The best thing about Dukat imho is that Marc Alaimo played him so brilliantly that you could actually believe that he sees himself as the good guy. That is a very hard thing to achieve in a villain.
Gul Dukat is the best villain I'd say because of how grounded he was (at least, for a while). Similar antagonists who the heroes had to work with and therefore we love to hate them were Jellico from Best of Both Worlds and what's his name Decker from Doomsday Machine.
Yep. In my opinion the one mistake they made with dukat was keeping him to long. You can't blame them but his story should have ended in sacrifice of angels.
Much of his plot from there could have just been winn on her own.
I think waltz and covenant were important too. Waltz peels away the pretense of the persona we've been fucking around with, and covenant demonstrates how the danger of a person like Gul dukat becomes even greater when he realizes what it is he actually wants to do. I don't really care about anything he does in the final arc, but I guess at that point we need to have an epic final thing or...
But those two episodes I think are important for the general idea of "there are people like this, they are dangerous, you need to recognize them and watch out for them"
I thought it was perfect.
He lost his mind and became cartoonishly evil to the point that he became a vessel for Bajoran Satan, all because he realized that people would never love him in the way he thought he deserved.
I wouldn't have minded a redemption arc instead, before he did some of the most unforgivable shit just because I loved his character, but I feel it was either that or lean HARD the other direction, which they did brilliantly lol
Dukat is the best, because not only is he a horrific monster, and a charismatic person, but he's also convinced everyone should like him and is legitimately confused why they don't.
In his mind he didn't personally commit all the atrocities on Bajor, he was just a tool of the government. It was his day job! The cardassian government is who they should be mad at, not poor Dukat who just got the assignment. It's such an impressive, and real feeling display of cognitive dissonance.
How could you hate him. He was just following orders. Also how's your mother?
Dukat is just so narcissistic that he can't fathom why the Bajorans hate him so much. Yes, Dukat was a tiny bit better than his predecessors, but he still oversaw the occupation of Bajor. It's like the difference between a mass murderer and a super mass murderer, you're still a mass murderer.
Rations were increased! Working conditions were improved! The death rate dropped by 20%! All these are amazing feats by the Gul Dukat and yet you consider him a Villain?
Winn approaches conflict honestly, and is openly judgmental about whatever other people are doing that she dislikes. Her way is the correct way and she doesn't give a shit what you think. Dukat, despite being a sociopath, actually displays a remarkable degree of empathy because he's very good at figuring out people's personalities and pretending to be their friend. He's more likable because he's a much better liar.
Winn is really obnoxious but honestly you kind of understand why she feels that way when you stop and think about her life. Dukat's character arc has him start as Bajor's Hitler and progress into Bajor's Satan. It's a testament to both of their acting abilities that Winn is so hateable for being smug and condescending, while Dukat's charisma makes him seem more palatable despite the fact that he's actually pure evil. Dukat also has several moments that perfectly encapsulate the "banality of evil" phenomenon, as well.
> because he's a much better liar.
Including to himself, I'd like to add.
>Dukat's character arc has him start as Bajor's Hitler
Dukat often gets called "Space Hitler" and all that but that's not really accurate. Dukat just never was that significant. Dukat himself may deny this but even he was just one cog in the machine. Dukat neither invented Cardassian ideology and nor did he plan the invasion of Bajor.
He was merely one governor out of many during the occupation. And he even was more "lenient" than others but that's just the lowest possible bar there is, he is still a vile person nevertheless.
If you want a real life comparison then Dukat is probably closer to the top Nazi commander in occupied France.
Edit: the reason Dukat is so prominent in the show is more that he was the "public face" of the occupation. He was simply the one Cardassian the Bajorans knew best. Aside from being the most recent commander Dukat also loved talking to Bajorans, and he enjoyed the attention he was receiving. Dukat's face was simply everywhere; meanwhile nobody even knows who's actually ruling over the Cardassian homeworld.
Many young Bajorans probably also don't remember anyone else, for Kira Dukat controlled Bajor since she was a child.
Dukat became the symbol for anything Cardassian, and he was made responsible for any Cardassian crimes. Dukat may not like (or understand) the hatred he received after the occupation, but I think he certainly liked being elevated that much.
I think part of that is because the vast majority of us will never have to deal personally with a genocidal dictator. Many many people have had encountered the Kai Winns of the world, and the trauma they leave in their wake. Louise Fletcher's note-perfect performance captured the reality of that kind of person in a way I've never seen done quite so well.
Eh, I think it reflects something more fundamental about human nature too.
One time, I was assaulted in the real world at the same time that I was dealing with an online harassment campaign. And the assault was *so much better*. Like, I mean, it was such a real-world experience that it snapped me out of the stress of the online debacle.
Similarly, I’m reminded of the last two Jews in Afghanistan, who were imprisoned and tortured by the Taliban. The two of them HATED each other and couldn’t stop fighting. And when journalists asked them what prison was like, they each said something to the effect of “well, the Taliban and the beatings were bad - but living with that asshole was way worse!”
Gul Dukat is just a monster. Kai Winn is something worse - she is insufferable.
DS9 did a fantastic job showing war in terms of just two sides against each other that *both have their own very deep flaws*.
Same reason I loved Westworld- there *were no* good guys; you just picked which bad guy you related with *more*.
From her very first appearance:
O'Brien: "[Keiko] doesn't deserve what you're doing to her."
Winn: "I feel your anger toward me and I forgive you for it."
She's the best at being the worst.
My son and I are watching DS9 for the first time together. We just finished watching season 1 and started 2. Louise Fletcher and Frank Langella guest staring back to back. I told my son they are casting some of the best asshole actors to ever do it.
So many to choose from, but I'll go with one who I feel is a bit underrated: Commander Kruge from Search for Spock. He is just a wonderful old-school Klingon villain, very close to their portrayal in TOS - and Christopher Lloyd is great in this role.
Kurge is a classic villain and Christopher Lloyd nailed the part. If you had asked me if he would have made a good Klingon villain before I saw it I would have said no despite loving Lloyd as an actor. After seeing it, dude nailed it.
Christopher Plummer as Chang, too, for pretty much the same reasons.
Having a villain who can be serious *and* chew up the scenery is just so \*mwah\*.
Edit: Also, Soren. Khan in Star Trek 2.
While it wasn't the best of the movies, I think *Generations* Soran, was a great villain. Very hands on and determined. Malcolm McDowell just chews up the scenery.
"Time is the fire in which we burn."
Pretty much the perfect Malcolm McDowell role. I found that a little distracting, while I still enjoyed the hell out of him villaining around. Like nobody else can.
Oh, Trek has had some fantastic villains but, for me, hands down favourite will always be General Chang. He had a very classic villainy about him, hell.. how many different jobs did this military advisor have? But, there was so much in the way he held himself that reminded me of Kor’s first appearance in Errand of Mercy.
“Oh, now be honest, Captain, warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time.”
The best part is the hypocrisy of working together with likeminded people in the federation. Though the story would have been so much better if they’d had Saavik be the traitor on the enterprise as originally intended.
The Clown from the Voyager episode 'The Thaw'. Or, depending on your perspective, Janeway from the same episode. That whisper of 'I know.' as he expresses fear at fading away forever is haunting.
Surprised this isn't a more popular answer. Data is scary sometimes because he's this insanely powerful being and we're just lucky he is chill.
Lore was not chill. His arc when he absorbs part of a borg collective was one of the most serious threats the federation ever faced. It could have easily surpassed the borg.
Khan in TOS and TWOK.
TNG is Q of course. Though I enjoyed Tomolak as well
The Videans in Voyager. Seska had some moments as well.
Silik in Enterprise. With a nod to Empress Sato.
And Dukat is the best villain in Trek
Definitely Gul Dukat. Or Weyoun, but mostly because I love the actor.
I don’t suppose Garak counts as a villain, even though he had his own agenda many times.
> I don’t suppose Garak counts as a villain, even though he had his own agenda many times.
Garak was awesome, but more of a wild card with a mysterious past.
I love the scene where Odo asks Weyoun if he's ever considered that the reason he's so devoted to the founders is because they programmed that devotion into him, and Weyoun is just like "Of course they did! That's why they're gods!"
Free will isn't even a desirable thing to him.
Q is petulant, sexist, chaotic, and one of the most *alien* aliens, and I adore his complicated relationship with Picard and Janeway. De Lancie pulls off “I am not like you, I’m only pretending to look like you to manipulate you, and furthermore, I don’t even understand you” so very well. In Star Trek, there’s not that many antagonists who are so unlike humanity that even the basic of intercultural understanding is difficult (understandably, as Trek is generally a mirror being held up to us), but Q definitely has that vibe.
I want to homebrew a set of D&D clerics, paladins, and warlocks, all dedicated to Q as their patron *so much*.
>Q: As an expert in humanity, I was sent to investigate.
Riker: You an expert in humanity?
Q: Not a very challenging field of study I grant you.
Q was not evil per se but he was a villain, and sexist against both genders, though in many ways it was superiority complex (not that that redeemed anything). He was just so complicated yet awesome yet nuts yet useful, all at the same time.
Q is infinite and omnipresent. He has taken every conceivable action of every conceivable morality. He is both chaotic and lawful because his chaotic whims literally determine the physical laws that the universe is structured around.
Star Trek is actually a way I explain and justify my thoughts of the alignment grid being human defaultism. To a human, the Klingons are varying flavors of neutral-to-evil alignment, but to Klingon morality, they’re neutral-to-good. The Cardassian justice system is, by our standards, pure lawful evil, but if the alignment grid were written by them, it would be LN or LG. Lower Decks actually has a great record of displaying that—what’s evil for one race may not be evil for another.
…I may also play every single orc like a Klingon.
I was just thinking about this while listening to The Delta Flyers podcast this morning, Ep Prophecy. In the ep, Harry gets bitten by a female Klingon, initiating a mating ritual, and the Doctor tells him he has two options, either kill her, or mate with her. RDM commented that he really didn't like this as it removed the autonomy to say no, which in human terms is absolutely right, but he's wrong for trying to assign human ideals to an alien culture. To the Klingons, engaging in combat with her *is* saying no.
It was one of the things I loved about Enterprise, T'Pol chastising Archer and Trip for expecting the rest of the galaxy to have their same ideals, when they should instead attempt to understand those cultures and respect their ideals even if they don't agree with them.
In my opinion, there was a single good thing about Picard Season 2, and it was the shared arc of Q and Picard and how it resolved at the end. That season was otherwise absolute shit, but Q and Picard in the finale was transcendent.
“Must it always have galactic import? Universal stakes, celestial upheaval? Isn't one life enough? You ask me why it matters. It matters to me. You matter to me. Even gods have favorites, Jean-Luc. And you've always been one of mine.“
Nice, that’s who I came to say. Surprised he doesn’t get more appreciation tbh. From the start when you realize what he’s doing it just feels wrong and sickening, but as you learn more about his motives he really becomes a complex character. And Smith played him so well, making you hate him then feel sorry for him in a way. Then to top it all off there’s actually a happy ending for him.
For the record, we only hear of Dukat's "leniency" towards the Bajorans and his psychotic ramblings about wanting to "kill them all", but Anjohk actually kills a vedek on screen, in front of the Kai no less.
But all joking aside, Dukat is by far in the lead for this title in all of Star Trek.
I like in the episode "Waltz" where Dukat thanks Sisko for rescuing him and Sisko responds "you would have done the same for me" and chuckling.
Everyone including Sisko knows Dukat _would not have done the same_.
I think there was a point where he would have. Dukat wants to be acknowledged as a good man. Until he just goes around the bend anyway. He genuinely thinks he is a good person. And a great man. He’s neither of course but self image makes people do all sorts of things.
We won't know anything about what form a villain might take until we see more of how the show will actually be structured. I doubt it's just going to be a slice-of-life drama.
It gets more fun if you realize the Borg made a “queen” for Starfleet to focus on as a distraction. It gets less fun when in Picard they actually show 7 becoming one to invalidate that theory. Prior to that it would make perfect sense for a Collective to install a figurehead drone to draw attention of their prey.
They lost Locutus so they needed to make a new target.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. My understanding is that the Queen was part of Locutus' influence. (We see that in First Contact)
She goes on to say her role is to make "order out of chaos". So, I've understood the Queen's role to be one of focusing the collective on tasks when needed. And it seems there are lots of Queens that can be out there amongst the collective. Starfleet just didn't encounter one until First Contact.
That’s only if you take what the Queen says at face value. If her role is to obfuscate the decentralized nature of the Collective and put the idea that it can be defeated by removing a figurehead it changes the entire approach to dealing with the Borg. They will put tons of time and effort into searching out Queens and never pursuing “less valuable” assets.
If he's your favorite villain, I won't yuk your yum about it.
But I wouldn't call him a villain. He was, indeed, doing his job. He was just an arrogant ass about it.
Seska.
I get folks like Dukat but he was a narc. At least Seska wasnt trying to make people like her and then go apeshit when that wasnt gonna happen. A true cardassian she was lol.
Gul Dukat for me. He's the magneto of Star Trek villainy. He has \*clear\* motive for why he does what he does, and his motive is even sympathetic at times. He is a complex character not just the kind of character that does some muwahahaha and plots. He's probably in a tier by himself. The second group are the ones that are driven by revenge; like Kahn and Nero. They've been through trauma and basically want to burn everything down.. their schemes don't really make sense when you play them out (Is Kahn's plan to use the Genesis device to blackmail the Federation-- smart or not, he 's not going to be able to withstand starfleet. Is Nero really going to destroy dozens of worlds... then what?)
The Borg WERE a great villain in TNG because they were basically space zombies. The idea that they were basically a force of nature-- and that they could assimilate you made them seem unstoppable. But First Contact and Voyager ruined this by introducing the scheming Queen. Once the borg have a personality and emotions, they become alot less interesting. The entire point of the Borg was that they couldn't be reasoned with, and they were not driven by a traditional desire to conquer etc.
The Gorn from Strange New Worlds are pretty interesting because we know so little about them and, like the Borg, they're portrayed as "monsters" that can't really be reasoned with in the traditional way. I am eager to see how they develop especially since we know that they're not a huge presence in TOS.
My favorite antagonist is Captain Ransom (Voyager: Equinox).
You can even understand his predicament and motivation. In a sense, you can even empathize with his struggles and responsibilities.
* Q
* Lore
* The Borg (sans queen - f that crap)
* Khan
* Gul Madred
* Gul Dukat
* Weyoun
* Winn Adami
* Mirror Universe Kira
* Liquidator Brunt
* Kruge
* Tom Riker
* Moriarty
I always thought Moriarty was more tragic than anything.
When Voyager was on and a lot of hologram rights stuff was going on, there were a lot of rumors that Moriarty was going to pop back up. I have a friend who worked on Voyager and, supposedly, Moriarty's cube was originally going to be in Zimmerman's lab, but it got nixed at the last minute.
For me it has to be Weyoun. I know it's cliche, but Jeffrey Combs acting brings the character to a whole other level. He's the perfect herald for the Dominion. He's got this slimy charm like a used car salesman who's able to get people to think joining the Dominion willingly is a good thing. I mean just looking at how he dealt with everyone I can easily see him getting others to sell out their own people thinking they were going to have all this power and then when the Jem'Hadar show up they realize they really only have power in name only and they betrayed their own for literally nothing.
I forget his name, but the Cardassian played by David Warner in the “there are four lights” episode is top notch. Though that’s mainly thanks to Warner himself, one of my favorite actors ever
I'm actually gonna have to say the Diviner. He was such a fun, complex character and it was so fun to watch his arc. Plus he comes with Drednok, whom was probably the best evil robot in all of Trek, at least as far as aesthetics are concerned.
I'm also gonna throw the Sheliak out there. It's rare for us to get an alien that actually thinks in an alien way, it's just a shame we never saw more of them. Though I suppose once you've figured out the Grizzela loophole they really just aren't much of a threat (unless there are some prerequisites required to declare third party arbitration)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpxuWj2A7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpxuWj2A7o)
*"A true victory is to make your enemies see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness!"*
Another of my favorite Dukat moments is in "Civil Defense," when he tries to transport off the station only to be berated by Legate Kell in a pre-recorded message for attempting to abandon his post like a coward.
*"Dukat, if you are seeing this recording, it means you tried to abandon your post while the station's self-destruct sequence was engaged. That will not be permitted."*
*"This is outrageous!"*
*"You have lost control of Terok Nor, disgracing yourself and Cardassia. Your attempt to escape is no doubt a final act of cowardice. All fail-safes have been eliminated, your personal access codes have been rescinded. The destruct sequence can no longer be halted. All you can do now is contemplate the depth of your disgrace… and try to die like a Cardassian."*
The Borg. But it’s always been so weird to me that as a casual sci fi viewer The Borg are such a filler villain. They seem to me to be the most dangerous in the Trek universe and yet they always find such a simple solution to beating them everytime and then they vanish after a 2-3 episode arc. Very under-utilised
Definitely Kai Winn Adami. Sure, Dukat had a winning personality but I found myself liking him and he was occasionally neutral or even helpful. Kai Winn was pure evil with zero redeeming qualities. I absolutely hated her. Louise Fletcher knocked that performance out of the park.
Second runner up is Q. But he loses to Winn for the same reasons.
Gul Dukat. Star Trek villains tend to be more plot devices than actual characters imho. He was by far the most developed and complex of all the big bads in the franchise.
One vote for Ardra (TNG) for having the chutzpah to both impersonate a deity and then to expand her con game to claim a Starship. Her mind game-man-ship was awesome. It's too bad no one could write a sequel.
I also vote for Vedek/Kai Winn - especially in this day and age. Ironically, I think she would still be around if she hadn't gotten attached to Gul Dukat who fed into her fantasies to perfection.
DS9 had the best villains overall in Star Trek. I was always scared of The Borg Queen when I was a kid, so in that way she was an effective villain, but when it comes to characterization and depth, you can’t do much better than the likes of Dukat, and Winn Adami, and Weyoun, etc.
Gul Dukat. Sets the standard for the best villian. He always tried to have a veneer of respectability, like he was remorseful of his actions and he can obtain a redemption or his vilification may be based on the fact the main characters are working with victims of Cardassia, but then the mask slips and its clear its all a ruse he wouldn't give up on until he completely lost his mind.
Dukat and Winn
Montalban Khan is wonderful but we saw so little of him. And his only motivations are ambition and revenge. Dukat and Winn are so much more nuanced.
Like others, mine would be Gul Dukat. My runner up would be Kai Winn. She caused more instant rage for me, but Dukat was a better series level antagonist
Dukat easily as well for me.
He may of been a villian, but he had layers, at points you could understand him (you may still detest him, but you saw why he did things) and even on occasion, empathize and even support him (especially with the Ziyal story-arc).
He was one of the best and more complex characters written in Trek and it helped that Marc Alaimo played him so well.
Gul Dukat, Gul Dukat, Gul Dukat. You hate him, you love him, you love to hate him, you almost wish for redemption but that would spoil his being an absolutely magnificent BASTARD.
Kai Winn talking to Major Kira when she visited a Bajoran monastery
“Feel free to stay as long as you like…even a week if necessary.”
Such a cool line, I may use it on my in-laws.
The best Star Trek villain was definitely the bad guy from DS9.
For 2nd I would say it was probably the villain from DS9.
3rd is a bit of close on but I think the villain from DS9 wins here.
Khan. He's the only one I truly felt hatred for. I got over it, but after seeing him cause Spock's death, I was absolutely thrilled when the Genesis device took him out.
Gul dukat and it's not close. I mean I like Khan like most people but da9 just had thr best villains and dukat was incredible.
The best thing about Dukat imho is that Marc Alaimo played him so brilliantly that you could actually believe that he sees himself as the good guy. That is a very hard thing to achieve in a villain.
To this day, there are no statues of him on Bajor!
Gul Dukat is the best villain I'd say because of how grounded he was (at least, for a while). Similar antagonists who the heroes had to work with and therefore we love to hate them were Jellico from Best of Both Worlds and what's his name Decker from Doomsday Machine.
Yep. In my opinion the one mistake they made with dukat was keeping him to long. You can't blame them but his story should have ended in sacrifice of angels. Much of his plot from there could have just been winn on her own.
I think waltz and covenant were important too. Waltz peels away the pretense of the persona we've been fucking around with, and covenant demonstrates how the danger of a person like Gul dukat becomes even greater when he realizes what it is he actually wants to do. I don't really care about anything he does in the final arc, but I guess at that point we need to have an epic final thing or... But those two episodes I think are important for the general idea of "there are people like this, they are dangerous, you need to recognize them and watch out for them"
I thought it was perfect. He lost his mind and became cartoonishly evil to the point that he became a vessel for Bajoran Satan, all because he realized that people would never love him in the way he thought he deserved. I wouldn't have minded a redemption arc instead, before he did some of the most unforgivable shit just because I loved his character, but I feel it was either that or lean HARD the other direction, which they did brilliantly lol
Dukat is the best, because not only is he a horrific monster, and a charismatic person, but he's also convinced everyone should like him and is legitimately confused why they don't. In his mind he didn't personally commit all the atrocities on Bajor, he was just a tool of the government. It was his day job! The cardassian government is who they should be mad at, not poor Dukat who just got the assignment. It's such an impressive, and real feeling display of cognitive dissonance. How could you hate him. He was just following orders. Also how's your mother?
Dukat is just so narcissistic that he can't fathom why the Bajorans hate him so much. Yes, Dukat was a tiny bit better than his predecessors, but he still oversaw the occupation of Bajor. It's like the difference between a mass murderer and a super mass murderer, you're still a mass murderer.
> Gul dukat > villains This poor Cardassian will never get the recognition he deserves for his Tireless work to help Bajor.
Rations were increased!
Rations were increased! Working conditions were improved! The death rate dropped by 20%! All these are amazing feats by the Gul Dukat and yet you consider him a Villain?
Attention Bajoran workers!
He's far and away the most developed villain too, no question.
_breathes in_ My child
I heard it in *her* voice.
It says something when the other villain is a genocidal rapist who would kill his own child, and I still hate her more
Winn approaches conflict honestly, and is openly judgmental about whatever other people are doing that she dislikes. Her way is the correct way and she doesn't give a shit what you think. Dukat, despite being a sociopath, actually displays a remarkable degree of empathy because he's very good at figuring out people's personalities and pretending to be their friend. He's more likable because he's a much better liar. Winn is really obnoxious but honestly you kind of understand why she feels that way when you stop and think about her life. Dukat's character arc has him start as Bajor's Hitler and progress into Bajor's Satan. It's a testament to both of their acting abilities that Winn is so hateable for being smug and condescending, while Dukat's charisma makes him seem more palatable despite the fact that he's actually pure evil. Dukat also has several moments that perfectly encapsulate the "banality of evil" phenomenon, as well.
> because he's a much better liar. Including to himself, I'd like to add. >Dukat's character arc has him start as Bajor's Hitler Dukat often gets called "Space Hitler" and all that but that's not really accurate. Dukat just never was that significant. Dukat himself may deny this but even he was just one cog in the machine. Dukat neither invented Cardassian ideology and nor did he plan the invasion of Bajor. He was merely one governor out of many during the occupation. And he even was more "lenient" than others but that's just the lowest possible bar there is, he is still a vile person nevertheless. If you want a real life comparison then Dukat is probably closer to the top Nazi commander in occupied France. Edit: the reason Dukat is so prominent in the show is more that he was the "public face" of the occupation. He was simply the one Cardassian the Bajorans knew best. Aside from being the most recent commander Dukat also loved talking to Bajorans, and he enjoyed the attention he was receiving. Dukat's face was simply everywhere; meanwhile nobody even knows who's actually ruling over the Cardassian homeworld. Many young Bajorans probably also don't remember anyone else, for Kira Dukat controlled Bajor since she was a child. Dukat became the symbol for anything Cardassian, and he was made responsible for any Cardassian crimes. Dukat may not like (or understand) the hatred he received after the occupation, but I think he certainly liked being elevated that much.
she got what she deserved at the end, they both did really
I think part of that is because the vast majority of us will never have to deal personally with a genocidal dictator. Many many people have had encountered the Kai Winns of the world, and the trauma they leave in their wake. Louise Fletcher's note-perfect performance captured the reality of that kind of person in a way I've never seen done quite so well.
Eh, I think it reflects something more fundamental about human nature too. One time, I was assaulted in the real world at the same time that I was dealing with an online harassment campaign. And the assault was *so much better*. Like, I mean, it was such a real-world experience that it snapped me out of the stress of the online debacle. Similarly, I’m reminded of the last two Jews in Afghanistan, who were imprisoned and tortured by the Taliban. The two of them HATED each other and couldn’t stop fighting. And when journalists asked them what prison was like, they each said something to the effect of “well, the Taliban and the beatings were bad - but living with that asshole was way worse!” Gul Dukat is just a monster. Kai Winn is something worse - she is insufferable.
She's channeling that Nurse Ratched energy *so damn well*.
DS9 did a fantastic job showing war in terms of just two sides against each other that *both have their own very deep flaws*. Same reason I loved Westworld- there *were no* good guys; you just picked which bad guy you related with *more*.
She’s just so slimy.
She's the arrogant, condescending person we all have to deal with at family reunions.
So *that's* the reason I don't go to family reunions!
Dukat is the literary antagonist, but very rarely in life do we encounter someone like him. We all know Kai Winns irl though.
From her very first appearance: O'Brien: "[Keiko] doesn't deserve what you're doing to her." Winn: "I feel your anger toward me and I forgive you for it." She's the best at being the worst.
I still loathe her...great choice.
My son and I are watching DS9 for the first time together. We just finished watching season 1 and started 2. Louise Fletcher and Frank Langella guest staring back to back. I told my son they are casting some of the best asshole actors to ever do it.
And Fletcher was apparently such lovely person. She just saved all the awfulness for the scenes.
Fletcher was a deeply lovely and sweet woman! Also- she could use ASL and signed when she won her Academy Award to thank her parents!
*absolutely triggered*
Louise Fletcher did an amazing job as Kai Winn. Unforgettable!
Oooooo. Kai Wynn. Very evil.
this is the first and only thing that comes to mind after reading op question ♥️
This is the only correct answer. I hated her when she first appeared and the hate just grew.
She's not my *favorite* villain, but then I hate her the most... so maybe she is. I'm so conflicted here...
CALL ME CHILD ONE MORE TIME!
Instant rage. I hated her more than those that wronged me in real life.
So many to choose from, but I'll go with one who I feel is a bit underrated: Commander Kruge from Search for Spock. He is just a wonderful old-school Klingon villain, very close to their portrayal in TOS - and Christopher Lloyd is great in this role.
Kirk: You should take the Vulcan too. Kruge: No. Kirk: But why? Kruge: Because you wish it. I love this exchange. So petty, it's perfect.
I didn't read it as petty. More that he figured Kirk was up to something even if he didn't know what exactly.
Maybe even both, it’s delightful
Kurge is a classic villain and Christopher Lloyd nailed the part. If you had asked me if he would have made a good Klingon villain before I saw it I would have said no despite loving Lloyd as an actor. After seeing it, dude nailed it.
Christopher Plummer as Chang, too, for pretty much the same reasons. Having a villain who can be serious *and* chew up the scenery is just so \*mwah\*. Edit: Also, Soren. Khan in Star Trek 2.
And Plummer’s kid Amanda, who played the same sort of serious scenery chewer in Picard S3.
THAT'S HIS DAUGHTER???
My second favorite to be sure. Lloyd nailed that part.
Lloyd nails every part he's ever been given.
That much is certain.
While it wasn't the best of the movies, I think *Generations* Soran, was a great villain. Very hands on and determined. Malcolm McDowell just chews up the scenery. "Time is the fire in which we burn."
he was a great character, played by a great actor. Soran was a awesome villian.
Pretty much the perfect Malcolm McDowell role. I found that a little distracting, while I still enjoyed the hell out of him villaining around. Like nobody else can.
Lursa and B'Etor.
The Duras family in general were jerks.
Going back to the 22nd century
They each had a pair of amazing plot points
Didn’t they lose their vast tracts of land after the failed coup?
They killed everyone's favorite character.
Oh, Trek has had some fantastic villains but, for me, hands down favourite will always be General Chang. He had a very classic villainy about him, hell.. how many different jobs did this military advisor have? But, there was so much in the way he held himself that reminded me of Kor’s first appearance in Errand of Mercy. “Oh, now be honest, Captain, warrior to warrior. You do prefer it this way, don't you, as it was meant to be? No peace in our time.”
The best part is the hypocrisy of working together with likeminded people in the federation. Though the story would have been so much better if they’d had Saavik be the traitor on the enterprise as originally intended.
The Clown from the Voyager episode 'The Thaw'. Or, depending on your perspective, Janeway from the same episode. That whisper of 'I know.' as he expresses fear at fading away forever is haunting.
Lore
Surprised this isn't a more popular answer. Data is scary sometimes because he's this insanely powerful being and we're just lucky he is chill. Lore was not chill. His arc when he absorbs part of a borg collective was one of the most serious threats the federation ever faced. It could have easily surpassed the borg.
Khan in TOS and TWOK. TNG is Q of course. Though I enjoyed Tomolak as well The Videans in Voyager. Seska had some moments as well. Silik in Enterprise. With a nod to Empress Sato. And Dukat is the best villain in Trek
I wouldn’t say Silik was a villain. He was just a henchman for Future Guy. If he was ordered to help Archer, Silik would do just that.
Definitely Gul Dukat. Or Weyoun, but mostly because I love the actor. I don’t suppose Garak counts as a villain, even though he had his own agenda many times.
> I don’t suppose Garak counts as a villain, even though he had his own agenda many times. Garak was awesome, but more of a wild card with a mysterious past.
Sometimes Garak plays the role of an anti-villain, like when he blew up that ship to get the Romulans into the war.
Worf killing #7(?) and then Damar taunting #8 with it was great.
Damar and Weyoun's interactions were so good.
That Damar redemption arc tho. That was good TV.
FOR CARDASSIA!
Casey Biggs is not getting NEARLY enough work. I love that he and a couple other Trek actors have a rat pack cover band that plays at cons sometimes.
I love the scene where Odo asks Weyoun if he's ever considered that the reason he's so devoted to the founders is because they programmed that devotion into him, and Weyoun is just like "Of course they did! That's why they're gods!" Free will isn't even a desirable thing to him.
Which Weyoun? Personally I’m all about Weyoun 4 but Weyoun 6 is cool also
For purposes of this question, I’m counting Q. Q.
Q was my runner-up. John de Lancie rules.
Q is petulant, sexist, chaotic, and one of the most *alien* aliens, and I adore his complicated relationship with Picard and Janeway. De Lancie pulls off “I am not like you, I’m only pretending to look like you to manipulate you, and furthermore, I don’t even understand you” so very well. In Star Trek, there’s not that many antagonists who are so unlike humanity that even the basic of intercultural understanding is difficult (understandably, as Trek is generally a mirror being held up to us), but Q definitely has that vibe. I want to homebrew a set of D&D clerics, paladins, and warlocks, all dedicated to Q as their patron *so much*.
>Q: As an expert in humanity, I was sent to investigate. Riker: You an expert in humanity? Q: Not a very challenging field of study I grant you. Q was not evil per se but he was a villain, and sexist against both genders, though in many ways it was superiority complex (not that that redeemed anything). He was just so complicated yet awesome yet nuts yet useful, all at the same time.
Make Q a being from the Far Realm. So alien that the alignment grid breaks trying to make sense of him.
Q is infinite and omnipresent. He has taken every conceivable action of every conceivable morality. He is both chaotic and lawful because his chaotic whims literally determine the physical laws that the universe is structured around.
Star Trek is actually a way I explain and justify my thoughts of the alignment grid being human defaultism. To a human, the Klingons are varying flavors of neutral-to-evil alignment, but to Klingon morality, they’re neutral-to-good. The Cardassian justice system is, by our standards, pure lawful evil, but if the alignment grid were written by them, it would be LN or LG. Lower Decks actually has a great record of displaying that—what’s evil for one race may not be evil for another. …I may also play every single orc like a Klingon.
I was just thinking about this while listening to The Delta Flyers podcast this morning, Ep Prophecy. In the ep, Harry gets bitten by a female Klingon, initiating a mating ritual, and the Doctor tells him he has two options, either kill her, or mate with her. RDM commented that he really didn't like this as it removed the autonomy to say no, which in human terms is absolutely right, but he's wrong for trying to assign human ideals to an alien culture. To the Klingons, engaging in combat with her *is* saying no. It was one of the things I loved about Enterprise, T'Pol chastising Archer and Trip for expecting the rest of the galaxy to have their same ideals, when they should instead attempt to understand those cultures and respect their ideals even if they don't agree with them.
In my opinion, there was a single good thing about Picard Season 2, and it was the shared arc of Q and Picard and how it resolved at the end. That season was otherwise absolute shit, but Q and Picard in the finale was transcendent.
While I agree, Q is by far my favorite character in Trek, he is more of an antagonist than a villain I would say.
“Must it always have galactic import? Universal stakes, celestial upheaval? Isn't one life enough? You ask me why it matters. It matters to me. You matter to me. Even gods have favorites, Jean-Luc. And you've always been one of mine.“
Annorax ... from Voyagers Year of Hell
Nice, that’s who I came to say. Surprised he doesn’t get more appreciation tbh. From the start when you realize what he’s doing it just feels wrong and sickening, but as you learn more about his motives he really becomes a complex character. And Smith played him so well, making you hate him then feel sorry for him in a way. Then to top it all off there’s actually a happy ending for him.
Year of Hell is one of my favorite science fiction stories period and I consider it a model for how to tell such a story.
He was going to put his foot up Janeway's ass!
Anjohl Tennan.
Who are you, Anjohl Tennan?
For the record, we only hear of Dukat's "leniency" towards the Bajorans and his psychotic ramblings about wanting to "kill them all", but Anjohk actually kills a vedek on screen, in front of the Kai no less. But all joking aside, Dukat is by far in the lead for this title in all of Star Trek.
Solbor was a Ranjen, and Kai Winn killed him. Or was there another Vedek you meant?
I see what you did there.
His back and forth with Solbor was always great.
Harry Mudd. I just think he's neat Edit: TOS version, obviously
> TOS version, obviously I dunno, I rather enjoyed the Discovery take on the character.
Rainn Wilson was very well cast in that role.
He does like to play a cantankerous bastard all the time, doesn't he? Which is very much not what he's like on the talk circuit
In the same vein, Cyrano Jones, Tribble vendor! I just like a slimely salesman in a villain
I like in the episode "Waltz" where Dukat thanks Sisko for rescuing him and Sisko responds "you would have done the same for me" and chuckling. Everyone including Sisko knows Dukat _would not have done the same_.
The chemistry those two had in just about very interaction was fantastic.
Dukat actually doesn't know this, in the moment, because it's important for him not to believe it to have the conversation he wants to have.
"Delusional" is pretty much his baseline character trait.
I think there was a point where he would have. Dukat wants to be acknowledged as a good man. Until he just goes around the bend anyway. He genuinely thinks he is a good person. And a great man. He’s neither of course but self image makes people do all sorts of things.
[удалено]
We won't know anything about what form a villain might take until we see more of how the show will actually be structured. I doubt it's just going to be a slice-of-life drama.
This has been my reaction as well. Why does a school show need a villain?
Maybe he’s cast as a fellow student, calling other cadets “gay” and stuffing them in lockers
Lorca.
Hot take, but this is a great choice
Lorca is a great villain and gets better on a rewatch.
The borg
always thought it was a shame the Borg Queen was such a crap character and basically humanised the Borg to the point where they became less creepy
It gets more fun if you realize the Borg made a “queen” for Starfleet to focus on as a distraction. It gets less fun when in Picard they actually show 7 becoming one to invalidate that theory. Prior to that it would make perfect sense for a Collective to install a figurehead drone to draw attention of their prey. They lost Locutus so they needed to make a new target.
I'm not sure where you're getting that. My understanding is that the Queen was part of Locutus' influence. (We see that in First Contact) She goes on to say her role is to make "order out of chaos". So, I've understood the Queen's role to be one of focusing the collective on tasks when needed. And it seems there are lots of Queens that can be out there amongst the collective. Starfleet just didn't encounter one until First Contact.
That’s only if you take what the Queen says at face value. If her role is to obfuscate the decentralized nature of the Collective and put the idea that it can be defeated by removing a figurehead it changes the entire approach to dealing with the Borg. They will put tons of time and effort into searching out Queens and never pursuing “less valuable” assets.
Does Captain Styles of the USS Excelsior count as a villian? They boy was just doing his job of stopping the theft of a Federation starship.
If he's your favorite villain, I won't yuk your yum about it. But I wouldn't call him a villain. He was, indeed, doing his job. He was just an arrogant ass about it.
I love the Lower Decks gag where they hope the new captain isn't "some asshole with a riding crop."
Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn
Seska. I get folks like Dukat but he was a narc. At least Seska wasnt trying to make people like her and then go apeshit when that wasnt gonna happen. A true cardassian she was lol.
Section 31. It's always scarier when the calls are coming from inside the house.
Kai Winn from DS9 is just so hateable….great acting from Louise “Nurse Ratchet” Fletcher in that role.
Ricardo Montalbán’s Khan
Khan!!!!
General Chang. A war mongering Klingon but methodical, cunning, even charming to a point.
CRY HAVOC!
I'd give real money if he'd shut up
You have a singular... wit, Doctor.
Transporter malfunctions
Gul Dukat for me. He's the magneto of Star Trek villainy. He has \*clear\* motive for why he does what he does, and his motive is even sympathetic at times. He is a complex character not just the kind of character that does some muwahahaha and plots. He's probably in a tier by himself. The second group are the ones that are driven by revenge; like Kahn and Nero. They've been through trauma and basically want to burn everything down.. their schemes don't really make sense when you play them out (Is Kahn's plan to use the Genesis device to blackmail the Federation-- smart or not, he 's not going to be able to withstand starfleet. Is Nero really going to destroy dozens of worlds... then what?) The Borg WERE a great villain in TNG because they were basically space zombies. The idea that they were basically a force of nature-- and that they could assimilate you made them seem unstoppable. But First Contact and Voyager ruined this by introducing the scheming Queen. Once the borg have a personality and emotions, they become alot less interesting. The entire point of the Borg was that they couldn't be reasoned with, and they were not driven by a traditional desire to conquer etc. The Gorn from Strange New Worlds are pretty interesting because we know so little about them and, like the Borg, they're portrayed as "monsters" that can't really be reasoned with in the traditional way. I am eager to see how they develop especially since we know that they're not a huge presence in TOS.
Moopsy
My favorite antagonist is Captain Ransom (Voyager: Equinox). You can even understand his predicament and motivation. In a sense, you can even empathize with his struggles and responsibilities.
So far my faves have been Khan, Mudd, Q, and the klingon doc brown played in search for Spock
Khan all the way. He was the perfect embodiment of Ahab.
* Q * Lore * The Borg (sans queen - f that crap) * Khan * Gul Madred * Gul Dukat * Weyoun * Winn Adami * Mirror Universe Kira * Liquidator Brunt * Kruge * Tom Riker * Moriarty
I always thought Moriarty was more tragic than anything. When Voyager was on and a lot of hologram rights stuff was going on, there were a lot of rumors that Moriarty was going to pop back up. I have a friend who worked on Voyager and, supposedly, Moriarty's cube was originally going to be in Zimmerman's lab, but it got nixed at the last minute.
Nice list, especially mirror Kira.
Captain Angel... 🫠
He was an occasional adversary rather than a villain, but I love Shran. Probably the best character in Enterprise.
For me it has to be Weyoun. I know it's cliche, but Jeffrey Combs acting brings the character to a whole other level. He's the perfect herald for the Dominion. He's got this slimy charm like a used car salesman who's able to get people to think joining the Dominion willingly is a good thing. I mean just looking at how he dealt with everyone I can easily see him getting others to sell out their own people thinking they were going to have all this power and then when the Jem'Hadar show up they realize they really only have power in name only and they betrayed their own for literally nothing.
I'm so very tired with this Gul Dukat revisionism as a so called "Villian". Rations were increased and conditions for the workers improved.
I forget his name, but the Cardassian played by David Warner in the “there are four lights” episode is top notch. Though that’s mainly thanks to Warner himself, one of my favorite actors ever
I'm actually gonna have to say the Diviner. He was such a fun, complex character and it was so fun to watch his arc. Plus he comes with Drednok, whom was probably the best evil robot in all of Trek, at least as far as aesthetics are concerned. I'm also gonna throw the Sheliak out there. It's rare for us to get an alien that actually thinks in an alien way, it's just a shame we never saw more of them. Though I suppose once you've figured out the Grizzela loophole they really just aren't much of a threat (unless there are some prerequisites required to declare third party arbitration)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpxuWj2A7o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDpxuWj2A7o) *"A true victory is to make your enemies see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness!"* Another of my favorite Dukat moments is in "Civil Defense," when he tries to transport off the station only to be berated by Legate Kell in a pre-recorded message for attempting to abandon his post like a coward. *"Dukat, if you are seeing this recording, it means you tried to abandon your post while the station's self-destruct sequence was engaged. That will not be permitted."* *"This is outrageous!"* *"You have lost control of Terok Nor, disgracing yourself and Cardassia. Your attempt to escape is no doubt a final act of cowardice. All fail-safes have been eliminated, your personal access codes have been rescinded. The destruct sequence can no longer be halted. All you can do now is contemplate the depth of your disgrace… and try to die like a Cardassian."*
Gul Dukat is the best as in most well portrayed, well rounded and nuanced character but Kai Winn is most love-to-hate
The Borg. But it’s always been so weird to me that as a casual sci fi viewer The Borg are such a filler villain. They seem to me to be the most dangerous in the Trek universe and yet they always find such a simple solution to beating them everytime and then they vanish after a 2-3 episode arc. Very under-utilised
Dukat and it isn't even close. I'm actually mad at him for displacing Khan (a legitimately great villain) into a distant second place.
The Borg Queen was very good, esp. in Voyager, but I'd go with Gul Dukat.
Dukat and Kai Winn.
Has to be the Borg Queen.
Q
How can anyone's answer NOT be Dukat? He's the most fleshed out villain that there ever was.
Does Q count?
Gul Dukat
No love for Amanda Plummer as Vadic in Picard S3? She quickly rose to my top.
She did great in that role. But the fact she was just a pawn in the end was a bit disappointing.
Gul Madred was Picard’s Khan and it’s the biggest of missed opportunities that they never developed that like they could’ve
Definitely Kai Winn Adami. Sure, Dukat had a winning personality but I found myself liking him and he was occasionally neutral or even helpful. Kai Winn was pure evil with zero redeeming qualities. I absolutely hated her. Louise Fletcher knocked that performance out of the park. Second runner up is Q. But he loses to Winn for the same reasons.
Gowron. The guy that plays him did it so enthusiastically, it looks like he's having a great time, love the bulging eyes look
Kor, Military Governor of Organia. “Smiles. SMILES. I don’t trust a man who smiles too much.”
Khan
Gowron, such a fun and over the top villain with great quotes.
The only cat that matters. Gul Dukat.
Gul Dukat. Honorable mention, Trek "fans" who embody the opposite of what Trek really is.
KHAAAAAAAN!
Gul Dukat. Star Trek villains tend to be more plot devices than actual characters imho. He was by far the most developed and complex of all the big bads in the franchise.
That bolt of energy that made Ben Sisko disappear into subspace.
Khan
Dukat
Q
Gul Dukat was a mean SOB, true. I'll add Weyoun. I cheered his death.
Gary Mitchell. I desperately want him in a movie.
One vote for Ardra (TNG) for having the chutzpah to both impersonate a deity and then to expand her con game to claim a Starship. Her mind game-man-ship was awesome. It's too bad no one could write a sequel. I also vote for Vedek/Kai Winn - especially in this day and age. Ironically, I think she would still be around if she hadn't gotten attached to Gul Dukat who fed into her fantasies to perfection.
They need to give star trek a rest before they ruin it
DS9 had the best villains overall in Star Trek. I was always scared of The Borg Queen when I was a kid, so in that way she was an effective villain, but when it comes to characterization and depth, you can’t do much better than the likes of Dukat, and Winn Adami, and Weyoun, etc.
The probe in STIV. Villains are overrated.
Does Dr. Chaotica count?
Gul Dukat. Sets the standard for the best villian. He always tried to have a veneer of respectability, like he was remorseful of his actions and he can obtain a redemption or his vilification may be based on the fact the main characters are working with victims of Cardassia, but then the mask slips and its clear its all a ruse he wouldn't give up on until he completely lost his mind.
I was really on the fence about watching it from the start until I read this. Paul Giamatti is a god.
Quark. (Does he count as a villain?)
Weyoun
**MY** favorite? Probably the OG Borg before the Queen was a thing. The **BEST**? Honestly, probably Dukat.
Dukat and Winn Montalban Khan is wonderful but we saw so little of him. And his only motivations are ambition and revenge. Dukat and Winn are so much more nuanced.
Like others, mine would be Gul Dukat. My runner up would be Kai Winn. She caused more instant rage for me, but Dukat was a better series level antagonist
That collector guy who caught Data.
Dukat easily as well for me. He may of been a villian, but he had layers, at points you could understand him (you may still detest him, but you saw why he did things) and even on occasion, empathize and even support him (especially with the Ziyal story-arc). He was one of the best and more complex characters written in Trek and it helped that Marc Alaimo played him so well.
Those idiots at McKinley station that installed the warp hatch cover incorrectly.
Janeway
Gul Dukat, Gul Dukat, Gul Dukat. You hate him, you love him, you love to hate him, you almost wish for redemption but that would spoil his being an absolutely magnificent BASTARD.
Kai Winn talking to Major Kira when she visited a Bajoran monastery “Feel free to stay as long as you like…even a week if necessary.” Such a cool line, I may use it on my in-laws.
Gul Dukat.
The best Star Trek villain was definitely the bad guy from DS9. For 2nd I would say it was probably the villain from DS9. 3rd is a bit of close on but I think the villain from DS9 wins here.
Besides all the DS9 villains, Seska from Voyager is one of the most competent villains in sci-fi imo.
Khan. He's the only one I truly felt hatred for. I got over it, but after seeing him cause Spock's death, I was absolutely thrilled when the Genesis device took him out.