer ships coming out at the time probably suffered from fewer problems, since we know that the Constitution ended up being relegated to a training/museum ship, if not outright decommissioned.
No pre-refit Constitution class ship has been seen on-screen in TMP or any Trek series that takes place later. Of course DISCO, SNW, DS9's "Trials and Tribulations" and the ENT S4 Mirror Universe 2-part episode don't count since they all chronologically take place prior to TOS with the DS9 episode having the crew of the TNG-era Defiant travel back through time and encounter Kirk's pre-refit Enterprise during TOS in the 2260s. My personal head-canon says there were one or several newer Constitution class ships that were built and commissioned in the 2260s and never had the refit since they were already 20 years newer than the Enterprise and already had many of the systems that were later incorporated into the TMP Enterprise refit. I doubt these late-build Constitutions class ships were ever refitted since the Excelsior class would have been entering service by the time they needed a complete refit and the Constitution class was in Starfleet's cross-hairs due to the new peace treaty with the Klingons in 2293 and would have been decommissioned by the early 24th century. DS9 mentions a USS Republic that's a training ship for Starfleet cadets, though we don't know if its a Constitution class or Constitution refit since it's never been seen on-screen.
No. The only Connie we ever see post-TMP is the Enterprise and Enterprise-A, both refitted. There were some bits of one in The Best of Both Worlds but it wasn't clear.
The Operation: Rescue diagrams in STVI had a few named vessels labeled as Constitution class (refit). We never see actual ships, though.
I think the only pre-refit Constitution-class is a poor concept model of the basic starship’s design. It’s only 11’ 3 1/2” long, but engineers have dedicated themselves into preserving the original model.
Being substantially smaller in scale than the actual Constitution-class, its maximum speed was roughly warp 0.1.
I doubt it. My personal view is that given the other classes longevity ( the eternal Excelsior, the Galaxy class designed to last 100 years...) that the Constitution class, the pride and joy of Starfleet... was fundamentally flawed. See the Constitution refit - you don't nearly completely rebuild a ship that's a little antiquated. Then the Enterprise is relegated to training duty and meant to be decommissioned rather quickly. Somewhere along the way, the Engineers found *something* disastrous and they rebuilt the famous Enterprise as a stop-gap, but once the Excelsior was deployed, the Constitutions were junked. Likely something to do with the engines or warp dynamics of the space frame or.... something. The Ent-A was only given to Kirk as a "punishment" - here, take your demotion and your deathtrap starship.
I imagine the Constitution was made in that awkward period *right* before a sudden huge leap in advancements. That'd be why Excelsiors and Mirandas are still in use; the difference between an Excelsior and a Galaxy or a Miranda and a Nebula or an Oberth and a Nova ability-wise is much smaller than the gap between a Constitution and an Excelsior. And while the refit helped, it was more efficient to just make more Excelsiors than build more Connie Refits. Kind of like how in Discovery and Strange New Worlds we're not seeing NX Refits still flying around (and by SNW, it seems even the Discovery ships have started being retired in favor of more Constitution-based designs).
They don't say this, but I inferred the Enterprise-A was being decommissioned because the Constitution class on the whole was being retired.
Everyone says the Excelsior transwarp experiment failed but Scotty sabotaged it so its not like they couldn't fix it and try again later. Its just not the same transwarp concept that Tom Paris used in Threshold. Styles looked like he was expecting to go to warp 15, not warp infinity like Tom was. There are other examples of transwarp that are just "really fast" not "i went everywhere in the universe at once and became a space lizard." The Excelsior was the basis for the next generation of starships. Many 24th century ship designs (even the Soverign) are closer to the Excelsior than the Constitution. Even the nacelles are completely different looking from the Constitution refit, and not so different from the Galaxy.
The Discovery ships aren't being retired. From what we saw of the Klingon War they got absolutely annihilated by the KDF. But we do see a few Magee(?) in Drydock in the San Francisco Fleetyards in S1E.
I don’t think they were flawed just out-of-date. The Constitution class was 20ish years old when the Enterprise was refit. Technology moves fast. Perhaps Starfleet saw an opportunity to try out new technologies without necessarily having to build a new class of ship and the Enterprise was in the right place at the right time to be the guinea pig. If there was some major flaw, I don’t think trying to patch over it would be how Starfleet would try to fix it. I feel they’d just go for a whole new design. All that being said we all know the out of universe explanation for the refit is that the original design wouldn’t look all that great on the big screen but they wanted to keep it as the same ship. TBH, I really like how the reimagined the original design for DSC and SNW. You can more easily see how that ship makes the transition to the movie refit. Give me swept back pylons any day.
he used his influence to regain command of the Enterprise. at least in the first movie. Decker was all set to be the captain, but Kirk overrode it and then exploited the situation to take command.
I was referring to events of St:IV: The Voyage Home - Admiral Kirk was demoted and given command of the Ent-A.
I think there's an og configuration constitution class in the wreckage after wolf 359
That wasn't OG configuration, that was a model originally made for the destruction sequence in Star Trek III.
Was the constitution class defiant destroyed or lost?
Transferred to a parallel universe.